A big thank you to all my religious friends
I just wanted to say a big thank you to all my religious friends here. I guess I have been wondering and asking myself whether I made the right choices for a while. You - know - could I be wrong? Is there really a god? Those sort of questions. Well, you have helped me to answer those questions, for which I thank you.
I used to be able to have some interesting discussions about beliefs here, but slowly more and more aggressive religious types have appeared, and spread their version of love.
The men who hate to see women choosing an abortion and post photos of dead babies. The ones who hide behind fake user names like "quietnessandtrust" and "underhiswings" and "onusonus" and "thetruthhurts" etc, etc, etc....
And even some muslimists who are shouting their particular hatred of free masons and bikinis or whatever it is they are scared of.
So - thank you all. I appreciate the fact that you are all honest enough to show the true meaning of religious "love" and "turning the other cheek." Sarcasm.
I am unlucky enough to be able to divine the intent behind the words - even through an electronic medium like this forum. And although you people have somehow managed to persuade yourselves that this is "love," you really need to ask yourselves why this "love" creates so much animosity and why there has been so much conflict around your beliefs.
Killing people for the government to "save" them? Really?
You love me so much you will shout me down, insist I am wrong and refuse to listen to what I have to say - because you already know the truth? Really?
Posting photographs of dead babies?
You do not need to be able to demonstrate any proof of your god other than your "rational" belief in the fact that this could be the only possible answer because you cannot imagine there not being a god? And this is love?
Ask yourselves how many times you are "attacked without provocation,"...... Yeah - happens a lot doesn't it?
That is because you are provoking an attack every time you tell some one that you have the "moral authority," and you will "love," them so much they feel like slitting their wrists.
So - you guys have asked me to leave over and over and over. You have complained to the hubpages team on numerous occasions that I should not be allowed to express my opinion that your beliefs are ridiculous. You have loudly asked why on earth anyone who does not believe in a god should be allowed to have an opinion on a "religion" forum.
Well - you have finally gotten me down to the point where I cannot take it any more. Which was your intention all along.
So, it is time for me to stop interacting here. I will leave you in peace to congratulate each other about how much you "love" everyone and looking forward to the party you will be enjoying in heaven.
Without me I'm afraid - spending an eternity at a party with people like you seems like a good definition of hell to me.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Please don't go! I look forward to your sarcastic and often times enlightening comments. I think you are a genuine lover and I look up to you in a lot of ways.
You and a couple other hubbers showed me it was okay to speak my mind about what I really think about religion. So please don't go.
Pretty please? Here is a new song for you. It might make you stay.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZm1TstpjQ
If that doesn't get you then I will have to search for another way.
2,965 characters and 539 words!!!
Not a single one of them has any mention of him taking responsibility for his own actions.
This is what is know as an "irrational belief" as he often liked to say.
This blamer is full of hatred, bitterness, sarcasm, malice and resentment!!!
His OP is riddled with such too.
He wants everyone to take the blame for his hatred as if we were co-dependent children.
Can' t anyone else see this fact?
God plays hard ball, not soft ball. He accepts the broken, the humble, the contrite.
Not the haughty, proud, arrogant, rude mocker who demand "proof."
Jesus is not a puppet on the "pull string of proof" and waiting to prove Himself to some scoffer...He does not operate that way and the sooner you believers get that point, the better off you will be and stop trying to "prove" things to these kinds of men and women.
He just laughs at them.
Mark you cannot go anywhere you have been here forever and that is quite unacceptable who in the heck complained? God is supposed to be Love well at least my God is so apparently now we have extremists which saddens me.
Do not go! You light the fires and I roast the marshmallows. - wordscribe41posted 14 years ago
0Mark, I would be sad to see you go. I'm surprised, to say the least, by this announcement. I hope it is something coming from YOU and not the powers above (no pun intended). I suppose you may have come to the place where you feel your work has been done here, that I certainly understand. No doubt, you've been an instrumental figure here, a force to reckon with, and I've respected you each and every step of the way. It will not be the same here, Mark. But, I think your mark will remain for a long time here. I will miss your presence here. Thank you for your rationality, logic, intelligence, and wit.
I understand how you feel somewhat Mark. People who keep making threats through invisible "gods" words are maybe too difficult for a decent mind. You know, if you think about religions you have to think like a scared kitten. It is also hard to get down to the "No, MY god is bigger/better/ more dangerous than yours." discussions without getting burn marks on your underbelly.
The questions is, can you really stay away?
I will admit, I have tried to stay away from the religious forums for many of the same reasons you listed. Besides, I don't like having really in-depth discussions or debates in text anyway.
For what it is worth, I have enjoyed your posts despite being on the opposite pole. I would love to set down and talk on the subject, but I realize that will most likely never happen. The truth is, most (not all) Christians that live the life and behave the way that truly shows Christ would not engage in this medium anyway. At least from my experience.
Anyway, I am sorry to see you go. I am even more sorry that you have been treated so poorly. May you find someone some day that defies the stereotype. If you get bored, feel free to come back.Sir Mark..
I would have to support that choice completely if HP is in the the middle of an evolutionary process of becoming a more accommodating site for Religious Fanatics, who tend to cry 'Foul' every time they are challenged.
On a farm; if it comes down to a choice of slopping the pigs as opposed to feeding my family: Then the pigs would be the next meal. How sad that Orwell gave them a voice and the latitude to remain ignorant.
We are writers; irrespective of personal beliefs & we have demonstrated our commitment to this site. As such; helped provide a positive growth platform for what has appeared to be a great place. To now have either Religion or Politics dictate to the future of dedicated writers here is sadly; highly questionable and certainly not a place I wish to contribute to either.
For anyone ignorant enough to announce or promote your post as a 'positive' result for their Orwellian cause: Get A Life - This One is the Best Chance You Have!
I'll join you for a beer and pizza my friend... happily.
However; A bit more transparency may well need to be established first perhaps, huh?
Said as only my man, Pearldiver could. Never an unoriginal thought. Love it!
- \Brenda Scullyposted 14 years ago0
Honestly I did not complain about ya Mark!!!
I told you what I thought in public.
I tried to approach you a lot of different ways and to be honest all I got was nasty comments from you about THE PERSON I LOVE.
If you think people will allow you to attack a loved one and do nothing, think again man.
You once called me a C - - T and I did nothing in return Mark.
That was just one of many insults you sent my way and you were never banned.
If you got that many complaints, maybe listening would have been a good idea?
I am NOT a candy coated believer and I engage 110% anyone who takes pot shots!!!
Just like my Master did when He was walking the earth, He did not flinch in an argument.
Perhaps you think believers are suppose to endure mocking and scoffing like a bunch of little sissy's ??? NOT EVEN man.
You get fierce with love and it says "bring it on" because it has no fear of man.
You gotta ask yourself why it is that no matter if it was Bibowen, aka-dj, atomswifey, myself or anyone else on a giant list of believers who debated you, how come you always wound up in a bloody fight man?
All of those people approached you in different ways and you still were obnoxious to them and mocked them and the ONE they love dearly.
We love our GOD and just like anyone we love, we fiercely engage anyone who mocks, scoffs and belittles the loved one.
If you think love tolerates anything and everything, think again buddy.
I am a soldier in the army of GOD and when challenged, I take people to task and I do not cry about it to any authorities as no higher authority exists above my CREATOR!!!
Do NOT equate a believer with a chicken sh*t little sissy, not a good idea man.
Go think about it.Those you mention including yourself ram your crap down others throats. I agree it is a waste of time talking to fundamentalists. You insult with every post and never see it.
I feel confident that in all the discussions no one has laid a glove on Mark, because he does not accept false "proof" from people like you.
Get over it.- \Brenda Scullyposted 14 years ago0
No plans to.
I take the position of GOD on the matter when it comes to mockers.
HE JUST LAUGHS THEM TO SCORN !!!
I am not interested in changing the opinions of a mocker, for what?
If they had some humility and quit scoffing, I would talk.
I talk to hundreds of unbelievers all the time, as soon as they mock, I laugh at them.
They get pissed off and mock even more, I laugh all the more.
Just like GOD.
More like a childish troll!
- Well Said
It does say to laugh at scoffers.
GOD has no compassion on them either.
I am sure you have read what He thinks of them.
Just look it up.Look up scoffers and mockers....it's not hard. I am amazed you do not know this already.
GOD laughs at them and so do I...Not hard to understand that for me.
Why argue with them, it's better and funnier to
Psa 2:1 Why do the nations rage? Why do the people waste their time with futile plans?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth prepare for battle; the rulers plot together against the Lord and against his anointed one.
Psa 2:3 "Let us break their chains," they cry, "and free ourselves from this slavery."
Psa 2:4 But the One who rules in heaven laughs. The Lord scoffs, mocks at them.
Psa 2:5 Then in anger he rebukes them, terrifying them with his fierce fury.
Psa 37:12 The wicked plot against the godly; they snarl at them in defiance.
Psa 37:13 But the Lord just laughs, for he sees their day of judgment coming.
Psa 52:2 All day long you plot destruction. Your tongue cuts like a sharp razor; you're an expert at telling lies. (Heavy)
Psa 52:3 You love evil more than good and lies more than truth. (WOW!!!)
Psa 52:4 You love to say things that harm others, you liar! (pretty brutal eh?)
Psa 52:5 But God will strike you down once and for all. He will pull you from your home and drag you from the land of the living.
Psa 52:6 The righteous will see it and be amazed. They will laugh and say,
Psa 52:7 "Look what happens to the mighty who do not trust in God. They trust their wealth instead and grow more and more bold in their wickedness."
Pro 1:23 Come here and listen to me! I'll pour out the spirit of wisdom upon you and make you wise.
Pro 1:24 "I called you so often, but you didn't come. I reached out to you, but you paid no attention.
Pro 1:25 You ignored my advice and rejected the correction I offered.
Pro 1:26 So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you-
Pro 1:27 when calamity overcomes you like a storm, when you are engulfed by trouble, and when anguish and distress overwhelm you.
Pro 1:28 "I will not answer when they cry for help. Even though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me.
Pro 1:29 For they hated knowledge and chose not to fear the Lord.
Pro 1:30 They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them.
Pro 1:31 That is why they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way. They must experience the full terror of the path they have chosen.
Pro 1:32 For they are simpletons who turn away from me-to death. They are fools, and their own complacency will destroy them.
Pro 1:33 But all who listen to me will live in peace and safety, unafraid of harm."
Yes I know what you see yourself as. I see a frightened little boy.
- Ghost32posted 14 years ago0
That's right ghost, this guy's god pisses himself everytime someone doesn't believe him. It's in the book!
What scares the s**t out of me is that heaps of religionists believe this vile crud and follow it!
This is called psychotic thought processes, not judgment!
I'm not ordinarily the type to post poems on here; and, to be honest, I don't know really know what to believe when it comes to God. I suppose I hope there's someone out there, because as a parent it sometimes feels like the only thing you can do is pray and hope. Also, as someone who is so unimaginably appreciative of my own health and my kids', I'll admit that I'm kind of afraid to just "write off" God, even though I'm not without my doubts. Having said that, there was a title on another writing site once - Atheism. Others had written poems, so I thought I'd take a shot and see what I came up with.
I don't pretend to be a great poet, but for a long time I've been tempted to post the poem here, on the Religion forum, because most of the time there seems to be the general belief that people who don't believe in God are living lives without thought or morality or whatever else it is people think must go with not believing in God. As someone who has just enough of a hint of faith to be afraid of being taught a lesson if rule out the possibility that there's someone to whom I should be grateful for everything I have, I can identify with SOME of what get said in this forum. At the same time, much of the time I agree with Mark's perspective on some things (when it comes to religious practices/beliefs), even if I'm not sure I agree with his non-belief. Like many others here, I also think non-believers' beliefs should be included on this forum too (if for no reason other than keeping it from turning into one, big, giant, pulpit ).
And so, as someone who has spent quite a bit of my time on the fence, only swinging my feet over to one side when I've been afraid I'm losing my balance, here's the poem:
The Atheist
Shall I do what is good
and the right thing to do
just because I fear someone
is watching?
Or shall I do what is good
and the right thing to do
because my soul and my heart
tell me to?
In my awe of the Earth
and its wonders,
in my love for my fellow man,
when the beauty of all
Nature's creatures
fills my soul with wonder,
am I so devoid of virtue?
If I love with a love
that's so grand and so strong,
If I feed the hungry, give to the poor;
If I share what I have and then
share what I know,
If I try not to hurt anyone or the world
can I be so devoid of good?
If I'm wrong and I find
that He really exists,
and I get to the gates of His Heaven;
Will He forgive me for not believing?
Will He bless me for all of the
good that I've done?
If He'd send me to Hell in spite of it all
then it won't have been I who have failed.
If I'm right that there's nobody watching
then I've been the best man that
I know how to be.
I will rest in that peace.Has this Thread been hyjacked and turned into yet another.....
or has it remained on subject and in reply to Mr. Knowles?- Pacal Votanposted 14 years ago0
Having seen a bit more children in my life, and rising three of them, I would have thought that at the age you mentioned they already have been heavily indoctrinated with what adults around them were doing, and how they were treated by adults, too. Children are born loving, and this is us adults who turn them into monsters. And frankly I cannot hold adults fully responsible for this, cause they in turn were brought up by heavily indoctrinated adults.
Which bring us to the root of the evil at least for the Western culture - ChristianityYou did not get my point.
What YOU consider normal upbringing, I consider heavy abuse of child psychology. No wonder so many people grow up psychologically heavily damaged. Yes, some kids are more resilient to this kind of upbringing, and some not. But again, this is not about teaching them love, this is just the opposite, this is about not killing their love.
I am not going back to my country, unless I am forced to - it's too cold to my liking over there. But I will leave USA as soon as you guys start gunfire. In fact I personally would have been left a few years ago, gunfire is needed to convince my wife that it's time to go.
Pearldiver, I don't know about anyone else, but my motives were to "show solidarity" for him or anyone else who takes the non-believer side and apparently may be subject to having people send e.mails expressing a wish they not be on here. I pretty much find it objectionable that anyone would send e.mails in such a situation. Do the same people send e.mails about other people who have different religious beliefs I wonder? So, my motive was try to "enlighten" (I don't like that word) anyone for whom "the shoe fits" that morality is not just for believers; and that lightning isn't likely to strike the religious forum if people who don't believe share their views as well. I don't know Mark (although I know the kind of stuff he says about religion
), and I think views like his do belong on a religion forum. Anyway, I hope nobody thinks I tried to hijack the thread, because although I may choose what could be seen as "odd" ways to make a point, I was aiming to make a point related to Mark's thread thread and comments.My two cents worth. I have to say that I too will miss Mark. And I mean MARK. Not his views, and roughshod methods. His comments were broad ranging, but very short, abrupt and offensive at times. His many replies ended up as (almost) mindless repetition of things he felt very strongly about. many of them being totally irrelevant.
He has challenged me often, to really evaluate what I believe and WHY I believe them. Unfortunately, given all his tenacity to unseat me, he actually strengthened my resolve.
I wouldn't be an atheist for all the money on Wall St. It is empty, pointless, meaningless and powerless. Not to mention, lifeless.
I know Mark is a nice person, helping others wherever and whenever he could. No doubt he will continue to do so. But I think he should stay within his areas of expertise, and stay out of "religion". It's a contradiction for him not to. He is NOT religious. DAH! Not rocket science!
I will pray for you Mar. (I know you don't want me to, and think you don't NEED my prayers, but, what the heck, I'll do it anyway). I only ask one little favor in return. Be sure to let me (or all of us) know when you repent and turn to serve the Living God. I'd love to hear that! Sorry to disappoint you, you will not be the FIRST atheist that "believed". (But you probably think I'm lying---again )
See ya dude.- ryankettposted 14 years ago0
Mark, I understand your reasons..... but cant you just leave the forum alone for a while? Surely your hubs are going to remain?
I too am getting fed up with the hundreds of religious freaks on here, to the point where I am not going to converse on the forum anymore.
Last night somebody on this forum pretty much told me to kill myself, thats the lowest thing that has ever been said to me online in my 10 years using the internet.
That was a login with 0 hubs and 5 friends, goes to show what hubpages has become.
So I agree wholeheartedly with you, I am considering walking away from hubpages for the same reasons.
Just dont delete your hubs ok buddy Buggar
Just when I bought a new dictionary tooWhat does your dictionary say of the word 'Ookaka' ???
I'm trying to get him a job at the Bumble Town newspaper as editor.... But... The paymaster is extremely zealous in his religious beliefsPearl??? never heard of it
Im as passionate about my beliefs as Mark was of his, all good
I like freedom you see, my ancestors been fighting for years to keep it my kiwi bro
But as far as God .........Its always news AND revenue one way or another ,is it not
Same on you EK
You never heard of it? 'Oosshit'Is he leaving hubpages or just the religion forum? I got the impression from that it was the forum. I could be wrong but...
I am going to write this in the most generalist of terms. I am an outspoken Christian believer. I take a stand for my God and through my God. Speaking only for myself, I have been lied about over and over on here and I take it with a grain of salt as the ones lying are prone to do so and there is nothing I can do to change that.
Speaking for myself, I have not "shoved" my beliefs down anyones throat. I speak the truth in a religion forum about my beliefs. Others may disagree with my beliefs and thats ok. But I have the right to post responses to them do I not?
If anyone chooses to leave hubpages or the forums it is not BECAUSE of anyone else. It is a personal choice most often, or the choice of admin. at hubpages.
And that choice if made by a grown, adult person should not be made on the basis of someones else "bullying" them. Which is why I have chosen to stay on hubpages and stay in joining in conversation on the forums. Regardless of how much hatred is spewed my way.
Debate is healthy. Different views reflect diversity among people. Diversity is a good thing.
Having said all of that I wll conclude with this, Believers are not hate mongers. Our love, Gods love can be demonstrated through thought provoking powerful messages. If that is abrasive so be it. Gods word sometimes "cuts" as it is often called "a sword". Do we love less citing scripture? No. We use it both as an instrument of truth and as a weapon in spiritual warfare. We do not battle flesh and blood. Speaking for myself, when I "battle" in here, I know I am not battling flesh and blood, I am battling in the spirit. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".
In knowing that, what is abundant then in the heart of believers on here? Love first and foremost for their God! And then what is abundant in the heart of those who ridicule excessively, mock insistantly, spreading their hate and distain for God, insulting Him, His Word, His people?
It is clear.
And that is the "spirit" that we battle at times in here. That spirit of hate, of distain not the individuals themselves.
If that battle grows to be too much for some then it is just that. What more then can be said?
Now when we engage with someone who is not of that hateful spirit, but one who really is seeking, or generally just wants to know or experience anothers beliefs, then we share in that spirit. (That one was for you fairbear and rmcrayne)
These two and I came to an understanding and have become friends. Do we share beliefs? No. But we share the same spirit. The spirit of love and kindness, of respect and care.
It is because of that kind of spirit we can share our beliefs with eachother, respectfully, though at times a bit heated.
And thats all I have to say about this.in light of the crazy post replied to, I think that comment is a fair assessment!
Fruitcake is quite apt.
If you hate the "profanity" why did you post it again?
Atomswifey ...arghhhhhhh ,ya givin me a headache!
Why are you always telling everyone what Gods Job is???
I think He is quite capable himself ,dont you?
Your job is to love , no no shhhhhhh....ah...shhhhFor we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places .
(Ephesians 6:12)
“Go to the exiles, to the sons of your people, and speak to them and tell them, whether they listen or not, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ ” (Ezekial 3:11)
The most loving thing a believer can do is present the gospel in hopes of bringing others to salvation.
It is because we love we do so.
God gave us our job. It is to spread this message of salvation:
"That whosoever believeth in me shall be saved."
Salvation is the greatest gift God gives us. And how does one come to recieve that? By hearing. "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". (Romans 10:17)
And who is to deliver Gods word? We are.
Love, without the truth is an empty shell.
Atomshubby
Haven't you got some medication to take, to knock yourself out for awhile?
Perhaps you're bored again at opening your mouth to change your feet.. surely you could give it a rest or awhile and go find some witches to burn?
The Fruitcake Radar is going ballastic each time you wiggle your ..... point of veiw!!Mark, I'll pick up on one point that you mentioned- the digression of religious conversations.
This is probably part of the reason why I have chosen not to continue interacting heavily in the forums regarding religious matters.
As I'm sure you know, it's not giving up, it's not giving in, it's not conceding a view. It's choosing to not enter through a house full of violent people with sticks. (Okay that's the best analogy I could come up with.) Seriously, though, continuing to share viewpoints has only digressed into a gang fight- the gang with the most people (with sticks) wins the beat down.
To me, that isn't love. That isn't relational. That isn't Jesus.
Regardless, I still like to poke my head in and interact in a handful of interesting religious threads. It's certainly your decision, and although we disagree in our beliefs, I'd love it if you still poked in to chat every now and then.
Rest assured, our interactions will be friendly, beneficial to us both and maybe even uplifting
Regardless of what you choose, I hope you feel as if you can continue to interact with the those of us who will engage in respectful discussion.Ok well I should not have checked in here before the Tylenol kicked in but I did....so...
I got two choices AW ,one answer you ,( and I could)or
two, get up and walk away...
Guess which one I choseMark ,you shouldn't go. We will miss your personality. But if that's your choice I'm not going to stop you. You're old enough to know what you're doing.
Note: Of course I mean going from the relig. forum. I see many people misunderstood- cosetteposted 14 years ago0
OH.
well, thanks for clearing that up i was wondering
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