The age of unbridled ignorance??

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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Unfathomable why some people can believe the things they do, and why their parents or someone doesn't even teach them valid facts of life!

How anyone could believe humans came from apes, and how anyone could teach their kids that round pegs fit into square holes, and other things so lacking in common sense, is beyond me!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, for one have you read up on evolution? do you want to learn about them or do you just want to express frustration?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I wanted to read fiction, I'd read fiction.
  
  It's amazing to me how badly so much of society has deteriorated into a stage of ignorance and no accountability.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ignorance and accountability is not exclusive to those who believe as you do. As a matter of fact some would say that putting all on a ancient book is ignorance and avoidance of accountability.
  
  Ok, if you're venting about today's world vent. You can write a hub about it and I'll comment. But a forum presupposes you are willing to entertain that you could be wrong or grow from a premise. Or that you are willing to test how it would do as an argument.
  
  So if your mind is set, or your cup full, then there is no point in pouring more coffee in it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's the problem with "knowledge". So many college grads are pressured into reading all kinds of theories, when their own common sense (if they'd listen to it) would tell them that most of those theories are simply hogwash, dreamt up by vivid imaginations.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like Creationism ? or Jesus theory(err fact) where a guy who manages to split ocean died on wooden cross helplessly? Yeah, today's world is badly brainwashing kids,Brenda. Be wary of evolution it's poison to children with fantasy.
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  CaribeMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Common sense suggests that the Sun goes around the Earth. hmmmmm, so that must be true.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I mean, who believes otherwise...that would be another set of genes talking the doctor side.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you know nothing about what you are refuting than your refutation does not have a foot to stand on.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a tongue-twister!
  
  I dare you to say that 3 times really fast! haha
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How can you be sure it is fiction? Have you learned about it to know that what you believe is "fiction," is, indeed fiction, as you say?
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there will always be ignorance and unaccountability, it's nothing new or recent. there are more humans living in the world than before, so it looks more prevalent.
  
  ignorance is not based on an opinion. it comes from apathy or lack of knowledge, instruction.
  
  common sense? and who defines it? just asking questions, brenda, that's all..
  
  didn't einstein say something about common sense?
  Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda it is you who are ignorant! Anyone who does not believe in your version of the sky fairy is ignorant? I would say that in 2010 that is ignorance beyond belief!
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  evolution is always taught as a theory
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  True but many say it is a fact even though it is a theory. Then some say a theory is not a fact. It is like they speak from different sides of their mouthes depending on which way they need to go.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those who understand evolution also understand it is a theory and a fact. Try to understand what you are seemingly against, then you can argue with some intelligence.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Though I admittedly do not believe in creation, there exist people that believe in both evolution and creation together without any internal dissonance. It is possible, they can compliment each other.
  
  And I concur with cecil, do you deny it simply because it threatens your worldview or have have you done legitimate research and then made an informed decision for yourself that you can rationally justify.
  
  No one person has the same worldview, and it is quite naive to assume the one you hold is the only one that can possibly be right.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have never heard of a person believing that humans came from apes. You are probably referring to Evolution theory; if so you have created your very own "unbridled ignorance".
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, you know what she means. She is obviously not interested in Biology.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anyway, see you around Brenda!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I know what she means. I believe Brenda starts her day calling friends and neighbors with her updates. Some of them suddenly remember that they had "something really important to do", others have caller ID. After a few hours she gives up, logs on to hubpages and let's it fly.
  
  It's funny and usually harmless until just before naptime when she gets cranky and begins the Pervert / baby-killer / dictator rants.
  
  That's about the time I remember having "something really important to do".
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  rmcrayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it just me that hopes that Brenda is a sockpuppet just messing with the rest of us, and not an actual person? She is on my short list for "most exasperating people".
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I have met many real-life humans who share her beliefs. I don't think a person could fake being Brenda so effectively.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  *once again laughing by myself* I hate being mean, but sometimes you need to be especially mean to be funny. I have never met or seen a kind comedienne in my life.
  
  (no offense Brenda, but this is particularly witty)
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try Movie "The Mist" ...
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  Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're not alone.
  
  I fear for the spiritual well-being of any impressionable folk that she may come into contact with and corrupt.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She has already been marked off of my list along with an insulting priest and a troll. They are a waste of time and I find myself pitying them too much for their lack of facts and reality.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And heeeeere comes the next happy boy sliding on his belly!
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  JWestCattleposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sliding on the belly is a real persistent theme of yours....got experience with that? Do closed minds, and perhaps 'stupid' minds, get a lot of belly-up work these days? Tough job.....
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  Robert Kernodleposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To say "Humans came from apes" is very oversimplified, you know.
  
  Apes came from cosmic dust, as did humans, and there is no conflict in believing that this was God's method of creating both, where apes came first from cosmic dust, then humans from the further complexification of that cosmic dust into shortsighted thinkers.
  
  Robert
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are all atomically connected to the universe! Hurrah!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  like Uranus? lol
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Whatever dimensional universe floats ya boat, I suppose! Greek One really supports his planet of Uranus, strongly, I must add... Ha-ha!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very true.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! So, I can call people a "complicated ape" and it shall now be considered a compliment? Rock on...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where does that come from..because humans and people came from dust doesn't make us apes.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If we evolved from apes, we are a more complicated, advanced form of the ape. Hence forth the phrase, "complicated ape!" Totally groovy! Thanks for the data, yo; this site is banging 'bots full of info!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  didnt apes evolve from apes too?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer to think of myself (a la Douglas Adams) as a "talking monkey."
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer Orangutan.. they are far superior (accoring to my interpretation of the Planet of the Apes)
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes, gorilla warfare looks nice......
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i prefer a good mud wrestle
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that...Bonobos gone wild, perhaps?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  female bonobos, they're the big shots in the bonobo tribe, the males are just escorts. The female bonobos are like Madonna apes with male model apes dangling in the arms.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but you are!
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What did Forest Gump say? "Stupid is as stupid does." LOL!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah they evolved from amino acids that fell from icy meteors aka dust.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ADAMAH (dust) or red soil. incidentally amino acids turn red
  
  ".... Certain amino acids can also be identified with specific color reagents. When histidine reacts with diazosulfanilic acid a cherry red color is observed."
  
  Incidentally, this kind of amino acid is present in 5 kinds of eukaryotes (uni-cellular organisms that we evolved from)
  
  makes you think right?
  
  But some people believe this as like man was formed from dust as in formed like form a birthday cake from flour.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just to get science-fiction-y,
  
  what if each kind of eukaryote are the five colors of man?
  
  yellow, white, brown, black, red... eh? yeah, call my agent I'm changing genres!
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think of these things when you eat a simple tomato? Complication is stupid, for example: let me only eat the items, while trying to survive in nature, that I can identify 100% of its composition via science books & medical facts - yeah, I'll starve to death. How foolish... Ha-ha!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually that's what i do. when I was 7 I was talking to the lactobacilli in my milk and my sister never let me forget it!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i love my life and its little tiny connect the dots. boys in high school just totally bought it. i got so many roses and chocolates, and nerdy boys calling me their soul-mates! that was the age of unbridled ignorance (just stay on topic)
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh well, there's nothing like taking the easy way out. Just think, some people draw free money for such things. LOL!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There appears to be a few apes on the internet.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually you can call yourself this, i'm a complicated eukaryote. me and marine. (we divided way back)
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This may be, however, we must take the higher road and exercise understanding and tolerance. All life is about perception. What one sees as ignorance another sees as wisdom. We are not to judge. We can persuade and testify, but in the end we are to accept our neighbor for who they choose to be without interacting with them in a condescending tone. Pulling down the spirit of another is not Christlike. As we judge we shall be judged also. Pride is the biggest obstacle for the vast majority of us. It prevents learning. It prevents tolerance and understanding. It encourages and fosters a self righteous attitude. This is wrong and only conjures negative feelings. Anything that brings such results is not of God.
  
  We are to persuade and testify, but in all things exercise exceptional love.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But let me just point out one thing:
  Love is NOT love if you perceive yourself better than another. That's called pity for them being "less" than you. So if you truly love someone, you get them warts and all. It's not a smorgasborg of loving this and that. Christ was about UNCONDITIONAL love. So you don't get to love the dessert part of the person. Doesn't work.
  
  So exercise your love, but for pete's sake, don't confuse it with your pity for those who are so "lost" when you "know" that you are so "found." Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I don't know Pete but there's no reason to point it out to me. I thoroughly mentioned it in my original post. The process of pulling someone down requires pride on the part of the perpetrator. I agree, that's not love. I am not and never have been one of those "love this love that" types of people. Love means much more than that. Love requires understanding and tolerance. It requires work - mostly on the self to see beyond the perceived imperfections of others. To love IS to serve others and to accomplish the uplifting of their spirits.
  
  I believe we are on the same page, but you might be misperceiving me and my real character.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your pride is like a beacon in the night, priest. Shining out for all to see. But not the oh-so-humble bearer of the light.
  
  Almost sad.
  
  Hubris - look it up, priest.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I had a tear I might actually shed it as if I care. Rantings so common like this only cause constipation. Hope all it well on your side of the world!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you don't care. LOLOLOL Pearls before swine.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, more like belly sliding on a slick of mule feces. Many on the forums get the taste quite often I suspect.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said. I don't expect you to listen to me, because I see through you and what I say is painful. True - but love the passive aggression.
  
  Well done. No pride here is there priest?
  
  I will take the high road and agree though. Yes - you are better than me and I respect your opinion. I T O L E R A T E your opinion.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure how to perceive you, but I take you for your word. Perhaps my comment was directed less at you personally and more to the broader range of "loving Christians."
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  dfagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't know that being a Christian required required one to also believe in a literal 7 day creation. Nor do I find creationism and evolution to be exclusive of one another. I thought the Bible was suppose to emphasize spiritual truth.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - you mean I should not ridicule people like you who cannot understand science and think they have all the answers?
  
  I should not judge you - I should simply try and teach you the real facts? OK - will do.
  
  Sorry for the ridicule earlier.
  
  See - there is this theory called "evolution." It pretty much knocks your beliefs out of the water fact-wise. You should check it out. If you have any questions - there are quite a lot of educated people here who can answer them for you.
  
  From now on I take the high road. Let me know when you want to be educated. I am ready to teach you whenever you are ready to learn.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not an s**-stirrer at all, are ya
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  Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because that theory doesn't hold up.
  God doesn't need to "turn" apes into humans, etc., because He can (and did) create many things by just speaking them into existence.
  
  So for you to even imagine that we have a "common ancestor" is a theory devoid of common sense. And if it even had a shred of truth to it, you'd have to then try to figure out who the ancestor of THAT "common ancestor" was, and who/what the ancestors were of THOSE, and so on and so on. Which comes right back to how life even began in the first place. Which points undeniably to a Creator who made mankind in His image, not from animals.
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  rmcrayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I'm gonna go with my sockpuppet theory on Brenda. She's one of those "where would you even begin" [to try to have a reasonable conversation with] people.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well.
  The more bizarre the post is, the more frustrated people get... which means everybody gets all up in arms... then the yelling starts...
  
  All the more to get attention with.
  
  That's my theory.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You liberals cruising for a brusing? Put'um up!
  
  How you gals do'in?
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hee hee
  
  what you up too - good or no good?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just winding down! How you do'in?
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm wondering, why am I not in my bed yet? It's late & I'm sleepy but here I am playing Canasta and screwing around on HubPages.
  
  I can't seem to ignore this forum though. Every time I read the OP, my head goes
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hear there's a vacination for that!
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, there is.
  But
  
  My insurance won't cover it.
  So here I am, stuck with high co-pays and an exploding head.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You need a day at the spa!
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I could go for a cucumber mask...
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  kaleem rajaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how do you explain the plethora of evolutionary evidence? if you are a christiam fundamentalist and believe in genesis, how do you account for dinosaurs? what also will happen to your understanding of where we came from, if tomorrow we made first contact with other beings? and i dont know why people think science and religion are mutually exclusive. i believe in god as creator but i also believe in the laws and facts of physics and biology. the big bang is a fact. but i believe a super-souled eternal omnipotent archetypal creator is also fact.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, did you read that book, Ron?
  
  I read it last year.
  I still have it on my bookshelf.
  
  It is a good truthful book.
  
  What makes you think Parsley is my favorite evangelist, though?
  
  Actually, he used to be, until he went from good ol' Kentucky-boy-basic-simple-hellfire-'n'-brimstone salvation preachin' to....a more money-focused, "new" prophecy-teaching mode. Seems to get most of the good preachers every time.
  
  There are still several that are good, though. Charles Stanley maybe. Adrian Rogers was good; re-runs of him can be found; but so far the best is Billy Graham, even though he's been at one point the subject/object of some doctrinal conflict. He kept his messages set to the basics of salvation, praise God! even while inserting his vast Biblical knowledge at appropriate times.
  I hear he wants to preach at least once again. I hope to hear it if he does.
  
  I doubt you were interested in hearing all that.
  But hey that's what ya get when ya post a pic of Rod Parsley to me.
  Again, have you read the book?
  Most of all, have you read THE Book??
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A strong chin and sensuous lips are all I need to know that someone has intelligence, integrity, and sincerity
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol sensuous lips
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All the Rod Parsley nonsense aside, (how could I tell you were a follower?)
  
  You refer to "The" bible quite often. Just to clear things up, please tell which of the many versions is "The".
  
  New Jerusalem? NIV? King James? American Standard? Geneva?
  
  Liberal Socilaist Babykiller?
  (OK, I made that one up)
  
  P.S. How's your Mom?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I use the KJV.
  If I had an "older" version that I KNEW to be reliable, I'd use it. But definitely not the newer ones like the NLT and others; those have too many man-made translations/slant.
  
  Mom's okay; about as usual.
  The most important thing is that she's still a rock of Faith, even after all these years and all of life's hardships.
  Thanks for asking.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So the pneumonia is gone or under control? I'm glad she has her faith to comfort her. When belief is used for support, I'm all for it. When it is used as a weapon to bash peaceful people who have done the believers no harm, I'm agin' it.
  
  It's interesting that you choose the KJV as your source for ultimate truth. "In The Beginning" by Allistair McGrath is a great book dealing with how the KJV came to be, and how it became the standard for many modern Christians.
  
  Spoiler Alert:
  
  King James was a bit light in the loafers.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, she recuperated from the pneumonia. For someone who's over 80 years old, she recovered really well I think.
  
  Hmm...
  If the KJV is wrong or biased, I'd think that would make the other versions wrong too.
  After all, the KJV isn't much different at all. It's just the nuances in particular verses in the other versions that give me cause for alarm.
  The KJV is really not that hard to understand.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe that's true, but why would you read a version written in Shakespearean English when there are umpteen sound ones written in modern English, and that benefit from the 400 years of scholarship that have taken place since (not sure of the date for the KJV, but King James was crowned in 1611 I think)
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because modernization leaves too much room for error.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But the KJV was written one thousand five hundred years after the final text of the original was set down...
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NO HIJACKING!! haha
  
  Well, that's where the Spiritual interpretation concept comes in!
  What is written and protected by the Spirit and understood via the Spirit is...simply Truth. Which leaves no need for all the hoopla/controversy about the supposed erroneous translation....
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Believe it or not, I like this answer. I mean, as I am sure you know, I don't actually believe that the Bible is divinely inspired, but I would accept that, from a Protestant perspective at least, as long as you are "led by the Spirit" while you are reading, then the message should come through. (Of course I am not sure what the position of the Catholic Church is on this. It used not to trust normal people to interpret the Bible for themselves I think, but since the Vatican Council of the 1960s I am not sure where they stand on that)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  
  Deary me. Lying for Jesus huh?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Why on earth would you trust the court of King James? Those guys were hardly saints you know
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Best wishes to your mom Brenda
  I hope she is well
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When people grow up, they usually choose their own path regardless of what their parents taught them.
  
  Some people investigate truths instead of just closing their eyes and denying the possibilities.
  An open mind is a great gift.
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  WildIrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "...how anyone could teach their kids that round pegs fit into square holes..."
  
  Round pegs do fit into square holes. You've got it all turned around. It is the square that doesn't fit into the round hole. You should get down on your hand and knees and play with blocks some time.
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rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

a closed mind misses much of life worrying about what everyone else believes.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very nicely stated, rebekah.
  Because of the media and the miracles of the age we live in, such things as ignorance, intolerance, hate, violence, etc., are more widely advertised than ever before, thus creating an illusion that the world has gone to hell. In actual fact, humans have always acted this way. There is likely no increase at all in how stupid we've become. It's probably about the same as it's always been, with the addition of seeing and hearing about it in high definition, 24/7 on over 800 channels of viewing choice.
  
  It's amazing how twisted perceptions can become without adequate knowledge of facts.
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you're saying we might have no difference of actual intelligence level but we're bombarded with displays of stupidity "just because we can" display evidence of those (stupid) things now with our technology?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm saying that you're going to find what you look for. If you're looking for negative, you'll find as much as you want. If you're looking for positive, you'll see an abundance of that, too. If you believe we are no more intelligent than we were 100 years ago, then you'll support it with your own twisted perceptions and evidence.
  
  However, I have a tendency to look at a glass that is not so empty, because there is emperical data to support those ideas.
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gotcha...got your point, that is. Thx for clarifying.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome. And thanks for asking for clarification so that it's less likely to be misconstrued.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
In the case of the round peg and square hole scenario that keeps you up at night, you are again mistaken. Both peg and hole are (more or less) round.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not so.
  I was referring in general to facts.
  Many kids are being taught that 1 + 1 = 3, in effect, because they can fill in the gap with imaginative nonsense.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In a sense it is does... 11 in Binary is 3
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Socialist Mathematician!
  
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  or advanced math
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My point exactly.
  
  Disguising imagination as fact doesn't add up.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You look at the world in one direction, and miss everything in your peripheral. But that is what you want isn't it? If you don't look anywhere else you don't risk threatening a worldview you've become comfortably attached to.
  
  Religion is not the problem, neither is belief, nor is faith. Self-inflicted ignorance is.
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  nice to read a voice of reason and logic. welcome to HP.
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  CaribeMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Disguising imagination as fact doesn't add up"
  
  EXACTLY!! I agree with you. Are you talking about this kind of IMAGINATION?
  
  "Where did a young-earth worldview come from? Simply put, it came from the Bible... Of course, the Bible doesn’t say explicitly anywhere, “the earth is 6,000 years old.” ... God gave us something better...s a “birth certificate.” For example, using my personal birth certificate, I can calculate how old I am at any point. It is similar with the earth. Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:1–5). From there, we can begin calculations of the age of the earth. Let’s do a rough calculation to show how this works. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first 5 days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today. Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).
  So a simple calculation is:
  5 days
  + ~2000 years
  + ~4000 years
  ______________
  ~6000 years
  At this point, the first 5 days are negligible. Quite a few people have done this calculation using the Masoretic text (which is what most English translations are based on) and, with careful attention to the biblical details, have arrived at the same time-frame of about 6,000 years, or about 4,000 B.C. " (Quoted from Answersingenesis.org)
  
  or this kind of "imagination"?
  
  200,000 years ago humans (homo sapiens) in Africa leave what will be a fossil record of their species.
  
  50,000 YA Humans running from drought have left Africa, taking a coastal route to India and then to Australia.
  
  43,000 YA Humans are in an area around 500 kilometers south of what is today Moscow, their presence to be surmised in CE 2007 by archaeologists who have uncovered artifacts at what today is called the Kostenki Site.
  
  40,000 YA Near what today is Beijing, human bones dating to around this year have been found. At least one person to whom these bones belong wore shoes. According to Erik Trinkaus of Washington University in Missouri, evidence also exists of some shoe or sandal wearing among Neanderthals.
  
  ETC, ETC... BTW, in Germany scientists have found musical instruments which are 35000 and 40000 years old. Check this hub http://hubpages.com/hub/Worlds-Oldest-M … nstruments
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not just make the circle big enough for the square to fit comfortably through. No problem. Unless of course you just don't believe it is possible, then just make the square smaller then the circle and that should suffice.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda and I were discussing the mechanics of male on male sex...
  
  WTF you talkin' bout.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now I am really confused. What does it have to do with squares?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda has postulated that men's outies (I've referred to them as pegs) don't fit a male's innie (I've referred to them as holes) She cites this as evidence that God does not approve of homosexuals, and in fact blesses those who bash them and call them perverts.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Using that same logical geometrical thinking, would oral sex therefore be sanctioned by the divine?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As long as you do it 2 dimensionally....
  
  Or with young boys and don't get turned in by a socialist pervert baby killers; aka agnostics
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  by 2 dimensionally, do you mean with a pair of beautiful twins??
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not at all what I meant...
  
  But I like your way of thinking.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just trying to find the truth
  
  no compulsion
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As has been proven beyond any doubt, the truth can be found only in the KJV bible.
  
  Consult the book Labius
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  is it a pop up book?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it pops in.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i love Penthouse Publishing Corp
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is kissing your wife on the face considered oral sex?
  How about on the neck?
  How about the breasts?
  Do ya draw the line when it starts feeling too good?
  How do ya know where to draw the line?
  
  If the lips are made for kissing ... If this is what they were designed to do ?
  I think that it has more to do with going up the down staircase.
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William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago
Something my parents taught me that has proven valuable: don't feed the trolls.
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secularist10posted 14 years ago
What greater assault on "common sense" is there than making the claim that the earth is round, not flat?

Does not every single person, when they look out the window, see a basically flat horizon?

Claiming that the world is round, and not flat, is one of the greatest counterintuitive claims of human life. I wonder if Brenda would take issue with it?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dunno about you, but I've never believed the earth is flat.
  
  And I don't personally know anyone who believed that.
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So it seems you are willing to take issue with one scientific idea that goes against "common sense" but not another?
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skyfireposted 14 years ago
You're discarding biblical truth which is wrong thing to do,you'll be sent to hell for questioning christian assumptions. I'll pray for you so that you'll learn the truth that when you drive your car on kansas highway you'll realize that earth is flat.
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha yeah, or Florida--flat as a board. And hey, I may be going to hell, but at least i'll have plenty of company!
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  CaribeMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian's assumptions must be grounded on Jesus teachings, examples and moral, not on Old Testament's presumptions. Many Old Testament "teachings" and "laws" contradicts Jesus examples of tolerance, indulgence, charity and above all, love for the fellow man. Take for example the "Talion Law", many rules stated in Leviticus, and other parts of the Old Testament.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
do we know for CERTAIN that the world is not flat????
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even if we ignore the satellite images we have of the ovoid Earth, a flat Earth is physically impossible in the vacuum of space.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  vaccum of space?
  
  I don't know nothing about house cleaning... I'm talking about the earth here
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well that is the most retarded thing I've heard all day. Space is a vacuum, though granted not a perfect one. There is more than one definition for the term, look it up.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there is no need to throw around words like 'retarded'
  
  I'm just searching for the truth.
  
  Greek One, the peaceful fact seeker
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say you were retarded, I said what you said was.
  
  A vacuum is the absence of matter. Between bodies of matter in space (planets, black holes, asteroids, stars, etc.) there exists nothing, that is called a vacuum. Because there are gravitational forces pulling in all directions in space, it is not possible for something to exist flat, because it is being pulled on in all directions.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pulled like toffee during a carnival?
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, because toffee is only being pulled on in one dimension on one plane. If toffee were to also be pulled in all other rotations of the three x, y, and z planes, if it had enough elasticity not to snap (low tensile strength) it would also no longer be flat.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how then do you explain my former girlfriend, who was clearly a space cadet, yet was very flat regardless of which angle you looked at her from?
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps your gravitational pull wasn't quite enough to have an effect on her shape (or interest....)?
  
  I'm just puttin' it out there!!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ironically enough, she resented me "puttin' it out there' on many occasions
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  *snickering* i need to call my real friends. you guys made me miss them.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  spheric thinking? interesting.
  light is this.
  the magnetic/absorptive stasis between the wave/ray (pre-post optic) would be space. The objects within: dominant, equal or submissive 3³ stasis of light. A star being projective dominant, a moon being reflective dominant, a blackhole dominant equal.
  
  sorry the toffee/coffee pulled me off topic.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, in the Cartesian coordinate system anyways. It's easier to visualize in the spherical coordinate system (r, theta, psi), but then nobody would get it lol.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Odd that you guys choose to limit yourselves in this fashion.
  
  Euclid has a lot to answer for.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, look what the AUI dragged in.
  Hi bud, how are you?
  
  ps, do Koala bears still eat his stuff?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good thanks. I am 5 lbs lighter. Had a great bike ride today. My wife is considerably lighter than me and chasing her up the hills is good exercise.
  
  Had a good weekend - had some friends over - made Caesar salad followed by poulet frites.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why did i just get a hybrid image of City of Angels meets Hannibal Lecter, played by Robin Williams...
  
  ...glad to here your health is improving. good job.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is the most hilarious hub day day I've ever spend an entire sick day on.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sick toooooo
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  no doubt.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cool; open up geometry class for us, while you're at it.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  $http://alexsah.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/funny-math-test-answer1.jpg$
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, or 5 ... I remember when that was going around in forwards, there was a bunch of them, all equally hilarious
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Awesome! Ha-ha-ha!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know what is funny `bout that:
  posted by- innocent english dot com....
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's my puppet name
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is funny! I wish I was laughing with somebody instead of snickering over cold paella.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is like a forum for joeys and rosses.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, that is what it has turned into hasn't
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  By monkeys.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Easy now; that "pulled on in all directions" type talk, can get ya in trouble. Ha-ha!
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, this is the wrong forum for that
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry your knowledge of vacuum contradicts with biblical truth. Can you make this definition in favor of christian belief ? Either you're friend of Christ or enemy of Christ. Choose yer side..
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I choose neither.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But do you also
  
  Love Jesus, Moses and Allah?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I like 2 of them lol
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're smart enough to know that all those purported pics of the earth from space have been "doctored." I think that and book-banning, and a few other things are the point here. (He said, tongue-in-cheek...)
  
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
I agree with Cecilia, she pretty much shut you down in the first response of the thread.

Ignorance is refusing to research something because it disagrees with your current belief.
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Obscure Divineposted 14 years ago
One thing is for sure: Ignorance is rifely running rampant amid society!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A society I want no part of. Mob mentality breeds ignorance.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You seek seclusion from those doltish beings, as well. I know what ya mean...
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I have thought about moving to the woods at times to live in the trees. lol
  I'm jk, I would miss my home and family along with controlled heating and air, just not everyone else of the material illusion.
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But if you're not in ignorance, can't you participate and help, marineealways24?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No one can unless people stop relying on the mob to think for them and start thinking individually.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
i'm sorry.. i need proof
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Riots. Wars.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what about them?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mob mentality, along with trying to live by fake illusionary society standards which are set by media and the mob.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
..and another thing about this whole evolution myth...

Why are so many of today's animals so darn yummy? Wouldn’t you think that they would develop a sour taste over time, so that they would be made less appealing for to our taste buds (much like my relationship soured with my former flat chest girlfriend?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but then wouldn't your taste buds evolve so that they taste good again and even small breasts are a joy to suckle on?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i love science
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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mega1posted 14 years ago
Brenda - are you going to get around to your real homophobic agenda soon? we are all waiting, breathlessly.

your opinions and writings are fatuous

fat·u·ous (fch-s)
adj.
Foolish or silly, especially in a smug or self-satisfied way: "'Don't you like the poor lonely bachelor?' he yammered in a fatuous way" (Sinclair Lewis). See Synonyms at foolish.
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
One must respect Brenda for finally posting on a subject where she is a recognized authority - 'unbridled ignorance'.
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  teehee!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
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  rmcrayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really good one
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Ba dum dum.
  
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i wish was not laughing but its a brilliant joke.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Speak of the Devil!

http://www.whatismormonism.com/
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
Sorry Brenda, it's my fault I left the barn doors open again!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are so bad!!! hahahaaa
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
A round man cannot be expected to fit in a square hole right away. He must have time to modify his shape.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
My cat ran away Sunday, and returned late that night.
I knew cats have a "homing" instinct and he'd most likely come back unless he got killed or something.

He's such a sweet kitty! It would be so neat if he could've told me where he'd been and what he experienced during his little trip out into the world.....

But alas! He can't TALK literally. I doubt he could've even remembered everything that happened to him. It would've been even neater if he had the ability to listen to instruction, to be taught like humans can be taught; if he had, he probably wouldn't have run off in the first place!

So...I was thinking how well this illustrates that the basic evolution theory is CRAP!!! If we had evolved from apes, apes would've by now grown the ability to speak and formulate ideas and learn better by being taught.
I bet cats would've done the same thing. And dogs, etc. And elephants and whatever animal is highly intelligent.

For Mark Know-less who says he's an animal descended from apes, I say phooey-----take responsibility for your own behavior and beliefs, because mankind's instincts PLUS our intelligence PLUS our consciences PLUS many other aspects well-illustrates the distinction between the animals and humans. Just 'cause people choose not to use their consciences and common sense doesn't mean it isn't there for their usage.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I do not understand the argument here. I tried honest. Could you re-word it, maybe
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure thing.
  
  Cats are cats. Animals.
  Apes are apes. Animals.
  Those facts never change, no matter who tries to imagine that they have or will change.
  
  Humans are humans.
  We're different from animals. That fact never changes.
  
  The theory of basic evolution is.....a silly imaginative theory dreamt up by someone who refused to use their common sense.
  
  Many people do try to use that theory to excuse their behavior because they don't want to use self-control nor that common sense.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cats are different from apes just as we are different from cats; felines vs. primates. That does not exclude the fact that we are not only all animals, we are also all mammals.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People who use the theory of evolution to excuse their behaviour are dough brains. Right and wrong remain right and wrong, no matter what.
  
  The theory of evolution proposes that traits do not develop that do not give an animal an advantage in their environmnent. Admittedly, based on this, you would think elephants would develop speech -- how could it not be an advantage, right? Except that there is nothing that says that speech is "inevitable" for ANY species. The theory states that we "happened" to develop speech.
  
  Hey look, I know it sounds weird, but that is not really the question. The question is that of whether it is logically possible. And it is.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well you do have a point in that we are not animals and therefore must be more deliberate instead of reactive in our behaviors. But we do have this capacity as you mentioned.
  
  ok let me put it this way, a day in G-d's life is an eternity in ours. So what He would create in an instant, is a million years to ours. right? evolution is G-d creating us magically but in slow-mo. So it seems like evolution to us, but really its G-d doing it in god time
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like you are missing Brenda
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  we can't shove in her you know. we gotta let her taste the honey before she eats the entire waffle.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She's saying because there are no homo erectus' running around, and the apes we have now have shown no indication of evolving into a sort of prehistoric human, evolution can't possibly be real.
  
  It's a very ill-informed position.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Apes DID develop speech. Why I just had a conversation an hour ago
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hahhahaa
  
  exactly
  
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not related to Roddy McDowell in any way, shape, or form
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Disturbiaposted 14 years ago
I believe what you are talking about is the theory that humans have a COMMON ANCESTOR with apes, not that we actually came from them.

But we all know that's just unbridled ignorance don't we, because man came from a mound of dirt and woman came from his rib.

For the life of me, I just can't figure out which sounds more ignorant...
common ancestor of a native species with which we share approx 99% similar DNA, or a mound of dirt?... DNA evidence... or dirt? This is a tough choice.

Maybe we can think outside the book for a minute... why not put an end to this neverending debate and just accept that evolution is nothing more than a tool of the creator.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This has been pointed out to her many times. Science says one thing, her favorite TV evangelist says something different. Science loses.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with Disturbia that common ancestors makes more sense than ancient mound of dirt.
  
  It has been pointed out by me numerous times that there are Christians out there who claim to believe in the theory of evolution and see no real conflict between their faith and this branch of science.
  
  DNA testing wasn't around when Darwin came up with his theory. It is really something though that this testing plus other science which has come about since his death tends to prove that he really was onto something.
  
  The idea that evolution is the tool of the creator sits well with a lot of people but not with creationists ands it never will. Hell in the Bible belt in the USA there's a so called museum dedicated to Noah's ark in which you have statutes of dinosaurs. Plus you have the nonsense continually propagated by the ignorant that the world is a lot younger than most scientists claim. Got to see this crazy museum some day. Maybe better than Disneyland.
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where's this museum?
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Andrew Denton did a special for the ABC. God on My Side (2006).
  
  But only at the Creation Museum in Kentucky do the dinosaurs sail on the ship -- Noah's Ark, to be precise.
  
  The Christian creators of the sprawling museum, unveiled on Saturday, hope to draw as many as half a million people each year to their state-of-the-art project, which depicts the Bible's first book, Genesis, as literal truth.
  
  There you go. Noah's ark with two T-Rex passengers.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We just found over 1 million artefacts in one site in Australia that are 40,000 years old. Not the first find of it's type, but they do date human activity pretty well. Mainly tools and utensils.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
How would one explain the fact that some of my part girlfriends have clearly come from the cougar family?

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  Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I could believe that sooner than I could believe in a mound of dirt and a rib.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i also went out with a dirty girl who was all rib cage
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Can homo sapien sapiens (us) have derived from common ancestors as other creatures?

I don't see any reason why not. I have seen no evidence to illustrate that everything just "showed up"...

I don't understand why it is hard for people to see themselves as related and connected to life around them....I find it to be a greatly unifying and empowering concept..

I compare those who view humanity as "holier than other creatures" the same as those who view their ethnicity or "race" (a figment of human imagination itself) as superior and unrelated to other humans...

Dumb and dumber...which is which is dependent on the specific case in point..

Human, Bonobo, Orangutan or cat...we all share enormous commonality...we are all related children of this earth.

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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cue the sickeningly sweet background music...
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
Um.

I know I'm just adding fuel to the fire here...but, uh...is it possible that maybe "dust of the earth" is a metaphor for atoms and molecules...i.e., carbon and such?

I mean...I'm not old enough to have been there to see what happened...so I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know what the hell happened.

I don't think science and religion have to be at odds.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i was there
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Damn, you're looking well to be that old! Why don't you fill us in on how it all went down?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i was kinda intoxicated at the time...
  
  i do recall that I was trying to create my own 'big bang' with a sexy elk (choices for mates were limited at the time),that had nothing to do with the creation of the universe
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rot! If there was wine and a sexy elk the universe already WAS created! *grumble grumble*
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh yeah.. sorry..i was talking about last week... man I drank too much
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO Safe to assume you're a friend of Bacchus, eh?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  is she hot?
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL HE is smokin'. Especially once the vino gets going. He's got the best, you know.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  personality?
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh definitely a vibrant, fun-lovin' guy (except the day AFTER)...The ULTIMATE personality. There's an enormous party named after him even.
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Dust of the earth" as a metaphor for atoms and molecules... for some reason I doubt it, since the authors of the Book of Genesis didn't know that atoms and molecules existed.
  
  I don't think science and religion *have* to be at odds, either. But they are, insofar as religion claims something that science does not confirm.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm sure they wouldn't have known how we call them and such...but is it possible that they might have at least considered that there was some tiny building block of life of which they were comprised? There are other instances in the OT that show that the ancient Hebrews might not have been as stupid as people give them credit for being...they just didn't have the same terminology as we do today.
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, anything is *possible* but it's not very likely, because the creation story in the OT bears an uncanny resemblance to countless other creation myths of the time in other religions--Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Greek mythology, etc. They all described the creation of humans in the same kinds of simple terms--from dust, from a tree, from the ocean, or whatever.
  
  The general character of the social and political order of the ancient Hebrews indicates they were, in fact, quite backward. Doesn't mean they couldn't get lucky once in a while in explaining something.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So...you're calling the ancient Hebrews backwards... but "dust" "tree" and "water" all get lumped in the same category? Interesting.
  
  I mean, I'm with you there on the similarity of the stories...but don't you think the WAYS that the stories are different might have some kind of importance?
  
  I'm not saying it's the end-all, be-all story...I'm just saying that perhaps some people are a little narrow-minded when it comes to their interpretations of these things.
  
  The ancient Hebrews certainly lived a different lifestyle, of necessity, but I've never been able to think of them as backwards: apparently they had quite a few useful skills for the time, had an extensive knowledge of natural medicine for the time, and they even knew the earth was round and suspended in space.
  
  Has it ever occurred to you how strange and "backwards" it is to talk to someone who isn't there with you? And yet we all do it every day on the telephone and on the computer. I just think it's interesting to try to understand what they were thinking back then. I think it's interesting how so many people equate "ancient" with "backwards" and "stupid" and "primitive."
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the Hebrews had plenty of technology and advances "for the time"... as did many other societies from China to India to Greece to Africa.
  
  All societies of the time were backward because they treated women as commodities to be bought and sold, tortured and killed people if they followed a different religion, held racist and xenophobic views of other people, etc... all of this is demonstrated in the Old Testament.
  
  The Hebrews were not unique. But why someone would give more authority to the Hebrew creation story as opposed to, say, the Hindu creation story or the ancient Japanese creation story escapes me. Yes, they were smart "for the time," but the time was pretty dumb.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL @ the time was pretty dumb...I like that...although I'm not sure it's the best way to express it.
  
  I'm not giving any particular importance to this story over the others...I'm simply discussing the ancient Hebrew story because it seems to be the one of interest in this thread. I do agree with you, the similarities are uncanny...but I also DO believe that the differences between the cultures' stories are important.
  
  "dust of the earth" has always been of particular interest to me, because I think it stands out from the "trees" "ocean" "body of the fallen god" "rocks thrown out behind you" tales. Those are just my thoughts on it. I certainly don't claim to have an answer...LOL
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  haha, too Tom Friedman-esque of me?
  
  I personally don't find the "dust of the earth" particularly interesting because, let's face it, amongst all the countless human communities of the time, and given the huge human imagination, and the religious diversity thereof, *somebody* *somewhere* was bound to produce something slightly less ridiculous.
  
  Especially when you consider some African creation myths where the creator vomited the world into existence or, another one where the creator masturbated and ejaculated the world into existence--I kid you not!
  
  Also, note that if a belief system said humans came from the sea, THAT would be pretty spot on, according to modern science! So I would be careful with that...
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL @ Tom Friedman-esque.
  
  Oh I love creation stories...I'm familiar with some of what you mention (not familiar with the vomit one though...whose is that?)
  
  Interestingly enough, in one of the creation stories in the OT, life DOES INDEED begin in the ocean...God creates oceanic life before life on land.
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be Bumba vomiting the world, of the Bushongo in central Africa:
  
  http://www.answers.com/topic/bumba-vomi … e-universe
  
  Given the amount of pain and suffering that debates between atheists and creationists induce, maybe the vomiting one is the most accurate!
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO...you might be right about that...although, it doesn't *have* to be that way IMO...We can disagree and still be friends, right?
  
  Thanks for the link!
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  secularist10posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I think so... if people would learn to focus on the issues and the substance, instead of making personal attacks, we would all be better off, no doubt about that... enjoy the story of vomit
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I absolutely agree!
  
  And I do indeed intend to enjoy the vomit story...but for now I've got to peel myself away and get some more work finished...
  
  It's been good to "meet" you though! It's a little late, but, Welcome to HP!
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  Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't believe science and religion have to be at odds either. I think they should work together for the betterment of mankind, not against each other to cause discord.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well if we start to decipher emotions from science perspective then we'll end up being Nihilist. And if we neglect science for the sake of slowing down or to live by faith then we're back to medieval age. Those who are aware of "Cognitive dissonance" know how to move ahead of this science vs religion puzzle.
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skyfireposted 14 years ago
Okay, Where is thread starter BTW
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Got me. *shrugs*
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well she is taking liberals seriously i think
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She is taking everything seriously, I think.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lol.
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Jeff Berndtposted 14 years ago
This thread sure has been amusing...
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We're so happy we could be of service, Mr. Chuckles. Anything to add to the conversation?
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  Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just my applause, I guess. It was pretty clear to me that the person who started the thread wasn't interested in discussion and just wanted to rant. (And hey, that's cool.) But it sparked several fun-to-read exchanges, and several folks have posted some really witty things. I wasn't being sarcastic, but sincere: this thread sure has been amusing.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hear it...I wasn't really trying to be sarcastic either...but I've found I have a bad habit of...just sort of coming off that way. Sorry.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
Damn! I don't believe I left the barn doors open again! C'mon liberals back in your stalls, I have tax money for you!
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SparklingJewelposted 14 years ago
...how could anyone believe that the Creator could not create such a magnificent creation...let alone, that there was not a Creator?

part of that Creation was the intelligence to create...man was created "...a little less than the angels.." with the purpose to create and understand the creation...and have "wise dominion" over creation

I believe there is confusion with evolution...souls evolve according to God's plan...humanity has a soul, animals do not have a soul like humanity's. humans could not have evolved out of animals. Someone created the concept of evolution of humanity out of animals...that is ultimate confusion of the concept of an evolving human soul.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
The KJV is full of thousands (perhaps 20,000) errors and mistakes in translation that COMPLETELY ALTER its meaning. It is generally considered by scholars to be one of the most erroneous translations of the Bible. It is imperative to read it with a Strong's Concordance handy or find a different Bible.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
It has little to do with Shakespearean or modern English, and everything to do with people who EITHER didn't understand the original languages (and thus could not express the ideas properly in English) OR who DID understand the concepts but changed them for their own reasons.

See the problems caused by a simple mistake like using the word "day" instead of "age" or "period of time" in Genesis. People actually think the book says that the world was created in 6 24 hour days rather than in 6 AGES. *sigh*
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. I do believe that.
  Otherwise, the "days" of the week wouldn't even be relevant, etc.
  I do understand, of course, that God's "timetable" over-all is not the same as humans'. But if one is to believe that it took so long to create the earth, etc., it would point toward "evolution" in effect. And indeed the God I know is not one who has to stop and think about what He's doing; He is the One Who has all Power at His disposal, thousands+ of angels at His command, and Who with one word can create or uncreate whatever He wants to.
  
  P.S. I do use the Strong's Concordance, mostly for references, not so much for the language translations.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
*facepalm* I've got to stay out of here.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
Once must read Scripture in it's original Greek format to understand the full meaning.

I would be happy to translate
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmm....
  I think it's more along the lines of Hebrew that I'd trust.....
  
  IF I trusted ANY modern translator...
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, you do know that the original written versions where written in the koine form of the Greek language, right? A simple Google search will tell you that
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are talking about the NT here right. The OT (obviously, perhaps?) was written in Hebrew
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, for sure the NT...
  
  We were still very much into Zeus before that
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about Plato?!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what about him?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He had some pretty freaky ideas about God
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you eat olives all day and see what you come up with
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  Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, if English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me!
  
  (I wish I could remember the name of the politician who said that...)
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sarah Palin
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The New Testament was not written in Hebrew, it was written in Greek. But its authors were not in general eye-witnesses to all events in any case, so ultimately even the original stories, sayings and teachings (ie as written in the original Greek) could theoretically have been distorted in some sense.. certainly in the same sense that a Greek text might get distorted in some way on its way to English
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was there so I can confirm and inconsistencies for you
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  teehee.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Also Adsense Strategies there were documents left out of the New Testament because they conflicted in some way with Catholic belief. There were also bits and pieces added to authentic documents to make said documents fall more in line with the religious politics of the day. Hence the New Testament went it was released was geared to a particular audience and to the ideas and ideals of a particular church. In other words manipulations if not distortions were there from the start.
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  Will Apseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No one should ever imagine that when they read the Bible they are understanding what is written in the way the authors intended. The time and culture that produced the Bible is long gone. The real value of the bible and also things like the works of Shakespeare, Greek Myths etc is that they have universal themes and are rich enough texts to trigger profound reflection. Anyone trying a literal reading of the Bible is wasting the opportunity that it offers.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point Will Apse. We can barely relate to the culture that created the Bible. History gives us some insights and so does archaeology. We know that the roman emperor who gave his stamp of approval on Christianity had previously had his wife and son murdered. He started a new family but that's not really the point. He was ruthless and basically saw Christianity if properly managed as a way of cementing his rule over his empire. And this is the person who approved of plans for the way Christianity was to be for at least the next two thousand or so years after his death.
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Rod Marsdenposted 14 years ago
So we are back to the monkey trial and to trying to give the boot to Darwin...Creationists strike again. Nope. Don't let real science get in the way. Don't let modern DNA testing that tends to prove the validity of evolution theory stop you. Let's be truly arrogant and ignorant. Hey there are even Christians that believe in the bible and in evolution and can see how science and religion don't necessarily have to clash. But let's not bother with them. To the caves and fortresses! Back to bronze age thinking! It's only the future we'd be chucking away along with common sense.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
When we trust the spirit to guide us in our understanding of scripture; ... How do we know that it is not a lieing Spirit????
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You tithe as sort of an insurance policy.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK so can I still morgage my house and buy Indulgences and a free pass into heaven as was common practine in the 13 or 14 century???
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just kidding...
  
  But for all that just simply listens to the spirit that leads them.. How do we know what Spirit we are led by?
  This would have to be one of the decievers many tricks? Yes ?
  
  I think that the word "Interpretating" the word of God would be apply in this situation.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Martin Luther didn't care much for those indulgences. I would like to have one though because now they would have historic value. Great way the church had for making money. It ended in tears though and the protestant revolution. The pope of the day, though, was one of the nastier and more self indulgent of popes. He was also known to molest children. Maybe he should have written out an indulgence for himself.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, in my response to Brenda, I just meant that this was at least logical... I mean, if you are going to be filled with the Holy Spirit an' all, then I guess in a way it is less important which version of the Bible you are reading... because you've got a guy helping you... But, obviously, one has to believe in a Holy Spirit in the first place to accept this idea. I just thought I'd acknowledge the logic of the statement within the worldview she holds.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that we may have been having something close to the same idea.
  I can believe in the Holy Spirit, but in doing so I would have to also believe in A lieing spirit.
  I "try" to keep an open mind. Never did believe in a
  EITHER-OR THE OTHERconcept. I want my bread buttered on both sides if possible.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in the Holy Spirit. But Brenda does, and THIS time at least , her logic made sense to me (assuming there is a Holy Spirit, which is, I guess, disprovable/unprovable either way)
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmm
  I consider that a small miracle, to say the least! ha
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...Just simplify it all and assume we are all "holy" in our own right to exist. Plus, this would cut out on all the reading, preaching, propaganda, arguments, debates, and turmoil about religious matters, etc. Besides, it might actually save a few trees, bullets, bombs, and shovels.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First of all, the moment we get saved, the Holy Spirit is within us.
  Secondly, we can go to the Word and find out how to test the spirits. The Word says that every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God, and those which do not are not of God. Meaning that gnosticism and any other unChristian spirits are not really of God. Any other religion can be tested that way----if it honors Christ as the God that He is and follows Biblical principles/interpretations/doctrine, etc., it is true; if not, it's a false teaching and is antiChrist, as the verses following that in 1John tells us. Christianity is about Christ. Christ is about God, for He is God and was THE manifestation of God in the flesh.
  There is no other Holy Spirit, no other true God than the God of Christians, the God of/as Jesus Christ.
  
  So, all other religions fail the test, period..
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've got a question for you, Brenda, just out of curiosity:
  I have read before, in the past, that Christianity didn't reach Greenland until year 1000 A.D. Christianity was legalized somewhere around year 314, 315; not sure of the actual date.
  Now, is that a good thousand years of burning, or at least 700 hundred years where everybody in Greenland was destined to torment in the inferno of Christian hell, or was that a period of years & years of free spirited existence? Just wondering, since I'm still learning about this Jesus-type stuff that so often involves death, chaos, love, hate, and madness...
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how the hell are you supposed to sin in Greenland?
  
  What can you do, covet your neighbor's igloo??
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  haha, I just interrupted everybody in the university library with my laugher
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You totally missed the point; and I mean totally! Greenland didn't accept Jesus because they never heard of him - during that time frame. It was a "hell joke"... Which side are you on? I didn't know, until just now, Greek One is a Christian! LOL! Dang bro, don't ya suppose to be kneeling before a statue of Zeus or something, before & after each thunderbolt of adultery? Ha-ha!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am a Christian,...
  
  but I am also a proud Greenlander and you have insulted my religion AND my people.
  
  As soon as we get an airport, I am going to find out where you live and kick ur a$$ (after the ice harvest season is over)
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you enjoy the feel of cold, razor-sharp, Ninja swords that shall permeate, pervade, and penetrate your precious, religious planet of Uranus! Ha-ha!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what the hell does married life have to do with this topic?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm trying to promote the age of unbridled freedom here, ya know, back when we could have sex with anything we wanted to! Call it the "caveman era" if you wish, fellow gregarious Greek one...
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i call it my 20s
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dang, you died early, huh?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You must be married; I'm not. Ha-ha!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  take heed my friend
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  megs78posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  funny you bring this up. i actually was confused about this as well and sought out some knowledgeable people to clarify, just to be clear.
  
  the short answer was that those people actually did believe in higher powers, but it was not necessarily god or whatever. but the answer was that since they believed in something higher than themselves, it was enough. don't know if any of this is true, its just a theory.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  isnt that one of the 12 steps in the Alcohol Recovery?
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, step 3: We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  
  You probably thought of the 12-step program because of the term "higher-power" which I believe was coined there to make it appear non-religious. I've been to several meetings (NA) myself to support my mother, and it doesn't do a very good job at making it secular. Although I did find it interesting the overwhelming number of individuals in the program that had turned to Buddhism when entering the program - my mother was one of them.
  
  The steps are the same in Narcotics Anonymous as well.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Jerami,
you said you want your bread buttered on both sides.
I believe you want to straddle that slippery fence.
You can't have it both ways. You'll slide off into the abyss of confusion, if you haven't already.....
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Concerning my bread being buttered on both sides;
  And not "always" believing that it has to be Either-OR ...?
  
  I do not have a problem with ... In the beginning ..
  The spirit of God moving upon the face of the waters and Life abounds and evolves.
  THEN after the earth settles down and similar life forms to MAN finds the conditions compatible; Man is then created. Thus the missing link is explained.
  Wa La .. bread buttered on both sides.
  
  I personally think that when/if a person is truly filled with the Holy Ghost the "need for HELP" in understanding scripture would be negated cause you would already have the word of God within you. When the truth is within there is no need for any outside force to "Interpret" the word of God.
  You will not know how ya know, ya just know.
  For almost 2000 years Humanity has been taught to trust their interpretations of the word of God. False teachings!!!
  When we can learn how to cleans our mind from these interpretations; our understanding will be as clear as the sun coming up in the morning.
  I admitt; that is just one of hundreds of opinions.
  I believe this, I don't know why I believe it, I just do.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Hi friends

The Creator- God Allah YHWH, created everything by his intelligent design; which may be called a natural evolution.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, it didn't occur to you in the slightest that those are two completely different concepts?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Beelzedad
  
  It is your confusion which makes it two; it is naturally evolved creation, in fact.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, you are usmanali81, Did the free masons catch the paranoid sock puppet?
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this one another side of the TKSensie/Sab Oh/ Padrino thingy, you never know - it might have a sense of humour
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think these sock puppets have a sense of humour do they? Never spotted one.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
True evolution is a theory. Theories can be tested though.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God can also be put to the test. You just have to have the right motives.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Had the motives, did the tests, no god. Even the lack of evidence did not worry me when indoctrinated into christianity which I was as deeply involved in as any religionist.
  
  No, I read, learned and did what we should all do. Changed my mind in light of better information.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will venture to say that your motives were not right. But that it merely my own opinion.
  
  Many want proof for selfish reasons only. They don't really want to know God.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I did. A full blown evangelistic christian like yourself for over 3 years.
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The Paulposted 14 years ago
Evolution as fact is a collection of observations... The history of earth's biology is billions of years long, it once held animals that no longer exist, and animals that currently exist did not exist earlier in earth's history. Traits are passed down between generations of creatures, the attributes of populations can change over time.

These aren't theories, they're things we see. Like how when we drop something it falls.

The theory of evolution is a theory that explains and threads together these explanations. Like how gravitons might be responsible for gravity.

But whether or not gravity is accounted for by gravitons, things still fall when you drop them.
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The age of unbridled ignorance??

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The age of unbridled ignorance??

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