Could we please stop the Insanity?

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Bubbooposted 14 years ago
A good definition of insanity is to continue doing the same act over and over, while expecting a different result each time. The believers will not ( can not ) change the minds of the non-believers. And visa versa. So why is there so much time spent on the subject of God and religion? I don't understand why atheist are the most active on the "Christian" forums but they say they are tired of having it crammed down their throat. Would you go to a strip club and tell them you are tired of the stripping? (rhetorical question of course) And why do the "Christians" continue to argue with the atheists? I have read some posts by some of the more active atheists and they think religion is the biggest problem in this world. Well..... I disagree. "Hate" and "greed" are the 2 biggest problems in this world and I see plenty of "hate" from both sides. We will never agree on everything but we can all agree on somethings. Love is better than hate, so if we all showed more love and less hate we might could make a difference in this world. I'm just sayin'
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  WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You'll just be joining their insanity if you keep telling them to stop. Just do what the rest of us do and leave the people in the political and religious forums to argue by themselves while we have fun in the other forums!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no god required for understanding life.
  There is no god required for living said life.
  
  Be responsible about your actions and accept those who have to live around you. Plain and simple really.
  
  It's the foolish and irrational ignorant religious folk, who continue to spout their beliefs as though they are truths to be known. That is what creates conflict.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you just spout your beliefs as though they are truths to be known. That is what creates conflict.
  
  Just kidding
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Jerami, I did not just spout my beliefs.
  
  It's not a belief I hold to be true. It's a known fact.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wasn't wanting to argue, But them other people say the same thing. They believe what they say to be known fact.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a belief. What part do you not understand?
  
  Life does not need to have a belief in a god to be understood.
  
  Life also does not need to have a belief in a god to be lived.
  
  Fact!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And a piece of Cake doesn't have to have icing on top.
  
  A bologna sandwich don't have to have mustard on it, or mayonase either for that matter.
  
  We can live life and believe in a God.. Don't gotta.
  
  There is a thousand reasons for war and conflict. Yea some folks use religion as their excuse.
  
  Again a belief in a God is OK. There are so many diffrent religions that, that cain't be right.
  
  I wish the confusion would end too.
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, There is no God required for understanding or living said life for you and I. Christians are simply admitting to a handicap in this department. They admit they don't posess the internal fortitude to live a decent, productive and enjoyable life with out the security blanket they call God. Seen in that light christianity could be classified as a phobea and possibly controlled or cured with medication. Two little yellow NO-GODS pills with your morning coffee and you will live a normal and happy life free of superstitions. The green 10mg dose is available for the former evangelicals.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stump you are pretty close. Have you seen a religionist with some MDMA on board?
  
  Ping! No religion! Seen it twice now at E parties.
  
  As soon as the fear button in the mid brain shuts down, so does god apparently!
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  earnest, LOL as I had to look up what MDMA was. That makes perfect sense to me although I was unaware that ecstasy actually shut down the fear trigger. I find it interesting that religious adherance might be monitored by the portion of the brain that controls fear.
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  Rain Stopperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (sorry, kinda long answer)
  I hear what you're saying. But I think that what're really in play here are emotions and a sense of a mission.
  I heard a guy on the radio the other day say, "When asked if there's anything better than going to heaven, most people say 'no'. But I say 'yes. The one thing that's better than going to heaven is bringing somebody there with you'." So in the same way that we (Christians) believe in the urgency of introducing people to Jesus, the only one who can save them from death, sin, hell, loneliness, etc., AND the only way into Heaven, atheists believe in the urgency to "save" people from...(foolishness?) believing in a God that they refuse to believe exists, and so we often clash heads.
  
  Will either make the other change their stance? Many atheists who have given into curiosity and research have in fact changed their stances, such as Lee Strobel, for example. In fact, many of us who know and love the Lord today were once atheists (or agnostics), and are no longer because other Christians shared with us what they knew about Jesus, or answered questions. But then, a lot of Christians have also changed stances when faced with questions they can't answer and believe need to know. So yeah, it's possible. Either way though, I like you're suggestion of love in the sense of how we carry out our discussions, for even Peter tells us that if somebody asks us (Christians) a question about Jesus and our joy, we're to answer with love. Although I also believe we (each) need to show respect to the answers and feelings behind the answers given, and not take offense (nor give it) when we don’t agree.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Rain Stopper, great answer.
  When I say we can not change the minds of the un-believers I am referring to being drawn to repentance. That must be done by the Holy Spirit. We are told to Go and tell the Good News, plant the seed, but we do not bear the responsibility of changing their hearts. While planting the seed does not include arguing and mud slinging. I see that you understand this but there maybe some who do not. I used to think that it was my job to "convince others" and it was very stressful. Life is much easier now that I have seen that it is not my job. And you are so right, the one thing better than going to Heaven is bringing someone with you. I heard a preacher say he had asked a man "What could be better than being saved?" The man replied, " Having a personal relationship with the One who saved me." Amen to that.
  May God bless you always
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLO
  
  So - you start a thread to ask why there are arguments and end up preaching your nonsense.
  
  What you really should have asked is - "Why can't these non believers leave us alone! Waaaaah!"
  
  This is my main issue with your nonsensical belief system - you are all so dishonest. It actively teaches you to be liars. You lied when you started this thread - and now you are preaching - sorry - agreeing with some one else's "testimony."
  
  I have some really good news - I do not need to repent. I am not a sinner. Your heaven does not exist. Your invisible super being does not exist.
  
  You are not qualified or capable to teach me anything.
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  WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok yep you know the thread has turned into a true religious argument thread when Mark arrives.
  
  (not that I don't think your posts are awesome Mark)
  
  But pot stirring much?
  
  *Sits and watches*
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Mark
  I was not trying to teach you anything , nor was I preaching my nonsense. I was conversing with another believer and it had nothing to do with you. I think I directed my comments to Rain Stopper. Are you saying that I have lost all my rights to even converse with other believers. When will the hate stop? I have not once insulted you ,or what you believe, or don't believe in any way. Why do you feel the need to sling your hateful remarks toward all believers, while I have not slung any remarks toward you? Just wondering
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are my remarks hateful? I just pointed out what a dishonest belief system you adhere to.
  
  Just a few remarks ago - you " surrendered."
  
  Now you are accusing me of "slinging hateful remarks towards believers."
  
  Can I not express my opinion of your ridiculous religion? And why would you take that as a personal insult exactly? Your beliefs are garbage and not deserving of respect. Have you read your babble? DO you know what it says about non believers?
  
  When will the hate stop indeed? When will you stop spreading the nonsense? You tell me. Oh - you mean the two of you sharing a "private" conversation on a public forum is not spreading The Nonsense.
  
  LOLOL - You know how many believers start threads inviting other people to converse and it degenerates into a dishonest attempt to share the Nonsense ?
  
  Just like this one did.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are my remarks hateful?
  
  ridiculous
  garbage
  babble
  
  Could you not make your point without these insulting remarks? And I never said the conversation was private, I simply said it was not directed toward you.
  
  These hateful remarks will never solve anything and I have not tried to tell you anything about what I believe. If you choose not to believe then I can respect that and I will never tell try to convince you other wise.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is my point in a nut shell.
  Atheist say that when a believer is asked "How can you prove God exist?" and the believer responds with (in a sense) "Because God said He does" that this is nonsense. Well, I can see your point. I don't understand, however, why you think we should start believing He does not exist because Mark said so.
  Point of this thread: Why do we (both sides) think that all the insults and hate will make the other side change their minds? It will not, and yet we still do not have Peace on Earth.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you on this site, booboo? Is it your intention to spread the gospel on these forums? To converse with others of the same mindset? To take up the crusade of your fellow believers, or what? You are even allowed to write a hub about what you are seeking here you know. Who knows, you may even get a bit of respect from a few here if you do so.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure why I'm on this site. I have not really tried to spread the Gospel because everyone here has already heard it. I am not trying to change the minds of those who say God does not exist because I can't. I'm certainly not looking for respect because if I wanted that I am definitely at the wrong place. I just wonder why we all (at least most people)say we want peace on Earth but we all (at least most people) are doing everything we can to see to it that it does not happen.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How is it "hateful" to make fun of a book? Your beliefs are nonsense and your book is garbage. And it attacks others.
  
  'A fool has said in his heart "there is no god"'
  
  So - your bible attacks others and calls them fools. This is acceptable - because it is the word of god. Right?
  
  And are a hypocrite:
  
  “A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult”
  
  So - what is your point again? That it is all the fault of the atheists for responding to your attacks? Not interested in your get out clause that you are just the messenger and god seddit - you did not.
  
  I genuinely do not understand why you think your beliefs should be respected in any way. I have no respect for the teachings in your book. It teaches you to be a liar, not to think for your self, and that you are superior to all who do not believe.
  
  Why should I respect this exactly?
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Mark,
  
  Who did I attack?
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did I ever say that it is all the fault of the atheist? I don't think so. I said we are all to blame. You must have me confused with someone else.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your book attacks and you subscribe to the babble do you not? You are happy to spread the word of god are you not?
  
  Accusing some one of being hateful is not an attack though? OK
  
  Still -if you have a synonym for "nonsense" that I can use that you will not take as a personal insult - I am open to using that instead.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure you know many more synonyms than I. And that is not an insult toward your insults. You seem to be a well educated man.
  
  My original post was directed toward both sides because of the hurtful ( maybe that would be a better word) comments and insults toward each other. My belief or non belief in God was never mentioned.
  
  If some one slaps me in the face then it is not an accusation if I say that the person slapped me in the face. The words that I mentioned in an earlier comment of yours, would rarely ever be taken as a compliment by anyone.
  I'm simply saying that we should all take some responsibility for our actions.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please stop lying at me. It insults my intelligence and makes it plain that you have no respect for me. You are just here to spread your religious garbage. That is all.
  
  This is what your profile states - which I looked at before responding to you:
  
  And that is all it says.
  
  This is why I despise your nonsensical religion - it produces liars who's sole intention is to spread their religious - no offense - garbage. Honestly - do not treat me like an idiot and lie to me - and I might consider showing you some respect.
  
  Until that time - your behavior is going to continue to cause fights because I am not prepared - which is what you really want - to shut up and let you spread your nonsense without me saying something. Which is what this thread is really all about - you have made it clear your goal is to share Jesus with others - what you really want is to do it without people speaking against it.
  
  Sorry - I am going to continue to be "hateful" by pointing out that the illogical, irrational nonsense you believe, and your desperate need to "share" it - is the root cause of this particular conflict.
  
  Until you respect others people by keeping your beliefs in your head - where they belong - you are going to cause conflict.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What book have you read? The book that I read does not teach me any of those things. I am not superior to anyone nor do I think I am. I have respected the fact that you are tired of that "nonsense" being shoved in your face so therefore I have left that out of the equation. You on the other hand seem to think it is the equation. All of your comments are given with the sole purpose of offending someone. I have intentionally left God out of my comments and yet you still insult me for my beliefs. I have not insulted you for your non-belief not one time.These are the kind of actions that I am speaking of. Not trying to offend you but you insist on " not" trying to promote peace.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See my post above.
  Please stop insulting my intelligence.
  
  Thanks.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize if you feel I am trying to insult your intelligence. Again, I know that you are an intelligent man.
  
  Maybe I was not clear in my original post. I feel we should all stop arguing about God and talk about pancakes or something. I do not want to speak my side while the other side sits quietly and listens. You have heard of Jesus so therefore I'm not obligated to nor will I try to change your mind or anyone else's mind, because I can't. I'm simply saying that all the arguing from both sides are not getting us any closer to world peace. Which we say we all would like to see. Just because others have turned this into a religious debate does not mean that was MY intentions.
  
  Again , I apologize for any misunderstanding.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no misunderstanding on my part - you are insulting my intelligence right now.
  
  I read your profile page and the one single thing you say on your profile page is that you are a born again Christian who loves to share about Jesus.
  
  I agree that you should change that if you want to "stop arguing about god."
  
  Seriously - just how stupid so you think I am?
  
  Or maybe I am mistaken and is it that you genuinely do not understand that by writing that as the single solitary piece of personal information on your otherwise blank profile page you are "talking about god," and drawing demarcation lines?
  
  Do you not understand that?
  
  Maybe that is the misunderstanding? You seem also intelligent - do you just not get this?
  
  I agree - keep your religion to yourself, stop "sharing jesus" and there is one less source of conflict. I mean - seriously - read a few history books. Do you not see that your religion has been the cause, basis or excuse for numerous conflicts since its inception - and still is?
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I read your profile page and the one single thing you say on your profile page is that you are a born again Christian who loves to share about Jesus.
  
  My profile says that I am a born again 'believer" not Christian. When I say I like to share Jesus with others I am speaking in general. We can show love with out saying a word. Share with those who are interested but I can still show love and peace to those who are not. That book that you refer to does not tell me that I must force everyone to believe the same way that I do. My profile has nothing to do with this post. You say you do not believe. You say it is nonsense. OK Then what about those pancakes.
  
  Again I am not trying to insult your intelligence.
  
  I would really rather discuss pancakes.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLO
  
  Just not going to listen to me are you? Not going to get it - ever - do not care that you will always be the cause of the conflict s and insanity you complain about.
  
  This is what I get from you.
  
  "Hey there - I am a born again believer (not a christian - in fact - I will argue with you if you say my profile says I am a born again christian and be sure to contradict you if you say so) and I love to share Jesus.
  
  How about that insanity of fighting over religion?
  
  Lets talk about pancakes instead now I have made sure you know that I like to share Jesus and am a born again believer (not a christian). Born again is not a christian thing - lots of born again believers come from other religions.
  
  And - this thread has nothing to do with that - I have not mentioned god except where I blessed another believer in god's name (I speak for god) for agreeing with me and told him that 'the one thing better than going to Heaven is bringing someone with you.'"
  
  No - no insulting of my intelligence there. You have not mentioned god and your babble is very respectful of non believers. What you have basically done is inserted your religious beliefs and asked no one to speak against them. Dishonest at best.
  
  I am on a no-carb diet at the moment. And if you want to talk about pancakes - try not starting the thread in the religion and philosophy forum.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Sounds like we just can't agree. Why don't you stick to the comments I have made toward you. I have respected you and your beliefs. Are you saying that you are forbidding me to discuss Jesus with someone who believes the same way that I do? If I ever mention Jesus to anyone else then does that mean I am insulting your intelligence? I am very capable of having a conversation with you without mentioning Jesus. And the purpose of this thread, again, was not to impose my beliefs in God. It was more toward PEACE ON EARTH. I may not be as smart as you, but I do not need you to tell me what my heart felt intentions were when I posted this thread. The reason it was posted on the religious forum is because that's where most of the mud slinging, that prevents any movement toward Peace On Earth, takes place.
  BTW Since you read my profile does that mean if you were ever in need and I offered to help you, would you refuse the help that I offer. Does that mean that you would never consider being my friend. Or, are you only friends with those who believe the way that you do. If we were friends and I had never mentioned Jesus to you and you came to my house and saw a Bible on the table would you stop being my friend. Just wondering
  My point is this, why does it matter to you what I say to someone else as long as I do not impose my beliefs on you?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me.
  
  Please stop defending your faith - which you made certain is the only thing you say on your profile. Guess you really are not able to understand what I am saying to you.
  
  #I will spell it out as simply as I can for you.
  
  Your
  religion
  is
  what
  causes
  the
  conflict.
  
  I am not trying to forbid you from doing anything. I am just explaining that this is what is at the root of the religious arguments.
  
  Your need to share jesus. You have not respected my beliefs. You clearly stated to another believer that you believe in heaven. I assume you believe in hell - and from your comment that the best way is to take some one with you - i.e. - convert them to your ridiculous belief system - how exactly is that respecting my beliefs?
  
  Just how on earth do you manage to convince yourself that persuading other people to accept the nonsense you believe is "respecting their beliefs"?
  
  How does that work?
  
  "Hey - I really respect your beliefs - but - you are going to burn in hell if you don't follow my belief system -but hey - god gave you free will to choose not to believe - it is only eternity in pain if you don't - your choice. Did I mention I really respect your beliefs? Even though I just completely dismissed them as wrong."
  
  PEACE ON EARTH? Never while you are sharing your ridiculous, judgmental religion. Never.
  
  Try reading a little history. What are you not understanding about that?
  
  Should I explain in more detail?
  
  "The reason it was posted on the religious forum is because that's where most of the mud slinging, that prevents any movement toward Peace On Earth, takes place."
  
  Stop spreading your religion - we stop fighting over it. Simple really. Clear?
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My apologies, I have obviously mistaken intelligence for just being a know-it-all.
  Since you have read my profile...........
  
  If I started a thread about a football game and never mention religion would you accuse me of trying to slip my beliefs in the Gatorade?
  I have read your profile and I see that your favorite topics are about food, but have I accused you of trying to cram pie down my throat? And the pancake thing was just a coincidence, I had not read your profile at that point. You clearly pile everyone with a belief in God all in the same boat. If I meet an atheist who likes to have sex with rabbits , is it fair for me to assume that you have the same habits? No that would not be fair. As I have stated before we are not reading the same book., because the book that I have read never told me to cram it down your throat so therefore I have not. You are the one who keeps on demanding that we discuss it. Just because I believe in Jesus does not mean I can not have a conversation with out discussing Him.
  
  Thank you and good day
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - the insults begin. You have not listened to a word I have said.
  
  You specifically asked some questions - I answered as best I could from my perspective as an atheist.
  
  I cannot give a definite answer from the believers perspective, but I would hazard a guess that the believers spend time arguing because in their hearts - they know their belief is nonsense and need validation from other people.
  
  You wanted to know whey there are atheists here and why they spend time arguing with believers.
  
  I told you why. Because people like you bring it up all the time. Your profile is evidence that that is all you are interested in.
  
  You also asked if there was a solution to this problem and said it would be better to share love instead of hate - I agreed and offered you a solution. You did not like that and insisted that you will still share Jesus wherever you go - despite this being the root of the argument.
  
  I don't know whether you would bring your ridiculous beliefs into a discussion about football. It wouldn't surprise me. apparently god spends his time making sure some ones kid gets to go to Disney land when they pray for it - so - probably.
  
  But - you did not start a discussion about football in the sports forum - you started a discussion in the religion section and asked the questions I mentioned.
  
  Apparently - you do not like the answers you got.
  
  LOL that you cannot tell the difference between me writing a recipe and you sharing your irrational beliefs in a deity who will punish me for not believing.
  
  Bye.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I cannot give a definite answer from the believers perspective, but I would hazard a guess that the believers spend time arguing because in their hearts - they know their belief is nonsense and need validation from other people.
  
  And how can this not be said about the atheist.
  
  You wanted to know whey there are atheists here and why they spend time arguing with believers.
  
  You have already accused me of blaming the atheist when I clearly did not.
  I have not argued about my specific beliefs with you, because I have not mentioned them. You also have not asked. Like I said, if you are not interested in my beliefs, I will not share them with you. And I'm sure you would be surprised at what I believe
  
  .Your profile is evidence that that is all you are interested in.
  
  Should I have written an Auto-Biography on my profile so you would know ALL of the things that interest me?
  You do not care to know what I believe, it is easier for you to assume that I am just like all the others who love to sling mud.
  Yet I still have not tried to convert you or anyone else.
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank GOD you are not armed!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  You're welcome.
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rain Stopper, as an atheist I personally am not trying to save you from anything. I have no problem with religion and I long for the day when more religious people find some. I am however determined to stop the accepted practice of passing laws that benefit or cater to the religious organizations at the expense of others.
  
  My interest in religion is primarily it's continued attempts to influence and control public laws and rights.
  
  The number of people that go from believing to not believing to not believing must present an occasional dilema for some. Imagine working to pass a law that directly affects the other side of the issue. Two weeks later your beliefs change and you have to explain all your hard work against your new best friends. I would like to be a fly on the wall of that rectory.
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  Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bubboo your Quote: "Would you go to a strip club and tell them you are tired of the stripping? (rhetorical question of course) And why do the "Christians" continue to argue with the atheists?"
  
  Made me chuckle. But it is so true. I used to be on Christian Chatrooms in myspace and the athiests loved arguing with Christians. God called us to keep peace, not argue and debate like we hate one another...I just pray for those who have differences and learned to embrace all...
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Lady, I am a recently joined from myspace and I spent a lot of time in the R7P blogs myself. What truly amazed me right before the entire site blew up, lol. was how visious the attacks on christians had gotten from other christians. There are some wacked out people running around preaching some crazy stuff in god's name. I actually followed some christians simply to watch them argue with their fellow christians. This is one thign I haven't noticed about atheists, All of our non-belief systems are pretty much the same. God doesn't exist to me in the same way he doesn't exist to an atheist on the west coast. Every single christian I have ever met had one or two personal interpretations of the bible that no one else had ever thought of before. How many different sects of christianity are there anyway?
  
  Pretty much one standard approach to not believing and this does tend to lend itself to consistancy of positions and thoughts among atheists. You put 10 chridstians in a room and leave them alone to discuss religion and in no time it's 5 on 5 in a knock down drag out death match.
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  Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lolololololool....Parrish,
  
  I know that to be true about Christians on Christian...Hummm...
  
  It makes no sense how they go at it with one another especially when God reveales to us all things according to our measures of faith. Once people understand that its not about us, and its all about God, we would all be working towards perfecting the church.
  
  And you are right, there are only a few people I can think of right now, that has revelations of the Bible that no one else has had. This is something that I have heard about myself for many years now and finally come to accept. For a long time, I felt there are others out there that should have this same revelation. But in truth, revelation only comes with relationship. The closer you get in God, the more revelations he reveals. This can be share among all those who chooses him.
  
  I hate the division in our Christianity. I am writing a book on this very subject and it is absolutely appalling how many denominations that are out there. Through my studies, it is apparent, that denominations are different doctrines taken from certain parts of the bible, to cater to a specific mass of people. What gets me is, they all attest their doctrine is the right one. I am all for bringing back the Church to its originality in Christ Jesus and the Apostles..
  
  To answer your question about how many sects are they, its well over 40 with may subdivision in each..
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  pythagarusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You make a classic error.... Which arises when people become rigid and confuse faith or truth for certainty. Even Christ had his moments of uncertainty - imagine! The moment this condition sets in, how could you, as did the Pharisees, possibly know which path you are on, except that you are certain it's the truth. You should be less concerned with atheists and more concerned with demonstrating that your actions comply with your principles and it may surprise you that atheist act with less hypocrisy than many so called Christians.
  Ps love is not better than hate, it is like hate...you live life at it's raw essence with either. But hate is, most often, destructive.... And therefore you may get your consensus, but you would be naive to think everyone
  has evidence to support love to be greater... Why don't you start there and let us know how it turns out for you..... Instead of this pathetic attempt at a claim that you know the way better than anyone else. Peace
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello pythagarus
  I have not claimed to know the way better than anyone else. Maybe I was wrong in thinking it was a universal consensus that love is better than hate. Even you said "But hate is, most often, destructive." Then wouldn't love be better?
  I also would not be surprised that atheist act with less hypocrisy than many so called Christians. Especially if we understand what it means to be a Hypocrite. We can't say we believe in God but then our actions don't follow suit. That would be a Hypocrite.
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  pythagarusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you did and you don't even recognize it. Why do you think Christ was nailed to a cross?
  But
  Thank you for responding.
  I get annoyed with the carelessness of believers who read a few verses and instantly have a phd in theology. Faith makes them right, no matter what their values are. And being right is really what it is about.
  
  ( We can't say we believe in God but then our actions don't follow suit. )
  Exactly my point - we can and many do.... It sucks, precisely because anyone at any stage of their life can say it.... But it is undeniable.... Believing in God does not make you a righteous human or a "Christian"... How many examples do you want of believers who's actions deviate from the principles of good conduct?
  IMO the question is not whether you believe but whether your life reflects your values... That is a much more interesting conversation....
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Being a Born Again atheist myself, I can say that I don't think religion is the biggest problem facing the world by any means. The biggest problem in the world today is the followers of these religions. Each group seems to take emense pride in their efforts to out twist the words of their chosen super dude in the sky. What passes for christianity today can be found no where in anyones bible. Christians have twisted the words of the bible into an unrecognizable mangled wreck of what was written. Islamic fundamentalists have their equal in the fundie game with the likes of the Army of God lunatics that swear they heard god tell them and only them to go forth and kill, kill, kill, christians to show his displease over all the killing being done. That sounds like an episode of the Munsters and Grandpa was play god to Herman's AOG soldier.
  
  Peace, good question and thought, thanks. I'm off to the comments.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bubboo, I say believe what you want and express your belief freely. Tell me all about your god, and why you think I'm a sinner. Tell me why you believe what you believe, and why you think I should live my life differently.
  
  It's not upsetting to me in any way. I can handle people believing things I might not agree with. I'm a grown up after all. I don't feel the need to throw a hissy fit because you have the nerve to believe something different to me, and the nerve to to tell others about it. That's your right as a human being (see UN Declaration of Human Rights, Article 18). So I won't cry about it, or be 'offended', or otherwise generally be a big girl's blouse about it.
  
  BUT I ask something in return.
  
  I ask that you don't discriminate or otherwise treat me unfairly in any domain of life because I don't share your beliefs. I ask you don't try to create laws to force me to live according to your beliefs. I ask that you behave in a way that doesn't cause unnecessary suffering. I ask that you don't try to force me to teach children to take everything in your sacred texts literally and disregard scientific understanding.
  
  You personally may not be responsible for any of those things. But the final thing I ask is that you use some of your energy to get others who share your beliefs to seriously reflect on the things I mention.
  
  If you can manage that, then pull up a chair, take the load off and let's talk about life, the universe and everything (actually it would be quicker to just say everything). There, no insanity required on either side.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you not a Muslim? Why couldn't someone who follows Islam change your mind? What are your reasons for not following Islam?
  
  Don't you think you just answered your own question?
  
  Good question. Strippers are not at my door telling me to how to live my life nor are they trying to impose their stripping on schools or homosexuals, amongst various other institutions and peoples.
  
  Ever hear of cause and effect? The cause is the evangelizing of Christ, the imposing of Christian beliefs on society; the effect is atheists who disagree those beliefs should be imposed on society. Notice you can't have an effect without a cause, first?
  
  Stop "sharing" Jesus, then.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Strippers are not at my door telling me to how to live my life.
  
  You obviously missed the point of that analogy.
  
  Neither am I. My point with that was simply this, Why come to a religious forum and get mad because some people are discussing eh........religion.
  Have you seen me on the atheist forums? No. I did not come there, you came here. Would you go to Pizza Hut and complain because they sell Pizza? There are many others that could be used but surely you can see my point by now. You are free to leave at any time. No one is making you stay.
  This how I see it, and I understand that I could be wrong.
  
  Believers come to a forum for believers to discuss believing. When a strong willed atheist shows up, who is sick of hearing it, we should all remain silent until that atheist leaves.
  
  Would life be better for you if it worked that way?
  I'm sure it would.
  
  And back to the point of the thread. Do we all, who say we want world peace, think that we will wake up one day and boom, here it is? We have to start somewhere. Why not here? In order to obtain this world peace we ALL must first change how we act toward each other, regardless of beliefs.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, do you expect us to remain silent about something we consider detrimental to our society? Do you do this concerning abortion, homosexuality,etc.?
  
  I firmly believe religion has held back scientific research as it has always done for hundreds of years, that it is the cause of many conflicts around the world and includes many deaths and destruction along the way.
  
  Therefore, I consider it my duty to rebel against such harmful teachings, just as you would do the same against what you would consider "un-christian like" behavior. Or in your case, "Un-Jesuslike" behavior.
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can respect that.
  
  My question now is this, would either one of us help someone in need regardless of there beliefs?
  
  I would and I'm sure you would to.
  The point of the thread is this, instead of both sides focusing on the problem and laying blame on the other, why don't we try to find a solution?
  The same-ole-same-ole obviously does not work.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, religion doesn't mean the difference in good and bad people!
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Trust me - when I see some one in need, I will not be asking their belief system before helping them. I am sure you would not either.
  
  I have a solution for you:
  
  Stop sharing your ridiculous beliefs and trying to find some one to take to heaven with you.
  
  I said this some time ago - but you just defended your right to share your beliefs. Which I do not argue against - you have the right to do as you please and express yourself as you see fit - but - your beliefs are always going to cause a fight.
  
  What do you not understand about that?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, you put forth an irrelevant analogy.
  
  Thank you, I'll take it under consideration that I am allowed to leave at any time. Am I allowed to do anything else?
  
  Most certainly, life would be a whole lot better if I didn't have to hear that I'm evil and will be barbecued in a lake of fire for an eternity. Can we have a go at that?
  
  I agree, when you will stop respecting others and stop sharing Jesus? That is exactly where we need to start.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stopping the madness requires you taking the first step and being responsible for yourself. STOP YOUR OWN MADNESS!!!!
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am a Christian as well as being modestly speaking, very intelligent and knowledgable. I refuse to try and stoop down to the level many atheists seem to have developed to, as they prove themselves time and time again nothing more than agitaters, getting their jollies from trying to tick off the Religious, especially the Christian.
  
  It is hard for a person with an IQ of 48, to get down to the level of someone with an IQ of possibly 10. Even monkeys seem smarter.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dave I reckon 48 is a bit low, even for the monkey!
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you imagine how much more difficult it is for a person with an IQ of 148 to get down to the level of 48?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  YES I CAN>
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You nailed it. Hate, greed, one-upmanship, smarter than, better than, all those appear in the religion and political forums.
  
  What's surprising is that believers are not supposed to engage in such things, and atheists are generally very moral based people, so why do they engage in it?
  
  Probably because it's additive and it's human nature.
  
  Evenso, I agree with afficianado. The right to express our opinions is very valuable, and I think it should be protected.
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Aficionadaposted 14 years ago
Good point, WryLilt.

I just read and commented in a similar forum thread started by someone else. I don't know if that means matters are hotter in the religious forums than usual (!!), or if these are just newer Hubbers who haven't learned to avoid them yet.

Anyway, Bubboo, I do agree with what you said about the atheists being the most active in the religious forums. [And I like your analogy with the strip club.] But even so, all of these forums are open to everyone, so it's basically just an exercise in free speech. Whew.
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Aficionadaposted 14 years ago
Goodness, Cagsil. It looks like you felt the need to prove Bubboo right, didn't you?

Good night. I hope your dreams are pleasant. I'm sure you will make them so.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove it right?
  
  No, just speaking what to me is common sense.
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
If religion was not so damaging to society and such a ridiculous threat to peace all over the world I would not feel the need to argue with morons who promote intolerance, bigotry and hate.

Peace love and jellybabies all round right
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about I keep my faith in God and throw religion out with the bath water?
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think faith in a god has ever hurt anyone other than the 'believer'. It is 'believers' uniting under some war banner or other that causes the problem. I respect your personal beliefs, as I respect Cagsil's personal beliefs, I object to any of it being used to whip up support to go and do anything with it. The idea that anything metaphysical can be right or wrong, good or bad, is patently ridiculous and I don't buy any of the b*****t in particular. I do have some respect for reasoned argument, preferably clear and unambiguous.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never did like a pack mentality myself either.
  
  Don't make much difference the species ??? Pack mentality does exist. I think science agrees with this statement.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am too often too quick to post to write everything that my busy little brain is thinking.
  
  I apreciate your comment and also respect your opinions that I have been able to keep up with.
  I respect Cagsils opinions though they sometimes come through as absolutes. I suppose mine do to at times. OOPS
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WryLiltposted 14 years ago
*Sits back with some panadol tablets and a drink and watches this discussion dissolve into another religious arguement*

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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess peace on earth just wasn't meant to be. And the argument continues on who is causing the conflict. The hateful believers or the hateful non-believers. I guess it is hard to choose.
  
  And how quickly things get off topic.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes that is a good thing..
  
  Off topic some more.
  
  Good night yaul goina go fall down on the bed.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

You people stop that right now!
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  WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LoL is that from Monty Python?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  No,I am not from "Monty Python".
  
  I am the alpha and the omega...I am the way..the truth...the light...and I'm trying to watch the Simpsons which is tough to do with you people prattling on about my existence or non-existence.
  
  I DO NOT CARE what you believe, I just want some peace and quiet.
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Bubbooposted 14 years ago
I see we are unable to stop the insanity. The blame game continues even though it has never worked in the past.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, you are judging others as being insane? Who are you?
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  the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the definition of insanity has a big hole in it. save it for your AA meeting.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which one? The big hole or the definition of insanity?
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  the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the definition...smarty pants
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good! The big hole speech at the AA meetings always gets me in trouble!
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't snakes like big holes??
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They like small holes.
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That makes me an atheist snake. Anyone know what my latin name is?
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That will be serpens tightass
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mark! I think?
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, I don't think Bubboo was actually diagnosing anyone as insane. He was merely offering one accepted definition of insanity and followed this with examples of frequent occuring human behavior which could be considered evidence of insanity.
  I on the other hand have no problem stating that most hard core fundamentalist, evangelicals are in serious need of a straight jacket fitting.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you are right, but as Mark has previously pointed out, his profile page pretty much says it all! He has no interest in writing, it appears and admits to not knowing why he is here on these forums. But he makes a statement about insanity concerning atheists versus christians. This was why the question "who are you?" was asked.
  
  He obviously does not like his beliefs laughed at but claims innocence as far as trying to "share" his own personal opinions, whether they be religious or opinions on others sanity. I've yet to meet a believer who abides by the "judge not" scripture in their novel.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I agree that arguing about religion is an exercise in futility. I see no point in it. No one can ever convince me that there isn't a supreme being, and I'll never convince someone who's sure there isn't a supreme being that there is one. In fact, I don't try to convince anyone. I respect the beliefs and non-beliefs of others. I don't judge.

If more people minded their own business and kept their beliefs on a personal level, we'd all be better off. Christ did say to spread the word, but that was when Christianity was new and few people were aware of it. Even then, He didn't tell Christians to force their beliefs down the throats of others. If someone who knew little or nothing about Christianity and ASKED me to share what I knew, I'd be happy to do so. But I'm not going to assume some holier-than-thou attitude with anyone.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have told me to go to hell on more than one occasion, Holle!
  and aren't you named Sybil, and your mother was named Sybil. Her mother was also a Sybil and hers before her too.
  
  Hmmm what could this mean? Witches would often pass female names down through the generations and Sybil was said to be a powerful name. Deny this, Holle?
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who the hell do you think turned you into a snake??
  
  Yes, my great-grandmother was a seer, a psychic, a witch. But she was a "good witch" who helped people.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you resembled Glenda, the good witch from "The wizard of Oz." Can you make your voice all trembly like she did?
  
  And being a snake came naturally, no spells were needed!
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Bubbooposted 14 years ago
It was never my intent to judge anyone as insane, and for this I apologize. My intent was, however, to show how we keep doing the same actions but expect different results. If we always go where we've always gone, we will always be were we've always been. If we always do what we've always done, we will always get what we've always got. It seems that it is unanimous on both sides that we would all like to see Peace on Earth, yet no one wants to take the first step. As if we are waiting on the other side to surrender. Well.......I surrender. Not giving up my beliefs, but understanding that the insults and hate, from either side, will not get any of us what we say we want.

God bless and peace to all
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Lol, Mark. I was waiting for Randy to say that. You beat him to the punch!
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Lisa HWposted 14 years ago
I have a feeling the insanity is not going to stop.

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Diane Insideposted 14 years ago
I agree Bubboo everyone should stop but they won't, so I have decided to not share my ideals or beliefs anymore it is pointless.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really expect harmony on the religious forums when the believers themselves cannot agree about their particular gods?
  It would be boring if everyone agreed, anyway!
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  Bubbooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
  I guess it would not be as much fun to argue about who makes the best chocolate chip cookies. But in the end the feuding remains the same. And still no positive results. I'm beginning to wonder if we really want peace on Earth. Maybe we think that would make life to boring.
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I tried a blog on myspace where I said I had had enough of the name calling and hatefulness and wanted to find a way to discover some common ground. What I discovered was that no one showed up. Too many people enjoy the arguements and yet lack the ability to admit this even to themselves. I don't suffer from this problem and will argue the christian point of view if thats the only way to get a debate started. I love a good debate and yet I also dispise an arguement. A debate some one can win and in an arguement there are NO winners. Anyone care to argue that point?
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quicksandposted 14 years ago
Amazing indeed! Any ground is good enough for battle! When I saw the first thread, I knew what to expect at the bottom! So when I scrolled down true enough there it was!

Whenever a believer opens up, there comes along an atheist to balance the equation! Whenever an atheist "athesizes" there comes along a believer to neutralize!

It's fun! The end will never begin!
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Lisa HWposted 14 years ago
...and by the way, I've never quite agreed with that ever-used "definition of insanity". To me, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results may be part of the definition of "stupid" - but not "insanity". OR, maybe it's the definition of "too persevering"

Insanity is hearing voices in our head, seeing flying pink elephants, being completely out of touch with reality - that type of thing. Just saying.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately - Insanity is when you think completely differently to everyone around you. In the case of religion this would have to be mass insanity as so many people are suckered into the twaddle that there are loads of them, enough to start a war !
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did some one say religious war? I'll bring the lions.
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are as many different types of insanity as there are different sects of different religions.
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TruthDebaterposted 14 years ago
I don't think the insanity will stop, some are addicted to controversy instead of meaningful conversation.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think so - I think it will not stop until those who cannot imagine past the second dimension stop trying to promote their childish babble to people too intelligent to accept that any part, or sect-ion, of society should be run by one of the self-promoting morons they call leaders.
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  TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. Do you think those aren't addicted to controversy? The politicians as well, controversey gets the most media coverage.
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Apostle Jackposted 14 years ago
If we could stop eating and drinking water,then it could be stop.But it will be in certain lifes of TRUE CHRISTIANS.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What on earth does this mean ?
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ahorsebackposted 14 years ago
Well, bubboo , did you get the question answered, religious minds as do political minds all run on the same fuel. Conflict.........
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Yes could we please stop the insanity and dispense with the fairies and goblins running other peoples lives on behalf of their "truth."

There are adults here ya know!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No church today Ernest?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's right Ron. It's Monday.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah, I always forget the calendars in your part of the world are always a day off, plus the toilets flush the wrong direction.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean a day AHEAD and our toilets flush the right way don't you?
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My toilet flushes down, does yours flush up?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you had ever witnessed the miracle of a clockwise flush, your views on most things would change for the better.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If your toilet flushes up, it might be a fountain. Well aware of the equatorial pecadillos of earth, thank u
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  About insanity. If there is even a shadow of a doubt that one might convince the other, Then, by all means JOUST ON!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I travelled to the great lands of the clockwise or reverse flush a few times, even left many loads there, but it's not the same.
  I saw religionists everywhere over there and I blame your plumbing for that!
  
  Do you think a delicate environment like the Antarctic would survive a clockwise flush? Or the contamination of a religionist?
  
  I don't think so!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bibles are printed on very thin, very soft paper...
  
  I'm just sayin'.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! I didn't realise that when people swallowed the "word" that it came out intact!
  
  Or is that new paper? If it is new paper I can't imagine "wiping the word" would help confirm anything, but I dunno......
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  earnest and Ron, you do realize this toilet paper may be so full of crap already you wont get anymore to stick don't you? You will probably just end up smearing crap all over your buttocks using religious toilet paper to wipe it.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True, but if the smearing resembles the face of a recognizable religious character, My bathroom could become a holy shrine and I could charge admission to witness the miracle.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Sometimes my imagination is a curse! I copped a mental image of that!
  
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  Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a cool way to save the trees. Recycling useless books into toilet paper.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Could we please stop the Insanity?

Insanity is like dog poop.
It is there .. don't get any on your shoes.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's not the problem. It usually comes from their mouthes.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You may be right about that. The same advice still stands
  Don't let it "Fall" on your shoes. lol
  
  goin to H Depot back in a bit.
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