I've never gotten an answer that explains why God is a"HE".I'm wondering if God choose to be a"He" and if so,Why?The bible says Gods a"HE"but doesn't tell us Why?Isn't being a"She"just as good?or an"It"or anything else?So please enlighten me as to why God is a"He"...cause inquiring minds need to know.
It's not a term of gender.
God is not "male". It's to do with authority.
He gave Adam, and through Adam, EVERY man has authority, (headship) ect. As each man is supposed to lead, teach, direct, rule, decide, oversee etc. it's a reflection of God,s authority.
I suppose if He made it so women were in that role, (which many assume right now, incorrectly) then God would have referred to Self as "She".
This is a bit confusing.How do you determine that"he" applies to gender in people but"He"does not apply to God as gender.You say that God gave authority to Adam who was a"He".Fair enough,but why was Adam a"He"?Why didn't God make a Woman first since women are the carriers of children and men have little to do with it.Wouldn't that make women more important to God's plan for humanity?Your last bit contradicts your first,you say God is not a"He" then you use"He",then you use"She"which you discount.I'm more confused now than I was before.
How could God who is perfection make anything that is imperfect? The world and everything in it is an elaborate illusion, a construct of mind and not God's creation.
Well ,one things for sure if you spend enough time on these forums you most definately can see God has a sense of humour
Nonsense. It's a reflection of male authority. God hasn't given anybody anything.
You God is a misogynistic pig. But you just go right along with this bias. How insane.
Yes you should rest your case, because your answers are invalid and archaic.
Ya'll should be learnin' ta read. Image of God = male and female.
The image of God can be anything that any delusional person thinks it is. That's the problem.
What the h3ll does that have to do with reading?
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Y'all come back now
Don't you mean an honest man? Actually he is a nice person.
The biblical god is a monster.
Thanks Ernie, I'm sure he is nice (to those he wants to be nice to).
He can have any view of God he wants, I don't really care about that.
I assume you read what he said about me though, right?
Not very nice, in my opinion, but, hey, some people are like that.
I used to snap back, but I'm over it nowadays.
God isn't a monster.
The people that are sinning against God cause all the monstrosities.
God has given us mercy and grace through Jesus.
Thank God for the mercy He gave us in Jesus or we would all get exactly what we deserve!
I think they are going through some of that now.They brought nothing with them TO THE TABLE and they took nothing away when they left.So nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
You can tell when one is between a rock and a hard place is when they will say anything to make a point.
Is that your excuse, Jack? Is that why you say the disturbingly foul things you say? So you feel like you are between a rock and a hard place, huh?!
I thought it was surely mental illness... because you display some very disturbing signs. Please understand, I'm serious when I say that, in my opinion, You should not be allowed on internet forums. In fact you should never be allowed to converse with the general public.
Your statements are too silly to even consider a response...
and speaking of responses, you never read them, CORRECTLY, anyway.
I'm not a mental health worker, but I do have a social service background, and I sincerely hope you are getting the help you need.
cause you sure need it!
I know what you mean.When you find out that you are out of your league in knowledge,and can't win because you don't have enough to add up to anything so you fold like a dish rag,point your finger,and make up plenty of excuses.Your kind is well known.
Yes its sad ,when you dont agree with some people they throw tantrums like a spoiled 2yr old who cant get their own way.
Quite immature to see adults being rude,just no need for it.
Apostle J ,you have just as much to share your opinion on here as anyone else.
Its a public forum
By the way I have a social work degree too ,but Im not so arrogant to assume to know whose mental or not?
Maybe if I put on a suit that will make me a Lawyer or Politician
Thanks for your kind words of welcome.They are bumping their heads against the wall and wonder why they have headaches all the time.
No, "they" are for the most part are living normal happy un-indoctrinated lives.
I heard different.Are you hiding something?
On the contrary my Australian short stories right here on hubpages openly shows my life and photos. I use my real name, that is me in the profile avatar and am well known here as well as in the city where I reside.
I'm not a moralising religionist hiding behind a blind profile because I haven't got the guts to expose what a miserable little failure I am.
But how can your life have any purpose without the support of the loving arms of the magical skydaddy, who can make you live forever?
You sure you ain't hiding something?
Well, there is this mole on my bum....... Oh and I did have sex with that woman, but I thought it was OK to leave that out. It was good enough for Bill. I liked Bill and thought Star should have been run over by a bus hourly....... I think that about covers it though.
Yes some people do live nice lives without God. These types of people are the deliciously warm waffle that looks good to the eye, smells good and will probably taste good.
every waffle needs the topping of God because nice can become fantastic.
and there's that whole after life thing.
The problem is with people who have nice lives unindoctrinated or otherwise is that they do not recognize a need for God. "My life is just fine, why drag God into it". "Look at all the things i have". Self is clearly on the throne. There is no training to live by faith, no love toward God, no earnest for the salvation of others. These people have become unprofitable stewards, who have done nothing for the eternal life they might have inherited. Aside from not knowing the keeper of eternity, how shall they live with Him, not having gone through the steps to know him.
Sometimes people in mental wards throw their excrement at their caregivers. Why they do this, I don't know. Maybe it's a need to try to gain control, in a world they don't understand.
What books have brainwashed you?Or did you get those thoughts all by yourself.
HE referred to HIMSELF as I AM not as HE.
Good point! glad you made it,not that it will make much sense here
I understand your point.
However, it doesn't quite answer the question.
Jesus (the human representation of ) God, came as a man.
He referred to His Father (God) repetitively, as Father, not neuter nor as feminine.
He also used pronouns, "he, his, him" when referring to God (the Father).
Excellent point. I assume in the collective language the pronoun 'he' would reference in generality or collectivity, sort of a catch-word. I don't believe there is an actual gender but your point of authority is taken. In the assignment of words it would make sense that God was and is referred to as 'he'.
The reference of the female as negative, dark, earth, etc. is strictly in the sense of opposites, necessary to make the one as in negative and positive charges, or dark night and light day and so on. The idea that the female side of Man has anything to do with death or devils (as Kess states below) is purely an archaic convolution of religion and men's fear of God's reprisal.
I do stand by my original post. The 'father' does not refer to himself as he but as I AM. The son who came in human form lived as a human and used the language understood by humans. As stated above, it could be simply a collective term.
Hello Cheaptrick - I think it really doesn't matter if God is literally a He 'cause no one really knows it except God.
However, Jesus Christ addresses God as our Father especially when Jesus Christ prayed before he was captured and crucified. And therefore it's a He.
Ideally, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one and may consider as He. Even Jesus Christ said He is God the Father Himself yet was born in a human form, half God and half man.
And I agree with Aka-Dj. It's not really about the gender which we are used to know just because of the genitalia differences.
It's because of authority and power which is why we always spelled it with a capital H 'cause he is God. But we never really know as God is supreme and doesn't have a human form. We just have to believe what the bible says about Him as the bible is the word of God. We can't question him logically.
It IS a Beautiful day,fixin to go to the beach...And thank you for your civility,rather rare around these parts.
I'm not arguing the biblical use of"HE",I'm asking Why He,why not Jesus as a Woman and God as a woman.Everything else stays the same,cool.So why HE?Also,if the bible is"The"word...why dose John end his gospel with"These are just a"FEW"of the things Jesus said and did.If you put them all into books,they would fill up the Whole World"....kind of an arrow pointing to"Out Side"works that are not In the Bible...Contradiction of"Bible Only",with What John himself says don't ya think?
And hope your having a wonderful day as well:D
SEE Y'ALL,I can be civil when approached in a civil manner."Give what you Get"is my mantra HA!!
Cheaptrick - I believe Jesus appeared as a male because males traditionally held authority, property and respect. It made the whole thing credible.
Perhaps John's 'sense' of the enormity of the Word points toward a higher conciousness which is well beyond the understanding of most. The guidebook known as the New Testament indicates that each of us is capable of all the things which Jesus accomplished including walking on water, healing, dying and appearing as light/pure energy. The mind is far more complex than we can imagine and although we are potentially capable we are distracted by our present condition.
Couturepopcafe, let me add on to Cheaptrick's kudo's about the civility of the this particular thread; others I ran down were rather gruesome.
Anyway, I agree with your first two reasons, authority and property but I am not sure respect enters into it. In research I have done for hubs I have been writing that goes back to about 500 B.C. so far, in what is today Greece and the Middle East woman had no standing at all; they were one step above a slave and no one was shy in saying so, it appears. Remember, women were considered legal chattel in Louisianna into the early 1900s and it took the need for women to work the factories in WWI to get the 19th Amenedment passed in America. Until then, women didn't have very many more rights than they did in 200 B.C. believe it or not.
One last example. The Taliban practice the Old Testament version of the relationship between men and women and as we have seen, it isn't a nice one.
It was clearly a man's world, women were only a tool. That is why I believe God is a HE in the Bible.
Nature operates across the spectrum via two different poles e.g. positive, negative, life, death, good, bad, night, day etc... Male and female are but the same principal with one being the balance of the other. I would suggest that in earlier times when women were essentially nurturers and men protectors, men also evolved as leaders and dictators. It was therefore inevitable that when religious tales were being constructed, they were written by men with the perception that life's ruler could only be a man...
Yeah, and why do we sing hymns and not hers?, why Amen and not Awomen?
I am sure I gave someone the answer a little while back....not sure if it was you....
But then again any answer the person does not like it deemed incorrect anyway....
wonder why they ask in the first place knowing that they already know the answer....
It was not me Kess,I've just lately resumed coming to this forum.I'm sure I would remember an answer to this question.So please,if it's not to much trouble,explain it again.
Maleness is symbolic of wholeness Oneness, perfection....God, Life
Femaleness is symbolic of duality, imperfection....Devil, Death
Adam the single Male became divided in two male female, therefore signifying his death...
But death/woman is nececssary for reproduction..
And from the duality of Death/woman come Life/Male..
So we have Fathers and Sons in the kingdom of heaven...
The feminine belongs to the earth alone, and if the feminine will ascend she must become Male..
There is much more to it if you begin to look....
Kess, you try to convince her of that one! Good luck, buddy!
Does this mean that Adam was the first bisexual? Sounds to me like he was having some serious issues.
It seems that you are applying the text in the *gnostic* gospel according to Thomas to what you are saying.
(1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life."
(2) Jesus said: "Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male,
so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you."
(3) (But I say to you): "Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Kess, you have an interesting perspective on this subject, as always. I'm not supporting any book or ideology but very few 'religions' support the idea that the female represents 'death' in some way, voodooism being one. Those who practice the dark arts are another example of those who believe that the female holds some mysterious power which should be contained lest she release her demons.
According to Christian belief, Adam was not actually divided but was the provider of the rib from which the woman was 'made'. I don't suppose God really needed that rib but it is figurative not literal which would also point to the authority of the male, at least according to that story.
Death occurred after the 'sin', not after the creation of the female. Man as a race would symbolize perfection as God 'made' male as well as female. As for 'becoming male', it also follows the theology of the times.
if the false will accept itself as false, then it would know and become truth..
it is the same with , men and religion, they seen themselves as males when indeed they are the female..peprtually blinding their own eyes....
why because they still walk in the knowledge of good and evil....so therefore they cannot see nor accept themselves in negative connotations...death, female, devil, falseness.....etc. for they are everyting other than themselves.
and they seek to justify themselves in the eyes of men...who actually are still female....
But when Truth comes they would see all things as good...and for me death / female is and has always been good. For by her I have seen the totality of Life, which is myself.
So if I understand you, you are speaking of the 'sin nature' as defined in the book of Genesis. The veil which covers the eyes of humanity and prevents him from seeing God.
Of course, as is true with much religious thought, this is a bit of a contradiction. The knowledge of good and evil would include negative connotation and many apply this to themselves in the form of mental affliction.
I believe however that you are speaking from the perspective of consciousness. The mind is said to perceive when it reflects both the knower and the known. For the one who sees the distinction, there is no further confusion. This awareness begins to discriminate and gravitates toward liberation. The removal of habitual thought patterns (walking in the knowledge of good and evil) allows us to remain undistracted in the highest intellection. The mind freed from all obscuration makes the universe of sensory perception seem small, but as you have stated, is a necessary stepping stone and fulfills a function. This sequence is evolving in each of us every second but is only comprehensible at the end of the series.
I will tell you why.Because the seed comes from the man to begin life.The woman only completes the process.Adam was created first,and the woman was created from the man. The male is stronger than the female.The man by the millions gave their life that women and children may live,in comparison to only a few woman that made that sacrifice
In the beginning before God created the heaven and the earth as we know it...there was no women,it was only male Angels.Women did not exist until He created Eve.Just for the record.
seed coming from man & woman being the fertile or infertile field - that's the view of the people that wrote the bible - they didn't know that a woman is not a supporter in human life, but an equal contributor. Haven't you done a basic human reproduction class?
Are you saying commonly that a woman can get pregnant without the male gender?If so how can that be done?
Mary became male . this is why she bore a child without having sex.......
Any female who understand their femaleness and their maleness can do the same.
I know what you mean, it works the other way around too!
This morning I swear I gave birth to a car salesman!
nice earn that est
what does hypocrite mean?
Chris is giving me 2 totally different answers
I think a hypocrite is someone who disagrees with me.
Seriously I like this meaning from wordweb.
A person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives
no not really
OK you rock
yuz still da best helpin meez every nite
That may be so in your book,but not in reality.What case can you refer to that would verify what you are saying,Mr Kess?You can put lipstick on a pig.....but it would still be a pig.
Unless you have seen your own singularity/ duality, Maleness /femaleness...
No explanation will suffice.
And can you explain Jesus conception without getting getting deep into carnal thinking...
You will know more..when you learn more.Mr Kess
That is a quotation.I don't have to be in the same boat as you are in order to know that the boat is there.I know this.You can change the outside,but the inside will remain the same.A man cannot have children no matter how you change your appearance,or what you call yourself.I said that because it is evident that you cannot read between the lines.
Kess - the big question we all want to know is this - if you as a man are perfection and Mary became male to be perfection (the only way to Heaven), and she therefore was able to conceive a child without a male (because she became a male), what is your perspective on why males do not conceive children without females?
All things are done for the good purpose of Him who initiated it...and none are able to step outside of that purpose...and this is accomplished by each having individual knowledge...mean a man only will see what he has deternined within himself to see and knoledge of it is distributed by the Good who is all knowledge in perfect order until all is accomplished complete.
So Mary though she saw and become male, and this a spiritual understanding, she was still feminine according to her flesh nature, thus she is able to purpose and accomplish what no other flesh male can. No flesh female could have done it cause they could not even take a single thought concerning it...
The flesh males who realize their own femininity already know they can reproduce by thmselves, and would in their own proper time. That would mean returning to their feminine nature.
So donot expect to see a pregnant male unless it is accomplshed by the femine males, and this they can do by walking in the femininity of their minds which is fleshly thinking not spiritual for these have never known their maleness.
I understand. You are speaking from a level of consciousness, mind.
Sounds absolutely ridiculous
This is the problem when people decide for themselves what to believe in without proper context from the bible.
Clearly God was the father of Marys child and the power of God formed the child... there is no need for christian scientology thinking about this.
Where did you get "Mary became male" from??????????
Your beliefs are completely primitive.
That would let you off the hook if it was.Completely spiritual,which you have none or very little of.
You have nothing but indoctrination and willful ignorance. Your beliefs are a hinderance to intellect, and the cause of prejudices of every kind.
When one don't understand nor have any place to go,they speak as you do.More than offended...I fell sorry for you.
Your God has bestowed this great understanding upon you, yet it seems that He has neclected to teach you correct subject-verb agreement.
I feel sorry that you worship such an inferior God. It is you that is to be pitied.
I don;t have to walk down the same road as you do to get to the same destination. When one hold their head as high as you do,they can't help but to keep stepping in that pile of crap in the middle of the road.When are you going to stop making that same trip.
If you have to put someone down in order to lift yourself up,
What does that say about you ?
Not a lot.
I also think angry people feel very insecure about themselves,and it shows in their tone and critisim.
Shame that ,but I spose the payoff is attention.
Kind of like Christians when they claim they are saved and threaten everyone else with eternal damnation?
What does that say about them, anyways?
I don't do that, so ya got that wrong (again)
Yes, that's what all believers claim.
Of course, you won't mind if I peruse your past posts or remind you of this post when you do say those things?
Hi Kiwi, I don't say that either, but I have been falsely accused of doing that by a few of the atheists in these forums. My words have been twisted as usual. I have not written one single post threatening an unbeliever with eternal damnation. How have you been?
Sorry to be slow in replying ,been enjoying all this wonderful weather!! isnt it great to feel the sunshine and bask in its rays,after the brrrr....snow days
With all the fluff n stuff floating around our world today ,be it via the media or on any internet forum ,good love and good hearts seem to be low on the ground,but love ,faith and hope are alive and well in the heavenlies and in hearts of Gods sons and daughters!!
So rock on ,keep smiling ,keep loving ,stay strong in His name xxoo
They claim everyone can be saved.
Don't even have to earn or work for it.
Jesus said it was free to be saved. A gift from Him.
And if anyone is threatening you, it is God, which by the way would have a right to if He did because everything you have including thoughts came from Him.
Shooting the messengers Einstein?
Another wonderful, but failing attempt..
if you don't do your dishes.... your sink will smell
Please point out where I "lifted myself up. Or is this just more knee-jerk, unthinking nonsense on your part?
Yes, and your false accusations, and erroneous conclusions points to the fact that YOU could be angry and very insecure. Spot on!
Apostle Jack - Unlike the plant world, the seed of the animal world cannot begin life on its own. Any 'completion' which must take place would indicate a lack therein.
The idea that millions of men gave their lives so that women and children may live is noble indeed but one has to ask oneself who those men were fighting. The answer is obviously other men. Throughout history, men have fought and died, many in defense and many as offenders.
Generally speaking, men are inherently physically stronger than women. This point is irrelevant as the differences in male and female does not, as a rule, make one better or worse than the other.
I'm quite sure, according to the religious books at least, that angels are gender neutral. There is much mythology however which depicts angels as male and able to procreate with humans.
The are able to be within the flesh,but they cannot turn into flesh.They have no physical nor gender parts.Their presence within the physical body stimulate the matter and cells of the flesh to cause them to function.
I understand. They are spirits, for lack of a better word, able to engage within flesh but unable to manifest as flesh.
Please explain your use of the term 'male angels'.
The same as male spirits Angel is just another title that was give to the first created spirits.There was no female Angels.There was no need for female companionship.There was no sin nor negative desires,until the rebellion of Satan.
Eve was the first female gender that God created within flesh,but from a rib of the male gender.
simple - because men wrote the bible which reflected their attitudes that men were superior to women.
The pagans had female, male and hermaphrodite gods.
God has to be a HE !
I think if HE was a SHE then he'd be a Goddess !
I can see why you might get confused.
God is both a he and she. He/She has the maternal life sustaining/nurturer quality much as he protects us as a father should. The gender-ization of God is because men wanted to depict God as a "MAN" rather than a woman or a combination of the best of BOTH genders.
Man is the species. Male and female are genders of the species Man. We are all MAN. (That last one is the royal we of course.)
Cheap trick has asked a trick question! Ha!
God isn't a "he"
That pretty much settles it.
Without a HE....... there would be no SHE.
This is how I think it really happened:
God created man-stepped back to admire his work ,then decided He could better
NOPE.....but rather....two heads are better than one would be the conclusion.
Psst it was a joke...God created humour to ya 'know
Only natural humor.That which is made up to be funny is a sin.I don't think anything about God is funny,if i may say.
Really?How about this,Without a SHE there would be no HE!Of course,your referring to the metaphor of creation but ask yourself what that signifies from another point of view.Adam=dust of the earth.Eve=Adam's rib.HMmm,no wonder some women think some men are dirt bags.Chauvinism is dead or haven't you heard.WE,Men and Women,Are Equal...with women taking a slight lead at the moment....
I would say more than a slight lead..more like a make-over and take over.
We as the male gender brought the seed as the first created of the 2 genders.
no, there is no seed. A male & female contribute half each - don't you understand how sperm & ova work?
You are hiding something.A man don't need a woman in order to posses the seed.Your interpretation is not in perspective with the whole matter.You are speaking of many categories that separate the male and female gender.One word don't speak for everything.
no idea what you are going on about. Hiding what?
Is that the only thing that you got from my comment?Then you didn't suppose to see it.
I didn't get anything from any of your comments, except that you seem to be ignorant of what happens in basic human reproduction
It is the spiritual part that is missing.The human part is already well known.
Basic human reproduction had no part in Mary's pregnancy.
God, a spirit, is the father... does a spirit have seed? sperm?
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee, and the POWER of the HGHEST shall OVERSHADOW thee: therefore also that HOLY THING which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
God did not need Marys egg
God did not need sperm
God used power to create from nothing as is His tendency.
HE & SHE - human language was invented by humans.
Everything came from somewhere,even your own belief.
How everything came to exist from nothing is the fundamental question - and that also applies to any god. It is the simplest question also, if a god made everything, who or what made the god. If a god was 'made' then why not skip that unnecessary part of the process and just make everything.
God is all knowing.. not a know it all
GOD is a He because, He is Not an "IT", a power, or a Thing, but is in deed a Personage!
Why did he chose to say He well just look at the womans past an her history in this our world or her world. Would you choose to be a woman in it?
Why than would an All divine Powerful God choose to be Anything other Than a He? And yes He has chosen another titled or descriptive description, "I am That I am" no sexual preference here!
He is just a descriptor for creator. as in the olden days, it was believed that the men are the ones who seed the women and women just receive it.
now we know that the dna is from the sperm and the membrane is the mother's. which means, the men only put the software and the women the hardware.
Don't you think that this is just the way we were brought up? I cannot imagine him as a her. But that's just the way I was raised. I would embrace whatever sex they were. Maybe God is an it or both.... Like Pat on SNL.
considering that the bible was written in a time when men were pretty much the only ones who could read, it is only right that they made him a male. i doubt it would have went down well if people back then were told god was a she, men were the dominant ones and i doubt they would have prayed to a female.
I suppose god being a he is a matter of hard line tradition. I have heard some people with a more modern outlook pray and say "god, whatever you concieve him, her, and it to be. God is described as a he but let us not forget the importance of mary who is a she and as equal a part of the heavenly family. Yes we understand god to be a he. Perhaps this is due as much to habit as it is due to hard line correctors who would not tolerate god being a she.
All of you Atheist seem to be saying the same thing...............absolutely nothing.
I'm not an atheist JackO boy.I just don't believe in this silly little bearded guy who sits on a cloud and dose stuff for ya if ya pray hard enough.
Kirkegaard,Aquinas,and many other Truly great thinkers tried to Prove your God and failed.All of these people[without exception]Came to the conclusion that you either believe or not.
The mind of an ant is not equipped to perceive or understand humans.That is outside of the ants ability to comprehend.
GOD,The ONE,Source.Big Bang,Infinity The Higgs Boson[God particle],etc or what ever identifier you wish to use,is outside the ability of the human minds comprehension just as humans are outside the ant's ability to comprehend.
In the end,the most we can say is...GOD IS!...everything else is the arrogance of people who feel this absurd need to bring everything down to their level.Your personal experience is OPINION.good for you....but it has NO validity to others.
These arguments are nothing more than
How can one take that seriously!Fun is fun,but when you start thinking it is reality...you're gonna wear your self out and miss[which you clearly have]the Real thing...which is different for each of us!
You never did answer my Important question...Is it cold in your mom and dad's[assuming you have one and not several suspects]...Basement?
I would rather believe in God....than in Santa Claus and mickey Mouse.
So, you make a choice to believe in one fairy tale but not another? I suspect there were actually no choices made at all, at least not by yourself, but perhaps on your behalf.
I read down through a lot of the threads and all I can say is WOW! This is my first trek into a forum. I started writing Hubs to talk about religion but got sidetracked into politics, economics, and American history. So, I guess I will cut my teeth on religion here and see if Getitrite can break them.
To answer your question, Cheaptrick, God is a "He" because the Bible was written by men; as simple as that. That the authorship of the various books of the Bible were produced by humans, presumably men, since women had no standing back in those days, at various periods of time is now a historical fact accepted by scientists and serious theologians alike.
One can always argue, I suppose, that these men were just quoting God as he spoke to them personally, by vision, or through intermediaries, but a simple reading of the Bible in the original Greek and Hebrew, interesting in and of itself, let alone the multitude of translations, which often contradict each other now, would seem to indicate that God is trying to hide the fact that He is the actual author.
One simple example is the Book of Job. The middle section is quite different and much older than the beginning and end. Virtually all Biblical researchers of any credentials and merit agree these preambles and post-scripts were added to provide context to the main story. That just doesn't jibe with God being the original author.
Nor does the story of Noah (written no earlier than the 9th century B.C.) seem to have come from God. A more probabe source are poems about a great flood (Black Sea?) some 1500 years earlier in stories about Gilgamesh. The stories are quite similar it seems.
I agree with what you've said with one exception.
There is no way to verify that God spoke through man.It could just as well have been Man speaking for himself and claiming authority buy attributing it to God.Most of the writers of the old testament would qualify for medication and a padded room today.The new testament does not score much higher though it is more evolved than the old.
Religion,All religion,must be taken in the context of WHEN it was first written as an attempt at explaining what was then Unexplainable.To hold on to the old is to DENY the NEW and MORE ACCURATE understanding we have NOW!
I hope our descendants have the good sense to find newer more in depth explanations than we have for the phenomena of existence.That is advancing the human race,not clinging to what limited knowledge their ancestors held as though knowledge were laid in cement.
OK,going to the beach now.....back latter to read the Fun replies to my Heretical statements.Love Y'all......even you religionists:D
Deuteronomy 18:18 "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him".
These are the qualifications for a prophet or shall we say "One whom God speaks through".
Deuteronomy 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Judges 6:8 That the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel, which said unto them, Thus SAYS the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and brought you forth out of the house of bondage;
2 Samuel 24:11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
2 Kings 13:20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:
I could go on and on about God speaking to people through his prophets and about God speaking to people - moses and the burning bush - but this is OT dispensation stuff, yet, evidence enough to show that God does in deed speak to and through people. Noah as pertaining to his ark building.
Here we have NT examples to back up past speech:
Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners SPOKE in times past unto the fathers by the PROPHETS,
Hebrews 1:2 HaS in these last days spoken unto us by his Son
Heres an example of Peter being spoken too:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
It is (super)natural that God speaks to His people, otherwise what is the point? Where is the relationship? How can we be corrected? How can we communicate the things of God with great effectiveness? It would be of no importance to follow a mute God.
As to your statement, "Most of the writers of the old testament would qualify for medication and a padded room today", i ask, to what reference do you back up your statement with? or is this just your opinion? To show why i ask this i will bring up the example of David and his covetness of Bathsheba unto the killing of Uriah the Hittite. David did a bad thing, heinous actually, he sent uriah to the front lines of battle where few, very few returned. In essence he killed him. Now with intentions like this one would question why did God, about David, say:
1 Samuel 13:14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.
And this is verified in the NT
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
Because of David ability to feel remorse. When david repented He poured his heart out before God and spoke tremendous phrases of guilt ridden repentance, passages of grief unmatchable.
Yet David was not certifiably crazy.
David understood when he sinned
David wrote Psalm 51 in connection with the bathsheba incident.
Psalms 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Psalms 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psalms 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psalms 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
As to your limited knowledge theory. Knowledge of the world and how the world works has no impact on Christians for many reasons but i will slam dunk this one for ya:
Matthew 8:24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
Matthew 8:25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
Matthew 8:26 And he said to them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and REBUKED the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Rebuked, spoke to: does the sea have ears and the wind hear that it might think to itself, i must be calm? no.
So how did a few words calm the sea (and no words part the red sea?)
God is on every level atomic, molecular and microscopic.
This post is to cool.
Validate the bible buy quoting the Bible!Ha!
That's Easy to do but it's just what you folks try every time.If you can restrict the argument to the bible...You Win!
Verification however,requires INDEPENDENT OUT SIDE confirmation!Otherwise,we can verify and validate ALL religions claims simply buy quoting whats in them!
How is your bible anymore val-ed than any other religion when they use the same method that you do.
I was going to say this is laughable and childish but it's so far beyond that...that...
its a book about God
If you want to know about gardening you don't go to a book about painting.
Since there are so very few book about God then it is best to go to a book from God.
But if this is not your cuppa tea
Then you will miss the whole point
and this is not laughable but sorrowful
A book from god? Oh brother! Now I'm really confused about who wrote it.
The Quran is a book about God too.The Vedas are books about God.The Bardo Tho Dal is a book about God,etc,etc.How is Your book any better or more acurate?
Sorry Cheaptrick, I tried to include all possibilities. I actually think the books of the Bible, both Old and New, were written by men at different times and assymbled and reassymbled at some later date to fit what ever message wanted to be told by the religious authorities at the time. Even IF it the original had been written directly by God, man has SO changed its content and form as to make it unrecognizable by anyone who lived in 2500 - 900 B.C., the approximate dates of the Bible's authorship, Nobody today knows what the Bible truly said when it was first written and since God has not revealed Himself to anybody since Moses, I think, who knows what He actually has on His mind? All we have today are contemporary humans interpretations of translations of less contemporary humans translations of ... ad infinitum.
That is why it would be pointless to parse the evidence Brotheryochanan offers for parse it I can. For example, just taking a surface look, only in
Deuteronomy 18:18 does God talk in the 1st person. In the next four citations, there are only reports of what was alledgedly observed. There would need to be corraborating sightings of the same event to begin to have any standing.
Does God talk in the first person? Now you have really blown all credibility for your parsonability.
Think what you want but really you have spend time reading the bible to actually get to know it and once having gotten to know it, you'll eat your words for breakfast.
How do i know this.
I read the bible constantly and its preservation is a godsend.
I have what I have in my and no more, I do not trust what comes out of the mouth or pen of man on its face.
To me - "i will raise them up ..." is in the first person, by definition, in the English language. But, there is no way, however, that you can take " God, who at sundry times and in divers manners SPOKE in times past unto the fathers by the PROPHETS" and turn that into first person to show those are words out of God's mouth without doing great damage to the ability to reason and perform logic that God gave you; unless, of course, you are one of those Luther/Calvinists who believe God didn't intend for Man to use the God-given capability to think for oneself when it comes to matters of faith.
It also stretches one's imagination to twist reason around enough to picture God guding the writer's hand to write those particular words; one can easily imagine God guiding the writer's hand but using other words to describe the action in that sentence that would sound like God was actually dictating it. How can you, Brotheryochanan, say that sentence is anything more that an observation by a third party recorded in the Book of Hebrew?
I don't believe God is male or female, but merely ENERGY. WE are also a Part of that Energy which is all compassion and Love..
God is not a material entity. That is is why s/he is neither male nor female.
Why do most people think of God as a male? That is a totally different question.
Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
I would say it is because sky gods tend to be patriarchal and earth gods tend to be matriarchal - mother earth.
Earnest!I just Knew you'd show up sooner or latter!....er...are you talking about the god...or the noodle,cause I Love those!
Can you mix those?or should I use seperate bowls?
I mix in two bowels then add a grain of salt.
pigs bowels or sheeps bowels? Not something I'd be keen to eat
What a huge Freudian slip I made!
Thanks for that! Amused the hell outta me!
I love it when mistakes work so well in language!
so that was Freudian? bowels for bowls.. are we supposed to now know what you are thinking about?
i dare say, that was not Freudian
what psychology book did you get that from again?
Wow! You searched that far back in the thread, because you are seething and wanted to make another personal attack.
...... then it went straight over your head. Still I'm used to truth, fact, reality all going over your head so I shouldn't be surprised.
Sometimes you have to do more than just google things to know about them.
The English language unfortunately does not have an appropriate word to refer to someone who possesses the characteristics of both a male and a female. Now, God is ultimately Spirit, but He is also a Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). He made both MAN and WOMAN in His image, therefore, He must contain characteristics which are both male and female, yes? Well, the only pronouns that we have in the English language are to refer to male OR female (HE OR SHE), and since His earthly incarnation was male, we tend to refer to Him as male.
Yes, a person can be born with both male and female genitalia, but we have not yet developed in the English language a suitable personal pronoun for that person, just as a person can be androgynous, possessing characteristics that are both male and female, but again - no personal pronoun has yet been developed in the English language that is suitable to refer to that person.
That nonexistent word your referring to is"Hermaphrodite",an ancient Greek word And there were some Christian groups who used it...that is until the main stream Christians wiped them out.
Should we amend our prayers then to correctly Identify who we're praying to?"Thou shalt have no other God before me".We wouldn't want our prayers going into the ear of the wrong God,that could be dangerous,he might cause some natural disasters.Ya know...like the ones that kill millions of inocent people every year.Whats up with that?!
I know what the word is. Thanks for educating me though. I didn't intend to discuss God and his existence or non - I just was aiming to answer your question. And, the answer is very simple. It because of the limitations of the English language. If there are other languages that perhaps have more than two personal gender pronouns, maybe God is a shim or a sher.
Sorry, didn't mean to butt into your fun. I'll excuse myself now from the insanity that you're all enjoying.
What makes you say the word hermaphrodite is non-existent?
Ahh..don't gooo...I'm sorry if I upset you...hello?is there anybody out there?
Doesn't Pink Floyd say "in there?"
I never get upset on a forum. But I'm hard to bait so lots of folks get bored with me...lol
Your cool.Pink Floyd has always been my favorite band.The track is Comfortably Numb and the very first line is him whispering"is there anybody out there".Then your line kicks in.I now officially respect you cause you quoted the Pink!
Amongst many other Floyd tunes, we have been playing that one in our band for years and never get tired of it. The guitar solos in it are some of the best ever conceived imho, and are so much fun to play.
I'm blown away Buy the people I've never thought would like Pink who Do!Welcome to or should I say thank you for,continuing the Pink legacy!
Absolutely, we have been playing tunes from Dark Side, Animals, Wish You Were Here and The Wall, lots of them, every time we get together. They are usually relatively easy to play and sound great if you get it right.
Now and again, we even pull out tunes like, Careful With That Ax Eugene.
the last concert they played in toronto i went to. it is still the best concert of my life. there will never be another band that combines incredible music, unbelievable stage shows and a feeling of being somewhere else like pink does.
CT - Amazing. Me too. I'm also a PF fan. Have been since, well let's say a long while. They please across the board because they are unique, accomplished, talented, inventive, seductive, and .....on and on.
Dont worry bout that wordy guy ,just probably a cheaptrick
God is Spirit -neither a He nor a She
Hugs backatcha, EK. I don't mind...I can't find it in myself to let the forums upset me anymore, yanno!
Just a sec here ladies[I'll try not to be To wordy for you].I merely pointed out in response to the statement"The English language doesn't have a word to describe the male/female etc"That the word is Hermaphrodite,it's in Websters ya know.
Also,I haven't"Baited"anyone here,simply responded to posts that appear to be illogical or contradictory.
If you read through this thread you'll find I've respected and thanked opinions from both sides...so please don't go making me out to be a troll.This thread was started as a point of debate,I don't see that as Negative by any stretch.
There I go gettin wordy again...so Sorry.
No, no cheaptrick. I didn't intend to make you out that way! I apologize if that's how it came across. I mean trolls in general. I'm just crappy bait for them and they tend to have figured that out by now and ignore me.
EK was just giving me sympathy because I think she thought from your and my exchange that we were "having words."
You and I were not having words and are at complete peace.
Just as an aside though - hermaphrodite only describes a person with male and female genitalia, not characteristics, which I mentioned. And, there is no suitable personal pronoun for someone who is a hermaphrodite.
Second, an androgynous person may contain both male and female characteristics, but again...no suitable personal pronoun for one.
So, it all, unfortunately very simply, boils down to a limit of the English language.
Sorry to disagree here but the word hermaphrodite is an extension of the Greek God Hermes who was androgynous and it had nothing to do with genitalia[I Love that word Ha!]but his nature...honest...you can even Google it if you like
Okay, I have Googled it in the past but will do so again. But, I was referring to the way the word is used in the English language. Which is what I've been pointing to all along - the limitations in the English language about gender...knowing the words actual roots and origins, you'll see why God is a He (in ENGLISH).
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definitio … ?region=us
These two dictionary definitions say absolutely nothing about nature or characteristics...nor does the wiki article (I don't usually refer to wiki as a valuable source, but I will here, because it supports my argument )
The word hermaphrodite refers to only SEXUAL characteristics, genitalia, etc.
The word androgynous refers to female and male NATURE.
Either way, my friend, there is no suitable personal pronoun to describe either in the English language.
So, how are you this fine day?
Ouch!I think I just got my intellectual head[small as it may be] handed to me on a silver platter!For an encore I shall stick my other foot in my mouth!Ill never debate you again without confirming my info first:SO,back to the original question...why"HE" and not"SHE"?
Seems 'guys' is used a lot these days to refer to everybody.
Because the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have always been dominated by men in a patriarchal society. Whichever sex rules society is bound to ascribe the characteristics of their sex to their god.
Hurray for Netflix streaming!That's one of the Best movies I've ever Seen!I Loved Mat Damon's Role...he is my new role model,yes he is.
God isn't a "He" it plainly states that God created man in his own image, male and female created he them." Male AND female are subsets of the set God. The image of God includes the female gender. Let US make man in our own image. If heaven's rockin' don't come knockin'. What? You want him to hang a red kerchief on the the door. I imagine that the conversation proceeded in much the same fashion just prior to my own conception. She said: Let's have a baby. He said:Sure. Something like that, anyways. Gotta keep it clean, ya know.
One of my favorite movies ever. With Jay and Silent Bob to the rescue, anything goes!
I feel I must have missed something, never hearing of this film.
I grew up in Christian Science, where God is described as "Father-Mother God" and children are gently taught that each of us has free will to worship God as we understand God.
Personally, the God of my understanding has no gender; my God is Principle, Truth, Spirit, Love, Life and other intangible concepts. My God is the "I am" whenever I say "I am _____".
God emcompasses gender, otherwise there would be none. God is everything and nothing, at the same time. Matter/antimatter, which may be too heavy a concept. Not trying to be insulting, just trying to stay within the realm of your understanding.
Because women are the smarter sex, and they would have enough sense to never screw up the world like this to where it is today. (j/k)
God is a spirit! That is the word of God. In John Ch.1 It reads, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God. God name is Yeshua or Jesus... cause we baptize in HIS name,(not titles)and we baptize in the name of Jesus (or Jeshua>>>which is Jesus in Hebrew. Besides, I am a woman, and we are strong, but we are also emotional... isn't it good that GOD know all things and knows what he is doing!
Simple answer: "He" isn't.
Language is a tool and words like "he" are sometimes inadequate. Sometimes it shows a cultural bias, as in patriarchal Judaism.
Spirit has no gender in the strictest sense; no genitalia, no glands, no physicality.
Genesis is full of symbols, many of them gender-related. One phrase has Adam being male and female (Adam, the tribe, not the individual?). The story of Noah starts with the cryptic, "men had daughters." Didn't they also have sons? Somehow, in the old Judaic symbology, the feminine had negative connotations -- Eve in the garden, the daughters who seduced the sons of God. And even in the "female" side of the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" found in Genesis 4 with the lineage of Cain, the murderer.
Somehow, the English term "it" doesn't cut it for me, but a gender neutral term would seem to be preferred, if only English had one.
Trouble is, these guys don't actually want the answer, only an excuse to argue, ridicule, belittle etc.
Contrary to wanting to learn, they already know WAY too much.
Your post seems to be rather belittling it's self to most of the folks in this thread.If you consider yourself a teacher with The answers,wouldn't it be prudent to at least be non contradictory with your posts,two have been so far.Of course we[those of us your referring to]may just not be smart enough to grasp your answers,for that I profusely apologise.
Twice you were given the answer.
I rest my case!
You can lead a man to the truth, but you can't make him believe!
There have been many excellent answers given so far,more than two certainly.Yours were not included.
You have no case.just programed dogma that contradicts its self.
Problem is mankind thinks he has it all figured out.
Ever sat a while and watched ants scurrying here n there oblivious to our ,knowledge,wisdom and power.
Now spare a thought for how God sees us and feels compassion for us.
The problem is that when people think of he or she, they only think of genitals. It is not that God is both he and she it is some other pronoun we are yet to invent which has nothing to do with being male or being female. We use 'he' for the simple reason as to give an impression of physical power and streagth because certainly, average man is physically stronger than an average woman and in ancient days with no machines, physical stregth was of much value. Could they use she, it could give an impression of physically weak God, an undesirable artribute for God. Lastly, God is whatever it is. It does not depend on what we want it to be.
"LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS." Is not the royal we. "God created man, male and female created he them".
IN SHORT: "Me and the Mrs. decided to have a baby." Got twins? Why does some people think that it says different.
You'll really be upset when you find out that there was more than one Adam.
I've always believed there were more than just two people in the garden and that Adam was the appointed leader in the garden over other people. God totally uses chain of command and people to do His work. But i did not believe this from your example above, other scriptures indicate a populace.
Where did cain find a wife? for example. I doubt Eve let her daughters run off with murderous cain.
That was exactly my point. In Hebrew he/she is actually both male and female when we analyze the names of God. (G-d). One name of God is The Breasy One.. not because we imply he has breasts (lol!) but it's the symbolism of being the sustainer of life which is a maternal trait.
To correctly ascribe God with a label, would be elohim which properly translated means 'powers'. The Hebrews saw no man or similitude of a man but they experienced God in nature, with power over life and death, and over the cosmos as creator, etc.
Since in all actuality God is not a male nor female, he or she would not be 100% accurate.
She would be even less accurate as eve was created second and God is second to nothing.
He is better ascribed because man is the power symbol and God is all powerful.
The translators of the bible preferred to keep 'he' as it maintained the flow of scriptures and principles.
Now this is a very good post.I'd just like to add one more thing.The Men who wrote the original books,gospels,letters,etc considered women to be inferior Way before they wrote their books etc and Way before some of those books etc were brought together to form the bible.If Jesus/God Had been a women no one would have paid any attention.
And one more"Wordy"thing,there are more books etc Not in the bible than in.So why is that?Read the end of the book of John and even He says there's more than whats in the bible.
There are 20 odd gospels missing in reality.
Not to worry though, they make no more sense than the measly four that are there now.
Ya got me Earnest!I never said they made sense,just that there not in there.And there are a whole lot of fragments of gospels that aren't even counted so there may have been hundreds of nonsensical books floating around.
I personally,have joined Mavens church of Frisbeetarianism where upon death your soul flies up on the roof and gets stuck there:D
over 200.. i see you are still well informed and concerned about putting out accurate information in reality
Where did you get 200 from? Is this an example of your accuracy?
so much for reading and comprehending... there's a link below It was written just moments after the post you attempted to respond to.
Is this how you studied the bible? No wonder you came to the conclusion you did.
No point tryin to justify your conclusion.
As i am interested in the opinions of people about christianity i am not interested in the opinions that failed christians have, its like taking advice about fixin a car from a failed mechanic
Reading your reply here makes me wonder whether you would consider your words an example of christianity at its finest.
Would you say that Jesus calling the pharisees, vipers and whitewashed tombs was Christianity at its finest? You need to learn about context. When Jesus went into the temple and found those selling things and he made a whip and cracked warning shots over their heads and chased them out... Christianity at its finest?
Sometimes people don't need the kind of love that just cuddles them, they need to hear whasup; reality in the face, if you prefer, or to be reminded of what is wrong.
I'm sorry if you don't like it, but each situation needs to be handled independently. Remember i wrote to a member who is only out to destroy and is not interested in any good thing about this forum. A satan, if you will... and how do Christians handle a satan?... we rebuke them.
Please note if at any time any destroyer gives his heart to God, repents and lives his life for the Lord my posts will reflect such actions with unparalleled niceness.
If you wanna be nice to him, go ahead. You have your function and i have mine.
I suppose if you are going to put yourself on the same footing as your God himself, then of course you get to make your own rules. I guess they'll just have to pen a New New Testament to tell the story of your time among the little people. What will the new commandment be since the two Yeshua seemed fond of aren't very convenient?
Lovely! You say who YOU are... yet again.
I will let others decide how they take this.
You are not very good at doing much except making slimy personal attacks and exposing yourself are you?
Yah, truth hurts doesn't it. Just gives you more to deny.
If you weren't so bent on just destroy, destroy, destroy then i would treat you as a rational being who is able to understand but you consistently care nothing for God or his word or his people.
What you have stated speaks volumes of you also. I just am able to nail your psychosis on the head.
If at any time you repent and give your heart to God I will most likely be your best brother. Until then you do devils work and devils pay I am inclined to give you. Reap what you sow.
You can avoid all this 'revealing of your sloppy interpretations and mistruths and destructive intents' if you try to talk reasonably in christian threads or just leave altogether, perhaps repentance will find you outside the house, if ever you decide to pause from trolling the christian forum.
I know there are more books.
The canon rules for inclusion were simple and exacting. I agree with canon.
here's a list of well over 20 and some reasons of exclusion.
I have read many of them and consider them all to be excluded for very good and obvious reasons.
Yes, they disagree with your belief system!
and yours too
you even failed at trying to be funny once again
Lets go a little deeper... so you studied psychology you say... were there any psychologists theories you disagreed with .... and why would you disagree? because they didn't fit your belief system... food for thought cobbie!
No! The men who wrote bible never considered women as infirior. You would have understood it if alongside your question you also asked why is the devil, antichrist and satan also an he?
If the "men who wrote the Bible" didn't consider women inferior, then how come there are no "women who wrote the Bible"?
This is a Joke huh?Are you serious with this?Have you not read the old testament where men Owned women=property?
The new testament[canonical]doesn't do much better though it is a step forward.These days,women"of faith"are still subject to their husbands authority.Wow,This post boggles my tiny mind.
god is obviously not a woman or she would still be out picking the colours for the first stars and would not have got around to choosing our colours yet, can you imagine the colours and patterns we would have ended up instead of that boring old black and white !
Good point. I was thinking more of the radical and extreme changes: One minute beautiful sunny weather, then all the volcanoes blow at once in total rage for five minutes. Then it rains buckets all over the world for 10 minutes. More beautiful sunshine, but then hurricanes scream in from every point of the compass, followed by more sunshine.
All the while the earth bloats with extra water. For 1 week out of every four. Life would be...difficult.
(ducks and runs for cover)
Oh but think just how much more would get achieved in only 3 weeks
Just sayin ..hehe
You may be right, at that! There isn't much time between the football games and cursing the golf ball to do much.
OMG!Thank you thank you thank you!You just explained everything I've been trying to understand about my GF!OMG! Thank You!
You seem not to understand one thing; not writting bible does not mean that you are inferior. The master himself, Jesus, never wrote one yet he is considered superior. It was just not the hobby of women then! You may find one woman out of hundred men playing chess. Are chess men considering women inferior or are women themselves not interested in it?
When use an external mandate like a book for the authority for your life, you cant argue with a book, it can't talk. No argument, no discussion. Which leaves only the authority of force. A man's job.
"I would say more than a slight lead"
It is woman starting and fighting all the wars in the world as well as arming them.
well, not in every culture there is just "he". "She" might be too.
Indian Lakshmi and others too...
Only a female god would put a man's genitalia on the outside. This can cause no end of problems.
God's image is male and female. If God is all male, how come? A male human isn't all male, unless you want to convince the mother she had nothing to do with the baby. A female human isn't all female, a father being needed to make one. The image stays true throughout mankind.
Well, no one knew that Darth Vader was actually Luke Skywalker's father, but, we all had seen Luke's mother in the original first episode. So, we knew that he had to have a father. It also helps if you read it.
I'm not a big star wars fan. Perhaps that is why I have no idea what your post is saying, or what it has to do with external genitalia.
Just kidding. Actually, Genesis does say that about the image. Further, there was more than one Adam, and Eve was a branch of that "tribe", yet her creation is hauntingly familiar to modern cloning techniques, right down to bone marrow for a growth medium. There is more which a modern eye can see with careful dissection of the text.
not really a good point at all.
Druid has confused what occurs on OUR plane of existence - human flesh and what goes on in the SPIRITUAL plane of existence.
The two are definitely not comparable.
IF God were female, mans genitalis wouldn't be so close to the ground.
Actually, the text also clearly points out that God did not create Man by himself. "Let US create Man in OUR OWN IMAGE and after OUR OWN LIKENESS, further, the original language referring to "God" was ELOHIM which is plural.
Don't I vaguely remember that Enoch talked about the Elohim as being a people ? The people who flew him north to show him frozen (crystal) trees and took him to meet the 'preists' of what appears from the text to be the white 'houses' (that have recently been reconstructed from their ruins) in Ireland. I can't remember the names but can look them up I guess.
Please do. I am interested in what you are saying. I have a lot which points to Ireland/Scotland as being central to a major discovery.
The people were the Tuatha De Danann the first iron age people to arrive in ireland . Their advanced culture with 'magical' skills such as iron working entered myth to deify them to subsequent peoples. The mound of Newgrange, of which the outside wall is of white quartz stone, is the building that fits the description of Enoch. The Tuatha De Danann are described in the Irish oral history as light skinned and fair haired and were a sea-faring people. There is also a story that can be read as being of a Princess from the middle east being sent to "her people" in Ireland for safety. She is supposed to have brought magical 'things' with her.
It has been suggested that the Princess and the people were the same race and the 'things' she brought were the racial stuff of the kings of that culture and herself as the seed of the kings. That idea is attractive but not so well supported by any real evidence from the oral history.
Yep! I know.
I was just joking earlier.
i haven't really felt very Yakidy lately.
guess i should sit back and listen some more.
but then ... that can be depressing too sometimes.
there seems to be too much negativity every where I look.
Here are a few happy thought Jerami.
The bible is a pile, god is a myth, jesus never existed and we are as free as we want to be!
life is wonderful and beautiful, the planet is a gem, children warm our hearts, as do family and friends, and we can be as happy and well adjusted as we choose to be, and real love has no strings attached.
The sad exceptions are.
The clinically depressed, who need help to balance their mind chemistry, and the religiously indoctrinated, who need psychological help.
Not the ones I know!
There are as many bad shrinks as there are bad motor mechanics, but with a bit of skill they are both avoidable.
You are on to something here with regard to the creation of world and sex !! Only a female could be such an incompetent planner that she would site the toilet right on the playing field !
God is definately a He!
Why else would women have to tolerate, a monthly cycle, and the burden of child birth.
And why would women have been surpressed throughtout time, and is still surpressed in many countries still today.
God is definately a He!
Almost all of you are wrong because you seem to think that God is a person. God is an hyperperson. God is not both male and female, he is neighther male nor female, neighther likes nor dislike, neighther good nor bad. Is the sun a male or a female? Why do people call earth the mother? Was the earth invented by women? Of course in reality, the earth is neighther a father nor a mother. Same applies to God. English language don't have a pronoun used when sex is irellevant. Some other languages do have.
Has anyone considered that this may all be a question of semantics,preferred words?That what each of us understand about the nonphysical world is the same overarching principle that Religion,science,philosophy,etc,is attempting to understand and explain.Could we all be talking about the same thing but from a different point of view?What ever path each has chosen is his/her own path.Men/women are like rivers.We come from the same source and end at the same place,each following a Unique path that none have the right to force change upon.I started this thread for a fun debate and haven't been disappointed.Thanks to all of you for participating and may God,Allah,Buddha,Einstein,Nietzsche,Obama,Brad Pitt,Donald Duck,the flying spaghetti monster,etc,etc,bless you all.
God is neither women and men.
God is Spirit.God is a energy.
God is present in every things.
That my dear is totally and completely impossible. You can make a god whatever you like within reason, words have actual meaning and boy oh boy you better get a better handle on that word!
Well my dear neighbour ,first of all I didnt make God ,He made me,and secondly I used the word Omnipresent (its such a BIG word ,dont ya think) because thats what I believe
I sure youre not the only one to think I dont have a handle on the word ,much less deserve to use it -but its very relevant and the reality is God is the only deity who can claim the honour
I would like you to explain this omni-ness to me in a way that has meaning, but I am off to bed now.
I am over the total lack of a challenge on the religious threads.
I have met Lord Daniel and Jack on these forums and that should not be legally able to happen to a mere human being such as myself.
So many nutters, so little time!
that means god is in the devil and in horse poo too
...If God wants to be in those things then sure.
Why he was once in you
Point is He is God -
All of the time
Not even half way there!
Even your god doesn't get to water down the meaning of words EagleKiwi.
As I said before it's not even remotely viable to be Omnipresent
Sure it is, Earnest. All the universe is actually a pimple on the tip of Gods nose. Therefore it but a small part of God and therefore a part of God is everywhere in our universe. All it takes is imagination.
Not quite, even if we are a pimple on god's nose.
Everywhere is a very big and small place that would incorporation more than can be written here.
Paraglider summed it up with brevity on another thread some weeks ago. I may go and find it.
Size means nothing.
We think of size in relation to ourselves.
The universe is big indeed but we have over 3 trillion cells in our body. Thats a big number in a small area.
there is small, incredibly small
and there is big, incredibly big.
But obviously to God the universe is not big enough.
We don't need to be 100 feet tall for God to consider us to be important.
Time: it has a limit, we are born we die.
God has no time limits
God has no spacial limits.
God is not amazed at what we are amazed at.
once in me - ie was, in past, not now - so not omnipresent.
and do you consider me to be lower than the devil & horse poo?
LOL, I always get a chuckle from those types of meaningless fantasy laden quips.
God is everything, the cancer that kills you, the tsunami and the tornado that wipes you out, the starving child begging for a morsel of food, the ruling despot, the pedophile and the serial killer. Hilarious.
How did ypu get fantasy laden out of all of that? All the bad things...but all of the good things too. And everything in between. We're all connected and a part of the universal spirit. Some people call it God. You find that impossible? That life is interwoven and connected?
I'm not sure what interwoven and connected life has to do with gods?
"God is energy"
Why would someone give a well-defined concept another label? In fact, we could probably find ample scriptures that would contradict gods being energy. Labeling gods as energy simply piles on confusion and contradiction and of course, begs the question. I see that little more than an indoctrinated belief coupled with an ignorance of energy.
"God is present in every things."
That has got to be one of the most fantasy laden statements of them all. Nowhere is there any inkling of gods in anything. In fact, we find nothing but contradiction and hypocrisy when we begin looking at things in that regard. But again, another indoctrinated belief.
"God is outside of everything!"
Utterly meaningless, even by definition. If the universe is all there is, how can anything be outside of it? Gods would have to part of the universe in order to interact with it. Even in science, they never refer to anything outside our universe, it simply doesn't make any sense. I see that statement more of a position of authority and ignorance than anything else.
"Some people call it God."
Okay, based on what, exactly? Where would they get such an idea if not from religious indoctrination coupled with their ignorance of the world around them. How does that help to explain anything? They could just as easily call it a lollipop.
I think it might have everything to do with the word god. I agree, believers have a maddening manner of attributing everything to God, but look at the sentences you wrote.
God is energy.
God is present in everything.
God is outside of everything.
Some people call it God.
If you change the word god to energy, all the sentences are true. Energy permeates every part of our world. It's inside of us and outside of us. And energy is more amazing every time we solve another piece of the riddle.
I'm not saying it is alive, but maybe that interwoven connection of energy is what people feel on some level and they mistook it for something else and built religion around it. Maybe the simple answer is that word was the first label for energy, because civilization wasn't able to define it any better.
Uh, then why not just call it energy? What is the point of calling it god? And again, if we refer to scriptures, we will find contradictions.
No problem then, we do away with religions and gods and stick to calling it energy. Therefore, we can all agree on it and it won't start any conflicts or wars and we don't have to worship it.
There's no point in using different names, except for the fact that we don't know everything about it yet. Once we do, we're all going to be on the same page.
God was the first attempt at a theory of everything. It's been tweaked over the years, but that theory won't disappear until we know everything. It may take a while.
About what, gods or energy. The former is true while the later is well understood.
No, god is not a theory, by definition of a theory.
Not to be difficult, but you aren't looking at all of the definitions of theory, perhaps. I copied these from the free online dictionary.
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
I think we can both agree religionists believe themselves to be defined by this one..whether we agree with them, or not.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
This one may fit also.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
Sounds like a fit.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
Number 6 would be my choice for the best fit.
Not really, No6 still requires some 'limited' information or knowledge - and there is none, not one tiny piece of info and therfore no 'knowledge', just conjecture. So this does not apply either.
I believe it might. Like I told Beelzedad. There may be something to the connectivity of energy that's been misinterpreted into a belief in God. Or not. Maybe some people are tuned into it subtly. We know there's a connection. We don't know all of the properties involved yet.
I like to think there is an explanation for things. Anyone can read the Bible and see it's crazy on so many levels, but people continue to believe. I don't like to think people are delusional, or of lesser intelligence; so there has to be a reason they claim they feel 'the spirit'. Throw indoctrination on top of that subtle feeling of connectivity and you've got full blown religion.
You are claiming that the idea of god might be to do with energy - and then claim the theories of energy for a god. There is no link except in your 'believe it might be something . . ' You can claim theory for the existence of energy but you cannot jump that across to any idea of a god. I can show you energy if you care to hold these two wires, an invisible something, that is described as electrical energy, will knock you flat on your back - no god involved and it does not in any way transfer to any idea of a god. So no - there is no workeable theory of a god, just an idea that poeple try to prove retrospectively, which is not proof it is just wishful thinking.
Wow. You do jump to a conclusion. I stated that this might be an explanation for their belief. No god. A misunderstanding.
And, no thanks..I've been shocked before. No need to do it again. This has more to do with studies in entanglement assisted teleportation. How manipulating energy in one place effects it in another.
Unlike many, who simply belittle and berate, I am trying to find some method to the madness.
What method to what madness ?
Experiments in energy and how it works have no relationship with any idea of a god - energy is a physically present element of how things work. The idea of a god is a metaphysical issue that is unproveable, unsupported by any evidence and is to do with thought processes. No connection.
The method to the madness of religion. I'm not talking about the existence of a god. I'm wondering about the existence of the belief in god. Why does it persist? I think if people didn't perceive a 'feeling' in some way religion wouldn't be as potent. Not in the west, at least.
And energy is an amazing little thing. There's nothing simple about it once you get down to the basic levels. Articles on quantum physics read like science fiction sometimes. There's a major connectivity that hasn't been fully explained.
It sounds completely insane. I realize. But there has to be a reasonable and logical explanation why religion persists. I don't buy into the argument that so many people are simply ignorant. It comes off as arrogant and counter productive in the effort to find solutions to the problem.
You are making too much of the thing in my opinion.
Religion is the equivalent of people looking into the back of a TV to try to see the people and things inside.
The TV provides representations based on what we know and so has a foot in reality in the same way as a video of you doing something is really you, and yet it is still only a representation. Looking into the unknown is similar to looking in a mirror, we see ourselves as if we are the other side of the mirror in a different place, we can then populate that 'different place' with images from our imagination, and we can really do that if we place that image behind us as we look in the mirror - now, in the mirror there is a real place containing yourself and your imagination. That is what people see and think is real. If you are aware that this is all a representation that contains the contents of your reality and your imagination then you are thinking metaphysically, if you don't understsand then it is at least half-real.
So yes I think religion is based in ignorance.
..It wasnt ignorance that moved me to donate funds to 'Save the Panda' and the White Tiger and the Whale...and World Hunger..
But I respect youre opinion,and your freedom to express it Mr Panda
And it was not any existence of a god either Ms Eaglewiki, it was your own desire to 'help' in some respect which is to do with society and our general environment.
I think you are confusing ignorance as in a person who is an 'ignorant git' with ignorance which is just action without thinking, or simply lack of information.
That's a very nice explanation of the phenomena of religion. I have no doubt it could very well be a large part of the answer as to why the masses continue to believe.
But the reasons people cite for following religion vary widely. I would tend to think those that are truly 'spiritual' in their approach would argue the point. I think some people (a miniscule number) do display a degree of enlightenment as to a bigger picture.
Perhaps, it's simply wishful thinking on my part. But I see tiny threads of hindu and buddhist philosophy reflected in our unfolding understanding of the world. I think the ancients were onto something. They just didn't know what it was.
They had all the answers - most people are just too wound up in the nonsense that comes from religion being a controlling force in life and especially in the media - too blinded by so much BS that it appears to be more than stupid.
The answer has always been there, it still is there, it just is not an answer that benefits any controlling interest, it is just for you and only useful to you. Go find a real Buddhist (not one of the confused new-age Babblerbuddhists), ask them directly what is the anwer and they will tell, you. It may take a lifetime for you to work out what it means, but at least you will know what you are aiming at
What you are aiming at and what I'm aiming at apparently don't intersect. I respect the intelligence level of each and every person; and the mystery of life itself. Anyone certain of answers is certainly in fear of losing the ability to progress in their understanding of the intricacies of life.
Simple, it persists because of indoctrination.
I don't agree at all. Although difficult to wrap ones head around it as like many physical theories that are not intuitive, it still doesn't read like science fiction.
So many people are indoctrinated, which is the reasonable and logical explanation.
Now, you're really stretching it. Unfortunately, the information is lost with entanglement, hence the properties of energy are no longer relevant.
Even that which is in bold is a stretch of the imagination, certainly the rest does not apply at all, and you'll find many believers who would disagree considering the definition has everything to do with facts, testing, making predictions and nature, which sounds a whole lot more like the scientific method.
Perhaps, speculation only. However, believers rarely even do that as it would require them to think and move outside of their absolute biblical explanations based on their indoctrinations.
There are two different definitions for belief, one based on facts and the other based on faith. Believers only deal with the latter and not the former. The above definition refers to the former and not the latter.
I might give you that one, but that is a stretch as well. Information and knowledge that is indoctrinated could very well be false, which is usually the case.
That is nonsense.
There have been thousands ,if not millions of people who acknowledged a 'Higher Power' long before missionaries or even the Bible was understood by them.
Man(kind) has always had a conscience that thinks about ,searches ,denies,accepts that he does not stand alone!
If you doubt me ,read about peoples experiences during their last hour of life. Why do they often have second thoughts about their after-life.
Or, when a life changing event changes someones life ,why then do they think about their future and question their worth ,purpose ie
"Whats life all about"?
'Where did I come from-Where am I going'
No ,our human bodies were created with functioning abilities AND our souls were created with desires and a spiritual purpose too.
Man(kind) was never meant to 'just exist' He was created with a very definate purpose and the ability to experience life in ALL its fullness.
That is my desire and my goal to live til my cup over runneth and to encourage others to have love ,joy and happiness in ALL its fullness...
Kiwi, Agreed God is the Higher Power. We are not here to simply exist, enjoy life and die. Those are some very good questions you have posted above. Some seem to think we came into existence from a part of a dead animal. That's ridiculous.
But what if that was the case? Would you lose the desire to live? I think the will to live supercedes any beliefs that we may acquire along the way.
I don't live by "what if." I know for certain there is a creator whether you believe it or not. Feel free to continue guessing whether you came into existence from a dead animal or some type of stardust.
No one is guessing WOC, we are able to support it with real time scientific imperical evidence and calculations that must be supportable across a dozen scientific disciplines, that is what a scientific theory is.
Do you know how to arrive at a theory WOC?
Do you know of any theory that supports a god?
Remember it has to be a theory.
Refutable and supported from outside it's own belief.
Hi earnest, Science is interesting. What real time scientific imperical evidence and calculations did you all come up with? What scientific theory supported we all came into existence from a dead animal or stardust? I accept God by faith so I don't have to prove to anyone that he exist. The evidence of God has been real in my life, and there is nothing psychotic about it.
Happy to oblige. Please watch it with an open mind, then make a comment that is related and we can discuss it.
earnest, I have watched it with an open mind as I do anything else. Jesus is my personal Lord and Savior. Lawrence Krauss can not demand me to forget Jesus. This man has no scientific evidence to support that we all came from stardust. He is just making assumptions. We came from a star that exploded? What a joke. If you want to put your faith in Lawrence Krauss, go right ahead. I choose to put my faith in God's word. I believe that God created the stars and the whole universe, and we are not made of stardust. Genesis 2:7- And the Lord God God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
heres a theory; even a formula:
get on your knees, ask God for forgiveness for all your past sins. Then invite Him to take control of your life and have His way. Thank Jesus who rose from the dead and now gives life to you. Add some personal stuff and thank Him again.
Be honest and be sincere
then be saved and immediately, know God.
Tried all of that 30 years ago. washes away with learning fortunately for me.
odd the exact opposite happened for me. I wish you hadn't responded because personally, given your agenda, i don't believe you at all.
So you don;t know what a theory is either?
That's exactly what you do do.
You hope there is a creator. You cannot know for certain, and to say so is an out-right lie. Only reason being is because the "theory" that makes up the "God" concept hasn't actually been proven. It's based on conjecture.
That's exactly what you think I do. I will say it again. I know without a doubt there is a creator. It's very rude of you to falsely accuse me of being liar just because you don't know for certain. If you seek God, you will know for yourself. The evidence of God in my life is all I need.
Utter nonsense. There is NO need for a god. Each person has the ability to be their own authority. If you need a god to be your authority, then you are not responsible for your self. Plain and simple. You are not being true to yourself. There is NO decision that has to be made in your life, that actually requires a god. You make them all. You make all your choices. In doing so, there isn't an actual need for a god. YOU ARE YOU'RE OWN AUTHORITY!
What part do you not understand?
Go work at a job under an employer and tell him or her "I AM MY OWN AUTHORITY! You won't be employed there very long. No need to scream at me. It's just a waste of time. I choose to be humble and allow God ( our creator) to lead and guide me and I have no problem with it. If you choose to be filled with pride and arrogance, go right ahead Cagsil. It sure seems to bother you that christians believe God is the creator. I do not believe you. God is the Supreme being, and I need him in my life.
Sorry, but are you now equating the contract one has with his employer with your obedience to your god?
That really is grasping at straws, WoC.
Bad reference. In that aspect, it just goes to show again you lack understanding. Not a surprise.
You're right, you are, but that doesn't mean I cannot try, since it's my time.
Actually, you refuse to be responsible. Good to know.
It's not pride or arrogance. But, you wouldn't know the difference now would you. As for you being humble? It's not you being humble, but gullible.
Yes, it bothers me, because you people cause more damage than you're worth.
Then, you admit to be irresponsible about being honest with yourself. Good to know.
the hope we speak of is biblical hope - a hope that is based on Gods' infallibility, his unlying truth, his love and his plan for us. These hopes when biblically based are unalterable, unfailing and sure.
The hope of the world always has a smidgeon of doubt in it because that kind of hope is based on things it cannot control, favorable circumstance and its more wish based than our biblical hope which is God based.
You're joking right? You post this garbage as a response. Please, if you actually used the authority you claim with regards to religion, in your life and threw out the nonsense, you might actually be productive and a benefit to others. As it stands now, you're only blowing smoke and telling everyone else that YOU require to be told how to live. Nice to know you cannot take care of yourself.
Your assumptions are.. well just that, assumptions.
I am totally productive and a benefit to others.
Yes i require how to be told to live a life pleasing unto God. I do not deny that. God teaches me how to live a life in His Spirit and because of that what i am now i will not be in 5 yrs, next year or for the rest of my life. My life is an ongoing creation! I have not stopped evolving, i have not stopped growing and learning. I will achieve more wisdom, insight and love. My life is not a finished work, my life is just being created, each day, newness is born, revelation and understanding. I say good things and i edify people, i even bring people to salvation and i get to watch their lives transform and i get to watch, even help in their spiritual understanding of God and they show me the joy they have in their new life.
Yes i require that God teach me everyday how i might emulate Him and my old self diminished constantly in the light of spiritual revelation.
Its a far better life. A life in God and through it all, i brush my teeth, feed myself and bathe and vaccuum and all the things that i need to do to take care of myself.
The garbage that you only see, is another persons treasured stash. A life with hope in God sees the glass as always full. Your negativity and rash judgments I can live without and so could you.
Hows your liver?
No assumption. Just simple rationale that escapes you.
Actually, that's untrue. And I know better, just by your actions and words used. It is obvious you have no love for others, because you've not loved yourself. That's evident, because you obviously cannot be honest with yourself, which is key. Too bad you cannot tell the difference.
And, that tells me you're not actually a benefit to society. Thank you for confirming that.
Openly admitting you need to be told how to live, is not a surprise.
It just shows you lack self responsibility, that's all.
Apparently your god didn't think to teach, your role in this world. What a shame. You would have thought that your god would have seen what conflict you would cause and find something more peaceful for you. Not surprising coming from a religious viewed believer.
You've deluded yourself into believing that. When the actual truth is completely opposite.
Apparently you have a comprehension problem or just not understanding.
Too bad you don't realize you're damaging other people. Another shame.
Ironically, you are teaching yourself by experiencing living, yet fail to grasp that simple concept.
Nope, but nice try. I see your actions here and proves everything you say is B.S. No changing that, even if you say something different.
Actually, it's not negative nor am I making rash judgments. I am judging the only thing I can ever judge and that is your actions.
You're insinuation that I drink is actually absurd. I don't drink alcohol. But, nice try at defaming me. Must be nice to actually pass judgment on someone who is pointing out your faults. Yeah, faults, the ones you don't actually see.
I agree sister.Tell the truth and shame the devil.
Apostle, I just like to be real. It's sad when a individual feel a need to berate or belittle someone in order to feel good. I still have joy.
Feel the need to berate or belittle? Ironically funny. Pure dishonesty and nonsense. You cannot even tell the difference between fantasy and reality. How sad and pathetic.
That's your opinion. Find someone else to pick on.
No, WOC, some seem to think we came into existence from a part of a LIVE animal. Which is even more ridiculous. A rib cannot magically turn into a woman.
Just like there were religions that have exactly the same stories as Christianity, long before Christianity existed.
Who cares if they acknowledged it? You acknowledge it, too, but still doesn't make it true.
That's nice, do you have a point?
What second thoughts? What are you talking about? Are you making the ridiculous claim that there are no atheists in foxholes?
Because, that is a logical thought process.
Why did I wear two different socks this morning?
LOL. That is nonsense. Souls have never been shown to exist nor is there any evidence whatsoever we were created. Right back to religious belief again. Where is your evidence of that outside of the bible?
I live by faith and His grace is sufficent for me
Now,what was your point?
I think you are being pushed into a ridiculous position and you should resist answering - I have come to respect you more than such bullsh!t answers display.
You clearly have a spiritual side and you are arguing on the side of devalued religion. You are bigger than that.
Stories similar to Christianity....hmmm.. i don't think so....
Christianity is not works based... there is nothing we can do to earn salvation, no other belief has this.
Christ died on the cross for everybodies sins - no other belief has a son that dies for our redemption.
These are just two huge differences that Christianity has that all other beliefs do not.
Christianity preaches all are sinners and need repentance, no other religion preaches this
Christianity has a history rich in power, miracles, signs and wonders.
Christianity has a God who loves.
Karma is the reworking of Gods' "reap what you sow".
Elohim and the plural form of God was used because the Hebrews saw God as in charge of everything, many separate things, whereas the other religions, at that time, 5,000 years ago - had Gods who WERE created things and they served many Gods but the God of the bible corrected this and said... There is only one God and I am that I am.
There are not so many other similar beliefs as you would have us to believe.. and i further believe, belie that the sound of the buzzer is definitely needed here.
The soul to the Hebrews was the body with the animated animal life.
Plato invented the soul as a separate entity, like a spirit.
Plato was wrong.
'Allah, Buddha, Monster... etc.' you forgot one woman; Blavatsky!
But the image is also a spiritual image. Sexual ambiguity is actually papal dogma. The inclusion of a sexual difference is indicative of the true nature of Man, male and female, to God, the Father. This is an early description of "Family", learning to walk, separation from the Father/Mother influence. In short, it is the story of birth, life, death, AND rebirth. The medicine wheel, the karmic wheel. Moses must have been a genius...or, no1 That couldn't possibly be! First Contact.
then why do christians say they have a personal relationship with god if god is not a person?
God is a person. He is slightly more complicated than little minds can grasp.
Maybe they tore your foundation out.
People's opinions do not define God. I think your foundation may be nonexistent on absolutes.
She simply meant God is not one of you. He is God. Three people. Yet one being.
I know you WANT to understand God. Unfortunately you have to believe in Him to even start to.
As if your opinions could change God...
Yes, only a mind big on delusion could grasp this whimsical nonsense.
No, I have no foundation...but yours has nothing at all to support it. And you know it. But honesty is not for the fearful blind follower.
Yes they do. In the U. S. God is a white male.
Correct. We actually exist.
Yep. Only great minds can grasp such a concept as that! This seems like insanity to the mere intelligent person.
There is NO evidence for a God. What an indoctrinated mind.
Gullible, childish, ridiculous nonsense. Now do you see why I use the analogy of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or I could use the Ju Ju God of the Sea...but, I suggest, you have to believe in them first to even start. Absurd!
Your God is imaginary. What is there to change? How absurd.
Why is this type of childish nonsense resorted to by, supposedly, adult believers. This only makes the believer look foolish, and lose any semblance of credibility, along with respect.
By totally avoiding the rigors of debate...like a child...believers think that they, somehow, win by default.
As an adult, I would be ashamed.
And you should be.
You should read some of your posts that fit your description.
And it's childish to call me childish for not continuing to argue with you endlessly.
I also wonder where you got that extraordinarily cocky assumption that you know what I was thinking as if you had a clue...
I do know what you think: GODDUNNIT!!!
My statement stands, as is. You have shown a genuine lack of credibility, and a propensity for childish aggression whenever your delusional propositions are dismantled.
I'm not surprised. When you support a philosophy that's based upon fraud, you can't help but end up with egg on your face...when held to accountability.
I see a complete lack of credibility, integrity, self-respect and maturity is required to adopt your Philosophy.
Sorry, but I can't stoop to the level of a Christian.
'god isn't a person'..'god is a person'
christians can't agree again
do you agree with everyone?
Silly statement to make.
what's so silly about pointing out that you are all really inconsistent about this god you supposedly have a relationship with
The silly part is ,you ask a question,I provided a logical answer,but you still insist on saying that Christians are inconsistent.
Therefore you will understand why I wont answer anymore of your 'silly' questions.
Yes, it is, because when we talk about nature and the world around us, we can easily agree as nature is right in front of us.
Your god is the most important thing in your life and you can't even agree if it's a he or a she or even a person at all.
Yup, pretty silly.
Well you do surprise me!
Surely you are not basing this knowledge via an internet forum.
Shame on you ,oh learned one
Should prove to you ,that we have minds of our own. But it wont.
Now ask me how I knew that
No, it doesn't show that at all, it merely shows that in light of any evidence whatsoever, you have to make stuff up.
According to you ,not God.
Who should I believe-hmm
You've been indoctrinated to believe in myth and superstition, which you use to make stuff up when your beliefs are questioned or criticized. That has been made amply evident in your posts.
Don't believe Beelzebobble - just look deep within your reasoning and find for yourself any real evidence for your belief - then accept that your personal view of spirituality does not need to include any sheep-herders god, or any modern day babble punchers and you will find you are in exactly the place you are now but without any bullsh!t
The Bible is the dictation and the agreement.
Those that don't agree with it, decided they knew more than God.
Those that claim they believe in Him at least. We are already aware you don't.
And of course.. of course...
Nature is YOUR god... lol
It sure is nice to see you religionists agree with one another, makes your explanations so clear and concise with no degrees of confusion or contradiction.
Oh and you agree with everyone BD? ..tsk tsk...
Um at least be consistent with your atandards!
But all Christians must agree?
I agree with the laws of our universe, which can be shown to work the way they are supposed to work. I can conduct experiments that yield exactly the same results each time. The same would apply to everyone else.
Because, that is what your holy book and your god commands Christians to do. If you can't even agree if on the very basic and elementary aspects of your religion, what good is it to anyone?
I think I'll defend the Christians on this one. I don't think their book says they have to agree on anything other than that Yeshua is their salvation. Even the early Christians disagreed on the idea of who he was, in relationship to God.
If there was documentation within their scriptures that there was confusion on that point in the beginning, how could it be argued that they must now all agree?
Of course they did, and they always will disagree despite what their holy book commands them to do. If they never had a scratch of evidence to go on, how could they possibly agree on anything outside of their scriptures.
It's like if you and I were to discuss the properties and characteristics of a leprechaun, how could we possibly agree on anything outside a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow?
The point of my comment wasn't whether any of their arguments had a leg to stand on. The point was that expecting Christians to agree is ignoring the facts of the history of Christianity. It is a religion that has always been in conflict. It doesn't bother them that they've never reached a consensus. The answer is invariably because they are the true Christian, the other is not.
No, it is ignoring the facts of reality and embracing fantasy due to indoctrination. Their minds are mush and cannot function critically or rationally. How can anyone expect them to agree on anything at all let alone their own gods?
Beelze.. That is sad.
People disagree about EVERYTHING.
Including you and all those who believe in studying the postulates...
But you don't agree on ANYTHING.. lol
Hmmm. Sound familiar?
Nice try applying that characteristic to ONLY Christians.
As if that's not a human trait.
But, you must admit his argument has merit. Especially the part where he said Christians are ignoring the facts of reality and embracing fantasy due to indoctrination. Their minds are mush and cannot function critically or rationally.
That part won't get any argument from me.
Yes, the believers world is disagreement of their beliefs. Is god a person, is god a spirit, is god a dolphin singing, "So long and thanks for all the fish"?
Great tune, btw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj_-qaqQ … re=related
No the good book doesnt say that at all.
It says how pleasant it is to dwell in unity!
Some people would rather run around jumping up and down and all kind of ways like a chicken with his head cut off.Rather than except the deity of God in this world.
They have a serious problem.
You really think the foundations are that weak?
If that were the case ,why after 2,ooo years is God still 'an issue'?
If Christ is a myth and all this talk of Christ is nonsense ,why then do men still discuss him
I mean you could be discussing many many other things.
But like a moth to a flame you come.
It has been that way for thousands of years ,and no doubt for all time ,if history is the predictor
Moth to a flame..
Plenty of moths in denial here...
Fly toward the light.
Then say it doesn't exist...
It appears that man is capable of being programmed to a frightening degree, easily!
This might sound good to you, BUT...
Still your God is only imaginary, and is the result of your indoctrination by the society in which you were raised.
No one can even begin to tear down the foundation
I think you mean that No one can change a psychotic mind...because that's all believers have.
The foundation of your beliefs has been thoroughly debunked, however, it is understood, psychologically, that psychosis is a complex disorder.
I agree, and indoctrination allows it to run amok, making claims of great personal worth by proxy. Beliefs such as they are "saved" and others don't yet enjoy this exalted position and need to be taught.
If the illness gets bad enough religionists will murder to support those beliefs to protect that psychosis. the Taliban is a fine example of this.
The process is well understood and can be dealt with by long term psychotherapy.
A full blown psychosis with illusions of grandeur can take up to 6 years,
Not too many psychotics voluntarily seek help, as the psychosis itself holds them away from any learning that would access it.
The main reenforcement is that the leaders of society have sanctioned this mental illness.
Believers can't see that they have been duped, because it appears so normal, in it's context...because that is what has been programmed into their psyche.
Try to dupe them with the same kind of nonsense outside of the context of religion, and most believers will display that they can discern between common sense and outlandish fraudulent nonsense.
It's state sponsored mental illness.
Good point. I have noticed the sword of logos return to religionists when outside their religious conversations.
No its not a good point. Getit and you are both failed religionists and what does one expect from failure? disappointment, anger, bitterness and then self justification.
If there is any psychosis or mental illness going on here, it is not in the ones who believe but in the ones who have failed.
I think any psychologist would agree on that point.
as to indoctrination... indoctrination is good.
there was a class of 10 people, all were given an envelope, including the pastor of the local church. This was a sex education class. The teacher told each member to introduce themselves, shake hands and say hello... the pastor felt disinclined to participate and so sat in his chair by himself as the class went about their assignment.
they were told afterward to open the envelope and the one who had herpes written on the card was to stand up. The person did.
"Now how many people shook hands with this person?" said the teacher, "You all have herpes now".
The pastor stood up and said. "but i didn't shake hands with anyone".
He wasn't infected.
This short story was to inform people that Christianity will keep their children free from the traps, infections, diseases, life ruining experiences that this world has to offer. Unwanted babies, marriages heading toward divorce (yes i know about the percentage of divorced christians but when you add the number of people that break up who just "lived together" the numbers tilt toward less christian break ups by far) and many many hurts.
Christianity will make people speak only truth and deal fairly and honestly with people.
It will give them a very happy afterlife also and much much more.
Cry out against Christianity if you failed religionists must but to indoctrinate your children with a hate for a loving God and not to spare them the indignities of ruined spiritual lives and spread your bitterness onto defenseless children... well.. that's just rude.
Of course now i have to combat the every popular... "WE can do all this without God. WE teach our kids to think for themselves". Often thinking for oneself is not enough. Its a good gamble? I think not.
The riches in christ that you missed out on... its a shame to take away from your children.
Indoctrination or just simple teaching christ, gives them the OPTION of looking at life on this earth in two ways - not just one and a biased one at that.
and good luck with this.
I won't let you create this strawman. You and your insane religion are the failures.
More strawman nonsense and vicious dishonesty. We did not fail religion...religion failed the test of reason.
This story is ridiculous.
I'm fascinated when you just blatantly make stuff up that we know is extremely false.
More fraudulent, made up nonsense.
There is no evidence of this God that you are proposing, so your statement is inane...and insane.
Let me guess...so we need your imaginary, psychotic, murdering God to guide our thinking?
getitrite, You seem to be one miserable person. How immature for you to label us with with a mental illness because of our faith in God.
WOC, sorry, but religious beliefs do fit under the category of mental illness. That is a fact. I'm not the one who concluded this. Andrea Yates murdered her five children, because she said God told her to do this.
Is she mentally ill? NO. Not if you accept the story of Abraham as a great man of God. He, too, said that God told him to kill his son. Andrea Yates and Abraham are the same.
Andrea Yates should become a saint, if you follow this logic, and should go down in Christian history as one of the most faithful and OBEDIANT servants of God. She, like Abraham, set an example that the rest of us are not strong enough, in faith, to follow.
First you have to put your own belief in a category.Your knowledge came from somewhere else other than yourself.You was brainwash by those books.Can you think for yourself?
getitrite, No it's not a fact that believers are mentally ill because you are someone else place us under that category. You really do need to quit. Andrea Yates heard from the devil, not God. I am aware that christians are labeled as "crazy," but that's ok, it just stir me up to praise God even more. My heart is filled with the joy of the Lord. Yes Abraham was a great man of God. Andrea Yates and Abraham are not the same. Didn't you read the remainder of the chapter in the bible? You appear be smart, but when it comes to the bible, you never read it correctly. Abraham did hear from God, but he did not murder his son. God tested Abraham faith and he passed the test. I encourage you to read Genesis 22: 1-13 and you will see that God never intended for Abraham to kill his son.
Well said W.O.C
If one didnt know any better, one would think that all the mentally committed were somehow there because they said 'God spoke to them' or their 'dead mother' or their 'superhero' or a 'fantasy friend' or or or....
Sadly they are mentally unstable ,because they are mentally unstable !!...logical -wow,now that word should make sense to most on here.
We all accept unstable ,and corrupt minds do some pretty evil and wierd things out there Christian and Non-Christian alike.
He is just doing all he knows how to do and that is to speak from alien knowledge,people like that don't know any better.They talk to themselves and bark at the moon,there are people in the world like that.
No WOC and if they cant tear it down ,they have to pretend it doesnt exist..
Like the ostrich with her head in the sand..hehe
We don't have to pretend. Just in case you haven't noticed, after months of being in these forums you believers have not validated ANYTHING, then you say something this brazenly dishonest.
I'm not pretending your God does not exist. Your God is no more real than the monsters our children hear under the bed.
You have NO foundation, all you have is a myth from some ancient's childish imagination.
After months of being in these forums you still think we have to validate anything to you?
I suggest it it you or are delusional.
I dont speak for anyone else ,just myself and I can honestly say
I believe in God and He exists.
God has proved himself to me in many ways.
Its not my job to prove Him to you.
getitrite ,do yougetityet
After accusing me of pretending that something invisible, and not detectable is not there--that you insist is there...YES! It is reasonable to think that.
Why because I'm PRETENDING that something is not there--that I can't see, smell, touch, taste, hear? Please explain to me how one can PRETEND that something is not there, that really ISN'T THERE?
Yes, it does seem like you are being honest, and I know you BELIEVE you are, but, unfortunately, it is just your imagination.
What I get is that you are very angry, because all you have is blind faith in nonsense. Sorry, but that's the truth. When I found out, I said, "Wow, what a bummer?"
It's ok if you lash out in this way. Coming face to face with a delusion can traumatize the psyche.
You have ears but can't hear,you have eyes but cannot see you have a brain but you don't know how it operates.I don't have to prove to you that i am who i am in order to be who i am for I will be who i am whether you believe it or not.
Atheist just don't get it.
I have finally seen the light. I can now hear, see, and feel God, and He told me He hates you, Jack...and He is sending you to that place of misery and toture. OMG!
This didn't come from me, but straight from the loving lips of the most high.
I notice you seem to agree with the MOST irrelevant, and weakest responses in the the ongoing argument. This does not require any logic...only knee-jerk reaction from rigid indoctrination.
Because I am the person ,that makes it personal.
God remains spirit.
Do ya get that ?
yep, your god is an asexual invisible spirit that you are in love with
Words and more words
Whatever floats ya boat -I guess.
Why would a spirit have a gender at all? It is not related or akin to the physical world at all..
God is called a He because He thinks and has feelings and males are dominant and authoritative in this world.
Beelze had a good point. Look at nature.. Which gorilla leads the group?
This will never end with you TRYING to attach the words literally because you don't know what a metaphoric link is.
Yeah, I guess I'm in a personal relationship with pizza,
Because I'm the person, that makes it personal.
The pizza...well...it remains pizza. : : :!!!!
Do you get that Baileybear?
Aww...ya gotta wee friend to play with now- everybody happy now
Baileybear, I got in a little late on the fun. Clicking the reply button landed me way down here. God does not have a physical body like you or us is what I meant. These are some of my personal daily habits. I brush my teeth, floss, shower, eat healthy, and read. Not one of the personal habits which I have listed above is a person. Having a personal relationship with God means we should include God in our daily lives.
with your example, you're just reinforcing the idea that the only person in your relationship with god is yourself
??? Please reread what you have written. Everyone is given the opportunity to have their own personal relationship with God. I am the person, that makes it personal. Sounds familiar? My example above is not as difficult as you are trying to make it.
I thoroughly explained my personal relationship with pizza to Baileybear as well...and she still just doesn't get it.
Yep, she is just trying to make it difficult.
getitrite the further you go in the wrong direction the harder it will be to find you way back to the cross roads.....and the higher you go the harder it will hurt when you hit the ground.
getitrite, Lol, I read the irrelevant example you shared with her. Everyone seemed to think it was very funny. It seems that you have a little sense of humor.
You must believe in that spaghetti thing..
You can't seem to forget it.
And it's also a ridiculous metaphor.
You could at least TRY to do better...
Wow. What an angry insulting religionist. Just because your beliefs are as ridiculous as the Flying Spaghetti Monster is no reason to get angry. Just change your ridiculous beliefs.
No. Your metaphor is ridiculous. And you're the one who is angry.
Have a good one.
You have a good one as well...and remember no working tomorrow...don't even light a fire, or else!
So sayeth the Lord:
On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death. You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)
WORK [verb]~ Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
biblical definitions must occur within the realm of biblical guidelines. Your definition is much too vague. What about heat for the elderly or sick? would it not be a purpose to give them warmth?
Biblically work excludes mercy. All the examples of work on a sabbath revolved around mercy. The sheep in the pit, the healing of the man with the withered hand on the sabbath and heat for the elderly,... etc. These all include mercy.
Lighting a fire can be done by transferring the flame from the oil lamp which was lit before sabbath. The king james says kindle, which means to start a fire from scratch, remember they had no matches or bic lighters, starting a flame from scratch was work, but rarely had to be done.
A neighbors flame can be transported. This simple act of sabbath restrictions serves to remind them that God is the focal point. When i was a child businesses closed on sunday. There was always the day before sabbath to prepare all the stuff needed for sabbath - a beautiful day of rest and relaxation.
Again, number of people recorded having died from lighting fires on sabbath = 0
No they cant do better ,its a little bonding thing they share
I just read a great short story written by a new hubber. We have another useful writer here I reckon. Dont get to see enough of em!
Sorry for getting off topic all, I suggest you go and read her hub.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Fearing-and-Loa … -Las-Vegas
or any of her other hubs, I only read this one, but am confident about the others.
I am back from a fabulous evening at an outside restaurant eating and drinking with good friends and food - you are all talking total sh!te !!!!
God is a he because old (has been, ancient, done with, past, out of date, past their sell by date) civilisations considered man superior to woman - no other consideration, no argument, pure masculine superiority !!!!
And god is a representation of how we think about a higher level of life - nothing to do with religiously twisted b@ll@#cks of how a god thinks or what a god says - all about controlling the sheeple, nothing to do with real people !!!! nothing to do with reality - just mind-cluttfuck to keep the bullsh!t going !@!!
It appears the alcohol flowed as freely as the conversation on your fabulous outing.
It definately did ! I must be talking sense then ?????????????
recommend, Have another drink hows that saying go 'drink drink be merry ,for tomorrow we may die...
. . . .and why should we care if we die - it is the end of the world for us and so what !! enjoy each and every day for what it is, a flash of time in eternity. and enjoy any spirituyality you find in life because it is more than us, more than any religion can describe or understand !
You should definitely drink more often. That statement is about as close to the truth as any will ever get.
I intend to take your advice to the fullest extent as tomorrow is a hooliday - we are about to embark on a day of total self satisfaction with lunch at a steak and/or pizza house and copious beer followed by Pirates of the Carribean 4 in 3D followed by Dinner at a Japanese restaurant in the company of the most beautiful girls in China (my wife anbd others), a Scotsman, a Canadian and their respective families. Eat your hearts out serious people, the party is here
Parties last only for a short while and then the soul quickly empties again and more entertainment is needed. This self centered cycle is ended in Christ and the joy of God is more wonderful than geisha's and movies and especially beer.
Eat your heart out. I can live a life that doesn't rely on the worlds systems.
I guess that is the basic difference, I believe in happiness, caring for others, and living life to the full - you appear to be a party pooper in life and in thought just like those out-of-date puritans who were convinced they knew what was better for everyone and in the name of their god tortured and murdered their way into the history books.
Your party is concerned only with this life.
My party extends far beyond this life and is everyday and continual.
As to the murder and torture please remember that i am not catholic. Please remember that the romans were killing the real followers of Jesus.
Please think about this: if i offer you a self help book - that even if you accept and follow and fail it might have its own psychological repercussions - you will accept it favorably, but when i tell you of eternal life and love and forgiveness to others and helps - you will disdain it.
I appreciate your opinion, but would still rather have facts
LOL! And, you actually believe stuff written thousands of years ago regarding an afterlife is fact?
If a God were to reveal its presence to mankind, I would hope that it would have been at the beginning; yes, thousands of years ago. And if that God had plans of showing up again (Jesus) i would hope that there would be evidence (scriptural prophecy and powerful miracles, something) to assist my faith that God is. A book certainly helps.
I would have problems believing in a god who was negligent in his creations for thousands of years and then out of nowhere popped up and said, Lo i am here... and if that god happened by with no plan for his creations, that is to say, no plan to help them be where He is or no resurrection after this life - for we all die - then i would be completely disappointed and probably a non believer, because if there is no resurrection or chance to be with Him then all is in vain, is it not?
I like the plan that God has made.
Since this God has existed for thousands of years, i would hope that after my short 100, give or take, years, there would be an opportunity to meet Him after my death and since there is, i am exceedingly, joyous.
A few drinks can certainly clear the mind. It all sounds quite sensible.
All this talk about controlling the sheeple. The bible was goin on 4,000 yrs before christ. A people came out of slavery, wandered in a desert, saw great signs and wonders and a holy God lead them through the whole thing. Then some man came along and read the bible and said "this is just about control". The actual truth is that phrase came about much too late, probably about 1,000 yrs too late or 5,000 yrs after God was freeing his people from slavery and is still freeing people from their bondages today. The people who parrot that phrase about control obviously are out of control, the control of God - and maybe even the control of man. The two types of control are not the same.
The transription of the oral record does not tally with the facts as we have exhaustively discussed before. None of the major events appear to have been recorded by the vastly superior civilizations of the time, including the Egyptians who were supposedly robbed of their work force after plagues and dead children - none of it recorded and so certainly a total fabrication to 'big-up' the ancestors of a particular race of nomadic arabs who got to create their own civilization and invented the religion that curses the world with war and hate to this day.
yah.. the egyptians.. vastly superior... Got whipped from the inside.
The egyptians destroyed the statues and memorabilia of their predecessors. With each new pharaoh came new evidence of his majesty and greatness and an erradication of the prior pharaohs achievements.
We need to understand how the ancient world viewed the whole idea of recording history. The vast majority of inscriptions found in the ancient world have a specific agenda -- to glorify the deeds of the king and to show his full military power.
This does not mean that early civilizations did not record events. It’s just that their purpose was more propaganda than creating any kind of objective historical record
The British Museum in London displays inscriptions from the walls of the palace of the Assyrian Emperor, Sancheriv. These show scenes from Sancheriv's military campaigns from the 8th century BCE, including graphic depictions of destroyed enemies (decapitations, impailings, etc.). Sancheriv himself is depicted as LARGER than life.
But one element is missing from these inscriptions: There are no dead Assyrians! That is consistent with the ancient "historical" style -- negative events, failures and flaws are not depicted at all. When a nation suffers an embarrassing defeat, they usually whitewash the mistakes and destroy the evidence.
I appreciate your view and knowing that your country of china is opposed to Christianity, i do have to consider your indoctrination as you might consider mine. I appreciate your 'opinion' but please find some facts.
The bible is the only book that shows its military victories and defeats in an anti-semetic way.
What? Christianity, Judaism etc... All emanated from Egyptian beliefs and whatever was before that. They evolved in the same manner through the lessons learned from the Egyptian rulers, to achieve power and superiority over the masses. The bible is not the beginning of the World nor was it the first story written. Why does this phrase 'anti-semetic' keep being thrown up? What does it actually mean?
They didn't emanate. They separated.
God formed their belief.
Genesis.. explained the origin of everything
Exodus.. showed them how to be separate
Leviticus.. showed them holy living and how to worship THEIR God
Deuteronomy.. reminded them of holiness and worship again.
The Hebrew way of serving God was completely different than the Egyptians and any other surrounding nations.
while all the other nations were sacrificing human beings and drinking their blood and throwing babies on hot metal altars and into fire.
the God of the bible said: sacrifice animals and eat your dinner from the cooked flesh. Drink not the blood.
Every nation had several Gods, the Hebrews had ONE.
This is not an evolution when you consider Moses on mount Sinai with thunderings and lightning so great the people greatly feared and trembled.
I don't mind peoples opinions, although i think opinions have no place here, but i prefer them to be correct and not just what they think, unsupported by examples and documents.
Nothing you have said makes me think any differently. For me, the whole god, religion thing is a load of baloney. Many Eastern people for example have a completely different belief system that does not hold your god at the centre of its World.
To me, Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the result of Europe and the Baltic region becoming connected with the then more ancient and sophisticated societies in Northern Africa during the spread of the Roman Empire. It is wholly probable that the wisdom and mystique of the Egyptians and Ethiopians were seemingly magical in those ancient days and outside settlers who had garnered their teachings would have established their own pitch on these beliefs and formed their own cult followings. It would seem that the Hebrew people were at centre stage during this period.
People of those times were clearly more open to embracing the perception of men with godly connections and the Roman Empire enabled the spread of these myths and legends before they themselves actually re-wrote the script and imposed Christianity as their preferred form of indoctrination. All the major religions are concocted elaborations and symbolisms of Egyptian beliefs.
God is a HE that's not a PERSON...although I can have a PERSONAL relationship with HIM.
HE is a SPIRIT...that is a PERSON...but is THREE people...who is ONE person...who is a MALE...but not a MALE...nor a FEMALE...BUT still a HE.
Do you get that, Baileybear?
I suppose you think something more complex than you should be more simple than you?
I can see why you are confused.
You think everything is suppose to fit your tiny PRE-BUILT perspectives...
Vector, One can not understand spiritual things about God if not spiritual connected. It begins with seeking God for themselves. I understand their confusion, because they are trying to understand from a logical viewpoint.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (at war) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
I know, eh.
Before i was saved non of this made any sense and now a whole new beautiful world has opened up - and its endless!
Scriptures make sense
God sends me on errands
People are made happy and lives are literally saved.
I'm never bored or have nothing to do
I'm never alone and always have someone to talk to.
The best post I've seen in awhile.
Praise God Almighty!!
So, that made sense to you? Do you run errands for God too? Fascinating stuff. What kind of errands? Do you pick up his laundry or go to the corner grocery for a pint of milk?
Does God talk back to you guys when you're in a conversation with him?
brother, Praise God for your testimony. I can relate. There were many things I didn't understand before I accepted Jesus in my life. God brought me out of darkness into the glorious light. I am just an humble servant who is still growing in the Lord. It is the most beautiful experience. I thank God for his overflowing love.
So much better now.
He opens the doors that were previously closed
and the eyes that were shut
and the ears that did not hear
and improves comprehension with contextual understanding lol.
His Love keeps me going on.
Relationships are built on Love not rules.
Go with God, sister!
nope. Clear as mud.
Oh, don't forget that god got mary pregnant too.
Already stated it's clear as mud to you...
Not a great source if they don't see it too clearly right?
Much is indeed muddied.
oh don't forget that God got Mary pregnant.
Yes and when she found out, she said:
Luke 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
God knows the hearts
Well.... I've read some Bull sh.... in my life but this really takes the biscuit! I don't believe God has a gender. 'Man' is short for 'humankind' What does it matter what sex we are? One is totally useless without the other as far as procreation is concerned, and, at the end of the day, that's all we are here for - to keep the hu -MAN race going. Man or woman,- and the word 'woman'' to my reckoning means 'man with a womb'
Why do men have nipples? They don't need them, they don't breastfeed. We women do all the hard work when it comes to reproduction. We go through the pains of pregnancy and childbirth, we bleed monthly, (some with pain) we rear our young and are quite happy to do so. all the man does is happily plant the seed! As for God being male - unless he's got a pair of balls, he, she, or it is just an entity. The bible is bullshit, and anyone who really believes it must be a sandwich short of a picnic. We put our trust in world leaders who follow this tired out of date book. Religion is the main cause of wars and death all over the world. Do you think that any loving 'God' would really want the intelligent race that he (she or it) allegedly created, to experience all this strife for his (her, it's) family? WAKE UP! It's an out of date fairytale!
that made me laugh. Hope you don't mind me saying, but I think you've got more balls than god
Thank you Baileybear. I'll take that as a compliment - although I must admit, I do believe in a divine entity - albeit not the biblical one. I do however, belive that the 'God' I believe in is superior to any mere human, so I feel a little uncomfortable with your comment about me having more balls then Him (Her, It). We are all given a life to live, and if we are lucky we have good parents who teach us right from wrong. We learn values and humility and try our best to be good to each other. This is the 'God' within us. Life is for living. It is a precious gift that we should all cherish and if we are lucky enough to be parents we should teach our offspring to be true to themselves and respect everyone.
I believe that's what 'God' is all about.
What you are describing is not a god, it is spirituality. A god is just how some people with limited imagination personify the unknown, to accept there is more than just self, something else beyond what we know would appear to a healthy response to the unknown.
it's meant to be a compliment - you are bold enough to say what you think. In NZ & Aussie when we say a female has balls, that's what it means
The reason men have nipples is because it is aesthetically pleasing. It looks good. Part of Gods design was that each gender should be pleasing to look at. Women like mens parts and men like womens parts.
Why do women have long eye lashes.. to enhance the eye.
aesthetically pleasing?? Ha ha ha ha ha
What about those that have extra nipples?
Men can have long eyelashes & women can have short eyelashes.
its still aesthetically pleasing and the extra nipple entertainment lol
and nipples in male bats...are they to be aesthetically pleasing too?
<nude image snipped>
extra breasts under the armpits - you like those too?
I don't believe hubpages smiles upon such a disgusting and indecent display..
And you have so many questions that are petty.
Anyone can ask a billion unanswered questions. There is an endless supply.
What is your goal? To convert someone because men have nipples?
Maybe you should look into something slightly more important.
Or at least spend the time asking questions you know there aren't any answers to... to do something good.
And quit hounding Christians like we are required to answer all your pathetic questions.
Asking all these questions like your the authority or something...
I think maybe you should answer your own ridiculous questions with your own ridiculous answers.................
disgusting display? This is one of god's creations is it not? I wrote a hub about the unintelligent design in nature just like this example. Women and men can have rows of nipples just like a dog or cat.
You don't have decent answers, so you say I have ridiculous questions. Typical. I ask these questions to make people think. Clearly that is beyond you.
BTW, some male bats produce small amounts of milk - now is that disgusting to you too?
I'm fine with it.
Gods infinite creativity amazes me.
He does enjoy creating.
God should be more creative than any man has ever been. Should God be less creative than Shakespeare or van gouge? I think not.
I got banned from the forums for the first time - presumably for this (I certainly didn't call anyone names). Talk about over-sensitive
That doesn't seem like something you should be banned for. Are you sure it was for that and not another post?
I didn't get told why. Presumably it was for posting a "disgusting" medical photo of a woman with 6 boobs
Sin entered the world
Corrupts all future seed
Oh but we have been down that road before haven't we BB?
I guess your questions and pics are more sensational though.
There is no shortage of those online ,but its still just like God said it was.
Sin corrupting a once perfect world.
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
the earth became subject to the sinful nature of man. Pollution is a good example, besides others.
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
Kiwi, Some refuse to accept that sin is the cause for imperfection in this world. They just want to continue to blame God.
With indoctrination, it is key to accept that type of doctrine without any critical thought. However, even after some not so critical thought, one can easily see the contradictions of that belief and find that it is not supported at all.
And, there's no reason to blame your god, but instead, blame religious indoctrination that causes people to believe in such things.
I just thought of a question to ask you. Were you once indoctrinated to believe and decided to turn away from believing the word of God. I will be awaiting your response.
Nope, I was taught to think and question everything. Looking back through my families ancestry, it is unknown when the indoctrination was broken, but it does appear to be some time ago according to the records.
Taught? Personally, thinking and questioning was a natural for me to do, even as a child. You seem to make false assumptions that all christians were indoctrinated. That was not the case for me, and I have no reason to be dishonest. It simply made sense to me that God exist and the bible is the true word of God. Remember, no one will get answers to all questions. No one knows everything, but God.
Except for your religion, of course.
The thinking mind wouldn't come to such a conclusion that the bible made sense or that it is the true word of a god. It's clear you were indoctrinated as your posts would wholeheartedly indicate. And, I understand you believe you are being honest about it as you fully accepted your indoctrination as an ultimate truth.
Perception is the key word.
BD You have percieved to know the heart and mind of ALL Christians.
Isn't that like saying ALL Muslims are terriosts, which we know they are not.
I was raised to search ,ask and keep asking questions...its true my mother took me to Sunday School for 2 or 3 years ...but I also attended a single sex high school ,which if we believe the experts would have me now pursing a high power career ,be gay and liberated in the arts!... nothing could be more opposite
Such was the indocrination for at least 4 yrs...at an impressionable age.
Then for several years I literally did my own thing,didn't think about God ,much less care about him.
Over time because I was always hungry for life to make sense ( in particular me) I took several months to learn about Christ and test the fruit, in another words I researched ,then God reached down to me -I listened.
The rest is history.
Gods love makes sense in this very unloving and unforgiving world.
His wisdom has prevailed in a world of broken promises and scheming self centred governments.
God provided a way for me (and you) to get back to Him,and find peace ,joy and fulfilment.
The best the world can do to replicate this peace is to provide drugs and the prop up self help industry to the tune of millions.
God makes sense ,dont you see !
That's not really possible. When Christians were children, their minds were clean slates, they couldn't comprehend the doctrines of Christianity at all. However, they were taught by their parents and peers to believe in it regardless of their lack of understanding and accepted whatever they were fed without question. This ultimately ruined the possibility for them to think critically.
No, it's like saying Muslims are indoctrinated into their religions.
One can be fully indoctrinated into a religions without attending Sunday School or church. Both just help solidify the indoctrination.
Your "very unloving and unforgiving world" is the result of billions of people being religiously indoctrinated.
Or, deep six religious indoctrination so people can begin thinking for themselves and put their efforts into helping mankind survive rather then sitting on their butts waiting for an afterlife.
About as much sense as leprechauns, yes.
Kiwi, Beelzedad thinks he knows everything.
Woman and Kiwi - I departed from Christianity and your version of God when I was 10 because of what was in the Bible; there were simply too many unanswerd contratradictions. The ones that influenced me then were surface contradictions.
You bring up the most fundamental contradiction for which Christians, Jews, or Muslims have no anwser. It goes something like this. According to the Bible, God created everything there is in the Universe. The term "Everything" is all inclusive, I don't know of any other interpretation; it must included both "good", "evil", "sin", and "imperfection". If it doesn't. then, by definition, your God cannot really be a God because a true God must, again by definition and by the Bible, is definition, be inifinite.
With respect, it must follow then, assuming, as you obiously do, that your God is the true and only God, then God must be resposible for all sin and imperfection in the world, especially if you are one of the Christians who do not believe in Free Will or unless Christians play by a different set of rules of simple logic only you are privy to.
On the surface it appears your defination is correct,but you judge God in human standards and He is God ,beyond and bigger than what we could ever imagine, so if you go deeper ,God character is not defined by what we see and think -always.
(That is why the Holy Spirit,imparts and reveals much) as God said he would)
Once again that is a Spiritual concept,not a man made one,hence it is often missed or misunderstood.
Christians in general accept (and heavily critised) for accepting God is everything to be the foundation of their faith.
Faith is a growing and evolving lifestyle. Gods truth never changes ,but we humans are being transformed daily ,if we are listening and walking with Christ.
We dont have to acquire the status that man requires ie. Best college ,a list of accolades or even letters after our name.
Gods standard is not like the worlds ,he looks inward (the state of our hearts/attitude ,mankind looks at what we aquire on the outside-trophies ,money, chattels etc.
My understanding of God being 'Everything' and 'All' is easy to accept....
As a primitive example...
As parents we have children ,we are in them , we are part of them , eveything they do in the beginning is because we are 'everything ' and 'all' to them.
They grow up ,become independant ,but does that mean we cease to be 'Everything' or 'All' ..( Im speaking laterally)...
Eaglekiwi - First let me say I just love that name :-), nice choice.
You and I start off from the same point but then go our separate ways. There is no question to the truth of what you said here (I changed the words slightly to make if fit) "God is bigger than what we could ever imagine, so if you go deeper ,God character is not defined by what we see and think -always." and "Christians in general accept (and heavily critised) for accepting God is everything to be the foundation of their faith."
I don't think that accepting God as everything is what Christians are critisized for although, from my point of view, there are a host of more pragmatic reasons. Almost all religions, including those that predate Abraham, believe that they conceive of God is "everything"; Krishna, for example, from the Bagadav-Gita. My personal belief accepts both of these fundamental facts.
But, from that point on, we differ. Jews. Christians, and Muslims all believe God spoke to them through certain prophets identified in the Old Testament laying out His laws. These laws were interpreted one way by Jewish Humans and another way by Muslim humans by way of Mohammed.
Even if one accepts that the original Books of the Bible were from the hand or mouth of God, nobody today has a clue what was really written. The originals do not exist and the closest you have now are the Dead Sea Scolls which are not in agreement with todays published texts.
Then you have the problem of the constantly revamped New Testament. and the 1,326 variations (I don't know how many different variations of the New Testament actually exist from when the first one was assymbled by the Catholic Church, but it is a lot and there are sometimes 180 degree opposite claims between them. In addition, you have the sudden appearance of a new prophet who Peter claims is the Son of God and is having God change His mind in many important respects in order to fit Peter's story. You also have Peter's fourth Gospel not agreeing very much with the the first two Gospels and an easily tracable changing of story from Gospel to Gospel as various predictions by Jesus didn't come to fruition in the timeframe He said they would.
I hope you know that Jesus never saw himself as a Christian. If fact, Jesus probably didn't even think of himself has the son of God. That was a creation out of whole cloth by Peter to sell Christianty around 70 ACE. (see "The Historical Jesus" lecture series by Professor Bart D. Ehrman of The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill from The Teaching Company)
This is what I see from where I sit outside the forest Eaglekiwi. I know your faith is based on the truth of God's word and I also agree with your statement that "God's truth never changes". But what I can't fathom is how you determine what God's Truth really is without the original Word of God available to you. All you have, the best that I can see, to base your faith on are tranlations by men (with a liittle 'm') who have an agenda.
For my part, I leave it at the God is everything and unknowable phase and don't try to do any second guessing that I know I am not capable of. Instead, I try to use the capability to reason, the ability to feel empathy, to feel guilt, to feel pleasure,and to love that I was given to guide my morale and ethical behaviour.
You got to kidding me. While, in evoluntionaly terms you have a point such as females looking for a male to provide protection and stability, yes ladies, that is true and has nothing to do with equality, and males look for attractiveness, the idea of what is atrractive changes of time.
In my day, clean shaven men with a lot of well groomed hair seemed to me what women wanted[ I had the face but with a really weak chin so there goes the manly man look.. Now, it seems one day old dark growth and bald is cool; I now have a beard, hiding the chin, naturally bald, ... but well out our of my prime. I won't get into what the Greek males of Plato's day, I think, thought was beautiful in women, it wasn't pretty by today's standards.
Straight talk! I love it. Call a spade a spade.
the bible is a bronze aged psychotic myth in my view too.
It is simple if we see how humans evolved and role men gender played in early days.Since humans created religious god, it was natural for Men who created religion to consider god as Man..
I'm gonna add a little fuel to this fire[as if it needs any lol].Christ died and Peter immediately high jacked his teachings[stole it from Mary Magdalene]to form the Universal[Catholic] church.It went prime time when Constantine[the pagan]made it the official religion of Rome cause it was very fast growing and the empire was on shaky ground[so,a political motivation.Nothing to do with religion].The"Universal"church then went about there murder,torture,and other fun activities so as to wipe out all other groups of Christians[cause they had the power dudes and dudettes].A Cool priest[good old Martin]said...WOAO,this just ain't right,so he tried to"PROTEST"the stuff the"Universals"were doing.He still was indoctrinated with"THEIR"hijacked politically motivated belief system and it tainted the"PROTESTENT"movement as well[just not as nasty,but still nasty] and that is the beggining[root]of today's brand of love on one hand,murder on the other Christianity.The"Universal"church claimed the old testament in order to gain credibility in a world that respected the old and rejected the"NEW"cults like Christianity.Walk into any church on any sunday and chances are you'll hear someone preaching from the"OLD"testament.Walk into any Synagogue Anytime and see if you can find a Rabbi preaching from the"NEW"testament[Ain't Gonna Happen],You claim them and they Reject you.Christians absconded with the Torah to Legitimise there infant religion so as to make it credible,then turned around and condemned the folks who wrote it!At least the Jews stayed true to their delusions.Buy rights,Mary should have been the first Pope not Peter."Jesus loved Mary more than all the others and kissed her often on the....[hole in papyrus]"From the gospel of Mary Magdalen.The world would be a better place today if Peter hadn't been such a narcissistic dildo.
OK,hows that for fanning the flame!
Thats interesting if not for:
Acts 10:4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Acts 10:5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
Peter gets Sent. He didn't just go. Men, gentiles even, come for him and off he goes.
Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
Acts 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
to keep this short... the disciples were told to go and wait for the gift of the Holy Ghost in acts 2. Acts covers a 30 year period. In chapter 11 of acts, few have gone and many are still waiting, 10 yrs later. Persecution came against the church to move the church outward, kinda push them from waiting.
The bottom line is 'people do what people do'. We have examples of ex Christians here who rant and rave against the god they once served. Did God stop them? No. Somewhere in their walk, Self still ruled their throne, they may have been in a cult or they were just in it to get a better life of material things, whatever... the catholic church - that knew not the God of the bible, although they said they represented, obviously being motivated by different objectives than preaching the Gospel of Christ went about doing their own thing also. God never forces people to do His will, but he will train people to do what he wants if they let Him.
The gospel of Mary Magdalen i have read and it contains unscriptural nonsense and i wouldn't quote any of it for any reason. Take out the trash please.
The Church was birthed because the torah was being preached in the synagogues and because the jews never accepted christ the Christians were allowed to enter but rarely to discuss Jesus, therefore, in order to discuss the new dispensation, Christ on the cross, and repentance, salvation and other Christian doctrines, even the truth of God revealed in the person of Jesus Christ... the church needed to come into existence - once again, because of the stubborness of the jews in rejecting Christ.
One can become indoctrinated by any belief if one chooses that path...
Even those that do not believe anything at all.
2 Timothy vs 2 'All scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching' (if you believe any of it, that is) so how can you discount Mary Magdalene's gospel? Who are you to say it's trash?
Because society has been, and still is dominated my men, it seems quite natural to refer to God in the masculine. Unfortunately, this does little to help women gain equality in society. Ever since, The Church of England allowed women to become priests, it has lost many thousands of its followers, mostly to the Roman Church. A lot of those leaving the church have been women, showing that the indoctrination that the male is superior to the female has been accepted by all. It seems it is impossible for people to think outside of the boxes that confine them.
I'm sure you can agree that indoctrination assumes the face of truth but can be very far from it.
All indoctrination assumes the face of truth, but is I believe very often a form of brainwashing.
You was brainwash not to believe .You got it from somewhere.
No I made informed choices based upon the best evidence, and not on discrimination or primitive beliefs, which have no basis in reality. But I suppose you would believe Satan made me say that.
i wouldn't give satan any credit
the romans and greeks were the first to really grasp abstract thought.
faith and belief are abstracts and therefore hard to both define and produce evidence.
But they exist.
as do others
they have definitions and some evidence but still are abstract.
Primitive is not to be discounted because it happened back then. Your childhood is important to your adult life. History is important to the future.
As time moves on, our time will be considered primitive. Are our accomplishments to be dismissed because time moved forward?
Some would say the old ways are best. Indeed they would be right. Properly grown food, fresh vegetables, horse and carriage instead of polluting noisy cars, peace and quiet beside a clean stream with large fish, less hustle and bustle, family ties.
Sometimes evolution, just sucks on many levels.
No ,drugs are the Govt supported cures be it over the counter or via the many hundreds of medical providers.
Just pop a pill ,or lock the poor buggar up!
The wonder pill for all of mans dilemmas ,oh no wait lets blame religion.
Yea Religion. Its all their fault
How #%&#& hypocritical is it that you can believe in God,Jesus,Angels,Demons and so forth...but if they talk to you and you hear their voices...you get medicated,put in the"Long"sleeved jacket,and locked in a padded room?
It's cause their NOT REAL!!The over arching principle of unity of this universe is NOT aprehendable buy our Tiny human minds and that includes everyone...
...and the cow jumped over the moon,
and the dish ran away with the spoon.
How can anyone be a "failed religionist?"
Having the capacity to escape from indoctrination should result in a Nobel!
With all the crud about religion in our daily lives, it is a big ask. Too big for most religionists as is evident.
Don't worry some day you may get past your frightened clinging to myths of yor and see the light.
Then instead of being sad and alone, you can come out of your room without the permission of the invisible fairy in the sky.
Who knows? You may even learn not to make every post a personal attack, and stop seeing comments such as this one in reply.
Obviously being a failed religionist is again truth and i will tell you why.
To once have been in something and to walk away or not complete the course or use different formulas than the norm (in math for example) means failure. In anything on this planet failure is failure, excuses never give a diploma for failure and solid reasons only get ya another shot at the course again.
The crud you see, i don't see it. So it must be personal.
Since God never fails us, we can only fail Him.
I rather object to your telling everybody that your failed experience is an ensign for all to follow. I don't see how your incorrect and wrong path is supposed to be every bodies experience. I think you assume too much and i think while you were in it - if indeed you ever were in it - you assumed not enough.
Sorry, that you, out of context,
consider EVERY post to be a personal attack, its just that my experience and yours, disagree entirely and since i know you failed, you again fail to convince me. Have i not proven you wrong before many times and once again.
This forum is a place for discussion, not personal opinions which are really just excuses for failures sometimes. It is hard to discuss personal opinions because, well, every body has one. In forums such as this one needs to use the right ammo to discuss and that is bible. If people cannot bring bible to the table, and then accept scripture debunking their claim or come up with suitable counter argument, this forum becomes a place for every foul bird to nest.
seems you love to use the word failure. Failed in your books, learnt lessons & gained insight in mine.
Every post here is a personal opinion.
Not everyone believes the bible is an absolute authority.
That is true.Different strokes for different fokes.
And personal opinions are alive in many forms, but useless, since the bible is the absolute authority, but nevermind, the post was to another to answer a post that i thought was kinda dumb.
If you want to refute my posts, please add more than your personal opinion since i know not where that comes from and please try not to sneak around the points i mention, but face them and discuss them.
That would be nice.
Then, we can refute the bible of it's contents and conclude that your words are just personal opinions that aren't relevant and don't matter?
The bible is the absolute authority? What above all other religious books or life philosophies that have been in existence as long or even longer? Give me a break! You need to pop the bubble of the indoctrination to which you are confined and sniff the fresh air of goodness and discipline in the outside World that is not dictated by the bible.
When it comes you still won't be able to comprehend it.But others will.
Thank you but...
i have been there my friend
i far more enjoy everything where i am now.
There's new stuff here.
The bible rocks!
"You have a good one as well...and remember no working tomorrow...don't even light a fire, or else!
So sayeth the Lord:
On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death. You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)"
Ahh yes.. The overlooking Jesus Christ method.
Don't forget, Christ is the reason we don't need to be perfect for God to allow us to be with Him.
God knows who loves Him and who tries to make Him happy. And He sent Jesus to allow the imperfect people that love Him to be made perfect by Him if they ACTUALLY LOVE HIM AND TRY TO DO WHAT PLEASES HIM AND TRUST HIM.
Jesus was crucified because He had to live as we do. But He was perfect and would never die naturally because sin is what kills human kind. Jesus had no sin, but to change our case from actually having to be perfect, to God perfecting us because we love Him and try to do good He died as we die because it is what we all go though.
Through Jesus any judgement God so pleases can be made, including allowing who He desires to be allowed into heaven.
Without that interjection, then by God's very nature, imperfection is a disease like a virus and kills things that are perfect. He would simply have to put us away from Him, which is death because only with God is there life.
Jesus is your perfection that you cannot be...
But only if you accept Him.