Hell, and the Atheist..

1. 68

   aka-djposted 11 years ago

   Please watch this video from beginning to end before you post a comment.
   
   Since there is such a debate about Hell, it's worth you checking this out!
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vj0qKth … re=related

   replyreport
   1. 61

      kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He has had a strong delusion that he believes a lie.....
      
      Not that there is no Truth to the story, but since most cannot differentiate the difference then the Lie will rule ultimately....
      
      Christian rejoices but this one will make more disciple for hell than the atheist on the Street.....

      replyreport
   2. 74

      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This individual just proves how one cannot escape their own mind and it also shows how they mistakenly attribute something they don't understand to something else, just so they can feel stable about themselves.

      replyreport
   3. 80

      Slarty O'Brianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If what he says is true, doesn't that make god one sick bastard? lol... It does it for me. The question is, you believe in this thing?  Why? How could you worship what amounts to a demon by all accounts? Are you sure you aren't worshiping the devil? He's a tricky bugger. Probably convince anyone that he's god. It sure looks that way to me. Any god as cruel and sick as yours wouldn't be worth worship even it was real.

      replyreport
      1. 85

         earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The idea of a god needing worship is the least logical thing I can think of.

         replyreport
         1. 80

            Slarty O'Brianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            And demanding it on pain of unimaginable eternal torture if you don't?  If that ain't Satan I don't know who is.
            
            Of course the Christians have forgotten why god's need worship. The Greeks tell us it is their food.
            
            I say starve the bunch of them to death. They have always behttp://hubpages.com/forum/topic/76989#en more trouble than they were worth.

            replyreport
            1. 68

               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You sure are angry about a god that is just a myth, then.
               I feel more pity for you than you ever will for me.
               
               Virus?   
               That's a new one! You sure are creative.
               Was that discovered in a lab somewhere? 

               replyreport
               1. 80

                  Slarty O'Brianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  What you never heard of memes? Yup. Christianity is a virus of the mind. You are even told to spread it, infecting others.
                  
                  You show me a sick god, tell me it is all about love and then tell me if I don't believe in it I will go to hell to be tortured for eternity.
                  
                  It's not about me being angry. It's about you needing mental help if you believe it. 

                  replyreport
                  1. 68

                     aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     So you ARE angry.
                     You also freely diagnosed me, to boot.
                     
                     Thanks for helping me out.
                     
                     I will have to find an anti viral pill to cure me.
                     I think there's one on the market called the Goss-pill.
                     
                     No, wait, that will just make me worse.
                     
                     Oh well, I'm doomed to Eternity in Heaven.

                     replyreport
                     1. 80

                        Slarty O'Brianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        You are doomed.. to wishful thinking and delusion. No charge.

                        replyreport
                  2. 74

                     getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Agreed.  Religion is simply a mental disorder.

                     replyreport
                     1. 68

                        aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        As opposed to WHAT, order?
                        3D Thinking?
                        If you say so!

                        replyreport
                        1. 74

                           getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           The fact that you really believe that you are in a relationship with the creator of the umiverse, because you read a 2000 year old book, is proof that religion is insanity.  You know absolutely NOTHING...NOTHING about the creator of the umiverse.
                           

                           replyreport
                           1. 0

                              Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              now that is rather amusing

                              replyreport
                              1. 75

                                 Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Would you feel the same way if someone make fun of somebody you loved.
                                 
                                 I doubt it.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 58

                                    Evolution Guyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    LOLOLOLOLO
                                    
                                    No surprise you cause so may wars then innit?
                                    
                                    Do yer love god wot kilt the aborigines in NZ?  Bcoz them int lubbin Jeebus?
                                    
                                    LOLOLOLO

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 68

                                       aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       It were the Brits that dunn kilt da Aboes.
                                       You are one ob dem, no?

                                       report
                                       1. 75

                                          Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          Aborigines in New Zealand
                                          
                                          How ignorant can you be ,you laughin yet Dj  
                                          
                                          Missionaries from Great Britain..teaching the natives how to be civil ,maybe they majored in Biology, because they sure were fond of that brown skin- Religious English BASKETS the lot of them!

                                          report
                           2. 68

                              aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I am absolutely awed by how knowledgeable you are.
                              
                              You seem to know just about everything about me. What I know, what I don't know, what experiences I have had, and even my mental/psychological state. AMAZING!
                              
                              How do you do that in your little, three dimensional brain?
                              
                              What's my favorite colour, food, and song? Surprise me. I'm keen to find out more about myself!!!

                              replyreport
                              1. 85

                                 earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 You don't wanna go there DJ.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 68

                                    aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    YES I DO!
                                    
                                    This guy thinks he has my number.
                                    I want to test him out. Just how good is he?

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 85

                                       earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       It is an old psych joke, sorry!

                                       report
                                       1. 68

                                          aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          It's ok.
                                          I left my emotions at the door!
                                          
                                          I'm not even a little upset, nor will I be.
                                          He ain't worth that much of my effort.

                                          report
                              2. 74

                                 getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't understand why you comprehend my posts the way you do.
                                 
                                 Have you ever heard of objective reality?  This has nothing to do with JUST you.
                                 
                                 Anyone making the claims, that you are making, is held to the same tests.  Those tests are imposed by objective reality.
                                 
                                 You can attack me with as much smug sarcasm as you'd like, but in the end it appears that in objective reality, the only thing you have is belief--nothing more.
                                 
                                 Reality changes based upon new knowledge or information, however nothing is true simply because you want it to be true.
                                 
                                 I think asking me to state your favorite color, food, and song is the creation of a strawman...and shows that there is a comprehension problem.  I think it's emotive.  This is not about YOU personally.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 68

                                    aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yes it is personal. I don't see it as an attack, seeing as all we use are words.
                                    
                                    Every time you include my post in your response, it is directed at me, primarily, and then to others secondarily. It would be much more a man of you to apologise for some of the crap you throw at me , rather than patronise me with this type of drivel.
                                    
                                    Yet, you seem to be the one threatened. Just about every post I made to which you responded in the first instance, was not to you personally, yet you seem to take it so. I suggest you just refrain from responding to any more of my posts, as I have no desire to interact with one as lofty as you.
                                    
                                    You call me self-righteous, yet you are the one who is bent on diagnosing my mentality, and certainly not shy in telling me all about myself.

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 74

                                       getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       You, totally, lost that debate, now you are angry.  Typical!
                                       
                                       Try having a better position the next time, and you won't have to resort to...creating strawmen...flip-flopping...and throwing temper tantrums.
                                       
                                       Good bye and good riddance!

                                       report
                              3. 75

                                 Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I wait to with baited breath
                                 
                                 This need that some people have to be negative toward Christians is nasty and mean.
                                 
                                 I wonder if this is how they were indoctrinated? or were they born that way?
                                 
                                 No ,I believe its because they choose to be mean ,critical,and rude.
                                 
                                 Like I used to tell pre-schoolers...
                                 
                                 You can choose good words or bads words,I wonder which words you will choose today ..hmm

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 85

                                    earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    What the @&%$@$ has that got to do with it! *&^$@!&!

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 75

                                       Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                         rascal pants, off to the naughty corner with you

                                       report
                                       1. 85

                                          earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          I live in the naughty corner. I have put up a tent, and even have furniture in it.

                                          report
                                          1. 75

                                             Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             I bet you do
                                             
                                             Actually you remind me of this Tribal story Earnest, where if everyone is accepted as being of equal importance ,the colours of the rainbow becomes more vibrant-and that rainbow is for everyone ,regardless of colour,creed ,or race yep even the naughty ones.

                                             report
                                             1. 85

                                                earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                Gee! I'm chuffed that you connected me to such a positive story!

                                                report
                                                1. 58

                                                   Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                   I started to say something ....  but I'll just say .. KOOL.
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                       Ok   good night  YAWL.

                                                   report
                                                   1. 75

                                                      Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Oh now Im wondering what ya was gonna say

                                                      report
                                 2. 58

                                    Beelzedadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    So, we are "negative, nasty and mean" because you fabricate stories and lie to defend your beliefs?

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 75

                                       Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes,I said some people are negative ,nasty and mean,no need for it,at all!!
                                       
                                       I think your ideas are based on delusion ,but I would not insist you have mental problems...
                                       
                                       Big difference-sure voice ones disagreements, but attack apersons character-weak.

                                       report
                                       1. 58

                                          Beelzedadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          If you insist reality is based on delusion, that is your belief. I'm not the one who believes in invisible magical super beings.
                                          
                                          
                                          

                                          report
                              4. 0

                                 Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 things about yourself, like your preferences....that's also why I find it so bizarre that strangers say they 'love me' on here

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 68

                                    aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    How do you define "love me"?

                                    replyreport
   4. 67

      heavenbound5511posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is a great testimony of God interceding in his life to save him. There are many testimonies of hell and heaven- because God has revealed it to them.
      
      God bless you!

      replyreport
      1. 85

         earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Do you have the opinion that if others see this crap often enough they will become like the loser in the video?

         replyreport
2. 0

   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   That was an interesting video. Thanks for sharing it.

   replyreport
3. 74

   getitriteposted 11 years ago

   How many times have we seen, or heard of some delusional person, converting from non-believer to believer, because of some 'out-of-body experience?'
   
   Years ago, this happened to one of my best friends. He went from being an atheist to a believer, instantly, because of an out-of-body experience...however, I consider him to be completely delusional and in need of psychological help.  I had to severe the relationship.
   
   These idiotic stories are, now, a dime a dozen.

   replyreport
   1. 85

      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My brother-inlaw did the same. Then gave up his business and destroyed his relationship with his entire family. It happens.

      replyreport
4. 68

   aka-djposted 11 years ago

   Thanks for your replies.
   I see (most of) you truly DO KNOW EVERYTHING!
   
   There could not POSSIBLY be a true and real conversion experience in ANYONES life.
   They are merely delusional! I LOVE it!
   
   Jesus (nor God) doesn't exist, so how could there possibly be any kind of relationship between He, and a human being? It MUST be delusion!
   
   Looked to me like he was as "normal" as any of you, but then I haven't "seen" any of you.
   
   As the  guy said, if you truly cared to know (Him), all you'd need to do is ASK Him to show Himself real to you (personally). But, since you are your own "gods", you are already complete and in need of nothing.

   replyreport
   1. 74

      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Nice smart a$$ comment, which is and has no basis. Everything is a broad term, in and of, itself.
      Read his face and see he is a bold face liar.
      There actually isn't a true need for the existence of a god. The need is made up from the mind of the individual.
      Well, good to know, you cannot actually tell when someone is lying. No wonder why you have the view you have. I call it "chosen ignorance".
      He(the reverend) is just spouting off, just like a normal religious individual. He has learned his craft well enough to sit in front of people and attempt to convert them. Unfortunately, his eyes and facial features, show he is a liar. Too bad, so sad.
      I have needs, but a god isn't one of them.

      replyreport
      1. 68

         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, I'm pretty confident I got it right, when I said ALL.
         
         I see you are expert at telling when someone is lying. Good for you.
         But, eben without seeing MY facial expressions, you already accuse me of being one. It goes to PROOVE you know WAY too much for a mere mortal.
         
         This guy couldn't POSSIBLY have had a real experience, or a REAL conversion to Jesus. (Note, he didn't just become ANY religion(ist) but a Christian. Why is that? Maybe 'cause Allh, Budha and all the rest are DEAD, and have NO influence beyond the grave.
         
         But, again, that couldn't be. That would upset your doctrine of NO GOD. PERIOD.
         
         
         But thanks for making this yet another colourful thread.
         (PS NO offence intended . . . nor any take, BTW!)

         replyreport
         1. 74

            Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I know what you said.
            Now you want to make this about me? When clearly you cannot tell that the man in the video was lying. I'm sorry you cannot.
            Actually, I didn't call you a liar. I said the man in the video was.
            Any moron can understand Jesus' true teachings, once the distortion and misinformation is gone. Unfortunately, the man in the video isn't making that claim. He is claiming to have experienced a higher power and I am saying it was in his mind, which he is attributing to something he cannot explain, so he is lying about god, so he can feel better about himself.

            replyreport
            1. 68

               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You are right, I read it as you said I was a liar.
               I retract that comment.
               
               But, your last point that he's lying about God, is wrong.
               How can you call his statement a lie? (Besides the fact that you say there is NO god, so to talk about him as though he existed, would be one).
               
               To be lying, one HAS to know their statement to be false. You cannot know what he knows to be true.

               replyreport
               1. 74

                  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm impressed. You admitted a mistake. WOW!
                  Actually you cannot prove I am wrong.
                  By paying attention to his eyes and facial expressions, just as I said in previous post.
                  As I also said- he has attributed an experience he has had, to something else, because he cannot explain it. That is not difficult to understand, when you consider reading his face and eyes. What part are you missing?

                  replyreport
                  1. 68

                     aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I wish some atheists would have the ba11s to do the same! (Admit they are wrong)
                     But that can't be. They know everything, and their opinions are right!
                     
                     You are still wrong, because you label the guy a liar, and have nothing more for evidence than his facial expressions. I remain unconvinced!
                     
                     I  have told the truth (besides quoting Scripture etc) and have been accused of telling a lie. I have no idea what facial expressions they saw, but they read me wrong!

                     replyreport
                     1. 74

                        Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        And I wish people would stop associating me with atheist, but I guess we cannot always get what we want.
                        Of course you would be unconvinced. Because, you NEED to believe in a god, because you fail in understanding your own life. It's obvious.
                        You have told the truth? Maybe a stretch of the imagination, but not truth.
                        Re-play your video and watch him carefully. Watch is eyes, body language and facial expression. When he needs to make a point, he will stress it, like it matters. His tone changes, his movement changes.

                        replyreport
                        1. 68

                           aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I didn't call YOU an atheist, but rather was making a blanket statement. I know you don't call yourself one. (Apology accepted, should one be forthcoming!)
                           
                           Why do you now call me a "stretcher of the imagination", in effect s liar?
                           
                           Can't you take statement at face value? Forget religion for a moment, and think every day life. I have been truthful, and been accused of lying. What facial expressions did I have that caused the other person to disbelieve me?
                           They were WRONG.
                           
                           So, you are NOT an atheist, but you don't allow your doctrine to consider this guy as telling the truth, simply because you don't have room in your worldview for it TO BE TRUE. Therefore he MUST be lying, and his facial expressions are all you have to go on.
                           
                           Of course, there is no way you can prove he is truthful or not, because what he experienced he cannot share, except by telling about it. So, you win, either way!

                           replyreport
                           1. 74

                              Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I didn't say YOU called me an atheist. I said I wish people would stop associating me with atheist. There is a difference? You made a wish and I made a wish. No apology forthcoming, because I didn't do anything to apologize for.
                              I said, what you said is a stretch of the imagination. You want to take it as me calling you a liar, then you have issues.
                              I can take a statement at face value. However, when distortion and misinformation are factoring in, that value changes.
                              I think everyday life, I don't have to forget religion, I did that a long time ago. It's YOU who cannot forget religion.
                              You have been truthful? If what you are saying is truthful, then you're missing something, if I am telling you that it is a stretch of the imagination. What YOU define as truth? How you come to reach truth? Is through beliefs.
                              
                              Truth has nothing to do with beliefs.
                              I was not talking about you. I was talking about the moron in the video.
                              My worldview? My worldview sees a path to peace and it doesn't have anything to do with a god.
                              Do you not read?
                              This is where you've screwed yourself in this conversation. If he had an experience he cannot share, then he should be able to put it into language/communication, without having to resort to using mystical explanation.
                              It's not about winning or losing. It's about eliminating the distortion and misinformation.

                              replyreport
                              1. 68

                                 aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 You obviously like point for point refutation!
                                 
                                 So, your intention IS to win (an argument at least)
                                 
                                 Good for you.
                                 
                                 Thanks for the discussion.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 74

                                    Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Again, no point to win or lose. Just eliminate misinformation and/or distortion. Thank you for the conversation as well.

                                    replyreport
         2. 80

            Slarty O'Brianposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Oh yes. He had a real experience and perhaps a real conversion. Doesn't mean  he figured out what the experience actually was caused by and it doesn't mean he doesn't have confirmation bias.
            
            Christianity is a virus with numerous traps for the mind to fall into so the virus can be efficiently spread.
            
            But i have no doubt he experienced something and I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the conversion.

            replyreport
   2. 74

      getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You seem to have an eternal hatred for courageous free-thinkers.
      Why is that?   Is it because you're bitter that you lack the courage to undo your indoctrination and think for yourself?
      
      You prefer, instead, to abdicate your mind, and accept willful ignorance as truth...then insult intelligent critical thinking people. 
      
      The man in the video is a delusional psychotic, or just a con man, but either way, he has no integrity.

      replyreport
      1. 68

         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Where did you get to know so much about me?
         As a free thinker, are you better that me? You sure sound condescending enough to look that way!
         
         I'm glad you are so courageous as to tackle the like of feeble minded, indoctrinated simpletons like me. Must be tough!!
         Well done. I commend you for your courage.

         replyreport
   3. 60

      mathsciguyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, here's the thing, aka-dj.  I can't speak for anyone else in this forum, but I think I can see where they are coming from. 
      Suppose that the man is sincere.  That seems to be your primary contention with many of the dissenters who have posted already who suppose that the man is either lying or crazy.  So, we will begin from the assumption of his sincerity and sanity.  Now, even with the assumption of sincerity and sanity, the skeptic will still not be able to accept this as proof of the existence of hell.  One reason for this is that the skeptic will not even readily accept his/her own personal experience to determine veracity of a claim, but needs to have a rigorous investigation to be peer-reviewed in order to consider it even possibly viable.  Consider that even sane people have what most people would certainly consider "crazy" dreams, bizarre illusions and moments of temporary suspension of rationality.  These are the times when shadows become monsters (even to the most rational and steadfast of us), and so if there is that alternative possibility, then the dissenter will naturally choose to believe that more likely alternative.  It isn't anything personal, it's just the way that such people's minds work.

      replyreport
      1. 68

         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Whatever!
         
         I just hope you either don't have such an experience, 'cause I suspect, you will be singing to a different tune! This guy IS.
         
         As for proof of Hell, I think I know better than to offer anything as "proof". There is NO proof. It's either accepted by faith, (just as faith in God, Heaven, etc), OR, you experience something for yourself.
         
         No-one can "prove" he has had an experience, what that was, and how "real" it was. He's a changed man as a result.
         
         But, I'm glad you watched. You learned something.

         replyreport
5. 67

   mrpopoposted 11 years ago

   I like how the speaker says they "won't hold it against [atheists]" for being ignorant, and they follow that with background laughter.
   
   His testimony doesn't demonstrate anything about hell existing other than in his mind.

   replyreport
6. 59

   TMMasonposted 11 years ago

   Speaking from experience I can say there is something more after death. And I will leave it at that. You all believe what you want... but I know there is more to it than earth and worms.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      mathsciguyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Am I to understand that you have experience with what comes after death?
      I'm really curious now as to what that could possibly entail.

      replyreport
7. 60

   pedrogposted 11 years ago

   

   replyreport
8. 75

   Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

   Courageous free thinkers oh c'mon ,you typed that statement from behind a computer screen and wont even show your face
   
   Courageous-yea right!
   
   
   P.S Dj doesnt have a hateful bone in his whole body! ,thats so wrong.

   replyreport
   1. 68

      aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks.
      Apparently he knows stuff about me that even I didn't know.

      replyreport
   2. 74

      getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      At least I have the courage to stand up to this lie that you allow yourself to be victim to.  My photo has nothing to do with this. 
      
      And I would tell you that right to your face.
      I tell believers all the time, in person, how ridiculous and childish their beliefs are.  Your assertions are nonsense.
      
      
      
      I know, he's just relaying the hate that God taught him.

      replyreport
      1. 68

         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         What hate?
         
         You keep making things up about me, out of thin air, and have the hide to call me hateful. Is that how far your free thinking has taken you? To be judgmental of people you don't even know?

         replyreport
         1. 74

            getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I did not call you hateful in my last response.
            You, my friend, are reading more into the statement than what I actually said.
            
            I merely said that "He is only relaying what God has taught him."  Isn't this what you consider to be the truth?
            
            Where did I mention ANY hatred?

            replyreport
            1. 68

               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Right here;
               "You seem to have an eternal hatred for courageous free-thinkers."
               
               Eternal, no less. That kinda adds weight to the hatred part.

               replyreport
               1. 74

                  getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  But you SEEM to attack our intellect, vehemently, with your statements referring to us as "knowing everything" and "being our own Gods."  Maybe it's not hatred, AS YOU SEE IT, but that is perceived as condescension and disdain.
                  
                  
                  
                  You don't see God's message as hate, because you are still indoctrinated.  I understand, I was too.  You are only repeating what you believe to be true...
                  
                  I wish people didn't get so upset about their indoctrinated beliefs...and that they would really put the effort into really thinking them through...before crucifying the opposition.

                  replyreport
9. 58

   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   I wish that people could see that there are many pieces of one complete truth.
     The man in the video honestly described a piece of truth as he experienced it.
      
   
        He described a very small portion of a very large truth.

   replyreport
10. 92

    melporposted 11 years ago

    Howard  just had an out of the body experience or near death experience. He is just describing the fleeting moments of life while his brain was shutting down. Everything he is describing here are fragments of his memories and lifetime experiences.

    replyreport
11. 0

    blake4dposted 11 years ago

    We all could be wrong, well all could be right, and we all might be both. It is possible that none of us know the truth, amd even more likely that none of us ever will. What is true and sad. Is that everyday someone wants to prove their way is right, not because they care about others...but they want to feel good about themselves and powerful because they were the one that led everybody to the truth. Then one of two things happens...
    
    Everyone falls in line and does see it the way it was communicated, and that messenger becomes an ego filled manipulator, who really probably just wanted someone to tell him he is loved and that its okay that he is not perfect.
    
    Or
    
    Everyone turns around and starts aruguing, bickering and eventually provides the messenger with proof that the wicked are deceiving themselves. And although this proof is falsely gathered information, this person then goes and begins to believe they should fight a war for everyone's souls...
    
    Why do all of you prey on this person with your opinions, and why do you dear sir not see that if you maybe right so may everyone else. If anyone has any spiritual motives here - then just leave do not resist and do not retaliate.
    
    And I ummm I checked
    Jesus has definately left the building.
    

    replyreport
12. 68

    aka-djposted 11 years ago

    If someone is a non believer nd gets converted later in life, by their own free will, (day like the guy on the video ) how can you call that indoctrination?
    If that were true, then you are also indoctrinated into your current beliefs. It can't be a catch all phrase just to sooth your conscience.
    I didn't see any apology for calling me hateful. I guess you are always right, so there is no need to.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       an atheist demonstrates instant 'conversion' of atheists
       
       http://godconfusion.blogspot.com/2011/0 … ts-to.html

       replyreport
       1. 85

          earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Top link Bailey!
          
          Guaranteed not to be seen all the way through by the terminally religious!

          replyreport
          1. 69

             aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Shucks Earnest, I watched that all the way through, of course I have to state that by your own criterion, there is no proof that it was not set up from the start, or do different measures of proof apply to atheists?
             
             Point Two is that the 'enemy' can also manifest as an angel of light(and they did all say they felt a 'spiritual force' present in the room, which in itself was interesting as they were, at that point, ostensibly atheists)and our friend in the video, the illusionist, would be a very suitable candidate for spiritual invasion by the enemy, especially as he set out in the first place to deceive and manipulate, two of the enemies best weapons!
             
             No overall, that would not shake a believers faith, rather make us more aware that the enemy seeks to deceive all mankind, and would deceive even the 'elect', if that were possible.
             
             Like the guy said, they all left in exactly the same state they arrived, deceived and deluded.

             replyreport
             1. 85

                earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yep! It was all a setup Aquasilver.
                
                
                Goddunnit.

                replyreport
                1. 69

                   aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Oh no Earnest, God did not 'dunnit' if it was a setup, put the credit where it is due, the 'NMEDUNNIT' to use your 'parrotphrasing'
                   
                   Good to see you are still spouting off!

                   replyreport
                   1. 85

                      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      It's called keeping it real in the non fairy land aqua.

                      replyreport
             2. 0

                Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                or maybe it's no god & no devil & the hypnotism is just the same

                replyreport
                1. 69

                   aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Well frankly, 18 years seems a long time to be hypnotised, especially as I would seemingly have been hypnotised in an olive grove where nobody else was present, but then I guess you do need some solace in your search for nothingness, so feel free to not believe whatever you cannot accept.
                   
                   I found something tangibly real and effective in changing my life, which I have managed to convey to others, once they had reached the limit of their disbelief.
                   
                   Now it seems they had seen something about my life that they wished they could share, and as I knew exactly what it was that had transformed me, it has always been simple to provide the link, when someone wants to have it.
                   
                   For those who wish to wallow in non belief, I feel sorrow, but nothing more sinister than sorrow, for they chose to not believe what they wish, and seem intent in attempting to drag others into their belief in nothingness.
                   
                   Strange, but their perfect free will choice.

                   replyreport
                   1. 0

                      Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Here's some more mass hypnotism for ya - sadly of children
                      
                      http://godconfusion.blogspot.com/2011/0 … ldren.html
                      
                      this is the main reason I speak out against indoctrination into such nonsense

                      replyreport
                      1. 76

                         DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         WOW...Reminds me of my church when I was a kid.
                         
                         You know..I have seen things simular in Wiccan Rituals...The only difference...They don't allow anyone under the age of 18 to attend. And in some groups, rituals are off limits to anyone under the age of 21.
                         
                         I also know that a person can be easily manipulated if they refuse to think for themselves. If this wasn't the case, guys wouldn't patrol the bars looking for drunk ladies to trick into going home with them. Inability to think for oneself, leaves you vunerable to predators of all types.

                         replyreport
                      2. 0

                         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         That video was sickening. If there hadn't been children in it, I wouldn't have believed it was real. That should be illegal.

                         replyreport
             3. 0

                Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                http://youtu.be/BhIGmAzCqFY

                replyreport
                1. 68

                   aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   At the end, he himself is confused as to whether it's fiction, or real?
                   I guess he's clueless about the spirit he's operating in.

                   replyreport
                   1. 69

                      aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Hi aka,
                      
                      Well he seems to be making a good living out of his deceptions, so no wonder he's staying ignorant about his 'power source'!
                      
                      Any news on travel plans yet?

                      replyreport
                      1. 0

                         Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         to break the hypnosis of years of what I had been brainwashed with, I took myself away & applied rational thinking.
                         His aim wasn't to deconvert people from their beliefs - he was illustrating how easy it is to make people feel like they are having a 'spiritual' experience

                         replyreport
                   2. 0

                      Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      he doesn't have any supernatural power source.  He's a mentalist & illusionist.  He makes it clear when he 'reads minds' etc that he's not psychic - he doesn't believe in the supernatural.  He used to be a pentecostal christian

                      replyreport
                      1. 69

                         aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         Ahh! I see, so because he tells you he has no 'supernatural power source' you believe him, his word is sufficient evidence for you, but a believers is not, OK I can see the logic there, no need for further examination.
                         
                         I've seen the 'Jesus Camp' rubbish before, no more a supporter of that than you are, actually don't think it works and more likely to drive them into the enemy's hands when they reach puberty, like I said the enemy takes his deceptions where he finds them.
                         
                         Now if you were brainwashed, your conversion was not hypnosis, with hypnosis you cannot make a person do what they will not do, or so I was taught when I started to study it 35 years ago, (it looked like a good living then).
                         
                         That fact alone makes one question the validity of the video, I mean, were they all atheists who secretly wished they could believe? and as such were able to be hypnotised?
                         
                         Brainwashing on the other hand takes serious conditioning, and mainly will be retained because the person brainwashed would stay stuck in their conditioning, unless you re brainwashed them into some other brainwashed mutation.
                         
                         Which is why I dislike the 'Jesus Camp' stuff, 'cos it opens the kids up to receiving fresh brainwashing from the enemy.
                         
                         Did you attend something like 'Jesus Camp'?

                         replyreport
                         1. 0

                            Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            I thought you were right into the pentecostal scene.  I went to many 'jesus camps' and every week at church was this kind of performance. 
                            This was brainwashing that suffocated the development of my rational brain for many years. 
                            The only enemy is the religionists who indoctrinate children with this garbage.
                            You obviously haven't heard of conversational hypnosis.  It is not necessary to ask permission to hypnotise before it works.  People in the pentecostal scene are wide open to suggestion with all the music etc.
                            The more traditional churches get in the 'trance' state with their traditions, candles etc

                            replyreport
                            1. 69

                               aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               Oh we agree on something BB, I was fortunate, coming from an occult background, I recognised false stuff when I saw it, and recognised it for what it is, the enemies deception, so no argument there.
                               
                               I was reeled in with the AoG, but have no idea what the US version may be like, my first church was still pretty much 'underground' as only Catholicism was legal in Spain where I came to faith, at least at that time, so we were kinda an outpost in 'hostile' terrain and not very observant of what the AoG head Office referred to.
                               
                               After that I have always been in 'free' churches, when I have been involved at all.
                               
                               My walk is with Christ, yes sometimes that takes me into traditional churches, but more often than not, I feel uncomfortable when I see them start their 'order of service' for I have found that the Holy Spirit does not run to anyone's timetable or respond because He is summoned.

                               replyreport
                               1. 0

                                  Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  maybe the AoG over your way is milder than in Australia & New Zealand?  The megachurch vid I posted under eaglekiwi comes from AoG.
                                  
                                  The NZ & Aust pentecostals copied off the US

                                  replyreport
       2. 75

          Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Baileybear
          Illusionist 'converts' atheists to believe in God: interesting
          
          The mind of suggestion is a very powerful thing, a hypnotist had me almost doing a strip tease on a hypnotist stage show. He then told me after the show that he could not get me to do it because my mind was too aware of what was going on

          replyreport
          1. 75

             Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Maybe!!! I could start a God cult too and make a great deal of money.
             
             NAHHH, my conscious would bother me to death.

             replyreport
          2. 75

             Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Good point Castle.
             
             Its funny isnt it ,we send our children to school and various clubs and groups to be what educated?.....well we hope they are being educated.
             
             When I was working in the education system ,most parents were unaware of what we were teaching their little darlings.
             
             But of course thats not called being indoctrinated ,evolution slides in through a different door...

             replyreport
          3. 0

             Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             I watched a video clip of this hypnotist making a guy 'drunk' - was quite amusing
             http://youtu.be/zryGzTbU49I

             replyreport
    2. 75

       Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You know the answer to that DJ
       
       Because they can....and they do.
       
       
       It would be refreshing if eveyone left the word "you" out of responses though.
       
       Y'know attack the subject and not the person

       replyreport
13. 74

    getitriteposted 11 years ago

    Since the "converted" person seems to always "choose" the religion prevalent in their culture(the one they've been exposed to from childhood)it suggests that there is a subliminal suggestion already present.
    
    I'd like to see an atheist whose been raised in another culture, and know nothing of Christianity, convert to Christianity...after a near death experience.
    
    Does anyone have any examples?

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       problem these days is that unless you are in a tribe or cult isolated away form the internet, radio, TV you will have awareness of different religions globally.  When I was researching my hub on death, I found a quote about an atheist NDE where a middle eastern woman took away his pain.

       replyreport
    2. 69

       aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Nice aspect, I will take a look for that, but you are giving us a three part triangulation.
       
       If I found that, would you change your stance, or just call it a fluke?

       replyreport
       1. 74

          getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          It would, of course, be open to further investigation.  I am not prone to just taking things on face value.  Especially since not one believer has produced ANY evidence of this concept that they worship...yet.

          replyreport
          1. 69

             aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Every believer is evidence!
             
             I will grant you that the majority of professing Christians would be hard pressed to offer evidence from their lives, but believers are living testimony in themselves. First hand evidence.

             replyreport
             1. 0

                Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                measurable evidence that would hold up in a court of law?  I think not

                replyreport
14. 60

    thirdmilleniumposted 11 years ago

    There is no hell.
    Even if there is one, it can not be a tourist spot, nor can it be open to visits by anyone, be he an atheist, agnostic or fervently religious.

    replyreport
15. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    An Asperger's View
    
    Nothing really new with respect to the Pentecostal movement.
    
    Bit like a rock concert ,no two meetings  are quite the same.

    replyreport
    1. 75

       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I thought the whole Amazing! Howard Storm Show was too extreme. From extreme atheist to extreme Christian and he make money from both.
       
       Must be like:  I was always high drugs now I’m high on Jesus
       
       A better ending would be the Wizard of OZ show, at first he was enjoying the high on power and hiding from the witch. Then later he found middle ground solutions for courage, the heart and mind

       replyreport
       1. 0

          Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          which howard storm show?

          replyreport
          1. 75

             Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Baileybear
             
             It's from aka-dj first post
             
             Please watch this video from beginning to end before you post a comment.
             
             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vj0qKth … re=related

             replyreport
             1. 0

                Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                apparently most people report pleasant NDEs, even atheists.  Having a 'hell' one is not so common

                replyreport
    2. 0

       Baileybearposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       some pentecostal churches are like a rock concert - coloured lights, crowds etc.
       Here's a mega church in Australia: 
       
       
       http://youtu.be/m_OVrA_wjwI

       replyreport
16. 61

    dutchman1951posted 11 years ago

    Hell is a Christian Invention to scare religionists strait!
    
    athiest, real ones, have no fear or concern for it.
    
    Satanism, from what I have seen of the practice, and been around in my years, are usualy, afronted folks, insulted by religion and its practice of overwelming people and are countering it with open distain. Problem is Satanism, is also a religon! and it also denies reality.
    
    as proof I offer you the Opening sentences in the "Satanic Bible!"  quote" everything real is un-real" Everything True is un-true"  We have advanced to far as a planet to know the universe and earth is not real or un-true?
    
    neither Devil, Satanisat etc.. have anything to do with atheism, and true practice of the lifestyle and personal belief that God does not exhist.
    
    it is freedom of choice, not a sin, or any other Christian concept of it.

    replyreport
    1. 68

       aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       "Hell is a Christian Invention to scare religionists strait!"
       Actually, it was Jesus who spoke of it, here;
       4“Dear friends, don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot do any more to you after that. 5But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell.a Yes, he’s the one to fear.

       replyreport
       1. 85

          earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I'll look after my body if it's all the same to you thanks!

          replyreport
          1. 68

             aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             By all means, do.
             
             It's actually scriptural for you to "love your flesh", IE take care of it.
             Even more if you are a Christian, because we are told that "we are the temple of the Holy Spirit". So, we ought not defile it with , . . well, . . anything harmful, immoral etc.
             
             If the picture of you is accurate, you look pretty healthy to me.

             replyreport
             1. 85

                earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Well I feel at least that good DJ. And all without religion.

                replyreport
                1. 68

                   aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Good for you.
                   I don't care much for religion either, but that discussion has been flogged to death, so we won't go there.

                   replyreport
                   1. 85

                      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      You ARE religion DJ.

                      replyreport
                      1. 68

                         aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         The last time I looked in the mirror, I was a man, but I will take it under advice!
                         
                         Are you ATHEISM?
                         
                         I doubt it. Or are you just trying to wind me up?

                         replyreport
                         1. 85

                            earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Just winding you up mate!

                            replyreport
                            1. 68

                               aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  
                               
                               Too tired to get wound up, but I'm smiling.

                               replyreport
                               1. 85

                                  earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                  Smiling is good.

                                  replyreport
17. 68

    Dannycraftsposted 11 years ago

    I'm not religious, but I think that experiencing reality without a body makes gives you the opportunity to see it all. I think even though he is following the bible, he has a more clear idea of how things work.

    replyreport
18. 89

    Bibowenposted 11 years ago

    I watched that video and it's sobering. Like many others, I am skeptical about the contents, but I also believe that things happen that are not subject to empirical investigation because of their unpredictability. It's too simplistic to deny their happening because we could not verify them by the rigors of scientific analysis.
    
    It also struck me that if what this man experienced was real (and there have been other similar reports of such events--both of heaven and of hell--then the worst, the very worst people in the world are those that are deceiving people, their children, their friends, by going around and saying "there is no hell" when they really don't know.
    
    We all have (or did have) a fear of hell. It's not just a "psychological condition" because of the conditioning of our teaching or "existential dread."
    
    Anyone who has ever seen the movie "Ghost" knows what I'm talking about. I have forgotten many more graphic images on film, but I have never forgotten the image of that man (I don't even remember the character's name now) being dragged to the eternal basement, and it's been a long time ago since I saw it. And I don't imagine any one else has forgotten it either who saw the film, regardless of whether or not they were taught to believe in hell.

    replyreport
19. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    At least Earnest has a keen sense of humour,I like that in an Atheist -hehe

    replyreport
    1. 85

       earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       A very Australian sense of humour though.... doesn't always travel well.
       
       Do German's even have a sense of humour?
       
       My German mate gets none of my humour at all!
       
       With apologies to my German grandfather of course!

       replyreport
20. 85

    earnestshubposted 11 years ago

    Waiting for the bus the other day, the wind blew all but one of the umbrellas inside out.
    
    I commented that it may get windy later, and never raised a smile. Geez what a tough audience!

    replyreport
    1. 68

       aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       That's Melbourne for you!
       
       Must be, people are like the weather.

       replyreport
       1. 85

          earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Agreed DJ, usually a friendly lot, and it was a lousy day.
          I thought they may all have been from outta town.

          replyreport
          1. 68

             aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Ex-Queenslanders returning.

             replyreport
             1. 85

                earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Ya know, there could be a whole bunch of that going on!
                We just got a right wing government after about a million years of the left.
                Come to think of it they would have been arriving!

                replyreport
                1. 68

                   aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   What I should have said was, ex-Melbournians who moved to Qld, returning!

                   replyreport
                   1. 85

                      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Spot on DJ.
                      We get a fair bit of that. Victoria is a very strong economy, and stable to boot. Queensland has a lot of "banana benders" who think and move pretty slowly.

                      replyreport
21. 60

    danishkaleemposted 11 years ago

    u did ur best efforts

    replyreport
22. 63

    Richard Fernandezposted 11 years ago

    From an objective standpoint:
    
    You have to consider the source. Really, consider the sources, both of them.
    
    In law anecdotal evidence has been PROVEN as unreliable at best, do not even ask about the scientific method.
    
    If you want to try and prove that an afterlife exists, I would recommend utilizing empirical methods to persuade us who favor reason and logic for our beliefs.
    
    As for HELL vs. afterlife: To believe in hell you must believe in evil. Evil simply does not exist. I would love to open a dialogue with anyone who would like to open up the OBJECTIVE discussion.

    replyreport