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Is Jesus Christ really Michael the ark angel?

  1. profile image53
    haj3396posted 5 years ago

    Yes, Michael is Jesus Christ.

    1. Kyle Payne profile image61
      Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Sir it is spelled arch not ark, in this context. And also, where did you hear that Jesus Christ is Michael the Arch Angel?

      1. profile image53
        haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you,  I am happy you understood and help me. From they Bible

    2. psycheskinner profile image84
      psycheskinnerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Based on what?  That it would make a good movie?

      1. couturepopcafe profile image60
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        That was a good movie. One of my favorites. Funny.

    3. profile image57
      passingthewordposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      haj are you mormon? they taught this for a long time.

    4. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Naaaw! Jesus is the Son of God, and Micheal is an angel who was created by God for a specific task. The Son was with the Father before the foundation of the world, and any other creation by God.

  2. tlmcgaa70 profile image77
    tlmcgaa70posted 5 years ago

    if i am not mistaken that is something the jehovahs witnesses believe. if CHRIST created all things, then that includes ALL the angels, including Michael. CHRIST was before Michael was.

    1. Kyle Payne profile image61
      Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      God created all things not Jesus Christ.

      1. psycheskinner profile image84
        psycheskinnerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Many sect of Christianity don't accept the distinction. The trinity are all essentially one.

        1. Kyle Payne profile image61
          Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          They are one but only when they act through God.

          1. psycheskinner profile image84
            psycheskinnerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            There is diversity of opinion on that. Me, I don't endorse either position--being a heathen and all.

            1. Kyle Payne profile image61
              Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Why would you so readily commit to the idea of being an heathen?

            2. profile image53
              haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

              What about what the bible states, give me your opinion? Ephesians 3-9  And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

              1. couturepopcafe profile image60
                couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                Michael and Gabriel are the warrior Arch Angels. The leaders of the alleged battle.

                When the Bible refers to angels, it either gives the name of a specific angel or just says an angel.

                If the text reads The Angel of God it is specific reference to Jesus. So the words The Angel identifies Jesus, an angel can be any angel, unidentified or by name.

    2. profile image53
      haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Remember, once be did not believe the Jesus was God, the question was ask How can A men be God. God the father used Jesus Christ to test man, and he used Michael Jesus Christ to test angel. Show me?

      hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

      6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

      Let me answer that Question, which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,  not sons, Michael,...I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? whi is him and he? Michael.  Who is the firstbegotten, Jesus Christ, who do the angel worship Jesus Christ. Do angel have angels, no. revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

      8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven
      What was Satan name in heaven Lucifer, what was Jesus Christ"s name in heaven Michael

      1. Disappearinghead profile image77
        Disappearingheadposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Hebrews 1:5 is a rhetorical question. The answer is obvious, God never called an angel his son. That includes Michael.

        Which incidentally pours water on the bonfire of those who think that the sons of God who shagged the daughters of men in Genesis were angels creating human/angel hybrids. By dint of Hebrews 1:5 we can be sure that the sons of God were human.

        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          BRAVO!!!
          This staggers a lot of christians, especially those who subscribe to the book of enoch.
          Nice to read those words
          Thanks.

          The Words is getting out... Truths are being revealed.

          1. rLcasaLme profile image74
            rLcasaLmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            ditto that.

    3. Edwinoel Tanglao profile image80
      Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Saint Michael the Archangel, is a powerful prince of angels against evil as he overpowered Satan in that battle in heaven before Satan was finally driven out of heaven as in Revelation 12:7-9.  He was protector and defender of Israel against its accuser, the angel Samael who was likewise thrown down from heaven, see Daniel 10:13.

      It is in the wrong interpretation of the bible, particularly in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … rsion=NIV, and in John 5:25-29, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … rsion=NIV, that others, including Jehovah's Witness followers, have confused Jesus as Saint Micheal the Archangel.

      Jesus has been in God since the beginning of creation as in John 1:3, and he was 'I am' even before Abraham, the "Word made Flesh," as in John 1:1-18, as the Son of God made into Man. or the Son of Man, and Jesus is One with the Father, as in John 14:6, He is the true Master as in Matthew 6:24, He is in the fullness of the diety bodily as in Colossians 2:6-15, and he is the 'only way to life eternal' as in John 3:15, Jesus is the 'Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,' as in Revelation 22,  and he is to 'judge the living and the dead on the day of judgment, as in Acts 10:42. 

      While Jesus emphasized that 'The Father is greater than I,' as in John 14:28, and he was praying ',Our Father in Heaven,' at the garden of Gethsemane, it was because he was living in flesh, honoring his Almighty Father, witnessing in humility and obedience to the Father, as we too need to humble ourselves in obedience to Jesus, who is One with the Father, One with our Creator, and now, Jesus being our One True God himself as he is in our being, having been in God since the time of creation, and that crucified Christ in us made manifest in the protein molecule called laminin, which binds our cells and tissues together to form one whole body in us, it is our connection to God in Christ, and does it not point of relevance to the truth in Christ' waiting to be revealed in us as in Colossians 2:6-15?

      In man, believing in a three in one God is impossible, but in our faith, and 'with God, all things are possible,' as we may never fathom God's wisdom with our mere mortal and much inferior mind, unless we may truly believe in the our hearts and spirit.  Always pray through the Holy Spirit that we may be guided to the truth, and not to things of evil that tries to confuse us and veer us away from the path to heaven through our One True God in Christ Jesus, being One with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image60
        couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        I think explaining something like the Trinity in laymen's terms is helpful. Everyone can relate to and understand mind, body and spirit. Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

  3. Millercl profile image77
    Millerclposted 5 years ago

    The Jehovah Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists both believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus.

    This is primarily due to a reading in Revelation where Michael is described as leading an army of Angels to defeat Satan (Rev 12:7) and then later Christ is described with the armies of heaven following Him. (19:14)

    You can visit http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_11.htm to learn more.

    Also, as a side-note, @Kyle Pane, the Scriptures do clarify Jesus being the creator of all things: John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16.

    "All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3

    "For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible... all things were created through Him and for Him." Col 1:16

    1. Michele Travis profile image70
      Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Then why do they change  his name in the bible?  Why don't the keep his name the same?

      1. Kyle Payne profile image61
        Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Whose name?

        1. Michele Travis profile image70
          Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Jesus.  That is not the only thing they change.  There are other things they change, like what Jesus was crucified on.  He was crucifed on a tree not a cross.  But, I promise not to go on and on.  I got it all out on my hubs.  But, I am not asking you to read them.  Please don't think that, please.

          1. Kyle Payne profile image61
            Kyle Payneposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            When the Bible speaks of the tree and cross, they are the same. The cross back then was made of wood from an olive tree. They are merely two terms that define the same thing. And as for Jesus, His different names portray different qualities of Him. These things are just like a nickname would be to us, just a greater level.

            1. Michele Travis profile image70
              Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Actually that is the only time I have ever heard it that way.  Kind of makes sense now.

          2. profile image0
            SarahBodoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Crucified on a tree? I am hearing it for the first time in my life.

            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              the tree references
              Deuteronomy 21:23   His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God gives thee for an inheritance. (and a few other verses)
              Paul said:
              Galatians 3:13   Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree:
              Peter said:
              1 Peter 2:24   Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 
              tree and cross are synonymous

      2. Millercl profile image77
        Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Hey Michele,

        I don't know where you stand theologically but I just want to clarify I don't believe that interpretation of Jesus being Michael is correct. I was just hoping to clarify the view!

        Jesus is not a created being and to carry out the assumptions from John 1:3, "All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." That would mean either Jesus made Himself, or He has always existed. I tend to believe Jesus is God and the He exists eternally.

        Another helpful understanding would be the authority Jesus shows in rebuking Satan in Matt 4:10 and the lack of authority Michael has in Jude 1:9, when, "he[Michael] dared not presume a blasphemous judgement but said, 'The Lord rebuke you."

        I hope that is helpful.

        1. Michele Travis profile image70
          Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Then why is Jesus called the Son of God?  I do understand that all things were created through him,  but not by him.  God, created his Son first.  If Jesus were God, then why would he pray to God?  Why would he pray to himself?  Remember what happend when he was baptized?  Why would the sky have opened up and a voice come out.  Would he be talking to himself.  No,  I don't think so.   Jesus is not God.  He is the Son of God.

          1. Millercl profile image77
            Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            That is a whole different subject.

            Are you a JW?

            1. Michele Travis profile image70
              Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              if you think Jesus is God then why did you write this
              We should read our scriptures with a mindset seeking to see how it is our Lord is going to make His name great, particularly through the Son, Jesus Christ. Christ sought to glorify the Father and sought to do His will continually.

              1. Millercl profile image77
                Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                The post is about whether Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

                Generally, Christians understand Jesus as God. (generally). Now if you are comfortable to claim that Jesus is not God, then are you comfortable to reveal the rest of your hand? Asking if you are a Jehovah's Witness is fair.

                1. Michele Travis profile image70
                  Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually they don't say Jesus is God.  And no I am not a Jehovah's Witness,  however I do study with them.   But, I do not agree with them in everything they teach.  So, what is the name of your religion?

                  1. Michele Travis profile image70
                    Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    Milerci   what about this scripture?
                    "The word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me" (John 14:24).

          2. Druid Dude profile image59
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Excellent Michele. If it doesn't make sense...no one can force it to make sense.

          3. Druid Dude profile image59
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            another point is that Peter said that Jesus was a man approved of God, in short, he was Chosen. Paul claimed that if you are tempted, that is a sin, and Jesus was tempted.  Why would God, a perfect being inhabit a human body to forgive everyone of their sins on condition of their belief? Might as well stay in heaven and forgive them from there. Seems pretty pointless. Showing off?

            1. Millercl profile image77
              Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Where does Paul say temptation is a sin?

            2. tlmcgaa70 profile image77
              tlmcgaa70posted 5 years agoin reply to this

              it isnt sin to be tempted...it is sin to give in to the temptation.
              as for CHRIST...MickeySr said it best when he said that CHRIST was 100% man...and 100% GOD. HIS physical form was human while in spirit HE wasGOD...i dont think when CHRIST is referred to as being GOD, that that means HE is the Father. CHRIST says many times that HE and GOD the FATHER were one. i believe this means they were of one purpose, like minded. have you ever had a friend who thought the same way you do, so much so that even their ideals and principles were a mirror of yours? i play a game called lord of the rings online. in it i started a kinship (aka a guild). melly became my first officer. i soon learned that if there was anyone i felt 100% comfortable with leaving in charge of the kin when i had to be gone, it was her. we both felt the same towards the kin. we both wanted the exact same things for it. we knew the kind of people we wanted in the kin...and the kind we didnt. every decision i made, she whole heartedly approved, and vise versa. that is being of one mind and purpose. GOD and CHRIST are 2 separate beings, yet for all intents and purposes, they are one. CHRIST was with GOD from the start, and HE has been doing GODs Will. CHRIST came from GODs bosum...HE truly is GODs Son. HIS Divine Spirit was born into flesh to save us, and to fulfill GODs Word and HIS Will.

              1. Michele Travis profile image70
                Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                I agree with you, and it is confusing to some.  Jesus Christ is God's Son and our Savoir.  He was God's first creation.  Remember the first time when God spoke in the bible he said " We"

            3. couturepopcafe profile image60
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              @DD - not claiming this is truth, just playing the other side of the debate. Jesus was a man approved by God means Jesus as a man/human.

              To be tempted is a sin would have had to have been changed at some point. It probably originally read to give in to temptation but the church saw fit to put the fear into people for the church's profit.

      3. profile image53
        haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

        The same reason they change Lucifer name to Satan

    2. Edwinoel Tanglao profile image80
      Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Well said Millerci.  Anything that deviates from this is a denial of Christ which may only be influenced by the evil one.  I pray that no one be deceived by this lie, that all may be enlightened in the light of Christ Jesus, if we, together with our love ones, all want to be saved from the fires of hell.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Since they claim to garner their beliefs from the  Christian scriptures, who are you to call them wrong? The only thing you can do is believe per your understanding. As they do. Why do believers comment on the fires of hell  and Satan when discussing the beliefs of other Christians? I would think you all put your hopes in Christ.

        1. Millercl profile image77
          Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Emile I think you are on point.

          One thing that might be helpful in understanding some Christians is that in describing 'salvation' and such, it makes sense to pair it with what that salvation is from; God's wrath.

          Some people believe all kinds of things about hell and God's wrath, and some don't believe in it at all. But for those that do, it makes sense to include what salvation is from.

          I am sure your questions were rhetorical, but those questions generally get us n where. Am I right or am I right? (get it?)

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I think you are right that the question gets us no where. Many believers refuse to question. I find that incredibly odd. They appear to swallow it whole, completely bypassing the brain and then start talking about hell for others who swallowed something else whole. Does anyone who reads the Bible take the time to think? Do they attempt to compare their beliefs to the reality we know? Do they look at the history of the faith? Do they wonder why many of their their bizarre beliefs aren't in line with teachings over the centuries? Do they ever once consider how foolish, evil and completely clueless their words make the idea of a god look? It's insanity at times.

            1. profile image53
              haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Jesus Christ is the savior of the world
              Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people FROM THEIR sins. What and who was he before their was no sin. Michael the arch angel testing the angel to see who was on God the father's side.

              1. mischeviousme profile image60
                mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                You do reallize that, the more you defend it the more rediculous it sounds? Listen to what you are saying and compare it to the rational world and you will see how it does not fit in with the now of things.

                1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
                  WD Curry 111posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Hello?! There are all kinds of tourists. They don't see the natural attractions, because they are on tour.

                  1. mischeviousme profile image60
                    mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    I was such a devout christian at one point that I was able to convert just about everyone I ran across. I am not saying not to believe what you believe, just don't think of it as real. It does not help one's cause if they don't apply to their own spirit first. I got away from christianity because it was a fallacy to me and it just was not reallistic enough to put that much faith in. Now I still have the teachings, but I do not live of them, but by them. Scripture is nonsense, because they may just be words to some people and it is not how we truly feel. Take the meaning, not the word, make it original, then talk about it.

  4. IzzyM profile image89
    IzzyMposted 5 years ago

    Of course Michael was an ark angel. You must have heard of the song "Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah!"

    He can be Jesus if you want him to be too. Or Obama.

  5. Druid Dude profile image59
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    I think he is Lucifer redeemed.

  6. mischeviousme profile image60
    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago

    And behold, jesus was cast aside for being a heathen. Heathen actually refers to being of heath, a land to the north of israel around the time of buddha, 500 years before christ and even further back than that since there is no true historical record of it other than in biblical companion texts.

    1. Druid Dude profile image59
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Scotland.

      1. mischeviousme profile image60
        mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Darn! I forgot about Scotland...

        1. couturepopcafe profile image60
          couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          This is very interesting. Any reading material you can offer?

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I don't even remember what I was talking about with that one, probably being silly in a response to another. When I joke, it's not to hurt anyone or to prove my lofty position, I was just being silly for the sake of being silly.

  7. tlmcgaa70 profile image77
    tlmcgaa70posted 5 years ago

    Druid Dude wrote:
    another point is that Peter said that Jesus was a man approved of God, in short, he was Chosen. Paul claimed that if you are tempted, that is a sin, and Jesus was tempted.  Why would God, a perfect being inhabit a human body to forgive everyone of their sins on condition of their belief? Might as well stay in heaven and forgive them from there. Seems pretty pointless. Showing off?


    also, i dont understand what the problem is...everyone wants to have their cake and eat it to. if HE had just stayed in heaven and forgave everyone without question, you guys would complain that HE had not come and done it personally. never happy. the point is that HE came and sacrificed HIS life and those who believe will be forgiven and saved. GOD is still giving man the choice. and HE made it crystal clear how to obtain salvation. you guys want to live your lives in whatever manner you choose without taking accountability for your actions, then expect GOD to just welcome you into HIS home? it doesnt work that way...and I for one am glad it doesnt.

  8. WD Curry 111 profile image60
    WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago

    I have a better question. Is Ronald McDonald really Bozo the clown? We should boycott this kind of nonsense, not blabber about it.

    1. Druid Dude profile image59
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      If he was God, then he doesn't die. So he gave his earthly life, BIG DEAL! He's still immortal. I'm playing the Devil's Advocate and have been for a couple of days.

      1. Druid Dude profile image59
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        No, he's not Bozo, although he is now the "World's Most Famous Clown"...except for the years George Bush was in office.

        1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
          WD Curry 111posted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for clearing that up. I am now at peace.

          1. moonfroth profile image76
            moonfrothposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Good grief!  I just tuned into this MadHatter's Party, or should I say Abbott & Costello meet Monty Python!  The people who were posting seriously make the medieval debates on how many Angels could dance on the head of a pin look like the height of profundity.Get a Life!

            1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
              WD Curry 111posted 5 years agoin reply to this

              It is hard to follow these strings sometimes. It looks like this is a response to what I said, but it might be what I was responding to. I don't know. I don't care. I am now at peace.

              1. moonfroth profile image76
                moonfrothposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                @WD CURRY--No!  Not you!  You make good sense!  Sorry for any misunderstanding--and I agree:  it /is/ hard to follow the threads.

  9. Millercl profile image77
    Millerclposted 5 years ago

    I am not ignoring you Michelle.

    People respond so fast to these things. I just can't keep up!

    There are a lot of reasons I believe Jesus is God. I don't think right here is the best place to expound. I can write a Hub I suppose.

    "The word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me" (John 14:24).

    Now when I say that Jesus is God, I don't say He is the Father. I would say they are three persons, one being. Reconciling things like Jesus receiving worship, Him forgiving sins and then responding to questions of Himself as "I AM" are things a man claims he does and is blaspheming or does and is God.

    Also, (in reference Jesus dying on a cross), in order to remain just, the punishment for sin must be carried out. To forgive a sinner and to lavish grace on me, Jesus would need to delve out punishment. Otherwise, He would be an abomination.. Prov. 17:15 (Whoever justifies the wicked... is an abomination.) I would consider myself to have been wicked and then to be saved by Christ is to be justified. That justification comes by Christ taking my sin and then being punished on the cross. (taking the wrath of God that belongs to me)

    It isn't some arbitrary thing. It is a consistent and reliable truth.

    1. Michele Travis profile image70
      Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      What is your religion?

    2. Druid Dude profile image59
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      So you are pleased as punch to let Jesus take your lashes? And Heaven is full of people who would let one dude take their punishment? If there is really a paradise...those people aren't in it.

      1. Michele Travis profile image70
        Michele Travisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        No Druid we are not.  We are not pleased by it.  We are sorry about our sins.  Really sorry.  But, a lot of people read the bible and don't read the whole thing.  Revelation is a chapter many people do not understand and if I start talking about it millerci is going to come down here and try to rip me to shreds so I am not going to do that.

        1. Millercl profile image77
          Millerclposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          I don't understand Revelation very well other than there is a lot of symbolism. Also, I am sorry if you feel like I am shredding you. I enjoy talking about these things and I think there is a consistent way to account for a lot of the things people think are contradictory.

          Also, I believe Jesus took our sins by his own authority. Not by our permission but as an act of grace towards a sinful, dead people who really don't know better. I am thankful. Also, I believe because He is God, He is able to suffer the punishment for our sinfulness, to the fullest, die in His human form and then raise Himself three days later.

          Just like you Michele, I would say I am a Christian. I believe the bible.

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            For me, Buddha and Jesus were much the same. They saw that the ritual had become more important than the teaching and began to show there followers how this could be a mistake. I see it happening again, people are living out of books and not for the teachings there in. If you are to live for Christ, live for his teachings and be yourself. One gets nowhere on the road to enlightenment unless they can be original to their own mind and feelings. Let the teachings guide you, not rule your life.

      2. tlmcgaa70 profile image77
        tlmcgaa70posted 5 years agoin reply to this

        firstly...it isnt a matter of "letting" anyone do anything...it happened long before we were born...it is a matter of "accepting" what was done. i understadn how you feel...i would fight tooth and nail before i allowed another human to die in my stead. but CHRIST is not just human. HE did not die to save my physical life. HE died to save my spiritual one. HE is the only one who could have done that. I certainly could not save my own soul. HIS greatest punishment was not the torture on the cross or the fact HE would die physically...it was being separated from GOD for the first time ever. sin has that effect. compared to CHRIST, the relationship i have with GOD is not even the tip of the iceberg so to speak...yet I do not believe i could live without GOD. it is enough so i have an idea what HE suffered. i accept HIS sacrifice and thank HIM with my whole being. i certainly could never detest HIM for making such a sacrifice, giving such a gift.

        1. mischeviousme profile image60
          mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Why do people believe such things? I cannot grasp it for I come from a background of my own design and while I memorised the biblical teachings, I do not know how they can apply to anything. Just being is how I have reached a plateau, so to speak and religion was the farthest thing from my mind.

          But I digress. If you can put it into terms that make sense to me and I am enlightened further by it, I might just agree with you. But until you can say it without spouting scriptures that are not your own, then it will make no sense to me. Why can Christianss not think originally? Why can they not be purely themselves?

             I see religion as putting the blinders on, so to speak. I must see through my own eyes and perceptions or I see nothing at all. The true self know's nothing and therfor is not aware ot it's self and when we take up religion, we make it harder to see the self of which I speak. Can you explain God without the bible or is that the only frame of refference you have?

          1. tlmcgaa70 profile image77
            tlmcgaa70posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            i wasnt aware that i spouted scripture in my last post. GOD is my only religion, I am not part of organized religion. everything I know about GOD came from GOD. HE even corrected several views i had from when i was part of organized religion. i think the truth is that you have no desire to believe anything but what you already do, so you reject what others have to say when it disagrees with you.

            well, so do i. i know when someone speaks the truth because GOD softens my heart and lets me know it is to be accepted. even if it goes against what i believe at the moment, if GOD wants me to accept it, i find myself doing just that. when i dont feel GOD giving HIS approval concerning something...or when i feel HIS disapproval over something...those things i reject as false.

            1. mischeviousme profile image60
              mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              I wasn't aiming that at just you and I never truly disagree, I just challenge the notion to see if one knows exactly how they feel about it. I think you are a very wise person and that is a good thing. I may not totally see it your way, but I definitely think that you have an answer for yourself and that is all that matters.

              1. profile image53
                haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                Friends, I did not believe a man could be God, But Jesus is. When God the father create any think it have to be tested. He created us we are tested eact day. How was the angels test they were created. God the father put his son among the angels and then sat his position, as his son Hebrews 1:5-6. The same question we ask down hear is the question they ask in heave, How can an angel be God? This started the trouble in heaven and this is where sin begin.

  10. profile image63
    SanXuaryposted 5 years ago

    Lets see Jesus no Michael where did you get your Bible? Apparently it said Jesus and not Michael. Nope it looks like a conspiracy your wrong it said your mother is Jesus.

  11. rLcasaLme profile image74
    rLcasaLmeposted 5 years ago

    Only God is to be worshipped yet the angels worshipped Jesus at his birth. I'm sure Michael could have objected if he was worshipped. "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Revelation 19:10)

    Angels do not forgive sins.
    Angels cannot create yet Jesus fed 5,000 men out of nothing.
    Angels are not omniscient yet Jesus knows if one is going to heaven or not. He also knows things that are of the future.
    You do not beget something not of your own kind.
    Jesus Christ was the word in the beginning and everything was made through him. Thus, by just mere spoken words, the universe was created. By what? by the word - which is Him.
    Even angels do sin yet we know Christ cannot sin.
    If God will send only an angel as ransom for our sins, then the statement "For God so loved the world, that he gave us His only son" is diminished. If He sent only a creature, then we must not be of that great importance to Him.
    In Revelation, there was Jesus, and there was Michael. Why mention them in different names in the same book?


    One will arrive to a conclusion that Michael is Jesus if he is only looking at their similar titles and ignore the differences.
    If you're only going to look for similarities, then Melchizedek also qualifies for Jesus.

  12. Dave Mathews profile image60
    Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago

    Jesus is the Son of God. Why would the angels worship Jesus if he were simply one of them?

  13. moonfroth profile image76
    moonfrothposted 5 years ago

    Y'know, folks--that's EVERYBODY posting to this Discussion--when we book onto a talk about something, there's a fundamental expectation that 1)you listen to the other guy and 2) (having completed 1.) you then RESPOND to something or other he said.  You agree.  You disagree.  Perhaps you ask for some clarification of this or that.  Perhaps you suggest he consult this or that reference to clear up his addled thinking.  But whatever you choose to do--you RESPOND.  If you do not, you're just playing your own silly record player to yourself.  How mindlessly stupid is that?  Why not go stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself how right you are, how pure you are, how dumb or misguided or doomed everybody else is, or whatever you need to say to yourself to deal with whatever it is you fear. ON THE OTHER HAND, if you want to expand your understanding, come to a closer understanding of your relationship with your God (or Bozo the Clown), establish closer bonds with Others who are grappling with the same issues you are, or. . .or. . .or. . .then STOP mindlessly writing out again and again and again the mantra of your beliefs.  That's just repetitive stupidity.  And no Christian God or Jesus or Michael or Satan or Raphael or Moses or any of the other Big Guys on the Hill ever demanded stupidity from their "followers"  THINK about it!!!!!

    1. couturepopcafe profile image60
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      moonfroth - there's no room for logic and rationale in the religious forums. lol

  14. profile image0
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    no Micheal is not Jesus

  15. profile image0
    practicposted 5 years ago

    I don't think this question is just a matter of vote or opinion.

    To answer this question properly requires quite a bit of foundation understanding:

    1. The nature of the "mystery of God" which was "hidden" in times past, but revealed more openly in the incarnation of Christ as a man.

    2. The recognition that there was an angel in the Old Testament who was not merely a created being but accepted worship, had God's name "in him", was called Jehovah (when he spoke with Abraham), was captain of the Lord's hosts, wrestled with Jacob ("I have seen God face to face"), appeared to Manoah ("we have seen God"), etc.

    3. An understanding of the divine order as revealed in the Ark of the Covenant (two angels surrounding the divine presence), or at the gates of the garden (two angels with swords guarding the place where God met man), or when Christ was on earth (two guardian angels at the tomb).

    4. A proper analysis of the struggle in heaven, and what it was that made Lucifer (one of the "covering cherubs") think he should have a higher place.

    5. An understanding of the divine riddle: the name of Michael which means, "who is like God?"

    6. An understanding of Christ's position as Son even before his birth in Bethlehem ("God gave His only begotten Son"...it does not say God gave Christ to be begotten; see also various references in the Old Testament to God's Son.)

    7. A clear distinction between creation and being born...angels are created, so was Adam. Other humans are born, and now we are to be born again. What is the difference? And why will this order (of marriage and birth) not be continued in heaven?

    8. And finally, it would also help to understand the purpose of God in creating man, and what his final destination will be, especially as revealed in the heavenly vision of Revelation 4 and 5, where the redeemed sit with Christ in His throne, closer to God than the angels who never fell.

    Since none of these points are being discussed, I find the conversation a bit superficial. Where are the Bereans?!

    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      So we have to accept that jesus was alive way back in the bible.. if so... his birth becomes a mockery.
      What are we saying now, that jesus who was in the form of micheal, shed that form and became a zygote and was birthed as the body we call jesus.
      Clearly the holy spirit conceived the birth of jesus. So did God strip micheal of his heavenly suit and then stuff him into mary...
      Indeed the story is somewhat ridiculous.

      2. michael is mentioned 5xs as an angel, 3 in the book of daniel, 2 in revelations so any inference to micheal elsewhere in the bible  is reading something different into scripture than is allowed.

      4. Cherubs or Cherubim are described as having the body and head of a man, but also the head or face of an ox, a lion, and an eagle. They have two sets of wings, four human hands, and their entire body, wings, hands, and all is completely covered with eyes.
      This is completely NOT the picture we have of satan.
      The covering cherub was tyre who under hirams leadership helped to build the first temple. This verse speaks of tyre having a better relationship with babylon and not some mythical fallen cherub.

      7. There was no birth in the garden either. The end mirrors the beginning.

      3.  two witnesses as per law.

      4. If you want to talk about lucifer, we just can't. Lucifer is not a doctrine. We are not allowed to take one verse and make it a doctrine. We cannot assume lucifer is satan or anything other than the morning star, we call venus in a metaphorical phrase depicting a short bright show - loosely stated.

      7. a distinction between created and being formed.. adam was formed.

      5. There's a lot of names that have interesting meanings, doesn't mean they are that though.

      8. I will leave alone for now.

      I'd like to know about any angel in the OT that accepted worship. Got a verse for that?

      just sayin... smile   enjoy

      1. profile image0
        practicposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto Him, "What saith my Lord unto His servant?" Joshua 5:14.

        >Indeed the story is somewhat ridiculous.

        As you wish. I have nothing more to say.

        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          We could sure banter that around.
          The king james is off a bit. To fall down in reverence is not worship. worship is something that happens after the falling down, or prostrating oneself in a position of humbleness and vulnerability.

          We see episodes of angel worship and it is always stopped by the angel. I am sure you know the verses.

          Many other translations say reverence instead of worship in this passage, Strongs, as usual is all over the place with quite a few definitions but, the interlinear is in accordance with a falling down but no act of worship.. just a question.

          I wonder who the captain of the host of heaven is?
          Thanks

        2. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 5 years agoin reply to this

          5:13 says "man" a man stood. The person there is not an angel.

          When you see "LORD" in the KJV it represents the name Jehovah, or Yahweh.
          Refer to 6:2

          Angels are not called by the name Jehovah.

          It is considered by scholars the possibility this was Christ before His physical presence here on earth, stepping through time, as, if the assumption be the actuality of the case would have to be so as God is not limited by time.

          But, trusting in our own understanding is an error. Proverbs 3:5

          We cannot say anything for certainty except that which is certainly said by the Bible is true. 6:2 says it is the LORD Jehovah, the One true living God.

          That cannot be debated, without everyone noting your side agenda, for it is a deliberate and obvious fact conveyed by the statement itself.

          That should be where it rests, if you serve the Lord, in that He said it was Him and that is what He wants us to know. Had He wanted us to know for a certainty anything more He would tell us, as I know of no reference to this occurance from any other scripture.

          Also, this is not my opinion.

          It is logical reasoning from a factual Biblical guidance.

          I do not add or take away, as the Bible contains all that needs saying.

          1. mischeviousme profile image60
            mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            And you would read a comic book and believe it as true? The bible was, for a long time, a political tool. Of course you can't debate, for back then, if you did, you would have been excommunicated and possibly disarticulated.

      2. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        4.        A better relationship with Gods people ... not Babylon lol.

  16. Greek One profile image74
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    Jesus is not an ark...

    nor is he a yacht, battleship or fishing boat

  17. mischeviousme profile image60
    mischeviousmeposted 5 years ago

    The truth in the matters of God will remain as subjective as the observer, an attachment to the individual idea.

  18. profile image53
    haj3396posted 5 years ago

    Was Jesus christ, Michael the archangel? YES!!!!!!! It's amazing no one believe that michael is the archangel, but no one can disprove he not. You and give your funny saying, but, where is your evidents, that he not the archangels. anyone God Create he test, what was the angels test. Man was test by puting a man amount them, and saying he is God. man said this is crazy, How can a man be God. I remember when he was a child, a young person, and how , how can he be God? God the father put jesus as michael amount the angels and then after he had lived with them sat the postion of Michael, the Bible  is clear, God call the angels together and ask the question,

    Hebrew 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Who is the firstbegotten?
    Do angel worship angel?
    What was the asngel test?

    God said I am the same to day, yesterday and forever/

 
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