Were you homeschooled?

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   WriterGigposted 16 years ago

   I often wonder if there are other formerly-homeschooled adults out there. Homeschooling was relatively unheard of when I was in school, but the numbers today are huge.
   
   I wrote a very short hub about being hoemschooled. Curious if there's anyone else on here who was, too?

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      vrajehrcposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      My main concern would be in regards to social aspects, and restricting your children's ability to form their own beliefs and ideas.

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         wychicposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         I'm just curious how homeschooling would necessarily restrict a child's own beliefs and ideas more than public schooling? The public school is very big on conformity and can't possibly teach a very wide set of beliefs and ideas because they have so many kids to get the message through to.

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   thooghunposted 16 years ago

   In my country its virtually inexistent (much like the rest of western Europe). I've always been a little skeptic about home-schooling. My main concern would be in regards to social aspects, and restricting your children's ability to form their own beliefs and ideas.
   
   What were your experiences, where these problems (or could they be)?

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   Patty Inglish, MSposted 16 years ago

   I was not home schooled, but I have worked with home schooled youth in academics (tutoring) and some sports. It was two large, countywide groups; one seemed to be doing very well and the other seemed to have socialization problems and lacked getting along well with non-homeschool families and authority figures. The youngsters in the second group had greater difficulty finding and maintaining employment as teens and young adults.
   
   How was your experience?

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4. 77

   barrancaposted 16 years ago

   I have taught several homeschooled students and have one in one of my classes currently.  Such students I have taught usually come pretty well prepared to compete academically at least in my English classes, but they also are typically very shy and a bit nerdy.  They seem to sense and exhibit their own difference.

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      saraliseposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Regarding socialization: I was homeschooled--all the way. I was so busy in various activities with friends, church, the park district, the YMCA, etc. that I can never recall feeling isolated or friendless. Currently I'm a junior at a liberal arts college and I'm confident that my well-rounded upbringing prepared me well for college both socially and academically. Whenever anybody on campus finds out I was homeschooled I always get the pleasure of seeing their jaw drop with a gasp: "Were you really?!?" they always ask incredulously.
      
      In fact, just recently I was talking to the department chair of biology and he started raving about two of the top students in the department. We hadn't been discussing homeschooling up to that point, but it turned out that those two students happened to both have been homeschooled from kindergarten to high school graduation.
      
      In response to your experiences with homeschoolers being nerdy and shy, I would just ask that you keep an open mind regarding homeschoolers and don't jump quickly to stereotypes. I don't doubt that you have met a nerdy, shy homeschooler, but there are nerdy, shy public and private school kids as well. Furthermore, most of the homeschoolers I know (approximately 100) are outgoing, independent, law-abiding and highly involved people.

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      wychicposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder about this comment...by "shy" do you mean actually avoiding interaction, or just being quiet in class? When I went into public school I was quiet in class so I could actually listen to the teacher (unlike most of my classmates) and oftentimes in the halls I wouldn't bother stopping and talking to any of my friends because I had no interest in hearing who had a crush on who or who got the drunkest at the weekend's party....I wasn't shy, just didn't indulge in as much idle chatter as my classmates.

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   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   Interesting, we decided not to homeschool our kids exactly because of possible social issues later. Based on what you guys are posting, we were right

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      belief713posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I wasn't homeschooled, but always hated school. I didn't feel like I learned as much as I could have, which is why I want to homeschool our children. I can teach them most of what's learned in school, and if not, not only is my mom a teacher, but in our area there are LOTS of homeschool groups that get together on weekly basis' and swap or just socialize.
      
      My biggest concern was also the socialization issue, but there are plenty of ways around that. You just have to be willing to commit a little extra time to involving yourself and your children in some extra activities.

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   renegadeoffunkposted 16 years ago

   I was not homeschooled but I wish I had been. Only during the last few years have I discovered just how much of a waste my public education was. I find the whole system to be corrupt by its nature, and not just in the United States too. I have traveled a good bit and, as another user said, homeschooling is virtually non-existent in many other countries and legally forbidden in dozens more.
   
   As for the idea that homeschooling causes "socialization" problems, all I will say for now is that, in most cases, there are very good reasons for those problems.

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   wychicposted 16 years ago

   I was indeed homeschooled, and looks like I need to create a hub about it .
   
   I've heard so many people worried about their homeschooled kids having a social life, but it all depends on how you do it, for me my social interaction went WAY down when I entered public school in high school. My sister and I each had 12 4-H projects, played sports through the local recreation center, had classes with other homeschoolers in the region, were in a couple of projects at church, and I played violin through the local youth orchestra (we also had private piano lessons, but that doesn't say much for social stuff).
   
   Yep, I'm off to write about my homeschooled experiences...now I dearly hope I can convince the significant other to let me homeschool our kids, it's very obvious to him that I received a much better education than he did and I like having more control over finding new ways for my kid to learn and actually being able to track his progress, those standardized tests just don't tell you much of anything.

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Those "standardized tests that don't tell you much of anything" told me and my parents at the age of 12 that I had a college level reading comprehension.
      
      I also tested for gifted and came a couple points shy as well as passing an IQ test with an IQ in the range of 130-140 and the test was not adjusted for a particular condition that young children sometimes have which causes them to be hyper (which I was thought to have at the time).
      
      I was speaking in sentences by the age of 1 1/2 years old and was reading at the age of three and was bored outta my mind when I got to kindergarten, so much so that the teacher had to frequently discipline me when I got bored in class because I would act up and cause trouble. 
      
      You have a right to your opinion, however I strongly disagree with your statement and what I contend to be the inherently noninformed nature of it.

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   wychicposted 16 years ago

   Done! I've published a more detailed story of my experiences as a homeschooled student...I'm pretty new here, is it permissible to post links in the forums? I'll leave the link out for now just in case it's not allowed, but it's pretty easy to find the right one amongst all four of my hubs

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      belief713posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      LOL - I'm not sure if we're allowed to, but I don't do it. If someone is interested and you mention the topic, they'll find it (like me). Thanks for your info. I could probably learn some from you. Looks like we have a few things in common regarding education and homeschool socialization issues.

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      WeddingConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      If it's done in good taste, there's nothing wrong with posting a link to your hub!  It's certainly on topic!
      
      I was homeschooled for one year only.  During that year I was able to get a year ahead in both math and English!  It was rewarding academically, but it's hard to develop socially.  I think it's all what you (and your parents/tutors/family) make it!  If they sign you up for other activities, such as soccer, karate, etc. you'll be better off.  If I had done it for years more, I think I would have had a hard time socially in the long term.

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   Qtpies7posted 16 years ago

   I homeschooled my older kids for many years and they were very social. They loved being around people. But the GOOD thing about the homeschooled social child is that they are social with anyone and not put into a box that they can only relate or be friends with people in their own age group. They loved going to retirement homes and playing Bingo with the residents. They loved playing with friends' younger children. They enjoyed being with Grandparents and aunts and uncles, cousins of all ages. It was great!
   And when they switched to public school? There was a little culture shock with kids who are unbelievably messed up, but they jumped right into sports, activities, classes, etc. Not a single problem.
   Then I have kids who were mostly public schooled who were just mortified with things and are much less socially adept. They begged me to take them home, away from the crazy.
   It really depends on the parents, the child's personality, and the schools/community. Noone has the same experience. However, statistically, homeschooled children rate well about others in social aspects. But if you want to compare in the social events that most teens are involved in: sex, drugs, drinking, tattooing and piercing, disrespectful and defiant attitudes, etc.... I'll take my "unsocialized" kids any day, thanks!
   
   My parents were VERY against us homeschooling for the socialization reasons. Within a couple of years they were threatening my siblings with sending their kids to me for manners.

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      belief713posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I have to agree with you there!

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      wychicposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Hehe....that makes me think back to my ag teacher in high school; at the first parent-teacher conference he told my mom "She was homeschooled, wasn't she? She's too polite to have been public schooled the whole time."

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      saraliseposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      These were some of the main reasons my parents decided to homeschool my siblings and me; they didn't want us to be bombarded with the negative social influences you listed. I've heard some people say that it's necessary to send kids to public school so they learn how to stand up for themselves, make their own choices not to take drugs, deal with peer pressure and all the other negatives they'll encounter. However, while some kids may be strong enough to do this, many aren't--as is evident from all the teen pregnancies, druggies, high school dropouts, etc. I believe that if your kids are brought up well-grounded with strong moral and values system while they're young, then they'll have the fortitude to withstand all the powerful, negative forces they'll encounter when they're older. I think one key concept with homeschooling and socialization issues is to distunguish between "protected" and "isolated."

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    jaymzposted 16 years ago

    I probably would have killed my mother if she homeschooled me. We don't get along on a regular basis, much less her teaching me something. Nope. Wouldn't have worked. Plus, she tried homeschooling my siblings, because she felt that pulic school didn't allow for enough or any religion. They were all behind in every subject.
    
    But, if homeschooled properly, there are tons of activities, groups, and outings for homeschool kids. So that they DO get the interaction that they need to grow socially. The disadvantage of homeschooling, in a social term, has been reviewed and discussed among many higher ups. They have added so much to the curriculum so that shy, reserved kids get the most that they can.
    
    It's up to the parent, to involve their kids in these homeschooling activities and groups. My mother didn't, and it has made my 13 year old brother and 3 year old brother so awkward around other people, even family members because they only saw church and home. Now, they're all in public school or daycare because my grandparents refused to pay anymore since she wasn't teaching them right.

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    drazhardaudposted 16 years ago

    for me home schooling is suitable for adult.Like myself. I like to stay at home. Its freedom. more peaceful.anyway you've got the inner strongly focus and concentration on what you want to achieve..at home....

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    MaxPowersposted 16 years ago

    I'm currently being homeschooled. It's better than traditional public schools in my opinion. (I've been to both)

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    kerrygposted 16 years ago

    I was homeschooled from 6th -12th grade and absolutely loved it. It was perfect for me.
    
    I'm not the poster child for homeschool socialization, as I'm naturally shy and inclined to be a loner, but I personally had more friends as a homeschooler than I did in public schools. Six year old nerds are not popular and if the experience of many of my fellow English/history/theater nerd friends from college and the extracurricular activities (ballet, dressage, theater, daycamps, and community college classes starting at 15, to name a few) I took part in as a homeschooler is any basis to judge, I would have either given in and pretended to be a bimbo airhead or continued to be mostly ostracized, if I'd remained in public school. (Hopefully the latter!)
    
    Did I know some seriously undersocialized homeschoolers? Yes.  But the majority of homeschool families go out of their way to create opportunities for social interaction and I don't think I'd be alone in saying that I felt in some regards BETTER socialized than some of my public schooled peers when I got to college, because I was used to interacting with a wide range of ages - both older and younger - as equals.

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    Ronald Daniarposted 16 years ago

    I am not sure whether universities accept homeschooled children, not here in my country. The matter with homeschooling is not only socialization but also teamworking.

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    topstuffposted 16 years ago

    I attended a shool regularly and never homeschooled.Homeschooling is not a good choice without some major problem.A child develops really among the other children and a good home training is enough for him to choose a good company of friends.

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    Hope Wilbanksposted 16 years ago

    My best friend was homeschooled. She is friendly and outgoing, not at all shy or introverted. I think a lot of people place stereotypes on homeschooled kids. I have seen some homeschooled children that are terribly shy and have trouble in social settings. But I believe it's because the parents didn't do enough to socialize them with other kids when they were young. That's important.

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    beth plumleyposted 16 years ago

    I have two kids in high school, one home-schooled and one not. My home schooled son enrolled in an online high school where he had "real" teachers and an accredited, college-prep curriculum but he fit his schoolwork in around things that mattered more to him like computers and his job. My daughter loves everything about "regular" school, but we did have to find the one that suited her best (far away, expensive and fantastic.)  My message is to LISTEN to your children and figure out what suits them best.

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    BIG Mikeposted 16 years ago

    Although not homeschooled myself, I knew two children quite well who were. I worked with their father and we frequently socialized together, especially with our families.
    
    My initial impression was that both children were extremely bright, ambitious and perhaps a tad over achieving in terms of schoolwork and related activities. Socially, I think it was obvious that they lacked the ability to blend in with other kids their age (non-home schooled children).
    
    They had a close knit group of home schooled students in their "Circle" of friends which I think contributed to the social isolation to some extent. I also sensed a certain elitism from them as they became teenagers, especially with their reluctance to socialize with anyone outside of that circle.
    
    While I do think the parents did a wonderful job of homeschooling them and preparing them for university, I have to say that I also think they did a very poor job of preparing them for life in general. Eventually they will need to interact with a wide variety of people and groups that they were not readied for. They were not allowed very much independence as compared to other children their age and as such I think this holds them back.
    
    At the age of 18, the oldest child, a girl, was in my own estimate, emotionally a 13 year-old. The boy, whom I last saw at the age of sixteen, seemed to be permanently stuck at the emotional level of a 12 year-old, despite his own knowledge and abilites, which were clearly far beyond his age.
    
    In my opinion, these kids were subject too much to the values and ideas of the parents, with no other benchmark to form their own values. I also sensed from others in this "Circle", that all of the parents were very intent on being over-protective and isolating their children from everyone else.
    
    Long-term, I think both kids will eventually mature and adapt, but I think that home schooling them may have created a dam-like effect. By that I mean with so much isolation, I think when these kids do realize their independence as young adults, they're going to literally explode with experimenting and socializing in a way that will create problems at home, if not for them as well.

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Sounds quite similar to the way my parents raised me and my brothers and sisters.
       
       Homeschooling?  Gee whiz we don't need computers and intarnetz and teeveez and drugs and cars lets just live like Little House on the prariez wear flowery skirtz goto churchiz when on sundayz and get beat when we come home!  Lets let our parents control every aspect of our livez and join cultz!!
       
       Gimme a break, homeschooling is for the backward, in my experience the only people who make it alive out of homeschooling are the children who aren't selected for the majority of the assbeatings by the father, or the majority of the psychological domination by the father or mother or both.
       
       Psychological domination in homeschooling happens all the time, in my opinion it is an inevitable result of their being no boundaries between parent and children where the child can have healthy exposure to other kids and other people.
       
       Those nice outgoing people you see coming from homeschool families are the ones who were not getting their ass beat or psychologically whored out and dominated by their mother or father or both.  Their the ones that got treated nicely instead.  Their also the ones that typically bought the isolation rhetoric of "social conformity in the public schools is bad" while ironically gulping down total or near total social conformity in the environments they were raised in.  It is easy to buy that arguement when your not the one getting the backhand everytime you don't.
       
       The ones who do get the worst of the domestic violence are usually labeled black sheep and ostracized due to the "perceived non compliance" that made them the target of their mother and father's paranoia and subsequent attempts at domination in the first place (usualy from a very early age).  These "black sheep" go on to problem filled adult existances and are generally viewed by the family as a whole as expendable people, literally, all the way down to the issue of the person dieing due to inability to survive.  The other's go on to live what on the outside appears to be healthy productive lives but their all rotten tomatoes on the inside suffering from trauma.
       
       How do I know this, you really don't wanna know...
       
       Darwin was sooo right, and in my experience the lower aspects of survival and it's miseries are magnified x10 in the homeschool environment which has the sweet sacharrin of total fealty and obedience, kinda like the sweet sacharin honeybees make in a Hive....
       
       There is something innately dark and malicious about the homeschool envrionment I grew up in, it truly was evil.  It is a good place for the parents to project their inadequacies onto their children and like cowards get away with hurting the defenseless over and over and over again till they are rendered totally and utterly helpless....

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          kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Erm, just because you had an unhappy homeschool experience is no reason to project your misery and daddy issues on the rest of us. I loved homeschooling, and was very definitely neither beaten nor "psychologically dominated" by my parents. Nor were either of my siblings, and based on my experience (which was, incidentally, in a state and at a time when religious reasons were the only accepted excuse for homeschooling) we were hardly an exception to the rule. Yes, I saw children being, in my opinion, "psychologically dominated" and brainwashed into a fundamentalist Christian lifestyle and ideology, but I saw at least as many happy, well-adjusted kids, who went on to successful lives in college and beyond.
          
          Regarding standardized testing, some people are good test takers and some are not. My brother and I both got perfect 800s on the SAT Verbal, my sister got 730. It's pretty obvious to anyone who knows us that she's not any dumber than he or I, so what gives? Yes, standardized tests can be useful measures of progress or native intelligence. They can also suggest there is a problem when there isn't, or cover up problems that ought to be dealt with. If a teacher teaches to the test, she can get her students to perform well on it even with a poor understanding of the material.
          
          If homeschooling teaches you anything, it teaches you that the trappings of conventional education, including tests, are unnecessary and frequently inaccurate measures of what a student is actually learning.

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             Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             Your right, that is all it is, "misery and daddy issues".
             
             Just like soldiers who come home from war and express disdain for the war, all they are doing is "projecting" their "war issues" onto other people.  Or when women get raped all they are doing is projecting their "Men issues" onto other people if they end up with a more feminist perspective.
             
             Yup your right that is all it is
             
             Wrong. 
             
             You are dead wrong, and what you said hurt and was totally spiteful, not that people like you give a flip anyway.  Oh, and you don't give a flip, you really don't so don't act like you do. 
             
             Congratulations, you have come to the conclusion that no one has a legitimate opinion other than those who grew up with nice experiences, you have discovered the wonderful naievete of practicing non compassion and insulting remarks.
             
             P.S.
             
             If you feel that way about the lack of standardized testing then please quote references, for the sake of all here who actually value informed opinions.
             
             Also btw I was not raised in a fundamentalist environment, and as regards what I was raised in, that is for me to know and you to not know.

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    Fancy Thatposted 16 years ago

    I do have experiences with home schooled children. My second cousins are all homeschooled and they are strange kids.. I think not being around other kids that much has really crushed there ability to act normally towards other human beings. I think if they had people judge them more harshly like average peers would, they wouldn't be quite as strange.

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    Akita-jitsuposted 16 years ago

    Wow. Some pretty vicious opinions against homeschooling.
    
    I was homeschooled for 4 years, from age 12 to 16. It was my choice. I hated public school, and I was finding a range of excuses to not attend. I finally convinced my parents to allow me to be homeschooled. This was at a time when there were no homeschooling programs like there are now. My program was directly through the county's superintendent of schools. I was allowed to choose my program to a certain degree, and I went from flunking out of every subject, to starting college at the age of 16. That's right, homeschooling allowed me to learn at me own pace, which was accelerated compared to public school. I graduated with a 3.95 GPA, and entered college at 16 (where I graduate with a 3.98, Summa Cum Laude, from one of the nation's top universities just 3 years later).
    
    Homeschooling allowed me to explore my own interests. It allowed me to learn at my pace, rather than being kept behind to keep pace with other students. I was also allowed to explore subjects that aren't part of public school curriculum. I was more prepared for college than my friends from public school were.
    
    I understand the arguments against homeschooling based on children building socialization skills, but during the 4 years I was homeschooled, I certainly did not lack for socialization or friends. I doubt, had I entered homeschool earlier, that I would have had any fewers opportunities for socialization. Much of the homeschool experience depends on the parents' involvement. Mine were heavily involved. We went to museums, galleries, zoos, theater, and a variety of other places. In fact, my parents, my brother and I travelled around the US for a year and a half. Homeschooling allowed us to do that, and I still graduated early. I was in 4-H, I showed rabbits and horses, I was in a drama club, I took art classes from the local recreation department.
    
    There is no reason why a homeschool child can't be socialized. In fact, I think homeschooling gave me a sense of maturity and independence that was stifled by public school. I came out of my shell...and homeschooling allowed me to do that.
    
    It's not for everyone, and shouldn't be for everyone. But the public school system is not for all children either. It's wrong to disparaged people of their choices. They feel they are doing what is right for their family, and if it's working, why ridicule them? More serial killers have come out the public school system than homeschools. Evil exists everywhere....don't put all homeschoolers in the same category!

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I certainly do not consider my own opinion on homeschooling to be vicious, but my experiences in the setting were.
       
       Should people have a right to homeschool their children?
       
       Imo it really depends on the parent, because after all the child has no say in it for the first few years of it's life anyway as it is forming it's own opinion about reality in a practically spoonfed manner by it's parents.  That is why DSS comes in handy because if parents are unfit to homeschool they will have their children removed.
       
       Usually (this has been my observation), if someone is paranoid or against DSS that is for a reason, and it is not because DSS is bad or corrupt but because that person is doing something seriously screwed up to their children.
       
       But that is my observation, observing how my childhood friend (whose mother was Munchausen Bi-Proxy and thought all her kids were sick even though they were not cuz that is what Munchausen Bi Proxy is) grew up in such a twisted household and later his oldest sister panicked and literally jumped out the window one night out of terror of their mother.
       
       Eventually my childhood best friend's oldest sister contacted DSS, an investigation was performed and all the kids were taken away from her and she was diagnose as having Munchausen Bi Proxy.  Weird too cuz I always remember as a kid thinking how weird it was that my friend and all his brothers and sisters had these weird "illnesses" they talked about like all kinds of allergies to artificial flavoring and everyone of them ahd astham (turned out later only my friend had asthma).
       
       She homeschooled her children practically religiously and her husband was a computer programmer.
       
       There are some instances of homeschooling that I have seen where the parents are somewhat respectful of their children's boundaries, but those were few and far between.
       
       When you live in with people like that (in a home setting) you just can't help it if your parents decide to go "south" as far as isolating you and your siblings and dominating you and or your siblings.
       
       Because of the relative ease with which home schooling parents can sweep the domestic violence under the rug when the authorities come checking up on them, they can practically get away with murder as long as they bury the body and label it a miscarriage on the grave!
       
       I sincerely think homeschooling is really only an experience that is as good as the community in place and the parents doing it, and from where I stand I can think of very few parents who would be qualified to do it, and certainly not the kind that are typically "stereotyped" as homeschooling in our culture.
       
       I certainly do think that your situation came out good, you had parents who were very active and did not attempt to control you.
       
       That is truly a good thing and I am glad it turned out well.
       
       My only point is there are some whose experiences do not turn out so well if the parents are not as committed, open, and kind as yours evidently were.
       
       I tend to estimate that as being the exception to the rule (your kind of experience), but perhaps I am indeed wrong.

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    Mark Bennettposted 16 years ago

    Hey, Zarm, nobody is criticising you here. It sounds like you had a rotten childhood, and nobody is saying you didn't.
    
    Not all homeschooling parents are abusive like yours were, and that's all people are saying.
    
    Yours clearly were, and that sucks.
    
    It wasn't a personal attack on you, so please don't get personal in return, even if you feel angry about it. That will just provoke more angry words from the person you have just hurt.
    
    Be a gentleman, even when provoked.
    
    It would be gentlemanly to apologize to the lady, or at least edit your post to remove the offensive language.

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    Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years ago

    By your definition it would be, and I certainly understand that.
    
    First off "people" are saying different things, I am one of those people who are saying different things so I do not appreciate being singled out, not by "the people" (of which I am one) but by you.
    
    One of the above posters in the first sentence clearly used derogatory and highly insensitive language so your case is hard pressed.
    
    I love the internet and cut and paste, it's like what it would be like to have a tape recorder in real life to catch people in the act.
    
    I will not yield to you, leave it be.
    
    If "nobody is criticising me" then leave it be.  Afterall, "no one is criticising me" right?
    
    It would be wise.
    
    Also as far as provoking "more angry words" rest assured I will not respond to anything that person posts from here on out, I do not start or finish things, but that doesn't mean I will swallow insults in the name of "being a gentleman".  I am not hers or your doormat.
    
    Also only some people were saying it is a good thing, one person shared their experience (like one of the other posters), which was obviously a good one.
    
    If it was a good experience then that is fine, but derogatory spiteful comments (like the one made in one of the above posts by the poster who made the comment), meant to provoke, will get people nowhere with me.
    
    You want proof of that?  Proof will be in the absence of me replying to anything that person says from now on, until such comments are apologized for.
    
    Imo that would be the "lady like" thing to do.  If she were an honorable person she would have never made that comment in the first place. 
    
    I am not the one who in one sentence slighted years of god-knows-what that she went through, and reduced it all down into a one sentence spiteful derogatory comment clearly meant to spite.
    
    We do not live in the middle ages and their is not a code of chivalry that must be followed.
    
    There is more to honor than some dumb idea of chivalry, if you want to be a knight go wage war for bush.
    
    Leave me alone.  Trust me at least when I say this much directly to you, you don't want to push this.
    
    If you want to continue to step on the landmine, be prepared to accept the consequences.
    
    Drop it.

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       kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I'm quaking in my shoes, I'm sure.
       
       But seriously, I do apologize for causing offense. I was offended by your implication that all homeschoolers are abused and "psychologically dominated" and I let the sarcasm come on a little too strong in my reply.
       
       I am sorry you had a bad experience homeschooling, but please don't suggest that because your experience was bad, homeschooling in general is bad. I do agree, even strongly agree, that there are problem parents who abuse the privilege, or allow their children to abuse it, but they are by no means the majority. The quality of public education in this country is dismal, in general, and there are many, many parents who legitimately wish to offer their children the best possible education and whose only feasible option is homeschooling.

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          Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          You really lashed out there but it's like you said "I'm quaking in my shoes. I
          m sure", it's only the internet and its well known that people don't have feelings.  Matter of fact its well known that there are no people on the internet, just words on a screen typed into a computer.
          
          Apology accepted, no harm was meant.
          
          I do have a hard time taking you seriously though (rollseyes) pardon me for saying this but you really don't strike me as a sincere person, writing one sentence that is sarcastic and following it up with another that is supposed to be a sincere apology. 
          
          Let us agree to disagree.

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             kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             But I very specifically did not say that, even in my original post. I know there are problems in some homeschool families, and I personally think there are problems in some families whose members (including the children) wouldn't necessarily agree with my estimation. It breaks my heart that this is the case, that something that was so good and healthy for me can be so abused by others, but I also don't particularly see how most of the children of these families would be so much better off if they attended public school. True cases of physical abuse (of which I was not aware of any within our homeschool support group, and certainly none among my group of friends) excepted, most teachers are not going to be able to do anything about brainwashing and "psychological domination". You could argue that at the very least they'd be exposed to other viewpoints, but in my experience, these people inoculate their kids against heresies like evolution well before most schools ever get around to the subject.
             
             
             
             True, it's certainly not for everyone, and there are many people I wish had never heard of the idea. (Though also many people I wish would consider it more strongly - I've seen so many bright kids wasting away in dumbed-down public school curricula it makes me ill.) It does depend on the parents, but I'd argue it depends on the school just as much. One of my best friends from college attended a really excellent public school and never really understood my enthusiasm for homeschooling until she started teaching in a school (an ELEMENTARY school, no less) where the police routinely have to be called in to break up fights. A couple weeks ago, they actually had to bring in an entire SWAT team. Now obviously very few schools are as appalling as those in the poor neighborhoods of Chicago, but even the comparative mecca of the rural public school I attended was completely unable to provide the enrichment my siblings and I (among others) needed in order to work at the level we were able to. Homeschooling is not the best answer for everyone in this situation, but it's not true that the only reason people choose it is for reasons of control and manipulation either.
             
             ETA: I'm not aware of any serious study either. Anecdotally, most of the former homeschoolers I know loved it, a few disliked the lack of structure, and one thinks it's a joke because her mom basically let her and her brother play video games all day. Of people I don't know, but know of, when I was in high school, a kid in the nearest city to us shot his mother to death, and I think it's safe to say he didn't care for the experience.

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                Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                Where did I say that was the only reason people choose it?
                
                That one other poster in here who talked about it had a fabulous experience and I was quite flabberghasted and impressed at how dedicated his parents truly were, <<and my comments reflected that>>
                
                
                Lousy parents=Lousy homeschooling
                
                Good parents=Good homeschooling
                
                My point is that in a public school there are MORE PEOPLE, and MORE VIEWPOINTS.  Yes you have the bullies and yes you have the rejects, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO STICK UP FOR THEM.
                
                There are MORE people in public school than just your siblings and parents, so if things head south generally speaking you quite possibly could have MORE OPTIONS.
                
                I also speak from experience in that area too as I was in a good quality magnet school from grades 4, 5, 6, and 7.  I really did not fit in and I never studied and was bored out of my mind even though I got honor roll like 3 times and generally made all a's with a b or two.  In that situation even though I did not fit in I stil had a few friends (most of them were from the almost all black non magnet portion of the program as in my experience most of the magnet kids were stuckup and narcissistic).  These friends I would hang out with and talk about anything and everything NOT related to academics and in a way that was NON intellectual.  They were more down to earth and that provided me with the balance I needed at the time and an actual challenge too because I learned to befriend people who were not so heady all the time rather than my magnet school peers who couldnt give a flip about my almost totally absent minded self anyway and rejected me.

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                   kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   Well, there's this for starters:
                   
                   
                   
                   My experience, incidentally, sounds very similar to Akita-jitsu's, except that I went straight from 6th grade through 12th and was too much of a goody-two-shoes to have bad grades in school even though I was bored out of my mind.
                   
                   I've got a lens on Squidoo about my experience, if you're interested, though it's in need of some updating and expansion: http://www.squidoo.com/evergreenschool
                   
                   Regardless, I agree it's time to agree to disagree on this subject. See you around.

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                      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      The words "In my experience" automatically disqualify that statement as being an absolute one.
                      
                      Also the part where I said "Psychological domination in homeschooling happens all the time, in my opinion it is an inevitable result of their being no boundaries between parent and children WHERE THE CHILD CAN HAVE HEALTHY EXPOSURE TO OTHER KIDS AND OTHER PEOPLE."
                      
                      You had healthy exposure to kids and other people, I was talking about a situation where the parents are not only controlling or even just dominating but cultic and in such a situation there is no other outcome.  If you were not in that situation (and obviously you never have been) then it doesn't apply to you.  There are other people who have good experiences.
                      
                      
                      
                      In that quote taken from a post made in regards akita-jitsu's comments on his own homeschooling, I posted something that does not support your contention that I am intellectually contending some absolutist position.
                      
                      You are indeed insisting on putting words in my mouth (not just putting them but insisting on it).  So I do agree, it is time to disagree.
                      
                      Go somewhere else there are other people's mouths to fill and insist on it.
                      
                      Also you will pardon me if I don't join you in revelling in your experiences.
                      
                      Enjoy the gift that has been given to you, is all I can say to you.

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                         kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                         This is, technically, true, but do you see how your words could have given offense to those of us for whom "ass-beatings," etc. were never part of the picture, particularly when combined with accusations (not all of which carried similar disclaimers) of backwardness, naivete, and complicity in our own oppression?

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                            Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                            Still trying to make me say things I did not, I never said 'you guys' 'were complicit in your own oppression'.
                            
                            You adequately pointed out early on this this was my experience, why is my experience offensive to you?
                            
                            Was it because I stated it pessimistically?
                            
                            I am honestly trying to figure out how me trying to share my experience (like everyone else here) constitutes offense of any sort.  What do you think is going to happen when someone who has been messed with shares a painful experience, of course they are going to have bias, but that does not mean that they want to offend.  I mean hell, why can't you just chalk it up to some damned liberal or something?  Surely in this day and age that is a common thing to do.  I can see how my words could have been taken as offensive but I did qualify them (read above post again).
                            
                            Especially given the inherent bias which should be obvious to all the other adults on this board.
                            
                            I thought you said we were going to agree to disagree.
                            
                            Evidently not, but in any case I will not be replying to your manipulative posts from now on.
                            
                            If you cannot see that I have inherent bias and chalk it up to someone whose been hurt severely and did not mean offense then that is your problem at this point.
                            
                            It is called a bad mood and I did not mean offense.  I am not accusing you of anything at this point except not leaving me the hell alone.  That I am accusing you of.
                            
                            Leave me the hell alone.
                            
                            Agree to disagree and drop it.
                            
                            Drop it.
                            
                            DROP IT.

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                               kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                               Among other things, because I am pretty damn liberal myself.
                               
                               I'm just saying that there's a world of difference between saying "I had a terrible experience as a homeschooler and am very concerned that there is not enough state oversight to prevent abuses like mine" and "Those nice outgoing people you see coming from homeschool families are the ones who were not getting their ass beat or psychologically whored out and dominated by their mother or father or both.  Their the ones that got treated nicely instead.  Their also the ones that typically bought the isolation rhetoric of "social conformity in the public schools is bad" while ironically gulping down total or near total social conformity in the environments they were raised in.  It is easy to buy that arguement when your not the one getting the backhand everytime you don't."
                               
                               About as much of a difference, in fact, as there is between saying "Please be careful not to allow your own experiences to color your argument to the point that you imply that all homeschoolers suffer from the same abuse you did" and "Just because you had an unhappy homeschool experience is no reason to project your misery and daddy issues on the rest of us," in fact. For which, mea culpa.
                               
                               If you come in, guns blazing with highly charged language like that, you are going to piss people off, no matter how much semantic backpeddling you try to do when you get called on it, and the sooner you realize it the better.
                               
                               I hope you're able to get some decent therapy or something to work through those issues, because carrying that level of bitterness around with you isn't healthy, and I'm sorry that something that was so good an experience for so many of us landed you (and plenty of others, I'm sure) in need of such help.

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                                  Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                  My emotions have settled and I will speak and finish this.
                                  
                                  It was not "homeschooling's" fault really, my folks got involved with people who were very similar to al qaeda, difference being the level of violence they used on their members and everyone else, (no major terrorist acts so far although I am sure the Feds prolly have a file on the group).  This group was monitored by the French Foreign Legion which had a file on it as a paramilitary group engaged from time to time in terrorist type activities.
                                  
                                  The group my parents are associated with and which I have been away from for some time now has simply not had it's chance.
                                  
                                  Extremism is alive and well in america and the people I knew in the group were quite malicious and angelic about it.
                                  
                                  I am sorry, sometimes I see blood red and I have to let it go, I apologize.
                                  
                                  I certainly do think homeschooling is unhealthy for those who are caught up with bad parents, and that innately any given homeschool situation has some difficult issues that have to be addressed by good pro-active parents in order to work, but homeschooling is not necessarily either good or bad, (although if what you say is true then perhaps most homeschool experiences are good overall in the states). 
                                  
                                  And yes I am getting "help" in a safe-house, one of only two of it's kind in the US that exists specifically as a way to "debrief" from one of these types of entities.
                                  
                                  
                                  It is difficult but perhaps by sharing it there will be less tension.
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  Yes I too have liberal type tendencies, I just want peace, that is all.
                                  
                                  The people I was associated with in the past (through no fault of my own) could accurately be described as Modern Day Templars, both in form and function.
                                  
                                  I truly do wonder what they will do now that Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunication from the Templars, perhaps they will just ressurect it gradually.
                                  
                                  These people were truly evil and very malicious, but for what it's worth I can say trying to reproduce such an experience and the total ecstasy that comes from it is almost impossible outside the microscosm.
                                  
                                  
                                  So you know who or what I am talking about here is a link:
                                  
                                  http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb11.htm
                                  
                                  This was the man who lead the zealots (they still exist) that my folks and entire family were a part of.  I was partially raised with that.
                                  
                                  This is not fundamentalism, this is not Church of Scientology (cultism) this is an out an out terrorist organization with nothing less than the goal of world domination.
                                  
                                  Sometimes I get miffed that is all, and it takes a while for my head to clear.
                                  
                                  
                                  I wish life had not turned out this way, I really do but it has, I am rebuilding starting anew and getting on with things as much as I can possibly. 
                                  
                                  The above link will show you what I was really educated in when not studying academics (which I had to teach myself <<all by myself>> at home).
                                  
                                  I suffer from far more than bitterness, far far more.  I am just glad the red has cleared.
                                  
                                  
                                  I apologize, I just felt so cornered. 
                                  
                                  
                                  Who knows maybe "they" will haul me off to gitmo but at this point I don't care.   The claim of being in such a group itself is so ridiculous most people probably will not take it seriously/believe that happened to me anyway (even though it is quite true).  In any case I am away from the group and getting help for the Complex PTSD and moving on to normal life.
                                  
                                  In the end I just want to say I did not mean anything by it I was not myself at the time and I am genuinely sorry.
                                  
                                  On a lighter note, I suppose this post means I will never be running for politician! (yay!! I got a dirt trail!).
                                  
                                  hahah
                                  
                                  Peace

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    BeatsMeposted 16 years ago

    I think one way or another we are all homeschooled. You can't learn everything in school. All of the time, we only learn a portion of knowledge in school and we explore them on our own.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Zarm,
    
    I think you over react. I totally believe you had a very bad experience in this area. Fortunately, most people don't. In fact, you are the first one from whom I hear about such serious issues with homeschooling, all other homeschooled people I know are pretty happy with their experience...
    
    I definitely see a potential for serious abuse - but most if not all things in our Earthy life can be abused...
    
    As for Kerry giving you a hard time - you was the first to do this I suggest you guys just agree to disagree, since you obviously had very different experience with homeschooling...

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Zarm,
    
    The only way to stop this argument is not posting on this thread any more

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       kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Probably true. It appears we both have a severe case of this: http://xkcd.com/386/
       
       

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          Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I've been there, too
          You'll learn just to let it go after some time

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    Mark Bennettposted 16 years ago

    Zaim,
    
    It seems to me you are doing a sterling job of rebuilding your self and your life.
    
    I salute you.
    
    Mark

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I don't mean to bump a dead thread, I was very very afraid to post here but I will.
       
       Thank you Mark.  I appreciate that.
       
       To kerryg, no offense taken.  To Mark Bennet, same, no offense taken.
       
       My apologies
       
       
       P.S.
       
       Doublethink is ruthless.  Absolutely ruthless.
       
       So is someone who has so much control over you that you cannot feel basic emotions related to physical as well as emotinal causes such as pain, or even intense pain without their permission or the permission of a controller.  The feeling simply does not register, even if someone grips you in a pressure point, (a cop friend of mine tried this on me once just horseplaying around and I just stared at him blankly).

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Zarm,
    
    Why don't you write a hub about your homeschooling experience? Properly crafted hub will help others to see what you went through, and crafting it may help you to let it go You will have all the time you need and no pressure except for your own internal one...

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       You know what, your right Misha, I will.
       
       I will write about my homeschool experience and everything that surrounded it.
       
       Good advice, and you are right I have all the time I need.
       
       Perhaps it is more proper to call my parents' pathetic attempt at homeschooling more one of "buying me the books", and instead focus on what I did and call it self-schooling.
       
       Just got a copy of my GED from the competent state agency that tested me back in '99 and I am looking at the scores:
       
       test1: writing skills  standard score 60  percenteile rank:87
       test2: social studies   standard score 58  percentile rank: 81
       test3: science  standard score: 66  percentile rank: 89
       test4:  interpreting literature and the arts  standard score 62  percentile rank: 90
       test5:  mathematics  standard score:  59  percentile rank:  85
       
       All self taught, so I suppose it is better for me to refer to it as a "homeschool" environment in name only as I mainly taught, tested, and graded myself.  More appropriate would be self schooled as stated.
       
       Not only that but done under extreme duress and largely under the influence of deceptive coercive methods of control, so welp, I guess I have a lot to be proud of.  Or perhaps it was all just what I was supposed to do?  Perhaps like many things in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

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    SweetiePieposted 16 years ago

    I was never homeschooled so it is interesting to read about the experiences of those who were.  Thanks for sharing Zarm.

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       lliekamiaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       hello sweetie pie,
       
       
       where like, me too never been home schooled. where you have a teacher at home  spying on what you are going to do and etc. but i do study at home and try to learn something new on my own, specially now we're living in the world of technology, in just one click, you can explore the world.....
       
       but wait, can anybody tell the advantages and disadvantages of kids who are in public school and a homeschooled one?
       
       i am just curious.
       
       
       can anybody tell me?

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    Uninvited Writerposted 16 years ago

    The consensus seems to be that homeschooling is good as long as the person home schooling is competent enough.
    
    I probably would have done better being homeschooled as I was picked on a lot as a kid and was miserable until I went to College. But, I don't think my parents would have been the best people to home school me as neither of them were academically inclined.

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    rapmanualposted 16 years ago

    I was homeschooled on a internet academy basically just teaching myself without my parents even involved, would you consider internet school a type of home school or more like an independent study.

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       lliekamiaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Hello Rapmanual,
       
       
       Will for me, i do believe that internet can possible be one type of home schooling,
       to the way that you will be studying at home. but often closed its is somewhat independent studying.
       for somewhat home school is being facilitated by someone or someone's looking or controlling on what you are doing.
       
       
       you can wait for the ideas of other. maybe they have more exact idea about it.
       
       liekamia

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    jedgreyposted 16 years ago

    Greetings and salutations
    
    Because I was born into the British influence with regard to my upbringing, I had the benefit of what could be termed a hybrid education i.e. both public and home schooling. My mother was a teacher and taught us kids to read a dictionary while we were still in kindergarten. That gave us a head start that stayed with us all the way through the educational process. So in a way we had the benefit of both home and public schooling. Command of vocabulary is the foundation for a solid and useful education and I believe this a critical survival factor in today's fast changing work environment.

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    Rangerwifeposted 16 years ago

    I was homeschooled for most of high school.  When my mom told people that she planned on homeschooling us, she was told that homeschooled students are often behind and have no social life.  I guess I proved them wrong.  I was in the student government and graduated with honors from both colleges I attended.  I don't claim to be the smartest person, or to have the most friends, but I think in many cases those arguments against homeschooling are not valid.  I'm now starting to homeschool my 2 year old.  She's not even 2 1/2 and already knows all the letters of the alphabet and their sounds.  She can count to 10 and we're working on shapes and colors.  I feel that traditional school often times holds students back.  I'm not going to let that happen to my children.

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    Mr. E-Tutorposted 15 years ago

    I really like the idea of homeschooling, but how does it work legally?  Do you have to bring your kids in to be assessed every so often so the government is satisfied, or is it up to you?  Is there a main source for homeschooling materials, and if so, what is it?  I've known a few kids who were homeschooled - some of them were very awkward and difficult to be around, some were perfectly socially adept and 'normal' people (whatever that means).  It really seems like it's all about how well the parents handle it.  I guess I'm just looking for any basic, logistical info anybody here might have . . .

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    kerrygposted 15 years ago

    Mr. E-Tutor, legal requirements vary from state to state:
    
    http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp
    http://homeschooling.about.com/od/legal … ements.htm
    
    There is no one main source for homeschool materials. Some people used prepackaged curriculum, some create their own, some use a combination of both.
    
    My family, for example, started with a prepackaged correspondence curriculum from Calvert School, a private school in Baltimore that offers homeschool curricula. By the second year,we had stopped bothering with the correspondence aspect, by the third we had switched to a combination of prepackaged curricula (mainly for math) and "unschooling," or interest-directed learning. In high school, we continued that path, but all three of us took a few classes every semester at a local community college starting in 9th or 10th grade, because it was the easiest way to prove to colleges that we could in fact succeed in a traditional environment.
    
    It varies from family to family, but my family realized pretty quickly that once freed from the confines of school, we kids devoured knowledge like chocolate. Mom and Dad were there for guidance and help if we needed it, but we pretty much taught ourselves, with the exception of the (mainly) foreign language and science classes we took at the comm. college, which I feel did benefit from access to a native speaker in the former case and college-level science laboratory in the latter, neither of which we would have had at home.

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    miniplentyposted 15 years ago

    I already wrote a small hub on homeschooling, though it's not very detailed. I started homeschooling towards the end of 6th grade, right after testing week. My brother and I both had exceptionally bad years, it was really the problems I was having that caused us to make the switch, because I had a history of being a great student, and suddenly I was struggling.
    
    I always had problems with organization and time management, but it got a hundred times worse in 6th grade when I had to switch classes and all of that. Plus, I was awfully distracted by puberty and the creeping realization that I was gay. I was feeling like the walls were closing in on me - homeschooling gave me room to breathe.
    
    In our state, all you need to do in order to homeschool is just register with a church school (also called a "cover school" in homeschooling circles) or make your own. Most of these are Christian-oriented schools, some of them are Pagan/Wiccan, and other are secular. You don't necessarily have to be affiliated with the religion to register with these schools. Mostly they're just places that take care of all the documentation the state requires.
    
    I don't consider long-distance learning to be homeschooling. It's really just school over the internet. It's just not the same experience.
    
    The way we homeschool is we pick out curriculum at the beginning of the year, and basically my brother and I teach ourselves, and mom gives us grades. We're actually not allowed to do worse than a C on anything; we have to redo any assignments we don't pass, or do extra assignments to make up for it. We will be receiving high school degrees from an accredited school.
    
    Oh, and yeah, I was pretty socially stunted before I started homeschooling. I think I've actually improved on that point (as well as the organizational and time management problems) since I've started homeschooling. Certainly, I'm much happier in general.

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    allshookupposted 15 years ago

    We are homeschooling our son. He's never gone to 'normal school.' He is in 7th grade now and will not talk about going to a 'normal school.' He has many friends and is active in sports. He is VERY extraverted. We get the same questions as talked about on this thread and in a lot of the homeschooling hubs. I get people who think they are smarter than most and for me to do my son a favor and send him to school. That only shows their ignorance and arrogance in a huge way. Homeschoolers are in high demand in colleges nowdays. And they go on to play in the NFL, MLB, etc. People seem to think homeschooling is a new idea. It's not. Public schooling is new. There have been several successful homeschoolers in the US. Such as Leonardo da Vinci, Claude Monet, Wolfgang Mozart, Stonewall Jackson, Thomas Edison, Orville and Wilbur Wright, John Quincy Adams, William Harrison, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, James Madison, Frankin D Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, George Washington, Woodrow Wilson, Dwight L Moody, George Washington Carver, Albert Einstein, Booker T Washington, Winston Chruchill, Benjamin Franklin, Patrick Henry, William Penn, Hans Christian Anderson, Agatha Christie, CS Lewis, George Bernard Shaw, Mark Twain, Daniel Webster, Clara Barton, Sanda Day O'Conner, Tamara McKinney, Florence Nightingale, Sally Ride, Will Rogers, Albert Schweitzer, Leo Tolstoy, Martha Washington, John Paul Jones and it you want to use some people who you see on TV, Raven Symone (multi-millionaire already), Elijah Wood (Lord of the Rings), Will Smith is homeschooling his and Jada's children, also many other TV and movie stars, singers and athletes homeschool. This is why I find it hard for people to criticize people who homeschool. These people I named are successful and they don't seem to be too introverted. There are many reasons to homeschool. And it's not for everyone. For us, we feel a conviction from God to do it. But, only 30% of homeschoolers do so because of religion/morality. The largest % of people homeschooling is due to school enviornment in their areas. They want to give their children more than public schools can offer. Some because of family work schedules. There are many reasons. For those of you who look down on it, think about how easy it would be for parents to put their kids on a bus and relax all day. That would be the easiest route for the parent. But, homeschooling is the opposite. It takes dedication and a measure of patience that I can't even begin to explain lol. But, it's more than worth it. It takes time and money and much effort to homeschool. It's something the family has to dedicate itself to. It seems those who cirticize it are the ones who know the least about it. So, for those of you who don't fully understand it, please don't criticize it. It's something that has been a huge blessing to our family and every family we know who homeschools. For those of you out there homeschooling now, keep it up! Don't let anyone discourage you!

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       TravelMonkeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       These 'stars' are only taught at home due to their careers, Will smith would not send his child to a public school, it is nonsense.
       
       Everyday skills are learnt at school which cannot be taught at any sport club, people fall in love at school or make the best friends of their life.

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    Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago

    I agree for the most part--
    "There have been several successful homeschoolers in the US. Such as Leonardo da Vinci, Claude Monet, Wolfgang Mozart, ..." (though  these  were not in America).
    I'm very happy that my grandchildren are being homeschooled.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       And almost every single person on that list came from a wealthy family that employed private tutors.
       
       Which is a little different to learning everything from your heavily religious mother who thinks evolution is a lie.
       
       There is homeschooling to provide your child with the best, most comprehensive education available, with no thought to the cost - and then there is homeschooling to ensure your child is indoctrinated into your religious beliefs.
       
       Not the same thing.

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          Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, there are many different kinds. The program my grandchildren are using is not religious, and not outrageously expensive.

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          Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, Mark, and then there are those who home school because they don't want their children indoctrinated by left-wing "let's-celebrate-diversity" and be equal (i.e. equally illiterate) crowd.  The worst thing that ever happened to education in the United States is the public schools; the second worst thing that ever happed was the United Federation of Teachers. 
          
          To give you but one of many examples, up to 75% percent of all the male students in the public high schools in Harlem drop out before graduation.  A similarly situated Catholic school in Harlem, with the very same demographic of students, has a 90% graduation rate.  And you will no doubt say, "well you inquitable Americans don't fund your inner city schools properly, you imperialist racists." To the contrary, my friend.  The United States dumps (and wastes!) tons of money into the worst performing schools only to see them perform even worse because of corrupt self-interested teachers' unions and administrators.  Yes, that public school in Harlem spend THREE TIMES as much per student than the similarly situated Catholic school mentioned above.  And guess what--75% of the students in the Catholic school are NOT EVEN Catholic because the parents would rather put up with few religious studies classes (Heaven forbid we teach kids traditional values!) than subject them to the gang violance, the opportunistic administrators and unqualified union drones that pass for teachers. 
          
          I emphatically encourage parents to home school their children and indoctrinate them in whatever doctrines they please--because if you don't, the union bosses and liberal social engineers will.  Nothing would make me happier than to see the education system privatized and voucherized.  Then, we might actually have a functioning democracy and an informed public rather than a generation of victims and dependents who only know what entitlements are due to them at the end of the month.  As between public and private, private always does it better and the most blatant examples are in the field of education.  Only a disingenuous ideologue would argue otherwise.

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    kerrygposted 15 years ago

    That is a remarkably condescending speech for a guy pushing gambling spam. I'd suspect you were William Bennett, but at least he can write proper English.

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    TravelMonkeyposted 15 years ago

    Home school for me does not provide the social skills which are needed in a young persons journey into the big bad world. Sheltered upbringing should be stopped and children should go to school and interact with other children their age.

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       allshookupposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       My son has interaction with other children. Apparently you don't know that much about the subject or you wouldn't have made that statement. Thus, what I said about those who look down on it making these types of judgments about it.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    
    
    Disingenuous dialogue about describes it. You are forgetting the fact that before there were public schools you had two types of schooling. Home schooling for the rich and no schooling for the poor.
    
    Ah traditional values How we all miss them. Bring back the birch say I
    
    Edit -
    
    Although, I just took a look at the drivel you write in your hubs, and I would have thought any one who writes hubs about
    
    "how to persuade stupid young girls to have pre-marital sex with you by lying to them,"
    
    would be a little less keen on a return to traditional values
    
    I would think you would have already have been horsewhipped by now. A good example of why you should not try and misrepresent yourself in writing. Just stick to lying when you are speaking - much better chance of getting away with it

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       kerrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I know, right? It reminds me of this super-conservative guy i know (unfortunately) on LiveJournal who's always ranting about traditional values, but who watches roughly 90% porn communities. *facepalm*
       
       I loved homeschooling and will continue to defend it forever, but some people need to GTFO my side please.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Oh, I am sure there are a million good reasons to homeschool your children. I just take issue with one reason in particular And I know some of the public schools in the USA leave a lot to be desired.
          
          My issue with homeschooling my own kids would be I don't see how you can give them a rounded high quality education. I mean I am quite bright, but I do not speak Chinese or Russian, or understand quantum physics or higher mathematics, am a lousy carpenter and couldn't build a computer. I would like my kids to learn things I do not know about. I want them to have a better education than me. I don't see how I could give them that myself without paying for private tutors.

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             kerrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             That's certainly a legitimate concern, and some homeschooling families are better at addressing it than others. In my case, well-roundedness was very important to my parents and my siblings and I started attending science and foreign language classes at the local community college when we were 14 or 15. My parents are both science-oriented people (geology and what would probably now be considered biochemistry, respectively), but they simply didn't have the laboratory resources at home that could support the kind of science education they wanted for us.
             
             That said, one of the very best things about homeschooling is that it is NOT a one-size-fits-all education. You have a lot more freedom to explore personal interests in great depth, and because you're not stuck in school eight hours a day, you have a lot more freedom to explore outside opportunities For example, I knew some kids (my sister among them) who did college-level internships (or higher) in their mid-teens, because they had that flexibility.
             
             It's certainly not for everybody, but when it's done well, it's done really well.

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    countrywomenposted 15 years ago

    Nick- Your statement "let's-celebrate-diversity" and be equal (i.e. equally illiterate) crowd" has  racial undertones. I don't know if you are even aware of how these words can be implied by others (since even I am part of that "diversity")

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       Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Obviously your command of the English language is not sufficient to notice that the entire hub is critical of the school SYSTEM, not the students or the racial composition therein.  Rather than policing the polictical correctness of my hubs why do you give a substantive reply to the content of what I actually have to say.

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          countrywomenposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Nick- I agree my command of the English language needs a lot of improvement but didn't expect that it was so "bad" that it was obvious. I know that I should read the whole thread before commenting but when I read these particular lines I felt a little uneasy.  I really have no intention  of "policing" you or anybody else for that matter. Please try to understand that I was only trying to give you the benefit of doubt as such a statement may lead people to have certain perceptions which may not be appropriate. Please excuse me if anything I have said so far has offended you in anyway.

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             Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Best to ignore him, he obviously starts threads just to start arguments.

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    Nickny79posted 15 years ago

    For those earnest homeschoolers out there, please check out my hub on learning Latin. I've suggested a number of good learning materials.  If I see any interest, I would be willing to create hubs on specfic topics on Latin grammar and Roman history and culture.

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       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Great idea, Nick - I would be delighted to contribute too, with a little history, science and geography

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    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    If you write it, they will come... 
    
    I believe you are our resident classicist here.
    
    I think lesson plan hubs would be great and would attract some traffic.  Especially Roman culture--tying it into the elements that kids are viewing and using today.  I.e, my boyfriend's sons didn't know that the theme of 300 was ancient history...  They spend so much time on video games, without realizing all that came from the old hero's journey story, you know?

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    kerrygposted 15 years ago

    As Lita said, if you write it, they will come.
    
    It's not clear to me how familiar with the homeschool market you are, but speaking as an ex-homeschooler who studied Latin at home, I would certainly have been interested in other opinions about curricula, though I was pleased with what I chose. (Artes Latinae: http://www.arteslatinae.com/)
    
    If you're not familiar with the homeschool market, here's a free bit of market research for you. Every homeschool family homeschools differently. The main philosophies include the school-at-home crowd, the unschoolers, the unit studiers, and the classical educators. You probably want to aim for the latter.
    
    http://www.welltrainedmind.com/

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    ToddieMposted 15 years ago

    I was never home-schooled.
    I don't think I would have liked it.
    Maybe a hybrid would be ideal.  I don't know exactly how you would configure it; I just think that all the comments posted about not getting the proper socialization exposure are valid.

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       Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Having home-schooled students participate in team sports would be one avenue for proper socialization.

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          ToddieMposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          that's a great idea.  And while we're at it, how about adding be a part of other "after-school" groups like the chess club, drama club, etc.

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             kerrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Yes, this is exactly what most of us do. Here's an earlier comment I made on the matter: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/2057#post20996
             
             My siblings and I did ballet, horseback riding, art, theater, chess, and soccer, took community college classes starting in 9th or 10th grade to supplement science and foreign language, went to the occasional summer or day camp, attended homeschool support group meetings (the group also organized field trips), and more.
             
             I'm an introvert and always have been, so by some standards I'm undersocialized, but I personally felt better socialized out of school (I went to public school through 5th grade) than in. Outside of school, I had friends. Inside... well, I was a shy nerd. I was friendly with everyone, but I can think of exactly five people in two schools and six years that I considered my friends and only two of those were ever close enough that I wish I'd kept in touch after we moved.
             
             My extremely extroverted sister enjoyed homeschooling less than I did at the time, I think, but still says she wouldn't have traded it for anything. She had about 50 penpals when she was a teenager and is now one of those people who has 600 friends on Facebook and manages to keep up with all of them, plus her real-life friends who don't have accounts yet. *g* It exhausts me just thinking about it!

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    whatever2222posted 15 years ago

    I was not homeschooled, but I homeschooled my children at various times in their career - with great success, altho my youngest is a home-school drop-out. But my oldest son was homeschooled in the second grade - I had to teach him to read - and in the fourth. His fourth grade completion tests at the local public school had three PHS scores. That means post high school - in the 4th grade! Unfortunately, tho he is a great reader ability-wise, he only reads car and truck mags now at age 30. Go figure!

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