Popularity wins prizes on HubPages

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Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago
One of the things that struck me as somewhat unfair when I first came to Hubpages was that the people who won the prizes didn’t necessarily win them because they were well written or well researched or had a lot of traffic. Indeed, when I examined and compared the pieces, I found over and over again, that the person won as a result of popularity. Their piece wasn't particularly anymore worthy of comment than dozens of other pieces. In fact, the only common reason was that the particular hub writer had made friends and influenced people in positions of power.

I have waited nearly two years to say something, and I think it's time now to comment on this.

The method of getting other hubbers to select what is good isn't really effective on the web. That's because a lot of people only read the people whom they like and ignore other authors. They also won't pick someone they don't like even if their work is excellent. How do I know this?

Because through the past few years, I've read some excellent writers on HP and they have never won a single thing or had their writing acknowledged in any way. On the other hand, I've read quite a handful of people who have won various prizes. The one thing they have in common is that they interact with the community a lot and they say nice things to be liked. Um. yes.

To give someone a prize just because they're liked is really much like the old 'elite' tag. It's misleading. There are also other consequences.

As search engines note that a particular piece elevated by the Hubpages award system doesn't particularly retain traffic, those algorithms will begin to ignore articles selected for prizes.

I would suggest that, if HP want to give awards, they focus on a system that accords prizes based on ALL writers on Hubpages and selects the best based on parameters like excellent writing, good traffic, etc. The current system only works for people who work the system.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that everybody who won didn’t write a good hub; it just means that the reason for winning probably had more to do with the fact that they were personally liked and admired than the actual content of what they wrote.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you so unhappy?
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me? Is this an Ad Hominem attack? Shame on you. Get an education and learn to critique the facts that are presented and not the person who gives them. There's a reason there's an idiom about shooting the messenger when one doesn't like the message.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Its clearly a question, not sure what attack you refer to. Answer when you have time.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The question is unrelated to what the post is about. And I'm a political activist and always have been. I write about issues that need writing about. That doesn't mean one is unhappy and it is extremely impertinent of you to even ask that question.
  
  The above post is one that needs writing about, just as the name 'elite' needed writing about. I see you won an accolade. I find it telling that that you don't let anyone see how much traffic you've had or anything else.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  An accolade? Couldn't tell you what that is and I couldn't care less if I have one. As for seeing my info I don't know how to do that and again couldn't care less about it. As for being impertinent...oh well. You seem to be very unhappy and I was just wondering why.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Repairguy - if you click on various profiles, you'll see 'accolades' that reflect the time they've been on the site, or certain levels of activity on various parts of the site. If you check out the FAQ section of the site (available through a drop down menu under your own name), there are explanations of the accolades and how they're given.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate that, but I'm just not interested. Thank you though.
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  kschangposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's a "derail" attempt.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'ts also below the belt, the tactic of a bully, and it lacks class.
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  Millionaire Tipsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Are you talking about contest winners? They were randomly selected from among the hubs that were written that day that followed the contest guidelines.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sophia, I am well liked...I think....how come I hardly win anything? I had one HOTD and have been waiting for another. I have some excellent hubs on Jamaica and other stuff and no more HOTD for me. My review hubs were hardly read much less to have won anything. I did win a random computer selected prize during the plumbing contest last year.....lol
  
  But seriously, if that is what's happening, it need to stop. I also found the bias in terms of voting of hubs and the ratings as well, but I don't have proof so I keep my mouth shut. Hubbers will give their friends hubs a 5 star rating even if the recipe is crap, and a well explained, original recipe with photos and video they rate 3 or less. I have seen this not only my hub but others as well.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa, yes, you've got a bit of what I'm talking about. I have always loathed the system where other writers can rate one. It's highly prejudiced. I think these systems should all be removed, and as suggested above, I think there need to be some exact parameters.
  
  a) Person who gets the most traffic over all
  b) person who gets most traffic for one article.
  c) person who gets the most comments on one article.
  d) person who brings the most referrals in a year
  e) people contribute the most comments (provided they have hubs).
  f) people who write the most articles in a particular niche, etc.
  
  In other words, these are all things that can be measured exactly. Precisely because finding winners on hubpages is such a precarious exercise, I think it's the only system that can work.
  
  If one writes and one doesn't enter competitions, it means any good work one does is ignored. For instance, I found out recently that in order to win the Pulitizer prize, one actually has to enter the competition and pay a fee. Anyone who doesn't enter and/or doesn't have the money to pay the fee, doesn't stand a chance of winning - not because he didn't have a better story. That's the same issue that faces hp. So I think it's important to have an exact set of measurements that can be precisely measured.
  
  Of course, very few of us will ever fall into the above parameters (I know that I won't) but I do think that they are not subjective and they are more fair.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It seems to me that getting the most comments would be a measure of popularity since most comments come from inside HubPages. Some people seem to get hundreds of comments no matter what they write.
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  rmcrayneposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  For me, the greatest compliment is when someone actually joins HP just to comment on my hub. It has happened quite a few times. Each time, it happens, my heart does a dance of joy...
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  tussinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I find it odd that anyone would sign up just to comment on a hub, because you don't have to be logged in to do that. If you log out you'll notice that most hubs allow you to comment anonymously; you just need to fill in a name. (answering or commenting on questions can only be done if you are logged in)
  
  Do your hubs' comment settings disallow comments from non-registered users? If so, you could get more comments by opening up the discussion to people who are not logged in. You can change that setting on a per-hub basis, or globally in your account settings.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, when I clicked on their name, I could see that they had just named, had written no hubs and had put up no photo. It's happened several times and they have never written anything. Perhaps they didn't know that they didn't have to join?
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  Judi Beeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure which prizes you are talking about. I've never voted for anyone in a contest - I understood that the winners were randomly drawn. Am I mistaken?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The daily prizes are random - the weekly winners are picked by staff, and in some competitions by outside experts.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How is that possible? There are millions of articles on HP. There is no way that anyone can read through all that?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How many articles are published daily? A couple of thousand? I guess that HP will narrow down things by using their Hub Hopper results and other algorithms - so they use science - whether it's flawed science is a different matter. Again if Google cannot get it right with a billion dollar budget, what chance have HP!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just made some suggestions above to Cardisa. What do you think?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You make a lot of valid points - however, one of your concerns about the best writers not being awarded will still apply. I know of several excellent writers who write on very niche subjects that don't get that much traffic and aren't on popular subjects - so they will never gain awards. I'll probably end up winning more awards so I'm all for it
  
  I'd prefer to see these great writers highlighted, rather than my 'lucky' hub that got 300,000 views...
  
  As to how we do that - I have no idea. Perhaps if we all started using the hopper properly, the quality writers would start to move towards the top....
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think what I was getting at was that the winners were chosen in an arbitary manner. I used 'best writers' as an example.' What I meant was that I have never been able to figure out what the accolades were for as the articles never struck me as out of the ordinary. So what were the parameters for winning them?
  
  How does one find good writers on HP? I don't know. I've happened on most of them by accident. I do know that some of the people who have drawn a lot of traffic in the past have done so more because they have excellent SEO skills than because they are good writers.
  
  Also, it's a mute point as to whether one is a good writer or not. On the web, it has to do with information. People are looking for information and entertainment. If one can provide that, with the right SEO, then one has the formula for good traffic.
  
  However, back to my point, I would rather see prizes for things that can be measured objectively and where it is stated what the prize was actually won for.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Fair points.
  
  May be time to start writing some 'Best looking Bollywood Actress' hubs!!!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Here's another contest because it's obvious there are some very funny people on HP. Person who gets the most laughs measured by the most people - not the most approvals. Someone will have to write the software...
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Actually you might be on to something there - why not have various emoticons at the bottom of a hub that someone can click on.
  
  This article made me:
  
  etc...
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  viryaboposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I like this suggestion best
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure which accolades the OP refers to, but I agree with Simey that daily prizes are based on drawings (for contests, such as the one in November). As for other awards or accolades, many are based on accomplishments anyone can achieve, such as being on the site for a year, posting interesting comments, engaging others through Q&A.
  
  I 'won' a HubNugget (now called Rising Star) award when I was quite new on the site, so I doubt anyone knew me or considered me popular. Those awards are only for very new members here, so again, it would be difficult to become 'popular' in a short time.
  
  The one type of award I think can be skewed a bit is the 'Hubbie' program, where other members nominate & vote for people. Because there are several FB groups for writers, I can see the potential for a group to agree they'll all vote for certain people for specific awards. I don't know that that's the case, but if so, it's certainly not something the site arranged.
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  2besureposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't usually enter contents, I never win those things, ever! Sophia, don't worry about it. Concentration on producing great articles and making a little money.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I don't enter them either. Too much trouble. I'm was just concerned how winning or losing affected overall traffic. It seems that it doesn't.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't enter them either... I was momentarily worried while researching popularity that the lack of it might affect my hubs. I know that the lack of it affects my marketing ability and it stops - to a degree - from me marketing my books effectively (even though I have been awarded 5 stars for most of my books by readers).
  
  it's a fascinating topic and it promises to be one of my usually very long hubs...
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It'll be an interesting read - I'm hoping you cover twitter and social media - popularity seems very important - and misusing these seems a big no-no! (Ask Donald Trump or in England, the cricketer Kevin Pietersen)!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I'm covering lots of things. I've been thinking about this for months!
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  Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't been involved in recent contests, but I do recall one particularly controversial one - in the days when HubPages staff were far more active here in the forums. When the quality of some of the winning Hubs was challenged - I recall one winner had 10 outgoing links, all to Wikipedia - Jason explained that they had judged Hubs against the Flagship Hub criteria. That requires a Hub to have 1500 words, x number of video capsules, x number of outgoing links, etc. When several people questioned why this was (it wasn't mentioned in the contest rules), Jason replied that it was impossible for staff to read all the Hubs, so they had to use some kind of automated filtering to get the shortlist down to a manageable level. Since automated filters can't judge writing, they had to use structure. The result was that shorter Hubs didn't even get in front of the judges.
  
  It's likely they're still doing something similar. After all, as you say, staff can't possibly read every contest entry so they must do something to cut the list down to a manageable level. Maybe HubberScore plays a part? - HubberScore is partly determined by activity on the site, so that would explain why popularity seems to be a factor.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This simply means that the contests are not structured properly, if that is the case.
  
  From a management point of view, when running such contests, they have to be so organized as to take in every possible entry. If the rules state that minimum 500 words is the criteria then they cannot judge by elimination hubs less than 1200 words.
  
  HP needs to get a panel, similar to the one used for the creative writing contest where hubs have to be read and sorted. Maybe the daily prize should be withdrawn and increase the weekly prize pool. Limit each hubber to a certain amount of entries per week and have a panel sort through the entries to short list them.
  
  I am willing to forgo any contests just to assist with organizing and structure.....not the judging. I am afraid I am not a very good judge.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, and that's why the revelation upset some people. I've never entered a contest since.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And it's because. it's so time consuming that I have suggested an annual or biannaul contest. The other way is to use tangible measures to assess contest winners because one can set up software to eliminate anything that doesn't measure up to those parameters. I also think it's essential, in the interests of transparency, to indicate on the hub exactly why it was given an accolade.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Which is why, Marisa, it would be nice to know why people won contests, i.e. what the exact parameters were for winning.
  
  I once went to a playwright contest in London. They first read the parameters for entering, and then they showed the top 15 they they had selected (plays had to be 10 minutes long.)
  
  Not a single play had the main requirement. When I mentioned this afterwards, the judges told me it didn't matter...
  
  They didn't understand my negative reaction!
  
  The point is why enter if one isn't told all the requirements utilized for judging. It gives people who either accidentally fit those parameteres or have insider knowledge an unfair advantage!
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  sunforgedposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That's a rather fantastic assumption. It would be scary if such a thing was plausible, but it is not.
  
  Thankfully.
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  livewithrichardposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The way she is suggesting it is not possible because SE's do not count traffic, however the inclusion of rich snippets and star ratings can help, not hinder, such content. But of course this isn't the sort of award system she is referring to.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I was asking...
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LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years ago
I was not aware of how HP awarded prizes, accolades etc....assuming that this is the case. But SA makes a great point which is worthy of consideration and implementation if is not so already.
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Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago
I like being liked - it's my craving for attention. But I can't afford the time to do the whole social thing.

I hear what you are saying Sophia and it is a shame for those, as you say, excellent but less pushy writers.

On the other hand, a large element of writing or marketing is about the marketing as much as, if not more than, the writing.

If HP just waded through well meaning prose they would need an army of readers - and lawyers to settle disputes.

It's probably best just to give any awards to the writer with the biggest cupcakes.

Note. This is an example of me marketing rather than writing, which is the same thing, only more boring.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you're definitely one of the writers that needs to win accolades for sheer comedy. You're the funniest guy I ever read! You made me laugh - again.
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SimeyCposted 11 years ago
You haven't presented any facts - you've presented conjecture based on observations, assumptions and suspicions. (Please don’t take this as an attack on you – it’s not!)

The problem with any writing contest is that the judging will always be subjective - in several recent competitions there have been independent professional judges but you could argue that some of their choices were not the best – sadly it’s in the nature of the beast. As an example, I’ve read thousands of science fiction books including the majority of the Nebula Award Winners – in my opinion there are probably 50 or more books that have never won an award that are far better than those that did.

I'm not having a go at you, nor am I defending HP as some will probably accuse me - I'm just trying to work out how it is ever possible to have a fair system that will please all of the members of Hubpages - I doubt anyone can create something like that.

Is there collusion between HP staff and some Hubbers, or favoritism based on their behavior? There is a perception of that, but I do not think there is an intentional favoritism. Of course – that’s only my opinion.

As someone who has won weekly ‘prizes’ and won the Grand Prize in one competition – I certainly hope there wasn’t favoritism towards my winners – I don’t think there was as I feel my winners deserved to win – again that is my personal opinion too.

The only answer and one that will not be popular is for Hubpages to stop competitions all together…
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There wasn't any evidence that the 'elite' label wasn't very popular either. And, yes, you're right, the only way to make it fair is to remove the compeitions all together. That's what should be done. How about once a year, they award the person with the most traffic overall, the person with the most traffic for a particular article, the person whose article generated the most comments. These are all aspects that can be measured scientifically and objectively.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with that is hubs that get very high traffic aren't necessarily that great! I have one hub that gets tons of traffic and it is simply a good informative hub aimed at a teen audience to provide help - it is not superbly designed, not that well laid out and will never win a competition - but according to my stats it is by far my 'best' hub.
  
  I understand your concern and wish there was a true way to highlight quality and to be transparent about the method etc. Sadly I can never see that happening - heck if Google can't get it right with their alogorithms and billions of dollars, what chance does HP have of scientifically picking the top hubs!
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  Novel Treasureposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I have a similar hub too that is aimed at teen traffic. It gets tons of views and comments outside of the hubpages viewers, but I don't think I want an accolade for the hub.
  
  I don't think it is particularly well written, or deserving of a writing award.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  SimeyC, Yes, indeed, I have.
  
  If you donj't think I'm accurate, that's fine. As you didn't atttack me personally, of course, I don't take it as an attack. I'm not that immagure.
  
  Thank you for pointing out some things.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not being pedantic and still not attacking you honest - what facts? You know for certain that HP awards 'prizes' to favorite hubbers?
  
  I guess I can see that the statement about better writers not getting awarded prizes is a fact - still subjective though - what you and I think great writers can mean two different things. That's all I meant...
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I like the contests because they give me ideas, something to write about, something to shoot for. The prizes are secondary. I see no reason not to have contests in order to be fair. That would be too elementary. Life isn't fair. We just do the best we can.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. I like the contest. I think they are a fun way to motivate hubbers to write what they normally might not write about. It also encourages hubbers to use the capsules. Like the ratings capsule for the recipe hub contest and now the ratings capsule for product reviews. It invites hubbers to become involved where they might not otherwise become involved. Personally, I think they do more good than harm.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If you read Simone Smith, a member of staff, she states quite openly that popularity does affect the decision. And by the way, my hub about popularity is now written!
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Len Cannonposted 11 years ago
AWARD WINNERS: CONSIDER YOURSELF ON NOTICE
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  Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  on notice for what?
  
  I've poured myself into creating quality hubs for contests. I even hit a score of 100 in the recipe hub contest in June, and that was as good as a cash prize and honor. :0)
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You did, indeed, put a lot of work into them, and your narrative has a lot of color. The way you've set them out is excellent, and they are very professionally done. You should, indeed, have won prizes.
  
  That said, you can make them better by...
  
  As a professional editor who worked for two British publishers, your writing lacks rhythm. If you google 'Spice of Writing,' my blog, you'll find a section what rhythm is and how to get it into your writing. While it means that I struggle to read your hubs because your writing lacks that rhythm, that is only because I'm a very fast reader. Most people will delight in your colorful phraseology. Normally I would say that if one hasn't got rhythm, one can't learn it. My gutfeel is that you could, and that's why I mention it.
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  Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for taking time to respond to my post, and for your critique of my writing. I'm glad you've enjoyed reading some of what I've written on HP. I'll revisit as many of my hubs as I can with an ear to where I can introduce better rhythm into my narratives. :0) Glad to know that you think I can still learn in it. In the meantime, I'll look forward to reading your blog. :0)
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Rhythm has to do with varying the length of one's sentences. You write all long sentences. Part of developing rhythm in one's writing is having differing lengths of sentences in one's writing. I hope you weren't being sarcastic. I'm an INTJ. When I take take to do that kind of critique, it means I respect very much what you do.
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  Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I was not being sarcastic, because I did realize you took the time to read my hubs.
  
  It may take a long while to fix the rhythm of some of my hubs. There are now almost 100, but I'll do my best. Thanks for the extra tip about varying sentence lengths. :0)
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sophia - perhaps another hub to write? I'd be really interested in an in-depth hub on how to apply rhythm to writing. I used to write a lot of poetry and one of the things I realized with poetry is that rhythm is very important - I've never really thought about it while writing hubs...
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I have a blog which I write called "The Spice of Writing." I only write serious stuff for emerging writers. There are two blogs that would apply. The one is called, "Breaking the Rules When Writing" and the other is called, "Rhythm in Writing or Dead in the Water?"
  
  You can google them by putting in the name of the article, Spice of Writing, and Sophia Angelique or Tessa Schlesinger.
  
  I don't want to have to rewrite what I have already written, and I keep all my articles about writing in one place.
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  Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. That is a good idea for a hub.
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paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago
"Popularity wins prizes on HubPages"

Paradigmsearch is doomed...
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You make me laugh! Everytime I read something you say, I burst out laughing!
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  paradigmsearch is funny. I've been noticing him? her? showing up here and there. :-)
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LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years ago
Just thought to add some humor to lighten the discussion a bit............

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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you made me laugh!
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
I like the little hub feedback counter that appears on our profile page. It shows an interaction from the reader that is not based on mutual comments or entering a competition. I leave the other accolades showing as they indicate how long I have been on the site and hopefully a level of commitment to writing here and elsewhere.

I am not really interested in the competitions, I think in the past they may have led to the site having too many articles on similar topics in a short space of time. I seem to remember, when the poetry competition was on that one or two hubbers read the entries and helped to pick the winners. I cannot remember who or the other ways it was judged.
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Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years ago
Since I won my first HOTD when I had only been here 6 days, I don't think it had anything to do with being popular (I wasn't). I know it didn't have anything to do with traffic, (I had under 200 total views). I think it had to do with an unusual photo and a timely subject, and being lucky to be noticed by the right people at the right time. I think it was largely a matter of luck. I was thrilled to get it at the time, but I really am not concerned whether I ever win another contest or award.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I still remember that HOTD. It was different, and worthy.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mark, nice cupcakes.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. :-)
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brakel2posted 11 years ago
The problem may be insufficient staff to judge many entries. I understand your point, but I don't know a solution. Popularity and politics and money are winners. I feel you can be a winner by loving and sharing your writing. It would be nice to win and get much praise. If it doesn't happen, it's their loss.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The things I suggested can all be written as software. They don't have to do anything.
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I believe the software is already in place.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, well then it's simply a hubpages decisions. I think my reasons are valid.
  
  a) While some of the hubs I read that have won prizes are really, really good, others aren't and I'm left wondering why they were selected. I think it's important that when hubs are given special attributes that they can be recognized by search engines for that.
  
  b) If the parameters are made clear and everybody is included, it's a more fair system.
  
  c) If people's hub are labeled what attribute earned them an accolade, it's easier to see where the excellence is.
  
  I personally don't care what the catagories are. I just think that sooner or later search engines are going to look at. So I think the accolades should measure up to what they have been won for.
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Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years ago
Just adding my 2cents....

It is very tempting to wonder why some hubbers win the cash prizes, rake in the comments, when it is not me. But I am pleased with the accolades that I have earned via Hub Pages and agree that perhaps those accolades would serve me well if indicated in search engines.

I also wonder why they are doing away with the RSS feed? That's been the way that hubbers have been able to collect all of the hubs they have written on a certain subject and give readers a way to read more on that same subject if they wish to via links to those hubs. It is of great value to me, and I am sure many hubbers...and can help lift the traffic of one's hubs. I think that removing the RSS feed can hurt more than help. If it is a purely internal mechanism, then there is no way that the RSS feed will lead to an off-site page. So why not limit the RSS feed to inter-hub referencing instead of doing away with it all together? I do my best to also create links from my work to other hubbers' work via the Hub Karma program. :0)

Somehow, I think this is somewhat related to the contest issue because if we could earn more through our own powers, the randomness of prizes not won would lose its sting.. It takes some of the legitimate control that hubbers have over their HP experience away to take away the RSS feed capsule..

I love writing hubs, but cannot do it as often as HP encourages hubbers to. I put my energies into quality over quantity..so I publish 4 a month instead of 8. I may not be a good candidate for the Apprenticeship program that way, but I need to balance this against home-schooling my daughter, singing in a choir, growing my own food, and contributing to my co-housing community's day-to-day life (as an HOA trustee, and more). There's got to be SOME time for fun....away from the computer. :0)

So...it seems that those who have the support at home to write 8 hubs a month, hop hubs, leave comments, and answer lots of questions on a daily, if not hourly, basis are the ones that win prizes, etc.. That's okay. HP may need to take a back seat in my life until my daughter is older. I am happy with the appreciation I have received from supportive fellow hubbers. I have even earned a whole $50 from the special HP Ads program (vs. from Google AdSense or Amazon)....that averages out to about 50 cents a hub when I finally publish my 100th hub after adding some finishing touches on it...so it is encouraging that I have earned some income from writing here...but my reality is that my income needs to be more than this, so it is much more economically beneficial to me to spend less time on HP and more time doing the things that do earn me a living (doing what I love). I'll be around, and will visit hubs when I can. Best of luck to you all!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "Somehow, I think this is somewhat related to the contest issue because if we could earn more through our own powers, the randomness of prizes not won would lose its sting."
  
  Actually, I'm not so worried about the cash. I'm more worried about the traffic. Firstly, I'm not sure about this but I think that people who have special accolades next to their name may get more traffic, and if G+ thinks that these tags (or whatever one wants to call them) are not worthy, they may downgrade HP even more. I keep checking alexa to see how HP do and, although it's been going up over the past month or so, it's been in a downward spiral with regard to traffic for a long time.
  
  The other reason I bring this up is that I would dearly like to see which hubs get more traffic, examine them, and see how I can learn from them. Of course, that begs the question whether everybody would then use those keywords and write those articles, and I'm not quite sure how to fix that up. Then again, if someone is number 1 on Google, it's not such an easy thing to remove that position, especially if it's been there for years.
  
  Anyway, the reason I would prefer for prizes to be able to be measured by tangible things is that one can duplicate tangible things while duplicating intangible things like the personality of a page is very difficult.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "Quality of writing" isn't a tangible thing though - there is a strong element of subjectivity.
  
  You may well be right about the popularity thing on HP, but if you do suspect that it's a popularity contest here, then surely the best thing is to just ignore the contests altogether and just write whatever and whenever you feel like it. Or go and write on your own blogs/sites.
  
  IF prizes are awarded on the basis of popularity, you will never get HP's management to admit it. ("So we give out prizes to the people we like or who suck up to us in the most outrageously ingratiating manner. Got a problem with that? Well spin on this finger!" Nope. They're never going to say that.)
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  EmpressFelicity, I don't enter competitions, so I can't win.
  
  So let me give you an example of something.
  
  Hubpages came under my radar while I was writing for Asssociated Content. I was looking for another content site. I wanted to see who the good writers were (I hated the quality of writing on AC). I naturally looked the 'elite' writers. Um. yes. Well. I most certainly didn't know it meant that they were just helping others. So I moved on and never came back to HP for another two years. Two years too late to catch teh bubble, but anyway.
  
  When it comes to prizes, do the search engines give preference to people who have accolades next to their name. From what I deduce (and I may be wrong), they do. If these pieces don't measure up to what G+ is looking for, e.g. most people out there just click on them, don't like them, and move on, does that mean that HP falls down on a particular parameters that Google algorithms use? I also have to tell you that I use a headline to catch people's attention so that a topic can be discussed...
  
  I'm not so sure that quality of writing is subjective. If it was, then certain books wouldn't outsell other books. Quality of writing isn't quite the same things as quality of web content, though. Most people who surf the web are looking for information. If the information is good, people will struggle through less-than-lovely writing in order to get the information. They will not do that for a fiction, book though (well, unless your name is Amanda Hocking).
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  EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I would hate for people to know which of my hubs get the most traffic. For obvious reasons.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I know. People will copy. I think I indicated that. Maybe that's why HP doesn't give prizes for tangible things that can be measured... because it's much easier to copy something that is tangible than something that is intangible.,,
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
I greatly doubt that search engines detect accolades at all. At the ost they might detect any extra traffic they might draw. But for the most part I think they have only the significance we choose to give them.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Is there anyway that one can make sure of that? If that is true, then it's neither here nor there. Apart from which hubs perform best in the search engine department, then it isn't relevant.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There really isn't any way to prove it, but if you think how many sites might award an accolade on their websites, it would be very difficult for any Google Algorithm to fairly apply the same rules web-wide - for that reason alone I suspect that Google don't care what accolades we have.
  
  Having said that, indirectly there is potentially a benefit - HOTD, competition winners, Hub Nuggets etc all get extra traffic for a short period of time - while normally this shouldn't change ranking over time, that little boost when the hub is first published could be enough to make it rank highly all the time.
  
  According to Google ranking is based on many factors - quality, time spent on article, 'newness', traffic, incoming links and the number of nice things said about Google in the article - they never mention any sort of 'accolades'...
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose it's not going to get answered if I ask if HP puts a particular tag on some hugs, e.g. prize winning hubs, etc. that will generate more traffic for those hubs?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No one knows - it's possible they get more HP traffic (at least short term)- but there's no way for HP or anyone else (aside from Google) to know whether they get additional search engine traffic....
  
  As an aside - my top 10 or so traffic earners will never win an accolade...
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've been watching this with interest. On Wizzley I'm one of the top writers and I've been trying to figure out if that brings extra traffic. I can't see any but, again, there is no way of measuring these things. yes, I've been in 'get more traffic' drive for the past two weeks, and I suddenly find myself asking so many more questions...
  
  Here are some more.
  
  a) Can content sites promote some content over other through HTML or some sort of programming?
  b) If a content site loses ranking, does it affect the traffic of the good articles writing on them.
  c) What makes a writer get rank? I've noticed that G gives me ranking (even if it's very low writing - which is better than nothing). My higest that I know of is PR3. My lowest is PR1. How did I get that ranking and what makes it go higher, and does it affect traffic? If so, how much?
  d) Does entering competitions have any effect in the long term? So are they worth entering?
  .
  
  etc.
  
  Stupid, but I'm only now beginning to look af ways of improving my traffic. Up to now, I've just let it look after itself. I have noticed that promoting my writing on social networking sites does nothing for it. 98% of my traffic on HP, for instance, comes from search engines.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  a) Internally yes – but any sort of manipulation to try and fool Google can lead to cancellation of an Adsense account or other measures. If you remember recently a major store (Sears) used ‘bad’ SEO to cheat the search engines – they were heavily reprimanded.
  
  b) The jury is out on this one – in theory having sub-domains protects you from other sub-domains losing ranking – however if the whole site is hit then it’s possible that the sub-domains will be hit. Looking at all the forum entries on this subject there doesn’t seem to be any pattern to say either way – some sub-domains have been drastically hit when HP was hit, others were untouched.
  
  c) PR is useful but not as useful as it used to be – what seems to make a difference is your overall total portfolio – I’ve been really brutal with myself and deleted several hundred sub-standard hubs – my feeling is that my overall quality has risen – there’s no tangible way to measure if it made a difference – but I am seeing my best traffic levels for a long time.
  
  d) In terms of Google probably not. However, for me it’s a great exercise in trying to write great hubs and reminds me what I should focus on in all hubs – it’s also a great way to get peer review. While I like money I don’t enter competitions to win prizes (even though I’ve won a few) – I do it to set my own ‘standard’ and then try and strive to keep all my hubs at the same standard.
  
  While I know the AP is also seen as a ‘bad’ place in some eyes, the program also made me realize I had to stop churning out crap and create decent hubs all of the time. I don’t focus on the prize, the perception of the competition or AP but more on what I have got out of it. I have 400+ hubs let on HP – I’ve written 100 or so during and after the AP. Out of all my hubs I’d say that 200 are still sub-standard, 100 are good, 80 are very good and perhaps 20 are excellent. However, I feel I have learnt from the AP and competitions and can now be very critical with myself.
  
  As for improving your traffic – the biggest things I learnt on AP were/are:
  
  -Key words – it’s amazing what difference using decent keywords in titles and sub-titles can make – using Google Adwords or other tools is very important – seeking titles that gain 5000-30000 visits a month and doesn’t have a lot of great articles when searching for that title on Google is key.
  
  -Quality – the AP makes you focus on creating quality articles aimed at the web. This doesn’t mean they are editorially perfect, it means they are formatted well, generally have good grammar etc and are aimed at an audience.
  
  -Sharing – one of the most interesting things I learnt is the use of social networks – simply posting an article to FB won’t work – finding groups, becoming active and then adding links works better.
  
  -Ever green content – creating articles that will be relevant for a long time is one of the best strategies to gaining traffic – I have some articles from the program on a subject that will be around a long time – they will need tweaking over time, but they will constantly bring in 100s of views a month – hopefully for many years.
  
  -Don’t worry – some articles can and will take months to get traffic – as long as you continue to focus on quality articles aimed at the web then over time the ‘ever green’ effect will kick in.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you SimeyC, that was an awesome reply.
  
  I do delete hubs that don't get traffic over a period of time. I've also started moving articles around and trying to make my various contents sites and blogs more niche like. The problem is that I'm not really a niche writer. I write as I get inspiration on a topic.
  
  One thing I have noticed is that if I put a hub that isn't doing well on G+, then even if I don't get any G+ hits, the hub seems to get more traffic immediately afterwards. I don't understand that.
  
  I have no issue with the AP program. I think it's an excellent thing for HP to do, and I'm really, really pleased they are payng people. My hat off to them for that.
  
  I do watch keywords. But I also do something else. Sometimes a phrase that is often used comes to mind and I think I might like to write something about that. Only there is no keyword on that in G keywords - probably because no one will pay for those words. So the phrase will still garner traffic but not necessarily get advertising. I write those hubs because I'm interested in the topic and I think others are too. They do get traffic but I suspect they don't do so well in terms of generating income.
  
  I try to write ever green content but it's difficult for me in some respects because I'm not a consumer type.
  
  Thanks you, you have been very helpful. I can now scratch off a few items off my traffic list, including that winning prizes increases traffic.
  
  You might be right about the sharing/niche thing on G+. I've got nearly 3000 people following me on G+. The niche is liberal politics. As a consequence my Civil War 2012 series of ebooks sold and my Capitalism and YOU blog garnered traffic. Now Google is sending traffic there. My only issue is that I'm tried of politics and I want to start presenting solutions. HP is actually the last place I still raise some issues and I'm about to stop. I'm moving on. For me, no niche lasts long enough for me to make it permanent. That is problematic for me.
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Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years ago
If it makes you feel any better, my highest traffic hub has been virtually ignored by HP and everyone on HP. For a long time that first HOTD had no Google traffic, and still has not much.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sherry, thank you, thank you for answering my question. That is one of the things I wanted to know. I greatly appreciate your being open about that. It was sort of personal and I didn't want to send anyone an email to ask them. Much appreciated that you opened up about that.
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
This may not seem directly linked to this conversation but in a way it is relevant.

They use to be a weekly subject to write about with the topic set by HubPages (I cannot remember the exact name I think it was called something like HubMob).

This seemed to increased the initial traffic to that hub (mostly from other hubbers) in the same way that writing 30 hubs in 30 days did. I always thought the reason was that in those two cases you were allowed to post the URL link for the hubs into the relevant forums. The only other place you could do that was in the hub make over forum where you asked for advice. I wondered if starting off with more visits helped the articles to get off to a good start that continued to have an ongoing effect. From what has been said here maybe that is not how it worked.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think the benefit of these subjects (it continues on the forums) is that they usually on subjects that have a decent amount of traffic and little competition - so HP are encouraging writers to create content that should do well in SERPs.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  2uesday, you may be right about that. I only entered once or twice. I'm not really a competition entering person. However, one of the hubs I wrote, although it wasn't selected and didn't really get a lot of traffic from the search engines is now at the top of google and other search engines for that particular topic (well depending on which keywords the searcher uses.)
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Simone Smithposted 11 years ago
Hey y'all!

I'm not so sure what is meant by "prizes" here, but what I *can* do is explain how different awards and recognitions on HubPages are determined:

Contest prizes:
*Daily Drawing prizes are random.
*Weekly and final prizes are chosen based on a points-based system built around the judging criteria we share. We award points to Hubs based on the presence of elements of the things we outline in the judging criteria; those with the most points in. Popularity is not factored into this process.

Rising Star prizes:
*Topics are selected based on the number of Hubs published by new Hubbers recently (Topics with more new Hubs are more commonly selected)
*I personally review the nominees in each Topic and choose the ones that are the most genuine, in-depth, and useful to readers. That choice is not influenced by the popularity of the Hubber.
*Popularity definitely factors into who wins (or rather, how much nominees ask their friends and family members to vote for them), but just being nominated is a big deal, and the nomination process is certainly not popularity-based.

Hubs of the Day:
*To find Hubs of the Day, we look at highly rated (by the QAP) Hubs, which are often rated by people who aren't even on HubPages.
*I will also draw from suggestions Hubbers send to me (that meet the criteria for Hub of the Day) and Hubs I randomly come across, so in this case, popularity *can* influence the choice, but I make an effort to find Hubs by lesser-known Hubbers and not repeatedly award the same Hubber.

Accolades:
*These are mostly determined by algorithms; some have to do with traffic (i.e. popularity), but I think it's worth rewarding people who are good at engaging with the community and writing Hubs that draw attention.

Hubbie Awards
*This is clearly a popularity contest- I won't argue with you there! That said, isn't it fun to have these sometimes?

Recommended Hubs in the Newsletter
*Those are recommended by an algorithm which does factor in popularity, but edited by me (to ensure high quality Hubs are featured). I make a point of featuring great Hubs by relatively unknown Hubbers.

Hope that helps.

Let me know if I'm missing anything!
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  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ranking of hubs on the Topic Pages - How Determined?
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  Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  By algorithm, so I don't know all of the factors that go into that.
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  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Could you please ask someone else to reply as I am keen to get the details.
  Its obviously important to getting traffic, particularly when the latest, hot, best are now gone. It appears to be strongly influenced by number of comments, likes, etc. (i.e. popularity). Certain individuals seems to dominate.
  Thanks,
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Simone for confirming that popularity does. indeed, play a part. I rather suspected that. It was the only conclusion I came to after watching this for nearly two years.
  
  With regard to the accolades and newsletters, when you are talking about Algorithms, are you talking about search engine algorithms or HP algorithms? This is the most important question here.
  
  So the following factors would disqualify one from ever winning anything...
  
  a) Being an introvert and not wanting to be part of the community, even if one was an excellent writer, got great traffic, etc.?
  b) Having unpopular points of view, being rude, or not being in the in crowd, etc?
  
  Just asking.
  
  Glad you answered. I was rather hoping someone from HP would.
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  Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  With regard to algorithms, I'm talking about HubPages algorithms.
  
  I would not say that being introverted would hurt one's odds of being highlighted on HubPages, because the single most important factor that influences one's success on our site is the quality of one's Hubs.
  
  Being rude doesn't seem to stop people from seeing success on the site, nor does having controversial points of view. Not being in the crowd doesn't matter so long as one is prolific and creates good content.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Simone, nice to know. As per my other response to you, you just spoilt what my next hub was going to be about - popularity! You caught on to what I was getting at!
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derek gulbransonposted 11 years ago
Lively discussion.

If people put in a lot of effort to promote their work, in fact that helps everyone in the contest by bringing in additional traffic and raising awareness.

On some level this problem seems intrinsic to the concept of a popular vote. You can't have a popular vote without it ending up a popularity contest, that's just human nature. So popular vote is not a good way to make educated, rational decisions (which is why we opted for a representative democracy instead of mob rule).

We use other mechanisms for identifying good quality content (see our Quality Assessment Process, http://blog.hubpages.com/2012/11/qualit … t-process/). I'm not sure we could use that for a contest though because it would incentivize people attempt to game it.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
I think entering contests helps writers focus on quality and they can also increase traffic. It helps if you know the topic well and have a genuine interest in the topic.
I know that when I was part of the judging panel for the Patron of the Arts contest, we had to judge based on specific criteria, popularity did not play a part.
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Victoria Lynnposted 11 years ago
I don't think there's much rhyme or reason as to who gets HOTD. I guess they just find one they like. I see lots of newbies getting them. I finally got selected after about 14 months on HP.
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  Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  We look at Hubs that have been getting very high ratings through the QAP, and also draw from other Hubs we come across, but Hubs that are simply seen to be of high quality (as judged through external raters) are certainly the biggest single source.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Simone. What is QAP? I probably should know that. Sorry if that's a dumb question. Somebody had to ask. :-)
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  prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think she means the Quality Assessment Process
  
  http://hubpages.com/faq/#quality-assessment
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, prettydarkhorse! That's very useful info. I think I've seen it before, but I had forgotten. :-)
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  prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are welcome! :-)
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Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years ago
Just wanted to post that I have enjoyed reading all of the posted answers to Sophia's question.

Thank you for adding your perspective, Simone!

I don't know how popular I am on Hub Pages, but I think that my performance is stable at a fairly high standard of quality writing and layout. I've entered contests because they have been inspiring, and usually challenge me..and are fun...have even included more videos, too, with my daughter's cooperation. :0) I think that since my first 30 hub challenge, I have only missed the one about plumbing.. I will continue to enter the ones that spark interest in me, and capture my imagination. :0)

Overall, it's been a pleasure to be part of this writer's community, and the opportunity for creative expression has been a tremendous delight for me. More recently, I've seen traffic for some hubs rise, but no comments have come with that. Makes me happy to know that certain hubs are on the rise,but miss the chances for friendly interactions with my fellow hubbers.

My next step is to finish a couple of hubs I have started...and to look more often on the weekly topic inspiration page for ideas.

So...I hope all of you enjoy the holiday season...no matter which holiday you celebrate. :0) May 2013 bring you all good health, happiness, and increases in hub traffic!
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  Seafarer Mamaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Also...it warms my heart to see those "H"es by some of my hubs that have been featured for some reason or other. Thought I don't think any of my hubs have made the "HOTD" status...but that's okay...there's lots of us out here to choose from, and I may not be as active or "visible" as other hubbers...but know that my work has been featured here, and the appreciation that carries, has been very encouraging. :0)
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Page1 SEO tacticsposted 11 years ago
From my experience with the first account I started on HubPages 2 years ago, I can't say that awarding prizes is based solely on the likeability of the hubber as I had just started and had earned a rising star (at that time "hub nugget") with one of my articles, was nominated from 2 articles to receive it, which surprised me as I had not been prominent in the community. I guess I managed to earn it solely on my writing as I am kind of a black sheep.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  congrats! I never did get a hub nugget or rising star. That's nice! I don't know if I'm a black sheep or white sheep, so I'll go with gray. :-)
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brakel2posted 11 years ago
Good discussion. A hubber at one time told me my article deserved to be hub of the day. Even that response is uplifting. I don't need a reward. I just love to write and receive comments on my writing in addition to reading and participating. Thanks Simone for your response..
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That's a great attitude, brakel2! I agree with your sentiments. HP is a great place no matter what.
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Shaddieposted 11 years ago
Everything is a popularity contest, trust me. You could write the most interesting, unique Hubs in the world, but if you don't rub that powerful person the right way, you will never be recognized like those in the "top tier" are.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't agree totally. There are some new people who get recognized with HOTDs--lots of them. There is of course some popularity involved, but I don't think anything is all one way or the other.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, popularity does affect HOTD selection. You see, the content will be popular. If the content wasn't popular, it wouldn't be selected...
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Shaddie, you are absolutely right, and in my warped wisdom, there is a reason I brought it up. Partially, I wanted to see how popularity affected search engine traffic, and the other is something I'm going to be writing/posting about. I find that when I write something that promises to be controversial, nothing like HP forums to get the input!
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  Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  On HubPages, and in nearly all aspects of life, popularity factors in. But ultimately, what I think matters most is the value of one's contribution to the community (in this case, in the form of great Hubs).
  Of course... when one contributes something of value, they tend to become popular! Those who simply do good work also tend to be popular. We would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we did any more to play down popularity!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, Simone, how could you!!!! That's part of what I'm going to be writing about. How popularity is an evolutionary tool to pick out what works best but also how people can become corrupt by compromising themselves in order to attain the power and rewards that come with popularity! Now you've raised the topic and it's not so much fun to write about anymore.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm looking forward to this hub - it could become very ahemmmm popular
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I've been researching it for a while. You have no idea how many things popularity afffects, what makes up popularity and how it can work for or against society. It can be abused as much as it can be incredibly useful. I twigged on to all its implications several months ago and have been doing a lot of research on it.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Write it, Sophia! It sounds interesting. You sure sparked a lot of interest here. We'll all read it! :-)
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I wasn't going to say anything about writing it. Simone Smith rather twigged to how fundamental popularity is to many things. I felt a bit deflated about that but, then again, there are other aspects of popularity that she hasn't mentioned so it's still a go!
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habeeposted 11 years ago
I won first place in a contest here, and it included $1,000 in prize money. I don't think I won because I was popular, as I was fairly new here at the time. That contest was judged by three outside judges - not by the HP staff. My winning hub was VERY long and detailed, and I really poured my heart into it. I also have a family history connection to the subject and am pretty passionate about it. BTW, it was about the Gullah-Geechee culture and cuisine. I haven't won or placed in a contest since, although I've submitted a few entries.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Habee for your contribution. Much appreciated.
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Xenonlitposted 11 years ago
Look. All I care about is the way in which our views are doctored, messed with and suppressed. I write somewhere else now and earned a month's worth of views in a single week.

Business is business and Hub Pages simply does not pay anything or help our articles get views.

Because of that, I don't have time for any contests and won't waste my time.
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  tussinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'd like to know many contest-winning hubs and HOTDs have gone idle. It's a pretty broken system if a hub can win an award after being chosen by a human, and then get the kiss of death from HP's automated idling algorithm. Who wants to bother writing hubs or submitting to contests under those conditions?
  
  If HP's contest seems like a popularity contest lately, it's only because fewer people are participating than before.
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think you may have a point. Contests can generate a lot of hubs because people may want to win $$, but how many of these hubs go idle because they don't take off and find a decent rank in the search engines? I think they're great if the writer has a genuine interest and talent in writing about the topic, but writing just to enter a contest and zipping off daily entries seems kind of futile to me. I think of all of those hundreds of poetry hubs entered in the contest sitting idle now. This is my opinion only, I'm sure others will disagree. I don't want a profile full of hundreds of hubs that never get views.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've had that problem writing on the weekly topic. The only idle hubs I've had were my weekly topic hubs.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The theory is that if you follow the guidelines then regardless of whether you win a prize, the hub should get traffic. It now takes me about 3 or 4 days to write a hub for competitions - when I first entered the contests I was churning out 1 or 2 a day - there's no way that the hubs I churned out would ever get traffic - but the hubs I write now for contests in theory should.
  
  My most successful competition entry gets about 500 hits a month. (It was also a HOTD)
  My other winners get between 50 and 100 hits a month.
  My other HOTD gets 50 to 100 hits a month.
  
  All these were written after I realized I shouldn't churn! From what I understand - any article that gets 50 hits a month is doing well.....
  
  Perhaps if they removed the daily random drawing, people would concentrate on writing one stellar hub rather than five average hubs a day!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, that's interesting. About half mine get over 50 per month.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good point - if they removed the daily random draw and had larger weekly 'quality' prizes, you'd probably get more quality hubs and less average hubs!
  
  OK so I answered the same post twice
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Victoria Lynnposted 11 years ago
Great point, summerberrie! I think the contests are a good thing. But, like rebekahElle says, they should be quality entries. I will say that poetry does not have to set idle. I have over 70 poems, and none of them are idle right now. Why not? Some of them have additional explanation with them. Some just get views for some reason. Plus, I try to put titles that will come up in search engines. If one does go idle, I tweak it, looking at the title, content, format, etc. I think that's promising as a lot of hubbers were worried about their poetry. :-)
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's good to hear that your poetry hubs aren't idle. I know many are. I only have two poetry hubs here and they've never been idle and one receives a decent amount of traffic. The other one goes through phases. The only reason they're here is for a sample of my writing. I would never post all my poetry online.
  
  I'm not sure how the recent contests have gone in terms of quality entries, but I know the poetry contest received A LOT of daily entries, many of which never met the qualifications so they weren't included in the judging. Even with those that were included, many read like they were written very quickly. I think Simey has a very good point about the daily random drawing. Simey, I remember some of your poetry entries. One of them was in my final 10. Beautiful.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you - I ended up deleting them all though - not because they wouldn't get traffic but because I wanted to create a dedicated hubpage account for all my 'arty' stuff - I still haven't got around to doing that yet - I hope I can remember where I saved them all!!!
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The one that was in my final 10 was A Poem: Who Is He? I loved it. One of the most incredible experiences I've had here was reading the poetry entries. There are some beautiful souls writing on HP.
  I hope you remember where your poems are also!!
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Victoria Lynnposted 11 years ago
All good point, SimeyC!
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Kangaroo_Jaseposted 11 years ago
Bugger the awards and accolades, that doesn't give me traffic. Whilst it's nice to have plaques and shiny badges, I can only speak for myself but its not the requirement for being here.

If I get some award along the way, I will say thankyou and do what I do day in and day out. My readers are my personal reward. The hundreds of thousands of readers whom come to read my hubs and some who even come back to read something else of mine.

Whilst awards and contests are great for some. Hubbers internally reading my work doesn't give me traffic.
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Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago
I've written the hub on popularity if anyone wants to read it...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I read it....but I'm having oodles of trouble trying to comment on it.
  
  So, I'll comment here. The hub is spot on. I learned long ago that pursuit of popularity meant a compromise of the values and beliefs that I held dear. I decided that I would rather be true to myself and honest about who I am than to pursue the perks of being popular. I think those who love me appreciate that. Those who don't are folks I'd rather not befriend.
  
  I like honesty, even when it's a little uncomfortable.
  
  Well said.
  
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Motown. I think it's a choice that is made. Most make it without even thinking about it. I'm glad you have chosen a way that too few of us choose...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're absolutely right that the choice is often made without a lot of thought. It never occurred to me to try to be popular in any area of my life. To try to be good, absolutely. To try to be kind, yes. To try to be the kind of person that others respect, certainly. But I could give a flying fig if anyone 'likes' me.
  
  I know that if I like someone, I often want them to like me back. I am human, after all. But, in the end, I'd rather have their respect. That's a far more valuable gift.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. It never occurred to me (until the last few years) that popularity was actually admired. I grew up in an environment where we did the right thing, regardless of whether it would win us friends or cost our head...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Me too. Well, without the possibility of losing our heads, of course. I'm grateful to have grown up where and when I did. My American childhood was quite a safe one.
  
  That said, my mother was a woman of intelligence and integrity. I have sought that out in every friend during my adult life. My few friends are that way, and my husband possesses both qualities in HUGE quantities.
  
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree... Popularity also breeds group think - something which frightens me more than I can say.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I read Sophia's hub. Well said. Lots of great points! :-)
  
  Yeah, the group think thing is very dangerous . . . .
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TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years ago
I really don't see the point of all this. For the most part, winning contests on HP doesn't put money in your pocket and neither does getting accolades. I won Hub Nuggets awards three times during my first three months here which felt great, but didn't earn me one red cent.

I was too new to know anybody, and had few followers, and I don't do social networking...so, what's the big deal?

I think HP runs contests to keep the juices flowing and allow people to have a little fun, but I do agree that sometimes this type of thing causes more problems than it fixes, so maybe they should just stop doing contests?

As for accolades, I've got plenty...but they are so mundane that I don't think anybody even notices them but me. I like having those little crests under my name because I think it gives me a bit of credibility...but still no extra dough.

Hey, it's the holiday season folks. Lighten up a bit, relax, take a hot bath or something. If you want to be a political activist, go after elder abuse, or helping the homeless...in the bigger pictures, worrying about contests is kind of a waste of time, dontcha' think?
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Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years ago
Only prize I give a damn about around here is that 28th day of the month's payout.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I concur
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  Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's either that people write because they love to write, or because they think it's a good way to pick up some extra money, or a combination of both. I put a lot of work into all my hubs, and after 2 years, was never recognized for anything. But I didn't interact on the forums, and I believe that counts a lot on here. I go on them more now, but mostly because the rules change so much and I don't spend much time here anymore. It is really hurting our hubs to have them in idle status for a few days once we hit publish. I just noticed that I was making it worse for myself by going in and editing them more, it adds another 24 hours of idle time. So try to leave them alone once you publish! I did enter contests, and wrote hubs that took a lot of reading and research, and lost to people who took pictures of a few flowers or wrote a simplistic poem. So I do believe it's based on who you are. I also don't think recipes belong on a writer's site. I wrote only 5 pieces on Infobarrel, and wasn't even officially accepted there yet, and they had already featured one of my pieces. A friend told me I was getting attention from the administration, that those were the ones who were commenting on my pieces. So it's interesting I get more attention when I go on new sites.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  WIN!
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sunforgedposted 11 years ago
The design of the "Popularity" hub is impeccable. Those quote boxes are quite awesome.

But, popularity, networking, mentions by those of "influence" as measured in an online manner will only increase as a quality factor and a means for increased visibility, traffic, earnings, actual accolades (not HP ones) ... that is not going anywhere.

Its best to use it to your benefit if you recognize its potential.

Doesn't mean you have to allow such trivialities to actually influence you!
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Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago
I may have mentioned this before but I came fourth in two Hub Nugget things. Fourth out of five. It was a cruel blow to my young writing hopes and I suffered terribly in the following years. Surely I was better than that?

Well. I wrote and wrote, and studied hard, and learned about stuff and how to place it on a page. I practiced my writing, never satisfied with what I had done. I became obsessive, moody and introverted.

That fourth place never left my mind, not for a single second. I'll show 'em I said to myself, as by then I was living on my own.

The low spot came when I was picked up by the police for harassing people with my printed pages. "Isn't this any good?" I was shouting at people queueing for Santa's Grotto.

I went into therapy - it was preferable to prison - and learned how to cope. Of course, an acceptance of how bad I was meant my writing suffered. I went backwards for a while, then sideways and finally one day it hit me.

Fourth.

It's better than fifth.

Loser.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And fourth is certainly better than NEVER being nominated for a Hub Nugget. No, I'm not bitter. :-)
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  Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lol. Getting nominated probably does mean an amount of self publicity - hey look at me!
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  :-D
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  Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Mark,
  You are the best artist here on HP!
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  Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh stop it please.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are the new Lowry of the day, on HP that is!
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
+
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  However, it very often, these days, points to appalling work.
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janderson99posted 11 years ago
Interesting when HOTD is 15 months old!
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  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Latest HOTD was published 9 months ago in Feb 2012!
  
  Weird focus on old hubs about old plumbing.
  
  "The Hub of the Day program exists to showcase amazing new Hubs before both the HubPages community and casual site visitors."
  
  Who has leaky or blocked pipes?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I understand what you are saying and agree to an extent - however quite a few HOTD (not just recently) have been several months old - I've never thought it was a bad thing especially if the hubs are top quality.
  
  I guess the problem HP have is that they are highlighting hubs - if there are twenty great hubs in one wee they want to list then how can they all be listed in one week - it's impossible so it creates a back-log - when they have a day or two where there are no stellar hubs then they may go back to some of the older ones.
  
  Perhaps a better way would be to list 'top hubs of the week' weekly and have no limits.....
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  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It makes no sense - it's against their own criteria. There is something else going on. While your hub is great - I don't see how the dirty bathtub, and other pipe 'snake thingo are a good look for the public face of HP at Xmas. Very weird! IMO.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There's always a conspiracy! Maybe the original competition sponsors have shown interest in another contest and want to see some plumbing hubs highlighted; perhaps its simply a coincidence that two plumbing hubs were picked. Who knows. Sadly it was bad timing for me as I was involved in this discussion so it makes it look worse - but if there was a conspiracy surely I would be the last person they picked as they would have seen this discussion!
  
  The other point is that it's always been against their criteria - well before the AP program I saw HOTDs that were months old - so if it is a conspiracy it's been going on for years.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  One of the things that I think happens is that there are various trends on the search engines, and I think HP may adjust to take advantage of those trends. If 'bathtub' is trending, then all articles on HP take advantage of that, and so on. Just an idea.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Great topic. How is it doing?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The hub in question (when taking into account this weeks extra views) gets about 100+ views a month. I'll let you know if this 'accolade' bumps up the average once the internal views have disappeared!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'd be really interest. The thing is it's also a good topic!
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Californialawposted 11 years ago
If you look at Youtube as a winning example- its not quality that matters but ultimately popularity. Who cares if someone is much funnier, a much better makeup artist or a much better cook? What ultimately matters is traffic, whether or not you are worthy

So theyre probably just rewarding the people who are making them the most money
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. In the end, however, one has a corrupt society and no one trusts anyone else... There are long term consequences to unethical behaviour (the greatest good for the greatest number over the longest period of time.)
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  Californialawposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well its not really as serious as corruption and trust...Its merely entertainment. Most people don't find things that are highly intellectual and sophisticated as entertaining. A hub about pop culture will undoubtedly receive more hits than something with real world value.
  
  Look at honey boo boo...no substance but wildly popular.
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  Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I just pulled in $40 for one article on freaking Golden Corral. You are so right. I'm going to write $40 crap and give up on anything else. As for this place, I see a lot of energy going into trying to figure out how one giant disaster after another happens. Whether the disasters are orchestrated by Google or by bad management and IT decisions, the fate of content mills like this one lies in the ability to fool people into staying.
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