People Afraid to Enter the Religious Forums

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  1. Greek One profile image63
    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    I'm affraid to enter Pandoras Box

    smile

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    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      As well you should be. wink

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    2. Ron Montgomery profile image61
      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's 'cause your Greek.

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      1. wyanjen profile image71
        wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy068.gif

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    3. Ron Montgomery profile image61
      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Are you afraid of crowds?

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      1. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        That was so wrong. I'll have you know I've been monogamous for 21 years.

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        1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
          Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          In the Mormon sense?

          Ooops, wrong thread

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          1. Pandoras Box profile image60
            Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No. I don't share. Were it reversed and the women got the multiple husbands, I might be interested.

            Yes, I know that's a double standard, a little hypocritical, and i don't care.

            smile

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  2. the pink umbrella profile image73
    the pink umbrellaposted 14 years ago

    okay the reason why i hesitate going into any type of religeous topic at all, is because i know that if i disagree with someone, itll either be that im going to hell, or that i have no faith, or whatever. Personally, i believe that there is no concrete way for me to know what is real. There are way to many faiths, points of view, gods, just way too many. I feel it would be ego centric of me to say "this is what the truth is, everyone else is wrong" But i know because i say that i will get slammed with "you have to have faith" Well the thing is, i dont understand that because most of the people brought up believing in one thing or another, were taught that belief by there parents. They were unconciously conditioned to believe in what they do. not becaue of any ill intention, but because there parents believe so strongly in whatever it is. My mother never told me her faith. She didnt want to influence me, she wanted me to make up my own mind. We were sent to christian school, catholic school, (which i have to say catholic school taought you about other religeons) I find it horrible when people of other faiths, maybe taboo faiths are considered damned. Anyway, i dont speak to someone who has a strong opinion because we are designed to defend what we believe is true, so i know right away there will be a debate. Besides, isnt faith a personal thing? Didnt god say to pray in your closet? I think we can all do with keeping our faith to ourselves around mixed company.

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    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I respect and agree with your perspective on religious faith. I also agree it is a personal thing. Wouldn't care if they shouted it from the top of every building if they would just stop trying to run the country (USA). Additionally, I believe it leads far too often to fear and hate, which affect our societies in many ways.

      I think it's a good thing that we now can openly discuss it, and help to change the conversation. I would say that there is a nice mix of people here. Plenty of agnostics, atheists, christians, mormons, people who make up their own entirely new gods, etc etc. So that honestly anyone who wanted to participate might get slammed a little, but someone will always have their back.

      But of course, for alot of people there's no interest, and that's fine too. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

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  3. Randy Godwin profile image61
    Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago

    Yeah, as if the believers can all agree on their individual faiths!

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    1. Misha profile image62
      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      LOL I was thinking how to put it better - you did a perfect job smile

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      1. Randy Godwin profile image61
        Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Hey Misha!  Glad to see you back in the forums.  Lately, whenever someones absent for a few days all sorts of gossip abounds!

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    2. profile image0
      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder if all scientists agree on everything scientific. I also wonder if all atheists agree on everything.

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      1. Randy Godwin profile image61
        Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I doubt it Sir Dent.  But scientists tend to prove a false theory wrong eventually, unlike believers, who defend their faith no matter how illogical.

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        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So tell me why you think sceintists can come to agree with one another when you think believers can't.

          You call belief illogical and I call it completely logical and I believe it makes more sense than anything. I can tell you off the bat that I am not a good debater. It doesn't mean I am wrong in my beliefs. It only means I would lose a debate if I got into one.

          So how does one go about figuring out which is right and which is wrong?

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          1. Randy Godwin profile image61
            Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            First you have to decide if God gave us the ability to use reason and logic only to make our lives better and at the same time we have to disregard this same logic and reason in order to believe in him.

            Unless of course, you think Satan is behind our logical reasoning and being able to study our world using science.  Then science is bad and illogical reasoning is good.  Is the world only a few thousand years old like many believers say or is our research and scientific endeavors the work of the Devil.

            Are those with scientific minds predetermined to fail because God gave them logical minds?  This counteracts any semblance of free will it seems.

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            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Let me put it this way.

              Science wants to know how everything works. They study whatever they want to according to their field of science.

              Believers who actually know God, know how things work. it is all by the Word of God. When God created man, God gave him a mind. The mind of man is supposed to be towards God at all times. It is when man went to thinking of things other than God, that caused the "fall" of man.

              God, being just and righteous, made a way for all to know Him. he put His own Word out there for all. It is the choice of each individual to use his mind as God designed it, or to use his mind as he wants.

              What it boils down to is this. Those who really want to know God, will know Him. Those who do not, will not know Him.

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              1. Randy Godwin profile image61
                Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Any adherent of any God can make this claim.  You have no more power of persuasion than those of any other god.  There have been many gods created by man and they all are alike.  They demand you ignore your eyes and common sense in order to placate their own sense of self worth.  Not my kind of god it seems. 

                thou shalt not kill, unless it's infidels

                love one another, unless I tell you to slay them

                use your talents wisely, unless they tell you I am wrong

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                1. earnestshub profile image81
                  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Spot on Randy! The other thing that gods demand is worship. This one should explain to anyone who cares to think, that it is a pile of baloney! smile

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                  1. Randy Godwin profile image61
                    Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    A God so vain he creates his own worshipers!  Pretty sad if you think about it.  Why didn't he just get a dog?

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                2. Pandoras Box profile image60
                  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah some of the ancient gods were really people, rulers, who claimed superpowers and demanded loyalty. They died, and their heirs, or were eventually overthrown, but their legacy lived on.

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              2. Pandoras Box profile image60
                Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Do you see how easy it is to dismiss everybody else.

                Those who don't believe in your religion simply must not want to know god, which is defined by your religion as the source of all goodness and love, neverminding all the people to whom your religion isn't even available.

                Don't you see how that colors your perspective of others? And for what? So that believers can have a (forgive me Mr. Dent for saying this) make believe relationship with a make believe savior who excuses them from the natural responsibility of making the most of this world.

                It is hard for me to accept that you believe you worship a god which you also believe will send my children to a pit of eternal punishment. You do understand my point of view there, don't you?

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                1. profile image0
                  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  It has nothing to do with religion. God is God no matter what religion anyone believes. It is like the elephant in the room full of blind people. Many may call it something different than the others, but it still an elephant.



                  Call it make believe if you want. Makes no difference to me at all. Jesus did not die for the sins of the world so we can abuse the world. He died so that man can actually take responsibility for his own actions. It is called confession of your sins.



                  I know this will offend you but it must be said to make things clear. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. He made a way for all to not go there. You speak as if Goid Hismelf is making you and your children go there, but it is your own self that puts you there.

                  It is like a life line thrown out into the sea to a person who fell overboard. That person has the choice to grab hold or let it go.

                  ________________________________________________________________

                  So many want to blame God for their own faults and actions while others simply say that's just how it is. Still others want to blame Christians for the problems of the world when it is just simply mankind. All are guilty and none are righteous.

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                  1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Well, okay. Clearly you aren't getting my point at all.

                    It's not about any "god". It's about peoples' belief in a "god" concept, generally through some religion or the other, which in fact damage society.

                    It has everything to do with religion because that is where the vast majority of people get their ideas of a "god" from, despite the fact that these religions are all based on nothing more than the superstitions and prejudices of societies that lived thousands of years ago.

                    Your perception of people is colored by these ancient superstitions and prejudices. You give lip service to the word love, yet are content to worship a nonexistant being who you believe sends half of your fellow humans to a hell. 

                    As long as people find their comfort in and take their world view from these ancient superstitions and prejudices, allowing them to perceive others as rejectors of love and goodness, the world will never be at peace.

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                2. h.a.borcich profile image60
                  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this


                  PB, with all due respect - flip it this way -
                  Do you see how easy it is to dismiss everybody else? Those who don't adhere to atheism must not want to think, and thinking like I do is the only way to goodness and love.Don't you see how that colors your perspective of others?
                  It comes off quite insulting that you think I have a "make believe" relationship with my God. You are guilty of what you accuse believers of doing. Can you see it? You do understyand my point of view there, don't you?
                  Holly

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                  1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Well yes and no. I understand that it hurts to be perceived as not wanting to think. However, that really isn't my position, Holly.

                    I may sometimes give that impression when in debate, but I certainly hope not. It's extremely difficult and time consuming to post all the necessary disclaimers with each and every post, but I have stated my position there many times.

                    I was a christian. It took me years of active aggressive questioning to finally wade my way through it all. Had I not had the luxury of time to engage in that pursuit, I'm sure I never would have made it out. Well, I also had a background as an avid reader of both fiction and nonfiction which I also believe was helpful as it gave me a broader knowledge base and better critical thinking skills then your average joe, which is why literacy programs are among my favorite charities.

                    I don't think most believers don't want to think, or are dumb or anything else like that. I think generally speaking they don't have the times, the means, or the inclination to research any of it in a thorough and unbiased manner.

                    I think believers are just good people trying to do what is right. In our society that has always been defined as christianity. In other societies it's some other religion.

                    Their trying to do the right thing and live good. They turn naturally to what their society has always posited as being the way to do that. I don't blame people for that. I'm just trying to help break the chain of dependence on ancient ways of thinking.

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                  2. Jeff Berndt profile image73
                    Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    "There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is not evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know. So why fret about it?"

                    --R.A.Heinlein

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              3. Mark Knowles profile image58
                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                So - are people who know God better than those who do not in some way?

                Are they just and righteous?
                Do they always make the "right" choice?
                Are they in any way shape or form better?

                And which God are we talking about? You said yourself that the Muslim God is not the same as yours.

                Muslims make exactly the same claim as you do.

                They Know God and are Righteous.

                One of you is Wrong.

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                1. Jane@CM profile image61
                  Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I think this is where the problems start.  "So - are people who know God better than those who do not in some way? "  No - some people want to think they are better.  Join a church and you'll find that the back stabbing and cliques are terrible.  There are so many people who claim they "know" God and are not very nice people. 

                  Too many believers take the word "righteous" out of context.

                  While I am a believer, I am by no means "righteous", I'm certainly not better than anyone and I make poor choices all the time (like posting in the religious forum lol)

                  I don't get the whole "we vs. them" attitude.  If only we could just accept each other for who we are, forget about the religious/non religious/political affiliations and move on....smile

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          2. Rod Marsden profile image67
            Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Scientists have what is known as the scientific method. It basically goes like this. Someone comes up with a theory or an idea on how something works. They then propose certain tests to prove their theory or idea. If the tests are successful and the tests are seen by other scientists to be correct then the theory or idea is proven. Data and  back up data is what it is all about. Scientists can get it wrong because they lack enough essential information to get it right. Once upon a time scientists believed that rising bad smells caused disease. On this false belief the great sewage system London enjoys today was constructed. Since then we are able to look through microscopes at what does cause disease. The early scientists mistook cause for effect but they were on the right track. The sewage system created for London in the 19th Century was a great success and spurred other major cities to do likewise.

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            1. Misha profile image62
              Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Actually I am not too sure that this is what CAUSES disease. But no question it is how disease works, once caused smile

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            2. profile image0
              SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this



              Off-topic, but are you saying a theory is not a fact?

              I actually thought they came up with a hypothesis first. So they can see the bacteria, particle, etc. . . that cause diseases. What causes the bacteria particles. etc. . .?

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              1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Misha germs and bacteria cause disease. There are also good and bad bacteria. The good bacteria actually eat the bad bacteria. But none of this was known before we could actually look into a microscope and see the little menaces. There were those that theorized about the existence of these little bacteria creatures. There were Arab men of learning in the  Middle Ages that thought these creatures must exist. Hence in Arab hospitals in the period people with various sicknesses were separated from the healthy and from one another. But in the west we believed up until the microscope in bad smells causing disease.

                Bad smells of course do not cause illness or disease but are a byproduct of the illness or disease. Even so, in the 19th Century when they got it wrong they still managed to come up with the correct solution. the solution? Build a bigger better sewage system. So even coming up with the wrong idea can sometimes lead to the right solution.   



                A theory can be the embryo of a fact in science. The hypothesis is the idea. What if ......came from ........? This is your hypothesis or my idea. Now how to prove if this is correct or incorrect comes next.

                Bad smells are around when people catch fever and die therefore bad smells are responsible for these deaths was the belief that scientists proved to be incorrect when they could see the little horrors and come up with what we know to be true today.

                What causes the bacteria to appear in large enough quantities to be a threat has a lot to do with food and opportunity. Keep things clean and you have less harmful bacteria around.

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                1. profile image0
                  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this



                  What causes germs and bacteria?

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                  1. Randy Godwin profile image61
                    Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    That would have to be Satan, according to your book!

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                  2. livelonger profile image86
                    livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Germs and bacteria. smile

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                  3. Rod Marsden profile image67
                    Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    livelonger is correct to a point but I get the feeling it isn't an answer that will satisfy SirDent. Bacteria latch onto us very soon after we are born. There are bacteria that live off dead skin cells. We shed our skin cells and produce new ones. Very young children are very good at doing this hence you hear some women talk about the fresh smell of a baby's skin.

                    I get a feeling SirDent will take us to which came first the chicken or the egg. Well if we go there we won't find much in the way of an answer unless we leave science and turn to religion.

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                2. Misha profile image62
                  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  That's not exactly what I was talking about Rod. smile

                  There are countless accounts of people exposed to the same level of bacterial - umm - exposure - sorry for that - yet some people get sick while others don't. Obviously there is more to the cause of disease than just bacterial exposure. smile

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                  1. habee profile image92
                    habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    True, Misha! That's why medicine is an art instead of a science.

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                3. Pandoras Box profile image60
                  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Life -of any kind- will thrive given the opportunity.

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                  1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                    Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Of course you are right Pandoras Box. It just amazes me where life can in fact exist.

                    They have found forms of bacteria living in boiling water near living volcanoes.

                    There is an underground river in the USA that never sees the light of day. The fish in this river are blind because their world is totally without light but they live and they thrive.

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          3. Pandoras Box profile image60
            Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I think it's good to realize that most believers also believe their own religion makes the most sense.

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        2. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          that is preposterous Randy, come on man.
          science has proved nothing -correct or incorrect; valid or invalid.
          the notion to even consider it dismisses the claim. science has only explored the premise of 'maybe' with what, discoveries of their own unearthing and relics of potion makers and fire breathers, that only advanced the ritual expression of their time -if anything, validating the notion of the gods and purposes of men...

          faith -in pure form- cannot be equated or sensationalized no matter how much 'roughage' is consumed/expelled.

          as for logic, neither the science or sensation behind either has any validity. both attempt critique, both hypothecate, both defend, both lack even the basic universal nano of logic...

          logic is reserved for philo. Show me philo and i will readily accept your indulgence of the Need To Know...

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          1. Randy Godwin profile image61
            Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Science, with its logic, enables you to sit at home and deny its mere existence while others can see your words all over the world.  This is the power of logic.  Most of the things you utilize in your life has basis using human logic.  The same could be accomplished without any religious influence at all.  What has religion given us?

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            1. Jane Bovary profile image84
              Jane Bovaryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              The thing about science is...it gets results!

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              1. profile image0
                SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                It most certainly does. Chemical warfare and nuclear weapons are two quick results that come to mind.

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                1. Jane Bovary profile image84
                  Jane Bovaryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Good retort! We have to use it wisely...

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          2. Rod Marsden profile image67
            Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Twenty One Days when  I am sick I would rather go to a doctor who practices tried and true medicine than to a medicine man.

            Yes Jane Bovary science does get results and yes Sir dent there are always unpleasant side effects to be had in the gathering of knowledge.

            Using science wisely...not a bad notion.

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      2. yoshi97 profile image56
        yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You bring a valid argument to the table. And you're right ... not all scientists agree on everything. However, when the prize on the plate is one's eternal salvation there can't be any mistakes.

        For example ...

        Let's say one religion states you must believe Jesus was the son of God or you won't go to Heaven

        And then another religion states Jesus was only a prophet and believing he is the son of God is blasphemy.

        Two diverging opinions ... both can't be right. There is a possibility both could be wrong, but zero possibility both can be right as they directly oppose each other.

        So ... which path do you follow? Guess the wrong one and you wind up in a bad place. See what I mean about the endless confusion with religion?

        And to make matters worse, both of these religions would tell you they are right and the other is wrong. And when you ask for proof you are told you just need to believe or that the truth will be revealed through prayer.

        Why should there be any confusion?

        Bill Gates runs Microsoft and has a handbook he hands all employees that outlines his expectations. In none of Microsoft's offices is there any confusion on who runs the business or on what rules one needs to follow. Why can't religion be the same way?

        On the other side of the coin:

        some scientists think we evolved from apes

        Some scientists think we evolved on our own unique family tree

        Now both groups of scientists can't be right, but in the case where either or both are wrong, what harm comes of us for listening to them?

        This is why science can't be thought of in the same reference as religion as there is no eternal damnation in science for believing the wrong theory - unless you are predicting an asteroid strike upon the Earth. smile

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        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          really? then why does the classic claim totality over the romantic?
          though i agree, neither is accurate or honest.

          using your example:

          Jesus or Y`shua or Iesous. The man himself claimed those believing should NOT worship him or his human name, yet 99% of them do. Why?

          This man NEVER SAID unless you have a personal relationship with me, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven...
          What religion -like science states- is there is no answer within the structure of the Ism, so one must supersede those assumed premises -knowing both sides well- and accept Purity...

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          1. yoshi97 profile image56
            yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortunately, your answer states the case I made very eloquently.

            99% (according to your account) say you must worship Jesus. You're saying this is not the case. So ... what if I never met you and only met the other 99%. I could go on believing I should worship Jesus and would never know any different.

            And with the converse ... I could meet only you and assume you must be right that we should not worship Jesus. And then I would find the 99% that believe differently. Should I shift my belief?

            Endless confusion ... all caused by humans who can't confirm an absolute confusion.

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  4. habee profile image92
    habeeposted 14 years ago

    I'd love to have severl husbands! I could keep one home to play with me, have a couple doing yard work or home repairs, and send the rest out to work and make money!

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    1. Misha profile image62
      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      LOL My kind of girl! lol

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    2. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds good to me!

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  5. habee profile image92
    habeeposted 14 years ago

    Yeah, but I don't think hubby would be too keen on the idea. I dunno, though, if he could always be the one to stay home and have fun with me, he might be willing to share! lol

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  6. pooja0908 profile image60
    pooja0908posted 14 years ago

    i am not agree with you. people not afraid but they think that it may be hurt someone's religious feeling if they say something streight forward.

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    1. habee profile image92
      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hard to argue with that!

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    2. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess that's my problem and why everywhere I go people hate me. I was raised to be straight-forward. My dad was saddled with five daughters he could not understand for the life of him. "Cut the crap" and "out with it already" were his two favorite phrases I think.

      Funny thing is I have always seen straight-forwardness as a good thing. But I guess littering my posts with more disclaimers and platitudes might be a good thing.

      Thanks for posting.

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      1. habee profile image92
        habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Why do people hate you?? Me no hate u.

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        1. Pandoras Box profile image60
          Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Didn't mean it seriously. It was something I felt years ago when I started questioning religion. For awhile I was caught in the middle, arguing with everybody, lol. Couldn't believe in the b.s. of christianity after I had learned enough about it, but it took me a long time to give it all up. I kept thinking somebody had the right answers, and unfortunately I am a tiny bit of an intellectual snob. I just kept figuring the christians I was asking just weren't smart enough or informed enough to know the right answers. It was really hard to understand that for centuries people had believed in all that b.s. and it was all just that.

          So I argued and argued and argued. I was literally asked by the preacher at one baptist church to just leave. Well, what he said (after a great big sigh) was something along the lines of maybe the baptist church just wasn't right for me. Then he held his breath, lol, hoping and praying he could dump me off on the methodists without any further argument, rofl.

          In retrospect knowing what I do today it was really funny. Poor guy.

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          1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
            Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            We don't need a reason to hate you, we just do.  get over it

            mad

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            1. Pandoras Box profile image60
              Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              I feel all persecuted. I'm taking my toys and going home.

              tongue

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  7. Pandoras Box profile image60
    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago

    I'd like to add to the discussion of germs and bacteria.

    We see them as bad things, because they have the potential to take us out and we are fully aware of it. If the cows, chicken, fish, pigs, etc that we ourselves feed upon were aware that we'd be taking them out they'd see us as the bad things, as the plague of the earth. Most if not all life forms have predators, and serve as prey, and also are predators feeding upon prey in the form of other life forms.

    Almost nothing that we eat was not a living thing before it came to our plates. We feed off of living things, to sustain our own lives.

    Germs are merely another life form, struggling to survive, and serving as predator and prey. Germs are no more 'bad' or 'evil' or 'unfortunate' than any other life form, including ourselves.

    Maybe it's the earth's way of maintaining balance.

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    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      As for the balance thing you talk about Pandoras Box you just happen to be spot on. This does not mean, however, that we will stop attacking the creatures that want to make a meal out of us in one form or another.

      When I talk about good and bad bacteria what I really mean to do is differentiate between the bacteria that is either harmless or useful to us as opposed to the bacteria that feeds off us in such a way that it makes us ill and can even end our lives.

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      1. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Oh yeah. When I referred to bacteria not being any more bad than any other life form I wasn't referring to what you said, but rather to what perhaps Mr. Dent believed about it. The way he kept begging the question seemed to indicate that he really did think bacteria came from the devil or was a result of sin or something equally ... out there.

        And yeah I kill the little buggers with a vengence. I have no tolerance for any sort of creepy crawlies in my home.

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        1. Rod Marsden profile image67
          Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          killing the little buggers, well, that just makes you one of us..a human being PB.

          Some scientists reckon that gardening is a good way to give your antibodies some exercise.

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          1. Pandoras Box profile image60
            Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            damn. I thought I was a goddess.



            Really? 'xplain, Lucy.

            Does our digging in the dirt expose us and strengthen our immunity, is that it?

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            1. Rod Marsden profile image67
              Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              No quite a goddess.

              Who is Lucy?

              It was an article I read in New Science some years ago. Yes the theory goes that by exposing ourselves to mostly harmless bacteria but the sort not found in the home you are giving your immune system something to wrestle with thus it is strengthened.

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              1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Lucy? I love Lucy, the TV show. Ricky Ricardo and his mischievous wife Lucy who'd have herself ridiculous escapades every episode, prompting Ricky to demand in his spanish (puerto rican?) accent "'xplain, Lucy!"

                An american idiom I guess.

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                1. BDazzler profile image78
                  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Cuban

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                  1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you!

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                  2. livelonger profile image86
                    livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    I thought it was "you got some 'splainin to do, Lucy!" smile

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                2. Rod Marsden profile image67
                  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh now I remember PB.

                  Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz starred in I love Lucky. What I loved most about them is that together they formed Desilu and on the Desilu lot were produced two of my all time favorite shows, THE UNTOUCHABLES (Desi Arnaz introduced the first episode) and the original STAR TREK.

                  I Love Lucy was okay but I hated the show she did with her kids.

                  During the reds under the bed scare Desi was accused of being a red because he was Cuban. He said as Ricky on I Love Lucy that the only thing red about him and his show was Lucy's hair. He loved the USA and had come to it as a poor player in hope of fame and fortune and managed to get both. He had escaped poverty and communism and thought it absurd he should ever be thought of as communist simply because of where he was born.

                  Sounds like you have a lot to say about your dad PB.

                  Mine also wasn't perfect. He found raising four kids hard going and there was times when money was tight. I think he tended to worry too much about that.

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  8. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    PB I was amazed that you said this! I like you, your style, the way you write and the fact that you are forthright. All admirable traits in my book! smile

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    1. wyanjen profile image71
      wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ditto.

      Hey guys, I know it's a little too late being that is just passed midnight here in Detroit...

      But, yesterday was 4-20.
      I just checked in a RedGage and guess what my earnings are? Yep. $4.20.

      Why wasn't I celebrating? Well, I was still at work at 4:20. tongue

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      1. earnestshub profile image81
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Redage? I have been stuck on just over $3 for ages!

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        1. wyanjen profile image71
          wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          lol
          I joined QUITE awhile ago. I didn't even get over $2.00 until last week or so.
          I don't post much there though...

          smile

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  9. Pandoras Box profile image60
    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago

    By the way, no offense intended to you Habee, when I called christianity B.S. I'm not sure if you're a believer or not.

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    1. habee profile image92
      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am a Christian, but I'm not into organized religion. I'm not offended, PB. I believe in tolerance and each person choosing his or her own path. It's not for me to judge if someone wants to believe in God, fairies, leprechauns, or nothing at all. Each to his own!

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    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder why it should make any difference. If you care enough to not mean any offense, and you're worried that some term you might use could cause offense, rephrase the statement. You can be straightforward and polite at the same time, and you're usually pretty good at that.

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  10. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Ron, get this girl some of your cupcakes as way of apology!

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    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't have any cup cakes and habee has been alright in my book all along anyway. She has curiosity on her side. I don't knock people who can think and would like answers.

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  11. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I have only earned a few cents in reality, the rest was a bonus for something. Probably biggest loser or something. I reckon I will just post pics from now on, they seem to get the most attention. smile

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    1. wyanjen profile image71
      wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yep
      Pics do the best. I think folks over there have a short attention span. Reading is hard lol

      I'm kidding. There is some amazing photography there.

      Take it easy, I'm heading to bed.

      Sorry for the hijack PB big_smile

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      1. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I'm the last person you should apologize to for hijacking a thread Jen. I go off-topic all the time. I couldn't stay on one train of thought if I tried! I know, cause I've tried.

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  12. skyfire profile image81
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Really ? In that case you need to teach me astrophysics or even microelectronics. Let's start with semiconductors,don't end this by making conclusion "god did it by doping".  (oops, god approves doping) wink

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  13. Apostle Jack profile image59
    Apostle Jackposted 14 years ago

    If i could not swim...i would stay out of the water too.

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  14. Hokey profile image59
    Hokeyposted 14 years ago

    The only people who know what happens after death are the dead and they aren't telling.

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    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hokey! I missed ya man. Haven't seen you in ages. Or, a couple of weeks anyway. How's Kentucky?

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      1. Hokey profile image59
        Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Kentucky is going well. Got some work playing some clubs. Went to Thunder over Louisville the other night. Best fireworks show in the country. How are you PB?

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        1. Pandoras Box profile image60
          Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Pretty well. Trying to get more focused on writing and learning the ropes of SEO. Discovering that people perceive me as arrogant and.. 40. yikes   Normal stuff.

          On a happier note, spring has sprung, my goldfish -who just hibernated their first winter in the outdoor pond are still alive (yay!). I was sure they were dead. On a less happy note, my pool is full of frogs which my youngest insists we save. roll

          Still, spring has sprung, and like Pandora I feel the satyrs hammering for me to come out and play! smile

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          1. Hokey profile image59
            Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Personally I thought you were 28. HOT!!!!   wink

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            1. Pandoras Box profile image60
              Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Hey guess who's my favorite hubber.. big_smile

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          2. Rod Marsden profile image67
            Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            As far as your youngest is concerned, I am on this person's side. I too have a soft spot for frogs and if you can save them great.

            Cane toads no Australian is fond of because they are very destructive of the environment and don't really belong here.

            Ever hear of frog maps?  Its a way of noting where there is a healthy ecosystem happening and where there is not. If there are frogs in a swampy area or near water or they appear after heavy rain then your ecosystem is doing well. If there should be frogs and there are none around then your ecosystem could be in real trouble. Naturalists map out an area using frogs as a guide.

            Frogs are a real treasure. I especially like big green tree frogs.

            Autumn for me but a mild one so far.

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            1. Pandoras Box profile image60
              Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Oh yeah, we got frogs. A whole symphony of 'em. That's how I know it's spring. And yeah, we'll save them, thanks to her. There's a horse and cow pasture out behind our house with a watering hole which is less than 100 feet from our back fence, so they always get in the pool throughout the season, one or two at a time. Then they get sucked into the skimmer and trapped in the filter basket and that makes it easy to catch them and take back out to the watering hole. But I don't know how these got there under the liner during the winter. Unfortunately we had a pipe crack in the pump this winter during a freeze, which has not yet been fixed, so the pump has been off for a couple of months now. The water is green, making it harder to see them, and they move much faster than I can move the net around under the water.

              They are cute, but they're very hard to catch! We got about six or seven yesterday, and we'll see how many more we can catch today. I think maybe they hatched in the pool, I dunno.

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              1. Jerami profile image59
                Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I used to do  the  fish thing. 
                  It is usually recomended to completely empty the water out of the goldfish pool for a good cleaning. Fish are easy to catch when the pool ia empty. The emulsion at the bottom of the pool is the best fertalizer ya can get.Don't waste it.
                That is why ya clean the pool. that stuff feeds algea.  But save as much of the pool water as ya can to keep the fish in while cleaning the pool.
                also put that water that the fish are kept in back in the pool with the fish.

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                1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah we did that over the weekend. I don't know why but the fish still aren't coming up at all, even for food. I guess the water temp is still a bit too cold.

                  But they're all there. I expected them all to be dead. I know they should have survived, but I hadn't been able to get any to come to the surface, or anywhere near it, so it was a relief to see them.

                  Now I just have to hope the process didn't traumatize them to death! Being awakened from their long winter's nap and rounded up into buckets might not have been a great way to start the year. In fact, if I had really thought they were still living, I probably wouldn't have done it yet but given them more time. But I had stirred the bottom a few times and nothing came up, so i was really sure they were goners.

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              2. Rod Marsden profile image67
                Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Well frogs are cute. Tthey are also an indicator that the environment is A okay.

                Catching them sounds like good exercise and something you can do with your daughter PB.

                I hope the fish continue to survive.

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              3. profile image52
                winsletposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Hello,
                What a nice post i like it most A water filter is installed under the sink. It gets water from under the sink from the cold water line, and heated water is connected to a different countertop faucet. These are popular because the purifiers are not sitting on top of the countertop. By the water filter not being on the top of the counter it does not get in the way or have tubes connecting to the sink faucet.
                Thanks for this sharing.

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        2. donotfear profile image84
          donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this


          Good to see you're alive and kicking, Hokey. You've been missed.

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          1. Hokey profile image59
            Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Just dropping in to say hi.

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            1. donotfear profile image84
              donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this


              Drop in again anytime. Keep on strummin' that guitar!

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              1. Hokey profile image59
                Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Thats where I am going now. Rehearsal. Have a nice day. smile

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  15. Jerami profile image59
    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    When ever the water temp falls below 60 deg. they begin to go into a hybernation state and do not eat. You can actually quick freeze them and they come back to life when thawed.
      The reason that they die in winter is cause they caint breath when the Ice covers the surface long enough for the oxigen to be depleated in the water.
       Don't worry about feeding them till ya see them moving around looking for algae on the sides of the pool.
       An long as there is algae or plants in the pool ya don't have to feed them at all. Just feed them when ya want to look at them. 
      I errored earlier and fixed it  That would be 60 degrees WATER TEMP,when they stop eating. Cause their metabolism slows down too much to eat at that point.

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  16. Rod Marsden profile image67
    Rod Marsdenposted 14 years ago

    Hey PANDORA'S BOX! I think I may have figured out what you wanted to ask me about Egypt...Of course I could be wrong...

    Jean-Champollion, the great French scholar and the man who cracked the code to the Egyptian hieroglyphs wouldn't have stood a chance of doing so even with information from the Rosetta stone if not for the aid of Egyptian Christian monks and their form of writing which is in direct line to the more ancient form of writing. The way the monks wrote could be compared to the hieroglyphs the way we might compare the Saxon form of writing to modern English. Anyway these Egyptian Christians can trace their ancestry back to  Ancient Egypt where modern day Muslim Egyptians can't unless somewhere in their ancestry there was an Egyptian Christian.

    Anyway I ambushed a Muslim a while back by asking how Egyptian Muslims can discriminate against Egyptian Christians when just to look at the pyramids the ancestors of the Christian Egyptians had so much more going for them than their ancestors. I argued that Egyptian Christians should be respected and not discriminated against. I went on to say that not all Muslims in Egypt do discriminate against Egyptian Christians but still it is a practice that should stop if Muslims expect us to look upon them with any real sympathy.

    There have been two documentaries on this discrimination.

    As for the role of Egyptian monks in the cracking of the ancient Egyptian form of tomb writing check out The keys of Egypt by Lesley and Roy Adkins.

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    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      WARNING: Long Post Ahead, Feel Free To Detour

      That wasn't it, but i'll take it! LOL

      Naw, what I've been gathering my facts for lately is either stuff having to do with greek mythology (totally useless, I know) and mormonism. Both have connections with Egypt, or both subjects do, I should say, but knowing the way my mind works and my research goes whatever it was doesn't necessarily have anything to do directly with those connections. And in fact, probably doesn't, because if it did I would have pursued the questions myself to finish my research.

      But don't worry about it. It was just something that struck my curiosity and made me think to myself 'dude, I should ask that australian dude about that'.

      I then apparently promptly forgot whatever it was. lol So it couldn't have been too very important.

      I'm not all that great at gathering facts on this type of stuff anymore. I used to be years ago when I was into the religion pursuit, but now I'm just getting back into all of this. You know, life interferes with one's pursuits, so it's been years since I've really done this sort of thing. But the private school I worked at laid off a bunch of us last year, and I decided to give it all a go, enjoy it while I have the time, and see what I've really got.

      My habit though is just to gather impressions rather than facts, you know, enough to satisfy my own curiosity, and when I started writing about this stuff I realized that I needed facts. Not vague unsupported summaries of my impressions. So I was doing that, but not in the bestest way I am sure.

      Now I'm sorting my way through everything I've gathered, and trying to sort it out, finding half of it doesn't really fit in, interesting though it is, and trying to not write books out of it all, which as you can tell by my posts is difficult.

      The art of conciseness has never been among my strengths.

      Specifically I've been working on Pandora's Box more or less since I signed up here a few months ago. I actually used to write here under another name, about political stuff, but then when my dad passed away last year I kind of just stopped everything for a while.

      When I decided to come back here I decided I didn't want to do politics again, but the greater mysteries of life which really inspire me and interest me. Politics, however worthy a cause, does not inspire so much.

      A couple of hubs I wrote off the cuff I am really not happy with, though they're doing okay -okay being relative of course. I get so off track. Pandora's box itself has turned already into at least four different hubs, with another that only peripherally concerns Pandora, cause I can't cram everything I want to say into one hub and expect people to read the whole derned thing.

      Kinda like most of my posts. Another thing I have to be careful about is flow. These things are tricky for me. Easy enough in simpler subjects, but difficult on other things.

      I'm taking it all waaaaay too seriously, writing and rewriting, and scrapping it and starting over, then I decided to divide it all, which meant revising what i'd already done. I expect publication some time after the world ends in 2012.

      And the truth is I oughtta scrap it altogether and just write a dozen hubs on electronics or something but I'm too stubborn. This is what I want to write about, and I'm gonna wrestle the thing out of me and end up producing a piece of work so mauled and strangled and resuscitated that it's gonna be completely void of any passion or style and downright painful to read. big_smile

      But then it'll be behind me and I can move on, and hopefully by the time I finish the half dozen or so hubs on mormonism I'll know better what I'm doing and then can do better justice to my next subject. Though in truth I'm thinking of flushing most of the mormonism hubs and just using them as an example of how religion in general is -...misleading. Let us say.

      Thanks for thinking of it though, but don't let it worry you. The last thing I need right now really is more to think about! lol

      But it's definitely better than not having enough to think about it, that's for sure!

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      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Mormons are really an American thing right up until they come to your door and try to convert you. I haven't managed to scare up much interest in them.

        As for Egypt well there is a lot of ground there to cover.

        There was one ruler who came up with the idea that there is only one god you should worship and that is the sun god. The symbol he promoted,  the ankh, is also the symbol of life. It has a remarkable similarity to the Christian crucifix.  In any event, there is the possibility the Jews settled on the idea of there being one god only from spending time in captivity in Egypt.

        Freemasons claim to have a connection with the pyramid builders and also the builders of Solomon's temple. Most likely the only real claim they can make is to a connection with the cathedral builders of the middle ages.

        I have played around with Freemasonry a bit in my vampire short stories and my vampire novel Disco Evil. My Freemason vampire hunters, The Secret Compass, will also be active in my up coming novel Ghost Dance. I have a number of world branches of my Secret Compass including the Maclean Secret Compass who are fighting Scots whose fighting techniques originate with the Knights Templar that fled into Scotland from England during the persecutions.

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        1. Pandoras Box profile image60
          Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Oh yeah I know who you're talking about. Can't remember his name though. Tut's father, wasn't it? Starts with an A. I think. Ahmena- something or the other.

          Freemasonry seems like a natural fit for a vampire novel. Great idea. And dude! I just looked you up and saw your books on amazon! Four of them there, that is fantastic!

          I'm gonna have to read them.

          Four books! Wow you've done well. I tried writing a book based around a cherokee legend. Couldn't get past the first couple of chapters. I kept changing my mind about certain aspects of the plot and revising, revising, revising.

          Oh that is so wonderful, what an accomplishment! Just to finish a single short story is an accomplishment, but four whole books! And published!

          I gotta check you out.

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          1. Rod Marsden profile image67
            Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks PB.

            I started out with articles and short stories. I still go back to the short story from time to time.

            If you want to write a novel I suggest you start with a short story and see how that goes. The thing is that you can then take the economy you need for the short story across to the larger work and it can prevent you from getting into a muddle.

            Also I think in terms of roughs. Very few truly great writers I have read about or come across get their novel right in the first draft. Usually this is the time to think about flow and construction and characterization. Feel free to whack in everything. Hell, you can take the garbage out with the second draft and look for ways to make the whole thing read smooth in the third draft where you also check to see if your sub-plots line up nicely with the main plot and it all makes sense.

            So what I am saying is work in stages rather than think it will all happen in one great spurt of energy. And do have fun with the first draft. If you enjoy yourself and are inspired you can pass these things onto the reader.

            James A. Michener took eight drafts to write his novel Hawaii. Dickens was known to work in drafts and the same with Mark Twain. So there you have it. If great writers can't get it right first time up and don't expect to then I don't see myself doing it.

            I sometimes think of the Chinese saying that a walk of a thousand miles begins with one step. It is very much like that with writing.

            Yes Freemasonry came to my attention when I discovered how secretive Freemasons traditionally have been. Also they tend to pop up in top positions in both American and Australian history. Benjamin Franklin was a Freemason and so was Sir Walter Burley Griffin who designed the city of Canberra. Whats more, it has been said that both Washington and Canberra have Freemason protective devices designed into them to ward off evil. With this sort of background I feel inclined to make my vampire hunters Freemasons.

            Cherokee legend? Sounds interesting. I touch upon Aboriginal legends sometimes in my writing.

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            1. Pandoras Box profile image60
              Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Well I'm not sure I'm creative enough. I think I'm better at explaining stuff than I am at actually having original thoughts. Then it was like, it felt so.. outdated, like my writing style was outdated. I read like a book from the seventies or something.

              So I don't know. We'll see. Thanks for the tips though. I do certainly have the time now for it. Or I would have the time, if I stayed out of the forums!

              The legends are awesome.

              Freemasonry is intriguing, that's for sure. You gotta wonder what goes on at the top, and what secrets they might know.

              So tell me, in a couple of words how would you describe your Disco book? What genre would you call it, other than vampire lit? Are they in a series or complete stand-alones?

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              1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                PB my novel Disco Evil is what they now call Dark Fantasy. You can call it vampire lit or horror if you like. Horror is the main genre and the rest are sub-genres. All mentioned are appropriate in one way or another.

                Disco Evil is about a 20 something lad with dark thoughts on his mind when he is seduced by a female vampire and becomes one of the undead. She has an agenda to rid the world of what she considers to be arrogant men lacking in intelligence with a tendency to act like Nazi brutes. She was made over into a vampire during WW2 so she has that in her background.

                In ridding the world of such men she realizes it would be a good thing to have as an ally a male vampire she has sired who will eliminate females who are in their own way Nazi brutes. Paul Priestly, the main male character of Disco Evil, fits the bill. He will go after the female savages while she takes on the male savages. In this way both vampires justify their existence and continued existence.

                One of the early victims of Paul turns out to be the niece of a Secret Compass field agent. Thus begins a chase that takes him and the vampire he is after around the world.

                The second vampire book in what I hope will be a trilogy is titled Ghost Dance. It involves a Secret Compass psychic, a young man becoming a werewolf who needs to be saved from the family curse, a warlock intent on eliminating a third of the world's population in order to save the other two thirds, a female vampire who develops a soft spot for the young man becoming a werewolf and a dagger that, placed in the right hand, might again save Worms (Voems),Germany from a terrible fate.

                The title Ghost Dance has a number of meanings within the book. For example there are the skeletal dancers that appeared on woodcuts during the Black Death. There's Carnivale in Venice where at the stroke of midnight one is to remove one's mask. The upshot here is that you could have been dancing with someone ordinary or someone literally not, or perhaps no longer, of this world.

                Ghost Dance should come out in two or three months.

                The third book of my trilogy is Torch Song. In the 1960s in the Blue Mountains of NSW a town has been tricked by vampires into believing the atomic war has begun. They take shelter in nearby caves where they remain until the Secret Compass breaks the vampire's mental hold upon them. In the invasion of the town and the rescuing of the cave dwellers from forever being milked of blood by the undead, a young vampire woman loses her husband. How will she manage on her own? Will the Secret Compass  hunt down the vampire leaders who had maintained the town and its horrid secret?

                Torch Song will be the most involved of the novels.

                I wrote about the Secret Compass and also my Asian equivalent, the Rising Sun Group in a couple of my short stories which were published in the Undead Reb collection so my vampire hunters have been well thought out over time.

                The first book Disco Evil is probably the darkest of the three.

                Ghost Dance has all the hallmarks of an adventure novel with fangs and hair and magic.

                Torch Song is the one more firmly set in the 21st Century and apart from other things looks at people who are of the 20th Century and somewhat out of touch. You might say my version of Brave New World only its the world of today versus 1965.

                So there you go PB.

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                1. Pandoras Box profile image60
                  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I love the concept, good vs. evil, mixture of each among the tribes and characters, combined with elements of legend, sounds fantastic! You have to put an Amazon link to it at the end of the hub. I loved the first chapter of Disco Evil, and I'm gonna order it. Is Amazon the preferred purchase portal? Is it better for you if it's ordered from somewhere else?

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                  1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                    Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Amazon is fine thanks.

                    And thank you for your interest PB.

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  17. profile image0
    poetlorraineposted 13 years ago

    are we in the religious forums now, as i am feeling a little scared...

    We have a flight home for Sunday, at last, if you want to come to Dublin airport for a few pint of guiness, sometime Monday, drinks are on me...

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    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Mmmm! Guiness! You do have a good argument going for you there poetlorraine...

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    2. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Why wait till you get to Dublin? wink

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      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I have one or two on St Patrick's day....Not much of a drinker really.

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  18. mevsmyself profile image61
    mevsmyselfposted 13 years ago

    Alright I didn't go through the entire thread so pardon me if these points have been mentioned before. But I will like to throw in my 2 cents about the religion topic.

    First a little about myself. I am 22 years old and out of my life of 22 years I had been a Muslim for 21 years. Now I am an atheist. For the time I was Muslim, I literally had no idea what the religion was about. I never read the Quran because it is in Arabic and I don't understand even a word of Arabic. But there was this voice inside me that always said that Islam is a good religion and it is the only true religion and every other religion is wrong. Sounds familiar?

    Well this is the basis of every religion. They have to discard the beliefs of other religions because every other religion jeopardizes their credibility.

    I always used to think that once I get the time, I will study the religion in more detail and find out the truth about Islam. I will show everyone why they have been wrong about Islam all along and why it is the ONLY true religion. Because at that time I believed sincerely that Islam was the true religion.

    But once I actually got the time to think about it and study a little bit about the religion, I realized there is absolutely nothing special about it. I am not going to go into the details into why I gave up Islam in particular. But I came to know the faults in religions in particular.

    The place I live in right now is very religious. Every one is fanatic muslim and everyone is 100% sure they are going to heaven when they die. This has made them so ridiculously complacent that they don't really care about this world. In fact, they don't even care if they do anything immoral which isn't mentioned in Islam as immoral. None of them try to make this world a better place because they think that this is only temporary.

    This makes me feel more and more disgusted every day. This made me realize that there are only two possibilities with religions and the eternal life after death.

    1. If there is no God, then I live a life living it and die happily.
    2. If there is a God, and Islam is true. Then imagine a heaven filled with muslims with beard like Osama Bin Laden and smug smiles on their faces. None of them drink, have sex, and/or eat pork. On the other hand their is hell, which contains the greatest personalities in the world. From Abraham Lincon, to Mahatma Gandhi to Angelina Jolie. (Please take note, I am talking about Islam over here. This will be the result according to Islam.) So, if this is the case then I will choose hell over heaven any day.

    Of course their is the possibility that some other religion is the true religion. But the scenario will almost be the same in each case, because according to every religion, anyone that doesn't follow it is going to hell.

    So either ways, I am content. smile

    replyreport
    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Testify, brother!

      Oh my gods I sound like a redneck.

      I loved your post. Thank you so much for sharing. I'd have so much to say if I didn't really have to get going here.

      In short, I know how you feel. Well almost. I was only a 'christian' for about 4 or 5 years. The ultimate deciding factor for me when I finally put it all away was that if a god existed who would punish us for honest thinking, then I didn't want to kneel at his feet anyway. If I pretended to believe, I'd lose all self-respect.

      I hope you stick around, I'd love to see more of you here. Your post clearly shows someone capable of deep thought, humility, and honesty. All great things! I hope you're real, lol.

      No offense, it's forum tradition here to doubt new members until they've been here long enough.

      Yeah christianity would agree with islam on that one. All three of them are hell-bound. Well maybe not Jolie. I dunno I don't really follow the stars. Maybe she'd get a pass for adopting children.

      Looking forward to reading your hubs. Really gotta fly now, but welcome to HubPages! Alot of good people here.

      replyreport
      1. mevsmyself profile image61
        mevsmyselfposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the reply. I understand the doubting. I am quite familiar with the Internet Marketing tactics (Being an IM myself). But I like hubpages and I plan on using it for my campaigns, at the same time providing value to the community. I really like the interface for creating a hub. And the forums, seems pretty nice as well. Although, I try to stay away from forums as much as I can. They are very time consuming. Good to know there are like minded people over here. But, this just makes it harder for me to stay away from these forums.

        Nice to meet you Pandoras Box, Have a good flight. smile

        replyreport
      2. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Pandora, I'm not sure I want to know what kind of Christianity you were taught, because God does not punish people for honest thinking.

        And mevs, not all religions teach that only people of a particular religion will go to Heaven.

        replyreport
        1. Mark Knowles profile image58
          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          But yours does... wink

          replyreport
    2. mevsmyself profile image61
      mevsmyselfposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Okay, I just realized that this post doesn't belong here. It doesn't go with the topic. You guys are probably gonna bash on me for posting this here.

      So, In advance, I apologize. Please consider the fact that I am new here. smile

      replyreport
      1. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Don't sweat it, we go off topic all the time. It's half the fun!

        replyreport
      2. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        You may want to repost under religions and beliefs, top middle of the screen hit the post new topic button.

        Introduce yourself, everyone here is very friendly. (Most of the time.) smile

        replyreport
        1. Rod Marsden profile image67
          Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          PB is right. We don't bite...much...

          replyreport
  19. Pandoras Box profile image60
    Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago

    By the way, Rod, I wanted to let you know that all the frogs were saved. We usually do save them when we find them alive, there's just a slight difference in methods, but none of us are actually frog killers. My husband will fling them over the fence in the general direction of the pond, my son will pass them over through the boards more gently, which I will sometimes prefer to do as well, but my younger daughter always delivers them safely all the way back to the horse pond in the neighbor's pasture where we expect they come from. Probably best method anyway, since it means they're far less likely to come back!

    replyreport
    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nice to know PB. I honestly didn't think you were frog killers.

      Sounds like your youngest daughter might become a naturalist or a vet or both some day.

      replyreport
  20. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    PB you are lovely! Frog love shows so much about who you are! smile

    replyreport
    1. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You may be giving me too much credit, lol. Frog-love may be pushing it.

      We do keep african dwarf frogs though. Little fish tank frogs. Though we only have two of them now. They're very cute, but more is better.

      replyreport
      1. earnestshub profile image81
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I just get a mental pic of your daughter taking them back to their home!
        I don't think I give you too much credit, your daughter learned from you didn't she? lol That is real frog love!

        replyreport
  21. Rod Marsden profile image67
    Rod Marsdenposted 13 years ago

    Frogs are wonderful and the people who treat them well are also wonderful.

    replyreport
    1. earnestshub profile image81
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, caring about our little friends is very important in many ways. smile

      replyreport
      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Good for the soul earnestshub good for the soul.

        replyreport
        1. earnestshub profile image81
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Agreed. I was bought up with a logger father who would stop the bulldozer to move any of our small friends that got in the way.

          To this day I do not harm anything I can see with few exceptions.

          I know I kill many things every time my foot hits the ground, but do the best I can with anything I can see.
          Spiders get moved to a new home, as do any other small insect people in my home.

          Essential for my well-being. I do kill mosquitoes though! smile

          replyreport
  22. profile image0
    getmybackposted 13 years ago

    yikes

    replyreport
    1. earnestshub profile image81
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not a spider lover getmyback? smile

      replyreport
      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Not keen on spiders myself earnestshub but they do have their place.

        As for insect catchers I prefer frogs and lizards. I have a pair of blue tongues living under my unit and it is fine with me. My neighbors are also cool with them being there. Since no one bothers them I get the impression they think they're doing a fine job sneaking around. Let them think that way.

        replyreport
        1. earnestshub profile image81
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I really like blue tongues, although they do get a bit feisty at times!
          I have not seen one for a while. Two is luxury! smile

          replyreport
          1. Rod Marsden profile image67
            Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            yeah they're good value but I am careful to leave them alone. They mustn't think humans are too friendly. I trust my neighbors not to hurt them but that's as far as it goes. They're better off being wary of us humans.

            There was a time when two nieces of mine thought lizards were yuck. I introduced them to some long tailed friends of mine and two years later they told me they had a resident water dragon in their back yard and the occasional blue tongue visitor and they seemed happy enough to have them around.

            You are right earnestshub when you say you can teach kids to have understanding and even compassion for wildlife. If PB has done that will her daughter then great. On the other hand some credit should be given to her daughter for being the kind of person who can learn to care.

            replyreport
            1. earnestshub profile image81
              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Spot on Ron, the child has the goods!

              When I lived in Darwin, our salt water swimming pool had a cavity down the side of it.
              A huge water monitor lived in there, and used our pool as if he owned it! Beautiful creature, but a bit vicious! It took me 6 months to make friends with him. smile

              replyreport
              1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Friendships aren't always made over night.

                replyreport
                1. earnestshub profile image81
                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It is amazing how animals come around when you feed them like kings. They are so beautiful to watch, He eventually befrended the kids too. (subject to them treating him like a lord, and constantly giving him fruit from our garden of course!)He was also crazy for steak, fish and the local crickets.

                  replyreport
                  1. Rod Marsden profile image67
                    Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    All that is great for your water monitor. The only word of caution here is what is likely to happen if he meets up with some other humans and thinks they will also be friendly?

                    Animals are amazing. Care has to be taken so they don't get hurt by us or are inadvertently set up to be hurt by someone else.

                    Kids can be wonderful when they do get the picture and they are our best hope for a future in which we still have amazing animals.

                    replyreport
  23. the pink umbrella profile image73
    the pink umbrellaposted 13 years ago

    you know what? i dont get all of this. Seriously shouldnt you just go through life making sure you dont hurt anyone in any way? isnt that the bottom line to all religeon anyway?

    replyreport
    1. Beelzedad profile image58
      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The bottom line for religion for us poor nonbelievers is a one way trip to eternal hellfire.

      We don't hurt anyone and we figured that out on our own. smile

      replyreport
    2. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not hurting people or avoiding doing so is a great thing. in the meantime there are animal, fish, bird, and plant species going extinct because we are so selfish with our use of this planet. What's more, religion has been used too often in the past as a way of rationalizing this selfishness. Being good to other people is really only half the battle won if that.

      replyreport
  24. tfhodge profile image60
    tfhodgeposted 13 years ago

    Those who choose to be (negatively) confrontational with regard to religious beliefs are not secure in their faith.  One who is secure in his/her convictions never finds it necessary to be defensive.

    T.F. Hodge
    Writer/Author/Blogger
    http://www.fromwithinirise.com

    replyreport
    1. Beelzedad profile image58
      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      But, they can be incredibly offensive. smile

      replyreport
      1. profile image0
        Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        no, they love you.

        replyreport
        1. Beelzedad profile image58
          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Is that why they want to send me to hell, because they love me? You don't normally send people you love to burn in agony for an eternity.  smile

          replyreport
          1. earnestshub profile image81
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yeh, funny way to love somebody! lol

            replyreport
            1. Jerami profile image59
              Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              How many kinds of love are there?

              replyreport
              1. Jerami profile image59
                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I love my wife, I love my Moma, I love My Truck a LOT and I realy LOVE T-bone steak.  and the list goes on======

                replyreport
      2. the pink umbrella profile image73
        the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        yep

        replyreport
      3. the pink umbrella profile image73
        the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        yep

        replyreport
      4. profile image0
        Norah Caseyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Okay folks, it is time for me to make a statement about religious and political forum topics and discussions. It appears that my calls to 'report all offensive behavior' have been misconstrued. Here are my thoughts on these sections of the forum.

        1) Discussing your religious or political beliefs with anyone, particularly on the internet, can and eventually will result in an argument. By entering into these discussions in a public forum, especially with trolls or, shall we say, individuals who are exceptionally focused in their beliefs, is only going to cause problems. Name calling, personal threats, etc are strictly prohibited, but someone arguing the merits of your beliefs or opinions does not constitute a personal attack. If you don't like the negative attention your viewpoint receives, don't talk about your personal beliefs in the forums.

        2) Flagging someone during a debate is not an effective means of winning an argument. Forum bans can be applied to multiple individuals.

        3) Everyone's beliefs are offensive to someone, just for differing with their own world view or spiritual philosophy. This is a fact of life, especially on the internet. Keep this in mind before you hit submit on a forum post in Religious/Political threads.

        Remember, these discussions are not for the faint of heart. As always, continue to flag all posts you believe to be in violation to our TOS and we will review them promptly.

        replyreport
  25. N. Ramius profile image72
    N. Ramiusposted 13 years ago

    Weeks a go I posted a question has anyone been swayed by other's statements in this forum and I got a resounding no. So I really don't see the purpose of it.

    replyreport
    1. profile image0
      EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this



      I've done a 180 degree turn on a couple of things over the past 10 years, due entirely (or at least initially) to debates I've had on Internet forums.  So yes, it can happen.  Mind you, it doesn't happen often...

      replyreport
    2. profile image0
      poetlorraineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      it passes the time

      replyreport
  26. the pink umbrella profile image73
    the pink umbrellaposted 13 years ago

    No one has ever really been swayed by simple conversation. i dont think ive ever heard of anyone hear about a religeon and say "your right that makes perfect sense" and then all of a sudden they are buddhist or catholic. People either grow up in a religeon or are scared into one. Or maybe something happens to them like cancer survival and they feel indebted to god or something. All i know is that when a religeous conversation begins, it always turns into a debate. My father in law will swear christians shove christianity in your face, and then he will turn around and have me in a headlock about scientology for an hour, hounding me until he sees some sign that i agree with him. I dont get why it even is a conversation, because i dont think its fair to #1 argue with anyone about what they believe, and #2attack people with frusterating comments like "you must not be secure in your faith."
    I remember i gave a bike to my neighbor when i was 8 yrs old. I gave it to her because she didnt have one. No one said thank you, but they did say they would be thanking God in their prayers that night. I didnt do it for a thank you, but i gave her the bike out of my own selflessness. I always saw her on her porch when everyone was riding and thought, i dont need to ride my bike, ive had my turn, you know just simple kid rational.
    Then my brother was in chapel with me in school once, and the pastor had chosen people stand up front and my brother was one of them. He unlike me had really started to feel a pull towards the faith and really began to believe. The pastor was touching the foreheads of those people, and they were fainting. When he got to my brother, my brother didnt go down, and the pastor was on him for like 5 minuts, and started really pushing on his head. Finally my brother faked it because he didnt want to embarass the pastor.
    These things that ive wittnessed have not made me against christianity, and im not against any religeon. As i have said myself, i think i would be a very self centered person to think they i the info one the one true answer, and that is why i have no concrete belief.
    What I have sen has just made me feel like religeon has stopped being a personal beliefe and salvation, and become more of a lifestyle or show. Like peer presure in church, the pressure kids get to raise their hands because everyone else is.
    Maybe im rambling, maybe im not making sense. But I just dont understand why we all sit here and debate something that is so personal. If i said i saw a ghost, and you didnt believe in ghosts, you might say all of these things about how they dont exist and try to prove me wrong, but its something i know i saw right? So really everything your saying invalidates me, and just ends up upsetting me and hurting my feelings, and making me feel like maybe im wrong. Why do that to someone? Let them have their faith. Or, let them not have any faith. But Just knowing you believe what you believe, shouldn't that be all you need? Why prove or disprove something to someone else as huge and diverse as religeon? i mean really, unless your the type of person that gets a rise out of upsetting someone or pissing them off. Religeous debates are so agressive. Faith should bring peace in your own heart, not frusteration that someone else dosnt see it your way. All i know is, anyone who thinks they have the authority on any topic is not the person i want to sit next to.

    replyreport
  27. Pandoras Box profile image60
    Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago

    Rod and Earnest, I passed on your praise to my young frog loving daughter, and I appreciate the chance it gave me to reinforce her better traits.

    She is somewhat a natural. She is my least well-behaved child, no doubt, and yet she has a deeper, more expressed compassion than the other two. 

    Its funny how each child is different. This one feels EVERYTHING deeply. Sweet, yes, but don't make her mad!

    replyreport
    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Fine with me you passed on what we said about her to your daughter. I thought you might but I am glad you told us that you did.

      My Family and Other Animals by Gerald Durrell would be a good book to give her when she reaches 13 or 14. Durrell tells about his adventures on the Greek island of Corfu when he was a child. He was the kind of kid whose pockets you had to be careful going through. Anything might pop out of them. He grew up to become a great naturalist, author and zoologist. He ended up running a zoo. My Family and Other Animals starts off when Durrell was 10 and quite a handful. I loved the story when I read it many years ago.

      If you don't mind me saying so from your description this daughter of yours  sound a lot like YOU PB.

      replyreport
      1. Pandoras Box profile image60
        Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        No, hah, thank you, but they're all much better than I, thank goodness! But yeah, she does have a smart mouth and argumentative nature.  wink

        replyreport
    2. alternate poet profile image67
      alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If she feels everything deeply then she can easier see the contradictions between what the world says and what it does - of course she would rebel LOL 

      Definately like you !!!   "she does have a smart mouth and argumentative nature."

      replyreport
  28. profile image0
    poetlorraineposted 13 years ago

    a smart mouth and an argumentitive nature, sounds good to me

    replyreport
  29. Jerami profile image59
    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    N. Ramius wrote:
    Weeks a go I posted a question has anyone been swayed by other's statements in this forum and I got a resounding no. So I really don't see the purpose of it.
    ======================================

       We sometimes learn without even knowing it.

    replyreport
  30. pylos26 profile image69
    pylos26posted 13 years ago

    Sometimes I am reluctant to enter the religous forums...afraid I will be bored to death.

    replyreport
    1. earnestshub profile image81
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I just lost a follower that way! Bored to death and gone. Too much religion can do that! smile

      replyreport
      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Not a whole heap o' religion in this religious forum. Let us pray for more...(just kidding).

        replyreport
        1. earnestshub profile image81
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yep I can hardly wait for the next pious outpouring! smile

          replyreport
          1. SummerSteward profile image60
            SummerStewardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hey earnestshub! How are you?

            I lost a couple followers actually after I participated in a forum topic relating to religion..It's to bad really. I wasn't aware we were following here based on personality (I mean I know it happens, a lot) but I liked thinking I was fanned based on my talent and it's audience.. anyhoo

            replyreport
            1. earnestshub profile image81
              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Hi Summer thank you for asking. I am very happy and well thank you!

              Yeh too bad. I miss em like the plague! lol lol lol

              replyreport
    2. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Things too mild and watery maybe? What you need Pylos26 is some thunder and lightning from on high and a burning bush in the wilderness or maybe a singing shrub that happens to be a baritone with a chorus line of femme fatale shrubbery with divine limbs (NEVER legs but LIMBS!).     

      Oh and pylos26 maybe you should go join the Methodists for hell fire and brimstone preaching. What you need is one of their  preacher men who rattles the church, the  earth and the universe ever Sunday with his version of the wrath of the all might. How does that sound?

      replyreport
  31. profile image50
    The Paulposted 13 years ago

    A personal relationship with Jesus Christ...

    Tycho Brahe and Jonathan Gabriel have a
    personal relationship with Jesus Christ Possible for them because they are fictional characters.

    Christians have a religion.

    replyreport
    1. earnestshub profile image81
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Loved the cartoon! smile

      replyreport
  32. Rod Marsden profile image67
    Rod Marsdenposted 13 years ago

    Saw the cartoon The Paul and weird was all I got out of it.

    replyreport
    1. profile image50
      The Paulposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Aside from my finding the idea of Jesus Christ "throwing up the horns" hilarious, it depicts a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  If you can go to Jesus' house and get your ass kicked at Mortal Kombat, you have a personal relationship with him.  If you pray and then get a peaceful feeling, you've got a religion.

      replyreport
      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        A very Agnostic Christian sort of attitude. According to the Agnostics you DO have to form a personal relationship with Jesus if you are to be saved. I don't reckon they had Mortal Kombat games in mind  because the only computer around in ancient Rome at the time was the abacus and you can't play Mortal Kombat on one of those unless you substitute humans in armor for computer combatants.  For a start your abacus doesn't come with a screen. Beads yes but no screen. Of course there could be modern day Agnostic Christians around happy to play a game or two of Mortal Kombat with Jesus.

        replyreport
  33. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    I thought up a little ditty.

    I don't do jesus, or the pope
    or climb the top of endless rope
    nor do I worship little men
    making others victims with their pen
    No not for me the fire of hell or christian views of tinkerbell
    I'd like to shout it from the roof
    How about we stay with thruth?
    No scary fairy in the sky just mad beliefs that ever cry
    "lets kill them all, they do not love... the scary fairy up above"

    replyreport
    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I could dig THRUTH. What magic powers does he have? just Joking Earnest.

      Nice poem and to the point.

      replyreport
      1. earnestshub profile image81
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        A little bit of instant silliness to lighten the mood. smile smile

        replyreport
        1. Rod Marsden profile image67
          Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          More light! There's the ticket!

          replyreport
  34. 4x4 profile image59
    4x4posted 13 years ago

    That's the only con that I see though. People being "afraid" to be slammed, and rightly so as it does get pretty ugly.

    The way I see it, people have been burned by religion, by  religious fanatics and idiotic people from all sides, and also people want to do their own thing and even justify what they believe in, it is hard to find really great above board discussions about faith and spirituality.

    And you have to factor all these in when you consider all the different types of people that you would hope to meet and encounter in any religious forum. And so as they say, if you can't take the heat, get out of those forums quick.

    replyreport
  35. earnestshub profile image81
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Are we ready to move on to the faith as truth, science knows nothing stage yet?
    You know, where the poor ignorant peasants can't see god cos they're all homosexual lovin deviates? smile

    replyreport
    1. Randy Godwin profile image61
      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Me too, Earnest!  I always love that part.  I don't know though, the real hellfire and brimstone crowd seems to have dissipated lately.  What happened to Brenda?

      replyreport
      1. Rod Marsden profile image67
        Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I asked earlier on Randy for hellfire and brimstone but it got awfully quiet.


        Earnest, I have a new hub titled There Came A Day that might rattle a few cages. Some years ago I was given the challenge of creating a whole short story in one single paragraph. Hence the reason why this story is super short.

        replyreport
  36. Diane Inside profile image73
    Diane Insideposted 13 years ago

    I have come to decide that at least here on hubpages, that these so called religious forums are not religious forums at all, since anyone can comment, it usually gets harassed by others who are not religious, then debates ensue.

    Therefore it is not a fear of religious forums, it is knowing that they are not in essence a religious forum at all.

    replyreport
  37. psycheskinner profile image84
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    It isn't necessarily fear keeping people out, more like boredom or frustration at the repetitivelness of it all.

    replyreport
    1. Randy Godwin profile image61
      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "There's nothing new under the sun"  could be true!

      replyreport
  38. profile image0
    ralwusposted 13 years ago

    Here's the brimstone. who has the hellfire?

    http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_tx1I9M1iEAPAOjzbkF/SIG=1369tlfeg/EXP=1284580849/**http%3a//endoftheworld.net/Jesus/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Brimstone-At-Gomorah.jpg

    replyreport
    1. chatpilot profile image68
      chatpilotposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am an atheist who was a fundamentalist evangelist  for four years from 1990 - 1994.  I enjoy entering into discussion and even debates with the religious in the forums. I don't think it is harassment as long as each side can keep from personal insults or mocking language. In my opinion a little debate is healthy, I have currently 3 hubs on atheism and I don't censor responses or comments nor do I mind when religious people come to my hubs to try and refute my claims. In the end we either leave a little wiser than when we first arrived or we leave with the same opinions we held when we got there no harm no foul.

      replyreport
      1. earnestshub profile image81
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I just finished reading your hub "God is a myth" a very well written hub indeed. smile

        replyreport
        1. hanging out profile image60
          hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It was well written.

          replyreport
  39. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    People Afraid to Enter the Religious Forums

    They might think that being Atheists Skeptics Agnostics they have no brilliant argument to offer to these forums.

    replyreport
    1. Beelzedad profile image58
      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That might just depend on whether or not a "brilliant argument" was indeed necessary to offer.

      Often, a few dollops of common sense are all that is required. smile

      replyreport
  40. profile image0
    klarawieckposted 13 years ago

    There is no point on arguing over religion. No matter what you say, you won't change someone else's mind. Best thing to do is have a sense of humor instead of getting upset. It's only a "personal attack" if you allow it to be.

    replyreport
  41. profile image0
    maddy757posted 13 years ago

    i would never argue based on religion. !

    replyreport
    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There is no compulsion to argue; it is just optional.

      replyreport
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HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)