According to a report, the Obama administration has left the country VULNERABLE to a bioterrorism attack. Obama failed to appoint anyone with a biodefense background while Clinton and Bush did.
You can read the report here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington … reat_N.htm
Obama is too busy wasting his time on Olympic bids, healthcare, making talk show rounds and making speeches that people want to hear.
We have had countless terrorist arrests IN THE U.S. over the last 3 weeks, including one today in Mass. News flash, WE HAVE TERRORIST LIVING AMONG US and we really need to be careful. Unfortunately, it's not IF there will be another attack but WHEN.
I DO NOT feel safe with Obama as president when it comes to protecting the U.S. He has no experience and never served in our military. He is green and world leaders know this.
If one attack happens on U.S. soil while he's in office, he is done and so are the Democrats. People feel way safer with Republicans in charge of the military.
This is a new world order and terrorism will only get stronger. We don't have to worry about China or Russia as much as terrorists and that will always be the future enemy.
Obama has attack FOX News for making claims against him so it will be interesting to see what he does with USA Today. If all the news media start pointing fingers at Obama, what will he do?
Who elected this clown as president btw?
Unfortunitatly he was the best candidate, and he got the win!
We are wide open for much loss.
The gold standard, restricting the Navy under the Guise of ocean treaties, A lack of proper Military support, in a commited war we can not back out of.
Concessions to Russia to let them Grab, by illegal expanshion, the natural gas lines going into Europe, lettiing China own our debt under the guize of borrowing from world banking money pools, without questioning where or who owns the money.
Loss of free speach by fear of an Executive Office Constitutionaly over stepping its powers, an attempt to Bypass Congressional oversight, and get things done outside the Congress as an extenshion of powers illegialy and he is backing off everything, to just look good to a world lobby. He is crap!
No real firm stance on anything. He is eclective in his idealism, and mis-applying history of the past as lessons for today. he is an ego maniac, with arrogant thinking, that he will line up with Great men of the past, the problem is those men were all American, not Socialists, easily duped by World Leraders up to their own occult agendas. He is too green, for even dealing with the Senate and Congress, he has had only 300 days experience in Federal Goverment????
He is creating a mess for us all the way.
He is already gone in the minds of most, I hope we all stick to it and rally, give him a Chicago Buss ticket back home with his gang buds. It is time to rally and stop this crap.
We got dupped by a harvardite social idealist, with the silver spoon up his butt, screaming we are a flawed country and need change! He had a very hidden agenda already prepaired for us, and we got caught up in advertising hype, and wishes for Change for all...it is not so!
He wasn't the best candidate and I did not get duped! Obama is like a kid in a candy store, he thinks everything is his because he is naive, he goes after Fox because he really,really thinks he can control the media by using thug tactics. Thugs usually get bitch slapped before too long!
Compared to McCain and his performance, he was the best at being dynamic, but it was all lies and hype, and the Majority did not vote for him, but the manipulation of the caucases and the electoriate was idealist hope for change. He had their ear.
They, and thus we got duped, I did not vote that way either, but the Country got manipulated well. Research the election technique, it comes out. He carried the High deligate states only, not the popular vote. He needs to go. He's no good for America.
A very clear majority voted for him. If you deny that, then you might as well argue that the moon is made of green cheese.
Says you. You'll have a chance at voting in a better man/woman in 2012. I hear both Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney are the leading contenders.
With all the hype and one-sided media coverage Obama got, you think winning by 53% is a clear majority? No where close.
It shows a lot of people were skeptical.
Welcome to American electoral politics. 53% is a clear majority, as was the nearly 200 electoral vote difference. Take a look at the past couple of decades and find a more decisive win.
Lots of people remain skeptical of Obama. They are not the majority.
It can be easy to mistake your sentiments and those who you talk to daily as representative of the entire country. Easy mistake, but still a mistake.
um 70% of Americans did........deal with it
Dont split hairs with me , point is majority spoke h
amazing how liberals can be so naive. Who voted for him? black, uninformed and misinformed.
Fact check...sorry Obama did NOT win 70% of the Vote:
Nominee Barack Obama John McCain
Party Democratic Republican
Home state Illinois Arizona
Running mate Joe Biden Sarah Palin
Electoral vote 365 173
States carried 28 + DC + NE-02 22
Popular vote 69,456,897 59,934,814
Percentage 52.9% 45.7%
In his speach in Chicago he siad; For all of you who did not Vote for me, I will be your President to! So far I do not see it!
I think the "70%" comes from the voter turnout, which was very high for a US election. If I remember correctly it was about 70% which is the highest voter turnout for a presidential-year election since early 20th century.
Thankyou , I appreciate your mature and intelligent input in this debate Bibowen.
I also think the facts you produced show that the American people cared anough to get out and vote for a change.
Most people agree that major changes were needed.
I guess its always hard throwing away clutter ,and changing staff.
Personally I find it scary that on one hand the very people who shout 'Freedom of Speech' would not hestitate to silence it ,when they disagree with what they hear
At least Im encouraged to know that there are some objective and openminded people out there too
I think part of the voter turnout was due to motivation for Obama. People were motivated to elect him in much the same way that Conservative Republicans were motivated to vote for Dubya in 2000 & 2004. I saw people stand in line for over 6 hours at one polling place in FL to vote in 2004. The precinct was solid-Republican. They were standing there to vote for Bush. Obama had that kind of momentum. People would have stood all day and into the night to vote for him.
But, part of the higher turnout effect, I think, is due to easier registration. You have a lot more "on the spot" registration than you use to. In the state of FL voting is much more accessible. You can get a ballot mailed to you, "touch-screen" voting appears about a week before election day at places like the local library, or you can do it the ole' fashioned way of going to your precinct. These are changes that were implemented after the "Florida Debacle" of 2000.
At one level, I'm glad that more people are voting. However the ease of voting can quickly degenerate into voting fraud. It's ironic that progressives were the ones that earlier had advocated high standards for voting registration, making it more difficult to vote, at the same time raising the liklihood that the person voting was a qualified voter.
If truth be told, this is done on both sides. Both liberals and conservatives are willing to limit speech at some level. These are generalities but conservatives tend to want to limit speech that is not "decent." Pornography and obscenity are fair game to be silenced. Also, speech that would create social anarchy (inciting a riot, for example) are also fair game.
As for liberals, they tend to try to silence speech that is aimed at those groups whose causes they claim to advance. University campus' drive to silence "hate speech" and current attempts to silence conservative talk radio or FoxNews are examples.
There are very few people who would advocate unfettered speech. Even those that claim to be "libertarians" will have some limits if you press them.
I'm pretty much a proponent of unrestricted free speech. If some idiot wants to quote Hitler, Mao or some other mass murderer, let them. By their actions you will know the true content of their character and once you know that, you can treat them accordingly.
Have you ever noticed that YOU are the only one who likes to involve "Hitler" in your arguments?
I don't think its splitting hairs when someone writes something so blatantly wrong! I think it needs to be pointed too so in the future people can decide whether or not to take your word for statistics!
Oh please ,what are you Reuters or something,lol I have read and heard of many different polls , Im sure there is a politcially correct one somewhere but it would no doubt get buried in the dust in this forum anyway!
I stand by my assertion that the majority won hands down
and I will re check stats in the future ( or not)
It was 53%...not the landslide that it was made out to be.
Lots of independents voted for him who would likely change their mind if the election were held again tomorrow. Oh, well, hopefully will teach people to research their candidates more before jumping at promises of "change".
Most people (as in these forums) vote with their emotions, the chance that they will be bothered to research statistics or a candidate is virtually nonexistent!
What few foreigners, indeed many natives, don't realize is that 53% only comes out to about 26% of the population seeing as only about half of the eligible population votes. So no, he really didn't have the support he claims. At least 24% of the population opposed him and up to 50% of the population didn't care. But I think they care right now. For the first time in modern history the "silent majority" is getting involved. They're getting involved because of the stupidity of this President. It'll be interesting to see how he tries to marginalize this new majority that is forming against him.
We are. We are recognizing that we all made a huge nightmare of a mistake.
Yes you did. You drove every sane Republican out of your party. Only 20% of the American People would admit to being a Republican today. You are disintegrating like the Wicked Witch of the West. And What do you do??? Why you just go full steam ahead and plan more TEA PARTIES. I hear most of them will be held in Parking lots. Little Parking lots. Oh Oh...One is going to be Held in a big ole Park!!! In picnic area number 4.
By the way I feel a whole lot safer with Obama than I felt with Bush. He spent most of his terms on vacation. And he took his eye of the ball in Afghanistan. He Let OSAMA BIN LADEN get away at Bora Bora. He did not secure our Borders. He left this country the most hated country in the world by the time he left office. And he left this country in financial ruin. Barack Obama CHANGED all that. I'll stick with him, and wish him the best.
Kinda like that million man march? What was that final number again?
Do you have anything to say or are you just mad?
Let me correct you....53% of the people did: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington … reat_N.htm
You were obviously one of the 53% who were misled.
Did you really think you could slip this one by?
So what are you waiting for? Don't you have the power to kick him out of Office?
Obama can't see beyond partisan politics. He doesn't have a clue as to how to keep a country safe. Obamatites bash Bush a lot but it is Bush's policies (both those that were put in place earlier and those in place now) that are keeping our nation safe. Obama is living off of borrowed capital. Furthermore, the president is too busy attacking Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and FoxNews to focus on trivialities like bioterrorism.
It seems that Americans have gone crazy. We have seen madness for Obama during election campaign. And now witnessing hatred against him.
What changed in less than a year? Except President Obama has got Noble Prize?
People from all over the world expect much more matured behavior from the Americans who claim themselves to be the world leader.
You're right it was the Nobel Prize that did it.
I agree. It would seem that is the issue. Fear is the pandemic here. Fortunately, not good common sense in some cases.
No--just common sense. See, fear is fueling this forum. It is fear that causes irrational responses. Education does help some. I know, if something was to happen--I can respond and do my best to protect the American people. Indiscriminately.
Common sense says not to lead from the top down but from the middle out? That is all you said, local agencies are responsible and DHS is not important. Keep studying, I will let my years in the Marine Corps and people with actual experience guide me!
You're responses is always "try again." Why don't you educate us if you know everything? I'm being serious. You have this homeland security degree.
Why would a congressional report point out this blaring weakness with Obama's choice (to me its a weakness) but its ok according to you and the report is wrong?
I really want to know. I'm curious.
Again, I am not stating the report is wrong. I am trying to inform you that it does not matter if he has someone in charge. Everything happens first at the local level. Federal systems do not respond unless the State and local government cannot handle response efforts. Even then, there is a system in place already. FEMA would handle the Federal response. And there is already someone heading FEMA.
Well, I can tell you that living in Phoenix, we have never had a bioterrorism drill. I have no idea what to even do if it happened here.
So our local level has failed.
You and I partially agree, I think. FEMA in my opinion is just a massive waste of money. An unintended consequence of FEMA is that people take these threats much less seriously. I mean, what is the point of preparing if the government has an agency, more likely several agencies, working on it? After all, aren't these guys professionals?
Even read Holy Terror, Armageddon in Tokyo?
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Terror-Armag … 0834803534
Brackett, among other things, was an Air Force counter-terrorism expert. He continually argued in his book that more effort needed to be diverted to looking for what he called "ultra-terrorists" or terrorists who used WMD's. Yet the attack on the Towers, which caused more deaths than Aum did using sarin, was very low tech. They used box-cutters for Christ's sake. The actions of Flight 93 tells us all we need to know about how American's deal with crisis situations.
I believe that the other flights, had they known what was going to happen, would have done the same thing. Let me ask you this. Who keeps airplanes safe? The sky marshals or the passengers who will tackle and beat any hijacker into submission should they ever try something like that again?
Well, that is just it. No one knows if and when another attack of that specific magnitude were to occur. Let's just hope government intelligence does its job. I am not familiar of the tactics in place if and when that were to happen again. Lets just hope someone is paying close attention. It is not just the 'air marshals' available on planes to keep order, protection happens long before the actual incident. I hope the improvements that were made are efficient enough to save lives. I have that same concern as well.
Much better to figure things out for yourself. I live in a rural town in Missouri, so unless planes just start falling out of the sky, I should have time to get may contingency plans into motion. About the only thing I really have to worry about is another anthrax thing through the mail or some kind of pandemic. There is a nuclear power plant that can theoretically disperse radioactive fallout here if they have an "event", so I've given some thought to that too.
Now if I lived in New York, my plans would be quite different. I might move and find a way to telecommute or something. Maybe think about using the subway system as an ersatz shelter or something. Most people don't think that way, it's low on their list of priorities and that's why they'll most likely be a victim if the balloon ever goes up.
Brilliant! Contingency plans should be mandatory for everyone. If a Bio attack were to occur, many individuals would have to 'shelter in place' and I do not believe that everyone is prepared to take care of themselves for a few days or a few weeks until help arrives. Great point you made!
Did you think about that before you said it? How do you force people to make, much less devote themselves to contingency planning? It has to be an individual decision. I mean, I get strange looks when I talk about stuff like that to people I know. It's like they're looking for the tin foil beanie or something.
Still I was once a Boy Scout and have taken their motto seriously. When the bodies start hitting the floor, I intend to be one of the ones left standing. Have you ever read The Survivor's Club? It's a great book that has all sorts of useful tips and trick to give you the edge in a survival situation.
Yes, I agree. You cannot force anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Yes you are absolutely correct: it is an individual decision. Maybe it should be mandatory for the States to make individuals aware of what they may need to do in an instance of emergency. Thanks for pointing that one out as well. Thanks for the reference. I will look into it.
And who would be the one responsible for making sure the States have done it? A Federal person? Yesssssssssssssss! Back to where we started!
This guy clearly is just trying to help Obama even though he knows the congressional report is right. He is talking in circles...haha.
Rather than make things mandatory, why not just start an awareness campaign to let people know where they can find the information. Most people will still ignore it but those who are interested can find what they need. That way there is no force involved and people are free to make their own decisions.
Another great point! How would you go about making people aware of the information that is available to them in your State?
By hiring someone at the top that knows what they are doing.
Wow, for a homeland security degree (back of a cereal box), you sure sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.
-sigh- it starts at the local level. It would seem you haven't learned much from our discussion.
No,I can't improve on it, no reason to even try!
Because our rights are being taken away. The world see's Obama as a celebrity. But his experience is almost zero on world affairs and even U.S. affairs.
He is now trying to control our media by attacking a news network that doesn't agree with him. This is very unusual.
Don't let his smiling face and great speeches fool you.
They are different people and the latter are just sore losers.
Nothing. Just a continuing reminder that their side lost. They haven't made peace with that yet.
That's not entirely true. Many tend to think we act like a bunch of animals, and enjoy ridiculing us when we do. You could argue they're a variation of the sore losers who are constantly complaining about Obama stateside.
Who's doing the whining now? This sounds like Jr. High girls when they come home and say that the teacher hates them because they got them in trouble.
Obamatites whine that some people "hate" the president because they oppose him. May be it's not possible for them to oppose someone, but not hate them. But I don't know anyone personally (and I mean "anyone") who hates Obama or wishes him ill will, to my knowledge. Adults can oppose others, yet bear them no animus. May be this is not possible for Obama supporters, but I do it all the time.
A bioterrorism attack is more apparent now than there ever was, and it is not because Obama is the President of the United States. The vulnerability has always been there. It will always be there considering the society we all live in. Our world is more globally connected than at any time in the history of the world. So if we are going to assess this situation correctly--we must first not hold anyone responsible for any lack of preparedness.
Also, there has always been terrorist (terrorism) 'around' us throughout history. Just so you are aware of this. I am getting tired of individuals trying to place blame to situations or causes beyond any of our control. Obama can/could have the best person appointed for the job--and America or anywhere else in the world could still be attacked.
Ok but this CONGRESSIONAL REPORT states that Obama DOES NOT have the best person for the job haha
Read the report before you post worthless information. It clearly states that Clinton and Bush had way more qualified people to run this position.
And the report comvinced the [people ....not
It just came out today. Man, read it before you talk about things.
You are so clueless. And if you are an American, you should read it and BE CONCERNED.
You are so un-American, it's not even funny. Take your freeloading attitude somewhere else.
Tim, she's not an American, she's from New Zealand.
Ooooops haha that explains why she has no clue about the issues, huh?
Now I kinda feel bad.
What you fail to realize. There is already a response system in place/enforce to handle these types of emergencies/natural or man-made. Preparedness and early response is a responsibility of local level government. Because if anything happens, it is the local emergency preparedness and response that answers the call first. There is a system in place. So your argument here is invalid.
Just fyi- I am a Masters Degree student in Homeland Security--Public Health and Bioterrorism. So ask me any questions you may like.
I'm sure there is a system in place for everything but let's prepare NOT to use the system with an attack.
I think that is what the report is saying. Why use the system when we don't have to or at least try not to?
He clearly doesn't have someone in charge of bioterrorism that is qualified as the presidents before him.
There is. It does not matter who is in charge. The decisions start at the local level. Anyway--if there is a disaster response of that magnitude--FEMA is in charge of the emergent situation.
Oh ok..so the congressional report is wrong. My bad. Glad your degree figured it out.
No, it is purely common sense.
Sounds like you'll make a great member of Obama's administration! No experience needed
Try again at what? You are the one saying the Congressional Report is wrong.
I can't argue that. You think it's wrong. I don't. Next issue please.
What you don't seem to get is that the arms should be running the body not the brain!
Sure there is a local system in place, but few places take such plans seriously. The facility I used to work for was one of only about three organizations that participated in a mass casualty simulation run by our local fire and police departments along with our local two hospitals. The only reason we did it was because it was a JHACO requirement to participate in something like that once a year.
Did you see the documentary on Rick Rescorla? He was at the Twin Towers in 1993 and while researching the vulnerabilities of the Towers to another attack stumbled on using airplanes as giant flying bombs. He worked security for Morgan Stanley and drilled and drilled his people in evacuation. Most people didn't take it seriously but Rescorla was adamant about constant drilling.
Because of him it's estimated that 3,000 people lived who otherwise might have died, especially when the WTC managers were telling people to stay in the buildings. Riscorla died in WTC 2 still trying to get people out.
No matter how much the authorities try, it's only people like Riscorla who can do much of anything when things like this hit. Most people treat guys like him as kooks or nutjobs, at least until the bodies start hitting the floor, then while most people stand around shocked and unbelieving, the Riscorlas of the world spring into action, saving lives.
Fantastic, thank you for sharing! This is what I mean. Proper preparedness is the key here. Thank you.
Yes, I've heard of him. People did think Riscorla was overdoing it but he was right to be scared after the first Twin Towers attack. He was one of the few who knew what was really happening.
He was a veteran of the British military and then volunteered for our service, he served in Vietnam and was at least awarded the Bronze star. A real hero not a false messiah like Obama!
Silver Star and Purple Heart
Silver Star and Bronze Star with oak cluster. He also fought at Ia Drang. He truly was a soldier's soldier.
There is a course on Homeland security? I think I will take my brothers word for what is happening before I take the word of a student! Oh yeah, he actually works for Homeland Security he doesn't study it!
You are getting tired of the blame being thrown around? I bet Bush is too! Yes, Obama can and will be held responsible for any terrorist attack, he has made it harder for us to gather intelligence! Or do you want to blame Bush for that Obama decision?
We've had terrorists living among us for years way before Obama was here.
He's the devils advocate and is trying to bring his marxist attitude to our beloved America. He wants to destroy the Constitution and all that America is. He will be bringing martial law into affect as well. There are several terrorist cells all across America, why we don't break them up is beyond me.
I'm wondering if there's a way we can send him to the EU. They seem to like him so much there. Perhaps Obama can be the EU president for life and we can have a do-over election.
Obama is a clown. He will ruin it for future Black candidates, unfortunately, who will be way more qualified than this clown.
I've tried to give him chances but with every "promise" comes disappointment and nothing gets done.
He has his hands in a million cookie jars. And it's not Bush's fault for Obama's healthcare issues within his own party, his failed Olympic bid (that he shouldn't have even worried about), his concessions with Russia and now bioterrorism missteps.
We are in trouble.
I admit, I'm not happy he won the election, but I would be happier if he would show some leadership. And, stay off the d*mn TV! Who wants to see the Pres. every week? Next thing we know there will be 20 foot posters of him popping up in every neighborhood and every downtown. Hail Obama!
I think he'll be a lame duck president for the rest of his term. I don't think anyone will be happy in the end.
There is nothing worse than a cry baby or poor sport!
He won like , 10/11 mths ago
Get over it already
Get over what? That he's destroying everything America stands for? Oh wait, you have no idea what that is so I'll just drop it - my bad
Ohhh for a moment ya had me excited ,hes trying to educate America ,um plesase dont drop that one
Go back to school ,yea well one of many
Quit borrowing money ,another one
Quit interefering and intruding on other countries governments.
Reduce oil consumption (USA leads the world)
Take care of your sick and veterans
Educate your young
What do you use for a news source, the White House? I don't think you have a grasp of the situation...at all
Quit borrowing money?! One of his first legislation that he signed put us in the hole for at least 2 trillion dollars. That is one lesson he's not capable of teaching anybody
Would you have prefered all of the United States move their businesses to China or Europe?? instead!!
Republicans are good at pointin=g the finger ,but Ive yet to see them offer any constructive ideas...kinda immature and familiar pattern...
Well we dont want Obama or democrats to be in , but we dont have any answers either.....( what happened when Bush had 8 yrs?)....homes foreclosed, rich lil wall st boys played with billions, real estate went belly up and the International market quit investing...the middle class looked at migrating...the elderly just got sick n died....geeze you guys have short memories
If ya gonna post anything ,why not be proactive ,for a start , USA''s motor industry and possibly once the backbone of industry
What would you do to save it?
Okay you've contradicted yourself. You said that Obama is teaching us how to now go into debt then you think it's okay to do it if businesses don't go overseas? That doesn't make any sense. I would prefer he stimulated the economy by cutting corporate taxes, income taxes and slashing government budget but that never occurs to the Feds.
As for our elderly getting sick and died, it was France's elderly that died by the thousands because of a heat wave, under their socialized medicine. That didn't happen here.
As for the real estate, that fiasco was started because the Dems allowed the agency to continue making loans to people that couldn't afford it. Bush tried to do something about it but he was ignored.
Misha is right, you aren't making sense and even worse you are ignorant of what was going on and making assumptions.
Oh geeze you need to reread what I posted, you got it wrong and accused me wrongly...
Yea guess all the newspapers around the world got it wrong too ,silly me...
I dont even see Misha here ??...but thats ok if he or anyone disagrees with me ...I dont have to have someone agree with me to voice my thoughts do you ?
Seriously, what are you talking about?? Ask your clown president that question.
Elderly got sick and died?
You have seriously lost your credibility in this forum. You are just pulling random stuff out of the air.
You and the "70%" majority votes who voted for Obama should move to another planet. Everything you say is wrong or a stretch haha
Ok so has Obama accomplished any of those goals? NO. Does every president try those same goals, YES.
You are out of your league in this argument. You're wrong on your stats by a long shot and you point out things that EVERY president tries to do. haha
Hmmm, I thought it was blame those that came before you when you aren't getting the job done. The borrowing money is a good one. Do as I say, not as I do, right?
He sure is trying to educate America, teaching us how to roll over and be an appeaser and become a good commie and bowing to sheiks.
Don't you love those in other countries telling us to get over it? We usually get over it in a different way than those people.
Yeah, especially those who think the Constitution is a "treaty"
I read that the other day. Facts don't seem to stop her from posting.
I pay taxes , I have every right to an opinion , just as you do.
I guess you could say the same thing to those that opposed Hitler's election...."don't be such a cry baby...get over it. Our Fuehrer won fair and square."
No one is boohooing over the fact that the system works and that he was elected lawfully. What is being lamented is his dangerous lack of qualifications to serve as the nation's president.
So if the system is works , how was he able to make it thus far.
Cant say it works fine , then complain when the guy wins that one didnt vote for, thats being a crybaby
Nothing wrong with complaining, that's free speech, and the libs did it for a long time. Those independents that voted for Obama were led by the media's love affair for him and the loud libs who constantly complained about Bush. As Texan said, they voted with emotion...in hindsight, a dangerous proposition, especially when they placed their trust in someone with nearly no experience and questionable associations.
Not at all. There is no inconsistency in saying "the system works" yet "we still have a problem." The electoral system worked: the President was elected by lawful process. Those that had the plurality vote did a better job of raising money, garnering support, and building momentum than the other side. That's the way it should be.
However, the system doesn't give us, de facto, a qualified person to hold the office. We still have a problem: Obama's record suggest that he is inadequate for the job of keeping the nation safe. That's a national problem and no amount of "go suck your thumb" comments is going to make that problem go away.
Already his rules of engagement have gotten a lot more of our guys killed in Afghanistan than when Bush was in office. And now he's waffling on sending in more troops. If we need more troops to win then send them, otherwise pull out, but don't make the lives already lost in vain.
Was that one of the 'I think the skys green' kinda opinions cuz where are your facts???
Obama’s Rules Of Engagement In Afghanistan Costing Our Troops Lives
Four Marines died yesterday in Afghanistan when the Taliban laid a trap:
Four U.S. Marines died Tuesday when they walked into a well-laid ambush by insurgents in Afghanistan’s eastern Kunar province. Seven Afghan troops and an interpreter for the Marine commander also died in the ambush and the subsequent battle, which lasted seven hours.
Three American service members and 14 Afghan security force members were wounded.
It was the largest number of American military trainers to die in a single incident since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion.
The battle took place around the remote hamlet of Gangigal, in a valley about six miles from the Pakistani border, after local elders invited the U.S. and Afghan forces for a meeting.
American officers said there was no doubt that they’d walked into a trap, as the insurgents were dug in at the village, and had preset their weapons and their fields of fire.
It was a trap alright….but one they could of extradited themselves out of if not for the rules of engagement laid out by Obama’s General, General Stanley McChrystal:
Airstrikes by coalition forces in Afghanistan have dropped dramatically in the three months Gen. Stanley McChrystal has led the war effort there, reflecting his new emphasis on avoiding civilian casualties and protecting the population.
NATO fixed-wing aircraft dropped 1,211 bombs and other munitions during the past three months — the peak of the fighting season — compared with 2,366 during the same period last year, according to military statistics. The nearly 50% decline in airstrikes comes with an influx of more than 20,000 U.S. troops this year and an increase in insurgent attacks.
The shift is the result of McChrystal’s new directives, said Air Force Col. Mark Waite, an official at the air operations center in southwest Asia. Ground troops are less inclined to call for bombing or strafing runs, though they often have an aircraft conduct a “show of force,” a flyby to scare off insurgents, or use planes for surveillance, Waite said.
The Marines who were killed were not the ones less inclined to call for a bombing run, in fact they were depending on it to get them out of the trap….and none came:
We walked into a trap, a killing zone of relentless gunfire and rocket barrages from Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.
“We will do to you what we did to the Russians,” the insurgent’s leader boasted over the radio, referring to the failure of Soviet troops to capture Ganjgal during the 1979-89 Soviet occupation.
Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away.
U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren’t near the village.
“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We’ve lost today,” Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters.
While the enemy was directly responsible for their deaths, those rules of engagement, and those leaders who refused to send help also have blood on their hands.
Don't you know that slagging Obama is the new sport? We have a whole three years to do it.
Just because I dont agree with your politics , I shouldnt post ..an what was that about the Constituation Texan...sounds hypocrital to me
That was about you comparing our constitution to a treaty!
Do you even know the difference?
No I didnt think so.
Do you have anything to add that makes any sense?
Do yo Texan? other than to say you dont like Obama, or that you dont care what other countries think...doesnt make any sense to me either.
Personally I feel that the media needs to stop putting our business on the streets I realize we need to know but they are also the cause of our military being killed in Iraq because they had to tell the WORLD our location. We as Americans should know what is happening but the media is making it far worse for us then so many realize.
So you must be poor and don't want to work hard to get rich. So just take from the rich, right? Figures.
Why on earth should I give my hard-earned wealth and success to someone who is neither as smart nor as energetic as I am? I worked my butt off to get where I am - they can do the same.
Id hardly call tax breaks working your ass off, but hey invest it like China does (in America) lol
You are a completely ignorant, aren't you? Yes, he gives tax breaks to poor people like you and raise the taxes on the rich.
You are so ignorant. It's people like you that voted for Obama because you wanted to be apart of history to have a Black president.
You had no idea what the ISSUES were. You just wanted "change." Oh, you'll get change alright.
What on earth are you still doing in this country then?
Why not move to Monaco, Andorra or the like, where there is no income tax whatsoever?
I'm an American - a real one - not some pansy ass who thinks it's ok to mooch off of others. You see, and listen very closely now because I wouldn't want you to misunderstand, hard work actually pays off - it's associated with something that is, now pay attention, really really important in American culture . . . it's called PRIDE.
Instead of Obama's picture, shouldn't it be Karl Marx?
Surprised you called Obama a fairy. I don't think he's gay
There is a youtube video that disputes his alleged hetero status!
I always knew Michelle wore the real pants in the family.
Oh wow...well, I'm not going to side with that one haha
Cant you guys follow posts properly either...guess not, see go back to school is a great idea dontya think
Oh Im tired of this gang mentality
I asked for some republican proactive ideas and got none.
Feels like im stuck in a school yard.
I also think many of you will find it hard to celebrate Thanksgiving this year too-shame that
Well you are ganged up on because you are wrong with your facts. You started by saying Obama won the election with a clear majority at 70%. That told us you didn't know what you were talking about.
I didn't know you were from New Zealand so that explains why you don't know some of the issues. My bad.
Kiwi, you don't make sense, that's why nobody can follow your posts. And Americans celebrate Thanksgiving regardless of who's president.
Communists are teaching the same. Did they succeeded? No!
Misha tell them.
I can see not much (if anything) has changed here in the old Politics forum.
So let me get this straight.
The reason the US did not suffer a bioterrorism attack under Clinton or Bush is because both presidents had appointed someone qualified to deal with a bioterrorism attack?
Um, we suffered a pretty major "regular" terrorism attack under Bush. Do you believe that 9/11 occurred because Bush had not appointed a competent anti-terrorist plane attacks cabinet member or (dare I say the c word) czar?
-sigh- Hi Mom--brilliant reference! Thank you.
I'll guarantee you this...if we have a bioterrorism attack and Obama doesn't have anyone qualified for the post, who do you think will get blitzed over it?
Terrorism changed our worldview on 9/11. No one ever blamed Bush for that attack because it was something no one ever thought imaginable.
But, now, terrorism is our main threat and if the current president, no matter who they are, can't protect us from that main threat, then they should be blamed. Plain and simple.
I know I would've felt way more secure with McCain as president when it comes to my security.
The threat of terrorism has always been here. It is just 9/11 made us know that America is also vulnerable to attack. Terrorism is a global fighting effort. Not just in this country.
Of course it's always been there but we were never the direct target of it. 9/11 hit us on our own territory from people on the other side of the world.
But without the U.S. leading the global fight, we will be doomed. No one cares about us, honestly. Even Israel will protect it's own interests over us.
We have to lead the fight in terrorism and it does start by cleaning it up in other countries like Afghanistan, sadly.
We have to be the global police of terrorism to save our lives.
You are wrong again. Timothy McVeigh. Ted Kaczynski. The first occurring in 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York. The United States has an ample history of domestic terrorism. I would be happy to supply some examples here for you. Starting in the early part of the 20th century.
I didn't say domestic terrorism. WTC was caused by outsiders attacking us in our home country. That is what I meant.
You just love trying to point everyone's "wrongness" including Congress...haha.
You have all the answers yet you ignored my post about Phoenix.
Phoenix has never taught me nor the state of Arizona what to do in case of a bioterrorism attack.
I like how you just omitted a response on that piece of info.
But the 'outsiders' come from within. I am not pointing out anyone's wrongness. So is it the State of Phoenix, AZ's fault you do not understand how to take care of yourself and family if there is a bioterrorism attack? If you would like more information. Please consult your States Division of Emergency Management. There is planning and preparedness available for you to assist your concerns and needs.
"I am not pointing out anyone's wrongness."
Really? I guess all those times you said Wrong again" was our imagination?
Wait are you being serious??? Of course it's Arizona and/or Phoenix's fault because it was YOU who is defending Obama's hiring of someone inexperienced in bioterrorism by saying there is a system in place at the local level.
Hahaha...that is from you!!! If the local level has failed to tell me what to do during a bioterrorism attack, then its their fault, according to YOU!! lol
You are talking in circles.
The 1993 bombing was due to radical Islam. You did forget to mention the Weather Underground. Billy Ayers was one of the founders of that organization and he's donated to Papa Obama and even served on several academic boards with Obama.
Actually bombings in the US go back several decades before the 20th century. The Haymarket affair is the first one I can think of off the top of my head.
Most of the domestic terrorists were left leaning.
Thanks A Texan; no I did not forget to mention that individual group. I only mentioned that one particular case because TimTurner's concern of foreign attack on US soil. Great example. Thanks for mentioning that one as well
Rather than say left leaning, I'd say all radical terrorists were for the destruction of the Constitution and the imposition of some sort of autocracy, whether it be communist or fascist.
I wouldn't say that, those terrorist acts done in the 60's were about changing the war mindset not the Constitution!
Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Un … ganization
Much like Progressives throughout history, they used the war to justify pushing their radical agenda on the US. And now their golden boy is in the White House.
Was the Weather underground the only domestic terrorists in the country then?
Nope, but I believe many of them were influence by Moscow Center. Think about it, if you were looking to destabilize your greatest enemy, what better way to do it than by suborning the peace movement. That's one of the reasons the FBI started CONINTELPRO.
For a counter-example, look at how we suborned Solidarity in an effort to weaken the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. How many Solidarity members came to power when Communism fell? How many Communists do you think we have on the Hill and in the White House now?
No problem, Tex, I've spent quite some time studying the Radical Left of the 1960's and their antics make me want to puke. Did you know that a remnant of the Old Right, the guys who opposed FDR during his long autocratic reign, actually allied with the Radical Left in the beginning? They broke if off, of course, as the Radical Left became more and more Communist. The Old Right wanted to restore the Constitution, not destroy it.
My only comment is - Chairman Mao would be proud of this administration
I have got lot of responses to my post here.
Some of them are speaking that President Obama has no experience in world affairs and even in US affairs. Did the Citizens voted for him without knowing his inexperience?
People were thinking him as an angel with magic wander who can solve their problems overnight. But this is not the case. No one can alone change economy of America.
Credit culture is weaved around people of America since many years by the bankers with vested interest. They befooled citizens and minted money. They got bankrupt and obtained bail out plan from the Government. they did not lose anything but the common American lost a lot.
There are lot of hubs pointing to root cause of American financial problem and economic crisis. those were written well before crisis rocked.
Have some one read those? If yes, probably you have got your answer.
Unfortunately, yes, people did vote Obama with only 3 years of public office.
I don't know if he is the LEAST experience person ever voted as president but he is definitely one of the least experienced.
He won because people wanted "change" but failed to look at his record and his past.
Well I would say the media also helped in not keeping the public informed. I was amazed at the news that wasn't being released by the mainstream media.
They were too busy getting shivers up their collective legs.
Yeah and it seems the worldwide media is doing the same thing. Not truly educating their countryman and showing Obama as a celebrity and/or savior.
The writing was on the wall but too many had bought into the "hate Bush" meme. And ran with their emotions.
Most voted for him anyway.
Again, voters let emotion rather than logic rule
And it continues.
And it will be continued if common Americans do not educate themselves in political matters and economic affairs.
The days has gone when they can sleep in soft bed with sweet dreams.
They have to woke up again for their own interest even for their own survival.
When communists and materialists infecting the country this is what happen. Troubles. All become money hungry to get rich overnight. We have a moral problem.
Obama is President, no one is going to change it. We can argue all we want, but the guy is there to stay, as long as he keeps his hands out of trouble, which I do not doubt he'll do - he won't do anything worthy of impeachment.
He is cutting defense across the board, ask anyone who works for a military contractor, the Army has cut numerous contracts because the administration wants them cut, yet they want more soldiers to go fight. The Navy and Army are not renewing contracts with many of their contractors - big companies like Lockheed Martin, BAE, General Dynamics, Boeing - to name of few. With the cuts, hundreds of people are loosing jobs. Another huge round of cuts will be made within one of these companies over the next few weeks, there could be upwards of 5,000 people loosing their jobs.
I remember one of the reason's my daughter and all her friends and thousands of college students voted for him, he promised something like a $5,000 credit for college students, have we heard anything about it since his election, nope, and I CAN guarantee you, these college kids are shaking their heads, they thought he was for them. He spoke to the first time voter, and those kids listened.
His priority will be healthcare until he is done with his 4 years. Forget about the unemployed, homeless, our economy, etc.
I don't want to be affiliated with any party anymore.
This was great fun everyone! I enjoyed learning from all of you. I have to go now. Not that it matters much, but I enjoyed this debate.
Just FYI everyone, there is a State Emergency Planning division in every town--please contact your local office to see where you can help in an emergency. They offer free emergency preparedness training, many of the courses are certified courses! Take charge in your communities to better prepare yourselves and others because it all depends on what each individual would do at the time of an emergency.
Thanks again everyone!
You think appointing a bioterrorism expert is going to halt bioterrorism? You do realize how easy it would be for anyone to start a pandemic (especially suicide bombers) if they have the appropriate virus, right? An expert isn't going to stop that.
Bush left us vulnerable to planes...
Obama > Bush.
P.S. Independent Turner? Your actions argue differently. When was the last time you voted for a democrat?
Never if he was smart. The Dems are controlled by Communists and the Republicans are controlled by fascists. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
That's what I've said for a long time. I tend to side left, but I acknowledge that the best country is run from the center... good balance of both.
If you're running against McCain/Palin.... any day.
Hahaha....Ok, I have 3 years to prepare...more like 2 to get my name out there.
Palin is definitely going to run, I bet.
No, a stupid woman who could possibly run the country makes me nervous. I'm dating a strong woman, hah...
A few months ago, they did a poll of 3,000 Americans and had a Obama/Palin election and Obama won by 6%.
That number is very small to me.
But, you have to admit, it's better than a stupid woman who can't run the country...
The best country is one that is run without interference from the political class. A choice between communism and fascism isn't a choice at all.
These choices are fictitious in the post-modern world. But alas we cant dispense with politics. Aristotle had some interesting observations on the middle way.
Hey I am just a Dutch man living in Texas... seems to me it is true what people in europe think about most americans... hehehe
No seriously (mmm) ...
If people still think and believe the Alice in Wonderland story of elections and that "WE the people" still have a saying in politics.. maybe you should think again...
Let me drop this question and see WHO can answer this by doing some good research first !!
- Are most countries(and government bodies) in this world CORPORATIONS????
(tip.. the employees of a corporation do NOT get to elect the CEO of the corporation!!!)
Very astute! But what makes you think some Americans are unaware of this concept?
This is such old news. And what is one little man suppose to do against the force of history. The global nation is going to happen regardless of what President we have in the White House.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 1915638412
What do you mean by 'What' here?
This is the era of globalization. Most of the state nations are under the big umbrella of WTO. No one can stay alone without loosing a lot.
America is the most powerful country (In terms of Military), biggest consumer and highest GDP.
President America can not stay aloof from matters of overseas. Former Presidents paved the path by poking nose unnecessarily in overseas matters.
yes, America can not live alone without interfering in international matters but it has to discern where to go and where not to.
This will be in the best interest of the American citizens and America.
Thanks for your correction.
What does it mean then? I want to learn.
It's simple. Think of what defines a nation and see how many of those things the WTO represents.
Much of them. nation states have lost their economic sovereignty after WTO.
A nation doesn't lose its sovereignty because it signs a treaty or enters into voluntary agreements.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona … ign+nation
Large number of political and economic analysts criticized GATT and WTO for the reason. Large number of countries forced to enter into this treaty.
Many of the third world countries were unwilling to join the treaty but they were compelled by the powerful nations to do so for this and that reasons.
I find it odd that Republicans complain about Obama's record on terrorism when there hasn't been an attack under his command for the first ten months, a feat George Bush couldn't accomplish
If Bill Clinton had done his job , we would not be talking about this . He had Osama In the crosshairs and did not pull the trigger !
Best guess is there hasn't yet been a terrorist attack on U.S. soil thus far on Obama's watch because the Terror Types are still in shock. You know, figure it couldn't be THIS easy, gotta be a trap....
Unfortunately, the cheese always draws the rats sooner or later, whether they wiggle their nose whiskers suspiciously first or not.
Uh, we weren't at war when we were attacked. 9/11 had nothing to do with who was in office at the time.
All this talk about Obama and terrorist attacks on US soil.
Didn't something known as 9/11 happen under the Republican watch?
If there is an attack, then what - do you score the Democratic death toll vs. the Republican?
You do terrorists a favor by living in fear and continually bringing up these things.
Vigilance is required but freedom defeats terror. So be free and get on with your lives.
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