The MSM has a decades'-long history of lies. They also have a serious problem with who have little or no knowledge or understanding of the subjects they write about. (That's putting it charitably. It is hard to see how journalists covering real estate, business, and finance could really be so ignorant. Kinda looks like they are just shills.)
One example that stands out in my mind is the way the MSM was hyping real estate right in the teeth of the real estate bust. Alternative media had been on top of the impending bust for several years before it happened. In the case of the real estate bust, it kinda makes you think that those who control the MSM were looking for bagholders. Being well aware that the whole scheme was about to go tits up, they were eager to unload their bad investments on an uninformed (read "deliberately misinformed") public.
You also never saw any MSM coverage of the massive frauds the lenders committed.
The MSM's lack of analysis of this and just about all other issues is also troubling.
Alternative media had also been warning of the impending financial crisis of 2008 for a couple of years before it happened, as well as publishing data showing the horrendous state of the banks' balance sheets.
The MSM's response to both of these crises was basically, "No one could have foreseen...."
You may have forgotten how the MSM presented poll after poll showing that Hillary was sure to win the election.
There are many more examples. I'm too pressed for time right now to do a lot of searching to document them.
Not sure what this long drawn out unrelated post has to do with Mr. Trump's Un-Christian adulterous one night stand with a voluptuous pornography actress named Stormy Daniels and her attorney Michael Avenatti who is torturing Donald by the day with shocking, new criminal evidence against him and his sloppy lawyer Michael Cohen, but if you're truly interested in somebody who is a pathological liar, somebody who could care less about the truth, morals, values, Christianity or this country, look no further than the stooge in the white house who tries as hard as he can every day to insult his own fans:
Mr. Trump could be impeached on these grounds alone:
"President Trump lied more than 3,000 times in 466 days"
(CNN)The Washington Post's Fact-Checker blog has been keeping a strict count of President Donald Trump's many misstatements, untruths and outright lies. And, over the weekend at a rally in Michigan, Trump hit a(nother) milestone: He topped 3,000 untrue or misleading statements in 466 days in office.
That means that, on average, Trump says 6.5 things that aren't true a day. Every. Single. Day. (Trump is actually picking up the pace when it comes to not telling the truth; he has averaged nine untruths or misleading statements a day over the past two months, according to the Post's count.)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/politics … index.html
Sounds like you're of the opinion that only Christians, or at a minimum those that espouse the Christian mores, be allowed in the White House. Specifically only those people that agree with the discriminatory, demeaning and perverted Christian ideas on sex.
You are aware that we decided 200 years ago that Christianity does not rule our government?
WoW: Breaking BIG**********: Judge rules Trump to be deposed: Trump to be Deposed: Trump to be Deposed:
Judge says Trump can be deposed in Summer Zervos defamation case
A judge ruled on Tuesday that President Donald Trump can be deposed in connection with a lawsuit brought by Summer Zervos, a former contestant on “The Apprentice” who accused Donald Trump of sexually assaulting her in 2007 and is now suing the president for defamation.
Judge Jennifer Schecter of the New York State Supreme Court set out a discovery schedule for the case, despite Trump attorney Marc Kasowitz’s attempts to delay the matter pending appeals.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawyers … d=55668097
Well, all Trump has to do is admit he called her a liar, and pay a chunk of cash to this woman. And he should, I mean she got nothing at least the SD got some money. Although she will most likely be paying that and a lot more to Cohen. However, I think Trump will fight the case and win.
I kind of wonder why Bill Clinton's actual rape victims won't get their own Stormy Daniels day , do you suppose it's because liberals have no self diagnosis ability for extreme hypocrisy ?
They won't answer this one I'll bet !
Jake ?
Randy ?
Prettypanther ?
Credence ?
Peoplepower ?
Horse, Bill Clinton actually raped and got so rough with Bodwick that he bit her lips... He and his wife attempted to destroy any woman that made accusations. And most liberals just can't seem to comprehend how hypocritical they are for excepting these two cheap grifters as people to respect and look up too. The Clinton have escaped the law for many years. I truly hope they are held accountable for all of their crimes. and end up in the same jail cell. Now that would be justice. And I am sure the worst punishment either of them could imagine.
And no Horse, they won't answer you. They can't, they have not got the ability to see what is right in front of them. Expect a glib remark or a quick deflection to a far away subject.
So, that's not what this discussion is about: Put on your law cap and go prosecute them: According to fox fake channel, both Hillary and Bill live in New York and reportedly share the presidency alternating every other week: Hillary is president 3 days, and Bill 4 days, they bounce the grand child on their knees in between:
But here's the real deal, everyone knows if we still have laws, Donny Boy is gone, he's Trump Toast, even 'Batty' Rudy Giuliani is preparing for his impeachment but it will be much more severe for this traitor: A judge today ordered Donny must be deposed in the Summer Zervos defamation case and he can't use the 'I'm too busy excuse' because he's the laziest old man to ever live in the white house:
HOLY Wow !!!! Do you know what this means? Think about it for a few seconds, Donny, the guy who apparently just recently had another hallucination about spies in his campaign, will be subjected to questions under oath for hours with the penalty of perjury hanging over his swelled up orange head: He must do something he's never done before, TELL the Truth !!!!:He can't lie, my God what poetic justice:
Judge: Trump can be deposed in Summer Zervos lawsuit
"A judge ruled Tuesday that President Donald Trump can be deposed in a defamation lawsuit brought last year by Summer Zervos, a former contestant on "The Apprentice” who says Trump kissed and groped her after she appeared on the show."
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/ … uit-624186
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrpmv_zOa0k
Breaking BIG Now ********* WoW: Stormy sues Mr. Trump, Cohen and Davidson for 'Conspiracy':
God only knows how many detrimental law suits both civil and criminal will emerge as the special master uncovers and deciphers the trove of evidence from the FBI raid of Mr. Trump's sloppy attorney Michael Cohen: Michael Avenatti also seems to have the inside track into damning evidence against Mr. Trump, evidence which he claims Donald will never survive, and if what we've seen to date is an example of said evidence, he's absolutely right on target:
In this round of legal actions we have what are said to be correspondence between Cohen and Davidson which Avenatti claims to implicate Mr. Trump as a 'wiseman': This evidence he says supports a 'conspiracy' to Stormy Daniel's detriment: UNREAL what is being uncovered and now we know why Avenatti is making the claim that Trump can never survive: UNREAL:
Correspondence excerpt:
"By doing tomorrow you just create another news cycle instead of putting an end to this one," he wrote, according to the suit.
But Cohen then said that "the wise men" believed Daniels' story was "dying" and that it wouldn't be "smart" for her to do interviews."
COMPLETE Story Here: WoW:
http://www.businessinsider.com/stormy-d … tti-2018-6
Jake as always you do not have your facts straight. Is president trump not being sued in this lawsuit.
"Breaking BIG Now ********* WoW: Stormy sues Mr. Trump, Cohen and Davidson for 'Conspiracy':"
"The pornographic film actress Stephanie Clifford sued President Trump’s fixer, Michael D. Cohen, and her own former lawyer on Wednesday, making public a set of text messages discussing efforts to quash the story of her alleged affair with Mr. Trump as it emerged early this year." NYT. June 7, 2018
Please read the article it will educate you on the facts No wow here... Jake the man she is suing encouraged her not to break her non-disclosure agreement and had filed for her to be released from the binding legal contract. Creepy Porn lawyer talked her into breaking the agreement. Which will have her paying Cohen a ton of cash when the lawsuit is looked judged.
Breaking BIG Now ********* WoW: Stormy sues Mr. Trump, Cohen and Davidson for 'Conspiracy':
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/us/p … wsuit.html
Well, you're just inaccurate again: What you don't seem to understand Sharlee01 is the fact that according to reports of court filings and verbal declarations, aside from a couple of other sleazy clients including Sean 'welfare queen' Hammity, it appears as if sloppy Cohen has had essentially one steady client for the past decade named Mr. Trump: Cohen up until at least a couple months ago according to public evidence, was still using the title and I paraphrase, 'Personal Attorney to the Trump Organization' which indicates he's working on Mr. Trump's behalf and that's damning:
As we've already seen, the FBI raid on Cohen's properties is huge and nobody really understands the gravity of the legal jeopardy your hero Donny Boy is actually exposed to: The days and weeks ahead I'm confident will continue to be alarming as untold detrimental revelations emerge:
The sooner Donny is removed and sent directly to prison, the sooner we can begin to salvage what's remaining off this tattered nation once know as the United States of America:
Breaking BIG ******* WoW
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 677993002/
" nobody really understands the gravity of the legal jeopardy your hero Donny Boy is actually exposed to"
Well, at least it is certain YOU don't understand the level of legal jeopardy there!
Jake you have completely deflected from your comment I replied to. When you are ready to refocus on the subject I will be glad to reply. Otherwise, it's not my job to lesson you in why Cohen was only working for Trump. If you knew anything about large corporations you might realize that it is not unusual for an attorney to only have one client, In fact, Cohen has had this arrangement for many years with the Trump. he has for many years been on a monthly retainer.
Jake, once again one has to be charged with a crime to end up in jail?
Takes a very large magazine to spank that!
And can you imagine him in the nude, Diane? That whacky WH physician apparently saw him naked and gave him a very generous report on his health.
Obviously a fake report, from from true. Right? Because you KNOW better even though there are exactly zero examinations which found otherwise.
Sure, it's obviously a fake report, Dan. Haven't you been keeping up with the scandals surrounding the fine doctor. Spanky's first doctor admitted his patient dictated his own health report after Spanky's thugs raided his office and took all of his files. This was on the real news and probably not Faux News.
The last WH physician Jackson is being accused of drinking on the job as well as abusing his privileges before his untimely departure. So yes, taking one look at Spanky's tremendous rear end--not to mention the side view--I truly believe the report was a piece of creative writing at the very best.
So disgusting to see you insult DR. Jackson. All because you can... What a small mind.
Yeah Randy, I don't think a doctor, even a quack like Jackson would go through the emotional trauma of making Mr. Trump disrobe for a medical examination:
He probably just gave him a 2 minute 'visual' inspection with crappy looking Chinese made suit and tie in place, made him cough once and then let Donny write his own report on a bubble gum wrapper: How else could he say Donny Boy was in tip top when he really has heart disease, high cholesterol, suffers from obesity and who knows how many STD HeeBee JeeBees and Siffy Wiffys that might have not been disclosed:
And what's wrong with his skin pigment? Orangey with purpleish gray bulging eye bags and lips is abnormal for a human being unless you're some kind of goldfish hybrid:
Are you claiming he's not a perfect physical specimen, Jake? Fake News!!
I just thought about the accessories that go with those little hands. $130K should have been squared.
Utterly absurd and disturbingly misogynist: What has this collapsing country become other than a 3rd rate sewer dictatorship?
Imagine this, I know it's hard to believe, but 'Batty' Rudy Giuliani, an elderly gross creepy guy who looks like this:
Is now trying to render judgment on the physical appearance of a beautiful woman like this:
Somebody ought to do something about the Shock Jock political commentators here , If it wasn't for the first grade Trump criticism mentality , they wouldn't have ANY political offerings whatsoever . But I suppose they are evolving ; from never Trumpers
-Orange hair
-Trump fat -shaming
-Skin color insults
-Hand size insults
-Trump family insults
-Derogatory insults
-Policy ignorance
-Trumps wife insults
-Trump daughter insults
Not that it bothers Trump much but the left would have had many emotional melt downs had Obama been treated the way Trump and especially his family is treated , It leads us to fully realize that Liberals have absolutely no respect for ALL women , for ANY family or the office of the presidency , oh well "What goes around ,always comes back around again "!
Horse, you are feeding into it. I come back every few days and it continues. If I get depressed, I'm going to check out this porno thread. I don't want to miss the next day.
If Trumpers would not respond, maybe the comedians would try their material out at a local comedy club.
ahorseback neglected to mention Donny's sickly looking purplish gray bulging eye bags and lips:
But strangely enough, I never hear him condemn Donny's disgraceful insults of just about everyone other than himself, and perhaps that's why Donny has opened himself up to the onslaught of legitimate criticisms:
I just hope for his sake Donny Boy is smart enough to keep his big mouth shut in prison, because either Mueller or Stormy or Cohen will soon have the distinct pleasure of sending him there, very soon:
My advise would be for him to maintain his weight of about 400 pounds too, don't go on a diet, he might want to discourage Bubba, not entice him:
I'm sure everyone feels for this disgraceful bozo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA
Your posts are morally similar to the comedians that insult Trumps family constantly and the hypocrites that support them , I feel for you though , the lack of political reality hits certain liberals very hard , it must be difficult to live on the dark side of knowing Trump will serve out his terms unhindered by your hatred , Trump actually couldn't care less about the lame insight from his resisters .
You guys'll be in jail before Trump ever will though .
Trumps bulletproof .
For a guy who doesn't care, he sure does spend a lot of time watching tv to see how he's being perceived.
Trumps one of those guys that sleeps about five hours a night , I think the perception that he watches too much Fox news is a ruse to make him look stupid. That's all .
He actually looks like he sleeps about 30 minutes a night and believe me, he doesn't 'look' stupid:
The world would be a much better and safer place if we had many more Anthony Bourdains and far less Trumps:
Anthony Bourdain's ? What are you talking about now ?
I love Anthony Bourdain. He has an amazing success story. It's too bad he couldn't overcome his demons.
[Raises glass to Anthony Bourdain.]
May he rest in peace.
We need more honest, straight shooter strong men and women of courage and character like Anthony Bourdain leading the USA instead of weak, mentally unstable, low life, cesspool mega-corrupt elite politicians like Mr. Trump who are afraid to serve in the military because his feet hurt and who sabotage this country damaging it beyond repair every single day, and who engage in adulterous one night stands with much younger porn actresses under false pretenses while his new wife is home with child:
Real Christians, not the Jerry Falwell Juniors of the world call that an abomination, unforgivable sin:
Stormy said Donny is 'generic' and unattractive and she should know about the former, we all know about the latter, and she essentially said the only reason she painfully endured the night with him was to get a spot on his crappy television show he promised her, a weird awkward show that seemed to sink in the ratings year after year:
My, my. Your idea of a staggering blow is to accuse someone of "fat shaming" women. News flash: Obesity is both unattractive and unhealthy, and almost everyone has at some time remarked on these objective facts. (People will generally cut you some slack on that when you're 70+ years old.)
As for Trump being described as "unattractive and generic" in the sack by some old whore: Meh. What this means is that some old whore thinks he's "unattractive and generic." Though I'm sure you believe that the failing to fulfill the expectations of old whores is an impeachable offense.
You also appear to be completely unfamiliar with the Viet Nam War era. Everyone who was able to avoid the draft did so. Every parent who was able to keep their sons from being drafted (usually by keeping them in college for the duration) did so. If Trump hadn't evaded the draft, I would consider him a moron.
If everybody avoided the draft during the Vietnam era we'd be flying the 'sickle and hammer', which is exactly where your orange hero is leading this collapsing country: 5 draft dodges, a genuine coward while John McCain sacrificed his health for you and us:
Most 71 year old individuals I know are not prone to a diet of strictly KFC and big macs like Donald apparently is hence his unattractive, flabby obese state of ailing physical health: They also get much more exercise than the laziest old man who ever polluted our oval office does:
They don't paint their faces orange or comb their back hairs up over the top of their heads either:
There are many attractive 70 year old men and women out there, it's just a fact that Donald isn't one of them and I feel for Stormy who endured a terrible night with him when she was in her twenties, spanking Donny and all: She deserves a few million for that heroic feat alone, aside from the defamation:
The Viet Nam tribute at the Capitol displays the names of thousands who did not draft dodge. I know several of them.
I know many who came back and had mental issues. All came back from an unpopular war and were not considered heroes. Black vets came back to deal with discrimination that didn't exist in a fox hole.
Hypocrisy rears its ugly head once Again , It's amazing that NOW Vietnam vets become the instant heroes of the left in this thread ? Right !............for a purpose though . This is exactly what I mean about the amazing and chameleon hypocrisy displayed at will by the amazing members here .
Most times they care so little about the troops.
?
Horse, please define a "liberal." Are Black people liberal by default?
My response was to the comment that everyone was a draft dodger.
fact
https://washington.org/DC-guide-to/viet … s-memorial
the wall
http://thewall-usa.com/
Black men did die or retrn from the war to their prior status.
Mohammed Ali was a very special case of a Black draft dodger. I don't know anything about others. Ali is pictured here along with multiple white draft dodgers.
https://www.historyandheadlines.com/10- … not-serve/
Not one person, regarddless of color, have I seen shouting patriotism, the flag, the anthem, etc., other than DJT.
That's fact.
I'm afraid you'll find that objections to people evading the draft during the Viet Nam War will gain very little traction among people who lived through that era. The vast majority of those who served in that war were drafted. Evading a draft notice would get you prison time. Thus, most soldiers in the Viet Nam War served involuntarily. About one in ten US soldiers died in that conflict. Few people were untouched by it--in terms of having a friend, family member, or schoolmate who was killed or maimed.
During the early years of the Viet Nam War (1964-1965), most Americans considered it a young man's patriotic duty to serve. (One reason for this is that these kids' fathers were almost all WWII veterans who considered their own service to have been deeply patriotic.) By 1968, the tide was turning, and by 1970, people were mad as hell--and there was a growing awareness that this was not a "patriotic" war at all, but merely an unending source of revenue for the MIC. Ordinary people were more and more unwilling to sacrifice their sons' lives in the service of war profiteers.
I grew up in a town whose chief employer was Lake City Arsenal, an arms manufacturer. The vast majority of its employees were WWII veterans; their kids were the Baby Boomers. As you would expect, anti-war sentiments would not win you any popularity contests in such a community. I guess they were okay with their sons coming home in body bags if it promoted their own job security. Or, to cut them some slack, it's probably fair to say that, as WWII veterans, they were very thoroughly indoctrinated--and had lived through the Great Depression. These are people who were very keenly aware that "going along to get along"--extreme conformity--was the price of the middle-class lifestyle, the well paid breadwinner job, the new car, nice clothes, and yearly family vacations, which obviously beat hell out of not having enough cornbread and beans to go around, because you were a 14-year-old supporting your family with a paper route (on a bicycle), or working as an 8-year-old migrant fruit picker. Plus people back in the 50s and 60s were far more naive than most people today--even almost childlike.
I don't know how long it took this cohort to change their views (as I no longer lived there), but even they eventually soured on the war. By the early 70s, my impression was that the Viet Nam War had few supporters left. Demonstrations against the war had long been massive and unrelenting. Returning Viet Nam veterans were reviled and spat on. Public sentiment against the war was so great that even the draft was ended, in 1973.
Now, obviously, not everyone with a draft-age son was naive and childlike, or ignorant of the real purposes of the Viet Nam War (mere MIC war profiteering), or working in the arms industry with their hand in the till. Many people among the more educated classes protected their sons from the draft, usually by keeping them in college for the duration. I'm sure many other approaches were used as well. By 1970, my impression was that most draft-age young men (and their families) lived with a desperate insecurity about being drafted--plus, by that time, most were probably opposed to the war.
The era of being gracious about your son coming home in a body bag had ended. There were a lot of body bags (58,220), and 304,000 wounded.
People who didn't live through that era probably cannot imagine the extent to which the American people turned against it. Far from being a "patriotic" war, the Viet Nam War is one of the most shameful eras in our country's history.
I think it also did more to discredit the government in the eyes of the people than any prior events.
While I would not consider serving in the Viet Nam War to be a badge of shame--since and 18-year-old boy is essentially a child--most of us who lived through that era view their service as a pitiable misfortune, neither honorable nor patriotic. As for those who were able to avoid serving, people who lived through that era may alternately view them as "fortunate sons" whose families were able to protect them, young men of conscience, or as "not a moron."
"... badge of shame... "
What a jerk of a thing to say. Were you one of the "spitters"?
GA
There were those during WWII who had the benefit of connections similar to during the Vietnam War. One man on the local draft board had 3 draft age sons, and coincidentally, none had to go to war while my Dad had to leave a crop in the ground to go fight. Farm products were very lucrative during WWII and the man had a large farming operation. There will always be political connections when it gets time to fight. The poor usually do the actual fighting for the wealthy.
Hi Randy, what is the connection between my comment and yours?
GA
Sorry, GA! That was meant for Diane. There goes another finger....
I cut off a finger every time I make a mistake, Diane! Just call me "nubby."
"While I would not consider serving in the Viet Nam War to be a badge of shame..."
Did you misread, GA?
Thanks for the poke Wilderness, yes I did miss that "not." Which almost makes my post the "jerky" one.
Mia culpa Blueheron.
GA
OMG I missed the "Not" too... My husband served in Vietnam and was spit on two occasions. I was starting to burn.
Well, perhaps you're the "jerky" one, but I feel good about it. Done that kind of thing too many times myself - nice to have company!
If you will read the sentence, it says, "While I would not consider serving in the Viet Nam War to be a badge of shame..."
Back in the Viet Nam War era, many did. Many still do. I felt it was important to stress that I am not among these.
I do think it would be helpful to teach the boys who are emerging into manhood that manhood is a status of great power and great responsibility. As men, their actions and decisions matter, and they will need to cultivate the adult virtues of wisdom, prudence, discernment, and much more. They will need to make honorable decisions, worthy of their dignity as men. That so few do so--as in the case of military service, but many other things as well--is to a great extent their misfortune, and not their fault.
The same goes for women. The status of womanhood is one of great power and great responsibility. Your decisions matter; they have far-reaching consequences.
And if you make serious mistakes in matters of serious importance, there will be people who will blame you.
Service in the Viet Nam War = Serious Mistake
I misread your comment Blueheron. My apologies. My mistake was pointed out, and I gave this reply.
I do not disagree that our escalated involvement in the Vietnam war was a political blunder, but I also do not hold the same perspective as you do concerning the military service of those that honored the call of their nation.
GA
How dare you... Now my opinion - Do you realize these 18-year-olds were faced with 5 to 10 years in prison? Their decision became very simple when faced with not only prison but the record of being a draft dodger. These men di what was asked of them got through it, and in my husband's case came back a true man. Able to face any hard decisions, and make a wonderful life for himself and family.
Who do you think you are to insult 100 of thousands of people that served in Vietnam as well as the dead and their loved ones? Nice to be able to sit back and give such an opinion. While it seems acceptable to be rude and give one's opinion on just about anything... Your statement is disgusting, shows lack of any depth, and ill-educated on the subject. Sickening, shallow, left ideology never fails to amaze me.
AS to your opinion on our military. Needs no comment, you have shown how ridiculous your opinion is just by making such a statement. Please post more of your opinions, they are not only insulting to some but provide a good laugh to many.
Sharlee , Shame on the naivete of these fools who cannot possibly fathom the patriotism and YES PATRIOTISM from the soldiers of the Vietnam era who still believe that they served for an honorable purpose . Many if not most of the era veterans of highest honor believed in their mission . We are supposed to give these mindless anti-s slack for demeaning all Vietnam era vets? How little they are in touch with history - how little they are in touch with REAL veterans ? Their stories , their sacrifices , their loss.
These genius' of shake and bake -instant history have watched to many Apocalypse Now re-runs and take their historical knowledge from Jimmy Carter peace sign diplomacy .
Horse, You know I can only tolerate so much of the ridiculous nonsensical BS from some of these far-left people. This one crossed the line, I m over it. Odd how she would not have realized that war affected so many peoples lives, in so many different ways...
Sharlee , It's called attaining the History of America through Hollywood, I never would have dreamed in my life that we would experience so many young people with "Smart Phone " mentalities lacking ANY attachment to reality whatsoever . Obviously smart phones are far more for socializing than learning that's for darned sure . They sure aren't learning anything from schools. If their combined knowledge wasn't just about how the alt-left viewed history , they would seem to know nothing .
Randy, your statement that "My Dad had to leave a crop in the ground to go fight. Farm products were very lucrative during WWII and the man had a large farming operation."
So you're saying your dad was drafted?
Farmers were exempt from the draft during WWII, as food production was deemed essential to both the nation's welfare and the war effort. To be exempted from the draft, a farmer had to have a decent sized farming operation, but it appears to me from the link below that the bar wasn't terribly high.
Farm folks here sometimes mention that their fathers were exempted from the draft during WWII, which is how I happen to know this. But here's a link: http://daviesscountyhistoricalsociety.c … ld-war-ii/
Yes, the left will adopt anything in "Vogue"... I am married to a Vietnam vet. He got his letter a week after graduating. Not even 19... He spent his tour, he came back to a country that some felt had the right to belittle him in his uniform any way they felt the urge to do. They labeled themselves as liberals". In fact the day I picked him at the airport we were so happy we could have floated away. It was short lived. We stopped on the way home at a nice restaurant I had made reservations to treat him to have a great meal. As we walked to our table. A man literally stood up and spit at my husband.
In regards to your mention of how blacks were treated when they returned, perhaps worse as I remember it. And I hope you will in no way take offense at what I am going to say. You have totally correct in regards to Blacks getting more respect in the foxholes. Many in my generation were raised to be respectful of all races. My mom and dad instilled in me that just because one has a different color skin makes them no different from me. Yes, there are racists, but there are also people that really don't see skin color. Sad to see we have come so many years and black people still have to deal with racism. Could part of it be that politicians seek to keep it thriving?
I now have a 4 year old grandchild. Last summer we were at a park, he came to me and asked me about me a question about a little black boy he was playing with. He asked, " why is the brown"? I told him he was born with that color skin, just like you were born with your color skin. As he walked away he asked, "can somebody be born blue"? I may be... If only more could be excepting of skin color as just that, a color. It's up to us to stop racism in our homes, and it should not be hard to do. I saw this that day in the park.
Thank you for your honesty! I'm not offended. You are right. Civility and respect should start in the home.
I remember the war only because graduates and a few classmates were drafted. I didn't know anything about why there was a war. I remember protests from watching television. I wasn't into the news or political climate.
I was trying to find my own way.
We were at the same place in respect to our views of life. Mine became intangled only because of my high school sweetheart was drafted. We married before he left for Bootcamp. And our still happily married after 51 years. Neither one of us supported the war but knew he would end up in jail if he did not report. So many of my friends died in the war. Seemed every few months I found myself at a funeral. I still remember the feeling I would get when someone knocked on our door. It was a very sad period in our country.
How romantic - 51 years!
People with money or status could get away with it. The commoners must do as told or accept the consequences.
He not only watches Fox. He watches Morning Joe on MSNBC. They spar every now and then. He watches CNN also. He loves to hate Don Lemon.
Radio free tom has an fools sense of politics , his misreading of not only Trump but Trumps entire base is what blinds him Trump IS listening to his people . What is it they say about any fool and a microphone .......
Breaking BIG ******** : Holy Wow Batman !!!!: This is actually better than the crimes Spanky n' Cohen are accused of:
"Avenatti renews demand that Rudy apologize to Stormy Daniels and suggests he can prove Trump lawyer is a porn consumer:"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … sumer.html
If this report is accurate, I guess maybe we might find out why Mr. CONservative Morals and values 'Batty' Rudy Giuliani walks around looking like this all the time: Trying to keep your eyes focused on a bright searing PC monitor all night into the morning can't be easy, hour after hour eating popcorn and milk duds washed down with a coors light, sitting with an unwashed rain coat on with a dark mask partially covering your elderly face to evade detection and identification might make anyone's pupils bulge like a bizarre looking 250 pound hoot owls:
'Riders on the Storm': Are we taking a little peak inside Stormy's world there Batty?:
Well, well, well
"Trump's personal attorney splits with his own legal team"
"CNN)President Donald Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, has split with the legal team that has shepherded him through a criminal investigation that included a high-profile FBI raid, a source familiar with the change said Wednesday.
The split could signal a shift in legal strategy and comes amid mounting pressure on Cohen as criminal charges could become likely."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrpmv_zOa0k
Jake, could there be a "flip" possible? Ooooooooooooh. I think there could......
Randy, seriously, would you become Big Bubba's little prison toy for this strange looking ridiculous incoherent fool? I could be dead wrong, and we know he's not playing with all 88 piano keys, but I really don't think sloppy Cohen is that dumb do you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoV4fxFk2Q
I think Donny Boy had better think about packing on another 100 or so pounds really quick to be absolutely sure Big Bubba, the pen bully will be repulsed by his presence just like the American people already are: Adding another daily bucket of KFC might do the trick:
I guess Shar and horse don't realize BlueHeron is a Spanky fan like they are? LMAO!
The real fourth grade post was right there. Most of us learned by fourth grade that you use a question mark at the end of a question. If you're going to try and claim to be smart, please, for the love of God, get a grip on basic writing skills.
Apparently the grammar police have arrived .
Anybody care deeply ?
Well, one could commit a punctuation error from time to time. But some here have freed themselves from the tyranny of--not only Spellcheck and Grammar Check--but all pretense of consecutive and rational thought. Oopsie! Could happen to anyone, right? People go barking mad every day, right?
The next thing you know they are countering statements of objective facts with lurid fantasies, name-calling, and abusive language--apparently believing that the way you prove a point is to become agitated. But I don't think I'll be holding my breath in the expectation that they will acknowledge the relevant standards and try to correct themselves.
You realize that this is but one more excuse for a no substance response to a legit post , call the usual names , lets see , racist , bigot , misogynist ,blah, blah blah and when you tire of those or they don't apply , the grammar ?
But then SOME could go through fourth grade six times and not learn that this is a political forum not an english class , get over it.
Legit? When you claim to be this all-knowing political genius, as you do with many of your posts, you shouldn't be surprised if some of us call bs since you write at such a low educational level.
Go ahead and provide an example of that ridiculous statement. We'll wait.
"We'll wait"... Did the conversation become Horse against all? Valeant, it was you that made the derogatory statement directed at Horse. Do you feel your part of a group when you post a comment?
That you are some sort of one minded "pack"? Do you have the right to open up criticism of those that practice your ideology? Your statement is very telling, it shows me you are following a herd blindly hoping to be part of a majority. I will say, you have the talent to fit in, you deflect well, your statements are glib, and reflect the ideology of the left. Not even sure which of Horses post brought you to revert to a "grammar insult"? You took a cheat PC jab at Horse. I am not PC. But, I guess you may have been aware of that. So, just a tip. When you can't provide a comment of substance, perhaps you should not comment, and maybe consider not using the term "we'll wait". You don't have the innate right to involve others in your scrappy conversations. This is not the fourth - grade, and you are not bullying someone on the playground with a bunch of your like peers cheering you on!
Oh, and I suggest you have a look round you. You are fast becoming a small minority.
Oh, Since you opened the door with your statement "Go ahead and provide an example of that ridiculous statement". Who do we start with?
While Stormy's attorney Michael Avenatti tortures Donald Trump in every way, and Summer Zervos' pending law suit paves the way for her and Stormy's 'discovery' of Mr. Trump which could unearth even more stunning revelations, and as we all patiently yet anxiously await the inevitable indictment of Mr. Trump's sloppy 'fixer' Michael Cohen, you might want to keep one eye on the greatest point crash in Dow Jones history caused by Spanky Trump and his insane trade wars coupled with his instigating of global strife and chaos, a massive stock market correction which has yet to recover months later:
Your IRAS, bank accounts, stocks, 401ks and stock accounts are getting hammered today and as I suggested a couple weeks ago, we might be in for another test of Trump's historical crash which occurred a few months ago in FEB 2018:
If the Dow Jones fails to hold on to 25,000, we're in for a very shocking ride, but not as shocking as the potential damning revelations which may emerge from "Flipper Michael Cohen':
Sharlee, when Horse comes on and throws around insults like 'your fourth grade level political posts,' some of us are going to respond to those insults, especially with the hypocrisy of how poorly they are written from an educational perspective. It was like Trump calling DeNiro a low IQ individual while misspelling the word 'to' in claiming 'he took to many shots to the head.' And you call that a comment of substance? That's another example of your right-wing double standard. Obama golfed too much, right?
There's a limit to how many times we read his pompousness without responding. If Horse doesn't want to get called out for his crap, don't come on here throwing around insults at members of the opposite political party. It's just that simple.
I've found Spanky's voters are just like him, Val. Truth and facts are unimportant to both in the scheme of things. One of the reasons both depend on Hannity for their "facts".
Randy, do you ever actually add a comment on the subject? Should you just take a bit of time and review your posts. Nothing to add to a given subject. Just a sentence or to, mostly glib comments trying to prop up another users post. It is apparent you are at the back of the herd. Can't be pleasant back there?
Valeant, nice deflect. Do you not comprehend my comment? I was addressing you. Asking you a question. My comment to you was very clear. "We'll wait'... Why not direct your response to my comment. You are once again deflecting. Did I hit a nerve, did I make you stop and hum? You took a cheap shot and made an attempt to portray it as PC. Your slipping, it was rude. As I said I am not PC. I don't play that game. Why did you feel you had the right to use the term We'll wait? To me, this is far worse than a missing bit of punctuation. It's words and the intellect that gives Horse an edge over you. He speaks for himself. He does not appear to need a herd mulling behind him. My comment referred to your statement We'll wait". I addressed herd mentality and wanted you to explain why you made that statement. "I" will wait for your explanation, keep to subject. I do not appreciate the deflect.
Oh, and using the word "right" after a statement is out of vogue. It's old, stale.
Hey , Valeant , Hypocrisy is your middle names over there on the great left of lefts .You've got some nerve though calling it out here merely copying what we call YOU out for in the first place , AND a lot of nerve telling us we should stay out of the conversations , Why ? So that you on the alt-left can decide ALL of the conversation content , you'd like nothing more . No ! What bothers those of you on the left is that even a low intellect guy like horse shows more political sense than ten alt-left "know it all's" reading from a Bernie Sanders script .
Group though is all you got ? Better stay home and read a history book!
Horse, I certainly am not going away. I have as much right to be here as anyone else. If someone doesn't like one of my comments, it will be their prerogative to not reply. Actually, I enjoy having a free speech forum. I enjoy being able to share our presidents accomplishments. President Trump is doing so well, and I expect he will continue down that path. Winning is wonderful fun, is it not?
I am so positive about the future, and no one could take that feeling away with glib comments or unproven innuendo. Let the sad herd drowned in stupidity, that's something they're very accustomed to. Hey, remember election night how quickly they started to stomp their feet, cry to the heavens, called names, and deflected. Oh, yeah they're still doing that.
Sharlee, if you can't understand sarcasm in using the phrase, we'll wait, maybe it's best you stay out of these conversations. 'Your slipping?' You mean, you're slipping, right? Might be stale, but still applicable when trying to teach you guys basic English.
Sarcasm? Ridiculous. Yes, I do at times misspell a word or forget a comma. I don't deflect, I don't make glib statements. I stick to facts and answer questions. How about you? Oh, and I don't use any form of Grammer program. Do you? LOL I like to keep my skills active. So, you may catch me here and there, but you will never catch me not stating facts unless I state it is a personal opinion. You see I unlike you do not need a herd. I have intellect, as well guts to stand on my own.
Your whole Trump cult is a herd, what are you talking about? You've completely bought into his gaslighting and lies and spew them forth all the time.
Our whole Obama economy conversation was proof of that. You couldn't even acknowledge the gains made during his presidency because your media tells you he was a failure. You even failed to acknowledge that the decline in the economy came as he took office based on policies of previous presidents.
Then there's the ignoring of the fact that the FISA warrants on Page were requested two weeks before the election, long after he was out of the Trump team, but you continue to claim that the Obama government spied on the Trump campaign during the process. Complete ignoring of facts, but you buy into the false talking points Trump tweets out to you.
"Our whole Obama economy conversation was proof of that. You couldn't even acknowledge the gains made during his presidency because your media tells you he was a failure. You even failed to acknowledge that the decline in the economy came as he took office based on policies of previous presidents." I have never made any claims to what kind of economy Obama was handed. It is clear the economy did poorly under Bush. It is also clear Obama's economy was poor in providing job growth, and unemployment was high. The stock market was mediocre, flat.
" Your whole Trump cult is a herd, what are you talking about? You've completely bought into his gaslighting and lies and spew them forth all the time."
Trump won the election via the electoral vote. I have provided solid facts about Trump's accomplishments while it appears some are not willing to accept these facts. Even with solid proof of said facts. That alone is frustrating to a person that relies on facts.
"Then there's the ignoring of the fact that the FISA warrants on Page were requested two weeks before the election, long after he was out of the Trump team, but you continue to claim that the Obama government spied on the Trump campaign during the process. Complete ignoring of facts, but you buy into the false talking points Trump tweets out to you."
"but you continue to claim that the Obama government spied on the Trump campaign during the process."
I have stated it many times I do not deal in innuendo such as the Obama administration spying on the Trump campaign. If I made any comment about this subject it would be based on facts or possibly an opinion. Yet your accusation is directed at me.
I do not follow a herd. And once again you deflect and post a direct insult using absolute untruths.
One would think you would see what you are doing? You still can't answer a direct question? Do you realize you can't delete your comments, and how ridiculous your comments are? Don't lump me in any group, I don't need any form of back up. I deal in facts. I don't deflect, I don't make glib statements unless trying to make a real point.
No more deflection, I will not repeat or defend old BS. I am not here to educate you in the economy or anything else. Believe what you please. When making an attempt to insult someone have your straight.
This is exactly what I'm talking about:
'It is clear the economy did poorly under Bush. It is also clear Obama's economy was poor in providing job growth, and unemployment was high. The stock market was mediocre, flat. '
When Obama took office in January of 2009, the stock market was 7,949. When he left office in January of 2017, it was 19,827. A nearly 12,000 point gain and doubling was mediocre and flat? Seriously? That's your position?
This is what making an argument based in fact looks like.
Are you forgetting that when Obama took office we were in the middle of the biggest recession since the 20's? That would seem to have a slight impact on the rate of rise in the following recovery.
Even though Obama spent a trillion dollars and has nothing to show for it, we DID see a recovery. The slowest in history, but nevertheless a recovery.
Trump, on the other hand, has produced the lowest unemployment see in decades. I can't recall the last time job offers exceeded job seekers.
Recession caused by which party exactly? You're dinging Obama for improving the economy run into the ground by the previous party. Got it. That's amazing logic.
So who ran the economy better, Bush jr. or Obama? Clinton or Bush Sr.?
Yes, caused by Congress. By members of both parties. Yep - Obama improved it...by throwing away a trillion dollars with nothing to show for it. At least the previous times we got something FOR that money, but Obama just threw it away for nothing in return.
That's where Obama put all that money he borrowed from China ?
You know ? The doublin of the National debt ? Those free Chinese phones surged our stimulus spending greatly .
You're dinging Obama for deficit spending that increased the debt when Trump's scheduled to run higher figures. That's priceless hypocrisy.
Now come on Horse, we are not supposed to mention the deficit. LOL Or Iran or Syria, or unemployment or Obama's "red line" that led to 500.000 men women and children being massacred. Oh, and please don't mention the jobs that left the country. Oh, I forgot the babies immigrants that were kept in cages. My, this is all so sad is it not?
Go ahead and mention the deficit. But how about you hold your guy to the same standard? That'd be a change.
Trump outspends EVERY PREVIOUS US PRESIDENT in history like Obama did for nothing but entitlements spending ? Explain that . Believe me , we will hold him accountable too !
Is that legible and clear enough for you ?
"My Guy" is keeping his campaign promises. My guy has been in office less than two years, and well on his way to solving the nations biggest problems. Many problems your guy caused. "Your guy' stayed under the radar and caused more problems than he solved. History will not be kind to him. Whereas Trump, need I even say?
Saw a quote today and it's likely how history will likely remember your guy...
'There has never been a first family that has been more transparent. They lie openly, they cheat openly, they obstruct openly, they steal openly, they collude openly, they threaten and bully openly, they demonstrate their ignorance openly, they openly demonstrate their hypocrisy, they openly flaunt their lack of knowledge of American history, they openly reject science and objective evidence. What could be more transparent?'
"History" will NOT be kind to Trump yet as history ensues , all Trump opponents will enjoy their benefits , trust funds ,individual wealth , retirement packages , portfolios , profitability . the economy , national security , business growth , entitlement growth ,Trump is easy to dislike and even hate ,
America is getting really good at that .
Think Trump really cares ?
This is a wonderful statement you should copy and put on your refrigerator. That way you can memorize it. And yet with all of these faults he is president and one of the best we have ever had... Go figure?
Actually. Spanky Trump is considered the very best president we've ever had by far if you happen to be a filthy rich elitist or Vladimir Putin: But back to the topic of his unholy adulterous and possible criminal one night stand with stunning porn actress Stormy Daniels who has legal actions pending against Spankt Trump and sloppy Michael Cohen:
The 'Trump Charade' is falling apart at the seems, but what could any possible expect from a phony presidency built on lies, falsehoods, corruption and deception?
"Cohen signals openness to cooperating with federal investigators"
(CNN)President Donald Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen has indicated to family and friends he is willing to cooperate with federal investigators to alleviate the pressure on himself and his family, according to a source familiar with the matter.
Cohen has expressed anger with the treatment he has gotten from the President, who has minimized his relationship with Cohen, and comments from the President's lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the source said. The treatment has left him feeling isolated and more open to cooperating, the source said.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics … index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iyVD4of0Rw
Funny I just posted an article for Valeant to read. IT's in regards to what our nations Historians are saying about Obamas 8 years. I suggest you read it. I think the experts can shed the best light on the subject, don't you? Jake, you may want to be ready to be hit with some bad news, historians are in general being not so kind to him. They do give him a bit of credit, but not much. His tenure was mediocre at best. It is very clear Historians look for accomplishments, this is where Obama fell short. Well, let's leave all that to the experts. The ones that write our history without bias.
http://time.com/4632190/historians-obamas-legacy/
Valeant, I hope you will take time to read the article I have provided. I think it best when one is disgusting the legacy of a president to actually see what the historians have to say. What, their thoughts are. In regards to Obama, it's not very good... Not all bad, but most depict his time in office as mediocre. They give him credit for a sandal free 8 years and some give credit for his first years handling the lagging economy. He was faulted on his domestic policies, foreign policies, immigration, and race relations. Some felt he deepening the racial divide. All and all their opinions are pretty much the same. He left little that would be notable to historians. He ignored growing problems and left them for the next administration. He flew under the radar... I found it odd, none mentioned his clear gift as a "wordsmith". he certainly could captivate n audience with a speech. Guess Historians just look at accomplishments? Yeah, because being a president is actually a job. Not a speech class, bucking for an A+.
http://time.com/4632190/historians-obamas-legacy/
Interesting article. Seemed to be more praise than criticism in there, so it's interesting how you found so much fault on domestic, foreign, immigration, and race relations. Almost half note the obstructionist Congress as reasons he didn't accomplish more, and that he had to resort to Executive action to accomplish some of what he did.
But one of the best quotes I read was this one:
'The President’s opponents questioned his legitimacy from the beginning. The leader of the opposing party declared that the highest priority—more important than the public good—was to make sure Obama would not be reelected. This imperative failed, but the racism that runs so deep in American culture was unleashed as it had not been for two generations. The bandages have been ripped off the sores, which are now open and festering in public culture.
Was Obama then a failure? No. American public culture has failed. We were not ready for a black president. He cedes power on Friday to the very people who questioned his legitimacy and denied him the right to govern. They have already begun to demolish his accomplishments.'
Much of how you might view Obama versus how I view Obama seems to fall into that area. I don't downgrade him for what he couldn't accomplish in the face of such a partisan Congress. I put that on Congress itself for its failure to govern.
I give him credit for economic recovery, addressing climate change, putting forth policy to keep in check a greedy and dishonest Wall St., and a health care policy that tried to help the worst off of the citizenry.
Oh, I think we were ready for a black president. What we weren't ready for was a black president that made it so obvious that he was racist...while doing nothing for the race.
Blacks expected great improvements, but he supplied nothing. Others expected fair treatment of all, which he also failed to provide (think of attacking white policemen without having the faintest idea of what had happened).
Perhaps our next black president will truly be colorblind.
The nation was very much ready for a Black president, and Obama presented himself as just the man. He would never have won without the white vote. But, he did black Americans a disservice. At the point, he took office we were at a place in our social history where there was little racial divide in America. Yes, there was and will always be racists. However, we had progressed as a nation to look past skin color. Due to the sheer fact, the majority of black American's had pushed forward and earned respect through many years of strife.
Over Obama's tenure, an old wound was opened. Sad to say he gave little assistance to inner cities blacks that needed his help. he gave nice speeches but no real help. I stead of pointing out their great accomplishments, he made excuses for violence and unrest. Almost rewarded it.
Sharlee01 & wilderness: The topic of this discussion is not your seething hatred of President Obama, we get it, you hate individuals like Barrack who are opposed to enriching the rich who don't need more money and who feel they are entitled to pillage the USA and pay nothing in return:
The subject is about Donny Boy's one night stand with a porn actress who is now suing him and his sloppy attorney Michael Cohen who is on the verge of being indicted and thereafter 'flipping' against him: If Cohen hasn't already made a deal with NY Prosecutors:
Sorry, but neither of us is cut from the same cloth as you seem to be; neither of us has a "seething hatred of President Obama". We'll leave that kind of irrational emotionalism to you. Although I DO have a dislike of people that have decided that what I build actually belongs to them to use as they choose.
Nobody cares that President Trump had a one night stand years ago. Except those that try to use it to grown and expand their TDS of course.
You don't dictate the subject. As you should be able many deflect off subject when they can't defend others comments. I posted a link to what historians are saying about Obama, funny they pretty much did list all of what I thought they would. Very fair factual bunch those historians. Maybe you should read it? Facts can be so hard to take...
Once again -- it's a defamation case is no biggy. It's a civil case that would if Trump lost it. He will be required to pay damages to the person for damaging her reputation. Let face it her character could not get much lower? Not sure how calling her a liar is more damaging than her career choice or doing one-nighters for cash. Then blackmailing his attorney for cash then breaking a non-discloser agreement. Trump will not even be required to show up in court.
Not sure you have followed the thread? The subject has been deflected many times. Due to Stormy's 15 minutes being long over? Is it a simple civil case?
That's pretty much the way I see it. Rather than providing some real help to inner cities (regardless of race) he helped expand the racial divide with rhetoric supporting that blacks are different than whites and deserve special treatment because of that difference. Support, overt or rather obscure, of the BLM movement to separate blacks into a different category than other people was absolutely uncalled for and racially divisive.
Jake - Do us a favor. When we're having our own discussion, stop trying to hijack it back to what you want it to be.
Just curious, how is hatred of president Obama relative to Mr. Trump and his porn actress adulterous one night stand because that's the topic of this discussion according to the title, not the topic I want it to be:
Just curious, how is Trumps one night stand relative to anything at all? And what makes you think that only what you want to see is all that can be said?
Well wilderness, if anyone believes your last comment I have a nice "Trump University' diploma to sell them: Not addressing you per se, but we understand most cultish Trump fans are oblivious to his crimes, torts and adulterous one night stands despite the severity, he can do with them what he will with utter impunity, that's just a symptom of their affliction, but fortunately for the USA, they are and will remain in the minority:
For me, it's less about the actual affair than the cover up of the payment and the failure to disclose it on his financial forms, which is a violation of the law. How many violations of the law are Trump supporters willing to ignore?
As many as has become customary with Democratic nominees and politicians? Does that sound fair and equitable?
Sure. You did note that the IG report also backs up that Hillary shouldn't have been charged with a crime, right? So maybe it's time to stop beating that dead horse.
Oh, so none of your discussions ever lead to other avenues of thought? Got it. For the rest of us normal humans, we tend to bounce around a bit more than that. If that's a problem for you, oh well.
I too give him credit where due. Although it seems we derived completely different opinions on the article. I came away with them giving Obama good credit for fixing a final crisis in his first two years. Making attempt to work around Congress with his pen. But I disagreed with much of what he did in regards to job-killing regulations. Just my opinion. I agreed with the point that many made that his foreign policy floundered due to bad decision making. I disagreed with his lack of handling immigration problems by not changing the standing laws that needed changing. Plus, creating DACA, leaving the problem for the next administration, and DACA recipients in limbo. His lack of problem-solving, need to push socialism with his pen. Many of us do not want Government running our lives. We stand on perhaps old values. At any rate, many opted for change, an agenda that promised problem-solving, and common sense change. Much of hat was promised is now a reality. No one knows how Trumps presidency will, in the end, turn out. However, one thing is very clear, he is trying like hell to keep his promises. And I laugh when I say this. he does not in any respect fly below the radar.
I found it odd you seem to feel this was an accomplishment? I believe many of the historians felt he caused a racial divide?
"This imperative failed, but the racism that runs so deep in American culture was unleashed as it had not been for two generations. The bandages have been ripped off the sores, which are now open and festering in public culture."
Shar, I'd actually agree with you on foreign policy. His desire to live up to his campaign promise of pulling troops out of Iraq was likely done too quickly, which created a vacuum for ISIS to thrive.
Just a question about his handling of immigration problems. You ding him for 'not changing the standing laws that needed changing.' Whose job is it to make laws, the President or Congress? It wasn't Obama that kicked the can down the road, it was an obstructionist Congress led by McConnell.
And when an old white guy comes out right away saying he has no desire to work with the younger black guy, that's some serious disrespect. It may have just been partisanship. But many people read that as an openly racist statement, especially when the old white guy is from a state that is fairly rural. The racial gauntlet was thrown down right there.
"Whose job is it to make laws, the President or Congress?"
A good point, and one I keep making. The next question, though, is "whose job is it to enforce the laws congress makes?" and the answer hinges on the President. It was never Obama's "job" to decide which of congressional enacted laws he would choose to enforce, for his job is to enforce then all. Even the ones he personally finds distasteful or even the ones he thinks most people find distasteful. In this regard Trump is head and shoulders above Obama, for he understands and accepts the responsibility of doing his job. Not just the part he likes.
While Obama deported the most people of any President in history, ICE arrests are up 30% since last year. Not sure I can argue against your point, or even want to. Even as a liberal, I think enforcement of the law is a good thing.
I would prefer keeping the families together that have crossed illegally, but have no problem deporting them. We have a pathway to citizenship and if you're not on it, you need to go.
I do not like to see families separated either. However, it's clear if the government continues to catch and release the problem will only get much worse. The problem with releasing family, 88% never show up for their court proceedings. They are never seen again. The common sense thing to do is secure the borders to discourage families from trying to come in illegally. People can approach our ports of entry if truly in need to be protected from some form of persecution.
I see no other solution than a strong border, better immigration laws, and being able to let people in legally. Another need, improve work visa laws so if there is a need for workers they can come in legally.
Valeant,
"Just a question about his handling of immigration problems. You ding him for 'not changing the standing laws that needed changing.' Whose job is it to make laws, the President or Congress? It wasn't Obama that kicked the can down the road, it was an obstructionist Congress led by McConnell."
It is congresses job to pass laws. It is their responsibility to create laws. Although anyone can write it a bill, only members of Congress can introduce legislation. Some important bills are traditionally introduced at the request of the President to work on a presidents agenda. Such as next week the president has requested bills on immigration reform. I think immigration is a priority. Handling DACA, and getting laws that will discourage people coming in illegally at the border with their children. The present laws are not sufficient.to handle the illegal immigration. The president has been pushing for reform for months.
Yes, and after stabilizing the economy and working towards ACA, the GOP took over Congress and at that point McConnell shut things down. Obama had to prioritize economy and health care over immigration. Congress was do-nothing when they got control.
When Barack Obama was inaugurated the House of Representatives was made up of 257 Democrats and 178 Republicans. There is no question that Democrats had total control in the House from 2009-2011. So not sure one can blame Congress for Obama's lack of getting things done? However, and this is just my opinion. The Congress does seem to be a problem on both sides getting anything done. I am for 8-year terms. I just feel some make it their life's work, become stale, and non-effective. It was very evident Obama's first years in office was plagued by Congress, though the majority was democratic. It appeared he did not seem to have the ability to get things done or handle congress.
Trump goes after them forcefully via media and social media. The gloves are off with Trump.
Check a chart. it was very flat with sever swing his first 5.5 years. Oh, and two crashes... Many of us lost lots of cash. Under Trump all is well, and even better than that... Not sure you follow the market? The Obama years were tenuous. Things did get better toward the end of his term. Many knew we were getting a businessman in office, it's called confidence. Trump has added 7 trillion to the economy. This is half of what it took Obama 8 years to add. Numbers are facts...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-m … llion.html
I do follow the market. The first quarter this year was the second-worst market showing since 2011. These are Trump policies now taking hold.
He did have a great first year by building confidence and slashing regulations to help businesses, regulations that were instilled to prevent market crashes and protect consumers instead of businesses that used practices that put markets in danger.
Now that the rhetoric has settled, talk of trade wars and attacking businesses such as Amazon have halted any further gains. This is the instability we're getting with Trump in the White House. Your article is six months out of date at this point. Time for some current material, don't you think?
And you keep talking about two crashes for Obama. Care to provide some detail there. There was one quarter with very little growth, and the market was down when he first took office, but that's hardly on him.
Breaking BIG ******** : WoW, WoW, WoW:
Well that didn't take long now did it? Honestly, who in their right mind actually thinks he's going to leave his wife and family for life imprisonment forced into daily community showers with the general population to protect this orange thing?
"Cohen signals openness to cooperating with federal investigators"
"(CNN)President Donald Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen has indicated to family and friends he is willing to cooperate with federal investigators to alleviate the pressure on himself and his family, according to a source familiar with the matter.
Cohen has expressed anger with the treatment he has gotten from the President, who has minimized his relationship with Cohen, and comments from the President's lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the source said. The treatment has left him feeling isolated and more open to cooperating, the source said."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics … index.html
CNN ?.................................I mean like , Fake CNN , Jake ?
You mean like Trump fake...as in any story that criticizes him...or what he, literally, defines as fake news. That's exactly how he defined it, in case you missed it.
Horse is strictly a Limbaugh and Hannity suckling. Only Fox News tells the truth! Mwahahahahah!
Ridicule is always such a great riposte! Why not go all in and just call him a pee-pee head. You know you want to.
Sometimes I have to just remember that some people never rise above the intelligence level of the last step in our evolution . While I read a dozen or more media sights a day and make up my OWN mind , group though is all some people have.
I simply take them at face value . You may too.
Breaking BIG ******** : Cohen's cell phones confiscated by FBI and decoded:
"PROSECUTORS EXTRACT 700 PAGES OF ENCRYPTED MESSAGES FROM THE PHONE OF TRUMP LAWYER MICHAEL COHEN"
"Federal prosecutors investigating U.S. President Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer Michael Cohen have extracted more than 700 pages of messages sent using encrypted programs like WhatsApp and Signal on phones seized from Cohen, according to a court filing on Friday.
The prosecutors also said they had reconstructed 16 pages from the contents of a shredding machine taken during raids on Cohen’s home, office and hotel room in April. The prosecutors said in their filing in Manhattan federal court that they had turned the materials over to Cohen’s lawyers."
http://www.newsweek.com/prosecutors-ext … ael-980122
Existing immigration law is clear , constitutional directive is clear , What has been foggy beyond reasonable is when these laws are not only IGNORED but are swept under the rug of apathy from the top [Obama ]down .
If pre-existing laws are enforced ,the Immigration problem settles itself .Simple.
What are you even talking about ahorseback? And how is your comment about immigration and Mr. Trump's blatantly inhumane application of said atrocity relevant to Donny Boy's adulterous one night stand with Stormy Daniels, a scandal which his attorney sloppy Cohen funneled $130,000 to defuse?
An unforgivable sin which charlatan christian leaders like Jerry Falwell Junior ignore as a trove of additional evidence of more serious underlying crimes that the NY Criminal Investigation and Mueller Criminal Investigation are unearthing comes to fruition:
'Batty' Rudy Giuliani seems to be preparing for Mr. Trump's impeachment, it's the only rational stance this clown has taken since his major television debut flop weeks ago acting as Donny's agent :
Here's one for Sharlee01 who is persistent in her desperate attempts to distract from the topic of this forum which is the putrid adulterous one night stand old man Spanky had with Stormy Daniels as alleged by Stormy, Michael Avenatti's daily torturing of Spanky and the pending indictment of Mr. Trump's personal attorney sloppy Michael Cohen and the underlying crimes and torts which may engulf Mr. Trump:
His indictment is expected any day now with Micheal and Mr, Trump in a panic:
Tort -a wrongful act or an infringement of a right (other than under contract) leading to civil legal liability.
Civil lawsuit = monetary payment for damages.
The person that file must prove their reputation was damaged. Not sure if the porn star lost any jobs over being called a liar. In fact, I think in her field she may have picked up clients? I mean she did sleep with the president. LOL
OH ......, THE PRICE OF VICE;
I read the other day that Stormy was cut recently from her place of "employment " because she was charging them too much for her dancing appearances , All this media attention is raising the "price of vice" I guess , maybe the DNC can now pick her of for fundraising performances ? Hillary could funnel some of her foundation monies through the porn industry ..............legally .
Horse, I am sure the Clinton's have considered your suggestion. however, I think Hillary would not let Bill within shouting distance with Stormy. Seems like Stormy is laying low? Have not seen her on the news s of late. Most likely because of, she came to the realization he is in real trouble for breaking the nondisclosure agreement with Cohen. She had better hope Trump just settles her defamation case. Because she is going to need lots of cash to pay Cohen. LOL
lol, Well, Sharlee01, I'm not sure the warden at the federal penitentiary will allow sloppy Cohen to receive bushels of cash while serving a life sentence: Where's he gonna hide all those 20 dollar bills after his pillow case is stuffed, under his cell mates mattress?
Stormy is off camera, but her attorney Michael Avenatti is still torturing Donny Boy daily and I can't think of someone more deserving than this evil creature who could care less about humanity as long as he gets his, and hopefully God willing he'll get his indictment very soon:
Sure you are not watching reruns. Have I not seen 'creepy porn lawyer" for weeks either? I did see on CNN that his x partner won a 10 million dollar judgment against Creepy... LOL Oh, you asked I stay on subject. here is an article that might explain why we have not seen Creepy and Stormy out and about. I know how much you idolize this creep, but perhaps you should get to know him a bit better.
"Judge Catherine Bauer of U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Santa Ana ordered Eagan Avenatti to pay the $10 million to Jason Frank, a lawyer who used to work at the Newport Beach firm."
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p … story.html
lol, you wanna talk about debts? Really? You really wanna go there? This is your con man in chief: Looks like Spanky Trump and his sloppy soon to be prison license plate maker Cohen are trying desperately to recoup all that money they lost from little ole' Stormy with their fraudulent frivolous NDA civil actions:
lol, Think she's got a few billion they can bilk out of her to bring Donny, the king of debt Back to even?
"The Bankruptcies Behind Trump’s ‘King of Debt’ Claim"
https://www.bna.com/bankruptcies-behind … 982082086/
"Trump still owes lenders including Deutsche Bank as much as $480 million"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump … 2018-05-16
Jake, Just a quick question. Do you ever read you resource links? This article makes clear many love to loan cash to Trump? I was expecting to see something derogatory? In regards o bankruptcies. Very old news, most large businesses use this law.
I always read my links and you're simply inaccurate Sharlee01, after Mr. 'big winning deals' Trump's massive bankruptcy failures in Atlantic City. nobody would lend him a red cent and that's why he was forced to find foreign suckers such as Russia to finance his junk, so he and his grifter family could pursue even more business failures: Now it looks like that balloon payment has come due in spades:
Many agree this could be the underlying reason why Vladimir Putin seems to control his every move: Michael Cohen had set up at least one secret LLC to payoff Stormy Daniels, if he thought it was a legal payoff he didn't need to establish a secret shell company to do so, he also accepted and perhaps funneled dirty millions through the very same entity:
Now, Mr. Trump is committing another unthinkable crime of humanity with his insane immigration policy to segregate children from their families, he thinks this makes him look strong, but any real man will tell you it makes him look weak, pathetic and small like the bum that he truly is:
The Cohen indictment is almost upon us thank God, and with him should go Mr. Trump and later when he arrives in hell, maybe the devil will sentence him to an eternity living in a tiny little steel cage, penniless with no clothes, somewhere in a remote swath of Mexican Earth:
Did not have to use cartoons... I have facts to rely on.
Photo 2014 Wonder why Obama did nothing to help these children??? Thank God we have a president working on helping these families now...
So wonderful to hear so many of these gang members are being hunted down and deported or put in prison if they broke the law. I guess Obama should not have let them walk over our borders...
I guess the people of Chicago should build him a library? LOL Or maybe he should get another Nobel peace prize?
I hate cartoons so much nicer to see real photos.
Well, Sharlee01, you still can't seem to find an unflattering photo of President Obama I see: He even looks 'fly' in that fake pic of him hangin' with gang members:
But this weirdo looking elderly creature named Donald Trump constantly gives us a new frame of gross indecency and unsightlyness almost every single day, and just wait until his personal attorney sloppy Cohen who was still listing himself as agent of the Trump organization up until a few months ago, gets cuffed which is expected forthwith if we still have laws:
His propecia is already a gruesome mess, just wait until Michael Avenatti gets done with him:
The weirdo looking elderly creature named Donald Trump is who is fixing all the problems Obama left him due to not being able to handle his job.
You mean Mr. Trump is solving the problem of conning a woman in her 20's to spend the night with him. promising her a television spot while his brand new wife is sitting at home pregnant, then habitually lying about it, then apparently instructing his sloppy attorney to pay her off to silence her and then committing a federal crime by neglecting to disclose the secret transaction on financial forms?
You must be referring to that kind of problem solving right? Because all of Mr. Trump's other cynical actions have been specifically designed to destroy the economic and social fabric of United States of America, something Vladimir Putin adores:
How dare you feel you have the right to so slander the president's daughter. Just because you could. How would you feel if someone took the liberty to slander you our someone you loved unjustly? This is disgusting, and sad that we have people like you that could bring themselves to post something like this cartoon. It's hateful and shows a lack of caring. And I see you are on the bandwagon to stop the separation of families at the border? So, caring... Yet you find it acceptable to insult a mere stranger, a mother, and you do it with an antisemitic cartoon. You are well aware of Ivanka's religion. You, sir, are a sad example of a human being. Hate personified.
I have clearly insulted you, and I fully meant to. Because you have invited insults showing your pure hate, and bias.
Sharlee, while you sit back and ignore the parallels to 1930's Germany, the rest of us are calling out the Trump family policies that lack all manner of humanity and are openly used to profiteer on their position in our government, which is a violation of our laws (Chinese trademarks, ZTE deal for Trump properties abroad, Qatar, Trump's DC hotel, golf club visits).
This cartoon highlights both failures of those in positions within our government, including the president's daughter. If you can't separate how she's both the president's daughter and acting as a representative by taking a position within the administration, then using said position to further her business interests, you're ignorant to the truth.
But what's really sad is your passive compliance with inhumane and dishonest human beings.
You once again deflect. One question, why didn't Obama fix this problem? Why do you feel you can openly insult Ivanka Trump. Check the labels in what you're wearing today... The majority of the clothing sold in the USA is made in China. I have nothing more to discuss with you. Wak up. Trump did not cause any of these problems he is working to solve them. It's your prerogative to believe hat you want to. Me, I can see what truth is, and face it. Why were you not incensed with Obama when you realized he did nothing about the separation of families? It is apparent you ignored it. You want horrific stop and think of the genocide we witnessed in Syria. Obama did nothing. You are blind to real facts.
In regard to Ivanka's business ventures. DO you have the common sense to understand that NAFTA literally pretty much closed down our clothing manufacturing industry? This is another problem that Trump is working on unfair trade, trying to bring jobs back. Ivanka works daily on promoting STEM, as well as many other projects, she is also a wife and mother. You have no right to openly insult her.
No deflection at all, I just tried to explain the elements of that cartoon since you so obviously lack the mental capacity to understand them.
You want deflection, you came back with a questionably racist whataboutism of Obama photoshopped in with gang members and start talking about inner city violence a thousand miles from the border. Now that's some deflection.
Why do I feel I can openly call Ivanka out for her crap? Because she's here to serve the citizenry of this country, which includes me. If she wants to be in government, she should have divested from her business interests to avoid emoluments issues. But like Donald, she felt she was above the law and this cartoon calls her out for it and calls out her father for HIS policy of separating families, similar to how they did it in Germany in the 1930's.
The bigger question here is why are you able to defend this inhumane policy?
You are a hypocrite. Once again why was this family separation acceptable under Obama?
"You want deflection, you came back with a questionably racist whataboutism of Obama photoshopped in with gang members and start talking about inner city violence a thousand miles from the border. Now that some deflection"
RACIST? It is very clear you choose not to face the crimes of MS 13 right here in the USA. How about the numbers of murders in Chicago? Not pretty but true. Racist, you post a cartoon clearly depicting Ivanka a Jewish woman promoting garments that were used in concentration camps.
.
"Why do I feel I can openly call Ivanka out for her crap? Because she's here to serve the citizenry of this country, which includes me"
WHAT CRAP? What exactly did she do in regard to immigration laws? Hold your Congress responsible for immigration laws, not Ivanka Trump.
"The bigger question here is why are you able to defend this inhumane policy?"
OMG "Mental incapacity" - I in no respect defended the separation of families. Again you just make a statement that makes no sense. Please point out any of my statements that reflect such an opinion. My comment was clear, and directed at you. It called you out as being a disgusting human being for feeling you have the right to insult anyone you please, just because you think you can. My photo stood to show you facts, not cartoons. Your defecting is certainly telling...
YOU OPENED THE SUBJECT. NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION WHY DIDN'T OBAMA FIX THIS THE PROBLEM? The photo proves it certainly occurred on his time in office...
You post a photo with no context and claim it was the same policy. From 2011-2016, there was a surge of 180,000 unaccompanied children from Central America that caused issues with deportation. This was not a policy under Obama to separate families. Sessions announced it as a deterrent to immigration, and it includes asylum seekers as well. Pulling kids away from their parents to try and discourage people from coming to the United States, either legally or illegally. It's disgusting.
When Ivanka is part of a government that puts forth a policy that mirrors what was done in 1930's Germany, both by holding position and by relation, her silence is complicity. You'd think as a Jewish woman, she'd be outraged. As a Mother, outraged. As a human being, outraged. Instead, she's silently complicit. That, in and of itself, should be grounds to call her out. Heck, five former first ladies all came out against the policy.
Obama deported more people than any other president in history. He increased the resources for border security and illegal southern border crossings dropped significantly. So when you ask why Obama didn't fix this problem, you ignore the progress he actually made to improve the situation. Much like how you see all things Obama, complete ignorance to the things he actually did to improve the country.
There you go again, butchering the use of punctuation. But I do appreciate you posting a graph that backs up my statement that Obama increased deportations, especially of criminals.
"Sharlee, while you sit back and ignore the parallels to 1930's Germany, the rest of us are calling out the Trump family policies that lack all manner of humanity and are openly used to profiteer on their position in our government, "
Again how dare you compare this to the horrific tragedy of the Holocaust. There is no resemblance between the two. The people that cross our borders are breaking our laws. They are implicating their children in their crime. They are separated due to the fact our Government is enforcing our laws. Thier case is being quickly reviewed and those that need to be deported are deported with their children. Many of these children are not accompanied by an adult.
Our government needs to close our borders and change existing immigration laws.
The left has tossed out this long existing problem as food for their hysterical sheep. Once again. Why didn't Obama solve this problem? And I note you did not address my comment on the Genocide of the Syrian people. Hundreds of thousands dead MEN WOMEN and CHILDREN! for your crumbs. You have not an inkling of common sense, that is very apparent.
We have nothing more to discuss, I don't respect your opinion on this subject. I find it unacceptable to argue with a person that appears ill-informed. My view that supports following the laws or fixing them. I do not support ignoring them until they become too large to fix. This problem is very old. It just was not noted under Obama, because of people like you did not want to face or deal with it... This makes you a hypocrite. Me, I always found it unacceptable, as did I the genocide of Syrian citizens. How did you feel about genocide and a president that did nothing??? I have good faith Trump will fix this sad problem.
You're a follower, I don't get in that line...
How dare I? How dare the United Nations who also came out and condemned this horrific TRUMP policy that mirrors what the Germans did in the 1930's. Please, provide the law that says someone committing a misdemeanor for crossing the border should have their kids taken away from them, or those seeking asylum should be separated. If you want to talk ill-informed, start by providing some substance pertaining to that.
And not sure why you keep bringing Syria into an immigration discussion about separating kids from their parents? There's no correlation there so I'm not going down that rabbit-hole.
It wasn't noted under Obama? Again, your lack of any knowledge about the actions Obama took to solve the issue are laughable. You are a blind-sheep following a man who lacks humanity, honesty, or the intelligence to solve the issue. You're on the wrong side of history here, that's for sure.
Why is there a correlation between Syria, and children being separated from their parents? Just pointing out the sick hypocrisy on the left. Let me be a bit more clear. The children of Syria were killed via chemical weapons and bombs = dead = separation b death... Is that simple enough? I can realize you do not want to accept that we sat by and witnessed a real Holocaust under Obama. It's part of his history, and can't be denied.
The children at our borders are being separated due to parents using them as pawns to enter the USA illegally. The parents are being immediately jailed until deportation, hence their children can not accompany them to jail. The children are returned to parent and given a free passage back to their countries if they are not found to need asylum.
In regards to our immigration laws. I am not about to take the time to argue our laws with you. Take my word, we have immigration laws that provide penalties such as fines, deportation, and now immediate jail time for crossing the border illegally. No more catch and release while the immigrant waits to be deported. Hopefully, this will work to stop the follow of people using their children as pawns.
I will repeat for the last time, I have no respect for your opinion in regards to the immigration problem. I will admit this is one of the most ridiculous causes the left has taken up in a while. It makes them look as always foolish to anyone that has common sense. It truly shocks me how the left does not realize this kind of family separation at the borders has been going on for a very long time. Many of the centers that children are being housed at are over 15 years old? The surge of using children to get across our borders became epidemic on Obamas time. He just did nothing to fix the problem. He was a do-nothing president. Note the dates on the youtubes. All on Obamas time...There are many if these don't suffice o educate you that this is a problem that became epidemic on Obama's tenure. This is a problem that should have been solved. Not kicked down the road as Obama did. This is a problem is not of Trump's making, but hopefully, he will solve it. The left can point a finger at Trump, but it is clear Obama did nothing to help solve it. These videos offer facts and dates. It's your problem if you choose to ignore them. Me, I never ignored the problem, always recognized what was happening and becoming much worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUTJM435hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYEpB8LfYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOzpvXTmflQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3H_sR-Jfjc
This brings me to my question, which I have asked over and over. You just can't see your way to address it. YOU OPENED THE SUBJECT. NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION WHY DIDN'T OBAMA FIX THIS THE PROBLEM? My question is direct, very simple to understand, so answer it.
I won't be responding any further on this subject. I just can't waste time conversing with someone I find very ill-educated on the true problem, and how long it has been brewing. Plus anyone that would correlate this problem to the Holocaust, is too far gone. No really
lol, according to Stormy, she spent the night with Spanky under false pretenses, he promised her a spot on television then couldn't deliver so she said adios the next day like the competent business person she seems to be leaving Donny Boy with a bruised ego, a red instead of orange face and the crumpled up magazine she used to humiliate him with as a momento: With over 3,000 lies under his belt and a history of delusional behavior, there's no reason not to believe her side and discard his:
She also said essentially she wasn't attracted to him and how could anyone on a jury or a federal judge NOT believe that? It looks like even Melanie finds it difficult to hold his hand:
Torts yes, crimes possible as well given the funneling of cash from his attorney's Michael Cohen's secret LLC to Stormy's attorney, and receipt of suspicious millions from other entities using the very same LLC, and then failure to report said activity on financial forms as required by law and don't forget potential perjury charges if he's compelled to testify under oath, given his reported and documented dishonest and fraudulent history, everyone knows it would be virtually impossible for Mr. Trump to avoid committing a crime under these circumstances:
Who knows what other crimes may be uncovered from the FBIs raid on Cohen properties and this excludes the trove of evidence compiled in the Mueller criminal investigation of Mr. Trump and family:
An impostor president in compromising positions in many different ways, destroying the USA: lol, pretty boring stuff isn't it?
"according to Stormy, she spent the night with Spanky under false pretenses, he promised her a spot on television" You re so funny Jake... Do you know what that's called? It's called Prostitution. Which I am very that how she makes her living. Money, a part in a TV show, same thing.
"competent business person she seems to be". OMG are you making a joke? Her job consists of doing the same thing she did with Trump. have sex with, however.
The rest of your comment is in no way based in fact... Not worth commenting on.
Well Sharlee01, at least we're making progress with your admission that Spanky Trump according ot Stormy, did indeed spend a night with Stormy as disgusting as she indicated it was:
Yes, or course, Stormy is a porn actress which means she acts in porn, but one of the differences I'd have to assume is that she probably wasn't repulsed by her co-actors in the movies and once again we'd have to assume they didn't have orange skin, didn't wear some kind of yellow sea creature on their heads and were not ugly on the inside just like the outside:
Just curious, but how can an LLC be considered "secret" what incorporation papers, addresses, officers, etc. are all a matter of public record and available to anyone that looks?
I understand how it can be claimed to be secret - claims are a dime a dozen and require nothing but a lack of ethics to make - but how can it actually be considered so by reasonable, thinking people?
Not sure you realize, it was not me that became bored with the subject of the thread? Pretty much seems you are the only one even commenting on a stale subject. Move on, Stormy's 15 minutes is over. Actually, you may want to move on.
Sharlee01: lol, I find it hard to believe you are bored with the subject:
But just because you claim to be bored doesn't mean anyone else is, as a matter of fact, stick around, this subject is just getting started because unless something drastic happens, like another act of obstruction of justice by Spanky to pardon his close associate Michael Cohen or something else unforeseen occurs, Michael is expected to be indicted very soon and when that happens, don't be to shocked if you immediately see airforce one, or in Spanky's case 'Kremlin One' with the evil one and family aboard, take off headed for asylum in Moscow:
Isn't Spanky already planning a visit to Putie? We may want to keep an eye on how much luggage he packs on Air Force One. It could be a one-way trip if things get a bit worse or a few more Russian/crony connections are revealed.
Reading about someone's hallucinations is about as interesting as listening to someone tell you what they dreamed last night. It might be of some fleeting interest, but mostly it's just boring and irrelevant.
Your posts could be of some interest to mental health professionals, I suppose, if they happened to be interested in case studies of mental deterioration, manic-depressive disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorders, and the proverbial "psychotic break," where one loses touch with reality.
Most of us, having no professional interest in such matters, would just as soon NOT look at the drainage of your mental cysts and ulcerations, and those little biopsies of diseased psychic matter you offer for our consideration.
The political forum trolls who expect anything like this to happen , should crawl back into your sophomoric sleeping blankies , your safe space sleep cubbies , Why ? Close your story time mainstream media children's book and read about the history of presidential impeachments or arrests .
Oh ,............and grow up .
Jake, this subject is simply too damaging to those on the right, especially those who claim to be religious and have family values and morals. After giving Bill such a hard time, they simply want to gloss over Spanky's immoral character as if it doesn't exist. They can go to the old fallback excuse that, "He's been born again" and is no longer a sinner. Bwaaahahahahaha!
Hitler comparisons ?
I think that liberals who compare Trump's enforcement of U.S. Law and immigration policies to Hitler's treatment in WWII is outrageous , short sighted and totally lacking of ANY insight to Hitler's REAL acts against humanity . I can't even use the wording here to describe how shallow the comparisons without getting booted from forums .
Suggestion ; Anyone who compares the two ---go read a history book , google it , get informed , even ask someone to google it for you if you're actually THAT lazy . But grow up ---because there is a major difference .
I don't see it as is outrageous , short sighted or totally lacking of ANY insight.
Instead it is just foolish, for it is obviously meant as a shock factor to raise emotions devoid of reason. For anyone possessing the reasoning skills of a 5 year old it is only foolish, for no one in their right mind can do anything but laugh. The desired shock, anger and disgust are not part of the reaction.
So Trump just withdrew us from the human rights counsel so he could violate the rights of migrant children.
I'm sorry - when did it happen that incarcerated criminals retain all their rights? Rights like freedom to move about, freedom to buy what is desired, freedom to wear what clothing is desired? And freedom to have their children with them?
When did that happen? Because I certainly missed the event!
Long overdue... This very council did Zero for the men, women, and children that were slaughtered in Syria. ZERO. I appreciate this gesture in lieu of how little they accomplish in times of true tragedy. I appreciate having a president that will take on the hard task of solving problems. Not flying below the radar.
And once again why all the uproar. No indignation when this problem became an epidemic problem on Obama's time. Hopefully, you watched the youtubes I sent you and noted the dates on them. You are clearly a hypocrite. Take your head out of the sand, pull your fingers out of your ears, stop humming and face facts. You might be surprised and liberation it is to take in real facts, not propaganda.
You're right of course , it is just the shock factor the left uses successfully , even against their own , Ingredients ;
Shock + Group thought = conformity to one thought .
This is good, because Obama and his "crew" may all need their Birth certificates. Looks like many of them will be indited, for lots of wrongdoing... LOL McCabe taking the fifth, can't wait until he is given immunity. It will be great to see the Obama house of cards fall.
Somehow, I'm not shocked that you are a Birther conspiracy nut.
First, "Somehow, I'm not shocked that you are a Birther conspiracy nut."
Where in the hell would you even get that idea? Have I at any time posted a comment that remotely brought up that subject? You are really out there.. OMG This is the dumbest thing you have yet to accuse me of without any information that would work to prove such a ridiculous accusation. I just have to ask another question. Where would you ever come up with such an allegation or is this just another one of your insults that makes absolutely no sense? My god do you ever come up for a breather? It is no way to live.. LOL
I never joined in on the birther movement because there was never any form of facts to prove Obama was born elsewhere. It was clear he was a citizen. You see, once again I like to consider the facts before giving an opinion, unlike you. You although once again feel you can assume, and insult. It's very apparent you either don't read my comments or have a lack of the ability to comprehend my comments. It is very clear I never join in hysteria or believe red is red even though I can see it's purple. I never make comparisons that are ridiculous and have no correlation such as your ridiculous statement referring to illegally separating children from parents that have broken our laws and are jailed to that of the Holocaust. It's beyond me how anyone could make that comparison. Have you any idea what a concentration camp is or looks like? What did they do to human beings? You have no right to make such a glib comparison. I in my travels I toured Auschwitz . The children in Auschwitz were killed within hours of arrival. They were not held to later reunite with parents that broke the law and used them as pawns. They were not fed, clothed, and given beds to sleep in. They were not kept safe. They were killed... Do you see how ridiculous your comparison truly is? You are listening to propaganda, and like a parrot repeating it. Your statements always tend to prove you follow what you hear, even though much of hat is ridiculous and does not make any form of sense. You can't think for yourself. This is a disgusting trait, that many find disgusting.
I think the above-mentioned attributes show a lack of intelligence. A lack of being smart enough to see the truth, given facts, and think for yourself. You see if you are going to insult someone, you do need to have a reason and some forms proof to back up your insult. Birther? This one is laughable. Where the hell did you come up with that one?
I will not be commenting any longer on your posts. So have at it... Not worth my time.
OH, one more thing, your brother by another mother "jake" just comment on the Nazi stuff you ascribe too. So, you now have a "good bud" to share your opinion. Very clear you are well suited to discuss any given subject. LOL "WOW! BIG NEWS !!! Holy BATMAN"... Yeah very well suited.
You literally write 'Obama and his crew may need their birth certificates' and wonder where I come to the conclusion that you're a birther nut case. Seriously?
You need to get your memory checked if you can't remember racist stuff you wrote just three hours earlier.
Valeant,
"You literally write 'Obama and his crew may need their birth certificates' and wonder where I come to the conclusion that you're a birther nut case. Seriously?"
Is it now very clear you don't comprehend? Where in the above statement do I accuse Obama or his crew of not possessing birth certificates? Please explain how you come to such a conclusion. You make it very hard not to point out your lack of ability to understand a sentence.
"You need to get your memory checked if you can't remember racist stuff you wrote just three hours earlier."
I have never posted a racist comment. Ever... If you can find an example, please post it. In regards to a racist comment. I know you will not comprehend this, however, your little cartoon projecting a Jewish woman (Ivanka Trump) making an attempt to promote garments that Jews were made to wear in concentration camps. Do you actually feel this example not to be racists? I have to say, you are some piece of work.
Go ahead and explain why you combine Obama and a need for a birth certificate then. Odd reference that really only has one correlation, and that's the birther movement.
So, Ivanka, who converted to the religion of Judaism, was born to Donald (American) and Ivana (Czechoslovakian). Yes, she convert to, and practices that religion. No, she was not born Jewish. Pretty big difference.
OMG are you crazy? Judaism is a religion no one is born a Jewish. It's a religion, not a nationality. Last I heard there was no such religion as Czechoslovakian? I do know Czechoslovakian's can follow the religion of Judaism, as well as American's. Again, do you read your comments, ever? They get more ridiculous?
"So, Ivanka, who converted to the religion of Judaism, was born to Donald (American) and Ivana (Czechoslovakian). Yes, she converts to, and practices that religion. No, she was not born Jewish. Pretty big difference."
MY comment on Obama and his crew was a "funny" referring to the several investigations that are going on. Comey, Lynch, McCabe, and the entire crew. You get it No mention about the birther scandal. AS I also pointed out immediately, and in length, I did not buy into the birther movement...
You accused me of racism when Ivanka converted to a religion. See the difference there? That's my point.
And you still failed to explain why you mentioned birth certificates in the first place. I'm glad you say you don't believe in the birther conspiracy theory, just odd that you mention Obama and birth certificates then.
You referred to a Jewish woman trying to profit from selling garments that were worn by Jews in concentration camps. You not only showed a form of racism but offered your derogatory opinion that portrays Jewish people as "money mongers". Inferring Ivanka would do anything to make money. You should really drop this subject. You provided your view of Jediism very well with your disgusting cartoon. It appears you prefer to dig yourself in deeper and deeper? When you choose to be controversial don't expect all to let it slide. The cartoon you posted speaks loudly of your bias attitude, and lack of common sense. IT's a shame you can't remove it. However, it does prove one has the right to freedom of speech. No matter their views.
"Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews. A person who holds such positions is called an antisemite. Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism. It has also been characterized as a political ideology which serves as an organizing principle and unites disparate groups which are opposed to liberalism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928
Valeant's conversations, like Jake's, are mostly with the voices in their heads.
You mean voices like these? So what kind of non perscriptive medications must you be swallowing to become as incoherent and delusional as this soon to be locked up moron?
Is it just his mental illness or is this weirdo gulping down drugs by the handful?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elhyo-_fR0E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA
Jake, you presume too much. I don't ascribe to any unprovoked personal attacks. Be it you making them or the president. As always you come at me with a ridiculous insult, you open a door to respond to your ridiculous comments.
Sharlee01, if you track the comments backward which is easy to do, you'll discover my last response was directed at blueheron's nonsensical post, not your's unless of course you and her are one in the same:
Anyway, Michael Cohen has already 'flipped' as expected and even he has condemned Bozo Trump's horrendous crimes against humanity at the border for whatever it's worth: God will punish him dearly for that:
Children are being abused and mentally assaulted by this orange idiot and the Presbyterian Church has excommunicated him ahead of his impeachment and indictment: Where's charlatan Jerry Falwell Junior?
More catastrophic news for cowardly weakling El Duce Donny:
"CNN: Cohen Willing to Give Info on Trump, Business Dealings"
"Michael Cohen is considering providing information on President Donald Trump and his business dealings to special counsel Robert Mueller's office as he feels "let down and isolated by," the president, according to Cohen's friends who spoke with CNN."
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/micha … id/867159/
Considering that the Trump family is willing to fight for a Chinese company (ZTE) that the United States accused of espionage to get money for a Trump development and Ivanka trademarks in China, the point the cartoon makes that the Trump family goes to great lengths for a profit seems more than relevant. Is it in poor taste, absolutely. Just like Trump's policy that violates the human rights of immigrant children.
Nothing either us says from this point is really going to change our views on each other. You think there was some deeper meaning in my post and I believe there was some in yours, regardless of neither of us having said intent. So we can keep hammering away at each other or move on.
No, deflect here bud... Your posts speak loudly... And let me remind you. Obama did not work on the problem of children and parents being separated. In fact, a judge stepped in due to deplorable conditions at his centers... I posted youtube that showed actual visits to the immigrant holding centers for children. They were disgusting! Wake up to the fact Clinton, Bush, and Obama did nothing but turn a blind eye to this very horrible problem. Trump is fixing it... And you should be ashamed not to recognize that. Do you have a mental problem you would like to share or are you just illiterate to the truth when it is right in front of your eyes? Have a look at the facts, have a look at what Obama was capable of turning a blind eye.
If you need further education on the subject I have many more videos. Thank God My President Is making every attempt to fix these atrocities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaM_opNkjIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UhnHxyn4hU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1r9SliaNCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ConcjhnGjmc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJaiNEv09k
Don't bother responding to my comments. It is very apparent we have very different views. Thank God...
So let's go over Trump's solution to the legal right of people coming to ports of entry to seek asylum from the violence to the south of the United States. To slow down the process so they never get their case heard and to violate the human rights of children. If you call that fixing the problem, you're as inhumane as he is.
And when there's an influx of 180,000 children from 2011-2016 because of parents sending their children to safety because of violent fighting in Central America and international law requires the United States to hear their cases for asylum, what exactly is the solution to that?
Perhaps the process would speed up considerably were it not for the hordes of lawyers training those folks to cry out "Asylum!" whether they meet refugee status or not? I'd guess that 90+% of them don't, but they are still being taught to make the claim anyway - anything to beat the system.
Are you under the impression that the United States is responsible for the support, care and protection of all the peoples of the world? No other nation takes that position - why should the US?
The naivete of the obstructionists is that the blame for this is all somehow Trumps , Geee ah , .....Do you think maybe there were illegals detained before Trump ?
Don't worry though unlike others ; He will and is cleaning this mess up.
Not my position at all. But according to international law that we agreed to through the United Nations, we need to hear each case of someone seeking asylum. Not slow down the process to avoid hearing them, as is happening now. Nor take away people's children while they wait to get a hearing.
If their case is denied, they are deported, and then they are caught violating our immigration law, I'm just fine enforcing the law.
How many resources does that law require that we provide to hear thousands and thousands of frivolent cases? Again, other nations do not seem to think the law requires unlimited resources - why should we? If tens of thousands of people wish to make claims that are not true, we will hear them all...in time. There doesn't seem to be a reason, ethically or legally, to do so in a couple of days. Or weeks. Or, given what we are seeing, in years.
What is YOUR suggestion as to what to do with the children of those being detained (and turning them and their children loose to disappear into the country is not an answer)?
What did Obama do? Maybe Trump could do that? Oh forgot he caused the problem and did ZIP about it LOL how did you like those vile videos? Over 500,000 Syrian men, women, and children killed as Obama did once again ZERO. Trump will reform immigration, and quickly. Because he solves problems, not hide from them.
We have millions of people flowing illegally into the US. The estimated number of illegals as of 2017 was 12.5 million--which is probably a gross underestimation.
Cross-border flows on this scale, are not "immigration." They are invasion, and should be treated as an act of war. Historically, invasions on such a scale have always been recognized as an act of war.
One does not "process" invaders for admission; one repels them, with military force, if necessary.
Many of those who are here illegally, came here illegally and then overstayed their visa. Studies have that number as high as 42% of the total undocumented population and as high as 66% in a single year (2014). So, to say this 12.5 million was a 'flow,' might not be stating the issue accurately.
While adding additional resources to the southern border is fine, spending a ridiculous amount of money on a wall for 33-58% of illegal crossings just doesn't seem to be the best use of the money. Better tracking and enforcement of those currently here temporarily might be just as effective.
Yeah, he caused all the violence in Central America that led to the mass migration North. Totally in his control. Got it. And he shot Kennedy. And broke into Watergate. Orchestrated Iran-Contra. Fabricated intel that led to the Iraq invasion. Tell us again how violating the human rights of children, getting called out on it by the entire world, and then having to rescind his horrific policy is problem solving.
I didn't quite understand why the people said they feared for their lives. Then I looked up the Northern Triangle: Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.
Central America’s Violent Northern Triangle
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/centra … n-triangle
A friend at church is from Nicarauga. There is turmoil going on there right now. The government is corrupt. Nicarauga is supposed to be a democracy; however, the president is a Communist. His wife made herslf the vice president. His daughter is secretary of state or something like that.
The best answer would be to stop the corruption where it is; however, that would mean the US getting involved, possibly with war, in other countries.
Bottom line, the struggle is real. The majority of the people coming here are running away. They have had family members killed. Gangs forcibly take girls into prostituion. Yesterday I heard of a gang leader taking an 11 year old girl as his girlfriend.
There should be a resolution to the violence and mayhem. In the meantime, the people desperately need help.
These people do need help and should walk right up to a legal border crossing, and would be helped legally. This situation is dire, and our immigration laws need changing to provide the help to those that need it. The many that pour in illegally that are not in true need, make it worse for those that truly are being persecuted in their own homelands. Our immigration system is broken and needs fixing. Our Congress needs to step up and solve this horrific problem.
Once again Why didn't Obama fix it? Do you need those Youtubes again to check how Obama handled the problem? Don't fret we now have a problem solver in office. Please have a second look at the atrocities in the detention centers under Obama. Maybe time to deflect back to something your psyche can handle. LOL. Facts are so hard to handle, are they not? Al the fluffy BS in your comment is a very poor example of a good deflection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUTJM435hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYEpB8LfYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOzpvXTmflQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3H_sR-Jfjc
The entire left seems more than willing to look right past the abuses of these children in actually walking them hundreds of miles through a desert with drug dealers , human sex traffickers , gang members and EVEN the desert elements alone . THAT is actually abuse , not a system having to deal with something Obama , Bush , Clinton didn't !!!!!!!!!!!!
Well-Horse, all they need to do is check out the videos I posted. A video is worth a thousand words, is it not? Could the liberal left look more foolish? Yeah, I am sure they could and will...
FACT : This entire immigration era IS MOSTLY the fault of 16 years of liberal leadership in the white house and uncounted majorities of senate , WHAT DID THEY EVER DO but sign up executive ordered AHCA , welfare , food stamp and jobs creation entitlements and kick the can of illegal immigration down the road to "others " .
In the construction trade contract writing where I served a partial career , We always had written contract work exceptions written as " All other work by others "..........
The FULL -mantra of the Obama senate and congress !
Worry not however , Trump has arrived !
I can't believe this question is still going strong; and not sure how it changed to the subject of immigration... But, the most obvious response to the original question is, "If this was a scandal Obama had been involved in, T-fans would care. A LOT!" LoL!
Immigration has been a problem for every President; and there is no way that this problem will be solved anytime soon - and certainly not with a 'zero tolerance policy'. People will always have minds of their own; and move where they believe they can get a better life - whether that is actually true, or not. Treating them not much better than cattle is a big ding against us, as a nation.
If that makes you proud, more temporary power to ya. I'm as sick of T-fans, as I am of their Grand Poopah. I wrote a review to a show on Amazon a few days ago that mentioned (one thing out of many) that [imo] the writers overused and sensationalized an unnecessary gang rape that was not required to tell the story... And got ganged up on by a few of your kind who insisted that I was an 'indoctrinated feminazi that hates all men' - literally, several paragraphs each, in all caps. It was some of the most hateful bs that I have heard, yet.
Everyone is so brave behind the masks of their computer monitors, tablets and cell phones. You're all so sure of what you're sure of - and the rest of us are just nazis, or at the very least, unpatriotic.
F*ck you all. I don't care if Trump becomes instrumental in solving world peace AND world hunger. He will never ever EVER have my respect - and neither will you - JUST because of his lunatic groupies and the hate he has inspired & cultivated among us. It hasn't even SORT of been worth it.
diane, Michael Cohen has essentially 'flipped' which is a mega bombshell for the entire cowardly Trump family: Once he starts spilling the beans, the only refuge the Trump's will ever find is probably in Honduras, Guatemala or El Salvador: I wonder what happens when he struggles to make it back to the U.S. Mexican Border?
As a matter of fact, that's probably the nightmare he faces once the forces of evil take him an eternity of a vicious cycle of being dropped off in El Salvador, his gruesome trek to the U.S. Mexican border only to be turned away: A vicious non stop cycle of hell:
Sharlee01: Your hatred of the Clintons and President Obama will never hold up in a court of law as a valid defense of cowardly Mr. Trump: Just because your animus is seething, it doesn't absolve the Trump's of their crimes against humanity or his adulterous oe night stands with Stormy etc:
Michael Cohen has 'flipped' and that's nothing less than a mega bombshell for the weirdo Trumps:
Jake, I don't hate Obama or Clinton. I dislike how they chose not to handle our growing immigration problem. I have presented facts that give very good proof in regards to the immigration centers that were provided during Obama's 8 years. Let me once again post them for your personal viewing Enjoy
A video is worth a thousand years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaM_opNkjIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UhnHxyn4hU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1r9SliaNCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ConcjhnGjmc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJaiNEv09k
Sharlee - do you not see a difference between children being sent here on their own and a government policy that separates them from their parents?
When there are surges in immigration numbers, conditions are going to be poor due to staff and space issues. Not sure that's really on Obama so much as with the situation of so many needing asylum due to the violence in their own countries. That's pretty much reality.
Growing immigration problem? There were more deportations under Obama, less undocumented immigrants in the country, and more resources devoted. Again, your blind hatred of the man makes you ignorant to the steps he actually took.
The US has no responsibility to "fix" the problems of poverty, corruption, and violence in other countries. (Historically, US intervention in other countries has invariably been in support of brutal dictatorships.) Life is very unpleasant in much of Latin America, Africa, India, Pakistan, and the Middle East.
The notion that we need to go in with guns blazing and "fix" other countries' problems is...um...well beyond problematic.
Our responsibility is to secure our borders, protect our own people, and maintain our own civilization.
Attempting to solve the problems of the world's oppressed and impoverished peoples by moving them all the US is not a particularly productive approach. If all the poor and oppressed peoples of the world were admitted to the US, our population would approach seven billion.
As I said before, in a comment that has apparently been "disappeared," when millions of people enter the US illegally (estimated to be 12.5 million in 2017), what we are confronting is not "immigration," but invasion. Government policy should reflect this reality. Invasions should and MUST be turned back.
We need to stop calling this an immigration problem. Immigration laws are irrelevant in the face of outside invasion. The applicable laws are those that relate to military conflict in confronting invasion.
Invasion is an act of war.
It likely got disappeared because your '12.5 million people entering the US illegally is 2017' is about as Trumpian as you can get. Those are the estimated total undocumented in the United States, not the total that came here in 2017.
So, there are around 325 million people living in the Unites States. 12 Million is 3.6% of the population. That sure is some invasion.
Valeant, 15.2% of the US population consists of foreign-born and foreign citizens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcMd92XqlKY
Did you really just post a Youtube video that's an hour and twenty minutes long and expect me to watch that?
So now you're against legalized immigration too? Why even bring that stat into the discussion?
Breaking BIG ******** : Mega Bombshell: As expected, Michael Cohen, weakling Donald Hitler's personal attorney, is prepared to 'flip' driving the Black House into a panic: Stormy Daniels, Michael Avenatti and everything criminal is about to explode into a million beautiful pieces:
This news couldn't have come at a more opportune time with weakling Donald Hitler's inhumane crime against humanity currently occurring at the American border where children including toddlers are being segregated from parents, an unconscionable atrocity which occurred in Nazi Germany: Yes, believe it or not, you heard that correctly:
So long Donny, glad I won't be meeting you in hell:
"Trump's personal attorney is 'willing to give info' about the President"
"Washington (CNN)Donald Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen has signaled to friends that he is "willing to give" investigators information on the President if that's what they are looking for, and is planning on hiring a new lawyer to handle a possible indictment from federal prosecutors.
"He knows a lot of things about the President and he's not averse to talking in the right situation," one of Cohen's New York friends who is in touch with him told CNN. "If they want information on Trump, he's willing to give it."
Breaking BIG ******** : Even Michael Cohen condemns Mr. Trump's crimes against humanity by abusing children at the border:
"CNN: Cohen Willing to Give Info on Trump, Business Dealings"
Michael Cohen is considering providing information on President Donald Trump and his business dealings to special counsel Robert Mueller's office as he feels "let down and isolated by," the president, according to Cohen's friends who spoke with CNN.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/micha … id/867159/
Breaking BIG ******** Developing NOW : According to stunning info revealed by investigative reports, it looks like Michael Cohen wasn't practicing as a REAL lawyer after all: Only 8 out of 292,226 items investigated by a federal judge qualifies as 'privileged' : WoW:
"Judge to Michael Cohen: Only Eight Communications Are Protected by Attorney-Client Privilege"
"Manhattan Federal Court Judge Kimba Wood issued an order on Friday determining that only eight items of communication, out of some 292,226 seized by the FBI from Michael Cohen’s office and home, were protected by attorney-client privilege. Last week, Barbara Jones, a retired federal judge who was appointed as the special master to oversee the documents, determined that only 162 items were privileged. Only eight of those, according to Wood, involved direct consultation between Cohen and one of his clients. Cohen, a longtime attorney and friend of President Trump’s, is being investigated for possible wire fraud, bank fraud and potential violations of campaign finance law."
I wonder if Donald has escaped to Moscow yet? Seems kind of suspicious to set up a meeting with his master Vladimir Putin as his entire fake world collapses around him: Is he working out asylum instructions perhaps? Keep a very close eye on air force one, or in Mr. Trump's case, Satan's Red Hot Carriage:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/judge-to- … -privilege
Reuters June 22, 2018
Here are the facts Jake. So far there are o communications between Cohen and Trump. (161 are privileged and seven of them are communications between Cohen and a client containing legal advice). I realize you have a hard time excepting facts, but I just can see m way clear to not set you straight.
"A review of documents seized from U.S. President Donald Trump's longtime personal lawyer Michael Cohen has so far turned up only a handful of communications between Cohen and his clients, a federal judge said in a written order on Friday.
Cohen's home and office were raided in April as part of a criminal investigation by Manhattan federal prosecutors. HE HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME.
Out of nearly 300,000 items reviewed so far, 161 are privileged and seven of them are communications between Cohen and a client containing legal advice, according to an order from U.S. District Judge Kimba Wood on Friday confirming findings by the special master. The order said most of the documents were communications between Cohen and his lawyers.
Lawyers for Cohen and Trump could not immediately be reached for comment.
Wood appointed a special master to review the documents before turning them over to prosecutors after lawyers for Cohen and Trump said they might include privileged attorney-client communications, which prosecutors are normally not allowed to see.
Prosecutors said in an April court filing that they believed Cohen was "performing little to no legal work" and that they were primarily investigating his personal business dealings.
Most of the roughly 3.7 million items seized from Cohen are still under review.
On Friday, Wood ordered Cohen's lawyers to identify for the special master, former federal judge Barbara Jones, by June 27 any remaining items they believe are privileged."
https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1JI2ZP
ACLU lawyer sides with Trump lawyer Michael Cohen
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … -documents
Lawyer reviewing Cohen documents submits $338,000 bill
This Lawyer is the only one that won in this battle... LOL
http://www.morning-times.com/state_news … 25148.html
You're making the case against Mr. Trump for me Sharlee01: If only a few items are considered 'privileged' by the federal judge that means Mr. Cohen was not acting in an attorney client capacity between he and Donny and therefore we need to investigate what exactly he was doing for Donny and where all that suspicious money in the millions ended up, remember all that cash funneled from Cohen's secret LLC to Stormy's former attorney and wherever?
Did cash funneled through Cohen's LLC end up in Donald Mussolini's pocket or bank account or offshore stash place? We'll soon find out because Michael Cohen for all intent and purposes, has 'flipped' against the biggest perpetrator of crimes against humanity in U.S. history: Will this be flushed out in the 'Trump Tribunals'?
"FBI raid reveals how little Michael Cohen works as a lawyer"
https://nypost.com/2018/06/22/fbi-raid- … -a-lawyer/
Jake stated - "You're making the case against Mr. Trump for me Sharlee01: If only a few items are considered 'privileged' by the federal judge that means Mr. Cohen was not acting in an attorney client capacity between he and Donny"
It's clear you just do not understand Judge Kimba's order of her findings, so far.
District Judge Kimba ordered all 161 are privileged and seven of the 161 are were sited to be communications between Cohen and a client containing nothing but legal advice. ( the client's name in these 7 documents is privileged). All 161 are privileged and would not be available in the case of an indictment to a prosecuting attorney. The judge's order also stipulated most of the 161 documents were communications between Cohen and his own lawyers. Cohen has as of yet to be charged with a crime.
Jake, you don't seem to be understanding the judge's order? That's unfortunate. If Cohen is charged with a crime we will then have something to discuss. I don't buy into all the if come rhetoric.
I think Jake's got it just fine. Only 148 of 291,770 items found on two phones and an IPad were deemed privileged. Of the hard copy material, only 14 of the 639 items were privileged. That leaves 292,000 documents, texts, and e-mails as not falling under privilege.
That judge must be part of the deep state, right?
It's clear we are viewing the judge's decision differently. I am not reading into what is in the remaining information that the prosecutors will be allowed to view. I am looking at what is factual so far. If Cohen broke any form of laws that he can be charged with. he will be. My point, rhetoric is just that. (language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience). I would think that if the prosecutor finds anything to warn inditing Cohen in the seized information he will not drag his feet. He will indite him.
As I said to Jake in my Comment. If Cohen is charged with a crime, we will then have something to discuss. Until then, there actually is nothing to discuss. It's rhetoric, condemning anyone before there is some form of proof of a crime is disgusting. I guess some except that kind of justice. I don't. If he committed a crime, he deserves his day in court. Especially today with so many "hang him first" type out there. I choose to be separated myself from those types.
And your little "Deep State" dig. It was just that 'little". I never ascribed to deep state theories, and If you are referring to the Obama administration deep state that many are into. I am not sure there could have been a dumber bunch to labeled a deep state? I am interested to see where the ongoing investigations into the Obama administrations FBI and DOJ lead.
Your delusion is amazing. Unless there was ample evidence of a crime, there's no way they would have gotten the initial warrant to search the home and office of a lawyer, especially the lawyer for someone who is president. An indictment (that's how you spell that word) is all but certain based on that fact alone. But stay in denial, it's one of Trump supporters' best features.
Correction ?.......:-]
Obama deep state ? Yes , you are right , no one there was actually too politically bright ................except ! When we get to the brilliance of the Obama leftover government institutional obstructionists and Clinton election loss resisters , .......then they seemed to have gained at least just enough intelligence to really screw things up royally........;-]
Thanks Valeant: Sharlee01 doesn't seem to understand the fact that both Donald and Michael claimed to have a client attorney relationship yet only a tiny fraction of the thousands of pieces of evidence confiscated in the FBI raid of his properties and then investigated by the federal judge were classified as 'privileged': How strange, if Cohen were a real lawyer it would presumably be the opposite result:
Here's something to ponder: Trump reportedly has never used E*Mail: How strange: WHY? Unless you have mountains of evidence to conceal, who else refrains from using E*Mail?:
His law school in Michigan is getting bad publicity from this. It looks like they will take anyone. I think it is good to give people a chance. However, I would expect results as attorneys to be comparable to at least the average attorney. What is average? Someone who worked as a deputy prosecutor, legal aid attorney, worked for an attorney firm, private practice, contracts manager, etc.
I'm not quite sure he ever really practiced. DJT now says, "Not my attorney!"
Misfit chick says the immigration problem can't be solved with a "zero tolerance" policy. If someone enters your home illegally, it is generally conceded that you should have zero tolerance for this, and that it would be entirely reasonable for you to call the cops and have them taken into custody. You would probably do this even if they had kids (from whom they would be separated while in jail), and even if they brought their kids with them while they were breaking and entering. You would probably call the cops even if they entered your home illegally without offering violence, but merely demanded that you let them move in with you and feed them and house them for free.
Complaining of "treating them like cattle"--after they entered your home illegally--is like a housebreaker entering your home illegally, refusing to leave (deciding to squat on your property), and then complaining about the accommodations.
I suggest that Misfit Chick put these lofty principles to work in her own life. If she lives in a house in a safe neighborhood, clearly she is "privileged" and should be required to offer up her home as a safe place of residence to a nice family of refugees from violence-infested Detroit or Baltimore. Even if--or perhaps especially if--the enter her home illegally and uninvited.
As long as you apply the same principle. A zero tolerance policy is going to need more man-power to patrol the border, even if it's a wall along the border. I suggest you pack a bag and head down south and start standing a shift.
That would be purpose of our military--defending our borders. Odd that we have the most powerful military in the world, but we cannot defend our borders.
Are those coming to the southern border attacking? The military doesn't exist to enforce the law.
Saw an interview with border patrol yesterday where the reporter was told, after commenting on the bulletproof vest, that they are shot at and attacked every day. Multiple times.
That some trespassers do not shoot at the cops is not a reason to imply that no one is attacking across our southern border. Or that the "cops" should take full precautions to prevent their own death when (when - not if) they ARE attacked.
That concept goes over their heads Val., as do many parts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You don't say to which concept you are referring, either as it relates to illegal entry into the US or as it relates to the Constitution.
We would be happy to discuss whatever elusive concept you have in mind, if you would care to tell us what it is. I suspect you can name no such concept, or that said concept does not actually exist.
While the nation is preoccupied with outrage at Mr. Trump's continued insane crimes against humanity, where this evil bozo is detaining and caging innocent children by the thousands in internment style camps, let's not forget about the massive trove of evidence pointing toward innumerable additional crimes:
So many layers of bad news for the Trump family, we almost neglected to mention this stunning new development which involves Trump, Cohen and Pecker, and also Stormy and her attorney extraordinaire Michael Avenatti: I find it difficult to believe that any judge could possibly determine the National Enquirer to be a legitimate 'news outlet':
Breaking BIG ******** :
"Report: Prosecutors subpoena National Enquirer records in Michael Cohen investigation"
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/20/media/n … index.html
"NEWS FLASH "
"BREAKING BIG TIME NEWS "
Stormy goes to border to save illegal immigration children from being eaten alive by the Donald , actually blocking the condiment trucks !
WOW - Horse thanks for the update! I wonder where she was? Have not seen her or her creepy porn attorney for weeks... I know in one of her TV interviews she said she wanted to make her daughter proud of her. I mean her daughter only has to google image her mom, to see just what she is up to. So many wonderful images of her and her co-stars. Yes, Stormy should be nominated for mother of the year. LOL
Sharklee , Um ...........Stormy AND her attorney are at the border together as I speak !..............Something going on there !....Wouldn't you say ?
Please tell me you are kidding? Perhaps she thinks she can grab 15 minutes more?
Yeah, and perhaps Bozo Trump thinks he can grab 15 more minutes of her:
JUST A REMINDER OF OBAMAS RED LINE, AND HOW HE TURNED HIS BACK ON MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN... But Obama did not fat shame women.
Yeah, well Jake's repeated posting of a meme about Trump "fat shaming" women remind us that our president has from time to time said things that are impolite.
Your concern is duly noted.
So sad he comes in second to Obama when it comes to "inhumanity". Obama still holds the trophy for the most inhumane president. 500,000 Syrian men, woman. and children killed due turning his back on them, ignoring their suffering. It's called genocide. Obamas flawed immigration policies don't hold a candle to his "Red Line" in the sand fiasco. However, here are the videos once again to remind you of Obamas internment camps, when he was handling the problem. The problem he left for president Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaM_opNkjIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UhnHxyn4hU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1r9SliaNCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ConcjhnGjmc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJaiNEv09k
Now, this is what I call a crime against humanity.
For your sake Sharlee01, when Bozo Trump and his entire family are indicted and stand before the court, I sure hope he has a better defense than simple hatred of President Obama because it just doesn't work:
"Your honor, Bozo Trump is innocent because we HATE President Obama"
The conspiracy widens:
"Federal investigators probing Michael Cohen subpoena the publisher of the Trump-friendly National Enquirer"
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael- … her-2018-6
No hate just pointing out ugly facts, as you do daily. But, it's a bit different. Trump is doing a good job, and working toward solving problems. You insult him needlessly. But Obama, it's very easy to state ugly facts about him. Because he did some really ugly things. I realize they are hard for you to face. But, that's not my problem, that's yours. No hate, just disgust, lack of respect.
What facts? That a migration surge occurred on his watch and he requested more money to accommodate that and help make living conditions better. Or that he was leery to commit troops to Syria because the US had just fought a war in the middle east based on fabricated intelligence that had cost us over 3,000 American lives.
Your historical perspective is terribly ignorant when it comes to analyzing these issues and your hatred for the man is more telling with every post.
We are looking at the same situation very differently. The liberals are screaming from the rooftops about immigrants that are breaking our laws, and due to breaking our laws being separated from their children. I have pointed out very clearly that we as American citizens were made to sit by and witnessed genocide. There is absolutely no excuse that could ever convince me that if we would have had a president that upheld our country's moral values, and stepped in to stop this form of aggression and slaughter, many of human beings would be alive. You're a hypocrite you find it easy to stand on a soapbox and belittle president Trump. When in reality he is doing a good job solving hard problems that have been in need of solving for a very long time. You accuse me of hating Obama, and for what? Pointing out facts. You can make all the excuses you please to justify your opinion of him. Some posts back I pointed out and gave good references in regard to historians opinions of Obama. As a rule, historians are truthful and honest. In the end, history will not be kind to a man that did such a poor job. So many died due to his major mistake in Syria. He faltered for the better part of his presidency.
"Your historical perspective'. Yours is seen through rose-colored glasses. Obama had the entire middle east in turmoil. Need I also mention his laying low attitude that prevailed even as Russia annexed Crimea, invaded eastern Ukraine, and ended up propping up Assad in Syria. Am I well versed on Obama's horrendous foreign policies or should I say lack of? You toss words around with abandonment, but they are vague lack substance. It's very apparent you are flighty of thought, easily made to grasp an opinion that suits your ideology. Glib insults never show one's intelligence on any given subject. It just shows you know little about the subject but insists on commenting.
If Trump makes mistakes I will view his mistakes by there severity, as I did Obama. I will also give full credit where it is due. Time will tell. So far so good...
I actually read that whole article by the ten historians. They were very critical of Congress and I noted only a few critiques of Obama in there. But somehow you came away thinking he was a terrible president from that article. I'm still not sure how that could have happened based on the 'facts' of that article. Even though they were more opinions and not facts, as you claim and many said it would take more time to render where Obama ranks.
Help me understand how you're so convinced we should have invaded Syria to stop Assad. And some questions for you:
1.) If you knew he was going to use chemical weapons, why didn't you warn Obama?
2.) And what about Russia? They backed Assad's claim that he didn't do it. So in essence, an invasion could have led to war with Russia. Are you saying you think a stronger president should have risked that?
3.) And how did it work out in Iraq when we went in and wiped out their ruling government?
All considerations you haven't even mentioned in your argument that it was sitting back and just allowing genocide.
And let's talk hypocrisy. You're so critical of Obama for not intervening in another country's civil war, or going in to take out Assad for using chemical weapons. Hasn't Assad used chemical weapons during Trump's White House tenure? Has Trump gone in yet to remove Assad? No? Really? How odd.
Now, you're so concerned about the innocent victims in the violent country of Syria, saying a different president would have upheld the country's morals and protected them. What do you think happens to many of the families sent back to the violence in their home countries in Central America? There are scores of stories of that leading to death for those whose asylum was turned down. Weird how there's a different standard there.
Once again here is a link that will provide you with Historians views of Obama's tenure. In regards to Syria. Trump reacted immediately to Assad using Chemical weapons with a one time strike. IT certainly appears to have worked. I have faith that the president would act again if Syria or any other country uses chemical weapons. Nothing will change the fact that Obama did nothing, and made me and anyone else that cared, watch genocide. Make every excuse you please for his lack of action. That is your prerogative.
Once again face his other foreign policies. "Your historical perspective'. Yours is seen through rose-colored glasses. Obama had the entire middle east in turmoil. Need I also mention his laying low attitude that prevailed even as Russia annexed Crimea, invaded eastern Ukraine, and ended up propping up Assad in Syria. Am I well versed on Obama's horrendous foreign policies or should I say lack of? " he will be well known for turning his back...
One more thing - I am not here to argue with you or even answer your questions. As a rule, I give reference to my opinion. If this is not enough for you. I would say that's your problem. I don't intend to debate a person that will not in any respect consider facts.
http://time.com/4632190/historians-obamas-legacy/
You say inaction in Syria when Obama did the same thing Trump has done. Both bombed Syria for the use of chemical weapons. The difference was that Obama actually consulted Congress first and didn't act like a dictator.
Obama had the middle east in turmoil? Again, historical perspective would be good. Who created that instability in the first place? That'd be Bush when he destabilized the region with his personal vendetta against Hussein. Now, I'd give you that he pulled troops out too quickly, allowing ISIS to fill a vacuum. But that was what the American people elected him to do, get our people out of that war. In fulfilling that campaign promise, it created another headache from what he called the JV team. He is not without fault, but to say he created the turmoil would be falsely forgetting the administration before his actions.
Again, you seem to want world war with Russia. It's not like he didn't put sanctions on Russia for the Ukraine annexation. And you know who changed the GOP platform to be pro-Russia on the Ukraine annexation? Yeah, that'd be your boy, Trump. So it's odd you ding Obama for actually acting on it while Trump basically patted Putin on the back.
You give a reference in your post, sure. Declaring that reference as fact is near laughable. I seriously wonder if you even read some of your links. I'd want someone aside from us to read that Time magazine link you posted and see if they could come to the same conclusion you do from it that historians find Obama to be a bad president. It's a reach, at best.
Believe what you please... I don't buy into your way of thinking. Not to be rude but we will have to agree to disagree. The link I posted was very fair, and most certainly there were positive views that they made mention of. However, not sure how you could possibly block the derogatory?
Really, Trump solved the whole Syria problem with one military strike? Are you serious? Assad is still in power and still slaughtering people, but you just buy the company line that the problem is solved? And for this, you compare Trump positively to Obama? Your knowledge of foreign affairs is astounding.
And go ahead and continue believing that Trump is doing great. That's fine. But can you not give Obama any credit. The United States was on the brink of a depression when he took over. He turned the economy around and the stock market doubled under his tenure. He did this all with a Republican Congress that refused to work with him on anything. And he also rid Osama Bin Laden from the face of the earth which was, at the time he became President, one of America's biggest fears.
Are you one of these "low IQ individuals" our President refers to?
We agree on one thing - your link was fair. It's too early to tell what Obama's legacy will be. I liked and supported Obama, but his foreign affairs record is spotty, at best.
To address your comment. Not sure you have followed the conversation I have been conducting with Valeant? It is complicated and become frustrating due to his frequent deflections on the subject.
"Really, Trump solved the whole Syria problem with one military strike? Are you serious? Assad is still in power and still slaughtering people, but you just buy the company line that the problem is solved? And for this, you compare Trump positively to Obama? Your knowledge of foreign affairs is astounding."
I have never made a claim that president Trump is "solved the whole Syria problem". I compared Obama's red line to Trumps method of handling Assad's crime of using chemical weapons on his people. Trump retaliated immediately, while Obama waited for over a year to retaliate. I pointed out many hundreds of people died during this time. To address your comment in regard to " Assad is still in power and still slaughtering people, ". This is true. Although, he is not using chemical weapons at this point. And in regards to your insult "Your knowledge of foreign affairs is astounding.". This is a glib insult. I certainly, as a rule, give references to support my opinions.
"And go ahead and continue believing that Trump is doing great. That's fine. But can you not give Obama any credit. The United States was on the brink of a depression when he took over. He turned the economy around and the stock market doubled under his tenure. He did this all with a Republican Congress that refused to work with him on anything. And he also rid Osama Bin Laden from the face of the earth which was, at the time he became President, one of America's biggest fears."
I have not disputed any of the above-mentioned accomplishments. In fact, I posted a link that gives many historians opinions that confirm these very accomplishments. Their opinions also pointed out some negative in regards to his foreign policies, as well as other things. I suggest you have a look at the link. In regards to Trump's job performance, I certainly have a right to my opinion. I also have the right to defend it if someone challenges it, and begs to compare Trump to Obama.
"We agree on one thing - your link was fair. It's too early to tell what Obama's legacy will be. I liked and supported Obama, but his foreign affairs record is spotty, at best."
I have not in any respect elicited a conversation that sought to compare Obama and Trump. I have defended my opinion when confronted with others making comparisons between them.
"Are you one of these "low IQ individuals" our President refers to?"
Not sure why you felt it necessary to make such a statement? I have two degrees. One from Wayne State University, the other from the University of Michigan. I have been successful in life and raised two successful children. My son owns a software company, my daughter is a psychiatrist. Not sure if this entitles me to be considered deplorable? The truth is I have used common sense throughout my life and relied on it when making decisions. I voted for Obama his first term, did not vote for anyone his second time around. I voted for Trump due to his agenda. He spoke to what I felt the country needed at this time in our history. I do not approve of many things he has said or his womanizing. I overlooked these flaws due to his business background, and to be honest I knew he would be off the wall transparent... So far, I am pleased with what he has accomplished. As I said "time will tell'.
No, I am not one of these low IQ individuals that Hillary labeled "deplorable". I need not insults anyone just because I can. Do you really think everyone that voted for Trump is in some low IQ individuals? If so, I can assure you that you are wrong. Keep in mind you have a right to your opinion, as do I.
The "low IQ individual" thing was really a joke, prompted by your president. I use it as a joke, but he does not.
Anyway, I admire your measured response to my comments. I'll be less chippy next time.
Just as a general rule, I think it's misguided to try to evaluate our role in the Middle East. There's no answer over there. I think your assumptions regarding Trump's bombing of Syria are misguided. How do you know he's not using gas anymore? So he dropped a few bombs and showed "strength" supposedly. I guess you believe he basically told Syria that he means what he says and that he's strong and will respond when provoked.
I would note that President Obama asked Congress to do their job on that one, which is why he didn't respond right away (I'm going off memory here) much like Trump is asking Congress to do their job on immigration. Obama requested approval to strike Syria and it wasn't given, so now you are calling him weak for doing that, but Trump isn't weak on immigration since he could also act?
I can see your humor in light of Trump resent statement "I love my low educated".
The Middle East is a subject I try to stay away from. It is too complicated and would not have brought it up unless confronted. In regard to Syria and Assad's using Chemical weapons. I have to rely on what is reported. I have not heard of any further uses of chemicals weapons in Syria. In my opinion, I think Trump bombed Syria with good speed to show strength, and as a warning that he will react swiftly in the future.
Yes, Obama did go around with Congress for over a year after his red line was crossed. I can remember it well, and hoped he would be strong and act on his own. I can also realize he thought it more prudent to have the backing of Congress. The decision was I am sure a hard one.
In my opinion, Trump approved of stopping catch and release for a catch and detain or zero tolerance to make an attempt to force Congress to act on immigration reform. It certainly backfired due to the separation of children from their parents. This kind of separation has been going on for a very long time. It's, not a policy I can support. Trump did, in the end, stop the separation of families. In my opinion, we need to finally deal with our failing immigration laws. We need borders and laws that enable people to come in legally on merit, need for asylum, as well as work permits to fill jobs that our citizens do not have interest in filling. I would think it will be a difficult task to reform the current immigration laws, but Congress needs to tackle it. I think both sides look foolish. It's clear politics, and they are clearly causing emotional pain to children that are being used as pawns. No winner s here...
Despite my dislike of Trump, we are in agreement about the need for an immigration solution. The Democrats are making a huge error appearing to support illegal immigration and open borders and will pay dearly during the midterms.
I too feel the Democrats have overplayed their hand. I will share something I have noted in my circle of friends, which many are diehard Democrats. Some are becoming disgusted with the games, and also with the fact they have no agenda to offer. After all, resist and obstruct is visibly slowing down progress. I would think most people are not willing to resist if they are realizing Trump is doing well on some fronts. Not to say things could turn around due to lack of cooperation or mistakes made by Trump? The Nov elections will be very interesting, and I believe telling for what's to come 2020. It will also be telling and give a good indication of where we stand as a society. The line in the sand is deepening each day.
"We need borders and laws that enable people to come in legally on merit, need for asylum, as well as work permits to fill jobs that our citizens do not have interest in filling."
I believe most Americans would support this. Some demand open borders, yes, but the large majority understand how foolish and shortsighted that is for the country.
"I think both sides look foolish. It's clear politics, and they are clearly causing emotional pain to children that are being used as pawns. No winner s here."
I also doubt that you will get much disagreement (except from die hard D's or R's that support their party no matter what happens) on this one, too. Congress has failed, failed miserably, and done it for many years. Even if it is primarily Democrats holding up the parade at the moment, it has been a festering sore that neither party has put any effort into for far too long. Too much financial and political gain to be had by playing games with people's lives.
I am a diehard anti-Republican. However, I got a call from the Democratic Party headquarters recently asking for a donation. I told them where they could stick that until they fix things. Immigration was one of the subjects I mentioned.
Yes, the current immigration debate is all garbage from both sides. We all know what the Democrats are trying to do - win the Latino vote. They know how many votes Latinos represent and they think Latinos will support them if they're soft on immigration. And they do this while having basically no actual solution to a problem. It's just all about votes. Meanwhile, the Republicans have to keep their base happy, so they're just being mean and cruel and also offering up no solutions.
Democrats want to win the Latino vote...
And they are well on their way to doing that, considering Trump attitudes toward them as a group and there are plenty enoughof them here already with higher birth rates that through their numbers will shake up the GOP base over time. The illegal voting issue is just a red herring from the right, nothing new there.
That's gotta be scary for conservatives who are terrified of a non homogeneous society and it's reality going to be in the cards within the lifetime of many of us.
Not for open borders and illegal immigration, but The a successful midterm will force Trump to compromise with the democrats for a more humane path then the one that we currently are on.
You might be right - goodness knows there has been enough insinuation and outright lies about what Trump has said or wanted to trick the gullible into believing that.
On the other hand, Trump has actually said or done very, very little to displease Latino Americans. I doubt that many of them, for instance, would disagree that coyotes or MS13 members are anything but scum.
On a separate not, what do you think a "more humane path" than merit based immigration might be? You've said you don't support a flood of unskilled, uneducated people to take care of - what do you mean by "more humane" if not that?
Wilderness, one idea dealing with the demand. What are these people coming for? Is it not jobs and economic opportunity? There not going to Venezuela for that.
I want a much more harsh dealing with people that hire them. Crippling fines and jail time for those that hire the "Mexican Gardners", but the threat of that would frighten Trump's real base.
The technology exists to check social security numbers against national data bases No Social Security number, no job. Would you be in that much of a hurry to come here, if you knew that there was no work? As an employer would you risk the viability of your business if you got caught hiring any of them?
Why is everybody so slow to act on this variable?
For once we totally agree ! Arrest the company owners , close and lock their business' , attach their bus. accounts , Fine them big time .
This answer is easy . This answer is cheaper .
Absolutely, and we save billions over building some sort of wall... it is so much simpler and humane than all this angst we are going through now.
Because of the individual differences in states acceptance of illegals , ie. California ; we need at least an electronic wall and border accountability .
Yet you're right , We need a national policy against those that hire them !
Why does that sound so simple and cheap Credence , yet , we hear nothing about that ?
Just like the chance of term limits .
I've said that for years.
First offense; 6 months profit, as shown on tax forms for the previous year, with minimums based on company size.
Second offense: 1 years profit, same deal.
Third offense: Close the doors and auction the business off. Persons responsible to face jail time and proceeds go to the IRS.
Special accommodations for large corporations with multiple locations and multiple HR departments hiring employees, but the same basic idea.
It would save billions over the wall...if it were solidly effective. It will not be (forgeries, identity theft, false names of legal residents, etc.) and it leaves the door as wide open as ever for drugs, trafficking, etc.
The wall isn't the whole answer either, nor more patrols nor ending sanctuary cities, nor anything else. A total packing, attacking the problem from many avenues simultaneously while keep a close watch for new and different methods of avoiding the law will be required.
But it will still save. Not as much as if we could take the simple path, but still a good deal of money. Supporting 20 million illegals is not cheap.
Agreed, Wilderness, the wall will not and cannot be solidly effective, but by discouraging the "flood" it is easier to deal with the probable trickle that will be left without considering draconian remedies. Based on this, we will need no wall, nor the hit to the treasury nor the abrasive relations with Mexico.
If you cannot survive economically because of no work, it going to be tough to conceal yourself, even if in sanctuary, for very long.
Sometimes I'm pretty cynical, and this is one of those times. Given how many employers are paying "under the table" (how many people do you know being paid that way?) and how many will do their best to circumvent the law however they can, I'm not seeing a "trickle" left. More like a large river as opposed to the flood waters we now see.
Of course, to me "draconian" solutions involves simply shooting them at the border, not jailing them with more luxury than they have experience in their whole life. And I simply don't care what Mexico thinks about whatever solution we find; they've made it very, very clear that the leadership approves of shoving their poor into the US whether we like it or not.
Yes, now because violators get away with it and merely pay and absorb the fines if caught as part of the cost of doing business. But, if we got serious and being caught could bankrupt your business, or land you in jail, would you take the chance?
That is the serious level we need to get to regarding this line of attack. I recently read an article that GOP moderates and hardliners still did not want to take this option seriously. But rather continue to stop flies with chain link fences rather than eliminate the source of the attraction on the other side.
Conservatives, at least the GOP in Congress, are still reticent to put pressure on employers. Who are they trying to protect and why, is that in the best interests of our country? Who gains when you fight a war with one hand behind your back?
LOL Conservative, liberal, tea party, independent...I don't see anyone truly willing to do what is necessary to put a stop to hiring illegal aliens. There is simply far too much money, and too many votes, involved.
So, what game are we playing at? We want to denigrate the migrants, create all of this controversy.
It is easy to beat up on migrants as they have no advocates, but we have to protect the corporate and otherwise affluent from being inconvenienced?
Trump says we need to get control of our border, but is not really committed to doing what it takes.
What's the point of his stirring up all this witches cauldron if he and the GOP are not really serious?
And while the Democrats are not entirely innocent, Trump is the one who has made this border control issue a primary feature of his candidacy and his agenda as President. Was it all a ruse?
I've heard the question asked of several conservative congressmen, and they all had no answer why they didn't go after those hiring the illegals. Not saying the left would do so as I haven't heard the question asked of them. I think both sides know how essential they are to our economy, especially for those jobs American citizens shun.
Sure, if the wages for melon picking, or any other type of labor intensive produce gathering, not to mention some fairly disgusting jobs in the poultry and pork industry, we wouldn't need "these" people.
But then, people would raise hell when the price of all these commodities doubled or tripled in price. A sticky wicket, old chap....er….Cred.
I'm certainly on board with penalizing (heavily penalizing) employers that hire illegals, and that includes giving them the tools to know the difference between legal and illegal. Kill the job market and they won't come.
But I am confused how that is more "humane" - it leaves them stuck where they are, without being able to feed at the American trough. True, it means they can't be taken advantage of by unethical employers...unethical employers that are paying them far more than they can earn at home.
"But I am confused how that is more "humane" - it leaves them stuck where they are, without being able to feed at the American trough. True, it means they can't be taken advantage of by unethical employers...unethical employers that are paying them far more than they can earn at home."
I am thinking that folks might just as well stay home or find asylum in Argentina or Brazil, less hassle with language and cultural assimilation. Knowing that information that there are no jobs here in advance, would perhaps be a disincentive for more than a handful from making the journey in the first place. If you are not trying to get across the border and are not here, there is no object for inhumanity. They come in droves based on hope, those that can make an convincing case for asylum here can stand in line and go through the process, those that enter illegally will find that no one will hire them. Where does that leave them? They just as well go home.
"Why is everybody so slow to act on this variable?"
The answer is simple, money... Employers pay illegals half of what they pay an American, and they have no benefit costs what so ever. .Families that can't afford a maid or gardener can afford an illegal worker paid "under the table". So, is greed one of the problems that prevent us from better immigration laws? Pundits are always saying, "illegals do jobs no one else will do, there is a place for them in our workforce." There clearly is, but let them come in legally by merit and need.
Exactly, this is problem that employers contribute to and may be slow to correct because of economic advantage to themselves through the exploitation of others. In the face of such a reality, why should we give them any consideration? We agree that those that can make the case of asylum or otherwise comply with proper immigration procedures are welcome to come.
There was the "Bracero Program" during the Eisenhower Administration that allowed migrants workers the ability to come and work for a season. Such a program would provide legitimacy for workers being here on a temporary basis and because they are legitimate, may not be legally exploited by their employers. Perhaps, it is time to look at this concept again....
I agree with creating new laws to cover migrant workers to enter the country and work on a long as needed type of concept. I also feel they should pay some form of taxes and any employer that continues hiring illegal immigrants should be prosecuted.
"......And they are well on their way to doing that ....." Yes, The left has always conned the group and failed the individual . Nothing new , will it surprise you then when the hispanic vote goes right , as your party is failing miserably in the polls ? What about women ? The homeless . Your party fails the individual at all levels , people are smarter than your party obviously ever gives credit to on the individual basis .
Sticking to your groups , unions , students , minorities ,ex -cons with party amnesty , youth and young .has done your party small favors , keep up the great work though , It is well known what the immigration agenda of your party is FOR illegals , - drivers licences , voting cards , sanctuary cities . amnesty to criminals , gang members , the education system , anchor babies ,All for electoral changes .............................
I love it ! Even playing the dirty political game - you're party's losing . Keep up the great , great work.
It's interesting that the Democrats think being soft on immigration and simply inviting everyone in will please those that have worked, and worked hard to gain their citizenship (and the right to vote). Don't know that I've seen a single immigrant (actual immigrant, not an illegal alien or a visiting foreigner) that takes that stance.
Credence,
So I agree with your general premise. It's just that, as basically a Democrat, I find this lack of vision and lack of policy and lack of ideas, absolutely deplorable. The reason people hate Democrats so much is that they don't stand for anything. This is why Hillary Clinton lost. She wasn't pushing any ideas. She was just pushing anti-Trump. People hate that. Stand up for ideas.
C,
I understand your point. Trump has to go, but the party needs to quickly reorganize away from a "GOP light" stance that was too well represented by Ms. Clinton, instead to the bold and courageous course represented by the Bernie Sanders faction. While his left leaning may be a bit much, even for me, I would not be uncomfortable moving in that direction, generally
I would agree with that. If they want to promote something, then promote it. But don't claim to be fair and then rig the primaries for your preferred candidate. At least Bernie believed in something.
I can't believe I agree with Horse, either. If you stop businesses from hiring and employing illegals, they'll stop wanting to come here, but the basic fact is that they come here because there are jobs and they pay more than what they would make in their own countries.
To me, this whole conversation about the Middle Eastern wars seems a bit surreal.
They are/were not "about" Assad or the supposedly evil or undemocratic regimes in other countries in the ME. While there are multiple layers of motivation for these wars; they are primarily about the proposed routes of oil pipelines (which would determine who gets to sell oil to whom, as it relates to who profits and who enjoys a strategic advantage therefrom) AND the Petrodollar.
If the US fails to maintain control of oil, the Petrodollar will collapse, which would rip the US economy the proverbial new orifice.
While there are some other things going on, this is the crux of the matter--and to those in power, it is a matter of earth-shaking importance.
Long term, the Petrodollar is almost certainly doomed, as is the status of the US dollar as the world reserve currency. For the US, this is a VERY ugly prospect. The Middle Eastern wars and the resulting havoc, which is spilling over into Europe, are desperate efforts to stave off this inevitable outcome for as long as possible. This--from the point of view of the PTB--is an existential issue: Either we retain total dominance of the region or the US flames out like a big ole supernova.
I sure wouldn't want to preside (or be President) over this mess--which arose from disastrous economic and monetary policies that go back to at least 1971, when Nixon took us off the gold standard, and possibly all the way back to Breton Woods.
The American people have largely opposed these wars since the invasion of Iraq in 2003. I well remember the subsequent mid-term elections, when there was a massive voter turnout in an effort to unseat the Republican administration pursuing these policies of ME wars--which, it turns out, were also supported by the Democrats. Here we are fifteen years later, and this shit is still going on. (Before 2003, my impression that most Americans were okay with these conflicts.)
The bottom line here--which I think most Americans don't realize--is that the US has backed itself into a corner with the Petrodollar, and there is no really satisfactory way out. To continue to pour blood and treasure into these conflicts will ultimately be disastrous. Ending the conflicts on anything other than a basis of total dominance would also be disastrous. A multi-polar negotiated agreement would also be disastrous--though very difficult to achieve--but, if well done, would probably be the least disastrous course of action.
We're looking at the end of an empire here. There are many, many ways to soften the blow. All of them are politically impractical.
*shrug* Sounds about as good as "Your honor, our President is guilty of whatever charge we choose to make because we HATE him.", doesn't it?
Just what we need, another self proclaimed genius to put the left in their rightful place! Look out horse, you're about to be toppled from your imaginary pinnacle of intelligence. You just cannot make this $hit up.
Do you have an actual point? I can make nothing of your comment other than apparent defensiveness about your own intellectual inferiority.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/338 … ost4012356
Tell me about your great intellectual abilities, BH.
Tell us about yours? Once again a statement to insult, without provocation... No substance to your remark what so ever...
Why so defensive, then? (If I remember correctly, this is the second time you've felt the need to remark on someone's intelligence or education in a way that implied you believed intelligence and education to be damning in themselves--that is, treated these words a pejoratives.)
From your mini-bio, we learn that you have read quite a few books, have had a productive job or two at some time or other, for a minute (I sense not now, or even lately), can fix stuff, are doing pretty well on Hubpages, have played sports (perhaps well), took a karate class, published an article or two in publication or two, play Trivia very well, and have been on TV.
I have all the above qualifications, except for playing sports (I was never good at that), taking karate (not interested), and being skilled at Trivia (which I've never played, as far as I can remember).
If you would like to be considered intelligent, it would be helpful if you would manifest this in you comments in some way, by demonstrating your knowledge and experience, and by engaging in adult discourse and reasoning--as opposed to using insults and deflection. If you could do this, your intelligence would speak for itself, with no external validation required.
I made this partial list of my proof of being intelligence because horse, Shar, and you are often suggesting those of us on the right are lacking intelligence, and not to be suggesting I'm a genius. You, shar, and horse have given Jake hell and accused him, among others of being mentally ill, a troll, and unintelligent.
I've had several productive jobs besides being a farmer full time. I still work on my farm but am retired now.
"Can fix stuff" You don't have any idea of the complexity of stuff I've fixed. But I'm not surprised you phrased it that way. How many hydraulic systems have you "fixed"?
And as far as your last paragraph, I surely do not need you or anyone else to tell me how and when to post on the forums. I'm very pleased you don't like my posts, otherwise I would be in agreement with you and your ilk.
Randy, Just to set you straight, when I have received an insult without provocation I gave back as good as I got. If provoked with a glib insult or deflection to another subject due to my response being ignored, yes I may have pointed out that these tactics are hypocritical and show lack of intelligence. Randy, you fall back on all the liberal crutches, glib insults, deflection, and now acting "put upon". Sorry, perhaps you should read this entire thread, you will discover that many on this thread have reverted to insults as well as frequent deflections. I have been insulted by many, and yes I gave back as good as I got. Funny how you could not have noted this? Because you have insulted me time after time. Do you feel only some are worthy of being insulted? Perhaps, you should wake up to the reality that everyone has an opinion. It's very apparent a line has been drawn between conservatives and liberals on this forum. We can all respect each other opinions or we can toss insults back and forth. However, I don't see myself becoming a liberal anytime soon. So, I would appreciate respect, and I will return that respect. in kind.
When my name is mentioned I shall correct you; I have either said or implied that you and many here are not POLITICALLY intelligent .
A sad fact proven here over and over again .
Proof , Just listen to yourselves .
Valeant, if you are going to insist on making comments that are a regular catalogue of logical fallacies (ad hominems, straw-man arguments, deflection, appeals to emotion, appeals to authority...probably missed some) you just naturally run the risk of people thinking that your cognitive abilities are a little (or a lot) on the sub-optimal side, for the simple reason that you are demonstrating that.
Now, since you do seem to be a capable person at several levels, I believe it may be possible for you to learn habits of thought that are consistent with with rational discourse.
I did a google search for some sources of information on this that I thought might be helpful to you. I didn't watch this one all the way through (though I think I will later), but it seems to be a good one: https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-con … l-thinking
I do enjoy your posts Sharon. You're the well-grammared version of ahorseback. God's gift to reasoning and all who voice a different political opinion cannot be worthy of sitting on your intellectual pedestal.
I found a few resources for you as well to help:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markmurphy … 75d2f05d7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ess8txBX0
Randy, normally when people are deciding about the "ilk" they would like to be associated with, they choose people who present honest, factual, and well reasoned arguments. They shun people who present only insults, deflection, straw-man arguments, and other logical fallacies, and who make emotional appeals.
You may well ask yourself why someone would present insults, deflection, straw-man arguments, and other logical fallacies, and make emotional appeals, especially since doing so exposes them as ignorant, childish, and dishonest. Why wouldn't they present truthful, well reasoned arguments in support of their premises? Short answer: Because they can't. Their premises cannot be supported by truth and reason. Name-calling, emotional appeals, and unreason are your only options when making a dishonest argument.
Just thought I would offer you some clarity about you "ilk." You might want to reconsider your allegiances.
You once mentioned that your were not a government employee. (You also once mentioned that your father had to leave a crop in the field because he was drafted into WWII--despite the fact that farmers were exempt from the draft.)
If your farming operation is of any size at all, you are most likely collecting government agricultural subsidies. I can actually go online and view the names of all the farmers in my area who are collecting ag subsidies, and how much. (Admittedly, for the typical small family farmer, it's not all that much money.) Most farmers--even small family farmers--are dependent on immigrant farm labor, unless they are just growing government subsidized row crops, where all the work can be done by machinery.
I'm not a farmer myself, but I have several friends who are farmers. (I know most of them because I do farmers' markets.) The reason I know they are dependent on immigrant labor is because they sometimes gripe about how hard it is to get immigrant labor in this area. (This is a low-wage, low cost-of-living state, where it's not feasible to pay $15/hour for labor--which immigrant labor can easily get in other states. Another problem is that immigrant agricultural laborers used to be men migrating alone. You could house them in a bunkhouse, or they could find their own accommodations. Now they bring their families, and a farmer who wants to hire immigrant labor must provide family-type housing for them, which is too expensive to do in this area, and state and county building codes may also be an obstacle. (E.g., the county may not let you set three or four single-wide trailers on your property.)
I'm rambling a little here, partly because I am not much in favor of ag subsidies, and partly because I think you may have made some omissions with regard to your own economic interests. Maybe I missed your explanation of how your dad came to be drafted into WWII, despite being exempt.
Blueheron, your post reminds me that I once asked you to display your superior critical thinking skills to prove to me how three million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary in the presidential election.
You never responded
Please. I want to be dazzled. Oh, and educated.
Good luck with that, Pretty! Wanna bet she doesn't respond, or at least address the question properly? I'll give you some good odds. Does 4 to 1 sound tempting?
Absolute proof that millions of illegals voted for Hillary in the presidential election would be impossible to prove without a thorough audit of the vote. However, there are many reasons to suppose they did--and these reasons can be accessed by doing a google search.
Here is a link that examines some of these reasons. Here are some snips from the article:
" A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.
"We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University."
"While states control the voter registration process, some states are so notoriously slipshod in their controls (California, Virginia and New York — all of which have political movements to legalize voting by noncitizens — come to mind) that it would be shocking if many illegals didn't vote. Remember, a low-ball estimate says there are at least 11 million to 12 million illegals in the U.S., but that's based on faulty Census data. More likely estimates put the number at 20 million to 30 million." https://www.investors.com/politics/edit … e-in-2016/
In many states, it is easy for illegals to cast a vote. "The United States does not currently issue any general-use document intended to confirm both identity and citizenship. While a U.S. passport may be used for both these purposes, it is a travel document. Most people seek a passport when planning a trip and only a relatively small proportion of the population holds a passport at any given time. As a result, the preferred form of documentary identification in the United States is the drivers’ license. Drivers’ licenses are issued by the states, pursuant to a widely varying body of state-specific laws and regulations. Currently, twelve states and the District of Columbia allow illegal aliens to obtain a drivers’ license.....The intentions behind the Real ID Act also continue to be thwarted by certain provisions of the NVRA. These provisions, known as the “Motor-Voter Law,” require state departments of motor vehicles to act as voter registration proxies. The information supplied by license applicants doubles as voter registration information and the registration process has become nearly automatic. Because so many states continue to issue driver’s licenses to noncitizens, it is relatively easy for aliens to commit voter fraud through the Motor-Voter system. When renewing a driver’s license by mail, they simply check the boxes indicating that they wish to be registered as voters and affirming that they are a U.S. citizen. Most often, they are added to the voter rolls without any attempt to verify the applicant’s citizenship....In East Chicago, Indiana, a city with 30,000 residents, voting fraud was so systemic in 2003 that the State Supreme Court ordered a new election with heightened verification. When unlawful voters were prohibited from casting a ballot the outcome of the election changed....There is enough evidence of noncitizen voting to indicate that it is an ongoing problem that may have a significant effect on American electoral politics. Due to the low risk of penalty, and the lack of effective controls, alien voting is easy. In states without ID requirements, the only check against noncitizens registering to vote is a box on the application form asking registrants to confirm they are U.S. citizens. Given the fact that this affirmation is rarely verified and few violators are ever prosecuted, it is a pointless exercise that does nothing to deter voter fraud. In states with voter ID requirements, the lack of a single, standardized document that demonstrates both identity and citizenship makes voter fraud all too easy." https://www.fairus.org/issue/societal-i … -elections
Without an audit, it is impossible to know how many illegals/noncitizens voted in the 2016 election. There have been studies that have attempted to estimate these numbers. One such study states, "These study results and Census Bureau population estimates, 594,000 to 5.7 million non-citizens voted illegally in the 2008 election." https://www.dailywire.com/news/17769/tr … oseph-curl
We do know some things: 1. It is easy for illegals to vote in many states. 2. Illegals have a strong incentive to vote Democrat. 3. Democrat controlled cities and states have a strong incentive to encourage/allow voting by illegals/noncitizens, since they reliably vote Democrat. 4. Democrats have strongly opposed laws requiring photo ID or Real ID for voter registration.
Given that that are around 12 million illegals in the US (and very likely many more, as estimates run as high as 20-30 million), and many states have mechanisms in place to make it easy for them to vote, and they have a strong incentive to vote, my opinion is that the estimate that three million illegals voted for Hillary in 2012 is not an unreasonable one.
I would welcome an audit of the election results.
Probably the best course, going forward, would to establish and enforce Real ID laws that would make it very difficult for illegals to vote. With such laws in place, I think retrospective studies of voter patterns would give us a pretty good idea of the size of the problem.
.
Some rebuttal research, including hearing from the people that actually did the research and formulated the data that led to the article from the 2014 Electoral Studies Journal you cited:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story … ked-214487
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won … 0fc00d0f86
Now, Pretty Panther, I do have to set you straight: I have never claimed to have a "mighty intellect." I have merely pointed out that some here seem to be unfamiliar with what I believed to be the the commonly known standards of rational discourse. If I were to take a guess as to why you are offended by someone bringing these standards to your attention (and felt the need to throw ridicule on someone's presumed possession of an intellect), I would guess that this is because (perhaps through no fault of your own) you are not really up to rational discourse--and are hence reacting to this emotionally, and that the emotion you are feeling is shame. Someone (me) has made you aware that the standard to which you hold yourself is kinda "sub-optimal," indicating that maybe you should try to improve yourself.
For example, it is shameful for a person to respond to rational discourse by ridiculing someone for "thinking they're smart." Such a remark is at the level of calling someone a pee-pee head. I hope there is no need for me to specify a grade-level here.
Moving on: In the first place, your premise is not true. (I.e., I don't "think I'm smart.") So, first off, I must point out to you that the absolute first rule and gold standard of rational discourse is that you should limit yourself to telling the truth.
Let me say what I said before again: This kind of response is shameful. You have demonstrated that you lack integrity. You have also demonstrated that you are unable or unwilling to control your emotions.
Luckily for you, there is no need for you to go through life feeling the need to ridicule people for being intelligent, rational, informed, or educated. All this can be yours too, with a little effort and self-discipline on your part.
You can become informed and educated. You can learn to discipline your mind to think rationally. You can train yourself to be honest and truthful. You can train yourself not to let your emotions rule you. In other words, you too can be a grown-up.
These are not the standards of "mighty intellects." These are the standards of grown-ups.
Randy. You consider yourself "On the right"?
"I made this partial list of my proof of being intelligence because horse, Shar, and you are often suggesting those of us on the right are lacking intelligence, and not to be suggesting I'm a genius. You, shar, and horse have given Jake hell and accused him, among others of being mentally ill, a troll, and unintelligent. " You certainly could have fooled me?
So you think I'm mentally ill Sharlee01? Nothing compared to this mindless, incoherent babbler and guess what? Even though he's illegitimate, he might have the nuclear sequence at his disposal unless of course the powers that be have executed the prudent option which would have been to assign him a 'dummy button' to avoid global atomic calamity: This would be the only possible course of action given his clear and apparent mental bankruptcy:
If this display of awkward, difficult to watch retardation doesn't frighten you to death, nothing ever will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoV4fxFk2Q
BTW: Sloppy Cohen's lawyers are disputing only 12,000 pieces of evidence out of millions confiscated by the FBI raids on his properties which means he is very close to the end and I'm confident he has already 'flipped' to the good side against Spanky Trump: The stress must be unbearable at this point and maybe that's why Bozo Spanky escaped to SC the other night to host another of his little 3 ring hate festivals where he obviously had nothing better to do with our time than what this boring predictable degenerate always does, execute a little incoherent tizzy fit raging rant against Jimmy Fallon while children are abused in cages, right here in the rapidly deteriorating 3rd world dictatorship that once was the great USA:
Seriously, aren't you bored with this relentless, retarded 3 ring circus of hate and weirdness yet, while the USA is reduced to rubble?:
I live in Michigan and can provide links to provide facts on our NOW booming economy. I attribute this boom to Trump's progressive economic agenda. Not sure where you live, but hopefully it's not in "rubble"? "USA is reduced to rubble"? Maybe you might want to have a look at what's happening in your state. I am very satisfied with what's happening in mine. No rubble here...
In regard to Cohen - Let me remind you Cohn has yet to be charged. So no real reason to "flip"? In regards to the president' rallies. I like the fact I have a president that is determined to work hard on his agenda and keep his campaign promises. I give him credit for getting out there promoting the Republican agenda he campaigned on. Just my opinion. I have never actually witnessed this kind of devotion to promises made.
Nuclear Codes- I have no concerns with the president having the nuclear sequence at his disposal the 'dummy button' or do I have the fear he will cause a "global atomic calamity". So mute point.
Trump's first year has produced wonderful results in Michigan
In regard to referring to your mental status. I owe you an apology. No excuses. I apologize for openly insulting you...
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 … lity-rd-up
Amazon is about to open their new distribution plant in my community.
https://www.mlive.com/business/index.ss … wareh.html
Our Automotive plants are investing and thriving.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/fir … n-25-years
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fiat … SKBN1F034F
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 … s-for-jobs
Our construction industry is the best its been in a decade.
http://michiganradio.org/post/forecast- … higan-2018
"So you think I'm mentally ill Sharlee01?"
I for one feel confident that you have papers to prove it.
I also feel pretty confident that you are no longer at large.
Still auditioning for "The Shining," Jake? The casting call closed years ago.
Breaking BIG: Mass Protests: All Americans who are fired up to stop the evil oval office madness and salvage what is remaining of the USA should join the GROWING Resistance in their massive global protests to beat back Bozo Trump and his Russian controlled republican stooge congress-persons: Don't rely solely upon the impending and inevitable indictment and impeachment of Mr. Trump and his accomplices, get out and make change happen now:
A recent poll shows that 80% of Americans want secure borders and oppose open borders, 70% want to end chain migration, and that 68% believe immigration should be merit-based. This unsurprising. Most Americans prefer that immigration policy should reflect the economic and social interests of American citizens, and should provide for national security.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/ … eamers-too
Promoting policies that cost US citizens of $17 billion a year in services for illegals, destroy the employment prospects of US citizens, and allow MS13 and other violent Mexican drug gangs to enter the country will probably not play well for the Democrats at the midterm elections.
The violence that occurred at the Portland protest--setting off flash-bangs, fireworks, and attacking the peaceful prayer marchers (who had a permit) with weapons such as steel rods--does not play well either.
There is an entertaining video of the rioting, in which an Antifa guy attacks one of the prayer marchers, landing several blows with a steel rod--before getting his clock cleaned.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07- … ntifa-goes
Still can't figure out how the topic has been perverted to a discussion about immigration but oh well: If we still have laws, Mr. Trump will pay dearly for his immigration crimes:
But have no fear, when Michael Avenatti, Stormy, South NY and Mueller are finished with Mr. Trump, if he manages to evade capilal punishment for his $130,000 hush money payments, treachery and other atrocious crimes against humanity, hopefully a federal judge will sentence him to a life time of 'border patrol' where he's instructed to allow children escaping tragic situations in another country to come forward and rest easy, while OBSTRUCTING any and all individuals who carry the last name of Trump:
EASY to profile and spot at the border, just look for orangey shades in skin pigment with big puffy eye bags and purplish ears and lips:
Michael Cohen has removed all references to Trump from his Twitter age.
Well, said... It's amazing not only how some promote open borders at any cost. Do they not realize the crime that could result from this kind of ridiculous policy? Not to mention the cost burden on American citizens. It is alarming how many on the left do not realize if we don't thrive monetary wise as a country, we have no funds to hand out to American citizens in need let alone immigrants. It surprises me that the Dems continue down the path of open borders? It's certainly showing lack of common sense. Hopefully, they stick to their lofty ideals, at least until after the next elections in Nov.
There are a great many people so completely ignorant of economics that they truly believe the government, specifically the US government, has unlimited resources.
Plus, of course, you can always take more from the "rich". After all, if you confiscated the entire wealth of the 1% it would run the country for a few months!
I know this is way off topic but if the federal government doesn't have unlimited resources why did Bozo Trump and his republican accomplices in congress just reduce the governments income stream by trillions when they passed their corporate welfare tax cut scheme which gives elite Wall Street companies that are already hoarding trillions of our wealth in foreign lands, even more trillions?
Talk about a Trump University style scam:
The richer the 1% the better. We need to encourage large businesses to come back to the USA, and new businesses to consider our country as a good place to do business. With good competitive tax rates, we attract businesses and enjoy more taxes overall. More jobs create more tax dollars. America has to get back to making money, not borrowing money.
That's simply not true and the Trump corporate welfare tax cut scam just made it more convenient for elite Wall Street corporations to buy back their own stock and stash more of our cash offshore in foreign lands:
CEO's found an ultra-idiot Russian stooge in Donald Trump just like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jung Un did, and boy are they exploiting him:
It's already a fact. The tax producing big businesses to repatriate almost one trillion in cash back to the USA. More businesses more jobs = more tax revenue. Oh, and less we will have to borrow from Japan and China. Maybe even lower the HUGE debt that Obama created... LOL
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/38203 … lf-of-2018
So Trump is running a deficit in half a year for what Obama did in all of 2016. The stable genius at work again.
Yes, he is running a deficit, and if you read the budget he signed you might realize the money is being spent to improve our country. I have provided a link to the Trumps first budget. I am very pleased with his first budget. Oh, I must mention, president Trump has a very long way to come close to the king of deficit buster, Obama.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u … eprint.pdf
So, by your logic, no other president used the budget to improve the country?
And come to terms that the added deficit spending goes to the tax scam that went right to the wealthiest 1%.
Your first comment to me was argumentive.
" So Trump is running a deficit in half a year for what Obama did in all of 2016. The stable genius at work again"
My response was appropriate -"Yes, he is running a deficit, and if you read the budget he signed you might realize the money is being spent to improve our country. I have provided a link to the Trumps first budget. I am very pleased with his first budget. Oh, I must mention, president Trump has a very long way to come close to the king of deficit buster, Obama.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u … eprint.pdf"
Your second statement - "So, by your logic, no other president used the budget to improve the country? "
You then once again respond with a comment that you presumed to insult my logic. My comment was appropriate of my true feelings on the matter. I did not compare what Trump and Obamas spent their first budgets on. Not sure how you came to your conclusion that I was comparing Trump to any other president? Not sure if you are aware but you continually make comparisons between Trump and Obama. Obama's term is over, why not move on? Plus, you seem to insult president Trump at every turn? I simply told you I appreciated how he allocated funds in his budget. You see I am very satisfied with the president and his progress. I see no point in comparing the two presidents. It is nonsensical.
You then went on to say -- "And come to terms that the added deficit spending goes to the tax scam that went right to the wealthiest 1%."
This statement makes no sense at all? Did you read Trump's budget? Not sure what we would do as a country if we continued to chase the "1% rich" out of the country that pays the most in taxes? I actually like how Trump has many of the big businesses repatriating their funds back to America. Without the rich, we can't support the poor. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp? Hopefully, Trump will do better than Obama did in regards to inflating the budget. We should all want him to succeed. You see if he fails many of our citizens fail too... Now how is that for logic? LOL
The issue isn't as much what he's spending the money on, so much as the fact that he cut tax revenue so now he's doubled the yearly deficits. Spending is up from Obama and revenues are down. That's simple math. Well, not so simple since Larry Kudlow was paraded out there to lie about the deficit: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … -rapidly-/
Every state that had raised taxes to higher levels on the rich have done great. I've got a simpler concept for you. Without the rich hoarding all the money and making ridiculous salaries, the poor won't be poor. If companies actually paid employees a fair wage, we could raise the poverty level up from the bottom. The top 1% holds almost 40% of the wealth in the United States. Tax them and spread that wealth out. Considering the tax rate was 70% on the rich until Reagan lowered it in 1981, I think there's some wiggle room in there.
Too many facts, Val. Remember, you're trying to educate Fox watchers...
Leftists are all in major denial about poverty , There will always be more poverty than entrepreneurialism because there will always be less intelligent masses , Much like giving liberals a new bennie , giving wealth to the poor in any way only insures that there will always be poor people spending their way to poverty over and over AGAIN , handing money to the poor is like giving credit cards to college kids , graduation day arises and there is thirty thousand dollars worth of midnight pizza and 50 - $200,00 changes for ubers for the gang after beers.
Actually, no there is no evidence that he will double the deficits this year? To say it politely, aren't you not getting ahead of yourself? The economy is doing well. We have had approximately 3.5 trillion offshore money that is expected to be repatriated before the end of the year. The taxes from these funds will .added lots of cash to our coffers. Plus lots of new jobs with more citizens paying taxes. Maybe you might want to wait a bit before being overly worried about Trump increasing the deficit? Don't lose any sleep as of yet.
I don't believe in punishing anyone for working hard and accumulating wealth. Have you forgot, we tried to tax the rich more. Yes, we tried that, they left took their businesses and their money with them, and they became much richer. While America lost out on all those the taxes. I like to see companies returning due to Trump's policies, and bringing their money with them. So, let's just wait a bit before we say Trump took away Obama's Deficit crown. Hopefully, Trump will control spending. I have good faith he will. He keeps his promises. And in regards to all the "poor' you speak of, hopefully, they are pleased that they can get jobs now. And wages have gone up first time in 18 years, not substantially but the movement is there.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKBN1FK228
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/02/news/ec … index.html
I know, but I like to remind them that one of their own core beliefs is in a smaller government, not one that increases spending by $80 billion this year , sending it up to $660 billion, then goes above $900 billion next year. All while cutting revenue. And here we thought Bush Jr. was an idiot for cutting revenue while increasing spending on his fabricated war.
The only people even saying the phrase open borders are the people on the right. The last leftist government dropped the number of undocumented immigrants by a million. We're all for having a secure border and enforcing the law. We'd just like to have a little humanity while doing so.
I know those on the left are big on humanity. Just not big on coming up with immigration reform. Sometimes it's just better to send a strong message, and maybe just maybe people will come legally, and not drag their children across Mexico. We have laws we just need to enforce them and send the message we are enforcing them. Seems simple, does it not?
Like I said, the laws were being enforced. Most deportations of any president, net undocumented immigrants down by a million. It's not the left's job to come up with immigration reform, it's both parties' job by the way.
If your idea of sending a strong message includes violating the human rights of children, us on the left will pass. What you on the right continue to try and justify astounds us on the left. That'll be more than enough of a platform to bring the party together.
The laws were being enforced? Really?
What is the law on children brought here illegally (DACA)? Not the presidential decision to ignore a law he didn't agree with, but the law as passed by congress?
The Dream Act passed the house in both 2007 and 2011, but the Senate filibustered it both times. The Senate under McConnell filibustered most things under Obama just as a means of playing politics. Immigration reform stalled with that Congress, so Obama did what they wouldn't, tried to come up with a viable solution to an immigration issue. You see that as a negative, but that was the hand he was dealt under an obstructionist Congress.
Once DACA was put in place, Congress voted to defund it, which was hilarious because the program paid for itself through application fees. It didn't offer a path to citizenship, but gained 850,000 applications for undocumented immigrants to work in the United States based on good behavior and with requirements of when they were brought to the United States.
Isn't one of the tenets of the GOP, that immigration be merit-based? Granting the option to work based on good behavior sounds like it falls into that category. Surprised you would oppose that.
Dunning --Kruger , There is no political party on earth more brainwashed to the mindset of of group thought , selfish OWO socialism and self entitlement governing than alt-democrats in the United States , bar none .... Blame transfer , denial of personal accountability , .........the new direction of their political party .
Party Platform 2018-2020 ? "Gimme all you can Uncle Sam !"
Seriously, who actually thought Michael Cohen would abandon his family to serve a life sentence n prison to protect this strange, disturbing looking treacherous coward who betrays the USA almost every single day?
"Michael Cohen’s Next Move May Be a Sit-Down With Prosecutors"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … rosecutors
Breaking BIG ******* Developing NOW : Just one of Donny Boy's MAJOR legal problems in the SD of NY criminal investigation: According to investigative reporting, Michael Cohen was advertised as his acting agent on social media up until yesterday: Considering the evidence reveals Cohen had very few if any bona fide clients pertaining to his law practice, was Cohen acting as agent in a different capacity for Donny when he received millions in cash from several different entities including corporate pay offs that 'batty' Rudy Giuliani said on national television was 'funneled' through his secret LLC? We don't see much of Rudy anymore, I wonder why? Was he acting as agent when he funneled $130,000 to Stormy's Bev Hills attorney?
Was Donny Boy the recipient of all or part of the funneled cash and where is it now?
"Michael Cohen drops Trump attorney label on social media"
"Washington (CNN)Michael Cohen dropped the reference "personal attorney to President Donald J. Trump" from his Twitter and LinkedIn biographies on Wednesday, days after he spoke to ABC News about his legal situation.
The change on Twitter was not immediately accompanied by a change on his LinkedIn page, and his Twitter account still included a hyperlink to LinkedIn. But later Wednesday the reference was also gone from Cohen's LinkedIn page."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/04/politics … index.html
Rudy has been mysteriously absent for a few weeks now, Jake. Some of Spanky's brighter attorneys may have told him to "shut the hell up!"
lol, 'brighter attorneys' Randy? Like who? Did he snag a lawyer with a brain while I wasn't looking?
Good point, Jake. Did you hear Cohen has hired Lanny Davis--onetime Clinton attorney--to counter Rudy's BS? If this was a novel it would never be published because no one would believe it could happen. I'll wager it will get even weirder before Spanky makes like cow shit and hits the trail. Bwaaaahaha!
Well Randy, Lanny wasn't Bubba Bill's best that's for sure and now I guess we all understand the reason why Donny Boy and his republican accomplices gave all our money to his filthy rich elite Wall Street pals through his corporate welfare tax cut scam, destroying our economy with his insane trade war which is killing his own fans and all this while licking Vladimir Putin's dirty boots, one of which is tightly clutched upon his jugular: Favors for Putin?
What do you think he'll be discussing with Putin on his upcoming trip to Moscow? Which motel 6 Vladimir will shack him and his family up in while they beg him for political asylum?
The 'hammer and sickle' is coming, and they ain't wielded by the soviet union, more like instruments of demise used by Mueller and the SD of NY:
In the meantime, Spanky doesn't believe his own intelligence agencies who tell him Putin definitely meddled in our elections. He's either a moron or is in bed with Putie. Neither is good....
So.... I guess you haven't really been following the "Russia collusion" story.
In today's news on the investigation:
WASHINGTON — A former top Watergate prosecutor, expressing impatience with the pace of Robert Mueller’s Russia probe, says the Justice Department special counsel should move “promptly” to file a report on President Trump’s conduct and stop “letting this thing drag on.”
“I think it’s in the national interest to move promptly to bring this matter to a head,” said Philip Lacovara, who served as senior counsel to Watergate special prosecutors Archibald Cox and Leon Jaworski.
But Lacovara has a darker view of Trump’s conduct than Gowdy and his House GOP colleagues have. As Lacovara sees it, there’s already enough evidence to charge the president with obstructing justice, and Mueller should stop wasting his time trying to negotiate an interview with Trump.
“My basic point is that Trump’s testimony is not necessary to either of those things — for the simple reason that whatever he says is not likely to be believable,” he added. “The president’s statements simply are irrelevant to the truth. Or putting it more pointedly, the truth is simply irrelevant to the president’s statements, and therefore one cannot rely on the president either to exonerate the innocent – the allegedly innocent – or to convict the allegedly guilty.”
Lacovara argued that Trump’s public comments last year about the firing of FBI Director James Comey — telling NBC’s Lester Holt that he did so because of “this Russia thing” — provided sufficient grounds to trigger the obstruction statute.
“I don’t think there is much more that Mueller needed,” Lacovara said. “Now, that’s all over a year ago. I can’t even imagine any plausible basis for stretching out the analysis of obstruction or no obstruction.”
Basically, what we all know. Trump admitted that the Russia Investigation played a role in the firing. And that he'll lie to cover that up.
This gentleman "Lacovara", is giving an opinion without having any kind of fact to back it up? If his legal opinion is viable, please tell me why Trump has not been charged? Mueller has the top prosecutors investigating Trump. If they could charge Trump, they would have charged him with anything from obstruction to jaywalking. Need I remind you Trump can fire and hire in regards to the head of the FBI. He was within his authority to fire him. Has he fired Mueller? NO, In fact, by firing Comey he actually created the Mueller investigation. May you be wasting your high hopes on a pundits opinion?
"I don’t think there is much more that Mueller needed,” Lacovara said. “Now, that’s all over a year ago. I can’t even imagine any plausible basis for stretching out the analysis of obstruction or no obstruction."
If we're banking on an opinion I would speculate that Mueller may not have found anything, that's why Trump has not been charged with anything... However, I don't speculate on pundits. I would think it wiser to wait and see what the Mueller investigation comes up with.
I am very interested in hat Horowitz may find in his investigation into possible irregularities that went on at the FBI, DOJ, and WH during the 2016 election.
Well, if we're banking on opinions, can you supply your qualifications? Because the opinion I listed was from a guy who has investigated a president of the United States for crimes. I think I'll put more weight on his.
I am not the one that posted this mans opinion that was you? I pointed out as my statement clearly notes I don't bank on opinions without facts. Keywords, "If I were banking on an opinion" "However, I don't speculate on pundits". I don't speculate period. It is very apparent you do, and that's your prerogative.
I have added an article Lacovara wrote for WAPO. After reading it I found his legal opinion a bit different from the one you posted? Now, one's opinion can change due to obtaining more information as time passes. You did not add a resource for your quote so I have no idea of the date this man gave the opinion. The article I have offered was published on June 17th, 2018. His opinion seems to be different than the one you quoted? He seemed to have a new opinion. Lacovara more or less said Mueller has had 13 months and should put up or shut up... Due to the upcoming November electons. I respect his credentials, as well as his legal opinion. However, he does not have facts to base his opinion on, so he is at a deficit. The article gives a better picture of his thought process, and he explains the logic of his opinion. He certainly does not say Trump broke any laws.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … story.html
Really, your whole supposition that if Trump were guilty, he would have been indicted by now seems to be an opinion based completely without any facts. Many investigations of this scope would take time.
What Lacovara changed from his earlier article that you posted to the quotes I posted from today, is the fact that based on his experience as a prosecutor, he believes that Trump openly admitted to the Obstruction of Justice charge in the Lester Holt interview. When you say he doesn't have facts to base his opinion on, a confession on national television seems pretty darned factual. Not sure what your standard is, but typically when a criminal confesses willingly, the courts tend to accept that.
The Right is totally terrorized by Mueller, Val! They know something is coming and they can't do anything but complain how long Mueller is taking. I don't recall them doing so when HRC was under investigation. Surely they wouldn't be hypocritical, would they?
Could you please post a link to your source. In regards to the Mueller investigation, no one has any facts as of yet. That's a fact... I would think the article I provide you would have set you straight on Lacovara's opinion? He wrote the article? I will look forward to reading the article you quoted. However, at this point, I will rely on the Lacovara's article, for his opinion.. He makes no mention of Trump breaking any laws, and clearly, he suggests it's time for Mueller put up or shut up. Do you really think if Mueller had an obstruction case that would stick, he would not hit Trump with a charge? I mean this is what he was hired to do - Russia, obstruction, collusion.
"Well, if we're banking on opinions, can you supply your qualifications? " I have no background or qualifications to give a legal opinion. However, common sense tells me Mueller had discovered Trump broke the law he would indite him as he did the 23 others that he found broke the law. He certainly would be culpable if he had information that Trump broke the law, and he took it upon himself to not indite him in a timely fashion. Can't imagine him leaving him in the highest office in the USA while he knew he broke the law. Hopefully, Mueller takes Lacovara's advice and raps up his investigation before the Nov elections. Because it won't bode well for Dems if on an eve of the election Mueller pulls a Comey, and blindsides them with a report that clears Trump.
Here's my source, his name is Donald Trump. These are direct quotes:
“But regardless of recommendation, I was going to fire Comey knowing there was no good time to do it And in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself — I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should’ve won.”
Later in the Lester Holt interview, this nugget:
“As far as I’m concerned, I want that thing to be absolutely done properly. When I did this now, I said I probably maybe will confuse people. Maybe I’ll expand that — you know, I’ll lengthen the time because it should be over with. It should — in my opinion, should’ve been over with a long time ago because it — all it is an excuse. But I said to myself I might even lengthen out the investigation. But I have to do the right thing for the American people. He’s the wrong man for that position.”
For a guy who didn't fire him because of the Russia Investigation, he sure did talk a lot about it when talking about firing Comey.
And The New York Times reported Trump told Russian diplomats in the Oval Office in May 2017 that Comey's dismissal had removed some of the pressure he faced over the Russia investigation.
"I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job," Trump said during the May 10 meeting, according to the newspaper. "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off."
Either way, I'd agree that Mueller shouldn't do anything around the midterms. But with the partisanship in the House with Nunes, I'd wait until after the midterms to see if Congress would actually be honest with the results. The Senate and House should have been able to come to the same conclusion, that Russia meddled to help Trump. The fact that the House didn't come to that conclusion while the Senate and every intelligence service in the United States did, completely undermines the integrity of the Judiciary Committee that Nunes is the head of.
Rather than charge Trump and family with the obvious crimes of obstruction of justice, abuse of power, treason, treachery, witness tampering, money laundering and emoluments clause violations, I think Mueller is waiting to gather all evidence and charges which keep getting compounded almost daily, and then indict him with ALL crimes ALL at once:
Why liberals will never get it that a friendly business climate grows an economy better than over-taxation , is beyond all the economists . of course with the exception of socialist economists . They are the ones who quietly invest their money in American markets .
More tax cuts coming !
The Senate committee found the exact opposite from the House investigation. The Russian meddling was worse that they ever expected. Made a liar out of both Nunes and Spanky, of course, anyone with a brain already knew this...
last I heard Horowitz has moved on to investigate Russia meddling in the election? I think he will do a better job than the Senate committee or the house investigation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na … 1943d38f4b
Must we have read a different report? I know it was lengthy, but you might want to have another look at it. LOL
I can't wait until Mueller dies a very rich and "honorable " man , I doubt even then there will be one iota of indictment other than perhaps one more reason for a perhaps reusable line like Clintons ," It all depends on what is , Is "
Cost Now ? $20 Million and counting .
I feel the same. I would surmise he has found nothing. It is remarkable that some can't realize if Mueller found any conclusive evidence that Trump or anyone in his campaign broke the law he would indite them. Actually, the 23 that have been indited where done so with good speed. I hope he pulls a "Comey" and comes out with his "lack of findings" a week or so before Nov elections. This would be justice... LOL
One of many similar reports:
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-sena … story.html
It's very clear after several investigations that Russia interfere in the election. As they have been doing known to do so for some years now, as well they have used the same tactics in other countries. What is disturbing is that there is no news that much is being done to stop Russia from doing it again.
Here's the last I heard about "Russian interference": Mueller indicted 13 Russians involved with the "troll farm," which had supposedly attempted to sway the US presidential election through Facebook posts.
To summarize:
"When Mueller brought the only case he’s charged that involves Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, we noted that it was more theater than prosecution. The Russian defendants are all beyond U.S. jurisdiction, so there would be no trial, and thus no possibility that the allegations would ever be tested in court. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for the special counsel to try to control the narrative: an indictment asserting something that, however highly probable, would be very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal trial — namely, that the Russian regime meddled in the U.S. election." In other words, Mueller's indictments were a mere stunt with little or no evidence to back them up. But he figured, "Hey, these guys won't show up in court and make me prove my case."
Surprise!
Continuing:
"Alas, figuring that he was playing with the house money, Mueller made a reckless bet: He charged not only Russian individuals but three Russian businesses. A business doesn’t have the same risks as a person. A business can’t be thrown in jail.
"So . . . guess what? One of those Russian businesses, Concord Management and Consulting, wants its day in court. It has retained the Washington law firm of Reed Smith, two of whose partners, Eric Dubelier and Katherine Seikaly, have told Mueller that Concord is ready to have its trial — and by the way, let’s see all the discovery the law requires you to disclose, including all the evidence you say supports the extravagant allegations in the indictment.
"Needless to say, Mueller’s team is not happy about this development since this is not a case they figured on having to prosecute to anything more than a successful press conference. So, they have sought delay on the astonishing ground that the defendant has not been properly served — notwithstanding that the defendant has shown up in court and asked to be arraigned.
"Understand, service of process is simply the means by which a party seeks what Mueller has already got: the opposing party’s appearance in the lawsuit. But Mueller’s argument is so priceless we can’t let it go unstated: In order to serve the defendants in a criminal case in which Mueller alleges that Russia is an adversary government that conducted espionage operations against the American election, the Justice Department sought the assistance of . . . yes . . . the government of Russia. I know you’ll be shocked to hear this, but DOJ says Russia never got back to them.
"Something tells me that Concord’s appearance in court is Russia’s way of getting back to them.
"Judge Dabney Friedrich curtly denied Mueller’s request. Mueller’s prosecutors had suggested that weeks of briefing were necessary to probe the question of whether Concord had been served properly. As Concord has voluntarily appeared, however, it is not apparent why that question needs examination — if he wants to stand on ceremony, Mueller could just hand the lawyers a copy of the indictment when they see each other in court this week.
"In fact, though, Concord’s lawyers have been scrutinizing the indictment very carefully, and making demands for discovery that they say Mueller has ignored for weeks. To put it mildly, this is not a case the special counsel is anxious to try; he is even less thrilled at the prospect of disclosing his evidence and investigative files to a business controlled by Yevgeny Prigozhin.
"But as all prosecutors are taught from their first day on the job: Never indict a case unless you are prepared to try the case."
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/ … -manafort/
So, in case some here are having trouble following this chain of events, Mueller's indictments of 13 Russians were without substance--a mere stunt. He never expected anyone to call his bluff and force him to actually try the case. (Let alone go through the disclosure process.) He has since been chiefly occupied with figuring how to avoid the embarrassment of taking the case to court.
There's your Russian interference.
:
Yes, Mueller's known for being a dumbass!
A quote from the article that bears repeating is, "Mueller brought the ONLY case he’s charged that involves Russian interference in the 2016 campaign...."
That's it. After about a year and a half of investigating, the guy indicts 13 Russians involved somehow or other in some (apparently rather inept) troll farm, that sounds to have been a rather rinky-dink operation. And Mueller is now seeking some pretext to avoid trying the case--presumably because he never had a case.
Concord is the company that ran the troll farm. It's owner has direct ties to Putin. Mueller is delaying to protect sources. Why? Maybe because Putin has this weird habit of killing people.
You presume too much. Just because Mueller has a leak proof investigation doesn't mean he has nothing to show for it.
"Leak proof ", He has leaked like a siv from day one .
Randy , get some facts .
Another of those posts based on fact, eh? Where is the proof the leaks have come from Mueller's team? It's more likely Trump's team is the source of those leaks so they can control the narrative.
Trump fans simply make claims with little or no basis in facts. Just like their idol...
They wish Mueller's team leaked info, but they know the WH is the sieve for the leaks.
Not sure you read the links I posted? Could you please tell me why Trump would want to have this leak?
1. 'NBC News reported Monday that Mueller has “gathered enough evidence” to indict former national security adviser Michael Flynn and his son.
Mueller has enough evidence to charge Flynn in Russia investigation
Mueller has enough evidence to charge Flynn in Russia investigation
This followed the earlier leak to CNN — 72 hours in advance — that the grand jury had voted the first indictments in the investigation, later identified as former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business associate Rick Gates.
And that raises the suspicion that the special counsel may be playing politics with his prosecutions.
True, the leaks may not necessarily have come from Mueller’s office, though the incentive for anyone else is pretty limited. (CNN identified its sources as people “briefed on the matter” and NBC as “sources familiar with the investigation.”)
2. Manafort leaks.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/politics … index.html
Not sure you read the links I posted? Could you please tell me why Trump would want to have this leak?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05 … world.html
The whole Russiagate thing was horseshit from the beginning. Mueller is afraid/embarrassed to go to court to prosecute the only people he's indicted (some guys running a little troll farm) on election meddling.
There is zero reason to believe Russia had anything to do with the Skripal poisonings.
There are many excellent reasons to normalize relations with Russia. Russia is in competition with the US in relation to oil and natural gas, and in relation to Middle Eastern politics (mostly related to oil), there aren't really a lot of other points of contention.
There are concerns among out masters that Russia has largely freed itself from international banksters, and increasing concern that Russia may join with other countries to ditch the petrodollar at some future time. I also imagine that Monsanto is displeased that Russia has outlawed GMOs. Russia's sins that displease the PTB are its pursuit of sound money and its insistence on not poisoning its own people.
NATO has been obsolete at least since the collapse of the USSR. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07- … o-con-game
Really, isn't it weird then that they were in court last Friday filing briefs that confirm they can prove conspiracy to defraud the United States against Concord (which is basically Yevgeniy Prigozhin, a Russian businessman known as Putin's chef).
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/ … ase-620653
And strange that if there was no reason to believe that Russia was involved in the poisoning that ten countries would move to expel over 150 Russian diplomats because of the incident. I guess you know more than they do.
Mueller's attorneys have no choice but to proceed against Concord--unless they would like to further embarrass themselves by asking for a dismissal. A federal judge rejected Mueller's laughable request for a delay. Poor guy didn't expect to actually have to try the case in court, since the absence of extradition agreements would make it impossible to compel the defendants to appear. Unfortunately for Mueller, Concord can now compel him to produce actual evidence--discovery. He's boxed himself in. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ … lay-570627
Re the Skripal poisonings, Porton Down Labs says that it cannot determine the source of the Novichok, which is unsurprising. What this means is that there is simply no possible proof that the source was Russia. Opinions by Teresa May or Boris Johnson, or whomover, are simply meaningless. (They pulled their opinions out of their ass; they have no basis in facts or evidence.) You need to get your bullshit meter checked. At the rate you are going, you will soon be a rep a half-dozen MLMs. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/br … b05ff32cbb
When ten (or however many) countries expel Russian diplomats because of these completely unproven and unfounded charges, they are (duh) politically motivated. Quite a few few countries are in a bit of a panic over the possibility of rapprochement between the US and Russia, since this would be very much against the interests of globalists and international banksters, and the EU. Lots of games are in play here, mostly related to energy, finance, and currencies.
The globalists and international bankers have largely lost control of Russia. Putin kicked out the Rothchilds and Soros, and issued international arrest warrants against them. Russia is vilified because it has become quite a big problem for the NWO slave masters. http://reflectionofmind.org/vladimir-pu … ild-soros/
I don't know about "knowing more than they do," but I do know that actions that have no basis in fact or evidence are...um...motivated by something other than facts and evidence. Which is pretty much a no-brainer. You should try thinking and reasoning some time.
And now we have Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein’s indictment of 12 Russian military intelligence officers for allegedly hacking Hillary’s emails and interfering in the US election.
Paul Craig Roberts points out: "If you read the indictment, you will see that it consists of nothing but improbable accusations. There is no way on earth that the US Justice (sic) Department would be able to acquire the information in this fictional story that Rosenstein has presented. Moreover, there is no sign whatsoever of any evidence in the indictment. Rosenstein knows that he needs no evidence, because the accused will never be brought to trial."
So.... Rosenstein is playing the same game and Mueller: Concocting bullshit indictments, secure in the certainty that the case will never be heard in court.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07- … indictment
So an 80-year-old guy who hasn't held a government position since 1982 when he was assistant secretary of the treasury, suddenly is a specialist on forensics and evidence collection.
Weren't you just saying last week how Mueller was afraid to act against the 'troll farm' as you called it? That troll farm turns out to be the GRU by the way. And today, he's indicted them with specific illegal actions they took against the United States.
And they likely won't be brought to trial because Trump will cower to Putin like he always does.
Think Russia would extradite them? Or will they not be brought to trial whatever Trump says or does?
Don't forget - as far as I know what they did is not illegal in Russia. Or can they be tried in Russia, using Russian justice?
I don't think Russia would extradite them, no. Especially since they were likely ordered to do it by Putin.
Then saying it won't happen because Trump will cower to Putin is a little disingenuous, isn't it? Was that just another faux reason to get in a little Trump dig without having to resort to reason or fact?
The indictment farcical on other grounds:
"Mueller indicted a bunch of GRU dudes?
"For violating the US Computer Fraud and Abuse Act?
"Are you kidding me?
"Actually, no.
"He really did.
"Under exactly what rubric is the GRU (Russian Nationals, in Russia) subject to US jurisdiction?"
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233786
"Does anyone really think our meddling in the Ukraine, or for that matter the dozens of other nations in which we've done equally bad or worse over the last 20, 30 or 40 years, is a lesser offense?"
What I've felt from the beginning. This is nothing but a purely American political ploy to gain "points" from a purely American political party.
So you're saying we should accept the fact that Russia was able to help elect someone to lead our country that is sympathetic to their interests?
When our own house is clean of such actions, then we have a reason to complain. It isn't. When this first came out that was my reaction and it still is. There is zero doubt in my mind that we have done the same thing - perhaps we'll learn how distasteful it is when done to us.
But the really comical thing is the insistence that Russian actions accomplished anything at all. Even with the statement that no effect was detected, we still have people insisting it was there, and indeed that Trump could not have won without that nonexistent result.
Re the more recent indictment: "The entire indictment (full pdf below) is based on the premise of the FBI conducting some -unexplained and unsubstantiated- form of forensic data-analysis to formulate their detailed conclusions.
"However, can anyone explain how this FBI forensic data-analysis was possible when the FBI was never allowed access to the DCCC, DNC and Clinton Campaign servers?" https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 … -division/
Forensic analysis of hacking rather requires access to the servers in question. (Duh.)
As far as I can find out, there is no indication that the troll farm was GRU. (Provide a link if you have one.) I think you have the two indictments confused.
Now, the subjects of the more recent indictment are intelligence officers who "served in a branch of the Russian military formerly known as the G.R.U."
Unfortunately, without access to the servers that were supposedly hacked by Russians, it would be quite impossible for forensic evidence to link anybody to anything. You gotta have the servers to have forensic evidence, and no law enforcement agency has ever been allowed to access the servers.
No one is asking you to be a genius here. What is required is quite a bit more simple: a reliance on actual facts and evidence (truth), along with a preference for truth, rather than a preference for relying fable (lies). This is what intellectual integrity is.
I would be interested in hearing an explanation from leftists posting here as which specific policies they fear that Trump (and conservatives in general) will institute--since it seems to me that this is what is at the root of all this animosity.
It appears to me that liberals are opposed to 1) closing the borders against illegal immigration, even going so far as to demand open borders, 2) establishing a non-adversarial/friendly relationship between the US and Russia, 3) ending or re-negotiating trade agreements (such as NAFTA) that have been damaging damaging to the US economy, and 4) reducing government intrusions against individuals and businesses.
I think that there is also a perception that, long term, certain liberal social policies might be overturned or de-funded, such as Roe vs. Wade, affirmative action, and some gay/tranny rights.
Conservatives generally, I think, hope for a diminution of government size power, including its military presence and involvement, especially overseas. It kind of appears to me that liberals are opposed to that, as well.
Some, if not all, of these liberal positions are pretty hard to defend: Hence all the silly nonsense about Trump's personal characteristics and mannerisms and Russiagate (pure invention).
What are you guys actually worried about, policy-wise?
You have asked an interesting question. That whole assumption that leftists want open borders is the propaganda that you're being fed by your far-right media and those generalizations towards the entirety of the group are part of the problem. No leftist wants open borders, or a small percentage, at best. We're for enforcement of immigration laws. We're even for deporting you if you're here illegally. We would like it done humanely and with due process.
As for Russia, establishing a friendly relationship with a country that attacked our democracy is asinine. A country that used chemical weapons in an assassination on the soil of one of our allies (Britain) and one run by Russian gangsters is hypocritical. The right seems pretty gong-ho about the crimes of MS13 but they're all for cozying up to Russian gangsters, even having some reside two floors down from Trump's suite in Trump Tower. Russia is not an ally and Trump's ass-kissing and campaign relationship with their country is, and will remain, a genuine concern for leftists until the findings of the Mueller investigation are concluded.
Renegotiating trade deals would be fine. Slapping tariffs on allies and insulting their leaders is going overboard. He's eroded relationships with trusted allies while praising dictators like Putin and Kim Jung Un at the same time. It's about priorities and his seem way off.
Actually, liberal positions really aren't that hard to defend if you actually know what they are.
Government intrusion is an interesting way to see it. If you're fine with businesses taking insane risks that put the market in jeopardy, then you don't want any oversight. The two times prior that we've reduced the oversight, the economy tanked because some businesses and banks do unethical things and take dangerous risks that put the markets in peril. If we could trust businesses, they wouldn't need oversight. But they've proved time and again that the all-mighty dollar is more important than ethics.
While I think both parties agree that the size of government could come down, it's involvement in oversight is a necessary evil. However, these budget deficits need to be addressed. Many of us on the left actually agree with people like Rand Paul in that we need to curb government spending when the economy is thriving and would support a balanced-budget amendment. It's time to tighten the belt and cut the fat on government spending, but that includes holding the military accountable with audits (non-public).
As for individual policies that worry us, the environment and science are two. One example is the gutting of clean water rules, especially after episodes in West Virginia and Michigan. A second is the selling of national parks for profit. A third is the allowance of offshore drilling instead of investing in renewable sources. The denial of man-made climate change loses him tons of credibility with leftists. If the Paris Accord was a bad deal, renegotiate it, but to deny the existence of our impact on the climate and withdraw was not the way to go.
Yes, women's rights and LGBT rights are a definite concern for leftists. Trump policies have hurt the LGBT community and time and again, he's sided against them. While not openly discriminating, he's certainly set back views on equality for that group. And most leftists think that there can be some reasonable middle ground on abortion without doing away with Roe v. Wade.
Another thing that irks the left is the open hypocrisy and outright lying by Trump. Regardless of party, one should be able to trust the commander-in-chief. But none on the left do and his outright uneducated lying is a big part of that. Then there's the hypocrisy - Obama golfed too much, America first - even though my companies make all their things overseas and hire foreign workers, and the idea that government spending is bad but he increases the budget by $80 billion this year and $300 billion next year. The last one is more on Congress, but the hypocrisy across the GOP to allow that is telling.
But then there's the hypocrisy on government security. Hillary's e-mails were a huge concern, but then he hires a guy to be second-in-command with a history of abuse who couldn't even get a security clearance and is open to blackmail. He hires a compromised National Security Advisor in Michael Flynn, someone wide open to blackmail. He's using an unsecured cell phone, so easy to access that a comedian can call it up and have an in-depth conversation with him.
The wall is a dumb idea, period. We can spend that money on better things such as infrastructure and veterans.
And as much as policy is an issue, the man is as much at the heart of the leftist concern. He's openly racist when it comes to criticizing the peaceful protests of the NFL players while there are some very fine people on both sides at Charlottesville. His open disdain for the Constitution in not divesting from his business holdings is a major concern for the left. The view that he's profiteering on the country by taking so many trips to his own properties will haunt his administration.
His lying is a major concern. The citizens should be able to trust the Commander-in-Chief. But from day one when he undermined Spicer's credibility and sent him out to lie about crowd sizes just to appease his fragile ego, he was an idiot on that front. The left will never trust him. And lastly, his partisanship. When the person leading the country would rather have an accused pedophile or a white supremacist in office over someone from the opposing party, we've arrived at fascism. How the right can justify those two things alone is part of the disdain many of the left now feel for you.
"We're for enforcement of immigration laws. We're even for deporting you if you're here illegally. We would like it done humanely and with due process."
How do you purpose to handle someone breaking the laws entering the country with children? Catch and release Obama's policy failed. So, Trump is trying a strong policy to make an attempt to send a message. Come to our legal border crossing if you seek asylum or be separated from your children while you await a court hearing. A parent has the choice come in legally or don't be surprised when you are separated from your children. I would be interested in your idea on how to stop people from entering illegally?
Russia...
Trump has strong sanctions on Russia, he also armed Ukraine with advanced weapons. Which previous presidents would not do. I must ask, why did Obama meet with Putin? There is no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia as of yet. Trump is the president of the United States he would be neglecting his duty if he did not meet with Putin. All your he might have done this or might have done that... Is nothing but speculation. there is a segment of the population that is pleased to see Trump is doing his job.
https://www.cfr.org/interview/what-expe … ma-meeting
"Renegotiating trade deals would be fine. Slapping tariffs on allies and insulting their leaders is going overboard. He's eroded relationships with trusted allies while praising dictators like Putin and Kim Jung Un at the same time. It's about priorities and his seem way off."
Eroding relationships? That is laughable... No really. The trade deals were lopsided from the very get-go. The Countries that have been hit with Tariffs due to NAFTA's unfair trade have taken great advantage of very lopsided trade deals. So sorry to insult them! Wake up e have been taken advantage of, we now have a president that is making an attempt to fix the problem. You propose we kiss but to keep friendly relationships. My god how ridiculous, It's all about how we look to you? Well got news for you, when it comes to NAFTA we have looked like fools to our allies for many years!
I read all your other "fluff'. No wonder you lost. The Dems need to wake up and realize their ridiculous ideologies are why they lost. And I might add will lose for many years. Dem's in Washington have made fools of themselves. Foolishness does not rub off quickly. This kind of foolishness will be well remembered.
First off, it's not my job to come up with immigration solutions, it's the job of elected officials. Now when those officials come up with solutions that violate the human rights of children and people like you support and try and condone those decisions, we're going to call you out for that idiocy. That's not what we, as Americans, stand for.
So let's see, Trump imposes tariffs. Other countries impose tariffs for the same amount. The net difference is....zero. Yet, all the products have increased in price due to tariffs. Who suffers? The consumer. Believe me, I'm awake to his idiocy.
I understand why Hillary lost. I have written articles critical of her as a candidate and the shadiness she brought. The simple fact is that a certain portion of the population continues to be influenced by the propaganda (today's latest idea they are pushing that you just intimated in your response: https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-bots … 34024.html). And for those of us who can see past the Russia propaganda, we're done with your cult.
"First off, it's not my job to come up with immigration solutions, it's the job of elected officials. Now when those officials come up with solutions that violate the human rights of children and people like you support and try and condone those decisions, we're going to call you out for that idiocy. That's not what we, as Americans, stand for."
No, but it seems o be your job to criticize. Did you criticize the past three presidents for doing the same thing? In a past response to one of your comments, I posted several youtubes for you to check out how Obama handled the problem. They were very shocking. But you gave no response? DID YOU CALL OUT OBAMA? I won't wait for a response, because this is where you retreat and deflect. Just so much easier than facing your illogic.
"So let's see, Trump imposes tariffs. Other countries impose tariffs for the same amount. The net difference is....zero. Yet, all the products have increased in price due to tariffs. Who suffers? The consumer. Believe me, I'm awake to his idiocy."
It is blatantly clear you know nothing about trade. So, I will choose not to say anything further on the subject. Do some real research on the incredible trade deficits that we have endured over the past 30yers.
" The simple fact is that a certain portion of the population continues to be influenced by the propaganda (today's latest idea they are pushing that you just intimated in your response"
Realy, you have that backward, you parrot CNN on pretty much a word by word bases. I follow facts, not innuendos from a failing network. If my responses intimate anything they intimate facts. It's you that doesn't seem to be able to face facts? Nothing you post is factual, and when I point it out you deflect to another subject you can't suitably defend.
"And for those of us who can see past the Russia propaganda, we're done with your cult."
I must ask. Just what propaganda are you talking about? Please list a bit of Russian propaganda. Is Russia responsible for president Trump's accomplishments? Is Putin making our economy so wonderful or was that Trump? I have added a link where you can do some research on Trump's first 500 days. You will be amazed at all his accomplishments. All facts, no propaganda... You might want to read a few at a time. It may be very shocking to your system to really realize you have been ill-informed by CNN to what Trump has been up to. You see it's you that has been fed propaganda, it's you that is a member of a cult. A member of a sad minority that likes to be led by the nose, instead of seeking out facts.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash … -greatness
Stop with the dreadfully boring false comparisons Sharlee01: The past 3 administrations did NOT do the same thing as Mr. Trump's crimes against humanity and a judge has ordered his illegal actions to be rectified by re-uniting abused children with their families:
Why are those "separations" not referred to as kidnapping? That's what they really are.
Jake, I have realized you need to go over and over information for it to stick. I know Obama hs no solution - To anything... But he ran some very horrendous detention camps. Talk about Hitler... Jake, have a hankie handy, these videos are very sad... They shocked me to the core. How could a president let these atrocities happen? No Trump's centers. they are pretty great, these immigrants most likely never lived so well. False comparisons, no facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lrdyq290QQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QywJBIKsxU&t=36s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1r9SliaNCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ph9-x39ytg
Well, there's a blatant fabrication. The past three presidents did not make a policy of separating children from their parents as a deterrent for legal immigration and to discourage asylum seekers. I checked out your videos and did comment on the fact that there was a major surge in children coming to the United States due to violence in Central America. But you seem to forget things very easily.
Of course you can't talk about trade. There's no rebuttal to simple math that other countries are just going to raise tariffs by the same amount the US does.
I'm not even going to argue sources with you. That's a lost cause but saying I follow CNN is about as off as you can be.
I love how you read an article from the Washington Examiner and parrot it as fact. Let's look at a few points on the list:
Point #1: 'Since taking office, President Trump has strengthened American leadership, security, prosperity, and accountability.'
That's not a fact, it's an opinion.
Point #3: 'President Trump has re-asserted American leadership on the world stage, secured vital investments in our military, and stood up against threats to our national security.'
Again, not a fact.
Later: 'President Trump has called on Congress to provide the resources needed to secure our borders and close loopholes that prevent immigration laws from being fully enforced.'
Wow, that's really some accomplishment.
Again, do you even read the crap you post in links?
Valeant, based on what you say, I'm not seeing huge differences on matters of practical policy.
You say, "No leftist wants open borders, or a small percentage, at best. We're for enforcement of immigration laws. We're even for deporting you if you're here illegally. We would like it done humanely and with due process." Sounds like we're on the same page, with the possible exception of procedural issues. Now I'd say the correct procedure is not to allow anyone to enter the country illegally to begin with, which would make humanely housing and providing for illegal immigrants, with or without their children, and the thousands of unaccompanied children a moot point. They should be turned back at the border and directed to the consulates to make application to enter the country legally. Seems pretty normal to me--and is what anyone seeking to immigrate to another country would be required to do in most countries in the world.
You say, "As for Russia, establishing a friendly relationship with a country that attacked our democracy is asinine. A country that used chemical weapons in an assassination on the soil of one of our allies (Britain) and one run by Russian gangsters is hypocritical."
The notion that Russian "attacked our democracy" is without substance, some of it, like the "Trump dossier" fabricated out of whole cloth. The rest of it has to do with some rinky-dink troll farm of people posting on Facebook--Mueller's sole indictment relative to the "election interference" meme, which we now observe that Mueller is afraid/embarrassed to take to court--doubtless because he has not evidence.
The supposed poisoning of the Skripals with novichok by Russia is pretty much a bunch of nonsense. If you'll google this, you'll see many headlines stating, "Labs cannot tell if novichok was produced in Russia." The nerve agent could have been produced by anyone, anywhere; Russia had zero motivation to poison the Skripals; there are a number of other people who possibly DID have a motivation to poison the Skripals. You have to realize that the British are not too keen of US rapprochement with Russia, so it's entirely possible that the poisonings were the actions of British intelligence. (These games are a lot deeper than you seem to think.) As Sharlee noted, the claim that "Russia did it" is pure speculation. You can speculate anything, and I can come up with speculations that make a lot more sense.
You say, "Slapping tariffs on allies and insulting their leaders is going overboard." Other countries have long imposed very high tariffs on US exports, to the great disadvantage of the US. We (or, rather, Trump) are saying that we will no longer accept this. I am assuming you understand that when a country places very high tariffs on US products, they are in effect shutting the US out of their markets: For example, we buy cars from them, but we are not allowed to sell cars to them. If we want a strong economy, we can't allow our trading partners to sell to us, while closing their markets to us. This is kind of a no-brainer.
"As for individual policies that worry us, the environment and science are two. One example is the gutting of clean water rules...."
The "clean water rules" your referring to are related to massive EPA overreach in redefining "navigable waters": "Navigable waters can mean nearly every puddle or every ditch on a farmer’s land, or any place else that they decide.”
As Tom Pyle, head of the conservative Institute for Energy Research, stated, "The rule was never about protecting water. It was designed to expand the federal government's reach into management decisions on state and private lands,” he said. “Far from attacking clean water, today's decision begins the process of returning power to states, local communities and property owners.” I think you are perhaps an innocent victim of the belief that the EPA has some kind of interest in protecting the environment. Please get your head out of your ass and realize that just because something is named "The Environmental Protection Agency" this does not mean that this is its actual mission. Please get your bullshit detector calibrated so it works, and learn to recognize hype when you see it.
You say, "And as much as policy is an issue, the man is as much at the heart of the leftist concern."
These objections are frivolous. How Trump feels about the NFL players "taking a knee" is a matter of little or no importance and doesn't necessarily indicate racism, especially considering that no one could ever figure out what they were "taking a knee" about. Who even thinks about these doofuses?
As far as I know, there is no constitutional requirement for a president to divest himself of his business interests, and it seems to me that such an expectation is without precedent. Did the Bushes divest themselves of their business interests when they became president? Did anyone, ever? Never heard of such a thing.
Other frivolous comments: "taking so many trips to his own properties." Meh. "Lying." You can accuse anyone of lying. You can accuse anyone of being a pedophile or white supremacist, without being able to show that these accusations have substance. This amounts to mere name-calling and is puerile.
Where to begin...how about from the end.
Are you seriously denying that the GOP has a slew of white supremacist candidates running for office and that Trump has lent support to at least one? Here's a link: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-end … -candidate
Holy uneducated post about divestment. Ever hear of Jimmy Carter? Try some research before posting. And the constitution has a clause in it to prevent government employees from using their positions to profit. The Title of Nobility Clause is a provision in Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, that prohibits the federal government from granting titles of nobility, and restricts members of the government from receiving gifts, emoluments, offices or titles from foreign states without the consent of Congress.
Holy goddamned uneducated post number two. Who thinks about the players? Well, Trump certainly devotes a ton of time to the topic. And only the uneducated haven't heard that they were protesting police brutality and racial inequality.
Denying that Russia orchestrated the attack on Britain soil is about as genuine as Trump denying Russia meddled in the last election. And funneling the Trump campaign the hacked e-mails from the DNC seems like another case of meddling to me.
As is the case with Wall Street, if we could trust states to do the right thing, we wouldn't need EPA government oversight in regards to water. Maybe you don't need water to live, but many of us find it somewhat important and want the highest regulation possible when it comes to it. Ask the people in Flint or West Virginia if they think the EPA is a bad thing. They were the ones who protected the people, not their local governments.
"...many of us find it somewhat important and want the highest regulation possible when it comes to it. "
Doubtful. The "highest regulation possible" would be something along the lines than any water entering a building with people in it at any time be distilled within 24 hours of entering that building and be nothing but pure H2O.
Instead we allow almost any chemical to be in drinking water, as long as we don't think it will cause harm in the concentrations present. And there is always controversy as some strange sounding thing (dihydrogen monoxide?) is found to be in the water at any concentration.
Trump's just a guy. Like many other guys, he's a bit of a butterball with a comb-over. You were expecting God? Or Zeus? Like many other guys (including both of my ex husbands), he has some questionable associates. As is very common among guys, his manner of expressing himself is sometimes inelegant. (As one of my old-lady friends says of her husband, "English is his second language. We haven't figured out what his first language is.")
On the other hand, Trump has vast, lifelong experience in dealing with political, corporate, and gangland jackals--bearing in mind that the line between these is blurry--in several countries. You so often present such simplistic views of business and political matters, that I have the impression you have literally no idea how this game is played. When people speak disparagingly of "conspiracy theorists," I assume they are saying that they don't believe people actually ever conspire, or engage in slander, duplicity, back-stabbing, and double-crossing, string-pulling, gaslighting, bribery, faking documents, extortion, etc.--whereas, anyone with a little experience in the real world could tell you that they do very little else. And that's just office politics. Imagine if the stakes were higher.
So, basically, I'm saying that in many ways Trump is the ideal guy for the job. He's a lifelong veteran of this type of thing. I don't know if he's for real or not in his intention to pull the US out of its tailspin, because there's no way for me to know that. But at least he has the necessary qualifications (short of being God), and is not just a silly twat like he-who-shall-remain-nameless.
Your post only proves how little you really know about Trump. Let me be the first to enlighten as to WHY Trump is NOT legitimate or ideal for the job:
1. He tried to cheat the City of NY by keeping 2 sets of books so he didn't have to HONOR an agreement with the City that gave him $2 million to restore the old Commodore Hotel in exchange for 2% of the annual profits.
2. He received a $25 million money laundering fine which is a matter of legal, documented government record in 2014 after receiving 3 warnings to cease and desist.
3. In order to afford to pay that fine, he filed 6 corporate bankruptcies now being paid by NJ taxpayers.
4. In order to cough up the money for the money laundering fine, He cheated 4400 NJ employees out of back wages and refused to pay contractors he owed money to
5. He only makes use of the Bedminster NJ golf course he claims, like Mar-a-Lago, is a "residence" in order to keep it tax exempt from business taxes
Shall I go on?
6. He cheated on the 501(C)3 tax exemption form he signed by claiming in the southern district of NY that he was donating $2 million to charity. He didn't donate a single dime and used the money to put into his re-election campaign, a clear violation of FEC regulations.
7. He signed an Executive Order demanding his AG, Sessions, separate children of immigrants from their parents.
8. Trump uses Keith Schiller, a tough guy Mafia style boss to intimidate anyone who opposes Trump.
9. Trump reached into his pocket in view of several major foreign leaders who met for the G7 and slapped Starburst candy in front of Chancellor Angela Merkel saying in typical bullying, unprofessional terms, "Here! Don't say I never gave you anything.
10. He is a world class grifter who racks up huge debt and then makes everyone else pay them.
Spare me the rah rah Trump. All Trump has is Putin. He is not president. He got to the WH illegitimately like he cheats to do everything else in his life.
I would need to see some links to document your statements. I would have to examine these charges to get a clearer idea what was really going on in each case. Number 6 should be supported by court documents.
You have to realize that business dealings, especially vis-a-vis government entities (who are often working hand-in-glove with gangland figures), are a battle of sharks and snakes--the more so, the higher up you go.
This shit is a very ruthless, stop-at-nothing game, where your competitors (and supposed allies) are prepared at all times to break your kneecaps.
Playing such a game--especially successfully--will make you vulnerable to claims that you may have been fighting dirty. Everyone involved is fighting dirty, so you may need to embed some razor blades in the soles of your shoes, in preparation for the kicking part of the battle.
I think most of us are repelled by the realities of combat. Cutting throats does not appeal to us.
Involvement in politics means you will be thrown into the ring with throat-cutters. Trump's background seems to indicate that this is not his first rodeo. If he actually intends to try to "right the ship of state" as claimed, he is probably the ideal guy for the job.
I guess my point is that accusations of "fighting dirty" are--perhaps--frivolous, when speaking of a veteran bloody battles. Now, there are lines I wouldn't like to see crossed, but I'd have to know all the details to know whether they were crossed.
Your number 7, "He signed an Executive Order demanding his AG, Sessions, separate children of immigrants from their parents," is an example of failure to consider the circumstances. You do realize that there is a strong possibility that many of these children may be victims of child sex-trafficking (or other types of human trafficking, such as for organ harvesting) by cartels? That the people claiming to be their parents may not really be their parents?
The world is not what you think it is, and things are often not what they seem.
I guess I'm saying you seem to have led a very sheltered life, with little contact with truly evil people and organizations and hence cannot imagine what they are capable of, and thus ill equipped to play chess with them. They could steal the kiddies off the playground, claiming to be CPS, and you'd take them at their word--and fail to take action to protect said kiddies, preferring instead to "virtue signal."
Somebody around here has to do some thinking.
don't waste your time on this one. It's very apparent she fell off the ledge long ago... Scary is he not?
Everyone knows Ewent speaks the truth and that's what frightens the bejesus out of you and blueheron:
What frightens me is just how messed up your logic is...
Jake, you're wasting your time. These two are in total denial. It doesn't matter if you emerge from the mountain with the word of God etched in Clay tablets that state: "thall shalt not trust Trump for he lies liketh a s.o.b., and shalt not be believed and followed." They'll perform mental gymnastics to claim it's not really about him and that it's just a personality flaw (BTW, the latter seems to be a new talking point by trumpies , lately. I guess the equate greatness with bad personality).
I've begun a hub called, 'If He Asked, They'd Drink the Kool-Aid'
Yeah I know Dean, I was just trying to perform a non-invasive distant de-programming on those individuals who still seem to believe Donald Trump has their best interest in mind: Maybe a parent, child or loved one could intervene before they really do get sucked into 'drinking the kool-aid' because once Donny Boy is indicted and or impeached which must be coming soon if we still have laws, he's gonna' try to take as many poor gullible suckers as possible down with him:
If "Ewent speaks the truth" the onus is on her to provide some documentation. This has always been a problem of hers. My impression is that she pulls this stuff out of her ass.
Too lazy to look into the truth. One main feature of the Trump cult.
Ewent made assertions; the onus is on her to at least document them. If I remember correctly, she has never responded to any request for a link.
The Trump cult is told not to believe links, only their leader. Pointless to provide them.
So.... She can't come up with a link? I assume she must have read this stuff SOMEWHERE, right?
Why should she come up with a link when you'll just deny the existence of it? That's the republican game right? Deny Deny Deny reality:
Bozo Trump is GONE and so is Pence so conservatives had better have another mentally ill Russian controlled dictator up their sleeves: I hear OJ Simpson is available: Not sure if he's a traitor like Donny but he sure is unstable:
Do you realize anyone that visits here can read the thread? Do you realize how many links I have posted? My comments as a rule are backed up with links. You continue to make a fool of yourself by making such statements. I almost feel sorry for you.
Sharlee01, when you deliver valid links which reflect the truth, not grotesque, right wing propaganda nonsense maybe readers will take them seriously:
I am sorry you found my links unacceptable. Unfortunately, I can stomach CNN or MSNBC or the pop up leftist websites. When I even think of them I envision sheep with human heads on them bumping into one another making a grotesque sound, with their mouths hanging open, and drooling.
WOW ---- Breaking News.... Stormy was arrested the last night in Ohio while performing her stripe act. The charges were however dismissed on a technicality. She was arrested for fondling patrons that came to her show. Well, I would assume her creepy porn attorney represent her and got the charges dismissed. I have added a link I think you will consider a valid?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/politics … index.html
"Creepy porn attorney"? LOL I guess Trump was her creepy porn client?
WOW ---- Breaking News....Ohio police don't know their own laws.
Out of town scum that your president sleeps with. Scummy by association.
I think we are all well aware that the Left has fully liberated their thought processes from any reliance on facts or evidence--or even objective reality. It is really rather telling that you consider it "useless" to present evidence.
That's the most hilarious statement you've made yet. Like a link to something on the internet is going to be considered evidence? By the way, I'm a french model.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CHqptjj9E
What I notice more and more about anti-Trump arguments is that virtually ALL of them are exercises in deflection. They are "he-said/she-said" stuff. It would take hours of research to evaluate even one of these charges--which are mostly irrelevant to begin with. Often they show a profound ignorance of both business and law.
Earlier today, a friend of mine told me that Trump should have been forced to show his tax returns, because when he filed various corporate bankruptcies, "He had the money to pay everyone what was owed."
HELLO! What on God's green earth does she think incorporation is for? When you open a fried-chicken restaurant in your town and borrow $500,000 for equipment and other start-up costs (perhaps including purchasing the building), you incorporate. The reason you do this is because, in the event that the business should fail, creditors will be unable to take your private assets: your home, your savings, and your retirement to satisfy the debt. Creditors could recover only the value of the corporate assets.
Likewise, if you owned two or more corporations and one of them went bankrupt, creditors could not liquidate any of the other corporations to satisfy the debt. For example, if, in addition to your restaurant, you also owned a farm that was incorporated, your creditors could not take your farmland and farm machinery to satisfy the debt on the bankrupt restaurant.
My friend's heart was especially bleeding for stiffed contractors. Hello again! The contractors are also corporations. They were aware, or should have been aware of the risks. These were risks they voluntarily assumed.
Now, if I'm not mistaken, when a company files for bankruptcy, there are laws specifying who is first in line to get paid. I think normally it is the shareholders. Contractors are also well aware that, in the event of bankruptcy, they are not exactly at the front of the line. Hence, it would behoove them to take some precautions, such as getting all or part of their money up front. These contractors are corporate entities. They are not your buddy Ron who lives down the street and is an itinerant ukelele-stringer, in between house-painting jobs. There is a reasonable expectation that they know the law and the risks and are well able to look out for themselves and EXPECTED BY LAW to look out for themselves.
This is the sort of ignorance that allows liberals to swallow these stories hook, line, and sinker. They simply don't know anything about anything.
The actual point I was coming to is that it would make a lot more sense to focus on the actual ISSUES at hand. The "he-said/she-said" stuff is deflection.
How do you feel about Trump's position on illegal immigration--and legal immigration?
What is your problem with rapprochement with Russia?
Would it maybe be a good idea for the NATO nations to pay for their own defense, rather than the US paying for it?
Would you like to see tariffs or not?
Are you deeply saddened that Trump took a figurative poke at Merkel? (I am amused.)
Why or why not?
When I was having the discussion with my liberal friend earlier today, I was surprised to find that her views on immigration were identical to my own.
I mentioned that the whole fiasco we are witnessing could have been avoided by simply not allowing any of these immigrants to enter the country at all, but instead directing them to the (I believe it's eight) consulates along the border, to make application to enter the country legally.
My friend was in complete agreement. She said she thought that the reason the immigrants were NOT turned away at the border and directed to the consulates was because Trump somehow or other hoped to gain some kind of political capital from the resulting debacle. (I'm not following her reasoning on that one.)
I would be curious to know why these immigrants were not turned away at the border. Is there some law preventing the government from turning them back? If not, it kind of seems to me that SOMEONE merely wanted to create some completely unnecessary drama. Or maybe the immigration authorities were eager for some overtime pay, or some construction contractor wanted a fat, juicy contract to build more housing. Or maybe the whole scenario was cooked up to get everyone in an uproar.
Here's a few reasons why the overwhelming majority of Americans hate Mr. Trump: He cages innocent children, adores nazis and white nationalists, sabotages our healthcare system, my insurance premiums just increased by $120 per month due to his insane undermining of the ACA, his intentional destruction of our NATO allies while coddling and worshiping his idol Vladimir Putin, his constant treachery and treason, his insanely reckless trade wars with our former allies Canada and Mexico etc which are destroying American jobs and our once great economy, his cult members are especially in dire straights but of course they don't care, his misogyny, constant degradation of our CIA, FBI, War Heroes and law enforcement, not bad from a 5 time cowardly draft dodger, his blatant crimes and of course his retardation and inteptitude:
Who ever doesn't hate this 72 year old Russian Stooge who is using our government to enrich himself and his crooked elite Wall Street pals while weakening our country to the core, you'd better get checked out ASAP:
All indications reveal Michael Cohen has 'flipped' away from evil Mr. Trump over to the good side and Donald is 'flipping out' because he understands what's coming:
Jake, I have to admit that he is a lot dumpier than I thought.
So, that is what the overcoat thing is really about? I would try to hide that too. Well said, thanks
Yeah Credence2, although he never looks clean, tidy and normal even when wearing a cheap suit made in China, it's amazing what a man girdle, overcoats, orange paint and propecia can cover:
His bone spurs he used his for cowardly draft dodging, which there is zero proof that he suffers from by the way, must really bother him when he golfs don't you think? Especially when your doctor says you're obese and carrying around all those extra pounds: Too bad for him those layers of extra fat around his gut and unsightly kaboose never made it to his hands or other more desirable body parts:
From film footage evidence, he can't even get Melanie to hold his tiny little hand: Pathetic:
Just curious blueheron: What do you hope to accomplish by making blatantly false statements like the one you've just made?:
As usual, no one even knows what you're talking about.
I just hope you haven't become too attached to the orange racist traitor polluting our oval office: Pence is gone too thank God:
So, has anyone seen film footage of Bozo Trump congratulating our brave law enforcement officers for indicting 12 more Russian enemies who have committed espionage against the USA and were responsible for embedding Vladimir Putin's Poodle? I didn't think so:
"Russians tried to hack Clinton emails same day Trump publicly asked them to, says Russia probe indictment"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 46626.html
So who here from the left will address this "Intellectual Integrity ", especially that which includes unbiased intellectual discussion ?
Is bias a part of your intellectual integrity ?
After losing sponsors by the droves a few months ago and we presume tossed of air for a week for her lame disgraceful remarks on fox loser channel, Laura Ingraham apparently has no control over her hateful impulses: Once again, it looks like she's in tremendous trouble with her latest retarded racist remarks:
Will sponsors choose to remain on board with her anti-American hate??
Apparently, she's not to enamored with hosting a national television show, as comical and full of falsehoods is it is:
"In some parts of the country, it does seem like the America that we know and love doesn't exist anymore," she complained.
"Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people, and they are changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don't like. From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically, in some ways, the country has changed."
In case it was unclear, she explicitly said it: "Now, much of this is related to both illegal, and in some cases legal immigration that, of course, progressives love."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/opinions … index.html
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Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
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Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |