Are any of the pro-abortion types even opposed to THIS?
We are very scary Mark!
TK Sensei - I was just trying to help. I see you attacking educated people all the time and suggest this may help with your inferiority complex. Personally - I see no shame in an educational lack, so I am on your side. Really.
LOL at the "nothing positive" from the troll I have never once seen say anything positive.I don't think making a factual statement would be considered a personal attack TK Sensei.
This entire thread is testament to the fact that you are here merely to cause fights. Good job by the way.
So basically you are attacking a woman's right to choose to abort a 12 week old fetus based on a not-yet-decided court case being bought involving an assault on a woman who was 6 months plus pregnant? And compare this to an early abortion?
You fascist, evangelical anti-women's right types really are getting more dishonest with every statement you make. Sad really.
Perhaps you are right - education would not help. Sorry I suggested it. I apologize for doing so.
what kind of idiot kicks a pregnant woman in the stomach? talk about flagrant disregard for human life. that article has nothing to do with abortion though. anyone, pro or against, would understand that that was wrong and a horrible thing. i think i get what you're saying though, an unborn baby is an unborn baby and should be protected.
as far as the issue of abortion goes, i believe everyone should be entitled to any safe and legal medical procedure but then again if i think about it more, on the side of the unborn, i cringe. and another thing, everyone talks about 'the woman's right to choose'....what about the man? doesn't he factor into it at all? we assume men have no feelings for their unborn babies, which is wrong. being against abortion has nothing to do with religion. it's so easy to paint people with a giant brush of generalizations. i haven't seen SabOh attack anyone in this thread. in fact, Mark Knowles is the only one attacking and no one says anything because he is, after all, Mark Knowles...
and quit calling it "choice". have the guts to say 'yes i killed my unborn baby".
if a woman is mature enough, regardless of age or body weight (what that has to do with it is beyond me but anyway) to have sex, she should be mature enough to 'man up' and deal with the consequences of her behavior. if she wants to terminate her pregnancy, fine, but think about what you did and own it, instead of just shrugging your shoulders and going 'oh well, thank god that's over'.
DUH, if you don't know that having a man penetrate you and spill his semen inside gets you pregnant, what planet are you living on? have you not heard of condoms? saying no? coitus interruptus? SOMEthing?
once there's a heartbeat, you shouldn't do it. period.
Right. Nothing to do with religion. Just wrong - what do you propose again? Oh - abstinence. Sure - bound to work. Fantastic idea. Wonder why no one thought of it before.
Since the title of the thread is a personal attack. You once again have no leg to stand on. (my applogies if you actually have had your legs amputated)
I noticed you didn't answer.
No. What I discovered when my own daughter was that age, was that I couldn't believe how much I absolutely, absolutely, adored her; and if I imagined what I'd hope she'd do if she were to get pregnant, I was surprised to realize that (even though I'm generally opposed to abortion and definitely opposed to abortion past the first trimester) my first instinct was that I'd hope (IF it happened) she'd get an early abortion. I'd look at this little, 80-something-lb girl and think how I just couldn't imagine her going through a pregnancy.
UW you never cease to amaze me
You just spoke my thoughts only in a much more articulate way
brilliant post
thank you
You're wrong again ( I have just programmed my laptop to give this as an auto resonse to all of your posts)
No one dies during an abortion procedure unless there is a complication. The procedure sometimes actually saves a life.
Does it really?
Seriously, though, what about girls who are raped or victims of incest? What about girls in abusive relationships - it is more common than you think for abusers to deliberately get their wives/girlfriends pregnant (often by sabotage) and then force them to get an abortion. It's all about power and control for these men - they don't give a **** about the baby.
Here in Australia, we pay women to have babies.
Thousands of dollars!
Nine months later, Plasma TV sales went through the roof.
Of course, we pay the mothers to look after them after they are born.
It's OK. They can have as many as they want.
The more babies, the more benefits.
Social welfare is a wonderful thing.So - now you know what the vast, vast majority of anti-women's rights campaigners think?
I would say "more than enough" of them murder doctors. Disgusting really.
"pro-abortion types"
Yes - reading carefully I see what you mean. Not intending to be provocative at all are you?
Did u lern wot the difference is yet?
Will you gay-marry me?
The problem with what you said is with the context. Yes, a man contributed to the making of a baby, once it has reached that stage, which isn't for many months away. Before hand, it remains the right of the woman to do what is in her best interest for the future and not at that particular moment in time. The responsibility for children is quite a bit and should be approached by those who are adult in mind, not children and not those who are raped.
Abortion is always to remain with the woman, beyond all others. It is her life and abortion is an option. As for the argument of those who use abortion as a contraception is absurd and extreme thinking, almost borderline paranoid(if any do do it, then it would be the lowest statistic ever accumulated for anything).
The topic itself- should not be an ISSUE to begin with. It infringes upon the rights of a individual, and their right to life and right of choice.
As for the argument from the religious side, it's just ignorance and the oppression of people to bend to the will of some god or another(which is based on ignorance in and of itself).
All arguments created about this topic is so people can feel better about themselves, so as to give off the appearance of caring for others, when it's a direct violations of human rights. Hence, for it to be legal and an option, in America.
Other Countries laws, are irrelevant, to my view in America's society.
That's my thoughts on the abortion in general. I did not bother to read the link or go to it, instead I read the thread, which was enough. I did write a hub on abortion being a non-issue, if anyone is interested.
Have a great day.Nothing to do with abortion TK Sensei. But - great fight. Well done. Troll? Oh yes. Force women to do what you think?
Please do not attack me again. Thanks.Yes, your posts are always abundantly clear...
Partial birth abortion is a political term, medically speaking there is no such thing. You are following TK's example of mislabeling in an attempt to stir emotions and dismiss reason.
Not an admirable trait.
In a generalized form, Lisa would be correct, both sides are successful in admitting their position is the way it should be, regardless.
However, being pro-choice only puts the appearance of pro-abortion, because the opposition paints it to look that way.
Pro-abortion and Pro-choice are clearly two distinctive things. The ideology behind both are different
Pro-choice is fought on an individual level- right to life and right to choose.
Pro-abortion is fought on a business level- right to perform the procedure or service to the community of citizens.
That's where the translation gets lost and how the agendas of some people are manipulated.
Just my thoughts.Jim, I can't speak for other women, but I can speak for myself (and I can't be the only one).
Before I had the first pregnancy I couldn't even "mentally digest" the reality beyond just kind of thinking in "intellectual terms". Even in early pregnancy, it seemed almost like it was "just a word" (even if there was some sickness that would indicate it was more than "just a word").
Later, when I was expecting my other children, I'd still kind of think of the whole thing "in intellectual terms", even when I'd feel the baby move. It wasn't until I actually saw the baby - all born (and not just in an ultrasound picture) that I actually "mentally digested" that there was something "more real" than "just intellectual thinking" about the pregnancy. With each baby's arrival, I actually kind of thought, "Wow - look at that. There really WAS a baby in there."
Some young girls/young women find something appealing about the "idea" of pregnancy before it happens, but then reality hits. There are a bunch of things/thoughts/worries that show up for pregnant women that no man and no woman who hasn't been through at least one (although more than one offers different experiences) successful pregnancy can ever imagine or understand.
My point is that if someone like me (three very wanted pregnancies, at 27, 29, and 32 years old) could have trouble really believing the reality of the whole thing, what can anyone expect of 16-year-old kids or even 21-year-old young women? I mean, I look at my grown kids today and sometimes think, "Hey. I really love these people. I can't believe where they came from."
Unfortunately, condoms are not foolproof. Maybe insist your significant other get a vasectomy then there would be no chance
Diane, only for the purpose of discussion and - really - not with the intent to be "adversarial" at all... It would be an extremely, extremely, rare birth mother who "got past it just fine". People deal with awful things they have to face in life, but when those things are so big and so deep, nobody ever really gets "past it just fine". People just don't tend to talk about the things that are most painful to talk about.
I would not/could not have given away either of the babies I had; and even if it's possible to eventually get over the "most acute grief" of doing something like that, women usually live with that grief. Also, knowing how much I love my children, I wouldn't want to have to think they were out there somewhere, and worry about whether they were loved enough or whether they'd ended up in some horrible situation. It's not something I would ever expect any other woman to do. If some can do it for some reason, great. I'm sorry, though... I would not want to see my own daughter, niece, or anyone else I care about go through that.
It's always easy to think what someone else ought to do, and it can even be easy to think what we'd do if we were in that situation (either because we don't have the feelings other people may, or else because we believe we would never be in that situation in the first place).
Would it be better if nobody in the world ever let an unwanted pregnancy occur? Sure. Would it be better if nobody ever messed up when it comes to sex? Sure. That's not human nature, though - especially when it comes to a lot teens. If there's some young girl who thinks she loves her boyfriend, and if she starts worrying he'll break up if she doesn't have sex, voila - you've got a teen's emotions kicking in and say "no, forever until I'm married, ten years older, and financially stable and without any life circumstances that would cause problems for a baby or my other children" So since the beginning of time women have found themselves with unwanted pregnancies.
The choices are: Live with almost a year of an unwanted pregnancy and bring the baby into a bad situation to a parents who aren't going to be ready to be parents, have an abortion, or have give the baby away. None of those are great choices.
I do agree with you on the foster care problem, though. The unfortunate reality is that any time anyone is going to try to take on a parental role, it's too bad so many people will let their concern about the possible emotional cost to them stop them. Being a parent (foster or otherwise) has to always be about what you can do for the child, regardless of what the emotional toll on you is - not whether you're going have to pay some emotional or other price. It's too bad the people who aren't willing to try to become a foster or adoptive mother because of fear that they'll have to pay an emotional toll often don't understand that a similar concern about emotional or other toll is also often at the root of the choice to abort an early pregnancy.
Sometimes, though, people just can't afford (for whatever reason) to pay some emotional tolls (so those reluctant foster parents shouldn't be judged either).
Well okay, each time a guy uses one he is killing a baby
My argument is however, that what do you see as the key difference between preventing conception through use fo a condom, preventing gestation through use of the morning after pill, and removing a developing fetus.
Each one is the prevention of the birth of a human.
I believe this
means he is joking...Hey lovemychris,
It shouldn't even be a topic. It should not be an issue. It is an individual private matter and needs no government or other person interference.
It's personal and no one business. Actually, what part of none of your business did you not understand?
YOU are not society and you don't speak for ALL of society. You do however speak for yourself, which is fine and dandy, but what you care to complain about or banter back and forth with others about is irrelevant, because the law favors woman's rights.
Something that will not change anytime soon, even with you flapping your chops.
Wrong again. Study more, rant less, then you won't always be wrong.
Should "Life begin" be labeled by Government at the point of conception, and thus defining "Life", as science has deemed it, then the entire social structure would change.
Hence, why states take it upon themselves to judge the most viable time for a fetus/child/baby or whatever can sustain it's own life without help from the mother.
To clearly define what is murder, as best it can. The problem with making it at conception is that it then infringes or takes away the rights of the individual carrying said "life".
It invades on her right to life and right to choose, leaving her without any options. Hence, why things are as they are."The anti-choice lobby can't seem to see that the right wing or religious stance that underlies that opinion is the same stance that supported the killing of poeple in wars from Vietnam to Iraq withall the other nasty little 'operations' to support tinpot right wing dictators who habitually murdered their own citizens."
Un-be-liev-able
Even Stretch Armstrong himself couldn't stretch that far on a hot day tied to two Buicks traveling in opposite directions.
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