Gay Marriage

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dzephaniahposted 12 years ago

Democrats and media claim that most of the people in America support gay marriage. I believe that it is the other way around, and most of the people do not agree with that, including me.
I believe that this insults the marriage institution, which is only between man and woman.
Do you agree or disagree to Gay Marriage?
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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  While it's true marriage was originally designed to be between a man and a woman, why can't it evolve into something more inclusive?
  
  Is it set in stone somewhere that marriage MUST be heterosexual? Is it written in the sky?
  
  We created the rules, we can change them if they serve us better in a new form. To say "the marriage institution is only between a man and a woman" is not a moral argument against gay marriage...it's just a defence of tradition. Lots of traditions have changed over time. Why can't this one?
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  dzephaniahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Many wrongs don't make this one right. Marriage was intended between man and woman, by our maker. That is it. Human has no right to change it, just because some small shameless group wants so (I'm sure that there are decent gays out there that wouldn't consider "marriage", because it's an absurd proposition).
  
  Another reason is children. The only happy and well adjusted people that I have met in my life, are the one's that came out of a good marriage. This world brought billions of unhappy people already that hate everything; from god to their parents.
  
  Traditions are the ONLY thing that will hold us together. We already see where it is all going.
  
  Gay marriage is another nail in the coffin of the human destiny. Let's see how low it will go, where we'll need a cop in every corner of the street and brother will not trust brother.
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  kerrygposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If it's children you care about, studies have consistently shown that children raised by gay or lesbian parents do as well or better than children of heterosexual parents by any measure of physical, mental, or social success.
  
  I assume this has something to do with the fact that any pair of morons with a dick and a uterus can get themselves knocked up after a drunken one night stand if they're straight (and with religious people fighting to reduce access to comprehensive sex ed and reliable birth control, they probably will), whereas if you're gay, you actually have to want kids to have them.
  
  If it's traditional marriage you care about, well, your Maker accepted some pretty "alternative" arrangements back in the day, so maybe His views have evolved along with the human race, most of which doesn't really consider forcing a woman to marry her rapist (just to name one officially God-approved form of traditional marriage) to be A-okay anymore.
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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we do have a right to change it. In secular societies, marriage is a legal contract and laws aren't decided by religious dictates. If you want to argue against the legalisation of gay marriage you need to find a non-religious basis for your objections or find a theocracy to live in.
  
  A happy marriage is great for children but why do you assume a gay couple can't have a good marriage?
  
  Traditions can be very good but they aren't always perfect by default. Sometimes they need to be fine-tuned and in some cases, discarded. We can't live cemented in unchangeable rules for ever and ever. If we hadn't developed and changed things as we went along we might still be pushing human sacrifices into volcanoes.
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  tohimilookposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When you speak of tradition.... I hope you don't put marriage in that category. Marriage is not a man-made institution. What is the chance of a child growing up in a gay home becoming gay. All that this same sex union is doing to children is confusing them. Something is either right or wrong, This subject is a very hot and controversial topic but we have to teach standards to our children. Two men or two women having sex is not really sex to my mind. I still am amazed at the political correctness many have when it comes to this topic. Two men having sex must be a painful thing...knowing where they place their you know what I mean..
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  According to research for most men it is more pleasurable (purely physically speaking) than normal sex both top and bottom. My best friend is a doctor and he often has trouble with giving men a prostate exam because it often causes an orgasm in the patient leading to a lot of awkwardness, anyway I wont go into detail but sufficed to say you can look up the male G spot if you are interested in what it's actually like ( I guess you probably aren't) anyway I just wanted to correct that misconception.
  
  Marriage is a man made institution, Christians claim that Christian marriage is not and they are fully entitled to their beliefs but pretty much every culture and religion completely separate from Abrahamic faiths had an institution of marriage thus marriage is a human tradition, Christian marriage is a Chritian tradition (hence I believe it's completely fine for the church to refuse to marry same sex couples because that is Christian marriage but I think that same sex couples should have the right to marry in the secular sense.
  
  Studies have shown no correlation between being raised by a same sex couple and becoming homosexual.
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  tohimilookposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is more pleasureable in that area... BUT it does not fit snugly like male and female. Even the femal turtle has an indentation for the male turtle to sit on. The thought of two men kissing and romancing is so obnoxious to me I have to end this comment here.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Couldn't say personally as far as I am concerned what people do in their own lives is their own affair especially in their own bedroom I will note that according to research more than thirty percent of women have engaged in anal sex so it's not just something that gay men do.
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  tohimilookposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What persons do in their own bedrooms is their business I agree. I was never involved in anal sex. I tend to take the statement of these researchers with a grain of salt. My point is made, male and female just fits right. You do not have to agree.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fits right? Really? It might "fit right" if procreation was the only reason for living.
  
  Procreation is not the only reason for living.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nor is it the sole reason for marriage.
  Ask anyone who has been married for more than a couple of years!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  She never mentioned procreation, just that male and female 'fit right' and eluded to the fact that the anal passage was designed as a one way street for toxic substances to leave our body, not enter it.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course folk at entitled to abuse themselves as they please.
  
  (Must be politically correct huh!)
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then stop thinking about other people's sex lives.
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  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're correct, dzephaniah.
  And yes there are indeed "gays" who are against the so-called "gay rights" including gay "marriage". They have some common sense and morality, and simply struggle with temptations like anyone must do, AND they don't try to make America condone immorality.
  I respect those people very highly! They're given a bad name by the liberals who want to shove immorality into the lawbooks of America. And they're probably scared as heck to voice their opinions publicly 'cause they know from personal experience that they'll be ridiculed and bullied by the followers of the liberal agenda.
  
  And you're also correct when in your original post you said the majority of people are opposed to gay marriage. This has been proven by polls and by votes and shown in the media, yet the Democrat Party leaders and other liberals keep pushing the idea into all arenas that they're in the majority. Why people listen to them is beyond me, especially since they're usually openly aggressive, hateful, and oppositional to authority. Guess it's because bullying really does work sometimes. For a while anyway. 'Cause it's escalating. What bothers me the most is that they're seducing (and bullying) our Nation's youth.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gallup polling shows 53% of Americans support gay marriage, Gallup Polling shows 51% of people agree with Obama endorsing gay marriage. I am sure in your mind that Gallup is an evil liberal lie but yeah the facts disagree with you oh also:
  
  A March 7-10 ABC News/Washington Post poll found 52% of adults thought it should be legal for same-sex couples to get married, while 42% disagreed and 5% were unsure.
  
  A March survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found 52% of Americans supported allowing same-sex couples to marry, while 44% opposed.
  
  Both taken this year.
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  dzephaniahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I want to point out that gay couples should have similar rights as married couples, as far as legal protections. However don't call that a "marriage". Let's stop being stupid and politically correct. People that advocate for gay marriage, hate God and religion (and anything else in that matter). They take an advantage of an average nice citizen, who is considerate and thoughtful, and doesn’t make a noise, by spitting them in the face. Because life is ugly for them, they want the rest of us to suffer the consequences. A marriage is between man and woman that can produce children, not for gays with sodomy relations. It will not stand. I believe that it will surely cost Obama the election.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  70% of America is christian, more than 50% support gay marriage... Do the math, not all Christians want to preserve inequality and stifle peoples freedoms, you don't speak for Christians when you say gay marriage is wrong and you definitely do not speak for people who support gay marriage when you say their lives are ugly. I think it's fine for gay people not to have the option of a Christian marriage but that is where the rights of Christians to tell other people what they can and can't do with their own lives ends, all beyond that is tyranny nd oppression.
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  j-u-i-c-eposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "They take an advantage of an average nice citizen, who is considerate and thoughtful, and doesn’t make a noise, by spitting them in the face. Because life is ugly for them, they want the rest of us to suffer the consequences."
  
  I found this amusing, because it's typically how I feel about religious zealots.
  
  Incidentally, I'm not part of any organized religion, but I don't hate God or religion. I hate ignorance and bigotry.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am all for not being stupid and not being politically correct. What you're saying however is actually quite bigoted and hateful. Let's start with, "People that advocate for gay marriage, hate God and religion (and anything else in that matter)." Are you friggin' serious? Many of the gay individuals and others who advocate for gay marriage believe in God and love Him. They want their relationships to be blessed by Him and accepted by others. Whatever a Christian might believe about whether or not homosexuality is right, it's unbelievably closed minded and ridiculous to make (and actually believe) a statement such as this. And, do you honestly believe that homosexuals are homosexual because they hate everything? Come on. They want acceptance.
  
  And those who advocate gay marriage "take advantage of an average nice citizen...who doesn't make a noise..." That's rich. Doesn't make a noise? Opponents of gay marriage are average nice citizens who don't make a noise? What the heck do you think you're doing? You're screaming at the top of your lungs that everyone who doesn't think like you is a freak, a sodomite, and miserable in their existence. That's not what my Jesus taught. Perhaps I don't know the right Christ?
  
  A marriage is only between a man and a woman who can produce children? So, all the childless married couples over the centuries are an abomination to God? Those men and women didn't love God or live out their vocations?
  
  Wow.
  
  I'm so grateful I don't think that way.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so glad you don't think that way either, because I would worry about your sanity.
  BTW, I think the Jesus you know is the right one and he's smiling.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, MM.
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  Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Question...
  
  Would people still oppose gay marriage on moral grounds if we could prove either..
  
  a) That God does not exist
  
  b) It was shown that God wasn't opposed
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  kerrygposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By the way, is there a particular reason you chose a picture of an anti-rape demonstration to illustrate your tirade against gay marriage? It's kind of an interesting choice, especially given the aforementioned Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well I agree with Gay marriage and the polling is pretty clear, Gallup has been doing those for years as have several other organizations and the results are not really in question all those organizations have got between 50 and 53% for the last several years.
  
  All people who support gay marriage want to do is to give people the same rights to marry whom they love that you or I have, it is sad that so many people just want to deny people their rights.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I count 7 to 3 for gay marriage in this thread (possibly seven to four)
  
  Honestly I don't understand how people can have a problem with this, no one follows all the restrictions and laws of the old testament, no one stones people to death for working on Sunday, no one is calling for a ban on divorce and remarriage (which Jesus condemned repeatedly) etc. but yet people are against giving gay people the same rights heterosexuals have?
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  FatFreddysCatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't really give a hoot one way or the other, it's irrelevant to me, but in the immortal words of Ted Nugent, "you can @#$% buffalo for all I care, as long as you don't make me watch."
  
  If gays want to be just as miserable as us married 'straights', then what the hell, let'em have it.
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  j-u-i-c-eposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I support equal rights. I don't personally know anyone opposed to gay marriage, so in my social circle support for gay marriage is 100%.
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  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How does it insult the institution of marriage?
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can believe what you want, but reputable research shows that the more Americans now support gay marriage than oppose it. This is very recent and it's still a pretty slim margin, but things have been steadily trending that way.
  http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynu … berID=1202
  
  Echoing what some other commenters have said, I think a lot of your perception depends on where you live and your social circles. I too don't know anyone who doesn't support gay marriage. As the mother of young children, I'll also say that most kids these days (at least where I live) know other kids who have gay parents and it's just a normal part of life. We talk to our kids in more gender neutral language about love and relationships. No, this won't make our kids "turn gay" - it will just help them to be more accepting and inclusive, rather than hateful, towards others.
  
  I think states that have banned gay marriage are going to be hanging their heads in shame in 50 years, just like states that supported segregation 50 years ago are now.
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  ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are too many differences between gays and straights for them to all be in the traditional classical ideology of marriage.
  
  The gays swing different than straights, they have by necessity a more unorthodox consummation of having sex. They can't procreate naturally, and there can only be one natural parent in their relationship.
  
  They need then to bundle their love relationship into a gay specific package that doesn't deviate so strongly from marriage.
  
  They have the money and the political power to change the civil union law to have the same equality of legal status as that of marriage, sans validation of their lifestyle by society.
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  jenniferrpoveyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm finding radmasters' message a little confusing.
  
  Are you saying that every single gay person on the planet has a relationship that 'deviates strongly from marriage'?
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  TahoeDocposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He lost me at "gay specific package". I had images of an infomercial... lol.
  
  And both couples that I know used one partner's eggs implanted into the other woman. The egg donor is the biological mother, the one who carried the pregnancy was the recipient of an egg and sperm donor (just like hetero couples who use donors when conception isn't possible for a biological reason).
  
  Sounds like two mommies to me, unless you also don't consider other women who use an egg donor, but carry the pregnancy, to be a real mom. Of course, then we also have to tell all the heterosexual couples who use donors that they aren't real parents either. Better get started on that...
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  Mahmoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We thank our Lord who kept us away from these dirts and ill thinking which is against the nature of animals let alone the humanbeings.
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  waynetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think gay marriage should only be allowed for the Hamsters!
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Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
The institution of marriage has suffered a lot worse insults than this.
People living together outside of marriage, even having kids outside of marriage.
Young golddiggers marrying old codgers strictly for their money.
Interracial couples who not long ago were looked down upon.
Divorce is rampant -- 1 in 2 marriages ends in divorce.
How about people who get married 7 times? No cheapening of the venerable institution of marriage there, right?
Then there is the conduct of people within the institution of marriage.
Men who cheat on their wives. Women who cheat on their husbands.
Incest
Spousal and child abuse
Polygamy
Childless by choice couples

The list goes on and on.

Marriage has taken enough hits from within the hetero population.
Granting gay couples the right to marry in ct strengthens the institution.

I
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  atlovesbmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right on, Mighty Mom!
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  Disturbiaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mighty Mom, I don't always agree with your views, but in this case, I completely agree with everything you say... when you go down the list you have provided of "hits from within the hetero population" it makes any argument against gay marriage seem ridiculous.
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen, Mighty Mom!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Poverty and unemployment are undermining marriage more than anything else. Unemployed men (and women) are poor candidates for marriage.
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Dave Mathewsposted 12 years ago
There is no such thing as a "Gay" marriage. the word marriage implies a unioun between a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. These gay people simply are deceiving themselves.
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  dzephaniahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have a very good point, thank you. I also feel for gays. They feel bad about themselves and by trying to legitimize their relationships; they are trying to feel better about themselves. What I don’t like, is the fact that they are trying to force the rest of us to believe and accept that nonsense. However this is my opinion. I encourage everyone to voice their opinion. I want to hear where we are standing as a society, and how far out we have gone. I want to know if there is a point of no return.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I feel saddened and sorry for these Gay People. It must be extremely difficult, being in their shoes. I know that governments around the world are doing whatever to try and make their lives more bearable, like legitimizing their relationships, But, God is the ultimate power over all government God is Sovereign and has the last word in everything. God has said that their lifestyle is a No No.
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  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I feel sadden and sorry of these people who believe in man made god that still governs people lives in this day and age. Who said "the word marriage implies a unioun between a man and a woman"? This CAN be changed and eventually will. Forgoet this man made god BS. Get real! Think for yourself for a change! As for this Biblical BS about homosexuality, the Bible also says that if I see my neighbor mowing his grass on a Sunday, he's suppose to be killed! We don't see much of that happening, now do we?!
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, don't you dare wear a cotton/poly blend! Straight to hell for that one!!
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
"Condone the sin and make it law" is quite a stretch from love the sinner and hate the sin!
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well you condone heterosexuality and in gods eyes that was a sin after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit. But now thats law! So are you saying that heterosexuality is also a stretch?
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  Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe there is a law mandating heterosexuality.
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Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago
The "marriage institution" is a construct of religion. It's perfectly fine if you think such a thing exists, but it's not a real "thing" to anyone else. Your religion should not be the basis of telling other people how to live.

The worst part of this is that it's such a huge illustration of how Americans are hell bent on denying freedom to each other. We want to tell each other who we can marry, when we have to wear helmets and seat belts, what vaccines we have to get or make our kids get, what chips we have to put in our pets... we want to force people give their money to villainous and corrupt insurance companies in the name of "fair" health care, we want to raise the holy crap out of taxes on anyone's cigarette or booze, we want to deny pot heads the right to pot, we want to go stop anyone from doing anything we don't like. The whole lot of us thinks we know what's right for everyone else because we all think we're so much damn smarter than everyone else.

The founding fathers are rolling over in the graves right now, weeping and the tragic degree of self-righteousness and arrogance that has overtaken us. The false war between Right and Left is robbing us all of our liberty. Freedom means just what it says, FREEDOM. Stop telling people how to live their lives.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would think they'd be pretty proud of how far we've come (even if it's with neverending partisan rancor). A sitting president, one facing reelection, no less, states openly that he favors equal rights?
  
  Those fighting equality are facing a losing battle, as history has demonstrated time and time again.
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  Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, but we get freedoms with one hand and take them away with ten.
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calpol25posted 12 years ago
@ Dave Matthews - I usually keep out of these forums now but God said no such thing about our lives being a NO NO! Because God does not speak, people speak! If god was to speak he would probably tell you how wrong you are with that remark.
Man wrote the bible
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my_girl_saraposted 12 years ago
The good news is that the government is letting the states decide the issue, regardless of which side you support.. If they had done the same for abortion, we wouldn't have so much controversy.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately most states are choosing to violate the 14th amendment to the Constitution. There is nothing noble about allowing states to discriminate against a class of citizens, just because a majority of people find it convenient to do so.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HI livelonger - its so sad that they are doing this.
  
  Experience has taught me this little piece of useless info - When people dont want to accept something they put barriers up, some make laws but eventually these rules will be overcome it just takes patience and a lot of faith in the goodness of people.
  
  Sorry to bore you lol
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calpol25posted 12 years ago
A question for you - Would it not be so much easier to abolish marriage all together on all sides Heterosexual and Homosexual then take it from there?
Grant everyone the same rights as everyone else, but without the marriage making heterosexuals do the same and see if that would work?
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my_girl_saraposted 12 years ago
I think heterosexuals would like it if homosexuals called it something else and not "marriage." Give them rights but don't call it marriage.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you speaking on behalf of all heterosexuals? Most the heterosexuals I know have absolutely no problem sharing the term.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, oddly enough although at first here in Britain most had a problem.. I suppose its like I said "Its all new to them" lol
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calpol25posted 12 years ago
Here we call it a civil partnership in the UK why dont they term it that there?
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Separate but equal" is an un-American concept ever since Brown vs Board of Education.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  un-British too lol
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hopefully the current civil partnership/marriage gulf will get bridged in the UK, too.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Things have a habit of working out, here in the UK when it was first legalized in 2005 we met all kinds of obstacles and bigotry, but now 7 years on people are accepting it as the norm.
  Perhaps its because its all new to people that they are making such a huge fuss against Gay marriage.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I suspect you're right. It's mostly older people here, who grew up in an age where homosexuality was demonized, that have problems with gay equality (but certainly not all of them). As they die off, attitudes change.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your quite right, we still face that problem with the same generation here, it was only in 1967 when it was decriminalized here in the UK and that was for consenting adults of the age of 21 so we still are on a journey of acceptance but not as longer road as it was back then lol
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Disturbiaposted 12 years ago
I'm completely in favor of gay marriage. If gays want to marry, why not? Who are they hurting? I don't know why so many people have such a problem with this.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's easier to obsess about others' sins and restrict their freedoms, than to mind your own behavior and/or limit your own freedoms.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is the truest thing I ever read livelonger.
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  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Disturbia, I completely agree with you. There are even gay sites with the same sort of thing, 'seedy dating for a cheat against your partner' Why dont we start a protest??
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silverstararrowposted 12 years ago
Marriage is a decision taken by two individuals or people directly connected to them. Same sex relationships have been prevalent for a while now. Just because a political head condones/combats it, there is hardly any reason for debate. If the majority could overlook the 'gay' aspect for so long, why should the addition of marriage into the equation tip the balance against people who are homosexual.

Society is comprised of all sorts of individuals who must learn to live in harmony with the rest. As long as peace prevails, somebody's business is nobody's business except their own.

This is just an argument that stems from the age old view of a man and a woman getting married and raising a family together. The reality of two people of the same sex indulging in a similar practice is a hard pill to swallow for the 'suppossed' adults who have taken up the stance of moral police (and they form a strong majority). In due course of time, this debate too will be settled like all hot topics. Maybe in favour of the gay people and activists.
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TahoeDocposted 12 years ago
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOVE IT! This is brilliant - thank you for sharing!
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read! I love items like number 9: It has been proven again and again that children raised in single parent homes or homes missing a male or female role model have all kinds of problems. Doesn't matter whether it's a homosexual marriage or not. Whoever wrote this has taken every bigoted statement that exists and twisted it to make it appear that opposing gay marriage is something only an idiot would do. It isn't brilliant, it is an insult to the intelligence of anybody with a brain.
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  
  That was some good points in a sarcastic way sort of.
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dzephaniahposted 12 years ago
I thank you for your replies and opinions. I wanted to know what people think in general about a gay marriage.
People that I come from, don’t ever to talk about the gay relationships. If there are gays among us, they never come out. They must keep it to themselves.
As for myself, as a descendant of my family, I truly believe in God and his laws, and follow as many of them as I can (I’m not a religious person in general). My mind is unable to imagine a gay relationship all together (gay marriage is an absurd proposition. To me it is the same as a shameless whore pretending to be a virgin). If I had gay tendencies, the only way that I would be able to live with myself, is to suppress them, otherwise I would have to bail out from this life.
This law wasn’t made up by men. Below is the commandment from the bible:
“Not to have sexual relations with a male, as it is written "thou shalt not lie with mankind" And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. “(Leviticus 18, 22).
It sounds harsh today, but the bible hints that many people might have gay tendencies, but it is prohibited to act upon them altogether.
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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That statement is such a damning indictment of a scripture-driven morality.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This statement here also shows that you have no understanding of your own life, much less have any rational ability to speak on a subject matter which doesn't concern you.
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's time to say what so many younger people today want to say: let's get rid of all the rules and traditions of living. Legalize drugs. Have interracial and homosexual marriages or abolish marriage altogether. Use sperm banks and surrogates to have kids so we can intermix our bloodlines ad infinitum. Deregulate all the banks. Play instead of working. Debunk religion.
  
  If you want a world of chaos and confusion, keep it up. We're almost there.
  
  Personally, I'm sick of the whole mess. You can't make chicken liver out of chicken s--t! Marriage isn't going to make gay people less gay, more happy or allow them to be more accepted by society. And it IS going to hurt society as a whole because they will cost the country more in many ways, both financial and societal. The great societies of old...ancient Rome, for example, all went under once they started breaking all the basic rules of living. We're next.
  
  Personally, I like structure and rules and traditions and guidelines. I grew up in a world where those things existed and while not perfect, at least the world was functional and prospered.
  
  People need to look ahead and think about consequences before they jump on bandwagons. It is what it is.
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  j-u-i-c-eposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Have interracial ... marriages ... intermix our bloodlines"
  Wow. Not often you get to see posts from the '30s. You really are a time traveler, aren't you?
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
For the legal folks among us Hubbers: How do state statutes on "common law marriages" apply (or don't they) to gay couples living together?
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know, but I do know one thing: the legal complications of gay marriages will be many and the children will suffer the most.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Clarify?
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a real example. I know a family where, after marrying and fathering two children, the husband declares he is gay. His wife divorces him and refuses to let him or his parents ever see the kids again. The kids lose their father, the grandparents lose their grandchildren and the family is destroyed. The stress between the husbands parents is horrible, which damages their marriage and their relationship with him as well. He then goes on to "marry" (it's illegal here) another guy who also broke up his family in the same way and caused the same amount of destruction. One of his kids is also gay now. So, the first guy's family is destroyed, his kids are damaged, his parents are damaged, the second guys family is destroyed and his kids are damaged as well. That's where it is right now. But let's take it a step further. Let's say these two guys decide to adopt and then divorce later. Now we have more children involved plus the custody battles from the first two marriages AND the one that will come from this one. You will say this happens in straight marriages too, and to an extent you are right...except that in most cases, the kids get to retain relationships with their father and grandparents. THIS is where the shoe pinches....and I'm sure there are many other legal ramifications people haven't even considered yet...
  
  Isn't the world messy enough without potentially making it worse? In divorce situations there can be medical issues, social security issues, etc. ,etc. THAT's what I'm talking about...but I'm basically concerned about what happens to the families. Situations like these are devastating and until you have seen the suffering first hand, you can't know just how painful it is.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read, and I have seen some thins, are you seriously suggesting it would be better if gay people were forced to stay in straight relationships?
  
  As for the second part yeah marriage can be messy marriage of any kind, that argument is not particular against gay marriage so unless you support outlawing all marriage it is worthless. Your comment: You will say this happens in straight marriages too, and to an extent you are right...except that in most cases, the kids get to retain relationships with their father and grandparents. There is no reason why gay marriage will have any effect on this at all no reason kids cannot retain those same relationships.
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Josak: THAT'S what you got out of my comment? Really? You need to read it again...I NEVER said gay people should stay in straight marriages! I was simply giving a real life example of what happens when they try to do so and what can happen later. This was in response to someone asking for a clarification of a comment I made about legalities.
  
  It's all well and good to stand up for what you believe to be right, but people need to be realistic. Blaming this particular problem on the prejudices of the other people involved is ridiculous. In the real world, people DO have issues with homosexuality and they act on those prejudices. Those who are homosexual mostly understand this and this being the case, they should keep kids out of the mix.
  
  While I agree that many kids from same sex marriages do OK, many also do not. And they suffer...a lot...at the hands of other children. Kids can be incredibly cruel...but nobody wants to think about that part of it. Everybody is so busy being politically correct about this issue that they forget how much suffering comes to others as the result of same sex relationships.
  
  Should it be this way? No. Is it this way? Yes. Half of the people in America favor same sex marriage...but how many would favor it if someone in their own family...a son or a daughter...turned out to be gay. The answer might surprise you..
  
  And one more thing: the total score hasn't been tallied yet. Kids can appear to do well and be normal...but I have worked with thousands of kids and can tell you that deep seated emotional problems sometimes don't appear for many years.
  
  I knew a seemingly sweet, loving, well behaved child who wound up in jail for attempting to murder his grandmother. You simply cannot tell what's going on in people's heads and just saying "oh, they're well behaved", etc. doesn't get it.
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, sorry, I'm confused. Looking at this situation my response is that if people weren't so unaccepting of gay people in this country those two men may have never married women in the first place. I do know that some people don't figure out that they are gay until later in life, after they have married and had children, but some gay people (like the ones you describe) are still trying to "fit in" by trying to lead a straight life. If they weren't made to feel so ashamed by their sexuality or that it was "wrong" and unacceptable, perhaps the situation could have been avoided in the first place!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Doing what is right for the sake that it is right is never wrong regardless of the complications it makes upon society. Society must grow and that growth begins on the individual level.
  
  The issue is nothing more than distortion. A man and woman reserve the right to marry as they choose, and no one has a right to interfere with their choice, regardless of sexuality or religious belief.
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  TahoeDocposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It sounds like the real problem is with heterosexual divorce. Divorce and remarriage should be banned.
  
  You should join this group. They seek to do just that- ban divorce so that the sanctity of marriage can be preserved. No breaking up families because someone finally decided to come out, because someone is being abused, because of infidelity, etc.
  https://www.facebook.com/RescueMarriage/info
  
  As they say...."No one is born divorced, it's a lifestyle choice."
  
  Here's an example for you...
  
  Each of my children has a kid in their class who has "two mommies". Both of the mothers love the children very much. Each partner has gainful employment, pays their taxes, bathes, feeds and cares for their kids. None are abusive alcoholics (like my father was), none are neglectful.
  
  Of all of the kids in the class, these kids (4 total) are among the ones who are ALWAYS welcome in my home because they are respectful and kind. Their parents, likewise, are amazing, kind, peaceful, loving human beings who happen to love and be committed to a partner of the same sex. I know them and their children very well and have no doubts about their love for each other and their kids.
  
  Just sayin'
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, there is really a group that wants to ban divorce in all cases? So, a woman who is being abused should just stick with it? While I would like there to be more done to minimize the # of divorces out there, it is a horrible, arrogant, misguided idea that people should stay married in these situations (kind of like telling a young girl who has been brutally raped that she should keep her blessing of a child, but I shouldn't go there). Thinking that it's better for the kids for parents who hate each other or are violent towards each other (or simply don't belong together) to stay together "for the kids" is so misguided and doesn't do anyone any good, including the children.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's a parody of the "Save Marriage" anti-gay types.
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  LauraGTposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, I guess I should have looked at it before I ranted!
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  TahoeDocposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No more complicated that any other marriage.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey UW, that's exactly why I said it didn't make any sense and asked for clarification.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Common Law Marriages in my state are non-existent and haven't been recognized in years.
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
How many more states are lined up to define marriage as between one man and one woman?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not many left.
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jenniferrpoveyposted 12 years ago
There's some evidence that the early Christian church had marriage ceremonies specifically designed for the union of two men.

In any case. I support same sex marriage. I also support the right of churches and clergy to refuse to perform same sex ceremonies (or ANY marriage that violates the tenets of their religion) without being sued for discrimination, and feel that any amendment or law legalizing same sex marriage needs to contain proper legal protections that continue to guarantee full religious freedom. Including the freedom to think homosexuality is a sin.

My personal opinion is that the best way to do this is to separate civil marriage from the religious institution altogether. This model works well in parts of continental Europe. A legal marriage requires a contract signed in front of witnesses...and at the legal and secular level, that is all marriage is. A contract. What you do in church is separate. A marriage in a church confers no legal rights and a church can freely ignore a secular marriage (civil union, whatever).

It's very important that those of us who support same sex marriage start to show more respect for those who remain opposed, no matter how we feel about it.

Note that I never use 'gay marriage'. Same sex marriage is not only for people who are completely homosexual, but for bisexuals who choose a same sex partner and some transgendered individuals (for example, a male to female who wants to marry her boyfriend before going through reassignment surgery, rather than having to wait until she has a female identity).
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jenniferrpoveyposted 12 years ago
So, the children will suffer more when they have legal protection and can't be dragged screaming away from their surviving parent when their biological parent dies, because that parent's family didn't approve of their relationship.

This has happened.

It has happened more than once.

And the ONLY proper, scientific, longitudinal study done on children raised in same sex relationships (specifically by lesbian couples) demonstrated that these children had, statistically, higher grades and a greater level of psychological stability than a control sample of children from 'normal' heterosexual families. This may, of course, have more to do with the fact that these children are more planned for and wanted than the average child born to a traditional marriage simply because heterosexual couples have accidents and/or have children because they are 'expected' to...because, for example, their parents won't leave them alone about when the grandchildren are arriving. But there is NO evidence that children suffer in any way (other than ways inflicted by society, perhaps) from being raised by two parents of the same sex.

I agree that children ARE better off with two parents and a stable family, but those two parents do not have to be of opposite sexes, or even married to one another. And if the child needs a role model of the opposite sex, that's what family friends and/or godparents are for.
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Alexisjacksonposted 12 years ago
I don't think anything is wrong with it, I feel like it doesn't have anything to do with me and it's not affecting me why should I have a problem with what someone else is doing in their relationship. I know homosexuals who have been together longer than some heterosexual couples. Since were putting god into it and such things, do you think it's okay for an atheist to get married?? I mean they don't believe in your god, but yet a homosexual who has faith can't?
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In truth, Alexis, it all breaks down to which "sin" the Christian is willing to overlook...the rejection of their God, or the homosexual behavior.
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  Alexisjacksonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very well put.
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  j-u-i-c-eposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have never seen the difference between judging people based on the color of their skin and judging them based on their sexual orientation.
  
  Let's up the ante and start judging people based on whether or not they prefer blondes or brunettes. Actually, come to think of it, humanity tried that once.
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  Alexisjacksonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is no difference, it is all ignorance. but you can't force someone to believe what you believe but they should mind their own business, gay marriage isn't going to hurt anyone so whats the big deal?
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  Paulshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some of these Christians are quick to get out their "save the marriage institution' and "one man one woman ("women" if they’re Mormon)" when over 51% of them have been married more than once. Heterosexuals have made such a mockery of this so-called institution, when it is, or was, considered breaking a promise to God for divorcing. As far as this homosexuality being a sin (LOL), the Bible also says that if you see your neighbor mowing their grass on Sunday, they are to be stoned to death. I don’t see anyone protesting or making fools of themselves when they see these people working on the Sabbath. Isn’t breaking a commandment is more serious than a simple sin? Maybe these rightous ignorant bigots can’t get out to catch these commandment breakers because their jobs require them to work on Sunday. .
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
By virtue of the shift in focus from all the other issues of such magnitude for all Americans, in one statement to the press President Obama has succeeded in diverting attention from all those issues...to this one. The election is about the next four years and the last three. This one issue will be settled in the Congress' debates to come on the Defense of Marriage Act and in the courts. Public opinion is always important, so is the balance of power going forward on the issues of getting Americans back to work, the burdensome national debt, defense spending, foreign wars and bases, the trade imbalance, rising medical costs, and our standard of living. Let's hear a few words about those issues as well as this one.
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jenniferrpoveyposted 12 years ago
Okay. So because this one guy was a jerk (and his wife, for that matter...I understand being upset, but talk about an over-reaction), gay people shouldn't get married?

First of all, the INDIVIDUALS involved were wrong. The husband was wrong for entering into a heterosexual relationship when he was not heterosexual. The wife was wrong for tearing her children away from their father.

Second of all, SOCIETY was wrong. Why wasn't this guy given legal visitation rights? Oh right. Because he was gay and might 'damage' his children.

The real thing I am going to take issue with, though, is your statement that one of the children being gay proves that they are damaged.

Homosexuality is not DAMAGE. Scientific evidence, based off of brain scans of heterosexual and homosexual individuals, points very strongly towards sexuality being set before birth. People do not become gay except in extremely rare situations, such as a bisexual woman swearing off men for life because she dated one jerk too many (seen it).

People cannot become gay.

People cannot be turned gay.

People cannot become straight.

People cannot be turned straight.

Period.

The only people who can 'choose' are the very small percentage of the population who are born with no sexual orientation at all. And most have some preference or leaning one way or the other, to some degree. You can make a case that a bisexual person 'chooses' based off of the gender of their current partner, but...it doesn't make that person not bisexual. Being married to a man for 15 wonderful years has not made me straight. I am not straight. I am bisexual. Nothing can change that. Just because I don't go around sleeping with women as well as my husband because, you know, I'm a nice, loyal woman who wouldn't do stuff like that, doesn't make me straight.
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  ftclickposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Jennifer, people can become gay if exposed to it at an early age and given images of not so attractive organs of opposite sex. I have many personal cases of this.Yet, the person is experimental ( bi if you will or likes TGs and women, but not men) .A civil union with benefits is enough for me.
  
  "Scientific evidence, based off of brain scans of heterosexual and homosexual individuals, points very strongly towards sexuality being set before birth." Before birth?..One study does not make it case closed as we know with many so-called medical advances.
  
  Gay marriage is not meant to be nor will Hollywood directors and staff ever slam it down all of USA to make them accept it.
  
  It is not an advancement. Gays ask for so much tolerance yet once someone disagrees with their vision, they condemn that person like they are the majority.
  We all know gay people, work with them whatever, will attend their entertainment (comedy, movies, etc) but trying to cross it over into an equal rights issue is a stretch. Marriage is man and woman. Gays can do anything that anyone else does but because they "choose" to be attracted to the same sex is not a reason for legalizing marriage between them
  Strange how pets and other mammals do not do engage in same ..x intimate activities.
  Nowadays,a family is sometimes just a mom and a child or a father and a child. Now that it became so prevalent, people believe that only a mom is needed or 2 moms (gay) or 2 dads is OK too.
  X & Y chromosomes are needed to produce a baby for a reason.. for a man & woman. I understand some women are masculine and some men are feminine and on and on but that doesn't mean a marriage is the natural answer.
  I will say that probably 50% of women are accepting of gay marriage but NOT 50% of men.
  Gay marriage is even partners will never be accepted in locker rooms of pro athletes who are alpha males. I think gay marriage will be legal in certain states but never all of them nor should it be. Pro-choice applies.
  I know, I know it does sound like the pre-60s but being a minority myself they are not as similar. You can be gay and nobody will know when you apply for a job but when you are African American or dark-skinned Latino the interviewer knows.
  
  So everything has to change for a wrong?
  
  children will now have school forms with Mother and Mother? or Father & feminine guy
  birth certificates will have what - mom & masculine mom?
  proms will be King and King? Queen and Queen
  transgenders want to enter national beauty pageants as a woman?
  Gay masculine women want to play on male sports teams?
  
  it is going too far. I am not sure why I even say these things as it will most likely not happen on a national level. maybe just 3 states - CA,NY,MA
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  jenniferrpoveyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Jennifer, people can become gay if exposed to it at an early age and given images of not so attractive organs of opposite sex. I have many personal cases of this.Yet, the person is experimental ( bi if you will or likes TGs and women, but not men) .A civil union with benefits is enough for me.
  
  - I have never heard of this.
  
  It is not an advancement. Gays ask for so much tolerance yet once someone disagrees with their vision, they condemn that person like they are the majority.
  
  - I'm not entirely going to deny this. Many liberals are just as intolerant as the worst of conservatives and I have definitely met over-defensive people who can't handle those who disagree with them.
  
  We all know gay people, work with them whatever, will attend their entertainment (comedy, movies, etc) but trying to cross it over into an equal rights issue is a stretch. Marriage is man and woman. Gays can do anything that anyone else does but because they "choose" to be attracted to the same sex is not a reason for legalizing marriage between them
  Strange how pets and other mammals do not do engage in same ..x intimate activities.
  
  Item #1: Who the hell would CHOOSE to be gay in a society that, while better than most, does not accept them? Do teenagers choose to be gay...and then kill themselves because of bullying, which happens a lot.
  
  Item #2: Animals not engaging in same sex intimate activities is total BS. I have personally seen two male horses turned out together engage in gay sex ('situational homosexuality' in this case - there wasn't a female around so they were relieving sexual tension with each other. It stopped after they were gelded...although castration doesn't entirely remove sexual desire, it does reduce it).
  
  Also:
  
  'In greylag geese, nearly a fifth of all long-term couples are composed of two males' - http://www.livescience.com/11125-birds-gay.html
  
  in a zoo at Slimbridge, a pair of male flamingos set up house together and stole eggs from other couples, have raised several perfectly healthy chicks together and show equal parenting skills to straight couples...to the point where when a female abandoned her nest, the keepers gave the egg to the gay guys: http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=62594
  
  Gay marriage is even partners will never be accepted in locker rooms of pro athletes who are alpha males. I think gay marriage will be legal in certain states but never all of them nor should it be. Pro-choice applies.
  
  - The choice to have a gay marriage includes the choice not to have one. The 'choice' not to be allowed one is quite different. That's like 'healthy options' in schools meaning 'nothing with any fat in it allowed'.
  
  children will now have school forms with Mother and Mother? or Father & feminine guy
  
  - 'Parent and parent'. Or just 'Parent(s)'. Much better.
  
  transgenders want to enter national beauty pageants as a woman?
  
  - A male to female transgender IS a woman. What, are you afraid they're going to win?
  
  Gay masculine women want to play on male sports teams?
  
  - I personally know one of the women who integrated saber fencing in the UK. She was sure as heck not gay. Or masculine. No relevance.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Marriage as defined by government is a man and woman, at present. But, government doing so is in violation of citizens rights. Which is based on both genders.
  
  Regardless of sexuality, every man and woman has and reserves the individual right to marry whoever they choose.
  
  It's an individual rights violation to tell them NO!
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charlotte44posted 12 years ago
I think as long a people are not hurting any one and as long as they are happy and bring joy and love to this evil world we live in then they should be allow to get married and adopt and be happy
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
This debate and focus, which will ultimately be settled by the courts and the Congress, relates to the approximately 4% of Americans who are homosexual, while we are in the throes of a larger debate which relates to all Americans. For the activists among the 4%: influence the 2012 Election so you have a better chance of having your agenda legitimized. For the activists among the other 96% (some of whom are also America's homosexual citizens) may I urge you to influence the rest of America's future by participating in the larger debates and activism?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I find the above statement ridiculous. Just because it affects/effect only 4% of the population, doesn't mean anything at all. Throwing that out there is nothing more than distraction and distortion.
  
  50% of the people in this country are men and the other 50% are women, and that's just a rough guess. ALL man and woman have and reserve the right to marry WHOMEVER they choose to marry and no one is to stand in their way. As you can see it doesn't just affect/effect 4%. It does establish equal rights for every person.
  
  It doesn't matter if you're born in a specific manner or way, your individual right to marry is still a right to marry.
  
  It doesn't matter if you decided to become gay/lesbian or anything else, you still remain to hold and reserve the right to marry whomever.
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Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago
You were invited. Of course you don't need to accept.
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