But every now and then I feel straight, or at least fool myself into believing it.
Why can't I just accept this
Are you very young?
If you are gay, you will know, if not now then soon enough.
Oh to be 19 again!
You might not be gay you know, you might just be confused.
However, I'm pretty certain that straight guys don't have this doubt, at 19.
Take care not to label yourself, stay in doubt until you fall head over heels in love with someone. Then you will know, one way or the other.
Your sexuality is private, no-one else's business, for as long as you want it to be.
Maybe straight guys might not, but I still have doubts at 30-something. I'm neither straight nor a guy though.
Why apply a label anyway? Go find someone to love. If they happen to be a guy, then you will be in a gay relationship. If they are a girl, you will be in a straight relationship. Continue process until you are happy. Then slap a label on the relationship that you want to spend the rest of your life in.
I couldn't agree with you more, MelissaB! That's what I did, when you 'just let it happen' you never know who you'll end up with. I would have never thought at 19 that I would end up being in a relationship with another female. But I did. We've been together for 10 years now.
Maybe bi? Stranger things have happened.
Don't confuse your self. Whether you're straight or gay, you are perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong to WHO you are...
I too think that you're confused. Do you ever got attracted to any girl and was truely in love with her?? If yes then you are straight. Topic of gays are too common now. Maybe you think so because you think too much about this topic.. Just be normal. And see. If still you get attracted to a male then maybe you're a gay. Getting attracted doesn't means to be attracted by his personality. People sometimes get attracted to the personality of some people of same sex. That doesn't means that you're a gay. But if you get attracted the other way. If not then you're straight. Just don't think about it much and let everything go on by themselves. You'll discover the truth. Be happy
Maybe you are not yet sure of yourself. You need to be sure, adjust and accept it After all, theres nothing wrong being a gay. goodluck! *pats back
Go have sex with both genders and figure out which one you enjoyed the most. Regardless of what happens, it doesn't really matter, because you're not actually restricted to having one or the other.
I agree with Cags - and what's more, I really think its more important who you choose to love than what sex they are. I've tried, personally, to keep love out of sex, but it doesn't work for me!
I agree, date a girl, date a guy and just roll from there.
Think about it this way, you have just effectively doubled the amount of people you can date in the world.
Your odds of finding love have increased substantially.
Have you written a letter to Dan Savage?
If you think that you KNOW you are gay, then you do. You didn't say that you think you are gay. The best way forward in my opinion, for what it's worth, is just to live how you want and stop worrying. Everything will come clean in the wash! And this is a good thing. Don't worry
It is unbelievable that people would advise you to experiment!
Your choice is clear. Dismiss the confusion (and the confusing responses) and live a straight life the way God intended people to live, or consider homosexuality a viable option and live in rebellion to God's laws and nature's laws.
Well, that's another choice each person must make, to believe or not believe.
Brenda, homosexuality is natural. deal with it. Get out of fantasyland.
Temptation is indeed natural.
So is the tendency, it would seem, for some people to try to persuade others that wrong is right and right is wrong.
Look, I'm not in an arguing mood right now. I put forth the Truth to the original poster, after several others gave him some wrong advice. My work is done. If yours isn't, then you're free to carry on. But it's futile to try to persuade me personally.
Being gay or lesbian isn't right or wrong. Regardless of your opinion.
Surely you didn't step in here just to say something redundant instead of profound?
Redundancy bores me. Profundity's much more fun. Rare, though.
Okay, how about this- Step off your pedestal and move on.
Profound enough for you?
That was redundant.
Besides, I'm not the droid you're looking for.
You're "force" ideology is just as bad as your beliefs, and just as comical.
Not as bad as your social graces (actually, lack thereof).
My social graces are saved for those who actually deserve them. Irrationality such as what you speak, doesn't deserve social graces.
When you actually learn that right and wrong are not as you perceive them, then maybe you might learn some social graces to go along with your god complex.
Cagsil, it is wrong. It is not what we say, but rather what God Almighty says. And yes, He IS real. Without a shadow of a doubt.
You should've said that about the posts where people advised the original poster to go experiment with sex with both genders; or hey, just the advice to a 19-year-old to experiment with sex at all, is much more immoral than anything I've said, period.
And no, talking about God and His laws is not immoral. Why would you even post that?
I'd put both of you in the same category: immoral.
How does Jesus feel about people who flout his word and live in second marriages, Brenda? Moral or immoral?
Depends on whether they're saved or not. And maybe you remember what the requirements for salvation entails. I'm pretty sure I've said it enough times.
Just to jog your memory, it's
r e p e n t a n c e
Foul word, that. At least to the rebellious. Because it requires a change of heart and mind, leading to a change of actions.
But awesome word too. After that, He removes our sins as far as the east is from the west. F o r g i v e n e s s . Another most awesome word!
So an adulterer can continue to live in an adulterous relationship provided they r e p e n t first?
Repentance includes turning from your sin, not continuing. So, the answer is no to your question, livelonger.
So people who are in second marriages need to return to their first spouses, as Jesus repeatedly commanded, right, Emily?
They cannot go back and undo what they did. If they are currently married, they stay with that person. I was referring to an adulterer in a relationship not their marriage.
That's not what Jesus said. Are you overriding what he said?
Jesus said a person who got divorced and remarried is living a life of adultery, and the only way to fix it is to return to their first spouse. The only exception is fornication (i.e. premarital sex, if the bride was found to not be a virgin on her wedding day).
Gosh, I'm so surprised that a right-wing Christian is ignorant about something that Jesus couldn't possibly be more clear about FOUR times in the Bible.
Here are the verses, since you seem to be unaware of them:
Matthew 5: 31-32
and what gender should intersex people be attracted to? Those biologically between male and female
Those are unique and individual cases and should be dealt with as such. Abnormalities are not an excuse upon which to base an entire society's mores or laws. They're cases where personal compassion and sympathy and aid should be given, not used as a tool to further the liberal agenda. That's what's wrong, those people are being used as scapegoats for political activism, their privacy invaded and their rights mishandled.
What is the liberal agenda?
People doing what makes them happy?
Or is everything evangelicals don't like the liberal agenda?
Nope. The liberal agenda is to call wrong right and right wrong. Which will eventually lead to a system where nothing is labeled wrong and nothing is labeled right, just opportunity for lawlessness and chaos.
Hey, it's not just evangelicals. It's God who laid out the rules. In stone, no less. And just because He's the God of mercy doesn't mean we should deliberately tempt Him.
According to the ten commandments rape is ok.
I'll take my English common law over ten commandments that don't include rape to rule my country.
You mean, because rape isn't specifically spoken of in the Ten Commandments, that you take that as God okaying it?
Eh....He gave people common sense and a conscience. I can't think of any reason He'd have to spell everything out for us! lol.
He gave people common sense? Where is the proof?
Common sense should tell you is that any man having sex with another man DOES NOT EFFECT YOU AT ALL. In fact it is extremely healthy to have sex.
How is something that is
-gives many added health bonuses
a bad thing?
Looks like you may need to rethink common sense. You can have your God(I support it), but realize his life has nothing to do with your beliefs, of stories passed on from ignorant people from centuries ago claiming God said that.. lol.
Well, its only bad if you start to become irresponsible and sleep around often having unprotected sex which leads to STD's, mostly curable, except for that damn AIDS, and possibly leads to a broken heart somewhere. Other than that, though, it's quite beneficial and fun indeed. Everything in life requires moderation. Too much of any good thing is bad.
Too little of it is also bad.
While I refrain from full sexual activity, mainly because I don't want to get pregnant and I don't trust contraceptives (if you knew some of the stories I knew, you'd be scared, too, and I don't abort, so, I'd be screwed). When in relationships, I still know how to have fun. Just in moderation...
What specifically do they call right and wrong that is backwards in your eyes?
Abnormalities? How's that if all fetuses start off intersex? Gender is not two discrete binary categories but rather a continuum.
So, your sympathy for them - do you think they shouldn't have a partner?
I totally agree with you, Brenda. God is very clear on this matter in His Word. Sodomy is a sin no matter if people are too proud to admit it or not.
"Sodomy" is something you have a fetish about, is it? Use the proper term, which can leave no doubt as to what you are talking about. Anal Intercourse.
Men can do it to men, men can do it to women, animals can do it to other animals.
Whoever does it to whom is none of your business, unless someone is forcing YOU into doing it, against your will.
By the way, there is no conclusive evidence that it "happened" at Sodom.
Oh, again by the way, if you personally were to allow this to happen between others, and you were to turn a blind eye to it, what do you suppose will happen to you on "Judgement Day?" I personally don't care. I don't believe there will be a judgement day for me, after my death. That does not mean I will do unspeakable, cruel things to another person. Much of the joy obtained from sex is in bringing love and happiness to the partner. This is something you need to remember whenever you are casting aspersions on anyone's sexual orientation.
Drop your judgement. Only make choices for your self. That only is your right.
Actually, there is evidence "that it happened" at Sodom. Genesis 19 gives us the story of two angels visiting Lot. Verses 4 and 5 say the men of Sodom told Lot to bring the two men (unknown to them they were angels) out "that we may know them". The term "know them" in the Bible refers to sexual intercourse. This, here, is a picture of sodomy.
I am sorry you do not believe in judgment day. However, whether you do or not, it will happen. "As it is appointed unto men once to die,but after this the judgment." God created sex, yes, to be a means of enjoyment and reproduction in the proper restrains of marriage only.
Whether people believe or not, God's Word stands. He will judge sodomites, as He will judge the rest of us.
The Sodomites wanted to rape the angels. Their crimes against fellow people, especially guests, were well documented in the Jewish oral tradition. Homosexuality was not one of them.
You used the term "sodomites", and we are talking about the city of Sodom, so you agree there were sodomites (therefore they were commiting sodomy) in Sodom right?
You see, I was proving that sodomy did take place in Sodom, and you just verified that such acts took place.
Read what was written... not interpret what you feel you need to invent to win a point.. especially when the real points seem to sail over your head!
Perhaps the term Sodomite refers to a person who hailed from Sodom! Have you considered the relevance of that?
Maybe you should read whats written. Ir seems pretty clear to me. The men of sodom wanted a sexual relationship with the two men/angels.
Have the Confidence To Meet and Take In a Point Head On....
Instead of Ducking huh!
I am not ducking anything. I have confidence--in God's Word. It has stood the test of time-His Word will stand. I can see that no matter what I say, based on the Bible, you are going to twist things and point fingers at me instead of staying on track ad accepting what the Bible says.
Listen to what is being said... if you can't read it and take it on board!
I didn't make the statement to have some lame defensive reaction... I made the statement because you completely Missed the point that Jason made and Now you are choosing to do the same with me! Let's leave it there Okay... perhaps you could do some writing here, instead of arguing with more senior members! After all, this thread Wasn't About YOU or GOD - Was it?
You're kidding, right?
A Sodomite is a person from Sodom. Period. In the Bible, they were guilty of acts of cruelty. Christians and Muslims constantly think it was a reference to homosexuality, as if homosexuality was akin to rape.
You ignored my question about divorce and adultery. Why is that, Emily?
Because I am still learning, and because I do not know everything (although the Bible has the answers), I do not want to jump into a question that I may not be able to give a satisfactory answer to, therefore I will look into your questions more deeply so I do not just ramble on. I will get back to you on your questions.
And yet you're 100% sure that the Bible condemns homosexuality. Is that because you know and love plenty of divorced/remarried people?
I urge you to read (very, very carefully) the Bible, preferably in the original Hebrew and Aramaic, and not accept the translations and interpretations of modern-day pharisees.
Emily, I suggest you get to know some gay people. Make friendships. Love them unconditionally. Drop the bible in the waste paper basket for a while. Support and encourage. By doing so, you will not be cast into Hell. You might even get a ticket to Heaven.
Ah. I was watching, curious to see if you'd change your reply. Good job; much more subtle! Reminiscent, even, of the Biblical recording of a conversation in the Garden. I see you have indeed read some of the Scriptures. Very deft job of honing your craft.
Ah, the woman that abhors personal attacks has just compared someone to Satan.
Of course no one should actually get to know any gay people before passing judgement on them... That wouldn't be Christian.
One of these days one of these kinds of posts is actually going to make my eyes roll so far back in my head that I go into a seizure.
You mean...your own posts don't do that? I'm shocked. You had just posted (quite blithely) that you're going to hell, along with a reference about you and your hubby looking for angels to rape?! I wish you hadn't done that, but it's your right to say it I guess. And before you use the excuse that you were just being sarcastic, you should bear in mind that my post can also be justified by using that same reason. I just can't imagine how you'd be upset at ANYTHING after you say such things. But oh well.
See you, too, Brenda! (Modern society might have excused your divorce and remarriage, but I doubt very much JC has...unless the gospels got it wrong, of course)
Sorry, Jason, but you won't see me where you suggest. I hope you don't even see anyone there; I hope you don't even go there. The state of your soul is just as valuable to God as mine is; whether you accept that or not, and repent or not, determines the outcome.
Yep, going to hell for having sex with my husband Brenda (After all, he is my second husband). Hey, you're remarried! Guess I'll see ya there!
But hey, if heaven is full of people who got there by groveling at Jesus's feet without actually caring about their fellow men or doing anything to help anyone but themselves, then I'd prefer to pack shorts.
What do you mean by that? Don't you trust Jesus's decision about who goes to heaven or not? I don't think He's gonna judge anyone else by whether or not you wanna be in heaven with them! LOL
I meant that if heaven is full of self-righteous ass-kissers who don't care about anybody but themselves, I'll take my chances with the hoofed one. I don't care where I end up, but it wont be where you are. I have my own opinions of who is going where
So...you would deliberately miss out on going to heaven because you don't like some people, because you judge them to be a particular way?
I would deliberately rather go to hell then worship a God that believes like you do. My faith doesn't believe as you do. We both can't be right (if either of us is). So yes, if I have to spend my life saying that two people loving each other is an abomination in any way shape or form, then I would rather burn in hell for all eternalness then hate while I am alive. My Jesus didn't teach that and I'm sorry for your soul that yours does.
In short, I'd rather go to hell with a clean conscious and a heart full of love then spend forever on a cloud knowing I got there by hating just because the bible said I should.
Fortunately, it doesn't say that. Bad people have been forcing a lot of hateful garbage into the Bible for centuries based on flimsy interpretation and translation, while ignoring the stuff that gets repeated over and over and over again.
The reality is that Brenda doesn't want a strict reading of the Bible any more than gays or non-Christians would, since her lifestyle is much more clearly a condemnable offense than homosexuality or lack of belief.
Yes, and now they've made it official...
I love this btw...
I have no problem with a strict reading of the Bible. We're all sinners. The only distinction is that some are sinners saved by the grace of God upon repentance. That concept is expounded upon time after time in the Bible. Perhaps you ignore it. Or perhaps Judaism ignores it and tries to go by the ritualistic atonement for sins, as they used to sacrifice animals, etc.? I dunno, because your views don't seem to be like the Judaism in the Bible either. Very confusing.
No, you're talking about pre-rabbinical Judaism. We don't sacrifice animals anymore. And, yes, your views of Judaism are outdated (about 2,000 years old); our religion has continued to evolve unbeknownst to you, I guess.
It evolves? For how many Jews? All Jews? I don't understand.
According to you....a Jew in Israel who practices traditional Judaism...believes like you do?
Almost as much as you dress in long black dresses and hunt down witches? YOUR religion is just an evolution of a much older religion. Most Christians started out as Catholics
Not this one.
Catholicism isn't the oldest Christian religion. The disciples formed the beginning of the "church" of Jesus based on His life, death, and resurrection here on earth. Just because Roman Catholicism took that into a specifically religious tangent doesn't change the fact that the original religion that was formed around belief in Christ wasn't Catholic in the religious sense. The word "catholic", from what I understand in its original meaning, simply meant the group of people who believed in Jesus's resurrection, those who believed then and those who believe now. Not that Catholicism wasn't based on that belief, also, because I think it was! Just that specific people turned that into a rigidly-structured denomination called Catholicism.
Long black dresses and hunting witches?! Why would you say that I personally have done that, or hint at such? Or were you trying to generalize Christians?
Hmm...well, I've worn a black dress before, and I do eat garlic sometimes to ward off colds......but I've never engaged in hunting down witches. But if you think eating garlic will ward off witches too or keep them from hunting ME down, then I may eat more of it! LOL
Wow, that sounds like absolutely nothing I've ever read in any history book. Ok though, if you say your sect was founded first and it helps you sleep at night then have at it. Two thousand years of stagnation explains quite a bit. I suppose the earth is still flat and the sun revolves around the Earth in your world then. Carry on.
I'm talking about the "sect" that Peter and James and John etc. formed, and which Paul continued. Catholicism borrowed Peter's name to use as their "high priest" when in fact Peter simply followed Christ, having no intention to form a specific Catholic Church. By the way, Peter was married, a fact seemingly overlooked by those of the Catholic Church who call him their foundation.
I have no "sect" except for that. And actually...I'm reminded that John the Baptist was possibly the original founder of the denomination I've always been in.
Yes, Jewish law (halakha) does evolve. And, yes, it evolves for all Jews, even those you would call "traditional" (they're not quite as traditional as you would think). And none practice the Judaism of 2,000 years ago.
Damn it, I was so looking forward to being forced into marriage with my brother-in-law when Bruce finally kicked the bucket.
Nobody anywhere in the Bible and no one anywhere on earth that I know of says it's an abomination for two people to love each other.
Drat, wish I didn't have to define that like that, with that distinction. But when people insist on equating all love with lust, it must needs be done. Over and over sometimes. Very boring, but needful apparently.
LOL, so don't ever have sex with your husband again... since you don't have to have a physical relationship to love. That way you won't commit the sin of being remarried.
See, wasn't that easy.
Jason, we can now love whoever we want but we can't be physical with them. It's fair though because the Christians can remarry but never have sex with their new spouse.
Hypocritical conundrum solved!
The relationship you've had for 12 years with your husband, Brenda, is one of lust only.
Your pledge of love through the sacrament of marriage was to your first husband, to whom you're instructed to return if you were to truly abandon your adulterous, lustful lifestyle.
Never mind Melissa according to Brenda's Laws I will be in hell too so we can sit together and write some good hubs.
What do ya say? lol
Hubs my arse! Hendrix is there, Jerry Garcia is there and John Lennon is there! I've heard the hooch is incredible too! I'm organizing a music fest.
Right there with ya I will help set up a comedy fest tooo should be a right laugh
Whilst St Brenda is with the boring lot in Heaven we can be enjoying some good music
Ew Melissa, that comment has made me think of Raegan from the Exorcist.
Eh, me too, now that you mentioned it. ugh.
Didja see the newer movie that's out about exorcism? It's called The Devil Within, I think...
It was actually too corny for my tastes, and done in a choppy documentary way. Nothing like the excitement of the old Exorcist.
LOL, I was actually considering Reagan as a name for the tadpole.
Brenda I cant believe you posted this "So...you would deliberately miss out on going to heaven because you don't like some people, because you judge them to be a particular way?" I mean after the way you treat gay people its a bit like pot calling the kettle
You've missed the whole point entirely. I don't blame other people, especially I don't blame Jesus, for someone going to hell. Why would anyone blame God for their own condemnation? There's a thing called free will that He gave us, so that we can choose Him. Otherwise, we choose the Adversary, either deliberately or by default. Why anyone would deliberately choose the Adversary is beyond me....
I want to respond to this before I talk about Judaism anymore.
I take exception to your statement about how I "treat gays". Nowhere on this site, nor anywhere else, have I or do I "treat gays" badly. I do speak the Biblical truths about sin (even my own sins) and speak the Biblical truths about heaven and hell. Always leading to the truth about the possibility of repentance also. ALL sins are forgiveable (except the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and that one's not easily defined by anyone that I've heard).
I've given witness that I personally have known and do know people who've lived in homosexuality and yet who've repented and do their best to live Godly lives. No one, me nor anyone, not even you! can condemn that. And it would be good if you could see your way to stop judging and condemning people who put the concept of repentance out there. The prophets in the Bible including all the way from Jonah to John the Baptist to JESUS Himself to Paul preached the benefits of repentance before a Holy God. There is NOTHING wrong with people (me or anyone else) speaking of that, of the awesome thing that's provided to us via Jesus's death on the Cross and His resurrection----Grace! The ability to have all our sins forgiven and justification gained upon giving our hearts to the Lord.
My reply to johnnycomelately was in reference to his trying to sway someone else that there is no hell, not in reference to his sexual activity (even if his replies were about that). The Bible says there IS indeed a "hell", a lake of fire for the devil and his angels and for anyone who follows them.
I take exception to your insinuation that I "treat gays" badly. You don't know me, nor do you know the people that I know. You haven't seen me interact with them, nor do you show any inclination of listening to them even if you could hear them (unless, of course, you'd hear the ones who think and accuse like you do, because there are those also); but there have been people on this site, even, who also spoke of hope for repentance and salvation from the grip of homosexuality. Just because you choose not to hear them doesn't mean you can validly accuse me (or them or anyone!) of treating people badly. That would actually be you who's not treating people right, because you assume and insinuate and accuse, when you should be reading people's opinions and posts for the face value (and the contextual intent both touched upon and obvious!) that they're worth.
Brenda, we can only know you by the behavior you describe yourself, or that you display here. And in either case, your treatment of gay people is deplorable. And if the tables were to be turned, you'd easily agree...since you have.
You've launched into tirades about gay people, homosexuality, the "homosexual agenda" time and time again, for years here. Yet, when someone (moi) reminds you that you continue to commit a sin that Jesus considered at least as bad as homosexuality, if not worse, then you accuse people of being "rude" or you don't engage anymore.
You insist, without knowing any gay people's lives or what it feels like to have homosexual feelings yourself, that homosexuality is a choice.
You belittle gay relationships, including mine of 8+ years, saying that they amount to nothing more than lust.
You've told one of your own relatives that she would face hell unless she turned away from homosexuality (even though you yourself haven't turned away from what Christ considers an adulterous relationship).
You've said about people fighting for equal rights for gay people that their real agenda is to "expose young children to perversion".
Sometimes you're in a relatively mild mood (like today) and sometimes it's all fire and brimstone. But your record of self-serving and hypocritical condemnation of gay people is rather long here.
In the bible does it not say "To thine own self be true?" Mellissa is being true to herself by standing against you
Thank you for responding Brenda but with respect I will agree to disagree with your view that homosexuality is a sin
Indeed I have read some of the scriptures Brenda. Since having some experiences in an ashram of Swami Muktananda, back in the early 1980s, I got to see some wonderfully enlightening interpretations of scripture which I had NEVER heard coming from the christian camp. My education has been further enhanced by attending a 10-day Vipassana course. After years of being told and asked to believe some of the most illogical, jingoistic, superstitious nonsense by so-called born again christians, it was like a breath of fresh air.
I have since come to the conclusion that no spiritually enlightened being, such as you claim of Jesus, could ever say "I am God," with the intention that every mortal human being should bow down to and worship him/her.
You and I, Jesus, every living thing, plus every non-living object in this universe, are equal and united, and born of the divine consciousness. This is way and above the narrow, doctrinal stuff you attribute to the bible and scripture. I invite you to open up your horizon inside and outside of yourself.
Help me and join with me learning something new and revealing. Every day, every minute of the day. You don't need (on the contrary, you are better off without) human constructs like the bible to do this. Just open up your eyes and your heart.
Yes you are. When your mature, you'll understand yourself. Dont stress yourself about accepting it or not. Just let it be. GO with the flow. Because baby...you are born that way. muah.
I tend to agree with everyone here that says you should experiment with both sexes to see which one you like the best, or you can be a bisexual and have the best of both worlds. No matter what anyone tells you about this situation, you're the only one that's going to have to live with yourself. So in the end, you just have to do whatever is going to work for yourself, and not worry about what everyone else thinks. They're not you, so their opinion shouldn't matter. Just yours should.
be bi you get 2 in 1 and no confusion! actually 3 - be proud!
I agree with everyone else that you should stop putting a label on it, dear. I, personally am very straight, usually... But, don't think about it too much. Just live your life. Find out who you are, and I'm sure the answer will come to you.
It's a confusing mixture of choices, isn't it?
On the one hand we have a call for freedom: do "it" when you want to, because it's good for you. It's good exercise, healthy, it relieves stress, etc.
On the other hand, we know that Sex, i.e., the hunt, the chase, the expectation, the hormones, the act itself, is one of the most powerful stimulii in our lives - hunger, thirst, survival being some of the other powerful ones.
Sex, which is linked to our genetic drive for survival of the species, is biological. We do not have to apologise for it. It's inherent, and if we try to deny it's existence that usually drives us into all manner of dilemmas, with associated substitutes giving rise to some anti-social behaviours.
So, in our need for a "civilised" code of behaviour, there needs to be some careful management of our desires if we are to live sustainably and cooperatively. This applies regardless of sexual orientation and focus.
Whether one is hetero- or homosexual, there is still a need for responsibility. There is always another person to be taken into account.... what he or she is feeling; what are his or her needs? How does MY action or attitude reduce or enhance that other person's life? If I were to force my desires on a person who had strong religious beliefs, contrary to mine, that would be totally immoral. Please remember also that the reverse is true.
Live and let live, responsibly, caringly.
It's really, really difficult to accept something when there is a lot of resistance to it by the majority of people. You might also have heard negative things spoken about gays and you don't want to be thought of that way.
So, here's the thing.
Nobody is their right mind is going to try and have gay feelings when they know how many difficulties it can cause in life - especially when one is young.
If you're attracted to your own gender, you probably are gay.
If you're attracted to men and women, you're probably bisexual.
If you're attracted to the opposite gender, you're heterosexual.
And if anyone wants to convince you that you're a sinner and it's a choice, go out and buy the latest national geographic on twins and just how much we're genetic products. Nature wins. Nurture loses.
Why do you feel you are Gay? Is it because you like things that you are told 'men' don't like or don't like what men do? I can think of a woman (she's in her 50s now) who was certain she was a lesbian and has lived as a lesbian and is not happy but doesn't know anything else.
She's been under psychological assessment for decades and just recently she's realised that she isn't sexually attracted to women, she wants security of friendship and has always been untrusting of men due to early experiences.
It is too late for her, and she now is like; well, if I wasn't encouraged when I was 19 to see myself as...
So figure out whether you're admiring a man or feeling sexual about him.
Cause there's a difference.
I can't imagine how it's "too late for her"... It's never too late! But, being in your 50's doesn't mean your life is over. Heck, I'm rapidly approaching my fifth decade. In some ways I feel like my life is just beginning as the "real me".
Her 'whole life' from her twenties has been as a lesbian. All her friends are lesbians, all her outlets are lesbian. She has no men friends, and there's a wedge behind her and straight people. She packaged herself as a lesbian if she 'butched down' people wouldn't recognise her.
I definitely agree it would be hard, but it CAN be done. I suppose it's a choice of picking the lesser of two evils: living somewhat of an unauthentic life with the accompanying emotions/self-identity/self-actualization difficulties VERSUS recreating your identity in midlife with all the accompanying social and emotional repercussions. Not an easy choice! I feel for her, can't imagine what choice I might make in her shoes.
Just came in on the thread....
It is a delicate subject, even more delicate whenever we think we aught to "help a person change...." Maybe that person, with a strong same-sex leaning, to the point where all her friends are lesbian, does not need anyone around her telling her what she "should" be.
It has been said here, and many other places, many times, that one's sexual preference/orientation is not something you choose, like picking a particular apple off a tree. For most of us anyway.
Just as an example of how difficult it would be to change, IF one wanted to try it, wordscribe43, you mention in your Profile how "..Math and I are incompatible." Can you imagine anyone tell you that you MUST become proficient at maths? Probably (correct me if I a wrong) your whole being is not attuned to mathematics. It's not the way your mind works, right? Anyway, there are plenty of others in the world who can fill the gap in maths ability, so you can turn yourself to things you ARE good at.
Similarly, we gay/lesbian whatever you want to call us have our skills and our personalities which we can offer in society. We have lots to contribute to the world, "JUST AS WE ARE, WITHOUT ONE PLEA." We can even support heterosexual people in the nurturing of their children. So I like to promote our positives, and the way we can live/play/learn together.
Could not be stated more eloquently! My statement was in response to an earlier post by W.D. Curry above who was quoting a CSN song with "let your freak fly". I found it offensive... If I were gay, I would be offended. I know my gay friends would find it offensive, too.
The issue I was referring to above was a lady who has lived her whole life gay, but doesn't think she really is. Not the other way around... Here was the post: " I can think of a woman (she's in her 50s now) who was certain she was a lesbian and has lived as a lesbian and is not happy but doesn't know anything else.
She's been under psychological assessment for decades and just recently she's realised that she isn't sexually attracted to women, she wants security of friendship and has always been untrusting of men due to early experiences.
It is too late for her, and she now is like; well, if I wasn't encouraged when I was 19 to see myself as...
So figure out whether you're admiring a man or feeling sexual about him.
Cause there's a difference."
Jonny, you and I are on the same page... Make no mistake about it!
Many people are afraid to break out of the 'rut'. We can say; 'don't get into one', don't get so 'comfortable' in...(fill in blank) that you can't leave.
Can I make a suggestion here? Don't watch porn. It'll mess with your head and you'll end up thinking you're in love with Ron Jeremy! Trust me!
Maybe you are going through that phase where we all reach the point of sexual identity. When you figure out who you are as a sexual being everything will become much clearer. I think you need to keep your relationships simple until you get through this because when all is said and done and your phase has passed, you don't wan to end up with regrets or psychological problems.
Don't try and figure out anything on your own, let everything run it's own course. Just relax and enjoy life and you will be surprised how much you will learn about yourself. Whether or not you are gay isn't the point. Being the best person you can be is what matters. Love yourself no matter which gender you prefer.
Listen to what IzzyM has to say, Rabgix. You won't find a better answer.
Be yourself and don't put labels on how you feel. If you will be with a guy, then so be it. If you feel like being with a girl, do it. Just be yourself and you'll be alright.
I think you make it complicated when you keep wanting to know answers that only come naturally to you..
Maria that was absolutely beautifully written. I really want to take that into my life as well. I have been struggling with my family and so hubpages has been a great outlet for me since not all of my family supports me "coming out of the closet". I have to laugh because I go in and out of my "closet" all the time. I open up when I need to and then just let it go and laugh. That's why I love Ellen Degenerous so much because she helps me laugh when things get really hard.
It took me years to realize that it is not my job to make people happy that requires changing my personality. It is also not your responsibility how others feel. So you are right on track when you divert or find ways to go to your happy place. Ignore them if you have to. You know who you are and that is all that matters.
we have this problem of making others happy. And when it defies our wellbeing, we feel guilty or sad that they are not pleased.
Be your self.. and love will abound - the love that is within you, the love your feel for your self.
Do what makes you happy. Girls make me crazy, way too much for me to be gay.
My best friend is a gay guy. He 'tried' to be straight, in a bid to hide his true feelings about other men. He even went as far as asking a girl to marry him, but that's as far as it went.
He's now comfortable with his sexuality, though doesn't announce it to everyone he meets as some of his friends do.
Don't force yourself to be one thing or another, give it some time and you will find out who you really are.
Maybe you're bisexual. It's best not to bother labeling yourself if you're really not sure though. Just be proud of who you are and go where your heart takes you.
I'm not Gay, but I am close with a few people who are gay. They all own up to who they are and seem to have no regreats.
I think you will figure out what makes you happy, and you don't have to limit or label yourself. I know many young people (early 20's) who are so disillusioned by their parents and friend's separations and divorces that they say they feel Asexual. They don't want to get involved or close to anyone, because it hurts too much to be in a love you think will last, and see it go down the tubes. Many are becoming ministers and live almost monk like lifes. They are all A students in college, and friendly, there doesn't seem anything wrong with them. They are outgoing, busy, but don't want to bother with sex or relationships. Is anyone else seeing stuff like this or feeling this way?
i think we get too caught up in labels, and pigeonholing ourselves to make other's comfortable. maybe you just should be [insert your name here] for a while and get comfortable with that.
i think we all go through some sort of emotional turbulence in our lives and it definately makes us stronger. you'll get through whatever it is your going through and you'll be better for it.
~labels are for soup cans~
Sexuality is a broad continuum. It's totally fine to allow yourself free reign into both sides of the spectrum to feel what feels authentic for you.
But being only 19 you're still figuring out who you are and what makes you happy (actually, that may be a lifelong process ).
I worry that you use the words "admit it" about being gay.
Admit has guilt and judgment attached. It's your life and your body and your love to give freely to a person of either gender.
As stated above, it's no one else's business.
How about saying, "I accept and feel secure in and revel in being gay" instead?
I'm sorry that this ambiguity is a problem for you - but in the end you should realize that it doesn't matter, and that you are you, and that nobody else can ever be you.
You're special - you have something that no one else has, and you know things that no one else can know.
You're life is ...like a gift, use it wisely.
"Deep down, I think I know i'm gay"
Do you really want the answer?
What do you imagine about when you masturbate?
So, shut-up and get lost. Sorry.
I imagined an iced mocha latte last time... Oh God, what the hell does that make me? I was already bi... Am I tri now?
that makes you my kind of person! I used to dream about hot fudge sundaes during! no lie!
Melissa, isn't Tri-sexual where you are game to tri anything once?
The more you question it the more stressed out you will get, that is all it comes down to. You are a person and you can make all of your own choices. If you like dudes go find a gay one and try it out. If you don't like it, who cares live and learn, go back to the women.
Man was having sex with man(although it usually makes me and many other men cringe at the thought of it) has been a fact since the beginning of our species. It is called curiosity, or maybe even an accident from not knowing(whoops!). There is no way a God would care where you put your thing, as long as you are responsible with it. I however, whether it be through me being taught not to be gay through friends, media, and everything else I am exposed to.. have no interest in men. I do however CARE LESS if you are gay or not. But if I point out you are gay don't be mad people like to have gaydars.
Like Butthead said from Beavis and Butthead:
I say if it feels good, do it.
According to media reports, God created gay penguins and gay bears. Thus, God loves gays.
I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body, so if you're free some Saturday night...
paradigm, I'm curious--what was it that you gained, or hoped to gain, by making such a rude suggestive remark?
There was nothing RUDE about his remark. It's actually quite funny. Especially, being a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
May I say whenever I sift through the forums you are the one that makes me laugh out loud. "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body, so if your free some "....Thank you Thank you for that.
Cagsil = same goes to you as well...
Brenda my dear if you can't take the heat go find a god friendly forum that won't offend you so much, this is a conversation about sexuality, if you know yours then spread the word where it does not preach against a person trying to "figure" it all out. Okay? Unless you and god sat face to face and he told you from his lips to your ears get off the high horse sister. My God accepts all types, even paradigmsearch and Cagsil.....
I personally feel it is immoral to push your beliefs on another person.
I'm not going to change a person's mind on this if it's already made up.
It's great to have your own opinion. Seriously. But NOTHING pisses me off more than people who make other people feel bad about themselves.
If the kid turns out to be gay, great, he should be allowed to be who he is without people making him feel like a piece of sh*t. If he's straight, the same.
I'm straight and none of my gay friends tell me I need to work on being gay. Then again, why would they? THEY'RE the ones in the wrong, aren't they? [sarcasm]
so, coming out in the Hubpages forums! hmmmmm. . . if I needed to come out, which is not to say that is a bad thing, or anything - I would definitely choose to do it here in the HP forums and then link to facebook and sit back and wait for the party invites, bonuses, and snide remarks from my born-again relatives. BUT since I don't need to come out, (and you can interpret that however you want) I'll just continue on irritating people here. The way I do!
I would first like to address previous posters who have apparently forgotten the purpose of forum posts. It is here to promote community and serious conversation. It is unfortunate that some users have decided to use this forum as means of propagating their own agenda (at the cost of others) or for casting personal attacks. Let's take advantage of the forum for what it is - a place for polite debate and/or substantial conversation. With that in mind, I would actually like to contribute to the forum.
Rabgix, I personally believe that we are our own authority. We ourselves choose what to and what not to believe in, what dreams to follow, whether or not to follow an instinct or emotion. This includes whether or not to accept who we truly are. Be straight, be bisexual, be gay, be limitless. It is not up to any of us. You - your mind, heart, soul, body - are your own authority. It is up to you to choose whether or not to listen.
Bottom Line ; If you gotta ask us if you're gay .......you have other more intense problems.
Rabgix, I have only just come in on this Hub, so forgive me if anything I say here has been said before. Hopefully this will not come over to you as advice, because probably that is not what you are searching for.
First, I like the practice of using the word "gay" as an adjective, not as a noun or a label. As a label it tells others virtually nothing about "me," but has a tendency to bring up and reinforce stigma and prejudices.
Secondly I have found a very useful thing to do is become friendly with a family who I can "come out to." Once they have accepted me, it opens the way for humour, gently ribbing, showing I fancy some good looking guy I see on TV whilst sitting in their lounge room, and allowing me to be really who I am, honestly. I guess the family learns a lot of useful stuff from me, too.
Thirdly, I believe there is a male-ness in most if not all of us men, whether we are homo- or heterosexually orientated. So it has been a great help to join a Men's Group where most of them are not gay, but I am. I came out to them; they mostly accepted me, but one or two found it difficult. The latter gradually have come around to understanding me, learning something about guys who are gay, and dispelling some of their preconceptions about gay people. They don't try to change me to being straight, I don't try to entrap them. There is great mutual respect and it has helped my self confidence in my masculinity a great deal. And it's reaffirmed my self as being gay.
I hope this might give you a few ideas with which to move forward in your life. Wishing you well and I hope the others in this thread have helped you too.
Wait... a couple questions...
1. Lesbianism is cool then, since sodomy isn't a big part of it? (unless I missed ANOTHER memo)
2. What about those married couples that engage in sodomy? Are they going to hell?
If so, it would seem that lesbians have a better chance of getting into heaven. You really wouldn't think that God would be so concerned with rectums. I would think maybe those starving and sick children might demand a little more of his attention.
Well, if they're just raping an angel, that's probably OK. But wait...you meant the 17th century definition of sodomy, right?
Every response possible to that violates forum rules. I will say that finding angels is damn difficult these days though, so hubby and I just have to make do.
(Yep, going to hell)
Just for the record, we Greeks perfected sodomy (and made it into a spectator sport)
Hey... Don't take Anything away from Turkey or Byron mate!
I've seen your films. Damn good acting that was.
It really doesn't matter what gender you're attracted to. Just go with your heart.
@Brenda, Know I haven't I'm afraid the original Exorcist was enough for me. I had to sleep with the lights on for months after. I think Melissa's too cute to be like Raegan though and she honestly doesn't strike me as the type to want to make that much mess in her bedroom.
Exactly, and you always strike me as a very tidy person.
I've given up tidy, I'm focusing on hygienic. When the kiddies are grown I'll go back to tidy.
@ Melissa, Raegan is a pretty cool name really. How do you know you're having another girl?
I don't. WAY too early for that. But it was one of the names we were throwing around for a girl. Eden, Olivia, and Morgan are in there too.
They're lovely names. My daughter's name is Hollie (mine is Lisa) She was going to be an Olivia except hubby wanted the name Hollie, more. Evie is also a really nice name too. They're classy names. Clearly this little girl (if a girl) has breeding!
Well, I'm running out of boys names. I've got a Kyle Jefferson, a Damion Alexander and a Kaine D'Angelo. Lily is actually a Lilith Kai (middle name after Kaine).
Roman, Seth, or Sebastian is kinda what we are looking at... although Braxton is being thrown about as well.
I almost got called Finley - love that name for a boy but my mam called me Callum
My best friend is called Lilannie as in the hawaiian little annie i think thats lovely too xx
I got shot down on anything "Finn" like. I love Finnegan, but the husband just shot me evil looks when I suggested it.
They sound like nice names too. Roman makes me think of Roman from Rosemary's Baby and Roman Polanski. Sorry! I have a Thomas. It is so difficult to come up with boy's names I think. Sebastian is a cool name, so are all the others though (except Roman) Finnegan is a cool name, I agree.
End of thread hijack... but my mother said if it's a boy we should name him Troy and if it's a girl then we should name her Helen. I asked why and she said "Because someone in that house needs to be reminded that Trojans exist".
At the end of the day Gay or straight it all comes down to one thing really love! even some of the Animals in our world have been known to swing the other way, but I guess the poor little Animals will either go to hell or the likes of the religious fanatics don't care about the Animals because they don't talk, unless you take into account a Gay Parrot that could repeat speech from people.....then it's simply not right and that Parrot will be condemned....
Anyway religion shouldn't really come into people trying to live their lives as it just bores the hell out of me that certain religious loons can take a topic and just pepper it with God speak! Get a life or keep it to yourself ya bunch of nutters!
Yes, I agree. I took the photo of these three guys when they were on a night out on Canal Street. They said the new look Rembrandts was fabulous.
Well....there ya go Brenda! Proof that Jesus liked to dance in his nappie to YMCA! lol!
"Freak" flag... wow, that's not nice at all. What would compel you to say such a thing?
I see you are young. Those are the lyrics to an old Crosby Stills and Nash song about rebellion against the establishment. I see the meaning got lost in the self-righteous, judgmental, politically correct, fake ass rhetoric that is clogging your drains today.
Heck, I suppose I take this all as a compliment, then. If being open-minded, accepting, understanding about the plight of gay people, educated about homosexuality itself and sensitive to their very real issues is "self-righteous, judgmental, politically correct, and engaging in 'fake ass rhetoric'" then I'm all of the above. Count me IN!
Thank God I never had this problem. Does it really require advice from others? So this is how it happens you wake up one day and you go darn, I think I want to go kiss another girl with lip stick or rub beards with another dude.
I have a confession. This has stirred up some deep issues. I had almost forgotten about my first sexual experience. I was fourteen. My Mom brought home a "weight reduction machine". It had a strap designed to fit under the gluteus maximus muscles. The strap was connected by each end to a powerful motor that pulled the strap back and forth with incredible speed and power. On high, you could not be understood easily when you talked. The vibrations modulated your voice in an unworldly vibrato.
One day I was running the machine, and changing positions in experimentation. All of a sudden, I could not move. I was frozen with the most intense sensation that I had ever experienced. It was actually frightening. It took me several minutes to recover, sort of. It took me several days and several more experienes with the weight reduction machine to come to grips with the situation. Something was different. I was becoming a man. Tell me? Am I a machine-a-sexual? Or, am I straight?
You have Mechaphilia. It's actually illegal in many places and can get you placed on a sexual offenders list if you are caught... you know like by admitting it on an open internet forum.
How weird. I have no idea what is being discussed. Mechaphilia? I must have led a very sheltered life.
In response to WD Kurante's story of his relationship with an exercise machine. Mechaphilia is a type of paraphilic disorder (deviant sexual disorder). I have an interest in abnormal psych... although I did have to look up the specific name for his... *coughs* interests. (I knew it was a paraphilia, just not the prefix)
Oh no! What have I done? I should have kept "Lucy" in the closet!
I hope they don't find out about climbing the the rope in gym class.
Climbing the ropes in Gym class, at about the age of 14, was when I got my first "orgasm in the loins." Never told anyone this before, because at the time it was soooo weird, and frightening, and exciting, and enjoyable at the same time. I had no one as a friend whom I could share it with. So anyone who is a teenager and HAS someone they can talk to about it, you are fortunate indeed!
Your secret is safe with me, but almost everyone knows about the rope climb. How else could you motivate a bunch of scrawny kids to develop their muscles enough to reach the top.
Oh Wow! WD. And all this time I have been under the illusion....... you learn something new every day don't you? Thanks for enlightening me. There's hopes in the ropes yet.
I wonder if we can return to the original Hub? Is there anything more to say on it? The "deep down" bit is very important. Some of us find it difficult even to know what is really "deep down." Various factors such as cultural tendencies to shrug off, or not face, deeper and emotional feelings, can build a habit of denial.
I grew up in the English culture. During and post-2nd World War. Kissing Dad stopped pretty early. "Not what big boys do." A big hug for Dad did not come until much later in life, after I had done quite a lot of men's group work. I had shed a lot of tears as a boy, but the emotional source of those tears was never addressed.
There were lots of constraints on expressing how one actually felt, so there was no practice at it. (Would you expect anyone to excell at sports, or drama, or mathematics, without practice?)
So - whether any one of us feels "I might be gay," or "I suppose I am straight," there should be some educational facility for us to learn and practice communication. Body language. Social cues. Acceptable responses. False interpretations. All these could come into such a course. Would it be of assistance to anyone's choice in "coming out?"
Mechaphilia! first I've heard of it - so the thumping clothes washing machine would qualify? oh my!
surprising how many people are confused somewhat about their preference...or if they even have one. Don't stress over trying to give yourself a label just enjoy and experiment some.
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