Morals are dictated by religions, without using scripture, how would an atheist

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  1. abdussalaam profile image82
    abdussalaamposted 3 years ago

    Morals are dictated by religions, without using scripture, how would an atheist discourage incest?

    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/12636039_f260.jpg

  2. jonnycomelately profile image83
    jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago

    Can what is regarded as moral to followers of one particular religion appear as immoral to followers of another religion?

    I do not claim to be "an atheist," although I don't accept the existence of a supernatural god that watches over us.  Therefore I have no religion.  But for me, incest, rape, ill-treatment of women in any way is immoral.  I see any of those offenses as disrespectful, even sometimes cruel, against women, or any person regardless of gender or age.

    Why do I see it as immoral?   First my genuine concern for the other person's welfare.  "Do unto others as you would be done by."   I would not like it.  Why should I accept anything like it done to my sister or my brother?

    Secondly, it does not help to build a supporting community structure.  If no one in the community can walk around or sleep in their bed at night feeling safety within the community, then the community will break up.  It needs the support of everyone in the community to build up that trust and safety.

    I hope this helps you to understand that we all have a part to play, each and every one of us.   And it does not depend on any particular religious acceptance, in my honest opinion.

    1. Doug Cutler profile image75
      Doug Cutlerposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The Jehovah Witnesses considers what a lot of the other religions allow as immoral. The Muslims are worse yet. They kill their daughters for just being with the wrong guy. While they rape children that are not Muslim or not Muslim enough.

    2. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I feel as though your opinion has been somewhat influenced by religion. But, a very interesting insight nonetheless.

    3. manatita44 profile image82
      manatita44posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Nice Brother Alan.

      I just noticed your answer as well. Quite commendable and noble, and a worthy Best Answer. Much Love.

    4. hakemzrman profile image69
      hakemzrmanposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Do unto others as you would be done by."

      But what if an Atheist be happy if something like this be done with his sister or mother or himself/herself or whatever? Then this is not universal answer to this problem, and it solves just your problem.

    5. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      If the "world" would do this Believers or not, what a different world this would be! No stealing, no murders, no lying, no rape/incest, no selling of drugs, no manipulation, NOTHING but LOVE which is GOD!

    6. A Thousand Words profile image78
      A Thousand Wordsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan, I agree with you all the way! @ Hakemzrman, Even supposed universal truths are not always practiced by followers of a religion, but an atheist's morality is not SUPPOSED to be the same for all atheists/non religious. Non belief isn't a religion

    7. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree Words,  it does qualify as a religion, or at least a belief system. If you don't believe in a God then you, along with others, believe existence is possible as it exists as an unintended result of causation. That in itself is a belief.

    8. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Disappearinghead posted 2 years ago:
      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/111603
      Two religious fanatics have taken over the threads of this hub and continue to destroy good discussion. IMHO

    9. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Why are some complacent & fail to adapt to "change?" Life is a "Growing" process but NONE want to "Grow?" If it "rocks your world," "delete it?"  No matter, "truth" will win!  Better get ready for the "Spiritual" world, it's coming!

  3. Say Yes To Life profile image80
    Say Yes To Lifeposted 3 years ago

    The Laws of Cause and Effect apply to everyone, regardless of their religion.  Nations that don't tolerate rape and incest are far healthier and more advanced than those that do.  All religions were established as an attempt to establish morals.  Some people use it to warp it to their purpose, making excuses or sweeping their atrocities under the rug.  That does not change the end result.  Any religion that tolerates it will ultimately be exposed, and fail.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I mostly agree with your sentiment, apart from "....nations that don't tolerate rape & incest are far healthier and more advanced..." In the Netherlands incest is legal, yet, the nation is prosperous.

    2. Say Yes To Life profile image80
      Say Yes To Lifeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      How long will it remain prosperous if most people wind up inbred?

    3. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I do disagree alittle, because incest is legal in the united place (depending on state) but it only extends as far as 1st cousins, no brother and sisters or stuff. Other countries do have it legal, the only thing is it doesnt happen very often.

    4. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      First I just notice you posting to me and and posting negative feed back , I do not know you. Again what are you warning me About
      ? sounds like threats on nothing.

    5. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abduls, in the Netherlands incest is not legal, where did you hear this fairytale ? It is a crime and judged as such.

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Also Jonny you would not run into a building of fire , but the greatest life saving thing you could do is communication to call for help.You can not assume that being quiet will save a life, just because someone says be quiet, there is nothing to do

    7. fpherj48 profile image76
      fpherj48posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It is 100% FALSE that incest is LEGAL in the Netherlands!!   What is WRONG with you, stating such a blatant lie!  Those from the Netherlands will take GREAT offense at your ignorance of their Country!

    8. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Paula incest till the age of 18 is iligal in Holland.  I just read the Dutch law rules. I'm Dutch, Above 18 it's only Punishable if it is a case of force, like a normal case. Incest is not seen as normal in Holland and socially rejected.

  4. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
    HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years ago

    Simple, genetics. The purpose of sex is for procreation and procreation amongst people who are too closely related leads to bad genetic outcomes.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      True; but is genetics a good enough reason to shun incest? Or is genetics your attempt at moral justification at shunning incest?

    2. Say Yes To Life profile image80
      Say Yes To Lifeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it is! If you ever dealt with handicapped people, you'll know why!

    3. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I think it's a good enough reason. Atheist or not the risk of disfigurement to any potential offspring isn't right, morally or otherwise. When you know the risk and the high likelihood of genetic issues then it's your responsibility.

    4. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Genetics is your reason, and not vulgar? Knowledge of genetics is recent, and had such knowledge of genetics not come to light I assume you would have no qualm with incest? Foremost Atheists struggle with such morals.

      http://youtu.be/0A-whKKYaK8

    5. Oztinato profile image50
      Oztinatoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Anthropologists have proved that incest in animals causes better specimens. There's one catch: they kill off the ones who don't turn out good. People once did this too but many atheists want a return to infanticide now. We need compassionate religion

    6. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it is a good reason!!!!! Are you kidding me, I feel awful for any genetic defects caused by incest in their kids.

    7. thegecko profile image77
      thegeckoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      This is the same reason I would propose smile

    8. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The problem peeples as examples we are not born or equipped with the morals, like language you have to learn
      From examples like your family and teacher's , why you have education up to certain grades  .because you can not learn
      Solo.

    9. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Scripture says Rm 2:14;16 "..we do laws contained "by nature.." so morals are "innate" but "man" estab & not of GOD! Rt morals according to The Gospel of Jesus Christ (v16)! W/O: Ex of "norm" confirms morals!

      Abdus made me study!  Great question

    10. lorenfawnhubs profile image74
      lorenfawnhubsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I'm sorry but Purpose of sex is not always procreation. especially in case of Incest.

    11. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Lo: Incest is not sex as GOD intended but "immoral!" GOD has told us in Lev 18:6 "Don't lie w/"next of kin!" Read ALL! 

      Oh, look what I found re: homosexuals!  Lev 20:13! V 17 stepsis/bros!

    12. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, go and personally observe EVERY law that you read in Leviticus.  Only cherry-picking on one verse, out of context, misunderstood, shows you to be very biased.

    13. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T, You say we must learn right from wrong. I was taught to steal, rape, beat, abuse elderly, break into homes, yet I do none of that, and while I was being taught naturally knew it was wrong. It's built in, not learned.

    14. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus, there was a compelling reason not to commit incest before genetics was well-known: instincts. The people you grow up with from infancy to adolescence will (usually) be filed away in the brain's "DO NOT PORK" folder. Works most of the time.

    15. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly as peeples said. It "feels" wrong, even if it's taught at an early age. We have a natural sense. It's thought that this is because of a sense of empathy that evolved, which increased survival for those who had it. Evolved? Probably. Random?No

    16. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jpark therefore the scriptures have no value to you or to your interest.  That is like
      You saying you take medicine and you are not sick, but you are neither a doctor or the patient who can say either. The subject has no value to you.

    17. RachaelLefler profile image94
      RachaelLeflerposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah but then to play devil's advocate, the question is then is it ok for unrelated children raised in the same house, like adopted siblings with different biological parents or step-siblings, to date each other? Also, then what about gay incest?

    18. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Rach It depends on 1's ethics, morals, values! Some states recognze "common law" marriage! U introduced as bro/sis all life then marry? To me, unacceptable! Bibles says NO "next of kin!" I say introduced as such, you are! Again,depends on 1's morals

    19. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And better HP has the last word,  so people that cause trouble based on the freedom of religion are violating ones freedom to speak,  so I know my rights and I keep talking as they have free speech as well. You people who are threatening watch.

  5. profile image69
    jmark13posted 3 years ago

    The other thing here is that by posing this question you're attempting to validate the need for scripture against atheism, suggesting that atheism has no morals without scripture. The interpretation of scripture is the red-herring here, because anyone can, has and does interpret scripture their way in order to go to the extreme. This is where Alan's example of what holds a community together is tested because a manipulator can hold a community together with their interpretation of scripture. To say that a higher power has granted that person the authorization to enforce their interpretation of this, making others submit to incest, rape, poverty and overall indoctrination. So by even posing this question is to try force the vulnerable to submit by using failed logic, would be criminal for taking advantage of the ignorant.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting perspective. Thank you.

    2. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Peeples if you thought it was about survival
      You would not be hurt or appauld, over the experience and you even named the fact of him being a pastor of this shameless conduct.
      The point is the truth was not in him, nore God the Father.

    3. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Since Christopher Hitchen is no longer around to tell you this, I'll do it for him @KissAndTales, your babbling now. Everything you're saying is nonsense. Pure rubbish.

    4. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss and Tales, you are constantly posting under the wrong persons answer. Do you know how to use the features on Q&A? I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the proper procedure...or everything is going to sound like drivel. Thanks

    5. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well Sayyes my device limits where I can post replies ,I have to use comment space that is available,  but I am trying to post direct by addressing the name first. I believe people are posting to me correctly because they are responding to me by sub

    6. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss I never said liking or approving of incest was about survival. I said NOT committing certain acts was about survival.

    7. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @KissAndTales, I've just filed a report against you. We'll get the HubPages team to have the final say on this.

    8. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And to park you did not read my comment correct on slavery , I said it had a different meaning long ago in the bible,  not what people turned it into.it was trading services for a debt. When debt was paid the contract had ended the person left.

    9. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly the same as the verses I mentioned - they had a different meaning then, a historical context if you will. Yet are always taken out. U can't insist background is important in a topic that makes Christians look bad, and not in others.

    10. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jpark my proof is not your proof and no matter what you say that is not my conviction or experience. Yours is based on your own conclusions you are in titled to.
      Next if you do not believe in God then you do not believe he has an Authority for you .

    11. fpherj48 profile image76
      fpherj48posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jon Mark.....Exactly!  Babbling rubbish.  Repeating the same BULL over & over.  Quoting an ancient History Book with ZERO independent thought or any degree of intelligence.  Mimicry is for the ignorant. We can ALL copy words. They're to be pitied

    12. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And in the end @fpherj48, it's those who are indoctrinated who are forcing us to submit to their lies. Fight them in your communities, fight them in the streets, bring down their leaders and distribution centers, NOW!

    13. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JonMark: U remind me of Paul on the way to Damascus!  WOW!  What a vessel u would be if in Christ!

      Ur the kind Jesus told us to "Shake the dust off ur feet!"  He will deal w/u as He did Paul!

  6. FatFreddysCat profile image98
    FatFreddysCatposted 3 years ago

    Hopefully an atheist would discourage incest the same way anybody else would -- by saying "Dude, don't @#$% your sister/cousin/brother/etc... That's just gross."

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I too hope atheists would discourage incest the same way those that follow a religion do. In all fairness most people regardless of their religious or non-religious beliefs do discourage incest. But, atheists struggle to justify why incest is wrong.

    2. Austinstar profile image85
      Austinstarposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, Abdus, atheists do NOT struggle to justify the "wrongness" of incest. We state quite easily that incest is wrong for several valid reasons - none of which are religious.

    3. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Austinstar In Atheism, Prof. Richard Dawkins and Prof. Lawrence Krauss are equivalent to what the godly would call Saints and Prophets. Krauss struggles to justify why incest is wrong.

      http://youtu.be/0A-whKKYaK8

    4. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus will you please stop grouping people together under the title Atheist.  It's false.  Also insulting to be labelled like that.  Are you trying to ridicule?

    5. junkseller profile image84
      junksellerposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Struggling to justify why something is wrong IS morality.

      NOT struggling to justify why something is wrong is obedience.

    6. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @junkseller

      Struggling to justify why something is wrong, is because it's wrong.

      Not struggling to justify why something is wrong, is because it's wrong.

    7. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Sayyes I decided to dedicate A hub to you
      Based on your interesting question, I can not explain your question in 250 word count
      but I must cover some very important point
      I will post to you tonight or in the morning
      Thanks again. KT.

    8. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus:  Do  you believe incest is right?

      It seems your religion (in comparison to ours) operates under "the law" of Allah whereas we NOW operate under the NEW COVENANT of GRACE & TRUTH - JESUS!  Is my assumption correct?

    9. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine you have not read all Abdus posted statements , he hopes too atheist would discourage incest. But his point of questions is to get opinions on the subject through an atheist
      View.
      Because they are not guided by law and scrolls as others can

    10. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      We have to follow laws too, just because we have no god doesnt mean we are all degenerates, that my friend is simply dissengenious.

    11. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      All this presumption that because you believe in a god you are better than others.
      We hear it from both of the major religions.  When you get to the point that you can state your beliefs and leave it at that, without further judgement, then...bingo!

    12. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well Johnny I agree with you on some points, but I must admit example is the best teacher , I have yet to meet a very nice , un angry, polite atheist who does not attack another for there beliefs, I have had that experience more , where is the love?

    13. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T I have not attacked anyone for their belief, only for their presumption that their believe needs to be imparted to and held by others
      However, questioning a belief for its efficacy surely is not attacking it?  Is it reasonable?  If so, I resp

    14. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Have i not been for the most part polite to you guys?

    15. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It is just I here more criticism then and sarcastic replies from none believers,  can we all get along , your thoughts count to .

    16. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: I understand the question, but reaffirming Abdus' statement "Morals are dictated by religion..." using Scripture!  Studied Scripture & found Rm 2:14-16 "innate" but w/o belief in GOD ea estab own & why diff but GOD is only RT!

    17. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      If your holy book gave laws about how to keep slaves, your holy book is disqualified as a source for developing a moral code.
      ~Robert Green Ingersoll

    18. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Slavery was part of the world humans/free will created. God simply worked within that. In that age you were either the one in power, or enslaved by the one in power. Not much of an option when you have thousands of people to feed. Wasn't a bad option

    19. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, whew!. For a minute I thought there was an all powerful God allowing such injustice. Now I see that, conversely, we are talking about a God who is powerless against free will(Kryptonite)and He just falls right in line with evil human constructs

    20. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      He's not powerless. If He overrode free will it would no longer be free will. Free will means we get to live our own lives and God respects that.

    21. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      He overides free will in the bible....literally all the time.

    22. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Correct, John. But the rigidly indoctrinated mind can assuage cognitive dissonance by simply automatically accepting the illogical premise that: A thing can be (A) and (not A) at the same time..willing themselves to believe it til their last breath

    23. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It is that stubborness and backward thinking that brings me to want to see the end of religion. It would be one thing if a intelligent conversation and respectable discord took place, but sadly it is on the contrary, and that leads to agressive acts

    24. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The Borg is the same as the religious mind...a collective, programmed with a directive to believe in what authority has directed. It doesn't matter what logic proposes, they will assimilate. There was no god, until authority DIRECTED us to believe.

    25. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The antithesis of progress is born in the minds of the collective. If you blindly follow without research and refuse to be openminded, youre stilting and insulting your own intelligence Glinging to something despite research contrary stints humanity

    26. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      John,
      In those instances it's for a bigger reason. The whole point to the whole story is making free will possible. Yes He overrode here and there, but for the most part He let humans do what they do.

    27. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Okay what was the reason with the pharaoh in egypt. Like what was the point of that, to show gods wrath?
      Im sorry but i have seen no real bigger reason, its not pharaohs fault the jews had short term memory lose with god his power

    28. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It has always amazed me how a God who allows free will is exactly like a God that is imaginary.Indoctrination is so powerful that it seems to severe the synapses and redirects the brain to obstinate blind faith. We need to stop doing this to our kids

    29. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And getit You yourself are an Author of hubs and a books , you write here on hub pages would it be fair to say you do not exist do not read your books or hubs, because you have not been seen , I respect you write here and I interact never seeing you

    30. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      But based upon sound evidence, it is prudent to have faith that I exist. I have faith that there is a person representing every pen name on Hubpages. No, doubt, I could meet u for coffee tomorrow.Your God can only live inside your head. He's not real

    31. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getitrite, how exactly have you determined God's not real? Because there's no 'natural' evidence of something 'supernatural'? That's an expected result. So is a natural world that formed itself. What would evidence of supernatural even look like?

    32. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Anything that cant naturally occur. Obviously

    33. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      But things that do occur that we haven't determined a natural cause for are just assumed to be something we haven't figured out yet. All supernatural would look like is a gap in our understanding. There's plenty of those.

    34. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Headly, I used the same method that you used to determine that Santa isn't real. I'm presuming that you do not believe in Santa. If our parents had confessed that they deceived us about God the same way they did about Santa, we wouldn't be debating

    35. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Getitrite, explaining how presents got under the tree and explaining how existence happened is two very different things. Our parents could only accomplish one of those. What alternative explanation explains existence? That it just happened this way?

    36. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yep. It just happened this way. Entropy and chaos at work. Saying evil and nonsensical things like angler fish and guinea worms were supposedly designed by a benevolent deity is madness. Well, claiming a deity exists at all is madness anyway, but...

    37. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Entropy and chaos, huh? That's what resulted in us humans existing with hopes and dreams and aspirations and a favorite color? Okay. That's nothing more than a rationality to justify ignoring the blatantly obvious. There's obvious intent behind it.

    38. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Every animal has aspirations and dreams; some are just more complex or long-term than others. And they are a survival mechanism indicative of a functioning brain, which is an advantageous trait passed down through the process of natural selection.

    39. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Uh huh. Yeah, it's always a survival characteristic. So what about favorite colors and songs? Survival too? Entropy and chaos led to the formation of survival instincts that include dreams? My dog has dreams and aspirations? How do you know?

    40. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Headly, I think you are now moving the goalpost. We are not talking about pondering existence, but about made up Gods that appear in holy books. Those Gods are just as made up as Santa. Just as Santa doesn't bring presents, they don't answer prayers.

    41. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately, "unbelievers" will NEVER exp the POWER of GOD due to unbelief!  "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.." (Prov 23:7) If 1 doesn't "believe," how will they ever "see?" 

      Those who do have exp'd His POWER & KNOW there's a GOD!

    42. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit true Santa is not real, but Santa costume represents the thought of gifts and a story of a saint.
      And people continued this custom  , really the letters adjusted
      Spells satan, and there is a satan, that breeds evil, this is true
      God is true

    43. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JC: Too smart for ur own good? "If u blindly follow w/o research & refuse to be openminded, youre stilting and insulting your own intelligence." Can ur intell outwit God's? Supernatural vs  "physical!"  SPIRITUAL JOURNEY!

      (II Chron 7:14; Prov 3

    44. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Getitrite, not moving goalposts. Existence exists and therefore requires an explanation. That God that's spoken about is claimed to be the creator. The whole claim is that they were "made up" to explain what's not understood. Goalpost is stationary.

    45. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yet life is not "stationary" for death is inevitable!  Don't forget, we're a spirit (which never dies) housed in a body! What then if you're wrong? Are u so "self sufficient?" What about the after life or will u just die? Don't blv in spirit world?

    46. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JC: Life is not "stationary!"  Death is inevitable!  What if we're right?  What then? Are or you so "self sufficient" you don't need any thing but your knowledge?

    47. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Headly, having favorite colors and songs is a byproduct of the fact humans developed advanced intelligence to make up for their lack of physical prowess. High intelligence allows us to come up with creative solutions to problems, but it also means--

    48. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      --human intellect also requires distractions and frivolity to keep us occupied and happy. Boredom is a problem that comes with intelligence, and is also experienced by dolphins, monkeys, and rats. We come up with these things to entertain ourselves.

    49. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Having a favorite color isn't boredom. We have preferences that have nothing to do with boredom. If we are merely biological machines then having preferences doesn't compute. We're compelled by dreams and passion because we are living beings.

    50. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Zel: Well, u continue intellectual "boredom" along w/"dolphins, monkeys, and rats" as I continue exp'ing "benefits" from HIS ALMIGHTY POWER due to "believing & having faith" in what HE has said & not a dull moment!

      Ur analysis, "Immature" or

  7. Kiss andTales profile image78
    Kiss andTalesposted 3 years ago

    We know now it is a moral law, but there was a time that this was not a health issue, And when it became one which was thinning the blood as deluting the blood with the same blood later caused sickness , and birth defects, Many kings and Queens marry in their own royal families.
    But today it is frowned on basically because it does exist and not considered as a good thing.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You need to watch Game of Thrones ;-)

    2. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You would think that starting with only 2 humans 1 made from the other, that it would result in such a similar blood typer at least by the 2nd and 3rd generation that we would have died off, but this is religion so i guess nature dont matter

    3. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Isa 65:17 For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart.
      This scripture tells us all the things that have caused harm and pain will not come to mind anymore

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JC:  GOD started w/2 humans & when GOD is involved no "similar blood typer!" After humans evolved, He gave LAW changing incest!  (Mosaic)

      With GOD, (who has Power to hold those "similar blood typers") all things are possible! (Matt 19:26;Mk 10:2

    5. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Also getit you will also read how people would lend themself out for work based on buying a mate,  they would work years
      For the hand of a future wife.
      These are customs people practice willing.

    6. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss and Tales, could u please try to correct your posting procedures. It cant be that complicated. U continually post under the wrong answer. This causes confusion.
      BTW, then I guess u are saying that the morals in the bible came from man not God.

    7. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      He does not use his abilities the way humans do, he gives life
      His enemies take it by many ways being a God of power and control he does not act on our command ,But he is nothing as the world judges him to be.
      Life is granted each day he allows it

    8. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Get: Why'd u ask a "believer" if "morals come fm man" when we blv His Word that we're "..created in His image?" Whether one wants to "blv" or not, we are a spirit housed in a body connected (in the image of GOD) to GOD!   

      SPIRIT=GOD=LOVE=Morals!

    9. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      For now if  I get  sick  I take  his advice,  who he has provided is my benefit
      What  does that have  to  with the truth,  you rely on the sun he made, the seeds that grow food he created, the many things that keep us living.

    10. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: Not related:  I'm "open-minded" & wish to know Scriptures that say "There is no hell/hades/whatever you want to call "fire" mentioned in Luke 16:23? Was this a parable? Give Scriptures to justify ur belief! I want to "grow!"

    11. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny you have written hubs as the author
      What is right about coping your hub, changing your name to Man, banning parts of your written and inspired work.
      100 years later some has your original and supports it. And another says you are not real ?

    12. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: U worry about the "wrong thgs" or don't blv Scripture! Didn't Jn 14:26 say the Holy Spirit would "lead & guide us into ALL truth?"  If u blv, why worry?

    13. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine you are confused by my comments under others name not posted to you under you. I use space available when I do not have a comment box, My device is limited
      To reply orderly .

    14. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: I thought it was just me, but I've seen others ask u to respond under 1 you're responding to! Why not? It's very confusing! We ALL have "limited space" but utilize what's available by abbreviating!  Try that!

    15. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine you are the first one that called people here immature , as seen, why when some one applies the same word to you with valid points of your activities here on HP
      It is an insult ?
      You youself used this word first and insulted others.

    16. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: Physical="man" (self effort)="immature!" Scripture says "WE GROW!" From immaturity or physical! (II Cor 3:18) Spiritual=GOD="MATURE" fm level of physical realm & cont "GROWING in CHRIST!"  Scripture says- Not me!  Insulted? Take it up w/

    17. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine then you should be the first one to apply your own statements and advice since you are the one that was insulted
      as you speak. Apply yourself to what you say to others.

    18. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Honestly you two people, you should understand that lack of use will stunt an organ.  Perpetual use of ancient scriptures instead of allowing the brain to work will lead to immaturity.

    19. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well lack of Jonny has made you not a nice person, I have yet to hear that from you, example is the best teacher.

    20. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: If insulted for telling TRUTH-Oh well, on them not me! Jn 4:24 is WRITTEN! 

      AL: Even science has proven mind more powerful than physical ability!  GROW UP!

    21. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit, I am really interested in Norine answer,and it is a good question.

    22. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: Why do u cont to "look @ the messenger" vs "looking @ THE MESSAGE?" Acts 17:11. Do as they did!  Study!

      JESUS is GOD!

    23. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So the cure you need would be cast aside with all the other medications , because people judge all bad . The truth is never bad
      People give up finding it and say it does not exist, or bad experiences stop people in believing that truth can be found

    24. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: GOD "sees" ur heart. Each X u post "out of sequence" He sees u acting like a Scribe and/or Pharisee!  U better b careful!  "Touch not my anointed, do my servants no harm." (I Chron 16:22;Ps105:15)  U "look" disoriented trying to "prevent!"

    25. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      RLWalker  if some one told you to go in the medicine cabinet and get the good medicine out and throw the rest away, what would you do , throw all out the medicine out even  the one you need to cure the problem.  Because that is just the issues here.

    26. RLWalker LM profile image74
      RLWalker LMposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I wouldn't throw all the others away, unless there was an abundance of good medicine, then I would incinerate them probably. This is more analogous to the reality of the matter.

    27. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @KissAndTales and @RLWalkerLM, I would first question the motives of the person telling me to throw the medicines away. Just as everyone should about this loaded question about "morals" and atheists. .

    28. RLWalker LM profile image74
      RLWalker LMposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I agree that religion and atheism get way too much airtime. One is a club for the soul and the other a club for the ego.

    29. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonmark, , precisely,   to question the one saying throw out all the medicine,  yet all medicine is not bad, example of a snake bite , there is a bite that has to be administered medicine before 30 minutes, do you have time to run a interview ?

    30. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      RL:  Precisely!  They cannot let go of that "ego!"  "For ALL that is in the world, THE LUST OF THE FLESH, & THE LUST OF THE EYES, & THE "PRIDE OF LIFE," is NOT of the "Father," but is of the "World" (I Jn 2:16)

      Rm 1:25 "..served the creator.

  8. qeyler profile image65
    qeylerposted 3 years ago

    Point to the Law.  Most places have laws against it.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Most but not all.

    2. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yea not all!!! You just argued against yourself with that statement. In this you claim our morals come from religion. Obviously in those places where its legal it is moral, meaning their morals dont come from atleast your religion!!

    3. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @John your above comment was a rubbish attempt at scoring a point. Whose winning?

    4. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It wasnt a attempt at a point. It was me pointing out youre contradicting yourself now.

    5. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes @Adbulssalamm, they all do. Even a small group of people have to compromise and that is law.

    6. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus: Does your country have laws against "incest?"

    7. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Most but not all - and those states in the USA with legal marriage between first cousins (still incest) are usually the most religious....

    8. fpherj48 profile image76
      fpherj48posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus..If your intention is "competition" w/ winners & losers, you're in the wrong place. Your questions are senseless & useless. No one will care if you find another site for your nonsense. U're like a child. Take UR "points" and go home, pl

  9. junkseller profile image84
    junksellerposted 3 years ago

    Silly question. Incest is only wrong to those who believe in such absolute truths. Asking someone who doesn't believe in your absolute truth to prove that truth via some other means just doesn't make sense.

    To someone who doesn't go around applying simplistic black and white litmus tests to everything, there isn't anything inherently wrong with incest anymore than there is something inherently wrong with any sex act. The wrongness arises from the how, when, and where of these sex acts. That is what can make incest wrong. That is what can make sex between God approved married couples wrong too, by the way.

    Some atheists may believe incest is universally harmful and therefore universally wrong, but still, the wrongness is in the harm caused not in the inherent act.

    1. Say Yes To Life profile image80
      Say Yes To Lifeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Unless you're the product of incest...

    2. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Unless you're the product of incest..."   Regardless, you have been given life as a result of that incest.  It's up to you to make the most of that life and get on with it.  Which you can if you are determined to.

    3. Ana Kolomeka profile image76
      Ana Kolomekaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Slightly hard, if you're physically or mentally disabled...

    4. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I am speechless by such liberal values "...there isn't anything inherently wrong with incest...".

    5. junkseller profile image84
      junksellerposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So what is inherently wrong with incest (without using scripture)?

    6. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Without using scripture would be to answer this question as an atheist, and I'd struggle to justify why it was wrong other than to say I find it repulsive. Merely finding something repulsive, does not give me the right to enforce my values on others.

    7. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You dont have the right to enforce anything on others! Nobody has that right!

    8. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Abdus that shows you are unable to think for yourself outside of your religious parameters.
      What makes you afraid to do so?
      You say you  don't have the right to force your views on anyone...yet that is just what you want to do.  Admit it!

    9. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      He actually didnt say that. He said him thinking it is gross doesnt give him the right, but it is implied he is saying his holy book gives him the right to enforce it on others.

  10. Faceless39 profile image95
    Faceless39posted 3 years ago

    Morals are dictated by yourself, your internal being, your soul. I would imagine that atheists have internal morals, regardless. An absence of status quo religion does not equal an absence of morals and beliefs.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And how would Atheists agree upon a standard moral code when one considers we all have our own set of morals? Are centuries of moral refinement and standardisation undertaken by the clergy to be lost and forgotten?

    2. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It's all based on consensus @abdulssalaam. You've created this idea that each person has their own set of moral codes and they never cross another. And that moral refinement is made up and forced by clergy, who should be banished as thieves & lia

    3. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I am neither for or against the clergy. I am saying the clergy had a purpose and fulfilled/fulfil a role in human society. I'm democratic and agree with the consensus approach even though I may not always agree with the majority.

    4. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      John ,My religion and my faith is based on the word of God, their is no other truth
      Then the ginuine map of his word.
      People seem to Judge God by imperfect humans who fall short in many ways
      But God is perfect we can never go wrong with him & Je

    5. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What @KissandTales has done in their response to me is to say that I do not have the benefit of reward without something they have, which is God. This is another way to say that I need them to be perfect. That 1 of these things is not like the other.

    6. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @John Mark: unless you carry out a deed for the sake of God, why would you have or expect a reward from God? The good deeds of the un-godly are for themselves, perhaps to feel good about themselves? I'm selfish, and want something in return.

    7. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And if "God" only exists in the minds of humans, no where else?

    8. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Again @Abdulssalaam, you're wrong. The only reason people believe in God and force that belief on others is for their own personal gain, if not immediate communion plate, non-profit status compensation, than to be rewarded in the afterlife.

    9. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Alan: God lives in a dimension unknown to man; you can only find Him when you look within yourself.

      @Jon: Agree, some people abuse and financially profit from religion, but not all.

    10. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No @abdulssalaam, they all do. You can't be a religious leader unless you benefit financially and manipulate the masses. Their flock is also convinced of their eternal reward, complete indoctrination & all of it should be shutdown so get ready.

    11. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And among them are some who criticize you concerning the [distribution of] charities. If they are given from them, they approve; but if they are not given from them, at once they become angry. (Q9:58)

      @Jon Mark are you angry?

    12. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And so you take a quote from a false book to provide the context @abdussalaam. Religious organizations are efficient distributors of charity, but under the condition that they accept you will provide them their salvation.

    13. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I agree Abdus.  That is where to find truth....individually, and that location cannot be used or abused by man-made religion or priests.

    14. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Abdus: " unless you carry out a deed for the sake of God, why would you have or expect a reward from God?" We do NOTHING "physical" to prove our belief in GOD! This is a "Spiritual" journey for "Spiritual" reward! "Works" were FULFILLED via NEW COV

    15. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, this is the classic argument which you are repeating now....you bring up again the Spiritual over the Physical.   Something which forever can never be proven/dis-proven, but you use it to presume you have the edge over unbelievers.

    16. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Late: You speak fm your perspective and me mine! 

      Another thing I love about this country, we can ALL exercise "Freedom of Speech!"

      I KNOW I "have an edge over unbelievers", because I've matured from Physical to Spiritual thinking!

    17. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well according to my freedom of speech, you demoted your intelligence from physical to spiritual. You have no edge over anyone, please and thank you think critically for once.

    18. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JC: ALL will remain "immature" until they move fm the "physical" into the "Spiritual" realm!  However, "self effort" seems to be the world's problem "..serving the creator more than the Creator..." (Rm 1:25)

    19. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      There is no spiritual relm

    20. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No spiritual realm, huh? Based on what? The lack of physical evidence? That's kind of expected that there'd be no physical evidence of a spiritual realm. So, not exactly something you can state with such certainty. You don't know that.

    21. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Headly!  Tell TRUTH!

      JC; "Thinking critically" is AGAINST the Word of God!  Prov 3:5 says "Lean not to YOUR OWN understanding..."  I've tried "both ways," (ben there, done that), and "benefits" fm SPIRIT surpasses ALL self sufficiency!

    22. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Thinking critically is against the word of God? I don't think that's true. I think God wants us to use our brains. That's why we have them. Following without thinking is not a good thing.

    23. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So it was your own lack of understanding that got you into deep water.  You stopped critical thinking and sank into the deep water....and now you can't swim out of it. Right NW?

    24. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You guys r so immature in "thinking!" One day 1 will be able to control devices with brain power but "belief" that 1 can do will produce results. So it is w/GOD!  "Believe" & get results!

    25. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Immature" would mean getting stuck at a particular infantile level of thinking.   This would surely apply to yourself, Norine:  in HubPages for 10 months; no hubs written; nothing about you in profile; 8 followers.  When will your mind grow up?

    26. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan: Precisely? "Renew mind" fm physical to Spiritual & show signs of "maturity!" As usual, when all else fails when truth told "insult!" As a man thinketh...so is he!" (Prov 23:7) Work on that "mind control!" Stagnate=no chg/no results for devi

  11. Levi Legion profile image61
    Levi Legionposted 3 years ago

    Abdus, the problem lies with your opening premise: "Morals are dictated by religons."

    It's partially true...SOME morals are dictated by religion, but some (I would say including a negative attitude toward incest) are have biological foundations. Incest is naturally repulsive to the vast majority of the human population, not because of religion, by because of an in-born knowledge that it's to be avoided.

    That said, an "atheist" could discourage incest by pointing out the miriad of scientific reasons why it's not a good thing to do. But fortunately most people don't even need convincing.

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It's interesting you mention "...in-born knowledge..." which is a concept the Arabs called 'Fitrah', an innate instinct.

    2. Levi Legion profile image61
      Levi Legionposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I think it's universally recognized that humans everywhere develop at least a basic set of "morals." Though the reasons for this are not entirely clear, it certainly does not prove that a "god" had anything to do with it.

    3. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I do not know much about the Fitrah other than I believe it exists. I believe it comes from God or Genetics? Quite how it works, Allah knows best.

    4. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      With most animal species, siblings don't mate with siblings.  There is some kind of inherent instinct that deters in-family breeding.
      We humans are basically animals.

  12. John Colarusso profile image76
    John Colarussoposted 3 years ago

    It is discouraged by society also on top of that the genetic issues that a potential child may face as a result of incest is discouraging enough to damn it as immoral by society. If we lived in a much less scientific society and had no grasp on the reprocutions of incest. Kings and families of the past, tribes used incest, and and many of those kings and queens did it for RELIGIOUS  reasons, almost making it more aparent that incest is okay in the eyes of a religious zelot

    1. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What were the RELIGIOUS reasons that kings and queens practiced incest? I can understand kings and queens practicing incest in order to hoard wealth, but this is not a religious reason but economics.

    2. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Many, not all but many, asserted themselves into power and claimed to have divinity. They claimed their power was from god, and a way to not tarnish that relationship or bring commoners into gods divine trust, was infact incest.

    3. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @John I won't even pretend to understand how you managed to 'stretch' Kings and Queens acting as Gods representatives here on Earth somehow equates to incest?

    4. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP THINGS IN THE FAMILY! WHAT IS NOT TO UNDERSTAND! Some thought they were divine some thought their rule came from god. Some believed to keep their divinity from the commoner.

  13. getitrite profile image78
    getitriteposted 3 years ago

    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/12637781_f260.jpg

    First, Morals PREDATE all contemporary religions. Then, there is the fact that there are, and have been...many religions, so which holy book's scriptures are you referring to? All of them?
    Just like deceitful politicians who attach their names to certain causes, so is the deceit of religions, that just attach their brand to morality, pretending that it was their God who gave these instructions on morality, covering up the real facts...that these morals were the result of man's evolving social norms.
    And how do you explain morality in other animal species? Did they read holy books too?
    Morals did not come from Gods, they evolved throughout the animal kingdom, as a result of the striving to secure survival of the species...aided by empathy.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      To me morals are based on what my creator states as right and wrong, people deviate from that and create their own.
      And because they have and follow their own rules and thoughts the earth suffers in many ways.
      Man has not solved it all he can't.

    2. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Are you Jewish Christian or Muslim, or a different godsentric, creator based religion? This is directed to Kiss and Tales

    3. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And where is the evidence that prove that you have a creator? You cant just make up creators, based on what others have told you. You need to provide proof that you have been given accurate and truthful information. You haven't.

    4. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @John Regardless of Kiss andTales religious denomination; she at-least has a scripture, whereas you have nothing. Or is Science your scripture? Science does not belong to you, Science belongs to mankind, thus Science belongs to us all.

    5. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      That makes no sense. I dont need a scripture my morals are based on what best suits society, i dont want to be killed i expect others dont want me to kill them, i dont wamt my shit stollen i assume people dont want me to steal their shit.

    6. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      If your morals are based on what best suits society, then, your morals are flexible and I suppose this is fine. Therefore if you lived in German society during WW2, then your morals would be Nazi.

    7. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The majority of germans did not agree, also no I would not, because that bests suits THE GOVERNMENT the government does not dictate whats best for society, ie fucking NAZIS.

    8. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It is the government that decides what is best for society. If you lived in South African society during the apertheid, your morals would be to view black people as 2nd Class citizens; otherwise your statement: 'morals based on society' is wrong?

    9. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well it does change depending on the place, but no government does not dictate what is best. However that is a completely different argument. However it does depend on the society. Some things are wrong in other places, and some are right in others.

    10. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      http://kissandtales.hubpages.com/, is wrong in believing where morals come from. The ONLY reason you believe your creator states those morals, is because someone told you that. Those and others also told you it was in a book, written by people.

    11. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Not true Jmark, Do you.know me.that Well To Know  when and where I believe what I believe, not here on a Web site  can you say you know personal info. It is only what I share with you that you will learn about me.

    12. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly why I asked what religion you are.

    13. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: If you be ashamed of me, I'll be ashamed of you {paraphrasing}  (Mk 8:38)

    14. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss and Tales, are you suggesting that you got your beliefs from somewhere other than the Bible? If so, please share that with us. If not, then, we have to assume JMarks assertions are correct. We'll be waiting.

    15. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      As "man" makes "laws" that "seem right" (Prov 16:25); similarly he excercises morals which r innate (Rm 2:14-16)!  Additionally, confirmation comes from environment, society, law, and/or religion! 

      Great question Abdus!  You made me study!

    16. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit, that is surly a misunderstood and misread of scriptures
      Because the readers have drawn their own meanings
      First to understand slavery was not based on race, it was based on wages an debts,  the one who owes would lend himself out to pay debt

    17. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It still condones slavery! Which is bad! Regardless of racial reasons!

    18. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      John if you had read the intire meaning behind what is written,  you would not being saying those words usual people tend to turn innocent situation into
      Judge mental wrongs, when only this slavery was not harsh or demanding,  it was a debt owed

    19. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No i understand it loud and clear. And that isnt always the case, I am in the process of reading the entire bible, and it is surely not the entire case. Slavery is still bad regardless of a debt owed or not.

    20. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, slavery isn't always bad. In that age, before laws and governments and order and such, slavery wasn't such a bad option. You lived under the protection of those in power and were provided food and shelter. It's not like there was a job market.

    21. John Colarusso profile image76
      John Colarussoposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      That may be so, and you are right there, however this is a claim of being right. By a holy book, claimed to be the word of a all knowing all powerful deity, you would think hed see the future and be like slavery, not cool, do this instead

    22. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So getit let's listen to what you are saying, you do not believe in free will, God does,  you do not believe the bible is the answer to humans future, Why. What is. What is the answer to all sickness, death, for all humans, what is the right Gover

    23. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss and Tales, you are committing the Argument From Ignorance fallacy. You're also committing the fallacy of Special Pleading.You're saying that since we don't know certain things...then the answers must be in the Bible. Nothing but indoctrination.

    24. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      without your big words I will make this real simple,
      Not seeing something does not mean it does not exist. We do not see oygen but we benifit and use it to keep alive.
      So who created this also is not visible ,that does not mean he does not exis

    25. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T - we can measure oxygen, therefore we can see it. For existence of God, there is no standard measurement. Personal experience is NOT a measurement.
      U also mention bkgrnd 2 slavery being condoned making it ok bt u ignre it with LGBT + cherry

    26. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      To both K&T and Norine, I just want to say that if you have found your faith, each in different ways, to be support for your lives, then the faith is ok for you.  Hang on to it, I respect you for it.   But you cannot be saviours for others.

    27. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny I agree about saving , I can not save anyone in a spiritual sense, it is God who makes the final judgment about an individual,  but we are as fellow humans instructed to share our love and concern for others.

    28. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss - Measurable, visible 2 the eye under microscope, visible in lack of oxygen turning a person blue in the lips. Doesn't prove design. Scientific measurements of God don't exist. U ignored my ? - why ignore bkgrnd of LGBT verses, if bkgrnd imprtnt

    29. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jpark, you said visible with the eye , the things I listed are visible and measured as well by scientists.
      Next I do not understand your questions with abbreviation , please ask so I can read you properly. I have no problem answering questions .

    30. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Then reply on the same comment not others. They aren't proof of design - they do not point to any Creator of the 1000s, let alone yours. There is no measurement of God. You may see them as proof, but they aren't. It's off topic anyway - back to moral

    31. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Al: If u were member of org & 1 rule was no liars to maintain, you'd never lie! Well 1 rule as "believer" is "teach" to maintain & we do!  We speak not of ourselves, but HIM!

    32. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Getitrite, regarding your OP. I think that's naive to think something like morality could just come about through random, unintended evolution. How else would God create it? Why does that mean there's no God involved? There's intention in creation.

    33. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Headly,
      Please show objective evidence of this God that you speak of, lest your opinions are based on nothing. And while you are at it, please show objective evidence of how he created himself, and dictated a book. Thanks

    34. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Demanding objective evidence is illogical. So everything that exists is beholden to the five senses we evolved in this one environment? Do you know how unlikely that is? Besides, the distinction was made long ago between physical/spiritual.

  14. peeples profile image92
    peeplesposted 3 years ago

    Oh why must religious people make stuff so complicated!?!?!? Morals are born into people or learned through common practices which do not need to be religious. Morals are mostly born in.
    My 4 year old has morals. She sees a bug, her natural instinct is not to hurt it because it is alive. I never had to say "don't hurt that. It's alive". She naturally knew that hurting another life was wrong.
    Not only does incest cause physical and mental issues for breeding purposes, if incest occurs while one of the involved are a child severe issues can happen.
    I don't need a book to believe it's wrong because I have been a victim of it. I FEEL how wrong it is. I have to live the rest of my life feeling how wrong it was! My morals come from being the opposite of my abuser who for the record was an ordained preacher who quoted and read the bible often.
    Nothing is worse than a religious person sitting on a high horse claiming superiority while ignoring the fact that most criminals claim a religion and are NOT atheists!
    Oh and as a long term incest provider, my morals tell me that putting up a picture like you did is not only idiotic, but it's also morally wrong.

    1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      First off, I'm sorry to hear about what happened.

      But I'd like to say that it's not religious people who make it complicated. It is complicated. You said it yourself, morality is inherent. That can't be an accident. That's where it gets complicated.

    2. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And I hope the correction "Survivor" isn't needed to my misplaced word, but I'll correct it here. My grammar and typing gets awful when I'm frustrated with idiotic questions.

    3. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Peeples you are correct we are born with a concious, to do right or wrong , the problem is to we use them or do we ignore them,
      But the catch here is why do we have a concious ? and why should we use them ?
      and if we do not who suffers ?

    4. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Why? Survival of the species. All species have things they are born doing in order to survive. Again nothing to do with religion, just natural reactions. If the goal is to get to how the species began, I couldn't care less. We're here allthat matters

    5. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      There is a subtle difference between conscious & conscience. Conscious is awareness of your thoughts whereas conscience is the moral compass.
      http://hub.me/ajKav

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Peeples I disagree with we do things just to survive,  because as you have related your experience , I do not think you were a victim
      based on survival, this person did wrong and knew it was just as you knew  and also you said he was ofa religion.

    7. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, that's not the catch at all @KissAndTales. The initial question was about atheists and how they can reject the act of incest without the benefit of scripture. @HeadlyVonNoggin, the issue didn't become compl. until religion ran with it.

    8. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jmark If that is what your ears hear , I can not say it is not what you feel, or think , but you can not speak for another,  because you are an individual with your own thoughts I do not argue with that.

    9. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You are wrong again @KissAndTales. Rest assured that non-believers are going to get the upper hand in all of this and banish you from society. I'm making that effort everyday and rally up others to do the same. You've been warned.

    10. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So you JonMark are threatening people here, I think HP has laws and rules here about you and anybody else making threats.
      Do I have to report you?
      You

    11. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You misunderstand @KissAndTales. I am making an active effort to dismantle religion in my community and getting other atheists to do the same. Don't you get that?

    12. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      With Threats to me on HP, as you directed a warning to me here.  I do not live in your community,  so you are responding to me in general as a threat.

    13. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Perfect @KissAndTales. If you've convinced yourself that it's a personal threat then report me. let's take this all the way to the top.

    14. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jmark , convince myself ? No you chose the words I did not. You said warn to me or can mean any other religious person . Sad!

    15. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Peep: If morals are innate, why aren't we in agreement w/what is right or wrong?  Why aren't they the same?

    16. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The majority of ppl are in agreement. In all species there are the odd balls out that do things that the rest don't. The majority of the population for example agrees murder is wrong. Is your belief in a god the only thing keeping u from being killer

    17. abdussalaam profile image82
      abdussalaamposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @peeples perhaps religion and fear of prison stops one from killing.

    18. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Then if that is all keeping them from killing they are seriously screwed up. How about not killing simply because you don't want to hurt someone, because you value life, or value other people?

    19. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Peeps: MY "belief" in GOD, teaches me "Do unto others as u would have then do unto u!"  Innate + environment + religion = morals!

    20. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I understand what peeples  is saying , we should have a inner law that tells us wrong and right This is written as well , by religion being tainted or no longer pure it is not
      Working for many, so she is saying live by your inner law of right

    21. peeples profile image92
      peeplesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Very right Kiss. We KNOW these things are wrong naturally and should follow that no matter what.

    22. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T/Peep: You're RT & confirmation is rec'd fm religion, society & laws!  I'd never studied this re: Scripture!

      Rm 2:14-16! Only RT morals r according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, if believer!  w/o Morals reinforced by society & l

    23. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      To getit and John , your very wish will come true ? Did you think you were the only ones disgusted with religion, you see
      This very thing was told before our birth,  religion will fall, read Revelations. The point is that is not all will happen.

    24. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Amen!

      Don't you all KNOW this WORLD is "SATAN'S KINGDOM?"  GOD gave it to him & he is supposed to win (or so one thinks)!  We r to appear "humble" or IGNORANT to them! Only those w/"ears" will hear!

      Be not deceived SATAN has ALREADY been DEFEAT

    25. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Your story Norine - and you're sticking to it....but I don't buy it at any price.

    26. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Death is inevitable!  What if I'm right & you're wrong?  ETERNITY is a LONG TIME! It doesn't cost you anything but "humbling yourself" and "believing!"  So what if you're called "ignorant," they'll talk about u regardless!Give them a reason &

    27. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Not even a reasonable question, Norine.   Death does come, and all the tissues of my body recede into a mush which is in turn devoured by other organisms. 
      "Spiritual?"   All designed and built up in your own mind for your own edification.

    28. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      , Heb 5:14But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.children do not know auto that it is wrong to take wrong to lie ,wrong to disrepect
      We train early

    29. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It's time ALL "Grow" from "carnality" to "Spirituality" otherwise, "immature!"  (Prov 3:5)

    30. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What?!  And miss all the fun, Norine?!
      You don't know what you're missing.
      Remember -you'll not get any of it in the next world - ya ain't got no body!

    31. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes I am aware of where I post, But I am aware I am followed correctly and answered, next as stated before my device is limited to comment space settings. I address the persons name to direct my comments so there should be no confusion.

    32. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Al: Fun?  "Renewing mind" (stinking thinking) for (Holy Spirit) mind control  produces more "benefits!" Now that's "FUN!"   Cant comprehend="Immature!"  Future devices will require "mind control" U will have no exp to control! GROW in the Spirit!

    33. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You know Abdus I have been on HP for some years now , and have heard and read many hubs of people who write here rather I agree or do not , I do not tell people where to go.
      If a person does not like what is posted then they can take their leave.

  15. manatita44 profile image82
    manatita44posted 3 years ago

    Morals are dictated by struggle; the Light of the Soul and level of Consciousness. But we need not call it this. If you feel that incest is wrong, then there is already a victory for your inner Conscience, not others.

    Atheists are really nice people, and some have essentially beautiful Spirits. The spiritual life is all about living a pure and examplary life. We can best do this in a group as well as at home, but all will be dictated by your own inner urge for knowledge or progress. I cannot teach you this.

    Back to your incest question.Think of yourself as a servant, like I do, and try to inspire. Above all, feel that Life has Someone or Something in charge. You are only an instrument. You still need to do your duty to discourage this, but do it with Love, and after having done it, let go and leave God (call It what you will)

    We are here to glorify or manifest Something Higher, and should always do this to the best of our ability, whether it's with work, parents, friends or dealing with problematic morals as you mentioned. Also work with others. We are alone, and again we are never alone. A Paradox? Yes!

    Seek out the necessary agencies that can help you or the individual. Child protection service, police, etc. A true molester would not stop just by you saying so or telling one to stop. Add sincere prayer and again, leave all finally to the Inner Master. Much Love.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      This is the reason I never ignore your responses, Manatita - you are not usually dogmatic.  The central Love motive comes through loud and clear to me.

    2. manatita44 profile image82
      manatita44posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well, Brother Alan. I like you, too. Much gratitude and deep appreciation from one fellow brother to another.

    3. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Even though slavery existed race later , that was done by t a well known religion who traveled the world looking for slaves , first it was the Indians that turned out bad for them
      Then it was African tribes they captured to enslave.They succeed

    4. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Managing Are you a preacher by any chance!!!

    5. manatita44 profile image82
      manatita44posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Peter.

      I am a student of Peace. The Life-Tree has diverse branches, All of which are essential to the Tree.The rose sacrifices its fragrance, as do the daffodils. Each wafting its unique beauty to man. I see the Light or flame in All: LOVE.

    6. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Man:To teach His Word when MOST have "preconceived ideas," read what happens in Heb 4:12 & Mat 10:34! Not just a "Divine Game" wreaking w/LOVE but TRUTH which "cuts!" Who wants to hear that? Consequently, argue against HIS WORD! LOVE=TRUTH!

    7. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Also Jonny Norine speaks for her beliefs,  I differ from her , and disagree with teachings and procedures in comments.
      Direct your reply to me personal,  I have nothing to do with her views.
      So you two is not valid.

    8. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T:Norine gives Scripture & Verse so Who do u not agree with?  R u a follower of Christ? Why disagree? 1 "taught" & 1 "revealed? Is that why we r in disagreement? Remember, I give WORD! Work it out with JESUS!

  16. jlpark profile image81
    jlparkposted 3 years ago

    Science, and harm to another (depending on type of incest)

    However, when we hear "incest" - many people instantly see the child being abused by the parent sexually, for years, or even the once. The power over another, harm being caused etc.

    Incest can be that - sexual abuse of a minor, by a parent or sibling.
    BUT, it can also refer to two consenting adults (over 18) who are closely related (siblings, first cousins etc) entering into a sexual relationship CONSENTUALLY.

    The abuse example - harms another being. The use of power over this person, and the harm being inflicted on a person is why it is discouraged and illegal as it is an offence against a minor.

    The Consentual Close Relatives example is different but discouraged due to the "shallow gene pool' and it's complications. Have two very closely related gene pools can, and does (though not always), cause genetic disorders, significant disabilities, intellectual issues, medical conditions that may not be obvious until adulthood (or could be passed on to future children). Which, you could say causes harm to the child conceived in an incestuous relationship - they do not choose to have these somewhat avoidable issues (avoidable in that two consenting adults who were related CHOSE to have children knowing the risks to the child).

    Funnily enough, it's legal to marry your First Cousin in many states ...some of which were anti Marriage Equality for LGBT people....so, it's not exactly discouraged by a somewhat Christian nation either.

    But there you go - thats how I would discourage incest, and I'm an agnostic-atheist.

    Morals are NOT dictated by religion. Morals existed prior to religion (many cultures had laws against rape, murder etc, prior to the arrival of Christ, and Christianity for example). If you ONLY don't do bad, because SOMEONE might be watching, are you really good, or just scared? (Those who say Morals are only from religion scare me...what would they do if God wasn't watching?)

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Do as you do!  Avoid legalities by doing what works best in society to avoid the least repercussions!

    2. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jpark I was trying to decipher your abbreviation and I figured it out.
      I looked the Letters up.
      Why ignore background if it is important.
      Based on what comment . I am totally confused.

    3. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Just goes to show, K&T, that when you have to use your brain and think further than your philosophy you find it difficult.

    4. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Now K&T you see how it is when you post on wrong comments - hard to follow. If background to slavery in bible is important as you said it is, why is it overlooked when it comes to the background of gay verses - they are cherry picked out of conte

    5. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well it is difficult when a person writes a questions in the form of abbreviations and letters,  that has nothing to do with the truth
      That is already established.  My brain works good enough for that Jonny.

    6. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I did that to fit it all in and made it as obvious as possible. U want context to be taken in2 consideration regarding slavery in the bible by us, but will use verses out of context (Lev 18, Lev 20 etc) when it suits, why? Context explains it all

    7. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      If you believed there is a God of order and justice and he has a right to say what benefits each and every human it would make sense to you it doesn't because you are taking a stand against his words so that is between you and Him.

    8. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Please allow me to comment:  I am not against "his word," only against the fanatical presumption such as yours, K&T.

    9. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny you can believe that , but only God knows the truth. It does not matter what you think about me and I have not made comments about me personally,  but you and others have because I share the hope that is given to the world .

    10. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The analogy of a goldfish bowl springs to mind.  I have no idea of how the goldfish might view the world, but imagine it's like looking in on itself, with no wider possible perspective.  Would it be open to any other perspective?  I wonder.

    11. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      God u guys so "immature!" Have u heard of mind over matter? Saying that u might understand! We "renew our minds" fm "carnal" to "Spiritual" w/more results! Mind more powerful than physical! 1 day they'll create devices w/mind control.U no practice!

    12. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      That is the reason God does not talk , or intervene now,  because it is the true person of the heart he seeks, not pretense because of his presence.  But the real you.
      You made a good point Jlpark.
      But he will not stay silent for much longer.

    13. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: If u new "HIS WORD" (2 Cor 16:21); you'd no why I cont to say "It's SPIRITUAL! Jn 4:24If you want to no why I cont to say "WE GROW" (II Cor 3:18) "chg fm glory to glory" as He did (flesh, then Holy Spirit) II Cor 3:16 "no more flesh"but SPIR

  17. Zelkiiro profile image94
    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago

    Because genetics is a thing? And siblings mixing genes has an extremely high chance of producing mutant offspring that are unfit for facing the harsh realities of life? And no one would want to give birth to a harlequin fetus? This wasn't immediately obvious? You needed a holy book to tell you not to do it?

    Says an awful lot about someone if religion is the only reason they don't immediately turn around and pork their sister...

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Facts speaks again!  Statistics have "proven" incest is not acceptable for many reasons.

      Whether or not an unbelievers wants to admit it, their morals & values were established from the Word of God!

    2. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Except, y'know, for that whole thing where incest was all over the place in the Old Testament and commissioned by God himself?

    3. profile image69
      jmark13posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah @Zeikiiro but this is from a Muslim perspective. They have their own book, otherwise they would agree.

    4. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The OP may be a Muslim perspective, but Norine's reply to my answer sure isn't. Norine is a die-hard Christian apologist who can't comprehend that humans existed 197,000 years before her cult was founded and thus had these things figured out already.

    5. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Zel: Exactly!  He had to come & "get the job done" Himself!  Gave ALL "free will" & look's like we're back where we started BEFORE He came!

      SAD!

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      John a debt owed to pay back by becoming a worker for the one  you owed.
      We call it bartering in some states  trading something for something even a trade of service,
      The word slave is used but not in a bad way. But people have turned the word bad

    7. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "The word slave is used but not in a bad way."

      ಠ_ಠ

    8. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      One must pay for their "keep"="slave" or "We call it bartering.." as was referred to in bible!  No job, work & I'll feed & "keep" you! Europeans used derogatively not bible!  Look @ who JESUS used most- the least! It's a blessing to be "the l

  18. JudyWestcott profile image61
    JudyWestcottposted 3 years ago

    Atheists teach their young right from wrong, just as any parent of any religion. I disagree that morality is dictated by religion. Religions have been known to conduct horrendous acts to humans on earth. Morality can be born from a sense of community and empathy towards fellow human beings. Atheists rely on their government to represent the values of their society. They have elected representatives to pass laws that dictate incest is against the law of society, for example. This why separation of state and religion is so important. The government, which is why democracy is so important, represents the people and their values and ensures our beliefs are upheld.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit understand you exist because of my God, and not to believe in my God would be like not believing in you.
      My faith is based on you as proof .
      So you can not separate that .it is reality to me.

    2. Zelkiiro profile image94
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Falsely implying Nu Wa didn't create you, of course. If Nu Wa didn't treasure humanity so much, she would so allow the Pillars of Creation to crumble and crush you for your heresy.

    3. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Mr Z, who is this NuWa, you are assuming I know , and I do not.

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      His "facetious" god!

  19. profile image55
    Norine Williamsposted 3 years ago

    They go by what "statistics" have proven "works" in our society.  Atheists need "facts" and only "proven" results or statistics work for them.  Albeit to them, the morals and values that have been "proven" to "work," and as you said were "..dictated by religions..." or Christianity which came from the Word of God!

    What a "Mighty God" we serve!  ALL will serve Him before it's over!

    Consequently, when they exercise their "morals and values," they are following what is WRITTEN IN HIS WORD!

    1. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Oh yes, and don't forget that "God" who's such a  bully in you daily life, DEMANDING that you obey him (and his followers), is also a god of "Love."
      But then any religious apologist will quickly find an explanation for this.

    2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny,

      This isn't God demanding you obey Him. It's simply a necessity. God is like the DNA of the universe. Cells not adhering to the DNA becomes a detriment to the rest of the system. Any complex system requires order. God is love, no doubt.

    3. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Alan: As a parent that is "a bully in your daily life, DEMANDING that u obey them is/was also a parent of "Love," & SO IS GOD!

      Great Explanation Jeremy!

    4. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      As always, Jeremy and Norine, you are welcome to and entitled to your own beliefs.

    5. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And you yours!  Thanks!

    6. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny, I want to stress that this, while it is technically a belief, isn't as baseless as most. It's actually a legitimate thing. The fact that matter behaves according to "law", yet we seem to have free will, is telling. Behavior matters.

    7. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit just because you have the power to do something does not mean using that power,there is a time and place for everything, as example you own a powerful weapon for hunting , does that mean use it on anything at anytime?
      God does not think human

    8. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Heaven forbid that God think like some humans think!"

    9. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And sayit. Who am I committing anything against You! did you create me , birth me, feed me, do you pay my bills , and do you provide for my survival, none of these , so if I commit
      Something it would be to who I give my love and worship to
      Not you

    10. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, there are many societies not based upon the bible, and they do just fine. P.s slavery was a common thing in Christian Europe an America.

    11. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You see where it is today? LOOK @ JESUS!  In addition, He makes the last first & the first last so you'd better listen when "this slave" speaks fm Scripture!

    12. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, that "Jesus" lived and died 2000 years ago.  The resurrection has happened in your mind, tailored to your needs.  It belongs to you, no one else.

    13. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Really?  He died? Did I not tell you this is a "Spiritual" journey?  Did His Spirit die?  Can't prove that by me or any other "believer!"  God you're missing a lot with "closed mindedness!"  MATURE fm "carnal" to "Spiritual" fm "natural" to "Supernat

    14. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      That's funny Norine.  "Closed Mind?"
      Talk about " The Pot Calling the Kettle Black...."

    15. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus never lived in the first place. Just a myth copied from other myths. There are dozens of heroes made from there fathers flesh. Doing magic and sacrificing themselves. Still you can learn from myths though, just don't take them literally.

    16. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan: I pray u haven't been given over  to "..a reprobate mind.."  (Rm1:28)

      Pete: "...don't take them literally?"  Literal is so far (immature) from "Spiritual" & reqs "self effort" which doesn't allow Holy Spirit to "WORK!"  This is an easier j

    17. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, "Immaturity!"  SPIRITUAL vs physical?  Not an option for that's what we were created from (& he became a living soul) & there we will return!

    18. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, ".. the reprobate mind is one that is corrupt and worthless."   You can live in hope and pray as much as you like, but you will never know whether my mind is that way inclined or not.  It's not for you to know or decide...fortunately.

    19. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan: I  NEVER "decide" but HIS WORD does & He has spoken! Now whether you prefer to blv the instructions (bible) He left for 1 to follow or not is up to u but "His Hand is still stretched out!" (Isaiah 5:25)

    20. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You don''t give up do you Norine!   But your responsibility is your life, not mine.   Please do the loving thing and stop trying to convert me.  My life is none of your business.

    21. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan:  Amen! U do have "free will!" My hands r clean! I've done what He asked of me!  My heart breaks for ETERNITY is a LONG TIME in HELL for ALL who don't believe!

    22. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      To park , you measure and see air , but you can not see that until you did that it was not visible,  So now with the same understanding , you measure the moon, the stars, the universe, you also can measure the human body and it will prove design.

  20. lisavollrath profile image96
    lisavollrathposted 3 years ago

    Morals are dictated by society, not religion. Atheists and theists alike would discourage incest because their shared society says it's unacceptable.

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      See?  "...shared society.."  Unbeknown to them, they were "...created in the image of God.." and as such "innate" fm "Righteousness" (God)! Unfortunately, thereafter, form opinions fm environment, society, and/or religion!

  21. hakemzrman profile image69
    hakemzrmanposted 3 years ago

    They don't have any references of what is right and what is wrong like a religious guy(there is religion because there is Creator), and it just dependent on themselves. If an Atheist is a good behaving citizen, then he will see it as something wrong. However, when an Atheist is a bad guy, mafia guy, immoral guy, then he'll say it is something right and nothing wrong.

    What I mean is right or wrong is logically something relative to an Atheist and it doesn't matter, because for them, they lived as useless as they will die.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @hakemzrman, are you suggesting that those of an atheist way of thinking are living useless lives?  I take great care to live my life to the fullest, because there is nothing, no thing, after my death.  How about your life?  Wasted in the name of ?

    2. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And if not "wasted" & there is a hell, what then?

      Why "gamble" for "ETERNITY" is a LONG TIME! 

      "Believing" doesn't cost one ANYTHING & what "a shock" if ur blief isn't true!

      U prepared for old age, why not death when both are inevitable?

    3. hakemzrman profile image69
      hakemzrmanposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      @Alan I suggest it's not logic that we lived just to ended up as nothing. Believers' lives weren't wasted, because we're promised of Heaven&eternal life from our Maker. Disbelievers will be given Hell & suffering for eternity. Have fear.

    4. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with that is we can not read hearts true identity of the person will be judge by that, and a unbelieving person today could change his mind .I was a unbeliever previous in my life , but in a different way, the way of false infomation .

    5. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: Yet "studying" bible which corrupts God's Word (even moreso than KJV) continues falsehood unless lead by Holy Spirit.  Why do u think GOD places people in one's life?  If u don't know, can't discern!

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      2Co 5:10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of the Christ, so that each one may be repaid according to the things he has practiced while in the body, whether good or bad,
      Notice each one judge. You are not judge based on another human.

    7. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The epitome of religious control and bullying.
      hakemzrman says:
      "Disbelievers will be given Hell & suffering for eternity. Have fear."
      And with that you plan to control the world?   Be careful what you wish for!  You will be ruled by the same la

    8. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny where did you hear from me hell , and suffering there is no such thing , God does not do this to any human.
      Yet people put trump up charges on him . Sad because they miss the truth , and his real puropse of saving lives
      To live forever.

    9. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      OK, K&T, you put a question to "hakemzrman."  Are you supporting him or her?   If not, don't leave me and others to confront him.

    10. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      God does not exist Norine. Nobody has ever made a photograph of her. Not believing a gamble? No. Imagine when I die and come face to face with a God. Would she discriminate and make a distinction between believers and atheists? If so, she is unjust.

    11. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Peterstip My God exist , again as you exist,  I have never seen you , you have hubs I can read but I have never seen you
      You write here on HP does that mean what I read is false of your existing ? Proof Of you is communication on Hp, so is the Bible

    12. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      PeterStip writes here in HP the same way you and I do K&T.  It's reasonable for us to assume that he exists in the plane as we do
      The god you speak of has the imaginary form that you build for your preference to suit your own needs.

    13. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      A book of his writings as others write as well Hubs, you and Peter are, proof of my God who have created all things, you can not exist and he does not., I never saw you Jonny but I communicate by writing and you the same. , so does God.

    14. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss. God does not write on Hub Pages. ergo he does not exists.

    15. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Kiss & Tales, this has been thoroughly and logically explained to u, yet u still persist in mindlessly repeating this statement.
      When u have a medical emergency, do u go see a doctor(real person)or do u just go to God? Oh ye of LITTLE FAITH?!

    16. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So Peter you write, God writes both of you do not exist.
      That does not make sense to me.

    17. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Much of what you write, K&T, does not make sense to me - not wishing to be unkind....

    18. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      it was a stupid answer on stupid assumptions.
      There are more people not writing on hubpages then there are people that do....
      I quit this foolish conversation, have nice day.

    19. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete: Im sorry for ur unbelief! I believe & cont to receive "benefits" fm that belief! This morning SSA ruled in my son's favor by placing 1 of my ex coworkers there to make "ruling" & gave him MAX benefits! (Dr/Lawyer)

      What a mighty GOD I

    20. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, why can't you leave pete to himself, to his own choices and LEAVE IT AT THAT?!  You are so presumptuous, that your way and what suits you is what others need.  Stop feeling sorry for him.  He does not need your sympathy!

    21. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan" Spokesperson for Pete r u?  If u look above, he spoke to me! Yes, I feel sorry for ALL that don't believe for "eternity" in hell is a LONG time! "Benefits" fm Jesus not"coincidental!" Too many "coincidents" n my life!

      Urs would be easier 2!

    22. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Butt out of peoples' lives, your beliefs are yours to have, but it is not a loving christian thing to presume yours is the way everyone needs to follow.   This attitude of yours is not one of love, but of wanting to control.  You don't know my needs.

    23. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Alan: I don't have "a way to follow." I repeat WORD which I blv!  "Preconceived ideas" not corr divided WORD, I corr by repeating  WORD when consideration hasn't been taken of who, what, where, when & why when studying Scripture! HIS way or NO wa

    24. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, their are millions of people living on this planet, everybody with different opinions about life and death. To presume that you're opinion is the right one is very arrogant.

    25. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      P: I blv in GOD & His Word! If He says IT-IT IS SO! That's why ..."wide is the gate that leads to destruction..." (Matt 7:13-14) becuz of so many "unbelievers!"  But this is Satan's Kingdom (Jn 10:10) 

      I Pray!

    26. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, are you 100% unable to respond with a human intellect?   This biblical stuff you keep coming up with is just beyond intelligence, it's fanatical.

    27. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      AL: You finally GOT IT! Beyond man's intellect physical to Spiritual! Mature! Allowing Holy Spirit to Operate! Close to (so u can see) MIND OVER MATTER! As I said, 1 day devices will operate w/mind control. Get ready! Connect to GOD for "FULL" Oper

  22. profile image0
    PeterStipposted 3 years ago

    I'm an atheist and I've never murdered,raped or hit anybody. I've never stolen (well as a child...)
    Why do I not murder, rape and steal if I do not believe in God or Gods ?
    There is a very simple rules :
    Do not harm another person because the next time you could be the person that's harmed.
    Socially it's not clever. If you harm someone, it may be that in the future you have to ask that person for help.
    Empathy. Imagine that you where the person that was raped.

    Incest is wrong on many levels. It creates warped relationships in families, which in the end will break a family apart. (not a good survival technique)
    Genetics. In a small community, incest will bring forth weak babies.
    Your bloodline becomes weak and will die. Again not a very good survival technique.

    Morals are based upon a set of rules to strengthen the society. You do not need a holy book to know that killing is a bad thing, same thing for incest.

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, "innate" because we have been "..created in His image..."  & "His image" is "righteousness!"  Then, we "form our opinions" based on environment, society and/or religion!

    2. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Created in his image!! Its evolution Norine. Every well educated person knows this. I do not believe in any God, but I know what's good and what's wrong. I do not need a holy book to tell me that , only compassion and empathy.

    3. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Problem:  "Well educated!" Man's knowledge is so "immature" in comparison to things of the spirit!  Hard to get to that level isn't it with all of that knowledge!

      Work done toward Masters in Theology so not "uneducated" but NO THING beats SPIRIT!

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete:  Yes, bcuz you were "created in His image.."  therefore "innate!"  Not very well "educated" or "mature" if 1 hasn't moved fm carnal to Spiritual!

    5. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, what makes your believe the true believe and better then other believes? Why are you so arrogant to say such a thing. I am not created in the image of your God. I was created out of driftwood found on the shore.

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny I can not leave you and others anywhere ,you are in control of your life decisions and have always been, but that has nothing to do with what God has planned for the near future.  He invites not force,  he allows the truth to be found

    7. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete aka Mr. Wood: I believe in His Word (bible)! I only show how "religion" has "misled" others by not taking who, what, where when, why into consideration when/if they've studied Scripture!

      If 1 would "study" (open) for themselves, it's WRITTEN!

  23. Virginia Allain profile image86
    Virginia Allainposted 3 years ago

    I don't believe that only religious people are moral. Certainly many religious people violate moral guidelines, so scripture has not prevented them from committing incest.

    Many people who are not religious still have basic beliefs in kindness, fairness, proper treatment of others.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for fairness Virginia.  No one else has answered you yet ...Wonder why?

    2. hakemzrman profile image69
      hakemzrmanposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Nobody will argue with what you've said whether religious guy or not...that's why religious people will enter into hell too if doing such things..but the difference whether get there for eternity or not...and disbelievers will get there for eternity.

    3. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      It's true!  It goes w/o saying!  "Innate" because we were "...created in His Image..." which is Righteousness yet form our opinions based on acceptable behavior in environment, society and/or religion!

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      WOW!  I'm blessed!  Author deleting!  Must be too effective always coming from the Word of God!

      Thanks for allowing me to voice "Freedom of Speech!"

    5. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "...and disbelievers will get there for eternity."  Haha!  Any "believer" who reiterates this is well and truly hooked by the evangelist's banter.  Exit sensible, individual thought; enter dogma and make-believe. Engender fear.

    6. profile image0
      PeterStipposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Big smile."..and disbelievers Will get there for eternity". So your God discriminates And you do trust such a God?How do you know that She will not also discriminate red heads or people with brown eyes.The bible does not say explicitly they are not.

    7. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete: It's time u look at Bible again!  There's a NEW COVENANT in which (Gal 3:28) "..there is neither Jew nor Greek...for we are all ONE in Christ Jesus!"  It's time u take another look!

  24. profile image60
    TheBeeCharmerposted 3 years ago

    You simply tell the child it's not acceptable for people to display that behavior as it hurts people mentally and physically and is not socially accepted by society. It will make them an outcast and any children that come from the relationship would be out cast and genetically weaker with alot of very serious illnesses. This is not to say it is even unlawful in some countries and some states in the united states and that it can get you thrown in jail as well.
    It is possible for those relationships not to create sick children but very rarely and the people are really lucky. There is nothing in any religion that says anything on this. That I know of its heavily discouraged for the genetics issue and the title of social outcast as well as possible local laws. I hope this answered you question as it has satisfied alot of tiny people who have asked questions about relationships and the whys and wherefores of social ettiquette.

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "There is nothing in any religion (Bible) that says anything on this."  Bible differs!  Scripture says in Lev 18:6 "None of you shall "approach to ANY that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness:  I am the LORD!"

      GOD:"Corr those n error"

    2. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, please look this up:  http://hill-kleerup.org/blog/2012/06/13 … lties.html
      Is there anyone in HubPages that follows any of these laws?  Please tell us if we will be burned alive or caste out from...?

    3. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The Mosaic Laws have been "fulfilled" under the New Covenant UNLESS "carried over" - "AFTER THE CROSS!" Why one needs to read ALL of His Word to "rightly divide" His Sayings!  No one needs to "follow any of these laws" unless "carr over!"  Study!

  25. Thief12 profile image90
    Thief12posted 3 years ago

    The premise of the question is wrong, so I won't even bother with the question. Atheists can be moral. I consider myself a Christian, but assuming that "morality" came to be just because of God and Christianity is, to put it mildly, an ignorant and narrow-minded point of view.

    1. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Being a "Christian" is "believing" ALL of His Word! If so, u forgot Isaiah 45:7 He (GOD aka Jesus) "...do ALL these things!"

    2. jlpark profile image81
      jlparkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And you forget Norine, judge lest ye be judged. So are you following all of what you believe he has written or just pointing out the parts that other people aren't following?

    3. Thief12 profile image90
      Thief12posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder how many atheists you know in real life...

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      JL: It means "YOU" judge not but His Word says JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT (Jn7:24) which means ONLY WORD (GOD) judges which I give! I respond to Q's on HP! Don't seek atheist but worked w/25 yrs in Fed Gov! Actions taken into consideration,not belief

  26. passionatelearnr profile image88
    passionatelearnrposted 3 years ago

    Using biology and psychology.inbreeding causes deformities and having physical relations with members of family destroys the structure of family.

  27. ogochukwu1 profile image46
    ogochukwu1posted 3 years ago

    Generally speaking incest is an abomination. It is evil and very wrong. Morally it is an evil thing to do. Every right thinking person would desist it. Religion most times draws us to morality. Yet Christianity is the way of life, it is not religious or a religion.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you OGO, for saying what has been long overdue ! While people think religion is about God, it is but it is more it is who you believe in and president over in your life, who you live for, who you will die for. That is you religion.

    2. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Amen! It's a SPIRITUAL Thing -  AFTER THE CROSS (Jn 14:26;16:13)!

    3. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Christianity is one of the MAJOR religions on the planet, so this assertion is just not accurate.

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What is ur def of Christianity? "Religion? Bcuz if not understanding what the Word says, 1 isn't Christian but headed to heaven n wrong direction! If 1 doesn't KNOW "Spiritual," not a Christian! (Jn 4:24)

    5. jonnycomelately profile image83
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Merriam-Webster Dictionary
      noun re·li·gion
      : the belief in a god or in a group of gods
      : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
      : an interest, a belief, or an activity
      Stop deceiving yourselves

    6. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Jonny your example has limits, that is like saying go view the heavens and you look up at your ceiling and say so what. I do not see anthing. But you have limited your self not past the sky not past heavens.

    7. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: Who is Jonny? U appear "lost" w/post in wrong area!

      AL: Did u notice "Organized belief"= Man's interpretation!
      GET thinks bcuz "man" has estab - it's right="taught" & when Word given differs="revelation" fm "teachings," it's wrong!

    8. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Norine, The humans who INTERPRET the bible are the same species that WROTE the bible...and simply told our ancestors that they were being directed to do so by God. Why do u choose to believe the humans who are long dead over the ones alive today?

    9. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Getitrite, half the world's population that's alive today believe those stories.

      Feel free to read my "God Created Evolution" hubs to see that the bible does actually line up with evidence quite well. There's good reason to believe them.

    10. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      getit why should we not believe what was said, you believe your past genealogy of records of people that are related to you
      You believe that the records of science has cures for the cures of common diseases
      And the bible records are no different

    11. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Get: "Blind faith" as u call has produced more than this world ever has!  I've tried practically ALL, no prevail, until JESUS!  I would have no problem "believing" one today if aligned w/WORD! Some have part of His Doctrine but not ALL!

  28. Civu Monset profile image57
    Civu Monsetposted 3 years ago

    http://web.dizifragmaniizle.org/cilek-k … k-ayrilir/

    Çilek Kokusu 16. Bölüm Fragmanı Sevilen Dizi Çilek Kokusu 16 Bölüm Özeti Konusu Aslı
    Burak'dan Ayrılma Kararı Alır Burak Bu Durum Karşısında Ne Yapacaktır Yeni

  29. ForLoveofCupcakes profile image83
    ForLoveofCupcakesposted 3 years ago

    Do atheists believe in Natural Law?  Because incest goes completely against it.  There can be problems in procreation which is an indicator that something is wrong.

  30. A Thousand Words profile image78
    A Thousand Wordsposted 3 years ago

    LoL. There is no problem discouraging incest. Anybody with a basic knowledge of genetics knows why we shouldn't do it. wink However, there are religious and non-religious alike who still do it, anyway...

  31. Troy C. profile image60
    Troy C.posted 3 years ago

    I think there is a seed of righteousness planted in every human heart. So a person doesn't have to be a believer to be moral. They just  have to believe  to be saved.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Belief is the beginning to be saved, like you can believe you have a Job, but if you do not work your belief out in works
      You may become unemployed. Fired! The scriptures says at Jas 2:17So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.is clear

    2. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      K&T: "Works" r under the law! If u blv HS "leads & guides us," (Jn:14:26;16:13), Who's "working?" U've "Lil Faith" n Holy Spirit!  "Faith w/o Works (fm Holy Spirit) is dead!" U can't save urself-only HS!

      Study+Blv+Faith=Holy Spirit WORKS=Re

    3. Troy C. profile image60
      Troy C.posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So true, we must not just know the word but be doers of the word as well."Practice  what we preach" Amen

    4. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      TW: U say "true," then expect 1 to "DO" contradicts Holy Spirit & New Covenant! No chg-No Holy Spirit producing evidence to "MAN" (who cares) for GOD looks @ the heart!

  32. Glenis Rix profile image98
    Glenis Rixposted 3 years ago

    Simple. It's a fact that incest vastly increases the likelihood of the outcome of a child with genetic abnormalities. That is why the taboo against incest developed.

  33. TessSchlesinger profile image93
    TessSchlesingerposted 3 years ago

    Atheists base their ethics on the behaviour that leads to the greatest good for the greatest number over the longest period of time. The outcome of children born in incestuous relationships are genetically deformed, consequently that is a terribly tragedy for all. Based on that, it is unethical.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I understand what you are saying , atheist base there morals
      On experiences and outcome as you have listed,  makes, sense, but we have a helper to avoid the worse ahead , like traffic creeping  because an accident is ahead. So you avoid that Avenue

    2. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I agree K&T! Now let's ask HS to "reveal" Jesus is God! I Tim 3:16 "God was manifested in flesh" SPIRIT can do that not people! ONE SPIRIT!  Postman sending sender's ltr=2 people! We're talking GOD (Omnipresent SPIRIT) simultaneous if desired!

  34. profile image54
    peter565posted 3 years ago

    Moral is an abstract ideology concept.  There isn't an exact right or wrong answer of what qualify as moral and what don't. 

    One should be encourage to strive to be a moral person, but not necessary. 

    (1) As human been we should be respect to other's different, thus respect others right of freedom providing they don't hurt others, effect another's freedom, endanger society or conduct treason.

    (2) As human we are doing no evil, as long as we do not violate harmony and the only behavior that qualify as violate harmony is those who fall under the category of effecting another's freedom, hurting others, endanger society or conduct treason.

    Thus as human, you do no evil, if you live according to the two principle above.

    Thus the government has the right to make law to protect the freedom of the people within its nation, protect the people within the nation from been hurt, maintain social order and deal with threat to the state.  But that is it.  If the government's law or policy surpass the two above, then the government is doing evil.

    When necessary, every citizen has the responsibility to pitch in, whether it is to be drafted or to pay taxes, in service to protect the country, society, to protect people of the society from been harm and to defend the freedom of its people.  You are not doing evil, for not living up to such responsibility, but you are been irresponsible. 

    What sort of violation of harmony should not be allow, should be determine by justice and law, which of course, walk a blurry line and everybody have different opinion (e.g. I think it is alright to use those guilty of organized crime, as state own slaves [labor slave, sex slave, gladiators etc.] but most people don't think so)

    Thus the law should not persecuted against one, for violating any school of moral value.  Nor should it force people to follow any school of moral value.  By doing so, the government is at fault, not unless when violating such school of moral, one fail one of the two principles above and even then, the government might still be at fault, because it might not be just, to force one to follow such moral, even if it violate one of the two. 

    In regards to moral itself, one should be encourage to be moral, but not force.  And as I said, there are many school of moral value out there and there isn't an exact right answer.

    1. profile image54
      peter565posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      PS: Thus don't worry about not been moral. Worry about failing these two principle. After you have lived up to these two principle you can worry about been moral.

    2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image85
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think that's entirely true that morality is an abstract  ideological concept. Like music. Everyone is in such agreement as to what sounds right and what doesn't, that we're able to assign very particular rules around it. Music theory.

    3. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete&JC: "Principles, abstract ideological concept," whatever but is not worthy of debate if you know the Holy Spirit who "leads & guides" one into ALL truth!  Unless 1 is just bored & has nothing to do but debate

    4. profile image54
      peter565posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      That is assuming if your god is even real.

    5. profile image55
      Norine Williamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Pete: Precisely what I've been trying to tell u, "That's for me to KNOW, and u to find out!"

  35. profile image33
    truthphilosopherposted 3 years ago

    Playing the devils advocate here...

    If incest occurs, without the purpose or risk of child birth - why is it immoral?

  36. RLWalker LM profile image74
    RLWalker LMposted 3 years ago

    With the reason that it is a biological perversion. It destroys the familial relationship between siblings or parent and child and will create great emotional distress if one chooses to do it.

    If a person is raised and nurtured to any proper degree that should be enough that discouragement from the prospect wouldn't even be necessary for most because it would never become a prospect.

    On the other hand there are cases were religion itself has encouraged incest, rape and straight up pedo behaviour. If I had this problem on my hands, I doubt religion would be on my list of possible solutions.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      RLW, you have spoken some truth, but also remember there is good medicine , and bad medicine , if you are sick and there is a cure
      Would you say I do not take medicine because it is bad and caused people problems,  So -

    2. RLWalker LM profile image74
      RLWalker LMposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I would say not to take bad medicine when it is not necessary or when good medicine is available. Isn't the first rule of medicine to do no harm or something like that?

    3. Kiss andTales profile image78
      Kiss andTalesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The example of  medicine is to say , there was a time pure worship was good medicine,  it motivated people to real , love of neighbor , family , love of self,
      Because the bible is about humans and
      How to be happy.
      It in general is not for God.

  37. DWDavisRSL profile image78
    DWDavisRSLposted 3 years ago

    How an atheist would discourage incest would depend quite a bit on that atheists understanding of genetics and inherited characteristics. Incest has long been treated as sinful by various religions because of the health implications inherent in inbreeding. Undesirable traits get passed and strengthened from generation to generation when familial lines get entangled resulting in birth defects, still births, and miscarriages. The likelihood of many ailments such as cystic fibrosis, kidney disease, muscular dystrophy and hemophilia just to name a few.

    What started out as a common sense custom against inbreeding (incest) became law as humans became more civilized, and became religious prohibition as humans developed religion in their attempt to explain the universe.

    However, an educated atheist would not need religion to know incest was a bad idea.

 
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