Where was Jesus in the three days before He rose again?

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gracefaithposted 14 years ago
I am not sure where Jesus was in the 3 days following His crucifixion before He rose again. Some say Hell. I did not think God could be in the presence of sin in that way, but as Jesus was separated from the Father at that time and also carrying the full weight of sin, is it probable that He was in Hell defeating the Devil? What does the scriptural evidence say?

Thanks folks,

Grace and peace,

Fiona
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1. 61
  milynch43posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was dead for three days. (Gen.3:19, Eccl.9:5, Psalm 146:4. Look at the Lazarus example, John 11:11-14 and palm 13:3. As for hell it comes from the Hebrew word, she'ohl and the Greek equivalent hai'des referred to the common grave of mankind. See Psalms 146:4 and Ezek 18:4.
  Jesus laid dead for 3 days and then was resurrected, not transformed. If the dead are tormented eternally for their sins, then how can we reconcile that with the scriptures. Eccl.9:5 . Many religions have twisted the early text to suit their needs.
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The scriptures say he was dead. they also say "the dead know nothing."
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He was in the ground. He rose up on the 3rd day to stand by his dad. May we light a candle in his memory. He died for us. He forgave the people who killed him on the cross.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why is it that whenever I read stuff like that, I always get the impression most believers don't get their beliefs from the bible, but instead from Charles Heston.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was Hell alright. We had a Hell of a time !
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend watchya
  
  Undobtedly; but the Creator- God Allah YHWH saved his life against all odds; and he was treated in the tomb by his friends. Later he migrated to India. If you think just on this miracle of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; you cannot remain a Skeptic in doubts or an Atheist in confusion.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  India was awesome ! After being 3 days in Hell, we continue the Hell tour there . I would never even dream of being skeptic, after having such a great time !
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend watchya
  
  So the hell is in India. None of us here in this forum knew it before; They say India is the biggest democracy; so you have visited hell. How much time did you stay in the hell?
  
  Tell us about the Skepticism, instead
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never said India was Hell. We continued the Hell tour. Hell tours are incredibly awesome ! We people made them ,not the Countries. Anyway, democracies are a bit hellish, don't you agree ?
  Skepticism? I don't know about that. I'm never skeptic. I'm always on the move. What about you ?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  gosh you must have 165 IQ! your sort is scary to talk to in person.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  gosh, such a pristine soul forumized...you've changed man.
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  Raja1944posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Majority of Indians are idol worshippers and Muslim terrorists. Both religion have ready ticket to hell!
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was sent to the Jewish nation, the OT tells us that specifically as does the NT.. Jesus' intent was to ascend to the father after his resurrection "to sit on the right hand of God", that is stated in the OT and the NT also.
  There is no reason that Jesus would go to india. Is this what koran teaches you. It's rubbish.
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  jacobkuttytaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As per the gospel of John 20:10Then the disciples went back to their homes, 11but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
  
  13They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"
  
  "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." 14At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
  
  15"Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?"
  Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
  
  16Jesus said to her, "Mary."
  She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).
  
  17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
  
  From the above we could understand that he was not with the Father.
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  since it's all shamelessly made up, it's whatever your imagination wants it to be.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, he was with me those wonderful 3 days !
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  he was at Ceasers palace in vegas but we;ll never know because
  
  what happens in vegas, stays in vegas
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Hell" is believed to be a place where people who have died but not yet decided to believe in and accept Jesus as the Son of God, and the redeemer and saviour of their eternal spirit, are kept.
  Hell is not the place of eternal damnation that satan and his followers will end up in, that is "The Firey Pit"
  
  It is believed that Jesus descended into this "Hell" to offer the opportunity of belief in himself as the defeater over satan and over death, and to offer to all of the souls, from Adam until the day of Jesus death, the opportunity for freedom by accepting and believing in Jesus.
  
  Brother Dave.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He went to hell to free the spirits of Moses, Daniel, and all those who believed in God, but died before Christ could grant them forgiveness.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  `ello stranger!
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
1 Peter 4:6
Jesus never diverted from His ministry. When His spirit left the body from the cross He entered the realm of spirits where we all go. It is there during those days that He organized the mission effort among the more righteous of all the spirits. With that effort He commissioned them to go out and preach to those who reside in darkness as to the spirit.

This was an epic and pivotal fulcrum in the eternal line of man. Why? Because this is how we are equally judged. We are judged with our thoughts and actions while in the body, yet balanced with the eternal knowledge of God that we have acquired in life as well as in death. It is epic because now, even in the bonds and chains of death, the dead now have agency and freedom to learn and choose as we do in life. We owe this freedom, which now spans beyond and in spite of the grave, to the Savior Jesus Christ.

The He was resurrected to establish His ministry on the western hemisphere.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Just where is this spirit realm? Or is this just a total fabrication to trick everyone into believing you know something we don't? I think a more approriate answer is: Jesus never rose from the dead, because that is impossible. The whole nonsensical story was made up by deceitful men to trick a gullible society.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The story was actually lifted from previous religions.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love how so many state this as a fact when they won't even think that it might be possible that it was the other way around.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Probably because the story was written 2500 years or more before Jesus.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Even if you pointed him to the source, he would still deny it.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who was the first man? Do you think God did not plan anything until after Jesus was born? God has always wanted a relationship with man. God wanted to have talks with man and He did in the Garden of Eden with Adam.
  
  The question now is, did God know that Jesus was going to be born of a virgin from the beginning and let someone know?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats reaching pretty far SirDent.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think so. The hand of God is not short that it cannot reach wherever He wants to reach. Likewise the Word of God has always been seetled in Heaven. it actually makes perfect sense.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you actually know it was written that long before Jesus? Whose word do you take over God's?
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love this comment!
  
  Sumerians, Babylonians - am I somewhere on the right track here?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  According to the scripture you read, Yahshua's Spirit never left his body.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Hi friends

Jesus never died a cursed death on the Cross in the first place; so there is no question of his resurrection from the dead.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with parrsurrey on this one. I don't believe Jesus died on the Cross, however, parrsurrey and I have different reasons for believing this, ummm I think...
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mythbuster
  
  We may have different opinions and reasons; it is understandable.
  
  Thanks
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see you still haven't read the New Testament.
  You would have clearly seen that it declares, without question or ambiguity, that Jesus ROSE from the dead (according to the Scriptures).
  It was foretold that it would happen. It's called Prophecy.
  
  But, if you believed that Jesus rose from the dead you would become a Christian, which you clearly are not. So, you must deny, to keep your faith intact.
  It's all quite logical.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He obviously went to India to check out the cricket matches. Where else would he go?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Just like you must deny that Allah is God to keep your faith intact. I's all quite logical.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely.
  I guess you are no different either.
  You deny God, in general, to keep your faith intact.
  See, we're not so different after all.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I don't deny God, I deny superstitious, outdated nonsense. Your view of God is absurd.
  
  I don't have faith, but go ahead and twist everything to fit your delusion.
  
  You somehow believe that a man, born of a virgin, died on the cross, and then came back to life. Tell me, how many times have you seen this happen with your own eyes? Yet you want to compare your delusion with reason. Funny. !
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think God needs a do over?
  
  God does things right the first time. He is not a man that makes mistakes over and over.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Then why did He see fit to drown the entire human population(excluding Noah, et al) and start over. And why did He need to kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden. That's not getting it right the first time, that's incompetence. It seems like God is a hopeless blunderer that never gets it right. True?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Men became evil and violent. Their hearts were evil continually. Nothing about God's heart being evil.
  
  But Noah found grace in the eyes of God. God spared someone whose heart was toward Him and His enemies, He destroyed.
  
  Adam disobeyed God and ate something that caused him harm. It was his own choice to do so or not. That tells me that Adam is at fault.
  
  Men have blamed God for everything bad. They say God should not have allowed that tree to be there. Just like Adam, who blame the woman for his own choice, men blame God for theirs.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  SirDent, please! If I made a bicycle that was faulty, would it be the bike's fault or mine? And if I'm omniscient, how could I possibly get it wrong?
  
  I know your response already.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you know my response already, why did you even ask?
  
  Who do you blame for your errors in judgement?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Because everytime someone points out how dumb your God is, you use the term "free will" Is that not true? What a slick way to blame your God's incompetence on poor humans.
  
  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
  
  I blame ME for my errors in judgment.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  So you ask just so you can trap me and everyone will see how dumb I am?
  
  If you blame yourself for your errors, why blame God for everyone else's errors?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  If your BS about God creating me were true, then, yes, I would have to blame your God. But see your God is nonsense and false, so I have to accept blame.
  
  Does that clear your distortion?
  
  SirDent, I am not trying to make you look dumb or trap you. Why the paranoia? I want to actually see you triumph, but you need to bring an intelligent argument to the table. Please don't ask me to respect untrue and illogical answers as valid responses.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this what you think..that mankind was made faulty?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And God knew they would sin, therefore He predestined Himself to come as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world (Rev 13:8). Abel knew to sacrifice a lamb from the get-go, which was pleasing to God; God provided a ram for Abraham as an acceptable sacrifice; the Jews sacrificed a lamb once a year after they were set free from Egypt (due to lamb's blood being wiped on their doorposts to cause the death angel to "pass over" their homes). This was all a foreshadow of the final Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, who forever accomplished God's requirement for sin. Anyone who believes in Him and loves Him will be saved, as planned from the beginning (Eph 1:5).
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am amazed at everyone's misunderstanding about the meaning of this.
  This is coming from those who refuse to learn anything from others.
  
  "Adam ate something"?
  "People say the Tree shouldn't have been there"?
  
  Wow! Sad and funny at the same time!
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  someonewhoknowsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here is a link to a website all about life after death
  
  http://www.victorzammit.com/
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  Imabeliever12posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You believe you have cells in your hand and yet you can not see them? As an intelligent person of the 21st century surely you must believe that miracles evolve like technology! Our miracles today in medicine we can and cant see with our eyes have evolved with time. Healing the sick with a touch, rising from the dead all miracles told by witnesses from stories handed down in a book. It is your lack of Faith that blinds you from seeing that miracles exist and can be seen or not see by ones eyes but also seen by faith.
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  QualitySposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow and double wow. The crufiction is a pretty well established fact in history. I do believe that much of the the new testament was changed in translations and agendas of the writers.
  
  As far as the people that profess to know the mind of God, I say how arrogant. We want to belive there is someone at the helm of the ship. We invent this for our need but can not support it no matter how loud we shout.
  This arrogance on many levels causes war and fighting. How stupid that something that should promote love and peace is perverted.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is only when we attempt to add to the word of God that problems arise.
  
  for over 1600 years people have been adding to the scripture and interpreting those additions that we then say this is the word of God. and then they are interpreted again and before long no one actually remembers what the origional message was.
  
  Or something like that.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually - it is only when you assume the word of god in the first place that problems arise.......
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Do you have some non-biblical references for that?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually, Mark, there are non-biblical records from Roman writers -primarily satirists. Go figure.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ey, its too early for this and yet I missed ticket sales in times square to read it!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HA! What tickets are you buying/selling on a drizzly Wednesday?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i was hoping for Wicked, i think my little daughter is ready for it. 20 dollars! ah well...maybe saturday, or maybe I'll pay 150 for real tickets.
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  jamesbrownbeteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm interested of those non-biblical references.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lucian of Samosata, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallus and most notably Josephus.
  
  http://www.nelsonprice.com/index.php/?p=105
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All of these mentioned were born after the time of Jesus except Josephus whose writings were corrupted hundreds of years later by religious advocates. Entire passages were inserted into his works to bolster the lack of evidence concerning the existence of Jesus.
  
  No authentic records contain any mention of Jesus!
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dfagerposted 14 years ago
I know that at my church, in The Apostles Creed, we say Jesus descended into hell. I always thought it was because Jesus carried the sin of the world into hell. He was the only one who could do such a feat because he was the sacrificial Lamb of God, the only worthy sacrifice. However, it wasn't the hell described in Revelation, a lake of fire.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  The Christians don't care for their Jesus; they won't cease sinning, such is their love/lust for sins, even if they have to kill and send Jesus to hell. What a weird love they have for their god? Jesus needed no enemy; the "Christians" were/are sufficient for him as their enmity to him.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You could say the same for muslims. Sunni and Shiite muslims are constantly killing each other even though they both profess to believe n the same God.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's right.
  I notice he didn't come back to answer that one.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you never do anything wrong? You are upright and perfect?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  Did I claim anything like that? I think I said here that I am a sinful man.
  
  Thanks
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  So what "hell" was it?
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tobey100posted 14 years ago
Chicago, leastwise he was if he descended into hell.
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GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years ago
I always thought he arose as a zombie. Guess I'm mistaken. Makes sense though, no undead hordes to worry about present day...
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waynetposted 14 years ago
He was eating easter eggs the sly barsteward!
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm going to leave this mortal plane now, and when I resurrect--I better see colored eggs and chocolate bunnies."
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
The story of Jesus is pure plagiarism. Plain and simple. Borrowed from other religions before it just as the muslims did with Judaism and the Jews did with The Epic Of Gilgamesh by the ancient babylonians.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Yawn" More Gerald Massey nonsense.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This isnt from Gerald Massey. This is from history. When confronted with facts you have no reply. Dont worry. You werent the first or wont be the last to be sold a dream.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I have seen no facts. I have seen assumptions and claims to facts.
  
  At the same time, what I wrote is disregarded. So whose facts are right and whose are wrong?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here are some facts for you SirDent.
  
  Horus Jesus
  Virgin Birth Virgin Birth
  Son of God Son of God
  Mother: Isis-Meri Mirriam, now is Mary
  Fosterfather: Seb(means Joseph) Joseph
  Fosterfathers ancestry: Royal descent Royal descent
  Anunciation:By an angel to his mother \By an angel to his mother
  Birth heralded by: Star Star
  Birth anouncement: By angels By angels
  Birth witnesses: Shepherds Shepherds
  Later birth witnesses:3 solar deities 3 wise men
  
  Death threat during infancy:
  Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Herod did the same to Jesus
  
  Handling the threat:
  The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child."
  An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
  
  Rite of passage ritual:
  Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored.
  Jesus was taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.
  
  Age at time of ritual: Both were 12 years old
  
  Break in life history:No data between ages of 12 & 30 for either one.
  
  Baptism location: In the river for both.
  
  Baptism age. 30 for both
  
  Baptized by:Horus was baptised by Anup the Baptizer
  Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist. Both baptisers were beheaded.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Hokey
  
  Jesus was not beheaded; he esacped and went to India; this is mentioned in Hindu and Buddhist books.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was talking about John the Baptist.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Hokey
  
  Have you got a secular and historic proof that John the Baptist was beheaded?
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only from the bible which is just as unreliable as the Quran
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is there any possibility that this is all fabrications that were made after Jesus death but subscribed to an earlier time? All doubt must be removed completely before anyone can call it authentic.
  
  God has always been and always will be. His plan was first before anything was created.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Archeology is an interesting topic, SirDent, it doesn't fabricate anything that happened in the past, but merely brings it to our attention.
  
  There's no requirement to doubt your faith even if your faith was copy/pasted from another religion.
  
  Repeating that over and over should remove any facts that would stand in your way.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Archaeology can only go back as far as what is found. What was here before what they find?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, what is found shows your religion to be built almost entirely from another religion, and at the very least makes your religion wrong. You can debate all you want about whether or not the religion your religion was built upon is right or not, but that is entirely another debate.
  
  This one appears to be settled.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why this is a one way street Dent?
  
  You have been given factual evidence that an earlier religion was the basis for your own. You own religion is peppered with doubts and there are dozens of differing versions yet still you prefer to lie to yourself. You should ask the Mormon what he thinks LOL - And they are calling themselves Christians - just like you. Elohim was a normal man who worked his way up to godhood.
  
  your religion was stolen from previous religions. Christmas, Easter - all the major holidays are pagan and your religion usurped them.
  
  But - all doubt must be removed. How does one remove this doubt Dent? What would you accept as removal of doubt. Seeing as you are calling all archeology a lie and suggesting that the Myth of Horus was retroactively written - presumable with the intention of casting a slur on your own belief system?
  
  So - in good Kristian fashion - rather than be accepting of information that is given to you - you are accusing other people of lying - or at best - being incapable of doing their jobs correctly. And you still don't understand why your religion is despised?
  
  Why don't you do some investigating of your own? There is more than enough proof that the facts given to you are true. I am sure that you will also be able to find lots of evangelical religionists who claim to have proof that it is all a lie to discredit the one true religion. Lying for Jesus seems to be perfectly acceptable behavior as far as I can tell.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on! People needs to know more about 'The Epic of Gilgamesh', but alas!... we sell more bibles & Qurans than research documents
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Rochelle Frankposted 14 years ago
This is sincere question-- and one I have wondered about:
If Jesus was in the tomb for three days, why does it say he was crucified on Friday, placed in the tomb before sundown, not seen on Saturday, and arose early Sunday? Isn't that two days or one and a half?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I think it was an egregious oversight on the part of the charlatans that wrote this nonsense.
  
  Also. In Genesis 1:16, God did not create the sun until after the third day. How could this be? Isn't there no day without the earth's rotation around the sun?
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  waynetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You've unravelled the mystery, it's all a load of tosh, still at least we can eat easter eggs!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is a valid question that does not need to be passed ofer; For Jesus said that he would be in the ground 3 days and 3 nights as was Johna in the belly of the whale.
  
  It seems that people do not know what things are important in figureing "it" out and what is so much more jiberish" to argue about.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that what it says? Hmmm
  What book are you reading?
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
If the bible is viewed as an inerrant book, free of error, whose authors were inspired by God, then one would suspect that a massive fraud must have taken place. The events really formed part of Jesus' life because the Bible is free of error. Somehow the events were also attributed to Horus in Egypt for many centuries before Jesus' birth.

If the Bible is viewed as a historical document, like other cultures' holy books, then it is obvious that events in Jesus' life were copied from stories that had been associated with Horus for many centuries before Jesus' birth. The events are fictional. Probably none actually happened in reality.

After removing these myths from the Gospel, there would be not much left of the stories other than an an account of: An exceptional Jewish itinerate preacher and native healer who had an uneventful birth,
Who, at the age of about 35 gathered a small group of followers and toured the Galilee,
Spread a type of reform Judaism that matched the teachings of Hillel from the first century BCE,
Was convicted of aggravated assault in the Jerusalem temple, and
Was routinely executed for treason by the occupying Roman army, along with thousands of others in the first century CE.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And Mithras was the first one ever born. He was bron from a rock, but he also had two shepherds help him to be born. It makes perfect sense doesn't it?
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SirDentposted 14 years ago
Just to let everyone know, I am going offline for a few hours to try and get some work done here. I will be back later this evening or tonight.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Where was Jesus in the three days before He rose again?

Hi friends

When you will concentrate on three days; you will see that Jesus as per Bible did not remain for three days and three night in the tomb he was layed in; they will change this time period and those who maintain it, they will change the day Jesus was crucified.

Please count the three days and three nights; starting from Friday.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello friend Ahmadi. Jesus died Wednesday. There is no record in Bible He died Friday. From practicality the Church has memorial day Fridays, it does not change the fact.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  okay,
  
  A. do you understand that week of Passover had two Sabbaths?
  B. it states three days -a day is twelve hours.
  C. The first DAY of the week is? Sunday or the day after Sabbath.
  
  Let's count:
  
  Fri-DAY
  Satur-DAY
  Sun-DAY ( the first day )
  thus fulfilling the prophecy -and the entrance of the new creation- the first day.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Where was Jesus in the three days before He rose again?

Hi friends

Jesus never got resurrected.
Jesus never died on the Cross; it is for this that his friends cared to obtain his body from the Roman Officials; then they took him hurriedly to a solitary tomb; spacious and airy enough for his treatment.

The essence of the Sign of Johan was that he entered in the belly of fish alive, remained there alive and came out alive; how could then against it Jesus could enter in the tomb dead. Jesus remained in the tomb and under treatment as many days as he had the enough energy to move about.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your Jesus is dead. Warship death if you want.
  
  My Jesus is alive and is alive forevermore. I will follow Him.
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Lady Roseposted 14 years ago
When Jesus was agonizing, he took time to love the good thief and he told him ¨today you will be with me in Paradise¨. In another verse ot says that Jesus was witnessing to the spirits of the ones in prison under the Earth. We know that after His resurrection there were aparitions of all kinds of dead people coming out of their tombs.
Jesus went to Paradise, which meant purgatory or a place where people were waiting, to bring them Salvation. Those who accepted him were saved and went to Heaven. Probably the thief too.
Those spirits were the people who had died since the begining of times till Jesus crucifixion.
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aguasilverposted 14 years ago
Just a general comment to those who deny Christ and His death and resurrection:

1 John 2:22-23

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

John
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andromidaposted 14 years ago
I just know Jesus was a human being and he is going to come back as written some holy books.God can tell us only where he was in those 3 days before resurrection.I am sure about that his teachings are more important than arguing about anything like resurrection.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend andromida
  
  Jesus' Second Coming has happened in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908; no-one is going to come my friend from the skies. Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India; he was neither a god nor a son of god, and human beings when they die , they don't come again in the world.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, like I said an antichrist....
  
  Why would a 'peaceful Muslim' wish to say such words against the leader and founder of a belief system that encompasses 2.5 billion souls?
  
  Can you imagine the outcry and possible 'fatwa' that would follow saying such lies against the prophet Mohammed?
  
  John
  
  Someone who knows Christ, and more significantly, someone who Christ knows....
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  DYLAN CLEARFIELDposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus spent part of this time in hell. The reason he was there was to release the people who shouldn't have been there - more like Purgatory. When he visited hell Jesus bathed the environment with so much light that all of the evil that resided there could not function and had to hide or in some way avert their gazes. See the gospel of Nicodemus.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend aguasilver
  
  I mentioned in line with the Prophecy of Muhammad; he mentioned of Jesus' Coming as one of his caliphs at end of times. Advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 is an evidence that Jesus and Muhammad were truthful Prophets Messengers of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. This also proves that Muhammad was the Seal of Prophets; as in his character and Word of Revelation lies the proof of a truthful prophet; that is why we belive that Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus were truthful Prophets Messengers.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not intend to show you disrespect. However I am going to examine and challenge your doctrine.
  
  If Yahshua has returned for the second time and he came back as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, doesn't that mean that all the Muslims and really everyone missed out on his second coming.
  
  And if he did return..what good did it do? In all of the Muslim countries isn't there still killing, illness, starvation and suffering? Isn't it true that these things still exist all over the world? Where is the renewed heaven and earth?
  
  At least Yahshua taught and showed love yet your Messiah states it is OK to kill the infidel. At least Yahshua will do away with all suffering.
  
  Those who believe in Yahshua want a leader who brings better things.
  
  I am a peaceful Infidel
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  Well then where is Jesus Yahshua? Jesus was no god or son of god; he was a Messenger Prophet only; and he did not die on the Cross. Jesus survived and went to India to spread his Message from the Creator-God Allah YHWH among the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel who resided there. He did his job well there and died naturally and peacefully there. Like Elijah nobody is going to come from the sky or heaven. Everyone is born from a mother and father here very naturally. Jews are waiting for their Moshiach for more than 2000 years. Do you want to be one like them?
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't answer my question.
  
  I never said Yahshua was coming from the sky.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  Then from where he would come?
  
  Thanks
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you don't know the answer to my question.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  I think I have given answer your question. if one remains unanswered; it would be answered.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  It always starts with one person and then spreads to other regions; with love and whith no compulsion. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 was told by the Creator- God Allah YHWH, that peaceful Ahmadiyya Islam would reach the corners of the Earth in 300 years time; and by all the religous history it is in the progress; though numbers are not that important.
  
  Jamaat Ahmadiyya has spread over the globe in over 170 countries and is 50 million strong (2003 statistics).
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Did killing, illness, starvation and suffering finish in the world with the firat coming of Buddha,Krishna, Elijah and Jesus?
  
  These things still exist; even then all the above persons are truthful and considered saviours of the human beings. If they did not finish them in their first Coming; why it would be finished in their Second Coming.
  
  For centuries nobody new about Jesus in Japan,China, Australia,Africa and scores of Island in the world.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, the internet was down then. Did they know about Muhammadism and the Islamic conquering armies?
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  andromidaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean Jesus came back as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in Kahmir,then I guess only a few people in Kahsmir will even not considering him Jesus,why they call him Mirza ghulam.In Michael Jackson comes back once again, shall call him "Mirza Gulam Jakson" or MJ. A great spiritual like Jesus came back and died, but there was no fight with him with the Antichrist. Where is Antichrist now, i think he also died with jesus.all are just nothing but baseless crap No Muslim believe in your ideology,and who come even you call yourself a Muslim.thank you.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The bible that I read does not mention where Jesus was between the age of 13 and 30. So.. Anything might be true .
Still hearing of different possibilities can be interesting.

I have often wondered where else he might have been visiting during the 40 days after the crucifixion that Jesus is said to have occasionally visited his disciples?

Again, hearing different possibilities are interesting.

===========
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try reading some history. Anything might be true.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea that's right.. anything might be true.
  
  And maybe everything ??
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  The Bible does not say it outright, but it gives hints enough to know where He was between age 12 and 30.
  
  He was known around Jerusalem as the carpenter's son. If He had disappeared for 18 years the people would have forgotten about Him.
  
  He taught in the temple daily, as was His custom.
  
  You also have to recall that the pharisees were astonished at His knowledge when he was 12.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are probably correct. It just seemed that when he walked around choosing the 12 disciples that no one knew who he was.
  And I thought that the priests in the temple had to ask who he was. It just seems as though Jesus the teacher suddenly apeared around town one day.
  Just a feeling that I had.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He would say, "Follow me." No one asked who He was. They left everything and followed Him.
  
  The only thing I can think of is that they didn't ask who he was, but who He thought He was. He would heal and do miracles on the Sabbath and tnhat was a no-no to the pharisees. He also forgave sins and they thought He blasphemed in doing so.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you to a great extent that we should only worry about those things that concern us. It doesn't really matter if Jesus grew up (12 thru 30) in Nazerith or traveled the globe.
  The things that pertain to us personally should be our biggest concerns.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLOL And you know this becoz.......... ?
  
  O wait - u maid it up to fit.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your lies keep getting thinner and thinner. Have you lost your touch?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - you are calling me a liar? Please feel free to back that up with proof that LOL Jesus LOL preached "as was his custom" for 13 or so years.
  
  Or were you lying?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
  
  Luk 21:37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - so for 13 years he preached and the "chief of the people" sought to destroy him for 13 years? What a bunch of wimps. Odd that no one ever anywhere ever remembers this carpenter. No one.
  How odd that Horus is so poorly remembered.
  
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Here is the proof.
  
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LeanManposted 14 years ago
If he had any sense he was in a bar relaxing with a cold beer and a hot woman!
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Did no one know Jesus was purported to be the Messiah during the time between his recorded temple incident and almost two decades later? If they did, even as a child there would have been masses of people trying to get a glimpse of him.

Perhaps this is why he traveled afar with his uncle, Mary's brother, as some sources contend. His uncle being Joseph of Arimathea, the owner of the large tomb where Jesus was taken after the crucifixion.

If Jesus had been treated the same as common citizens, he would have been left on the cross until his body was terribly decomposed.

Surely God would have thought ahead and made sure there was no doubt about his son's death. I mean, you go to so much trouble of sacrificing your son to prove how much you love your imperfect creations and then leave doubt?

After all, God could could have restored the body of Jesus just as easily as he restored his life, right? As it is, he was removed from the cross early and spirited away under cover of darkness. Bribes to guards were very common and there's no actual proof he was ever really dead. A soldier would know exactly where and how deep to plunge his spear without causing death

And something else is puzzling to me. Who set up the whole sacrifice thing? Was it God or was Satan involved too? Or was it a coordinated effort? Anyone?
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Sally's Troveposted 14 years ago
I sometimes think I'd like to learn things from these exchanges in Religion & Beliefs, and so I follow these topics now and again. But I see the same people, postures, arguments, and challenges (not necessarily intellectual challenges; often just snide comments that provoke catty or thoughtless argument), and it bores me.

With all that said, I do take a stand here.

Either Jesus was with God in those three days, plotting out a strategy for the impact that resurrection from the dead would have on the common masses of humanity who had never witnessed such a thing (barring Lazarus)...

...or...

...Jesus never rose again and the whole thing is a myth. Which is actually what I believe, fallen Catholic that I am. Well, actually, he might have arisen again, but perhaps on a chariot commanded by extraterrestrial beings about whom we haven't a clue. And then, how might he have spent those three days?

It occurs to me that the first and second scenarios might be the same.

Humans are cursed with the need to explain things, at the loss of living each day as it comes and for what it is. My recently deceased dog sets a good example for humans. She just wagged her tail, took a treat, engaged in fetch, had a soft bed, good food (would have procreated if she could have), protected the house from whomever might have posed a threat, and that was life. Her good, inquiring, and joyful brain was never befuddled by questions for which there are no answers.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is a human curse to try to make sense of things. Some folks are happy in their ignorance and only need a simple explanation, logical or not, to say "okay."
  
  Others of us have a hard time believing the oral history of men who couldn't agree on what took place thousands of years ago. Especially if you do very much research at all about biblical times.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will catch some flack over this.
  This just poped into my head as I read your post.
  And here it is without giving it much thought.
  Just thinking out loud..
  
  Weve heard the expression, Don't kill the messenger.
  It can be said that Jesus was the messenger...
  He considered his message more important than he did his life. So should we not also have more reverence for his message than for the man? Yes, he was the son of God. And he layed down his life for the message. The essence of who Jesus was is his message. Jesus is said to be "The word" of God
  
  So; which should we worship most? .....
  The word of God or the man that delivered it.
  
  Just a question
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But first one needs some assurance either of them existed. I mean other than hearsay evidence.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone asserting that they are speaking for God should be, automatically, discounted and committed-not worshipped. Isn't that the real answer?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, no! Many who do so are worshiped as a saint, apostle, or some other such title. Some people even give their children poison kool-aid they are so convinced of the speakers validity. Did they go to heaven or hell for listening to the false prophet? What a dilemma for believers!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was honestly asking which would be correct?
  Jesus the son of man or Jesus the word of God?
  And is there a difference?
  
  I would think that Christians should "Worship" the Word of God (the message) and not the man. Cause Jesus said "Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, and that is the father".
  
  I think that this should be the precedent that many Christians has forgotten.
  And some will say that Jesus said that upu can't get to the God but through me.
  I think he was saying; You can't get to God but through the word of God. Otherwise the two quotes above are in disagreement. (I think so)
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hypothetically speaking?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If the "word" was actually God's or those of Jesus you might be right. But the controversy surrounding the origins of both the New and Old Testament, not to mention the scores of other ancient non-included or banished gospels, tends to only confuse the originality and validity of these writings.
  
  Why not just go by the Ten Commandments and not reference the Bible at all? Don't they cover everything?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with the ten commandments is just that. They are commandments.
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  jamesbrownbeteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about the eleventh commandment. Thou shall not spam!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe that is the whole point. Bingo That is the $10,000 question
  It is written that Jesus said that all that we really need to live by was the first two commandments for to do so you will be fulfilling them all.
  
  I also remember that Jesus was BLASTING the scribes and Pharisees calling them sons of Satan and such, and asked. "Why are you making up all of those laws that you do not keep, only to keep everyone else out.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus had a point, whether he ever existed or whether he was actually the son of God. The basic "commandments" were around in the form of tribal laws long before men invented the Christian god.
  
  These were basic laws meant to keep harmony among the tribal members for tens of thousands of years. They were simply "borrowed" to be used for religious purposes. At least this is the most logical explanation. Not sure if "logic" is what you are searching for though.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have been attempting to understand the christian bible all the while attempting to eleminate 100s of misinterpretations.
  
  I think that I have just about gotten that quest accomplished. In my mind, Religion is not teaching what is written.
  
  Some day I may try to figure out in my own mind if Christianity borrowed a MYTH? or possibly adopted a God and the the Myth? possibly repeated itself? For now I'll try to keep an open mind.
  
  But from my own personal experience I am sure that there is a spiritual realm that has reached into my life and touched it.
  A force that has influenced my life that through the centuries people have chosen to call God.
  Evolution? Sure, why not? Five diffrent civilizations on earth before this one? Sure Why not?
  UFO ? Sure why not. All things are possible.
  A million years is too long of a span of time to close my ming against anything thing as being possible. The only thing that my mind is closed to is "NOTHING".
  "Nothing" does not exist."
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  sandieganlizposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Getitrite,
  
  you sound like the men whom condemned Jesus!! (Just to let you know)
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The days of just killing off non-believers is coming to an end and getting harder to maintain.

These days in some parts of some countries you can say there is no god and still live.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow,Earnest! Australia sounds great!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! At least bits of it!
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  TonyAtHubPagesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Except in muslim countries.
  Islam is all about killing off non-believers, family members, themselves and whomever.
  You probably wouldn't live long in one of them saying there's no God, or allah.
  
  But to answer the original question, Jesus was dead.
  
  “I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; ...” (Revelation 1:18 AV)
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad the Roman Catholic church stopped killing folk for dissent, pretty sure I would be dead also and I just dissent to what the RCC believes. Doesn't matter because some evangelicals call me a heretic, so what's new?
  
  But they don't kill you for dissent.
  
  But there are still some countries where believing in Christ can get you killed.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - memories are long and non believers are not prepared to pretend that the 1800 year history of violence by Christians in the name of the Lord never happened. Not really sure what you don't understand about how aggressive and hate filled your christmas story is John. Nor about the historical background to your violent belief system.
  
  But let's be honest here - This is the problem with an irrational belief like yours.
  
  Going around threatening people with the Holy Spirit and eternal damnation - and telling them Jesus is coming back to judge them if they do not kneel to your god will get you killed in some places.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ye gods Mark, we are almost civilised in our discussion!
  
  I lost a good friend last week, guy I grew up with, not seen him for forty years but been in contact by email and making each other laugh whilst enjoying a carefree banter about our differences in belief.
  
  I must tell you that the jury is still out about hell in my book, it's not mentioned in the OT, which you would think God may have mentioned? and it's a RCC adoption way after the event (Christ) changed the rules. My writings here also express that view, so please don't tar me as a hellfire preacher, I know there will be a judgement on all of us at some point, correction, I believe there will be some judgement on all of us.
  
  I suspect that despite your acerbic tongue, you will probably be able to give a good account of your time spent here, and that if you find yourself facing an obvious superior entity, you will have no intellectual block on accepting that you were wrong.
  
  We will NOT find the God that mankind has made in their own image awaiting us, we will find something we could not describe, simply because we are no capable of comprehending His Presence even though He has left us some strong hints as to Who He Is.
  
  So we carry on, and I hope to find other friends who can banter with me, preferably not ones who then die alone in the road with an asthma attack that could have been dealt with, and which I could have told him how to avoid, if I'd even known he suffered from asthma.
  
  Pete McGee, wherever you are now, I hope to see you again, and believe we will again banter, but about what we then know, not surmise.
  
  Sorry Mark, used this to express some feelings, but thanks anyway.
  
  John
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  jamesbrownbeteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Non-believers just seem to live normally. But I don't if they feel that their life is complete.
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thisisoliposted 14 years ago
The pub probably.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  JC did like the occasional grail of vino! Blue Nun, I think!
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that was rather uncalled for in my opinion.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  JC was not an drunker. He spread love and happiness every where he went.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pity his fan club don't do the same.
  
  JC was a gay, alcoholic coward who ran away to India and lived to be 85 years old - according to the evidence I have.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I heard he was a bi-sexual cross-dressing communist infiltrator who was know for being an arsonist. So he moved to India and lived till 85 eh?
  It pays to just bugger off some times doesn't it?
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edjieposted 14 years ago
you did not know snake is symbolize Satan please erase that kind of picture! GOD wants to use your life to his plan!
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I know that superstitious people think so. And no, I like my snake! He will just have to go to plan B, I suppose!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love snakes. It's the smile I think.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They seem to piss off the fundies though! They have faith in the old Garden of Eden thing, I suppose. What was God thinking of making the forbidden fruit so accessible and then telling a woman she couldn't have it? Oh yeah, he wasn't around girls until then.
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In modern Christianity it may symbolize Satan, but by the symbolism of the Caduceus of Hermes it represents healing and the powers of what we have in the depths of ourselves. The two edged sword is that these magnificent and magnetic parts of ourselves which has the ability to heal all that ails us, is also what is alluring and uncontrollable by those that cannot control their sensual urges.
  
  Snakes are great and the connotations of evil are only in the mind of those who cannot control their sensual weaknesses.
  
  Very 'satanic' that the teachings of modern Christianity label our own ability to heal ourselves as evil.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Glad you understand our reptilian friends Jewels.
  It sure helps if you like them in Australia as we sure have plenty to go around.
  I love snakes, beautiful creatures!
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Had an encounter with a few over the years.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not surprised Jewels, you have travelled in the right areas for em!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Yep any time I see a woman told she can't, she does!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
This is true. Some parts of America are pretty bad too!
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theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago
Having some fun time with that lady who washed his feet
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Where was Jesus in the three days before He rose again?

Jesus was laid in a tomb by his friends for treatment of his wounds inflicted upon him on the Cross. Bible is not sure as to how many days he remained in the tomb; they keep on changing their words on it.

Since Jesus did not die on the Cross; so there is no question of his rising again.

Jesus remained in the tomb till such time his injuries were healed to such an extent that he could travel on foot to Galilee.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
Sorry to hear that and glad to be of service. It sucks to lose a friend - especially if it was avoidable. But - who knows what is going on in some one else's head? And you certainly should not give yourself a hard time over it. The guilt that comes with losing some one close - well - we all like to think we can fix everyone we care about and it is some what of a shock when we keep getting reminded that we cannot.

Grain of sand on the beach,

Hell? hehe. Who knows - I certainly don't - and usually my issue is with people who tell me that they do.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mark.
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Judah's Daughterposted 14 years ago
This is an excerpt from one of my hubs that teaches about this question:

Let's look at where Jesus' soul went while his physical, dead body was in the tomb. Eph 4:9 states, "'He ascended', what does that mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?' He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above the heavens, that He might fill all things." We know Jesus was not buried in the "lower parts of the earth". He was in a tomb.

What was He doing in the lower parts of the earth? In 1 Pet 3:19 the Bible states, "...He went and made proclamation [not 'preached'] to the spirits [fallen angels that sinned prior to the flood] now in prison [Tartaroo],..." He proclaimed His victory that indeed He was not dead! He did this before He ascended. It was Jewish custom that the victors in battle would make proclamation to the losers and give gifts to the victors.

•If you question as to whether the spirits imprisoned in Tartaroo (hell) were fallen angels, 2 Pet 2:4 confirms this: "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell [Tartaroo] and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;" and also Jude 1:6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Judah
  Tartaroo is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word "SHEOL" meaning "The GRAVE, the abode of the dead" It is the English Bibles that translate it three different ways. The KJV translates it as "Grave" "Hell" "Pit" The translation should have always been grave. In Jonah 2:2 it is translated "Hell"
  
  Jonah 2:2
  And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
  Jonah wasn't buried in the ground but he considered the whale his "Tomb". A tomb is a grave.
  
  No where does Tartaroo mean prison.
  
  All it means is that Yahshua was in his grave "Tomb" for three days then rose. Not just in Spirit but also in body.
  
  He did not go to a place of fire where demons are.
  
  This is the problem with English translations. They translated it into something they wanted it to say. To me, this is a type of control through fear.
  
  Most Christians think that where the Hebrew word "Shoel" or Greek words Tartaroo, Hades and Geena appear that it means a place where you burn forever. But the Greek and Hebrew words for "the grave, the abode of the dead" consistently means what it means.
  
  The scripture below should have been translated as "grave" as it was meant.
  Why would people be in a fiery hell before they are judged?
  
  Revelation 20:13
  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
  
  The scripture below was also incorrectly translated as hell instead of the grave.
  Would hell (the English idea of a fiery place of punishment) be cast into the Lake of Fire (The English idea of Hell) ?
  
  Revelation 20:14
  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sheol is the Hebrew word for Hades in Greek. Tartaroo is a Greek word, used in the New Testament, which was tranlated from Greek, and the definition of Tartaroo is "(the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment -- cast down to hell." (Strongs Concordance) Rev 20:14 is speaking of death (body) and Hades (soul) being cast into the final hell (Geenna), which is the Lake of Fire. Cross-reference this with Mat 10:28.
  
  People's souls do not go to Tartaroo; they go to Hades (if they are unbelievers) - Luke 16:23. Believers' souls go to Paradise (Luke 23:43), also defined as the "third heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4). The New Heaven and New Earth come down to us here (Rev 21:1) after the resurrections (there are two) - Rev 20:5.
  
  The fact that you reject the Greek language when it's convenient to support your Kabbalah (Jewish mystic) beliefs is characteristic of you, Deborah. I choose to take the Bible as it's written and defined by its original languages (which includes GREEK).
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  anyone want any interpretation help, just let me know
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know where you get your translation
  I don't reject Greek..I speak it.
  
  And none of the definitions you have given is correct.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove it.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove what?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That the Greek translation of Tartaroo given in the Bible Concordance is incorrect, as you claim...or any of what I said, since you said none of the Greek translation given was correct. I asked you to prove it...not to prove whether you speak Greek or not. That's irrelavent.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And how is my knowing Greek not relevant?
  
  If you went to Greece and there was a translation office that had a window that said I speak Spanish only, and one that said I speak German Only and another that said I speak Greek only.
  Would any of them be able to talk to you so you would understand?
  
  But if there was a window with a sign that said I speak English and Greek, wouldn't you approach that window? Who could explain Greek to you the best?
  
  The word as you have written, Tartaroo, is nothing but a phonic written in English to try and show you the sound of the word.
  
  The Greeks did believe in a hell because they were taught that by A False Apostle but the word for their idea of hell is κόλαση said Kolase or Kolasee
  
  I've already showed you these scriptures that you ignored
  
  The scripture below should have been translated as "grave" as it was meant.
  Why would people be in a fiery hell before they are judged?
  
  Revelation 20:13
  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
  
  The scripture below was also incorrectly translated as hell instead of the grave.
  Would hell (the English idea of a fiery place of punishment) be cast into the Lake of Fire (The English idea of Hell) ?
  
  Revelation 20:14
  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah, you haven't PROVEN anything. So, you think Paul is to blame for the hell teachings? Jesus Himself spoke about hell more than anyone and your revered Apostle Peter wrote the scriptures about Tartaroo. Jesus said in John 11:25, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" Hades & Tartaroo is not Geenna. Paradise is not the New Heaven/New Earth. The soul never dies. This is covered in my hub "Beyond Death: What the Bible Says".
  
  Jesus said that those who reject Him are condemned already (John 3:18), so it is no surprise that those who die without faith in Christ go to Hades, while those who die in Christ go to Paradise (Luke 23:43). EVERYONE's bodies go to the grave. Body and soul are separate, else Jesus' words in Mat 10:28 would not be true. Speaking of 10:28, Jesus is then speaking of the FINAL judgment of Geenna, the Lake of Fire, which happens after the second resurrection.
  
  How could Jesus be both in Paradise and Tartaroo at the same time? Because He is God, and at the moment of death, His Spirit became omnipresent. This is also how He raised His body from the dead (John 2:19; Acts 10:40; Rom 8:11). Likewise, His Spirit, since the day of Pentecost, indwells all believers. I know you don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh, but the Bible is clear. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the SAME (Rom 8:9).
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Remember this thread I started here
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39650
  telling everyone how the Greeks took over the scriptures by pretending to follow Yahshua?
  
  Then they changed Yahshua's name to Ιησούς said Ii̱soús which translates into the name Jesus. It is a form of Ζεύς. The Greeks wanted everyone to worship Zeus because they wanted to lead everyone away from God. They knew the name Yahshua was powerful. And they controlled everyone to call on the name of Ii̱soús (Jesus) by fear of hell.
  
  Well the Greek word Τάρταρο said Tártaro means Tartar which means a harsh and fierce person. It is derived from the word Tartarus. In Greek Mythology, Tartarus was a part of the underworld where the wicked suffered punishment for their misdeeds, esp. those such as Ixion and Tantalus who had committed something against the gods.
  
  Ixion was a king who, by Zeus's command, was pinned to a fiery wheel that revolved unceasingly through the underworld, as punishment for his alleged seduction of Hera.
  
  Hell is Κόλαση said as Kólasi̱ and is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Gehenna. But Gehenna is talking about the valley of Hinnom, a place near Jerusalem where children were sacrificed to Baal
  Gehenna is your word Geena. In Hebrew it has never meant Hell as an eternal place of punishment.
  
  This was all predicted in Numbers chapters 22-36
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  So, it is the Christians and the errant Church who changed name of Yahshua to Jesus.
  
  Thanks
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was the Greeks and those working with the Greeks..
  
  The Christians of today didn't change it,
  They believe what the Greeks wrote. The Christian's do love God but they have been led wrong because they believe all of the New Testament writings. The N.T. Does have several books of the Gospel
  But there are many books of N.T. that is not a part of the Gospel.
  Most also think that the Old Testamenet is of no use and outdated.
  
  The problem is that most people in the Christian doctrine refuse to research anything but the English Bible. They feel that it is somehow wrong.'
  
  Not everyone who believes in Yahshua is of the Christian doctrine/religion.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that there is more truth in the KJV than Christians will even know.
  
  The problems are the multitudes of Interpretations that they/we/I have been brainwashed to believe.
  It is almost as if we have been hypnotized to not see the message that was hidden right before our eyes.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well taken from Wikipedia, Deborah. Yeshua is Hebrew, Iesous is Greek, both mean Jesus in English. Geenna, the Valley of Hinnom was used by Jews as well, where they dumped the bodies of criminals and refuse. The fire was ongoing. Just because some used this fire to sacrifice their children to Molech doesn't mean its purpose is pagan in the Scriptural use. Likewise, with the use of Tartaroo. Take the Scriptural use and meaning, for it's in the Bible and is therefore, true. Otherwise, claim Peter was a false Apostle also.
  
  Considering the Lake of Fire is in the New Earth and does not even show up in Bible prophesy until after all bodies are resurrected from the dead as incorruptible, it doesn't point to annihilation of those cast into it. For one thing, Jesus was raised incorruptible and so shall all be. For another thing, the antichrist and false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the millennial reign (Rev 19:20), while Satan is not cast into it until after the millennial reign (Rev 20:10). Since 20:10 states, "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE also; and they will be TORMENTED DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER", the beast and false prophet weren't annihilated ~ for they ARE still there after a thousand years.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I worked hard to put that together for you because you said "prove it" I didn't take one word from Wikipedia. That's where you got some stuff to post to me in the comments on one of your hubs.
  I am a clear thinker and speak Greek as a second language and Hebrew as a third language, I don't need to consult a website.
  That was a big insult. But that's what you do best.
  
  I wrote this just for you. And I did it to show you the truth so you can get on the right path. It is your choice to follow the wrong doctrine or not. Go on believing what you find on the internet you will find thousands who agree with you,
  
  I am an honest outspoken person not a fake. I love to share and to teach.
  
  But I am growing tired of your insults. On your hub you posted all your Pauline scriptures in what you thought was saying Yahshua
  is God. When I posted about 15 scriptures of Yahshus saying that he was God. You wouldn't allow the comment and deleted it. And it was all scripture from YOUR Bible. I didn't even make a remark in the comment.
  You allowed Paul's statements and rejected Yahshua's. Is this you?
  John 5:43
  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul)
  
  And yet you are always telling ME I have to know JESUS. No thanks
  I follow the teachings of Yahshua not Zeus.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, the accusations fly. Anyone can look up Tartaroo in Wikipedia and see that's where you got your information. It's nearly word-for-word in most of what you said. You don't believe Jesus is God, so your comment is in error. That's what you meant to say. As I responded to you, the words of Jesus, while He was in the flesh, represented the fact that God in Him was limited to the Son. God's Spirit, however is not limited to just the body of Jesus, but is omnipresent. Jesus Himself revealed He was God in the flesh, for those who choose to "see". You won't read the hubs that clearly prove His identity, so that's to your own demise. Why do you think the Jews crucified Him? Blasphemy; that's why. I've presented scriptures to prove Yeshua's identity in my earlier comments that you choose not to acknowledge. And you dare to insert Paul's name in Jesus' words? Enough already.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do see the period after the scripture and before (Paul) don't you? I haven't inserted anything.
  
  I've been in your blind religion and came out of it.
  
  I have probably researched the Bible more than you.
  
  I am not a dog.
  
  2 Peter 2:22
  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Dogs" are "Gentiles" aka the "wild olive tree". Saved Gentiles are not dogs, but are grafted into the cultivated olive tree (Israel). Those of the cultivated olive tree that reject salvation by grace through faith in Yeshua's sacrifice and resurrection have their branches cut off, thus becoming dogs. They can, however, be grafted in again by faith as outlined in the Bible. This is what "spiritual Israel" is, of which ALL are saved. You can read all about it in Romans 11. You know the commandments...you know astrology and diviniation (tarot cards) are abominations to the LORD yet do them. As I said, I don't judge you, but I AM will judge you on the last day...do you know if you have tomorrow? How will YOU stand before the Lord?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a BIG fib.
  I didn't even spell my phonics the same way you do in either name.
  But Paul lied didn't he. You do follow his doctrine.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Greek for Lake of fire λίμνη της φωτιάς said límni̱ ti̱s fo̱tiás
  
  Grave is Τάφος and is said Táfos
  
  Pit is Λάκκος and is said Lákkos
  
  Underworld is Υπόκοσμος and is said Ypókosmos
  
  Abyss is Άβυσσος and is said Ávyssos
  
  Outer Darkness is Εξωτερικό Σκοτάδι and is said Exo̱terikó Skotádi
  
  Everlasting Punishment is Αιώνια τιμωρία and is said Aió̱nia timo̱ría
  
  Forgotten is Ξεχάσατε and is said Xechásate
  
  Forsaken is Εγκατέλειψες and is said Enkatéleipses
  
  Paradise is Παράδεισος and is said Parádeisos
  and is the same as
  Heaven is Παράδεισος and is said Parádeisos
  
  Hebrew for Damnation is קללה and in Greek it's
  καταδίκη meaning damnation or condemnation and is said Katadíki̱
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Deborah Sexton 22 hours ago
  
  I will not come to this hub again and I won't answer you on the forum.
  
  I will allow you to judge others.
  
  Next to last comment made by Deborah Sexton.
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Torah-The-Law-of-Moses
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People change their minds. especially when they see such wrong interpretations
  
  Mr. Dent, you're ridiculous
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  And some people are simply liars. Some are drama queens. Still some are able to let things go.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and some people just want to get up and go to times square, but its too funny in here.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you are, yes you are. I have let it go. This is another subject.
  
  You are the one that brought up the hub, so who is it that can't let go? You?
  
  So you must be looking in the mirror at yourself, thinking it is me.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't push with your personal attacks on me. You think you can say "SOME People" and get away with it,
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Jesus said that "IF" you beleive in me you will believe these things that I has told you.

I once told one of my boys "If you believe me" ..You will not play out on the thin ice that covered the lake.

If he didn't realy believe me, and does not follow my advice he was going to fall through the ice.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it takes three days to recover from those blunt traumas
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK ?? I don't understand ?
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Swettypieposted 14 years ago
how are you?ur so handsome huh' how old r u
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
The original topic question is great, especially given that Catholics and Protestants each (except for a small few) profess that Jesus died on a Friday afternoon and rose on a Sunday morning.

Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon is 1 day.

Saturday afternoon to Sunday morning is only part of a day....

They can't even get to a second day with Jesus' body in the ground, let alone a third.

Any other discussion is then moot.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are many inconsistancies within church teachings.
  
  When I come across any one of these I will accept the version that was said to have came out of the mouth of Jesus.
  Jesus said that we was going to spend three days and three nights in the grave as Johna spent three days and three nights in the belly of the well.
  
  Therefore he must not have went in on Friday afternoon and out on Sunday morning. End of story.
  
  Does make me wonder why it is told the way that it was told?
  I think just to cause confusion???
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did the prophecies in the Old Testament say anything about how long the Messiah was to remain in the grave?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Old Testament prophesied of the resurrection of Christ, but it was Jesus Himself who prophesied that He would rise on the third day (New Testament).
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most old religion beliefs are passed down through the ages, largely unchallenged. These are catholic beliefs. Catholicism is the spirit of doctrinal wrongness. Most if not all catholic beliefs are unscriptural. Good friday, lent, easter, christmas none of these are biblical holidays nor are they founded on any truth. They are made up, changed, defiled and presented to institute fear and false hope, a hope based on a church system - not on christ.
  Therefore most churches spout off biblical UNtruths not even aware that what they do and teach are wrong.
  God bless them but the church needs to mature and the believer needs to research! research! research!.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have to agree with every word that you said.
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waynetposted 14 years ago
He went on a fishing trip and didn't catch anything!
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brotheryochananposted 14 years ago
back to the original question, where was jesus in the three days before he rose again?
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Jesus spent those three days preparing the ones resurrected after his resurrection. Notice it says many bodies. There are no bodies in tartaroo, or hell (neither place even exists). I doubt that there are any bodies of those who died preflood as in ephesians 6:4, either.
The word grave is tomb, and tomb it had to be because bodies need air to breathe. In my opinion, Jesus sent out "unjustly killed" people to testify to his resurrection and to have another chance at their lives.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  which is seen in Johns explanation of the revelation of Y`shua Moshiach aka the book of revelation 20.4-6
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rev 20 discusses the third diffrent ocasion or the third group of people being seen before the throne.
  But the Church doesn't tell it that way.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  course they don't. though the book reads:
  
  Even more crazy: immediately after is the judgment of the dead and the very next page is the New Jerusalem explanation where He says: behold, I make all things new.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
In that case, I will get a fresh coffee and wait for Valerie and the other catholics. Not that I disagree. My mom was a catholic and that seems to sum up her beliefs.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everything concerning prophesy and those things that Jesus was said to have said just makes too much sinse when we look at them from a post 1st rescurrection prospective.
  All the pieces of the puzzle just falls together in my mind at least.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
A few were resurected on the day of the crucifixion

the 144000 are the first fruits unto the Lord.
They have to be with the multitude that are seen Rev. 7:13
After the sixth seal is opened.
Rev. 14 The 144000 have been redeamed and are seen with Jesus just before the Harvesting of the earth.

Those are the same as those seen in Chapt 20 which was the first rescurrection.
And then after the 1000 years the sixth vial is poured out
Satan the beast and false prophet is seen getting ready to gather the kings of the earth together.

And then the second resurrection is to take place.
There are two great multitudes that scripture describes standing before the throne not counting the second rescurrection
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I'm just saying that religion should teach these things the way that it is said to have happened instead of Interpretating this to all be one big event that all takes place in a 3 1/2 year period of time. Not written that way.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I would imagine that what solid validation that might have been avaliable is now locked up in a basement someplace.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, but the Romans were meticulous record keepers and since there is no mention of Jesus or his crucifixion in the Roman records, we must assume it never happened.
  
  Besides, Rome had extremely talented lawyers who would have jumped on a case where a fair trial was not permitted. Even the citizens would have rioted if Jesus had been sentenced to death without a fair trial.
  
  There should be numerous accounts of this travesty of justice had it taken place. Also, none of the scientists, or other learned men of the time, mentioned an earthquake, corpses rising from their graves, or the sky being dark for hours.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My beliefs are not dependent upon if many embellishments of the story are unable to be proven true or if they are proven to be false. I would not believe everything that the disciples are said to have written were actually written by them.
  
  The only part of the NT that is required in my belief system are those things that is said to have came out of the mouth of Jesus. In other words to understand what the prophesy written in the OT actually are saying. and choosing to believe those things that are said to be the words of Jesus are what he said. This is all that I have to believe in order to feel that I have a solid foundation for my belief system.
  
  This should be the foundation on which any Christians "SHOULD" build their belief system upon. The OT was, you might say, republished by Ezra 480 years before Christ fulfilled all of the Prophesy that was written in this 2nd publication of the OT.
  By the way 480 years in one of those magic numbers that reoccurs through the bible.
  
  OK bottom line... If the OT prophesy as delivered by Gabriel are true? and if the words that is said to have came out of the mouth of Jesus are true; Then the Church has been teaching all of prophesy totally wrong. No ands, Ifs' or, buts.
  
  That being true ??? If Revelation has any truth at all, ??????????? You already know the rest.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever you feel is right for you, Jerami. I just can't understand studying scripture which may be, and most likely is, completely made up. If there were any corroborating evidence at all I could see it, but as it is, I consider it a waste of time and study.
  
  But you know what you like!
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
In terms of the three day concept, the old testament depiction is through Jonah, who spent three days and three nights in the belly of the "fish" that swallowed him.

At least this is the connection that I have found.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
It's after midnight and I'm goin to bed..
Good night, I'm gone
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
What I find interesting is the terms of Old v New. The Old Testament is a historical record of events pertaining to a nation of people, includeing events pertaining to interactions with/without the Creator. The New Testament should be the same. It is mostly singular correspondences between believers. This is where the greatest problem comes in. Translating a love letter in Russian can read like hate mail to an ex mother-in-law in Spanish.

Though all of the letters have some value to the reader, considering anyone of them as gospel truth or verbatim is silly. People could do the same with Shakespeare or even a NY Times op-ed columnist. What is read should inspire one to seek after the things talked about, from a pure perspective, not a subjective one. Ironically, the book even states that all the text was inspired to bring one toward wisdom and liberation from the very notions argued here...

....just a thought.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Never thought about it before..??
  
  Who first coined the phrase New Testament and Old testament?
  There may be something to be said about that.
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
I just went to Wikipedia and typed in Tartaroo
and I got nothing. I don't use it. But I have studied Greek mythology.

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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
I found it on Wikipedia spelled different than your spelling
And it is nothing like mine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaros

I know Paul is your inspiration but the laws of God are still in
affect, and one of then is: You shall not bear false witness.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're bearing FALSE WITNESS against the Apostle Paul! This hub is about Tartaroo, which Peter, the Apostle you DO approve of, wrote about ~ and is the hell Jesus went to in order to proclaim His victory over death and the grave to His enemies.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Has anyone considered that Jesus might have been making reference to the Religious establishment in Jerusalem as the wild olive tree, spoken of in his parabels.
The Olive tree gone wild.

I understand that Jesus dying upon the cross as establishing a new covenant therefore planting a NEW olive tree.

The parabel of the servant saying to the master, NO lets not cut it down yet... Let me till the ground and care for it for yet a little time longer, and then if it does not produce good fruit then we shall cut it down.
I think that this parable was speaking of the Hebrew Nation that a hundred years later was cut down.

How many times did Jesus call the Pharasees "Sons of Satan"
"Den of vipers" etc.

Debra I agree that we can not take all of those things that Paul "WAS SAID TO HAVE SAID" literally.

Any thing that anyone believes the disciples to have said that contradicts those things that it is said (that came out of the mouth of Yeshua) can not be taken literally.

Just one opinion of a humble servant.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, the entire Bible is the Word of God. Read Romans 11 to answer your question about the wild and cultivated olive trees. Jesus chose twelve disciples (apostles, which means ambassadors); the eleven chose Matthias to replace Judas; the Lord chose Paul...even Barnabas. Why? So we could ignore them? Absolutely NOT! Paul said in 1 Cor 1:12, "Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, 'I am of Paul,' and 'I of Apollos,' and 'I of Cephas [Peter],' and 'I of Christ.'" In 1 Cor 3:4 he says this means you are operating in the carnal ~ the flesh.
  
  We know we're all of Christ (those who believe), but Paul was speaking to people like you and Deborah who only adhere and respect the words that came out of Yeshua's mouth (and, of course, the prophets of old). Deborah doesn't even know Who gave the commandments to Moses...that would be Yeshua. And you should just have the Old Testament, a four-book gospel and the book of Revelation. What, did YHWH only speak in the Old Testament and through Yeshua? Did He only give prophecy to the "prophets of old"? Deborah obviously believes God speaks to her yet today...through tarot cards and astrology.
  
  Anyone can be saved strictly on what Yeshua said, and that's what is important. The rhetoric about the end of the Old Covenant and New is what Deborah's so concerned about, though she already practices abominations forbidden in the Mitzvot. Yeshua would never have come if anyone could have been saved by keeping the Law.
  
  I've answered the request on this hub, and frankly, this other stuff is only detracting from the topic (which Deborah refused to allow happen on her thread, by the way). I've done my duty to my Lord. You guys work out your own salvation, just as I will. Lord, we lift this up to You, in Yeshua's name ~ amen.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't you stop making up stuff. No one said the law is all you need, But you do need it, I guess it is too hard for you to live the life, Why fight so hard against the law if that's not the problem?
  
  Stop talking about me and start talking to me. That is just RUDE!
  
  And like I said Yahshua was just dead in his tomb for 3 days he was not in a pit.
  
  Judah makes these statements as though only she knows God and truth.
  
  Matthew 7:5
  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The law was inadequate in every sense of the word.
  Our own Hebrew history proves it -even with the interventions. Law breeds sin and sin breeds death. Where is the joy in that?
  Love abounds in spite of the law. Love before the law -even during it- and most definitely after it...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Law doesn't breed sin. Law reveals sin. If we don't sin the law has no effect on us.
  
  If the law shows you guilty, you are guilty. That doesn't make the law wrong or bad, it shows you're wrong or bad.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever broken any of the law? If you have, then the law didnot save you nor can it save you. The law proves you guilty of sin. It proves us all guilty.
  
  You try to get JD to stop fighting against the law while you fight against grace. Which is greater, the law or grace? Keep in mind that Jesus said, "Except your righteousness surpass the righteousness of the scribes and pahrisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
  
  It seems very straightforward to me. Grace is what saves anyone and that only by faith.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
My point of view is as it has been for quite some time.That we are saved for what Jesus did, and I believe everything that Jesus said. I believe Paul, Matthew, Mark, etc. untill what they say or what they say is interpretated in such of a way as to contradict the word of Jesus. Then I will doubt that person rather than to doubt the word of Jesus.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was born a Jew and ministered to the Jews, primarily. The Gentiles could not be grafted in until after the Day of Pentecost. This was prophesied by Isaiah (56:8 and more) and Jesus (John 10:16). He told His disciples to go into all the world to preach the gospel to all creation, and that ANYONE who believes and is baptized will be saved; those who do not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16). The latter includes Jews that refuse the gospel of the New Covenant. The Apostles did not contradict Christ's message. If you think so, then your interpretation of Christ's message is in error. They were all filled with the Spirit of Christ on the Day of Pentecost and did not blaspheme the Lord's Word. The Spirit of Truth is just that ~ they did not lie or mislead anyone.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize for delaying with my reply.
  Computer is acting up again.
  
  I do not know if Paul or any of the twelve taught anything differently than that Jesus taught. I am convinced that people interpret them as having said things that does contradict the clearly spoken word of Christ.
  You know of which I speak. I won't get into that here.
  I have read Isaiah 56:8 as you suggested.
  This is a classic example of which I speak.
  
  I think that you suggested this verse to counter an earlier statement that I had made concerning the Nation of Israel being the wild olive tree.
  When I read Isaiah 56:8; I read conformation of my earlier statement.
  This verse speaks of those that ARE gathered unto the son of man, speaking of Hebrews who ARE gathered unto HIM. And this tells of the sons of strangers who are grafted into those that are gathered unto the son of man.
  As far as the rest of that Hebrew Nation who are not gathered unto the Son of Man; they are being described as being beasts of the field and of the forest, blind dogs that do not bark etc. etc.
  This chapter sounds to me to be prophesying well for those that are gathered unto the Son of Man as if HE is the good olive tree that all that desire to be grafted in can be.
  
  Seems to be saying woe unto those blind dogs who never have enough and shephards that can not understand etc. are not grafted into this covenant.
  
  I guess that I just see differently than some people.
  I may be misguided. But I must be honest and tell it like I see it. And this is the way that I see it.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you read Romans 11, as I suggested?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have just read it again.
  My understanding of "these passages" are not referring to the Hebrew nation as being THE olive tree but a limb that has been cut off of the tree, that the Gentiles may be grafted on in their place, that they (the Hebrews) may be provoked to jealousy.
  
  There was another parable about a unfruitful tree being cut down for not bearing fruit that I believe was referring to the Hebrew people as a whole. I don’t remember now but I do not think that that tree was noted to be "the olive tree". I think that there is a difference between the two.
  
  I don‘t mean to be argumentative . Just the way expressing what it appears to be saying; to me.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are there cross-references in your Bible? That may help, too :-)
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have used the cross references. And still I often understand some of these verses to clearly be saying something totally opposite from how other people are understanding them.(clearly to me anyway).
  
  I once became so confused attempting to understand this persons and that persons interpretations until I just disregarded everything that I had been taught. Started all over again with a clean chalk board so-to-speak. And attempted to understand scripture unhindered by other peoples interpretations. It didn't bring me to the same conclusions as is taught by mainstream religions.
  
  I think that is a good thing.
  Gotta go out again for a little while. Back after a while
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why did you not reply to my answer?
  skipped over that conversation just to
  ..... only ask another question.
  Did you re-read the verses that you sudgested for me to read to see if you could understand why I understood it the way that I did???
  I "MIGHT" have been correct or not concerning what I thought was actually written?
  Did ya check it out?
  Anyone elses input concerning this issue would also be welcome
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preyposted 14 years ago
NO
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
The bible is not the Word of Creator, sorry. It is an inspired text for wisdom pertaining to human purpose of Creator. The totality is not in the books, but in the living person -each one.
Remember only this: man should not live by bread alone (written text) but by every word that proceeds from His mouth.
It is the word AND testimony combined that prove the Spirit in each one of us. If either or is lacking, then the Spirit is quenched.

This universe is merely the breath from His mouth -the Word- which framed all things in it...

It strikes me as odd, that the believing -by any measure- look for a different entrance to a kingdom given to them. Twelve gates, but only one entrance. Not by might nor power but only by the Spirit.

...just a thought.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." The Greek word for "inspired" is "theopneustos", which is interpreted "God-breathed, i.e. inspired by God".
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When Timmothy spoke these words he was not pointing to these things that he was saying nor those things that the other disciples were teaching. He was speaking of the scriptures that were considered to be scriptures at that time.
  
  Timothy was not giving testamony of himself or the words that he himself was teaching.
  
  Just my opinion.
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SirDentposted 14 years ago
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Word of God says it like it is.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  though i agree with the statement, Sir Dent, I must confess that the Word Himself never said the books we read were the Word of 'God'. And if He didn't say so, then I cannot accept that the texts are all that there is. These are lessons and conversations to provoke us to seek out in spirit those things hidden...
  
  ...just a thought.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  The Word of God is what gives life and takes it away. Without the guidance of the Holy Ghost, we cannot know the Word of God.
  
  God gives a Word to prophets still today, but if you check them out, they will always be backed by the Bible in one way or another.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  err, what prophets?
  Y`shua fulfilled all the Law and Prophets.
  The Word of "God" is not in the book, last time I checked, so how can it lead you or I to the Spirit. The Word is sitting at the right hand of the Father, from whom all wisdom comes and is, yes?
  
  The spirit is now the Teacher, the Revealer of the Word & Testimony of the Father, in us. This is the work of Y`shua and what He (the Word) confessed on our behalf before the Father, yes?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  The Word took our sins upon His back and they were nailed to the cross yes. He still speaks today through the Holy Ghost to men.
  
  Not all are saved, even though all are forgiven.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Salvation is the gift of grace. unwrapping the gift is up to us.
  This was the entire point -to restore humans to the correct stasis, not just get them into 'heaven'. Everyone is -by His point of view- saved/forgiven (because they are the same). Why do they die, get sick, etc. Because they refuse to accept the gift -according to HIS terms- not their interpretation of those terms.
  
  People used the Law the same way: their way, their methods (assumed correct and effective) in the hopes of achieving righteousness/zen/holiness/etc etc etc. Did it work? Nope. Good thing too.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think what SirDent meant to say was, though Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world, only those who believe are forgiven and saved (1 Tim 4:10). Here are a couple of examples of "nullified grace": Gal 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Also Heb 6:6 "and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Guess I was just affirming it.
  
  A semantic:
  
  If you put a rope around a donkey's neck and lead it the right way, does the donkey have faith? No. If you tie it to a tree, does it learn anything? The rope being the Law (or even the study of the Truth) has no validity. They become a burden of proof to the donkey, which makes it even more resistant, rebellious and sad.
  Now, take off the rope, train it to go the right way.
  If it does, great! Plenty of fun, life, food and fresh water.
  If it doesn't then it will starve to death. And if tied to the tree, will starve to death as well.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen. Gal 3:19 "Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator [Moses], until the seed [Jesus] would come to whom the promise had been made." Blessings, brother :-)
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
and though, I do not wish to argue already made points:

If the SAME Spirit, that raised Christ (the Anointing) from the dead, dwells in you -with all richness and faith- you are NOT under the Law, but under Grace.

...night.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I agree. I am fairly sure that is what I said above. The law proves all guilty. Grace brings mercy and forgiveness.
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  Iamsamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  amen to that
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