If Jesus was God,and God is God,wouldn't that be two gods?
If the Holy spirit is added to the mix,wouldn't that be three Gods?
If all three are aspects of the one God.was Jesus talking to himself when he prayed to the Father?
When Jesus said"I return to the Father",Was he returning to himself?
If Jesus was God,is it conceivable that God Died for three days
If God died for three days
Who was running the universe while he was dead?
I thought you were running it!
Geeze! Do I have to do everything myself?
OMG!!!...I just laughed so hard I farted and my GF and cat left the room in disgust!So just as back when I went to church...I'm sitting in my own Pew...ahh the loneliness Ernest.
For God so love the world that He sent His only begotten Son.But most of the world have twisted it around to say that God came Himself.That is calling God a lie.
The Catholic view of a trinity is producing 3 Gods.God the father,god the son,and god the holy ghost.That is too many gods.
The Christian view is one God.From the father,through the son and by the holy ghost.That is a very total difference.
Not so I'm afraid. For Catholics there is only one God and He takes on three guises: the father, the son and the holy spirit. Jesus was all man and all God. How else do you explain his birth and resurrection? And if Jesus was not God but was God's son, what did that make him? And why do you pray to him if he is not God?
Mary is a God.She is prayed to,kneel down to,made a statue of in the church and idolize.That is pagan...and not Christian.Christ sent peter to establish the Christian church Acts 11 v 26
Christ taught us to pray to the father,and not to Him Mat 6 v 9
Christians don't have any other title or name.Nothing shoud be added to it ,and nothing should be taken from it.
Mary is not a god either. She is the mother of God and honored accordingly. Catholics don't idolise Mary in statue form, any more than you idolise your parents by having a photo of them. It's just a focal point.
That is the problem....God don't have and never did have a mother.You are speaking of His son.Jesus Christ.
Mary was the mother of the flesh.Christ came from heaven as a SPIRIT,by the spoken word of God.The supernatural birth is verification of the ability and power of the Almighty.
We honor her because by accepting Jesus as her son, she was the first Christian. She became a real mother to a real son with all trials and suffering that would entail, all the while accepting, through immense faith and courage, his suffering and death.
Everyone try to up hold their belief of self agenda,but IDOLATRY is not accepted by God.And that make the total difference. Lev 12 v 1 ...no graven images.
Mary is no Golden Calf. This is not statue worship. She is the mother of the Church. Catholics make pictures and statues to represent Holy people and remember them in prayer. Idolatry is the worship of inanimate objects. Catholics use art to help them pray, they do not worship it. They only worship God.
That's three no matter how you look at it. God stated that he is one God.
Yahshua (Jesus) told the people they had never seen God nor heard his voice.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
Hello! The Trinity is God, Eternal and all powerful and is sovereign and totally independent. The Son and The Holy Spirit in this world is for us, an extension of God The Father. The Son and Holy Spirit is always in the perfect Will Of God working for us all in this world. God can have an infinite number of other existences, but His extension in our world, our existence, comes as His Son and His Holy Spirit whose functionality is One, they never disagree but always work dynamical as ONE. So, the Trinity is God Eternal and an extension in this world as God Eternal composed of The Son and The Holy Spirit. Jesus had God's Holy Spirit and continuously listen and obeyed God, the ONE GOD. His extension is for our localized and temporal state to identify with Eternal God.
IF is a big word,CHRIST WAS NOT GOD.Your confusion have cause you to be delusional.I gust NEXT you will be calling a dog a cat.
Hey DUDE!!!NOW YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE!!DON'T YOU BE INSULTING MY CAT!!!!
This guys a troll Y'all!He's completely full of sh#t and he knows it.I'm betting this is a sock puppet whose sitting in his parents basement[in his dirty shorts]giggling at all the attention he's finally getting in his lonely life.
Hey Jacky boy!Is it cold in your folks basement?
Is that it....is that the conclusion of your intelligence.I see you didn't bring much.
Hmmm...Short answer...I bet I hit the nail right on the head!
Brrr,bet it's cold down in that basement huh?
You insist on acting like a delusional child and that's the way your being treated.How many converts do you think you've gained?How many souls do you think you've saved?
You've done more damage to your religion than all the folks on this thread combined.Why do you insist on shooting your self in the foot?
Are you Into rejection and ridicule?Clearly,your into poor grammar,spelling and ignorance...but that's excusable.It's the disguised hatred that gets annoying...
Did your Shrink put you up to this?
You wanna trade insults?I'm UP for that game...so BRING IT DUDE!Let the games begin...
I don't need to travel the same road as you do to get to the same destination.I speak as I choose to speak and i can care less about your high class ways.
You make yourself look bad trying to challenge me when all you have is yesterdays news.I speak for the FEW and not the majority.Those that suppose to come will come and those that are not suppose to come concerns me not..
Jesus is God's son, He is a God but not GOD; in the book of Revelation Christ said, 'To him that overcome will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Right there He was telling us of Higher Being. And the trinity is man made cause they not leaving out other key players; we are taught Father, Son, Holy Ghost; but what about the Holy Spirit, the Son of Man, the Blood, and the Water!
I appreciate your thoughts.
You have raised valid questions. Trinity is man made ,it is un-natural and unscientific. It has nothing to do with Jesus; it belongs to Paul and the Church.
Christians are not supposed to question such things. It may blow their minds, even though they may pretend to understand it. Christ did not believe himself to be God. He prayed to God the Father, in the sense that all mankind is supposed to be the children of God. It was only with the passing of time that these ideas developed among pagan nations, who were used to the idea of the gods fathering children with the daughters of man. The Jews of Jesus' time would not have comprehended such ideas, but it was inevitable that as Christianity spread to the pagan Roman empire, that the various beliefs would mix.
I got converted to Christianity in the 7th grade. But it didn't take, and only lasted a few years, probably do to such contradictions, and which was manifested by the people who practiced it. Good points.
myself also knoly, forced fed in Catholic school.
I am probly wrong here but it was explained to me as Three in one
God, the spirit of- (Holy Ghost)
God, the flesh- (Jesus)
God Almighty- (The Mind of God)
3 in one, Same Being. thats all I know on it. Probably not correct at all.
Father son and holy ghost.
My mom was a catholic.
its been a few months now on the detox process with all of this junk, it takes a bit, but I am feeling better without all this doctrine buzzing in my head. A Lot less Guilty and maybe freeier some.
Here we all seem talking about the trinity as we have been taught from the existing religious beliefs, and we seem to be not so sure about what this all mean, in fact some of us think that it is all a bit strange, or perhaps even ridiculous one could say. So, what's about if we view the trinity in a futuristic way, let me see how I can describe this:
Let us suppose that God the Father is all the life-energy that exists in the universe, Jesus as he is human represents all living things on earth and the Holy-spirit/ghost is the life-force energy that is here on earth; you see here again we can make up the trinity.
What do you say to that?
I say that's the best answer yet!I simply prefer to use the"Futuristic"metaphorical view and leave religion out of the equation.Many thanks for this post sir.
I think that God is a committee of three - the father, the son and the ghost. Being the product of a committee is why mankind is so screwed up!
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD"
Not 3 or 3 in one..just one
Agreed. Just one.
In psychology it has a very similar use to explain part of the process of individuation.
The ancient druids had a similar formularization to do with the philosopher's stone.
Tell me more,. was it Jung?
All is within God, all that which is within God is God. God isn't SUPERnatural. God IS nature. All things prove God. But "GOD" is the title, not the name.
Consider: My father is in me, my mother is in me, yet I am a separate individual. 3 in one. All the bible is, in Genesis, is the depiction of the psyche and genetic makeup of mankind as a species, and the introduction of the tribe of Adam, and the first, spiritual, wedding between a tribal member and the leader, named also Adam, as in a dynastic order: The House Of Adam
Yes, Carl Jung. Top of the class for you!
For those who are interested in personal growth that is more painful than having your nails pulled, a brief explanation of individuation is here.
As you delve you will recognise the trinity symbolism
http://www.soul-guidance.com/houseofthe … rocess.htm
It has it's advantages............... for example, it can actually work.
Religion is about personal avoidance and control of others.
This is about personal responsibility and control of self through knowledge.
A long and painful experience just like most things that are real and work in the real world.
Are you assuming that acquiring knowledge will lead to self control and thereby be a good person relative to the humanities? I say that there is a divergence toward evil, take, and control as one accrues knowledge. Religion says individual listen to the top humanitarian(s) such as Jesus or Buddha. How can raw knowledge compete with divine guidance relative to self control? Raw knowledge has so many negative dimensions of temptation until its almost uncountable.
Psychological process has a hell of a lot more to it than raw data.
Psychology has the capacity to see all the data that went before, and apply it.
Religion has dogma and no way to grow past it.
If you want to argue it, learn about it as I have with religion, then your opinion will have value.
Divine????????? what the hell is that?
I like discussion, not blind assertions, if you are going to discuss it, find out about it first.
earnestshub, yeah, psychological dimension is lots more than data, its all of those dimensions of temptations to control, take, and other evil deeds. I am sick and tired of hearing that human plus knowledge leads to understanding and better world than religion can give. This is a crock! If it were true with all the knowledge that we have now, than we would be approaching a utopia. Hell no! This world now is about using knowledge to control others and kill others. Wake up! Get real!
Go and find out what divine means.
Firstly, I don't need to find out what divinity is.... it isn't.
Secondly the state the world is in may have something to do with the mass ignorance which drives the religiously insane to start wars, tell lies, manipulate the ignorant and deny responsibility for self and replace it with goddunit.
Religionists like to claim that they are a large majority and then blame a handful of non believers for the state the world is in.
Very very silly.
Repetition is also silly.
If it is so silly, why such a earnestly over thought response.
Usually things which are silly are typically child like, and USUALLY ignored..
Unless of course the adult thinks it is not silly at all and then addresses it...
Wait.. Isn't that what you done? Addressed it?
And then . . .
You called it silly....
Something smells funny here.
Wooo! I am sick and tire of hearing such ignorance as Christians start wars and causes murder. Lies with a little truth; no one nor anything is perfect. Why don't you look at the world. Murder is the norm. Taking is the norm. Control is the norm. The history of civilization is war and mass killings without religion. When the religious banner is flown, it has been hijacked by some government for the purpose of control...selfish ego who is the norm in the world without religion.
I can see that you don't have much knowledge about how civilizations came into being and the present states, and you sound as if you just attended church, but leaned nothing. You have never known Christ Jesus.
Another factor if could be accessed is the murders and wars that religion has stopped. On the other hand, the Nazis had superior knowledge, but what did they do with it? They felt that they needed to fabricate a religion. WHY earnestshub?
You don't have the knowledge that you think you have! Sorry, but I am tire of hearing bull crap.
earnestshub, you are standing in crap up to your neck while pointing at the believers who have some drops of crap on them, and is attempting to clean. How can you stand in a world where murder is the norm, and accuse Christians who teaches against murder of retarding the world. This is nuts! Satan has put blind folders on you.
That makes no sense. Having knowledge about the world around us will not necessarily lead to utopia, it just leads to an understanding of the world around us.
Of course, you're free to show us how your religion has lead to either a utopia or an understanding of the world around us. It has accomplished neither.
If you are tired of hearing bull crap, you may have to stop listening to yourself.
Hitler was a religionist by the way, as are the lovely Taliban.
The Last time I looked there were 31 wars going on in the name of your god
I Used to be a god botherer myself, but as you seem to only scan information you would have missed the guts of my past religiosity.
My knowledge of religion and psychology are the result of a lot of study over more than 30 years.
If you bothered to read something other than the one book that supports your indoctrination you may be worth listening to, but all you have is the usual goddunit.
If you want to be taken seriously put up a reasonable argument and I will discuss it.
Earnest I am all over this Link you provided, very painfull, and very enlightening. and you can see a lot of the Traits above. Facinating to me, and helpfull also
good work Kind Sir Still reading it over again, letting it sink in
some hard truths.
Don't start with your lying about Hitler..
Murderers are liars anyway. So EVEN IF your history lesson were true, which it isn't, nothing he said holds any weight.
But I guess you would believe the words of a mentally diseased mass murderer wouldn't you?
No, but I can read and know the truth about YOUR mass murdering mate Hitler.
So could you if you weren't locked in to believing without learning.
How much evidence would it take to demonstrate to you that hitler was a religionist?
If you read the threads you will find photos of Hitler with church leaders, all agreeing on your god.
The nazi's wore religious paraphernalia. Like me to go get them for you and post them here??
Thanks Victor, would you like to see them too?
Would a dozen or so original photographs of the uniform suffice do you think?
Please put more effort into your literacy.
It is spelled vEctor..
I made a mistake in a profile name, so shoot me! Nothing to do with literacy. Childish!
If you used your real name as I do I would apologise profusely.
Would you like me to list all your typos?
"Nothing to do with literacy."
[ líttərəssee ]
ability to read and write: the ability to read and write to a competent level
Are you always so pedantic that you chase up single typos and try to leverage that to a literacy problem?
Write some hubs, learn to read and write, then get back to me about literacy. Pathetic!
You certainly are a "soldier for jesus christ" and a single subject writer to boot.
OH MANNNNNN do I sound like that? I bet aaaaai do?
Sorry if that is the reuth.
vector7 I don't to be rude , I cain't quite see Jesus talking to anybody like that, He might write something in the sand and if he did write something in the sand ......
i don't think that he would make it into be a mistory.
I think he would keep it short and to the point!
Using as few words as posible and get across quickly wgat he ment to say
If Jesus wrote something intended for us to understand 2000 years later ..... Jesus would have known that he was writting in the sand ........ and said it in a short and sweet manner. Wouldna made us spend a lotAh time looking for answers. "They" might put in a book like that but not in the sand.
That is the way I remember it ..... Jesus wrote in the sand .....(maybe a lot?) and the other guys left real quick.
Woke up a little bit ago and wanted to watch my fingers moving on Tha board.
OH MANnnnn that isn't where I wanted this post to go. You will have to wait until tomoeeow to hear what I was goina say. It is after 3 AM. Don't worry .. I won't Forget..... ?
Earnest, this link?????
Where do you find more reading about this. This is excelent
I wish you would delve into this a bit, another thread or Hub possibly m
I have been at a birthday party, still am in fact.
If you put Nazi uniform in google images you will see them my friend.
I will post a few when I get a few more minutes.
It's been done here before.
Mark Knowles (If you don't know Mark, he is hated by the fundies for knowing more than they do about scripture and almost everything else)put up a series of close up photos of the nazis in church with the hierarchy with the cross and much other religious paraphenalia and inscriptions relating to religion on there uniforms and insignia.
I put up some of Hitler's earlier history of religiosity also with a picture, then several others did the same.
If it were evidence in court it would be over in 5 minutes.
Did one religionist take back their claim that the atheist Hitler and his top brass hated religion and were all atheists?
Of course not!
Religionists have to lie, otherwise their case falls over and all that false pride and ignorance is exposed to them and all their friends as well as to us.
They lose face and all that vested interest has amounted to nothing for them.
The problem is they don't know how to be moral or honest or self sufficient.
Without the sky daddy the religiously challenged are just lost and afraid with no logic to guide them, they cannot stay civilised by themselves, and have to assume others have the same problem.
Instead of admitting they were wrong as any moral person would, the join together to have you banned.
I imagine they also probably stay true to form and vote down all your hubs as well which is sometimes obvious from the childish responses all those who oppose religion get from time to time.
You are ridiculous.
You've been corrected and shut down, and you continue to spread your lies.
Seems you and hitler have much in common...
I'm going to put on a basketball jersey now so idiots will think I like to play basketball.
Your so engrossed you aren't even debating. Your rambling... About a subject that doesn't help you at all anyhow.
What hitler claimed makes no difference.
Clinton said he didn't screw that women in the oval office.
Think those claims are true? How Gullible are you?
Gosh - you Christians certainly are aggressive. Is that what your religion is all about then? Fighting and arguing for Jesus?
No. It's pointing out the truth and the liars.
Didn't notice any aggression in that post either. Mostly common sense.
"You are ridiculous. " is not aggressive? OK then. Another loving Christian spreading the word.
calling people liars because you don't agree with them....that's not aggressive either?
earnestshub, you don't know anything if you thing hitler was religious. You are really blind to the truth.
The Bible tells us many things that are senseless in light of man's reasoning, but makes perfect sense to God Who is Perfect.
The idea of trinity comes from extending the original god concept as a fact - on par with spending a lifetime contemplating how big an angels wingspan might be - b@ll@cks in spades.
Vector, tell you what.....
I will post the photographs and history and lets see what they offer in the way of proof, and then you provide your equal evidence. How does that sound. Fair?
You can go first with your hard evidence if you like.
I'm watching the GP.
In my statement above I forgot to mention that not only will they not apologise for lying, they will look at original photos of the nazis being welcomed in to the church and posing with the clergy and deny that it happened.
I have seen pictures of Hitler with what I thought was the pope hile looking pretty friendly.
I wasn't wondering what Hitler was believing NO I was wondering what the Pope was thinking?
Probly thinking to Join them instead of bucking them and possibly being reciprocated against. Trying to Hide in plain site so to speak to avoid the violence comming maybe, or at least what I read about it suggested that.
hard to know the truth about that as they would hide those facts I am sure of.
They = Vatican
Cheaptrick, that is not a bloomin cat ya got there, its a dog!
Look! I'm doin the best I can here buddy, but........ I tried not to laugh...........I just keep failing is all!
Wddaya got aginst shrinks mate! I resemble that remark!
None of the psychotic nonsense in the OT is original, or the NT for that matter.
"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
God encompasses the spirit of Jesus. Jesus is a man, God is spirit. God is the glue that binds this organic reality together. God resides in all man, God resides in everything. Jesus tried to explain read Gnostic text, man just did not have the ability to understand physics.
One God; three persons. A mystery that no illustration can illuminate. it's been formulated in that way down through history because the Scriptures ascribe to the Father, to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit attributes that can only be true of God. Attributes such as holiness, eternity, omniscience, etc.
Three persons are always three; they cannot reduce to one; in the process of making them one; they all will die.
How about showing the forms of liquid, ice and steam for illustrating water?
That doesn't work because if a liquid becomes steam it is no longer liquid. The Father did not become the Son who, in turn, became the Holy Spirit. All three exist from eternity past is perfect unity.
Sure it works, lower the temperature of steam and it becomes water again, lower it further and it turns to ice.
It works because it illustrates one thing that can change back and forth to any of it's various forms and still remain one thing.
But it can not be those things at the same time. Unless you use more than one "bucket of water".
Why would Jesus (water) pray to his father (God)(ice) if he was filling the role and how could the Holy Spirit (Steam) desend upon him when he was baptised or how could his father (ice) say "this is my son, in whom I am well please"
Waters forms are liquid, ice and vapor, just like Gods forms are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
I would agree that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost cannot be the same thing at the same time, they are all one as God just like liquid, ice and vapor cannot be the same thing at the same time but are still all one as water.
Ok but that still doesn't answer how Jesus and the Holy Spirit were together at the same time. Jesus being baptised and the Holy Spirit alit on him as "a Dove".
Like steam rising above a pot of hot water?
That makes two different things. Water and Steam. Still not both at the same time.
Neither is Jesus being baptised and the Holy Spirit alit on him as "a Dove".
Jesus and the holy spirit (the dove) is two things as well...and at the same time. so it can not be a 3 in 1. two parts were at the same time which makes two things. with your water and steam it is the same two things...so if you believe in a trinity, you believe in three gods. That is just how it is.
I am not the one who believes in three Gods and trying to explain them as one. <shrug> I learned to count at a very young age. And three is three...and one is one...
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