Do you think human beings really evolved from primates?
- klevifushaposted 11 years ago
0I want to see more science about the stuff that holds stuff together. I saw one documentary recently that was fascinating, but my little ones made a lot of noise and I missed some of it.
If I ever learn to use the foxtel remote control I may find it again.
Fair enough question, however it begs the question, how did the aliens who purposely placed us here originate? Were they purposely placed or were they a product of evolution. If the evolved, why can't we have evolved?
"Scientists around the world are beginning to accept the theory that human beings could have actually been genetically engineered from superior alien species."
How is this possible that science would begin accepting such a preposterous notion? No empirical evidence exists to even form a hypothesis. No other outside life force has come forth to show it exists or that it had anything to do with human creation. Nor have they left clues as to why the up and skipped town like a deadbeat parent. How could they even begin to construct tests to determine whether or not it is possible? What parameters of experiment can be applied using present...umm...unknowing of alien life?
This only furthers shows how blind the left side of Theos is. Coming up with new ways to pretend they are not religion, because they have 150 years of mechanical toys as proof.
Side bar: There is no empirical evidence of human evolution either. Humans seem to be the only creatures on this planet not directly effected by the evolution of nature itself. In fact, they seem to be "left behind" should the timetable be even remotely accurate. 4 million years is a long time to figure out how to make fire, a wheel, bend light through melted sand tubes called fiber optics and that burning fossil fuel is bad for you.
JamesWhat utter nonsense. No scientists are "beginning to accept," any such thing.
We have plenty of evidence that we evolved. Why would you start a thread like this with a lie?
You wouldn't happen to be a Christian would you?
You think that's funny?
How about believing in a sky daddy from a 2,000 year old myth?LOL Evolutionists don't accept any such thing.
Admittedly - it is slightly less far fetched than your Invisible Super Being, but - not much. You liars for Jesus really astound me with the lengths you will go to to attack anyone who does not believe the religious nonsense you push. I thought lying was a sin and your Super Daddy told you not to do it? How does that work?
Of course we are related to primates and the nonsense that started this thread is a total lie. We are primates. Read a book or two why don't you?
If you place your hand on the base of your back you will feel the remainder of your tail, as we dont need to climb trees anymore we dont need our tail
No - we were placed here for a reason.
"To everything there is a season"
Not only does everything come and go, in due time, but everything has order - not chaos - and a purpose for being.
one simple sentence can really say so much!- Sherlock221bposted 11 years ago0
Seriously? You expect people to believe that just because the human race (or primates - whichever came first, I suppose) became separated (geographically or in some other way) the populations suddenly split into more than one species?
Only an Evolutionist could believe that one species would, without proof, suddenly become two yet, at the same time, this singular split was a once in a few hundred thousand millenniums occurrence. What are the odds of that??
I tell ya, if a Great Dane and a Rottweiler can make babies, since they're only different breeds among a singular species, then why can't humans and primates since it's "believed" humans and primates share common ancestry? If humans and primates cannot interbreed, as I believe they cannot, then there is no reason to believe in a singular common ancestor.The salamander example is fascinating....
My thoughts run differently (I am really, really, so totally against this evolution deal. lol)
I think the differences were intended and manufactured by God through creation. That's my explanation for primates & humans, too. I think God created primates first, in his attempt to create man (God is imperfect, therefore it would take more than one attempt) and, being disappointed in the result, kept going until He was satisfied. (if at first you don't succeed, try, try again)
I also look at it this way - If I'm wrong, I'll know it after I die. 
My assumptions of evolution are Biblical, not scientific.
I do have new questions to ponder, however. Such as: why can a horse & donkey breed? Why can a horse & zebra breed? Are they different species or simply different breeds of the same species? What makes a species? (damn! these questions weren't exactly answered in my Anthropology class!!)
TIC Publishing, that is a fascinating tale about the Russian biologist. Crazy, but interesting.
There seems to be some evidence that Neanderthals did mate with humans. A trace of Homo neanderthalensis DNA resides in a portion humanity's population. Perhaps humans interbred with Denisovans, too.
Not to get religious, but my research in Genesis shows that as a literary work it seems to contain many layers of meaning, including a biblical timeline compatible with those in science. The upshot of this is that Noah's Flood on this new timeline coincides with the disappearance of Neanderthals -- 27,970 BC. Suddenly, the enigmatic "daughters of men" takes on a new meaning. Interbreeding with them brought down wholesale destruction. The only wickedness or violence that the Flood could have solved, if it indeed was a real event, would have been one that has never been repeated since that date. The only thing that seems to fit this description is the current inability of humans to mate with Neanderthals.
Why would that be wicked? If the purpose of awakening the sleeping spiritual component were jeopardized by the failure of a human-Neanderthal hybrid from creating civilization, then such a situation could be considered "wicked" by any superior force (aliens, God, or whatever) interested in our spiritual future.
There is one interpretation of the Sodom and Gomorrah story which has bestiality as the reason for their destruction. If sex with animals had become institutionalized over a number of years or decades, and if the "impossible" likelihood of a human-animal hybrid was realized, then the same wickedness could have been involved. Too bad for the twin towns of wickedness and naughty fun.
If the 1927 Russian biologist had not been stopped with his experiments, I have to wonder if France might have suffered from a storm of heavy meteor showers aimed at the Russian's laboratory.
How strange that your "research," does not gel with accepted knowledge. There is 100% utterly no evidence of a world wide flood and the Neanderthals did not die out all at the same time. Perhaps you could share your "evidence," instead of stating nonsense as fact?
As you called another religionist on exactly the same thing.
Otherwise - it appears as though you are simply sharing religious nonsense.Thank you, E.G. If you had asked nicely, I might have discussed this with you. But seeing that you already made up your mind and call anything you don't understand "nonsense," well,... why bother?
I do understand. It is nonsense. Continually calling into question my comprehension skills is not helping your case and aptly demonstrates the root cause of the conflicts your religion starts. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I do not understand.
Why would I ask nicely when you insist on claiming intellectual superiority over me and tell me I am not understanding something that you do understand?
Once again, you appear to be mixing science into your belief system as if you believe it adds some sort of credibility or makes your beliefs valid in some way. Compatible? Hilarious.
Recommend1! B.S.? Don't hurt yourself using such big words.
But a very interesting point you made about transmission of oral history. I like it.
TIC Pubs, I became aware of one example of amazing oral tradition in the TV mini-series, Roots -- the true story of a man's search for his past -- his roots. He finally found the tribe of his forefathers in Africa, and after hours of recitation, the story came to that of his ancestor who had been captured by slave traders. Alex Haley had finally found proof of Kunta Kinte in Africa, right where the tribe was described to have been.
But there might be more ways of transmitting such knowledge than merely oral tradition. If indeed spiritual forces are at work in the universe, then why not a Jungian "universal consciousness" -- a permanent body of knowledge in the "mind of God?" The spiritually adept might be able to read such a record. I know it's not as fancy as scientific discovery.
On the subject of Noah's Flood, skeptics like to say "there's no proof," as if that proves something. But that's an "argument to ignorance" (a logical fallacy). It was said a few decades ago that Atlantis could not have existed because there is no evidence of civilization existing that long ago. What shallow logic that is. A few years ago, archaeologists found evidence of buildings and sculpture at Gobekli Tepe, Turkey dated right about the time of the destruction of Plato's Atlantis -- 9500 BC. That, by itself, doesn't prove Atlantis, but it blasts the heck out of the "argument to ignorance" used against Atlantis a few decades ago.
But would a skeptical scientist have the ethics to report such evidence if they found it? If a brave soul like Luis Alvarez were to find such evidence, we might stand a chance of hearing about it.
Trying to make sense of Genesis is not an easy task. It takes logic, creativity, an understanding of the culture and it also required a little mathematics (one of my specialties).
First of all, the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs is bogus. Look at Gen.5:2 for a major clue. Also, why did a loving God give such outrageous protection to a liar and a murderer, Cain. Simple answer, He didn't -- it was code for a formula and an even more startling discovery of the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" embedded in two chapters of Genesis. And most scholars think the Kabbalists didn't exist until the Middle Ages.
Interesting to discover that they were around when the Bible was first written/compiled.
What's also interesting is that an American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave two dates that exist on my biblical timeline, but he got them from his Jungian "akashic record." My dates calculated from Genesis were within 1% of his rounded approximations -- 10,434,130 BC for Adam, and 27,970 BC for the Flood.
Was the Flood real? Who knows. There are many scientific problems with it. Was the story merely a metaphor for some other agency of destruction?
But the real killer question is "why?" Genesis only mentions wickedness, violence and a corruption of flesh. If Homo sapiens was the only hope we had of spiritual awakening, because of their ability to create civilization, would mixing the gene pool with Neanderthal and even Denisovans create a corruption of flesh and a wickedness thwarting the spiritual purpose? All other forms of wickedness man has continued to do. So, the Flood or whatever, did not cure those. Genesis has left that question unanswered since it was written. God was pleased by the results. Gave a rainbow as His promise never again to use the Flood. If not Neanderthals, then what would have been the need for such a drastic action?
Whether Homo sapiens were merely evolved, grown in a testtube, or genetically engineered, this species is unique in its ability to create civilization. If God exists, and His children had fallen asleep under the influence of physicality, Homo sapiens would be something worth protecting in its pure form.
On another Hub, there are pictures of comely young female Neanderthals. I can imagine some Homo sapiens males getting aroused, especially after months of denial or a night's worth of drinking. If no human woman wanted you, would you (as a male) find these "daughters of men" intriguing possibilities as wifes?
I did Jacob,
I agree with you.Not at all - you lied when you posted your thread - scientists are not coming to believe any such thing - it is a crackpot view of one crackpot that a few people have written up to make a few dollars out of gullible people, you bought these books I guess
The outright lie with which you started this thread does not exclude the possibility that man might be descended partly from alien DNA, or that aliens landed here and deliberately engineered us. The original sin of the lie however does stop people discussing it.
We've only been, seriously, hunting for proofs of evolution for a century.
Hi Qwark.
Your statement is soo true. However, for me, the theory of evolution does more to prove the existence of God than to disprove His Existence. I cannot accept the idea that primates & humans have a common ancestor, unless the common ancestor is God.
Since man was created in God's image, from the earth, and God also created all creatures - presumably from the earth - as well as having created earth itself, I have to believe His "DNA" or skin oils (or what have you) was basically embedded in the earth and became part of what He used to create all creatures & mankind. This would explain the 96-98% shared DNA between man, earth, & creatures.
jmho. Just a thought. Hi RAf:
What is this god thing yer talking about?
You know to expect that response from me
Qwark
Volataire:
The "primate" Homo/sapienssapiens, is an infant species which has "evolved" an awareness of itself and of its surroundings that no other form of life has...as yet.
I've written this before in the forums and in hubs: We are infants in our crib. We are sentient creatures trying to make meaning of all that surrounds us. We are kicking, squealing and reacting to everything our 5 senses can respond to.
Knowledge and wisdom come with time. WE have gained an unique ability to "understand" and react "willfully."
Lesser life would respond "instinctively" and ensuing response would be a "learned response."
There is no doubt that we exist far below the first rung of the "evolutionary ladder."
We are reaching.
If we can make it thru this century without experiencing a massive, population reducing catastrophe, we may be able to finally reach that "first rung" and "progress" with light speed into our future and become a successful species.
At the moment, the odds seem to be against us achieving that goal.
Of course everyone in the forum knows me a being a "forever pessimist.":
Qwark
- Sherlock221bposted 11 years ago0
I checked out those links:
"Uncommon Descent: Serving the Intelligent Design Community."
Those guys are lying, the first article talks about proteins and their assertion that proteins could not have evolved. Absolutely hilarious considering how much we know about proteins.It is not possible to verify any of it - as none of it seems to be available for one reason or another. To add to the list, in Kent southern England a miner friend of mine found a perfectly round ball in the coal that appeared to be very hard black steel, about 1 inch diameter, that he assumed would be a big ball bearing. Some official took it off him and it was never mentioned again, and yet another conspiracy theory was born
- Sherlock221bposted 11 years ago0
I love how you put that, psycheskinner
I've had the same thing happen to me and had the same feelings result!
I think that it is a modern arrogance when people say that we are 'advanced' and ancient peoples were 'stupid'.
They worked out how to hunt, cook, make tools, speak and ultimately write. After more than 2000 years of 'modern' times we have weapons that are little more than an extension of throwing a rock, we managed to invent the microwave so that morons could drag themselves from their computer 'game' to heat a magic plastic bag of processed mush, and with the gift of speech and writing that our ancestors took so long in developing we txt each other trash, talk about entertainment gossip and write the total crock of BS that we see in these threads. I doubt if even one of the so-clever modern man could make even a block of soap for themself to stop stinking - let alone invent it"The fact is man far excedes all the animals on this planet in so many ways it is almost mind-boggling. And you seem to dismiss that casually... "
Not really. We exceed other animals by degree only, there is nothing we do that doesn't have primitive parallels in the animal kingdom. Many different animals use tools, for example, and several other species have sophisticated language systems, including whales and prairie dogs. There is even some evidence of the sensation of awe in chimpanzees, which could be the beginnings of religious faith.
Additionally, when you consider that biologically modern humans have existed for 200,000 years and it took us 190,000 of those to invent agriculture (something even ants can practice), and another 4,000 after that to come up with civilization, our accomplishments seem a little less impressive.
"Richard Goldshmidt, in the, "Material Basis for Evolution, stated that a new theory of evolution was necessary since the required transitional forms in the fossil record were not being discovered."
"Another hole is the apparent lack of transitional fossils. A transitional fossil is the 'missing link', NOT-every fossil-, but the fossil that shows a species in between species. We have never, not in the lab, nor in nature, nor in your fossil record, obseved any new species arise from another. NEVER! Cannot be shown to be real. "
Richard Goldshmidt doesn't understand the theory of evolution, and neither, apparently do you. No transitional fossils have been found because EVERYTHING is a transitional fossil. Every individual of every species that has ever existed has been on its way to turning into something else, including you and me.
We haven't observed one species suddenly turning into another because it doesn't happen suddenly, it happens over hundreds of thousands or millions of years. Last time I checked, the human lifespan rarely extends beyond 100 years and the scientific method has existed for only about 500 (2500 if you want to be really generous and count the Greeks), which is still about 1% of the time we'd need to actually observe both the beginning and the ending forms.
"For example, if birds evolved from dinosaurs, we might expect to see a dinosaur with wings, on its way to becoming a bird. Several of these have purportedly been discovered, the most boasted about being a bird named Archaeopteryx, but more and more it seems to be accepted that in fact this bird was just another bird."
It's considered to be a primitive bird, but it had a mix of both bird and dinosaur features. There's some evidence, incidentally, that T-Rex may have been feathered. It was a close cousin of the dinosaurs that turned into birds, although it wasn't smart enough to go down the same path itself.
"Explain the Cambrian Explosion?... You cannot, evolution does not account for it."
The so-called Cambrian Explosion is a somewhat outdated concept. Pre-Cambrian precursors to many of the species that were once thought to have emerged suddenly in the Cambrian era have now been found, and though life certainly did diversify impressively during the period, it is now known that it didn't do so significantly faster than in any other period of Earth's history.
"There is also NO example of NEW information being created, or the front-loaded process of it insertion, into DNA. None... and do not sling that Down Syndrome BS the others tried, duplicate info is not new."
Mutations increase the genetic diversity of a species. That's all you need for evolution to take place.
So when I see FACTS that show the regular progression in fossils of species development to their current development and some one proposes a theory that explains these FACTS - that is the same as you having FAITH in nonsense? When we replicate the process in a laboratory and PROVE it happens - you say this is FAITH?
I think you need a better dictionary. LOLOLO
Like I said - you need a better dictionary. Willful ignorance and mis-using words - well that is Christians for you. This is why your religion has caused 2,000 years of war. 
Ah. Another one tells me what to do.
It is a way of bringing you down to their level. You cannot use facts or reasoning, therefore their religion is the same as believing scientific facts.
This one is just a troll who likes to fight and cause as much conflict as possible like a good Christian should. It says to do this in the bible apparently. Go figure.
LOLOLOL Of corse ya do innit.
I do not believe in this theory. God created us and the world we live in. Looking at our beautiful world alone is proof that something bigger is in charge. How could all of this come from nothing? It gives me peace to know that someone is looking out for me and has a plan for my life.
- So goddunnit with no proof?
yes but we evolved not as hairy anymore
except for Tom Jones, he is still evolving
- Sherlock221bposted 11 years ago0
That should be a winner, particularly as you actually have some knowledge instead of bits and pieces picked up over the net. Go for it!
Yes Wild... dismiss them all because they do not agree with you, that is fully expected of the Leant Left today.
That is just the way you all are, fortunately the rest of us actually listen to all sides and base our conclusions on what they are saying and showing to us.
Not just let our bias dismiss them out of hand.
You have dismissed them all, even the quotes from others who have all the needed requirements, also. Your dismissive bias is on full display... we can all see it.
If someone in the fields, no matter how much experiance they have, how well regarded they are, speaks in contrary to you and your beliefs.... they are dismissed.
Funny...Yes, TM, read the words and then change them into something that agrees with what you want them to say. That is expected of the Rabid Right today. You do understand that I dismiss them not for what they say ("I don't believe") but for the way they said it? It was pretty clear, after all. They are dismissed as a group of which half has no discernable expertise or knowledge to contribute, which throws the intent of the whole into doubt.
That is just the way you all are, all too willing to change what is said to what you want or expect to hear. Fortunately the rest of us actually read the words and accept them unchanged, with no effort to twist them into the opposite of what was plainly stated and meant.
Not just allow our bias to change the words and their meaning into something more acceptable to us or expected from one with different views.
I do indeed dismiss them all. As I very clearly stated the group has presented no arguments and no evidence. They saw fit to include other names in what I can only conclude is a misguided effort to lend credulence to their belief rather than present such arguments or evidence. They request that others do the work to promote their beliefs rather than doing it themselves. In my opinion their credibility takes an enormous hit whatever their beliefs are. All are scientists (even the computer programmers could very loosely be termed that) but all have left behind their understanding of scientific methodology to present an emotional argument based solely on the value of their name. Is that clear enough for you?
If someone in the fields, with experience and knowledge I don't have, with thoughts I haven't had or with conclusions that I can follow speaks....I listen. Can you say the same? I know I have watched as you yourself dismiss out of hand as "nonexistent" any and all the evidence for evolution. Evidence that very definitely exists but is wiped from the slate as it might prove to be the undoing of your own fantasies of ID.
Methinks you have very often exhibited the very fallacies you (untruthfully) accuse me of.
Funny....
- Sherlock221bposted 11 years ago0
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