Dad, 3 girls. 1 boy. No it's not right. Yes, he knows that he is doing something that isn't (normal | right | moral | correct | fatherly).
The reason why horrible things happen in the world when people could have stopped is because we have become too sensitive to other people's ways. A cat is a cat and a dog is a dog. Both piss on the rug sometimes and both have to taught that it's wrong.
Fix it. It's bad.
Ken (the person that some people will hate after this but he still supports profiling, the death penalty, and spanking kids when they misbehave)
There is a key piece of info missing here.
Besides being a "spoiled brat" (which maybe you could explain in what ways),
does the daughter give any behavioral indications that something is "really" not right in her relationship with Daddy?
In other words, are you seeing any signs on her part that she's being abused?
In reading the many (and varied) responses here I think you've gotten a lot of good advice.
And a broad spectrum of possible actions to take.
Before calling in the authorities, how about simply saying to your boyfriend, "It makes me uncomfortable when you walk around nude in front of the girls. You know, girls start to get private about their bodies at a certain age. Have you thought about that?"
Kind of a neutral but hopefully evocative question.
I believe you'll be able to tell a LOT by his reaction.
Also like the idea of talking (if possible) to the ex about his habits while married to her...
Good luck to you.
This is ridiculous...
If your gut is telling you it's wrong- it is.
Secondly, why ruminate about it so long? Is he worth the effort?
Thirdly, are you addicted/codependent/in love/desperate for him so that you cannot walk away on your own terms (whether you report it or not- although I would if I were you just to keep my conscience clear to DSS and let them decide.)
It sounds to me like you are not courageous enough to make a descision already, and put your feelings of love or lust for him on the back burner and LEAVE.
"Is it right for a father to shower with his daughter?"
I do not believe that this title got a 109 responses!
I do not believe the detectives have not spoken with this man as of yet.
I find pathetic that it is even an issue of what to do. You can fix your relationship, you can fix a misunderstanding, you can fix all the rest of it... YOU CANNOT FIX THAT LIL GiRL ONCE SHE IS MOLESTED
To think you should wait and risk her well being, because it might damage YOUR relationship is selfish, and it is ignorant, and a looser route to take.
Shame on both her and him.
Going back to my own response earlier in this thread, your number 1 priority in this, as a woman, is to protect those children.
There may well be nothing untoward going on, despite all these suggestions to the contrary.
Speak to him, speak to social services if you can do that in private - you don't want the girls carted off to some care services when there really is nothing wrong in the first place.
Be there for them! I know they are not your kids, and if they act like spoilt brats around you, then they probably resent your being there which is normal for kids from a broken relationship.
But you are the adult here, and that makes it your responsibility to make sure their relationship with daddy is healthy.
I say again, keep your eyes well open.
If you do decide to walk away, please report your partner's activities to social services. That way, someone will be keeping an eye on the situation. If you walk and do nothing, then it will be on your conscious if they are abused.
I totally agree with every word that IzzyM shared. Like you, HouseSeller, I was raised in a strict military household, but that had nothing to do with whether or not it is normal for a father to bathe with his eight year old daughter. That's just wrong on any level. If the dad can't see that, then he needs some training on what is considered socially normal. My answer to your question is no... just... no!
Dear Houseseller, in my personal opinion I find that totally and completely wrong! I am 57 years old and have been raising my now 8-year old daughter singlehandedly since she was 3. I would not even think of doing something so morally wrong. My daughter and I have a very loving relationship as father and daughter. I try to instill in her, proper values and something such as that would be totally unacceptable - it's just wrong!
This is really out of the norm for me. As a mother, I teach my daughter about privacy. I see it as inappropriate.
My concern for you is that you have already swallowed your values for someone else and that is a dangerous line to cross in a relationship. Relationships and marriages are hard enough with out compromising your beliefs. I hope this doesn't upset you, but I think you are in the wrong relationship. In even the best relationships, there comes a time where you feel that love is not enough. It usually comes from feeling overwhelmed and goes away, but in the thick of it knowing that you gave up some of yourself to accept things from him can lead you to the end of the relationship. Above that, as a woman, you must consider the possibility that you may give this person a child (on purpose, or by mistake). This is the way he parents and that will not change with the addition of your child. Is that what you would want?
Perhaps he should be with an exhibitionist. There are no scientific studies that I have seen showing negative effects on kids raised in nudist colonies. As a matter of fact, I read somewhere that they are desensitized by it and feel nudity is not a big deal.
I don't think this issue is about nudity. The OP says he has slept with his daughter, kisses and cuddles and 'all that' [whatever that is], every time she is around. He denies any kind of strange behavior and was very concerned with the OP's reaction.
If he is that open with his 'need' to cuddle and kiss her, what do you think happens when he is alone with her? That is not normal behavior, no matter how much some want to justify it. An 8 year old girl should not be cuddling and kissing her father every time they're together. If he has groomed the daughter to feel nothing is abnormal because he's that way every time she's around and he doesn't try to hide his kissing and cuddling, it allows him to feel safer.
After reading all the OP's posts again, I think it's clear there are some red flags waving.
For me, it is wierd, bizarre, unacceptable, freaky and a taboo. For crying out loud, what happened to the girlfriend? You shower with your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or mate not your daughter. Just call 9-1-1 before it is too late. Thanks
[glad to be back again. Love you all hubbers]
Firstly, It's WRONG! Secondly, It's Not YOU, and lastly, I would have a talk with the childs mother and let her handle it. As for being repulsed, If you truly love this man, perhaps a heart to heart is in order. However if he is " attached" to his daughter as you expressed above, then chances are he will see nothing wrong with his behavior and choose her affection over yours. Either way you have some difficult choices to make. Best wishes and always stay true to your morales!
there is nothing wrong with this if you people didnt know there are alot of familys out there that are nudist an theres nothing wrong with it they live 75% of there life nude even there kids do it an theses no law agest it on your own house as long as theres nothing sexulay goin on just look it up sorry tell you this but thats just narmal for some people
That is gross. Not only is it disrespectful for the "father" to shower with his daughter, but it is unmoral. Boys and dads should not see their daughters private parts unless it is an emergency or he is changing her diaper, helping to potty train! And girls do not need to "see" the private parts of the father unless he is prepared for "thoughts" to go into her head and questions about sexuality. Good grief. My advice to you would be to check out James Dobson's family talk online about these issues. It is a moral issue, and it undermines any values you are trying to raise in your kids on sexuality. No kid needs to see their parents private parts unless they are prepared to enter them in the world of sex talks. And people can say "nothing is going on sexually" all they want to, but kids have a vivid imagination and just do not need to be exposed to that.
so its wrong to be a nudist or anything like that? nudist familys rase there kids nude then see them nude all the time dont mean they want sex becuz of it
Ok, I work in the education and child care field and the text book answer is to be open with children about anatomy. We aren't supposed to treat the body as a bad thing. Educators of young children are taught to talk frankly with the kids and even have dolls that are anatomically correct! When changing a child we are taught to call the body parts exactly what they are named. If an altercation between two children happens (very normal) we are supposed to explain that our bodies are our own and the only people allowed to touch our bodies is our parents and doctors. Children are very smart and especially in this day and age know about the opposite genders parts as early as two or three if enrolled in childcare or once entering Elementary school - Kindergarten ( if they have been sheltered their whole life - trust me their friends will tell them).
However, do I think a father should be showering with a child that age... NO! I'm not saying the father was right but he had previously been a single father and sometimes it is hard to let your children grow up. We want them to stay little forever. Certainly more information is needed and as far as the cuddling and kissing goes if the child is acting like a "spoiled brat" it should be cut down to a minimum. Sounds like she's got the Daddy's girl syndrome. I'm more concerned with the child's behavior at this time than the father's. I have had a boyfriend in the past who was very affectionate with his daughter and it may be a possibility that the girlfriend is jealous or maybe even exaggerating for "shock value". Keep in mind that I'm not condoning the situation, any child above the age of three or four is old enough in my opinion to shower on their own. To the Author, there is nothing wrong with you and you should leave if it bothers you. I agree that I would not be with someone who did that or at least didn't make an effort to change the behaviors. From my own past experiences it seems like you will have far more problems in the future with that family and you should get out while you can. Just think about when those girls are teenagers!
A word of thought for those following... Would this situation be such a big deal to all the commentators IF the roles had been reversed and this was a boyfriend repulsed by his girlfriend showering with her eight year old son??? Something tells me it wouldn't have been as big of a deal with it was a mother showering her son than a father showing with his daughter. Seems slightly sexist....
I agree 2,000% with TMMason that there are Red Flags all over this one.
Is losing a man worth the risking the healthy emotional future of these girls?
I don't care which side of the coin you look at it, there are boundaries within a household that should never be crossed. This man lost his wife and replaced her with two playmates. If you think sex has not crossed his mind and probably the 8 year olds mind as well, you are fooling only you. Children are wiser and much more aware of their sexuality today than when Ricky Nelson was a boy.
Can you imagine Harriet Nelson soaping up Ricky Nelson in 1957? Or Dr. Huxtable showering with Rudy in 1995?
What would you think if you saw it on a rality show in 2012? Would it happen?, but it's happening under your watch.
I'm sorry just still in shock there was a need to ask this question
I agree with Kimberly... Little girl or boy, they're not some intellectual fodder or toy....they're life's most precious sweet things to nurture and sing.....they deserve a world of magic, not adult oriented tragic......give them a fairy or elf to be true, let them stay young a moment or two.....life will demand much soon enough, but childhood my friends, is the most precious of stuff....
First off, I would not do anything so harsh as i've seen in this thread! If you call social services or the authorities I can tell you they will take this as abuse without any second thought. They will take his children and ask questions later! There's no question about it. I've seen families get destroyed and it take years to get a child back and they were completely innocent of all charges! A simple phone call can destroy an entire family. And sadly the children were sexually abused at their foster home! And this is usually what happens!
Don't call on the guy! Ask questions to him...change his mindset! I used to know a guy who did this... he was a single father and he had done it since his daughter was a baby! He, nor his daughter, thought nothing of it! However, if you talk reasonably with him, explain if someone, like her teacher finds out that they could view this as something that it's not, like the hubbers here, and he may lose his children!
Don't cause this man torture unless you know for sure he is actually harming thius child! They don't care about finding out the truth...they will take the children and it will take him years to prove his innocence! It's not a cut a dry case like everyone is saying! They don't just let the innocent have their children back...it takes foster homes and psychologists and sometimes they deem the guy guilty even when he's not! Be careful of what you do...you may do more damage yourself than you could ever know!
Just talk reasonably to this guy! If he were abusing his children I don't think he would openly do it in front of you! Pedophiles hide their crimes! They don't let anyone know and they teach the kids to keep secrets! I don't think this is the case here! It sounds like a father who has waited too late to put boundaries! You should simply have a serious heart to heart with him! Tell him the consequences of his actions if someone outside his home finds out about it...that his girls are getting too old for this sort of behavior!
Call the social services on him and get out of there immediately. Walking around naked and showering with the daughters is the last straw. Abuse takes many forms and he his on the way to committing the ultimate one - sexual abuse.
No that is not acceptable AT ALL, I agree with Phoebe Pike, that he may be sexually abusing his daughters. He should not be walking around exposing himself in front of his daughters, EVER! He definitely should not be showering with them. You should research some information on that and if it continues I would suggest you ending your relationship with him and I would call the authorities or dcfs too. As a domestic violence advocate I know a lot of situations where kids get sexually abused..that is child abuse or child sexual assault. Even if he is not touching then, which more than likely he may be, I don't know but his behavior without touching them is still unacceptable.
I agree - the OP should have gone with her gut instincts. I'm curious as to what came of this, too. The showering is just one of the abnormal signs. He also spent a lot of time on her bed, and the child appears to have been given the idea that they (she and her dad) have a 'special' relationship. The amount of touching the OP mentioned is extreme.
Talking with the guy would be a waste of time - he will only find ways to hide his behavior and to justify those things that aren't hidden. All the warning signs are there, and the professionals should assess the situation.
I hope we get some sort of update on the outcome.
I am COMPLETELY with you on this one, Marcy!
I think the comfort of the 8 year old says a lot. It's been going on for a while, to the point of normalcy. These children would never even report it because it's their way of life - they've been indoctrinated to his exposing himself, and they to him.
You know, just writing about it gives me the creeps.
I can't imagine standing by watching as incest - or even the implication of incest, goes on and I do nothing about it. I wonder if she's silent to maintain the relationship. I'm sorry, but no man is worth the sanity and safety of a child.
I can't imagine drinking my coffee while my lover showers with a naked child. It just screams wrong.
Houseseller, I would love to know the outcome of this situation. Specifically, what course of action you chose to take.
The topic of this Hub has offered much water cooler debate, heated - I might add.
If you're still an active Hubpages member, I look forward to part two. I hope and pray that the girls are okay - even the eight year old.
I just stumbled across this and I have to say I'm sickened. Not by the father, but by the person charging this man with inappropriate behavior.
If it was a woman, doubt anyone would even care. But it's a guy showering with his daughter. Who cares? Does he touch her? Does he molest her? Do you have ANY proof of abuse? Nope. He is just a father that enjoys being close to his daughter. Sorry you came from such a strict household where your father would rather play Boss then have a great relationship. What exactly is wrong with the male body that she can't witness it? To me, her being 8, I wouldn't personally shower with her. But that's not my life.
How DARE you call CPS on this man!?!?! He gives his children love and affection. He clearly provides for them. Save CPS for REAL issues. I'm so sick of men being placed into the pedo role if they get close to their children. But if a mom showers with her son or lets her 4 year old breastfeed, that's totally okay.
We are born naked. Clothes are man made tools to protect our body from the elements. It stands to be said that we are NOT supposed to be clothed every second. That being naked in front of your daughter is wrong. I think people on here are way to stuck up. It's not incest. There is a difference between being naked and engaging in sexual acts.
Let me guess, OP: You grew up here in the United States, the only country in the (first) world where nudity of any kind is clearly evil and clearly sexual.
Im sorry but there is absolutely no reason for a grown man to shower with his daughters, something is definitely wrong no matter how you look at it or what politically correct spin people are trying to put on it. That is weird and disgusting, an in my opinion your reaction was the right one.
So all nudists are wrong? All tribes that shower together are wrong? How about along time ago when houses were tiny and you showered in front of the family? It's only sexual if YOU make it sexual. For him it might just be fun bonding time. Or quicker. Women in this country assume any guy wanting to be close with their child to be some sort of pervert pedo.
Now if there is really abuse that would change everything. If she doesn't want to shower with him or doesn't want the attention from him then yeah it may be wrong. But they are happy and doing something natural that has existed since the start of time.
Oh no! A father is kissing and cuddling with his daughter! How very perverted!
Certainly, in my travels around the world, I have found many of the beaches to be clothing optional, and have also found that those who have a problem with it and don't participate are women from the US. In their minds, they equate the naked body to perversion, and obviously the OP equates cuddling and kissing to perversion.
It is these "hangups" that US women are well known for around the world.
And since, most other countries don't view these things as perverted and have no perverted intent, we can conclude that it is those US women who are the ones having perverted thoughts and intents.
Shame on them.
What kind of kissing (family kiss?), the OP being raise in a conservative(Christian?) family might find his boyfriend's parenting style as abusive, but nudity within family members in places such as Eastern Europe, Japan and Brazil is consider normal.
Why should that just bother you? That is WAY inappropriate. You should be asking yourself why he is doing that. 8 years old is WAY too old for a daughter and a father to be doing anything with their clothes off. I was that little girl and I still remember all of the heartache of those years. We still don't have a relationship and I'm now 33. I promise it's not just showers.
Whatever mentioned was truly wrong with an 8 year old but everyone has posted so much that I have nothing more to add.And I wouldn't say talk to him,complain to police ect.Its been 2 years,surely some or some action must have been taken.I am sure this issue must have been resolved for the OP/Houseseller so why add more information when the OP itself is not there.If you wish to add information as reference then continue but I would not do so as the one for whom this is intended has left the discussion some 50 posts ago and besides,anyone else tired that this discussion is going round and round like a circle with the one for whom it was intended has left?Who will keep track of their question for 2 years.Surely I would not.And also despite commenting on different things everyone lands to the same point-both the child and the relationship get damaged.
P.S:I am a girl too,and this was wrong but as said earlier I will not tell you what to do.It's your life.Who are we to tell you to take decisions of your life.And if you are still a hubber then everyone would like to know what course of action you took in these 2 years so that they can stop drawing an endless circle.Besides has anyone noticed that quite a few hubbers who posted a lot on the first page have disappeared by mid-second page?Probably they too were also bored and tired by this endless stream of of conversations and no,it is not right for a girl,whatever age,to bathe with her father.
First off- We do not have enough information to judge you or your boyfriend. Nor do we know the history of his family before you entered. As an educator and a probation officer-we all need to be careful with our quick judgement. It is obvious the situation bothers you. And it is normal, given the child's age, to question in-proprietary. Keep in mind,the child's developmental growth. Typically you may be co-bathing when the child is 2-3 yr. for safety reasons and getting the job done correctly, not to mention water conservation. The typical 4 yr. old is wanting to spread their wings with an insurgence of independence. They are unaware the world is,actually, not revolving around them. They are dressing themselves -or attempting to do so; they like to make their own choices during play and even meal times. A typical 3 yr. old questions their body parts and compares them to yours. There is no reason, one would think,a healthy independent 8 yr. old has any need or desire whatsoever in showering with any adult. It comes down to this- a 8 year old is brushing their own teeth, dressing themself, making more independent choices for every day life skills, and becoming more self reliant in tasks. So it basically gets down to social/emotional reasons. And that leads to your dilemma. The cuddling doesn't bother me, I don't know to what extent of course, and I don't know the circumstances leading up to the parents break up. I do agree and promote the idea of communication. Approach him with the child developmental milestones and the need for fostering independence as a female yourself! Relate your story, your memories and of course, your fears as you observe a young female child still showering with her father when there is no need,nor positive effect. That may lead you to why he is okay with the idea. Because, that is the main question here. He is the adult, he is the one that is initiating the behavior. Why?
I slept with my daughter at her age 8 in a hotel room on visiting rights. It was grounds to take away my daughter away from me for 10 years. I never touched her we, we had clothes on wail in bed. North America have sick panic over action to sexual related cases without knowing the facts.
I would not shower with her, yet there are custom that do allow it. The only rule is no sex until age 18. Not personalty into incest because I think it's healthier to mix the bloodlines.
My fiance and I just read your post. We both agree that something is wrong here. If she were a young toddler and needed supervision during bathing time it would be more appropriate. At the age of 8 you start to remember things more. Have you tried asking him why he does this?
Get away now, and call the Child Protective Services now! This is NOT normal behavior! Please do this child a favor by calling CPS (and inform the cops). We adopted our daughter through foster care, and she came to us when she was seven. If nobody ever called CPS on her biological parents, I can't imagine where she would be right now. Also, if the biological mother is a decent person, this call may help her gain custody.
Also, I read in one of the above comments that your post was old, and that you should assume action has been taken. No, even if this bothered you a long time ago, you don't know if anyone had taken action. Never assume, especially when a child's life could be at risk. Call child protective services, and let them know! They'll investigate, and decide if further action is needed.
They are right call cps. I have three daughters, as a father, and a smart person, I know that that is disgusting. You are not over reacting at all. Call right now. I understand being close to your children but this is totally different, and should be investigated by the police.
Basing myself on Leviticus 18:1-7, I think this kind of father-daughter relationship is immoral, or at best risky. First of all, the father is not teaching his daughter modesty and proper gender boundaries. Second, this lack of boundaries could lead to incest or abuse. Third, what is his motivation for this practice? You need to have a serious conversation with him, and follow up with the mother.
This is very disturbing. No it is not normal for a daughter to take a shower with her father. Does anything else point to anything weird like a relationship that is more intimate?
I dont think it is right for a dad to shower with his daughter. I have a daughter and son and I wouldnt let them see me naked, it just seems a bit odd.
It seems odd because we have been raised in an age of prudery. The church poisoned the well of common sense with its over-protective attitudes about modesty and propriety. Skin is something common to all of us, and we absolutely need to purge the idea of nakedness being lewd, indecent, or immoral. Most of the worlds social ills could be cured by being open, not only with our bare bodies, but even with our sexuality. Ask yourself, why is pornography a multi-billion dollar per year industry? Now answer this question: would porn be a multi-billion dollar per year industry in a fully clothing-optional society? I live in an area that goes below zero degrees in winter... OK, clothes... I get it. But it also has many days in spring thru fall in the 60-80's... why shouldn't I run around in the buff? What am I hiding? The same stuff every man since Adam has hidden. But wait! That's not true! In Plato's Republic, Socrates says very matter-of-factly that people in the winter will be clothed and shod, but in the summer months they'll be unclothed and unshod. The philosopher Diogynes, who admittedly was a cynic, was masturbating in public one day. When people asked him why he was doing it, he said (paraphrasing) "If only it was as easy to cure my hunger by rubbing my belly [as it is to cure my sexual appetite by rubbing my...]" You get the picture. Interestingly, no one called to have him detained, or jailed, etc. No one called Child Protective Services to see if any toddlers had been traumatized by the proceedings. In one or two of my Hubs, I lament the fact that parents alienate their children from intimacy after they're weaned. It's criminal that we draw these artificial boundaries based on the sheer lunatic ravings of the church, and then we are plagued with sullen, bored, ill-tempered kids who feel unloved and unwanted! Really?! What a shocker!
Introduce nudity into your household whenever it is comfortable enough to do so. De-stigmatize that which couldn't be more natural! Try this on for size... I don't have much respect for the church, but when one of them actually gets something right, it's worth noting:
From our late friend, Pope John Paul II
"The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendor and its beauty... Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness... Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person...The human body is not in itself shameful... Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person."
I seem to have a totally different outlook as most everyone else. I'm a female who hopped in the tub with my Mom and often my two younger brothers until I was maybe 10 years old. She was a completely loving Mom and would never do anything to hurt anyone especially her children. There was nothing whatsoever dirty or sexual about our time in the tub. I don't think that for the mere fact that this father showers with his 8 year old daughter that something is dirty about that. The thing that concerns me is that it was mentioned that the girl is a spoiled brat. It sounds like this man loves his daughter and wants to bond with her so I would ask what makes you categorize her as a brat. Does she act out when she wants something she can't have or is she acting out for no apparent reason and being whiny or mean? She could be acting out because her Dad spoils her (and she wants something or she wants all his attention and feels threatened by anyone else getting any of it) but she could also be acting out if something has happened to her by somebody which would more likely show up for no apparent reason.
I can tell you when you will know for sure when he has gone too far.
You will know when she comes to you or him and tells you that she is pregnant. At this time, he'll be arrested. The baby will be forced to be aborted because of incest and abnormalities. And, it will be too late for anyone to do anything about the situation.
She'll be out of a father and you will be out of a lover.
Hoping you have enjoyed the comments you received.
Of course no, but at certain age yes. You can take a shower with your daughter at the ages from 1-12 years old, after that No, because this period the girl starting to grow up and become a teenager girl instead of baby girl. So in this time you are prohibited to look at her body.
Oh My God! This is really insane and abnormal. This is indeed a crime!
Fathers suppose to teach good thing to their children. Specially their daughters because had to leave their parents home and go to their in laws. And is this father teaching to her, such things?
No, no, absolutely not. I've personally been there myself and can say with confidence, NO!
I showered with my sister until we were about 8 or 9. Then it got uncomfortable for her as she started to mature. But even if I shower with my husband the tendency to want to help wash, scrub his back, etc is there. And the daughters being younger are at an eye level to create quite a curiosity about daddy’s body versus theirs. And that is the age when modesty should start happening but will be overcome if the bathing habits continue. Young girls are already so unaware of how they sit and how things they do can bother others unintentionally. In 2nd grade, I opened the door on my parents bedroom once as my Dad was coming around the bed naked to answer the phone. I was so scared and bothered for weeks that I was going to be in trouble but nothing was ever said. Now if he’s German, they are quite casual about bodies there, as in Japan as well. So again viewing and bathing there is one thing. But here in the US. if they even talk to their friends about it, I’m sure a friends Mom would report him as well hearing that. And I wouldn’t let my daughter play over their again, especially sleepovers.
If something makes you uncomfortable, then it's not right for you.
The girls are helpless i think.The father is taking advantage of the situation which is scary.The bond should be friendly but there should be a zone.
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|Conversion Tracking Pixels||We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.|