Has Any One Else Lost Their Faith Or Beliefs On Hub Pages?

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   calpol25posted 12 years ago

   I ask because I cant believe that so called members of the church such as pastors, and other clergy as well as so called christians think that by attacking people such as the LGBT, Atheists and any one else that will not conform to a book is honestly doing a good thing.
   
   Recently I asked several questions to a misguided pastor who believed he spoke for god, and wondered if any one would answer this as he declined to answer, I was a christian but having seen some of the bigoted, hate filled hypocritical threads on here by certain people, I dont believe any more.
   
   The questions if any one would like to answer are as follows
   
   1 - What God, if he exists would dicriminate against who is allowed to believe and who is not?
   
   2 - One of the commandments states that thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife, nor his ox, nor his manservant. I thought christians were against slavery but seemingly a man servant is permitted.
   
   3 - What God would hate his own creation?
   
   4 - What gives you the right to judge another?
   
   5 - When you decide that some one should not be LGBT and you try to throw religious passages at them, Are you aware that your actually causing more damage than you think? And if some one listens to you throwing these passages and then lives a lie by denying their true selves and then becomes gender confused and does something drastic like suicide Are you on judgement day going to take responsibility for that?   
   
   6 - And one more question one I meant to ask a while ago, when you start preaching about how wrong being LGBT is, do you sit an exam in bogotry and hatred to learn the different ways to upset people? or does it come naturally?
   
   
   
   Please If anyone is brave enough, do answer me, would really like to know your answers as I honestly do not believe any more after seeing some of the extremist and disgusting bigoted comments...

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Welcome to the world of the deluded religious folk of the world.
      I didn't believe nor was I of any religious faith when I began writing on HubPages. However, I did ask a priest some questions when I was younger and when he just pointed me back to the bible, I knew he was full of it.
      Rules which are to be followed and dictated by said G/god. It doesn't matter whether or not it discriminates against anyone. It's irrelevant. Meaning, do as you're told and that should be good enough for you worthless(unworthy) human. You don't need to understand, just follow.
      Slavery? Come on. Come back to reality.
      Those who refuse to listen and follow as instructed. Wouldn't you begin to hate a dog that wouldn't listen?
      According to the scriptures, only the righteous are allowed to judge, but then again, in order to be righteous, G/god must pronounce one righteous, which isn't possible to begin with. You must be dead before G/god can judge whether or not you are righteous. Which means the belief absurd.
      Yeah, so much for love and compassion, huh?
      Why would they have to take responsibility for it, when all they have to do is repent and they are forgiven.  
      It's been instilled in most. The others are pure ego based.

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         calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Absolutely agree with you whole heartedly Cagsil After seeing the attacks at athiests, LGBT and any one else because of their Elitist book I cant be done with the hypocriticalness of it anymore, its almost as if they make the rules as they go along

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         calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         A definition of rules - they are created for the wisdom of fools and the guidance of idiots - douglas bader 1939

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      rbe0posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      1 - What God, if he exists would dicriminate against who is allowed to believe and who is not?
      
      The problem here is that people think homosexuality is unnatural. I choose to trust people whether they are gay or not and I believe people when they say they were born this way. And even if they weren't born this way, why would anyone care, it's what they are naturally attracted to. This discrimination is a product of ignorance and fear.
      
      2 - One of the commandments states that thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife, nor his ox, nor his manservant. I thought christians were against slavery but seemingly a man servant is permitted.
      
      More important here is the idea that thou shalt not covet anything in general, not just these three specific things. And as for the slavery reference, who knows wtf these crazy people from ages ago were doing when they wrote this book. They were probably high as mutha-f-ing kites all day everyday, running around enslaving the indigenous peoples of the world and stealing their illegal substances.
      
      3 - What God would hate his own creation?
      
      Hmm... This is a very tough one, because god is a harsh critic of himself? Or maybe because God as an individual doesn't exist. God is actually the collective consciousness of everything in the universe, intelligent or not, alien or human, biological or non-living, it is all God. I choose to believe that the fairy-tale of God being in the form of a man is just an attempt at waking people up to realize that you and I are both god, and so is everyone and everything else. It is you and I and everyone else that determine what goes on here on Earth, we are literally the gods of Earth and together we determine what happens here. Modern day bible thumpers have horribly misunderstood what the symbolic meaning of a person who is god actually promotes.
      
      4 - What gives you the right to judge another?
      
      Fear is the basest of emotions that ignorant people operate with. Love is the basest of emotions that enlightened people operate with. Greed is the basest emotion that confused people operate with.
      
      Fear is what these people use to rationalize that they have the right to judge others. That or they are just ignorant.
      
      5 - When you decide that some one should not be LGBT and you try to throw religious passages at them, Are you aware that your actually causing more damage than you think? And if some one listens to you throwing these passages and then lives a lie by denying their true selves and then becomes gender confused and does something drastic like suicide Are you on judgement day going to take responsibility for that?   
      
      I doubt that someone who does this is aware of much of anything at all, other than the fact that they are scared sh!tless by the doom and gloom preachings of many modern day misguided religions. And by operating thru fear they think they are doing the right thing. Don't worry about whether or not these people will be judged, they are already living in hell. Their own personal Hell right here on Earth. Hell is also a misinterpreted meaning from the bible. Heaven and Hell are both symbolic of your state of mind while you are here on earth. You can be living in hell or heaven right here, right now. It is ironic how ignorant bible-bashers have no concept of this and don't even realize they have already been cast out of heaven and down to hell, they don't have to wait to die before they are punished, God's justice is immediate.
      
      6 - And one more question one I meant to ask a while ago, when you start preaching about how wrong being LGBT is, do you sit an exam in bogotry and hatred to learn the different ways to upset people? or does it come naturally?
      
      No, these people are doing nothing intellectual with their lives. A better word for them would be Sheeple.

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         calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         ROFL
         
         They are the best definitions ever rbe0 have laughed hysterically

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            rbe0posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Glad to have caused more laughter today. Someone lots smarter than me said that laughter the best medicine.
            
            Funny thing is that these are my beliefs that I operate with everyday, except for the thing about whoever wrote the bible being mutha-f-ing high as a kite. That was more of my imagination at work.

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               calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               They are best beliefs you should start your own religion with them, i mean alot of thought and effort must have gone into making the so called Christianity one so why not have one of our own.
               
               I can imagine a sermon...
               And blessed are those who are being mutha-f-ing high as a kite.
               He who believeth in drugs shall be rewarded
               lol lmao ROFL

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                  rbe0posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL - if a guy got up and said that in a sermon i would have to think that he was mutha-f-ing high as a kite himself.

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                     calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I would definitely listen and probably go because it would be hilarious

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What do you, or anyone else expect when the world is so cast in darkness and negativity. This is what we were told to expect, so much so, that the churches are also. Who said that these times would be good? False teachings are everywhere. Why do you walk away from the Spirit, when what you say it was people  who have hurt you? Jesus himself taught very rarely in temples, having been cast out of more than one? Some people think that being gay is evil...why do YOU listen to them? What you do is between you and God. No one else has any business...unless you make it their business. Just don't blame God for your troubles, blame those who trouble you...they have a elementary understanding of their own beliefs.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Applauses, ...   Smiles widely ...   Herr- here ...  etc and etc.

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      Don Crowsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      1 - What God, if he exists would dicriminate against who is allowed to believe and who is not?
      
      So the good priest pointed you back to the Bible.  Obviously you should have paid attention.  The Bibler declares that "Whosoever will may come."  So there you have your answer.  This obviously includes liars, thieves, prostitutes and homosexuals. 
      
      That's thats the only question I am going to answer for you because I know how this board wants to twist every Christian believer into a Pharisee.

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      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Speaking as a natural atheist (exposed to religion by my parents but I never believed any of it) I would say that is completely the WRONG reason to abandon religion.
      
      Religion can bring great comfort to you.  If you recognize that it logically cannot be possible, that comfort is denied to you, but it is ridiculous in the extreme to say that you have embraced atheism because of the ugliness of SOME religious people.
      
      There are truly beautiful and wonderful people who are deeply religious.  They would never harm anyone or speak ill of anyone.  They are people I admire greatly, but it would be insane for me to say that I would become a believer because of that.
      
      I think that you need to rethink your position.  Your personal beliefs in this area should be driven by your own heart and mind and not by either the opinions or the actions of others.
      
      (If you have no knowledge of me, ask around.  I am a nasty and quite militant atheist who bitterly dislikes many of the things you complain about.  I am no wishy-washy, everybody is fine agnostic - but you are so very WRONG that I have to set you straight)

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         Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         +1
         Wow, Tony, that is a totally awesome post - one of the best I have ever seen, bar none. 
         
         You have said something similar to what I want to add, more straightforwardly than I am going to say it - but here is my addition, anyway:  @calpol25, if a person claims that someone else's behavior has made them change their mind, then they are not genuinely, actually, truly thinking for themselves. 
         
         Along with that, I believe (and I'm not trying to say that Pcunix does) it is true that someone else's behavior can be one factor in evaluating the validity and effectiveness of a belief system; but even then the evaluation should take into account everyone you know who believes the same way, and it should also compare/contrast all of these same people both with and without those beliefs (and that might be nearly impossible to do).
         
         For me, one of the hardest aspects of "growing up" was the realization that I might agree philosophically with some people that I really strongly disliked, and I might disagree philosophically with some people that I strongly liked.  It happens.

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I am forming my own way of thinking and if it takes chatting with people to do so, then so be it. I think the only way we'll ever get to the truth is by hashing things out with people and their ideas.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         exactly
         there is much persuasive evidence that points to the bible and to God being the only real truth

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      blondepoetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh Cal I don't have the answers for them petunia blossom but you have asked some good ones there.
      I am one for respect, treat others how you would like to be treated,be kind, loving, give to those less fortunate, do not discriminate against your brother or sister. xxxx

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   calpol25posted 12 years ago

   Some one out there must have the answers as they seem to have answers to everything else?

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      lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have answers for each of your questions send me a reminder on Jan 8th - I'll reply then - I'm busy with my exams

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         calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I will do lobo

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            lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Great - if you do have a calendar or some sort of place where you keep a list of things to do mark it down - as I have no such thing
            Regards
            Brandon

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               calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Have done it now will send a reminder to you after exams and good luck with them too

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   melbelposted 12 years ago

   Really interesting thread. I have nothing particularly thought provoking to say at this point, but I'll definitely be watching this thread. I bet there will be a lot of interesting responses.

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      calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I know its not everyones topic but its really interesting to see what people have to say

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It won't be interesting to see what is said. It will certainly be interesting to see "who" attempts to justify their position.

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            calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            like that one l

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               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So far, the only person of faith on HP who has the ability to go toe to toe with me, is Sir Dent. He happens to grasp the bible on a level many others on here don't. He has faith in the mystical aspects of the bible as well as understanding it's scripture(as it's written, not from a metaphorical standpoint).
               
               However, I'm not sure he would be willing to post to this thread.

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                  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Why dont you think he would?

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I'd rather not say, because by saying so, it might prevent others from attempting to do so.

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                        calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree,

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   Pearldiverposted 12 years ago

   You should have asked Ernest this one!

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      

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   calpol25posted 12 years ago

   I wish Earnest was here actually his response would have been the best, I miss him terribly today

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   SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years ago

   ...where's flippin' BO (i like that short form btw)...he'll have the answers.....answers for whateva his twisted mind can come up with........
   
   ...sorry, i'm Canadian, eh? yeah?.......i just had to say it....he must be in purgatory right now..............
   
   ....i don't mind if people have beliefs as long as they are gentle with it.......

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm pretty sure he got a time-out for his statement in another thread. And, I certainly hope he did.

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         calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah he did, aaaw cant hub pages let him back in for this thread and ban him again when its finished??

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            SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            ...yeah bring him out...i'm in the mood to.......rrrroooooaaaaarrrrrr........and then ban him........foreva and eva....cuz he's a twisted looney tune.....stuck in his island shack reading the bible upside down and in the dark.........while surfing the net for whateva suits his fancy.................................................

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               SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               .....sorry....Canadian eh? yeah?

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                  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I am British so should I  apologize too

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                     SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                       it's a Canadian thing...we seem to apologize for everything here...however, there are lots of Brits in Canada...so sure......go ahead and apologize...i'm listenin'!

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                        calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Im sorry am British, lol and eventually want to visit canada so will apologize then too

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                           SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           ...hey that's cool....just remember...when your feet touch the ground in Canada, smile and then apologize for sumthin'.....we'll luv ya!

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                              calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I will do

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               calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I am ready to roar too...

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         mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Me too Cags, what he said was appalling and a terrible 'advert' for Christianity. Actually his comment was scary in many ways, so much bitterness and hatred. If that is what his religion is all I doubt many would want any part of it.

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            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I've not seen him around since that statement, so it's safe to say that he was given his due. And, deservedly so.

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               mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Good news, I got vibes of pure evil and bitterness from what he posted. Nasty stuff and someone who is anything but 'Christian'. Made me feel quite sick reading what he said about Ernest.

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                  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  your right there mistyhorizon that BO is just evil personified

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            calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I agree the mans comments were disgraceful and hopefully he will apologize for it, not that it will make any difference because that repentance stuff is never gonna make up for what he said...

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               SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               ...he's busy bangin' on his "drum" in the dark....

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                  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  ....ooooppppps.....sorry again, eh? yeah?

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                     calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     lol he like banging on that drum of his - maybe he is building a new soap box to preach from - My turn ...Sorry

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               mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I doubt he will care, people like him never do. If there is a hell however, one small consolation is that he has already got loads of mileage to get him there when his time comes

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                  calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  True and if hell does exist I hope I get to be the one to put him on the escalator personally

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                     mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     LOL, Can I help?

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  

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                     mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     A bit like 'Frequent Flier Miles', only in his case they would have to be 'Frequent Tunneler Miles' I guess

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                        calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        lol ofcourse you can help and we can see how he likes skiing upside down

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      brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There is no purgatory

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   calpol25posted 12 years ago

   I like that short form too
   I hope BO comes with answers I could do with a laugh

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   pedrogposted 12 years ago

   Hello calpol25,
   
   i'm glad you are becoming to thing for your self.
   
   That kind of bigotry is very common among religious people, i really can't explain it, maybe they find something in their holy books, who knows...
   
   Well, about some kind of god... Do you know something about the Universe? Do you know how vast is the Universe? Do you know how the Universe works (actually nobody really knows ) ? Does this match up with any definition of god who you know of any religion in the world?
   
   I sure it doesn't...
   
   I'll add the mediocrity principle for you to search for.
   
   And never stop to ask questions, no matter how impertinent they are!

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      calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi pedrog thanks, I have decided to go my own way and not be dictated too by an Elitist book written by bigoted people, And I promise to keep asking questions because after seeing some of the threads that so called religious people have posted I am actually ashamed to have been Christian and am now finished with it.....

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         pedrogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You are never alone, even if you can only find people like you online.
         
         To tell something about me, i was raised catholic and was a believer till my 15 years old and then i stopped believing in fairy tails, and i'm glad it happened so early, to my father it happened in is 50's...
         
         We are brainwashed to believe this things written by some pastors in some desert 2000 years ago like is some great truth to guide our life, and above all, do not question this so called "truth", well i choose to not to do so, and it is always great to know people that grown out of this kind of conditioning, and then my faith in Human Kind is restablished .
         
         Ill leave you with this quote:
         
         “I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs.”

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            calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I like the quote and I know excatly how you feel, I was christened church of england, raised a catholic and sent to methodist sunday school and now having seen all the hatred and bigotry as well as the hypocrisy in its true form, I really think religion should not exist and common sense should in its place

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               brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               that goes against everything the bible teaches
               Glad you are out of catholicism though
               Thats a step in the right direction

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   yieldwayposted 12 years ago

   Hi everyone,
   
   I think religion is a discussion which will never end. Religious books like the Bible, Coran etc have been written hundreds of years ago and many don't really don't understand it because of some language barrier....language has evolved with years! Many pastors use religion to manipulate people but I think that people should think for themselves and it's not because some pastors aren't acting correctly that people should lose their faith... Each one is responsible for his/her behaviors. You have 2 choices: be good or be bad and you are still the one who makes your choices ;-)

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      calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi yieldway your right about the 2 choices
      Thanks for posting too

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    Aficionadaposted 12 years ago

    Hi calpol25 -
    
    This is a good thread topic, and I'm glad that you posed the questions.  I actually just dropped in to glance at the forum threads before going to bed(it's after 1:00 AM here), and I really had no intention of answering any until I saw this one.  But there's one more problem for me (personally).  Besides being late at night, this is an extremely busy weekend for me.  I will answer briefly right now, and then I will check back when I can - but it may be Monday before I can be as thorough as I like.
    
    I am really sorry, more sorry than I can say, that you have lost your faith because of people who have posted messages that offend. 
    
    I hope you can remember that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."  In other words, just claiming to be a Christian doesn't cut it.  Jesus also said, "By their fruit you will know them." So, if some people create nothing but arguing and discord wherever they go, they are not displaying the kind of love that Jesus taught.  It's hard to believe that they actually are followers of His, no matter what they call themselves, if hateful arguments are the only result of their conversations.
    
    I have no doubt that many people who speak up on important issues believe they are doing the right thing.  Their confidence in themselves doesn't mean that they are right.  Remember that there are also many other believers who stay out of the religious forums as much as possible.

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I understand that Aficionada I do and thank you for posting and hope you do check back but, unfortunately no amount of passages from that so called book will ever restore my faith,  I cant physically believe in something that at the end of it will allegedly discriminate against me, nor can I believe that a book can state that if you repent all is forgiven no matter what the crime. But if your LGBT your not forgiven.
       Nor can I believe in a religion that by its own admission permits a class systems of sins such as one is greater than the other..
       
       Am sorry but I have no faith and no wish too have on anymore...
       
       Thanks for trying

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       pedrogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Well, here is late too... It is 6:49 in the morning to be more accurate...
       
       Quoting the bible? Really?! Does any one still goes for that kind of thing?
       
       Like you say in English, cherry picking, choosing the verses that suite your point does the trick? I can quote the bible too, and i'm sure you will not agree with the verses i will "cherry pick" .
       
       The bible is not a moral guide!!! At least not for our time and culture, not by a really long shot...

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          calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Agreed there pedrog and its the same time here in Britain as it is where you are x
          They always cherry pick and the best laugh is not one of them has the guts to answer the questions..,.. Rbe0, cagsil, you and  answered but these people are scared to answer because they cant answer it.....

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       brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I wouldn't believe that if a hot poker were behind it.
       People lose their faith because they want to or they were hanging by a thread anyway.
       
       If ya don't like what christians are doing then step up and be a better one. Ya don't do christianity because all other christians are an excellent example ( they are at some point in their growth so whatcha moanin about). Ya do christianity because you believe in God and you do it for God. Think ya won't make mistakes? Think ya won't ever be angry? Thats just BS because you will make mistakes along the way - everyone does... but you get back up and press on ahead anyway.
       
       God is not gonna care who you point a finger at. He only gonna ask, "what have you done with my son"?
       
       Good luck with that

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    logic,commonsenseposted 12 years ago

    Just my virginity! 

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       lol

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    whoisbidposted 12 years ago

    Lebanon would be a good place to find a mixture of people getting on, even though they all have their own beliefs

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe we should take a leaf out of their book

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    calpol25posted 12 years ago

    Still waiting for some one to answer these questions

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    GoldenBirdposted 12 years ago

    One's happiness and peace and living a good life do not depend on making another person understand what it can not. One can only wait for the other's enlightenment. (Sometimes, words are frail instruments.)

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks GoldenBird

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    MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

    I haven't lost my faith in Christ on HP, but my faith in humanity has been tested... often.
    
    I think one of the biggest problems (on both sides) is the confusion of Christians with Christianity.  Christianity is a big place filled with lots of different kinds of people.  On these forums you have a range from BO (who I will most certainly be banned again when I finally get a hold of) to Motown (who is probably the kindest person I've ran across on this site). 
    
    If Mo has an opinion on LBGT issues, I've never seen it.  BO has an opinion on seemingly everything...
    
    As far as the Bible goes, there is exactly one verse that is quoted about homosexuality, and there is some question about what the original meaning of the verse was (ask LiveLonger or DS).  As far as everything else in the Bible there are two main issues (and a few minor ones).  The first being that those who take every single word in the bible as completely literal seem to forget that Jesus taught almost exclusively in parables.  The second is that the events in the bible and the culture in which they occurred was vastly different than the situation we are in today. 
    
    The second point should really be important to both sides.  Stoning someone, slavery, etc are horrible. Atheists see it as proof of the "Psychotic" God when it is just a reflection of the era of the Bible.  Just think of what people will think of our society 2000 years from now.
    
    I know this is rambling (no coffee) but jumping on the "I hate Christianity" bandwagon is like shooting the messenger.  In this case, the messenger(s) are likely annoying as crap and generally have their own agendas.  And the message they are bringing is very much "their" take on Christianity.  I, personally, would think it was horrible if these "Christians" were such horrible messengers that they caused someone to give up faith in Christ...

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Thak you for posting Melissa, its true they forced me to give up my faith, you should see some of the things they have wrote over the years I have been here and you cant believe that such people could hate like that
       Thank you for straightening some things out too I will be sure to ask about the verses in the bible toward homosexuality..

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       Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       This seems like an attempt to erase something that is troublesome. Why don't you just assume it's a 'reflection of the era' like you have with all the other bad stuff?
       
       
       
       Is the Bible not accurate in its depiction of God then? If not, then how can it be trusted at all?
       
       I mean, I do agree with you, it is a reflection of the era but doesn't that apply to the whole thing and not just the ugly bits?  How can it be eternally divine on the one hand and 'context specific' on the other? How can you be sure which is which?

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          calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I understand what you mean and your quite right

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          MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, the verse isn't troublesome to me at all.  Just pointing out that the specific verse that is most frequently quoted likely means something other than what it is being used to mean.  Homosexuality, in Judea at the time of Christ, wouldn't have been approved of either. 
          
          
          
          I have no idea whether the Bible is accurate in it's depiction of God or Christ.  I actually tend to believe that some inaccuracies are pretty much guaranteed.  All writings should be viewed in context to the authour... that includes time and place of writing and any agendas that the authour might have had as well.  To add further complications, the Bible has been translated and re-translated and doesn't contain several writings/gospels of other authours. 
          
          None of which matters anyway, as most people are going by what their clergy are telling them specific passages mean.  In addition, even what seems straight forward can be interpreted as many different ways as there are readers.
          
          (Once again, think of the sentence "It is a red car".  Sounds pretty straight forward until you realize that the red car you are imagining is likely not the one I am describing)
          
          Now, none of this in anyway takes away from the Bible as a source of divine inspiration.  It just affects how I personally perceive it. Those who take every word literally are completely entitled to their belief and it is just as correct as mine.  However, I don't think that their interpretation should affect mine unless I "feel" (or decide, or have a epiphany etc) that it resonates as truer.

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             livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             We're not sure of that. Jesus never mentioned it at all, except to say gay people are not required to get married.
             
             But this is not to say that the prevailing ethics of the time, or even those prescribed in the Bible, should be adopted today. Much else of what's written is downright backwards by today's standards; maybe progressive for the time, but backwards and often repellent for today.
             
             The problem is assuming that Jesus (or Moses, or Mohammad, or whoever) was proposing that any particular era's ethics were eternally applicable. If they were truly wise men and had the gift of foresight, then maybe they meant that it was incumbent on every generation to be more ethical and moral than the prior one.

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                calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                thanks livelonger that explains it alot better

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                MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Yeah, what he said...
                
                Other than that, in the bible's (or whichever religious book) defense, when taken as a whole, it's not a bad way to live life.  It's when the specifics are brought in and "lawyered" do people start freaking out.
                
                I've said it before but I'll say it again now.  MOST of the stuff in ALL religions is pretty decent and agrees with most of the stuff in other religions, including secular (scientific).  It's the remaining 10 percent that causes all the problems.
                
                In addition, a homophobe is going to be a homophobe regardless.  They will bend whatever idea it is to their belief instead of vise-versa.
                
                I've heard (on these forums) homosexuality bashed on a hygenic basis.  When it comes down to that level of stupidity, religious objection starts looking good.

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                   livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Yeah, what she said...
                   
                   When I converted to Judaism, my role models were those Jews (who, thankfully, dominated my experience with Jewish people) who were "mildly" observant (I've since learned they were either Reform or Conservative). They were not entirely secular, but they weren't the Orthodox type that mired themselves in the finest of details, either. To this day, they're the ones that I think set the model for the religion in my mind and whose behavior I model my own after.
                   
                   I also agree that where religions (and non-religious ethical systems) overlap - the "golden rule" seems to have precedent in most (all?) religions - is where the truth is. I think I might have shared that analogy of the mountain before, but I really do think it applies.
                   
                   And totally agreed that a homophobe (or racist, or misogynist, or whatever) will find whatever justification s/he finds useful to affirm their beliefs.

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                      calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Agreed,

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    mega1posted 12 years ago

    I haven't read this whole thread, it must have happened while I was sleeping!  Man, it's hard to keep up around here.   Well, basically, my whole take on western religious thought is like - see, your parents teach you to be as logical as possible, reason things out, take things with a grain of salt, and don't take any wooden nickels.  Then, they take you on Sundays to a building where they have this bloody man on a cross (and tell you not to worship idols) and they have this book that tells them what to do, and most of it was instructions for life back in the days of the Pharoahs in Egypt (a place I will probably never visit, anyway).  So anyway, how does all this work for us?  It doesn't IMHO - but then, I actually believe in Santa Claus, so who am I to say?  Basically, most religious "philosophy" is about power and taking over people's lands in the name of "God" and telling them what to do, basically its a primer on how to make slaves.   Santa Claus, on the other hand, never bothers you, brings presents if you've been good once a year, and has these groovy, magical reindeer!  So don't listen to all those haters who come around to tease you about how they don't hate and how wrong all the rest of the world is - they are just a very loud minority in the scheme of things.  (which, there may, or may not, be a scheme, but then, that is the theme!  heh heh!)    Love is the answer - that and any of the John Lennon songs can do well getting you through life.

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Agreed

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    mega1posted 12 years ago

    oh, and the bloody man on the cross is nearly naked - its so kinky, I hate to even think that my in-laws put these things over their CHILDREN's beds and forced them to get down on their knees every single night and ask the bloody man to forgive them!!!  oh, we have some problems, but its not becuz of any LGBTs!!!

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       John Lennon's imagine is definitely my fave

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    mega1posted 12 years ago

    "The problem is assuming that Jesus (or Moses, or Mohammad, or whoever) was proposing that any particular era's ethics were eternally applicable. If they were truly wise men and had the gift of foresight, then maybe they meant that it was incumbent on every generation to be more ethical and moral than the prior one."  That is just the most astute thing, livelonger!  I applaud you.  But I hope you realize that if all it took was logic and good sense, these religious disputes would have vanished long ago!!

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Thats true,they would have totally vanshed

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       livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I think every generation has to struggle with the prior generation over these issues. You might have noticed that it's the older generation arguing against any respect for gay people; they might have been arguing against their elders on the topic of interracial marriage.

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          calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          thats very true it is the older generation but they dont realize the influence they have on the younger generation and the trouble they cause  when ever they start any kind of argument.

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             livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Well, it will cause hard feelings, but that doesn't mean we just have to accept it. The rabbi Mordecai Kaplan said "tradition has a vote but not a veto" when it comes to adjudicating these sorts of matters; I tend to agree with him. "[While we must] struggle to hear the voices of our ancestors, [we must also] struggle to hear our own voices as distinct from theirs."
             
             There will always be a tension between generation on issues like these.

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                calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                The rabbi is absolutely right with his quote I agree too.

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    mega1posted 12 years ago

    getting on with it:
    
    

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       lol

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    Jeramiposted 12 years ago

    I don't know?  I think that everyone has faith in something,
    To lose faith in one thing, do we not shift this faith to something else?
    
      Sometimes this is a good thing.

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    Claire Evansposted 12 years ago

    It's very sad that you don't believe anymore because of actions of badly behaved Christians.  Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.  Be inspired by Jesus only and at the same time, do not tolerate this kind of bad behaviour.  Thanks for exposing these types.
    
    I'll take a go at your question:
    
    1.) He won't.
    
    2.) There's nothing wrong with having a man servant.  It's like having a maid and domestic.  They earn a living that way.  Of course I am against slavery, but it is interesting to note that in Jesus' time, slaves often were treated very well and were considered family.  For their services, they would receive accommodation.
    
    3.) He doesn't.
    
    4.) You don't.
    
    5.) Don't know what LGBT stands for but I get that the issue is of a Christian judging a homosexual.  Nobody has to agree with homosexuality and you can say so, but to bully them into being "straight" is unacceptable.  Only God knows what is in the heart.

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    brotheryochananposted 12 years ago

    Being on here has galvanized my faith. I have studied things i would never have studied on my own and everything i study points to design and to God.
    
    Its been wonderful to see what i did not become.
    Instead of bitterness at failure I am at peace and ease, restful in fact.
    Instead of hating, and ranting, i am calm in his grace.
    Instead of just parroting stupid atheist site propoganda i have read inspired text from highly qualified masters of knowledge in all areas and have gained so much more insight.
    
    Christianity is so much easier now that i have entrenched myself in quality knowledge and beautiful understanding.. I am so glad God brought me into His kingdom.

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       pedrogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Can you point me to the exactly enlightened posts, please?

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       calpol25posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       @ BO - Well if your in his kingdom then stay there but some of us have better things to do

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          brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          No you don't

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       A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Here's one of the bro's most enlightened posts, one he wrote for a hubber who recently passed.
       
       

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    olodarkwriterposted 12 years ago

    I have not

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    AshtonFireflyposted 12 years ago

    I haven't lost any faith or beliefs by what i see on hubpages.
    
    What I have lost is respect and faith in humanity, sometimes.
    
    Seriously, though, I see alot of discussion go on which I don't necessarily reply to, but follow. I allow it to challenge what I believe. To cause me to become more knoweldgeable about things I may not have known about.
    
    Other than that, watching the way people respond to things is a very interesting psychological study.

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       brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       it is indeed

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    Virgil Newsomeposted 12 years ago

    Everyone has a choice to make.  No discrimination by God on who can and who cannot believe.  2Peter 3:9  not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.    All means everyone and I am sure you can understand that.  What many have a problem with is repentance.  They want to have what God gives but they don't want to repent or make the change that is required.
     
    
    
    You mean a hired hand?   If I hired someone to work on my house, does that make him a slave? 
    
    
    God doesn't hate His creation.  God hates what man has become in terms of being full of sin and evilness. 
    
    
    If I tell a thief that stealing is wrong, am I judging the thief or judging what he does?
    
    
     
    So you had to bring in homosexuality into the picture.  Was this the whole purpose of your OP?  I mean to get someone to say that gays are evil or something similar?   I noticed the title of your thread implies that you lost your faith because of forum posts here yet you fail to address it in your OP.  What is your agenda? 
    
    As far as denying who you are, Jesus said, "Deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me."   I am not who or what I used to be.  I have been made a new creature in Christ. 
    
    
    Sin is sin no matter what sin it is being committed.  Any preacher who does not preach against sin is not a called preacher of God.

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    Muldaniaposted 12 years ago

    Never trust anyone who claims to speak for God.  I am sure if there is a god, that he doesn't require humans to be His mouthpiece.  People speak for themselves, and believe that if they claim to be speaking for Him upstairs that it gives them added importance.  All any of us can do is speak for ourselves.

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    livelongerposted 12 years ago

    I actually converted to Judaism a couple of years ago, and I would be remiss if I didn't credit those few Jewish fellow Hubbers that I follow here. It took me a long time to convert, but I would say every Jewish person I had known played a part in my eventual decision to convert - they all taught me something and most inspired me with regard to their own behavior.
    
    Since I was agnostic beforehand (sometimes identifying as atheist), I would say I gained a religion (not so much a faith) while on HubPages. Ironic, considering I have no Jewish family, and I'm gay myself. (Religions tend to be homophobic, but that has not been my experience with the vast majority of Jews)

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