This better be good!?!
After all the theories and rhetoric tossed about I finally got the real reason why the raid on Mar-a-Lago.
QAnon believers have a novel spin on Mar-a-Lago raid: At last the "Storm" is here
In delusional TV segment, far-right host explains FBI raid: "They don't want [Trump] to expose the pedophiles"
https://www.salon.com/2022/08/11/qanon- … m-is-here/
Truth is Truth . . .
With one in five who believe Qanon tenents and advocacy one may surmise what at least one segment of the public believes . . . maybe, while remembering 80% of the U.S. gets their news from Social Media.
Belief in QAnon has strengthened in US since Trump was voted out, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … tudy-findsThey are everywhere... There are a few roaming free here/HP.
I guess you missed my point. This is the land of opportunity, everyone has equal and ample opportunity and some, IN POLITICS (not just the Obamas) have much more than opportunities, they can almost be guaranteed massive wealth, if they play their cards right. But, nevertheless and even so, the Obamas, never cease in putting down and insulting this Country.
They do it to this day.
What do you disagree with?To bring out the nation's shortcomings and there are more than a few is not insulting the country. The idea of equal opportunity is taken as a given by conservatives who are content to get their information from "Dick and Jane" primers. It should be and remains a constant objective in all aspects of American life. If he was not effusively praising and "showing gratitude", he was Anti-American? He was "positive" from my point of view.
I disagree with your entire premise.I heard his tapes, but believe what you must. Later.
P.S. Gosh Cred, why is it that you never miss an opportunity to insult me personally.
I was making a point that I don't hate Obama; I don't even hate Hillary, just don't care very much for them. But there is such hate expressed regularly against Trump, I am just trying to understand it. As a result, you see it as another opportunity to insult and belittle me. Why is that?You are the one taking my comments personally, I don't like Trump, how is that insulting you?
I am trying to explain to you why in so many circles Trump is not seen in a positive light, that is if you are really ready to listen?Interestlng. Okay, I'm all ears. Explain more.
The most important:
1.Trump insists that the election was rigged against and continues to whine on the same theme months after the election was over without a bit of proof to support it.
2. Nobody, but nobody can attack the Electoral College process, undermining the correct procedures to allow him a win that he did not earn. He orchestrated the process, and while he may deny it, he has had more than just a passing involvement in the January 6th 2021 assualt of theCapital building.
That is tyranny, and I live in America and I won't tolerate that level of corruption from any public servant, especially the President of the United States. It is akin to shooting the referee in a soccer match. Everybody plays by the rules, or you earn the wrath of Credence which amounts to my complete derision against those involved.
So, yes, he is not on my favored person's list....Thats pretty funny, because you and your kind were conspiring against him even before he began the job. Even after the 2016 election the crying losers stopped in the middle of their sobs to tell us how they were going to take Trump from power.
Even if Trump had accepted the mail-in voter fraud and gone into the dark night you would be on here complaining about something else.Well, Doc When it comes to you and "your kind", the malevolent and malignant Rightwinger, there will always be something to complain about.
That is unti we get them back into the cellar or attic, out of mainstream where they belong.
Trump took on a racist and misogynistic approach in his campaign, and created his own unpopularity with many. As an obvious white nationalist, that might not offend you, but.......
The man from Nigeria ask me a question and As a progressive, I do not deal in fake news.I do not remember the conservative professors giving their students time off to grieve McCains loss when Obama won, I do not remember students taking time off to declare their vengeance against Bill Clinton.
Are you calling me a white nationalist because I dare to challenge your constant whining against Trump? Is that because you cannot find anything more creative to say?"I do not remember the conservative professors giving their students time off to grieve McCains loss when Obama won, I do not remember students taking time off to declare their vengeance against Bill Clinton."
I am not familiar with this situation, please elaborate?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/18/nyre … trump.html
The article and the incident I well remember and that is just the beginning.
Look, Doc, Trump is a jerk, he has always been a jerk. I can't dig deep enough to describe the utter vile nature of this man.
I have a long a long memory and do not forget his unprovoked attack on President Obama questioning his origins and scholarship. Just who in the hell did he think he was? The birther thing, perhaps you recall? Well, If you don't, I do and I hold that against him.
The cheap foray into prime time TV with his narcissistic "Celebrity Apprentice", gathering washed up actors and entertainers to make fools of them.
I trust neither him nor those that slavishly fawn after him.
So, now, marvel over my creative masterpiece.....I got the links. Trump is not your typical candidate.
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/ … sm-history
People of color and women were terrrified as he conducted his campaign race baiting with a great deal of misogynist sauce to top it off.
It was a time to grieve for many, as the person in charge was base in his campaigning like no other before. I had not seen such abrasive stuff since George Wallace in the 1960s.
Women marched and protested practically on the day of Trumps Inauguration, the biggest protest on record to date and that all did not simply come from nowhere.
And like I said earlier, the man is a jerk with a capital J.
https://news.yahoo.com/guest-opinion-wa … 25873.html
I must laugh --- when you make the claim that we on the right have a propensity to complain. Come on, liberals always are whining about one thing or the other, it comes with being a liberal in my view. Conservatives are known to be stoic.
If you ascribe to CNN or MSM in my book you listen to fake news, all contrived just for liberals. I can safely say the majority of conservatives would not consider CNN or MSM as legitimate news.Sharlee, I am just responding to the good doctor's comment that I endlessly complain about Trump, that was all. Conservatives are anything but stoic, more like quite activist these days.
No more than I and liberal progressive minded people would consider FOX, Brietbart or NewsOne as legitimate, so where does that leave us?
Well Cred, who is the man from Nigeria? Am I he?
Yes. Before long he will be calling you a racist nationalist because you do not hate Trump.
I can't afford to hate because that affects my persona and Trump is not worth it. But I can strongly dislike to the point that I will always assume the very worst regarding his motives until proven otherwise.
Yes, that is you, was that an incorrect description?
Good for you. Likewise, I don't know, and I don't live in America. But evidence of vote recounting(?) and electoral malpractise arise awhile ago? D' you deny these as a matter of fact? In politcs, I don't have any favourite candidate. I see them as human beings liable to err. All the past presidents of of America has their weakness. Donald Trump is not the excemption. God save America!
Donald Trump is the exception and scrapes the the bottom of the barrel as no other predecessor ever has. There is NO proof of his whining about stolen elections, so I don't care what Trump and his cronies may say.
Sometimes being a resident gives you a more precise insight into these affairs.
Every wrong in government now seems to be visited upon Donald Trump. Is. Trump still the current President of the USA?
Way to have your finger on the pulse of truth and logic Dr. Mark!
Spot on!
The "something else" would be that Trump might return from the dark of night and be even more powerful, if they didn't somehow stop him!
It's the craziest thing I've ever seen in politics.
A President actually bucking the system and getting things done for the American people.....not working against us, as has been the case for far too long!
He kept us out of war, safer at home with a more secure border. He was following through on campaign promises left and right - at home and abroad! He brought us energy independence.....energy independence!!! Only to have Biden undo it all on day one, why?!?!
Because it was brought to us by Donald J.Trump and the "bucked system" couldn't allow it, couldn't have it!
Enough people had to be turned against him early on and they were, some to the point of no return, but not all. I believe a lot of reasonable people, understand it and now see it for what it is.
But, that doesn't mean that this is settled and all is good. Far from it!I guess it's a can of worms:
The Constitution’s Twelfth Amendment: "Ratified in 1804 after the disastrous electoral deadlock of the 1800 election, the Twelfth Amendment is so ambiguous as to invite these efforts to fill the “who’s in charge?” gap with the vice president, Congress, or the states alone. The amendment says that “the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates” of the electoral votes. Unfortunately, it then directs, in the passive tense, that “the votes shall then be counted.” We believe that the best reading of the Constitution’s text, structure, and history, is to place disputes over the legitimacy of the electoral vote into the hands first of the states, then of the vice president, and then perhaps of the judiciary. But not Congress.
You would not know that from the text of the act. The ECA, sadly, is no longer a dusty relic stored in a statutory attic. As the events of January 6, 2021, showed, it has the potential to cause serious mischief. Protesters rioted on Capitol Hill as the two Houses of Congress met to witness the electoral-vote count and to review the challenges lodged by members of the House and Senate to the returns of two key states. The protesters disrupted the vote count, and the final tally could not issue until January 7."
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/electoral-co … ents-role/Its all CHINA's fault and whoever is behind the BIOWEAPON!
That said, it's all a wreck. Just a wreck. Can we move forward, with this wreck behind us?
- the question is HOW!!!!?To be Free or not to be Free. That is another question.
Another problem is the rapid advance and all-consuming use of modern technology.
It's so irritating.
Oh, those simpler days.
Could elections be tampered with as they were in '21 in the olden days?The 2020 election wasn't "tampered with"
Then we should have a Congressional investigation into it when the Republicans take control and put it to rest once and for all. I think that would resolve it.
That's your opinion. One others don't share.
Oh yes and the government, media and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles who run a global child-sex trafficking operation also.
What was the tampering again? Satellites from Italy? Jewish space lasers? Mules? Voting machines switching millions of votes? Sharpies invalidating votes in arizona? Countless courts and judges completely striking down election fraud claims? How??
I just have to ask, are you an adherent of Q?
I'm sorry, anyone who claims a rigged election loses all credibility on any other issue."Countless courts and judges completely striking down election fraud claims? How??"
By refusing to hear them. That's pretty common knowledge; not a single one of Trump's (Trump's, not other's) suits ever saw a jury. Too late to file was probably the most common complaint, but there were others.
There is exactly zero doubt that there were illegal activities in that election, although personally I very highly doubt there was enough to change it.So true, and so easy for liberals to ignore the fact Trump was never truely heard in regard to his claims of election fraud.
Yes 67 cases brought by his lawyers, most in front of his own appointed judges and yet he's never been heard?
According to the Washington Post (and a multitude of others that I won't overburden this post making it excessively long) , instead of alleging “widespread fraud or election-changing conspiracy” the lawsuits pushed by Trump’s team and allies focused on smaller complaints, which were largely dismissed by judges due to a lack of evidence. “The Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay.”
At the time, Stephanos Bibas, on behalf of the three-judge panel wrote: “Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so." It added: “Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."
Sharlee, you know that I could go on and on and this would be pages long if you want me to go over every case and the outcome of it. But all of his cases were certainly heard. He just didn't get the outcome he wantedMY point most were not heard but denied being heard by Judges. Judges offered many reasons for not hearing the many cases. Some were not heard due to being improperly filed, some were filed in the wrong courts. My point is none were ever heard in trial fashion. Judges just tossed the cases out or the case was just turned down, not heard.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-c … ts-2020-11
Trump's also asked for a special counsel to look into his complaints
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … s-last-day
This would have been the best solution to settle the problem.Truth is he and his lawyers had zero evidence of anything substantial.
The majority of the time he was claiming massive fraud in front of the public but when his lawyers got in front of judges that language wasn't even brought up...
https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-n … nce-fraud/
I think the Justice System is to be blame. The Judiciary likewise.
......and I have some mountainous terrain for sale, here in Florida.
Well I suppose it's nice to live in a country where you and all of us can choose to fabricate whatever sort of reality fits our personal beliefs. No pesky facts needed.
Now you are correct, that is the country we live in, as evidenced by looking at the different "facts" that FOX and CNN provide... of course, it is more than that, because BOTH "news" agencies keep many issues off America's radar all together.
Still, those two "news" agencies are evidence enough of two very different realities Americans can choose from. What YOU consider fact, what YOU consider reliable sources of information, I may consider completely erroneous or misinformative.I don't know that it was enough to change the election results Faye, but it would be awfully naive of me to assume zero tampering occurred, while taking inventory of the vast methods and opportunities provided, due to Covid.
Yes, I would acknowledge it is the paltry amount that happens during every election cycle. Actually a lot of the fraudulent votes went in Mr Trump's favor. So there's a plus for you. Election irregularities certainly had never risen to the amount that Mr Trump and his followers continue to claim. There was no widespread fraud or rigged election plain and simple.
Not true, many of the stories were buried.
Many complaints were never properly dealt with.
Even a few judges couldn't be bothered.
Again, one would have to be quite naive to believe that an election year, which included a pandemic and so, provided vast opportunity to vote...didn't include vast opportunity to cheat.Mr Trump lost the election by 7 million votes. How exactly was that rigged? Was it the satellites that did it? The ones from italy? The space lasers? Hugo Chavez from his grave?Or was it the mules? Because that's really an awful lot of votes.
I have told you more than once, I am not, nor have I ever been, a part of QAnon. Although I must say, I am intrigued by your mention of Italy and satellites, will have to read up on that.
Utilizing reason when considering the millions of things which could have gone wrong, with so many liberties, given, is pretty simple, pretty basic!Q. "How exactly was that rigged?"
A. VIA:
* Massive ballot dumps in the middle of the night.
* Judges illegally changing election laws in the last minute.
* Mailing out 92, million completely insecure mail-in ballots.
* Zuckerberg paid Democrat run counties to follow his recommendations on how to run the elections. (He spent more than 400 million on voting procedures.)
*Ballots were issued to senile seniors in nursing homes, who were coached to vote for democrats.
*Mules who went in and out of voting offices all night long dropping off all kinds of extra ballots, some not even sealed/folded.
*More votes counted than there are registered voters.
*Illegals voting with the driver's licenses they are issued, as though they were citizens/registered voters.)
*No verification procedures followed, such as fingerprint or driver's-license check.
*Many ballots discarded, as recorded on citizen's videos.
*Many ballots not counted because of party affiliation.And yet no one is able to come up with a shred of evidence that any of these wild accusations have any basis in truth
Larry Elder has produced two movies showing footage of 2020 election fraud.
" '2000 Mules' Film 'Hitting Home’ With Likely American Voters."
“Huge percentage of DEMOCRATS say movie strengthens belief in widespread 2020 election fraud”
https://twitter.com/larryelder/status/1 … 99?lang=en
He lost in Georgia by about 11,000 votes. There were many more mail in ballots in that state that went through the post office. Are you unable to accept that voter fraud occurs everywhere?
Fraud occurs in every election, whether it's intentional or not but there was in no way fraud large enough to change the results of the 2020 election. The entire voting process in Georgia was explained in the testimony of the secretary of state of Georgia during the January 6th commission hearings. Mr Trump lost that state fair and square.
What is YOUR proof?
"... but there was in no way fraud large enough to change the results of the 2020 election."
An NBC News poll conducted earlier this month and released Sunday found 57% of respondents agreed that investigations into potential wrongdoing by Trump should carry on.
Also, "threats to democracy ” rose to the No. 1 issue facing America, topping “cost of living.” In a similar poll in May, “cost of living” was the No. 1 concern, while “threats to democracy” did not make the list.
https://www.newsweek.com/threats-democr … ll-173549057% of respondents... so in other words... a worthless poll... who knows what their political ideologies were... but its NBC so anyone responding to NBC is most probably Left of center.
This indicates that 43% of citizens feel that these forms of investigation should not go on. That seems a very large part of those that took the poll are in opposition to these investigations. This is something to think about.
You lost me at NBC polls ... You do know their audience do you not?
This is one that tickles my funny bone: Trump requested an investigation into voter fraud of several types and it is a threat to democracy.
Meanwhile liberals use the entire force of the US Justice System, working for years and years to remove their political rival from the ballot, and there is no threat to democracy as it was necessary (to keep liberals in power).
Comical.More than comical, it's downright hypocritical. I am sorry I find that kind of mindset, truely unintelligent.
If Trump would have been given the respect of special counsel in the 2020 election we all would be privy to facts. He asked for an investigation, and it was refused. This was truly biased and led to all the discontent we see today in regard to the 2020 election.
And It is my view the FBI and DOJ have been weaponized by the Democrats. . Anyone is blind not to recognize that fact. And this needs to be stopped. This is a clear threat to democracy.
Reform includes:
* Outlaw mass mail-in voting.
* Pass, enforce and defend strong Voter ID laws.
* Investigate voter fraud.
* Prosecute voter fraud.Amen and hear, hear Kathryn!
You're much too logical for a few in this crowd.Me and David Horowitz:
https://www.horowitzfreedomcenter.org
The federal magistrate judge who authorized the warrant to search Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate emphasized Monday that he “carefully reviewed” the FBI’s sworn evidence before signing off and considers the facts contained in an accompanying affidavit to be “reliable.”
“I was — and am — satisfied that the facts sworn by the affiant are reliable,” Reinhart said in the order.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/2 … e-00053074"The federal magistrate judge who authorized the warrant to search Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate emphasized Monday that he “carefully reviewed” the FBI’s sworn evidence before signing off and considers the facts contained in an accompanying affidavit to be “reliable.'
Really?
So did the FISA court when reading the FBI lies to get a warrant on Carter Paige. Judges do read what they are presented, they don't expect the information to be mistruths. We have no idea what is on the affidavit. You are assuming the DOJ will be truthful. At this point, I think with the Democrat's reputation for lying to the court I will wait and see what's on that document. The FBI appears to be very compromised, in my view.
"FBI Attorney Admits Altering Email Used for FISA Application During "Crossfire Hurricane" Investigation
Former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith, 38, pleaded guilty today in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to a false statement offense stemming from his altering of an email in connection with the submission of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (“FISA”) application, announced John H. Durham, Special Attorney to the Attorney General."
"WASHINGTON – Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today released a newly declassified FBI document that indicates the Bureau misled the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2018 about the Steele dossier’s Primary Sub-source and, therefore, the reliability of the Steele dossier.
“This document clearly shows that the FBI was continuing to mislead regarding the reliability of the Steele dossier. The FBI did to the Senate Intelligence Committee what the Department of Justice and FBI had previously done to the FISA Court: mischaracterize, mislead and lie. The characterizations regarding the dossier were completely out of touch with reality in terms of what the Russian sub-source actually said to the FBI.
“What does this mean? That Congress as well as the FISA Court was lied to about the reliability of the Russian sub-source. I will be asking FBI Director Wray to provide me all the details possible about how the briefing was arranged and who provided it.
“Inspector General Horowitz’s team found this briefing document. Inspector General Horowitz and his team deserve great credit for uncovering systematic fraud at the Department of Justice surrounding the Carter Page FISA warrant. I’m also very appreciative of the Department of Justice’s release of the FBI document used to brief the Senate Intelligence Committee.”
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/ … le-dossier
This letter fills out the timeline of Mr. Trump's teams discussions with the Archives in the months between the January retrieval and the FBI executing a search warrant on his residence earlier this month.
https://justthenews.com/government/cour … -documentsInteresting letter. It was certainly at the point the letter was written that the archives were not questioning that other documents may be still in the president's possession.
It well seems after the FBI and DOJ obtained the documents they then felt the need to enter Trump's home. They then did subpoena the president and entered his home in June to assess any documents that he may have in his position. he compiled with the FBI request.
Not sure what possessed them to just feel the need to raid Trump's home when it appears he was cooperating.
I guess that's the 100,000-dollar question. Why not another subpoena?
Another thing in regard to the article, although informative --- it presented one side. No responses from Trump's camp. As I said, it seems we always hear one side. I am not satisfied with that kind of investigation. I realize some are, and I realize the media is more than happy to cover
one side.
We know the president should not have taken the documents, we know little else but the DOJ and FBI sides.
So, I will wait to see if Trump is heard. I highly hope so, but if I consider all of the other accusations that Trump has endured and that his side is clearly kept out of the media. However, I do feel Trump will fight like hell this time. And this has given him another club to club the Dems with when he speaks at his rallies.
I am done with the left's propaganda, I have stepped away from this kind of journalism. I see through it. I pride myself on keen common sense.
Note your source only gives one side. In days gone by one would have been provided with the other side too.I don't know why you Right wing types ALWAYS blame the media whenever you don't like the facts.
Anyone with eyes can see that on the surface Trump was wrong from the beginning. He knew better than this, while you people constantly makes excuses for him.
Trump was an idiot for taking the material in the first place. Garland plays it by the book and would not dare risk a political firestorm by presenting a half-assed case. Trump has been asked nicely to return ALL related materials from his basement during all the months after his term ended. He did not comply, thus the warrant was necessary.
------
Last year, officials with the National Archives discovered that Mr. Trump had taken a slew of documents and other government material with him when he left the White House at the end of his tumultuous term in January 2021. That material was supposed to have been sent to the archives under the terms of the Presidential Records Act.
Mr. Trump returned 15 boxes of material in January of this year. When archivists examined the material, they found many pages of documents with classified markings and referred the matter to the Justice Department, which began an investigation and convened a grand jury.
In the spring, the department issued a subpoena to Mr. Trump seeking additional documents that it believed may have been in his possession. The former president was repeatedly urged by advisers to return what remained, despite what they described as his desire to continue to hold onto some documents.I could say I don't know why those on the left take words out of context Read my first two words Then move on to ---" Another thing in regard to the article, although informative --- it presented one side.. . No responses from Trump's camp. As I said, it seems we always hear one side. I am not satisfied with that kind of investigation. I realize some are, and I realize the media is more than happy to cover one side."
So, when reading the article where did you find any information in regards to the other side? It was totally one-sided. The author took no time to investigate or seek any information that represented the other side.
I was commenting on this individual article, one should keep that in mind.
"Anyone with eyes can see that on the surface Trump was wrong from the beginning. He knew better than this, while you people constantly make excuses for him."
Why so argumentative? Did I not actually say that in my comment in so many words? I made no excuses for Trump in regard to taking the boxes of documents, did I?
Do you feel both sides were in this case represents?
Trump was fully cooperating, with the archives as well as the DOJ. Did he not twice let them in to collect anything they pleased?
It would seem you are not facing all the truths, just the ones you choose. Did Trump not let the archives in and sent off 15 boxes in Feb at their request? Did he not respect the subpena for the DOJ to return in June, and collect more documents? The question that sticks out in my mind is why did the DOJ not take every single box that is still sitting in Trump's basement?
I can't question why Trump took documents. or why they ended up in his basement. They were there, and it appears he was cooperating with returning them.
No need to keep me up on all Google has offered, I have scoured Google.Sharlee, you and I argue? never.
But, the challenge still remains as to whose "high horse" is going to go the distance.
You also told me that you are prepared to deal with the legal outcome regarding what appears to be a violation regarding possession of classified documents, however the chips may fall.
I get nervous because in conservative circles, I keep hearing about a "Deep State" and that every government agency has it out for Donald Trump.
It is as if this man can NEVER be found guilty of anything. He is now blaming GSA for packing classified documents without his knowledge, he points to Barack Obama in an attempt to compare, when Obama followed proper protocols and there is no comparison.
If the "boom" comes down are you all really willing to accept it as a fair dispensation of justice?Yeah, we argue, but we are comfortable after all is said, and walk away satisfied that we listened to one another. Kept an open line of communication.
"You also told me that you are prepared to deal with the legal outcome regarding what appears to be a violation regarding possession of classified documents, however, the chips may fall."
I can definitely say, due to my research Trump broke the law when he took those documents. He claimed he declassified them, I see no
proof of that.at all.
I am more than willing to see him charged with any crime, including taking those documents. I hope to see evidence and not just, "he did this", or someone told me he did that". As we have heard thus far in some of the information that has come out of the Jan 6th hearings. Fair?
I am trying to make the point, that just as you said he is never found to be indictable -- maybe he has not committed indictable crimes? Does it not seem he could be charged for taking the documents? I mean we have all been told he broke the law. So, one must ask, why no charge? Maybe
it's a crime that would be hard to prove?
I would hope this all ends up in an open court, and we the people will have the opportunity to get answers, not bits and pieces of media fodder.
Otherwise, we will continue to have two sides, one deciding he is guilty because they choose to, and one side choosing to say, we have not been privileged to both sides.
It's sort of hard to trust the justice system as I did, even weeks ago. I am witnessing confusion and a DOJ that won't tell us what they feel Trump is guilty of. Claiming they hope to "once again protect a whistleblower".
It seems I have heard that one too many times. Ultimately Trump has a right to defend himself against this person's claims --- if there is an actual human being. Any names or identifying information could be redacted.
We need to have information. Otherwise, this will lead to, once again Trump being found guilty in the eyes of many, when we don't really even know what the DOJ feels he is guilty of.
This is still America, last time I looked... One is innocent
until found guilty. We have reverted to mob mentality, accuse and then try to find evidence. And if evidence can't be found, just label the person guilty on the smoke. This is what we have been seeing in regards to Trump. Remember all the Congressmen on MSM saying they have clear evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, and then what about his taxes? There was no there on either accusation. But many still feel he colluded with Russia and cheated on his taxes, not willing to believe the facts.
I would hope we see this latest accusation play out in court, where we can see evidence, and ascertain if Trump is guilty. As of now, we are getting as we always do vague smoke but no gun.
Regarding the source: The letter was first posted Monday night on the website of John Solomon, a conservative commentator whom Mr. Trump named in June as one of his interlocutors with the National Archives. Two people associated with the former president confirmed the authenticity of the letter.
Faye wrote --- "Regarding the source: The letter was first posted Monday night on the website of John Solomon, a conservative commentator whom Mr. Trump named in June as one of his interlocutors with the National Archives. Two people associated with the former president confirmed the authenticity of the letter."
Again it seems you did not completely understand the context of my comment. I in no respect made any claims or suggested the article was untrue. If so please quote me. Where in the world did you get the Idea I felt the letter was not authentic?
My reply -- "Another thing in regard to the article, although informative --- it presented one side. No responses from Trump's camp. As I said, it seems we always hear one side. I am not satisfied with that kind of investigation. I realize some are, and I realize the media is more than happy to cover
one side."
I offered my opinion on the fact this letter offered. I did also say I felt the author did not take the time to give a view into the "other side". Just pointed out what I saw as a journalistic flaw some authors abide by
today, not researching the other side.
It would seem that Cred, and you have the same problem with my comment. You read into it what you wanted to hear. Please reread my entire comment carefully. I should not need to go to such length when my comment was very clear.
Not sure where you picked up I did not feel that letter authentic. Not coolMuch of the letter covers Wall's rejection of a request by Mr. Trump's lawyers to shield the documents from the FBI on executive privilege grounds. Privilege did not exist for him.
But to your point, why would Mr Trump's team release this letter and not the back and forth that happened between them and the archives?
By others accounts, including politico, there are at least 4 other correspondences:
April 12: Letter from NARA notifying Trump of FBI concerns
-April 29: Letter from Corcoran
-April 29: Letter from NSD
-May 1: Letter from Corcoran
I suppose Mr Trump could also release any correspondence from his side.
The current letter does provides insight into the back and forth between Mr. Trump’s team and the National Archives and shows that even though the original 15 boxes were retrieved from Mar-a-Lago in January, federal investigators did not ultimately gain access to them until months later because of negotiations with Mr. Trump’s lawyers.
I also think that people keep leaving out the fact that Mr Trump's lawyer, in writing, certified that he had no classified documents remaining at his residence.
I mean, I think it should bother people a little more than it does that this man took loads of documents to his private residence, some with the highest levels of classification."why would Mr Trump's team release this letter and not the back and forth that happened between them and the archives?"
Simply for transparency --- It is clear in the letter to have a clear timeline, and how did what for who ---
"As you are no doubt aware, NARA had ongoing communications with the former President’s representatives throughout 2021 about what appeared to be missing Presidential records, which resulted in the transfer of 15 boxes of records to NARA in January 2022. In its initial review of materials within those boxes, NARA identified items marked as classified national security information, up to the level of Top Secret and including Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Program materials. (1 ) NARA INFORMED the Department of Justice about that discovery, which prompted the (DOJ) (2) Department to ASK THE (3)PRESIDENT to request that NARA provide the FBI with access to the boxes at issue so that the FBI and others in the Intelligence Community could examine them."
We have a very clear timeline from this letter. How all this came to end in a raid. We had an activist take it on herself to feel she needed to no longer work with the previous president to get the record, and brought in the big guns. We also now show the White House was involved. And that when Trump was subpoenaed in June by the DOJ, he continued to cooperate in returning whatever documents they wanted. This is a very important piece of the timeline in this dispute. But that seemed o not to be enough, and the DOJ conducted a raid on Trump's home.
It is also obvious the DOJ will pursue this, and it seems there will be lots of courts go rounds. We hopefully will be able to be privy to these trials due to the stir this has caused.
The letter does also share much on law precedence which is interesting.
I don't think Trump has shared how the documents need up at his home. He has talked about cooperating and returning them to the archives on several occasions. I also do not know why or if his lawyer certified no classified documents remained at his residence.
I have found no evidence that a lawyer signed anything, all I could find were articles that did not produce a name -- "But CBS News has learned that weeks before the search, a Trump lawyer signed a document certifying that all classified materials had been removed from Mar-a-Lago, according to two sources familiar with the timeline of events and the decision to seek the search warrant." I like names, otherwise, it's just unproven fodder in my view. So you call it leaving out facts. I call it not repeating conjecture.
Why should this bother citizens? Have we not had to endure one investigation after another accusing Trump of all kinds of crimes?
I can only scratch my head when I see the hypocrisy. Were you indignant when truths came out in regard to Russiagate? Are you at all concerned with the son of the President, and all the accusations that are following Hunter, the president, the president's brother? If you want to speculate, let's talk about Biden's...
I find this kind of "hang 'em high" exposes a form of viciousness that endangers social norms. Today it is contagious.Ultimately for me it's pretty plain and simple. When the police officer asks you to get out of the car you get out of the car. You comply. You don't debate it or ask for more time. Mr Trump merely needed to comply.
The DOJ, the FBI had no obligation to handle Mr Trump with kid gloves. When his term ended he became a regular citizen like the rest of us and when he was asked for all records to be returned, they should have been returned immediately. No negotiation, no coddling, just compliance. There never needed to be almost a year-long back and forth over these classified documents. Former White House council Philbin was interviewed and stated that Mr Trump said he believed the documents were his. The man is arrogance to the hilt and he seems to have created his own problem with this one by simply not completely submitting to the subpoena to turn over everything.It certainly appears he was applying. I would assume he let the Archives, as well as the DOJ, have access to all documents. This is a fact. One of the only true facts we know thus far. The letter that has surfaced shows he was cooperative and had ongoing communications with the archives.
Yes, the Trump team asked for more time, however, it seems they were surprised that there were documents that were considered top secret... It does not share any inkling that they were not cooperation with getting documents back to the archives. Just asking for time. The archives in that letter were not asking for any further documents but appeared to be mainly concerned with what they found in the boxes they received.
Common sense tells me Trump may not have known what was in those boxes at all. It has been reported he had no part in packing them and that there was confusion with his aids on what should be packed and what should not be packed. We, including me, should not be deduced what happened. We need facts, and the DOJ needs to supply these facts. This in my view is very unfair to Trump, and to US citizens that hope to hear the truth at this point. We are being pulled into just another investigation where we are adding our own scenarios to what happened.
Maybe time to start at square one, who packed these documents? Was Trump present when the documents were being packed to control what was taken? Did he know what was in those boxes in his basement, and when he found out, what were his lawyer's concerns in regard to getting the documents back to the archives? We have seen one communication between the archive and we have had not one from the other side.
It was obvious in the letter that Trump's attorney was having back and forth with the archives. Perhaps we need to hear their side.
Faye, you are ruminating and repeating the fact Trump should not be in opposition to the documents. Maybe we need to know if he even knew what was in the boxes, and who packed those boxes, were they told to take certain documents? So many common sense questions.
I will say it does not look good that it apparently took a year for the archives to get documents. However, with that said do we know that documents were not being returned in that time frame? I have no way of ascertaining if documents were not offered during that year. These are the facts we need.
Faye, I must asks are you at all concerned with the current problems in the country? I realize fully you are concerned with Trump's problem with these documents, and most likely feel we need the truth due to the 2024 election. But this nation is drowning in problems serious problems that perhaps should concern you. Do you ever recognize our open borders, our economy, crime in our liberal cities, a president that clearly appears cognitively impaired, a proxy war with Russia, and yes Hunter Biden, and the problem he could cause in regard to pay-to-play? Not to mention the enormous unprecedented spending of this administration. Have you missed all of these problems, while concentrating on Trump? It seems odd some can turn away from the state of America to concentrate on once again "let's get Trump".
My worries are the here and now. The problems that are factual. The problems that have weakened our Nation. The problems you seem to have chosen to ignore.
I will repeat, I feel we need to hear each other side. Please consider the unfairness this all portrays. I want both sides, I do not ever condemn anyone without facts. I think this mindset is dangerous.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/1 … o-00052272"Faye, I must asks are you at all concerned with the current problems in the country?"
Absolutely, but I'm walking and chewing gum at the same time.
I'm feeling pretty optimistic about lead pipes being removed in my area, finally thanks to infrastructure money and a visibly crumbling bridge also being addressed at the same time. That's real progress that directly and tangibly affects lives in our little town.
As far as what's happening in "liberal" cities, that's none of my concern is it doesn't impact me. What happens their is under the control of their respective government and their citizens certainly have the ability to vote them out. In terms of the economy, I've always believed it's cyclical as do many economists. A proxy war with Russia? So be it. I see little choice other than cowardly turning our backs on innocent Ukrainians, leaving them to be slaughtered. That doesn't sit well with my faith.
As far as Mr Trump's document dilemma, I am keenly interested because he is quite likely a candidate in 2024.I think you picked something that not many could consider a problem, the infrastructure bill. I myself have not witnessed many complaining about a much-needed bill. I certainly did not add that to my list of grievances. Prior presidents have tied and to. Check Obama's history on infrastructure, he had several bills passed that helped with infrastructure.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … ss/418827/
Trump
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/30/71867723 … how-to-pay
2021 results of Trump's perposed bill --- https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-h … al-2021-11
Crime does not impact you? Me either... But is this what we want to see in our society? Don't the citizens in liberal cities count when it comes to passing out rights?
This war is killing people, people in another country. In some sense, they are dying because we have decided to pay for a proxy war with Russia. In my view, this is downright evil. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation remains the second largest political party after United Russia. Once again we are fighting communism, but in someone else's country, just as we did in Vietnam. And what is funny, many here in America welcome much of what communism has promised its people.
What I appreciate about Trump he respected Nation's borders and did not stick his nose in trying to control other nations. Although he acted when he saw atrocities.
Innocent Ukrainnains, are they not being slathered, now for many months? When we choose to leave, Russia will walk in. As they did in Vietnam, and as the Taliban did in Afganistan.
Do you think in the end we will stop Russia from taking Ukraine in the end? If the US was not fighting this war, it would have most likely been over. Yes, Russia would have taken Ukraine, but with so much less destruction. The country is scorched earth. Can't imagine the death rate.
Does what we are seeing set well with your religion? Can we consider less may have died if Russia walked in and took the country? Could we for once consider how this will end? How does your religion sit with war period? Can you weigh slaughter, this many died to that many? We certainly will never know what the outcome would have been if we stood back.
What will be left, how many will have died, and will Russia occupy Ukraine in the end?
I love all the righteous talk... I wonder what in the end will happen in Ukraine, and if once again we leave when we lose interest. And then we will have the righteous making all the right righteous excuses, of why we were there, and why it was time to leave.
All these make sense to me. They must always be two sides to a story. At the Bench, a magistrate or justice will consider both sides of the submissions before making a decision. Otherwise, an appeal will overthrown the ruling. My good? You got me thinking good.
First I read your source.
"Full text of National Archives letter to Trump on classified documents
Just the News has obtained the full text of the letter that the National Archives sent to former President Donald Trump requesting classified documents" The source "Just The News".
So, not sure how John Solomon entered our conversation.
The letter itself is a piece of evidence, without a doubt. Thus far I know nothing about Solomon having anything to do with the letter or the raid.
The letter is been reported as credible. I have no problem with the letter or its content.
In regard to Solomon, I have followed him for years, and he is a good journalist that tracks down a story, and as a rule, offers good sources that make his reports very believable.
If Trump wants to run for the presidency come 2024, let him go ahead. He's a fit. He'll make America great again.
"Great" to me:
Freedom within appropriate boundaries is for the sake of the individual.
Great is not control through government overreach.
Great is individual liberty.
Why?
Because joy of life percolates where there is freedom/liberty. It's just the nature of life.
Tyrants want control to enable their higher ideals, but their ideals are destructive to reality.
They want Utopia which is defined as that which can never ever be.
Their ideals can never be realized because human nature is ever fallible, unless anchored in the divine ...
and, unfortunately, as the Framers understood, men are not angels.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democ … RepublicanTrump, will rebuild the boarder walls again. Finished them up, and stop drug traffic. 2. Trump will bring back the gas that Biden sold out to China. 3. He has learnt from his baptism of fire. So, he'll do many other 'first'(s) above and beyond. As Trump, isn't a politician, he'll become one this time. That's all great. Trump, has been badly wrong. I pray he come with malice toward none, and charity for all per Abbe. God save America!
The affidavit was released.
There is NOTHING in there, (after reading it) that justifies a raid. This is a terribly written warrant. Here is a copy of it.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- … d-documentThanks for sharing Mike.
So, in other words, there most definitely isn't a dead body?Joe Biden was most definitely well aware of the raid on the home of his nemesis, but he wasn't there for it! ;-)
Biden made it all possible --- "By Jeff Mordock - The Washington Times - Tuesday, August 23, 2022
A newly revealed letter shows that President Biden authorized the National Archives and Records Administration to reject any executive privilege claims that former President Donald Trump might use to stop the Justice Department from accessing classified documents stored at his Mar-a-Lago estate.
A letter posted late Monday on the website of conservative journalist John Solomon — one of the few people authorized by Mr. Trump to review National Archives records — revealed that Mr. Biden ordered the National Archives to share all materials it had requested from Mr. Trump to be shared with the Justice Department and the FBI." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
The letter, written by National Archivist Debra Wall to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran, says the president cleared the way for her to rule on Mr. Trump’s executive privilege claims. That opened the door for the National Archives to allow the FBI and the Justice Department to review the missing documents, which culminated in this month’s raid on Mr. Trump’s residence. " https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
In my view, he lied when he claimed he did not know about the raid. He lies so easily.Trump? Does every conversation need to go back to Trump? No really...
The comparison game is childish n my view. It's getting old. perhaps you could have commented a bit on the subject of my comment --- the raid, and all that happened up to, and all that has occurred since the raid. You deflected to ---" let's debate who is the biggest liar." And seem to ignore the subject.
My comment was in regard to Biden, it lies frequently. He is the president at this point. His lies currently affect our politics.
Actually, I don't think Trump lied much, his words were well twisted out of context. Sometimes when I would look into a proposed lie, it would leave me laughing at how the media twisted and reshaped the context in some of his statements. But yes, Trump certainly lied.I bounced back the deflection as Biden is not the topic of the conversation but Trump is.
I won't go into a conversation about who is the biggest liar. As it's not going anywhere.
The topic is about the fact that they found classified top secret files in Trump's house. The question is if you are an ex-president, do you still have the right to own classified material? I'm no expert in these matters. But I'm not aware of any other president having taken hundreds of files (top secret and classified) to his home.
President Trump has been a highly irregular president. He did things his way, but not necessarily things the lawful way."President Trump has been a highly irregular president."
As a comment from the peanut gallery, (me), your description is priceless. It brought a grin and a mental image of a Brit* politely saying it.
*Spain?
GAI try to keep the conversation civilized GA
The best part is that either side can use it. Just change the context and it works. ;-)
GA
Title of the thread -- This Better Be Good. The OP - "Now, on top of the neverending witch hunt, on top of having to ignore the piles of Clinton and Biden dirt, in order to find a speck of dirt on the Trump family. On top of the show trial and the propaganda machine working overtime to destroy Trump, whatever it takes, even it means taking down this Country!!! Now they've invaded and raided his safe haven, his sanctuary, his home!
Again, I say, this better be good! What the heck?! Yes, I am livid! Every American should be, no matter their political persuasion.
There better be a dead body!"
I assumed it was clearly about the rais on Trump's home. This is a very current media story. You deflected into
a comparison "Trump lies too". You were responding to my comment that was discussing an aspect of the raid on Trump's home.
Yes, I brought Biden and his administration into the raid, I offered a source and an opinion. Not sure where you picked up I may have hoped to compare Biden and Trump's practice of lying. here is my comment the one you replied to.
Biden made it all possible --- "By Jeff Mordock - The Washington Times - Tuesday, August 23, 2022
A newly revealed letter shows that President Biden authorized the National Archives and Records Administration to reject any executive privilege claims that former President Donald Trump might use to stop the Justice Department from accessing classified documents stored at his Mar-a-Lago estate.
A letter posted late Monday on the website of conservative journalist John Solomon — one of the few people authorized by Mr. Trump to review National Archives records — revealed that Mr. Biden ordered the National Archives to share all materials it had requested from Mr. Trump to be shared with the Justice Department and the FBI." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
The letter, written by National Archivist Debra Wall to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran, says the president cleared the way for her to rule on Mr. Trump’s executive privilege claims. That opened the door for the National Archives to allow the FBI and the Justice Department to review the missing documents, which culminated in this month’s raid on Mr. Trump’s residence. " https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
In my view, he lied when he claimed he did not know about the raid. He lies so easily.
I don't think anyone on this thread has claimed it was legal for a president to take documents from the White House. I have heard both sides to that coin, some attorneys are saying it is legal, and some are saying it is not. I have no idea as of yet which is factrtual. You see that is a true drawback with our media... They give opposing details on the legality of what Trump is being accused of.
I think it illogical that the Archives or the DOJ just did not take every single document two years ago or on the recent June visit, and following raid. Trump still has boxes in his possession. This certainly bodes better for Trump than the FBI and DOJ. They have been in his home now three times, had full access, and could have taken anything they pleased. However, the media hysteria has not made mention of this very common sense solution.
Yes, you are correct at this point the legality of can a president keep documents after leaving office. precedence said no... I am aware of ex-presidents walking out with literally furniture, china, and who knows what. Not sure if other presidents walked out with documents.
Yes, Trump was a highly irregular president. He was unfiltered, he made common sense decisions, he stood up to the Washington machine, he did not take orders from, he was not in any respect a man that would say --- They won't let me answer questions. He was unpolished as one could get, but he cared about all the American people in my view. Even while being hounded. I don't think personally that the Washington machine will wear him down. I respect that.
And you claim he did not follow the law. What was he indicted for? Do you feel he has not been accused of just about everything, yet no indictments, no evidence to support any of the claims tossed at him? You don't find that odd? I do. They would charge him with littering if they could.
Not sure how all this will play out. It certainly does not appear Trump was not cooperating, it appears the documents he has were not too important, is he still is sitting with more boxes in his basement. He claims he told the archive to take whatever they wanted, same with the DOJ.
If the US is compromised with Trump having documents perhaps they should have taken them in Jan 2022 or June 2022. Seems they very well have left them, so are they endangering America's security, even now?
In my view, this is once again a ploy, a political ploy. That is just a view, I come by it after years of watching similar ploys that the Democrats have perpetrated on Trump. Many Americans hold poor views of Democrats, I am one of them. I frequently use the words scummy, and slimy to describe the Dem party. I consider those to be a mild description of this political party.'In my view, this is once again a ploy, a political ploy'. Most assurdly yes.
"I think it illogical that the Archives or the DOJ just did not take every single document two years ago or on the recent June visit, and following raid. Trump still has boxes in his possession."
How were they to do this without a search warrant? Mr Trump was giving them pieces at a time. How were they supposed to know what was hidden in any room at Mar-A-Lago? During that year and a half they were working with him and assuming he was turning everything over until it was obvious someone ratted him out and said that there was a lot more. It seems as though you have held two opinions at the same time. One saying that the search was not needed because Mr Trump was cooperating during that year and a half and another opinion that the DOJ and others are at fault because they didn't just move in right away and take by force whatever they needed back.
I think this is what happens when folks put a man or a party above country and what is right.You seem to forget That it was Trump's attorney that --- Mid-January 2022: Fifteen boxes of presidential records are retrieved from Mar-a-Lago in a transfer arranged by the National Archives and Records Administration. The transfer came after a Trump REPRESENTATIVE'
told the agency in December 2021 that there were records in Florida nearly a year after he left office. The agency says that under federal law, all records have to be preserved, a process that is “critical to our democracy.”
Feb. 18, 2022: C classified information was found in the 15 boxes of White House records that had been stored at Mar-a-Lago, the National Archives and Records Administration says. The revelation came in a letter responding to a congressional oversight committee. It also confirmed that the matter had been sent to the Justice Department.
Trump was cooperating and sent 15 boxes to the archives. Then
Feb. 25: The House Committee on Oversight and Reform seeks additional documents from the National Archives as part of its investigation into Trump’s handling of White House records.
The committee chaired by Democratic Rep. Carolyn Maloney of New York laid out a series of documents it needed to determine if the former president violated federal records laws when he took the boxes to Florida.
Spring 2022: Investigators from the Justice Department and FBI visit Mar-a-Lago to get more information about classified materials taken to Florida, according to a source familiar with the matter. Federal officials also served a subpoena for some documents believed to be at the estate.".
It is reported they left with several more documents.
Then the raid.--- common sense tells me the FBI and DOJ on June 3 could have cleaned out that basement, and been done with it. This sticks out poorly in my view.
We have beaten a dead horse long enough. We are looking at this problem differently. I am satisfied with waiting to see where it goes from here. I am very impressed that Trump is fighting back.How long should he have been given to cooperate? After a year and a half of giving back a little bit here and there but still holding, actually hiding, many classified documents? Should the FBI just gone on indefinitely begging him to give back what he never should have taken in the first place? Like I said, he has been handled in a way that no other citizen would have been handled. Completely coddled and with kid gloves due to the fact that his supporters have a proclivity to violence and he turns to the media immediately to lie about what's happening... Such as the documents were planted. But later when we heard about the documents being top secret, Mr Trump told us they were all declassified so I guess he declassified the planted documents?? Makes absolutely no sense.
"... what he never should have taken in the first place ... "
He was told he could take them out of the Whitehouse and that they would be automatically declassified. He was not to destroy them and he did not.
Hope they are finding some juicy stuff.
They aren't.Do you have any idea when Trump was first notified by the archives after he left office that they felt he took documents that needed to be in the archives, and not in his possession? I don't ... I do know due to the letter the Archives released to the media that Trump's lawyer was in contact with the Archives by mail. And that his lawyer had asked that the documents not be turned over to the FBI. What we have not seen is any letters or any correspondence that the archives speak of in this letter. We have no idea of the lawyer's motive or reason that he made that request. We have been provided with one side in regard to this letter.
This very request has been turned into a nefarious request by the media.
"Dear Mr. Corcoran:
I write in response to your letters of April 29, 2022, and May 1, 2022, requesting that the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) further delay the disclosure to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of the records that were the subject of our April 12, 2022
notification to an authorized representative of former President Trump".
Facts show Trump did send back 15 boxes in Feb 2022
Facts show the archives felt they need to get in touch with the DOJ feeling due to what they found in those boxes. They did notify the DOJ and FBI became involved
Fact in June Trump received a subpoena for more documents. He cooperated and the FBI retrieved some documents, and ask Trump to add better security to the room where the remaining documents were being stored. They left... They did not take all the boxes, they could have.
Facts They raided Trump's home, and they claim they took more documents.(this could have been prevented if they had taken all documents in June).
Fact --- From letter -- "“As you are no doubt aware, NARA had ongoing communications with the former President’s representatives throughout 2021 about what appeared to be missing Presidential records, which resulted in the transfer of 15 boxes of records to NARA in January 2022,” Wall wrote. "
We have no facts about these communications. What was being shared in any respect? I would think these communications would offer what the other side was doing or even thinking. Were Trump's lawyers studying the laws that applied? We just don't have all the information. We have one side. Not sure why this is not clear to some.
Fact --- this morning it is being reported many documents that were taken are now being returned to him as his Lawyer requested last week.
So to your question -- "How long should he have been given to cooperate? After a year and a half of giving back a little bit here and there but still holding, actually hiding, many classified documents?"
Your question can't be answered, I only have one side, the side of the archives. We have a letter that the archives leaked. We have none of the letters that the archives make mention of now, do we?
"Like I said, he has been handled in a way that no other citizen would have been handled. }
I agree Trump has certainly been treated differently, he has been smeared, already found guilty, and now some wait to punish him. And we have not heard or seen anything in his defense --- zero.
"Completely coddled and with kid gloves due to the fact that his supporters have a proclivity to violence and he turns to the media immediately to lie about what's happening..."
I find this statement hyperbolic, offensive, and illogical.
" Such as the documents were planted. But later when we heard about the documents being top secret, Mr Trump told us they were all declassified so I guess he declassified the planted documents?? Makes absolutely no sense."
I have no idea if Trump declassified the documents. That is yet to be proven or disproven.
At this point as I said, and it's only my view, I would not put anything past this administration.Sharlee01, thanks for a thoroughly analysis of the issue. I'm gland you're not bias. All Dems in the USA are trying hard to nail Trump to the cross. Time and again they've fail. And, they'll never success! Thanks for a job well done.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/p … eline.html
Looks like a pretty well put together timeline . Also:
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 … l-records/Both your links show one side of the back and forth between Trump's lawyer and the Archives. You are apparently do not understanding that point.
Once again you have provided information on what "they did" without any indication of how Trump responded. For instance -- the email the post printed. May 6, 2021 " “It is also our understanding that roughly two dozen boxes of original presidential records were kept in the Residence of the White House over the course of President Trump’s last year in office and have not been transferred to NARA, despite a determination by Pat Cipollone in the final days of the administration that they need to be.”
--- We then jump to Jan 2022, we have no in-between, no knowledge of any real back and forth in 2021. A year passed... Yet in Mid Jan 2022 low and behold the archives retrieved 15 boxes. I have no idea what happened between the Trumps people and the archives for a year... and neither do you. You are putting a puzzle together with only half the pieces.
2022
"Mid-January: The National Archives retrieves 15 boxes of records from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home. The records were transported to the National Archives “following discussions with President Trump’s representatives in 2021,” the National Archives wrote in a press release it made available on its website on Feb. 7. “As required by the Presidential Records Act, these records should have been transferred to NARA from the White House at the end of the Trump administration in January 2021.”
"Jan. 31, 2022: The National Archives issues a statement saying that some of the presidential records it received from Trump before he left office “had been torn up by former President Trump.”
"Feb. 18, 2022: National archivist David Ferriero says in a letter to Congress that the agency had BEEN IN communicating with Trump representatives about the return of documents THROUGHOUT most of 2021. National Archives officials determined that those 15 boxes contained some classified information, so they contacted the Justice Department, Ferreiro’s letter said."
"May 10, 2022, Acting archivist Debra Steidel Wall writes a letter to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran. In it, Wall denies a request from Corcoran to delay providing the FBI access to the 15 boxes that were retrieved.. Wall writes that the National Archives had discovered in those boxes “over 100 documents with classified markings, comprising 700 pages.” (The National Archives made this letter public on its website on Aug. 23, a day after it was disclosed on Just the News, a conservative website run by Trump ally John Solomon.) (See the Aug. 26 entry: The FBI found 25 documents marked Top Secret.) "
-- I would like to see the Corcoran letters that Wall speaks of, and the reasons that he asked the documents be held back from the FBI. We have only seen one side... My God funny you don't recognize this. This Wall from the archives was responding to two of Trump's lawyer's letters... That can be quoted from the letter she leaked.
"May 11, 2022: Trump accepts a grand jury subpoena addressed to the custodian of records for Trump, seeking documents marked as classified. Multiple news reports would later report this happened in the spring, citing unnamed sources. Trump’s attorneys confirmed the May 11 date in an Aug. 22 court filing."
-- I can only say we just don't have the same mindset. I prefer to see all of a puzzle, not just the pieces that suit my logic. You offered nothing of dates between the time Trump left the White House from but an email from May 6th, 2021, with no replies only one-sided information.
"May 16-18: FBI agents conduct a preliminary review of the 15 boxes that had been provided to the National Archives. They find classified documents in all but one box. They identify “184 unique documents bearing classification markings including 67 documents marked as confidential, 92 documents marked as secret, and 25 documents marked as top secret,” according to information later made public in the court’s Aug. 26 release of the Justice Department’s search warrant affidavit."
It was reported today that the FBI took attorney-client privilege documents! My gosh, this is not acceptable. This is shaping up as a put-up job, and Trump has had several of his rights violated.
Perhaps you better have another look at this entire picture. Facts are coming in, and they are pointing to a witch hunt by the Biden administration. This is so serious and may turn out to be such an embarrassment to our Nation.
I truely feel the majority of Americans will not abide by the DOJ and FBI going rogue.Am I missing something or should his only response after each of those contacts been to completely comply and give over every single document he was retaining? The law was not on his side and I don't think there was really room for negotiation.
If Mr Trump has some smoking gun he could release in his lawyers back and forth responses then I'm wondering why he's not doing that. You know, for transparency?What communications? I know of a few May 2021, then we move to a year later, he is subpoenaed and he complies. It seems we need to see all the communications that Trump had with the archives. I have no idea of what was being worked out, I won't speculate. One could, but it would not be fair.
You seem to not understand the law that I offered. A president is actually able to keep some documents, it seems complicated, and he works with the archives to determine what he can keep. He is even allowed to dispose of certain documents. Did you read the law I posted? This is possibly what he was doing in a very slow manner, going through the documents to weed out what he could keep. It appeared the archives need to be aware of what a president keeps, and what he disposes of.
It's clear he had documents he should not have. I prefer to have facts from the archives from day one. We have nothing to view from the Trump team.
Hillary also broke the law, she got a break, they gave her the benefit of doubt and felt she did not break all those laws purposly. She was interviewed by the FBI. Has Trump been talked to? Has he had any cooperation in regard to the courts thus far? NO
I think he does have smoking guns. Tapes, letters, emails. I would think the DOJ is very aware of that, and what the FBI did when they went through his home I imagine they have the documents I want to see --- all the back and forth with the Archives. At this point why should he be transparent, when he could take all this into a court of laws if the DOJ indites him? I personally don't think they will. They do know what Trump has. I think Trump will file his own lawsuit due to many of his rights were violated.
I think the Democrats are up against someone that is hell-bent on bringing that party to their knees. He certainly is a fighter, he very well could just back off, and he would be left alone. He won't he is on a true mission. To drain the swamp.
Peterstreep, what man, or what President can't lie? Why pick on Trump? Is he telling all the many lies in the world? I'm not a lawyer. But I can defend a lier. How come Biden, lie when he has no brain? Did you Peterstreep's heard Joseph Biden told so and so, to do such and such? As for poor Mr Trump, because he has term his media enemies as 'fake news', all the Dems in the world have take it to call Trump a lie! Is that fair to the man Trump? Come on, smart alec.
As said. The question is about Trump not about Biden. So if Sharlee fingerpoints to Biden as a liar I hold up the mirror.
The thread is about the top secret papers that ex-president Trump took with him to his mansion. It is not about Biden taking top secret papers with him to his house.
So it's Mr. Trump who is accused of playing false, not Biden.I focus on defending a lie, not Trump, or Biden. But you digress. No problem. You're welcome
Why would you defend liars?
Sorry, I don't understand what you want to say.
Hmmm, yet another comment mentioning Trump and lying, is this because Biden lied about being behind the raid or because he lied about even knowing about the raid? Or the fact that he has lied repeatedly about his detrimental executive decisions or the fact that he lies repeatedly when it comes to his detrimental son, Hunter?
Or...is his lying ignored and/or condoned because there is a brand new campaign, to catch Trump in a lie and end him, maybe, perhaps, possibly...that way!?abwilliams, this was an answer on Sharlee. As she stated that Biden lies.
And to repeat myself.
This thread is about ex-president Trump and the classified files found in his house. Not about secret files found in Biden's house.
So yes we talk about Trump (and his lies and what all not..)And I will repeat myself --- My post, the one wear i referred that Biden lied was un regard to this thread's subject THE RAID OF TRUMP"S HOME.
The fact that Biden did know about the raid, and lied to the press in regard to being aware of the problem.
My comment is clear, and I offered a source that helped me come to my view.
"SHARLEE01 WROTE:
Biden made it all possible --- "By Jeff Mordock - The Washington Times - Tuesday, August 23, 2022
A newly revealed letter shows that President Biden authorized the National Archives and Records Administration to reject any executive privilege claims that former President Donald Trump might use to stop the Justice Department from accessing classified documents stored at his Mar-a-Lago estate.
A letter posted late Monday on the website of conservative journalist John Solomon — one of the few people authorized by Mr. Trump to review National Archives records — revealed that Mr. Biden ordered the National Archives to share all materials it had requested from Mr. Trump to be shared with the Justice Department and the FBI." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
The letter, written by National Archivist Debra Wall to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran, says the president cleared the way for her to rule on Mr. Trump’s executive privilege claims. That opened the door for the National Archives to allow the FBI and the Justice Department to review the missing documents, which culminated in this month’s raid on Mr. Trump’s residence. " https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … -claims-b/
In my view, he lied when he claimed he did not know about the raid. He lies so easily."
You responded with one sentence. A bait --- More or less you claimed, Trump is a liar.
Hopefully, this clears up the view I offered, and that my view was on the subject of this thread.Still finger-pointing. That Biden lied/did not tell what he knew, does not make the fact change that ex-president Trump had classified and top secret files in his private house.
If being in the possession of top-secret and classified files and not being a president is a crime, I don't know. That's for the judges to decide.Neither does it let Biden off the hook for adding to his propensity to lie.
Yes, it is up to judges to decide, and it will be very interesting to hear both sides. Myself, I am not willing to condemn anyone that has not as of yet presented his side. I just have very good values in this respect.An interesting point that most people are missing is...who determines the security classification of documents?
Did anyone read the affidavit...the heavily redacted affidavit? Some of the documents treated as classified and taken were newspaper clippings, personal correspondence and more. As someone who worked with classified documents during a period of time when I was in the military, I can tell you classifying a document as being secret or top secret is very, very subjective. We once had a message that a top officer's child had been arrested for drinking and fighting in a bar. It was classified as top secret. ALSO, documents don't always hold their classification. Many documents become declassified, when those in power, decide to declassify them for no other reason than it is a slow day.
This entire thing stinks to high heaven."Some of the documents treated as classified and taken were newspaper clippings, personal correspondence"
How do you know this?? The documents were sorted out into levels of classification according to their markings but nowhere did it say exactly what any document contained or pertained to.Thank you for sharing. I have not looked at the redacted affidavit.
"Did anyone read the affidavit...the heavily redacted affidavit? Some of the documents treated as classified and taken were newspaper clippings,"
I truely assumed we would end up with a bunch of he said, she said" BS. in those documents that the affidavit will reveal. The Democrats rely on this form of non-factual evidence. Second and third-hand, opinion articles, whatever. As they have done in the Jan 6th investigation. It all is so ridiculous. Yes, this stinks to the high heavens. I think the DOJ has bitten off more than it can chew.
The more I read, one thing stands out, we have not seen or heard the other side. And the rest is once again covered up so we can't see it, but the hysterical can surely read into it, and weave out a crime, several crimes.
"On Saturday, Judge Aileen M. Cannon of the Southern District of Florida announced her "preliminary intent to appoint a special master" to go through the documents the FBI seized in their raid of Trump's home at Mar-a-Lago earlier this month. This came after Trump's team requested an independent appointee, citing "exceptional circumstances."
Trump's team argued that the government's decision to conduct the raid months before November's midterm elections "involved political calculations aimed at diminishing the leading voice in the Republican Party, President Trump."
The DOJ also now admits the FBI took attorney-client privilege documents. Talk about crooked, and against the law.
This is a witch hunt, a failed witch hunt, like all the rest. The FBI went into his home to look for anything, I mean anything that they felt could incriminate Trump. This weaponization of the FBI and DOJ needs to stop or get rid of these agencies and create new law enforcement from the top down. The top is clearly showing political bias.
I would think this one will soon be pushed to the side for the next slop they come up with. I am sick of this and angry.Sharlee01, thank you for your painstaking analysis. The whole thing indeed stinks. Those witch-hunting Trump will surely fail again.
I believe it will fail., like all of the rest. However, the media coverage is convicting this man with dragged-out one-sided dribbles from the DOJ. It would seem Americans would recognize what the DOJ is doing.
"It would seem Americans would recognize what the DOJ is doing."
Exactly Sharlee there has been a pattern, this isn't anything new, just a continuation, but they've taken it too far this time!AB
I so agree, this makes me very angry, and so disappointed in what appears to be a weaponized FBI and DOJ. Our democracy has collapsed in my view. No longer something I even question.
This administration needs to be voted out, and then the White House, DOJ, and FBI need to be scrubbed, and new people hired.
They have truly taken it too far.
SharWhat gives you the impression that they have taken it too far, this time?
Who is going to oppose "they"?
Who is going to stop "they"?
One of the less than desirable results of the 4 years of the Trump Administration is that "they" were able to:
Neuter a sitting President, using lower courts to contest Presidential orders, they were able to stick charges on supporters like Flynn before Trump could even settle into the WH, they were able to "resist" from within the halls of the FBI and DOJ his entire administration, they were able to Impeach him (was it once or twice?)... all the while having the majority of the News Media, Entertainment Industry, and Social Media support their efforts.
We have a section of the population that doesn't discern the difference between Republican and Racist, between Conservative and Fascist, the constant repetitive messaging of MSM Leftwing sources has any diehard Democrat believing they are fighting Hitler's SS troops when they take a stand against Republicans.
Where is "too far this time"?
I think they went past that point a while ago, and there is nothing standing in the way of them taking it much further.
Certainly not Trump, if they feel he is still a big enough threat after the 2022 elections, they will just find an excuse and jail him.Okay, let them use the least low court and send him to prison. Biden and China will clap hands for them? They think if Pelosi can't get him, that man with no brains and his gangs can? The whole worid is still watching.
No argument from me Ken. I hate that we have reached this point that so many of us have been writing and warning about for years!
To this day, so many American citizens are more than eager to pile on with the progressive left, the true destroyers of life & liberty and of this once great Republic! All while they get to point fingers and place all blame on this Nation's biggest defenders! How's that for ironic? Those currently in the White House are repeatedly referring to {MAGA, Trump supporters, Republicans, recovering Democrats, etc.} as the "biggest threat to democracy"!!
It's the way of the world right now isn't it, completely upside down?!
It was a minority that initially won us our independence and it is a minority that are more than willing to give it up and give it back and "they" currently have the momentum.They are projecting, it's a new page in their book. They do whatever they please, and turn around and say they did it... Point the finger, direct the blame. It's nonsensical. However, it does show how easily some are willing to ignore common sense. It's how dictators win the hearts of people.
Exsample - Biden called MAGA fasist. Have we ever had a more fascist administration in our history? All about projecting.Ominous Winds of Change
The wind blows, oh so ominously …
Flags unfurl in town.
American flags fly dismally
Above the Capitol grounds.
Who is this man who won the election
Through an evil game?
His party helped him steal the election.
It seems he has no shame.
Cool Joe, Kind Joe
China knows his name.
Good Joe! Oh, so wonderful Joe!
One party chants his name.
Yes, he played his role so well
With script held tight in hand.
Yet, sometimes his brain gets stuck …
Will he forget the plan?
“Joe Biden for President!
The highest place, you’ll hold!"
I hope Joe Biden enjoys his days
Before he is too old!
“Cool Joe, Kind Joe
China knows your name.
Good Joe! Oh, so wonderful Joe!
The Deep State calls your name.”Kathryn, I don't know you're good to pen a poem. I enjoy the piece. Thank you.
It came to me the day after the election along with a very eerie tune. So they are actually lyrics.
Thank you, my Kathryn. The lyrics still ringing in my head.
I should record it and send it to Steve Bannon.
Great! But this man with no brain will jump at it. He'll dance and Americans will rock with laughter!
You, Miebakagh, have tricked me.
as revealed by this comment regarding Steve Bannon.
"Great!" ... and then later:
"But this man with no brain will jump at it. He'll dance and Americans will rock with laughter!"
All I can do is attribute this comment to a lack of insight regarding what Steve Bannon stands for.
I forgive you.
... just as all the people who wish to see America come "Back From its Malaise" must forgive Biden.
_____________________________________________
The MAGAs and the right will never hate Biden, who has done so much damage to this country, as much as the left hates Trump.
And all Trump ever tried to do was bring back what made America Great.
And what is that?
The Democrats have NO idea. And we have to forgive them for that ignorance.
As Jesus said, "Forgive them, they know not what they do."
As Biden has no idea as to what he just did with that speech.
We will go quiet for now, but we will get our best lawyers, our best educators, our best politicians and we will succeed in bringing back the American dream, the American reality and the destiny for ALL of America's CITIZENS.And all Trump ever tried to do was bring back what made America Great.
The Democrats have NO idea. And we have to forgive them for that ignorance.
-----------
I don't believe that you have the answer, either.
So when was it "great" according to your understanding?I will pick up this argument.
What Trump did, or attempted to do:
Renegotiate NAFTA to be more friendly to American interests.
Do away with non tariff favortism shown to China.
Push companies to remain in America and not take their businesses overseas.
Control the Border and build a Wall.
Give middle class Americans tax deductions, better rebates for families.
He never started a new war... or supported a new war effort... that he wasn't stuck inheriting. But he did try to create an alliance between India, Australia, Japan, etc. to ward off growing Chinese hostilities.
Refused to follow the Compact on Migration, the Paris Accord, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, essentially anything that did not favor America or Americans but put extra burdens and costs on them. Something that those Globalists (that don't exist) were determined to destroy him over.
What the DOJ did was completely wrong from the onset. As the Chief watcher of the law(?) the DOJ should have had both hands wash of politics. But alas it stain itself with the bad of the Dems. I hope both the DOJ and FBI be investigated and reformed.
'haha toche'! The comparison is also interesting.
You won't take Biden's word for anything but believe everything that Trump says?
I was responding to Peter's remark with a similar remark; are you coming in from deep left field making assumptions again!?
Why does Trump, as a civilian need access to super secret documents that in the wrong hands can affect the national security of this country.?
Many of those documents are marked as SCIFF and only to be opened in a room which has the highest security possible
Acoustic materials must prevent conversations from penetrating the walls, or “white noise” speakers may be used to mask conversations. From an electronic perspective, SCIFs must have access controls, intrusion detection systems, and data communications that meet the highest security standards.I was wondering about that too. It greatly puzzle me. Has any previous president did a thing like it? It may be just human weakness.
I think Pres. Biden may be telling the truth about, him, not knowing about the raid, but It is hard to believe the White House didn't know about it. It seems crazy that the DOJ would make such a move without the administration getting a heads-up.
However, I can see Pres. Biden not being told as a political protection move. The raid would be much more political if the president was directly involved. Seems like a case of political 'plausible deniability' to me.
GAI concur with this GA. Plausible deniability is a good explanation and I would have employed it if I were sitting where he is.
And I would have advised it if I were his chief of staff.
GAMany Presidents and Heads of States the world over are doing just that. What is that president who can say: 'the buck falls on my table'?
Harry Truman "the buck stops here" was the motto he placed as a statement on his desk.
To avoid being accused of steering the process and attacking Trump from a petty political perspective, this was the correct course.
It is time to put this man in jail. This man have a rap sheet a mile long and we need to stop listening to him. Every words \that comes out of his mouth is exactly what he is doing to destroy this country. That sign on his podium should reads, "SAVE AMERICA FROM TRUMP".
hillary and the biden crime family needs to go first. Let us explore in detail the relationship between China and the bidens. Then let us look at the Hunter Biden laptop that was hidden from people via the FBI during the last election. Let us start there.
Nice to hear from you again, Melpor, it has be a few years...
I am very well aware that not only is every conversation about Trump and about stopping Trump and about getting Trump, at the same time, it's about protecting and propping up Joe Biden!
You call them "classified", "secret files", President Trump states they're declassified/ his personal papers.The public has seen redacted papers of ALL {they} don't want us to see. What I see...is a dead horse repeatedly beaten!
There was a raid wave happening throughout Trump's entire term. It was a regular thing; for no good reason EVER, associates of Trump were targeted because they were associates of Trump, and nothing more!
There would be a big showy-show made out of it, every single time. There were never any smoking guns, but the die was cast and that was the goal! The American people had to be convinced {from the get-go} that Al Capone {or worse} incarnate and notorious gang members had infiltrated D.C. and had to be stopped.
The true evil, the real destroyers of America, the D.C. swamp, pretending to be the great protectors of the Republic, would protect us all, do whatever they must do, to rid us of the gangstas!!
Most people have seen all of this for what it is and have had their fill of it.....constant and consistent b.s.!!The Department of Justice (DOJ) Tuesday filed its response opposing the appointment of a "special master" to review documents seized from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate, saying classified documents were likely "concealed" at the residence in violation of a grand jury subpoena.
Before prosecutors obtained a search warrant, Trump's lawyers claimed that all of the records from the White House that remained at Mar-a-Lago were in a secure storage room on the premises.
But the filing said documents were likely "concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation."
The warrant was obtained after "the government developed evidence that a search limited to the Storage Room would not have uncovered all the classified documents at the Premises.
It continued, "That the FBI, in a matter of hours, recovered twice as many documents with classification markings as the ‘diligent search’ that the former President’s counsel and other representatives had weeks to perform calls into serious question the representations made in the June 3 certification and casts doubt on the extent of cooperation in this matter."
After finding five documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 16 marked as SECRET and 17 documents marked as TOP SECRET at Mar-a-Lago, the filing said, "Counsel for the former President offered no explanation as to why boxes of government records, including 38 documents with classification markings, remained at the Premises nearly five months after the production of the Fifteen Boxes and nearly one-and-a-half years after the end of the Administration."
"During the August 8 Execution of the Search Warrant at the Premises, the Government Seized Thirty-Three Boxes, Containers, or Items of Evidence, Which Contained over a Hundred Classified Records, Including Information Classified at the Highest Levels," the filing said.
Three classified documents were also found in a "desk drawer" during the search, the DOJ said.
That is from FoxNews. You can also read the document online.Fox News, which a day, or two ago I learnt will misrepresent true facts as fiction?
You have to wonder why they use the words "likely" so often. Let me reveal the truth behind it, they don't know. They are making this up. Or should I say they are "likely" making this up.
One "likely," that classified stuff was still there, seems to be validated by the included image.
Another 'likely', that other classified documents might be in other places, may also true if those desk drawers weren't in the storage room.
If, it is true that Pres. Trump's lawyers did assert to the DOJ, (et al'), that all classified documents had been returned, then the 'likely' about obstruction seems a reasonable one.
What are they likely making up?
GADo you know where that image was taken? There is no link to a story that shows the picture. It's "Likely" as assumption.
The entire premise for the accusations against President Donald Trump is "likely" entrapment by the FBI.Maybe check real news sites every now and then. Here, a rightwing one.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-fi … d-document
That is the DOJ filing.
Attachment FHa! The certifying letter has a weasel hole: 'based on information provided to me . . . '
GAYup. That could be the custodian defense. Then he'll have to explain who "provided the information". It is gonna be hard for some to explain so many missed docs.
It is beyond laughable, and I do mean that quite literally, that Trump entered into the White House on the heels of all the hoopla of how Clinton sent thousands of classified documents through her not-so-secure private server and used her personal phone for classified conversations, etc. etc.
And then he goes and puts himself in a position where they can go after him for essentially the same thing. Did he not see the writing on the wall?
Did he not recognize how they would pursue this, after all his ranting over what Clinton got away with?
A rational (or perhaps paranoid) person would expect such political retribution to come forthwith after his exit from the White House.
Expecting such, one should make certain every computer has been wiped "like with a cloth or something" every phone destroyed every paper shredded and every other precaution taken... leaving nothing to chance.
This is the guy who said 'I'm the only thing standing between the American dream and anarchy, madness and chaos' or was it '“only thing standing between American and socialism' or perhaps, ah heck, whatever it was, he was the only thing standing in the way of the Swamp getting everything it wants, to paraphrase.
Since he was the only thing standing in the way, he probably should have expected them to come after him with everything they could think of, every trick in the book.Good lord, this was a man who literally failed at everything he did in his lifetime. The presidency was just his next grift.
Remember when he claimed this: " I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information,” he said at a 2016 rally in North Carolina. “No one will be above the law.” As promises go, this one aged badly, much like his commitment to release his tax returns.He does fight on... And I don't feel he will stop until he outs every last corrupt action that the Democrats perpetrated to try to get rid of him.
It has become apparent they will do anything. But are more coming around to see a clearer picture of the Democratic party. I mean the country is in a mess, the list is long. People are losing children due to drugs pouring in across the border, and the number of migrants walking in is staggering. Inflation is hurting almost everyone. And then a war, Biden's proxy war is costing billions, and Russia has literally become more wealthy due to the war and is threatening to cut oil to Europe. No one can whine louder than Europe... China just plunges forward with anything they aspire to do. This nut job and his unqualified administration are ruining the country.
It is clear Biden is not liked, his polls had a momentary boast for about a week, and now they are headed back down. So, could more citizens be ready to stop this bunch from doing further damage?
Perhaps they have overplayed their hand. Word on the street, many are recognizing the many failed investigations, and smell a rat, finally!
I read the document. This is the problem I have with it. This is an answer in response to President Donald Trump's request for a third party to review the documents. This type of filing must have a page before the attachments or a section somewhere in the document that lists the attachments and describes each one. This is so those who receive the answer can make certain all of the attachments have been received. There is no such listing in this document. There is no such description for the attachments. Interesting why they would file it this way.
If, it is true that Pres. Trump's lawyers did assert to the DOJ, (et al'), that all classified documents had been returned, then the 'likely' about obstruction seems a reasonable one.
Check the attachments.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-fi … d-documentHe is "likely" headed for indictment is all I can say. It's obvious that they are looking at criminal charges.
The DOJ filing is an interesting read for sure.
They certainly are playing the political game by using the media and leaking photos. It's very clear that the DOJ is a weapon at this point being used by the slimy Democrats.
I truly feel this is a one-sided Trial, with the media being the judge, and the media audience the jury. It is shocking to witness these kinds of leaks, and what is more shocking it well seems some don't find anything wrong with this kind of conduct by the DOJ. Hopefully, Trump will have non-bias eyes to view the documents. This would be fair play in my view.
I will step away from this conversation. Not interested in holding a trial with only one side. It sickens me to see what has become of our general society. Pure blood lust --- not pretty is it? YuckMaybe read first.
The only one that leaked was Trump. He made public "the raid" and then leaked the unredacted search warrant.
That photo is part of the DOJ filling (in response to Trump’s request that the court appoint a third-party special master.)Have fun with this one. Just not willing to join in another "let's get Trump". Hey, if he is indited, I will join back in. We will be exposed to both sides at that point. I have no stomach for this kind of crap anymore.
You dont have to.
One should read before jumping the gun. Or at least acknowledge it.
But hey, you do you.
What's that term..?
Plausible deniability?
The photos weren't leaked to the media they were part of a court filing the DOJ made in response to Mr Trump asking for a special master.
Mr Garland has always said he would not conduct the business of the department in the media. He seems to be a credible, trustworthy methodical man.
Additionally;
"According to the DOJ’s court filing, Trump’s lawyers assured the feds that no classified documents remained at Mar a Lago. However, despite the supposed assurances Trump’s team made that all classified material had been turned over that day, the FBI earlier this month found more than 100 others were still at Mar-a-Lago."
The filing is included below:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/justice-de … go-search/Nothing but excuses....
I still don't know why Trump and his apparatchiks told the Justice Department that all classified-top secret documents had been returned when they had not been. What possessed the man to want to conceal and keep these materials after being told by the appropriate authorities that it ALL had to be returned?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/p … eline.html
The idea that Trump could with his magic wand declassify documents without proper protocol is BS. Such as it is he could be keeping highly sensitive materials in his basement. And it is not could be, he did.
Why be so obstinate and stubborn, when you know that you could not be allowed to do such a thing?
I fail to see what you Trumpers see in this man, as he could do no wrong and is always being unjustiably attacked by any and everybody.
Stay tuned for more of the Trump-Garland comedy hour.Former President Donald Trump argued in a court filing Wednesday that the National Archives should have expected to find classified material among the 15 boxes Trump turned over in January from Mar-a-Lago because they were presidential records.
Trump’s team argued Wednesday that the discovery of sensitive information in a previous batch of records should not have triggered the search of Mar-a-Lago in the first place, doubling down on his long-standing claim that executive privilege justifies keeping large tranches of classified documents in his personal residence.
Absent from the filing is any backing for Trump’s earlier claims that he declassified the hundreds of intelligence records stored at his home.
The failure to reference that explanation, largely referenced by Trump himself on his social media channel, comes after the Justice Department in its own filing noted that in its months of dealings with Trump’s legal team to secure return of the records, the legal team never claimed the documents had been declassified.
Trump's filing argued that should a special master be appointed, "it would be appropriate for the special master to possess a Top Secret/SCI security clearance" -- an implicit admission of the top-level classification markings on the documents.
The former President is also seeking a copy of the search warrant and an unredacted copy of the materials used to obtain it -- which would include the affidavit that was released last week in redacted form.
And that is all he wants, to know who is talking.The best opinion open to all Americans is to throw Joseph Biden, out of the Oval Office, for using the word fascist on America.
Yes, he implied half the country was fascists. And this from the guy that was going to heel the great divide. I watched him make that statement, his facial expression sickened me. This man is full-out demented.
it's absolutely shocking.
... and yet they clap."Make America Kind Again."
Yeah, right.
Yes, his audience did clap. You need to consider where he was speaking, and that anyone that showed up thinks as he does. Scary is it not?
I watch the late night shows sometimes just to see whats up. Oh my gosh! The hatred the hosts spew against conservatives, is what they clap for!
It's ... "ominous" ...
It IS really scary!
One can imagine a civil war if we don't try to listen to each other and figure out where we are right, wrong, truthful, untruthful, real, un-real, false and correct.
We could to listen to one another!
I think when you look at the characteristics of fascism, the Maga party ticks many if not all of the boxes. It's a dangerous thing that probably needs to be pointed out.
There’s probably a legitimate case for President Biden to call the MAGA philosophy “semi-fascism.” Look no further than the Jan. 6 riot, the fake electors scheme, or the links between Trumpworld and paramilitary groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and his supporters for evidence. Or, most recently, consider Sen. Lindsay Graham’s warning this past weekend that there would be “riots in the streets” if Mr. Trump is prosecuted.- the election was being stolen and then it was.
And there is no reason to revolt?
Yes, there was.
And we, IN THIS COUNTRY OF LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL, are entitled to revolt when necessary.
Get a clue! The pandemic enabled the steal.
It's not fair.
Give the MAGAs a break, will you!
It was Antifa who brought forth the violence. Watch the videos. Talk to people who were there. They will tell you that it was peaceful people who arrived in Washington to support their president.We "check the boxes of fascism" and "we're dangerous"?!?
See how this works Kathryn? Everything must be twisted! Even Joe Biden is repeating the other big lie, that cops were killed on Jan. 6th in the Capitol Bldg. The fact is, one person died in the Capitol Bldg. that day and she was a supporter of President Trump!! I sure as heck hope that her family or a State Representative or somebody...is on top of this and that the FACTS don't get buried along the way (with so many other facts) in this facade of an administration.I believe there WAS a cop that died at the Capitol that day.
Of a heart attack or stroke or something similar. Not from violence.
So Biden's story is true (as long as it is singular) even as he lies, trying to convince us that the cop died of the violence.
America, not just half of the voting population Biden labeled fascist. But the whole voting people, should show Joseph Biden for wasteing God's own country, and impoverishing the people. Critically, and presidential candidate that holds the good of the people, and the Great country America at heart, is to be welcome. Biden, with no brain, imposed by those owning subjetion to China, is a disaster. God save America!
Yes, Biden is a very divisive man, dangerous in my view. Last night he gave a speech that excoriated many Americans. A speech in my view meant to promote anger, and unrest, to cause disagreement or hostility between Americans.
It left me sickened and realizing how serious of a problem this man is causing.
He made no mention of how he would solve our ongoing problems, he made no mention of the problems his administration has caused. He promoted hate, anger, and radical idelogies.
In my view, the line is set in cement, there is no further room to communicate with anyone that supports the Democratic party or this
man.
MAGA --- Make America Great Again.
Screaming angry divisive dangerous cognitively impaired human being.
No, the autopsy report showed that Officer Sicknick, died of natural causes and he died at home the following day, not in the Capitol Building.
Well, I got the natural causes right, anyway. I should get a lollipop!
My point is made and that's what matters most.....
Truth matters!
We must stay on top of the facts, and not get caught up in the b.s. which is currently being spread from coast to coast and from secured border to unsecured border!Facts are tricky things and it depends on where you look for them.
How do you determine your source of facts is trustworthy?There is no evidence that I've come across that points toward cops or even a single cop being killed in the Capitol Bldg. on Jan. 6, 2021.
Do you have evidence that contradicts that?
Well, the definitive source for all things MAGA has spoken:
According to conservative former judge Andrew Napolitano, speaking on News Max,
"Even a cursory review of the redacted version of the affidavit submitted in support of the government's application for a search warrant at the home of former President Donald Trump reveals that he will soon be indicted by a federal grand jury for three crimes:
Removing and concealing national defense information (NDI), giving NDI to those not legally entitled to possess it, and obstruction of justice by failing to return NDI to those who are legally entitled to retrieve it."
https://www.newsmax.com/judgeandrewpnap … d/1085596/Interesting, however, we have all lived through pundits as well as Congressmen saying things that in the end are in some cases untrue. Sometimes the statements are well-meaning, sometimes out and out lies.
So, odd that in the past week Alan Dershowitz has put himself out on the line saying Trump will not be indicted for anything. So, who to believe? Maybe just we should have a wait-and-see attitude. I mean one only needs to reflect on Russiagate, and what so many pundits were saying. Many had Trump literally spending time in prison for the rest of his life. Many openly lied on nightly talk jock shows.
One very good example --- All the Adam Schiff Transcripts
Newly released documents show he knew all along that there was no proof of Russia-Trump collusion. https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-ad … 1589326164
https://apnews.com/article/c3e03438a803 … 2fd273b1df
Seems logical to believe all one hears or reads today. Maybe a grain of salt should be applied. I realize some are very hopeful that Trump is indited, as they have been for many years. But, perhaps it is wise to wait and see what happens in this latest investigation. I would think disappointments in regard to Trump investigations are piling up.
Leaks are starting to pile up, and we all should have learned leaks can be very much untrue in the end.Get rid of Trump one way or another, silence or jail Trump supporters, put, those whom aren't Trump supporters but are paying attention {when they really shouldn't be} and are shocked by what they heard out of Joe Biden last night in his "Unity" aka: ''Deplorables +++" speech, in their place; then you all will really have the Utopia you seek!
Are you saying that he should not be held accountable if found guilty? Or even investigated for removing documents from the White House?
At this point Faye, it doesn't really matter what I think or what I believe or what I find worthy of questioning, etc., does it?
Your deflecting AB was referring to the poison speech Biden gave last night. Nice try... That despicable human being made an attempt to pit Americans against one another. Well, he did a smash-up job. Many of us are well aware at this point of what we are up against, and will work like hell to vote this sick mess out of Washington.
He literally sought to turn citizens against each other? I mean is this not clearly fascism?I think President Biden was finally pointing out the fact that the Republican Party has splintered into MAGA, a fascist, social and political movement.
In my view, this movement does mirror fascism. The movement revolves around a cultish leader who employs lies and propaganda to foment humiliation and fear of the “other” — liberals, feminists, immigrants and minorities. At the core of fascist propaganda is the threat of replacement , that the dominant group will be replaced, culturally or physically, by minorities (and their values). As I said previously, when you look at the characteristics of fascism, MAGA ticks most boxes.
Mr. Trump's supporters were simply aghast that a president of the United States would deliver such a divisive speech. Can you even imagine if Mr. Trump had ever said anything so polarizing? LOL!!! Let's be realistic here. He was a master at pitting Americans against each other.
You now are possibly feeling what so many felt during Mr Trump's tenure. His term was filled with speech overflowing with derogatory labels and incendiary, divisive language aimed at debasing millions.
Remember When then President Trump retweeted a video that featured a supporter saying that “the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat.”?
And today? Well Mr Trump has been promising pardons for the rioters who beat the hell out of police officers on January 6th. I suppose that will happen when his demands for reinstallment as POTUS are met?There is so much that is not true, that I can't fight it.
What is it you want out of a country?
If you want what Biden is offering, I have no words. There are no words.
The words have flown away ...
Like butterflies
From me.Ditto, I thought the same thing Kathryn. This fiasco we have cannot be defended, but some will still try! What are ya gonna do!?!
- kindly expose them, I guess. But in doing so, I will be considered a troll.
Who cares at this point, we are already considered fascists, how's a little "troll" here, a little attitude there, going to hurt?
I am so fed up at this moment in time, that I really don't care!!!
I'm sorry, I think it's a danger for the country when we have a faction that is based on the lies of a stolen election and threatens violence when they don't get their way. Mr Trump's party is extreme. He currently believes he can be reinstalled as President and is indulging qanon conspiracy theories on his social media platform. None of this is normal or acceptable.
I disagree with most of what you have shared. See little sense in going back and forth, I feel we are on different sides, and that's all she wrote.
Just being honest, and I feel that is the best policy.Yes, honesty is always good! I think my point is that this wasn't necessarily a speech President Biden wanted to give but had to. MAGA and it's platform have sort of been the elephant in the room for some time.
I believe a growing number of Americans wanted the issue addressed. With the continued election denial, midterm candidates running on lies, the threat of riots if Mr Trump is indicted, his recent thought that he will be reinstalled to the office of president and pardons/apologies on tap (according to Mr Trump's statement)for all of those who participated in beating law enforcement on the 6th. None of this is right, none of it is reality and all of it is a dangerous direction for our country. I do not believe that President Biden was talking about all of Mr Trump's supporters. I know that you realize that even within the MAGA faction there are differing views on all that I mentioned. Not all are election deniers and so forth. I feel that President Biden was addressing the most extreme, disconnected from reality, radical part of the group.
AB, Seems the die has been well cast. That speech last night was the final straw. Never in my life have I heard a more divisive speech from a president. he literally pitted Americans against Americans.
If this speech did not wake up Americans, I don't know what will. It certainly put the steam in me. I reached out to my Michigan Republican Party’s grassroots army early and offered my time in any capacity they needed me. We need to get very serious about the next two elections, and we need to do it now.
Can't believe we are facing such a crisis in America. Never thought I would see this day.
This crazy man actually pitted Americans against Americans...Yes he did Sharlee! What a despicable human being! My husband and I are traveling and heard it on talk radio last night. Just when you thought he'd not go any further...he did!
This morning I saw parts of it on t.v., what was with that setting?!? What the heck!?!
Justice Department records unsealed on Friday offer new details about the volume of documents former President Trump stored in his personal office at Mar-a-Lago, as well as other items seized during the search of his Florida home.
The filing underscores just how many presidential records Trump was storing at his home and offers a breakdown of the more than 100 classified documents the Department of Justice (DOJ) says it recovered from Mar-a-Lago.
FBI agents found 43 empty folders with classified banners in Trump’s personal office as well as another 28 empty folders that were labeled “return to staff secretary/military aide,” according to the inventory.
The inventory offers few new details about the classified materials themselves stored at Mar-a-Lago, but it does shed light on the extent classified materials were intermixed with Trump’s personal belongings.
A brief filed by the government just before midnight Tuesday indicated they found three classified records within Trump’s very own desk.
But the Friday inventory details in broad strokes the others that were found within his office: three documents marked confidential, 17 documents marked secret and seven documents marked top-secret.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec … ps-office/Fox is really bringing it home lately.
William Barr appeared on Fox News on Friday to say there is no "legitimate reason" for classified documents to have been at Mar-a-Lago and cast doubt in the idea that they had somehow been declassified.
"No. I can't think of a legitimate reason why they should have been -- could be taken out of government, away from the government if they are classified," Barr said of the documents found at former President Donald Trump's Florida resort.
"I, frankly, am skeptical of the claim that [Trump] declassified everything," Barr added.
Because frankly, I think it's highly improbable, and second, if in fact he sort of stood over scores of boxes, not really knowing what was in them and said 'I hereby declassify everything in here,' that would be such an abuse and that shows such recklessness, it's almost worse than taking the documents," he said.
Barr also rejected criticism that the FBI search was in the wrong because it was "unprecedented."
"Let me just say, I think the driver on this from the beginning was loads of classified information sitting in Mar-a-Lago. People say this [raid] was unprecedented -- well, it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay," Barr said.
"And how long is the government going to try to get that back? They jawboned for a year, they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken, they went and got a subpoena, they were deceived on that they feel, and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around," he added. "And so how long, you know, how long do they wait?",Trump’s direct handling of records could strengthen DOJ case
The revelation that Donald Trump himself reportedly packed the initial 15 boxes returned to the National Archives that ignited a criminal Justice Department probe could strengthen the government’s case should it choose to prosecute the former president, legal experts said Tuesday.
The detail was included in Monday reporting from The Washington Post on how one of Trump’s attorneys, Alex Cannon, refused to comply with a request from Trump that he certify that all the government documents stored at Mar-a-Lago had been returned.
Cannon also reportedly advised other staff to not rummage through the boxes as they might contain classified documents.
Beyond indicating Trump’s staff did not believe all the government documents had been returned, Trump’s direct handling of the records would indicate he may have had greater awareness of what was stored in his home and was actively involved in determining what to retain despite government orders.
The concern among staff over the documents’ classification status also runs counter to Trump’s claims that he declassified all the records stored in his home – an argument his attorneys have failed to fully assert in court as Trump fights to keep the Justice Department from gaining access to the records.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec … -doj-case/
This is also new. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald … -rcna50557Supreme Court rejects former President Donald Trump’s request to intervene in Mar-a-Lago documents fight
The Supreme Court on Thursday rejected an emergency request from former President Donald Trump to intervene in the dispute over classified documents seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate in August.
Trump had asked the justices to reverse a federal appeals court and allow a special master to review about 100 documents marked classified, a move that could have opened the door for his legal team to review the records and argue that they should be off limits to prosecutors in a criminal case.
But in a brief order, the court denied the request. There were no noted dissents.Aide tells FBI Trump ordered boxes moved at Mar-a-Lago - report
A former employee of Donald Trump told federal agents the former president asked that boxes of records be moved within his Florida residence after receiving a government subpoena demanding their return according to a Washington Post report.
The testimony of the key witness, coupled with surveillance footage the Justice Department also obtained, represent some of the strongest known evidence to date of possible obstruction of justice by the former Republican president.
The New York Times separately reported on Wednesday that Trump aide Walt Nauta was captured on security camera footage from Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach moving boxes out of a storage area at the center of the investigation.
It was unclear whether the employee cited in Wednesday's Washington Post report was Nauta or a different staff member, according to the Times, which cited three unnamed people familiar with the matter.
The employee who was working at Mar-a-Lago was cooperating with the Justice Department and has been interviewed multiple times by federal agents, the Post reported. The witness initially denied handling sensitive documents and in subsequent conversations with agents admitted to moving boxes at Trump’s request, it added, citing people familiar with the situation.When you run out of stories to share, no worries - the plan is to get in the head of Donald Trump, in order to read his mind and report as to what his intentions were, are, have been and will be, so you should have plenty of material to keep this thread going for a long, long time.
Oh, Im not worried. But apparently, Trump should. Not even his appointees... LOL
"Not even his appointees LOL", that makes zero sense.
Maybe read.
Trump had asked the justices to reverse a federal appeals court and allow a special master to review about 100 documents marked classified, a move that could have opened the door for his legal team to review the records and argue that they should be off limits to prosecutors in a criminal case.
But in a brief order, the court denied the request. There were no noted dissents.This is what you wrote, this is what I read:
"Oh, Im not worried. But apparently, Trump should. Not even his appointees... LOL"
Trump indicted on 7 charges in classified docs probe
The former president made the announcement on his social media platform Thursday night.
federal grand jury has indicted Donald Trump on seven criminal charges in connection with his mishandling of more than 100 classified documents that were discovered last year at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, making the twice-impeached former commander-in-chief the first former president to face federal criminal charges.
Trump said Thursday night that his attorneys were informed that he’s been indicted in the special counsel’s investigation into his handling of classified documents.
Two sources briefed on the seven charges told NBC News the charges include false statements and conspiracy to obstruct. All charges are related to retaining documents and obstructing justice. One source notes that seven charges doesn’t necessarily mean seven counts - there can be multiple counts associated with each charge.
Trump lawyer Jim Trusty told CNN a summons they received from the feds included at least one charge related to the Espionage Act, "several obstruction-based type charges, and then false statement charges." Asked if there was a conspiracy charge as well, he said, "I believe so." NBC News confirmed that one of the charges was related to the Espionage Act.
A spokesperson for the special counsel declined to comment.
A separate source said the indictment is under seal, which is why the government cannot yet comment.
PD
Trump appeared prepared when he was the first to make public the existence of the indictment.
Minutes after Trump announced he'd been indicted on Truth Social, he sent out a fundraising appeal citing the criminal charges.
LOLThe word that I keep coming back to is, "sloppy".
Sandy Berger the former Clinton Administration National Security Advisor, said he was just "sloppy" when an FBI investigation revealed that he had stolen Top Secret memos and documents from the National Archives.
In latter years, Hillary Clinton was very careless and sloppy, but fortunately for her, she had bleachbit to help clean up her big mess.
Barack Obama had millions of documents shipped to Chicago when he left office, but that's different...they are for his library and they are to be digitized, not sure if they've ever gotten around to digitizing them all these years later. They are most likely thrown here, there and yonder, while they await some new form/new style of digitization?!
Who knows, who cares?
Joe Biden has obviously been sloppy since the 70's; he even had important documents lying around in his garage. Of course with him, it's all one big joke, "where doesn't Joe Biden have important documents"?
Donald Trump isn't a Dem and just doesn't know how to be properly sloppy....
He is still such a novice, an amateur, when it comes to the game of politics!It is obvious we have a two tiered justice system.
One for democrats and one for Republicans.
It's obvious they are really terrified of President Donald Trump being reelected.
I'm sure they have good reasons.Exactly too. The thing is that Trump, is now a proverb in the public eyes. The height is that one can heap on his head and blame him as the greatest evils happening in America! LOL
These indictments...That's not the end of Trump's life. Trump is a success. LOL!
Trump indicted on 37 counts in Mar-a-Lago case
Donald Trump has been charged with 37 counts in relation to the mishandling of records at Mar-a-Lago as well as his efforts to block the government from recovering the documents.
An indictment unsealed by the Justice Department Friday underscores the high-level material the former president kept after leaving office, the times he improperly shared it with those without clearances and the extent he sought to block any efforts to retrieve them.
“The classified documents Trump stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack,” the filing states.
The filing details two specific instances where Trump is alleged to have shared highly sensitive materials with individuals at his Bedminster, N.J., club who did not have security clearances.
The first came in July 2021, when Trump is said to have shown and described a “plan of attack” prepared for him by Pentagon officials while in the White House. The meeting, which was with a writer, publisher and two staff members, was recorded.
The filing details a second incident in August or September of 2021 in which Trump showed a representative of his political action committee who did not possess a security clearance a classified map related to a military operation. Trump is said to have told the associate during the meeting at his Bedminster, N.J., club that he should not be showing it to the person and that they should not get too close.
The filing also alleges that Trump tried to obstruct the FBI and grand jury investigations and conceal his continued possession of classified documents by suggesting his attorney falsely represent to the FBI that he did not have the documents in question.
Prosecutors also alleged Trump directed Walt Nauta, a longtime aide also charged in the case, to move boxes of documents to conceal them, suggested his attorney hide or destroy documents included in a grand jury subpoena and falsely claiming he had turned over all the necessary documents while knowing that was not the case.A close aide to Donald Trump has been indicted in Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation of the former president’s handling of classified documents, two sources confirm to Fox News.
Walt Nauta, who served as a Trump personal aide and valet in the White House and later at Mar-a-Lago, was the second to be indicted in Smith's investigation, following Trump's indictment on Thursday night.
The exact charges Nauta faces was not immediately clear.
ITS ALL BS!!! They need to stop him because he is the only one who knows about all their Crimes
"The exact charges Nauta faces was not immediately clear".....sure they are, an association with Donald Trump!
Where are your urgent memos regarding the crime family Biden?If you are a Trumper then all of this is BS and a conspiracy to keep him from running again. However, if you are a realist then this is about no one being above the law and accountability for all the laws Trump has broken.
By the way, everybody is now focused on the illegal handling of the documents. However, he still has to account for Jan. 6. In my view, they are going to throw the book at him and all his cohorts who were involved in the obstruction of transfer of power to the duly elected president.Oh I didn't mean to say Crime Family Biden, I meant to say:
The Biden 'True Crime' Family.
Yes, that covers it quite sufficiently.The indictment outlining federal charges against former President Donald Trump for alleged mishandling of classified documents has been unsealed, revaling he's been charged with 37 felony counts.
The document released Friday, which also names Trump aide Walt Nauta, outlines criminal charges related to the over 100 classified documents federal agents recovered from Trump's Florida resort in August of last year.
It accuses Trump of breaking seven different laws, including 31 counts of willful retention of national defense information and single counts of false statements and representations, conspiracy to obstruct justice, withholding a document or record, corruptly concealing a document, concealing a document in a federal investigation and a scheme to conceal.
It says the information Trump took with him when he left the White House “included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the U.S. and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for a possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack.”
The documents originated with all of the top national security and law enforcement agencies of the U.S. government, including the CIA, the Department of Defense, the NSA, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, the National Reconnaissance Office, the Department of Energy and the Department of State and Bureau of Intelligence Research, according to the indictment.
It also says that “On two occasions in 2021, Trump showed classified documents to others.”
In one instance, Trump showed a writer, a publisher and two members of his staff who lacked security clearance a copy of a “plan of attack” that, according to a recording of Trump, he described as “highly confidential,” the indictment states.
In the second instance, Trump showed two members of his political action committee, neither of who had a security clearance, a “classified map related to a military operation,” the indictment alleges.
Both of those incidents occurred at Trump’s New Jersey golf club, which means the documents would have been transported there from Florida.
It also alleges the documents were stored haphazardly — including on the stage of the Mar-a-Lago ballroom for two months. They were also kept in a bathroom and a shower, the filing says.
On one occasion in December of 2021, Nauta entered the storage room where they'd been moved to and found several of the boxes had fallen with their contents spilled on the floor, including one marked "secret," the filing says.
Isn't is fascinating how this story is forgotten?
"FBI finds more classified documents in 13-hour search of Biden home
FBI agents found more classified documents at President Joe Biden’s home in Wilmington, Delaware, during a consensual search lasting nearly 13 hours.
Other classified documents were found there earlier this month, and in November at a Washington think tank where Biden kept a private office before becoming president.
Attorney General Merrick Garland earlier this month appointed a special counsel to investigate Biden’s retention of government records after he was vice president.
Ex-President Donald Trump is under criminal investigation by another special counsel for taking hundreds of classified records from the White House when he left office."
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/21/search- … ments.html
MAYBE this is a big smoke screen to detract from THIS story.
"Joe Biden allegedly paid $5M by Burisma executive as part of a bribery scheme, according to FBI document
Biden's son Hunter was a board member of Burisma and also allegedly in on the scheme"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- … -executiveHey Mike, They needed a biggie, and they needed it now. With all that is going on in the Biden family investigation via not only Hur, and Chairman James Comer and Oversight Committee Republicans' investigation of the Biden family’s domestic and international business dealings, and a load of Federal Government whistleblowers, and to top it all the right media pounding the Biden family non-stop --- they needed a huge, I mean huge "look here not there:
I think there is a case to be made for the DOJ committing election interference. It took years and millions of dollars to prove the Russian collusion was perpetrated by Hillary and the democrats.
Facts are showing the despicable democrats know no boundaries or shame. There is no depth to which they will not sink. They are not honest or interested in the truth.
I believe democrats believe if they let President Donald Trump take his case to the American people without all their treachery, they know he would win in a landslide.
If democrats are not afraid, why don't they want a fair election?
As Colonel Nathan R. Jessep said in the movie "A Few Good Men," "YOU Can't Handle the Truth."It has nothing to do with democrats or republicans. It has to do with Trump breaking the law, not only with the documents, but also with Jan. 6. He put our national security at risk in both situations. I worked for National Security Agency at Strategic Air Command Headquarters and had a secret clearance with crypto access.
A clearance comes with the responsibility to only give access to persons who have a proven need to know. Trump as a former president did not have a need to know. He should not have been in possession of any classified documents. Further, he should have returned them when ordered to do so, just like Pence and Biden did. He even shared top secret documents with people who didn't have a clearance. there in putting our country at risk.
Sharlee: A typical conservative What About Biden response. As far as I know, Biden and his family did not create a situation that is detrimental to the security of our nation, Trump did that is the difference.
One of Trump's biggest problems is that he surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear. As a result they give him bad information. He did it with Jan. 6 and he did with the sloppy management of classified information that he should have never had access to. He has always lawyered up to get himself out of binds, but I don't think it will work this time. When he is caught he always denies any wrong doing. That is straight from his mentor Roy Cohn's play book from the Joe McCarthy Witch hunt of the 60's. "Always deny no matter how deep in the muck you get and never admit guilt.""Sharlee: A typical conservative What About Biden response. As far as I know, Biden and his family did not create a situation that is detrimental to the security of our nation, Trump did that is the difference."
OK, I need to ask before addressing your comment --- What issue in regard to Trump can be looked at as "detrimental to the security of our nation:? Could you be more specific?
I would think if you or I faced legal issues we would hire a lawyer. I know I would. Yes, Trump does as a rule deny wrongdoing. In many instances, it has been proven although accused he was innocent. I mean we all are aware of Russiagate.
I am not sure you have followed my post on Trump's current issue. I am for waiting and letting a jury handle if he is guilty or not. We are hearing one side, are we not? He does have the right to defend himself. I don't think we should ever move away from --- innocent until proven guilty.
Many condemned him and called him a Russian sympathizer, a Russian spy, and more. Russiagate was proven to be a very evil ploy. If we were hanging a man for guilt --- he would have been hung. Maybe we all need to realize, many of us have abandoned the value -- innocent until proven guilty.
It is clear a grand jury has condemned him, and found he needed to be indicted on crimes. We now need to let him defend himself. Always time for the very bloodthirsty to feast.
Just unsure how our society has come to this point... I guess I am in the minority I still feel when someone is charged with a crime, they have the right to a defense.But actually being indicted on so many counts does not look good. Yes, innocent until proven guilty. I just hope that you can take that attitude and apply that to Joe Biden and his issues as well.
As I said the charges are serious, and a grand Jury found it necessary to indict. I am almost through reading the indictment, it is serious. I have noted some charges appear to repeat each other.
My main point to PP was to point out was I think we should hold onto the value of innocent until proven guilty. The same goes for Biden. I have no ill will toward this man, nor would I find pleasure if he were indicted on a crime. I don't think I have gone beyond insulting him on anything but his, as I see his inability to do his job, and that his history in the Senate was poor, IMO.
Sharlee:
"OK, I need to ask before addressing your comment --- What issue in regard to Trump can be looked at as "detrimental to the security of our nation:? Could you be more specific?"
To answer your question:
The indictment said Trump had documents related to the "Five Eyes" — a group of U.S. allies whose intelligence agencies cooperate — as well as information about U.S. nuclear capabilities, U.S. military plans to deal with a foreign attack and details about military operations abroad.
In total, the indictment charged Trump for retaining 31 documents illegally, which included White House intelligence briefings, communications with foreign leaders, assessments of U.S. and foreign countries' military capabilities and reports on military activities.
Those documents came from the CIA, Department of Defense, National Security Agency, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, Department of Energy and Department of State, according to the indictment.
At several points, Trump discussed or showed classified documents to people without security clearance after his presidency, according to the indictment. In one recorded July 2021 incident at his club in Bedminster, N.J., Trump showed a writer working on a book a document about a U.S. military attack on a foreign country that he knew was classified.
"See as president I could have declassified it," Trump said at one point in the transcription included in the indictment. "Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."
Since announcing that he had been indicted on Thursday night, Trump has maintained his innocence and cast the investigation as a witch hunt on his social media platform, Truth Social.Yes, After reading the indictment today, I am well aware of all that he has been accused of in the indictment. He now will be given a chance to share his side. I would say he will have the biggest problem defending the allegation that claims he shared military information, as well as maps with persons that had no security clearance. It very well appears the prosecution has firsthand witnesses that will share those accounts of what went down at the meetings at his Jersey Golf club.
In my view, he most likely will be found guilty, of that charge, and be sentenced accordingly.Shar,
I wish is was that simple.
So, what is the legal precedent being used for these charges?
The answer is...there is none.
His legal team will probably go to a judge and show similar things done by Hillary Clinton, who was not charged. She went against State Department regulations and had a personal server in her home. There is no telling how many classified documents were seen by foreign entities. Then, she intentionally obstructed justice by cleaning her serve with a Bleach Bit program. VERY intentional.
Then there is bill clinton's Sandy Berger taking, nobody knows how many documents, from the national archives, for what reason, nobody knows.
Then, of course, there are all of the classified documents stored by biden since he was vice president.
This IS a big smoke screen to detract from the biden bribery scheme.
This case should be dismissed.I agree in the sense that this is a well-planned smoke screen to take away from all the BS with the Biden family, and Bidens keeping classified documents for decades. I feel we the people have a right to know what the documents he took and kept pertained to.
The indictment is very repetitive, I think any judge will point that out and toss out many charges.RMN:
When Trump's legal team goes to the judge, don't they have to prove that Hillary did all the things that you are accusing her of? Biden and Pence returned the documents when asked to do so, Trump did not. There is evidence, he even asked his lawyers if he could hide them or even claim they were missing. There is also evidence, he showed top secret national security documents to a person that had no clearance, thus putting our national security at risk.
If there is no legal precedent and Trump is not convicted, does that mean someone else can do the same thing as Trump and not be convicted by using Hillary's actions as reason of innocents?
There is no legal precedent for Jan.6 does that mean Trump won't be convicted for trying to overthrow the government by obstructing the peaceful transfer of power to the duly elected president?
I am no legal beagle as you appear to be, so I'm looking forward to your reply.Ah, I would suggest you speak with a member of the legal profession in your state and ask questions about what constitutes legal precedent. Remember the person you speak with should be well versed in federal law. I would suggest an attorney who has a practice focused on federal law.
It is a complicated subject and I have no time for or training when it comes to teaching anybody on anything.RMN: In other words, you just invalidated your previous comments to Sharelee as no legal precedent will get Trump off the hook.
No, I merely tried to point out your need of knowledge on the subject and I am not the one to teach it to you. Too many times when speaking with liberals their knowledge base is low on a topic and they can't discuss it and want it explained to them. Not my job. If you don't understand, you don't understand. If you don't know, you don't know. NMFP.
I hesitate to say agree, today many are not looking for full facts, or information in full context. The media offers bits and pieces of information most usually not adding before and after contents of a given conversation, or written document. Media picks and chooses what they want their subscribers to read or hear.
In this thread "People stated --- "It's interesting how you singled Biden out for further investigation and not Pence"
It was clear he did not know the DOJ dropped the investigation on Pence.
He also shared felt Trump --- "Trump knowingly took them to his home and did not even comply with the handling procedures for classified materials,"
I can't understand how anyone could excuse how Biden not only took documents but left them strewn in several places that would leave an opening for people to view, Not to mention the ones found in his garage, in the elements a garage weather, mice, dirt.
It is also obvious Trump did make an attempt to work with the archives, all one need do is read the timeline --- the very day after the boxes arrived at his home he notified the archives --- "Jan. 19: Trump communicates - tells the Archives that he has designated Mark Meadows, Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, Scott Gast, Steven Engel, and Michael Purpura, who served in his administration either within the White House or Justice Department, as his representatives to handle matters pertaining to records from his presidency." In the timeline, it shows clearly Trump's lawyers worked at getting 30 boxes to the archives and were working to try to comply to their wishes.
It is clear to me, many Americans are willing to look the other way at many facts that pertain to Trump's handling of the documents. And offer Biden, a man that has been in Washinton over 50 years a break. My God, he certainly was aware of what was expected when handling Government documents. He clearly ignored the rules.
Many liberals seem to skip over facts, and share misinformation. I am a stickler for facts, especially when they are easy to ascertain. The sad part, even when one points out facts, many choose to ignore them, and just continue to believe misinformation. Can take a horse to water----Deleted
My question why did he have them? What do they pertain to? And why did he keep them in unsecured places? I make no excuse for a man that has been in government for over 50 years. In fact, I find anyone the does to have a very biased attitude.
I never denied Trump having documents or what he may have done with them. I addressed a blurb People posted in regard to my opinion of Trump's cooperation with the archives. Please read my comment.
The facts show that Trump and his representatives did have cooperation with the archives. he notified the archives the day after the documents arrived at his Florida home, and let them know " "Jan. 19: Trump communicates - tells the Archives that he has designated Mark Meadows, Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, Scott Gast, Steven Engel, and Michael Purpura, who served in his administration either within the White House or Justice Department, as his representatives to handle matters pertaining to records from his presidency."
This does not appear to be a man hiding the facts that he took documents to his home.
Did you know Biden had documents in his garage, and several other unsecured places? Did you know a special counsel (Hur) is currently investigating Biden for mishandling government documents? Did you know Biden has been in government for over 50 years, and knew the protocol for handling government documents?
Your views are so biased, in my view. I have little interest in conversations that are one-sided. I follow facts. In regard to who said what to the grand Jury --- I think I will wait for the facts. The trial will produce facts from witnesses. I have no idea if the prosecutor will be able to prove his accusations.Deleted
You are correct. However, is it not one's choice on what conversations they entertain? When two views coiled so severely one-sided it would seem a waste of energy.
Noted that you left my questions unanswered. You seem to ignore anything negative about Biden. My questions were simple and clear. I thought they would be hard to answer due to the obscurity of what Biden truely did in regard to his document problem.Deleted
" Has the special counsel in his case proven otherwise? " NO currently ongoing.
"Trump makes no qualms in saying he had every right to take the documents with him. " True, he also stated he declassified them. That is yet to be proven or disproven.
It's all very damming at this point, I am taking the high road innocent until proven guilty. Some Of what I read in the indictment is very damming if the prosecutor can prove it.
I can agree intention is involved. It will be interesting to see what documents Biden took and kept. Again a waiting game.Hi Jim Moodie in Virginia,
Biden looks to be in a constant state of surprise to me, so maybe!? Did he look surprised when he made that claim?
I've been wondering if Trump has been holding onto some "damning" documents, myself.
When will the trail began? Let the trail began!
" Biden and Pence returned the documents when asked to do so, Trump did not. "
I must disagree with your thought. If you were of that belief, how did the archives end up with 30 boxes? And Trump's lawyers were in context with the archives via letters as well as Phone calls. This would indicate they were in some respect still working or I should say communicating with the Archives. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-indi … -timeline/
Facts show in the form of a timeline. Trump cooperated from the very day the Boxes were delivered to his home in Florida.
Jan 2921 --- Jan. 14: Six days before the presidential transition, movers are photographed wheeling boxes out of the White House complex and placing them on nearby trucks.
Jan. 18: CBS Miami reports moving trucks are observed at Mar-a-Lago.
Jan. 19: Trump communicates - tells the Archives that he has designated Mark Meadows, Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, Scott Gast, Steven Engel and Michael Purpura, who served in his administration either within the White House or Justice Department, as his representatives to handle matters pertaining to records from his presidency.
The timeline shows Trump was retrieving documents and sending them as the Archives asked. By the time of the FBI raid he had sent the archives 30 boxes, Please follow the timeline, and I think you may see he was cooperating from the day he received the boxes.
I don't think the indictment concentrates on his cooperation, there are much more serious charges in regard to what is being accused.
The charges are about withholding certain documents, the said seriousness of the documents they accuse him of keeping, and what he is accused of doing with the said documents. Sharing them with persons that did not have security clearances.
We just do not know anything about the documents that Pense and Biden had in their possession. We have no idea what the documents pertained to or if others viewed them... Just because they gave them back ( I must add Biden had the documents for close to a decade). We have no idea what he was doing with them. We have a right to know, he deserves the same treatment the law offered Trump. I realize that Biden has a Special council investigating the document he took and kept. Perhaps we should cool our jets and not condemn any of these men. Trump is innocent until found guilty. It's very clear a grand jury voted to indict. He will now have a trial.
I hope you will take time and look at the timeline in regard to how Trump appeared to cooperate to some extent with the archives. He is facing far more serious charges then lack of cooperation with the Archives.Sharlee: I can't believe you read the entire time-line and all its reference links. It's interesting at how you singled Biden out for further investigation and not Pence.
The bottom line is when handling access to classified documents and materials, they are only to be shared by those with a proven need to know.
More than likely Biden and Pence didn't even know they had those documents, but Trump knowingly took them to his home and did not even comply with the handling procedures for classified materials, including Top secret documents that are only to be accessed in a secure SCIF facility. It doesn't matter whether he returned them or not. He should not have taken them in the first place.The difference as even Sharlee admitted may be in the fact that Trump boasted about showing classified documents and compromising its required security to others not having the need to know The more serious charges that she herself brings up explains much of difference in how this is handled compared with Biden and Pence.
Trump has just got to be the dumbest guy on two legs to challenge our system of law in this way..
Exempting Pence appears to be starkly partisan in nature."It's interesting at how you singled Biden out for further investigation and not Pence"
I did not mention Pence due to he was investigated by the DOJ and the case closed quickly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/us/p … s-doj.html
I did point out --- I realize that Biden has a Special council investigating the document he took and kept. Perhaps we should cool our jets and not condemn any of these men. Which I think is fair-minded.
Now --- "More than likely Biden and Pence didn't even know they had those documents, "
This seems a view. I think both VPs knew how to handle documents, and I am not about to comment on why they had them.
"Trump knowingly took them to his home and did not even comply with the handling procedures for classified materials,"
To repeat my thoughts from comment --- I don't think the indictment concentrates on his cooperation, there are much more serious charges in regard to what is being accused.
The charges are about withholding certain documents, the said seriousness of the documents they accuse him of keeping, and what he is accused of doing with the said documents. Sharing them with persons that did not have security clearances.
However, this is still an allegation, Trump will have a chance to defend himself.
"Top secret documents that are only to be accessed in a secure SCIF facility."
I have come to understand, highly secret material be removed from a SCIF. Even information classified as top secret/sensitive compartmented information may be removed from a SCIF as long as proper protocols are followed. The same is true for materials with lower classifications.
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 … fications.
I must assume all three men especially Biden and Pence would know the protocol to remove documents. Actually, both should have followed the protocol to remove the documents they had in their possession.
Biden and Pence chided Trump for taking and handling documents carelessly --- Pot calling the kettle...
Scott Pelley: When you saw the photograph of the top-secret documents laid out on the floor at Mar-a-Lago, what did you think to yourself? Looking at that image.
President Joe Biden: "How that could possibly happen. How one-- anyone could be that irresponsible. And I thought What data was in there that may compromise sources and methods? By that I mean names of people who helped or th-- et cetera. And it just-- totally irresponsible." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president- … 022-09-18/
Special counsel Hur is still investigating Biden's taking and his handling of classified documents.
I do hope he is handled to the letter of the law. He was very much guilty of taking documents, not returning them, and leaving them in several unsecured situations.
The real-world rules don't apply to Trump, MAGA crowd, how appropo....
---------
There are two rules by which the Make America Great crowd lives:
No. 1. Anything Trump does is beyond reproach and should never, never — not ever — be questioned.
No. 2. Everything Trump says is the absolute God’s honest truth and if you question that, then you’re a socialist who hates America.
Just ask Lake, who during a Twitter spaces interview said she called Trump on Thursday upon news of his indictment.
"And he just said, 'Kari, I never thought this is what my future would look like, when I graduated first in my class at Wharton. I didn't think they'd be indicting me and trying to call me a criminal.’ But, but he's OK with it."
Trump has always believed he is above the law
Here in the real world, Trump didn’t graduate first in his class at Wharton. He wasn’t even among the 56 students who made the dean’s list that year, according to the Daily Pennsylvanian.
But then, see Rule No. 2.
It simply doesn't matter. Nor, apparently, does it matter that he stored some of the nation's secrets in a bathroom at Mar-a-Lago
It all just goes to prove once again that Trump really was right … back in 2016.
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Trump said, during a campaign stop in Iowa. "It's, like, incredible."Incredible doesn’t even begin to cover it.Only those with no knowledge of the law or how it works would think this indictment against President Donald Trump is something other than an attempt at influencing an election. I must say, democrats are low on brilliant legal minds.
Judge Jeanine Pirro who is a former federal prosecutor as well as judge puts things in perspective. I'll understand if democrats don't comprehend what she is saying.
" You know, I am so livid right now. I am furious. I have spent over three decades in a system that I believe in. I'm a believer, but today I am no longer a believer. What you've got is a weaponized Department of Justice, department of FBI and CIA. We saw it from the time he came down that that escalator. They started with the Russian collusion hoax, and we know that Hillary Clinton made it up, she even told a president, the Durham report, she told Biden, and she told Obama she was going to do it to get rid of her email scandal. So what did they do? The FBI lied. They went to a FISA court judge. They lied three more times. They needed to get this guy, and then they violated the Fourth Amendment rights of one American and spied on a presidential candidate, and we now know it was all a hoax started by Hillary Clinton, but that wasn't enough.
Then what we had is the FBI telling social media, "you can expect that there's going to be Russian disinformation in the form of a Hunter Biden laptop," and that's when they interfered with the presidential election for the second time and 51 CIA intelligence agents, so we've got the DOJ, the FBI, the CIA say, "oh, this is Russian disinformation," when we know damn well it wasn't Russian disinformation. And now what you've got is a loser prosecutor Jack Smith, who's been slapped down by the United States Supreme Court in one of his prosecutions, that if I were a lawyer, I would give up my law license, I'd be so embarrassed hiding under a rock. He's the one who prosecuted John Edwards. He's got a political agenda and this is all over Presidential Records Act, which is a civil, civil suit, a civil issue. And so what they do is they put out this narrative indictment, "oh, this is a story of wrongdoing, national defense, and let's put an espionage, we can kind of tie it into the Russian collusion. So people will say, "oh, it could have been the Russians." This is nonsense."They are losing control...
These are the increasingly desperate actions of an establishment (system) that has become deluded by its own corruption and lack of accountability.
Look at what they have gotten away with in the last 60 years. Starting in 1963.
All the chickens are coming home to roost at the same time.
Comey, Strzock, Bannen, none of it is hidden anymore even if most news sources ignore the truths right out in the open.
They lie about why we get in wars, Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, etc. They lie about those wars being won.
The government and the president, the truth is getting out that they have never been more distrusted and more unpopular. Despite all the spin the MSM puts on things
The world is turning away from America, every day a new country is turning to the Russia-China alliance and away from a ineffectual and incompetent Biden administration.
The most recent was the UAE... joining India, Saudi Arabia, etc.Do you think the average biden supporter doesn't see it or doesn't want to see it?
The only thing I see, Mike, is rightwing oriented alternatives always seem to be so much worse.
I have been traveling across America the past week, ten states so far, observing, reading local papers.
I think you have zealots, those programmed in university socialism and social justice.
They hold top positions in all the major corporations, they hold power in the DC belt region and on the University campuses.
But I don't believe the bulk of Americans think like that, or think like Credence or PeoplePower.
Most don't pay much attention, those that do, the majority dislike Biden and this Administration. And its fairly obvious outside of progressive haven states like NY, CA, etc.Are you really qualified to identify the "majority"?
Or is just the majority of Rightwingers and MAGAheads?
Your belief and the reality could well be two different things?As I often say, I am not the extremist, of the two of us.
That you may be justified in your beliefs because of early life experiences, does not make them any less zealot like.
Supporting a criminally corrupt and immoral leadership/government because they say the things you want to hear about the topics that are close to you does not make their actions and efforts any less evil.
What is going on in Ukraine, Syria, etc. is not lawful or diplomatic, it is military might, it is corrupt corporatist interests, it is wrong.
What you have suggested be done to fellow Americans, rolling out the military and shooting them down is nothing less than extremist at the best.
The type of extremism that has lead to the worst crimes against humanity in history.I don't like to think of myself as an extremist, but I am LEFT, substantially so, relative to most of you, a byproduct of life experiences and simply opening my eyes and paying attention. He (Biden Adminstration) says more of what I want to hear but also does more of what I would want it to do than those on your side and that is good enough for me.
I only this hear this criminally corrupt stuff regarding the current administration from the Right. What does the average man on the street say? The one of many that overwhelming put Mr. Biden in office in 2020.
How would you handle a civil disturbance with an estimated 50,000 protesters possible who stated that they would be armed? That was an official estimate. I don't want to see anymore January 6, 2021, repeated.
Vigilantism is against the law and if violence comes with it as a result, law enforcement should use every means to put it down."Vigilantism is against the law and if violence comes with it as a result, law enforcement should use every means to put it down."
There is more than one instance in the course of history when this was done by a government, a civil war erupted and destroyed the country.
If you continue to ignore and dismiss the feelings and desires of a growing number of the population, it will not end well.
The people involved in January 6th were many regular people the huge crowd was made up of thousands of regular people. Many of them previous and current members of the military as well as law enforcement. These are not the people you want to anger into action.Mike, that growing number can not intimidate greater numbers. Democracy is democracy and you live by the dictate of the majority of the voters. Forthose that can't handle that, I suggest that they leave. I would just as soon bring down the whole sh-bang, then live life in an authoritarian, reactionary society where the opposition to the rule of law and loathsome threats of a few compromises our democratic system for the majority. A post apocalyptic America is one where no one can expect to receive any entertainment out of it and no one will benefit. The very foundation of rightwing based authoritarian fascism, is that the few is somehow more worthy than the many, just because they say so at the point of a gun?
Those were not regular people but a destructive, filthy and vulgar swath of humanity, that believed that their desires superceded the rule of law and the will of the majority of voters, and that won't do. I don't care about their anger, only cowards and insecure people need to openly display, brandish and hide behind their guns, things that I got over during my late adolescence.
So, We all need to agree to play the game by the rules or we can all call it quits.....This is NOT a Democracy it is a Republic.
It was designed so that the Majority would not dictate the course of the nation.
That is why each state has two senators despite population. That is why each state decides for itself how to allocate it's electoral votes for President.
There are many elements at work trying to undo the safety mechanisms the founders put in place to keep America a free land for the people.
We are not supposed to be a Democracy based on mob rule and the idiocy of the moment's histeria.
We are a Republic built on checks and balances that are quickly being eroded away.You know, Ken, I can help but to notice how much Conservative types cling to the word "Republic". A nice legalistic term to justify a concept of the will of a few taking precedence over the will the many.
Does it really allow for an unwashed mob to challenge a Constitutional system for the peaceful transfer of power in place for almost 250 years?
We have a Bill of Rights providing everyone with fundamental protections that in theory can not be just willed away by majorities.
Acceding to the demands of a mob has nothing to do with checks and balances. This mob did not like the election outcome. I say, too bad, get your ducks in a row and do better using the tools provided within the process, next time.
If the majority does not ultimately dictate the course of the nation, who does?
"Mike, that growing number can not intimidate greater numbers. Democracy is democracy and you live by the dictate of the majority of the voters."
You mean like the current reaction to transgenders, where anyone not jumping on the bandwagon is an evil person and shunned?
The point is that it is nearly always a minority of the people that force a change, whether by armed revolt or decades (centuries?) of effort.I am missing your point, Wilderness, being evil or shunned is an attitude and thought process not transferring to the concept of usurping legal rights. Those rights, I defend for everyone, even for the man in women's clothing
Why do we have to "force" a change because a few did not like the outcome of an election? A change not authorized within the rule of law or Constitution is treason, revolution, civil war? Do we have to go that far to allow the one man to exist and function above the law?I did not address the election; only the idea that it takes a majority to make changes in what we believe or how we live. It doesn't - it most often only takes a small minority with loud voices.
You are correct, the Bushes were no better.
They had Cheney profiteering for Haliburton, oil still flows today from Iraq from which corporations rather than Iraqis profit from.
Biden is worse than any of them however. He is instigating a war on Russias border, a war that it is increasingly apparent is ready to spiral out of control.
Attacks on Moscow. Dams being blown up, nuclear power plants shelled. Biden and those supporting this Administrations efforts against Russia are a menace to the entire world.
At home he is no better, no President has ever called out 75 million Americans as terrorists and traitors. This man is not capable of uniting America or the world.
Infact he and this Administration is the reason why a quickly growing portion of the world is turning against America.A puppet is manipulated by a series 6f strings. I'm not in a position to blame him.
Indeed, he is a puppet for those enriching themselves and empowering themselves at the expense of the nation and it's people.
As if that wasn't sad enough Ken and Miebakagh, a large portion of the people don't even realize that they are being manipulated and used, so that others might be further compensated and further empowered.
ab: I think you are confused. That is precisely what Trump does and it is not just my opinion. It is a verifiable truth in so many ways.
Amazing how you TDS sufferers can turn any conversation around to attack your target. You should get a job on CNN or MSNBC.
CNN, MSNBC, PP. You are so right Dr. Mark. PP, you'd fit right in!
Just think about this for a second - or maybe give it five seconds.
Who didn't take a salary as President and has, in fact, lost money...his money, from his many hotels, golf courses, etc., because he dared to run for President? Who has prospered, although he has been in politics his entire career, he has managed to become a multi-millionaire? Why? How? Do you know PP?ab: I sure do know. Trump is a terrible business man and has lost millions of dollars. History shows his businesses have gone bankrupt a multitude of times.
His daddy left him with millions so that is how he recovers. He also buys off law suites and settles out of court with daddy's money. He didn't take a salary because he still has millions of daddy's money.
He is still being investigated for tax fraud. It's O.K. for you and others to target Biden and his family, but when one of us target Trump, you say we turn the conversation around.
You say we suffer from TDS, but you people suffer from Trump's brainwashing. He is a narcissistic master con-artist who attacks his opponents and plays victim when his cons are uncovered. He is also a child who is living in a man's body.
He knows no boundaries and ignores laws, just like a child tests his parents to see what he can get away with...Hence, stolen top secret documents. Jan. 6, can't accept losing and tax fraud. He takes down all of those who believe him and work his cons with him. He creates a wake of chaos, death, destruction, and injury wherever he goes.And Biden is twice as bad as all that.
The corruption and corporate sycophantry in control of DC has no limits and answers to no one... the MSM, the DOJ/FBI, all working in collusion.
There is no two party system, not when it comes to who we war against, what banks get bailed out, what trillions get fed to what corporations.
I'm not saying there aren't true conservatives and true progressives in the system. I'm saying those politicians have no real power or influence, they are little more than annoying voices heard but not listened to.Ken:
"And Biden is twice as bad as all that"
So now we are at the point of school children were my daddy can beat up your daddy!!!
His Daddy left him with Millions, which he turned into Billions...and that makes him a bad businessman. I do believe that if he had turned it into Trillions you would have said the same thing.
It's called TDS.Good point.
And he didn't make it selling out American interests like our current President and his son did.Ken:
Specifically, how did Biden and his son sell out American interests? That statement is a gross generalization without specific details and facts. At best, it is just your opinion.
Has Biden's son been proven guilty in a court of law? He is just under investigation by the house freedom caucus. They use it as a smoke screen to take the focus off of Trump.Wilderness:
Trump has filed for bankruptcy six times. How do you know he turned it into billions? Do you know what his net worth is? You can call it TDS, but you people are brainwashed by a narcissistic master con-man who is child living in a man's body.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … six-times/
What is particularly disturbing is that the FBI is currently attempting to force Donald Trump into poverty as they so like to do. He is a strong man, so I do not believe that they will ultimately succeed at doing so; but it just goes to show you what kind of scoundrels are lurking around inside the walls of the J. Edgar Hoover building.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden is clearly out of control. He needs to hang up his hat and take Kamala Harris with him, because she couldn't preside over our nation any better than Joe Biden has done so. Her former role as the California Attorney General was a joke, if not a disgrace."Out of control", out of touch with reality, inept and destructive, etc....as are too many in the Dem Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roUKJQyiyho
But we aren't to pay attention to this FIASCO on display, we are to ignore it, in order to better focus on hating Trump and on any positive messages of what saves the United States!At this point it is time to say --- I have no respect for anyone that defends Biden's right to be in the White House. In my view, it shows a lack of intelligence to not face the fact this man is not fit to do the job of President.
The time for placating is long over. The country is in trouble, we need someone at the helm that is strong-minded, and able to make sound decisions. Joe Biden is confused, and it is clear his state of mind is getting worse right before our eyes. We can't afford to sit on a fence, we need Congress to do its job.A lot of Democrats have lost faith in Joe Biden. To know so, all you have to do is surf around YouTube, and you will find a whole host of liberal Democrats badmouthing Joe Biden. And no Republican or Independent is going to vote for him in the 2024 presidential election. Therefore, it escapes my comprehension why he would think that he could get reelected, especially if he was initially elected as president under suspicious circumstances back in 2020.
... and we will have a fair election and he will loose.
Well, Good!I do feel most Americans have lost faith in Biden, this shows in his plummeting polls. The majority of Ameican feel he is too old to run again, and the majority of Americans disapprove of his job performance. The research thus far backs up my sentiment.
"The poll, conducted April 13-17 among 1,230 U.S. adults, found only 26% of respondents would like to see Biden run again in 2024, versus 73% who said he shouldn't. That includes 47% of Democrats, while 52% of Democrats do not want him to run"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk … b03b627e0d
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/16/opin … vreau.html
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BI … opagnqapa/
I feel independents will certainly not come out for Biden. I have always found independents to be very logical, and level-headed. Just very common sense people, and are able to make their way through the weeds."I do feel most Americans have lost faith in Biden, this shows in his plummeting polls. The majority of Ameican feel he is too old to run again, and the majority of Americans disapprove of his job performance. The research thus far backs up my sentiment."
I wouldn't want Joe Biden for president again if he were only 35 years old. He's always been self-serving.
The poll, conduct April 13-17 among 1, 230 U.S. adults, found only 26 percent of respondents would like to see Biden run again in 2024? Slightly further back in time, that same approval rating for Biden was as low as 11 percent. The next time that it takes a dive beyond last April, it will likely fall down to a single-digit approval rating.
Joe Biden may try to mess with the 2024 presidential election as he did so in 2020, but he'll likely get caught red-handed this time; and when he does, it will generate a scandal that will likely outshadow anything reprehensible that has ever come out of the White House in the past 200-plus years.Just the fact that even after Trump was indicted he pulled ahead in the General Election Polls should make people stop and think --- America is coming to the ugly reality they put a very poor man in the White House, and are having regrets. Much of Social media has turned on old Joe, and that may be the last nail...
It is clear we have two separate realities that have formed based on political ideology... the more committed you are to one side or the other, the more your reality will be the polar opposite.
Senator McCarthy announced, “The House of Representatives censures Adam Schiff, representative of the 30th congressional district of California, for misleading the American public and for conduct unbecoming of an elected member of the House of Representatives.”
In his own speech, Schiff called the censure “false and defamatory” and said he would wear it as a “badge of honor.”
“You flatter me with this falsehood. You, who are the authors of a big lie about the last election, must condemn the truth tellers and I stand proudly before you,” he remarked.
This is an example, to one side Schiff is an obvious liar, someone who is as untrustworthy as they come, to others he is a champion of their cause.
Its like all other issues today... if a man feels he is a woman, you have to accept him as a woman, to one side... to the other side, he is a guy with mental issues.
One side believes all should have equal opportunity afforded to them as their ability allows... the other side believes one needs to ensure Equity regardless of ability even if it infringes on the freedoms and opportunity of others.
One side believes the election was rigged, that rules were illegally changed and ballots that were fraudulently created changed the results of the election... the other side believes the ends justify the means, that the electoral process is antiquated and needs to be done away with anyways, that all votes should matter, regardless of being a citizen or not, regardless of having a provable identity or not, etc. etc.
The nation is broken... it is being operated by delusional people out of touch with reality and ideals based on unsustainable ideas and economics."The nation is .... being operated by delusional people out of touch with reality and ideals based on unsustainable ideas and economics."
They are "too stupid to speak" but, speak they do.
Well, we don't have to listen.
And more and more are not listening, as I see it.I thought America was called the land of the free.
Is freedom of expression not a great good?
Why are people not allowed to have their own sexual preferences?
What's it to you if two men love each other and have sex in their own bed?
Is it not great that you can live according to your own vision of life? You can choose your own religion, and marry the one you love even if the other person is from a different race, different religion or the same sex?
When you want a free nation, you have to accept that your way of life is not the only way.
In many countries to have a different opinion is punishable. You have to fight for the freedom of expression. Even if this expression of opinion is not your point of view.
Do you really want to live in a country where your point of view towards life is the only right one and if you have a different idea you should be suppressed or jailed?There is a big difference in allowing two men to love each other in their own bed and having a man with male anatomy claim he was a woman and go into a bathroom and wave it around his anatomy around in front of my granddaugter.
Unfortunately the people that are in power in the US and here in Brazil cannot see that difference, which is why there is so much anger out there.
It's a true phenomenon, is it not? I have never witnessed anything like this kind of blind hysteria.
These compesations and empowerments are for the few of the 'top' ranking idiots. That's one of the reason why wide-spread inequalities of income exists.
For me, sad has moved to scared for our Nation.
You're very much welcome to the discusion. But... God save America!
Go ahead and stew in your juices, Mike, it is still bullsh@t....
Ben Shapiro really nailed it about this situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVeUvp8pRHIThat is true. And Biden made the claim he has not ever talked to Garland in regard to the Trump charges. Garland needs to be brought in and put under oath in regard to that statement. I say (IMO) Biden is lying full out.
We are very much on that path.
The world is turning against America and this Administration with alarming speed, Saudi Arabia, the UAE... I even saw that France is now considering joining BRICs.
And here at home, none of the 'common' people trust the federal government, the distrust is becoming an undercurrent in daily life.We can hope more are willing to face facts of the true problems we face due to the growing threat of a government that is clearly weaponized against a large segment of the population.
It is clear even here on a small forum some are very much not willing to even discuss current issues that are becoming very dangerous to America.
"Too many times when speaking with liberals their knowledge base is low on a topic and they can't discuss it and want it explained to them."
See if your knowledge base is high enough to understand this explanation: Your boy is headed to his second conviction. And this one carries a prison sentence. Would you like to discuss that or do I need to explain it further?Kathleen, I don't think Trump has been found guilty of any crime. Are you speaking of the Jean Carroll case where he was found liable in that civil lawsuit?
In a criminal case, conviction requires “proof beyond a reasonable doubt.” In a civil case liability must be proven by a preponderance of the evidence.
I think you do need to discuss the legal terms further.
"In a criminal case the state controls the proceedings and the victim acts as a witness for the prosecution. In a civil case, the victim controls essential decisions shaping the case, including whether to sue, accept a settlement offer or go to trial.
In the criminal justice system, the process begins after a crime has been committed and reported to law enforcement. If an arrest has been made and charges filed, the offender may be prosecuted and the crime is considered “a crime against the state.” The prosecutor represents the interests of the state, and the process is meant to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused offenders.
The civil justice system does not attempt to determine the innocence or guilt of an offender. Rather, it attempts to determine whether an offender or a third party is liable for the injuries sustained as a result of the crime. A civil court finding of liability usually means that the defendant must pay the victim or his/her family monetary damages. The civil justice system can provide victims with the monetary resources necessary to rebuild their lives, and can hold defendants who are found liable directly accountable to the victim." https://victimsofcrime.org/criminal-and … 0evidence.
https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1151
"convict
1) v. to find guilty of a crime after a trial. 2) n. a person who has been convicted of a felony and sent to prison.
conviction
n. the result of a criminal trial in which the defendant has been found guilty of a crime."
liable
adj. responsible or obligated. Thus, a person or entity may be liable for damages due to negligence, liable to pay a debt, liable to perform an act which he/she/it contracted to do, or liable to punishment for commission of a crime. Failure to meet the responsibility or obligation opens one up to a ...
https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?letter=C
In my view, some of us are just more of a stickler for literal facts.
SharWell, Sharlee
We can split hairs and wait until he is actually convicted of crimes for which he was indicted.
But, anyone with so much adverse legal action taking place against him on so many fronts cannot be Presidential Timber by definition. The very definite odor and appearance of such impropriety is disqualifying in itself.
But again, you did say he should stand aside?"cannot be Presidential Timber by definition"
I think the legal attacks on President Donald Trump are a reflection of the corruption of the system and not about his behavior.
The Russian Collusion was a hoax that was fabricated by Hillary Clinton and the Democrats with the help of the FBI and DOJ.
This is a fact.
The two impeachments were bogus. The one over a phone call was not even close to being as serious and one made by biden to Ukraine. There was an impeachment after he was out of office, which speaks to its ridiculousness.
Then there was the civil suit by a woman who could remember nothing and with absolutely no evidence he had ever met the woman. This, again, was New York City, the corruption there is legendary.
NOW, he is indicted on something that has been done by biden and even worse by hillary.
This does not even warrant consideration as valid on any level. If biden and hillary had been indicted THEN maybe there may be something to it. Another example of the corruption and the two tiered justice system by the FBI and DOJ. One for those they support politically and one for those they don't.
This is nothing more than tampering with an election.
So, facing and overcoming so much corruption and remaining focused on winning an election shows great leadership qualities.
This makes him have "Presidential Timber by definition.We can debate these issues, point by point, while I, of course, disagree. We are simply not going to believe the same things. Ultimately, the courts will decide and the reactionaries will excuse and resist, but that won't change anything.
I am just saying how is this situation going to play with moderates and independent voters, even though the MAGAs are all in lockstep....
I feel he is facing serious charges, and can't see him beating a few of the charges. I have never seen a man fight so hard, and not be knocked out.
It leaves me to believe he is fighting to save the country because he loves the country. Plus he did a good job while in office. He had all our backs in my view. This makes him presidential material.
However, to save the country we need to get back the White House. I think we need someone new to take up this fight. Due to at least half the county or more hating this man, hate has blinded many.Is it not the same "hatred" that those on the Right have for Biden? What is the difference?
I don't generally see hate for Biden. I see disgust when Republicans speak of his what they see as his poor job skills. I have seen concern for the country when they speak of his failing cognitive skills. I have even despaired due to his flubs on the world stage. I don't think I have seen hate as a rule.
Well, geez, Sharlee, as I see it, hatred of Biden is all through this forum. The left and liberals and even moderates question Trump being constantly found with his hands in the cookie jar, regardless of where one chooses to look.
Questions about honesty and upholding the law by Trump is just as valid of a concern for progressives. Particularly, since Trump plans to run again.
There is no difference, it just depends on which side you are on.
Trump doesn't love the country. Trump loves Trump. His a child in a man's body. If his father did not give him all the money to be able to get out of all the binds he has been in, he would have been in jail a long time ago
He is as irresponsible as any child would be to push the limits on everything he does and says. He does not care about rules or laws. He breaks them and then pays his lawyers to either delay the cases or settle out of court.
That is precisely what he going to do with this indictment. He will make himself look like a martyr to his supporters and play the long game with his GOP congress. He has already started a donation fund where he can make money of the circus he has created.Trtmp? Ha hah. So that's why many Americans dislike him?
We must stick to the facts of the matter.
It's easy to make stuff up about Trump.
It's easy to pretend that Biden is fine.
It's easy to demonize Trump, but we must stick to the facts, which takes true discernment, a little harder.
Kathleen.
I think you have misinterpreted terms. He was found "libel". This is not to be confused with the term convicted. As of yet to my knowledge, Trump has not been convicted of a crime.
Legal terms
"A party is liable when they are held legally responsible for something. Unlike in criminal cases, where a defendant could be found guilty, a defendant in a civil case risks only liability. "
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/liabili … liability.
"In United States practice, conviction means a finding of guilt (i.e., a jury verdict or finding of fact by the judge) and imposition of sentence."
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/cri … tion,judge)%20and%20imposition%20of%20sentence.
I feel I know where you are coming from, you are more or less sharing your view, not a true fact in regard to terms.
Here is a comment I addressed to you you may have missed on this thread.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/356 … ost4296748
SharI applaud your sarcasm and concur.
It's just more evidence of what we must deal with when trying to make a point based on fact. You need a little understanding of the subject material and the subject before you an comprehend the lesson.RMN: I agree with you and that goes for you as well. Can you say bias confirmation?
Trying to prove a point seems like an insurmountable task at times. When sources of fats are presented, much of the time I get crickets.
Kathleen: I couldn't have said it better.
Better Kathleen, very much more factual, plus would have sparked no further explanation. This is the main problem Mike spoke of.
I am not longer participating in the never-ending back and forth of debate on this site.
I don't have the energy or interest.
I will state facts or correct falsehoods. When sources are required, I will provide them. No source necessary on this one.You're a true American. Your interest and energy is always at its peak, for when you provde proof, is that dis-interest? Come on, Kathleen. Help move America, to her heights.
Playing school children? Am I welcome? While if, Ex-President Trump is my dad, then his Benz. RollsRoce, and so on, including mansions are bigger than your dads! lol! Does that makes sense? While whats the matter with you guys bad mouthing my dad day and night 'cause he's unique? Give him some breath. And thanks.
Tucker Carlson gives reasons why biden is NOT a dictator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsNGhWALYCYLike Carlson said, they flaunt their wealth and corruption and no longer care what the people think about it.
If the people gather to protest or resist, they are labeled and arrested by the state institutions that are set upon them, DOJ, IRS, whatever is necessary.
Corruption beyond the pale:
https://youtu.be/vo8qXekf45s
Carlson will soon be silenced as his voice is getting too much attention despite his platform on Fox being taken away.
Eek...
Trump discussing classified documents
An audio tape at the center of the criminal case against former President Donald Trump has been released. In the tape, the former president is heard discussing classified documents while meeting with a writer in 2021.
"See as president, I could have declassified it. Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret,"
Audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He3KZrmJETUGod this guy is such an idiot. He has been caught showing these documents to unauthorized personnel and you can quite literally hear him flipping through pages as a group of people who do not have security clearances chuckle along. Trump is a narcissistic, sociopathic criminal. He's a prosecutor's dream.
The discussion captured by the tape involved Trump trying to rebut reporting that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Mark Milley, feared he might attack Iran. Trump was claiming that the situation was reversed, and told participants to “look” at what he was holding.
“He said I wanted to attack Iran,” Trump said on the tape, seemingly referring to Milley. “Isn’t it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look – this was him. This is off the record but they presented me this, this was him. This was the defense department and him.
“This was him. All sorts of stuff. Pages long. Let’s see here,” Trump said, appearing to shuffle papers. “Isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is highly confidential, this is secret information.”
Trump added: “This was done by the military, given to me. I think we can, probably – see as president, I could have declassified. Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret” – to which a staffer responds, laughing: “Now we have a problem.” Trump then called for someone to bring out Coca-Cola drinks.Former prosecutor on new Trump tape: ‘This is game over’
Former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann said “this is game over” for former President Trump in the classified and sensitive documents case against him after the release of the tape that appears to show Trump discussing documents he had in his possession.
He said Smith’s team has likely interviewed everyone who was in the room with Trump from the recording except the former president himself. He said this would allow prosecutors to have all accounts of what happened while Trump was speaking.
“And so, the big picture here, I think for people is … this is game over if you are following the facts and the law,” Weissmann said.
No matter what crime ex-President Donald Trump, commited, he'll always be blamed, held responsible, and criminally prosecuted. Critically, unlike the case of late President Richard Nixon, and former President Bill Cliton, and others, Trump, will never be given a breath. Pertinently, he was one of the best presidents America has ever had. May God forgive him and help him.
Miebakagh57: With all due respect. You don't live in this country and you really can't know what is going on. So I'm disregarding your comments about defending Trump. He is a child leaving in a man's body. He has brainwashed the ill informed people in this country to believing him.
Jan. 6 was unconstitutional and so is the taking of highly classified documents that put this country at national risk. He and his cohorts need to be held accountable for all the damage they have caused to this country. I don't know what news you get about America, but apparently it is the wrong news.--- I am more interested in the Biden crime family reports. Now there is a case packed to the brim with bank documents, and trails to money laundering Biden LLC, emails, texts, and a big fat laptop... Not to mention some 20 whistleblowers from the FBI, IRS, and more...I can't ignore the factual physical, and first-hand evidence.
If these allegations in regard to Joe Biden are true, and he was taking money for favors we will see a president that committed treason.
It is very apparent the physical evidence is very serious. I would think first-hand interviews are needed at this point.Why can't the Republicans ever get their case off the ground though if there's so much evidence? I think they've been asked even by members of their own caucus where's the beef? Put up or shut up already. Did one of their star informants ever resurface after going missing?
AG Garland said this about Trump's personally hand-picked prosecutor: "He was given complete authority to make all decisions on his own," Garland said. "I don't know how it would be possible for anybody to block him for bringing a prosecution given that he has that authority."
Why isn't he bringing a case?
Meanwhile. House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer (R-Ky.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) called on the FBI to hand over a document reflecting an unverified whistleblower tip relating to Biden’s time as vice president.
In the release, Grassley conceded that the allegation remains unconfirmed.
Really?
During a press conference explaining the investigation, Comer was asked if he had evidence directly linking Biden to corruption. The Kentucky Republican hemmed and hawed but ultimately admitted he didn’t.
I've been following the Jan 6 crisis to date. Trump, they said is the ring-leader. The whole issue is really complex. Have you read me to the effect that he should be tried? An accused person is deem innocent until the accusations are proved beyond reasonable doubts. Yes, I'm not living in America. But whatever accusation againrt Trump, will be news to me.
Miebakagh, I agree that Trump was a great President and I believe, that he can be again!
But, as far as forgiveness goes, that is something that those whom have endlessly and tirelessly worked to destroy him, must ask for!!
The good news is that his chances for getting those four years he was ROBBED of back - improve immensely, by the day!
The people have seen or are beginning to see, that he {Trump} was set up, mischaracterized, cheated...and then he was robbed!
We the People don't take kindly to multiple crimes, by a motley crew of D.C. street thugs, against ONE who was simply attempting to do his job, to the best of his ability!
I am ALL about retribution.....let's give Trump back what was stolen from him!
MAGA - Make America Great Again!You say : Make America Great Again.
So when (specific time, decade..) do you think America was great? And for what reasons?Absolutely! The day we became independent of a tyrannical Great Britain, we became "great".
Any time, we or any other Country fights off tyranny {wherever it may exist} we and the world are made better/greater.Yes,
In the center of Amsterdam, a text is written on a wall. The last sentence of a famous Dutch poem.
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen; dan dooft het licht."
Translation. " A nation who yield to tyrants will lose more than body and soul; then the light goes out.."
As a remembrance to the WWII.
Do you think that tyranny is threatening the United States at the moment?Unfortunately, I say a resounding YES. There has been too many compromises by certain groups regarding democracy and the rule of law. And their influence is dangerous and increasing.
For once I agree with you. We see illegal aliens casting votes on how to run cities and states. We see unlimited ballots mailed out, with little regard as to where they are going. We see the watch dogs over ballot counting relegated to a corner of the room.
And then we watch as hordes of illegal aliens are welcomed into the country, bussed across many states and set up to live the good life. We see our laws concerning those same illegals openly flouted and ignored. We see the rich and powerful ignored as they keep the nations secret information on private servers and then destroy those same machines when they are subpoenaed. We see cities succumbing to demands to do away with police. We see high ranked elected officials taking part in riots, and rioters are free to do as they wish without fear of punishment. Elections are bought and paid for by huge corporations giving gifts, and our media has fallen into line, promoting one candidate while issuing a steady stream of condemnation for others.
There is little concern over democracy OR the rule of law today.Wilderness, did you really observed that as a person living in tha USA? Thank you.
Yeah, we agree, I have problems with leaders undermining the democratic process with deliberately supporting false electors in place of certified ones, making unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud. Just an additional point or two to augment the complaints that you have already made
I think incompetency is threatening the United States at this moment, which leaves us wide open and vulnerable to a world of hurt, including tyranny.
Do you mean that people have responsible jobs without having experience or studied for it? They simply got the job through favoritism without having the know-how?
No, I mean Joe Biden is in over his head and he is pulling us all in with him.
You can say that you don't agree with certain policies, but I don't think that Biden is incompetent. He has a lifetime of experience being a politician. Compared to Donald Trump who did not have any experience as a politician at all.
Have you actually ever looked into Biden's 50 years in the Senate? Are you aware of his record, what he voted for, and voted against? I have become tired of people falling back on Biden's years in Washington.
Biden was inept, a true racist, and a man that made no mark in the 50 he has been in Washington. His reputation is marked with accusations of sexual misconduct.
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bid … ign-2019-6
His voting record can be easily found online. He voted whichever way the wind blew --- simply a hollow man, with no ideals of his own. In my view.Many of Biden’s positions were well within the mainstream of the Democratic Party at the time he took them. Anyone with a 50 year career in politics is going to have a few votes that don't age well. He eulogized Sen. Strom Thurmond... Both parties have changed over the last half century.
I was comparing political experience Sharlee. Not the content of the policies.
In my opinion, it is a sad thing that in the US you can only choose between two contenders, two parties. Which is hardly a choice.
As far as I understand it, a lot of people are not voting for one person, but against the other.I saw on the news recently that Senator Joe Manchin was talking about possibly running for president in 2024 on a third party ticket. He is currently in the Democratic party, but like Tulsi Gabbard, he has been gradually losing faith in his fellow party members. I've heard rumors that he may be leaving the Democratic Party for good. Even though he is a Democrat, he appears to get along with the Republicans and the Independents better on Capitol Hill. If he decides to run for president in that regard, this upcoming presidential election in the United States should be interesting.
I think it would do America good if both parties would split up. So you will get a Right-wing party a Left ping party a center-rightwing and a center-leftwing party.
There can be little doubt that Biden is competent...to be a politician, to garner votes, to convince the public a lie is true, to spend other people's money as if there is no tomorrow. His history makes that plain.
To run a country? No. He is NOT competent to do that, and history makes THAT plain as well.Yes, he is a politician. Island Bite just corrected me in regards to him hiring lots of people of color... As he did Gays and women. Yes, he is a politician making sure to pander for votes.
To pander for votes?
Of course he is the only politician who has ever done that.
To be honest I'm flabbergasted and have no idea how to react on this strange comment...
Are you serious that you don't want people of colour and women in positions of influence? You just want women to be in the kitchen and get babies.
Because that's what you are basically supporting with this argument."To pander for votes?
Of course he is the only politician who has ever done that."
Agree, it is one of the very oldest ploys the Democratic party has used for many Decades.
"Are you serious that you don't want people of colour and women in positions of influence? You just want women to be in the kitchen and get babies."
I support hiring the person with the best qualifications for the given job. I don't support hiring to keep quotes. I hope this clears up my thoughts on the subject. As a woman, I feel we as a gender have well proven we can do whatever we set our minds to and should be hired for a job due to our accomplishments, not our sex.
I feel the best person should get the job --- period.A qualified person for any job can be found in any group whether it be gender, ethnic or racial.
Mm. So you are saying that the black people and women who got the job in Bidens Cabinet only got the job because they were black? Because that's basically what you are saying by combining the colour of skin together with keeping quotes.
That shows a bias towards black people.
Let's say you don't have that bias.
Then what you do with making such a statement is everybody connected with Joe Biden seeing as incompetent. Because according to you Biden is incompetent. And so everybody connected with Biden is incompetent.
This is very black/white thinking. (not meant as a pun).
I think if we want to get anywhere we need to think with a bit more nuance and avoid this kind of statement. Because it surely does not help with getting rid of racism or getting rid of the highly polarized society the US has at the moment."Mm. So you are saying that the black people and women who got the job in Bidens Cabinet only got the job because they were black? Because that's basically what you are saying by combining the colour of skin together with keeping quotes."
No, I did not say that at all. What I tried to infer was that Biden appointed some minorities as well as LGBTQ due to needing to fill a job for votes not necessarily to fill the job with a qualified human being. Can I prove this --- no, it is just a view. I came to feel this way due to some of his appointee's poor job performances. (please keep in mind I did not or do not consider all his appointees do not do a good job). I find this VP lacks the job attributes to do her job. I find Mayorkas inept, as well as
J.Grandholm and Budajudge are all unable to perform their jobs effectively. The list is long... And I think I have offered ample examples. This is just my opinion. I believe Joe Biden is a consummate politician, using race and the LGBTQ to garner votes. In fact, I have never in my long years witnessed such a panderer.
" Because according to you Biden is incompetent. And so everybody connected with Biden is incompetent."
Yes, I can honestly admit I feel Biden is incompetent to lead America, but no I do not in any respect feel anyone connected with Biden is incompetent. That is your interstation, and not sure if it is fair to read into my thoughts.
It certainly does not help racism to continually point out that people of color need our help to succeed as if they do not have the same abilities as other human beings. That they need more consideration due to color. This, in my view, barely exists anymore.
I am of the mind that we have come a very long way with racism, and we need to treat all equally. Period.
I do realize my view might be offensive to some. It is not meant to be in any respect... However, it is my view, I am not asking for approval or disapproval. I am comfortable with my thoughts on the subject and look at all equally.
The only way to be equal is to look at ALL as equal, not on the basis of race or gender.Racism is far from solved. Even more throughout the years, it's ingrained in Western society. It's in many ways institutionalised. The bias is often not on the front or in the open, but it is there.
Let me give you an example.
More and more AI and facial recognition is used in many ways. Lots of metro hubs in London and surely in the US and other open places facial recognition cameras are placed.
The strange thing is though that the software written for AI and for example, facial recognition is written and tested by scientists and coders dominated by white males.
In other words, because the coders and scientists worked from their own experience, many of the source codes of the Artificial intelligence programs are based,on white male Western bias.
Tests were done with facial recognition which showed that black faces and women faces scored far less accurately than white faces. This is because the source code foundation was made by white males.
This Artificial intelligence will dominate the next generations. In so many ways. so if it isn't done right, institutionalized discrimination through computer programs that run our lives will make a society that will be dishonorable for certain groups. Think about algorithms used for job interviews, algorithms that judge certain situations.
But what this "simple" fact shows us is that the world is still biased toward white male/European male point of view. Because they are the people with power and they shape our world. It's a bias that is always present.
And if we want to have a world with a more honest worldview that gives chances to everyone, we need a "mixed bag" in positions of power that reflect our society. (That consists of 50% women! and lots of different religions and races..)
The bias that you have, and that I have is simply there and should be addressed.
You just showed this bias by telling your "feelings" about why you think that Biden had chosen darker skin politicians. Feelings are full of bias.
That's why I think its risky to say such a thing as "Biden only appointed black people to pander votes." It is promoting an underbelly bias based on a racist undercurrent.I read your comment and found it interesting. But you certainly shared your "feelings in the last paragraph... It's odd how you felt you could share yours, and the overtone I picked up was you seem to feel yours is more important than mine.
I feel it is very obvious we think differently on this subject, but it is great we have the opportunity to share our diverse opinions.I feel it is very obvious we think differently on this subject, but it is great we have the opportunity to share our diverse opinions.
The same Sharlee. We may have our difference, and that's okay. I think it's a privilege to live in a country where you can express your political opinion without being arrested.
(Although that said, a rapper was arrested here in Spain (a couple of years ago) because he had insulted the King...Freedom of expression is a fragile thing.)Amen to that Peter and if some of us Americans tend to get a little passionate at times, it is because:
"I think it's a privilege to live in a country where you can express your political opinion without being arrested."
We want to keep it that way!!I very much enjoy hearing your views, I always find them great food for thought.
Thanks Sharlee. I think what makes this forum interesting is that there are different perspectives from people from different places in the world. It's not an "I love chocolate forum" where everybody agrees with each other.
I may not always agree with things said here, but it reminds me that I'm in my own information bubble too and that the world is a big place.
"It certainly does not help racism to continually point out that people of color need our help to succeed as if they do not have the same abilities as other human beings. That they need more consideration due to color. This, in my view, barely exists anymore. "
Have you ever been to the deep south? If so I think you'd reconsider this statement. Racism is alive and well.
Also, I don't think the argument is that black folks need a hand because they are somehow inferior but rather than we need a level playing field due to the effects of systemic racism. Of course there is nothing inherently different about black folks but they have many more obstacles thrown in their path.
I rather sent my car to an experienced garage that perhaps charges me more than to somebody who has never repaired a car in his life.
That's more or less the difference in diplomatic and political experience between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
Have you considered the VP the US presently has? She was in no respect qualified for the job and has more than proved that she is a do-nothing appointee. With the lowest polls in the history of a VP. It is also very clear, many in this current administration are unqualified for the jobs they were appointed to. Most were appointed due to being female or gay. I can't say Biden appointed people of color, however, other than Harris, that should give the people of color something to think about.
Biden in no respect picked his administration considering could they do the job, only could the appointee ultimately bring votes to the Democratic party.Great point Shar, she and Joe Biden are in way over their heads!
Yes, it is very clear Biden/Harris/and his entire administration are over their heads. I said it a while back --- I have no use for anyone that supports this man or his agenda. Number one reason I won't become involved with their back and forth with anyone with TDS. I consider myself more intelligent to become bogged down in a world of stupid. Takes to much energy.
Huh?
Cabinet
Michael Regan, the first Black man to lead the Environmental Protection Agency
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, the first Black person in the post
Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia Fudge
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Linda Thomas-Greenfield
Cecilia Rouse, chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Served as the 30th Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers between 2021 and 2023. She is the first Black American to lead the council.
Shalanda Young, director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. The first Black woman to lead the office if confirmed, which is expected.
In his first two years in office, Biden nominated at least 25 Black judges to the federal court and the first Black Woman to the Supreme Court, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Since taking office, Biden has had 11 Black women confirmed to the federal circuit courts, the most by any U.S. president. Prior to taking office, only eight Black women have ever served on the appellate courts.
Adewale Adeyemo, Deputy Treasury Secretary
Stephen Benjamin, director of the White House Office of Public Engagement
Kirsten Clarke, Assistant Attorney General, Civil Rights Division
Joelle Gamble, National Economic Council
Karine Jean-Pierre, White House Deputy Press Secretary
Those are some of the names of (black) americans. There are many more. There are also latino, asians "people of color".Biden's cabinet is the most diverse in history. By contrast to Trump's initial confirmed Cabinet bring 82% white and 82% male.
https://www.npr.org/sections/president- … s-stack-upWow! He certainly did fill a quota, I stand corrected --- I think.LOL
What's wrong with having a cabinet and appointees that reflect the diversity of the country. If I were a black woman or an Asian woman or Hispanic woman I certainly would want to see some of my group in government. Capable people can be found in any of these groups. Why do Republicans tend to believe the only capable people are white males?
So you assumed that because they are black, they are just a quota and not the best persons for their job. OK.
That tells a lot.Looks Like the Supreme Court shares my mindset. Wonderful step in the right direction. Civil rights are equal rights
Civil rights are an essential component of democracy. They're guarantees of equal social opportunities and protection under the law, regardless of race, religion, or other characteristics.
"Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action in Harvard, UNC admissions "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio … ve-action/
.Well yes, many in American society today believe that when we see a person of color, ethnicity or specific gender in a high level position there is a persecuted white male who has been somehow denied an opportunity. SMH. I will never understand why people believe a white male is somehow inherently genetically Superior.
Was not America Great in engineering the 2nd World War, to an end? Her Big Boy and Small Boy nukes make those siding with Hitler give up arm.
No, Hitler did not give up the war because of nukes. The nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. Not on Germany.
Germany was already defeated at that time by the Russians and the US/Canada/UK.I didn't say Hitler gave up arms. But you seems to know Japan was taking side with Germany. Had not America enter the war to avenge Pearle Harbour and the sinking o parssenger vessls, how d' you think the war should end? Is it only Japan that gave up arms because of the atomic bomb?
We're bit of subject here but..
America did enter the war the moment it was attacked, not before. As a matter of fact, the US made a lot of business deals with Hitler and profited from the war in Europe in the beginning.
It is hard to say what would have happened if the US had stayed neutral.
But you have to know that the Russians were incredibly important for the defeat of Hitler.
About 27 million Russians died to liberate Europe. Compared to the 450.000 Americans. The Russians were of enormous importance.
It was not just the Americans who "won" the war. The Netherlands for instance was liberated by the Canadians.
Japan was already defeated. The US used the atomic bomb to show Russia what a mighty military power it had. It was to show the world what would happen if these weapons were used.
It was a war crime in a sense as the majority of people who died because of the bomb were civilians living in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. - But I guess this is a topic with lots of different angles.
Thank you, abwilliams. I've noted that. Trump, is gunning again for the presidency. And in spite of the many accusations and criminal charges mounted against him, most of which are false, his chances under the GOP is bright. Forgiveness? Let all those who wrongly accuse Trump beg him. His God will surely see him through.
I always find it interesting to hear opinions about the US from people who don't live here. Maybe that is because I've lived in two foreign countries myself for periods adding up to seven years of my adult life.
Their opinions are unique because they are primarily based on news reports, which often report a current event without benefit of background, or they are influenced by the Americans they interact with in their countries. Being an ex-pat in another country often has a profound impact on an American's point of view about their homeland.
I can't begin to imagine what reading HubPages does to a foreigner's opinions about our country. I hope it is not their only source of information on America.What I find interesting is that the US can elect a slimeball that thinks it is okay to spread his ridiculous views across the rest of the world. I am not sure if you remember this but in the recent past you had a president that was concentrating on America.
I can only imagine the twisted views that someone who only watches Pfizer sponsored programs on MSNBC thinks of the world. I certainly hope that those people that watch that sort of thing think that is what is going on in the real world.
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