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http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/ … for_a.html
I'd have to ask does it matter what Obama wants? He ran on the promise to "fundamentally transform" America... so what did he mean and who says his view of America is better than what we have? As this article points out it doesn't matter if Obama's intentions are based in evil the result is the same the destruction of America as we know it and THAT is evil intended or otherwise!
God yes you're right! Obama isn't a republican therefore he must be evil and intent on destroying the good ole US of A!
I don't even have to read the article to know, yes, you're right, he wants to destroy America. You're doing a good thing by exposing his socialist-tyrannical intentions.
Thanks! Someone has to call out the democrats on their plans to destroy America be it intentional or otherwise.
So somebody who reads the article and disagrees with it has less credence than somebody who doesn't read the article and agrees with it!
Blimey, talk about narrow minded and stuck in the mud!
Depends... what do you disagree with? Do you think Obama doesn't want to " fundamentally transform" America and he was just talking?
That wasn't the question you asked, you asked "does Obama want to destroy America".
I do realise it's difficult for you but do try and be consistent.
Maybe if you spent less time attacking me personally we could at least define the problems were facing. Obama im sure doesn't believe he's destroying America im sure he believes he's making her better but of course he's wrong and he is destroying her!
I'm sorry if you feel that disagreement with you is a personal attack, it doesn't really leave much room for debate if I'm forced to agree with you even if I make myself a hypocrite doing so!
Your only problem with Obama is that he isn't a republican.
Lady it is people like you that are the roblem. I doubt if any reduction in the attacks against you will result in this admission. You might suggest that the entire country go thru with a brain removal and that should result in more people agreeing with you. This country needs a major transformation to survive. You and your ilk would rather see it destroyed than admit you are wrong. You seem to have your head so far up your rear end you are using blinders made from toilet paper. Probably paid for by your better than average healthcare policy.
You should have asked this question when Mr.Bush was President
how quickly you forget, and please give some example of how he is going to destroy America.
What Obama wants isn't of any interest.
Yes, he did.
The "status quo" in America is already destroying America and the simple fact you cannot see "what" the "status quo" is to begin with, shows you lack any understanding of what is in the best interests of the Nation. And, don't bring up socialism, because that also shows you don't understand the situation also.
A biased argument that points out Obama is "evil". The article must have been written by some Christian Conservative who has not vision for the future. What a surprise.
Oh of course your superior intellect, vision, and understanding alone is what we all need in these trying times but alas you're more interested in pointing out how lacking I am in vision then you are in adding anything of value to the conversation but thanks anyway.
Actually, your original question, as in title of your thread- Does Obama Want To Destroy America? Is completely foolish, because of the "status quo" already in place, doing exactly what you claim Obama wants to do.
What part did you miss in my post?
As for not adding anything of value- You didn't ask for things of value. You made a ridiculous statement backed by another ridiculous article you continue to drum up from the Internet.
So, in short, you weren't truly looking for any sort of answers- you only wanted to vent your frustration. I was only pointing out that you apparently did not understand the "status quo" in place.
With that said- You need to seriously change the useless banter and bickering you love so much, and look at the greater picture.
I'm quite sure that he wants to destroy the vision of America that you'd want to see.
Obama is the anti-Christ.. it's in the Bible, look it up.
He clearly wants to gut the very foundations of the Republic, overturn the Bill of Rights, and rip up the Constitution.
Boy will he be P*SSED when he finds out George Bush beat him to it!
I know, right? I debate every day with myself "who is worse, Obama or Bush??" I mean, it's hard to imagine a president worse than either one. It's like they are competing with one another for "worst president ever" while using completely different styles.
I can't believe what am reading, really.
Short history lesson: Obama get elected for change, then for 2 years, he does just that. Next, in the election, nobody votes, or votes to put the same garbage criminals back in power. Result, no one supports change, yes? He has no support for change, RIGHT? So we have what we have, enjoy it.
Short term memory loss does not translate, into a consistant policies for change. Maybe we can try this again in 2012? if there is anybody who pays any attention, hopefully greater than in the last election. But I doubt it, with current trends.... in no thought processes, ongoing.
Can you give me a single example of how Obama has "destroyed America"? Do you have one?
I do not think Obama is seeking to destroy America.
I know he is trying to fundamentally transform it.
Exactly what he is trying to transform it into I do not know?
I paid attention during the '08 campaign. Early on, it looked like the Democrats were going to nominate a former President's wife, while the country was under the leadership of a former Presidint's son, and the Republicans gave us a lifer-insider Senator to choose. And even today, whispers of "Jeb Bush for President" are going around. But Royalty in a Democracy? That's not a good idea. O'Bama presented us a chance to get away from electing members of the American Royal Family of the One Party System. Transform America, that's fine by me. Right now we have a corrupt system where the A-holes take all the money for themselves, and if we don't give it to them, the Gub'ment gives it to them on our behalf. (TARP, anyone?) As for concerns about O'bama redistrubiting the wealth... the wealth is getting re-distributed right now, but it's going from the bottom to the top. And it's stuck there. And now, all you little guys are going to pay off the national debt, which will decrease the money supply, and make all those A-holes who are hoarding all the money, that much wealthier. G'luck with all that, friends.
I am earning some decent $$$ writing hubs about these subjects.
I don't think he wants to but keynesian policies can be annoying and cause problems. Like in hong kong, they don't take care of the people but they don't have to. Because of that the people know they won't be babied and have to actually be smart/do something besides drugs. And also because they aren't wasting money there, it cost a ton less to start a business. just fill out some paper work. Here they come out and test your property for pollutants -_- among other steps. It's not a very fun environment for men of mind and production. And oh! look, china is beating us now. And as long as they keep capitalist policies...they will continue.
Lady, here is another post that I found by exploring the link you provided. This guy who sits on your side of things, does a good job of describing your actions and the harm they are doing to your cause and your country. ZI guess not all on the right are as ignorant about facts as you are.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2 … right-now/
No President has ever been hell-bent on destroying a country. Even W in all his incompetency had good intentions.
At this moment in history, there are two very different polictical philosophies competing for the hearts and minds of the public: libertarianism and progressive liberalism. But for the Financial Crisis, these bi-polar opposites would have stayed on the fringe - exactly where they belong in my opinion. But hard times bring out the wingnuts on both sides of the political spectrum. And extemists, on either side, are good at slinging mud at their opponents. Extreme liberals view capitalists as "exploitative" and crooked while extreme conservatives view EVERYONE who is not a libertarian (Tea Partier) as a socialist.
The truth is this: the average American doesn't know the difference between any of these political/economic philosophies. Most have only a vague notion of what these philosophies embody; it's a fifth of sixth-grade understanding at best. We are an extremely diverse nation of over 330 million people. No single system could possibly work in a diverse country like ours. So we have a mixed economy - it's principally free-market driven but there are government "protections" built-in to protect the consumer.
And with the crisis, there are many people who feel disenfranchised - and rightfully so. They realize something is "wrong," but they aren't exactly sure who it to blame. Their anger is real - they have seen their jobs, their savings, their investments evaporate before their eyes.
The Right will tell you it's all the fault of the Democrats. The Left will tell you it's all the fault of the Republicans. The voter, the citizen gets played like a pawn between the rhetoric. Like with most things in life, the truth likely lies somewhere in between. Conservatives want to "return" to an America that likely never existed - the America of Ike and mom in a house dress baking dinner while dad is off at work. It's a television memory- that's all. And the Extreme Left want a world without want where things are just "provided" by the government - without pain and without sacrifice.
Most of the venom has been drawn over the healthcare reform issue. And it's no real surprise. Healthcare expense has grown and is growing to a point where it will simply become "unaffordable" for 60% of the population. It is already pretty common to be spending $10,000 plus a year in premiums. The industry is putting itself out of business. And no, it's not exclusively the result of a lack in tort reform, it's not exclusively price-fixing by the AMA, and it's not exclusively "greed" on behalf of the insurance companies - it's a combination of all of these factors and many more. But it just isn't working.
A lot of people on these forums believe themselves to be "constitutional scholars." I have never once said, "yes - this is definitely constiutional." I don't know. What I do know is that the insurance business model does not work in a health maintenance scenario. It is perfect for catastrophic loss, but it falls apart when applied to the "maintenance" of health.
None of our leaders are trying to destroy our country - there are just varying opinions on how to get it done. If we could factor out the influence of lobbying on both sides, we might be able to come to a rational solution. But I am not holding my breath on the notion....
The difference is that Bush tried to protect the fundamentals.
Obama actually said and is trying to change America into something else, something that fits his egotistical agenda. That's been proven both by his words and his actions. Duh...he outright SAID it.
So...say you have an awesome ranch, lotsa acreage and cattle and horses and emus or whatever; a big house that you've built and arranged and decorated to your own specifications and comfort and all that. You have hired workers who help you run the place. You're successful, happy, content, all that. You are ALL THAT! haha
Then, suppose someone comes to you and tells you they're gonna fundamentally transform your ranch into something different. They're gonna....make it a swampland to cater to some endangered species of swamp creatures (name your creature! haha). Anyway, that person swears he's gonna do it no matter what it takes, even transforming the entire landscape of your property, because your ranch is the big, perfect place to do it, and he's had his eye on it to fulfill a lifelong dream of his, and he's so fond of the animal kingdom. And it doesn't matter what YOU want, because he figures it isn't YOUR land anyway; it originally belonged to whoever first squatted on it illions of years ago. Your horses will have to go; your cows, your emus or whatever's on your ranch. Including you of course. Unless you'd like to stay and help monitor the habits of the swamp creatures; then he might hire you at minimum wage! And your hired hands.
So.....that would indeed be a fundamental change. And your ranch and your entire way of life would ....be.....ahem.....DESTROYED.
Fundamental change IS destruction of the foundation, the basis of something.
Brenda, Bush was an ideologue - he thought it, therefore it was. He and Reagan practiced the same thing you accuse the current administration of doing.Obama was elected on a platform of healthcare reform and financial reform. You may not like it, and that's fine, but he advertised he was going to do that before he was elected. And he did it. Bush didn't run in 2000 on a "let's go to Iraq and Afghanistan and stay a decade platform." Bush was a fundamentalist by your definition. He had his own sets of fundamentalist beliefs, I assume, and that is what he based his policies on - both foreign and domestic. I read his book, "Decision Points," and they were largely based on prayer, talks he had with God, etc. It's funny how many people, some in turbans some in business suits, who talk to God and get answers that screw with peoples' lives, isn't it? In other words, he just "felt" it was right, so he acted upon it. Of course he got it really wrong with Iraq, but that's ok - it was in his gut and God whispered to him, "it's was ok..."
And I rarely lower myself to the ad hominen argument, but do you have any idea AT ALL what you typed? I assume your "ranch" is symbolic of your way of life, right? And someone, the government, has radically changed the way you live it, is that right? Care to elaborate? And not just your "bad feeling" about something - let's go with tangible (real) changes that affect you directly. I got my taxes cut - that's how I have been "subjugated" under the Obama Regime.
Brenda, ever run a business? I have and do. I assuming you don't and if you did, you probably don't have 50 employees, so how does a "mandate" for health insurance affect you? Have any idea what it's like to write a healthcare premium check for a grand every month - for one person? Or are on you on union-subsidized healthcare insurance, if so, you are a hypocrite because you are "taking" a benefit of collective bargaining, a form of what you call "socialism" and that is bad. Or are you a Medicare recipient? If so, then you are truly a hypocrite based on your own argument . Know anyone on disability? I bet you do. Have you told them how "wrong" they are to accept that benefit because the insurance for it was paid under a government mandate to do so?
I am guessing I probably hit at least one thing that affects you directly, right? And to be true to yourself, I would suggest you do the right and honorable thing and bow out of the "socialism" in your life. I mean I take it you are a good Christian, right? Jesus coined the term "hypocrite" for someone who holds others to standards he won't accept or hold himself accountable to. So if you are or are going to accept anything like Medicare, Social Security, police protection, fire protection, EMS, etc. for yourself, you are a hypocrite. Just bow out and "go-it-alone " - like the Amish. You can do that, seriously. That is the true mark of an American Libertarian.
Wow. My reply to you wasn't meant to offend you. You just had said that you thought leaders' intentions were good. And I was trying to point out that Obama's intentions (unlike Bush's) are NOT good from the start! I apologize if you thought I singled you out; and I sometimes put things in ALL CAPS just for emphasis. Again, I didn't mean to make it personal toward you......but indeed you did make it personal toward me. My scenario was just a scenario. You could replace "the ranch" with another life of a citizen, and you could replace the "swamp" with anything like an amusement park or airport or Obama's "green-energy" windmills or whatever, and the parallel is still the same.
Well, on those points where you suggested I'm a hypocrite, you're wrong on all those! No, I don't have a ranch! And I don't have any health insurance! And I'm not on Medicare or Medicaid. Matter of fact, I've had to rack up thousands of dollars in Dr. bills recently because I developed a severe illness, plus two months later I had to have emergency gall bladder surgery. But I STILL don't want "Obamacare" because it's unConstitutional. However, if need be, yes, I would accept Medicare and/or Medicaid if I were eligible because THOSE programs were geared to helping the helpless. That's something America just does---help the helpless. NOT those who are able to work and handle their own health finances.
Anyone who gets a disability check from the government is NOT wrong to do so (unless they're really not disabled of course). The accusation that Medicare and Medicaid are "socialism" the same as the crap Obama's trying to get enforced is just a lie, one that even many conservatives fell prey to after that was repeated over and over to them.
Hubby and I had just weeks before I got sick, applied for health insurance. As the review process kept going through, I answered their questions honestly about the onset of my symptoms. They denied me insurance coverage, although they were willing to cover my husband. The hospital was nice and helpful; they discounted some of my bills because I'm "self-pay" and I'm paying small payments as I can. But if I can obtain more help with those huge bills, yes I will gratefully accept. But again, I STILL don't want Obamacare. If he and all those Democrats who fashioned that huge BILL behind closed doors had thought about the little person like me instead of trying to set in place a law that would cover ILLEGALS, and if they had fashioned a law that would cut down on fraud, then insurance rates might be lower and I myself might've been able to afford insurance. As it stands, even the "government" insurance that I checked into that I'm eligible for is not affordable for me. So I will just pay regularly what I can pay, and the hospital accepts that.
P.S. I'm not a Libertarian. Where'd you get that idea?
Ok so you are saying that "Medicare" and "Medicaid" aren't socialized medicine, is that right? And Obama's program was "set in place to cover illegals" and "not cover the little person like you," is that right? I don't want to misquote you.
Brenda, respectfully, you are not the kind of person you can rationally discuss issues with. I am not saying how you feel is "wrong" - your feelings are your feelings - but if you are going to debate the merits or lack of merits in a program or policy, you need to support your stand with facts and not fallacies. I can say something is "stupid," and without facts to back it up, it's just opinion. Now, if you want to explain to me why Medicaid and Medicare aren't socialized medicine, I would be happy to hear your arguments.
As for the Libertarian comments, you may not consider yourself one, but your throw around the "constitutionality" of things very much like a Libertarian would. I wouldn't expect that for a conservative, the word "libertarian" would be an insult...
Brenda, Take a look at www.patientadvocate.org. They are a truly wonderful organization and offer help to people having difficulty with medical bills, getting access to care, free meds, billing negotiations, etc. Their services are free. They have nothing to do with government and maybe they can offer some assistance. They have phone lines manned by patient advocates (we have a passion for what we do!) and they are there for anyone who needs them. I do not work for them, but am very familiar with what they offer.
Ooohhh sooo it's people helping people and government isn't involved! Sooo tell me why we need government again?
Hopefully, you realize that there is nothing you say that I agree with. Simply put, if it comes out of your mouth, I will vehemently disagree. I am still waiting for you to inform us how you would solve all of this country's problems in 24 hours. That is what you so boldly stated in a previous post; that given 24 hours as President, you could solve all of the problems America faces. Still waiting...
However, if you need assistance with health insurance issues or gaining access to care, I will gladly help you. The Patient Advocate Foundation cannot possibly help the 50 million Americans that are uninsured or underinsured. They simply do not have the funds or the manpower. Last year they were able to help 55,000 people and with their co-pay assistance program alone, helped thousands. If they had more funds and more volunteers, they could help more.
If you are so concerned about keeping government out of what you consider to be the duty of private citizens, volunteer to help instead of spending your spare time tearing down and criticizing every single move that government makes. And if you already volunteer, apparently you are not spending enough of your waking hours trying to solve problems. Get involved, give back more than you get.
Yes, we as citizens and people are obligated to do more than just criticize! You are not swaying anyone to your point of view by just spouting off in a forum (to which I admit guilt at this moment).
I apologize if I have offended you, but really, come down off your high horse and actually pitch in. You are living in a country where you have the freedom to say what you wish, and like it or not, we, who disagree with you, applaud your right to do so.
As far as Obama destroying our country, I think (my opinion only) you are obsessed and plagued by imaginary fears and 'not of this planet', sometimes deranged thoughts.
Again, if your blood pressure finally gets to the point that you need some help with your insurance, access to care, meds, etc., I will offer you any help I can. Just in case you are concerned, no, I am not one of those 'suspect' government employees.
Thanks for the offer that was very kind of you... however what you consider to be a waste of my time I consider to be quite important... I don't know if I will ever change anyone's mind but I will continue to speak mine and to share the truth that liberalism is morally wrong, destructive and evil, and must be stopped!
You propose that LL does something positive, constructive and productive?? Ha, ha! That's going a bit far isn't it? I imagine that hell will freeze over long before that happens.
As I have already implied I feel I am doing something productive! I must be if all the liberals are begging me to surrender, to give up revealing the truth about their evil and destructive agenda! In other words... for those of you with an Obama education... its working!! Lol
Thank you for your concern and information, Jillian.
I appreciate it; might check it out.
Brenda: The way you view fundamental change would make native americans and african americans victims of destruction of their foundation, right? That was than and this now, and names has been changed to liberals and minorities vs the rich minority, (haves vs have-nots) where do you stand Brenda?
All good points but I would argue there have been many in government working to destroy America from both parties since FDR that government itself has its own interests at heart to grow and to become more powerful. I don't think anyone could disagree with that. Clearly that has been the trend for the las 100 years and history is littered with the great societies of the past that followed the same course... more centralized power handing out more entitlements to people to enslave them and keep them content until the system collapses under its own weight. We are headed there. Obama's budget is a joke a spending spree that continues us on the path to bankruptcy in spite of the view we have of the future offered by Europe. There is no way a sensible and educated man can claim that these actions will make us better and wont lead us to destruction. Sadly the republicans aren't much better and I fear for our future unless we can put the government spending genie back in the bottle we will surely experience our own demise and one has to wonder is this being done on purpose and to what end?
Thanks Love: I see your historical point, but history is or was nothing like today. Today our nation is faced with problems we never faced before and will never face again if we don't solve them before 2012. All this crazy and dumb talk in the nation, on line, and in Washington DC is not solving the problems that can cause our system to collapse. We should stop talking crazy to each other and speak problem solving to all law makers. Our life and way of life depends on what we do or say.
Those that ignore the lessons of history... are doomed to repeat it! Sure times are different but some things never change... Obama's budget is a lesson in ignorance of history... spending increases raises our debt another 7 trillion... some say we are already doomed as the current debt can never be paid back!
love: Just because some say we are already doom, why throw another log on the fire. If we loose what we got as bad as it is we, our children, and grandchildren will wish for the problems of today. We would question our actions yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Obama's budget isn't the problem, it's Obama's budget and it's not written in stone. The Republican leadership rather than lead decided to punt and play defense. Now that the president budget is out and being attacked, the games people play continues. Now it's the conservatives who must come out with a senseable budget plan. Now watch and hear all those who have ears to hear. In the History of this country there has never been as much immaturity in the nation's congress and senate. You and them might be right about America's doom, because the president stands alone at the crossroads.
It's up to the president to lead! Now he wants the republicans to do the dirty work and cut entitlements so that he can blame them later for the pain.
What entitlements need to be cut by the president social, corporate, military, or personal entitlements. After two months of attacks on the president's budget plan the right must follow the president's lead. Will you follow the right's lead if it hurts you and yours? What would you say to the right about what they should cut first ? Now remember last year when the right wanted to lead and have their ideas heard. If their lead will cause pain to the people, they mis-lead the people.
First repeal Obamacare that save 2.5 trillion over 10 years... phase out social security and medicare eliminate the unconstitutional federal agencies like dept of education FDA FTC FCC EPA etc... then cut the remaining agencies 20% across the board pass a balanced budget amendent eliminate the IRS and all corporate subsidies... cut the corporate tax rate to 15% replace the irs with.a VAT...there fixed it!
Appeal of Obamacare would be a cost, not a savings to the American people, it only will profit insurance companies. Phase out social security, easily said but it can't be done in time to help the economy now. Education is funded and on the rise in most developed countries... That leaves FDA,FTC, FCC EPA etc, that's not enough saving to mention. Ending corp. subsidies and the irs is futuristic, the right must come up with good ideas soon. If you cut the corporate tax rate be 15% and eliminate their subsidies that would ease their pain. thank for the answer you gave, lady love. I'll see in the not too distant future if they think like you or you think like them.
Damn Lady - you are a genius! both financially and legally. You have single handedly returned us to the 19th Century in under 100 words - Good job kid. Hey I need the name of that law school you went to... thinking about getting my constitutional law degree on the side...
Social Security ia not part of the budget, except that admin. borrowed from it, and it needs to be paid back. Guess you plan on dying before you can collect, what you put into social security. Well thats fine with me, as more that die before collection, more for the rest of us. The deficit is military corruption, wall street, corporate, and billionaire corruption, and defense monies, of which no one even knows how much is being spent ! NO ACCOUNTING for defense. Otherwise, the social programs are being attacks by thoughs who, just want more of your money, period. Wake up people. Cut defense 75%, Tax trillions being held overseas, by corporations not paying taxes, and the budget would be fine. Realty time.
No, of course Obama doesn't want to "destroy America." That's a ludicrous question. However, A minority of Americans, Tea Partiers, right-wing Republicans and billionaires like the Koch brothers Richard Scaife Mellon very definitely want to destroy President Obama any way they can. Also, the Lyndon LaRouche roaches have crawled out of the woodwork recently. I just returned from my neighborhood post office where two young men and a young black woman were passing out LaRouche literature announcing the candidacy for Congress of six "LaRouche Democrats" for 2012---Rachel Brown in Massachusetts, Kesha Rogers in Texas, Summer Shields in San Francisco, Bill Roberts in metro Detroit, Dave Christie in Seattle and Diane Sare, in New Jersey. After listening for a few moments to the pitch, I pointed out that a majority of people in my community voted for Obama and they won't get very far with huge posters depicting him with a Hitler mustache. The conversation went downhill from there. Anybody know anything about "LaRouche Democrats?"
One of their fliers contained information about the Angeledes Report and advocated re-enactment of Glass-Steagall, which I agree with.
Here's a link to LaRouche's "LPAC"
To fundamentally transform the best and strongest nation in the world into a socialist paradise seems pretty destructive to me.
I think this man puts it pretty well:
Obviously, you have no idea what socialism is. Hows about opening a dictionary? And communism is dead, just to help you out .
True. Obama is a moderate Democrat who's being called a socialist or worse by people who are either ignorant or maliciously partisan, and by the progressives in his own party he's being called a pull-toy of corporate America and the Wall Street Banksters.
Brenda, the main fundamental that Bush kept alive was the use of illegal invasion...
There is nothing like starting two unfunded wars...that way the Federal Reserve can print up new money (new debt money that we the tax payers will have to return) while the Federal Government (with cronies like Dick Cheney) hand out these funds to private corporations.....
He helped the rich who feed off war, war debt, and reconstruction (and its debt) stay rich (and get richer) while making sure that the "socialism" for the common man gets wacked....
So many "conservatives" use the "socialism" buzzword....but then fail (or refuse) to realize that major corporations are already benefitting from government handouts....the same private interests that will bash "Obamacare" and call for privatising Social Security because of the "deficit" are the same who benefit from no-bid contracts from that same government....
It is too bad Brenda and Lady Love are too blinded to see reality.....
This reminds me of the Allegory of the Cave by Plato....
Keep feeling proud of yourselves while you try to name shadows....I prefer (as do many others here) to look at and understand the objects themselves....
No matter what.....Obama stood against invading Iraq.....and voted against it....
If only more of his fellow Congressmen and women did the same.....they would have saved this nation from vast amounts of debt and foreign entanglments that George Washington warned about....
If only Obama had been president in 2000....... Great man Baynor was in the legislature back then.....was he "wise" enough to agree with Obama on this?
If not.....why is anyone listening to him now? Baynor's failure back then contributes to the problems we are seeing now.....and somehow he feels that he can talk about the "deficit" like he doesn't have any connection to it....
I suspect some people are deliberately forgetting the historical context. When Obama ran for POTUS in 2008 our country was in a moral and economic shambles after 8 years of Bush/Cheney.
We simply could not continue the way we were. America NEEDED transformational change from the Bush status quo.
Obama did not mean he planned to transform American's basic foundation or the Constitution. We all know that.
He meant that he would do things quite differently from Bush.
Even previous Bush supporters couldn't wait for him to leave office at the end.
Our country voted Obama in by a decisive margin.
We, as a country, embraced change. We craved change.
You know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...
Actually, I was laughing at the last part of your post. Just didn't feel like editing it to fit a specific scenario. Your definition of insanity, yet many fail to realize, not much has actually changed.
There are still less than 50% of Americans voting or even registered to vote.
There are still high unemployment rates across the country.
There are still plenty of homes that have no occupants.
There are still plenty of homeless that have no place to go for a fresh beginning.
There are still too many people fighting for their own survival and cannot comprehend how to do things differently.
There are still too many government agencies in place, both state and federal, which is wasting billions in taxpayer revenue, for which, could be doing other people some good, if it wasn't for the distortion and misinformation, spread by both business and politicians.
So, you can see why I was laughing. Or at least I hope you can.
Lady, you pose an interesting question. I don't think he has evil intentions. I do think that his leftist ideology has him looking at America as a negative force in the world and it is because of that he wants to make fundamental changes. These fundamental changes will of course destroy America as we know it, but to Shiny and the loony leftists they will see it as an improvement. Of course to the average American this loony leftist outlook, once he exhibited it, became a source of alarm which brought the Republicans back into the House with a vengeance in the last election. Obama and his inadequacy will pass and the loony leftists will be thwarted but the average American does have to remain vigilant when the lefty slimes make these attempts. Like brush, you gotta clear it on a regular basis because it keeps creeping up and will overwhelm the land if you let it.
I am curous as to how you see America. You noted that the "leftist agenda will destroy American as we know it..." Just what are the "fundamental changes" you mention? Tax cuts? tax credits to business? Oh.. it must be regulation of the financial industry or healthcare reform - right? Or maybe it's Obama's foreign policy, right?
I am all ears. Please tell me how any of the above, or whatever you had in mind, will affect you directly. I mean I hear a lot of flaque on here, but it's mostly in broad, generalized statements - more "how I feel" than "how I have been affected or will be affected." And I am really interested to hear exactly what anyone is this administration has said or done that paints "America as a negaive force in the world." Again I mean "tangible" things and just not "feelings." I mean that's a real distinction, isn't it? I may "feel" as if someone doesn't "like" me, but as long as they don't discriminate against me or physcially harm me, does it really make any difference "how I feel?"
Also, tell me more about the "Loony Leftists." I am really curious to hear about all of that. Are they looney because they may believe there are some limits that should be placed on gun ownership - whether you should be allowed to carry 21 bullets in a clip for "self-protection? Are they looney because they don't believe the IRS should be abolished (taxes might be good thing if you are going to take care of roads, etc)? Are they out-of-control because they believe that banking, finance, and insurance should probably not be "allowed" to bring the world to the brink of a world-wide depression? Or maybe there are just plain nuts because they see healthcare reform to be pretty important to the future of a nation.
I don't know man, these ideas all sound pretty Kookey to me.
You may have convinced me - I am born-again. Let's abolish: police, fire, EMS, public roads and bridges, farm subsidies to largely white and conservative farmers, NASA, FTC - we dont' need any of dem things do we? And so what if our competitors in the world are working desperately to gain what we are trying so hard to get rid of. Hey listen, I see ya down at the tavern; park your horse close to mine. The beer's on me - I got a gold piece in my pocket...
Look how people like Flightkeeper continue to demagogue the "left" and refer to this group of people as though they were not American, or somehow less American than others...
This is the type of mentality that is destroying America...
"The House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand"--Abraham Lincoln
These are failures on the Flightkeeper, Lady Love (or hate) and Brenda....
Watching a media network draped in American flag imagery does not make one more American than those who don't...
Do they not see what they are doing?
Well, I like what Obama is doing, and I will continue to support it.
The "wars"?....by now it's like the cigarette warnings...anyone who sign up KNOWS they are signing up to work for the MIC, nothing more...the only way to end it is to STOP JOINING UP! If you have it in you to be a soldier...so be it. It takes Honor and Courage to do so....But, after Iraq...we all know it's not about mom and apple pie.
It's about control of the world's resources.
And just for the record, I have no desire to have everythign given to me with no work or sacrifice...I've been sacrificing since 2003, so people like Limburger Butt-Head could get filthy rich. And I would bet your uncle I work lots harder than he does. At least when the summer season hits
I just want all the citizens of my country to be warm, fed, healthy and educated. That's it. It's not rocket science and it's not asking too much.
We are "the richest country in the world" are we not? So, where are all the riches going, MAY I ASK?
Look around you--you'll see.
Thank God for Obama...Now if only the mind-twisting money propaganda would stop, he could get down to the business at hand.
Which is governing for the 95% of us who have been screwed to the wall for the last 30 years.
Riches are probably going to those who, oh I don't know EARNED it.
I believe America is great because we all have opportunity to become whatever we choose. You apparently believe you are entitled to a portion of what someone else has rightfully earned.
Again, exactly how much of my income do you believe you deserve?
The premise of the question is flawed.
LMC is not laying claim to any of your wealkth. However, there is no limit in the Constitution to taxation. In fact, the government can take it all. I don't advocate that - neither did LMC.
Oh, knock it off. LMC's posts are rife with her envy of other's wealth and how it would be better served helping out the rest of us.
So far you are establishing a pattern this morning.....any question you don't want to address, you merely claim "the premise is flawed".
Well, isn't that convenient?
It is flawed! I'm advocating our country start helping everybody, not just the upper classes!
YOU are saying you want all us "little" people to pay an inordinate share, while the monied interests get a really nice pass.
That is un-American in my view. That is why people escape their "Motherland", in my view.
We did not come here to support a monied class.
We came here to be treated equally. That is not happening.
So everybody should all have the same amount of stuff, right? There are no upper or lower or middle classes?
Has a nice Marxist ring to it, now, doesn't it?
NO! Wealth should be taxed like labor! Equal treatment bub, not your elitist favoritism!
So once you have achieved a certain amount of money, that money can be taxed more than once? Really?
And the Constitution provides for this double dip taxing.....where?
No,not taxed more than once, just taxed equally.
Um, dude? The wealth has already been taxed, namely when it was (ooh there's that word again) EARNED.
And if LMC did get her wish, the fact is that the wealthy would still have wealth and somebody somewhere would still be poor. Doesn't exactly fit in with the equality for everybody mantra, now does it?
Still waiting on LMC to tell me how much of my wealth she feels she is entitled to....I've got the checkbook open, love....(well, not really, but...)
Ask Dick Armey...he's a triple-dipper.
But OH---get the gvt out!!!! Hahaha. Typical.
Oh sorry--triple-dip taker. That's where all your money goes!
WRONG! The top 95% are most likely to be inheriting wealth...never lifting a manicured finger....which I have no problem with....
But, paying tax at 15%? My grandson's teacher pays at 35%.....and he works! Why the disparity gearing towards wealth rather than work?
FICA is capped at $103,000?
Oh no you di'int! That is absurd!
Even it up--our problems dissappear.....of course, then it wouldn't be a haven for the luxury class, now would it?
So, the more successful you are, the more of your money is taken from you at the point of a government gun.
Remind me where in this process I can find an incentive to succeed?
That's what lefties refer to as evening it up! They don't care about TREATING everybody equally... they want to make everybody equal... same income, same clothes, same house, same car...
They do care about treating everybody equally, why should somebody who is earning far more money than they need pay less tax than somebody who is earning comparatively little?
That's the fault of government! They made the tax code but its quite easy to fix.... eliminate the income tax and replace it with a value added tax... but if they do that congress would become irrelevant!
There is a lot to be said for a value added tax, but it would need careful planning so as not to be biased against low earners in favour of high earners.
I'm not sure if you can blame governments for peoples propensity to avoid paying tax, maybe blame them for allowing too many loopholes and being biased in favour of those with the money.
I'm not sure if I understand how VAT would make congress irrelevant.
Same tax rate for wealth and labor.
That's not so hard, is it?
In fact, that's the Jeffersonian way!!!
Stop dodging, the more successful you are the less money is taken from you.
Not everybody is driven by money alone.
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding. Not sure where you are from, but here tax bracketts certainly go higher the more money you make....
And the more money you make the more you can afford to pay accountants to shift your earnings around to avoid taxation, the more you can afford to take your earnings in the form of dividends, paid to offshore tax havens etc etc.
What to say....my admiration for those who envy what the rest of us have worked so hard to attain knows no bounds.....
Well that's sad for you.
Tell me, say somebody earns $100,000 per annum for sitting on a committee for four hours a year, how is that working so hard compared with somebody who shovels sh1t for 40 hours a week for $10,000 per annum?
You are really kidding yourself if you think somebody who inherited a fortune worked hard for it.
I envy nobody who has worked hard for their money and I don't envy anybody who is filthy rich without ever doing a days real work in their life, I just despise them.
So because they were born into money, you despise them.....wow, that is a really valid reason for disliking somebody.....
It isn't my reason for disliking them, there are plenty of people born into money that just do not register on my radar, those that do are the ones who believe that inherited money bestows some sort of privilege and superiority up on them.
Remind me, which American woman was reported as saying that only the little people paid taxes?
You hero worship those who hold you in so much contempt if you like, don't expect others to join you.
When did I say I worshiped them? I didn't, and I would appreciate it if you did not attribute statements to me that I did not make. Thank you very much.
Just because somebody is born into money doesn't make them a villain. I know a family in my own area that owns a number of car dealerships. These people have all the money in this immediate area, yet every one of the owner's children works for the company, 10-12 hour days....no silver spoons here, and they continued to work to make the business a success after the father's death. And the problem with this is....?
In fact, I would venture to guess that people such as Leona Helmsley (whom you quoted) and Paris Hilton make up a very small percentage of those who are doing everything wrong when it comes to managing wealth....
Owns a couple of car dealerships! Hell, they're small fry, they aren't who I'm talking about.
I don't agree that value wise Leona Helmsley (thanks) and Paris Hilton are a very small percentage of the problem, in fact the richest 1 percent of the US population owns 38 per cent of the wealth.
Your tax brackets certainly do go higher, but let's not forget that write-off's and tax shelters/dodges also increase with the more money you make. The wealthy stay wealthy for a reason. And it's not "class warfare" whipped up by liberals. A lot of wealthy conservatives must think we are too stupid not to see through the ruse. The tax system is gamed toward one goal: extracting the most taxes from the middle class and leaving the rich relatively unscathed. Do the math: does 10% of $50,000 sting more than 10% of $200,000? Of course it does...
Unfortunately, the higher brackett is taxed at a higher amount.
I see what you are saying, but it is still unfair to take more and more from people as they become more successful. Achievement should be rewarded, not penalized.
0-$45,000 pay FICA only
$45,000-$110,000 pay FICA , State, Federal
$110,000-30 billion pay State and Federal only.
FICA is more than state and federal combined.
As a PERCENTAGE of your income....a very rich person pays LEAST of all.
I can only assume you don't make very much money at all, because I am quite used to making sure I only get paid no more than a given amount each week; getting paid on more would bump me into a higher bracket and result in having even more taken out in taxes.
And again, how much of my income are you entitled to? How much of the year should I expect to work to support you and make sure you have your "fair share"?
How much more must I pay so you can pay less?
Not the question....how much of my income are you entitled to in the name of redistribution?
It's really a very simple question.....
I'm not asking for your money.
I'm asking you to pay your fair share of taxes.
After all--FICA cares for the seniors. Income tax pays for what?
We know no one was paying for the wars until Obama took over....so---why should you get a pass on taxes because you made out like a bandit under Bush....and STILL do under Obama?
The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab.
I think the wealthiest Americans do more than enough.....
NO! That only means that they have 68% of the wealth in America!
They do not pay fair...and we JUST got more deficit spending in order to give them even more.
Your grandkids will pay for Russsshhhhhh's x-tra 2 million. As if 57 million isn't enough.
Remind ME where my sweat and blood is worthless!
You can earn 5 million dollars and get a pass on FICA for $397,000,000 of it.
I can earn $20,000, and pay FICA on it all.
Re-Distributing policies...to the top Alice, to the top!
"Obama is the anti-Christ.. it's in the Bible, look it up.
He clearly wants to gut the very foundations of the Republic, overturn the Bill of Rights, and rip up the Constitution.
Boy will he be P*SSED when he finds out George Bush beat him to it!"
Exactly. All these people who said it was for our own good, Bush can do no wrong, you are a traitor if you question him, blah blah blah.....
Now that they screwed it up--they want Obama to take all the blame.
UhUh...YOU all made this bed, Obama is getting us out of it. You don't like it?
You should have thought of it back then....you know, like us traitors did.
I thin destroy is a bit strong, but Obama is on record saying he wants to fundamentally transform this country, and he seems to have a penchant for European style socialism (and of course we all know Europe would love to see the US weakened as a world power).
Obama's vision for the US would not destroy it, merely reduce its standing as a world power.
The top of the heap has a vacancy sign, and China is preparing to sign the register.....
Walter, what do you mean by "Europe would love to see the US weakened as a world power?" To whose benefit? I mean if you are talking militarily, the last thing Europe would want is the US to decline militarily - it brings in too much revenue for Europe. As for China, don't you think China would rather see America strong, at least economically speaking? We are an enormous market for Asia. We aren't in the "Cold War" anymore; the "war" is a war of economics now.
You don't wish "ill-will" on your best customer.
"Riches are probably going to those who, oh I don't know EARNED it."
Dyncorp has earned every penny, right? Perhaps if you like prostituting little boys in Afghanistan, and little girls in Bosnia....that billion dollars a year plus in government handouts have really helped them...
The only thing Halliburton earned was no-bid contracts and strong-arm diplomacy spearheaded by their CEO/Vice President of the United States Dick Cheney....and his resulting profits, I suppose, he earned...right?
Cheney's stock in that company went from a couple million dollars before the Iraq war to over 12 million dollars by 2005.......
Keep defending those who can care less about you.... Smart thing to do...
"I believe America is great because we all have opportunity to become whatever we choose."
This is b.s.... Ask the homosexual men and women in this nation overall, and in uniform especially.....even though DADT has been repealed there is still no sign that discrimination has or will end....
People living in marginalized communities across the nation, from New Orleans to Downtown Los Angeles and beyond, have little opportunity available...regardless of what they desire....
You can believe all you want....but reality is something else altogether...
The question is not "how much of my income do you deserve"....but rather, how much of our income does Halliburton, Dick Cheney, and Dyncorp deserve?
Last I checked Halliburton and Dyncorp are public companies whose stock anyone can buy even you! Sure connections between business and government is a problem which is why government needs to be kept small and term limits should be imposed. As for social inustice there's plenty of that to go around... I can argue Obama's immigratin policy leads to the creation of sex slaves too.
"This is b.s.... Ask the homosexual men and women in this nation overall, and in uniform especially.....even though DADT has been repealed there is still no sign that discrimination has or will end...."
Discrimination? Really? Every homosexual person I know makes more money than I do, drives a nicer car, and lives in a bigger house. Without fail. I'm not really sure what discrimination you are referring to....
You make a worthless point....
I point to the government handouts these companies receive, and critique the "earned it" idea, and you venture into whether someone can buy their stock...
Their stock value is directly related to the government handouts and diplomatic strings that they pull.... I do not care to own their stock....increases in their value can be linked to ill-gotten gains...
I like how you avoid my Dyncorp kiddie sex ring references (paid for by our tax dollars)....and I like even more how, evidently, you are defending war criminals like Dick Cheney...good job..
To buy Halliburton stock, one has to go through Mellon Bank.....the financier of the Heritage Foundation, and the developer of American foreign and domestic policy since the early 20th century... I am not seeking to join their ranks...
You cannot argue that Obama's immigration policy leads to the creation of sex slaves..... Can you even define what his immigration policy is?
I suppose the record deportations by ICE can be argued to cause more mothers (who are undocumented) to be separated from their American citizen children.... (Please read "Immigrant Latina Mothers as Targets of Legal Violence" by Leisy Abrego of UCLA and Cecilia Menjivar of ASU)..
But increased deportations are probably something that you support...
I am not talking about anything "leading" to sex slaves....I am talking about actual reality....funded by your tax dollars, and the future potential of our children and grandchildren...
Your hypocrisy and contradictions know no bounds lady love.....and your name increasingly rings hollow....
Yes and is Hallibyrton still working in Iraq and Afghanistan? I suppose Obama keeps them employed just so Cheney can get richer! Oh and how much money did Obama get from Mellon bank and other big wall street firms? You want to talk about hypocrisy and contradiction you should look in the mirror! Lol
I believe strongly that inherited money should be highly taxed.. Potential beneficiaries need to work for their own wealth...
Care to wonder how many undocumented men and women Hilton Hotels employ?
How has this hiring strategy enhanced the Hilton family wealth?
Does the time and labor of these men and women compare to those of Ms. Paris?
Hey...don't worry about road maintenance.....we have plenty of convicts that we can set out there on the ol chain gang..breaking big rocks into little ones...
Destroy America. Dramatic Much? Presidents are not elected to Change things. They are elected to maintain the status quo. There will always be taxes, and even though the Republican Party would have you think it is to "Rob the Rich" it is actually to pay debts. not debt for Medicaid, or Medicare or anything helping the WORKING poor; but actually debt of war, and keeping the Rich man Rich.
Check your pockets genious. I'm sure you have some Legal Tender dated within the last 10 years. It has to come from somewhere. Bonds have to be repaid to the Federal Reserve and the Bondswe haven't repaid have been paid by China, who knowingly sends us defective cars and toxic toys.
Obama hasn't made any changes. He will not make any changes. That is not his job.
IN GOD WE TRUST.. says the money. Built on Christian values..says the Republican
The pathway to God is through JESUS,a POOR carpenter, child of exiled parents, relied on strangers' kindness, and taught his followers to HELP those in need and they would be abundently blessed.
so..How much of your income am I intitled to? Whatever God has for me.
No kidding! It's almost hysteria if you ask me.
Oh really? Obama ran on a "change" platform... apparently enough people believed him to vote for him! Problem is change isn't always good and the change Obama is pushing is the destruction of America as we know it... that's not drama, that's fact!
Obama is pushing the destruction of America as you know it! He must be one powerful guy, he's going to change the personality of ever one in the US, change the whole business infrastructure, change the press and TV, wow, change the tax system change what you all eat,boy that is some powerful dude!
The truth is even if he was intent on changing the US he would not be able to do it, either for better or worse. He just doesn't have the power, do you really believe that he has any more than a superficial control over the banks or the oil companies that really dictate what America is?
He's stopped drilling, he's stopped coal from being mined he's spent more money as president than all the presidents before him COMBINED! He's expanded the money supply to unprecedented levels weakened the dollar and is causing the prices of food gas and clothing to rise all while extending the unemployment problem in this country. Obama has the power to destroy us and is doing just that!
Well give me the math then! It shouldn't be hard, you obviously have the numbers at your finger tips otherwise how did you come up with them?
Can't can you?
I don't have the numbers at my finger tips and im not your researcher...google it! Bc even if I gave u the numbers you find some way to discredit them... that's a little harder to do when you do the work yourself.
In other words you made it up and can not back up yet another of your claims.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 … s-economy/
More than 15 Trillion in 2011 alone! Now go back and add up all the other presidents.
Right, thanks for that.
In 2010 the national debt under Obama was slightly less than the national debt under the last two years of Bush, include the debt under the whole of Bush's reign and it amounts to far more than Obama's spend in two years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_d … tial_terms
And it could equally be said that conservatives run on, well, conservative platforms - fundamentalist platforms. And that equals either the maintaining of the "status quo" or going back to the "good ole days" or some fairy tale notion thereof. Tell you what - let's go back to the Nixon years. They were much more "liberal" by comparison than what we have now. So while you call us, among other things, "progressives" should we refer to your polictical thinking for what is is - the antithesis of progressive - "regressive?"
There is nothing "progressive" about progressive thinking... that's just a nice label for oppression... one can hardly refer to the loss of freedom as progress.
I swear, you have to be a "plant" - either put here to make the Republican Party/Conservatives look like idiots or whip up posting on the forums...
"so..How much of your income am I intitled to? Whatever God has for me."
I can answer that....none of it. Go out and make your own way like the rest of us....if that sounds brutal or unfair......life is brutal and unfair.
If you genuinely need help, I'll give it to you, but help will not come in the form of subsidizing your lifestyle on a permanent basis....
Ummmm, who was it helped the uber rich double their incomes this past 30 years ?
How much of the country's wealth are YOU entitled to?
Does the middle-class pay so thay you don't have to?
uhyup...that HAS been the policy.
That, and dictating things from DC, and then NOT funding them. No Child Left Behind....Mandates, with NO funding.
Iraq, Prescription drugs...NOT paid for.
Obama put them on budget. That made deficit bigger. Tax cuts for wealthy made deficit bigger.
Who will pay?
ritchie: Is ritchie wealthy, or just a defender of the wealthy?
You are entitled to whatever wealth you can earn through legitimate means, namely the selling of a product or service that people want.
You pick on Rush a lot, but Rush generates dollars for the stations and advertisers he works with. They pay him what they feel he is worth. If you believe that you can compete, you have complete freedom to go out and pursue a radio gig yourself. And when you decide you are paid too much, you can give back as much as you wish. Because it is money you EARNED.
Junko: I'm not sure what magical number qualifies you as wealthy, so let's just say I'm doing okay, and do not feel any great need to subsidize anyone's lifestyle but my own....
"Between 1979 and 2007:
The top 1 percent’s share of the nation’s total after-tax household income more than doubled, from 7.5 percent to 17.1 percent.
The share of income going to the middle three-fifths (or 60 percent) of households shrank from 51.1 percent to 43.5 percent.
The share going to the bottom fifth of households declined from 6.8 percent to 4.9 percent.
The share going to the bottom four-fifths (80 percent) of the population declined from 58 percent to 48 percent"
How did this happen, the tooth fairy?
Now, you don't want to give any up?
Sorry--your policies failed. Time to even it up--since the top had a nice field day this past decade. At all of our expense.
To begin with, Lady, I was attacking the idea that those with wealth "earned it"...
Concerning campaign contributions, Mellon Bank contributes to both Republicans and Democrats, and they give in large part through a bipartisan compaign contribution fund...
Not only is Halliburton working in Afghanistan and Iraq, but they have been operating illegally in Iran for some time...
Under Cheney's watch not only was Halliburton found to have been violating Federal law prohibiting American companies and persons to do business with "rogue nations" (Iran) through false subsidiaries, but they also sold to Iran centrifuges which are used to create nuclear fuel...
And Cheney goes to the media to warn us of nuclear Iran...(he should know what his cronies have been up to over there for the past 20 plus years)..
As for the ongoing Halliburton presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, how would Obama have the authority to remove them? This and other companies of their ilk are also fronts for clandestine operations...there is more to this than meets the naked eye..
However, if Obama had been president in 2000, I don't think we would have ever gone to war, let alone be wondering about how to get ourselves out of it....
I like how you dodge my question to you regarding how Obama's immigration policy leads to child prostitution....I suppose you didn't have any actual information to pass....just rhetoric?
There is no contradiction in my words.....if you wish to laugh and joke that is up to you.... I don't see anything funny here...
Well where's your proof that Haliburton sold centerfuges to Iran? I don't believe that for a second! Now because our borders are not secure mexicans pay people called coayotes to take them into the USA... of course these people don't have the money so promise to work off the debt little do they know what that work entails... the women are sold into slavery they are abused and beaten and sometimes killed... this is all well documented... now maybe if Obama secured our borders we wouldn't have that problem.
no . and what a pres candidate wants to do and what he finds out he can do are far and apart. the pres is one man hes the fall guy. state reps run the show
when people ask questions like this and use the word "evil" to describe our President, I just have to wonder if they are trying to stir something up or are just exhibiting their own ignorance. shame on you!
Right because anyone that doesn't agree with the left shouldn't speakout because that's just hate speech! Give me a break!
hate speech is calling the President "evil" - you don't deserve a break - you just need an education!
Oh please! The things you people called Bush can't even be repeated!
"you people"? I don't personally call anyone names. I think a debate of the issues makes sense sometimes so people can get information and make decisions. But calling people "evil" or other names or just making accusations based on thin air is counter-productive and reveals only the ignorance of the one calling names. Using words like "evil" and "you people" is a complete and total waste of our time. I only respond at all because I resent your kind of use of the forums to pursue a kind of ignorant propaganda that is sometimes really harmful. I hope you know there are many here who won't let you get away with it. If you're looking for approval you will need to find another forum where people don't think!
Lady, Mega1 has a point. I have heard W called an imbecile, which is partly true, but I can't remember anyone (at least on these forums) calling him "evil."
Of course she has a point but its not one I share. Im sure if I took the time I could fund Bush called a lot worse in these forums.
Bet you won't find anyone accuse him of being a "scholar" lol
Bush is extremely intelligent and very well read. He's every bit as smart as Obama but not as well spoken and if that's how you're judging his intelligence you'd be making a big mistake.
"And for the C students, you too can be President of the United States."
(If you have a wealthy and powerful family to back you up.)
No Lady, I am judging him on two things: his performance as President and his own words - Have you read "Decision Points" yet? It's his presidential memoir of sorts. And it's pretty revealing of his character and motivations. Though certainly not intentional, it's fairly clear in the book that he was trying to live up to his father's expectations, but found himself living in his father's shadow instead. And it's painfully clear that many of the weighty decisions he made that still affect us today were made based on answers to prayers. And that frightens me...
It is not a case of his eloquence with language but rather his lack of gray matter. He was just your common, everyday fratboy with sh1tty grades and a very well-connected family. He has liked to portray himself as the "common man, the down-home boy," but his life was anything but that.
But for being a member of the "Bush Dynasty," Geroge Jr. would have likely been a service department manager at a Ford dealsership.
Still, I can remain civil and say that while certainly not gifted intellectually, he defintiely wasn't "evil."
"Discrimination? Really? Every homosexual person I know makes more money than I do, drives a nicer car, and lives in a bigger house. Without fail. I'm not really sure what discrimination you are referring to...."
Having served in the military, I witnessed first hand discrimination... Though not gay myself, I knew many men and women who had to hide their lives and engage in unethical behavior in order to live off base...in order to keep prying eyes out of their lives...
It is these men and women I am referring to......these people who have to live in a society where so many bash their existance...
There is also a great pdf (which I cannot open, hence I cannot put its link here) detailing the indictment brought against Cheney when he was still VP....it is on google, you can find it easily enough...just search Dick Cheney, Halliburton, Iran, and federal indictment and you should find it just fine....
The Bush/Cheney White House (in my opinion) was one of the most conflict of interest ridden administrations of all time...
So, while you may disparage the "left"....ask yourself how ready you are for a return to this type of manipulation...
There is no perfection in this world...I realize this.. But the "conservatives" have failed...and I don't know if the damage they did since 2000 can be undone....
Enjoy the reading... Let me know what you think...
Obama did bring change Lady...
Instead of a guy who could barely complete a sentence we have a man who can articulate his thoughts in clear English...
Back in 2000 I voted for Bush.... I was in the Marines..I was raised with the "Democrats hate the military" and "Democrats are destroying the nation" mentalities all around me...
"Those evil, godless liberals"....yes...that was where I once was...
I sounded a lot like Brenda and Lady Love...
I voted for Bush because I was a partisan Republican. I also wasn't the most educated person in the world, and I liked how Bush spoke like the "common guy" (or so I thought back then...and the media repeated this idea over and over and over)...
So, there went Bush (with a little help from the Supreme Court)...and I could not be happier..
A little over 10 years later my views have changed... Instead of seeing the "common guy" in Bush, I realize that he was just a lackey....a poor one at that...
Bush did a good job of making sure the Project for the New American Century's "need to do list" were federally subsidized and justified...
His actions in response to the September 11th attacks ensured that American contractors would have the lucrative building and development deals that companies like Unocal had failed to gain from the Taliban government. They weren't such bad guys when we U.S. executives were flying them around in chartered jets..
I voted for Bush, and I voted wrong... Who did you vote for in 2000 Lady? Were you wrong?
If you voted for Bush, and you don't consider yourself wrong, how can you even think to start pointing the finger at Obama? And how can you ever hope to be taken seriously?
Herein lies the hypocrisy....
I disagree strongly with Obama's decision to not hold investigations into the improprieties of the Bush/Cheney administration...and I find it interesting that the potential doom of entire society forecast in the media prior to and during Obama's first two years ensured that any such move to investigate would appear frivilous and wasteful....
But I believe it is important to set a precedent....
Do you support the prosecution of former president Bush and v.p. Cheney if it is found that they broke the law Lady? Brenda?
Do you agree with an investigation into potential high crimes at the hands of these men and others around them?
"and I find it interesting that the potential doom of entire society forecast in the media prior to and during Obama's first two years ensured that any such move to investigate would appear frivilous and wasteful...."
Not only frivolous and wasteful but also petty and vengeful.
I wish the Obama justice department would have investigated the hell out of the Bush/Cheney administration and prosecuted the hell out of anyone who committed any high crimes and misdemeanors. But alas, his administration is either too forgiving or too lax.
We are a nation of laws...everyone should be treated equally under the law of course this justice dept has displayed a different philosophy... I'd support prosecution of anyone that violates the law... will you support the prosecution of Obama and all of those that violated their oath of office passing the unconstitutional health care law if the Supreme court upholds the district court decision? And no I didn't vote for Bush in either election
Passing a law that's later found to be unconstitutional is not a crime.
Defrauding the people out of a bunch of money and giving it to your cronies would be a crime.
Everyone knew when they passed that law it was unconstitutional! That is indeed a criminal act!
The cognitive disconnect is scary. Have various laws been found unconstitutional by the USSC over the past 200 years? A bunch have. Has ANYONE who passed the law in Congress or the president who signed such a law been charged?
This lack of reasoning is symptomatic of the simple minds who follow Gleenn Beck and join the Tea Party. In less serious times to be treated with pity (or psychiatry) but now the most I can muster is contempt.
"Everyone knew when they passed that law it was unconstitutional! That is indeed a criminal act!"
1) Those that passed it 'knew' no such thing.
2) You demonstrate once again your lack of legal knowledge.
I honestly don't think any politician deliberately sets out to destroy their country. It would serve no purpose, as they want to be re-elected. However, I do think that the modern politician has little interest in serving the population they govern, but instead are in politics for everything they can get out of it. Politics pays very well, and opens up a lot of doors for the politician and their family. Power is a very attractive thing, and if the country should fail as a result of political policy, then I believe this is something many in politics, whether on the left or the right are willing to sacrifice. The present economic situation is unlikely to affect the lives of politicians, because their wealth is assured, no matter what hardships the rest in society have to endure.
No. No he doesn't. He wants America to be the best it can be.
That's the mark of a true patriot: knowing that one's nation can improve and doing one's best to improve it.
A nationalist, on the other hand, thinks his nation is fine the way it is and anyone who thinks it needs to improve doesn't love it enough.
One can be laid up with a brokn leg...then given pneumonia and told its better than a broken leg... of course the patient may think it better if you stopped helping him.
If a person realizes that he's gotten out of shape and has flabby muscles, he can either decide he's fine as he is and to stay on the couch and eat junk food, or he can decide to get some exercise and eat healthy food to get back in training.
Exercise and healthy food aren't as easy as sitting a junk food, but in the long run, the person will be healthier.
"We are a nation of laws...everyone should be treated equally under the law of course this justice dept has displayed a different philosophy... I'd support prosecution of anyone that violates the law..."
I am glad to see you say this...
"will you support the prosecution of Obama and all of those that violated their oath of office passing the unconstitutional health care law if the Supreme court upholds the district court decision?"
What crime will you charge Obama with? What law did he break? If a law is considered unconstitutional after it is passed what wrong was done?
Now, if you are like Andrew Jackson (maybe you like him), and you then go against the Supreme Court (as Jackson did by allowing the deportation of theh Cherokee after the Courts told him such an act was a crime), then that is something else..
There is no clear consensus as to the Constitutionality of this law.....while a couple courts have declared it unconstitutional, how many courts have either found otherwise, or refused to even hear the lawsuits?
By only mentioning the few "unconstitutional" rulings you are deliberatly skewing reality...
"And no I didn't vote for Bush in either election"
Othre statements you have made would contradict this statement. I do not see how you could have voted for a Democrat... Who did you vote for?
Anyone familar with the constitution and rulings on the commerce clause espcially a constitutional law proffesor like Obama could not possibly find a decision not to buy something amounts to commerce to be controlled by the federal government. Obama and members of congress swore to uphold and protect the constitution from all enemies forign and domestic... passing that law was a violation of that oath that at a minimum amounts to perjury and a derilliction of duty.
No I didn't vote democrat either I voted third party candidates but I did reluctantly vote for McCain because I knew Obama was a socialist that would destroy America.
"Anyone familar with the constitution and rulings on the commerce clause espcially a constitutional law proffesor like Obama could not possibly find a decision not to buy something amounts to commerce to be controlled by the federal government. "
And you are more qualified to rule on what is and isn't constitutional than a guy who taught the subject at an Ivy League school?
"passing that law was a violation of that oath that at a minimum amounts to perjury and a derilliction of duty."
Ah, and here's further evidence of your excellence in jurisprudence. Your understanding of law (especially Constitutional law) is, based on your postings here, worse than nonexistent. Your certainty of stuff that ain't so is truly impressive.
Still waiting to hear where you got your law degree - I want one!
Lol! You don't need to be a lawyer to know NOT buying something doesn't amount to commerce!!
You people crack me up! You all pretend to be sooo smart but you're all just blind to the obvious truth!
The same people who are protesting that the commerce clause can not regulate a decision NOT to buy something turn around in the same breath and protest that the health care law DOES require them to buy something, which IS commerce and refuduates the first and primary argument.
So you are comfortable with giving the federal government the power to force you to buy products and services they deem necessary for the general welfare?
Will you have the same level of comfort when republicans are in power?
Will you also be happy to buy Haliburton stock if the government requires it? How about a gun and shooting lessons?
You claim liberals are for freedom and yet you would support giving the government unlimited power!
"Anyone familar with the constitution and rulings on the commerce clause espcially a constitutional law proffesor like Obama could not possibly find a decision not to buy something amounts to commerce to be controlled by the federal government."
Apparently you didn't read the comments I posted above by two eminent professors of Constitutional law, both of whom disagree with what you are saying about a decision "not to buy something."
If your job is covered by Social Security you are required to "buy" Social Security insurance coverage, i.e. pay Social Security tax.
But in the case of Health Care Reform, the purchase is optional, You can elect not to pay, in which case you are subject to a tax. There is no criminal penalty for not participating. I's also optional for states who want to set up a better state system. As long as it meets the standards of the Health Care Law, individual states can opt out.
Social security is a tax...the government has the power to tax and the 16 amendent gives the government the power to deduct those taxes from your pay... that money us returned to you when you retire. The health care bill requires you to buy insurance even the Obama administration gas argued this is NOT a tax even though they want to use the IRS to enforce it. In spite of how esteemed you believe your sources to be or whatever degree they have from whatever ivy league organization they are quite simply WRONG... and I will be vindicated when the supreme court makes their ruling.
Social Security wouldn't work if only the people expecting to live to 90 signed up, and health insurance won't work if people wait til they're sick to sign up.
In a lot if ways social security doesn't work... but regardless the issue isn't what's needed to make health care work its whether or not what's been proposed us constitutional and clearly it is not!
By the way, Lady, did you finish reading the articles I posted yet?
Did you glance through the indictment?
And, as far as Constitutionality goes, again....this is all debatable...
As we both should know....this document can be interpreted many ways...
The Supreme Court today is stacked to the right.....and (especially after the Citizens United case) I have very little faith in the "objectivity" of the dominant members...
Yet, we don't know what the courts will ultimately decide....
Again...it is one thing to sign into law something later to be found unconstitutional...
What Bush and Cheney were up to was something altogether different...(but using your logic, you should support Bush/Cheney Behind Bars for the Patriot Act...right?)
You didn't answer concerning whether or not you read the sources that you requested...
I will ask again later on if you still haven't "found the time" to respond to my query..
Not unless you want to put Obama behind bars for the same reason... he voted for the Patriot act as senator and has extended it as president and he will extend it again... most likely to 2013!
You know what they did, don't you? This was reported on NPR...no wonder they don't want to fund it!: Bushco aka PNAC had a Patriot Act in mind...but Congress said it infringed on way too many rights..so Congress drafted another one they could vote on. At 3:00am on the morning they were to vote on it, Bushco switched the newly-drafted Act for the original rights-killing one...and people voting on it didn't know. The ole switcherooo--according to NPR, and yes, I will look it up.
But in the meantime, here's the articles of impeachment...very simple and easy to read:
http://kucinich.house.gov/News/Document … ntID=93581
Don't even THINK of anyone else, until we deal with them! Or we are cowards, and no-good Americans!
President O'bama doesn't need to destroy america. Big corporations are already doing that single handed without his help.
We need to stop blaming the government for our problems, when the true problem is america's greed, and wealthy corporations sitting on huge profits, playing the waiting game, until working america gives in, and starts working for next to nothing, with no benefits.
That is what is killing america.
If everyone was working, and making a decent living without killing themselves for a careless corporation. America would be a lot better off. Blaming O'bama for something that has been going on for the last 10 years is an old arguement. But, it's a true one.
Neither Osama nor Obama can destroy America. Osama bin laden, cant do any harm to America. To counter an enemy, equal force or more than that has to be applied. But with money power only, Osama sends terrorists to attack innocent people and life-less buildings. How can he destroy America? He may just dream of it. Such people will get destroyed in due course. A snake charmer will always get bitten by his own snake one day.
It is also not a sin to dream of destroying America. Think of Iraq's strong man Saddam Hussain..... his last moments... he is dragged by his own countrymen to the gallows. Within minutes, he was hanged. Many of us here in India stopped breathing for a while. Have any American thought of how much passion it had aroused throughout the world? If an American president is being hanged like that, will they not get agitated?
Bin laden is the total accumulation of America's sins. It will surely cause damage, but cannot destroy America.
Maybe people expected Mr Obama to wave a magic wand and make everything alright in one day. And he hasn't been able to. True Obama should clamp down on the forclosure of homes. No one likes to lost their homes. America is among the hardest hit by the great depression but I thought the Trillions of dollars announced for injection into America by Obama just yesterday may have come as good news. If all else fails if my reckoning is correct then 2012 is the time for the next Presidential elections so MR Obama has a little time left to put things right. If not next time the election result may go a different way.
Just a like an outsider.
It would be nice if the politicians in America would handle or even approach the Economy properly, but instead they all love to pass along misinformation, distortion(to keep fear alive) and pull money out of thin air.
I guess that's nothing new.
The question is does Obama WANT to destroy America? I don't want to believe that he wants to destroy our great country, but he never promised to make it "BETTER", just change it. So far, and I'm no pro on the subject, but it seems he is making changes that hurts our lively-hood, our dreams, our families, (both financially and medically). He seems to be making it better for certain minorities while weakening our overall economy. Any body out there lose their home yet? Anyone have extreme medical bills due to outrageous premium costs? How about those gas prices? When are our soldiers really coming home to stay? How many USA homeless are not being helped? When will credit card companies really be stopped from charging such high interest rates? Will Obama feed our children when we are finally tapped out? Maybe he'll bring some funding back to DSHS instead of sending trillions to other countries. When are we going to be able to say that the USA takes care of their own first? I suppose our president is doing something he promised to do. He's still in office, right? I don't know, maybe I don't get what he's doing, but it sure doesn't seem like he's mending America.
According to our history, the federal gvt is above the law.
They used to hide it, but why bother??
No one cares if they break the law...so there you go.
And we made it possible with our consent for Bushco.
Since we didn't speak then, we must forever hold our peace.
Unless we hold them accountable, what is the point?
And if we don't--anything that comes along after is sanctioned by the people of the USA.
So quit yer b*tchin, and lie in the bed we made.
Nothing is against the law if Bushco gets away.
Only thing I would tell fellow Americans...just don't get caught.
Two (or three, or whatever) wrongs don't make a right.
Even the old wild West ended up needing Marshalls and Sheriffs and the Cavalry to keep some semblance of law and order.
But you go right ahead and advocate for total lawlessness.
Betcha you'll be "clinging to" your "guns and religion" right along with the conservatives after a while. LOL
I will NEVER own a gun, and as one rap artist said: "If I believe in God, why do I need religion?"
What you don't see is all your talk bashing Obama is tiddly-winks compared to Bush.
So, unless you deal with Bush---your tirades against Obama, or anyone else for that matter, fall on deaf ears. It's cotton candy.
It's not like Bush happened decades ago...it was just 10 yrs.
And I know you like to white-wash it and act like it was no big deal.....
But, as an American, I will never get over it, and I will never forgive.
I will always wait for Justice, and nothing will ever compare to that horror.
9/11 was the beginning of the end for US.
and now check this out: Germany bought the New York Stock Exchange!!!
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/02/15/d … -buy-nyse/
I thought Murdoch owned that?
Buyin and sellin America......the fun never ends.
If 911 was, as you say, the beginning of the end for America (and indeed it might be)...then why aren't you blaming the ones who took down the Twin Towers instead of blaming Bush?
Oh...that's right...I think you're one of those who think Bush orchestrated the whole event(s).
Wow. And the terrorists get off scott-free in your book. That's truly the justice you wait for---not.
It's more like big business is on a track to destroy America, kill off as many of us as possible, all because the top 1% of rich people feel they are the only ones entitled to the dwindling resources. Politicians from Both sides just help them accomplish that task
That's just laughable! Lol! Big business relies on profits from serving the demands of their customers with products at a price they are willing to pay! Why would they want to kill their customers the ones that actually make the rich...rich? Lol
That's the way they want people to think. so you tell me why Social Security is on the chopping block. To big business, people over 50 are hard to control and harder to sell items to. When you have enough money to last 10 lifetimes why do you need so many consumers? Try some research!
There's thousands of products people over 50 buy... viagra for one! Lol But what does social security have to do with that, its a government program... and trust me, its NOT on the chopping block... at worst they'll raise the retirement age.
So Who will retire in the future? Everyone is going to be rich? Viagra is just One sale item, believe me many young guys buy it too. But people over 50 do not exist for the most part to businesses. They want Consumers who will buy, buy, buy, those younger than 50 basically.
I don't agree... people over 50 have money and can afford a lot more than the under 30 crowd.
You can agree or disagree it's your right. People over 50 have been given pink slips left and right so no, they do not have all kinds of money. I'm not sure what America you live in but this one where I sit and work in, has many people over 50 Not rich and Not having all kinds of money to spend. But that's OK.
Real unemployment is over 16% so I gave no doubt many over 50 are hurting... but those that are employed are at the top of their earning pontential if they are still in their primary career.
You just answered it: "Those that Are employed." Yet, not enough of them are out there to constitute the 'target market' the companies are seeking. They want the Larger, targets. You do not know all companies have a target market? Take drugs for instance, I'm going to want large numbers of seniors to buy drugs at top prices yet the Younger consumer is going to sustain my drug company longer by buying those drugs. When I worked with the mentally ill, we had 'medicine shows' marketing to us, psychotropic drugs for young people to use for a Very long time, or so they hoped. Otherwise why market to us to promote and recommend certain drugs? I've worked nursing homes, marketers wined ad dined me all the time because I did discharges and recommended companies for home care.
Remind me again where any of us are guaranteed to be rich or have money to spend?
OK, ready to hate me, masses.... YES he is destroying Native America!
Every president from the beginning has slowly been dissolving the fabric of freedom, and selling the term "freedom" to enslave our parents to mass consumerism, so that America can rise as a world power and dominate, the ethnic cleansing that took place, most severely affected the tribes my Ancestors were in, the Eastern tribes, all but traces are left. Slavery and all of its stupidity started by the U.S. government, they had a free chance to release slaves in the Declaration of independence, but NO... why slow down America's progress.
Ethnic cleansing is still happening today, while more and more immigrants pour in by the thousands every year, and small interest groups push progressive ideas, not one of them consider the Natives to this country, or their children, they all trample it underfoot, trashing it and wanting more consumerism...all Obama, only 1/2 American at that, with no loyalty to this countries foundation (and I do not mean constitution, though it beats what laws are today, but I mean the reason first Europeans poured in by the droves....to escape monarchy and slavery by kings to smell and taste real freedom, that Native Americans already knew too well) is pushing more consumerism!
All you who love Obama are killing the young kids, who have no past, as its being erased, no real History of America is taught, and no future, you teach them to work 9-5 and work to spend to work to spend, and they all want spiritual awakening.... so they resort to drugs and suicide... all you shallow and "modern" people keep trampling this ground, once holy and sacred, and this earth will spit you out very soon, and our ancestors will take no pity on you...
Obama may not be the best President we ever had, but it is not him who is destroying America, It is the BIG greedy business men, why do you thing businesses are moving overseas in droves? so the can screw America and line there pockets while the rest of us suffer. They don't care about YOU or ME.............
Actually they move jobs overseas because the tax system is so oppressive in this country, it's simply far easier to do business outside of the US.
Perhaps when government makes it attractive for businesses to establish themselves here, we will see a return to our shores....
if you still think that Obama has any power to make the economy better, then I pity you.
I am no Government supporter, because quite frankly they do nothing that is a greater good that doesn't make their wallets fatter, but.. the bailout of the banks was already in the midst before he raised his hand and took office.
The stimulus and unemployment extension helped it not be an Egypt type situation over here, because people were broke and not getting hired. not just fast food, and retail, but lawyers and businessmen were S.O.L.
Extending the tax cuts for the rich hasn't created any jobs. it just makes it where that billionare can keep more of their riches and pay more to the government on the back end (special interests),when honestly EVERYONE should look at there check and be pissed about taxes, not just people that aren't rich.
~FAIR TAX~ all the way! Down with the Federal Reserve, down with the IRS!
look up the communist Manifesto. we have long been in the process of being "transformed". It didn't just start at Barack.
"Does Obama want to destroy America?"
He lives here. His family lives here. He has no other home, and now he's in line for a comfortable pension for life, not to mention many attractive post-Presidency career opportunities (speaking, consulting, teaching--don't forget he's taught constitutional law!--and so on.)
He'd be flat raving cuckoo to want destroy America.
And that's leaving aside the fact that he speaks eloquently and glowingly about America's virtues in a way that would be very, very hard to fake.
IMO, if anything destroys America, it will be our new habit of substituting conspiracy theory for rational thought.
Lady, have you finished your readings yet?
I provided you with some great sources....
Can you distinguish between illegal acts as president (deserving prosecution) and the legislative/judicial review process?
So you're telling me that the constitution gives the federal government the power to make citizens buy stuff and that was indeed the intention of the founders and Obama and all the congressman that supported the law knew this to be so?
Did you read the decision of Judge Vinson?
"Discrimination? Really? Every homosexual person I know makes more money than I do, drives a nicer car, and lives in a bigger house. Without fail. I'm not really sure what discrimination you are referring to...."<--- Bill D Richie
Evidently you are blind.... Here is one aspect of the discrimination that I am talking about...
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/f … amendment/
To point to some homosexuals you know and to then determine their status based on material possessions is flawed and ignorant...and it points to your own inner biases..
Your statement also forces me to question your logic skills.... Are all homosexuals wealthy? Do they all have nice houses and cars? Or are there poor and destitute homosexuals too?
This is where discrimination intersects..... If one is poor he or she is already being pushed against... Then to be homosexual as well......
I know, I know...a brain has to want to work before the thought process truly takes place.... It just saddens me to see so many people who waste their minds...
For people who don't like government regulation, "conservatives" love having the government regulate those they don't like.....
Again....the hypocrisy abounds...
So, what you're telling me is that
1) You didn't read the articles that you requested
2) You have evidently forgotten what we were discussing.
Have I read Judge Vinson?
Have you read the arguments from the Judges who deemed the health care law constitutional?
Have you read the reasons why 12 other judges refused to even hear the case?
Can you read the sources I left behind earlier in this thread? I posted them for you in response to your own request...
Im sorry... I tried to read it but it talks about associations between Cheney, Bush, Osama bin Laden and the Taliban that goes back to 1996! He'll, even Saddam was once our friend and Obama has had guests at the White House that are now considered terrorists not to mention how many visits he's had by Andy Stern or the vast number of radicals, socialists and communists that pepper his administration... I just don't have time to research and respond to all that crap! What do you want me to say? Power corrupts so WHY would ANYONE favor more government? What makes you think the liberal socialist democrats are any better?
I hope you are reading....
Yet, I have noticed so many of you "conservatives" tend to run off and hide when you are faced with serious questioning....
Is your nose in a book or article, or are you hiding under a rock until my questions are buried in this forum?
I can assure you, my questions will follow you around... Unlike you, I will not forget...
I would expect you to take the same fervor, hostility, and outspokenness to make sure that true criminals are brought to justice...
Your response just brushes this stuff off.....and shows your true biases...
If only it was Democrat Obama who was president then, and who had done the very same things as Bush.....what would you say then?
Your actions speak much louder than your words...
If you cannot dive into what I offered, and if you cannot see the deep implications of what was provided, how can you even think of going after Obama?
Your lack of critical thinking skills is appalling...
I am glad that the general public can follow this dialogue and see who really "knows" things, and who is just ranting....
I lack critical thinking??? You list a far left radical rag as a source with information that goes back to a time before Bush was president and you expect what... that I would have at my finger tips information to dispute that garbage??? That would be like you having info on yet another woman abused by clinton while he was governor of AK!
like Lady, it seems you have some reading problems. I guess you decided not to read the link I posted for you...
It didn't have anything to do with the military..
You and Lady are two peas in a very deluded pod...
Again, I am glad that everyone can read this, and see for themselves how ridiculous you both are..
Keep those Bushie Blinders on!
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