what is this new thing going on in the dating world where a man asks a woman out on a date and then wants her to pay half of the bill. It's not about the money, it's the fact that he asked her out on a date, she took the time to get dressed up. For me that would be the last date, but what do you think?
You got that right buddy. If a man asks a woman to pay half the bill after asking her out on a date, that is the SCRUB alert. That is totally unacceptable. To all my guys out there...DON'T LET THOSE WORDS COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH ON A DATE. LOL (but I'm serious)
Hi Contrice, you tell them!!!..lol I wrote a hub on this topic about going Dutch (not ok) and one lady went off on me, saying that she was from the time of the womens movement and comparing it to prostitution...what a joke, just wanted to share that with you.
to equate a man paying for dinner with prostitution?
people have different views, but that to me sounds rather presumptuous on both ends. I think second time around dating is more open now but there are also women who very much use first time dinner dates as just that, a free dinner.
I don't think this is probably the case for the average, decent woman who is seeking a date with a gentleman.
I'm of the Women's Movement era too, but here's how I see that one: I'm having an engagement party for my daughter. I invited a bunch of people, and they'll all be getting their dinner and desserts paid for! So, guys or gals/young or old - what - are they all prostitutes too?
Lisa, even at a party, in Australia there's an expectation of reciprocity - a plate of food, drinks or a gift, or a combination thereof. Anyone who arrived at the party empty-handed would be regarded as a cheapskate and wouldn't get invited again!
And of course I'm not suggesting a man pays for one date and expects sex in return. But my culture demands he gets something in return, and I'd be up myself if I suggested it was simply the pleasure of gazing on my dazzling beauty (or gratitude that I "took the trouble to dress up" as the OP said).
I agree people do have different views, but I wonder where that frame of mind had come from? To think that a man paying for dinner is a form of prostitution. Where does that thinking come from? So is the man buying the engagement ring a form of prostitution also? I don't care how modern the times are a gentleman should still be paying for dinner.
it sounds to me like some outragious feminist movement act. Don't get wrong, I'm all for equal rights among the sexes, but I think feminism gets carried too far sometimes. I apologize to anyone that i offend saying that, but I'm just venting out an opinion, and mean no offense by it.
however, to answer the question, i always thought it was customary for the man to pay for EVERY date he goes out on with the girl. At least, that's how i was raised. even if the girl was the one that asked him out, then the guy still has to pay.
The thought of having the girl pay half the bill has never entered my head - especially not in that situation. Even on non-romantic dates, I either pay the full bill, or somebody else does. If somebody offers to split it with me, I just pay the whole thing. I don't know, but splitting the bill seems somehow so stingy.
Duffsmom and others are right: Whoever invites should pay.
Years ago, I had a woman ask me out. Fortunately for me, I brought enough money along, as I paid for everything--everything she wanted. What made matters worse: She said she was still hung up on some guy out West. Feeling the date was a total bomb, I politely left after paying for everything.
A few weeks later, she promised to make it up to me. Fortunately, we had inexpensive pizza--a thin crust black olive and mushroom pizza. I hate black olives! But, still I paid! I decided to definitely forget her. However, out of the blue, she decides to call me and ask me to run to the store for her. She needs wild cherry cough drops. Oh, did I mention she lived 30 miles away from me?
Somehow, there is a neon sign on my forehead--Marked "SUCKER"!
I believe the asker should always assume responsibility for paying unless it is otherwise agreed up in advance. Granted in this day and age and the economy being what it is, there are some factors to consider but to me it's just good manners. As a woman if I invited a man out to dinner, I would assume the bill was on me and in turn if a man asks me out then he should expect to pay. There is nothing wrong with splitting the bill as long as both parties agree and are AWARE in advance.
Totally agree if he expects her to pay half after being the one to initiate the date, he is unworthy of finishing the date. I would call a cab. I'd much rather pay a cab fee than continue on this date for sure.
But on the other hand, if you invited a friend to have lunch at a cafe with you, would you expect to pay for her lunch? Thought not.
I find this debate rather sad. I started dating in the seventies, when I would've been insulted if a man had expected to pay for my food. It implied a bargain - he pays for everything, until I decide he's paid enough to be allowed access to my body. Isn't that prostitution?
Old fashioned may be the issue here - it is not about what you are, it is about what is going on in the social sense.
As I said above, Too many people still view 'woman' as either (and only) virgin or whore and not simply as people who deserve equal respect. When a gallant Mr 'takes' you out and pays for you - he is demonstrating male superiority, subconcious or conciously. When women object, they are demonstrating their resistance to male domination. This is not an answer, just an observation about why this is even an issue in the first place.
I agree, If the woman asks the man she should be expected to pay the bill. I am wondering how many women ask a guy out on a date in this present time? Being old fashioned, I guess I have never heard of one of my female friends or family members asking a man out on a date. I am not implying that this is not acceptable, I was just curious if this has become a common thing to do?
Hi Sab Oh, thanks for the reply. You stated, "When I was single" I am just curious did you marry someone who asked you out first, or did you marry someone you asked out first? You do not have to answer that one, I was just curious.
Hi camlo, Thank you for your reply. Hmm, I find this very interesting. The thought never crossed my mind to ask a man out on a date before. I always figured that if he was interested in me that he would ask me out. I somehow now feel like I lived in prehistoric times like the dinosaurs or something.
me too. just talk to a guy and laugh at a stupid joke and you'll get him to ask. if he doesn't ask, he's not in to you. men do not get convinced, they do however make do. I do believe men need to ask, pay, make a move.
Definitely the asker pays for the date. If it is a first date, that is absolute. Same for the 2nd date, and possibly 3rd. If the askee wants to initiate the third (or fourth) to let him know she's interested but doesn't want him paying for everything, she could offer to cook him dinner or take him somewhere she already has tickets for.
IMHO you don't start splitting the bill until you are an established couple.
And, if SHE offers to pay her half BECAUSE she has NO romantic feelings towards him, then he may consider one way or the other. I am a female....My german "daughter" was posed with this not too long ago....should she or should she not pay for dinner on this "date" whom she considered to be "like a little brother". We explained that he probably didn't see it like a "friendship" type of deal and she might consider offering up her half. My spouse suggested her offering not more than twice so he did not get offended BUT to ask nonetheless.
The one who invites another should always at least offer to pay. I have even paid for some of my friends when I expressly invited them out for golf if I had invited them to a more expensive course than we normally play. It is a matter of simple etiquette.
I am posting this at the risk of being branded an old-fashioned sexist pig - or worse!
Irrespective, I was raised in a culture and by a family to believe that when a man and a woman go out on a date, the man always pays - full stop. That was a foregone, non-negotiable conclusion. I am not trying to be in any way controversial, or stir up any form of hornets' nest. I am simply stating a fact, in the way I was brought up to appreciate it and believe it...
So, given my levels of success in romantic circles, it's really cold under this railway bridge tonight for us bankrupts. When's that Salvation Army soup kitchen round again...
In my Opinion whomever asks for the date should pay the bill, be it the man or woman. If I call someone for coffee, lunch, dinner or movie, I always insist on Paying. But so far most of my Old fashioned male friends have not allowed me to really pay except once when I was so angry that I put the money on the table and stormed out.
thank goodness for hubpages forum, being married for 11 years, I though that my single friend was joking with me when she was asked out on a date and the guy asked her to split the bill. I told her to ditch him, it's not the money it's the respect for her, and being a man. How do you dingle people do it out there. For sure if that was me I would have just gotten up and left.....lol
In my first year in China my Chinese girlfriend insisted on paying every other time out - real equality is so simple to operate.
It only finished when she took me to an expensive restauarant with candles, violinist etc, and offered me a house, a BMW 735, never work again and go on holiday with her twice a year, only strings were that we had to get married Lovely as she is, and great as the offer was, I am not suited to being a house pet.
When a woman has sex with a man and err bears his offspring, the cost on her biological resources and lifestyle is huge.The risk of going out with a man is that she might for the rest of her life provide for two and give most of her calcium deposits to his genetic line. He has no biological tie other than a decision to stay and support to the lifeform he is creating. So he pays for the date.
when go out on a date I would make sure I have money to pay , and will pay the bill...
However what I find Interesting from the posts is that -- The Maximum That a girl is offering to pay is her Half--- If i ask you on a date, the bill comes it will be nice if the girl offers to pay the whole bill or not offer at all.
If they offer to pay only their Half I would let them. I would actually test them and even make her pay for the whole thing just for the heck of it.
whoever asks pays unless he cant afford it in that case everyone helps. the main thing is the company and having a good time lets not make it about the money
I think whoever asks the other person out should expect to pay the bill. If the man asks, then he's committing to paying, but if the woman asks him out then she has to expect to pay. I think the only way it should be different is if it was agreed ahead of time that each person would pay their own.
To be completely honest, i think that dating should be about much more than money. If you care about who pays - you show that money means respect for you, and... in ideal conditions, respect cannot be bought.
Who said a date has to have a tab? Who said that dating means spending money of any party involved?
No offence to anyone, i don't have anything against men paying if they want to, and it might even actually be proper in some way. I'm asking you to think wider, though. Not everyone even has money to spend, does that make dating(which leads to love) an expense? Well, if it is, if you really care about who pays, maybe you should reconsider the definition of love, at least what it means to you.
To me, a perfect love(true love) is a state in which two people can have a relationship outside the boundaries of society(only between each other, though). Just my opinion, but... maybe love should have rules, i just... will never respect rules for loving someone.
A Chinese 'date' insisted on paying the second time out - so I asked her the question, she said "I do not want to be seen as being paid for by you, or paying for you." But then - they have an extremely long and relatively uninterrupted 'cultural' history - and they have not been divided by aggressive feminism to create additional complexity.
I do think cultural differences play a big part in this discussion.
In Australia, a very strong part of our culture is the concept of the "shout". If I'm at the pub and a friend buys a drink for me, I'm under an obligation to buy one for her in return. If we leave the pub before I've had the chance to do that, the obligation remains - I have to "shout" her the next time we meet.
The same applies for any social occasion - coffee, lunch, whatever. Similarly, if I invite you to a dinner party, you're expected to bring a bottle of wine (or similarly substantial contribution) to the evening.
Anyone who makes a habit of not honouring their "shout" soon runs out of friends!
I guess that's why I have a problem with the concept of the man paying. In my culture, if someone pays for my food or drink in a social setting, I have an obligation to repay the favour. And if I'm not going to repay my date in money...
I think the 'shout' is pretty much the norm in the UK now. The confusion over this is down to the historical over-domination by males, then the reaction of feminism where the unworkeable idea of equality clashes with the reality of male female relationships. Too many people still view 'woman' as virgin or whore and not simply as people who deserve equal respect.
If he asks her out, he should certainly expect to pay the bill. He can always hope that she might want to pay for her half, but, he should be a gentleman and pay the whole thing.
I once went on a "date" with someone, and, He suggested that I pick the restaurant, but, then didn't like any of my choices. he then suggested that we go to this place that he knew, and we went there and had a nice dinner.
Well, when it comes to paying the dinner bill, he whips out this free meal coupon. And, then expects me to pay for my own, which was $14.95. And, he wanted me to leave the tip. I saw right through that immediately. He intended to go there all along, just so he could use his stupid free meal card. (It was a buy one get one free.) And, he invited me, so he could use it.
I said...oh no buddy. You're paying half. Because not only did we eat at his restaurant of choice. I was also the one who drove us there. He bitched up a storm, and I never went on a dinner date with him again. Wouldn't even waste my time.
I think there's a lot of truth in this statement in regard to feeling equal to a man. I think it's kind of strange to equate feeling equal on a date to money. I expect a man to treat me like a woman on a date. a feeling of equality doesn't = being treated the same or acting the same.
Equality means being treated with respect. I would expect a man to respect me the same as I would respect the man. I know some women who end up acting like a man just to prove their ability to show their success. That to me is when feminism has lost the 'femininity.'
and yes, in this culture also, there is respect for the partner by inviting someone over for dinner or bringing a bottle of wine to a dinner date, paying for the late night coffee after dinner and a movie.. etc. I simply see it as respect. In long term relationships, I have paid for dinner occasionally, but in most cases, the man preferred taking care of the bill.
I agree with your comment. I am clueless on how anyone could consider me less equal to a man, if a man invites me to a dinner or an event and I expect him to pay for the dinner or event. It would appear odd to me to consider that I would have to check my wallet or bank account to determine if I could accept a date offer from someone I have never met before.
Example: Man asks, "Would you like to have dinner with me on Saturday night?" Me, "um, let me check my wallet and bank account and I will get back to you with the answer"
Or, me checking my wallet first and then replying, "Sure, I think I can cover the expense if we go somewhere I can afford" ? This scenario just seems strange to me, but perhaps I am just old fashioned and set in my ways.
When a man gives up his money for a woman (paying for the date), he is interested in her romantically. Otherwise, he's not. Sometimes, guys will do a little test and ask you to pay half just to get a feel for your character. At bill time, this is not the time to do it. If he wants to get to know her better before parting with his money, he should ask if she would like to meet him somewhere for dinner. This is her clue that it is not a date and she shouldn't expect him to pay. Most of the older generation males will pay for everyone regardless, even in a group.
It also works both ways. If you go out with someone just to get a free dinner, you are leading him on. If you go out with someone just to get to know him better and really don't like him after a while, pay your own way. That is his clue that you're not interested. Don't let the guy pay for your dinner, than when he says can I see you again you either say no, or you say yes and just never answer his calls. That's childish and trashy.
So in your response, If you find that you would probably not wish to continue a relationship with this man, that you should get out your wallet and pay for the dinner? Am, I understanding this correctly? So a woman can accept a date offer, but if she finds he may be a jerk or something, than she should be prepared with money to pay her own bill instead of just saying no, if he asks her out again?
When has it become unpopular to just say no thank you? Would it be just assuming that if I did not have a great time, that he probably did not either, and would not ask me out again?
Wow, I am really glad that I am not in the dating scene right now, it seems very confusing with a lot of rules.
No, you're still right. The best scenerio is to be honest. Don't tell the girl you'll call her just so you don't have to fell bad about not asking her out again. And the woman should just say no thank you. But I am always prepared to pay my own way just in case. It's only really happened twice that I can remember. And nowadays, unless I know someone really well, I always take my own car.
counturepopcafe, I agree with you on this, now is not the time to test, and it's not about the money. If a man invites a woman out to dinner and then does not pay the bill, than a woman should run and this is why. do you want to marry a man like this. What when a woman has kids, is going to not pay the bill....It says alot about a man, and it is not about money it is about being able to give and wanting to be the man and take the woman out. Believe me if the woman really liked the guy she has already spent so much on a new outfit and time with hair and makeup...lol
Whoever invites, pays. Simple. If the guy invited me and paid for me, then if I liked him I would invite him back and pay. If I didn't like him at all I would decline. If I accepted but then decided I didn't want to see him again, he loses the price of a meal. And it should work both ways genderwise. I hate going dutch, even with my girlfriends. And people will notice if you get the habit of being a mooch (either gender) or always grabbing the cheque and paying for the whole table just to show what a "man" you are (again really either gender) and they don't appreciate it. Most people don't like to be taken for a free meal over and over without some reciprocation and likewise most people don't like to be deprived of the chance to be generous some times. Unless the perfect mooch finds the perfect overly generous martyr who doesn't feel right unless they pay for everything.
Yes, the inviter should pay the bill. However, I have had the big surprise of being invited, and even a statment made that they "might treat." Then as the check arrived, the other person almost made a scene about me paying half, stating it was a "friend date, not a real date." I learned my lesson. If it ever happens again, I would simply stand up and walk out, and if necessary, call cab or take a bus. The "friend" has called several times, but I have never respond back, particularly after I learned that person has a habit of using people.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Some men simply feel it's the right thing to do if they have invited a woman to dinner. If he's romantically interested, he'll most likely ask her out again. Paying the bill doesn't guarantee romantic interest.
If the woman invites the man to dinner, I think it's highly presumptuous that she would expect him to pay. Daniel, if a woman said, 'might treat', you know she has no intention of paying. that's a highly unclassy thing to say to someone.
In my opinion, gender should not be what determines who pays what. I don't like to send that message by agreeing to it. On a date, everything (pleasure or boredom) should be split, including the bill. Why not? That way, if that person is not a good match, or if you decided to move in with your date the next day, nobody owes anybody anything. Much better deal.
If a man asks a woman out on a date, he MUST pay the bill.
If she offers to spit the bill, he SHOULD refuse. In fact, i think it's an insult to the man to offer to split the bill with him.
She should, after a number of dates paid for by the man (if he IS a man), take him out to a nice place, and then insist she is paying fully this time. Period. However, a man MUST insist he wants to split the bill with her.
Yes I agree that if a man asks a woman out on a date the first few dates he should pay the bill but after that, she should either make him dinner or offer to take him out, I think that is the right thing to do.
I'd be so offended I'd just get up and leave (and if I don't, I would never go anywhere with that person again) if I don't get to pay for my own food, regardless of gender issues. What about when a woman invites a man, should she pay?
I think a man should always offer to pay the bill on a date but there are other things to consider. If you allow him to pay the bill he's only buying dinner and his shouldn't expect his date to put out! He's buying dinner, not sex. They are two very different things! Just because he offers to pick up the tab doesn't mean you have to let him, you can pay the bill if you feel more comfortable. I like a date to pick up the bill but will offer to buy the drinks later if I want to continue the date.
It all depends on who's idea it is...If the woman says "Hey lets do dinner and a movie!" Why shouldn't she want to pay? People think men should always pay. Not true. It will not hurt for the woman to pull out her wallet every once in a while too. But, thats just me. I am a pretty independent person. My boyfriend offers all the time and sometimes I want to be the one paying. It's only fair because he pays "way" more than I do. It's just to say "thank you and I love you"
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