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It seems like people who do not believe in the Word of God are so adament about posting negative comments on the forum topics about God. They get so angry about it. Why the heck do they care???
Because ignorance towards christian delusion could cost in terms money, time, mental unstability, superstitions,stagnated development in longer run.
I believe in God. But the Christians don't believe in the word as you say they do. They think they do, but they try to teach everyone their twisted interpretation.
Deborah, That is sadly true.
It's why Christians are given a bad name. There are far too many hypocrites in this world.
i don't see the anger you've stated that athiest have but rather the anger christians have towards athiests on here. one reason i personally am so adament about my way of thinking is that throughout my life religion has been thrown in my face without any proof that god is even real . i've lost girlfriends because their parents hated me once the found out i'm an athiest and it is nice to be able to have a way of showing how i feel without worrying about retribution . if you look at the behavior of many christians and then listen to them preach about the glory of god, you'll see the irony in their beliefs.
I never called out athiests - only people who do not believe in Jesus.
And I understand that you've been treated very wrongly by hypocritic christians and I can't express how wrong that is.
But this question arose from looking at topics of the Christian beliefs and finding so many non believers bashing christianity out of nowhere when the could have stayed away from the topic altogether, ya know?
If you stopped building churches and advertising on the TV and knocking on people's doors and leaving leaflets under car windshields and starting threads that - on the surface are asking questions - but really are to spread your brand of hate mongering and defend your right to share your beliefs with all and sundry - maybe you wouldn't get "bashed".
Besides...everyone enjoy's a good "bashing fest" .
Don't they Mr. Knowles?
Thing is don't take online statements personally, people rarely change a belief because of something they read online...although I suppose it could happen.
Mark, I have never done any of those things. I do not even attend church because of its twisted views. Again, you are accusing.
And you misunderstood me - I meant if someone who does not share my beliefs asked me about mine, I would tell them. I do not ask questions.
Oh - so you are quite comfortable lumping "unbelievers" as a group, but then distance yourself from all the other millions of Christians?
I am quite capable of seeing what you have done. You have started two threads, and they have both devolved into you arguing your right to share your beliefs, and when I explain in a reasonable , rational way as to why unbelievers "bash" Christians - you argue wih me and tell me I am accusing.
If you want to turn it into "ohmygoodnessrae" instead of "Christians" - you should be more clear, because you asked about "Christians" and got a straight answer.
In which case I suggest you rename the thread "Why are unbelievers so obsessed with telling ohmygoodnessrae she is wrong?"
And I will happily tell you why your beliefs are nonsense.
No, you simply stated that I personally went around doing those things.
Yeah, mark but what about "your" insulting tv shows about christians where people like Bill Maher insult them: we have a right : it's called Freedom or would you prefer Communism??
Mark, Hate. Don't judge or else you shall be judged by the same means.
Aww - sorry you are unable to read. I guess you already know wot it is wot is right innit? I was answering the Kwestion, "Why are unbelievers so obsessed with telling Christians they're wrong?"
Trust me - in the flesh - you would not be so presumptuous as to tell me what to do. Dear me. No morals. None, Sad.
Hello Mr. Knowles...how are you today -are you well?
No answer huh...not speaking to me? How about this.
You know you should really lighten up on that I read the bible so I know all about how phony it all is.
You read the bible but maybe you're reading the wrong one.
Kick ass - thanks for asking. Like the new face in your avatar. Much more feminine. Is that you?
IWait a second -I'm not falling for that...tell me how much you despise me now.
I would like to add to what was said about the golden rule. "The golden rule" only works in fairyland!
Some people would like the most outrageous things done to them I'm sure!
the "as you would have then do unto you" part takes on a broad scope!
that is the purpose behind blogs though. it's called debating and it is the right thing to do. why does it bother christians when non believers voice their opinion.wherever you go, religion is there and it's quite bothersome but when we stand up and say something on a blog we are wrong. don't you think that waking up to banging church bells bother non believers or watching wars happen in the name of religion bothers non believers. ya know
Nightwork4, what do you believe instead of Christianity? If you believe in something, than how do you figure your belief will fair among the masses over a long duration of time? Please consider your and institutional states disposition. Will they hold together when tried by fire over a long duration of time. If you don't, than you are in your personal box, unaware of everything supporting it is contingent and is in continual flux. Given our natural state, Christianity will beat the hell out of any nonbeliever's belief system. I bet my life...
I don't think nonbelievers are obsessed about anything. It is the believers who are obsessed about telling us how to live according to their scriptures. Nonbelievers understand that the obsession of the believers has led to things like witch burnings, the Crusades and the Inquisition, to name a few. If you believe these are positive aspects of your religion, then you would have every right to criticize nonbelievers.
You do have a point, Beelzedad. Those were entirely wrong things to do.
But this question was merely posed to those nonbelievers who criticize believers.
Hmmm - no believers spreading the word = no non believers criticizing believers.
Keep you irrational beliefs to yourselves and the issue will simply vanish.
Like a miracle.
This is well put. A lot of the time when nonbelievers tell someone they are wrong, it is because the believers are forcing their view onto them. Many times they will tell the nonbelievers they are wrong so they will simply retaliate.
This is exactly what they need to do if they want to eliminate this issue.
It really goes BOTH ways to be honest
(like a bisexual hahaha
Looking at the wrong Christians; look at Jesus, the life of the scriptures. Every government in the world would like to have people believe that they are doing the will of God. 99% of the time, God, Jesus, and the Holy doesn't.
i can only answer this question from the perspective of someone whose childhood was robbed from them by the church and who was constantly chastized by teachers, parents and the clergy for asking questions about biblical events and God's and Jesus' motivations, etc., and as someone whose faith and spirituality were called into question just for being inquisitive, which was wholly unfair, as i was devout and circumspect in my behavior and a diligent scholar of the bible and pious besides. then one day you grow up and realize you can walk away, so you do, and the questions still burn in your breast and you never get an answer from any Christian, but you press on hoping one day one of them will do the honorable thing and actually address biblical inconsistencies and explain why God can either allow horrible things to happen to innocents or even himself do horrible things to people as recorded in the scripture.
that sort of thing doesn't leave you, it will always be a part of you, along with all the other things in this world that make up who you are. why NOT speak your mind about it? why NOT continue to seek answers? you make it sound as if only believers have a right to analyze or discuss religion and spirituality.
when my son was little, his paternal grandmother said many times we 'needed to get him some religious training' or he would grow up badly, which is funny considering he is moral, honorable, compassionate and keenly analytic and open-minded, whereas those relatives who got 'religious training' are, well, jerkfaces.
I know exactly what you mean. I also grew up in a religious home, went to church every Sunday and so on. Never fitted in anywhere in our society, which is very conservative. For many years I was mad at God about a lot of things.
But a year or two ago I reached a stage where I felt very empty. I started to read a book about heaven, which was given to my husband, and although I read it with an open mind, there was still some stuff in the book which I wasn't too sure about. But one feeling I started to experience was a feeling to start building a closer relationship with God - an adamant feeling I might add. So I started reading my Bible again and talk to God - an allocated time when I am alone at home. I would read and pray from my hart and left it at that. Slowly but surely I found my opinions about certain things started to change. I would find myself thinking differently about stuff, suddenly understanding stuff that I did not before.
I still don't understand a lot of stuff and I have a feeling we never going to understand God fully until one day when he comes back. But Christianity is based on believe. So I decided to just believe.
What I have realized, is that the bad things is not God's doing but the devil, for he is always on the prowl. Sometimes God let him have his way, to teach us stuff and because we can be so stubborn sometimes, something really bad has to happen to us to catch a wake-up.
We must also realize that the bad things that happen were also created by our own hands. We cannot expect God to humor us to do what we want and then He must pick up the pieces.
God expects just the best from us and fortunately for us He send Jesus, because just to take the Israelites as an example, they were like naughty children, those years they were moving around in the desert, a consequence for not living up to God expectations. These days we have it a lot easier, with Jesus dying on the cross and all, but; we still need to make the right choices and unfortunately there are a lot of people making the wrong choices and the consequences of that is that a lot of innocent people suffer because of that . You must realize there is a war going on between good and evil every minute of every day and unfortunately every war has its casualties.
you know your just going to be told that your bad experiences are not their fault, right?
I believe it has less to do with why they care and more to do with giving what they have been getting. A lot of self-proclaimed Christians are insistant on telling non-believers that THEY are wrong for not believing. I personally believe in God, but not church and the church-goers can't wrap their minds around that. It gets tiring to be preached at by people you know are being hypocritical. I tend to avoid such situations and let the person just believe what they want, they're going to anyway but I can see why others have decided to simply turn the tables.
I'm glad you believe in God, but that is not enough. You have to act on that belief in order for your belief tomean anything. How does your belief in God shape and change you and influence how you interract with the world? I challenge you to do more than just "believe in God."
But the bible says that you should pray in your closet. does it not?
she does not have to make a show of her belief for her faith to be real.
No, it says don't advertise your good works to promote yourself.
It does say "Don't hide your light under a bushel" or something, (not a bible expert) meaning let your kindness and prayer show to let other men understand God.
Christians, true ones, let their light shine before men
1) they get joy out of helping
2) God asked they show His glory and goodness to men
3) They want to help and love their fellow man.
BUT, true Christians --
politely encourage or show by example.....................
People who comment about god do not go out of their way to oppose the views of Christian beliefs, they only comment on it when it is presented to them. A example of that would be your question.
Yet some Christian groups do go out of their way to spread the word of god where it may not be wanted. Like going to countries where a different religeon is practiced, and trying to convert the people there.
The thing that always rattles me the most are those group[s that go out of their way to use the word of God to spread hate and fear. How many non believers go to Gay pride marches and start preaching fire and brimstone? Or, protest abortion clinics, while they seem to care less about all the other horrible things going on in this world.
Wars have been fought over the word of Gods. All that needless suffering and dying for what? Somebody wrote a book, and now we have to hit the world over the head with it? And we aren't even 100 percent sure that it is correctly translated? Only going by what the powers that be tell us it means?
I say, the less preaching the better. I don't care to hear about it, yet it is in your face everywhere and every day more and more. Now not only do we have to hear about the world of the christian god, now, we get to hear about Islam, and all the other want to be noticed religions.
If there is a god, let me think about him on my own terms. Don't tell me what the church believes, because a lot of what they tell you is twisted to their advantage. Otherwise there would be only one christian religion, yet, there seem to be several different versions around, and even a few new ones trying to get in on the religion band wagon, which they use to get millions in donations.
So you tell me. What are the non believers doing these days?
Probably for the same reason that Christians want to tell everyone they're right.
Don't get me wrong...I'm a Christian, so that's not a jab at Christians.
It's "human nature" to want to be Right. And we want everyone to know we are right...we tie it into our self-esteem and sense of self-worth. We're criticized for being wrong too, so we try to make up for it by pushing how we are "right" on others. When we let go of our "need" to be right we ironically can share our beliefs in a non-confrontational way that can allow the other person to actually listen because they aren't put on the defense.
There are of course other reasons for people to behave that way...it's a complex issue. But that seems to be one of them.
They don't know any better.
But maybe instead of shoving it down their throats, we should rather show them by the way we live our lives and by not being judgmental towards them - rather treat them with love, which should keep us Christains on our toes to not do wrong things,( because it would defy the whole point), we might actually change their perspective.
Maybe we should ask them if they don't feel the loooooooooove!! If they say no, then I would tell them that They're missing out". Hopefully it will tickle their inquisitiveness(?) and they might actually try and find out, out of free will. Haven't tried it yet, so don't know if it will work. Only thought of it now.
My guess is that non believers, many of them, feel threatened by believers, or that their "beliefs" which are like a religion in itself (not believing or atheism or putting your belief in government instead of God) they feel threatened and feel the NEED to prove something! ;-)
How do you like them apples ;-)
If Christians were more like Jesus there wouldn't be much problem but the fact is, they have taken to the OT type of god which pretty much hates everything but themselves and everyone is wrong.
They are taking their beliefs to a whole new level and they are bridging the gap between politics and religion and forcing their beliefs on all of America and are destroying it.
They don't care about following the laws of the land and are not quite about their beliefs saying things like "Their god is the law", and everyone else has to suffer for them.
They or possibly you (don't know you at all) are wrong to believe that in a land where all people are created equal, they have superiority, that their religions has more authority then the law of the land.
They are trying to take away people rights, they are calling people god awful names, they are being absolutely disagreeable because they think they are right.
So when people are saying stfu you are wrong and you need to stop before you destroy the whole country, they so ignorantly reply that god is doing it because the morals of this country are bad and everyone who disbelieves their god should die and it is everyone elses fault.
Yet, I and everyone else who can see what is actually going on, knows that 'you, them, they, Christians, religious, extremiest, conspiracy theorist, republicans, conservatives... are doing everything they can to tell out right lies that are being proven over and over again.
They are using god in their message as their means for popularity and asking for money and also using god as their reason to lie and fabricate the truths and in time (very soon) you will see that FOX news had every intention of fabricating news.
There is proof out there and I know that there is and even though (from the things I have read) they call their loyal followers stupid and can feed you whatever they want to and you will believe it just because they are loyal and have told you everyone else is lying, you will believe it.
And in these conversations, their core is their belief in god and their language is much more offense to others who also believe in same god.
Yes, people dislike your god and do troll you and them because they continue to tell lies. Forget the bible, we see it everyday now and they have absolutely no respect for anyone or thing but themselves and they do not care about people, they care about their god and themselves.
they are meddlesome...and like I hear religion is something people argue about like politics
they could stay in thier topics and us ours, but not
I pray for us all that we remain peaceful and that all non believers go to Heaven!
Keep praying for them. they hate prayer and may go away!
Well, if someone was telling your kids that if they ate dog poop they would grow big and strong, you would question the science and want some validating evidence to support it wouldn't you?
Just doesn't have the ring of truth to it does it?
So why should I not mention that to just hand your brain over to an invisible sky fairy that has never answered a single prayer or offered one single piece of evidence for it's psychotic story in thousands of years is very silly.
Same sort of thing really!
You still haven't answered the question.
I asked why you hunt down these topics just to negate them.
You seem so passionate about following believers around and telling them their beliefs are wrong.
I don't see you following any belief at all.
Being obsessive about telling people they are wrong is kind of ridiculous.
No, spreading ridiculous fantasy with every imaginable tired old thread name and calling it "the truth" is obsessive!
I haven't seen one thread name called "The Truth" that you've posted on, my friend.
Just merely topics that Christians believe the same way about and would like to discuss with other christians.
Why would you post on one of those?
THAT is obsessive.
Now that I went back to the beginning I can see your point. And it's a very good point. My only argument is with the people that put words into Gods mouth. I have no doubt there is a God.
Ernest and I are very different in our thinking on this subject. God is real to me. And anything he ever said to me was not out of the mouths of men, or voices in my head. It was the Golden Rule he stamp on my heart and yours. You know the truth regardless of what you read and what you want to believe.
Reciting verses became meaningless to me when I reached the age of seventeen. I woke up one morning and went to my front door. When I opened it, I saw it was a beautiful summer morning. It hit me like a ton of bricks, that one day my life would end I wouldn't see another morning like that. And all I could think about was how empty the words of my bedtime prayer had been.
"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake. I pray the lord my soul to take."
All the years I said that prayer; I never knew what death was. So I never recited another word from the bible. My words to God only come from my heart. And I don't have to explain the many inconsistancies of the Word of Man playing God.
Thank you for reading more into it and understanding what I meant. I appreciate that.
My experience was similar. I was bound to religion and rules and even began to hate God until the age of 16.
I hated him for giving me rules to follow when I seemed to get nothing out of it.
And then one day, He showed me his love. As you said - not the voices in my head type, but just that assurance that he was there to love and care for me - not bind me to rules.
Now I found a relationship with the one true God, and I rejected "religion". He is so much more than a debate or an interpretation of the scripture.
If my God could be put in a box and defined, I wouldn't want to serve Him.
glad I cleared that up. But, this afterlife thing doesn't make much sense to me. I think life is the gift god gave us. And I think people squander this life waiting for the next one. Why would God let u die in the first place if he didn't want you to stay dead?
Wow . . that's an entirely different subject, my friend.
I don't think we have enough time tonight to start discussing that one . . lol.
But I've heard a lot of people with that same belief.
I believe differently but eh, that's how it goes.
it was never god's intention for us to die......... death is an enemy.... we need to live for now of course, but i read from your previous posting, you do not read the bible. The bible is like a manual for living..... you do not have to be a part of a religion to read it.
Aparently it was gods intention for us to die. He only left 8 behind once. Got p*ssed off and murdered the rest of em!
true, i read the bible daily, and i am not a follower
The afterlife is the whole point of it. People think this life is important but its not. All of christianity is denying the world and the stuff thats in it. Life, real life, starts and begins after this one is over! and it lasts so much longer than this life. This life is a struggle, uncertain, demanding, sinful; the next life is nothing like this.
We get a different kind of body and we live on a new earth! As it was in the garden it will be again, only better. There will be no tree of knowledge in this new earth because we have already made our choice to be with god. Adam didn't have a choice, there was god and there was adam so god gave adam a choice and adam chose wrong.
Now we have to die thus this life has become a learning process and a choosing process. It wasn't supposed to be but because adam did what adam did, i and you were born. There was no "be fruitful and multiply in the garden" that command came after they were expelled and because adam was expelled, we were born.
deep huh. This life is a gift indeed but its less of a gift without god in it.
So than, ohmygoodnessrae, since you understand that God is about love and that real Chritianity has nothing to do with religion, why do you shun church. It is though the church that God has chosen to show the world about God's love through Christ. True, many people get it muddled badly by trying to pull religion back in to church, but this does not mean that church is itself hopeless. I encourage you to find a church fellowship that doesn't want to have anything to do with the religion that hurt you so as a young person. There are many loving and supportive Christian communities out there who want to love God and love each other the way the Bible teaches.
Why are Christians so obsessed with telling everyone else -- including not just nonbelievers but other "brands" of Christians -- that THEY are wrong?
You don't see us going to other forum posts about different religions - spending so much time seeking it out just to tell them they're stupid.
And if you do see that, it's also wrong.
I just don't understand why an unbeliever would spend so much time scouring the forum for a Christian discussion and then negate them as much as possible.
If they can't stand the belief, why flock to it and get involved in the discussion???
I go to the forums and post on a topic that is similar to what I belive for the mere purpose of having a nice conversation on common ground.
I go where I like, write my articles and enjoy myself. My habits are none of your business, and what you think of me is none of my business!
The topic category if you care to read it is Religion and Philosophy. I enjoy both subjects.
Of course it isn't my business.
I never said it was or asked questions about it.
I mean seriously.
I think I actually know why:
There are so many people out there who call themselves "Christians" and then they completely bash nonbelievers and tell them they are stupid and then turn around and act like complete hypocrites.
They spread a lot of hate and hurt.
earnesthub, if that is what your problem is and the reason you go through all the trouble on these threads, then let me be one to apologize.
Christians should not do that - you are entitled to whatever you want to believe and we are not going to change your mind. I apologize for every hypocrite who has demeaned or hurt you through discussions of God and religion.
I only wanted an answer to a simple question.
one of the reasons is that everyday religion is forced on us in one shape or form . whether it be church bells waking you up on sunday morning, terror attacks in the name of religion, etc. i guess it's ok for religion to stand up for itself but us evil athiests should lie down and keep quiet.
That isn't what I was saying at all, nightwork.
I have no problem with you debating your side of it - you are entitled to what you believe.
I was merely asking this question to those to hunt down Christian topics only to name call and rudely negate their beliefs. You know?
there is no need for people to name call i agree. but i answered the question you asked precisely how you asked it. we now have a way of saying what we have to say. the anger i think is from never being able to voice our opinions but having religious opinions thrown at us in our day to day lifes. we care because we feel that people need to quit trying to let "god" rule their lives and that religion causes too many riffs in society.
Yes but if you don't agree with religion forums just stay away, wouldn't that be better that scrutinizing someone elses beliefs. Religion forums are meant for religious topics. Meaning a topic that you do not subscibe to so why bother them.
My point exactly, Diane Inside!!!
THANK YOU for understanding!
your welcome, I've been asking this same question for awhile now.
It reminds me of a jealous ex-girlfriend looking for a fight with every new girl her old boyfriend flirts with . . lol
I see it in my head . . . it's a very entertaining thought. lol
You say people are obsessed in the title fer gawds sake!!!!!!!!
Who is doing the jealous girlfriend bit again?
The world is a mirror grasshopper, and you are not seeing your reflection at all well!
You make absolutely no sense, my friend.
It is you who cannot see clearly.
You start a thread with a title as provocative as this and don't see your own complicity. .... right.....
It is not a provocative thread at all.
I just wanted to know what it was that made non believers so hateful.
that is a very loaded statement. On the ohter hand, it is the christians who blatenly show their distaste for abortions, and homosexuals, and other "sins" making these people feel bad about their choices...i kinda think thats pretty hateful
Please let me say, if I may, that before Earth the devil (Lucifer and God had a fight) and the devil has ALWAYS attacked God and God's children................bible says: rejoice if you are attacked for it means you are doing my will (something to that affect, not a bible scholar)
Speaking the truth about abortion --the truth is it's murder is not hateful.
It's protecting the unborn BUT
you wouldn't know that BECAUSE your mind isn't open to the truth, right?!!
It's the same no matter where you go or what side of the debate you're on. A lot of people love the clash, so they get their jabs in and enjoy the conflict. In the end, nothing is learned, no understanding accomplished; it's all just a shouting match. But for some people, that's fun.
I don't get involved because I can't stand the posturing.
I don't understand why they seek out that clash when people just want to have a discussion.
I mean, if you go to a Religion and Beliefs topic, that is exactly what you'll find, right?
Why go there just to tell those people they are wrong?
It is so rude
I thought people could have non religious beliefs. Is that against "the word?"
Of course you're entitled to your own belief, my friend.
But why would you go and bash those with different beliefs??
Aren't they entitled, too???
ohmygoodnessrae, it is a loosing battle here, because he will still do it. He thinks he is right and thats all that matters, If people don't like it to bad, he like conflict.
It would better to just ignore him.
no people creates conflict in the name of religion
No religion creates it, because it's false to begin with, which is the reason for the conflict in the first place.
okay you believe what you want. (pat on head)
Are you now baiting? How nice of you. Go away!
Go away? In a religous forum, wouldn't it make more sense for you to GO AWAY!
Hang around or leave, I don't particular care, but quit with the condescending attitude.
I Will when you do the same. The minute you asked a question to see how someone interprets something then say : Lets see what you think you know.
That is condescending.
The pat says it all. Say what you will ..................
I know, Diane.
But I like talking about it.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just like talking about my God.
And this is my topic, so it isn't wrong to do it here.
have we finished talking about girls fighting over guys?
Because if so, I'm going to sleep
I didn't ask for anything, Diane.
You don't have to be so demeaning to everyone, you know.
Sorry, not trying to be demeaning, Like I said you asked for it. Meaning you will see what I'm talking about. Once you talk to them awhile. Thus the Good Luck part.
And if that's the way you feel, sorry guess we don't see things the same way, my mistake.
I meant the parts like *pat on head, too.
That isn't nice
No, cagsil is right about religion. Which is why I as a Christian (that is, a follower of Christ) does not want anything to do with "religion". Religion is a human attempt to reach God - a very devisive topic - but faith in God through Jesus Christ is a relationship with God our Creator. This is God's idea and much different from religion.
If that were true, anything false would create conflict---
but how would we know which was false and which was not?!
Apparently everyone has their own opinion
(take an accident and 5 witnesses tell 5 different stories)
JUST QUIT FIGHTING......LOL UNLESS YOU JUST LOVE IT SO MUCH
(i mean why else would you!! hahahaha
And everything false does create conflict, because it's not truth.
Wisdom is truth.
You're correct, you could have 5 witnesses tell 5 different stories, and if each one of is missing truth, then it creates conflict until truth is revealed. And, as everyone knows, truth always shows itself.
How about YOU quit yelling?
Give me your "interpretation" of this piece of scripture...
"Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." Mark 7:6-8
Who is this scripture talking about?
Let's see what you think you know....
Cagsil, you aren't answering my question at all.
But I will indulge you for a moment if you promise to be reasonable about this and not immature. Let us discuss this like two reasonable human beings.
Isaiah was talking about the people who come as "wolves in sheep's clothing". The "Christians" who claim to know God but really are just religious fanatics who have no relationship with the living Father.
Their worship is false - they praise God just to seem like they're so much better than everyone else. They decide that their way is best and reject God's love and will for their life.
So, in short, this scripture is talking about people who CLAIM they love God, but are actually lying just to sound like they are such "holy" men.
Cagsil, I'm definitely sure you've met people like this.
People like the ones being referred to here are the exact reason why Christians have such a bad name.
Who specifically was the scripture talking about?
And, to let you know, Christianity was even born yet.
Pardon me, you are right. I hate calling it Christianity anyway.
I mean those who follow God. I am not sure what name we should give them, but we will just call them that. Those who claimed to be followers of God.
The specific people that this scripture speaks of were the Pharisees.
They were the priests of the temples dedicated to God. However, these priests were very corrupt and did not follow God at all. They cared only for themselves and their own gain.
Why do you ask, my friend?
Because, if I am going to try to have a "reasonable" discussion with you about it, I want to make sure you know what you're talking about.
Next question- If they were corrupted, then what "god" did they enslave millions of people to worship?
this line of questioning isn't to have any discussion it is to try to get her to say something that you can retaliate against, that is so wrong.
Ah I see. Good point. On with the discussion. lol
Well, Cagsil, if you do not serve God, then you are against him. Right?
These priests, being "wolves in sheep's clothing" enslaved people to serve a God that did not exist. They served greed, fear, and lust. Things of the world. They knew nothing of God.
The ones that truly served God knew to stay away from the priests' teachings.
If you serve a god, then you do not serve yourself. It negates self-responsibility.
Not serving a god doesn't necessarily mean one would be against it. One does not need to serve something that does not exist.
As I said above, no god.
How did one know that they served a non-existent god, before Jesus came to be?
Yes, exactly. If you do not serve God, you serve yourself and you reject him. You are against him. That's exactly what I just got finished saying. And it does not negate self-responsibility.
Just like if you serve a king. You are still responsible for your actions, your loyalty, and your trustworthiness in everything you do. Your focus, though, is to always try to serve him and please him.
And we are not debating the existance of God, let me remind you. We are debating this scripture. And with this scripture comes the assumption of His existance.
They knew of the existence of God because in the old testament, God manifested himself directly. He spoke directly to His people. But at that time it was only His chosen ones - the Jews. The Gentiles never accepted the contract to be God's people so they never heard him directly.
The first plan was to have God be Israel's king. But when they kept rejecting Him, God needed a way to redeem mankind. So Jesus came.
How do you NOT negate being self-responsible? You make no sense.
Including doing things to harm others, dishonesty and deceitful actions. You do so because you are loyal and have no choice. That my friend is irresponsibility.
The scripture you talk about comes from the bible. Exactly, an assumption. Thus, you cannot talk as if it's real, because you do not know.
The OT was about a non-existent god. It was a lie, just perpetuated to control people. You said it yourself.
But, my point is that you get that knowledge from the OT which is false. Not to be believed.
I just explained it to you. Perhaps re read what I wrote? I was quite thorough.
Wait wait wait - why would God force you to do deceitful actions? You assume that's what He does? No. He cares only for the good of mankind.
And Cagsil, this is where you are getting ridiculous. This will be my final reply because you are now crossing the line.
The debate was centered around that scripture. Not the existance of God. That was my only point. I do know for a fact it is real, but you seem to believe it isn't. Thus, I used the term "assumption" to avoid offense to you.
The OT served a real God. If you actually read more than that one single scripture, you would find God to be a real, living Being that the pharisees did not know. You are concentrating on the people in the scriptures who were much like you: ignorant of God. The pharisees used this ignorance to decieve and control people like you. People looking for ways to feel powerful and wise.
You have no evidence at all in saying that the Bible is false.
Actually, your response made no sense and I was trying to point that out to you.
I didn't make any assumption whatsoever. You said you would do whatever to serve him. End of story. That includes being deceitful.
What line? Rationale?
You cannot possibly know beyond all doubt, especially, if you use non-existent god scripture to support your position.
So you are saying all the people who lived before Jesus arrived served NO GOD, because according to you, the pharisees did not know, yet he(them) received their knowledge from the OT.
Ignorant of god? You're kidding right? The scripture I spoke of was Jesus talking about the pharisees, and the god he served.
Yes, I do, it's in the bible.
This reply just tells me you've listened to nothing of what I just said.
I am not going to repeat myself.
Believe what you will, Cagsil. I'm not going to run this into the ground.
I've said my piece. Whether you listen or not is your deal.
My reply is already posted. Read it again if you ever find you are willing to listen.
Why do you say the OT (or the NT for that matter) is false?
"They knew of the existence of God because in the old testament, God manifested himself directly. He spoke directly to His people. But at that time it was only His chosen ones - the Jews."
I don't think this statement is true because God never choose a certain religion or type of people, that was mans' doing. Cults have nothing to do with God. His choosen people are all of us.
I actually think the arrogance of choosing yourself closer to God than the rest of us; is exactly what Lucifer did. That didn't work out so well for him either.
Whoa, Elpaso I did NOT claim to be closer to God in any way.
I am not Jewish.
And he never created a religion at all. Or cults.
I would NEVER presume to be closer to God than the rest of the world. I am so very sorry if you took that statement as if I was claiming that!
In the Old Testament, Elpaso, God made a contract for the Jews to be his chosen people. He hadn't sent Jesus to redeem the Gentiles until the New Testament.
No no. I meant "YOURSELF" as people of all religions that think they are closer to God or more loved by God...It was not a statement directed at you.
Why do all of us bicker back and forth, ***sigh**** when all of us could get along? Why? Because it is only human nature to debate.
Ok at first, I read "bicker" completely wrong. I thought you were cussing me out! lol
Oh you know it's late when . . haha.
How funny! lololo I wouldn't cuss anyone out and yes it is getting late. I have to go to sleep to morning comes early and to quickly one must say.
People, it is so silly to ARGUE about different religious beliefs. They are unique to each one of us regardless of which religion we 'subscribe' to. Be true to your personal values and let others do as they will...
Now, discussing and debating religion is different. Debating religion isn't telling someone that they're wrong but rather challenging them to see if they can answer a question or concern.
ohmygoodnessrae, you have to realize that by titling your topic "Why are unbelievers so obsessed with telling Christians they're wrong?" you're inviting people to confront you. It is a loaded question dear
and incredulous that it is not obvious to the op!!!!!
Is that called lying for jesus?
I understand that it is loaded.
I wanted those people to come here and explain to me what it was.
I don't mind confrontation. I wanted this to be an opportunity to clear the air.
Happy to contradict yourself? Or didn't you notice the switch?
You wrote. "It is not a provocative thread at all.
I just wanted to know what it was that made non believers so hateful."
You also called non believers hateful. Not believing what you do is hateful is it?
Sir I haven't been hateful once.
If I have, please point it out so that I may apologize.
I did not believe this question to be provocative at all. But maybe I did not take in the true meaning of that word.
I do want to know why non believers post such hateful things, though, earnestshub. That is an honest question.
Here is another honest question. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Get a handle on what is in your subconscious before you write it would be my advice.
You will never get a covertly structured pre-empting title like this past any student of psychology or human nature.
""It is not a provocative thread at all.
I just wanted to know what it was that made non believers so hateful."
So you calling people hateful is different to someone challenging your beliefs?
The biggest question here is why can't you see that? Your own words in the title. Geeeeeeeeez!
You wanted confrontation. This is exactly how you get it.
So do I.
Why are you still beating your wife is a similar question.
Yes. A loaded question. Just like yours. Insulting and assumptive.
My question was not insulting at all.
Especially compared to that one.
earnesthub, I apologize if the title of my hub insulted you.
It was really only to gain insight - not to insult.
You could have just apologised without including the "if"
The thread title was offensive. No "if" about that!
So you refuse to accept the apology?
I really don't see anything offensive about the question, earnesthub. It was an honest question.
But for your sake, I will apologize. I do regret offending you - please believe that was not my intention.
Perhaps the reason you're offended by the title of her hub is because your are guilty of what she was asking about. The way you are berrating her sure seems to give evidence to the thread...
That is where people defend their belief. It's directly in the bible to tell you that it is false to begin with, because Jesus said the god in the OT was a false idol.
And you're right, this discussion is now done. Because, you'll do nothing but use your faith to defend a lie. Enjoy
Perhaps if you actually read the Bible insead of assuming you would understand that nowhere in the Bible does it say that the OT was a false idol.
Jesus did not say that the "god" of the OT was a false idol. He said that he was himself God in human form and that he was the fulfilment of the biblical law that God had established. Jesus did accuse the religious establishment of adding extra rules and idolatrous practices to the law that obscured what God intended.
What goes around comes around. Sorry if somebody said this already
That is true.
I was actually very horrified to see Christians doing this to others.
It's just rude - no matter who does it!
Don't you agree?
But apparently not rude when you do it! Read the title of your thread again!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did nothing of the sort.
I was talking about when nonbelievers post on a thread titled for Christian beliefs with the intention of being negative and hurtful.
This thread welcomed an explanation for that. It did not shove any belief down anyone's throat or offend anyone.
eye for eye my dear, eye for eye - as your babble teaches. All western civilization people are influenced by christianity, even if they are not believers.
I am not sure about what you're replying to with this post.
Though I dont' appreciate having my belief called "babble". That's exactly the kind of thing that prompted this topic.
I'm surprised they haven't made fun of you for believing in the sky fairy yet, wait for it's coming.
Which one? Tinker Bell? I do believe in her, she is quite sexy
ha, ha, funny, No I just mean that there are some here who call such names knowing it is condescending, and an insult, yet they still do it.
This name calling is particularly offensive, if you believe blasphemy is a sin.
I know if you are a non- believer you don't but it still offends those who do.
You prefer that non believers go by the standard image of a white-bearded grumpy old man in a robe that sits on a cloud and cooks sinners for eternal dinner?
No I prefer that you do not refer to him at all. Rather than make fun of. Thats all.
Of course asking for respect in this matter, in futile.
Ya don't give it ya don't get it. Respect is earned.
Patting someone's head? That doesn't gain respect, that is just plain condescending.
What goes around, comes around - as I already mentioned in this thread
Stop proselytizing and insulting atheists - and they will flock to you
I actually did not mean your belief, I meant the book your belief is based on. There is a difference
I don't hunt down Christian threads, but when I am on the main forum page I do sometimes see thread topics on which I want to argue my point.
While the Christian viewpoint is often that of being victimised, more often than not it is just people offering tehir own view point, which is ten taken as an insult.
I actually like a fair number of ardent Christians on these forums,however I will still post my atheist point of view if they post a religious question which I think validates an atheist viewpoint.
It is impossible to argue religion based on rational and logic because religion is in it's nature irrational. The arguments are baseless, and are designed to creat loops and paradoxes by using things such as omnipotence. For this reason I long ago gave up this argument, purely and simply because it rarely affects me.
However, I do think religon is a dangerous thing. For instance in Texas the voters have made a rather trivial mistake of voting in an education board who is entirely Christian. This has caused not only evolution to be taught much less in the classrooms, but it has also removed some of the founding fathers from the text books and lesson plans given to the children.
This has caused a huge uproar among the public, and prettymuch everyone I have spoken to about it either thinks it is ludicrous or infuriating. The overall consensus is that the people responsible for these changes are being voted out one by one as tehir election term comes up, and the new people are promising to return the original text books.
Unfortuantely this leaves a huge number of textbooks circulating through communities which simply miss out some of the most important people in American history, why? because they founded America as seperate from christianity, and all religion.
I'm just about to hit the sack now, but will answer your email when I get back from the immigration office tomorrow Rae!
A very valid point.
I don't really have anything to negate at all. haha.
It sounds like you legitimately debate without just telling people they are wrong. That's good.
I agree with you.
Well said, Oli. A good debate is calm and rational, and doesn't involve derogatory terms such as 'unbeliever' on one side and 'sky fairy' on the other. Neutral terms such as 'non-religious' and 'deity' keep the flames low.
A conclusion I've come to:
Everything is for usage but not the misuse.
Of course i agree that some belligerent posters might be obsessed and perhaps in need of a psychiatrist.
Ranting at people, disrupting, degrading, insulting, name calling obviously isn't helping at all. There is not any answer with that method. Venting may be a temporary solution but surely anyone who has ability and brains knows a band-aid solution when they see one.
I love having you here and i would love to hear what you have to say, if only you would say something worth hearing. Of all the posts yours make me laugh (because i can totally answer them) and cry (because they are there) at the same time. How much pain would you say a person who flogs a dead horse to try and make it walk, is in?
And if these ranters were open to learning, well, that would be great but the answers they give would hardly turn a christian from his/her faith to their atheism or whatever and their points of view are just not enticing enough for anyone to think their way is correct or embraced by intelligent beings. Christians have hope, faith and charity and a god who loves them! What do these ranters bring to the table? only harshness, inaccuracies and unsubstantiated brief prevarications along with other undesirable elements.
If these ranters want to sell whatever their belief is, of which i am sure we christians certainly do not know and on that point we are never informed; to christians they have to have a product christians want to buy. If they are not concerned with selling their point of view then obviously they are here for self medication reasons, perhaps vindication, revenge upon god for letting them down which we christians know never happens.
Of course dear poster i wish you well, but after all this time, so many months and posts numbering in the thousands, surely you can see you're "fun, attitude or need to express yourself" is becoming psychotic.
This is not a judgment, but an analysis, if i am in error please feel free to respond in a lengthy, accurate and well meaning regard.
I must say, this post confuses me.
You speak as though I've been here for a very long time and have posted numerous things on the subject. This is my first . .
I agree with what you say.
But I am not sure you are actually speaking to me . . .
You are in error.
You are looking in the mirror, it is you who tell others that you have the only understanding of life, and it is not only naive and totally unproven. It is ridiculous and absurd as well.
Where's the proof? Oh that's right, he found your car keys for you while he skipped over a million dead bodies to do it.
The title of this thread is indicative enough of how deeply thinking goes and how well your beliefs are thought through!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record . .
All of us here understand what you believe, earnesthub, and you are entitled to believe that.
You don't have to stand up for yourself anymore. We understand, ok?
What sort of condescending nonsense is that?
I also understand what you believe. Should I say Been there, done that?
No I was not being condescending at all.
I'm saying, we understand.
I'm not attacking you in any way. Simply - you've made yourself heard and we understand what you believe. That is all.
Thank you for your opinion - you are entitled to it and you've voiced it clearly.
I'm not being sarcastic or condescending at all, my friend.
it is you who tell others that you have the only understanding of life, and it is not only naive and totally unproven.
it is only unproven to you. I have enough proof to answer even the most ridiculous posts and proof left over to worship a god you cannot understand. So please don't put yourself on me, we are different. It is you who have no proof, not me.
It is ridiculous and absurd as well.
but well backed up. I quote things from scripture, i purport logic, that you don't get, but i am not surprised. Again my belief is only ridiculous and absurd from your perspective, not mine. christianity works well, my god is uninjured by you and so am i. I am so very happy and secure in my afterlife. What do you have to compare?
Where's the proof? Oh that's right, he found your car keys for you while he skipped over a million dead bodies to do it.
he did find my motorcycle keys! he found my stoney heart and made it flesh too, he filled me with a joy the unsaved will never know. He didn't skip, he wept and he is still weeping but God is not overly concerned with quantity, its quality he wants and he is willing to work with everybody and give gifts. People die, that's a fact but he is a god of resurrection! afterlife! This life is so short and pointless except that he take His home. I am glad he keeps the belligerent and angry and ungodly out because they would just ruin the wonderful life ahead.
The title of this thread is indicative enough of how deeply thinking goes and how well your beliefs are thought through.
and your posts are very deep and very well thought through.
How deep they are i could copy and paste them all in about 50 lines. Please dear friend don't waste my time unless you have something deep and thought through to say. My posts far exceed your paltry minuscule parsings of egocentric simplicity and i pwn you continually in every response to your posts.
Have a terrific day.
It must be great to have such belief. Like a legend in one's own lunchtime.
Where is the insult. I patted his head to show how condescending it is to ask someone, what they think of this particular scripture then say: Lets see what you "think" you know.
Which I already explained to him.
Yeah . . but it was still kinda mean to say *pats on head. Both were condescending.
But no matter. I understand where you're coming from. No worries.
you know one thing about this form of communication is, that you / I have to watch how we word things, because it sure can get misinterpreted.
I've noticed that.
How in hell could anyone misread what you said?
You made a condescending remark which would be recognisable by any version of English you prefer.
earnest, you would argue with a fencepost.
and your dads a.... Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
How many condescending remarks have you made? Unbelievable.
You need a mirror?
Now who is the hypocrite.
Ha ha, who asked you. Whatever, I never said hypocrite, but you just did, nice work.
Diane . . I think he was talking to Earnest . . .
oh sorry, my bad, see what I mean, If you don't pay attention you get things messed up. lol Sorry, brotheryochanan.
You guys are very smart...just like your book!
Darkened One, I never insulted your intelligence.
Why do you have to insult mine?
I didn't do anything against you.
Yah the book is lovely. Have you ever read proverbs.
heres one for ya.
Proverbs 10:11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
Here's another lovely little one.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
So tolerant! So completely..... neurotic!
Just as a question: do you have the number of how many people were put to death for this sort of act? Do you think everybody was ignoring this law and just going about doing their own thing. I bet nobody in Gods camp thought homosexuality was a good idea. And that is what god wanted. Now the societies without god, sodom and gomorrah apparently this is all they did. Personally, this kind of behavior makes me squeemish. i prefer women totally. In fact i hardly understand what would make a man want to have sex with another man? Do you?
Just because he said it doesn't mean anybody had to do it. If society said you would be killed for killing somebody i bet you wouldn't do it. This is the purpose of the law. Its not there to kill people but to be a deterent to those who think they will.
Try a new testament scripture next time your obsession with the law is quite behind the times, however, if you lie with a male you will become spiritually dead. Which means that god will not treat you as a son because you metaphorically go against the natural way, which is spiritually, life with gods best intention for you. This is equivalent to a wilderness experience which can last for as long as reparations take.
See the parallel?
finally someone else who is not afraid to take a stand, See they think you are suppossed to turn the other cheek. Well, I only have two cheeks so once i have done that , then I'm sorry, I will stand up for myself.
Name calling as they like to do, only shows immaturity.
Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
smite defined means: 2) to smite in the face with the palm of the hand, to box the ear
boxing the ear or the palm of the hand does not do damage, a closed fist does damage. We are not to let ourselves be physically harmed, broken nose, eye gouged out or stabbed with a knife.
Jousting in hubpages does not even come close to a slap :LOL:
such a sensible religion.
Well that is obviously not an accurate verse. Nothing has covered your mouth so far tonight in spite of all the wicked things you had to say so far. Ernest has good reason not to believe. It should be men, not God that he loses faith in. Try converting instead of alieanating Athiest. They are angry and you do not help matters at all.
you think they can dish it out but can't take it huh. These men know what they are doing i doubt they need you to stand up for them. They've been posting the same old stuff over and over for a year or more. They are seasoned. Did you see one glimmer of convertability in any post?
Sometimes truth hurts and i wish i didn't have to say it. But as i have said before, we are not door mats. Mess with me, call my dad a sky fairy, tell me im deceived and stupid and i won't ignore it. Yet i used some diplomacy and tried to smooth it over as best i could.
Wanna another proverb?
Thank you, I know that is sarcasm as always, but anyway thank you just the same.
A mistake is interpreted as ignorance, see what I mean.
I'm from Missouri ....... show me or drop it!
In any case we all have to watch what we say and how we say it. It can be blown up and into a huge deal.
In a previous life; I once had the misfortune of seeing the local English vicar delivering a surmon on the benefits of believing in his God and religion verses the battlefield attrocities and beliefs of the French with whom they were at war.
In full cry, he baited and justified his stance throughout, never flinching. A French poodle mounted his shoe equally determined to have his way.. and did!
Two Hundred miles away.. A French Priest told the French troops about to be 'mounted' in a charge from the English... "God is On OUR Side dans l'guerre!"
Kindly Consider WHAT is being said here.. Before you jam a God down the throats of those who may well 'Know' a different side to the equation!! To those of us who have a vastly greater amount of Life Experience and are NOT from the US.. You may find that the obvious lack of respect comes from the condescending attitude of not bothering to understand or believing that there are many views of a battlefield and many yappy dogs!
I never mean to force anything down anyone's throat. And I never mean to offend.
Everyone is entitled to their own belief.
there are some religions that refuse to fight, because they feel it contradicts with the teaching of god.
That's right.. and they also ensure that their yappy dogs don't intentionally mount their neighbor's shoes either!
Calling a person 'Broken Record' is not sarcastic then? Not even offending?
Pretending to be a lovable Christian is a good try but not worth mentioning...Since its your book which expresses insults & hatreds about non-believers
No, I didn't mean it sarcastically. Only to tell him to stop repeating himself.
And my book says nothing of the sort.
Didnt mean it Sarcastically? U r kidding ryt? I DONT SEE ANY RESPECT IN THAT WORD? It would have been termed as NAME CALLING if it were used by a non-believer!
And about the book...I dont think u have READ it well. I dont want to start with the huge list of hatred & insulting verses ryt now...
awww dida widdle widdy widdums get upset about a bwoken widdle record. lol
Truth is truth we cannot lie. I have also said that to the same person, he is a broken record and thats the truth.
we christians take a lot of flak but we are not door mats.
suck it up buddy.... lifes a, well i am sure you know, but only for the unsaved lol.
have a great day!
I wouldn't see it as name calling at all, actually. It's just a metaphore . . Darkened One, you failed to see any of his condescending remarks and choose to chastise me for saying he sounded like a broken record? That is completely unfair. I meant no sarcasm in a simple metaphore.
I have read it well and read it thoroughly. And I have had people list "hatred" verses for me. But wouldn't you agree that the Bible can be interperated many ways? That's one of the main arguements about it, right? Perhaps you interperate a verse as being full of hatred when really you might not have read what it was talking about exactly or you just took it the wrong way.
I'm not trying to dismiss your thought process on it, only to let you know how I view it, you know?
You knw what is completely unfair here? This THREAD... as u started it! Your personal bias towards Christians are reflected in the title itself. You are addressing the NON-BELIEVERS, ACCUSING them for their attitude as if all of them are SAME, asking THEM to answer your question while the same question & accusation could have been put for those Christians who curses & insults the non-believers openly. You are ABSOLUTELY BIASED honey, YOU HAVE TO ADMIT IT.
And the INTERPRETATION? Its an year old excuse to make the BAD verses Look GOOD. This only proves that you dont have an absolute version of Bible, it is flawed & NO ONE really knows which Bible version is the right one! Muslims do the same trick for Quran, So do the hindus & most other religionists. You would have knew that if u have read those! ...You see, Christians are just like them & no different!
o.k. leave the girl alone now, i know exactly what she means, so many other people in the past have asked the same question, and been attacked to......... Bullies gang up and they are mostly men, sad really .....
hmm...I think she started it, didnt she? & I see she lacks a rational response in reply to my post. Its ok, she can shut off if she realizes that she is wrong.
Btw, I wasnt talking to u...
why would she be wrong. I said the same thing a while ago because it is truth. No christian ever says they are wrong when it comes to truth. A broken record is just that something that plays over and over again. There is no wrong in that. As i have said before, we are not door mats just because the wolves want to hang out with the sheep that does kind of make them bullies.
Don't hold your breath.
btw you are talking to everybody
No I was talking to her & only to her... Not to u either & still dont have the feeling of doing so!
Thanks dat u defined a Broken record...now should I define a a Brainless Moron?
Darkened, I posted a topic exactly like this one in the opposite form, to answer your question about my bias towards Christians. Exact same title, only flipped. I have never insulted you, and yet you come here to demonstrate the question of this topic right from the start. You ran here and openly accused, insulted, and degraded me when I did nothing to you at all.
This post was two-parted, I merely chose to begin with this question. This was a way for me to gain insight as to why there is so much hate going around on these religious forums.
Darkened, you can choose to believe what you want about the Bible, but I am going to tell you that I do not believe in anything but this towards you:
love your neighbor as yourself.
Nice try. Trying to hide ur biasness by starting a flip thread?... but it wont help u to hide it for long!
I wonder why nobody has called you troll.
I figured Mark Knowles would have been all over this.
Mark, whats up?
Rae did not call earnest a "broken record", she called his actions a broken record, which they have been.
I have read all your posts. Three cheers to you for standing up to the bullies. You are the latest in a very long line of people wanted answers to the question you ask.
There are several people in hubpages, who have nothing better to do with their time than to upset people in the religion forums. Unfortunately that will never ever change.
I have enjoyed reading your comments, well done. However the answer to your question is for these people who are actually doing it to answer. They are to be pitied, as they are wasting everyones time, not only there own. I personally know the ones that are trying to annoy, so do not even read their comments, and have certainly long long ago decided never to get into an argument with them, it is useless. Why cast your pearls...... you know the rest of the passage i am sure. Hope you have a lovely day. The sun is shining here in Ireland.
Yes I definitely got my answer a hundred times over from this question.
I'm glad you got enjoyment out of reading my comments - I am thoroughly exhausted now and I will NOT be doing this again. haha. You are exactly right about pearls
I'm about to sleep here in America. It's 3 in the morning lol.
I hope your day is amazing, though. I've always wanted to visit Ireland. It's beautiful!
sleep well. My son lives in Florida, we were over earlier this year. They can take all your energy on here if you let them. I have a feeling you would love Ireland. Everyone has a respect for god and the bible whatever religion they are. I work with a lot of African people and they put me to shame with their attitude towards their work, they do everything well, as if they were doing it for god. I have learned a lot from them, and from the catholics here, though i am not a catholic myself. Sweet dreams
More dumb assed insults! the old Pearl before swine thing. Nice!
How very religious of you!
heard that before eh..
heheheheh hehe always a good one. There's a verse in the bible for every situation. God is like, a bunch of steps ahead of everything.
what did ya think of my last post about the homosexual thing.
be honest now.
don't oink it.
stupid insulting comment. Not worth a reply really.
How is that an insult?
It's merely another metaphore. And it does not compare you to swine. It compares your insults and accusations to swine. There is a huge difference. Just like the pearls refer to words, the swine refers to words as well.
come on over to the peaceful thread on the religion forum let us show it can work..... Earnesthub you coming over.
Nah! If any of you ever get to know me, you will realise I don't run behind people whimpering who imply I'm an ignorant pig.
offense can only be taken, it cannot be given, nobody called you that at all. It means it is pointless, talking to people that don't even understand the meaning of the scripture is all
No body called you a pig, earnest. Quit being so touchy.
Religion is away of life not a debate. I would love my life to preach than preach all my life and do nothing. No offense here ... said in perfect love.
You may be finding some hostility due to the way you worded the title of the thread. By starting with "Why are unbelievers" you're making an unfair generalisation that ALL non-believers do what you are suggesting.
Also the observation you make - non-believers are obsessed with telling Christian they're wrong - is assumed by the question to be true. Whereas in fact a non-believer might argue that it's not true.
This makes the question "loaded" in the sense that it makes unfair assumptions. That term relates to the idea of a loaded dice which is unfairly tampered with to cheat in a game. So it's a way of saying that you've cheated in the discussion (intentionally or not) by wording the thread title in a certain way.
This is what Earnesthub was trying to explain when he asked "Have you stopped beating your wife?". He was giving another example of a loaded question. That question is also loaded because it assumes 1) the subject has a wife and 2) the subject beats or has beaten her. Both those things might be false, but the question "cheats" by assuming they are true. Earnesthub was suggesting that the wording of your question does the same, which in fact it does.
A more neutral wording might have been:
"Why [do some] non-believers [seem] so obsessed with telling Christians they're wrong?"
This wording removes the generalisation by referring to "some", and the assumption of truth, by suggesting that it "seems" obsessive, rather than stating it is, as a matter of fact. Hope that helps a bit.
I pointed out the same thing..but I guess she thinks the Title is completely alright.
On the flip side, now we've pointed that out, we are surely capable of seeing past the biased wording and actually answering the question. I think some people have tried to do that. The general consensus seems to be that the evangelical aspect of Christian belief is a problem for some people.
I'd have to ask why that is though. I can understand resistance to laws forcing us to live according to certain religious beliefs that we may not hold. But personally I don't get upset by someone telling me how they think I should live. I'd get upset if I didn't have a choice. But as long as I have a choice, as far as I'm concerned someone can knock themselves out "suggesting" how they think I should live.
In my opinion consumerism is more evangelical and more "in-your-face" than Christianity or any other religion. Consumerism is full of messages about what you should do, when you should do it, where you should do it, how you should do it and who you should do it with. Those messages use positive reinforcement (it's sexy, it's smart) and negative reinforcement (you'll be unpopular) to influence our behaviour. Those messages surround us 24/7/365. If you live in a city it's constant and unrelenting. Consumerism makes Christian evangelicals look shy and retiring. What's more, behind those messages is the Money Machine™, i.e. the big corporations. I'm surprised more people aren't interested in resisting that influence than Christianity which is naturally declining anyway in terms of political power as societies recognise that politics needs to be more secular, or at least that beliefs need to be expressed in terms of common values. Consumerism is far more dangerous and insidious in my opinion than Christianity.
Why do you consider Christianity dangerous and insidious?
The nature of human beings. We are quite capable of taking something contrary to our violent, selfish nature (e.gthe idea of love, peace and goodwill to all) and using it as a rationalisation for violent, selfish behaviour.
That's not unique to Christianity though. Human beings can take any belief or attribute and use it to represent someone as an "other", i.e. someone not in our group.
What usually accompanies this is a representation of how those outside our group are lacking in some way. To a Christian, those outside the Christian group are lost, in need of prayer or unholy. To an atheist/anti theist, those outside the atheism group are irrational, less intelligent or deluded.
This justifies our exclusion of, and behaviour towards those not in our group. That behaviour is invariably negative. It's the negative behaviour and our attempt at rationalising it that I'm referring to. The former is dangerous, the latter insidious. All social groups have this mechanism. Those with Christianity in common are a social group. Those with atheism or anti-theism in common are a social group. Both have this mechanism.
Interestingly, it's the same mechanism at work when children form, join and break groups in a playground. Our negative behaviour towards those outside our social group is no different to children picking on those outside their social group in the school playground. The groups are bigger, the differences more complicated, but the mechanism is essentially the same. It's an aspect of human nature.
Not believing in an impossible entity hardly puts a non believer in a specific group.
Anyone can doubt that there are fairies in the bottom of the garden without being in any particular group or having any particular agenda.
Disagreeing with a ridiculous hateful belief only requires a person to be aware of the inherent contradiction and division in such a belief.
Some atheists actively campaign against theism. So there's more to atheism now than simply not believing something. Also people are increasingly treating atheism as a distinct part of their social identity and using it to distinguish themselves from others.
There are many social groups for example which describe themselves specifically as "atheist" social groups. In fact there's one in Adelaide (anywhere near you?) This is how "The Adelaide Atheists Meetup Group" describes itself:
"Meet other local atheists and freethinkers for conversation and friendship! Come to an Atheists Meetup to discuss atheism-related beliefs and philosophies".
Also letting people know you are an atheist is increasingly being likened to "coming out of the closet". As you know that metaphor traditionally refers to the disclosure of sexual orientation which is a fundamental aspect of identity. By aligning atheism with "coming out the closet", the connotation is that atheism is a fundamental aspect of identity. So atheism is very much becoming perceived as part of people's social identity. Not every atheist considers their atheism or anti-theism as part of their identity, but some clearly do.
I am in Melbourne Don, so yes, Adelaide is close at least by Australian standards!
I lived there for a while when I was doing restaurants. "The city of churches" is a nice city despite having a very strong religious bent.
I suppose there are plenty of atheist groups, I have never had an interest in them, so do not know much about them. Do they have radicals and zealots too? I suppose so, (sigh)
I was once a believer in Christianity as you probably know.
When I changed my mind I never thought about joining any other opposing group.
Where does Jesus say 'The God of the old testament is a false God? I never heard that one before. So If that's the case, God didn't create the world then, because he was the God of the Old Testament. Now I'm really confused!
To answer the initial question, ohmygoodnessrae: for the same reasons that Christians are obsessed (or at least feel it is their duty) to tell nonChristian believers that they are wrong.
Why are Christians so obsessed with telling non-believers they are wrong?
Perhaps, for many of the same reasons self-proclaimed psychics and clairvoyants are so obsessed with telling us about their so-called abilities.
And the same reason why scientist will go the extra-mile to prove psychics wrong? lol
Most scientists are far too busy to waste their time with such nonsense. They have nothing to prove wrong.
It is the self-professed psychics who have to show us they are right, and they never have or never will.
Do you have some reason for not wanting to be rich? There are piles of money waiting for you take away. Why not show the world your abilities?
As hard as it might seem for you to believe, I have no interest in being rich. I am very happy with my life as it is, and wouldn't change a thing.
I agree that there are more important things to worry about than to try to prove who is right or wrong. Psychics don't need to prove anything to anyone either. Either way, my only problem with psychics is when they feel they have all the answers. I guess it's the same issue I have with your way of thinking - you feel like science holds all the answers. No psychic can ever hold all the answers, the same way that no scientist can ever hold all the answers.
Reading your posts, seeing that you always try to discredit anyone who thinks differently than you, leads me to believe you feel threatened by any subject that science can't or won't prove. Otherwise, you wouldn't waste your time making your point accross in this or any other hub of this type.
Regardless, I do like you - believe it or not - I find your enthusiasm thrilling and I applaud you for sticking to your guns, even if it may come accross as being stubborn and close-minded. ;-)
Yes, that is often the excuse psychics use, they don't want to be rich.
Yes, they do. If they don't, then they are nothing but liars and frauds.
Sorry, but there is a massive difference between those who proclaim to be psychic and those who use science to find answers. One of them actually does find answers.
Psychics only do guesswork. They have no answers. They are frauds.
Attacking me personally does not support your argument, but only weakens it.
Again, attacking me personally does not support your argument. This isn't a matter of "sticking to my guns" it is a matter of people who are frauds that dupe the gullible and spread disinformation.
I am not attacking you Beelzedad. I wouldn't do that. I meant it in a good way. But you are not listening to me... the problem you have with psychics is the same problem I have. Most of them are frauds and use psychology in order to get the information out of people and then expand on it so it looks like they are telling you something. However, you are under the impression that all psychics are frauds, and I'm telling you that some people (like me) are able to genuinely tap into knowledge that surprises even me. This is not something I can do on a regular basis and I can't control it. In fact, it can happen as sporadically as once a month, when I meet a total stranger and I suddenly get a vision of his dead brother, along with a full name. When I tell the person about what I'm seeing the first thing I do is not to say a thing to me, to just listen so that I may get validation of what I'm experiencing. If it's someone I've never met before, how can I have access to this information? What do I call it, if not being a psychic? Does this mean I can have access to all information on anyone or anything? Of course not! That's why I believe that real psychics are regular people who are given unknown information from time to time, and therefore it's not enough to open a psychic business where you are basically lying to people just because you need to tell them something.
I am sorry if I came across as attacking you. That was never my intention and I do value your point of view. ;-)
No, you can't. You may believe you can, but the fact of the matter is, you can't.
Oh, I don't know. Guesswork? Coincidence? A shot in the dark? Take your pick, there are plenty more alternative reasons.
What many don't understand are the 'hits' and 'misses' of their so-called abilities. They focus on the hits and ignore the misses. That's called guesswork.
I don't guess Beelzedad. If nothing comes my way, if I'm not 100% secure about what I'm seeing, I don't even dare to open my mouth. Why would I? If I didn't experience this psychic ability first-hand, I would probably be as skeptic as you are.
Yes, you most likely do guess.
You are free to pretend you have such abilities, but you don't. No one does.
In spite of your resemblence to Einstein, I am very attracted to you as of right now. If you disagree with me one more time, I might become infatuated. lol
Funny you should mention that, I don't resemble Einstein at all but have on several occasions been mistaken for Jackson Browne and have had women ask me for my autograph.
It's due to the human need to prove oneself right.
It is simple. They passionately believe that Christian are wrong.
You mentioned "unbelievers", I assume they are people who do not believe in Christian views. They may still believe in God and some even in a more magnificent God that Christians cannot accept
it is human nature..nothing to do with non believer or believe..convinced brain for god or no god would try to float his/her belief ...
I don't believe in any god. Yet I have no desire to tell anyone else that they should or should not believe in anything.
In fact if believing in a god, alien, flying unicorn or whatever gives you peace of mind and gets you through the day, then more power to you.
Why should I care what you believe in, it's your life not mine.
You can get told you're going to Hell and burning in torment only so many times before getting pissed off and defensive.
I find it greatly interesting and humorous, that such non-believing people are so in tune to feelings, so easily 'hurt' by confrontation, when they crow only logic. All the while provoking and poking sticks at a very nervous, hungry lion. While I do express equal humor in sensationalists crowing logic, the point is rhetoric is itself. Neither side has any validation --no testimony. Both sides use each others written text as validation and basis for their arguments, yet neither has an true nor absolute proof beyond them. Obviously this is the creation within the humanISM condition. Ha! Quality, the united equation-sensation.
I have read the texts of Torah, letters of the 'new testament' as well as many 'logical'-- though inadequate-- documents of science and not one can validate Purity. Certainly, they validate one another, because they are the same, really, an approach of the human condition: one by equation-sensation (common sense) the other by sensation-equation (sense of commune). How silly after x-thousands years neither one of you --individually or as a group collective society --can truly show the purpose of your reason and most certainly the reason for your purpose.
Perhaps it is 'time' for the children of men to put away their toys and actually listen to Creator. Close your books, quiet your brains, and listen to actual reason. You might be surprised at the outcome. You cannot claim a testimony/proof by laboratory or bible --no matter how you pretend to inject its spirit-- because it is from such novels you supposedly found the meaning or familiar spirit in the first place...
Ironically, both sides actually agree in this: there is an end to all this in order for there to be a new beginning. should either side would get a clue, you would understand instead of assuming/accepting you know. There is only One source that knows and 'He' is not in books or billboards or bangles of gold. 'He' is not in laboratories filled with animal, human or plant cadavers; steel/glass temples with stainless steel/wooden incense lined alters; idols of stone or formaldehyde flesh...
Well actually... I was taught that 'God is everywhere'.
Many are. In fact, it really comes down to which G/god in the human perception is the one in question. Indeed, there are many gods/goddesses and many false deities/myths --all apart of the same belief systems. The equations "non-god" and the sensations "god of gods" are two fish in the same pool. But, as stated quite often the One who is, is not a god. A G/god is a human necessity. Creator is everything, not just everywhere. Just one single breathe of Creator is the ever expanding universe humans live in....
I never try to force my Christian beliefs on others. I respect the beliefs or "unbeliefs" of others and expect the same. I strive to be a good example, instead.
Perhaps part of the problem is that "some" people, in their unbelief, are just as obnoxious as some believers are. Obnoxious is just plain obnoxious. Some hubbers feel compelled to set "you christians" straight, even though they don't believe in anything greater than themselves. Kinda like finding a KKKer at the annual meeting of the NAACP
This is an interesting question which apparently has invoked quite a lively discussion. So many posts in only three days.
For those who have chosen to reject the church, I think you bring up many relevant and valid points that church leaders should take seriously. Obviously, the church has not exemplified the body of Christ as it should.
The two principle points of Christianity are holiness and love which can be summed up in the Golden Rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." However, both Jesus and the Apostle Paul extended this rule with other teachings and the example of their lives to what others now call the Platinum rule which says "to do unto others what they would have you do for them." This means that you treat others well regardless of how they treat you back.
Jesus said, "I did not come to condemn the world but to save it." This means he came to promote the best of heaven and humanity. The story of the woman found in adultery is a great example of how the church is to respond to the world around it. To extend grace and lovingly call them away from harmful and sinful practices. Not to force them, for Jesus knew that it is impossible to legislate morality. But, to show them the benefits of righteous living in a loving and patient manner.
Who amongst us are against love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness and self-control? Who is against loving your neighbor, loving your enemy, and sacrificing personal rights and comfort for all to thrive and grow to their optimal potential? These are the things Jesus preached and exemplified and how the church should reach out to the world.
Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire and the Inquisitions were about political power; The Crusades about survival against the threat of Muslim hordes invading Europe; and Slavery in the western world about economics and greed. Even though the leaders of these movements invoked the name of Jesus and divine right from God, they were not based on Christian teachings. It is severely regretable that they were ever tied to Christendom, but they are not Jesus.
I once heard this and use it whenever anyone tries to challenge or deny my beliefs, "If it weren't for christians atheists would have no purpose". Period......
Oh my. Can't we all just get along? If you have a belief different from someone else, it doesn't make it right or wrong. It just makes it different. I am a Christian. However, I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. I wear it in my heart.
by ohmygoodnessrae7 years ago
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