Great Writing Gets Blown Off on HubPages

1. 76

   Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

   You know, I see forum posts complaining about  how the forums are boring or dying.  I see people complaining about how there's all "Indian Aunties" hubs or picture hubs, how people don't edit, it's all marketing crap and nothing good to read... and then I find these amazing writers who are so clever, articulate, interesting, funny... and they have 40 or 50 hubs, have been here for 9 months or a year and a half... and they have as many "fans" as they have hubs.
   
   God.  WTF is wrong with people?
   
   I have just spent the most enjoyable night reading the hubs that iantoPF has written. I still have a few left to read, but, after 10 or so hubs, I get it.  He's great.  He's deep, articulate, witty, well read.
   
   The fact that such incredibly entertaining and interesting and informative work has delivered him hardly more fans that his forty-one hubs just pisses me off.  How do people get hundreds of followers for just being an a**-slapping, glad-handing forum wh*** (which is fine, I'm not saying that's bad), but great, deep and interesting stuff like this gets ****.
   
   This is why the world is going to crap itself and end up back in the dark ages.  Nobody cares about good stuff.  Light faire is fine.  But, god, really, this guy only has 50 F-ing fans?
   
   Just kill me.
   
   If you want a great way to start appreciating his work, check these two in sequence:
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Halo-3-ODST-Lyrics
   then check out...
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Light-of-Aidan-Lament
   They work together in a truly delightful way.

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   1. 61

      LarasMamaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with everything you say, but right now am too sleepy to add my own thoughts.

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   2. 88

      Edweirdoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I completely agree, and it is exactly why I have avoided the forums myself.
      
      Granted, I haven't been around as long as the others you mention, but I still think I'm "one of the good ones" on HubPages.
      
      Having lots of followers on this site, though, doesn't mean all that much to me. I'm more interested in traffic from outside of HubPages, and so far in my short 3 months I get almost 90% of my traffic from outside sources.
      
      Sure, my author score will never get to 100 because I don't "participate" enough in the community, but so what?
      
      I mostly get outside traffic and am well on the way to my first Adsense payout after just 3 months and 50-some hubs.
      
      Clearly, I'm doing something right, and rampant forum posting is not part of my formula for success. And neither are naked aunties or poorly written crap published just for the sake of publishing...
      
      I wish all the best for everyone who is a member of HubPages for the opportunity to WRITE GOOD CONTENT and share it with others. And maybe make a buck or three along the way

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         barryrutherfordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "ditto" to what you have said here Edweirdo

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      2. 87

         Polly Cposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Edweirdo, sounds like you are doing really well, I have been on here for two months and I am not making any money at all. Just wondered if you make your money from one particular subject or if your clicks are widespread throughout your hubs as I am clearly doing something wrong!

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         1. 88

            Edweirdoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Polly,
            
            I don't have any particular subject that I write about - I write about what interests me.
            
            Yes, I do some research to see if there are ways to tailor my writing to fit into profitable "niches", but I don't go much farther than that.
            
            If you're interested in writing just for the money, there are endless resources that address that.
            
            But I would encourage you to "write what you know" and to try and take on the "30 Day Challenge" - write 30 quality hubs in 30 days. That was my first and greatest self-motivator here,and it seems to be working.
            
            The more you write, the more opportunities you create for yourself to get more and more exposure - keep the writing "real" and keep the quality high and you can succeed

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   3. 47

      Jackson Riddleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hear Hear! (to OP).
      
      You have relit the fuse that detonates my creative and unrestrained hub bomb. I'll see what I can produce.

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   4. 72

      seanorjohnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Shades, thanks for directing me to Ian's writing. What is also notable is his humility and considered responses to all his commentators.Good to see people like you and Mark Knowles recognising this hubbers talent.

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   5. 56

      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Didn't you start another thread like this recently where you demanded that everyone adore some writer you were fond of unless they wanted to demonstrate that they had no taste, etc?
      
      Is this a technique of yours for turning people away from certain writers for some reason?
      
      It's a strange attitude...

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   6. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      there are tons of wonderful writers at HubPages who, sadly, never get discovered. i mean, i never heard of this one 'til you mentioned it. i was writing a series of hubs to help shine the light on some of them but i got so much harrassment from trolls over it, i stopped doing it...
      
      thank you for introducing us to this one. very interesting!

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      1. 76

         Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I know.  What's up with the attitudes about pointing out good writers and acknowledging that you like them?  That attitude is beyond me.  In fact, like you said, it has to be trolls, because no actual human would care if someone pointed out that they liked something and thought others should read it.
         
         I for one will continue to point out good reads when I find them, and I will continue to do it in my own, bombastic and know-it-all style.  Trolls amuse me anyway.

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            alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Trolls only purpose is to bring down a site, both in terms of value and quality. They seem to be driven by jealousy of good writers and attack what they are unable to do, you will notice their hubs, if you can bother go look, are drivel, their followers are the few professional followers who turn up for everyone and then a few that are their own clones.
            
            Trolls agenda is about disrupting and bringing forum discussion down to some adolescent level, or breaking up political discussions as they ascribe to some far right ideas.
            
            These creeps also have a gamer mentality and can play the forums like a game all day and night in various guises.
            
            Hub pages don't seem to want to interfere in what is clearly troll activity that keeps the good writers out of the forums which I would have thought were meant for writers sharing ideas.  The troll TKSensei/Sab oh/Padrino appears now to have spawned another two or three faces already, I guess when it is the only person on here it will have fulfilled its right wing supremacist agenda.

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               cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               
               i knew Sab Oh was TK but Padrino too?
               
               well that explains a few things then.

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      2. 0

         Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         grrrrr I loved your hubs!!!

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I dont know why, thanks for the links.

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   8. 59

      yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Someone right now is posting the greatest story over written on a forum somewhere, but it won't gain much notice. How can this be? Well ... The sad truth is ingrained in how these things work.
      
      For example ... Person A makes a lot of excellent posts in the forum so readers look at their profile to learn more about person A. In doing so, they find a few hub titles that pique their interest and fan the person to read more of the same.
      
      All of us here are products. By placing ourselves on the shelf we make ourselves more visible, and those that are deemed interesting are bought and paid for (fanned). So, are we all buying the juiciest fruit in the market?
      
      Well, perhaps not ... A person who writes a lot any barely enters the forum could easily go unnoticed. Why? Well, as hubbers we don't make it a habit to go hub hopping. Instead, we (perhaps errantly) try to garner a writer's gift by their diatribes on the forums, and in looking into these people we find what we believe to be the finest grains of wheat.
      
      However, the best products always go largely unnoticed, as they only are appealing when we actually stumble upon them by chance and take a bite. It is then that we exclaim to ourselves, 'This is delicious! Why isn't everyone taking a bite out of this!'
      
      Well, as I said, we typically taste the fruits set before us, and in doing so, we do often miss the juiciest ones to be had. It's no fault of the site, but rather a fault of human nature.
      
      And as one can't advertise their wares in the forums they can only advertise themselves ... and I can tell you that some of the greatest writers of all time have also been the worst self promoters. That's why it's important for a person (such as yourself) to let us know when we have missed out on a delectable feast so we might also enjoy it for ourselves.

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2. 61

   saltposted 14 years ago

   I know my writing hasnt been at its best, yet it has been great fun writing. Some of it is ok. I have been a carer for someone diagnosed with a mental illness and the energy they can pour out in a day can disrupt anyones thinking.
   
   So this has taught me a few things. I would love to write at my creative best, yet home commitments have challenged this. Ive learnt its ok to work at the level that suits me and Ive learnt that the way hubpages is set up its pretty difficult to not write something thats ok.
   
   Ive learnt layout, Ive had fun finding things on youtube and flickr and just writing. I know I can write more indepth articles and that will happen, as will any creative writing if it develops.
   
   I also know that there are some brilliant minds here and fantastic story tellers. I thankyou for this space to learn, communicate, grow and feel that I can do something even when restricted by circumstances.
   
   maybe someone, should start a great writing forum post so we can see great creative writers.

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   1. 76

      Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've made a few overtures to HP staff to try to find a way to encourage the deep thinkers on here. I'm not sure how to make it work, but I think it would be in HP's over-all interest if they could secure not only the "OMG, I spammed my way to #1 on Google" credibility, but actually some literary or academic power too. They are in a position to do it, but I'm not sure they see a viable way to turn a profit out of quality writing just yet.  But who else could? Who more capable of finding the way to make quality actually valuable in this world?
      
      I suppose I'm the last one who should comment.  I don't read much on here either.  I read books, real ones, actually printed on paper, when I have time to read.  So, I'm part of the problem.  But still, if there was a push to put good stuff up... some sort of reward or benefit to trust quality work to HP... it would pay off.  (I know, Wikipedia is begging for donations... don't make me kick my dog and shoot myself.)  I should probably learn how to fish and make fire from sticks, shouldn't I?  (sigh)

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3. 86

   Elena.posted 14 years ago

   I empathize, Shades, I simply stopped buggering myself about crap content, and simply pick what I read a lot more carefully.  As you say, one can definitely find it here, it just takes a lot of browsing (or alternatively, following you around ).
   
   I don't know exactly why it appears to be so hard to monetize quality, but that seems to be the case. On one hand, I suppose it's a shallow world out there, and "insightful, creative, complex content" doesn't sell as much as .. you know what.  On the other hand, this is a business and HP plus many folks are here to make money, so the content that does is what's favored, and dudes like you or I can take a hike if we're not pleased   It's a free world and all that jazz.
   
   (Note to self: Don't make Shades kick his dog and shoot himself!)
   
   (Note to Shades: You can't make anyone follow anyone else based on your quality standards, because, sadly, those standards are hardly the norm here.)

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4. 0

   ralwusposted 14 years ago

   now I feel guilty. my stuff is crap. there are some really good writer here.

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   1. 68

      rmrposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ralwus, if you insist on referring to your writing as crap, I might have to send my furry little buddy down there to straighten you out!The world loves your stuff, buddy!

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      RedElfposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ...and I repeat
      Silly man has a great sense of humor, though. Perhaps a little self-deprecating today....

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5. 70

   myownworldposted 14 years ago

   Actually, I'm soo glad someone brought this up, for it's something I feel very strongly about too. You see, I came to HP with this notion that it's a place where real creative writing is valued, and to my shock I realized within a month, that it's actually meant for writing that is targeted towards making money instead. I saw and still see challenges where we are supposed to generate hubs everyday and I just don't understand how any creative writer can produce quality writing like a machine. In short, this whole 'pressure' of monetizing your hubs, key words, ads etc. just disillusioned me so much that I stopped writing more hubs here - (hence only 17) and now am working towards writing an actual book off line...
   
   Not that I'm trying to belittle anyone's attempt at writing hubs for money (it requires a lot of work too, and one can manage to balance it with some quality writing and fit in ads etc too) but my concern is people who write for the SOLE purpose of writing and these are the ones who are sidelined on this site. (or maybe, it's just the limitations of online writing!)
   
   YET, I have 468 followers in just 8 months, and though many of them do not follow my work, lots of them DO....and I feel so valued and appreciated by them....so yes, though the overall site may not be the ideal place for creative writing, there ARE lots of people here who do read and enjoy it...and for that I'm truly grateful...
   
   edit: I enjoy the forums btw. but do u know that people who really read my hubs, and vice versa are those I've hardly ever interacted with in the forums, so for me one's hubs and the forums are two totally unrelated worlds... besides, who we come across as people on social platforms should not detract from one's real writing...

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      Jackson Riddleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This was something I noticed too. I came here to write great quality pieces and then was sucked in to unpublishing them and focusing more on keyword related niches.
      
      Like you I am now currently working offline on other projects.

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      1. 72

         Hummingbird5356posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I too had a different idea about what hub pages is about.  I thought it was quality which paid off and have found out that it is quantity and that doesn't have to be any good either. 
         I like to read interesting articles and I like the travel hubs with photos, I have written some of them myself. 
         But there is a lot of rubbish which is there just to make money.  I don't expect I will get rich from hub pages, my first intention was to practice my writing and get feedback from others. 
         I have certain people that I follow mainly and these also seem to follow my work and I am grateful for their feedback on my hubs.  I only want genuine feedback and not something written just for the sake of it.

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   2. 87

      Polly Cposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      myownworld, I think high quality writing is still valued very highly, it's probably just that a lot of people are hoping to make some money here as well. Personally I much prefer creative writing; I prefer to read it as well as write it. However, I have not done any of that on here although I do offline. The main reason is that was hoping to make a little bit of extra money whilst at home most of the time with my two year old, though to be honest it isn't working out very well at the moment!
      
      I value the type of writing that you do much more than all of the other hubs that are geared towards keyword research. After all, creative writing is a real art. When I see a piece of well written writing that really attracts me I read the whole thing, whereas with most of the others I just flick through them quickly or don't read them at all. Like you, I have always wanted to write a book - I've already started but finishing it is a long term goal and it's such a competitive field.
      
      I suppose people see hubpages as a platform for getting their work read on-line, and creative writing is probably easily lost on search engines. Sad, but true - probably why most artists are poor! I'm no expert though, it's just my opinion.
      
      I'm glad you're writing a book, your writing is a rare talent and I think you have a real chance of success. I'm reading a book called Brixton Beach by Roma Tearne at the moment and your writing is easily as good as that, and probably better.
      
      BTW, I'd do a smiley face but I've no idea how to do them, can anyone enlighten me?

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         myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         silly though it may seem, I actually broke down reading this post (happy tears).... thank you. Infact, I'm happy to read all the posts here... just makes me think how so many here are trying to somehow achieve that 'balance' between marketing and creative writing....
         
         When all is said and done, it all comes down to the limitations of online writing I suppose...and whether you have some other means of income to support you or not. I still think that off line options are the answer for serious creative writing.....
         
         (btw. just below the box when u make a post, it reads 'formatting tips'; click on it and you'll see - just like the one you brought to my face!)

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            Polly Cposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ah, I think I've got it!

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            tobey100posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            MOW's on the mark.  Too many are only interested in getting the views and the marketing.  I have no idea how anyone else approaches hubbing but for me, it's just a matter of spewing.  I write what I feel whether it's serious, funny or a plain old gripe.  If you make it readable and enjoyable the rest will come.  Being a veteran song writer you never set down and say I'm gonna write a top ten hit.  You write from an idea and a feeling.  If it's a hit then it's a hit.  Too many people read way too much garbage about how to write instead of just doing it.  Shadesbreath is absolutely correct in that many excellent, even exceptional hubs are ignored completely.  Some of the best I've read have less than 10 followers and very few hits.  OK, I'm done and will shutup now. 

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6. 0

   khmohsinposted 14 years ago

   You are right, crap marketing and cheap content can spoil any professional community and hubpages is no excuse.

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7. 71

   Jeff Berndtposted 14 years ago

   Okay, two things.
   
   One, it's awesome that people are writing quality work and posting it here. I'll be following the links when I can. If you find someone who's writing stuff you really enjoy, by all means let others know, and not just here, but on your Facebook, on your MySpace (if you have one), on you blog, wherever. If you think someone should be read, encourage people to read them.
   
   Two, why is it bad if someone writes "to make money?" I mean, art is all well and good. I hope one day to be considered a "good writer" of fiction and poetry myself. But I also write stuff that's (I hope) practical and helpful to folks in daily life, and I hope not only to help folks out but also to make a couple bucks here and there. Is that wrong? I don't think so.
   
   It's perfectly possible to be both a "good" writer and a "marketable" writer. Sure, it's possible to be a bad writer and be out to make a buck, but really, even if a writer is bad, it's not your money that the bad writer is getting, so who cares? If you see bad content and it really bugs you, rate it down.
   
   And then go write something really good, and bring the quality of HubPages up.

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      H.C Porterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      what he said...

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8. 61

   Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago

   Welcome to the world of internet publishing sites.  Unfortunately, creative writing is a very competitive field to get recognition in.  Everyone and his brother is trying to succeed at "being discovered" as a new writing talent and the openings are few.
   
   But here on HP you can do both if you wish.  I have sold a few pieces of CW and I'm quite proud of the fact, but being realistic about the chances of success in this field is a must to keep from getting discouraged about writing here.
   
   We all have different agendas but you can do both if you wish.

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9. 61

   Falsor Wingposted 14 years ago

   I find it Ironic that this thread has hovered near the top of the board for quite a while now.

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10. 72

    waynetposted 14 years ago

    Whatever the case, great writer or not, you still need to have an optimised article to get noticed. some brilliant writers write that good that it is truly original and unique content, but then they are not optimized for the search terms that people are searching for, so I think good quality writers need to use good SEO even at basic level to help get their work noticed!
    
    I'm not a brilliant writer, although I'd love to be a creative writer and in fact I do write stories and other stuff that would form the basis of actual books offline, I don't want to publish my story ideas and deep thoughts online though, because if I did, it would get pillaged.
    
    But anyway great writers should be recognised more, maybe there is a way of sign posting these quality writers so that all hubbers will know about them, most people want to make money for their efforts, so even some of the best writers will think about marketing....

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11. 68

    rmrposted 14 years ago

    There are still a lot of great creative writers, here. Many of them have become less active with the shift in focus toward marketing, but their stuff is still popular.
    
    If you're new here, and looking for inspiration, humor, or all around great writing, these are a few of my favorites. There are a lot more than these few (including you, ralwus!), but to list them all would require several pages.
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Christoph+Reilly
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Shadesbreath
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/ripplemaker
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Shalini+Kagal
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Rochelle+Frank
    
    There are also quite a few of us who keep more than 1 account, so as not to mix our creative work with our marketing efforts. So maybe the imbalance is not as large as it appears.

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12. 61

    Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

    I have been actively reading many hubbers since I joined here.  As Shade mentioned there are very good writers on this site.  Many have good following and don't come into the forums.  I think if you participate a lot in the forums, some tend to follow those that they interact with the most.  If the person does not have a lot of fans, maybe it just doesn't matter to them.
    
    I am not sure that the amount of followers we have or has any impact on how well the hub does on the search engines.

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13. 85

    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    thanks for pointing out the great writer. I love to find new ones and do a lot of hub reading. there are many excellent writers here. I have a number of them bookmarked, in different categories.
    I'm from the camp that believes we become better writers by reading great writing and sometimes wading through the bad writing to see why it doesn't work.
    In general, I think the internet has become this vast expanse of article writing (some of it terrible) for money or the blogosphere with all of its rants and ravings. it becomes hard to find really good writing online unless you know specifically where to find it. I would hope that HP would want that as a goal, not just money making articles, but a resource for great writing on all kinds of different topics.

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14. 85

    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    here are a couple favorites with different styles:
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/bludstream
    
    http://hubpages.com/profile/apricot
    
    both are excellent and very worth reading.
    
    one more who writes excellent articles, witty, fun, engaging.
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Time+Spiral

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15. 61

    samboiamposted 14 years ago

    There are some fabulous writers on Hubpages. The more I read what is available the more hesitant I am to post my hubs. I can't touch most of who is on HP.

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16. 60

    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago

    ianto is a fantastic writer, shades. His hubs are so informative and well written at the same time. He's one of my favorite favorites, and I'm glad to see you bringing peoples' attention to his hubs.
    
    As somebody else said, he also has a very respectable attitude. He's a wise one, and writing such as his should be promoted.

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17. 60

    readytoescapeposted 14 years ago

    I’m with MWO on this and my dear you have so many fans because you are incredibly talented, I’ve read your stuff, (the Pic helps to). Me, like many others have gotten sucked into to the Goggle ratings and Adsense potential but the only one really making any substantial cash is the site and it’s creators. No longer.
    
    I have resigned myself to using Hubpages only as an open portal portfolio for some of my work. To me HP is nothing more than a place I can warehouse work product examples for potential clients to view and/or discover. In exchange for the web space provided, HP reaps the rewards from the page views I generate and the page views of the others here at HP I follow and read.
    
    The OP is right on target with the statement that there are a number of talented writers here, but they all get lost in the sea of garbage that is posted on here which can take hours to sift through.
    I’m just not willing to dedicate that much time to gold mining.

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18. 76

    kirstenblogposted 14 years ago

    I recently found a fun hub that was written in a way that had me smiling and giggling at the end. This is EXACTLY what I love about this site! If I want to learn about internet marketing and making money I can find more hubs then I can shake a stick at! If I want to read to learn about something its here. If I want to read something fun, it is here as well!
    
    I had an idea for anyone who wishes to help out the writers of a style that is less popular for the online world (harder to get traffic for, more competition, etc). Why not start a blog featuring stories, poems and other creative writing that you find here? I expect you could start a thread asking for suggestions of great funny, creative, artistic hubs to promote on a creative writing blog. I know Dale started a blog a while back to feature hubs from here and I gave him the link to one of my articles about human trafficking and modern day slavery that he has used and my traffic to that hub seems to be going up (thanks Dale!). I know that a few of my creative hubs would love a little more promotion (they just don't get all that much traffic you know). It's just an idea but it could be something that turns into a popular and fun hobby

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19. 66

    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    It was only until recently that I was informed HubPages is NOT a dating site.
    
    Evidently people can post writing on here as well.
    
    I'll have to check it out sometime
    
    

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       Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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20. 80

    Shil1978posted 14 years ago

    IMHO, there is no correlation between the quality of a writer and the number of followers he/she has. I often wondered about the "fan/follower" thing myself in my initial months here at HubPages, but I'd rather look at it as a number than anything else.

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21. 63

    Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

    I found hubpages and was intrigued and decided to give it a try. I had a very specific agenda. I didn't even tread into the forums for several months. I read a lot of people's hubs and wasn't prepared for the extreme diversity of what I considered awful and spectacular. I didn't even realize you could fan someone for several months, or that I could collect them. My focus isn't writing at all, it's songwriting and composing and so I come here to actually destress and write something that I feel is important or funny on occasion. It's all a big experiment. The money thing would be great, but it's not why I'm here.
    
    What I've learned is that the forums are a great way to get to know others. I admire many here in the community, and I love reading their works. I absolutely run from others. LOL
    
    But I am always very glad for those who point out other great writers here on the site, and I think that very act is one of the better things of having a sense of community.
    
    I've become friends with a very brilliant person here. She wanted to do three things in her life and she's done them. She has a blog about raising a chimpanzee who writes to communicate with her and her daughter. I think she's amazing and intriguing.
    
    Here is her profile and list of hubs:
    http://hubpages.com/profile/Aya+Katz
    
    Her blog is here:
    http://notesfromthepens.blogspot.com/20 … bable.html

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22. 82

    ahostagesituationposted 14 years ago

    Just joined, but Daniel...thanks for posting!  It made me check that writer out ianpf, and I love what he's posted.  Writing is a tough gig from what I understand, and when you think about it, it's the only art that demands intelligence from its observer.  Any idiot can listen to a song, look at a pretty picture, or watch performers, but literary art requires reading.  Most don't want to do things that require effort on their part.

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23. 94

    Urbane Chaosposted 14 years ago

    Seriously, have you been to the bookstore lately?  For every "good" book out there, there's at least ten written by wanna-be's who have absolutely no talent and yet, somehow, they still get published.
    
    No matter where you go or what you do, there are going to be good writers and bad writers.  There's going to be articles that are insanely stupid, and still, people will read them because they like the photo of the author.  It's silly, but it's just the way the world is.
    
    For me, if I don't like something, I simply don't read it.  If something happens on the forums I don't like, I move on.  There's no point in making a big deal about things because that's just the way it is.
    
    But, you're right, there are a lot of excellent authors on here that simply don't get enough attention.  As someone mentioned in another topic, there are things that can be done to help these authors out.  If you like the story, digg it, or share it on Buzz, or whatever can be done to help that author out. I think, it would be nice anyway, if there was a specific forum that allowed people to highlight other peoples hubs.
    
    Still, it's a lot better to focus on the positive - let those authors know they're appreciated - rather than focus on the negative - such as how "boring" the forums are. 
    
    And thanks for sharing those writers hubs.. I'm off to have a read, or two.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Great post!

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       William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Excellent suggestion.

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          Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe there's a way that HP could put up a "readers room" sort of thing based on time spent on the hub or something.  That's got to be at least a slightly better indicator of quality than just hits.
          
          Time on there plus thumbs up numbers... maybe figure out some sort of a ratio of word count in comments ... score goes up the longer it lasts and keeps getting input... something.

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             Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Or maybe people could just continue to read hubs that interest them and recommend (rather than demand) that others also read ones they feel are particularly good.

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                iantoPFposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                
                
                I would be more impressed by this comment if it came from someone with 2400 hubs and 7 posts.

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                   Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   That's fascinating personal information, thank you.

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    Pearldiverposted 14 years ago

    Sadly on this site also there are some who are unable say it with flowers.... let alone words
    
    However, Like others, I have met and read the works of some extremely talented writers here.

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    lxxyposted 14 years ago

    I'm with all of you here.
    
    I do my best to merely lurk and play in the forums, or go through a long string of Extreme Hub Makeover posters.
    
    I do have more fans than I'd ever imagine myself procuring, but I can't complain.
    
    I'm mostly here for the enrichment of my creative writing style, though.
    
    Time to start clicking.
    
    Thanks for all of your pleasant responses and groovy links.
    
    lxxy

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    Missi Darnellposted 14 years ago

    Greek One cracks me up! I think it's just about what people searching the web are looking for inparticular, why the money making hubs do so well. When I first started I read on HP that if you want to make money write what people want to read, up until that point I had been writing from heart so to speak and was doing so so. Well I took the advice and sure shootin my most frequented hub is about how women want to be kissed. Go figure.

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    Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

    Greek: Just, lawl.
    
    Jeff Berndt: I don't think there's anything wrong with making money.  And I totally agree that profit and quality are not mutually exclusive. 
    
    Shil1978:  I agree with you; followers/fans are not necessarily indicative of quality.  iantoPF is evidence enough.
    
    Sab Oh: Yep, I did point out another kick ass writer a week or two ago.  Sorry to hear you are still cramping up about it.  Everyone else seemed to grasp the nature of my intent with that post.  Take off your bitterness goggles and you're colon will relax.

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       wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       I agree with many of the posts here.  I came to HP with the hopes of making money with creative writing, but alas, it has proven NOT to work.  I still do slide in the occasional creative piece so as not to lose my mind, but they've become few and far between of late.  I AM here to make money, to learn, to read and to possibly make a friend or two along the way.  HP is now beginning to give me a nice little monthly income that helps me be able to stay home and focus on writing my book.  I, along with many others, would no doubt choose different topics to write about if only they were profitable.  My task has then become to discover interesting and creative ways to write about profitable topics.  That's a challenge, no doubt, but possible. 
       
       I respect many writers on here, MOW is tops in my book.  This is one reason I stick around here, to read the great work of these talents.  But, like Wayne I fear publishing many of my creative works here for the "copy/paste" function so readily utilized by internet lowlifes.  So, I lead somewhat of a double life...  I write here for monetization, and save my good stuff for my off line world...

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          Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          haha, great picture!  That looks like my cat.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Take off your bitterness goggles and your colon will relax."
       
       That's funny coming from YOU.
       
       
       AGREE WITH ME!!!!!! YOU MUST AGREE WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!
       
       That's about your M.O. isn't it?

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          Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Nope.  Hyperbole and inebriated enthusiasm are my MO.  But let me guess, taking everything too seriously and being a part time troll are yours?

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             Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Do I have to agree with you?

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                Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                An interesting dilemma. You'll have to consult the troll's handbook.

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                   Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Or I can just ask you directly.

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                      Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I know you are but what am I. 

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    IzzyMposted 14 years ago

    I've just read this whole thread right through and I still think content is King and as such those who write well here will do well no matter where they write. Those who don't get recognition on here from fellow writers, will surely get it from google searchers or find a lot more fans out there on the web than they could ever hope to find here.
    I think I read somewhere that things are going to change online - that google is going to somehow put less preference on keywords and more on content, to clean the web up of some of the trash that is on it.
    I hope that's true, because that puts content back where it belongs, on top.
    I love writing here. I love how I feel my writing skills are developing with practice. I love being able to write about anything I choose.
    Unlike when I do article writing for other people and get told what to write about, how many words, what keywords they want, how many times you have to include the keywords and in what paragraphs.
    it's easy enough to do but restricting when my creational flow kicks in and I want to shoot off at an angle and can't because I am not paid to do that.
    But I can come back here and write to my heart's content, and maybe even get paid to do so! (if the keywords bring in enough clicks etc). I wish I didn't have to have one eye on the keywords at all times, but that is the price we pay if we want to make money.

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       Urbane Chaosposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       As they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating."  You're exactly right, the true artists out there will gain a lasting following as long as they write for the reader, and not simply for money - although money helps.
       
       Content IS king.
       
       And, it would be awesome if Google did that.  It'd throw a lot of those so-called SEO experts out there for a loop, but it'd be worth it.

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    wordscribe41posted 14 years ago

    Attractive cat you have then.  And now, Shades you know how he or she would look sporting some cool goggles.  But, I wouldn't recommend putting them on if you value your epidermis.  Trust me, my kids put their Build-A-Bear sunglasses on my cat once and it wasn't pretty. 

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       Art 4 Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm not here to make money...actually, I have made none, I just write because my life is so boring....all my hubs are based on truth, many have been exaggerated a little to be funny....but, I am no great writer, have no real education, just high school,... I am only a middle aged woman, that loves to draw and paint.... I am so totally isolated from the outside world, and people..I am here alone, proberly 94% of the time, sometimes I think that is for the best, I have found that people can be cruel, and I always seen to have a target on my head... I dont like to hurt other's feelings, so I never take up for myself, and that puts me in the target zone...sometimes I just wish I had someone to talk to....the only way I stay in contact with what is going on in the world, is watching the tv....so I write my stories,  here on the hubs, to entertain myself and hopefully entertain some other people along the way. My hubs are simply written with the goal of putting a smile on someone's face.......
       ..I do enjoy getting out on the forums, I may not post much, but I do enjoy reading all the comments.....
       Jan

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          wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, and you write WONDERFUL stories.  I remember reading and enjoying your hub on the strangest Ebay auction ever.  I completely understand where you're coming from. 
          
          I think you underestimate your writing ability... 

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             Art 4 Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Thank you wordscribe41, that was really sweet of you to say,....the ulitimate hippie vacation, ebay auction was quite the experience, sure beat my normal daily routine...LOL...my kids are just a little wierd at times...but, it keeps life interesting...
             I am not a good writer, I just write from the heart, and hope that people understand what I am saying most of the time....
             

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    iantoPFposted 14 years ago

    First I'd like to publicly thank Shadesbreath. since he recommended me my traffic from Hubpages has shot up and I've got more fans these last two days than the last three months. It's very encouraging and deeply appreciated.
    I am in the fortunate position of having a very good job that pays the bills and allows me to enjoy the things I enjoy so I'm not constrained to write for money. Hubpages is where I practice to develop my writing skills and compared to my first Hubs I believe I have improved.
    The forums are a place I write rarely, I prefer to read them than get sucked in to some of the bear baiting that takes place. I avidly read hubs by Mark Knowles and Sunforged for the advice they give on writing. They know how to monetize and while that's not an issue for me I still learn a lot from them. An example of how to make money here is Misha. He is profitable without being prolific.
    So all in all Hubpages is serving me well. I never expected to get the praise I've been getting, and Pandoras Box is an  intelligent and lovely person. I'd say that even if she didn't say nice things about me.
    So thanks everyone, and Shadesbreath, thank you again.

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31. 57

    andromidaposted 14 years ago

    I agree that there are many great writers in hubpages, they even not get noticed by many. For example, few days back I was reading hubs by phoenixarizona-she has some awesome hubs and really thought provoking.Thank you

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32. 60

    tfhodgeposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for posting your thoughts about this issue.  I'm new to all this, so I'm learning and trying to figure it all out.  I'm just concerned about how to improve the life of others, spiritually.  I do  recognize the trend, in this country at least, for less quality and more 'crap'.  Not that I'm the best writer on the net, but my posts on my own website receives decent traffic.  Having worked in the education industry, for the second largest school district in the U.S. [L.A. Unified School District], I know the trend and focus on quality education in schools has diminished, and continues.  Great ideas you all have!  If you will, at your convenience, please let me know if you have any suggestions for my hubs, in the future.  I only have one so far - lol, but I just opened my account three days ago.
    
    Be well,
    
    T.F. Hodge
    Writer/Author/Blogger & Virtual Assistant
    http://www.fromwithinirise.com
    http://www.twitter.com/tfhodge1
    http://wwww.linkedin.com/in/tfhodge

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    Obscure Divineposted 14 years ago

    I thought 'quality' was heading towards extinction anyway, as the malign monetary motives approach our doom...... 

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34. 0

    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    beats me.
    
    i suspect it is me i could write about angels or kittens and still be attacked for it

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       Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm sick of you people with your goddamn angels and kittens!
       
       

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          Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, this soft, fictitious crap gets old, real quick.  ...Lions & Demons totally kick ass over wussy kittens and sissy angels!  Hell yes! 

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          B.T. Evilpantsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You know I would never engage in pot stirring, but...
          
          

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             Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             ...and the poor mice shall fear upon the winged, hungry kitten.

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             Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I spit out my gum when I laughed.

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             Art 4 Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             HOW CUTE!!!!

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                Art 4 Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                not about the gum, now on the floor...I am referring to the kitty with wings..

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                   Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   The gum could have been cute too, you know.  How do you know it wasn't kitten flavor?
                   
                     You know what happened the last time we shared gum.
                   
                   I think this is the most common form.  I've been watching them for years and years and years.  The really "good" ones make it really hard to catch them.  Gotta have a good working knowledge of all the fallacious argument techniques to spot the super crafty ones.  I have found that calling them "it" and talking about them as if it isn't in the room vexes the crap out of them.  There is joy in pissing off a troll and watching the melt down.  Usually they just go away if they can't get anyone to take the bait anymore though.

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                QuincyDaWonderDogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                
                
                'k, I ams not crazy about cats but dat one is da cutest one I haves ever seen

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                   lorlie6posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   QUINCY!  Where ya been, dude?

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          cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          haha...
          
          i know, how fiendish

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    B.T. Evilpantsposted 14 years ago

    Sorry about the gum, Shades. Want mine?

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       Art 4 Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I think he just likes kitty flavored.....

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    Glimmer515posted 14 years ago

    i thinks its funny how this post started out so serious and at the end its all about gum and flying kittens?? what happened here?

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       Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Kittens ARE serious.

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    mega1posted 14 years ago

    I didn't join this thread earlier because I was weary of responding to posts that want to change HubPages into something they personally want it to be.  The miracle of this place is that can be almost all things to all writers.  Commercial writers come to sell ads and reap from that.  Writers who have a religious or political agenda - they've got a sounding board here.  There are people here who write for self-therapy about issues that affect many, many people     Or who write fiction and want some feedback before they take their tender egos out into the marketplace     And who just want to write about their lives.  People who write as a pastime because they are shutins, or disabled somehow.  People who just want to communicate new discoveries they've made - and on and on and on.
    
    THEN, these same people can CHOOSE to communicate in the HP community forums and that's one way to get followers here if they want.  It is fun.  I'm no earth-shaking writer, but I am getting better from sharing with other writers and getting their comments.  It means a lot to me to have respect of people I also respect for the way they write - all kinds of writing.  And it is fun to joke around and play like people do - gives me a chance to be witty when I'm in the mood.  fun.
    
    SO - what is wrong with it?  If some excellent writers don't get enough readers, they can learn how to "drive more traffic"  -   eeeee  hah!  or not, if they're not interested in that. Maybe this isn't a site just for effete snobs who are quite sure they are the true owners of the language, to exclusion of all others! I like very much that this place is a meeting place for many kinds of people who write and share their lives.  If we discover each other and share what we like with other hubbers, that's part of the fun and part of the process, but its not all of it.

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       seanorjohnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Wow Mega, why didn't you write this as a hub.I am such a slouch 5 hubs in three months.Your forum replies take more effort than my hubs. I want to write good hubs but somehow they always end up as whimsical nonsense.
       
       Tomorrow I will write, just like you. Straight talking.Top of the head stuff.

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          mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          why?  nothing wrong with just being your whimsical self!  I like it! don't change a thing.
          
          I type fast.  I go on and on and on - so you said it nicely!  I wish I could be - you know, terse?
          
          this is about as terse as I get :

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       Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Do you mean "change it" as in, throw out everything here and remake it as something else, or are you saying you don't think people should work for change as in improving elements where it is weak?  You list a bunch of really cool things about hubpages that would be a shame to get rid of.  On the other hand, your list ends rather abruptly, and, by this part that I quoted precedes that list, and it seems to suggest that HubPages has reached a state of quality that can't be improved upon.
       
         Yep, again we agree.  The only thing I think I would add is that, for the ones who aren't interested in learning how to drive more traffic, I would suggest that I doubt too many people post work on a public site like this with no desire to be read.  Writing is a private act, but when you go to the trouble to put it on HP, you are wanting to share it.  I can't see the harm in having people in the community recognizing really good stuff and pointing it out.
       
       
       I yet again agree with you. It would be terrible if someone were to try to get some sort of writing or another excluded from HP.  I don't even really like the fact they don't let the semi-porn stuff go.  The aunties hubs and stuff have as much right to be up as the stuff that has literary qualities. So, we agree that "exclusion of all others" would be horrible from whatever place in hub generating universe you come from.  I just wish there was a way for those folks who write more erudite work to get views.  It's tough though, especially where undercurrents of vitriol surface in the face of any sort of pointed converstation on that front.  It's almost like some people are insecure and project those negative emotions on the intent of others or something.  The up side is, that doesnt' happen often, and people do find stuff to read randomly and can share what they appreciate.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "SO - what is wrong with it?  If some excellent writers don't get enough readers, they can learn how to "drive more traffic"  -   eeeee  hah!  or not, if they're not interested in that. Maybe this isn't a site just for effete snobs who are quite sure they are the true owners of the language, to exclusion of all others! I like very much that this place is a meeting place for many kinds of people who write and share their lives.  If we discover each other and share what we like with other hubbers, that's part of the fun and part of the process, but its not all of it."
       
       
       Beautifully put!!!

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    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    well, i have to add that it is the responsibility of each hubber to be heard and seen. i'm not talking about self-promotion i'm just saying it's partially on us to get noticed by active participation in the community. and when someone nice like the OP notices our work and lets us all know about it well that is gravy

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    mega1posted 14 years ago

    you're so right yoshi - and the thing is, as with most success in the world, if you want to be successful, have a following, get read you just can't be passively writing away in a corner - you got to get out there and let people know what you have going for you!  SheToldMe has worked better than I thought it would for me - my page views went up considerably and I got a whole different readership.  Also I just started writing a fiction story - serial - and people found it somehow - from the feed or because they are also interested in fiction - and so I am reassured about writing here.  It is working for me.  But I'm not trying very hard to be commercial.

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    sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

    He is probably wonderful but not everyone is interested in Halo or games.  How do you know he doesn't get a lot of visitors from where it really counts... outside of hubpages.  Not to say having a 'following' isn't helpful and neat but I know that the money I make isn't coming from hubpages.
    
    Just saying.
    
    Speaking of, has anyone seen Kiwi lately.  I haven't seen her post in some time.

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    russiangypsygirlposted 14 years ago

    I know exactly how you feel, and I am so glad you expressed it. I hate how hubs that consist of about 5 words and 39 photos of bikini-clad women have masses of followers! I have no problem with people admiring this celebrity, or that model, but for God's sake, they can get that on 'Entertainment Tonight'. From practically ANY media source, for that matter. I thought HubPages was a site for true writers, and thank God I have found a few, but sadly, I think this will never change. I write from my soul, pour it out onto pages, and then this site, and I would love to find someone else whose work I enjoy and that takes me to a place deep within myself, or faraway from myself. I don't want to read about the crap I see every day all around me. Just my little rant.
    Cheers to all you hubbers who actually include WRITING in your hubs!

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