I imagine a few people will notice as my hubs disappear here and appear elsewhere. So I write this forum and my last hub detailing my discontent.
There have been issues in the past, but nothing I would leave over. A lot of very good hubbers picked up and left Hubpages this spring and I thought they were foolish for doing so. Now I know I was the idiot.
Last night I had one of my hubs unpublished for either unrelated links or unrelated sales items in the eBay capsule. The only links on the hub are to my other hubs (readers interested in my work might want to read more) and one eBay capsule with products of the company written about. I made some changes and resubmitted. Declined. I assume the rest of my hubs will soon follow. Tax hubs that link to tax programs are unrelated according to the TOS now.
The unpublished hub is only the straw that broke the camel's back. In and of itself, it would not cause me to leave.
The issue that put me on edge is the power grab of my hubs. Hubpages made it clear they want me to edit hubs to their liking so they will have less work when they steal all our hubs.
Don't believe that? Think about it. In a short while you will earn under the HP program or not at all. Once that is complete, they will send an email telling us we have a week to remove our hubs or copyright will revert to Hubpages. This has happened to writers on other content farms.
When the subject came up in another thread, Paul Edmondson ignored the concern. When pressed, he responded by saying that Hubpages is DCMA compliant. Really? I'm glad to hear it. But so were the other sites that made the grab for author's work. The only reason not to deny the allegation is because the process has already begun and a denial would open Hubpages to lawsuits. I give it 12-18 months and this happy ride will end. Sorry hubbers.
In January, one of HP's staff commented that I was the best financial writer on Hubpages. I'm not surprised. One of my hubs (Passive Activity Loss Limitations) was picked up by a national accounting organization and the IRS has several offices using that hub as a guide. The regs were too complicated and I put it in simple terms while following the letter of the Code. Over a hundred of my articles have appeared in the traditional press. Over 400 articles are on my website and used by other accounting firms on their site. So now Hubpages will no longer have the best. They'll have...
I play it straight in business. I detest getting jerked around. Unpublishing a hub that has no apparent violation (any violation on this hub is a long stretch of the imagination) is the last straw.
God, I can't believe I was such an idiot for staying so long. I will miss the people here. You guys (and gals) have been and are the best. I beg you to consider an exit strategy. You deserve better than what is about to come.
Keith, I for one, will be sorry to see you go. I'm relatively new here, but have thought about the things which are happening (most of which I do not really understand) I've decided to spread myself around a bit. I wish you the very best of luck, although I know you will not need it.
Paul Edmondson mentioned somewhere something in the lines of "we will not take your content."
Seems pretty straightforward.
I'm not very familiar with the other issues, but I understand your concern.
If we are sharing staff responses ... How about this one?
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70626?p … ost1538010
^This exchange occurred Post-Panda and has been proven to be a complete falsehood
I just checked and it said the post was gone. What did it say?
1. The post was quoted in full in this thread.
2. The link is still very much live and no such message exists
3. This thread has degraded quite rapidly... it's a shame that any conversation that shows any type of dissent or logical thinking is so quickly turned to esl bantering and mindless cheerleading
HubPages model is one where authors own their content. We are a service provider that operates under the dmca. We won't take your content.(Paul)
So - who owns the images that are uploaded to HP, or are they removed from the database when a hub is unpublished or removed by the author ？
From the TOS:
[ "Author Content": Any content, including without limitation questions, answers, forum posts, ratings, votes, and Hub comments, that Authors post on the Service other than on the Author’s Hub, and all photographs that Authors post on the Service (including on the Author’s Hub).
HubPages does not claim ownership of Your Hub Content or Author Content.
By posting Author Content on the Service, You grant HubPages a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, modify, adapt and publish the Author Content on or in connection with the Service. You may remove Your Hub Content from the Service at your discretion. You may not remove your Author Content from the Service.]
It looks to me like we own the photos but have granted HP an irrevocable right to do whatever they want with them. We can never remove them from the database.
Your conclusion is also mine - they keep the rights to use it after we are gone or if they shut up shop and do something else.
A Hubber named "Tanmoy Acharya" was really sarcastic and mean and.....
recommend1 posted 3 weeks ago in reply to this
"You are a very naughty boy ! "
uthurbanposted 3 weeks ago in reply to this
"Here is another Sock Puppet in the guise of Panda..... Calling Evolution Guy a naughty boy..... ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!! Yuan is getting down....and the anti-dumping duty is going to be ON.... Be Alert!!"
...Someone is saying that you are a sockpuppet of Evolution Guy. What's that recommend1?
We know who used to control Evolution Guy sockpuppet. How is it using you?
No seriously, What?
Wait a minute, IDGAF. Nevermind.
Read what uthurbanposted is saying.
By the way- IDGAF -What does the 'F' stand for in IDGAF? Is that an internet-slang??
I read it when he posted it, three weeks ago. Tell me what it has to do with this thread...
And I'm sure you can figure out the internet slang if you really want to.
go through this one post here- http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/87179
The hand that is controlling both these sockpuppets just got slapped
It is not left with anymore sockpuppet accounts I think - I done them all with this bamboo-eater.
Wow, now you are stalking someone who you believe is the sock puppet of a sock puppet who WE ALL KNOW the main of. And now we have hijacked a thread for it. Nice!
I like you. You seem to know what is going on around here. Give me a hint.
A lady who can say IDGAF in public does not deserve much attention from me. What is that 'F' in IDGAF? Is that a very civilized internet slang? Do you think people don't understand what you mean?
As for wrong-doing, call the moderators - I will explain. And I will hear you explain to them what is IDGAF. Then we will talk.
What is IDGAF- http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/idgaf
Hey, you know your way around this man-made astral plane pretty good. I worked at the place that put it into existence. We used it to communcate with the military and other government subsidized eloctronics and aviation companies. It didn't have a name. We let the Japanese on, and stole a lot of stuff, including our new invention . . . the micro chip.
We got graphic computers before they were on the market. As an artist, I see power in symbolism. The logo was an apple with a bite out of it! (Adam & Eve). The symbols for files and such were called icons (religious symbol with an active spiritual power). It welcomed you to it's world every morning. Soon It was called the world wide web (trap). Then, the net (snare). It is a man-made astral plane (astral projection/sorcery). They soon had crypto programs so engineers from overseas could communicate in English (reverse the confounding of languages at Babel). The search engine "knows" the whereabouts of every registered person (many who aren't) in the world. It tracks their activities and interests.
I swore off of it when I left Harris. Things got tough and I have capitulated. I only signed up for email a year ago. Before long, if you don't take the mark, you will not be able to collect your earnings. They will come looking for you at your last known address to make sure you join.
Go easy on the lady. In Florida, we don't drop the dime. We have a saying,"Snitches get stitches."
I doubt that they could use it off of HP, although perhaps HP could transfer the corporations rights to someone else. They only have the right to use it on or within the service, which would seem to mean that they could not publish our photos on another site unless HP itself opens that site and it belongs to HP.
So what? You haven't said anything or done any thiing that doesn't belong in a bag of Black Cow around here, anyway. Go make some shabby products and send them to Walmart.
Dang Bro! You rock! I'll have to visit more and keep my heart off my sleeve.
Why are you worried? The only service you provide is lip service. If I want any crap out of you, I'll just squeeze your head.
I believe you're doing the right thing - I did the same a couple of years ago, for much the same reason.
I used to spend a lot of time helping people here, and taking part in the forums.
I am still in contact with many people here, who let me know what is happening, as I have an academic interest in what is unfolding here.
The writers here are being moulded and shaped into providing free promotional content on the topics that will generate the most profit for hubpages.
And all the while hubpages is taking more and more control over any earnings that may eventuate from their labours.
Writers Community? I think not.
More like a modern day serfdom.
Sorry you are going Keith and I hope all goes well for you where ever else you write.
Hope I did not take this thread in a different direction and my apologies to you if I did.
I am LMFAO. You are making it hard for me to keep this attitude up.
No problem Keith that is what I am here for. I started a forum similar to this one earlier in the week but for some reason the other hubbers taking part in the forum basically revolted against me, and began calling for my head for ever questioning hubpages.com ethics. :] True story.
I need some help from you. Just now followed. Big Brother is watching, so I won't say more. Let's talk.
Keith, this isn't true. Someone else exclaimed in one of my forums or somewhere else that hubpages was going to request that everyone take down their hubs or else it becomes their property and that it was going into new hands. I reported this info to hubpages and they have told me that that will not happen. They have no intentions of giving up their company to someone else and said that we have the rights to all of our stuff and they don't plan on taking our stuff and calling it theirs.
Thanks to Edgar Allen Poe there is common law copyright in the U.S. No one can use your art or writing without your written permission. You really don't even have to file a copyright, it just makes it easier prosecute with the documentation. Dem dang feriners kin rip ya off doe an de do it all de time.
Fare thee well Keith. Here's hoping you find a happier home for your articles. You've every right to feel concerned and upset, based upon what you have to say.
Good luck in your furture online endeavours.
I'm sorry to see you go Keith.
I'm not very tech savvy... I don't make any money (haven't yet) but I do want to keep the copyrights to my work. I hope I can. So I may have to try something else as well.
I wish you good luck!
They are not making these changes to steal your content, they are doing it because they have to provide certian things to their advertisers.
I have seen a lot of people leave Hubpages, and if I start to lose more oney over the Amazon requirements I may have to join them. I have been moderately successful here and pull in hundreds and over christmas thousands of dollars even after panda. But the basis behind the community does seem to be shifting.
My only advice would be don't shoot yourself in the foot, if some articles are still working leave them, at least until you rebuild your portfolio elsewhere.
Unfortunately I've really seen a decline in the site in the past year as well.
Curiously I have been here almost exactly a year.
Does this mean the decline coincides with your arrival, Mark? (Someone had to ask!)
Pretty much so. I can't understand it. Apparently the forums are worse, the content is worse and there are a load of idiots here.
I picked the wrong time to join obviously.
I couldnt imagine HP bothering to take content, but I could imagine a continued change in rules and policies that led to lots of abandoned content in which they profitted 100% on or kept the earnings made for failure to jump through a hoop or sign a paper or two.
Lots of people created "set and forget" content ... even now with the forced epn change ... i bet there are hundreds of authors who will never see the emails and will have their epn id stop working .. I expect the HP id will now appear 100% of the time on that content?
They wont have to take the content to earn disproportionately on it .. they can just keep changing the rules, lots of people wont be bothered to keep up
Sorry to ask this but where can I read about this as I do not know about it.
^ case in point , a regular HP user who doesnt know there has been a massive change to the epn/hp relationship
You should have received an email, otherwise there is an "official thread" in the forums - do a quick scan or forum search.
I thought it might be to do with the Amazon change but now after checking see it is to do with ebay. I am one of those who joined Hubpages was not able to sign up so I have never been able to use ebay on here. Guess that is why I got no email, when the 'new way for ebay' came out I decided I could not be bothered with it. Amazon might yet go the same way for me. I joined this site because it seemed simpler to understand and use than some others. As things get more complex, I can see a growing tide of confusion for people like me and newbies too.
HP is starting to sound like Kontera everytime something was said. Very defensive. You know, when you say something and less than a year later do it anyway, no credibility remains.
I saw your removed post. I'm amazed you weren't banned.
Something like flash fiction. Now you see, now you don't. I'll put it back if you want.
So you removed it, not HP.
No, don't put it back. I like you and hope everything can be worked out.
I can relate to this, yet I HAVE noticed that the 100 hubbers, some anyway, can have unrelated Amazon, namely their own books posted on a hub, related to the hub or not. This place and its rules are screwy anymore. I guess the 'rules' only pertain to some people here. Popularity contest and I am not impressed with HP anymore.
Very good point. Also when you bring up your personal reasons for not agreeing with hubpages about certain policies or about the way some of their services actual pan out people tend to freak out, have an annuerism, or both. Following this you get attackd for voicing your opinion by an angry mob of hubbers. Whats up with that, freedom of speech folks. But this is just my opinion. Please dont freak out on me....
I do have a pic of an angry mob of Hubbers...
Mark Ewbie props to you :] that was an awesomly hilarious reply :]. I like the picture by the way.
I wish I lived near you Mark, you would be great fun to have around!
Lol Brie, I can assure you that the fun element wears off fairly quickly!
Aw well, lucky for you I like the curmudgeonly types as well.
I'm going to print that picture on a T-shirt and wander round saying "look girls - I'm a writer".
I think everyone on this thread would be fun to have around, except for the guy with the blue screen. My be a TOS violation somewhere in there.
Is it really a surprise that HP makes a disproportionate amount compared to the talent? I mean ... this is pretty obvious from the very beginning.
It's pretty straight forward. You do the work - all of it - and you may get pennies on the view.
I'm still enjoying it though, so hopefully your dire prediction does not come to pass.
Thank you for all the kind words and emails. Like I said you guys (and gals) are the best.
Pardon me for coming off as a jerk, but I am still pissed off. Remember a few days ago when I said I had an online stalker? Well, the hub in question is one of two hubs the stalker used to rapid-fire me. As soon as he stopped the online assault, my hub got unpublished.
That is how HP protects your hard work.
I am very sorry to see you go Kieth.Although I have only recently found your work I thought here's the man to help me when I write about money.
KeithTax: I hope you reconsider, but I hope you also understand that we apply the same rules to all flagged Hubs, no matter who the author is. Your Free Coke Rewards Hub was flagged and moderated because it had links to a Hub about sleep, a site about filing 1040 returns, and other links unrelated to the Hub's topic. If you remove those links, you should be fine. Cross-promoting Hubs or other sites you own/operate is fine as long as it's done within the scope of our rules, which admittedly have become tougher in the post-Panda world.
And as for the question about us considering the change to our payment models for eBay and Amazon: I answered that truthfully. We were not considering changing that when I made that post. All I can say is that circumstances can change with respect to laws and our ad partners' policies, and we have to adapt. I believe the changes are, on the whole, positive for Hubbers, but I can understand some Hubbers not feeling that way for themselves, or having an interest in not portraying it that way.
So I am no longer related to my other hubs? Really? Does that mean an RSS feed provided by HP listing my latest hubs will cause my hub to be unpublished unless all RSS feed hubs are on the same topic?
I would speculate that RSS feeds of your own Hubs are more likely to be viewed as duplicate content, although unrelated links is still a strong potential.
So HP breaks thier own rules? They make it up as they go? So if you use the RSS capsule provided by HP you are breaking HP TOS. Ahhhh, yeah.
The RSS Capsule is really for putting in related RSS feeds from other sources. However, the links they pull in must be related to the Hub's topic, so you have to choose carefully.
If you really want to use the RSS Capsule to link to other related Hubs, you can create an RSS feed from one of your tag pages. You can use the format:
We don't really encourage this, since it does pull in unoriginal content into your Hub. It's probably better to link to your related Hubs directly in the Hub.
That's bullshit, Jason, and you know it. The only reason my hub was flagged was because an online stalker flagged it.
Maybe we should all go around and flag every hub we find with unrelated links as you outlined. We should start with the list of top hubs provided by HP in the upper left hand corner. That should thin out the competition a bit since over half have more agregious violations than anything I ever wrote.
Keith, I know you're angry but to be fair, I have to point out what I'm sure you know: it doesn't matter how many times your Hub is flagged by a stalker, it's still up to a HubPages staff member to moderate it and decide if it breaks the rules.
And even if you did flag every Hub with unrelated links, all the Hubber has to do is remove the offending RSS feed, resubmit it, and it will be republished - so it's not going to thin out the competition in any way.
Our moderation team does respond to flags. However, if there are no violations, there is no moderation.
If you do see Hubs that violate our rules, feel free to flag them and our moderation will have a look and act if appropriate.
I use this website for creativity purposes; I do not have any intention to make a few dollars. However, the way you have spoke to Jason here, did catch my eye, and I must say a few words at your honor.
"That's bullshit, Jason, and you know it." -Only a civilized and mature person can speak that way, to someone who is trying to give objective answers. Jason Menayan is not a sockpuppet who will escape if you provide him a rational argument; which, you are providing plenty...
A website runs on its 'terms and conditions'; if you don't like it - go away. If you think they are unjust, seek that with legal procedures.
One request- If you ever find another website, like HubPages, then do send me an email; I will immediately join that with you. Hope you will be able to send that mail within a few years.
Keith, where were you when all the changes happened post-Panda?
The rules about RSS feeds were changed all that time ago, and as a result large numbers of Hubbers had their Hubs unpublished for using "latest" or "best" feeds. You've been lucky your Hubs escaped for so many months when so many of us were slugged immediately post-Panda!
If you look at the FAQ and Learning Centre now, they clearly say you may use the RSS feed capsule to list related links only - so if you're going to list your own Hubs, you must use a tag to restrict them to related Hubs.
I'm not surprised you're not aware of it though - this is just one of several rules that changed post-Panda which were never announced officially until long after people's Hubs had already been unpublished. HP's excuse was that those rules weren't "changed", they were only "tightened". As a tax man, who understands the role interpretation plays in rules, I don't have to explain why that's a stupid excuse.
That's been the rules for a while now Keith. All links have to relate to the topic.
You know Jason, it wouldn't be so bad if it didn't take a whole day and sometimes longer for the hub to be republished and if HP would be more specific when they do unpublish the hubs. Also, I have fixed one area of a hub just to have HP bring up another area which causes an even longer delay. I have been extremely frustrated by the process and this is something HP can fix. It makes us think that HP doesn't give a damn.
I'm not sure if you remember my telling you that I posted a reply on one of your hubs and it never showed up.....and now I read this I'm not here as much however I just posted a hub about my granddaughter and wonder if it even posted? thanks for the info....
It's in there. I have had some good times in Delaware.
Don't worry bolt, I'm not going anywhere soon..just venting is all.
Understanding that things change and that today's policies may become yesterday's, it is understandable that your comment, Jason, taken in relation to Paul's and the subsequent change in payment models, may not engender trust.
Mr Menayan . Some of us need publish compliance help. Yanking peoples stuff down and just saying fix it! Instead of taking them aside vie notifications and helping them specifically comply . IS not the way to treat fledgling writers .
I agree 100% with you stance, Keith!!!!!
by the way....
If you have do leave, can have your Hubs? I think it would be poetic justice for someone who has never paid taxes to be able to earn money from tax hubs
I wrote a hub about knee-jerk reactions to pulling hubs off HP. Hopefully, you've been through the editors and social climbing required to get any views on the other sites, or pull one off and see how it works out 'over there' before pulling them all off HP.
Yes I agree. I was here when some hubbers left after the Panda fiasco - but I am glad I did not leave because now my hubs are doing better then ever. You will be missed Keith if you do leave..perhaps we can bend your arm a little to stay? Just look at all the great camaraderie here that you will miss....
Keith, many things do annoy us tremendously in this life but with time, the anger wears off.
You can leave your hubs and start/continue to work on other things elsewhere. Since they earn you some money, why dry up that "well" for uncertainty.
Id really hate to see you remove your work.
"A lot of very good hubbers picked up and left Hubpages"
True, but a lot of very good hubbers (more?) also said that they were going to leave and then didn't, as far as I can make out!
I don't think anyone would like to see you go, but it's your choice at the end of the day, Keith. ;-)
Those Hubbers have left the site - by pulling their hubs and moving them elsewhere, yet they remain (active) in the forums here.
I can't remember who it was who wrote an amusing hub on how hubbers often have a different definition of "leaving HubPages" to what most non-hubbers might have.
If someone leaves most of their hubs up, doesn't close their account, continue to write new hubs, and continues to write in the forums etc. I don't think you can blame others such as me for seeing that as *not* leaving HubPages! ;-)
Tough town, the internet...
Life's been picking on me so much lately, that I'm starting to become immune to it.
Great picture and post (although I do think there's just a hint of hyperbole going on... ) .
I would strongly recommend you stay on HubPages, especially if your Hubs are doing well traffic wise and its earning a good income for you. It is difficult anywhere on the internet to build your 'brand' as a writer or provider of information.
Obviously if you decide to leave and take your work elsewhere I wish you the very best of luck and hope traffic returns swiftly for your work.
Due to this and any other content creation site you work with, but do not own, one has to abide by terms of service.
Times change, terms of service can also change and especially over the last 12 months Panda has scared the shit out of many people and and those who use many sites.
It seems that HubPages attempts to make clear when changes do happen to the ToS, yet that also seems defined by other peoples point of view depending on who is asked.
People are human and make mistakes, they can also make mistakes often.
This is why we have the forums. To try and make things clearer.
May I ask Keith that you walk away from HubPages for a day or two, come back and once your fire has cooled a little see what happens on your return.
If you finally do decide to pack up and go I wish you much luck in your future endeavors.
For someone who says he is leaving, you are taking your time already, Just go take your Hubs elsewhere I dont think it will be a big loss to Hubpages Keith.
put the soother back in your mouth and stop spitting it out with all of the other drivel.
I have had many a hub Flagged and guess what I did about it, I simply changed the offending parts and got on with my day.
Woah! I read all of the post. With bridge on fire, I think that this discussion is serious. I'm sorry for you, Keith. I hope you can resolve your problems with the Hubpages staff
It's been six days and Keith not only is still here, but he's got the same number of Hubs as when this thread was first started.
This departure is taking even longer than all those good-byes at the end of LOTR: The Return Of The King....
I noticed that many who said they were leaving months ago are still here
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