Trump supporters should apologize and repent
- promisemposted 7 years ago
0They were wrong. They should admit they were wrong. We will forgive them for their ignorance even though we warned them.
Wrong? About Clinton being the poorer choice, as she would have caused more damage than Trump ever could? No, I don't think so.
Opinions vary. You may see her as an angel, sent to save America from itself. But your opinion was pretty obviously not that of the people.
Still deflecting. My post has nothing to do with Clinton.
No, it had to do with Trump followers apologizing. And I rather clearly explained why that wasn't necessary - that it involved Clinton as the evil opponent isn't evasion, it just isn't something you like to hear. Or can accept through your Trumpaphobia.
Trumpaphobia? Are you now making professional psychiatrist evaluations that you have previously accused me of doing?
Regardless, you have no proof of how Clinton might have acted as president. But it's easy for me to prove that you would hate her anyway with "Clintonaphobia".
promisem- No it had to do with you posting a ridiculous statement, putting yourself on a pedestal of superiority, and judging others. I suggest you check your moral superiority at the door... You sound ridiculous, not worth debating, and pretty much a lost cause. I might also add if we wanted a racist president Clinton would have been our gal... Her admiration for Byrd was applauding. perhaps you should apologize for supporting such a flawed human being. Both Clinton's are disgusting grifters. History has proved this fact over, and over , and over...
Why do right-wing extremists on these forums never answer questions or address the core issue?
People who understand morality find it easy to have a morally superior attitude about Trump.
The bigger question is, why do you support someone who is so immoral?Promisem, to some people morals (their version of morality) is more important that getting an efficient job done. Yes, Bill should have kept his hands to himself, but he did balance the budget in both his role as governor of his homestate and POTUS, but they only see his morals. I didn't support Trump and I don't support most of his ideas today, but I stand behind him on this one issue. There is a lot more to this than just White Supremacists protesting something that should not be happening in the first place. I'm just sorry that they are the only ones with the gonads to stand up for whitewashing Southern history. (pun intended, ironically)
I think there is a 'balanced' that could be reached... Since the newly-embolded WS groups insist on using them as their personal icons to validate their ideals, I can certainly see why Mayors and people, in general, across the country want them removed from big cities. However, moving them to Confederate cemeteries or museums or whatever seems like a reasonable compromise.
Yeah, there are extremist liberals who want to wash this stain from our past; but most of us are not extremist liberals - and that isn't what the goal of removing them should be.MizBejabbers, I personally believe a community has a right to put up or take down any statue they want on their own public land. No outsiders from right or left should have a place in the decision.
The issue for me and many people in this country is not whether the Lee statue should go up or down. It is Trump's equal treatment of white supremacists with anti racists.Extremists are extremists. When they resort to violence they are criminals. When they call for the murder of police they should be arrested and prosecuted. When someone actually murders police for the sake of murdering, not in self defense but as an act of willful murder, they deserve the death penalty, without exception.
Past crimes against people of generations ago, or social injustices today do not make those intent on violence right. Crime is crime, murder is murder and all should be punished equally and to the fullest extent of the law, without exception.
And those who fund these extremist, terrorist, anarchist groups should be held equally responsible for their crimes.I agree with you Ken; however,
open for everyone....
What's happening is
1. One person says, "What about this?"
2. The other says, "What about that?"
Neither one gets anything resolved. One wrong does not justify another. Should we not just address the issues as they arise.
When a group is marching down the street with weapons spewing hate, how does it help to talk about groups that do things "all the time." DJT was supposed to comment on Charlottesville and he turned it into a generic problem.
There should be an action plan that is focused, deliberative and doable.Well you and I differ on where we lay the blame. You blame the President for what he said or did or didn't say or didn't do. I blame the media for being hyperbolic, critical and damning rather than supportive of the President, and ignoring facts, or not digging up the facts, choosing to paint the President in the worst possible light.
Its why I don't watch any of the main media sources, not Fox, not CNN, nothing inbetween, because they can't report without bias, they have to bend every incident, every event, to suit their agendas. Even on Fox, they have some hosts now that are as 'far left' as anyone on MSNBC.
Some hosts despise him because he is not a true Republican, others because he constantly exposes the media for what it is, a lying propaganda apparatus meant to tell us what to believe and think, rather than tell us the facts and truth.
Here is CNN staging a fake event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB4RelW5M-c
Here is a CNN host admitting the Russian story is garbage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLUpyI9y4RE
Real clip of Trump in Houston, talking to people, being human, not what is reported:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfoTPAZ74zM
Being involved, being with the people during a crisis... unlike Bush who hid for days while people died in New Orleans because he was too inept to lead and get things done.The internet is rife with editorials. Van Jones is not involved in the Russia investigation. What is important is Robert Mueller's teams findings.
People tend to believe what fits their own narrative.Your last sentence sums it up quite well, Diane. Trump supporters "have a hard row to hoe", as my grandma used to say.
True Randy! Anyone not listening to fake news doesn't believe DJT Jr, Manafort, Kushner and Russians me. The don't believe Michael Cohn's email with Saiter or any of the other details that are being leaked. I watch and read a combo, including Fox The Five.
Exactly,
There are deaf ears are on both sides.... and those of us in the middle, which IS where I am, are sick of both extreme sides. What qualifies me as being in the middle, I voted for Obama in 2008... did you?
I looked past the stories of Reverend Wright, Ayers, Communism, etc. I was aware of them, I saw some anti-colonialism beliefs in his writings and speeches, but in terms of what was best for the country, and the alternative that we had, he was the better option.
And Trump was the better option between the two choices we had this time around, as Clinton was a poster child for the worst corruption and collusion and everything Americans feel is wrong with D.C. today... that's why Trump is there, not because there are 60+ million Nazi racists, but because there are 60+ million people who saw the alternative was even worse than a Billionaire reality TV host with no D.C. experience. Whatever else he did or didn't do, it wasn't as a politician screwing over the American people.
I vote for the best option, my head isn't stuck in an idiotic ideology or some ignorant belief that one side is good, while the other side is evil... those who see things that way are the same types of ignorant fanatics that would hate people because of their race, or their religion... all the same types of fools, hate is hate, and ignorance is ignorance.
You don't have to like or believe my assessment, you might even be threatened by it, but its right on the mark, and any middle of the road person who read it would agree.I did not vote for Obama either time. I had never heard of Jeremiah Wright or Ayers prior to the elections and they had no impact on my vote whatsoever.
Since becoming a Christian, I have attended churches that teach Bible doctrine. I've had Black and white pastors, as well as assistant pastors of other ethnicities. None of the pastors spoke about politics from the pulpit. They talkled about following Biblical principles.
I didn't vote for Clinton or Trump. I couldn't stomach the choices. While I did not vote for Obama and did not support several of his policies which were in opposition to Biblical principles, I appreciate his composure when he was attacked by Trump. It is as if Trump has a total obsession with Obama.
Trump screwed over America, not as a politician, but as a ruthless, greedy, narcissistic businessman. He had people work and didn't pay them. He brought in foreign workers to pay them lower wages ... if he paid at all. When he went bankrupt, several times, he stiffed people he owed money. He screwed over women, including 2 past wives. Melania doe not look happy at all.
I consider myself middle of the road and am definitely not threatened by your assessment. I think the Democratic Party is going to have to move to the center in order to get a good candidate. I was amazed that the RNC let DJT take over their party ... even though he couldn't care less about the Republican Party.I wasn't specifying you personally.
I don't think the Democratic Party can move to the center... Bernie Sanders was the most popular candidate to run for POTUS, another reason why Clinton didn't win, was that the DNC & Clinton Campaign rigged the Primary, this became common knowledge, and many of those who supported Sanders refused to support Clinton.
The RNC didn't let him take over, so much as he took it from the establishment elites, despite the fact that once they realized he was a legitimate threat they spent hundreds of millions of dollars in negative ads against him and did everything short of hijack the election in trying to sway the outcome (like when they essentially did away with the process in Colorado, handing it to Cruz, and stuffed the ballots in Utah handing it to Cruz).
Probably the thing I am most amazed about, is how quickly the story has changed from what was going on in that election... the people rejected ALL establishment sponsored politicians... they rejected Clinton, and 17 Republican politicians... Clinton couldn't beat Bernie, and she couldn't beat Trump, which the media spent months telling people was the embodiment of every evil known to man.
The real story... is people are very agitated, annoyed, and fed up with their corrupt government.Trump should not have been allowed to run as a Republican. There should be a qualifications list before anyone runs on any party.
I hear about the swamp and corrupt government all the time. Please give me some examples. There may be things that can be fixed. To have any impact on issues, we must be specific.
This is the part that I don't get from the left. Yes, the Democratic Party is going to have to move to the center to get a good, electable candidate. But, how anyone cannot see why DJT took over the Republican party is difficult for me to understand. The Republican Party does not care about the average American citizen any more than the Democratic Party does. They have become a joke. Trump's appeal was more in his promise to 'clean up the swamp'. Is he doing it? Not that I can see but it was a collective disgust with the manner in which our government has evolved in its way of doing business that got the man elected, not his ties to the Republican party. If we hadn't had a two party system which ensures that no one will be elected if they aren't aligned with one of the two, he would most certainly have run in a different manner.
What do you expect Trump to do to clean up the swamp?
First, I'd like to see him push for and back a constitutional convention to enforce term limits. That would be a start. Second, stop pork barrel spending. No add ons to legislation which are used to gain support for a bill. Then, it would be nice to see us work toward a system where corporate influence within our halls of government was non existent.
After they accomplish that, I can probably come up with some more. But, what Trump has shown us is that the swamp is bigger than initially thought. He is just coming from a different part of it.True, Trump knew nothing about the Goverment. He knows nothing about history so he says ridiculous things.
It is naive to think that he can come in and magically do anything. How do you expect him to enforce term limits? It anyone staying in office longer than the legal term?
Pork barrel spending covers a whole lot. Is there something in particular that you are speaking of.
Add on? Like tying Harvey hurricane spending to debt ceiling?
When you speak generically, I'm unable to fully grasp your concerns.Honestly, Diane. If a spending proposal has merit it should not be tacked onto something else. It should be able to stand on its own but, look at the Affordable Care Act. I remember listening to an interview of a Congresswoman who did not support it. She admitted that once they added something to the bill that would financially benefit her constituents she signed on. That's pork barrel.
It doesn't appear you understand what is being talked about when I use the term 'term limits'. It's an easy concept to grasp. But, if you aren't even interested in learning what the term means that is your right.
Trump may have been naive but enough people are in favor of term limits that he could easily get the ball rolling in attempting to move toward a constitutional convention on the matter, if he chose. Also, line item vetoes are the privilege of his office so that is a tool he could use to combat pork barrel spending.
Personally, I get the impression that it is not that you are unable as much as unwilling.Money for Harvey is to be attached to the raising the deficit spending level. What is wrong with that? For some reason you feel the need to talk down but I'm use to that. When people assume that they are more intelligent, they tend to underestimate others..
The president gets 2 terms. You must be talking about Congress. One person cannot change a system. It is naive to think that he could go in and make those changes happen. He can't even control himself.
From things you are saying, it seems like you are unable to make comparative analyses. It is incomprehensible that you would compare being a white wife to being a Black slave.Oops ... The president does not have the "priviledge" or the power of line item veto.
GAShe doesn't understand term limits; you don't understand the limits of veto power, a simple concept to grasp, I'm sure.
But, if you aren't even interested in learning that is your right. Perhaps you are more unwilling than unable.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Your post has everything to do with Clinton. Some people only voted for Trump because Clinton was the other choice.
I have already said that I don't think anyone should have to apologize or repent... BUT...
Yeah, you fell for all the manipulative & fake news (in Hillary's case, its been going on for decades) as much as anyone. So yeah, I'm still holding ALL peeps who voted for Trump accountable (probably doesn't mean much to you, admittedly) for the death of that young girl in Charlottesville - among other things.
Why?
Because The Donald's rap sheet was LONGER and filled with MUCH more obvious (and enormous) 'scandals' spread out through his business career & celebrity stardom. PLUS, those people who voted for him -
considered his hateful, locker-room rhetoric throughout the party-nomination & election process to be OKAY compared to ALL of Hillary's (completely normal and in fact, TAME compared to her male peers) scandals.
Yeah, unfortunately - you don't spend DECADES in a political career like that without getting as dirty as any other man for ALL THE SAME DAMN REASONS.
Actually, popular vote win went to Hillary. Many factors played into why Hillary did not win though. There are good and bad ideas that Hillary and Trump had and have. Now, many people live in fear that the next thing that Trump decides will be harmful to them or their loved ones. My thoughts on it.
promisem - Are you sure you are not the one having "fantasies about Hillary"?
Dan,
Even a conservative like you must see that this President is not a sane person. He is going to get us into World War Three. He doesn't learn anything from his mistakes, and is trying to run the country like he ran his real estate business, by being a bully or suing people until he gets his way. There were no CEO's, only friends, cronies, and family members in Trump Corp. He didn't have to answer to anyone. This is not Celebrity Apprentice. It's our country on the line, and he's making us look like fools.
And as far as still blaming Hillary for whatever everyone wants at the time, she was more qualified and experienced than Obama, Bush, and even Bill Clinton. She was never arrested, booked, or indicted of any of these so called crimes. Did the Clintons' do things that were ruthless and shady? Yes. Find me a politician who doesn't, except Obama and Carter, two honest and serious men who weren't the best Presidents, but they were sterling people.
It's not sour grapes because Hillary lost. It's about Trump's crazy temperament and inability to control himself. He does something stupid every single day, and I don't think every tweet deserves media attention. His first empty handed visit to TX was pitiful, he should have arrived with a plane filled with water, medical supplies, blankets, anything. Instead, he paraded around in a stupid hat, babbling about his favorite subject--himself. At least the second time he and Melania helped serve already boxed and cooked foods, although they didn't actually do anything meaningful or helpful. I don't want to dis the FLOTUS, I doubt she ever expected to be a First Lady, and she is a very intelligent woman, I believe she speaks five languages. And if she can walk in stilettos at her age and look terrific, more power to her!
But Trump is going down for his ties to Russia and isn't supposed to be making so much money off the Presidency. He is a disgrace, and I bet he's gone by the end of the year. If the impeachment process can't go that fast, he's so childish he will throw a tantrum and quit.Jean, just to point out something just in case it wasn't clear. Trump isn't the Red Cross, it is not in his job description to hand water or supplies, but he still did anyway and somehow you still can't be satisfied. Barack Obama waited a whole three years to become President to do anything, while Trump jumped right into the action. Also to say they didn't do anything meaningful or helpful is complete ludacris, there were plenty of people who were happy and relieved to know that their President came down to try and aid them. What have you done for the people in Houston?
"Even a conservative like you must see that this President is not a sane person."
Nice statement. Now, what do you base it on? What are your qualifications to determine mental illness in another, and where is you examination of Donald Trump? Don't have either one? Then don't make claims you cannot support, particularly slanderous ones like that. Leave such actions to Trump.
Suing people. You mean like the various states that have sued over an attempt to protect the American People from terrorist activity?
True. Clinton was never arrested or convicted of her crimes. Crimes we KNOW she committed. And that doesn't bother you? How is that one becomes so powerful that the justice department backpedals and refuses to charge such a person, while onlookers cheer that she got away with it yet again?
" he should have arrived with a plane filled with water, medical supplies, blankets, anything."
Of course. He should have made a few trips to the WalMart on 14th street, loaded up Air Force One with water and flown it to Texas, where the secret service could pass it out to anyone making it to the airport. Come on, Jean - think about what you're saying!
"But Trump is going down for his ties to Russia"
Of course he is. The ties that aren't there, and wouldn't be illegal if they were. The ties to Putin that can't be found, the ties to any Russian that don't exist after spending millions to find them. He will go down for them...in the imagination of liberals if nowhere else.
Just like the impeachment process - liberals keep wanting to impeach him for unimpeachable actions. Maybe like improving the VA administration? For strengthening our borders? For doing his duty and enforcing the laws of the country? Surely that is impeachable...to a liberal, anyway!Trump went to Houston empty handed the first time, and the second time he and Melania gave out Red Cross Food. I know he can't shop, but he can donate money and has ample staff that he could have arrived with a plane of blankets or dry clothes. His personal jet could have been filled with stuff.
He is a pathological liar. Everytime he's caught in a lie, he changes his story.
He is so thin skinned he wouldn't even attend a roast, and sued comedian Bill Maher for mocking his orange hair, before his presidency, years ago.
You really think it was appropriate for people to be chanting, "lock her up" at all those rallies? Many of the people who attended them in the past now say they just got caught up in the moment, and now are unhappy with Trump's lack of direction. They live in the boonies and don't have much entertainment.
More ties to Russia are being found every day. You don't want to believe it.
What did he do for the VA? I truly missed that one. Tell me. I like my idea of redecorating or changing the casinos in my state as handicapped condos for them.
The dreamers were promised they could stay in this country. They were born or brought here at ages they were so young they can't remember any other life in any other country. They have no other home, and still their parents will be deported, even Trump allows them to stay (I think he will). Most of them are college students. Many of them are well educated and there will be a brain drain if they are sent back. Immigrants try harder in school than Americans. I bet we need immigrant labor to pick our crops soon? What do they get paid for a 12 hour day of doing that? $2.00 an hour? Despicable.And he DID give. To the tune of $1,000,000. More than any other president in the history of the nation has given to help out in a disaster. You have nothing whatsoever to complain about here, particularly as you can't be serious that he has nothing better for his time than to hand out bottles of water. He IS ultimately responsible for the aid, you know, not just a few dozen gallons of fresh water, and his efforts are greatly needed elsewhere.
"More ties to Russia are being found every day. You don't want to believe it."
You and I have been over this in the past, but...links to multiple ties between Donald Trump and either the country of Russia or at least high ranking politicians there, please? And if you can't provide proof of your statement, then you need to quit making it. So far not a single thing has been found, but have at it!
Illegal aliens: Your past president ignored his sworn duty to uphold and enforce the laws of the nation and your congressmen and women refuse to pass better ones. Trump is doing his job by kicking them out. If you think he should pick and choose which laws he will enforce, don't complain when they aren't the ones you think he should go after.
The veterans hospitals have seen quite a change lately. It's been in the news quite a bit, and there is vast information on the web about it. But basically is is cleaning up the quagmire the VA health care became - a decidedly good thing as it really was a mess. My son worked there for a while, and the stories he told would turn your hair white.No evidence was ever found that Donald Trump ever donated his own money TO ANY CHARITY before his election. People called every charity imaginable, and couldn't find one.
I am glad he is doing something for veterans.
Although he is getting local help with the extreme weather events in Houston and now FL, shouldn't he be calling out the National Guard and Coast Guard (when it's safe enough for them to go and not be hurt themselves) and not state agencies? I don't know how this works, but we have such advance notice, it seems we could have done more for Houston. And this FL Irma looks very dangerous.
He had that 2 hour interview with Putin that was supposed to last 15 minutes. His son is in to his neck trying to make financial deals which will financially help the President when he is no longer President, like building a Trump Tower in Russia. And those two high ranking Russian officials were let into the Oval Office in the beginning of the Presidency.
We have to agree to disagree. Have the last word if you want."shouldn't he be calling out the National Guard and Coast Guard (when it's safe enough for them to go and not be hurt themselves) and not state agencies?"
Don't know. Does the coast guard do anything 100 miles inland? And the national guard is already out - the state makes that call. At least I think they do, and I know my nephew in the guard in Houston was called up a few days ago. They left the locals alone for a few days, I guess because they already had enough trouble with their own families and homes!
But that very much points to just why Trump's job isn't to go there and hand out water bottles - he has much more important, albeit far less visible, tasks to take care of. So don't get on him for doing them, right? And don't assume you know better than he and his advisors do as to what and when to release aid to the scene. Because Houston got the highest recorded rainfall in the history of the country does not mean that anyone at all had a clue what was coming.
What "2 hour interview with Putin"? Are you talking about the diplomatic meeting between the 2 highest ranking members of government and trying to turn it into some nefarious "connection"?!?! You should know better than that. Just as you know that any attempt to build a Trump Tower in Russia went down the tubes in a 15 minute meeting between some nondescript russian citizens and Trumps business handlers - you know this, too, does not show any "connection" between Donald Trump and Russia.
If these are the kinds of things that you think prove some evil connection between Russia and Donald Trump, yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Jean, It is amazing that new Russia stuff comes up every day yet people say, "Stop the investigation because there is nothing there!" Some are willing accomplices after the fact.
My personal favorite: "not a shred of evidence."
LOLSo? The original claim was that Donald Trump Sr. was tight with Putin. Then that he had connections with the country in general. Then that he has connections with individual Russians.
Can you point to anything showing that ANY of the claims are true?There have been 4 investigations and the dems have not been able to link Trump to any wrong doing whatsoever. If there IS evidence, why haven’t the democrats and the Muller investigation shown it? Why have all these investigations only served to prove Trump’s innocence? The plans of the democrats is just to keep throwing mud until something sticks. They’ve been screaming “impeach!” for 3 years and what do they have to show for it? Nothing but frustration and more scheming. Back to the old drawing board, dems. America didn’t want corrupt, career politicians like Hillary and the rest of the swamp, Republicans included. What we needed, what we wanted, and what we got was an outsider who loves this country, has nothing to gain and everything to lose, a president that doesn’t even take a salary while the rest have done all they can to cash in post presidency- especially B. Clinton and Obama, a man who puts America and Americans first. God bless Donald Trump! Trump 2020!
Leland, “They were wrong. They should admit they were wrong.”
I guess “we should forgive them for their ignorance even though we warned them”
Hypocrites!What an ignorant statement. You seem to really be ignorant of the fact that Manafort shared polling data in key battleground states with the Kremlin. That's clearly colluding with a foreign government. Really ignorant of the ten instances of Obstruction of Justice he committed to thwart the investigation into Russian interference. I always wonder why Trump supporters back those actions, his blatant interference into an investigation of a country that attacked our 2016 elections. Maybe one of you could explain that sometime.
Also Ignorant of the multiple crimes Trump committed to become elected. And especially ignorant of the ways Trump is siphoning tax payer money into his businesses (golf trips, military supporting his scotland golf course, DC hotel).
The KKK Grand Master saw the Charlottesville as a victory against the protesters. The murder was heroic.
These people think they are right. What's there to repent about.Right. They have announced more protests nationwide as a result.
With that you appear to be equating all Trump supporters to the KKK. That makes absolutely no sense.
I agree that all Trump supporters are not equal to the KKK. But I don't think that's what he is saying.
Maybe not. But, if you make a comment such as that in response to your OP it certainly resembles equating all to the one.
promisem - Well perhaps you should pull up all three of President Trump's statements , and listen exactly to what he said, in full, not just a blurb from media. It's Never fair or smart to comment on something that clearly you did not research in full. Trump's condemned on the far right groups over, and over, he condemned violence of any form. He asked for American's to come together. He denounced ny form of racism. And the bias media has turned his statement into him supporting White supremacists. He denounce them over and over. And in regards to him stating "and I suppose there were some good people. There were people that lived in Charlottesville at that rally, that hoped to keep their statue in the park. These were just people that lived there, and hoped to save a statue that was part of their lives. Nothing to do with race... These people were given very little forum, and not interviewed by bias media networks. People like you are the problem, actually promoting racism, by twisting and adding mistruths to suit your cause. Look in the mirror, you are the one that should apologize. Apologize for your tone of superiority. A tone that you feel you have the right too. In reality, you are at best a very glib human being. A man that does little research, and is always ready to give your uneducated run of the mill opinion. I for one had to speak up, that's my right.
Maybe you should have watched his first press conference when he made the KKK and anti-racists morally equal.
Then there was the second one when he had to make up for the disaster of the first one that triggered national and international outrage, business leaders quiting his councils left and right, and racists proudly proclaiming he was behind him.
The fact that you are calling an anti-racist a racist is amusing. But that's OK. Feel free to keep going.promisem - I listened to all three statements. In his 1st. He compared the VIOLENCE of both groups, not their ideologies. The second one he denounced the white supremacist and their ideology over and over. He in no way"proudly proclaimed he was behind them". In fact it was the opposite. You are an odd person, you actually make statements that are so blatantly untrue. You really should listen as I suggested to all three of Trump's statements in full. You're completely taking his statements and twisting them to your liking?
Biggest question: Why have 'racists' suddenly come out to have these 'free hate speech' rallies - since Trump? They DO feel safe with Trump as their spokesperson.
Why do they flock to confederate statues?
Why do they come from outside big cities INTO big cities to stir up hard feelings - where it is the most dangerous to do so; and among the VERY 'kinds of people' they are protesting who don't agree with them?
Might they be TRYING to instigate something? If you're a Jew, Muslim or person of color (any color); WHY should you be okay with angry white men protesting against your very existence?!
THINK... I know its damn hard for so many T-fans to do.
Misfit Chick, It is clear that these white supremacist groups have been inboldent by Trump's presidency. And I feel you misunderstood my comment. I was only pointing out that the latest statements Trump made could be taken out of content. In regard to "Might they be TRYING to instigate something?" Oh, yes, and they did... These kind of people are vile, and should not be given the light of day. They should not have received media coverage. The left would do fr better to protest groups like this being given a permit to protest. They spew hate, hate has no place in free speech., they deserve no forum, they deserve no attention...
Would it not be more intelligent to change the laws that give them the right to a permit. That give them the right spread their racist agenda. An agenda that the majority of American citizens condemn. This kind of violence only spurs this bunch on, it's what they dream of.... If no one shows up to fight them, they go home and have accomplished nothing.
I believe in standing up for one's beliefs in a civilized fashion. I believe if the majority is against any given law, we should work to change it. If the left were to protest the law that gives these vile groups permits. You would fine there would be no argument from the right, you would find them at your side...Misfit Chick, I agree that Trump's presidency has emboldened these vile groups. I also feel if no one showed up they would not have received media coverage, and had to return home will little to show for their travels. Instead 3 are dead, and they won, they are now front and center as they had hoped.... They went home emboldened.
I believe in standing up for what is just, what is fair. However,I also feel that in some incidence the other side will never hear me. In the case of white supremacist protesting only works to emboldened them.
I believe in law, and that laws should be changed when they are avernet to our society. Hate speech should not be allowed. Groups like these should not be given a permit to protest their hate and violence. We need to change the law, we need to amend the 1st amendment.
I think the majority of American's would agree. If a protest was organised to protest hate speech, and our 1st amendment You would find the right and the left would stand shoulder to shoulder. The past weeks hysteria has done nothing for the cause of stopping hate speech. It has worked to further embolden white supremacist. We gave them a forum, our media covered it.
You should be saying this to the business leaders who quit his councils. They knew what they heard.
The founder of the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi and white supremacist website celebrated the fact that Trump "outright refused to disavow" the white nationalist rally and movement.
"People saying he cucked are shills and kikes," wrote the founder, Andrew Anglin. "He did the opposite of cuck. He refused to even mention anything to do with us. When reporters were screaming at him about White Nationalism he just walked out of the room."
http://www.businessinsider.com/neo-nazi … ots-2017-8Will, did they? Many walked to protect their business interests. None would be happy with boycotts. Just my opinion, but I feel he media created a hysteria, and these businessmen and women had little choice... I guess I am one that never has bought into hysteria. I am a realist, and just don't look for drama that is not there.
Trump supporters should take to the streets in his support, or at very the very least, make sure he gets re-elected. He's trying to do what he was elected to do, by over 60 million people.
Just because a bunch of fanatic nitwits want to blame the acts of a bunch of racists, and their counterparts, for trying to kill each other over a statue, on him. Doesn't make it because of him.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/13/how … than-ever/Those 'nitwits' as you say were locals not out-of-towners who came out to not allow Nazi/KKK supremacists to walk down the street of their hometown unchallenged.
Charlottesville: Race and Terror : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg
Need to sign in the watch the video from VICE news.You missed the point. It appears he was saying that nitwits want to blame all Trump supporters for the actions of a few fanatics. I'd have to agree with that. It seems a nitwit thing to do.
It is. But it's also a part of deriding and denigrating anything that has anything to do with our President.
I think us "nitwits" blame Trump supporters for voting for Trump and continuing to support him even when he inflames race riots and protests (among his many other faults).
How... how did Trump inflame that riot?
Imagine if the alt-left protesters never showed up to face off against the legally assembling (they went and got the permit all legal like) Neo-Supremacist groups... lets consider that...
Lets see... no fights... no deaths... bunch of angry racists show up looking for a fight and no one is there to give it to them, so they go home, then the statue gets removed and life goes on.
So... those people who were there... nitwits. Those who are reporting that this is all Trumps fault... nitwits. Those that want to say he supported the racists with his remarks after the fact... nitwits. There are a lot of nitwits in the world, that is obvious, you could have asked the majority of people who showed up at that rally who the last five Presidents were, or who Robert E Lee was and they wouldn't have been able to tell you.
But they were there, looking to fight over it. ... Nitwits.I think you have missed the point - and if you have, most other T-fans probably have, too. (Which shouldn't be so surprising, cuz Trump obviously doesn't realize 'his part', either, if that press conference was any indication.)
He inflamed that riot long before it ever started by providing white supremists with a voice of acceptance - again. It hasn't helped that T-fans have insisted on 'no-more-PC', I would imagine.
Now we get to say ANYTHING - yippee!
Trump was already known as a supporter of white supremists because of his campaign rhetoric & some of his cabinet choices; and almost everyone has been talking about how he has enable & 'embolded' those types of 'alt-right' extremists - without apology, so far.
Yeah, we have every right to be very very angry with Trump and people who voted for him right now; and I really hope the Dems get those Articles of Impeachment through this time. This is the first time you've heard *me* say that. He should never have been in that office. We were forced to give him several shots; and he's failed miserably and on a daily basis. Worse, he did a lot of it in public on twitter.
Believe it or not, I was hoping for a lot more from him, too. There was a sense of, "Oh well, what can we do? Let's give him a chance... Maybe since he is an outsider, he'll give us a real, 'civilian' assessment of that office, how it works and what we can do to improve it" - since he's such a business wiz. But that hasn't happened. He's proven over & over again that he isn't going to change; and that he only cares about a small segment of the population of this country - while continuing to incite more hate & division among us. That is unacceptible.
Trump may be good in business but he seriously sucks as potus of this land.
Ptosis, included in those nitwits were protestors wearing black (opposite of KKK white) and carrying clubs who rushed the KKK and White Supremacists. I believe the media said those were paid by the ones who want to take down the statues in the Taliban manner. I don't believe they were local. Just sayin'.
I'm not a Trump supporter, but I'm an 8th generation Southerner who deplores the idea of having politically correct ideologues rewrite our history in their own image. I just happen to support Trump on this one.MizBejabbers, I know you don't need it, but here's props for a realistic perspective.
GAI agree with you that there were some protesters in the group opposing the white supremacists who were wearing helmets and carrying sticks. They were the anti-fascists. I'm anti-fascists also, but I'm opposed to violence when protesting. I recognized these protesters right away when I was watching on tv, pointed them out to my husband. However, the white supremacists came armed with automatic weapons and shields. They walked through the streets chanting vicious slogans, went to a black church and marched outside with torches, chanting their Nazi slogans. Went to a Jewish synagogue, marching around with their weapons, chanting their Nazi, slogans. In both cases police had to warn and escort out the people inside these buildings. This had nothing to do with protesting a monument.
The vast majority of the people protesting against this vile action were not armed in any way. Heather Heyer certainly was not. These outside white supremacists groups were armed to the teeth. They have been threatening online for a long time to run over protesters, and one of them finally did it. Surely, we can condemn that. It was in no way commensurate with carrying sticks and wearing helmets.
I'm a many generational southerner also, but I see no need to honor traitors, those who took up arms to destroy our great union and support slavery. I love the South, and I love being southern, but I have no great love for that part of our history. We lost. Let's put it behind us and move on, finally. There's a statue in my state capitol of Nathan Bedford Forrest, co-founder of the KKK. I see absolutely no reason to honor him. True, he represents a part of our history, but a shameful part. None of these people are my heroes. In many countries after a group tries to overthrow the government, the leaders of the opposition are put to death. Lincoln chose not to do that so that our nation could heal. So lets get on with the healing.
Then why do the racists keep crowing about the fact that they have Trump's support? Why didn't Trump immediately condemn the KKK and white supremacists? Why are the majority of the country and leaders worldwide all condemning his response?
"Then why do the racists keep crowing about the fact that they have Trump's support?"
Because they are idiots, as much so as those that crow about Trump being racist.
"Why didn't Trump immediately condemn the KKK and white supremacists?"
You heard it from the horses mouth; because at the time (immediately) the known information was that a counter protest arrived prepared for and actively inciting violence.
"Why are the majority of the country and leaders worldwide all condemning his response?"
Perhaps (who knows their thoughts) because the PC thing to do was to condemn protesters they don't like. Because the concept of free speech is almost unique to America, and even Americans would stifle speech they don't want to hear. Because constitutional rights pale beside hatred and disgust.promisem Two words HE DID... It's people like you that just can't hear what our president says. Because you actually just don't want too...
Short and sweet and spot on. promisem is exactly like the MSM, his version of reality, even if filled with falsehoods and denials, is the only one he will recognize.
The MSM will ignore bad behavior of 'left' groups, just as they will ignore very positive statements or actions by Trump. If it doesn't fit into the narrative, ignore it. If it requires taking things out of context, or fabricating falsehoods altogether to further your agenda, do it.
The MSM in total, from cable news to richest men in the world owned Washington Post and NY Times, cannot be trusted to tell the truth, so it is up to each American to seek out the truth through a variety of news sources, the Wall Street Journal, One America News, Bloomberg... my earnest suggestion would be for any concerned citizen to unplug from what the 'idiot box' is pumping into your brain, and see what real news is out there.
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/news.htmlI'm sorry you didn't listen to his first press conference.
Is racism morally wrong? Please answer this simple question.promisem, yes it is wrong, and so is spreading mistruths. Trump's statements are on Youtube, please listen to them... So odd how you really believe something totally different to what he actually said? Why make such a fool of yourself? I may take the time to produce a transcript of the statement or perhaps you should?
promisem - Why they "keep crowing" It's due to people like you buying into these despicable groups as truth. The truth is very simple, President Trump has no power to stop them from saying just about whatever they choose to say. Anyone with a bit of intelligence would realize this. Just like I could say anything about you, and spread it around. Some that like to believe the worst, would believe every word, without a bit of logical proof...
wilderness- Good point, the left is doing a good job with their lunacy, they just can't comprehend that common sense won out, and will continue to work in our favor. It's actually sad to watch how ridiculous some of the lefts issues are. They seem to flock to one crazy thing to another. Sort of like one that just keeps walking into a wall, over and over. There are just more people with common sense, and people that for 8 years watched the country decline, listen to do nothing president and all his PC BS. We don't need to take to the streets we just have to hope the left keeps doing that for us. LOL
What they need to do is 'realize' and 'make better choices' - LoL! As you can tell by some of the responses you got - no surprise, there is no way in hell any of Trump's most vocally-invested supporters are going to admit anything. (I was especially amused by wilderness's Hillary "would have caused more damage than Trump ever could" thing, ha!)
Nah, politicians like her have been in office since the founding of this religion - I mean, country; and its still here. It will continue to be here after Trump is gone; and would likely have survived a Hillary as POTUS stint, as well.
However, I really don't think Trump supporters need to apologize... They don't answer to me or you. Whether they were wrong or not is beside the point: they voted their conscious, no matter how manipulated & twisted they allowed things to become in their minds. You can also - as willingly - untwist them. I know, I've done it. Its not easy.
Everyone who doesn't think like a T-fan is NOT 'the left'; and 'the right' USED to be a lot less different than the rest of the country than the GOP insists 'their base' is - don't beLIEve them! We're neighbors with the same common goals in life. All this fighting is bcuz the media (and politicians) are always vying for your attention - and it has become harder & harder to get it (which means they make less money & there is so much more competition).
So media outlets 'work for it' by lowering themselves to the standards of a tabloid to get it (cuz FREE SPEECH means that manipulation & lies are okay, apparently). Realize.
I really liked Jimmy Kimmel's response to this on his show the other night - especially the reference to 'Star Wars wallpaper', LoL! Here is a handy link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t16xYMSyMXU
And one last thing for T-fans. I posted this somewhere else; but it really seems to apply here. Take it seriously, brush it off or whatever. This is a copy of a comment I captured this morning; and I think it is a very good representation of what the attitude of 'the majority' of us now is - just fyi. Have you SEEN the freakin documentary about these Charlottesville goons?!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg
Go ahead, tell me about how its all just 'twisted fake news'... this is actualy footage from the events. Plus, I live in Seattle and have seen this crap for myself - more than once. You've seen me complain about it. Yeah, Antifa is AS DANGEROUS - and Trump helped create them; as well as give White Supremists a platform and a voice.
sandflea_zzz
8/16/2017 7:13 AM MST
I listened as they called my President a Muslim.
I listened as they called him and his family a pack of monkeys.
I listened as they said he wasn't born here.
I watched as they blocked every single path to progress that they could.
I saw the pictures of him as Hitler.
I watched them shut down the government and hurt the entire nation twice.
I watched them turn their backs on every opportunity to open worthwhile dialog.
I watched them say that they would not even listen to any choice for Supreme Court no matter who the nominee was.
I listened as they openly said that they will oppose him at every turn.
I watched as they did just that.
I listened.
I watched.
I paid attention.
Now, I'm being called on to be tolerant.
To move forward.
To denounce protesters.
To "Get over it."
To accept this...
I will not.
I will do my part to make sure this great American mistake becomes the embarrassing footnote of our history that it deserves to be.
I will do this as quickly as possible every chance I get.
I will do my part to limit the damage that this man can do to my country.
I will watch his every move and point out every single mistake and misdeed in a loud and proud voice.
I will let you know in a loud voice every time this man backs away from a promise he made to them.
Them. The people who voted for him.
The ones who sold their souls and prayed for him to win.
I will do this so that they never forget.
And they will hear me.
They will see it in my eyes when I look at them.
They will hear it in my voice when I talk to them.
They will know that I know who they are.
They will know that I know what they are.
Do not call for my tolerance. I've tolerated all I can.
Now it's their turn to tolerate ridicule.
Be aware, make no mistake about it, every single thing that goes wrong in our country from this day
forward is now Trump's fault just as much as they thought it was Obama's.
I find it unreasonable for them to expect from me what they were entirely unwilling to give."
This is 7 months in. God only knows what is coming. Possibly staunch supporters are concerned but won't admit it.
Trump is unhinged attacking Jeff Flake, McConnell, McCain, etc.
What's worse is to hear what that racist marcher said about his prized son-in-law Jared. You would think that that would be the wake up call.
Trump like trauma and tragedy."Nah, politicians like her have been in office since the founding of this religion"
You're right - McCarthy and J Edgar Hoover come to mind. Both of whom grossly misused their political power, and in much the same way Clinton did. Although I will say that witch hunts for communists at least had something those that participated thought would be good for the country. Motives might have been good even though actions taken were not; Clinton doesn't even have that.
Is that a reason to put such a person into the highest office in the world? Because they misuse vast political power for personal goals?
promisem- Who do you think you are. Trump won the presidency, and you feel you are somewhat superior to the millions of people that voted for him? How dare you even post something this inflammatory, and I might dd ridiculous. If I might, you need to get over yourself. You have a right to your opinion, however you have no right to insult others. Listen to all three of Trump's statements entirety. "They were wrong. They should admit they were wrong. We will forgive them for their ignorance even though we warned them." You presume a bit too much... Once again how dare you...
Again, very similar to what we see the likes of CNN, MSNBC, the Post and those inside-the-belt in D.C. doing, reinforcing their own beliefs to the point where anyone outside the circle of accepted beliefs is belittled, castigated, or shunned.
Trump is the defacto enemy, and for many, even if he was articulate and well spoken, mild mannered and reclusive, the very fact that he is President... one that is NOT part of their circle, and NOT supportive of their 'progressive' agendas would have them villianizing him every chance they got.Why is any information outside 'the circuit of accepted beliefs' any more credible?
You are most enamored with his not supporting the Progressive Agenda, so what does that make you and Trump?
He will keep it up and WE will get him!!Credence2- Really, just keep doing what you're doing... The left look foolish, and actually there is no other word to use than ridiculous. People such as yourself are helping our cause daily. You see you are an albatross, no one wants what your dealing up... Except the very weak minded, that hope to have others guide them along, ort of like sheep. LOL You just "keep on keepin on."... Really very pitiful. Clue, it's all about transparency, and common sense.
Sharlee, is that so? All the scuttlebutt surrounding Charlottesville, etc is not helping. We WILL prevail as Trump snarls himself in his own web of incompetence and corruption. As of this moment, it is not the Left that is under scrutiny and criticism, unless you subscribe to Fox News. I have not tuned in there lately. I am going to be part and parcel for the discrediting and destruction of the political right, as it is currently structured here in America. It is not always the swiftest that win the race. We are more than patient to wait Trump out.
So, whatever, back to it.....Some on Fox News are speaking out against 45.
Tennessee Republican Senator Bob Corker said today that Trump lacks the "stability" and "competence" to be President.
Many more Republicans are speaking out against Trump except, of course, for his supporters on this forum.He POes too many rank and file GOP, that agenda of his will be dead on arrival, President Dunsel.
They will do everything in their power to impeach him or get him to resign by the end of this year. Otherwise, they will get slaughtered in the 2018 elections.
They will get slaughtered because they are corrupt liars, and the people get it, that is why they swept out the Dems for the last 8 years... and now the voters will turn on anyone who did not support Trump in a Red state/district. Even a purple district.
I can't wait to see the Republican that runs AGAINST Trump's positions... they will be thoroughly defeated in any state where a Republican has a chance of winning (obviously not in states like CA and NY, which I for one hope Trump finds a way of legally cutting them off from the Federal troth lets see how well they do when the nation's taxpayers aren't funding their idiocy).
I didn't insult anyone. You clearly didn't read my post. I said Trump supporters should apologize for their mistake. In what way is that insulting?
promisem - are you such a narcissist that you can't see the very insult in the question you asked? I didn't insult anyone"... You literally insulted anyone that voted for Trump. For one thing you presume too much by even thinking any given person that voted for Trump is disappointed with his first 7 months in office. You sound like a child in the school yard saying "see I told you so". But, in this case you believe it's up to you to ask for an apology from Trump voters that have no problem with his performance. It is clear you do, and that's your right. However, once again, how dare you assume anyone should provide an apology for the man that won, and is our president. And in far as your stupid glib statement "Country over party". You sir do not in any respect know the meaning of that statement! You have, and will follow wherever the hysteria leads you. Good luck with that.
I simply said Trump voters made a mistake, they should apologize and we will forgive them (as any good Christian should).
Anyone who takes it as an insult and spews out a dozen personal attacks in reply has serious anger issues.promisem, It was clearly your intention to insult anyone that voted for Trump. And in regards to the many insults, you should take them to heart. As a rule I don't insult anyone However, your question was targeted to openly insult. Anger issues? No, there are just many that found your question offensive, and many that gave you just what you were looking for. I have followed your comment on many threads. You are very transparent in your efforts to offend others with your very glib comments. And I took note that you mentioned Christianity, I wonder when you might do that. Once again a glib statement to take a jab, and trying to stir controversy. You're a very transparent man, and a bit pitiful too.
I can honestly say that I have never seen such an outpouring of pure hate on HubPages or any other forum.
I realize my post title was provocative. It was meant to get a response and start a blunt debate on why some people still support the racist abomination in the White House.
But get over the venom and learn how to talk like a civilized human being.
Quit watching Sean Hannity. And try going to church.Promisem, You post a comment that you just wanted to point out that those that voted for Trump should apologize, and they would be forgiven. Are we to think you are the all mighty Wizard Of OZ or perhaps a priest, where you have the ability to offer forgiveness? Let's have a look at your latest words of wisdom you posted "why some people still support the racist abomination in the White House. I disagree with you, and I don't appreciate you speaking about the president that way. You actually see no fault making such a ridiculous statement? Yes this debate has become blunt, because you open the door to being blunt. Do you think you have a monopoly on being blunt? To address the hateful comments, you surround your words with calm simple words, and then right in the middle you drop the most hateful statements. Anyone that would take the time to read your comments would see what I mean. You do nothing but post half truths,and how you feel it your right to insult the millions that voted for Trump,that's beyond me... He won, you will have to live with that until he decides to leave or if he is for some reason impeached. I suggest you stop insulting people, and you know what, they will stop putting you in your place.
The problem Prom, is you don't want to accept that people know Trump is flawed, they know he is not the ideal speaker, they know everything about him pretty much, and voted for him anyway and support him still.
Not because he is " a racist abomination" as you put it, but because he is NOT THEM... he is not part of the D.C. Elite, and that elite, along with the media and billionaires like Soros and Bezos that did everything they could to keep him out of the Presidency short of killing him.
Trump is the physical manifestation of over 60 million Americans that feel disenfranchised, trampled upon, and left for dead by their government, by the banks who repossessed their homes, their cars, or cost them their jobs.
Those construction workers that go by new housing developments being put up, by hundreds of workers, none of which speak English, jobs that just a few years back they would have been doing, if their government gave enough of a crap to enforce the laws of the land, and make those mega-million national construction corporations hire Americans rather than illegals.
Those Disney and IBM workers that had to train foreign workers to do their jobs, before they were terminated, because Disney and IBM wanted to save a buck by hiring a foreign worker on a H1-B visa for 9 dollars an hour rather than keep on paying an American worker 20 dollars an hour plus provide benefits to him.
There are over 60 million people who voted for Trump, and almost none of them are racist, and almost none of them trust a damned thing the Politicians in Congress nor the MSM have to say. The problem really isn't with them, its with you.
I dare anyone to explain how they can support a racist as President of the United States.
First, most don't accept your conclusion that he is a racist President.
Second, I would like you to explain the difference between Trump's words as President, and Obama's words (or lack of) where it came to extremists, be they Islamic or White or Black or whatever. Truth is both Presidents remained silent or hedged around saying things, and that could infer support for those actions. Like jihadists all over the world driving over people, or murdering dozens in clubs, and refusing to mention what they associate with.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Er … 05731.html
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matte … ton-rouge/
I have no interest in tolerating any extremist, but I do find it especially dangerous to have a President who through lack of condemnation, and by his very sympathy and support for those groups all but enables them to go out and murder Police... the people who AREN'T extremists, but are the very fabric which holds our society together, whose job it is to protect and serve the community.
I know there are bad cops, but that problem is NOT solved by going out and randomly killing as many police as you can... and it is NOT solved by a President that speaks at a Memorial ceremony for murdered police and talks about the injustices of society and how there are some bad cops out there... that was so totally unbelievable to me, that I will forever consider him the worst President to ever lead this nation, and no matter how bad Trump is, he can never reach the low depths that Obama did.
So I ask you, how could you support a President that seemingly condoned the murder of Police?Most don't accept? That's a surprising claim in light of the nationwide protests, mass resignations of business and other leaders on White House councils and worldwide condemnation.
What's sad is that it has been going on since before the election. His supporters are still in denial. In the case of Charlottesville, his supremacist supporters are wearing hoods and carrying assault rifles.Avoiding the points and the question.
"What is sad is that it has been going on since before the election."
No what is sad is that these things have been going on since before the election, and continue to go on, and yet it doesn't seem to be sinking in to those doing the protesting and whining... there are more than 60 million people that don't care what the protesters or the MSM is whining about, and they never will.
Just like all those who supported Obama never cared what his detractors said about him.
Like you said, the media, and the protestors just keep saying and complaining over and over again about the same things. He Tweets! He Insults! He's a racist! ... yeah, yeah, yeah ... it was all said and resaid before the election, it didn't drive away his supporters then, and it won't now.
That is the reality.
I ask you, what would Obama supporters have thought or done if Congress had impeached him or forced him out of office?
And don't say I can't compare the two... I can.., its quite simple because for every supporter Obama had, there was someone who didn't want him as their President. Just like with Trump now. So what happens to society, to our government, if they impeach him, but tens of millions of people think it is being done unjustly and to take away their voice?
Promisem
I suggest you repent and apologize for posting something of no value and is only intended to piss off people. I think you should apologize and repent for your condescending arrogance to even suggest such a thing. I think you should also apologize and repent for being a typical leftist who is shallow, has double standards and is bathed in hypocrisy. I think you should apologize and repent because you are excellent at pointing out the faults of others perceptions of events, but can't admit to the faults in your perceptions of events. I think it's time for you to apologize and repent. I think I speak on behalf of conservatives everywhere in saying; we will forgive you.It's about time this man gets called out. So, tired of his attitude.
Yes, I have a bad attitude. I believe in country first and party second.
Do you believe in this Nation, or is it your ideology of what it should be, and those who support your beliefs, that you believe in?
Ken, I stated my primary belief -- country first, party second. That's why I will vote for a good Democrat over a bad Republican even though I have mostly voted Republican in my lifetime.
Ken, You can't have any form of discussion with promisem. He is unrealistic, and seems to believe that he can say anything. Even if untrue? Very Odd Man
Funny how right-wing extremists can bury these forums with inflammatory postings, but God forbid if someone else has one.
I promise I will apologize for my original posting if you apologize for supporting an obvious racist.
One last one cuz I think this perspective about Trump supporters having to apologize is good; and I don't want peeps who can't read stuff connected with images to miss it:
What they need to do is 'realize' and 'make better choices' - LoL! As you can tell by some of the responses you got - no surprise, there is no way in hell any of Trump's most vocally-invested supporters are going to admit anything. (I was especially amused by wilderness's Hillary "would have caused more damage than Trump ever could" thing, ha!)
Nah, politicians like her have been in office since the founding of this religion - I mean, country; and its still here. It will continue to be here after Trump is gone; and would likely have survived a Hillary as POTUS stint, as well.
However, I really don't think Trump supporters need to apologize... They don't answer to me or you. Whether they were wrong or not is beside the point: they voted their conscious, no matter how manipulated & twisted they allowed things to become in their minds. You can also - as willingly - untwist them. I know, I've done it. Its not easy.
Everyone who doesn't think like a T-fan is NOT 'the left'; and 'the right' USED to be a lot less different than the rest of the country than the GOP insists 'their base' is - don't beLIEve them! We're neighbors with the same common goals in life. All this fighting is bcuz the media (and politicians) are always vying for your attention - and it has become harder & harder to get it (which means they make less money & there is so much more competition with the Internet).
So media outlets 'work for it' by lowering themselves to the standards of a tabloid to get it (cuz FREE SPEECH means that manipulation & lies are okay, apparently). Realize.
I really liked Jimmy Kimmel's response to this on his show the other night - especially the reference to 'Star Wars wallpaper', LoL! Here is a handy link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t16xYMSyMXU Also, have you SEEN the freakin documentary about these Charlottesville goons?!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg
Don't tell me about how its all just 'twisted fake news'... this is actual footage from the events. Plus, I live in Seattle and have seen this crap for myself - more than once. You've seen me complain about it. Yeah, Antifa is AS DANGEROUS - and Trump helped create them; as well as give White Supremists a platform and a voice.Imagine yourself at a Neo-nazi rally trying to argue with them about their policy positions. I think it would look a lot like the debate looks here, with a few minor exceptions about Jews not replacing us.
Why should they apologize? They got what they wanted, the heat was taken off the investigation into Trump and White House ties to Russia. I think they've outsmarted all the protesters on the other side. What I don't like is that true Southern history is at stake here, and the media wants to help whitewash it.
Trump supporters focus on the positive things Trump focuses on. Who else is focusing on the positive things Trump and his supporters are focusing on. Anyone in the Government? WHO!???
Trump supporters are patriotic conservative citizens who accurately comprehend that Donald Trump is the only one who really cares about freedom and justice for all, despite the lies of the paid-off media, the protests of the unreal plants/actors and the destructive actions of real opposition which is opposing for the wrong reasons. If we do not get behind Trump, the country will suffer. Unless you like the implementation of world/global governmental systems, which obviously, many do.Kathryn L Hill, well said.I agree too... Just as Ethan Hire has. However, I see promisem is thanking him for whatever... Not sure this man seems to think he not only deserves thanks for what he writes, but also whatever anyone else writes????
The arrogance? I'm not certain I understand what would compel someone to believe they had the right to demand an apology or that they were in a position where others had to ask their forgiveness. Had Hillary been elected I'd have choked it down and gone on about my business without consistently whining about every move she made as if it were somehow the fault of those who elected her. But, that's just me. Maybe it's a level of maturity and insight one evolves to with age. Maybe not.
Perhaps it's your ability to ignore the lies Trump tells, or that you voted for him. Either is a mistake of gigantic proportions.
Well, if we don't want a president who lies we were in a bit of a pickle since both candidates were pathological liars.
The arrogance and egotism is far greater among the people who voted for Trump despite many warnings and continue to support him through multiple investigations, race riots, White House chaos, threats of nuclear war, etc., etc., all within 6 months of getting elected.
From the reaction here, they will never admit a terrible mistake that is doing great damage to the country. They instead find twisted ways to somehow blame Hillary. Now that's sad.Let me ask you something, that hopefully you can answer honestly...
Did you see Trump as bad/non-Presidential/racist prior to the election?
And a second question.
Has your opinion/impression of him changed drastically from when you voted in November?I can answer that, Ken. Before he was even running for president I suspected he was an arrogant lying buffoon and had no business bringing his racist ideas into the White House. Little did I know he would be even worse than I suspected. I'll give you the same challenge I proposed to Jack Lee. For every lie Hillary told I'll match it with two--or even three--lies from Trump. Do you dare take the challenge? Jack chickened out, but perhaps you're ready to do so.
Ken, before he was president he
1. He led a campaign against the Central Park 5. Even after they were exonerated, he said they had something to do with it.
2. In the 1970s, he and his father discriminated against Black people in renting properties. "C" was put by their names. There was a court case about this.
3. The birther thing with all the lies: a) someone was in Africa digging up all the dirt, b) the birth certificate was forged, c) post election: Obama tapped his phones in Trump Tower, ad infinitum
4. Grab the women by the p*zzy!
5. Judge Curiel could not properly try his case because he is "Mexican."
6. “I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it. The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.” (USA Today, May 20, 1991)
7. For more DJT quotes on "The Blacks!" http://gawker.com/the-collected-quotes- … 1719961925
BTW, he has a wanted ad out. He's hiring minorities to hold signs @ his Tuesday Phoenix rally. Pay - $10 per hour. Fake supporters!
He is despicable; however, I am glad he is president. It allows us to have a conversation we might otherwise not have had.
We, Americans, need to look introspectively.And unfortunately, the alternative was Clinton, who had a ton of baggage of her own, who sold out American interests for her own profit. Clinton was the poster child for the corruption and collusion in D.C. and was no savior of the people by any means.
So we had the absolute worst example of corruption in D.C. on the one side. And the total anti-establishment crude candidate on the other.
To the point of my question, most people who felt he would make a bad President, haven't changed their mind about it. And those that voted for him, also haven't changed their minds over it.
The people who really seem to be going bonkers, are the ones who never wanted him as President, and they keep getting more expressive and more insulting in dealing with anyone who doesn't see it the same way.
Promisem has given example of this in this thread. "If you support him you are a racist KKK loving pig! How do you live with yourself!"
It gets old, the hysterics of the media, of the hollyweirdos, and the inept politicians in Congress really are ensuring that he gets re-elected, because the majority of America is so sick of hearing it, and so want to shut these people up.
If he runs again that is. No certainty there, a variety of things could happen to keep that from occurring. Too many public personalities are calling out for him to be killed (Johnny Depp, Madonna, and many more) that its bound that there will be those that try.There are many Republicans voicingt their regret.
I've made no secret that I didn't want HRC to be president. The point is, "She ain't and he is." He is accountabale to act like a president. I blame the Republicans for letting DJT raid their party. I blame the Democratics for having a narrow view of the type of person they want in their party.
I have emailed Dr. Russell Moore several times to thank him for his faithfulness to the Lord's Word. He was threatened by several pastors of large churches to withdraw support from his Ethics branch of the Southern Baptist Conference.
I blame both parties that they have many vocal people with extremes views on both ends of the spectrum.
Ken, those are good questions. I didn't have a strong impression one way or another about Trump as a candidate at the beginning of last year. I did think other candidates were more qualified.
Back then, I hoped either Kasich or Romney would get the nomination because I didn't like Clinton.
As the year went on, I became more and more concerned about Trump. Since the election, my concerns have gone way up. I've never been scared of any previous President, either Republican or Democrat. I am scared of Trump.
NO ONE should have to apologize for choosing who they wanted too,i didnt like obama should every obama follower apologize to me?NO,because thats there perogative.Freedom of rights and freedom of views is how i see it. Its funny how Liberals claim to be so open minded but tell them something they dont like/dont wanna hear and you are banished and tuned out,its about time we open our minds and our hearts to change.
You are free to express any view and choose anyone for President.
But the choice is inexcusable when that President threatens nuclear war, equates heavily armed KKK to anti racists, fires half of his staff, alienates his own party and is already under multiple investigations for collusion with Russia. His voters were warned.
They chose him anyway, and now the entire country is facing the consequences with more chaos in Washington than every before.
Got to thinking about your question. Would it not be more appropriate for anyone that voted for Hillary to own up to the fact that they voted for a woman that is, and has been corupt all of her adult life,a mere grifter. A woman that actually should be in jail due to her conduct while Secretary of State. Her pay for play scams were notorious. Not to mention the illegal server in her home, where she conducted government business from. Anyone else would have been in jail. These are facts, and it's very apparent Dem's will not own up to. But never the less facts.
Hopefully no one will try to argue the fact that my comments are factual. I am so tired of dealing with people that choose to make excuses defending this grifter, and her husband. My God, wake up! No apology necessary, just no ridiculous comments - PleaseWhat was she convicted of now? I can't recall.
LOL. Would that the left could remember that sentiment when attacking Trump.
Here is jon stewart calling out CNN for fake news ...
https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark … n-stewart/
I find myself becoming more and more angry with those who still support Trump. When my senator Bob Corker finally spoke out against Trump recently saying that he might be leading us into WWII, I wanted to yell at him, "What part of this did you not know before? Hasn't he shown us all along what he is like and why have you been aiding and abetting him for so long?" So maybe I do need an apology--or maybe I still need to learn a bit about forgiveness.
25th amendment!
Now that they know a mistake has been made, WHY can't they man-up and correct it.I am seeing more and more mention of the 25th Amendment. When Trump was elected, I thought there was not a chance he would be removed in that manner. I also didn't imagine he would be as blatantly crazy as he is, and I've always thought he was not mentally healthy. Now, more and more people are seeing it. The White House really does operate like an adult day care. Corker was merely speaking the truth, a truth that many others in elected and appointed positions within the government are seeing and talking about among themselves.
The fact that elected politicians will not speak up is frightening. They are not concerned about the welfare of the country. They are concerned about getting re-elected. That means they don't need their jobs either.
Not trying to be sarcastic but what should our representative's speak up about? Its seems the President is getting a lot done? And has been keeping his promises. Not all but many. There is no cause to impeach a president that was voted in by the people. I for one would be unhappy if President Trump was not fulfilling his promises, I would be even more unhappy if he was brought up on an impeached charge, due to sore losers. Time to move on, and do some research on some of the very positive things he is accomplishing. I will not fall into listing accomplishments. And I say this due to the fact I have long realized one can't change another persons opinion, when they are hell bent on not listening.
You are right about people's opinions Sharlee. Trump's 30+% is strong in their resolve.
Dianetrotter, I am not sure if I would recommend believing the polls. The night he won, the polls to dictate, he could never win.... The polls said he had a zero chance at gathering the electoral vote. Actually the polls indicated he could never win at the very beginning of his run. It seems odd that so many just can't see that these polls re not accurate? After they have failed to indicate any given true outcome. We that support the president are very strong in our resolve. We just are very common sense folk. I might add we don't care for egg on the face, as those that appear to not realized that the polls are skewed. Although it is evident that those on the left, move on very quickly. Not caring or taking note that they were wrong. It seems to me, they can be led around very easily by fake news.
I don't know about the people on the left. I didn't want HRC to be president. I didn't vote for either of them.
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Tennessee Republican Sen. Bob Corker, secretly known as the “Senate’s $50 million-dollar man,” has decided to not run for re-election rather than face the continued exposure by Infowars.com of how he become known as the Senate’s “$50 million-dollar man” in a series of shady deals that merit serious Department of Justice investigation.
Over the years, Corker has become one of the Senate’s most wealthy members by tilting public policy to favor his Wall Street and big bank buddies, while criticizing the very hedge funds he used to short the stock of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – the two Government Sponsored Entities (GSE) that are the backbone of the middle-income home mortgage market in the United States.
In the Senate, Corker is known for his hypocrisy, having profited from a strategy to short Fannie and Freddie in 2007 and 2008, while maintaining an investment portfolio that has invested as much as $50 million in the same hedge funds Corker attacks as “vultures” corrupting Washington.”
In 2006, Henry Luken, a long-time Corker business associate and political backer, acquired from the then-Chattanooga mayor Bob Corker tens of millions of dollars in risky real estate holdings that were headed underwater, providing Corker the capital he needed to complete his successful run for the Senate.
After lending his campaign $4.2 million from the Luken transaction into his Senate campaign, giving Corker virtually all the money he spent in the final weeks of the campaign, Corker narrowly defeated his Democratic challenger Harold E. Ford, Jr., 51 percent to 48 percent, outspending Ford by $18.6 million to $15.6 million.
According to his Senate financial disclosures, upon his arrival in the Senate ,, Corker began using the proceeds from the Luken transaction to shift tens of millions of dollars to a series of hedge funds, including Chattanooga-based Pointer Management Company, whose founder, Thorpe McKenzie, was a political supporter of Corker and an investor in Luken’s companies.
Infowars.com has previously published a copy of a compliance “Adherence Letter” authored by Pointer Management, LLC, dated September 30, 2008, making it clear Pointer was taking a short position on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by buying derivatives, specifically credit default swaps, that would generate for Pointer a handsome profit, provided the share prices of the two GSEs went down.
Corker’s Senate financial disclosures indicate that after his successful 2006 Senate campaign, Corker invested between $8.5 million into hedge funds, including between $5 million and $25 million that he invested in Pointer. Corker’s Pointer investment profited him a total of between 3.9 million and $15.5 million over the next nine years.
Consider the many different estimates of Corker’s wealth in the public record since he was elected to the U.S. Senate.
In 2006, after winning his first election for the Senate, Forbes reported Corker “boasts an estimated $64 million to $236 million fortune, according to the financial disclosure he filed to the Senate.”
Then, on Dec. 14, 2014, the Hill reported that Corker, after filing 83 amendments to his financial disclosure reports dating back to his arrival to the Senate in 2007, Corker reported his net worth at only $18 million.
In 2014, OpenSecrets.org listed the “average estimate” of Corker’s net worth at $45.8 million, with the minimum net worth estimate at $13.9 million, and the maximum net worth estimate at $76.9 million.
On Aug. 25, 2014, the Tennessean reported Corker held assets in 2013 worth between $19.02 million and $89.7 million, based on a Senate financial disclosure form filed that month, compared with the $18.67 million to $91.55 million disclosed on his 2012 form.
The truth is that Corker is one of the wealthiest members of the House of Representatives, although he has always been evasive about just how rich he truly may be.
But even as he was being considered in May 2016 to be tapped as Donald Trump’s vice-presidential candidate, Corker was dogged by continuing FBI and SEC investigations into his finances, as well as a history of having to refile his Congressional financial disclosure forms after admitting he had failed to list dozens of business dealings and hundreds of stock trades, resulting in millions of dollars in previously unreported or under-reported income.
“Federal investigators are looking into possible financial irregularities involving CBL & Associates Properties, Inc., a Chattanooga, Tennessee-based real estate investment trusts that owns or manages dozens of shopping centers and malls across the country,” Politico reported on May 31, 2016.
“Corker has bought and sold millions of dollars in CBL stock since he was elected to the Senate in 2006, but failed to disclose several of those disclosures,” Politico continued. “Now Corker finds himself ensnared in a federal probe.”
A close examination of his financial history makes clear Corker has aggressively taken advantage of the Congressional privilege absolving him from criminal responsibility for inside trading, in what Corker has described as “day-trading.”
Here was a typical pattern of Corker’s CBL trades that reeks suspiciously of the type of insider information that would have landed an ordinary citizen behind bars in a federal prison:
Corker evidently purchased between $2 and $10 million of CBL stock just prior to a July 2010 announcement that Swiss-headquartered UBS bank (a bank with a prominent presence in Chattanooga that rented space in a Corker-owned building) was upgrading its CBL rating from “sell” to “neutral.”
Less than a month later, Corker unloaded between $3 and $12 million of his CBL stock, days before UBS returned the CBL rating to “sell.”
In the interim, CBL’s stock price leapt by more than 35%, from $11.83 per share to $14.66, netting Corker some $1.87 million in slightly more than three weeks.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Nov. 3, 2015, that Corker purchased between $1 million and $5 million in 2011 and sold them five months later for a 42 percent gain – trades Corker only disclosed after questions from the WSJ about “apparent discrepancies” in his Senate financial-disclosure reports – trades that occurred after Corker made a pair of purchases of CBL stock in the name of his daughters that the WSJ estimated netted him more than $1 million.
CBL has “given generously” to Corker’s political campaigns, with CBL executives, directors, and spouses contributing more than $88,706 to his campaign committee and PAC since Corker’s 2006 run for the Senate.
By Dr. Corsi: Washington DC investigative journalist
* https://www.infowars.com/heres-why-sen- … om-senate/
Let's see what happens with the Ukraine thingy! It's interesting watching this unfold. If there was a "deep state" looking into Trump's campaign, what do we call this Ukraine/Biden deal?
That's not going to happen, but I'd really like to see them stop defending every crazy thing he does. Not all who voted for Trump do support all these crazy things he does, though, and those are the ones I'm counting on to show a little common sense. The drop in his approval rating indicates that may be happening.
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrat … nref=storyJo Miller - Please take time to check his facebook page. He has more supporters than he had during the election. It's pretty clear if there was an election today, he would win. There are just more people that don't buy into flowery liberal ideals. We voted for change, transparency, and we could care less about the fact President Trump does not give eloquent speeches. Those speeches were pretty, but the last 8 years were disgusting to anyone with any common sense. So, I would not count on anything... He won did he not?
Had Clinton been elected we'd be seeing the same thing. One side expecting the other to regret their vote.The other, bewildered by that expectation.
I think people simply like to lay blame at the wrong foot. It's so much easier than facing the truth.LOL! Like it's easy to get the truth from Trump! Do you actually see him as an honest person? I mean really??
About as honest as the masses of people (and media) that use loaded words, spun rhetoric and half stories to promote hatred without knowledge.
Of course, that's not saying much, is it?Randy - I think he is brutally honest. That is what gets him in trouble. You just don't want to hear what he has to say. He certainly bursted many dead heads bubbles. Wake up we were had for many years by crooks in Washington ... LOL
I actually agree with you. The division in this country has reached the point where a Clinton victory would have led to plenty of outrage and opposition from the right.
But a Trump victory is different in another way. Even though I'm not a Clinton fan, she is far more mentally stable than Trump. If you have any doubt, look up Senator Bob Corker's comment today that Trump lacks the stability to be President.You seem to think that what POLITICIANS say about Trump matters.
Congress has been at an all time low in trust/believability for years, in the single digit numbers. People KNOW that there are no more corrupt, despicable people on the planet than the McCain, Graham, Pelosi, Corker types. These politicians that have been there for a decade, or three, are the problem... the more they speak out against Trump, the more people will believe in him.
If you read some real news, not the 'news in a bubble' that the likes of CNN present, you would know that no one has turned from Trump. People are watching how vicious the media and corrupt politicians in D.C. attack him, and it is garnering him more support, not less.
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-worl … -straying/
This has always been, and always be, the Establishment, the billionaires and trillion dollar corporations, the thirty year Congressmen&women and decades long bureaucrats who have been in the halls of D.C. forever VS. the American people.
Those 60+ million people who voted for him get that... and they aren't going to buy into the lies of the corrupt politicians or the media that colludes with them.I think they matter because they are in charge of running the country. They spend our tax dollars and produce the legislation.
You might want to look at the polls to see the dramatic decline among his supporters, including polls produced by Republican polling firms.You mean like the polls that gave Clinton an overwhelming win just days before she lost? Polls like that?
The polls did not give her an overwhelming win just days before the election. The margin shrank dramatically after Comey released his letter.
And of course Trump had plenty of help from Putin, which polls couldn't track.I wonder, since we are working towards a global, one world government, could we have Putin be the first President of the World?
Since he clearly controls the outcome of American elections, he should be able to easily win, with America and Russia voting for him on the global scene... that would be like carrying CA and NY in our national elections, he'd hardly need anything else to fall his way.LOL Not a single shred of evidence has been produced showing Putin did anything - anything at all - that affected even a single vote. Yet the story continues, no doubt till eternity. Comical, it is.
You keep saying this, but the CIA certainly believe they have the evidence. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/us/t … ennan.html
CIA, Congress, D.C. period, all part of the same corrupt establishment...
Those are the people you are going to believe about Trump?
Fine... but all those that voted for Trump put him there to put a stop to all of them, and the MSM as well. I know, a foolish notion that one man can make a difference, even if made President, but still... the point is that nothing any of them say about Trump will be bought by the people who support him.
You would think, after well over a year of trying to destroy the man and get Americans to hate him, they would realize that at least a third of the country isn't buying it, and another third doesn't give a good crap.
Well the 63 million who voted for Clinton would not agree and furthermore the number of Trump supporters is getting much lower. He plays to his base. He's safe with them but how many of the 60 million votes do you figure were independents, democrats, or newbies? How many do you think will support him in 2020 if he makes it that far? He better kick in the voter suppression efforts real fast.
Some at Fox News are looking at him out of the corner of their eye. I watch The Five. I love those ladies!
How do you know the number of Trump supporters is getting smaller, and not growing?
You don't know, and you won't know, until he runs for re-election, IF he runs for re-election. Any polls, any articles or reports that say otherwise are just as accurate and useful as the ones that said Clinton would win in a landslide, they are total rubbish not worth the time it took you to read them.If he runs again? He's already running. It's the only thing he does relatively well. He can't govern so he will continue to divide and ultimately that will do him in, IMO. His support is wavering and sure things can change between now and then but it won't because this clown cannot change.
His support isn't wavering, that is pipe dreams and BS from those who have been against him the whole time.
I was listening to NPR today while driving, they had on a woman who spent the past few weeks traveling all over the country talking to 'regular folk' what she found was not one person that supported him before thinks any less of him now.
The very people who voted for him despise and distrust the politicians in Congress and the MSM that supports them. That is why Trump is there, and there numbers have not dwindled, at all.Yet another thing we have talked about that you keep misunderstanding, Ken... I'm not sure why this is so damn impossible for you to grasp, but I'll try again:
Those of us who don't support Trump KNOW WHY you do... And we DON'T DISAGREE with your reasoning nearly as much as you insist.
Its just that you can't get what you want with the person you chose - because he's inexperienced, unwilling to listen to anyone else BUT his stubborn supporters that he likes to keep holding rallies for, and he's getting awfuly tired of bucking the current.
We understand why you are unwilling to bend where Trump is concerned.
But, in case you haven't noticed - that 'stubborness' is going both ways, now. I heard some politician talking about the GOP and Dems BOTH in discussions about 'censuring' our potus - cuz no, he doesn't represent the majority of us.
He's obviously tired. If you gave a crap about him or this country - you'd let him go. He tried. He shook up the place. That in and of itself is an accomplishment. It is highly-unlikely that 'we the people' are going to let our politicians get away with nearly as much, anymore (and we'll be smarter about 'what being manipulated' looks like in the news).
I, for one, am seriously pushing for #ProtestTheVote - voting nothing but 3rd party next potus election -
to give them ALL a kick in the pants after Elizabeth Warren's latest 'liberal speech' rejecting moderates. Its time our politicians got a clue and figured out that Americans are beyond sick of being jerked between one extreme and the other.I agree with you Misfit. I pray that DJT's family will see that he get medical attention. I'm serious about this. He doesn't have the temperament to be president. Stress will kill anyone. He doesn't eat properly. He doesn't get proper sleep. He pisses everyone off and everyone pisses him off.
He could actually stroke out or have a heart attack in office. His only medical report was from a coo-coo whose best exam days have long past.
If Elizabeth Warren is DNC nominee, they can forget it!For a change a well written post, without numerous picks, I appreciate that.
And I understand where you are coming from.
The dilemma here is that there is no easy way out of this situation, its not like Congress can just throw him out, and its not like he is going to step down anytime soon, you have to give the man some credit... he is trying to do the very things he promised to do... really the first President in more than two decades that has done so.
TPP gone... the Wall, under construction... the ACA, he tried, but he can't force Congress to do their jobs, and Congress as you know answers to Big Pharma and the Insurance companies, NOT the people, so that disaster will never be fixed or repealed to the benefit of the people.
It would be great if we had Romney, or Rice, or a handful of other people who have the experience and the decency to do the job right... but those people didn't run, and I don't blame them, it really does take someone not quite right in the head, or who is already part of the corruption to want that job.
Thirty years ago, when there was some honesty and decency remaining throughout Congress and D.C. a good man could survive there (IE - Carter, a good and decent man, but not a good leader of the nation)...
But today, it almost takes someone like Trump, or a willing front man like Obama, to do the job. When you understand the depths of corruption, collusion, and lies in D.C. you can't be a decent human being and go along with it... that's how I know people like McCain and Pelosi are some of the most vile people alive, they thrive there, lies flow out of them like water over Niagara Falls... thirty years and counting...So you don't like lies from Pelosi and McCain but they're okay when coming from Trump in greater numbers than any other politician in history. Okay...
This simply shows that tribal loyalty is everything in the US. Trump has achieved nothing. None of his campaign promises have been fulfilled, partly because he has zero political skills and partly because his objectives would be disastrous for the US.
How can a Republican President acheive nothing when Republicans control all three branches of the executive? It is an astonishing failure.
But as Trump said 'I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody" and not "lose any voters".
Trump knows his base.You miss the point. This isn't tribal loyalty. If it were, how do you think so many disparate groups chose to vote for him and against Hillary? I don't think you've been listening to much of what anyone says on the subject of Trump, other than what those who say what you want to hear say. As you said, the House and Senate are controlled by Republicans. What we have seen for years is Washington pandering, getting little accomplished and spending a great deal of taxpayer money in the process. The average Trump supporter wants change in Washington. First, and foremost. It has nothing to do with confederate era memorabilia. It has nothing to do with fringe elements. It has everything to do with government accountability.
I don't know if those who cannot stomach the idea of Trump refuse to understand the underlying current which swept so many into the river or if they just don't care. It's as if they are staring at the occasional branch floating by in the rushing water yet blind their vision to the roiling waters we have chosen to attempt to tame. I don't see Trump as the raft to cling to through the rapids but I do see his election as an indication of the fact that more and more understand we are drowning in a river of government mismanagement reaching its hundred year flood mark; without the benefit of taking into account any of the recommendations of the core of engineers (the constitution framers). A river of greed and avarice which will drown the common citizen if left unchecked. I don't see the current situation as the fault of 'we the people' other than the fact it represents a need to reevaluate our system of government and each year we refuse to the fault will lie more and more at our feet.
Trump, for better or worse, is little more than the vehicle which is allowing us to more clearly see the problems within our government. It is up to us (American citizens, not foreign observers) to work together but we cannot work together as long as so many ignore the reasons so many voted for him. Accusing those who support Trump of white nationalism is no more accurate than labeling all Democrats socialists. Both are attempts to marginalize the opinions of hundreds of thousands of American citizens.How can a Republican controlled gov't be an astonishing failure? Same way Trump bankrupt a casino.
promisem, no one can say what the right would have done if Clinton won. I can say we on the right did not cause any problems at her few rallies. We do not show up and promote violence at a protest of white nationalist where it is clear would break out into violence., and lead to more conflict and hate. And actually make the situation worse. We are not violent, we have used our vote to further our need for change.
The hate from left-wingers is what's visible in these comments. Also, their mainstream media is exposed for the hate if manifests each day. Look at recent elections to see where the American people stand.
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He acts like a little bully kid.
Jared and Ivanka are hiding. I'm sure Melania wishes she had stayed in NY with her son.
promisem, Party first? I voted for change, I voted for transparency. I voted to get corruption out of Washington.... You may not like what Trump says, because it's truth. I don't vote party. The choice was simple, a known crook that was out for herself with PC ideals that make me sick or someone that was not political, and had an agenda of change. I don't ever follow down a path that is already known to be strewn with lies, and vile corruption. This is something unintelligent sheep do, they walk right into slater. Your glib statements are just that - glib
T-fans 'we hate PC' is part of the reason why this rhetoric (and white supremists) has gotten so bold & disgusting; and its why tensions among groups has been so hyped to the breaking point. Sorry, I have no respect for people who think being politically-correct is the equivelant of being sh*t on.
I have voted for many more Republicans than Democrats in my lifetime.
That's because I have an open mind and put country above party instead of the other way around.
I don't know why I should apologize for voting for Trump. As far as I'm concerned, he's doing a great job. He's breaking down the Washington business-as-usual attitude and going after anyone who goes after him. White people in this country have been getting the shaft for too long. Everything is about immigrants and black people and latino people and how they're not getting their rights. What about our rights? I hear all these complaints about racism, but I don't see any of it where I live. Climate change? The climate seems pretty much the same where I am. It's all liberal smoke and mirrors.
He is doing a wonderful job... he is transparent, and we actually finally have a voice in government.
Sychophantastic, well-stated. I have been saying all of that for years now. I didn't vote for Trump, but there are many issues in which I agree with Trump.
The most unnerving thing about Trump's election is the people who still defend him. That is more frightening than he is. OK, you voted for the wrong person. It happens. I stood in the rain to re-elect Nixon the first time I voted! But to continue to excuse his behavior much less defend him? That's beyond the pale.
Kathleen, we have not witnessed beyond the pale ... yet!
"OK, you voted for the wrong person. "
No, you did. Given the only two useful choices for your vote, you made the wrong one.
Funny how everyone has an opinion, isn't it? And even more so how those opinions are expressed as fact ("you voted for the wrong person").Over 60 million people and growing Kathleen, I predict he will have millions more voting for him in 2020 than in 2016.
The why is obvious, if the criminal politicians and their supporting media are out to destroy Trump, then he must be doing something right. People don't trust Congress, not for decades now. And fewer and fewer people trust the lying propaganda machines otherwise known as 'news'.Kathlen , Please, Please listen to all three statements. You can't make an educated opinion without listening to all of what he said...
Rest in Peace, former Pres. Nixon. He did do many things right. Peace!!
Wilderness, my friend! Why was affirmative action created? Why are there few women above the Glass Ceiling. My friends of European descent are the best-we seek to eradicate the scourge which has kept mankind divided. In that, many of us are like you. Holding on to that past only creates pain. Symbols, words, actions-historical or not, have power of oppression and/or elevation. Some things are subtle and we don't even know we do it (Visit and watch Jane Elliot's Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes Exercise.) It's a good example for why children of color in certain subjects eventually lag behind and struggle to catch up with their peers because of subtle long held biases which are institutionalized.
Removing the monuments that remind people that they were at one point not valued as human beings is not only right to do, it is just to do. Washington and Jefferson were involved with slavery, but they both wanted to end it. Lee was a rebel against what they built, and he supported a system which wanted to break up that union."My friends of European descent are the best-we seek to eradicate the scourge which has kept mankind divided."
That's nice, but there isn't a country on earth that has had the problem of racism that the US has had. And there isn't a nation on earth that has done as much as the US has to end it. Natural - no other country is the melting pot that we are.
While you may find a vast difference between a slave owner fighting to break up a nation (Washington) and a slave owner fighting to break up a nation (Lee) I have a hard time with the idea. That one fought on the winning side and one on the losing is not a reason to decide that no monument should exist to him.
Ken, what makes you believe we are working towards a one world government? Did Trump tell you that?
It is what some of the smartest minds (IE - Einstein) have been advocating since the outset of the Nuclear age.
Unfortunately while the first initial steps were taken with the best of ideas in mind towards that end (IE - U.N.) the effort faltered and was corrupted a few short years after it began.
Today we have a semblance of that in the form of a global economy with the (WTO, WB, IMF) international entities overseeing its direction. However this is not at all something that serves the best interests of humanity IMO.
We have corporations that have become more powerful than nation states (even nations like America and Russia) and international banks that ultimately hold power over all... this is far from a egalitarian future where all of humanity moves forward, this is the ultimate separation between the elite/wealthy/ruling class and the other 99%.
This is why we have seen stagnant wages, lessening of benefits, a pooling of wealth among fewer and fewer people as more and more people fall out of the 'middle class' and are pooled in one great 'poor and powerless' class.
This is going to increase in earnest as populations shift into the 'Western World' from non-western nations by the tens of millions, in a matter of a decade we will likely have civil and social breakdowns across the globe that will eventually lead to a 'one world' form of rule, where the interests of the corporations are served and the health and wellbeing of the masses are ignored.
Oh wait... that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it?Einstein is not around Ken, whether you noticed or not. And he was not 100% correct on all of his theories either. Good try though.
I'm sorry it was too comprehensive and complicated a response, I realize some people are only good with one liners and anything beyond KISS is too burdensome for them to be bothered with.
You're correct Ken, you are way too intelligent for me to converse with. You may even be smarter than Trump, and definitely more truthful, whatever your truth actually is.
Washington allowed a black regiment in the revolution, led by Hamilton-Lee thought Blacks might kill them. Big difference. Blacks fighting for the Revolution were freed. Not Lee. Traitor! Plain and simple. Only Whites created equal in Lee's world.
Lee was a traitor...to his enemies. To his own country he was faithful.
Washington was a traitor...to his enemies in the mother country of England. To his own country seceding from England he was faithful.
Guess who lost and who won defines a traitor.It was popularly called the confederate states of America. That you choose to not acknowledge that is no different than the English refusing to acknowledge the country composed of 13 states in Washington's day.
Happens every time force is used to change a country, whether by seceding or simply a coup, doesn't it?The "you" was hardly alone. No other country recognized the confederacy as a country. It did get recognized by Britain and France for "belligerent status".
Any group of people can claim country status. That doesn't mean they have a country.
The confederacy would have been a country if it won the war and got recognition. It did not.
As Wilderness said, they established a country, a ruling body. The Confederacy was a self-proclaimed nation of 11 secessionist slave-holding states (originally only 7), which the United States refused to recognize as an independent country.
Southern leaders like John C. Calhoun and Jefferson Davis argued that the Constitution was essentially a contract between sovereign states with the contracting parties retaining the inherent authority to withdraw from the agreement.
Northern leaders headed by newly elected President Abraham Lincoln insisted the Constitution was neither a contract nor an agreement between sovereign states. It was an agreement with the people, and once a state enters the Union, it cannot leave the Union.
There was no mention in the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution that they could not secede, nor did they conclusively guarantee states such a right, nor did they refer to the states as sovereign entities.
The word sovereignty does not actually appear anywhere in the text of the Constitution. The Civil War resolved the Constitution's meaning.
The war was more over the rights of those states to form their own nation, their own independence, than anything else.
Slavery has in today's rewritten history become the primary reason for the war, but the two parts of the USofA were very different... the North was industrialized and slave free, the South was mostly an agriculture based plantation system not so different from what the 'fly over' states became later in America's history, with lower population levels and an economy based on produce/farming.
History is written by the winners.Very good, Ken. That is a fairly-accurate, generalized account of 'what happened' to the country - and your point about white supremacy would be what, exactly?
I wasn't discussing that topic, so what is your point on that matter?
I actually see a somewhat similar correlation between what occurred in the separation of states that led to the Civil War, to what recently occurred after Trump was elected.
We have California, which has by far outpaced most of the rest of the nation in terms of accepting illegal immigrants. California has a population of almost 40 million... a quarter of which are illegal immigrants or recently legalized immigrants. CA chose to grant them the right to drive, have a license, collect social supports (Welfare, foodstamps, housing), vote in their elections, etc.
Trump ran on a campaign that was counter to everything CA has been doing, there was a percentage of CA's population that cried out for succession... very similar to what occurred when Lincoln became President, he ran on a platform that was counter to the Southern way of life, their existence depended on the ability to produce crops like cotton and tobacco, and they depended on slave labor to reap and sow those crops. Lincoln wanted to put an end to that, just as Trump wants to put an end to the flow of illegal immigrants entering into our country.
Politics... different beliefs... different economic realities... and hence conflict."I wasn't discussing that topic, so what is your point on that matter?"
Well, since that is pretty much the topic that the rest of us are discussing - and the reason why the asker of this question thinks Trump supporters should apologize and repent...
California's reaction was not every anti-Trump person's (or anti-Trump state's) reaction - anymore than 'all' of us threatening to leave the country if he was elected, was.
"Politics... different beliefs... different economic realities... and hence conflict."
Very good again, I think you MIGHT be finally catching on.
This country does not run on one-sided beliefs that belong to a small group of people (okay, it does - but we like to think that it doesn't, ha!). It belongs to a very diverse group of people, most of whom have been excluded from the National conversation since extremists on both sides have been fighting - while the rest of us moderates & centrists struggle to keep this country together.
Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe its so divided that it is impossible to unite us, anymore - short of another catastrophic event like 911. THAT is *my* fear... that the shadow government is setting us up for another catastrophe like that in order to 'unite' us again; while diverting our attention to keep themselves in power. It is the way 'the powers that be' keep us in check; and they ALWAYS have - by keeping us divided and fighting.
I would freakin BEG Trump supporters to stop if I thought for a moment it would help - please stop jumping through their hoops. I hear so many of you claim that these arguments are new; but they are NOT. They are all as old as the hills - rehashed AGAIN because they WORK.
As I note above, no other country on the planet recognized the confederacy.
Actually Britain and France did, to the degree that they traded with, aided and weaponized the Confederacy and allowed them to have representatives in their nations.
Please see my other post above. Britain and France gave the Confederacy "belligerent status" but did not recognize it as a country.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/18 … onfederacy
I concur, but I believed Britain recognized the Confederacy, but France did not. Neither nation had no diplomatic relations with the Confederacy. Abe Lincoln, being the clever and shrewd man that he was, intimidated and warned these nations to stay neutral and not get involved and it worked.
As Wilderness said, they established a country, a ruling body. The Confederacy was a self-proclaimed nation of 11 secessionist slave-holding states (originally only 7), which the United States refused to recognize as an independent country.
====================
Southern leaders like John C. Calhoun and Jefferson Davis argued that the Constitution was essentially a contract between sovereign states with the contracting parties retaining the inherent authority to withdraw from the agreement.
Northern leaders headed by newly elected President Abraham Lincoln insisted the Constitution was neither a contract nor an agreement between sovereign states. It was an agreement with the people, and once a state enters the Union, it cannot leave the Union.
============================
Lets clear this up a little, Ken and I start with the following definition: "By definition, the difference between a confederation and a federation is that the membership of the member states in a confederation is voluntary, while the membership in a federation is not. ... An example of this is the United States under the Articles of Confederation."
And if memory serves, I recall that the Articles of Confederation failed dismally and was replaced with our current Constitution. A federation is what replaced a confederation, so Lincoln and the North, based on that understanding were correct. So, while the argument in favor of secession is not completely without merit, the Constitution provided for a federation of states and so secession could not be voluntary.
==========================
Slavery has in today's rewritten history become the primary reason for the war, but the two parts of the USofA were very different... the North was industrialized and slave free, the South was mostly an agriculture based plantation system not so different from what the 'fly over' states became later in America's history, with lower population levels and an economy based on produce/farming.
=============================
States began to secede immediately after Lincoln's election. Did Lincoln's very ascension to the White House pose a threat to 'states rights'? Lincoln was the catalyst in the South reacting as it did as these regional issues were coming to a head. Lincoln made it clear after Ft. Sumter at the outset that he was not threatening to deprive the South of its slaves and he was no abolitionist. There was no reason to believe that the compromises between the regions that have otherwise been the case through the 19th century would not continue. The South forced the issue with secession, rebellion and insurrection.
The reason for the war was over the concept of the right of states to secede and the reason that this issue surrounding the right and need for secession reaching the point that it did was slavery. There is no doubtTo the point however, Lee did have a country... recognized or not, lasting or not, it had a governing body, set of laws, standing army, etc.
" The reason for the war was over the concept of the right of states to secede and the reason that this issue surrounding the right and need for secession reaching the point that it did was slavery."
Slavery was a large part of the social and cultural divide that had come to exist between the industrialized northern states and the southern agrarian states.
There was more at play however, there were tariffs being levied on predominantly southern businesses/exports by foreign nations because of tariffs and restrictions being placed on those foreign countries by the Federal Government.
The result was that that the 18.5 percent of America's citizens who lived in the South were saddled with three times their proportionate share of the federal government's costs.
Now, taking this into account, and then adding the known desire Lincoln had to make slavery illegal, the majority of Southern land owners and businessmen could see their economic destruction on the horizon, from their perspective they probably felt they were being given little choice.
promisem - yes Lee did have a country, he went on to be a president of a college in America. he was an upstanding American citizen, and respected his government until his death. Once again one of your very unintelligent glib statement. He lost and accepted the Government. Unlike you?
This seriously needs to be posted again. Perhaps it got missed within the long post it was orginally in:
sandflea_zzz
8/16/2017 7:13 AM MST
I listened as they called my President a Muslim.
I listened as they called him and his family a pack of monkeys.
I listened as they said he wasn't born here.
I watched as they blocked every single path to progress that they could.
I saw the pictures of him as Hitler.
I watched them shut down the government and hurt the entire nation twice.
I watched them turn their backs on every opportunity to open worthwhile dialog.
I watched them say that they would not even listen to any choice for Supreme Court no matter who the nominee was.
I listened as they openly said that they will oppose him at every turn.
I watched as they did just that.
I listened.
I watched.
I paid attention.
Now, I'm being called on to be tolerant.
To move forward.
To denounce protesters.
To "Get over it."
To accept this...
I will not.
I will do my part to make sure this great American mistake becomes the embarrassing footnote of our history that it deserves to be.
I will do this as quickly as possible every chance I get.
I will do my part to limit the damage that this man can do to my country.
I will watch his every move and point out every single mistake and misdeed in a loud and proud voice.
I will let you know in a loud voice every time this man backs away from a promise he made to them.
Them. The people who voted for him.
The ones who sold their souls and prayed for him to win.
I will do this so that they never forget.
And they will hear me.
They will see it in my eyes when I look at them.
They will hear it in my voice when I talk to them.
They will know that I know who they are.
They will know that I know what they are.
Do not call for my tolerance. I've tolerated all I can.
Now it's their turn to tolerate ridicule.
Be aware, make no mistake about it, every single thing that goes wrong in our country from this day
forward is now Trump's fault just as much as they thought it was Obama's.
I find it unreasonable for them to expect from me what they were entirely unwilling to give."
It wasn't missed, I just choose to ignore all posts with silly pictures strewn throughout them, I'm sure I am not the only one.
Don't like graphic evidence in your face, either? Fine.
sandflea_zzz
8/16/2017 7:13 AM MST
I listened as they called my President a Muslim.
I listened as they called him and his family a pack of monkeys.
I listened as they said he wasn't born here.
I watched as they blocked every single path to progress that they could.
I saw the pictures of him as Hitler.
I watched them shut down the government and hurt the entire nation twice.
I watched them turn their backs on every opportunity to open worthwhile dialog.
I watched them say that they would not even listen to any choice for Supreme Court no matter who the nominee was.
I listened as they openly said that they will oppose him at every turn.
I watched as they did just that.
I listened.
I watched.
I paid attention.
Now, I'm being called on to be tolerant.
To move forward.
To denounce protesters.
To "Get over it."
To accept this...
I will not.
I will do my part to make sure this great American mistake becomes the embarrassing footnote of our history that it deserves to be.
I will do this as quickly as possible every chance I get.
I will do my part to limit the damage that this man can do to my country.
I will watch his every move and point out every single mistake and misdeed in a loud and proud voice.
I will let you know in a loud voice every time this man backs away from a promise he made to them.
Them. The people who voted for him.
The ones who sold their souls and prayed for him to win.
I will do this so that they never forget.
And they will hear me.
They will see it in my eyes when I look at them.
They will hear it in my voice when I talk to them.
They will know that I know who they are.
They will know that I know what they are.
Do not call for my tolerance. I've tolerated all I can.
Now it's their turn to tolerate ridicule.
Be aware, make no mistake about it, every single thing that goes wrong in our country from this day
forward is now Trump's fault just as much as they thought it was Obama's.
I find it unreasonable for them to expect from me what they were entirely unwilling to give."Here's another one without the images you refuse to look at - enjoy.
Why have 'racists' suddenly come out to have these 'free hate speech' rallies - since Trump? They DO feel safe with Trump as their spokesperson.
Why do they flock to confederate statues?
Why do they come from outside big cities INTO big cities to stir up hard feelings - where it is the most dangerous to do so; and among the VERY 'kinds of people' they are protesting who don't agree with them?
Might they be TRYING to instigate something? If you're a Jew, Muslim or person of color (any color); WHY should you be okay with angry white men protesting against your very existence?!
THINK... I know its damn hard for so many T-fans to do.And another one...
T-fans 'we hate PC' is part of the reason why this rhetoric (and white supremists) has gotten so bold & disgusting; and its why tensions among groups has been so hyped to the breaking point. Sorry, I have no respect for people who think being politically-correct is the equivelant of being sh*t on.
Obama got the shaft from a lot of people, and that pissed off a lot of people.
And those people are returning the favor in spades on Trump, and those who support him.
All this does is feed the fires, when we can't discuss things rationally, and see logic and common sense, only race, gender, political ideology... there is no good that will come... only violence, and more violence until something so severe happens EVERONE is dismayed and disheartened by the fight, and are willing to come to terms.
In the 60s it took the assassination of every leader willing to stand up and fight for change, the Kennedys, King, Malcolm X, etc.
The century before that, it took the deaths of over 650,000 Americans to resolve their disputes.
Not sure what the cost will be in this Century, but I have a bad feeling it will be significant.
LBJ passed all the Civil Rights Acts. He has been misrepresented.
Maybe I'm not paying enough attention, but you're either a neo-Nazi or you're not and you either stand with those who oppose them or you don't.
There seem to be an awful lot of people here standing with the Neo-Nazis.That's a brilliantly clear and simple observation about the debate.
That's a prime example of the problem. Everyone finds this type of militant intolerance unacceptable. Some of us find militant intolerance unacceptable in every form but we are finding that militant intolerance is acceptable to some, as long as that militancy supports their opinions. Those want to quash free speech, where others (like me) accept that an environment without free speech breeds more problems.
Do you think white supremacists and anti supemacists are both examples of militant intolerance? Or are you saying the people posting here on one or both sides an example of it?
Militant intolerance is restricted to enacting, condoning or inciting violence. If you participate in violence, condone it or incite it that is what I define as militant intolerance.
I see many on the left making excuses for those who damage property, abrogate free speech, destroy historical markers and myriad other examples of violence. By doing so, they incite it by implicitly condoning it. That side also appears to demand that all voices which they do not deem to be politically correct be silenced. That side appears to not understand that standing in favor of freedom of speech is not tantamount to supporting the words ultimately spoken by those who exercise that right.
We will all have differences of opinion. The only way to change opinion is through correct behavior which displays that harmony and equality are possible. Demonizing without attempting to understand another opinion causes the individual to display behavior patterns which are indicative of frustration and feelings of being 'left out' of society. The problem is that in our attempt to be inclusive we are finding that this attempt creates feelings of exclusion. Those who feel excluded have the right to speak; whether we agree with their assessment of the causes or not.Well said. I agree with that statement.
Here's where I disagree and there are a lot of shades of gray in this answer, so try to assume I'm not being militant in my response.
Where did being tolerant and quiet and non-disruptive get black people for 100 years following the Civil War? Where has it gotten gay people? The history of our country shows that being civil in the face of injustice means that you're going to wait a really long time for justice to come and that sometimes it takes improper behavior to move things along. Thus, I think there are times when violence is called for if the cause is great enough. Now, do I want everyone deciding for themselves when that time is? That's the problem.I don't consider Martin Luther King uncivil. Some things may have happened during this movement which were violent but you cannot lay the violence at his feet. And, it is his eloquence and persistence which drew more than just disenfranchised blacks to the call and ultimately spurred change. And I'm not aware of violent riots by any in the LGBT community which compelled change in public opinion. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
As a matter of fact I'd be willing to bet that most of our changes which created greater inclusiveness within our society during my lifetime have been brought about by the masses learning of the individual or the groups' struggles and recognizing the unfairness of that. I don't think anyone has been bullied into supporting change because of violence.
I agree with Crankalicious. It's an excellent answer. Reasonable people on both side of the issue oppose violence, illegal attacks on historical monuments and attacks on free speech.
Extremists on the left have made the Charlottesville riot a lot more gray by acting violently. Most of the protesters there took the high road, but some did not.
We are still left with the growing problem of white supremacists and a President who failed to condemn them strongly in his first press conference and at other times.I will make one more comment. The well-crafted statement you made is one that's easy to make from a place of privilege. Those of us who are white, upper-middle class; etc. can easily say such things because we've never been disenfranchised in our lives and just become confused when we see people claiming to be discriminated against. We are they upset, we ask? Life is so great if you just work hard and keep your head down.
So, us white people can argue about what constitutes acceptable protest/outrage. Certainly, a bunch of college students keeping somebody from speaking on their campus qualifies as low on the justification totem pole. And when those college students destroy property, I can see why people get worked up and start complaining about "liberalism". Totally understandable.
However, when those same people start equating Black Lives Matter with Nazis, then I see that more as the complainers own inherent bias and racism than anything BLM is doing because black people have a legitimate gripe about how they are treated by police and the system in general.You know one of the problems, 'the upper middle class white people' you speak of don't seem to be aware that there are more poor disenfranchised white people in America than there are poor disenfranchised blacks.
So when a white person living in a trailer park is told he is white so he needs to shut up and deal with it, while others get to abuse them because they are 'white privileged people' but they can't pay their bills, can't afford 'affordable' health care, and can't express themselves or their frustrations because they are 'white and privileged' you are just creating the type of animosity that helps put Trump into the WH.
And the more the media pounds on this 24x7, all the anti-white rants, all the 'white privilege' rants, all the Trump is a Nazi talk... the more it drives white people who aren't privileged into the alt-right way of thinking.
I often think it is deliberate, keep us divided, keep people fighting and blaming one another because of race and religion, and you never have to worry about them turning their attention to the real causes of their grief.You know one of the problems, 'the upper middle class white people' you speak of don't seem to be aware that there are more poor disenfranchised white people in America than there are poor disenfranchised blacks.
=====================
But conservatives, when I bring the point that whites use welfare and food stamps as well, point to the proportion of blacks on the programs rather than the flat numbers. So, following that logic, in proportion to their population, there are more poor disenfranchised blacks than whites.
======================
So when a white person living in a trailer park is told he is white so he needs to shut up and deal with it, while others get to abuse them because they are 'white privileged people' but they can't pay their bills, can't afford 'affordable' health care, and can't express themselves or their frustrations because they are 'white and privileged' you are just creating the type of animosity that helps put Trump into the WH.
=========================
That is why instead of poor whites blaming other poor people in the same situation for their circumstances they should find that all of our situations are in common. They need to know that they are being manipulated in directing their anger at the wrong targets.
======================================
And the more the media pounds on this 24x7, all the anti-white rants, all the 'white privilege' rants, all the Trump is a Nazi talk... the more it drives white people who aren't privileged into the alt-right way of thinking.
==================
As part of the manipulation, this so called rant is made to appear solely anti-white, when it is anti-Klan, Anti-Nazi, anti-white supremacist. More white people who are not privileged need to think things out a bit more. Being anti-white supremacist is NOT being anti-white. When Trump heehaws over this important distinction he makes himself suspect.
===================================
I often think it is deliberate, keep us divided, keep people fighting and blaming one another because of race and religion, and you never have to worry about them turning their attention to the real causes of their grief.
==================
With that I agree....."But conservatives, when I bring the point that whites use welfare and food stamps as well, point to the proportion of blacks on the programs rather than the flat numbers. So, following that logic, in proportion to their population, there are more poor disenfranchised blacks than whites. "
You don't get that argument from me, and, as blacks supposedly only make up about 10% of the population, while whites make up about 50% of the population, if half the whites are 'poor' then there are more whites than blacks that are poor, even if 90% of the blacks were considered poor.
Its always important to understand the numbers.
For instance with the argument for single-payer socialized healthcare, people will say "it works in Canada" ... yes it works in Canada, a population 10% the size of America.
18.5 of the 35 million Canadians are employed.
Roughly 53% of the population works.
127 of the 327 million Americans are employed.
Roughly 38% of the population works.
Social healthcare works with a much smaller population like Canada, because a much greater percentage of people work and contribute to that type of support, in addition to other factors, such as not having one sixth of their economy tied into healthcare or allowing the mega-billion big Pharma and Insurance corporations to set national policy.
When they shove that onto the one third of Americans that work, and ask them to carry the two thirds that don't, it won't work quite so well... and you don't need to be an economics major to grasp that, just takes some common sense. Unfortunately common sense is in short supply in today's America.
Ken,
Great point.
Steve Bannon, for all his faults, has some very good ideas about certain things. One of them is that if liberals keep babbling on about race relations, conservatives will win because of exactly the reasons you cite above. There are more poor white people in the country who need help and jobs. Bannon also has a great point about China. China is a serious problem. Free trade with China is going to result in the loss of a massive number of American jobs and if we don't figure out how to trade with them on equal footing, our country is going to be in trouble soon.I appreciate that reply.
And correct on China's 'favored nation' no tariffs trade status, it is very costly to America's industry/jobs. A big reason why North Korea is rattling its sword is simply because it is the attack dog on China's leash.
China gets to rattle the swords of war without directly making threats or taking the international heat for doing so... they let North Korea do it, and then play a 'critical role' in getting NK to back down.
Its an old trick they have been playing successfully over and over to get leverage and concessions, since the Armistice was put in place.
Trump ran on a campaign that promised to take on the 500 Billion a year trade imbalance with China... and wouldn't you know it, soon as he steps into office, and goes to work, North Korea starts shooting missiles all over the place.
China says: "Sure we will help you settle North Korea down, but in return you have to back off these efforts to place tariffs on our products... deal?"
Nothing in international affairs is ever what it appears to be on the surface.Ken,
I suspect you're wrong about the relationship between North Korea and China. I doubt China controls North Korea. We made the same mistake in Vietnam, believing that Vietnam was acting as part of a communist coalition when, in fact, their fight against the U.S. was purely nationalistic. I think it's the same with North Korea. I'm sure China has some influence, but I think North Korea's motivations are much more nationalistic than anything else.
That's not to say that China doesn't enjoy the predictability of North Korea, but I bet their influence is minimal.What brings you to this conclusion?
How well read are you on the history and relations between NK and China?
I ask because I have considerable experience and knowledge to draw off of that aids in my conclusions. In fact, I would say I am more familiar with this topic than I would have willingly gone out and discovered on my own, if I had not been stationed in Korea, twice.My conclusion is really based on a lot of knowledge about Vietnam and the mistakes we made there.
However, I am not as well read on China's relationship with NK and it sounds like you are. So, I'm very interested in your perspective.
Sorry if I generally don't assume that people on this board are that well-read on any particular subject.
You're mistaking polemics for actual beliefs. I don't see any flexibility on either side about this because it's the nature of a board like this for people to post their most extreme view. I rarely find subtlety here. Further, people are posting in an anonymous to semi-anonymous fashion, which leads to further extremism.
That said, equating the extremism of neo-Nazis with the extremism of those opposing them is anti-intellectualism at its finest.
Bravo! I couldn't agree more. If you don't have words and ideas to back up your point of view without name calling, just be quiet. All liberals are not idiots and all conservatives are not ignorant.
Ken, I have little sympathy for those who made money on the backs of slaves, even though my Great grandfather was an overseer on such a plantation, I abhor his part in that job and his part in fighting for the south during the Civil War. Yes, it was about States Rights as well as slavery, but there is no excuse for owning human beings and making them toil so they can live high on the hog.
This was a cruel time in the U.S. as in the north children as young as nine were working in the factories in conditions which made some slave labor look palatable. Both sides were wrong in some cases. And that's the name of that tune.How dare you to even say that! I am a Trump supporter I am either democrat or republican and I will never apologize for something that I believe in. I owe no one any explanation I follow my own conviction. Just keep on judging others and you will be judged by our Almighty God for that statement alone!
Thank you. I don't happen to believe in supporting a racist President. I'm pretty sure Almighty God doesn't either.
Actually, God supports every perspective and is in the midst of every person's perspective - because 'perspective' is part of a person's ever-expanding personal identity. It is why we can't make a 'wrong choice' - despite how humans have been taught to resist 'sin'.
'Resisting sin' is what has gotten us into this mess. We push against everything we don't want, while worrying about it. Whatever we focus our attention on adds energy to it - and makes it BIGGER. Ideally, we use negative circumstances to 'push off' from; and move our attention to what we DO want - but, creating our own reality is still something humans are just now realizing & learning about.
The day we are finally able to view things (and people) 'through the eyes of Source' - apparently, a long damn time from now - that is when our lives will really start to get boring, LoL!
There is a purpose for everything - even Trump. ALL of us have lessons to learn from this situation (not necessarily the same ones); and unfortunately, God doesn't really care how frustrated we become trying to learn them. And we have a choice: we can learn them or reject them. It makes no difference to him one way or the other. Surprise, there will be no judgements!
Life is just a bowl of cherries to be enjoyed - and when we're not enjoying it, we're missing the point. I talk about Trump in my 1st spotlight article, both in the middle somewhere and at the very end. He's not a 'bad man'. NONE of us are 'bad' (as MAD as we can get at each other, LoL!)
Trump supporters listen to Fox News, and they are even pulling back a bit at his idiocy these days. Trump cares nothing for anyone but himself and his ideas of grandeur. He will always be an arrogant low class braggart, unless of course, he gets kicked out of the White House. Which we'd all be the better for.
It's interesting that Fox has suddenly developed some ethics. It seems to be down to businesses refusing to allow their ads on shows that are too obviously pushing fake news. Also all those scandals around sexual harassment have spooked advertisers, too.
Seems Fox has a dilemma. It can tell something like the truth and alienate viewers or lose advertising revenue.Fox is toast, I don't watch them, but I am not the only person who sees the obviousness of this, their ratings are tumbling, people are tuning out. What Fox is preaching is becoming indistinguishable from what MSNBC and the rest are selling.
The information access is being tightened up, Google is demonetarizing any site that doesn't conform to their political ideals, its canceling Aps that give access to free or alternative platforms that don't meet their political ideals... Fox has gotten a make-over (that is still in progress)... they are doing their best to shut down any alternate sources of news and information that they can.Fox came up with an answer. It just loudly announced it is donating $1 million to the Anti-Defamation League, a prominent Jewish organization.
Promisem, The ADL continues to fight threats to our democracy, which including cyber hate, bullying of any form, bias that are prevalent in schools as well as the criminal justice system. They fight against terrorism, hate crimes, coercion of religious minorities, and contempt for anyone who is different.
They provide law enforcement and communities with the information that is needed to stay safe from extremist threats of every kind.
ADL pursues fair treatment for all through legislatures, the courts and the public square—both federally and at the grassroots.
ADL’s offer their acclaimed education programs guide for youth and adults encouraging all to reject biases, appreciate differences and create welcoming. And yes they are a Jewish organization, that have a history of helping all..
Misfit Chick: So there is a natural order to everything. The universe is unfolding as it should. If we are blown of the face of this earth by nuclear holocaust, then that is as it should be. Because as viewed from the universe, it won't make a difference. Is that what you are saying?
Steve Bannon misses a point: the story of America is race relations, since Europeans landed here. Europeans set up these strange ideas about race which are not held the world over. (I've worked with Korean and Vietnam vets who said that the Vietnamese and the Koreans couldn't get why some lighter men were called Black why darker men were called White.)
Another point you failed to get: in the next twenty years, Whites will be the minority in America. In 2020, most of the students in America will be nonwhite. Like it or not, we must deal with the lies of race.
Finally, Steve Bannon said we would be in a war with China in five years. Wake up! Those people live in a "superpower," like we do. Trump pulled out of the Pacific Trade agreement-an agreement which would have given us 40 percent of the world's trade through the Pacific Rim. Whether we talk about it or not, we have to deal with race and China isn't going to be pushed around.
Leaving the trade agreement was the worse thing Trump could have done. It was a tool we had to cooperate and give us some leverage with China in the future. Now, China is setting up shop there while we are loosing influence. Steve Bannon! brilliant strategist. Is that why he was removed or did he resign? (lo.l)Tim, your point is well taken, the old 'who has the most battleships and such' goes back to Teddy Roosevelt. Militarism is not going to be the determinant in todays international struggles for hegemony. As you so wisely point out, how can the U.S. hope to intimidate a population of over a billion people? The true power brokers operate on economics. We have to be smarter than this, and while I don't know as much about this as I would like to, I am going to check it out.
And if I know Trump, he is taking the wrong tack as he usually does.Totally incorrect Tim in regards to TPP, absolutely no benefit to the American working class would have come from the TPP.
What you are talking about is essentially the same lies that were spouted over NAFTA. While NAFTA helped companies become richer, and helped spread the wealth to Mexico and Canada, it did NOTHING positive for the American workers, their salaries, or their benefits.
TPP would have benefited capital, corporations would reap rewards far greater than labor. The benefits described for labor by supporters of TPP had already been accounted for, or were based on misguided calculations. In essence, it would screw the American workers just like NAFTA did/does.
In regards to the expected income increases they really only would have benefited those at the very top of the labor market who would have seen gains from patent and intellectual property right protection. Maybe... if China and others actually followed the rules.
For job creation, the calculations that had been used to determine jobs created relied on a direct connection from income increases to job growth, but the truth in actuality was that the TPP would have lead to more productivity and dispersal of jobs to overseas, requiring fewer jobs here in America.
In addition, the model they used to calculate job growth did not account for any wage increase (of course not! we have had wage stagnation ever since NAFTA was put into effect!), meaning jobs would only be added if wages stayed static compared to a dynamic rate of inflation.
In short, this would have helped the rich get richer, and the poor stay poor here in America.
OMG! I must say it! Go Fox! You see, words must equal action for a soul which is living in reality-unless it's an ongoing reality show (Take from that what you may.)
You are correct in your analysis of the current situation. The best result of Trump winning election is the reaction of democrats and the media. They have lost their sanity and exposes themselves to be the fake phony and fraud that they are. Washington is indeed broken not because of the voters but because of the elite insider class. They are bought and pay for by wall street and Soros...and globalists...
Live To Learn, So wonderfully put.. I voted for Trump because I felt he would be very transparent, which he has been. I voted for his ability to call out a problem, and not sugar coat it to make it more palatable for citizens. President Trump could never be accused of sugar coating problems that our country currently faces. I voted for him due to his ability to use common sense in dealing with problems, which I feel he has been doing. I didn't care about eloquent speeches or a president that got on well with celebrities or was fashion forward with what he chose to wear. I wanted a president that would face our problems, and not ignore them but work on fixing them. And not break down or give up due to many trying to bring him down for the reason that are unfounded. He won, Americans voted for him with all of what others saw as flaws, we saw as the qualities that the nation needed at this time in history.
Can we afford to keep making the same mistakes by voting in carbon copy politicians. Well, many said no... And we voted for change, transparency, and yes a man with rough edges, and orange hair... He is fulfilling many of his promises. However, many refuse to see his progress, due to a unique ability to be able to ignore what stares them in the face. Many actually hope he fails, even at the expense of the country. He is our president, and we as Americans should support him, and stop thinking they have the right to change him into what they feel a president should be. We voted for him as is, what you see is what you get...Randy, And you are so sure you can "get rid of" him ? You certainly didn't do too good of a job first time around.. Do you ever even consider you might be poorly informed, and actually backing the wrong party? Just curious... LOL
No matter which party I was in in I was too savvy to fall for an arrogant snake oil salesman like many of your ilk, Shar. I'm very well informed as I also watch and listen to the morons on Fox News and rightwing radio.
It's easy to figure out Trump. He care's nothing for the truth as has been well documented over the years and even during his inauguration day claims. I feel you are the more misinformed person between the two of us.
I guess at some point you have to decide whether you support Nazis or don't and whether you're willing to support a candidate that clearly supports white nationalism.
The problem here is that we're all being sucked in to an argument that the politicians love that we're having - which millionaire or billionaire has our best interests at heart.
Does anyone really think that a billionaire is looking out for regular people? Do the elite really have our best interests in mind? Or are they mostly vested in their own stuff?
The bottom line: until we find somebody who is not an elite, multi-millionaire, Washington insider, we're probably going to be at each other's throats arguing about stuff that will never change.crankalicious --- "I guess at some point you have to decide whether you support Nazis or don't and whether you're willing to support a candidate that clearly supports white nationalism." First, what would make you think President Trump supports white supremacist? Second, why do you think you have the right to make such a statement? When did it become so accepted to slander a person, just to slander them. President Trump has grandchildren that are Jewish, and he employees thousands of black Americans in his organization. Would a Nazi have his Jewish son-in law at his side in the WH? These are facts, you have come to your conclusions using conjecture only. Would you feel comfortable if I found it acceptable to call you a Nazi, and actually spread it around online? Perhaps a few words would have made me form my opinion? Perhaps by reading your above comment, I found you to be treasonous. A danger to the President? Would it be fair for me to insult you because of a few words? Anyone with common sense, would not set out to slander with such ease...
This form of Trump bashing is nothing but a form of media driven hysteria. What is ad to me is that there appears to be many that can be easily drawn into this form of hysteria. It appears that many feel it makes them part of a group. A group that can insult, slander, and not have to answer for it. Most in this group use little or no common sense, they are driven by the hysteria. It odd they can't come to see truth, even if it's right in front of them. Even if the evidence is overwhelming. Such is the case of calling Trump a white supremacist. Once again, his daughter is married to a Jew, a Jew that he respects and has by his side in the WH, the father of his grandchildren. A man that employees thousands of black Americans... A white supremacist, a Nazi? I think not. Please calm yourself, and let these very facts sink in, use just a little common sense... Please"good people on both sides"
There are no good Nazis. I said what I said because President Trump said it himself. He equated white nationalism with the people who protested.
I do actually see your point, but that really means that Trump is playing a very dangerous game. He needs those votes, right? So he doesn't want to alienate the alt-right because they form his base. He doesn't want to call out the white nationalists because he knows that they all voted for him. I get it. But in doing so, he empowers them. It's very disturbing, but I do see your point. He's not eloquent enough to explain himself.
Here's what you're missing and what we're all missing: Trump doesn't care about any of this. You know what he and most other people in his position like? Money and power. Whatever they need to do to get one or the other or both, they'll do. We need to stop arguing about this stuff and look for somebody who truly has the interests of working people.
If anyone thinks Donald Trump has the interest of working people at heart, they are crazy. Any interest he has is a byproduct of his quest for money or power.--->and you can read minds, in particular, his?
Behaviors and actions mean things. I'm making an interpretation. Try to be a little less anti-intellectual. Everyone psychoanalyzes everyone else. If you believe he's behaving in your best interests based on his history and his behavior, that's your right.
crankalicious, I can't agree with labeling or pigeon holing a person, due to being wealthy. For one thing Trump had a wonderful life, and given his age I would not want to assume he went into this to make money. It's just to thankless a job. He claims he hopes to give back. In the end no one knows what is in his heart or mind. In regards to his statement "There were some good people on both sides". He also added right after that statement something about you don't have the same information I have. I have done some research today on just who got the permit for the protest. It was a man by the name of Jason Kessler. he has a sketchy past, and ad been aligned with far left groups before last Nov. He as never affiliated with the KKK or any white supremacist groups. He gathered not only white supremacist but also citizens from Charlottesville, that were just there to protest the fact they did not want the statue removed. So, you had a mix of KKK, Nazis, white supremacist and some towns people. The media did not report the fact that some innocent residents were pulled into this protest. I saw an interview with a man and his wife on Fox, and they told their story about being there to protest the statue being removed. They felt it was part of history.
I would think the media would have picked up the story on Jason Kessler the man that got the permit. He had no real affiliation to any group, but now claims to be a spokesmen for the Alt right? To me it appears he was an instigator, and knew just what he was doing. And he was doing it to promote racism. Was Trump referring to Charlotteville citizens when he said 'there were good people? One would think he would clarify that statement? I have added a link from the Washington Post if you like to read a bit about this character. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the … in-hiding-You have made a good point here, you don't have to belong to any extremist group to be among groups of people that would prefer that the statues not be removed.
The issues of removal verses retention of the statues could be discussed among reasonable people in a reasonable way. I think that this intention was instead hijacked by these extremist groups as an opportunity to express racist ire.Because they want to create/stir rage. True!
I suggested to a few people the statues could be removed someplace such as a museum where anyone who wanted to view them could do so. They replied, "No, they need to stay where they are." I then queried them as to how many times they had visited a city simply to see said statues. None of them had done so from their own admissions.
Randy, I wish all people who are interested could intelligently discuss the pros/cons and make a joint decision. We need to show young people how to resolve conflict.
I care more about the hearts and less about the statues.I agree, Diane. Hunks of stone should never replace our hearts.
Randy I used to live in Virginia. It would be a sad thing to remove the monuments from Monument Boulevard. I lived in GA once. It would be a travesty to have Stone Mountain removed. Are we to blast away Mount Rushmore? Where does it all end?
History is just that. It cannot be changed. Removing monuments will do little to appease someone who is offended by a hunk of metal or stone.
Thanks for your insightful contribution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol … ist-views/
Thank you, C.
Money talks, and we know what walks. A brilliant leader would use the power of the pocketbook. Truly, I saw a documentary which showed for the longest time, the CIA, FBI, and other agencies were deeply involved with the media. (This is why I question the idea of the "fake" media.) The media has historically pushed the agenda of the leaders, whether we like it or not.
(Right now, check out the Koch brothers, see what they are pushing, what agencies they are influencing. We have an overwhelmingly conservative push, where is that coming from? Also, there was a time when news organizations had to thoroughly represent both sides - that changed in the 1980's. Why? So Fox could grow up and hurt our ears.
(Has anyone besides me heard of the FCC which has changed its goals several times within the last 5 years. Why?)
It's simple" give a message of hopelessness to the masses; get the poor to fight among themselves; get them to blame each other; and the ones controlling the message and the power walk away with the cash. (This is classical political chaos theory which people like Bannon unleashed on America.)
Hubbers, we shouldn't fool ourselves: as long as poor people of color, poor Whites, and other groups argue a bout the things brought to our attention not by our choice: corporations, political leaders, and top notch military leaders will continue to remind us that they don't mind frying us in the Big Burn.
One of the fundamental things I learned was that journalism is not about entertainment; ask yourself: How many of the people you watch or listen to make a point of letting you know they are not doing their job for entertainment? (Note here: Rush does a good job of that most days, and he is not a journalist.)Never apologize, never give in.
They shall troll the internet forums,
They shall repeat Faux News talking points-
They shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the alt-right! (@£t Reich?)
They will dig their heels deeper into the sand
They will NEVER admit a mistake!!!These are largely the same people who cheerleaded the invasion of Iraq, a monumental mistake of disastrous proportions. We were called traitors for not jumping on the war bandwagon, but we turned out to be right. I've never heard an apology for that horrific mistake. The same family, friends, and angry conservatives who supported that travesty are now on the Trump Train. I, for one, am sick of living with their poor choices.
- PrettyPantherposted 7 years ago0
So, here is my observation about your delusional belief that Trump was elected because people are "fed up" with their corrupt government. Many of my Republican friends, many Republicans on the Hill, many Republican commentators, just plain "many Republicans" did not like Trump when he was campaigning. However, as soon as he received that official Republican nomination, they jumped on the Trump Train as fast as a jackrabbit running from a coyote. So, don't tell me he isn't a Republican, supported by Republicans, enabled by the Republican establishment, and kept alive by Republicans. He still enjoys majority support among Republicans, while pretty much everyone else despises him.
So, you can tell me until you're blue in the face that he isn't a Republican, and I'm not buying it. You can cling to your precious illusion that he will "drain the swamp." He needs the swamp to keep his presidency alive. Plus, he is just plain too stupid, too incompetent, and too childish to do anything except lessen our standing in the world and ruin our reputation. He doesn't care about draining the swamp. He cares about himself and nothing more.
I have nothing but disgust for anyone who continues to support the incompetent man-child. If you Trump supporters can't see your mistake by now, then you're too stupid to vote. You fell for his con. Unfortunately for us, even stupid people are guaranteed the right to vote. Trump is single-highhandedly abdicating our political, economic, and moral power to the rest of the world.
Let's hope we can take our country back from the stupid people before it's too late.Pretty, he may be draining the swamp but he is filling it with sewage.
And this is the type of post, and this is the type of thread in general, the sentiment here, the lack of respect and outright disdain for anyone that doesn't see things through your prism of reality, that not only put Trump into office, but will put him back there again.
It is a reflection of the sentiment the media, and the D.C. elites, have for the rest of America.
I should have bowed out of this thread long ago, it is clearly meant to be an 'echo chamber' for like minds, not a thread for debate and discussion, or expansion of one's knowledge.
I will do so now. Enjoy.Come on Ken! You have thicker skin than that!!!!
So, we get to hear our dear leader bully and insult his way into office, talk about taking this country back (from who, pray tell?), and you're offended by little old me?
Pshaw....Con't remember where Trump:
called anyone delusional
called anyone stupid
called anyone incompetent
called anyone a man-child
called anyone too stupid to vote
claimed anyone has single-highhandedly abdicated our political, economic, and moral power to the rest of the world.
Yeah, it's offensive. At least as offensive as Trumps insults. Not much difference at all, really.Uh huh, but I'm not your choice for leader of this great--but increasingly embarrassing--country, am I?
I see. And that bestows the right to be as offensive as possible, not only to the President but anyone that supports or even voted for him as lesser of two evils. All while claiming the President offends you. Got it.
Has it occurred to you that we really did get a "man in the street"? That Trump is no more than a reflection of the people of the country? Oh, perhaps a slightly more urbane and refined version, given the vitriol and hate we see directed at him, but still basically the same as all the other rude, offensive, insulting people taking him to task for being rude, offensive and insulting?Remember, he lost the popular vote and his support is quickly fading. My rude assessment applies to those who still suffer from the delusion that he will drain the swamp or kick ass in Washington or build a wall with Mexico 's money.
He won the only contest that counts - all else is drivel by sore losers. His support may or may not be fading - No thinking person trusts the polls producing results they want to hear.
His election (not something he does personally) may help drain the swamp. He may have enough power to kick some ass, although I doubt it. He may build a wall with money that would have gone to Mexico, but I doubt it. None of which is a reason for derision; I just don't have the wonderful crystal ball you do. Nor the propensity for calling names or deriding opinions different than my own.After reading the local news paper, I realized the disdain for Trump is oozing from every nick and cranny. I am very afraid for him. He needs to rethink some of his tactics. The people are not coming from a place of enlightenment. He needs to dumb himself down a little just to keep the nation from coming unglued. For instance, I don't think he should have touched the Dream Act.
http://www.businessinsider.com/end-of-t … ack-2017-9Why do you think Trump is ending the Dream Act?
Let's first set the correct stage for your question. Pres. Trump is not ending the "Dream Act," The Dream Act never became an "Act." It was and is a failed legislative proposal.
What Pres. Trump is proposing is to rescind the DACA, (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), policy initiated by the Dept. of Homeland Security.
Of course that is just a technical point for correctness. The essence of your question remains the same.
For an answer I would say that he should rescind that policy decision, it contravenes current immigration law. I think he is correct to take it out of the hands of a department policy maker and force Congress to do its job. Our government must stand by its laws - or change them.
I support the concept of the Dream Act. I think a majority of Americans do too. As such, I think it is Congress' job to address the situation. I also think that most legislators are aware of that support. So Pres. Trump is giving them six months, (as I hear it), to stop hiding behind rhetoric and excuses.
I also think that folks bashing Pres. Trump for this action are doing so for the wrong reasons, either purposely for partisan reasons, or erroneously because they don't know what they are talking about.
GA"I think he is correct to take it out of the hands of a department policy maker and force Congress to do its job. "
I agree with this 100%. It is surprising to me to see the number of people hating on Trump for enforcing the laws of the United States - one of his primary jobs.
But ask those same people if Trump should pick and choose, according to his personal preference, which laws to enforce? Not likely. Should he end any right to an abortion? Should he end anti-discrimination laws? Call in all student loans and stop making new ones? Require federal identification before a dime of welfare is given out?
No - Trump should only ignore the laws the speaker doesn't like, either -
he shall not be allowed to use his personal ethics or desires to pick which laws to use and which to ignore. Funny how that works...I think he changed his mind and couldn't do it. That's why he let Sessions do it. What's interesting is, 6 months and then what? He talked about revisiting it. Do you think he will come up with his own DACA by another name?
Hi Diane, I am not sure why he let Sessions do it. Speculation could go a lot of different directions; from he was the right person to make the announcement, (as a legal position - which is the DOJ's job), to he was ducking the expected controversy and making Sessions the fall guy if things went south, (ha! how about that little dig ;-)). But I am sure that the partisan pundits will offer us a lot of perspectives to consider.
I was sorry to hear that he tweeted that he might revisit the issue. I think that takes a little pressure off of the Congress to do the job it is supposed to do within the time-frame he set.
No I do not think he will implement "his own" DACA, although he may propose one to the Congress - nothing wrong with that. It is an established presidential prerogative.
GA
Yes, all that sounds lovely. Do you think Trump cares about the rule of law? Maybe. Or, do you think a little birdie whispered in his ear that he could use the lives of Dreamers as a negotiating tool to get the Dems to fund the wall, er, I mean, border security?
Hello... Hello...? Can you hear me? Are you there?
Damn, must be a bad connection. *click
GAHi GA, I'm here. I get your reply, I think. You believe I am not listening or, at the very least, choosing not to have a real conversation about what you stated. I get that way sometimes. All of what you stated is correct. All of it I agree with. However, I asked Kathryn why she thought Trump ended DACA? (yes, not the correct way to say it, but shorter)
You provided me with a nice, reasonable explanation for how it should work and why it was a reasonable course of action. Do you think that is why Trump did what he did? That is the question. Of course, you will very reasonably reply that there is no way to truly know what was behind Trump's actions, and that would be a very wise statement. But, again, that really wasn't my question.
So, in conclusion, while you might think I'm not listening to you, I could argue that you weren't really answering the question that I asked. See?
Love ya,
Sandy
(yes, I actually do love you in these forums, because you're sane, sometimes to a fault. A little righteous anger never hurt anyone and sometimes galvanizes the good people who are too comfortable in their cozy little lives).Well, PrettyPanther, I am not immune to outbursts of righteous, (at least I consider it so when it happens), anger, as you can witness in my most recent reply to Credence2 in one of the threads about removing statues.
To answer the question the way you wanted it considered would require speculation. And since I have shied away from both pro and anti Trump discussions for that very reason, (speculation is like riding a roller coaster, lean too far either way and you could lose your head), I have to base my speculation on what has been publicly stated - and, take those statements at face value. So...
Candidate Trump repeatedly criticized the Obama Administration's move to implement DACA as unconstitutional, and wrong. I am not ready to speak to the unconstitutional charge, but I can agree with the "wrong" charge. It really was a policy that purposely ignored our laws. Regardless of the motivation, that is an inescapable fact. Neither Janet Napolitano nor Pres. Obama had the Constitutional authority to do that. (*There may be some argument that Pres. Obama could have done it with an Executive Order, but I am unsure of that)
At face value, Pres. Trump is doing what he said he would do, for the reasons he said it should be done. I think he is right in both respects.
Now... below the surface of that face value explanation, there are all kinds of criticisms like yours, but what if the face value explanation is the true explanation? Surely you can understand why I think my first answer was the correct one, and why I think that my sidestepping of all the dung piles of speculative accusations is the right way to answer your question.
Of course I will also look pretty naive if you can come up with the smoking gun memo or email that details a purely political "bargaining chip" use for his actions. Can you provide such support for your cynicism?
GANo, I cannot, and I freely admit I am speculating.
I feel I must apologize to you. Your dispassionate fairness grates on me when we are discussing policies that can literally tear apart innocent people's lives, or result in misery or death, or involve systemic, ongoing injustices. That's on me, not you. Just remember, no matter how caustic I get with you, I still love ya.
It would take a lot of evidence to convince me that Trump did anything out of the goodness of his heart or out of respect for the rule of law. I freely admit that. Trump supporters think that's bias. It is, but you gotta admit it's a bias formed from keen observation of the subject. Or, maybe you don't. ;-)
SandySandy, you are giving me way too much credit. My apparent "fairness" is just my concentrated effort not to fall prey to the ill-informed, too-full-of-myself snarkiness of my early forum days when I too frequently opened my mouth before engaging my brain.
You would be surprised at how many comments, (even recently), I have spent time composing with just the right brilliance of wit and condensation, and such well camouflaged snark - only to preview and then delete, because I ain't half as special as I sometimes think I am.
But, contrary to appearances, I am very passionate about my opinions that I am confident with. I am sure both Wilderness and Credence2 would agree with a "dog with a bone" description of my stubbornness.
So no apologies are warranted. ;-)
GA
DACA press briefing :
-"It sounds like the president is saying, you're saying, that if we're going to allow the dreamers to stay in this country we want a wall. Is that accurate?"
-"I don't think that the president's been shy about the fact the he want a wall and certainly a part of what a responsible reform package SH
"The president wants to see responsible immigration reform, and he wants that to be part of it. But again, we can't take a one-piece fix." SH… because it is a policy not founded on sound legal principles. What other country allows foreigners into their nation without legal requirements? What other country encourages outsiders to enter and then benefit without legal entry? We need to stop the nonsense. It is a cut and dry thing. Shouldn't they become citizens before we give them benefits?
Why are the beneficiaries of the Dream Act non-citizens at this point, if they have been given every opportunity?Pretty Panther,
I don't think is trying to end the Dream Act. I think if he has one soft spot, it is probably for children, especially those who were born here or brought so young they don't remember any other home. It would have eased a lot of their minds if he had made a decision today, but I think he could have only written an Executive Order like Obama did. In the end, a good number of R's support the Dreamers, and I think Congress should at least be able to get this passed.
I also don't think so many issues should be tacked on one piece of legislation. It just complicates matters and less gets done. Maybe each issue should be alone and on it's own.I think someone told him it could be used as a bargaining tool to persuade the Dems to fund a wall. Or, more likely, border security that does not include a wall.
I could be wrong, though, and Trump is just a kind-hearted softie who loves immigrant's babies.Pretty Panther,
I loathe the guy and can't imagine why people voted for anyone who was decisive and acting childish and barely sane during his campaign for a whole year.
I based my answer to you on the extensive work I did on his Astrology chart, and it's the only good thing I could find about him, although as a professional astrologer I had to be fair, and knew he would take the low road and not use his intelligence for good.
His racist roots were obvious when he began his career in NY and didn't rent to any people of color. He lies, and bullies, and still doesn't understand the job and what it entails. I could rant more, but many of us have. It's not about Hillary, it's about his sanity and ability to lead. He's a pathological liar and a narcissist. Many R's have come out and said it, but not enough will to get him out of office.I didn't realize you are a professional astrologer. That is interesting! I'm not a true believer but I enjoy reading my horoscope now and then because the advice is often thought provoking, irregardless of its origins. Libra/Scorpio cusp here. That explains my stinger. :-)
With regard to Trump, many agree with your assessment. How can so many be so blind to it?Pretty,
I'm not sure. The people who came out of the shadows to vote for him after not voting for decades probably don't pay much attention to political news or magazines. The D's have to get younger people, and get their act together too, or he may win a 2nd term. I wish Joe Biden would have run, and even that he may again. He's older, but has experience and is well liked, decent man.
I keep hoping for impeachment or that temper tantrum he could have and quit, he's childish enough to do it. Of course, then we have Pence, who forgets this is a secular country. He just agrees with Trump and looks at him adoringly.
That Astrology chart was the hardest one I did in 40 years. He had a lot of potential, but is crippled by his lack of morals. His thoughts are ruled by his emotions, not his head, a dangerous trait. I could go on, but for purposes of the astrology, I always try to be positive. I read what was there, and tried as much as possible to keep my feelings out of it.
I would be curious to know if you have done Hillary's chart. Can you tell us how evil she really is? Or am I wrong in thinking that she's pretty 'normal' as far as politicians go? (Keeping in mind, most career politicians don't have squeaky-clean records to begin with.)
I believe someone who knows what they are doing with Astrology is capable of picking out some 'truths' from it... Its like with anything (even fake news), you just gotta know that life is fluid & meant to be toyed with, LoL!
In other words, you don't have to believe everything you hear as being set in stone. We're on this planet to get dirty - not become 'more pure'. We are all already FINE, as is - as much as I hate to admit it, even Trump and his supporters. Its not like anything eternally-bad is actually going to happen to them, even if Trump manages to start WWIII and bring us to the brink of extinction.
We might not even have to WORRY about global warming, ha! Life will just start over again and go on... No big deal, whatever we humans choose to do as a collective conscience.Hi Misfit Chick,
I did also do an astrological profile on Hillary. In fact, I finished Trump's about three days before the Election, and had a huge fight with the administration here, because hers was on Exemplore, and his wasn't, and the quality of writing was the same. I did this at the last Presidential Election as well, and it was popular among people who like Astrology. That was Obama and Romney. I realize most people don't understand what a complex study it is, and persist in thinking it is solely based on where the Sun was located on the day of birth. My astrology practice has grown so much since the niche sites began, I barely have time to keep up with it, it's more than a P/T job!
I think Hillary was as shady as the average politicians, maybe a bit more ruthless. But she has been a tireless advocate for children and women's issues, was more qualified than our last three Presidents (including her husband), and I was shocked at the large part sexism played in this election. Most of my neighbors (largely male) couldn't get past the idea of a woman President. So the piece on her I wrote was more flattering, because she had a lot of positive info, and I really thought she would win.
Also, living in NJ, I knew what kind of person Trump was. He destroyed Atlantic City with his casinos and it's a ghost town now, filled with homeless people and drugs, and no jobs.I thought it would be a good idea to renovate them and make Veteran's Housing, since he promised to do so much for those who fought for America. It wouldn't be hard with his money. But we still don't know much about his financial status.
I agree with you that it would be much easier if Congress would only include one topic per bill, but that isn't going to happen any time soon, if ever.
I agree. Trump supporters who are taking this decision as being 'getting rid of unwanted immigrants' are wrong - that isn't what the phase out is about. Since BOTH parties care about this issue (bcuz migrant workers - illegal or otherwise - are viewed as a necessity for this country), it is far more likely that they will finally pass a solution for these people. And if they don't and it tanks - it is all their fault.
I actually support this T-decision; although I don't support his continued jerkishness while implementing it. I've said this before and I'll say it again, that man really needs a good PR person to help him roll out these things with MUCH less animosity. It really isn't necessary, but that is one of his divisive talents.
For people who think everything Trump has been doing is GREAT or good enough... Again, you all COULD have actually went out and found a semi-decent spokesperson for your causes who doesn't have such a sh*tty, manipulative & suspicious disposition. It has caused far more harm (dead girl in Charlottesville, to name one) than anything 'good' he may have done ('good' being a matter of perspective, LoL!).You know, if his delivery wasn't so despised, and if HE wasn't so despised by the media, these issues wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention as they are. People wouldn't be nearly aware of what is going on in our government today as they are...
I'm not saying all Americans, heck its probably not even the majority, but a larger percentage of people are paying attention, now more than ever... and for those who are looking at things with a critical eye, be they for or against Trump, are probably noticing things that went unnoticed.
My wife is far more aware of what is going on in politics than at anytime in her life, because Trump has become an integral part of EVERYONE's daily life... no one can escape it, the media talks about him every day, the media covers him like it has never covered anything or anyone in my lifetime... it might be almost entirely negative press, but it has him in the spotlight constantly.
And therefore it puts the ISSUES in the spotlight constantly. There is no chance that Congress meets in the middle of the night to double their salary (as they have done more than once in the past) and gets away with it without all of America finding out, Trump would blast that out on Tweets and Facebook and whatever else he is using. There is no chance that they ratify a 'lets give Iran a few hundred billion dollars to be nice to us' treaty without Trump making sure every American is aware of it.
So for all the crude or vulgar things you attribute to him, one thing is for certain, he has people paying more attention to what our government is doing than at any time in the past. And at the end of the day, I think a higher awareness is going to seep into the collective consciousness of the American people, and we will get around to demanding that these criminals like Pelosi, Waters, Graham, and so many others that have been in their for decades get thrown the hell out, maybe we do even more than that, maybe we find a way of holding Congress accountable to Americans... one can hope.Ken, your "more awareness" perspective is certainly a thought provoking one. I hadn't considered that angle, but, on the surface it does seem to have some validity, so now I must.
I am already in the midst of resolving another conflicting question, and now you have piled more on my plate. Gee thanks. ;-)
GAI am delighted that I could help ^I^
Consider it though, Obama was (or became) an establishment front-man in neo-liberal clothing (not quite analogous to a wolf in sheep's clothing but close enough)... and other than when he came out with some major gaffs like drawing a red line in the sand, and not enforcing it, or blaming a swath of riots across the Middle East on a YouTube video... he was given a pass by most of America and no one really paid attention to what he was doing.
And before him, there was Bush, who only came out to speak when it was deemed he had to, by whoever was making the decisions for him (people like Rice and Cheney) and sometimes long after he should have (Katrina). Even though the media spent a fair time beating up on him, it was nothing like it is now, and he didn't feed into it, stirring it and directing it, like Trump does.
The media I believe is trying to split the people into fighting factions, and to turn people against Trump... because it is obvious when you look at the last election(s) objectively... people supported the outsiders (Bernie & Trump) and a growing majority of them are fed up with their government. But in the process of the media (CNN, MSNBC) lashing out at Trump they are making what the government is doing, and how corrupt things are, more apparent than ever.
"You know, if his delivery wasn't so despised, and if HE wasn't so despised by the media, these issues wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention as they are. People wouldn't be nearly aware of what is going on in our government today as they are..."
I totally agree with you - imagine that!
I'll also remind you that Trump & his supporters made this bed that he now has to sleep in. If HE would stop whining about it; and he would STOP using his 'fake news!' crap (and rallies!) to manipulate the rabid among his base (oh yeah, and stop using Twitter) - the 'unfair news' about him would greatly diminish. It has already started to diminish, at times, since Kelly took office. If Trump would stop (continuing) to act like such an ass (we all know he does it on purpose) - there would only be actual news surrounding him to report on.
But no, he has to deliver things in such a way as to make the delivery BE the news - instead of the actual message. Its his OWN DAMN FAULT and I'm SO sick of hearing T-fans defend him and make excuses for him.
However, your original points that I agree with, stand... Donald Trump is a direct-result of the Universal Law of Attraction. He was called by the people AGES ago to fulfill a purpose in this day & age. The burning question is, 'what is that purpose?'
I mean, because he was called - doesn't necessarily mean that it was for a good reason (at least, not a good reason from our human perspective). The Universe impartially-responds to the 'vibrational attitude' (emotional essense) we are transmitting as a collective consciousness - so what have we been creating among us for the past several decades, do you suppose?
You've heard me say that I wasn't that much into politics before Trump, either. I knew who I was voting for; and I felt that I had very good, justifiable reasons for voting for her (despite heavy criticism from liberals, moderates AND conservatives for years).
I already didn't like Trump before he started running - you could TELL he was an ass, its not like he hid it. Its how he makes his freakin living! And of course, with all the hateful rhetoric he was spouting throughout his campaign (that he didn't hide and continues to spew on Twitter at every freakin opportunity!) - he unfortunately didn't manage to 'pull me in' or impress me.
So, I didn't start learning about him until he won the election and I was forced to. A lot of us were.
My, my I do believe I've touched a nerve. Your response is so freakin' hilarious.
You agree that Trump will not accomplish any of his signature campaign promises, yet take issue with my blunt opinion of those who continue to defend him. Sorry, I have no tact or patience left for those who continue to defend the con artist.
Apparently, your admiration for straight talk and non politically correct opinions only extends to your so-called POTUS. Oh, the irony of that, given his undisputed status as Liar-in-Chief."Sorry, I have no tact or patience left for those who continue to defend the con artist."
Yes, we all have a choice to make: we can either follow the example set by His Leadership, the President, or we can keep a civil tongue in our head and respect others. Personally, I've never liked the man, ever since his TV debut, and haven't seen a great deal that would change that. Which means I do not choose to follow his example.
Others will have differing opinions, and some will choose to use his methods while some will not.Pretty Panther - Not sure why you are under the opinion that President Trump is not accomplishing is agenda? Actually here are some facts that need not be defended, but celebrated. Illegal border crossings are down 75%, and this has occurred without the benefit of the "Wall". Which Congress did make some of the money needed available, and the wall is being worked on in different sections. Plus he is asking for more in is upcoming budget to complete the work. So, I would think we will have a Wall. He has not as of yet provided health care, but it is currently being worked on. His Tax reform is moving along with good speed, actually today he had a meeting with both Dem's and Rep's leaders, and the Dem's (Schumer was very pleased. with the progress on the budget.) He promised jobs, and has already created 1.4 million jobs. Our GDP is at 3% up fro it's Obama sad era which never went above 1.2%.. Unemployment sank to 4.3 percent in May, its lowest level in 16 years. He helped straighten out the Veterans administration. Vet's no longer have to wait months to get health care.. Their wait is down to days, and immediate care i many cases.
He has given Congress a chance to legalize DACA, and take these people out of limbo. He cut the job killing Obama regulations as he promised.
So, not sure why you feel he has not accomplished much of his agenda. It' a bit early to determine if he will b able to replace Obamacare. That's about the only promise he is actually having a problem with, but I assume once it totally collapses, Congress will have to step up and commit to a new health care plan. I don't actually have to defend him, he is doing very well. He may just turn out to be one of the best presidents we have had in a very long time. With all the rhetoric, and constant media bashing, he continues to deliver.. I have no tolerance for those that can't recognize the facts. It's not only sad, it's scary to see so many Americans are so ill educated on hi accomplishments. It's frightening to see that propaganda has reared its ugly head in America.I could argue that Trump is not responsible for most of what you listed here but I won't bother.
My comment was restricted to his promise to have Mexico pay for his beautiful wall, his promise to drain the swamp, and Trump voters' gleeful anticipation that he would be kickin' some Washington ass. None of these things have happened or will happen.
Come on PrettyPanther, stop mincing words. How do you really feel? ;-)
GAYou know the true irony of being accused of not tolerating opposing opinions? I was married to a lifelong Republican for many years and we have managed to have lengthy political discussions without a single fight over politics.
I say "was married" because he recently became a registered Democrat. He is still conservative but could no longer tolerate being associated with a party that would put up with a lying, incompetent buffoon just so they might get a chance to give another tax break to billionaires.
He has principles. He worked in the Pentagon under Reagan. He says Reagan would've been embarrassed to call himself a Republican in this day and age. I believe him.Pretty,
I'm just trying to get someone to answer what they really expected him to do in the swamp.
1. Enforce term limits? They aren't enforced now?
2. Pork barrel spending? For instance? How often does it happen?
3. Drain the swamp? Does that mean kick everyone out? How can he single handedly do this?
I ask because I genuinely want to know. All I get is sarcasm or deflection. I think they liked the way he talked. There is no way they could have expected him to make a difference in a system he had no knowledge of or experience in. He thought he would be president like CEO of Trump, Inc.
He tried to take crooks in there with him to help him do whatever. He didn't realize that, unlike Trump, Inc., he is accountable to the people of the US.
That's naive!I agree, they liked the way he talked. His anger, his hateful bullying, his sexism. They liked it. A few admitted they liked it. Others were too embarrassed to admit it, but deep down, it made them feel hopeful to regain the power they feared they had lost. He verbalized their deepest secret, that they longed for the days when their place atop the economic, political, and social strata was never questioned.
Trump played to their dark, little racist, sexist hearts. Most of them don't recognize it. Some do, but want to keep the realization buried. They are the ones desperately trying to defend themselves. They are the ones most offended by the disdain they are feeling from others. Because they are terrified to admit they were played like a violin. Afraid for what it says about them.
I have no more patience left for them.
It is a bit of a tangent Sandy, but why did your husband go Democrat instead of Independent?
GA
Ken, whatever. My professor "who sat on the board of economic development under R.R." said these things - I'll go with his assessment. He's a conservative (no I will not give his name either. I protect my sources.))
Although I prefer not to get into debates, we are responsible for the world we live in - Jesus said, "give unto the emperor those things that belong to the emperor and give to God those things that are His."
One of the new shining leaders of the re-emphasized Civil Rights movement, Reverend Barber, actually has a church near here. I'm responsible for carrying a message of hope, and ain't nothing negative gonna shake that. .
Economics? NK? DJT (have hope for him, but sliding very, very, fast)
Separate children from their parents, quote me all the numbers you can find, (I can find numbers to counter those), it's what we do as humans.
But if your idea of acting in "love," (conservatives are big on the Bible), but implementing it's main commandment - not going to happen wholesale.
Love is only relative when its applicable to your agendas. Then, it's a twisted, distorted, dirty little thing.
grew up a few minutes from me. I'mI'm an amateur astrologer, myself. I found Trump's chart interesting, in that how the heck does someone win a presidential election when they are under a transit of Saturn opposite their natal Sun? Pottering around recently, I happened to look at Trump's progressed chart, in which Saturn is transiting his progressed midheaven. Makes sense now!
Yes, that would do it! I was in a rush since I didn't really want to spend the time on Trump. You can see how emotionally unstable he is with the Uranus aspects and Moon ones.
Who are YOU to say I'm wrong? That's ignorant. I support our President, he is doing a fantastic job for America, despite having his agenda being held back by the left side of politics.
More than 60% of the country say he is unfit to be president. His own Secretary of State called him a "moron".
Hard to see how he is being held back from the left when the right controls everything including the White House, Senate, House of Reps and Supreme Court.
But what do I know. I'm just "ignorant".
Otherwise, thanks for your opinion.The answer is obvious. Who do yo think controls the Democrats, the GOP in Congress? And who do you think is running the media, NYT, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN...?
Why is Trump so hated? He is the ultimate outsider...
If he succeeds, the American people wins and elites of Washington of K Street and Wall Street loses...
The donor class are shaking in their boots.
Simple as that.
Which side do you stand?He is despised for all of the reasons many people have stated over and over again. He is defended by people who refuse to believe that even his own Secretary of State called him a moron.
So what does that prove? Even if he did, so what? People have differences of opinion. I want a President to have different opinion at times with his cabinet. That is why we have cabinets. If they all agree all the time, why do we need them?
Do you think it's rational, professional or simply even wise for a Secretary of State to announce to a room full of people that his boss, the President of the United States, is a moron?
It certainly wasn't professional, and almost certainly not smart. Which in turn means it wasn't very rational, either.
No it is not wise. The story was reported by some journalist at CNN...
Among all the stuff that goes on around the world, this is what the news of the day?
Gime a break.By the way, just curious...
Has anyone ever called you a moron in all your life?
Who cares anyway...
Senator Corker had interesting things to say and doesn't plan to run again. Jacob Chaffetz, led investigation into HRC, quit in June.
Good point. Corker said three key officials are keeping Trump from creating "chaos" for the country. But he's only a Republican senator who used to support Trump -- before he got to know him.
Lest we forget the "f******G moron!" comment by Tillerson. There is supposedly a pact amont the rational actors.
I'm just surprised that Trump hasn't fired him for that one.
I follow Rex Tillerson on Twitter and he follows me. I was surprised when he followed me back. Here are a couple of his tweets:
Rex Tillerson @Secy_State_US Jul 7
More
Replying to @HEINSLERJAN
1-the election wasn't hacked
2-DNC failed to protect their server even after warned
3-@johnpodesta is an idiot who fell for a phishing scam
354 replies 198 retweets 406 likes
Reply 354 Retweet 198 Like 406 Direct message
Rex Tillerson @Secy_State_US 15h15 hours ago
More Rex Tillerson Retweeted Maxine Waters
What a DingbatRex Tillerson added,
Maxine WatersVerified account @RepMaxineWaters
Tillerson's plans are backfiring. Russia sanctions still in place, State is in shambles, & he discovered his boss is a moron. Bye Felicia!
18 replies 16 retweets 83 likes
Reply 18 Retweet 16 Like 83 Direct message
His favorite word is "Dingbat!" Dingbat is a synonym for "MORON!" His tweets show a different side of him.
President Trump is a patriot, he works for the American people who voted for him, not the special interest groups and donors who take advantage of us and our hard earned money. You are watching the wrong channel if you think he is not doing what needs to be done. You need to take a step back from your hate-mongering and look at the bigger picture. He is not politically correct by any means, and he doesn't coat everything with b.s. and that's what people aren't used to.
Totally agree. When he succeeds in a few years, all these naythsayers will have egg on their faces.
I'm not watching the wrong channel. I'm just watching Trump. He doesn't need the media to make him look back. He does it himself right in front of the cameras.
I realize we have different perspectives.
I loved seeing and hearing the Hispanic lady singing a praise and worship song at the WH today before the Hispanic Month event at the White House. Glory to God!
I don't watch TV, I watch the President via videos that have not been edited.Yes, I agree we have some pretty strong differences. I also agree with you that video can be edited down to the point where it loses important context. So I try not to jump to conclusions from brief clips.
That said, I also have seen longer videos that reveal a lot of his personality, such as the election debates, news conferences, etc. I try to base my opinions on those videos along with news from many sources (and not just TV) to get a more complete picture.I just wouldn't believe something like that unless I heard it with my own ears and saw it with my own eyes. With no proof whatsoever, I would be a fool and look like fool to accept it as fact. Its just not wise.
When asked by press about calling the President a moron, Tillerson, said he doesn't know where that kind of stuff comes from in Washington. He said it was meant to cause division, and that it was really beneath him to even talk about something so ridiculous. (This is not word for word).
It is made up fake news from some scripted lying liberal nut job. If people want to believe fake-crap and spew it...go for it!Many news sources confirm they got the information from people in the room with Tillerson. And Tillerson won't deny that he said it.
The "liberal" media is not making it up.I listened to Tillerson, a man of integrity. It was simply beneath him, and that most likely is how I would have handled it myself. You can believe the BS all you want, I won't love you any less.
Diane, that is a parody account on Twitter that you are trying to say is Rex Tillerson's.
Certainly agree about the idiot and dingbat.
That's pretty funny!
Congratulations on someone following you on Twitter.
It sure isn't Mr. Tillerson.
Face-palm.I challenge you to prove that it is a parody. i am aware of fake accounts. I checked this one before I followed. https://twitter.com/Secy_State_US
You checked? It says it is a parody acc.
It is Wayne Tracker's account. "Not_Secy_State"
Its a joke! ... April Fools!Diane, I was once taken in by a fake photo. Never happened again,as far as I know because I care about accuracy and the truth. I can see by how you conduct yourself here that you do, too.
Thank you Pretty! I immediately unfollowed the quack Tillerson and found the real one. Early on, people suggested that Tillerson would be in Russia's pocket. I can truly say I don't think so.
I am open to criticism. I want to convey the correct information and want to maintain the posture of a reasonable person.
Thank you for the encouragement!
Diane
Whatever, I don't buy it.
Humble yourself before God.
"apologize-and-repent"Here is a list of Trump's legislative accomplishments: 0. Here is a list of his ability to communicate with a Congress his party controls: minus 0. The Foreign Relations Chair is stating DJT's outrageous comments are heading us towards a Third World War. He had to do "executive action" to move forward on a health care plan which he cannot get through Congress.
The ones who need to move on are the ones who cannot accept that in the White House we have a president with anger issues, disrespect for his staff, and an inability to work with people. According to CNN and other sources, there is a "dark mood" which surrounds this man.- Onusonusposted 7 years ago0
Nothing to be sorry about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66HEDMLQOsIShe grates on my nerves big time. And WHY does she where those pearls every day?
Yup, she wears ugly pearls. But the economic recovery from eight years of Obama's failed policy is irrefutable.
Sorry, but Trump's done nothing to improve the already improving economy Obama's term created. I believe your statement is indeed refutable.
My house was upside down for all eight years of Obama, Now the market is through the roof.
When Democrats tell you that you are oppressed you'd better lay down and pretend to be oppressed.Oh, and the unemployment rate is at a 43 year low, the total number of laid off workers receiving unemployment benefits fell to 1.89 million, and new claims dropped by 15,000.
That's too wide of a gap. I would think year-to-year over a period time will give the story.
How do you know that the value has increased? My house decreased in value 50% in 2007-2008. It started climbing slowly up in 2009. I don't have a 100% recovery but it's about 80%. It didn't happen suddenly. It has constantly inched up since 2009.
Wow. Mine didn't decrease quite that much - more like 35-40% - but is now up nearly 30% over what it was in 2007. Based on appraisals for tax purposes; around here that is required by law to reflect market value. It's usually not too far off.
Mine was probably over-inflated because I'm in CA. This are has new housing developments all over the place. The zero down thing sent prices skyrocketing.
You're probably right. We never really had a "housing bubble" then - the market was strong but not outrageous. And right now it's up considerably - it's a sellers market all the way. Unusual to have a house on the market for more than a couple of months and prices are high. I expect it'll slow down in a year or two, though.
What will it look like for you, personally?
income, investments, value of property, etc.
I'd like to know my healthcare expenses will not rise. I retired last year and am in the midst of surgeries. I don't expect to see any income.
I love to listen to Sarah Sanders set the record straight. She does it so well, straight forward truth and facts....but it doesn't stop the presstitutes from continuing to spin and brainwash their viewers with their scripted narratives.
One Republican must have read this thread. Apparently, the Kool-Aid can wear off:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/14/opin … nytopinionIgnorant, schmignorant. You're just bloviating. Ten instances of obstruction? Come on, why not say 20, or 100, or 1,000,000? You're just regurgitating what you've heard from the msm. If he truly had such violations why hasn't he been indicted, impeached? You want us to explain your false accusations? Ok...well, I think I just did- they are false. you believe in falsehood so you repeat what you hear.
Like I said, ignorant. A sitting president cannot be indicted. The beginnings of the impeachment are underway, with Trump's obstruction of the whistleblower complaint to speed things up.
And apparently, you failed to read the Mueller report. That's where the ten instances of Obstruction of Justice are listed. I actually did read it, so before you go making some ignorant claims of where others get their information from, you may want to do some simple research first.
The beginnings of impeachment have been "underway" for 3 years. He won't be impeached. Obama should've been though for the Iran pay off alone. It isn't always what you read, but how you read it. You have "hate Trump" glasses on and you interpret everything you read through those lenses.
The "Hate Trump" accusation is another ploy of his fans, which obviously you are. It doesn't work though, just makes the fans feel better about their poor choice of a leader.
So you're saying Valeant doesn't hate Trump? You're saying the "accusation" is incorrect? Maybe we should ask him if he hates Trump since that's to whom my comment was directed. However, feel free to apply it to yourself as well. Trump is a great leader. His policies have reduced poverty in every minority class. Do you have a problem with that? More African Americans, more Hispanics, are now employed than they were under Obama, and you don't like that?
The unemployment rate under Obama dropped from 9.9% to 4.1%.
The rate under Trump has declined from 4.1% to 3.7% -- from a growing economy he inherited.
No big deal.that is absolute nonsense. You're telling me that during the first 7 and a half years of Obama's presidency saw unemployment rates at almost 10%, then during the last 6 months unemployment started to drop? Due to what Obama policy? I would say "nice try" but it wasn't. It was lame. It was weak. It is a dem talking point. Nothing you've said is true. Trump has opened the pipeline, refineries, turned America into an energy independent powerhouse, something both parties have been saying they'd do for 1/2 a century. Trump finally does it and you chalk it up to Obama's policies? Please. Get real. And by the way, it's folly to tell someone they need to apologize. A sincere apology is only sincere if a person offers it without being told to do so. How many apologies have you seen since your declaration for Trump supporters to give one? Zip, zero, nil, nada. What a waste of time. As I've said, the voters will make my case for me at the polls when Trump wins again in 2020. (That is if he isn't impeached- hahaha, right. Like that's going to happen.)
Not apologizing when one is clearly wrong shows their immaturity as well as their ignorance. But we already knew that...
Actually, the rate was 4.7 when Trump took over and is 3.7 now. It was a high of 10.0 in October of 2009. Obama lowered it 5.3 while Trump has brought it down 1.0. To give all the credit to Trump for the historically low minority employment numbers is moronic, at best.
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns14000000I don't think we can give credit to Trump for 4.7% in late January of 2017 when he took over the Presidency and had momentum from Obama.
To be clear, 4.1% was a bottom in 2017 and rose again. If we split the difference, the halfway point is 4.4%.
Of course it didn't drop all the way in one year. It took time to repair Bush's financial crisis.
https://www.thebalance.com/unemployment … ar-3305506
Iran payoff? It was their money that had been released after sanctions were lifted.
It’s important to know that little of that money was under the control of the United States or any U.S. bank. Most of it was in central and commercial banks overseas. Furthermore, it was Iran’s money to begin with, not a payment from any government to buy Iran’s cooperation.
Another 1.8 billion was paid out as the amount that U.S. and Iranian negotiators settled on to resolve an arms contract between the United States and Iran that predated the Iranian revolution in 1979. Iran had paid for military equipment, and it was never delivered.
As of 1990, there were $400 million in that account. Negotiators agreed that accrued interest would add $1.3 billion to the amount, which is a lot of money — but 25 years is a long time for interest to build up the balance.
Please, do some real research, For the love of God.Thanks for pointing out the same facts that these people have been told a hundred times before. You have great patience.
Sadly, they would rather believe propaganda than facts. They would rather support a traitor and racist than someone who respects the ideals of our country.So YOU are accusing people of spreading propaganda? Please! Trump has done more for the African American and Hispanic communities than Obama did in 8 years. The voters know this and will vote accordingly pending another dem attempt at a coup.
The money was released under the auspices of Iranian co-operation. The fact that one party has the capacity to freeze the assets of another calls into question who the real controller of those assets is. Research? Real research? Why don't you furnish me with some of your unbiased sources if they exist.
An arms agreement requires 2 sides to cooperate with each other.
Hard to understand how Iranian "cooperation" is somehow wrong if it stops nuclear arms proliferation.Because the government can freeze my assets should I break the law does not mean I do not own those assets. I can't believe you just tried to argue that.
Do a simple search on Iran payoff (your term). You can learn all about the money you claimed was a payoff. You spend enough time here, maybe you can read something factual before spewing your falsehoods.
You not only contradicted yourself, but also called yourself a moron. If it was 4.7 when Trump took over and it's now 3.7 and 3.7 is historically low for minority unemployment numbers, isn't it true that credit should go to the Trump administration since it dropped to 3.7?
Did you skip the elementary math I did there? Which is bigger? 5.3 or 1.0? Typically, when handing out credit, you give it to the person that had the greater affect to the thing you're discussing. Most educated people would say that a 5.3 drop is greater. But not you. Don't let those pesky factual numbers sway you away from that Obama hate and Trump worship. Got to admire that cult-like thinking.
And you see that link, that's called a verifiable site with actual data. Things you should research before making an argument. Things you had no clue about before beginning yours. Like I said, do more research, you'll sound more intelligent.ooh-wee, sounds like I touched a nerve. Yes, verifiable data demonstrating a lower unemployment rate under Trump than under Obama. You keep making my case for me. You're not an attorney are you?
I wonder why Trump supporters are always so angry.
You are being evasive, Leland. Why am I going to give Trump the credit for reducing the black unemployment stats by 1 percentage point while giving Obama no credit when reducing by 5 points during a period of economic crisis taking place while the GOP was at the helm?
No, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ;>
In making my court case, I could make the case that pumping a ton of money that we don't have (see the exploding deficit) into the economy would lower the unemployment rate that 1.0 point Trump accomplished. So by putting us into more debt, he achieved his goal of dropping the unemployment rate, while achieving similar results in GDP to what Obama had.What?!?! How’s Obama quadrupling our national debt to 16 trillion during his tenure compare to any $ Trump’s “pumping into the economy?” Real specific number by the way, “a ton of money”. How much is that exactly? The fact is I actually forgot why you and I even started talking. You totally missed my point in the first place, along with your disciples, that I wasn’t even talking about over all statistics for unemployment, which even if I were, Trump still reduced the figure by a full percentage point. I was talking specifically about minorities having lower unemployment rates under Trump, and they do. Had you read my post in its entirety youd’ve seen that, or maybe you conveniently chose not to see it so you could make your point, weak and untrue as it is. Here’s an article for you to ignore from Newsmax author Deroy Murdock in 2015. https://www.newsmax.com/Murdock/Blacks- … id/637479/
Under Obama in 2012 black Americans were at a staggering 17% unemployment rate! Now under Trump the unemployment rates for black Americans is down to 4.1%. Here’s an article from NPR begrudgingly admitting that fact. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/08/57655202 … -hispanics
It’s one thing to not like President Trump, but when his policies are working to help our countries disenfranchised and minorities all Americans should be thankful. Anything less is sick and that’s what you’re pushing- jealously, spite, hate, envy, and racial indifference. You should be at best embarrassed, but totally ashamed.Your Newsmax link really only considers data from Obama's first term. For most of that term, Obama was repairing the horrible economy left to him by Bush. Way to find the one article that completely disregards the historical context of what Obama inherited and then completely neglects his entire second term.
As for your claim that he quadrupled the debt to 16 trillion, well that's not even close either. Obama added $8.588 trillion, a 74% increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009. Trump plans to add $5.088 trillion to the debt in his first term. That's a 30% increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017. Yes, I had those numbers, and knew that Trump's yearly average, with a healthy economy is higher than Obama's when he had an economy on the brink of collapse.
And your facts about the black unemployment aren't even close to reality.
That 4.1% is wrong. The high, near 17% was at the beginning of Obama's first term when the economy left from Bush got really bad. Oh, and he cut the black unemployment rate in half, leaving it at 8% when he left office.
Here is the link to the actual numbers so you can argue with actual facts: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006
Most people might congratulate a President who inherited such a weak economy and then cut unemployment in half, black unemployment in half, and doubled the stock market. Why is that not a possibility for you to give credit to a president whose policies clearly helped our country's disenfranchised and minority populations? Is there something different about Obama that makes you unable to see these positives? Are you sick, spiteful, hateful, envious - or just embarrassed or ashamed to admit a black president did something good while in office?Obama didn’t help black people. He ignored them, lied to them, worked to widen the gap between blacks and whites and was himself, racist. Obviously you haven’t read his books or you’d know that. Nope, not ashamed of any black people that help our country, people like Colon Powell, John James, Frederick Douglass, Ben Carson, many others...just not Obama. Nothing you[ve said is true. Yours is a faux belief based on like arguments. You can quote all the spurious stats you want and I can throw actual ones at you and you’ll just ignore them with childish rants hidden behind web links. No matter how many statistics we go back and forth on the fact remains Obama is an evil man bent on destroying the values of our country. He is an abortionist, anti-God, anti American hate monger and you’re in his corner.
That's right, I correct all your incorrect information, citing the official government websites where the data is found, and yet, according to you, nothing I have said is true. I provide you a link to how Obama decreased the black unemployment rate from 16.8 to 8.0, and yet when Trump moves it from 8.0 to 5.5 (the actual current rate), Trump is a messiah and Obama did nothing to help black people.
Thank you for confirming the warped reality you live within. Can you not see how your arguments, when faced with the actual stats, don't make any sense at all?
Quick PS- You mock a 1% decrease under Trump, but if you were among the many thousands that 1% affected you’d be thankful.
My above response doesn’t even begin to discuss the fact that millions of minorities were able to get off food stamps, get higher wages, and buy homes. It’s all in the links I sent, if you like that sort of thing. Frankly, I don’t care much for cutting and pasting stats. I think its weak, but I know you like it. Enjoy.It's not mocking, it's putting it into context based upon a trend that was happening before Trump took office. Saying Trump is responsible for these things and Obama to blame for all the negatives of his first term completely ignores the context of where things were prior to them both taking office. Something Trump supporters are quick to do since they only drink the Kool Aid and believe the propaganda being fed to them.
Looking at the actual data is far from weak, it tells the whole story and allows those who can access it able to make accurate arguments and not regurgitate false propaganda being fed to them.
Oh joy! Resurrecting a two year old thread to rehash the same arguments . . .
Happy happy joy joy
GA
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