Everyone hates the "rich" and I do not understand why. I was always under the impression the American dream was to become successful and stay successful? SO why are we always trying to punish the rich?
I dont hate rich people. I admire people who work hard and accomplish thier goals. If thats money, then good for them.
I don't hate the rich. My husband and I are on our way and happily so.
People who are jealous hate rich people. Or even if they're not jealous they're not satisfied with their lot in life.
What makes you think "everyone hates the rich"? Expecting them to pay their taxes and conduct their business honestly, and not screw their customers and shareholders, isn't an indication that anybody hates the rich.
me again mr. deeds. i agree they should pay their fair share of taxes and be honest business people. but is charging them with a higher % of taxes just because they are rich fair. why don't we all pay the same percentage.me at 7,500 a year paying 10% will only cost me 750 bucks. for the guy making 7,500,000 a year he will only have to pay 750,000 bucks. if everyone pays the same rate, then it's fair. but for me to pay nada and maybe get some back i did not pay, and the rich guy pays 40% or more is not fair.
me at 7,500 a year is an accurate account of my income and i have refused all stimulus monies. rich men have hired my children who are very successful in their adult lives. they have spouses, children and great jobs. if you tax the rich too much, they will leave the country. then who will hire the new kids coming up?
That was a horrible reply. You may be taking your oqwn feelings out on this Hubber. I'm sure you understand that good people become rich if they earn it. Nothing was said about taxes, conducting business without ethics, screwing customers and shareholders.
Does the owner of this site qualify as "the rich?"
I personally thought Ralph's response was reasonable. I don't hate the rich per se, but I don't think anyone really does - well, perhaps some anarchists - but I think that we'd like to see the rich take care of their responsibilities as owners of most of the property... pay their taxes, not screw over the public, their shareholders, or society as a whole...
It seems that the person posting the question sees restricting the actions of the rich, as "hating" the rich, when most of us just want them to not benefit from the misfortune of others - which seems to be the American business climate especially since the housing bubble burst, but even before that.
I hate the rich in the sense that I don't like a multi-billion dollar company without the common good in mind controlling large aspects of how society works, or abusing it's position in society to accumulate more wealth from poor people. I do not hate them because they have money, but I do hate those that have so much money because of abuse of power or position etc and still aren't satisfied with several million dollars a year..
Personally I consider anyone making more than $100,000 a year rich - I don't even know what I would do with all that money - I would assume I'd give about 25% of it to charity or a non-profit that I care about, or start a charity of my own to provide beds for homeless people... but that's me showing my bloody heart
too many of the now rich people may have started out genuinely honest, but became corrupt and played a role in perpetuating the "systems" that have punished the innocents of society...look at the problems in the shrinking middle class....if it keeps up this way soon there will be only the poor servant class and the rich.
How can you say this? You hate me? Think I'm corrupt? Because I am wealthy, and my friend, have been for some time.
You insult me but don't know me, this to me demonstrates your message is much deeper than you reveal. Jealousy is ugly and the rich do many good things to help other people.
How do you feel about the poor? Should we hate them?
Thank you for your insults and opinions on what you think the rich are.
I am none of those, yet wonder does my money effect you for different reasons?
At least be honest, that I can respect, but not in the form of generalizing a group of people you must not be part of. It's irrelevant, offers no difference between us here in a forum that isn't real.
I hope you find an answer to rid your hate as it is unjustified and insulting directly to me.
the vile you feel is your own. not mine.
I perceive what I perceive from my own life's experiences and study...and from my perspective "some" have done as I have stated. I did not attack you. I stated my opinion of "some" from what I have seen...why are you so offensive? is there something you may not be aware of?
peace is unto those with peace of mind...I am at peace.
you are at peace? Then why start the thread?
Nothing you are saying has any actual substance.
But then again you could buy some on sale.
And I very much take your judgements as insults.
Enjoy your evening
On my thread "Playing doctor on Hubpages" you said many things in many posts with no substance. You may take insult to this however it's true. We who live in glass houses...
Relax Deborah, you have been ignorant to me since the first time you could.
Hey Deb, ignore me, your thread was ridiculous and was highjacked by the second page. However awesome once things changed. That's what your upset about as I was not the only one there.
Wish you could take a risk and laugh at the ridiculous. To each his own.
Do not address me and I will willingly respect the same as we have nothing to share or in common, trust me.
Judge me to others as you do, just don't waste my time, I'm too busy making no sense. Gratefully
Wrong person here.....Clear?
And my name is Deborah not Deb. Especially to you.
Yes I know, My thread got interesting once it was turned to sex issues!!
You may not have been the only one but you are the only one who stated my comments and the comments of the writer of this thread
had no substance. Talk about no substance...
and sorry your not rich.
last post we exchange.
Why do you think her remark was directed at you? Well, as someone said, if the shoe fits, wear it.
cheap shot, nice twist, it's not one person I am speaking for a group of people, like hating people that wear hats because they usually come across as righteous?
This is hilarious it's a forum, not real life.
Chill man and back off, I don't even know you, but what I have heard you post at times is quite smart. Don't ruin that for me by assuming to make an example out of me. I am incapable of letting anything go.
Enjoy your evening and thank you for your input, Im not being sarcastic.
SparklingJewel said many not all.
Did you really take this as an insult? or did you want everyone to know or think you are wealthy?
how do you know im wealthy? believe me? you'll never know but clearly pulled out the cats
like anyone cares who has what
and lmao you believe everything anyways
im really a man
I couldn't care less who you are honestly.
How do I know you are wealthy? I don't. It is what you were saying. But as stated..who cares.
People who are honest tend to believe others. Those who are liars think everyone else is.
So I did believe you wanted us to think you are wealthy by the fit you threw.
"too many of the now rich people may have started out genuinely honest, but became corrupt"
And your proof of this is that they are rich? Got a nice little circle goin' there...
Whether or not "they started out honest" is uncertain, but the newspapers are full of examples of unethical actions by drug companies, bankers, insurance companies, CEOs ranging from Enron to Madoff to Goldmine Sucks.
They are also full of 'unethical' and criminal behavior by poor people. Maybe being rich isn't the issue. Maybe people just suck in general.
Poor people commit crimes, sometimes out of desperation, which affect a few people. Goldman and the Wall Street Banks, the drug companies, the health insurance companies do things that harm millions.
Ah, 'poor crime' is just out of desperation (victims, victims everywhere) and really not so bad - what's a few murders, rapes, arson, theft, etc. among friends? After all, they were 'forced' to do it just like illegal aliens are 'forced' to violate the border and gang bangers are 'forced' to kill old people and terrorize neighborhoods and druggies are 'forced' to take whatever.
It's those darn rich folks that are really evil! They must be punished!!!!!!
Why do you constantly put people in certain industries down? I have known many CEO's and founders of large corporations. Most are extremely ethical and want to be good to their employees.
An Uncle started a screw, nut and bolt distributorship in the 1950's. He began business in his garage. They became the second largest distributorship of their kind in the world.
A teenage boy living next door to his house used to do odd jobs for he. He swept the garage,kept things in place, etc. Eventually my Uncle retired and this formerly young boy was named CEO. I forgot to mention that this "kid" never went college. He maintained the position for ten years.
My Uncle employeed hundreds, and knew as many of his employees as possible. He is one of the finest philanthropists Chicago will ever know. He was a person that listened to the news, and gave money to anyone in need. He never let his name be known.
I put the banksters down because their actions brought down the world economy, the drug companies because they bribe our congressmen and medical schools and bugger the research and efficacy of their products (Pfizer and Merck have paid BILLIONS to settle government charges and lawsuits over potentially criminal charges, without admitting or denying guilt of course; also Pfizer was one of the "major corporations" that graciously picked up the tabs for Charlie Rangel and associates Caribbean vacations.),and the oil, coal and electric power companies have spent millions on propaganda denying global climate change, using some of the same tactics and consultants that brought us "cigarettes are good for your health," and the health insurance companies because they try to insure only healthy people, cancel policies based on technicalities when people need benefits and avoid paying benefits based on fine print exclusions in their policies. Several of their CEOs have escaped jail for backdating their bloated stock options and/or cooking their books only by disgorging billions in un-earned compensation.
Harvey, if you doubt this, check my "Crook Alert" hubs which document the depredations of the drug and insurance industries.
Note: I recognize that the drug company research has provided us with many life saving drugs. The health insurance companies are pure, non-value added parasites.
and what, the newspapers aren't corrupt. come on they are dying and will do anything for a story.
The financial condition of the newspapers has nothing to do with my point. Your response is nonsensical, to put it politely. You must be a fan of the National Enquirer. Suggest you try reading a good newspaper for a change.
Everybody knows the poor criminals only commit crimes because of the ultra rich keeping em down, right Ralph?
Perfect. Couldn't agree more. How smart is he Tex, I'm impressed.
you noticed the circle too, sab. it's easy to blame someone else for ones failures. it's very hard to blame ones self and even harder to learn from it and fix the problem. people should take their freedom and run with it. never give it up for a nice little appeasement check from big brother. take the check, leave soul for collateral.
who are the "innocents" of society? are we not all born in this country with the same rights? don't we all share the same advantages of a free country? anyone who really wants success can have it with freedom. come up with an idea, formulate a plan to market that idea and find people who will back that idea. don't believe me, ask bill gates. oh yeah, he was taxed so much he left the country then sold microsoft. he is brilliant
This is true, and we should not condemn those who have honestly acquired their wealth. We live in an age of "entitlement", which is dangerous and is progressing the downfall of society. More and more people choose to live off of government assistance rather than to prepare, in times of plenty, to be self reliant during hard times. It's the easy way and requires little work. This creates a state of apathy and intense jealousy for those who are doing well. This is the fostering and solidifying of pride. Pride, in essence, is the root virus that kills society. The freedoms we enjoy are there to support our happiness, and happiness is directly linked to our self reliance. Happiness comes through work. We should be celebrating and congratulating the honest hard worker rather than condemning them. Whether financially rich or poor, as long as you maintain honest and true integrity, you will always be rich beyond treasure.
and with that i salute you. though i have never been financially successful, i've 2 great kids with 4 grandkids and they are all doing much better than i ever did. i instilled in them hard work, and the mindset of earning everything they have. my son, a hero during the kosavo "war" and 10 year navy veteran is now working for a friend who also was taught the value of hard work. he owns his business and can afford to pay my son and others a good days wage for a good days work.
I feel your pain. I can only dream of financial independence. I barely make $30,000 a year and I have four kids. However, in these times I have developed the discipline to prepare for times of "less fortune." I have learned to cheaply acquire food storage. I have learned skills for basic survival in emergency situations. All these things we are responsible for, and as heads of households it is our duty to implement these practices in our own families.
Huh. You must be rich. I thought it was the rich that hated everyone that wasn't rich.
Like the way corporations take out life insurance policies on their employees and call them Peasant Policies.
Or the way they want to pay illegal aliens to work for less than minimum wage.
Or the way they want to deny human beings health care, just because they are poor and haven't had a good education.
I don't hate rich people, I want to be one, so I can help other people and not have to worry about my own family.
It's just weird to hear statistics that 5% of the country have 99% of the money. I may be off on those stats, but not by much.
Stereotyping people, rich or poor is very sad and insulting.
That is true. I try to remind my kids of that, and here I am doing it. But I guess it is how a lot of people think, and sometimes I get sick and tired of having to be PC.
I don't intend to insult anyone. That is why I used specifics.
It's just our Opinions, right?
People hate the rich a majority of the time due to pure ignorance, they don't realize that while they pay a moderate amount into the 'tax pool' if you will, the rich dump half their incomes into it to allow our country with the luxuries it has.
In your dreams Mike!
We have had many multi-millionaires leave their own country to find a lower tax rate, and many pay little tax at all. The first person employed when money starts to flow is a tax consultant who structures the company to avoid paying as much tax a is legal, and that could be all of it!
When my small company started making good net, I was paying 49 cents in the dollar.
My richer friend owning 35 commercial properties worth some 30 million paid none. Not a dime!
Watch into the wild.
ge\reatest movie i've seen in a long time. About the beauty of nature, and the pain and suffering of society.
LOL, anyone with Jesus in their name ought to know why.
"It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
"everyone" doesn't do anything ever simultaneously, otherwise loads of Chinese people would have jumped and sunk us all by now!
but I digress, nobody actually hates anyone else on the basis of their bank balance, surely? That kind of bias is so bizarre it's more suited to the religious forums!
Really...That's the American Dream? to be Rich? No. the American Dream was to be successful enough to have a car, a home and a family one could support while being a good American Citizen, paying taxes, helping one's community and doing charitable works. being Rich is like being pumped up on Steroids. Are you strong? Yes. Are you enraged? Probably. Are you feeling paranoid? Oh yeah! Being on steroids is not the same as being strong through hard work and exercise. I don't hate the Rich. What I hate is that they refuse to pay their fair share of taxes, do everything they can to get out of work, make sure they lord it over people who are not rich, and are ostentatious, threatening and totally insecure. They are not "successful. They may be lucky. Lucky the IRS hasn't got to them yet. But you can be enriched. or you can be Madhoff Rich. If you are rich from ripping off the poor, the unhealthy, the vulnerable, then yes, I hate you. If you are rich through hard work, and you are a good person. Then no I don't hate you. But getting rich at any cost is NOT the American Dream.
Jack K, why don't you start with the CEO of Goldmine Sucks, Mr. Blankfein?
Well, if you own them, would you mind sending just one my way for my own personal use? My problem is that I don't hate *them* so much as I hate the emptiness of my own bank account...if I owned just one rich person, I'm sure that wouldn't be as much of a problem
Depends how they got their wealth.
There is a difference between earned and inherited wealth. I hate anyone who never had to work to achieve their wealth, especially if they are personally lazy, self-centered, self-indulgent, and ignorant. But to generalize all heirs/heiresses as such is also wrong. It's an individual thing.
I'm in the upper tax bracket, and in my experience it is jealousy.
That is a very generall statement to make and I don't believe "everyone" hates the rich. Many people struggle to know what they want in life and therefore do not succeed. Some may look at the rich with jealousy not understanding why that person has so much money while they have to struggle. At the end of the day, everyone has the capability to become rich. But who says everyone is even interested in that from a monetary perspective? There is more to being rich than money. I know many middle class or even lower class people that are rich with family and life experience and do not hate the rich and they are very happy. Are there rich snobby people? Absoultely! However, there are also many wonderful rich people that help those less fortunate than them.
I love rich...money is power and how one uses it makes all the difference...
It is based upon envy. There are people who hate the rich because they are living the lifestyle that they wish they were living. There are still others who contend that any sort of wealth is evil. They have a negative attitude towards money, contending that being poor, even impoverished is a part of being an authentic human being. These people believe that struggle & want are best for the human character. They feel that wealth makes people weak & indulgent. They have what is called inverse logic. Poverty is good while wealth is bad, even evil.
Why you generalize ? I don't hate rich people. In fact a lot of my friends are.
Well, the guy who started the thread is convinced that Joseph Stack is some kind of Patriotic hero.
gotta love some of these threads
and what about hating the poor? They're people too
Oh, I hate the poor, everybody should belong to some group so we can all hate, nothing like a good hate!
maybe your right. let's hate them all. rich poor and in between. wouldn't want to be called a racist or bigot or segregationist or some kind of ist.ewww i hate it when someone calls me and "ist" word
No they are not - there are not enough rich people to have several as friends ! You probably have many friends with a lot of money but less than 3% of people own 90% of the wealth - Rich is not loads of dosh it is double shitloads, like billions and billions - I may have the numbers a bit wrong but it is of that order. People with shitloads are the people who work for the very very rich while the irrelevant 50% of people get too little money and some food stamps or whatever.
Part of the problem is that we don't see 'them' any more - the Traders took over from the Royalty and Barons who used to ride around in gangs to get the taxes from the villages while they raped the virgins and did whatever else they liked. Nothing has changed except it is now hidden away.
Peace love and jellybabies to you - and I prefer your new avatar, it kinda looks like you mean business
i like the guys with double shitloads of money. they hire idiots like you and keep you off welfare,that is if you want a job
Nice to know that I am idiot from someone like you - whoever you are - but I am not on welfare, and I have a really good job without bending for the dollar the way you seem to like it, and I have been rich enough and poor enough in my time to know the difference between.
who said anything about hating the rich or punishing the rich?
one thing many people are unhappy with is the fact the rich have many loopholes to get out of paying their fair share of taxes - is that hatred? is paying their fair share of taxes a punishment? I don't think so on either count.
The American Dream means different things to different people.
It doesn't always include being rich.
They already pay way more then their fair share of taxes. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tax. But everyone wants to punish the rich by raising their taxes even more. Why should they be punished for their hard work?
did you not read my entire post?
The rich are SUPPOSED to pay more taxes, obviously, because they have more, but...have MANY LOOPHOLES to get OUT of paying - therefore, the not so rich end up paying MORE than the RICH.
I would say it isn't the rich people are unhappy with. It is the laws that allow the rich to get out of paying their fair share of taxes.
Yes I read what you said and even with the loopholes that all of us can use including the rich, the rich still pay way more then their fair share of taxes. Why should anyone in this country have to give up almost 40% of their income to taxes?
the loopholes I am referring to obviously cannot be used by anyone other than the rich due to the fact someone who earns less than $50,000 / yr cannot afford to spend $5,000,000 on a home, & own a yacht, & own 5 cars worth over $ 100,000. (I am sure there are more but seeing as I am not rich, I would not be aware of them)
some one making less then $50,000 a year pays next to nothing in taxes. Unless they are making a lot of mistakes on their taxes they will get most if not all of their income tax back at the end of the year.
SO once again why should the rich pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes then other people. Why should they be punished for making money? Why do you hate the rich?
did you just win the lottery or something? and hold a grudge? lol
I never said I hate the rich! YOU JUST DID.
Why should the rich be able to get out of paying their fair share of taxes? Let's say someone making $50,000 / yr bought a yacht. They would not get the same loopholes as the above mentioned rich person. That does not sound like fair & equal taxation to me.
I disagree with the statement, 'some one making less then $50,000 a year pays next to nothing in taxes" in light of one thing: bonuses. During the Clinton era legislation was passed to increase the taxation of all bonuses to 40%. Having made less than 32,000/year at the time (while supporting a stay at home wife and two children) I definitely was not in the $50,000 and up crowd.
They should pay more because they derive greater benefit from a stable government and society than do the poor. For instance, the rich have more property to defend, therefore they should pay a greater percentage of the military budget. Businesses run by the rich also benefit more from government investments in infrastructure such as roads, bridges, schools, airports, etc.
They should pay more because they derive greater benefit from a stable government and society than do the poor. For instance, the rich have more property to defend, therefore they should pay a greater percentage of the military budget. Businesses run by the rich also benefit more from government investments in infrastructure such as roads, bridges, schools, airports, etc.
SO poor people do not benefit from a stable government?
"For instance, the rich have more property to defend, therefore they should pay a greater percentage of the military budget." So you put a higher value on property then freedom? I sure don't and we all should share the cost of our freedom equally.
"Businesses run by the rich also benefit more from government investments in infrastructure such as roads, bridges, schools, airports, etc."
I guess you never use roads bridges and such?
I would agree on a usage tax there for I would not have to pay for schools since I do not use them and have no children in them and I would not have to pay for medicare that I do not use
not only do they get all their taxes back, but the ones making 0 dollars and living off the system get about 2,000 bucks back in "earned income credit" for each rugrat they have. i saw one couple, both on welfare with 2 kids get almost 5 grand back in taxes. they did not work a single day that year.
How hard is it to inherit a fortune? Most rich people are rich because their parents already had the money...
as far as your percentages go...if 80% of the country is on food stamps, then 20% pays the taxes because that 20% has all the money.
"Most rich people are rich because their parents already had the money..."
I suppose you can back up this claim?
The first paragraph of that link:
Wealth in America throughout History
Who are the richest people in America and how much are they worth ?
The question is common and well answered by such first rate business publications as the Forbes 400 and the Fortune Billionaires editions.
But what about the past ? The American elite is constituted by a closely knit tissue of interrelated dynasties founded by the business leaders of three generations ago or earlier.
"A Classification of American Wealth" is an attempt to relate economic history to the genealogies of our leading families and to uncover what may be considered America's moneyed aristocracy.
I checked it out and it doesn't prove your claim. If your assertion is that most rich people are members of these families then prove it, so far you have provided a list of wealthy families and nothing more.
ok a list of wealthy families doesn't prove that most rich families are the same rich families? That they pass their fortune down to their children, some of whom add to that wealth...
If the wealth doesn't get passed from parents to children then where does it go exactly?
Carnegie donated most of his wealth to various foundations and charities. Even if he wanted to leave some or all of his fortune to his children, that's his business, not yours or mine. There are good arguments to not leave a fortune to people, as it tends to corrupt, but in the end it's your money so you decide where it goes.
You are not following this at all!
You said MOST of the rich in this Country are only rich because of their family money! I say bullshit! I say a minority of rich people are rich because of their family money, prove me wrong!
prove your point, show me how the money keeps changing hands, show me the lists of ex-rich people...
I have shown you the lists of inheritance, which supports my point of view, dismissing it out of hand does not make it go away.
Provide your proof to counter mine. That's how debate works.
I dont know, my grandmother had over a million in the bank when she died. I got not a penny.
How many kids did your grandmother have?
Taxes were probably half of the million so 500,000 divided by 4 equals 125,000 each... a house and a car and it is all gone...but it went to her kids.
Oh, Im sure taxes did a number!!! and my mom was one of her kids. Like I said, it was big mess, but no way did she get a house or a car. My point was..not every wealthy parent passes on thier money. Maybe that was irrelevant anyway? I still dont hate the rich. I do hate greed.
That's a load. If we went by the author's definition of wealth being tied up in a handful of small families, the Randolphs and Mathers would be trillionaires by now. The fact of the matter is that due to our (mostly) free market system, the names and faces of great wealth are constantly changing. A century ago the wealthiest Americans were Morgan, Rockefeller and, later, Ford. Today that list doesn't include those names at the top but names like Gates, Buffet and Winfrey.
So your assumption that the wealth of the United States is controlled by a few ponied interests is patently false. Once again envy raises it's ugly head.
I suppose you are correct to some degree, but children can't pick their parents or which family they are born into.
Look at Paris Hilton for example, she certainly was born into money, but her great-grandfather Conrad Hilton was the son of immigrants and worked in his father's general store in New Mexico. Warren Buffett also worked at his grandfather's grocery store as a child. So somewhere down the line somebody worked hard for the money. And look at Oprah Winfrey and Bill Gates, they certainly weren't born rich.
rich parents are the reason the kids are rich?? let me tell you about inheritance. my son in law is a farmer. for 5 generations the family has owned this farm. they pay their taxes every year. when his grandfather died, he left $10 million to the family in money and land. don't forget, he paid taxes on the income and property taxes on the land all his life. the federal government took 55% of the value of the inheritance in the "death tax." so out of the 10 million the family only got 4.5 million, on which they had to pay an income tax on. the rich really pay big time
Hard work? You mean like stealing the pension funds of people who really do work hard? Or like spending billions on lobbying the political hacks in Washington to kill health care reform while pocketing the "savings" by kicking sick people off of their insurance or hiking rates so only the wealthy, who don't need health care insurance, can take home million dollar bonuses? You mean like that? The people who derive their income from health insurance are living on blood money. The rich health care CEOs show up to a few meetings to decide who must die or be out of work so that he/she can get a little bit richer. The wealth enjoyed by the rich was earned by the sweat of real working people who, according to the wealthy, should be willing to work as slave labor so that CEOs can get wealthier. Wall Street boneheads drive the economy into the ground and still get "incentives" in terms of big bonuses. Level the playing field. If you don't do your job well, you get FIRED, like the rest of us. CEOs think that they have to have big bonuses to "work" at all. Why not really put things out on a level playing field? The amount of wealth you accumulate should be decided on merits, not on who's daddy knows the richest people who can strong arm him into public office or corporate regency. You really are a bunch olf dumbasses!
Well you are talking about crooks here.
There will always be greedy crooks in the world who will never have enough no matter how much they get. Look at Bernie Madoff, I mean seriously, how much is enough? It's OK to hate those that rip us off, but not everyone who has a large bank account is a crook.
You may not want to hear this or believe it, but money does trickle down from the people who make the jobs to the people who work the jobs, and when small business owners who some people might define as rich can't afford to pay their employees, well it doesn't take a degree from Harvard to guess what happens...
You don't have to be a CEO to rip people off, you can just be a gang member selling drugs on the street corner and getting rich off of other people's misery.
Let's look at Bernie Madoff. How many friends did he burn? Jail time aside, who do you think is ever going to trust the man with their money again. Madoff pretty much committed suicide. He'll be lucky to get a job a McDonald's when it's all said and done. Which is exactly what needs to happen to people who perpetuate a fraud. He didn't even need to serve any jail time to suffer the consequences of his actions.
52,000 of the richest Americans have secret Swiss bank accounts in order to avoid paying U.S. taxes. The CEO and managers at Goldmine Sucks walked away with $70 billion of the taxpayers money that was laundered through AIG by Bush and company. Lots of people hate Goldman and the Wall Street banksters who have been cheating their credit card customers and rolling the dice with all kinds of derivatives (which Buffett calls financial instruments of mass destruction) and then asking the taxpayers to bail them out.
That AIG fiasco was overseen by Tim Geithner, his protests notwithstanding, he was head of the NY Fed, he should have known. And now this guy runs the Treasury. So either he knew and approved, making him scum or he didn't know making him incompetent. Joy.
I have absolutely nothing against the rich. I wish one day I could be there. With the exception of a few who were born with a silver spoon these people have worked very hard to become rich.
I hope one day when I get rich (cracking up laughing) people will not hate me for my efforts.
I wish you luck on your goal of being rich and if you make it people will hate you. they will be jealous because you made it and they were never willing to put forth the hard work and effort it took you to make it.
well, there are some rich people like Paris Hilton who never had to work for their money, therefore, they don't appreciate it, and they flaunt their wealth, so i can see where that might annoy people.
and as much as i can't stand Donald Trump, i admire him being a self-made man. and as much as i dislike Oprah, i also admire her for making such a huge success and starting with nothing. in those three cases, it is their personalities that bother me. they all seem arrogant, and my dislike has nothing to do with how rich they are. we all have the same opportunity in this country, and we all start with nothing. some of us start with less than nothing. so i don't hate the rich, but some rich people like the three i mentioned here annoy me but for their personalities, not their wealth.
because most of the rich people from the past used to slave others in order to get wealth.
today they do that as well but they use different names. low salary and high profits, specially companies that go to under developed countries.
Being rich isn't inherently bad. Most of us wouldn't mind being rich one bit.
It's just that rich people give being rich a bad name
I am not rich by any means but I do make a very good salary for the area in which I live and I do get some attitude for some people at times or just little remarks, even some of my close friends make these remarks sometimes. So I'm 25 and make $86,000 a year, own a home have three cars and go on great trips if I want and when I want, yes I do have a pretty good life. I don't think they hate me...they are envious most likely, but hate?? I don't hate rich people unless they have that "I'm better than you attitude"...and many of them do!
i think it comes down to opportunity. You took the opportunity and are doing well. Congratulations! I'm envious of you LOL but I have to remember, I chose a different path.
Considering where my life started at I have come a long way from that place...I did work to get to where I am now. I try to do some good from my fortunate position and donate to charity and volunteer when I can. If more of the ultra rich would do more humanitarian type work maybe they would be looked at differently?
You had the opportunity & took it. Nothing wrong with that.
I believe it always takes plenty of work if you aren't born rich & dont win the lottery, some people go for it, others dont - for whatever reasons. I dont mean laziness or anything like that, but I think some people dont go for it due to "unobvious" reasons.
but i think you might be right. if the ultra rich were more "charitable" or "humanitarian" they would probably be thought of as more generous than selfish.
StormRyder... would you be my sugar momma? j/k...
I once again will start back earning six figures after regaining employment... My investment banking (IB) friends earned some pretty large bonuses this year.
One of my buddies with two years of post-MBA IB experience took home a $250K of bonus on top of his 6 figure+ base. However, I do not consider him to be rich. The CEO of his company is rich and pocketed a $17M bonus.
I would have went into IB instead of management consulting if I could work 100+ hours a week consistently just for the bonus payouts.
A lot of people who are thought of as "rich" are small business owners who create jobs. Sports figures and entertainers are often nothing more than corporations employing a small army of people. Also, many "rich" people give lots and lots of money to charity. Unless you're really a big time crook, everybody pays taxes, and the rich pay more than anybody else.
Last time I looked this was still America and we all have the ability to become as rich as we can in this country. Many rich people didn't start out that way. They worked hard for it and moved up in a corporation, or started their own business and put in long hours sacraficing to get where they are. If they were lucky enough to be born with a talent other people will pay them lots of money for, or they invented something, I say good for them.
If people hate the rich, it's just sour grapes and they are just jealous of what they think rich people's money can buy. Well that's just a waste of time. If you're not happy with your financial status, go out and change it.
Go out and change your financial status if your not happy with it.
I agree with this statement, but at the same time, I realize some people struggle more than others and may not be able to for whatever reason. Such as: During my marriage it was next to impossible. Why? Cuz my ex couldn't handle money & was too controlling for me to go to college in order to get a good paying job. I have been divorced 10 years and my financial situation has not improved much. But I'm still working on it!!
Well, of course I understand circumstances play a role in every aspect of a person's life. My point was only that we do have some control over what happens to us and we make our choices, which we have to live with.
You may have had some financial setbacks because of your ex, but the point is... you are working on changing that and not just sitting around giving excuses for your situation and hating a whole class of people for having different circumstances than yours.
Hate is a very strong word and perhaps jealous is more accurate ,however the more money we have the more we can spend on the professionals advising us of the right way to make our money work for the better wether it's taxes,investments or other . I mean just look at Monaco , rich people choose to live there as they have a tax free haven , but you need bucks to live there .
I don't think people in general hate the rich, I think most people, rich or not, dislike certain types of people who flaunt their wealth and have an "in-your-face" or "look-at-what-I-have" attitude. That's just rude and low class and has really nothing to do with being rich. It has more to do with their feeling inferior and using what wealth they have to, in turn, try and make themselves appear superior to others. I don't blame anybody for hating those kinds of people. In fact, I'll join that club any day.
I stood in a front yard with a woman who was deciding the color to paint her house. She said she felt guilty about spending so much money on refurbishing the old mansion.
I pointed out the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, painters, etc and told her,"I think it is wonderful...you are creating jobs for all of these people...making it possible for them to support their families."
She got a tear in her eye and said,"Thank you...I never would have thought of looking at it that way."
She deserved to be wealthy...she was creating jobs with her wealth.
I don't but you are right, there is a lot of jealousy and hatred aimed at very wealthy people.
In America's society:
Top Upper 1% controls 95% or more of the wealth.
Top 20% of America's Society are Millionaires.
The Homelessness stats - 13.5% are considered homeless, which equates to about 40+ Million citizens, with just over 700,000 beds for people.
The Starvation stats - 10% are struggling for food everyday.
The "Business" aspect- Charitable/Non-profits spend less than 1% of total revenue on what they "claim" to provide for citizens. The Federal standard is a business must spend at a minimum 5% of total revenue. Which isn't happening.
Want a reason for why the "rich" are clumped together? You now have it. Most of these people are not generous, but manipulative. They spend "billions" on advertising, marketing, yet do next to nothing to actual assist or help others.
Example: Billionaire Bill Gates donates $7,000,000,000.00 to his Wife's Foundation for Cancer Research and Development. BUT, the Foundation spend LESS than 1% on what's claimed.
How is this true growth or advancement? It's detrimental and slowing down any growth of life for citizens or anything else.
The Walton family had five family members in the top ten richest in America: A WAL-MART Worker may donate money from their paycheck to the CRITICAL NEED FUND, a program to aid other employees in times of crisis, like a fire or tornado.
In 2004, WAL-MART Employees gave OVER $5 MILLION to help fellow workers
Source: Form 990, Wal-Mart Associates in Critical Need Fund, 2004
The Walton Family gave $6,000
I don't hate rich people. I don't even know any rich people. Am I jealous of rich people? Sometimes, yes. Do I wish I was rich? Yes.
Awesome, let's open up this can of worms. The reason some people hate the rich and want to bring them down is envy. Nothing more, nothing less. I have nothing against someone who chooses a path of poverty, if they're happy with that choice, more power to them. What I do have a problem with are the whiner losers who constantly complain about how hard it is to get ahead or how the deck is stacked against them. Tell it to the Marines.
What we have now in this country, pure and simple, is class warfare. Certain members of the lower class, not all but some, are bound and determined to destroy all concentrations of wealth, no matter the consequences. Meanwhile, the wealthy, in order to protect themselves, fight their fight. The arena? Politics. Meanwhile Rome is burning and both these groups are fiddling while the country collapses.
Do these people come from old money?
This list of names is considerably longer than your provided family names, isn't it?
This is a partial list of Tech Millionaires!
me (Company) Net Worth Change From 2008
#1 (#3) William Gates III (Microsoft) $40.0 billion -$18.0 billion
#4 (#14) Larry Ellison (Oracle) $22.5 billion -$2.5 billion
#17 (#65) Michael Bloomberg (Bloomberg) $16 billion +$5 billion
#29 (#40) Michael Dell (Dell) $12.3 billion -$4.1 billion
#26 (#32) Sergey Brin (Google) $12 billion -$6.7 billion
#26 (#33) Larry Page (Google) $11 billion -$4 billion
#29 (#43) Steven Ballmer (Microsoft) $11 billion -$4 billion
#32 (#41) Paul Allen (Microsoft) $10.5 billion -$5.5 billion
#68 (#110) Jeffrey Bezos (Amazon) $6.8 billion -$1.4 billion
#119 (#142) Eric Schmidt (Google) $4.4 billion -$2.2 billion
#132 (#109) Rupert Murdoch (News Corp.) $4 billion -$4.3 billion
#146 (#87) Charles Ergen (EchoStar) $3.9 billion -$5.6 billion
#156 (#120) Pierre Omidyar (Ebay) $3.6 billion -$4.4 billion
#178 (#189) Steven Jobs (Apple) $3.4 billion -$2 billion
#196 (#236) John Sall (SAS Institute) $3.1 billion -$1.3 billion
#205 (#277) George Lucas (LucasArts) $3.0 billion -$0.9 billion
#246 (#288) Gordon Moore (Intel) $2.6 billion -$1.1 billion
#261 (#462) David Sun (Kingston Technologies) $2.5 billion 0
#261 (#462) John Tu (Kingston Technologies) $2.5 billion 0
#296 (#446) Mark Cuban (Broadcast.com) $2.3 billion -$0.3 billion
#296 (#307) Ray Dolby (Dolby) $2.3 billion -$1.2 billion
#397 (#286) Jeffrey Skoll (Ebay) $1.8 billion -$1.8 billion
#430 (#503) William Randolph Hearst III (Media, Kleiner Perkins) $1.7 billion -$0.7 billion
#468 (#652) Thomas Siebel (Siebel Systems) $1.5 billion -$0.4 billion
#522 (#605) Andreas von Bechtolsheim (Sun, Google investor) $1.4 billion -$0.6 billion
#522 (#533) Omid Kordestani (Google) $1.4 billion -$0.8 billion
#559 (#652) Henry Samueli (Broadcom) $1.3 billion -$0.6 billion
#559 (#462) Craig McCaw (McCaw Cellular) $1.3 billion -$1.2 billion
#559 (#743) Irwin Jacobs (Qualcomm) $1.3 billion -$0.3 billion
#559 (#785) Todd Wagner (Broadcast.com) $1.3 billion -$0.2 billion
#601 (#707) L. John Doerr (Kleiner Perkins) $1.2 billion -$0.5 billion
#601 (#677) Henry Nicholas III (Broadcom) $1.2 billion -$0.6 billion
#601 (#461) David Filo (Yahoo) $1.2 billion -$1.3 billion
#647 (#785) Vinod Khosla (Kleiner Perkins) $1.1 billion -$0.4 billion
#701 (#137) Sumner Redstone (Viacom) $1 billion -$5.8 billion
#701 (#897) Scott Cook (Intuit) $1 billion -$0.3 billion
#701 (#897) David Duffield (PeopleSoft) $1 billion -$0.3 billion
#701 (#897) Barry Diller (IAC) $1 billion -$0.3 billion
#701 (#847) Richard Egan (EMC) $1 billion -$0.4 billion
#701 (#785) Theodore Waitt (Gateway)
Hey Tex, I notice the drop in wealth from 2008. Isn't it amazing what a contraction in the money supply can accomplish?
When TSHTF, how much further will that wealth drop?
Your list proves that when people cannot borrow, the system begins collapsing. Without the ability to borrow, people cannot spend and businesses begin to fail. This is because all money is created through interest bearing loans or other debt instruments. Without borrowing, we have no medium of exchange.
so what percentage of the rich are the 'new' tech rich?
the Tech Rich are the exception to the rule, they are not the majority of the rich and it is the majority of the rich that falls into the 'Most' category I listed.
I stand by what I've said, Most rich people are rich because they inherited their money from their parents.
Ridiculous! There have been more millionaires made in the last twenty years than can be counted! Michael Dell alone created more millionaires than are members of your richest family name!
You can stand by it, but you're wrong!
can you prove that?
where did the money to start the new companies that have made new millionaires come from?
Who owns the companies? Are the new companies just renamed old companies?
How many executives are from poor families? How many politicians are from poor families?
Where did the money come from? Does it matter? I suppose I could research this all day and prove it, but I ain't gonna do it. We can disagree, its ok, ain't it?
Where the money comes from is the entire point.
No it isn't, its who became rich. Michael Dell for instance didn't come from a wealthy family but he created wealthy families! Bill Gates didn't come from a wealthy family but he created wealthy families! Steven Jobs and on and on!
The wealthy families in this country were a minority and they still are...
No the point is why does everyone hate the rich so much? They pay our paychecks, they pay the majority of the taxes which go to schools, hospitals, fire, ems police, military and so on. These people are footing roughly 40% of the bill for all these social welfare programs when they only make up 10% of our country and people still hate them. Why?
Everyone doesn't hate them, that is just your opinion and what you've stated.
Back to my earlier statement, if a 20% minority has 80% of the money, then obviously that 20% will be paying 80% of the bills.
Wrong. Because they only make up 20% of the population, in a democracy, the other 80% decide what the bills are. Didn't the colonies revolt because they didn't get the opportunity to decide how and when they were taxed? Or are you OK with 80% of the population fleecing the other 20%? Isn't that thievery?
WOW! I thought this was about hating rich people, who cares where they got their money from. Money comes to people from many sources. I got mine from my late husband... LOL!
What are you talking about? Thats what I said it doesn't matter where the money comes from.
Because encouraging class conflict is the easiest way to distract people from the way they're being screwed by the politicians.
and have made their money illegally by selling the USA out to other countries and taxing everyone as much as they can
Funny how many of them have used and abused the system to become rich. Mikel, you seem to hate inherited wealth, how do you feel about Al Gore?
I do agree that a marriage between business interests and government is a bad thing and we need to separate the two fields. But the question is, are you wiling to accept what must be done in order to accomplish that goal?
Joseph Stack was willing to accept what needs to be done
Except that he resorted to violence. The IRS is one of the most unholy government agencies out there, but that is still no excuse for what he did.
Actually, the IRS is a private organization with a government mandate - and a green light to do whatever it takes to enforce a confiscatory taxation system.
I still say that if people getting screwed from the IRS got together, you'd get massive exposure and all the crookedness of the IRS would come to light. In that case, political pressure would build to reform that agency and/or break it. The IRS has always operated by shaving some poor lost soul from the herd and breaking them as a warning to others. Sounds like a tactic from Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia than it does in a liberal democracy like the US.
No the IRS comes from the office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue which was established during the Civil War. It's a government agency, not a private company.
Nope - sorry tech.
http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Evide … 070630.pdf
I'd feel better about that source if they actually included 31 USC but they don't. I will agree that the tax code is so labyrinthine and complex that not even the IRS really knows what it is doing. That can be a blessing or it can be a curse. That's why so much tax litigation is much like any other kind of litigation anymore: a craps shoot.
I'm not sure the IRS would be so blatant. Like I said, they have to remain somewhat secret. If agents are shown rousting people for putting up websites, well that would start something would it not? Especially in this sort of political environment where distrust of the government is running particularly high. Besides there are all sorts of think tanks and public policy groups devoted to reforming the tax code and there isn't any indication that they're getting rousted by the feds.
Some times violence is the only way to accomplish the goal and get people to wake up to what is going on.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
The one guy this idiot managed to kill was no tyrant! And the complete failure that flew the plane was no Patriot!
Let me spell this out for you!
JOSEPH STACK WAS A PUSSY TERRORIST!
The IRS is the embodiment of tyranny.
Your statement about Joseph Stack is immature and unintelligent. This is a place for intellectual conversation and discussion not third grade name calling and the use of childish language.
If you don't like the man then state it intelligently.
The IRS is the embodiment of tyranny.
A place for intellectual conversation? You haven't been here very long have you?
Yeah, Tim McVeigh used the same quote to justify his mass murder. His mass murder did nothing to "wake people up", it just showed what a crackpot he was. Joseph Stack could have destroyed all the property the IRS was trying to seize. That's what I would have done. If the IRS wants to fight a war, it'll be a scorched earth one. If enough people do that, well how many stories of people destroying what they own will it take before public pressure forces the IRS to reform itself. It can only function because it enforces silence like the old-style Cosa Nostra.
Madame, it's very easy to get these people together. Look at this forum and how many people from all over the world have gotten together. Look at how Twitter has kept people informed about the crackdown in Iran. The Internet is a totally free communications device that governments or their agencies can't censor.
Tech - if you started a thread that asked people to fight against the IRS and it's practices not only would they bust in your door at gunpoint but everyone else on the thread would be harassed with audits, etc. Besides, their scare tactics work. Most people are scared to death of them because of how much of a hell they can make your life.
But I do agree with you, in that if everybody did it, they would be forced to change.
I hate child molesters and bullies(tyrants) but that is about it.
Hating someone because they are born a certain way is juvenile and ignorant in my humble opinion. In that I mean hating someone born Black, Indian, Rich, Good Looking, Blonde...etc seems silly and infantile to me.
How about someone who gives themselves a salary hike when they know and everyone else knows they have really done a lousy job? If an ordinary person had failed the way some bank managers have failed the public do you think they would even get to keep their jobs let alone get a salary boost? I don't care much for injustice.
New? their parents were poor people? yea right. You have to have millions to get elected.
i dont hate the rich. and the idea of taxing the rich more angers me . wealthy people employ us.
That's a good problem to have. The rich can hire the best CPAs to minimize their taxes legally. The rich after-tax pay is still more than the non-rich.
I would love to be rich and pay more in taxes than non-rich and pay less in taxes; since my after-tax pay will be a lot better if I was rich.
My buddy received around $150K direct deposited into his account for his $250K bonus. He is not rich but he is not complaining with his after-tax pay. His take home from his bonus is more than I will take home in two years after taxes and 401K contributions from my base pay.
I guess my point of view on the rich paying more theme is "that with great power comes great responsibility"
But I think income tax should be done away with completely and sales tax should replace it. Everyone that buys something pays the same % of tax. Those that have more money to buy things would pay more in taxes than those that cannot purchase.
That's how it was originally stated in the Constitution.
The only problem is that if you institute a sales tax, the feds can and will do things to exaggerate the value of sales, much like states have started to do with the value of homes. States and local governments use "their" assessors and the property owner is stuck paying whatever the government wants them to pay.
That will be tough to do since one will have to determine the ideal sales tax rate (to generate sufficient revenue for federal and state governments) and if it should be fixed or variable, be the same for the entire nation, and so on since consumer spending is about ~2/3s of the economy and fluctuates based on the economy...i.e.. drops during recessions and so on.
Fixed (imho) 10% across the board. If it isn't enough money then the Government needs to spend less. (and still do their job providing what we hired them to provide)
if there is a recession the Government has failed to do it's job and will be penalized by the lack of funds because citizens don't have money to buy stuff with. Which keeps the Government on it's toes and allows the people to decide what and where to allocate their earnings.
Mikel, you know why the US probably have not implemented a fixed sales tax and eliminated the payroll tax?
Because some (if not) the majority of the rich are frugal and do not spend like crazy. I have met several rich people who are frugal and know several $40K millionaires and $100K billionaires who are trying to keep up with the Joneses.
But keeping up with the Jones means they are buying stuff...which would support the Government through the sales tax.
There is already a sales tax of 8.25% in Texas and that's not including property tax and other taxes. Texas does not have a state tax. Let's assume that federal tax is 12% of $75K of AGI.
Likewise, I pay about (.12*75K) $9K in federal tax. So I currently pay $9K + 8.25% of my purchases currently.
Likewise, eliminating federal tax and increasing the Texas sales tax rate of 8.25% to 10% will be great to me but not for the government.
Just to generate $9K in sales tax... I will need to spend $90K. $90K*10% = $9K which is impossible because I do not have $90K after tax.
Kenrick, reducing taxes isn't supposed to be "great" for the government. There are two goals here: reduce taxes and reduce the government. You can't do one without the other.
That's why it is not going to be done because the government will tremendously reduce its revenue from the filthy rich who do not spend enough to make up for the amount the government receives from just taxing their income at the highest rate.
For example, my buddy who is not rich stills live off of a $50K annual salary but earns almost $400K a year. Likewise, the government will lose a lot of revenue if it eliminates income tax and just go to a fixed 10% sales tax rate. In other words the fixed sales tax rate will be a lot higher than 10%.
You can't expect the income tax to be done away with because the government wants it. It has to be done because the people want it. The people have to realize that they will be better off if they are taxed less and they will be able to save more, if the tax system rewards those who are frugal. Most people are neither rich nor government employees. If people realized they don't benefit from government growth or girth, they wouldn't be so eager to tax anyone -- either rich or poor.
Correct. That is what I am pointing out to Mikel who proposed eliminating income tax and replacing it with a fixed 10% sales tax across the board.
Death and taxes are part of life. If you want to take home more after taxes devise ways to generate more gross income. There is a cap of 40%. So the more you make the better.
$100M*.6 > $10M *.6>$1M*.6... and so on...
Which is why the Government would have to do a better job with less money. But that is what everyone except the Government wants. To pay the Government less and recieve what they stopped providing years ago. They will have to get smarter, change policies, and do things better. They take way to much already and do not provide what they are suppose to. I don't want to keep paying for services I'm not receiving.
The Government needs to be put on a very short leash for a while. The sales tax idea I believe would accomplish that.
People don't hate the rich, but the government is trying to make them the enemy, demonizing them to get the middle class to support their socialist reforms!
Several people in the US government are also rich such as John Kerry and John McCain.
The rich did well when Clinton was in office even though they paid more in taxes.
Warren Buffett (one of the richest people in the world) in late 2008 stated he should be paying more in taxes... "I'm paying the lowest tax rate that I've ever paid in my life... Now, that's crazy."
Buffett also stated that his "receptionist pays a higher portion of her salary in taxes than I do."
Bill Gates father also wants his son and other wealthy people to pay more in taxes by stating... "Middle-class and low-income families pay much more taxes proportionally than the wealthy. Absent an income tax, our over-reliance on the sales tax and property tax also results in insufficient public revenues to fund the public services, especially education, that 21st century Washington citizens deserve and demand."
According to a report issued by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the (Bush) tax cuts significantly increased the share of federal income taxes paid by the highest-earning 20 percent of households compared to their levels in 2000, President Clinton's final year in office.
In 2006, the latest available year from CBO, the top 20 percent of income earners paid 86.3 percent of all federal income taxes, an all-time high. This is an increase of over 6 percent from 2000, when the top 20 percent paid 81.2 percent. During the same period, the bottom four quintiles all saw their share of the federal income tax burden fall sharply:
The bottom 20 percent of income earners' share of federal income taxes fell from -1.6 percent in 2000 to -2.8 percent in 2006;
The next 20 percent's share declined from 1.1 percent to -0.8 percent;
The middle quintile's share dropped from 5.7 percent to 4.4 percent; and
The fourth quintile's share decreased from 13.5 percent to 12.9 percent.
Looks like you got it wrong!
No, he didn't. A better measure would include all taxes--payroll taxes, state and local sales taxes, property taxes.
Some policy analysts and non-profit groups such as OMBWatch, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, and the Tax Policy Center have attributed some of the rise in income inequality to the Bush administration's tax policy. In February 2007, President Bush addressed the rise of inequality for the first time, saying "The reason is clear: We have an economy that increasingly rewards education and skills because of that education". However, prominent social scientists, such as economist vocal liberal critic Paul Krugman and political scientist Larry Bartels, have pointed out that education fails to explain the rising gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%, which has been the site of most increases in inequality. They point out that if education were to blame, a larger group would be pulling ahead of the rest of the population, and that wages of highly educated earners have fallen far behind those of the very rich. Furthermore, they point out that the U.S. is unique among developed countries in seeing such a sharp rise in inequality, while the composition of its economy and labor force is not - if education were to blame, one would expect the same trend across all post-industrial nations. Bartels has asserted that the skill base explanation is partially used as it is more "comforting" to blame impersonal forces, rather than policies.
n terms of increasing inequality, the effect of Bush's tax cuts on the upper, middle and lower class is contentious. Most economists argue that the cuts have benefited the nation's richest households at the expense of the middle and lower class, while libertarians and conservatives have claimed that tax cuts have benefitted all taxpayers. Economists Peter Orszag and William Gale described the Bush tax cuts as reverse government redistribution of wealth, "[shifting] the burden of taxation away from upper-income, capital-owning households and toward the wage-earning households of the lower and middle classes." Between 2003 and 2004, following the 2003 tax cuts, the share of after-tax income going to the top 1% rose from 12.2% in 2003 to 14.0% in 2004.
Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_p … nistration
I wasn't talking about inequality of earnings, that's a different issue and certainly one that shouldn't be addressed by government!
The bottom line is, the rich pay the overwhelming majority of the revenues collected by the government as shown by the non partisan CBO report.
The sources you cited are all liberal leaning economists with an agenda, the agenda, to demonize the wealthy and promote class warfare with the ultimate goal of establishing government control over everything.
Do you expect someone who is earning minimum wage to pay the same amount of taxes as a Wall Street CEO. The principle of progressive taxes was accepted by both parties long ago. As income disparity increased, by simple math, the share of taxes paid by the super-rich also increased. It's hard to collect taxes from people on welfare or unemployment compensation.
Stop trying to obfuscate the issue, Ralph. 10% of 10,000 is 1,00 while 10% of 1,000,000 is 100,000. That's fair. Everyone pays. Isn't that what you believe? "From each according to their means, to each according to their wants....er needs".
Progressive taxes may be intended to be "fair" but their effect in the real world is to penalize those successful in business, while rewarding those who do not contribute much.
Upward of $1M per year. Even $1M isn't considered wealthy these days.
My definition of rich is no longer 'having' to earn ever again. That is rich. Being able to live as you want to and not ever have to worry about making money.
it was only a guess...sheesh!
I myself have never earned over $26,000/yr so $100,000 seems rich to me! lol
Oddly, I have little of the world's material goods, but I am having some incredible and terrific experiences. What I've lost in the past is all coming back, but in different ways I would never have guessed. Good people have returned, new people have come in, generosity, kindness and experiences that are great after years and years of loss, hardship and heartache are happening.
I live a rich life with not a lot of money. I could use more, but apparently what I have is enough to make me rich.
As for those who have mega amounts of cash and resources, I think they are a mixed bunch like everything and everyone. Good and bad. Some give people opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have. They know they are fortunate, and they seem to be responsible about "paying it forward." Others are elitists, and entitled and a general pain in the butt to humanity.
But that doesn't mean it justifies you or I to be that way. Paying it forward is a cool thing. I like living that way.
When will people begin to understand that in order for someone to be wealthy, others must have debt?
Many people became wealthy after starting a business. A business taking out a loan, passes the cost of their loan and the interest on that loan to the consumers. Inflation is the highest tax in the land. This does not affect the wealthy as much as the masses.
Once a person attains wealth, he/she can more readily invest their money, whereas a person living from paycheck to paycheck, has all he/she can do to keep afloat financially.
The government hands out a myriad of sweetheart deals to corporate America. How many banks and corporations have been bailed out at the expense of the masses?
If it wasn't for the masses continually going into debt, we would be without a medium of exchange, and the wealthy would lose it all.
It's like I said in an earlier thread, "put the blame for our economic woes where it belongs" The federal reserve fractional banking debt monetary system! This is the problem. No one would begrudge the rich,if the playing field was equal. It is not!
I myself have no debt. I own my home outright. I own my vehicle outright. I have money in the bank. I have the masses that have borrowed and spent their debt dollars into circulation to thank for my good fortune. Without their indebtedness, I could not have attained the status I enjoy now. The wealthy need the poor masses. Without them, the wealthy are nothing.
I have hub about this - nobody reads it LOL - nobody seems to want to talk about this basic issue that underlies the whole system before it starts.
China man, You are absolutely right. This system is operating on borrowed time. (no pun intended). Those that choose to ignore the symptoms of the disease called, (fractional banking), will be crying the blues, when that disease renders the dollars that they measure their wealth by, valueless!
It's happened before. 1929 should have been the final wakeup call, but the people allowed the federal reserve to continue their hold over the masses through fractional banking. The next crash is going to be much more severe. It won't be too long from now. My best guess is that it will occur before the end of 2015,
The signs are all around us. Not only people and businesses going bankrupt, but nations also. Rampant corruption, unregulated ponzi schemes, pension funds in trouble, cost of healthcare out of sight, taxes and cost of living growing constantly,welfare and unemployment roles at high levels. Relying more and more on the military industrial complex.
People upside down on their mortgages. Commercial real extate vacancies at record highs. These are a few of the signs.
Wake up America, not much time left before TPTB will be dictating your every move. What once was your wealth will be useless to you then.
You need to be thankful that we have rich people,as they donate to those who need food,water and shelter plus education.
I sure am happy that I am rich.
I can write hubs with my computer all day long and not worry about eating my next meal at the homeless shelter...
If you are not eating at the homeless shelter,you are rich too!!!
I forgot that I can also go fishing when I want to.
firead45, You had better begin studying this debt monetary system. It is obvious that you have not. The wealthy could not have amassed their fortunes had it not been for the indebtedness of the masses. The crash of 1929 was caused by the banks contracting the money supply, by not lending. When people do not borrow, the system begins an immediate contraction and soon collapses. If there is no debt there can be no dollars. So, don't tell me that people should be thankful for the rich people. They would not have anything to donate were it not for other people being forced to borrow in order to have a medium of exchange.
It is the indebtedness of the masses that made the money available for the rich to capture through commerce. Without that indebtedness, the money would not have existed.
You may be able to do all of the things you stated above right now, but when this system crashes, I will see you standing in the bread lines.
Oh, and keep that fishing pole handy, it may be your major source of food in the near future.
You should start writing hubs instead of telling others how to perform.
Now I will go fishing.
Why is it that you can tell others that they need to be thankful to the rich?
Find a life that doesn't have a double standard. You can give instruction, but not take it.
The poor, nor any other segment of society (NEEDS) to give thanks to the privileged few, It is because of their indebtedness that the money existed for those that became wealthy, to capture through commerce.
The privileged few should thank those in debt for the wealth that they have attained.
mmmm.... Who dislikes wealthy people? I certainly do not so I cannot be in the category of everyone.
I don't think people hate rich people because they have money, but because they abuse the power it brings. Like Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. Like buying congressmen to pass laws that help only their business interests to detriment of others' businesses. Like being on Obama's staff as a tax cheat and getting away with it. Like congress having one set of laws for themselves and another for us - like their healthcare plan. And lots of other examples. It's not the money.
If someone hates the rich they must have some deep seeded issues of feeling less then or not worthy of goodness. Nothing is wrong with being rich. It is the love of money that God tells us is a sin. 'There shall be no other Gods before me' If someonee goes only for their own means and things of the world why waste time in hating them. NO THING goes with us when we pass on. We will pass on to eternity Heaven or separation from God to Hell.
Give water get water, give joy get joy, give love get love, give money get prosperity. It is the law of restitution. We reap what we sow. The creator wants his children to prosper.The family of Jesus was prosperous. They had wealth.It is obvious Jesus did not flaunt his things. His dependence was on God the father. True joy, love and peace come from within through Jesus Christ. There is no other way.
Ask a person on their death bed what all their stuff means to them. Our time on the planet is very short because eternity awaits us. In Heaven the streets are pure gold. If someone hates the rich maybe they need to take a deep look. Who do they trust? Riches of the World? It all belongs to the creator anyway. All can be gone in a blink of the eye. Look at Haiti, New Orleans, Chili.
This rich person could be most generous and help hundreds or thousands or millionhs. I know of plenty that give from the heart. God mutiplies our seed giving.
More to ya if you have bucks. Help others that hurt, You can not keep what you have without giving some away. Thank God for all the gifts he has blessed you with. Rich in Spirit is beautiful. IF one hates rich in spirit it is because they live in the dark. Love each other. Hate is of the enemy of the world. He wants you to hate the rich. Go help someone if you hate the rich. Go help at a hospital, give a smile, help a lady cross the street. God will Bless you. There is no greater joy then giving from the heart. Hating anyone is dark and a waste of time and energy. Do not dewll on the rich. Dwell on giving of yourself, you will be Blessed. Go Love someone. Give a hug and mean it. Trust God. He is richness, glowy and honor.
Thank you, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong w/being wealthy. People who hate the wealthy are envious. They are negative people who glorify being poor, even impoverished. Such people want nothing out of life & don't want others to achieve. These are the people who have negative views regarding educational & socioeconomic achievement. These people just love being poor & want everyone else to do likewise. Sad isn't it!
How about, Hmmmmmmm...The Bald....or The people with more than 10 earrings,...People with aquariums???
I am half bald, do you do hate with whips and chains
As long as you are confident and keep your hair short (if you decide not to shave all of the hair off your head), being bald is not a problem.
Of course when I lost my hair in my mid-late twenties it was a shock and a shock to some of my college buddies who last saw me with a head full of hair.
I was handsome with hair on the top of my head and am still handsome without it. So it is not a problem for me since it allows me to differentiate myself from others.
hate is just an emotion that we use when we don't know how to love. I see hate as emotional masturbation by those who don't know how to love - while watch those who do
ME me me!! pick me!!!
Oh wait... too late...
Yes, as George Baer, president of the Philadelphia & Reading Railroad said in 1903, "The interests of the working man will be protected, not by labor agitators, but by Christian men to whom God in his infinite wisdom has entrusted the property interests of this country."
I like to look at this through Exchange Rate 'glasses' - China keeps growing economically, and has a vast home market to 'improve' yet, has India etc to also expand into - and so could continue to expand economically, in spite of western markets. What is all the 'wealth' when nobody wants the bankrupt currencies that are based in property, the vapour of internet business, insurance that does not insure, etc etc. When the dollar is like the Polish Zloty when I worked in Poland, 23,000 to the pound, around 19,000 to the dollar, and only worth anything at all inside the country what will happen next.
Wealth is all in the imagination, money is just a principal or a working idea, ownership only valid if you can protect it from others taking it, the people who 'owned' the real estate that is america were not able to 'protect' it, what happens when you can't 'protect' it either because someone else can come buy it with your dollars that are only cents in their country.
That may not be your biggest asset if that's your avatar pic.
What are you suggesting Ralph? That's outrageous, you should be ashamed of yourself!
Hi Ralph, I always enjoy your posts. Just the truth from you.
But on a lighter note
"I just saved a ton of money on my insurance by switching to Geico"
You're not the first person who's told me that.
No, I was! See it up there "But he needs a sense of humor" that was me Ralph, did you get one yet?
In the USA in recent times people who grew rich ripping off the poor via mortgages that were dodgy from the start have been the target for a lot of hate. People who have used insider trading of one sort or another to rip off the system are not well loved. The people who have cut deals with oil rich middle eastern rat bags in order to further enrich themselves seem less than kind. The guys who gave themselves salary hikes on the money the US government gave the banks to bail them out seem to be detested.
Do the rich deserve our hatred? I say the crooks and rip off artists do and in spades. Oh and countries like the UK and Australia also have wealthy rip off artists and crooks but not on a par with the USA. A case of big country tends to breed bigger foxes in the hen house.
We had a very rich Australian in Murdoch. His family came from Melbourne where I live. He owns Time Warner, the New York Times, the Dow and much more. He was well liked until he started busting up the British press with bully tactics, then many Australians disowned him. I believe he is now an American citizen, and they're welcome to him!
Murdoch is a sleaze. However, he doesn't own the NY Times. Last year he bought the Wall Street Journal. The Sulzberger family still owns a controlling interest in the NYT.
I admire wealthy people! thier doing something right and wise with thier money. Thats how they got there" I'll just take notes and learn the way..
Well coletta7 there are wealthy people to admire because they have made a difference and have improved our lives. In the USA Ford developed the production line and so began America's car industry. It has since seen better days. The guy who brought the idea of pre-fabrication to housing and shipping did the world a favor and if he got rich off it then good luck to him. The people who developed penicillin hopefully got wealthy. If I was told that the German who wrote All Quiet on the Western Front did alright out of it I would be pleased. If I were to discover that the Disc World novelist was comfortably well off it certainly wouldn't bother me...These people deserve what wealth they end up accumulating. They have contributed above and beyond the ken to society and should be admired.
As for the scum bags who rip people off to get rich...why care about them?...They are useless to you and don't give a toss about you or how poor they will make you.
Smart move. The wealthy are great teachers of how to achieve & succeed. They are the ones who can do it. I also admire wealthy people; in fact, they should be idolized. They are the TRUE WINNERS in society!
There are some people in the world who have never motivated them selfs to be sucessfull. They blame it on the goverment. They blade it on rich. But it is their fault.
Every one is born for greatness. Its the choices we make that push us off the path. And by no means do i mean greatness is rich. It could be family. It could be wisdom. Either dont lay there and blame some one your not great.
Exactly. These are the same clueless people who glorify poverty. They even have the illogical premise that money doesn't buy happiness when in fact, it DOES.
One thing I wanted to add:
The arrogance of some people that are born rich (thinking they are better than others based solely on the fact they are born into a wealthy family) may be why 'Rich' people are sometimes disliked.
I find that 'rich spoiled brats' tend to think of themselves as better than others based on the action and accomplishments of another person (i.e. a parent/grandparent). They tend to think of themselves as being in a classification of entitlement, that the normal rules of polite society don't exactly apply to them. They seem to think they have 'super' rights where normal (poor) people only have rights.
This thought pattern allows them to dismiss the fact that they, if started at the same place as these poor people, would be in the same or a worse condition as these poor people. The same people they think of themselves as better than.
After all it isn't hard to win at monopoly if you get to start the game already owning all the properties. It is another story entirely, if you win it, having started out not owning anything at all, while another, owned it all.
None hates rich persons. People hate that attitude which comes after being rich. It is most difficult task to be polite and simple after being rich. That’s why rich persons are hated.
I wonder why the Tea Baggers hate Nancy Pelosi despite her reported net worth of approximately $19 million. Perhaps they are jealous of her good looks at age 71?
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