I'm going to be really offensive here, if I'm successful, and all in order to say "not really".
I happen to be in the Army, in the infantry in fact, and I've just come home from Afghanistan, so I have a little first hand perspective on this. Now notice, I said infantry, a soldier who does the actual fighting. We have many that stay on the FOB's and work on trucks and choppers and paperwork, God bless 'em, but not us. I spent my entire deployment over there being shot at, blown up, and watching my buddies die in the middle of the desert.
Now, there seems to be an idea going around that there's a few bad guys over there and we're over there looking for them and oppressing all these innocent people at the same time, but that's simply not true. In my entire deployment I never met one villager who didn't want to kill us, one person who didn't want to see us blown to bits by an IED. (That's a pretty sight, it is, to see one of your boys get his legs blown off by a bomb.) They didn't hate us because we were there. They hated us because we were Americans.
Afghanistan is less of a war and more of a relief effort. We're trying to build schools, give them money to improve their farms, and give medical aid to them and their families. As you leave their house they'll shoot at you with your money still in their hand.
I don't agree with all the reasons for the war, I doubt anybody does, but everybody who has gone did so because they thought they were doing something right--they were helping something they thought was worth holding on to.
The news has their story, but I promise you there's more to it than is shown. Maybe those marines killed those taliban just before the medevac came in and picked up their buddies whose guts they'd been holding in for the last half hour.
I have a couple guys who don't have legs anymore and will never walk again. We could tell them that a couple of marines pissed on some taliban KIA's and see if they get offended. I doubt it though.
I'm not saying it was right, because it wasn't, and it is the job of someone in their chain of command to care, but it isn't ours. There may be a few corpses I wish I'da pissed on. But out of the war, this is the best the media can do? Our guys die every day and it doesn't make the news, but a couple of taliban die and get pissed on and the media goes nuts?
Thanks for giving me a little room to vent. I guess it would have to be a yes and no.
So - as a serving soldier and so affected more directly by these things than most, you say in the first sentence that (we) "are not oppressing all these innocent people" then you go on to say that they all hate you.
You then go on to claim that this the hostilities in Afghanistan are "more of a relief effort" and yet the people shoot at you as you leave.
As an ex-serviceman myself, I have to say you seem to be presenting such an establishment view that it could almost have come from an issue kit. The picture you paint of poor oppressed soldiers trying to do their best to help these ungrateful people is pure news release stuff. I am afraid it does not wash with me. I have every support and admiration for soldiers doing a soldiers job - but I am unable to find the same support for foreign soldiers even being in Afghanistan in the first place at this time, any more than I could find support for Russian troops being there in their turn.
Pissing on the bodies of a fallen enemy is not a minor issue, it is a total lack of all the qualities of a soldier. Fighting unjust wars is the basic cause of the degradation because they fight with a bad conscience.
I don't think they should have done it, because it lowers us to the level of what others do (well, maybe not that low). However, I do understand their anger when so many innocent people lost their lives during 9/11. Remember that these men were probably in Jr. High at that time. I'm sure it impacted them greatly as it did my children and myself. Their emotions were likely running high.
Those men are also under a ton of stress over there. They are in battle, away from family and seeing the horrors of war. Can anyone really say they would 100 percent of the time make the best decisions in those circumstances? I can't say I would.
So, yes, poor judgment on their part. However, I don't think they should be punished for it other than a minor hand slap and I commend our fighting men and women for the work they do to keep us safe and free.
Honestly? I am appalled. Do we really have to stoop to that level? Not really.
Yes. I do. And I'm sure we didn't make any friends in Afghanistan or anywhere else in the world.
"We just marched in, we can just march out"
- Ron Paul
I also care. I also dread the actions of our enemies upon our fallen heros. I hope that the world can forgive us for atrocities commited by a very small minority.
The testosterone level after a firefight is sky high. These boys were still alive and those bastards were dead. Would anyone (the media) pay attention if it was the other way around?
Next time piss on them first and then make them dead.
Explain the difference between a boy and a bastard, please?
Nope a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.
Sure not because you are occupying their country. How would you feel if it was the other way around? Nobody forced you to go there and therefore be a target! Stop your complaining and justification of their actions!
Well, for someone so against the military, you sure are itching for a fight aren't you? You're welcome to your opinions no matter what they may be.
I will state it plainly... PISS ON THEM ALL!
I do not care about them being pissed on.
They rape, burn and behead lil girls for being Christian, they behead our soldiers, they kill innocent civillians with cowardly suicide attacks, and on and on... so they can go cry a river to someone else about it.
PISS ON THEM ALL!!
Would I have done it... maybe.
Would I have posted it online... probrably not.
Do I think it matters in the scheme of things... nope.
Do I care they got pissd on...NOPE!
And given your response, they probably would say the same about you!
And they would say it about you too, hollie.
Islam does not care about you or I... only about fulfilling allahs bloodlust.
And they would be more than welcome to try.
You can say the same for Christianity. Religion is a major part of this war.
Christians are not running around beheading those who do not believe as they do.
Stop equating Islam and Christianity... they are nothing alike.
Right! Sometimes they burn them as witches or draw and quarter them as they did during the inquisition. Or they enslave entire tribes of Africans and rape their women or work them to death on plantations while they attend church and tell each other how blessed they are not having to work so hard.
Ask the Native Americans how the Christians blessed them with their religion.
I can go on if you like.
The inquisiton was the Catholics.
There were and are more than Catholics in the Cristian religion Randy.
And the best you can do is to go back a few hundred years?
And the African slave trade involved the whole world, including Islam, and was around way before Cristianity.
So that is a dead response.
And as to the Indians... that was a clash of cultures. And there were many faults on all sides in that conflict.
And shall we list the atrocities of Atheism?
Communism for one is responsible for the deaths and enslavement of whole nations and peoples.
We don't allow Christians to commit atrocities here anymore, WhoBe! Not legally, at least. Some take their flock to Guyana or some other place before they convince them to murder their children and then themselves.
Others are hid out in Utah or some other state while they marry young girls to add to their harems, or refuse medicine to their children because they think it's sin to use it.
Others wish their children to be uneducated because they don't like what science has to say. Still others voted to put a moronic woman in a position of possibly being in control of nuclear weapons. All atrocities committed lately by self proclaimed christians. Do you fit any of these descriptions?
oh please... you can sling around all the lil cults you want. It is BS.
As I said I can list millions of atrocities by atheists, stalin, Mao etc... your beliefs are are guilty as all others.
As to keeping our children, "uneducated". We have a right to teach our children all sides of a thing... not just to allow you all to indoctrinate them to your BS atheistic world views.
Which, I will add, require as much faith as any religion to believe in.
Lil cults? All of christianity is made up of "lil cults". I suspect you yourself belong to just such an organization. Baptist, I would guess! Where are you from, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, or somewhere else in the bible belt?
Atheism is not a religion, dude. But it matters not to me as I'm agnostic, and all religions are the same to me.
I am from Lynn Massachusetts.
I was raised a, Blue Blood Democrat Secular Atheist.
How about you?
And yes all religion are quite feractured these days. but that doesn't mean there is no God.
One does not equate to the other.
Your throwing up jim jones and LDS cults, which, Mormons are not Christians, anyone who has read their doctrines can tell you that, simply invalidates your arguments.
Same when you toss all of Christianity under the Catholics. Too many seeem to think there were no other Christians in the world...
Born and reared deep in the bible belt itself! That's why I know so much about christians. You can't throw a dead skunk around here without hitting one. You should know all about the great christian Cotton Mather if you were raised in Massachusetts. Nice guy, wasn't he?
Mormons are self proclaimed christians just as the other cults are. I believe them just as much as the other cults.
Shall we go into the Southerners and their Behaviour?
How many blacks died under the yoke of the South?
How many people died to abolish that barbaric practice... even as those great southerners fought to preserve that abomination?
Yes... nice people weren't they.
No they were not. I detest what my ancestors did to the slaves. They were all fine christians on Sunday though. The mindset hasn't changed that much over the years down here and neither have the christians. At least I'm not making excuses for them like some.
I make excuses for no one Randy.
I simply point out that to sit there and point the finger at others when your own, Southerners and Atheists, have done the same, is absurd and hypocritical.
If you are a Christian @WHOBE..you prove the point that some Christians can't see past there own noses to respect other religions. Christians claim that they dod not judge others, they do not hate, yet you seem to hate all who is not a christian..now tell me is this christian like? Is the way those marines pissed on the dead christian like- looks that way by how you explain and uphold Christians. Furthermore, this post has nothing to do with religion or what belief you are. It has to do with DISRESPECT FOR THE DEAD. I know in many cultures this is taboo. It is a total disregard for humanity and the moral code we live by. If something or someone is dead you treat it sacred, something like how Christians treat Jesus and al the other dead prophets and saints you worship. It's funny how we worship dead things and not the LIVING!! We are all alive yet we get no respect until we die. Hum now why is that. Just venting.. And I want to thank that VET yhat posted first , he pretty much summed it all up. PEACE.
So, just curious... Islam and Muslims who are terrorists tearing out people's entrails while alive, cutting of the noses of their women and raping their little girls *today* is much like terrible things that Christianity did 400 + years ago...
Christians seem to have learned, how much longer before Muslims learn?
Are you suggesting the atrocities done to civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan by soldiers were all done by atheists? Plenty of rapes were reported during the Iraq war among other things and none done by believers?
Check the US prisons for violent criminals and see how many of them claim to be christians. How did I know you were probably from Texas before I checked your profile?
It never ceases to amuse me that someone from Georgia could ever degrade any other state, seriously, Georgia?
I'll degrade my own state if it is responsible for harm to others and I've done it before. We have plenty of bigots, looney fundies, and right wing nuts here too! And you do know there were lots of plantation owners who moved their slaves and entire stock to Texas long ago. That's why we both have the accent.
State lines do not prevent ignorance from crossing them. How'd you like the game?
whether you agree with what you do or don't (and personally I think they should be court martial ed and jailed) Those idiots did more damage to the war effort and have signed the death warrants of tens if not hundreds of ur troops, this ind of war always hinges on the hearts and minds principle and if you do this sort of idiocy you lose those, which means more people shooting at our troops next time round.
...as a former Marine, I am embarrassed. These young people are not taught the honor of being an American like they were just a simple 25 years ago.
They dishonored our country when they stooped to the level of those they hate so much that they would relieve themselves on them.
To be *like* the enemy is to become the enemy?
I don't want Islam here. I don't like Sha'ria law, and I certainly don't agree with the 9/11 terrorist acts. I would have jumped right up and grabbed a weapon to fight had they let me come back.
But, to do such a thing as these Marines is nothing less than irresponsible stupidity. The Marines are Americans, and should know they are BETTER than that behavior.
What happened to this country? What happened to honor? Who the freak recorded this and put it on YouTube? Where was THEIR mind?
Someone who had a conscience. Probably not a christian, at any rate!
Once again, they did not stoop to the level of the enemy.
Another personal attack, do you have anything else?
It wasn't another; it was the first. You deserved it.
You didn't attack me, you attacked someone else, reading comprehension is a good thing.
Fair enough, but it wasn't an attack, it was a reaction.
Anyway, raising the game fractionally, here's Robert Fisk's take:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co … 89046.html
It was an attack plain and simple. Please don't confuse me with the hand wringing/whiny type. War is about killing and blowing things up, it isn't about winning hearts and minds, that is just more tripe to pass onto the gullible left. The goal of war is to win, take WW2 for example, we killed everything we saw and it is no accident the enemy gave up. This war has been going on too long because the goal is not to win decisively but rather to be humane in our killing. Do you not see the disconnect? We expect our troops to kill the enemy but don't piss on them whatever you do, stupid huh?
You seem like a classic example of the way that wars coarsen societies- whether you 'win' those wars or 'lose' them.
Actually they were forced to go there, direct orders tend to be quite forceful.
They weren't forced to join during either of the conflicts, were they?
Some I'm sure were due to this crappy economy. But you're right, no need to defend the thousands of troops who have never done anything other than follow orders. You are a good American, thank you for your service.
I only blame those who resort to bringing themselves down to the level of those we claim to abhor, not the entire military. I'm sure you would be quick to defend those of the enemy if they did the same to our soldiers, right?
Yes, I consider myself a good American as I dislike wrong no matter the nationality of the perpetrator. Can you say the same?
The enemy wouldn't urinate on our dead soldiers, they would saw their heads off on video and then mutilate their corpses. I again applaud you for being the good American you are.
Wrong is wrong. Would you defend them the way you do our soldiers who commit atrocities? Your last post did not answer the question I posed. A mere oversight on your part, I assume.
You assume too much. Why would I defend the enemy? You obviously are confused about what the role of our military is.
I suppose so. I get from you that as long as we are the ones committing atrocities it's okay, but for the enemy not so much. What am I missing? I suppose you disagree with the Geneva Commission too?
Atrocities? How many college kids have been pissed on during pledge week at the local University? Cutting the head off a live person is quite different than pissing on a dead one. Thank you for your service.
You aren't too keen on answering questions, are you? Very telling but no surprise. If you refuse to answer questions then don't ask any. Fair enough?
Pissing on corpses in Afganistan? What happens when these poor kids (mostly they are kids) come back?
Will they slip back into normal life, make great husbands and fathers, hold down decent jobs? Some will, of course, but many will end up homeless or worse.
In the UK about thirty per cent of the people sleeping on the streets are ex forces. I would be interested in figures from the US.
The price the West pays for insanely optimistic politicians thinking they can engineer democracy is incalculable.
You're right, Will. Many of the forces have a hard time readjusting in the US, in fact, we have more veterans now than at any point in history, and suicide rates for vets just hit 18 a day.
Perhaps you should tackle the subject in a few hubs. It is an important topic.
Pardon me for being so blunt in reply to you.
From what I've heard from others like yourself, I am of the opinion that the US authorities such as the VA, and many others (including self righteous individuals), are quite happy to "piss on retuned veterans". I mean figuratively, of course. If they provided the vital support that is truly needed, there would not be a suicide rate that was any different to society at large.
It seems the gov't is quite happy to fork out trillions of $$'s to support the war, but skimps on any support for the vets.
I think, SHAMEFUL is the correct word to use.
I doubt that the politicians counted the cost adequately before they committed troops.
Indeed, what you say is correct, but I'm confused about the "Shameful" topic. The suicide of 18 vets a day? Yes it is very shameful, but I would still use "important" as the best label for that topic. All you say is correct, and it may be even worse than you know. Our men and women are not prepared for what they face over there, then are not prepared for what they face at home. There is very limited support and few programs to help the desperate. Shameful and important would be best. I wish I had an answer. We definitely need to get out of Afghanistan.
im willing to bet the dead would have rather been just peed on than killed . the bullet was the fatal offense .
Cassie, I hope your question has been answered, particularly by Kael Myril. Of course people care but war affects real decent men in horrible ways that they themselves cannot later explain. I am not trying to excuse the (alleged) behaviour of specific individuals but things like that described do happen in such situations and always have happened. It is only modern media that draws it to our attention.
The horrors of war will not stop with the attention this (alleged) incident has attracted, nor will the non-prescribed abusive treatments laid out by individuals. Yes, of course military personnel should be and forever remain responsible for their actions in foreign countries in times of war but at no time should a witch hunt be initiated against serving personnel who are already living through Hell on the basis of ill-advised actions on the part of a tiny, tiny minority...
The fact that they posted it online is just another example of an oxymoron - "American intelligence"
Oh dear. Can we sink any lower.....? Why would anyone try to defend this? On any level? It is a bad image to show to the world, because there are decent Americans in this world too, and they are saddened by it.
I was even more saddened by the negative media reporting and jokes on the "war relief" with emphasis on the word relief.
America is the Land of the Possible, and the Do-able - it deserves a far better image than this.
For you Fox News skeptics of the NY Times, here's an article from today's paper which offers more sympathetic perspective on the urination incident than that of military and Obama administration commenters.
"Talk to almost anyone who has fought in combat, and chances are they can tick off a string of reasons why the YouTube video showing four Marines urinating on the bodies of dead enemy fighters in southern Afghanistan is horrible. Horrible for America’s image around the world. Horrible for its strategy of winning support from the Afghan people. Horrible for a professional military that believes its troops behave with the utmost decorum, even in the heat of battle..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/world … amp;st=cse
Thanks Ralph, but I don't need the NYT opinion on anything. What these marines did is not an atrocity,war crime or anything else the left can dream up. It was simply how the Marines felt about the men who had been trying to kill them.
An open mind is a beautiful thing to behold.
Just got the computer working again after I unfortunately couldn't resist the impulse to urinate on my screen after reading this vile, putrid, Communist filth...
. . . . vile, putrid, Communist filth . . . if that is your response to a reasoned, balanced and thoughtful consideration of the actions of soldiers under stress then I guess you are either unable to read or uneducated enough to understand.
Let me precis it for you:
Soldiers, especially those barely in their twenties are dehumanised by the stress of prolonged combat to the point of losing a realistic connection with normal moral and human values. This de-humanisation is permanently harmful to those involved both in their conduct in a foreign occupied country and for the rest of their lives.
More simply, when these guys grow up they are more likely to face some mental crisis becasue of their inhuman behaviours. You can go to other threads here that point out that over a third of your homelss are bright brave ex-troops.
In future if you don't understand something it would be better to just ask for help rather than make yourself look silly.
The story about the guys who urinated on the corpses or the linked article? If it is the article you are referring to then how can you tell the writer is a communist?
Just another reason to attack and cut our military. Just another excuse for the scum to try an lock up our soldiers.
It is all so transparent.
Too true, the worst part is that piece of human debris hillary clinton calling this a moral outrage. Where was her outrage when slick willie was getting a hummer in the oval office and lying about it.
Slick willy is a rapist murderer.
And those are facts.
Bill Clinton raped women, and had many a person murdered, to make his way up.
No moral out-rage there... because the Left has no morals.
Proof required otherwise classified as certifiable nutter.
Bill Clinton’s rape of campaign supporter Juanita Broaddrick, “was an event that in fact took place” according to a Wall Street Journal piece, Feb. 19, 1999. “To hear the details of her story and the statements of the corroborating witnesses, was to understand that this was an event that in fact took place.” Three mainstream media outlets reported fleetingly on the evidence for this crime.
FBI Investigation Opens Wounds
Juanita’s son Kevin, a lawyer, warned her against lying to a federal grand jury, if it would come to that, and convinced her to tell the truth to federal prosecutor Kenneth Starr during the Clinton impeachment investigation, which is how her own account of the incident eventually became public and led to Juanita’s tearful accounts of being raped by Bill Clinton.
A Denver radio program, Bob Enyart Live, conducted a corroborating interview with with Norma Rogers (now Norma Kelsay), the nurse who found Juanita shortly after the rape, bruised, sobbing, and with lips swollen twice their size.
And that is just one of many.
Would you like me to list the many people who died around bill and Hillary?
Well this story is not proof you see, no convictions, no physical evidence, limited corroboration its barely even a theory. and yes I would like you to list the people who died around them why you think they were murdered who murdered them how they were murdered and most importantly what evidence of this you have also lastly why you think you're the genius who is smarter than everyone else in the country and knows the "truth" that far more intelligent educated and informed people have missed.
Her testimony and a witness after the fact is not good enough. And lets not forget the OTHER WOMEN who have accused him of such acts. We should dismiss them all eh? But I bet you accepted those women who accused Cain without question.
And look at all these...
The following is a list of people connected with Bill Clinton who have died suddenly or under unusual Circumstances:
James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement for refusing to testify as a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
Vince Foster - Former white House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.
C. Victor Raiser II - & - Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".
Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.
James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater. Kathy Ferguson -Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere.
Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible Corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.
Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.
Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.
Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.
Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.
Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.
Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.
Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation.
Controversial case here-initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:
Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, July, 1988
Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April, 1989.
James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Hopefully you, such garbage there are a couple of suspicious ones in there but when you know as many people as president its hardly surprising especially since some of the connections are pretty tenuous. I don't have the time nor inclination o check each one but suffice to say the snopes article on the matter debunks the myth pretty concretely, you might try reading genuine sources rather than conspiracy sites. I have no idea whether Cain actually harassed anyone I saw very little evidence either way but I didn't really pay the case much attention as it was obvious his campaign was going nowhere. An no a he said she said with some marks o her situation doesn't convince me especially since the accused was the president the possible economic gain is too much of an influencing factor on honesty.
You hope he dies? This is why the left can never be taken serious.
I wonder if you actually read what yo are writing? for the record guys he is saying that Americas most popular president of all time was a serial killer and rapist and only he and a few discerning citizens are aware o0f the massive conspiracy that has been pulled over your eyes! Also his views are not affected by his extreme right wing political leanings.
Do you have anything else other than hatred?
I am something else am I? you are the guy who says he would execute a man who released footage of a massacre and piss on corpses but I am the guy who doesn't respect human life right? clearly.
We hang traitors... yes.
And pissing on the enemy who has slaughtered many of ours and children and civillians does not bother me... no it doesn't.
And yes... you are something else.
Something else indeed.
The military higher-ups disagree with you.
And that is theri perogative UW.
But I also have the right to my opinions.
And who carries more weight in this case. There used to be a time when honor was celebrated, not acting like the enemy you condemn, etc. but yes, it's your opinion and you are welcome to it.
They did not act like the enemy, the enemy would have beheaded them and mutilated their corpse.
It doesn't matter... they could have called them bad names, and some would be making an issue of it.
It is sad that PC has so crippled us as a nation and a people.
Oh and by the way... where are the American prisoners of war that have been captured?...
oh yeah, laid in a gutter next to thier decapatated heads. Or hanging from abridge burnt to black coal.
Ohh but do not piss on them.
Same bunch who denied the shooting at Ft Hood was a terrorist act.
And those who deny Oaklahoma City was a terrorist attack.
You denied Oklahoma city was a terrorist act? I certainly never did. Do you have a cogent point?
A lot of people, obviously not you, expect a Muslim to be involved for it to be a terrorist attack. Stop taking everything so personally.
You do know that Terry Nichols wife is the sister of the leader of Abu Sayef, Al'Quaida in the Phillipines?
Yes it was terrorism, NAZI Leftists and ISLAM once again joined at the hip.
@ Para... the only fools I know are those who do not see Islam for what it is. if you want to debate Islam start the engines bro... I am well versed in that mysoginistic babaric belief system. I studied Al'Fiqh under Mohhammud Khamali, and as we all know all the words of allah and momo are LAW. I will debate Islam in the eyes of the Itjahadi all you want.
So you go ahead and spuot your propaganda.
Yes... ralph NAZIs are Socialist, just like their dear leader Hitler, which are Leftists.
It has already been fully established as fact.
You are too late.
What would you call Hitler?
Objecting to pissing on corpses is PC? Gimme a break.
And you think we should lower ourselves to the level of the Taliban barbarians?
I think we should piss on them, if you think that is the same as beheading and mutilating you have some serious issues with reality.
If they were in your country (not mine, by the way) you could do as you please. But whence comes your authority to make the rules in their country?
If we did fight by their rules... then they would cry about the geneva convention, which does not apply, and whine about us beheading them.
Matter of fact I can tell you our soldiers would not do any of the babaric BS they do.
What a weak argument... don't piss on them... it is against thier rules.
Again where are the American prisoners of war... DEAD and thrown away like trash!
so PISS ON THEM ALL!
Much as I dislike the Taliban, I can't think of a single instance of their acting outside their geographical border. They were a local reactionary fundamentalist force. They hate foreign troops on their land, but who doesn't?
That's true, but calling them civilized is a stretch. I decided that when they dynamited the Bamian Buddhist statues and since when I've read about how they treat women. Sending troops to Afghanistan was a big mistake in my opinion. The Taliban posed no threat to the United States.
But they did harbor terrorists who did, and that alone makes them the enemy wherever they may be.
Civilised, they are not! In fact, they are barely literate, for the most part. Interestingly, Qatar (my adopted temporary home) has extended them the right to set up a bureau (not quite an embassy!) in Doha to represent themselves on an international stage. People will mock, of course, but this is not so different from the way the IRA were 'socialised' by the Major government, after the Thatcher years of 'we do not speak to terrorists' finally died a death. Slowly, slowly catch a monkey - it works.
No, but I have heard of the Third Reich, destroying it sure seemed to be a finality.
Bit of a difference there. The Third Reich was bent on Global dominance. The Taliban is not. Check out 'Hydra'. Greek mythology. Interesting.
No, there is no difference. The Taliban is its own version of the Third Reich, they seek to kill those who oppose them and enslave them to their bastardized version of Islam. Destroying their lives and ability to further their beliefs should be the goal of any leader. Unfortunately our goals have changed since the days of WW2, we seem content to send young men to die for a kinder and gentler world.
The Third Reich had the potential to realise their ambitions. The Taliban have not. If 'we' all pulled out, they would be hard pushed even to dominate Afghanistan, never mind to export their imbecility to neighbouring or remote countries. They are seen as losers by most of Christendom, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Rationalism alike. Not a good starting point!
So what you mean is if the Taliban keeps their murderous ways inside Afghanistan then let them be?
Para - you are too intelligent and compassionate for this, remember Oscar Wilde's advice, "Do not argue with fools, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience."
My impression is that the Taliban just want to be left alone. Bombing the World Trade Center wasn't their idea. They harbored Bin Laden and his terrorists because it is their custom to be a good host to guests in their community. I haven't read anywhere that they knew anything about Bin Laden's plan to attack the United States. Many of them had been our allies in driving the Russians out of Afghanistan.
The military higer-ups don't fight wars, their opinions rate just above horseshit.
I was talking about those on the ground, who are also fighting.
America's most popular president?... Maybe to a Leftists commie lover unionist he would be.
But in the real world we see him for what he is.
And yes, she is as valuble to us as clinton. He does not get a free pass for rape cause he was President.
That is some warped Leftists mentalitty.
And the Wall Streeet journal, is a conspiracy rag?
Clinton doesn't top any of these polls
* 5.1 C-SPAN poll
* 5.2 ABC poll
* 5.3 Washington College poll
* 5.4 Gallup poll
* 5.5 Rasmussen Reports poll
6 Recent president polls
* 6.1 Quinnipiac University poll
* 6.2 USA Today/Gallup poll
* 6.3 Gallup poll
* 6.4 Vision Critical/Angus Reid poll
Does two wrongs make anything ever right. If no quarter is given, no quarter will be received. They make us all look like scum. Do we lower ourselves to their level? Then we will be embroiled in a great holy war. The U.S. government doesn't want that. And no sensible citizen should be for such action. It is reprehensible. It makes the claims made about us true, not just to them, but to the entire world.
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