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Hubber Score Update

  1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
    Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago

    A month ago I announced some updates to HubScore: raw traffic is deemphasized, reader satisfaction is emphasized, and overall, the scores are a more accurate reflection of the quality of Hubs than they used to be. Today, I'd like to talk about the subsequent update to Hubber Score —  the score associated with your profile —  which will be pretty similar to the HubScore update. The new scores will roll out this afternoon and here are the changes you can expect:

    - As with HubScores, traffic is no longer as much of a consideration, but having traffic is still beneficial because reader interaction can be measured more accurately (i.e., more traffic, more data).
    - Having many Hubs with spammy elements will damage your score.
    - The way readers interact with and consume your Hubs is now a significant factor. Reader interaction includes activities such as the amount of content that gets read, relevant polls and quizzes that engage your readers, thoughtful comments left by readers, etc.

    Some of you may see your Hubber Scores drop considerably as a result of this update. Here are a few potential causes:

    - If you have at least one Hub that gets traffic, I recommend that you review and improve that Hub. Because reader satisfaction is now weighted more heavily in the scores, it is possible that your one or two top-traffic Hubs are bringing your collective score down, even if the majority of your low-traffic Hubs are high quality.
    - If you have many Hubs with spammy elements, they may have significantly contributed to your drop in score. If you remove spammy elements from your Hubs, your score should improve.
    - If your score dropped from the 90s to the high 80s, don't fret. A score in the high 80s is well above average (in the 93rd+ percentile)

    To further illustrate this last point, take a look at the distribution of Hubber Scores across the site:

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/12302255.png

    That's it for now! Expect to see your new scores later today, and please let us know if you have any questions.

    1. rebekahELLE profile image92
      rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      What about shares?  Sites linking to the hub after a successful social media share/tweet?  Is none of this factored in to the overall score?  It looks like the interaction you're measuring takes place on the page itself.
      Generally those leaving comments are other hubbers - while I enjoy and appreciate their comments, I'm more satisfied with someone finding my hub that answered their query or they found it worth a share/link.

      EDIT:  At least I went up instead of down!

      1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
        Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Outside visitors (from search, social media, etc.) have more influence on the scores than Hubbers because they constitute the majority of readers.

    2. NateB11 profile image91
      NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I like the charts that show distribution of scores. It's helpful in understanding what's a good score and what's a basically average score.

      1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
        Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Glad you find the charts helpful! You might also be interested in the other percentiles....

        Hubber Score | Percentile
        70    20.4%
        75    38.7%
        80    74.4%
        85    93.4%
        90    98.0%
        95    99.5%
        100    100.0%

        Sorry for the clunky formatting!

        1. Paul Maplesden profile image91
          Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          My score was at 99 before the change - I will never reach that hallowed number...

          1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
            Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            96 is still an excellent score! big_smile

        2. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          My Hubber score has not seen any change in ages, in spite of making edits to many hubs during this time.
          The hub scores alter continually but the average always stays the same.   Is it set in stone?
          I sometimes feel very discouraged. Nothing I do, helps to improve it. 
          I notice my profile score went down two points tonight as well.
          it is all very discouraging.

          1. Elsie Hagley profile image80
            Elsie Hagleyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Yes I agree, very discouraging.
            I have just drop from 88 down to 81, the lowest I have been since the transfer from Squidoo.

        3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I would like to see a percentage chart based on the number of writers getting the most to the least views.  Relache had one in an article awhile back, but I am not sure if she updated it or not.  Can you produce one here for us?  I think many people would like to know where their own numbers fall in the spectrum because while quality is important it does not always reflect success.  Thanks.

    3. clivewilliams profile image81
      clivewilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I dont see how my hubscore fell from 86 to 70. While the individual hubscores remained the same

      1. snakeslane profile image81
        snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        double ouch!

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          There are those although their hubscores  DIVED into the abysmal numbers, their individual hubberscores INCREASED.  Now, talk about irony.

    4. Organised Kaos profile image96
      Organised Kaosposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Can you confirm if staff of Hubpages rate hubs in the hub hopper and any other tools used by Hubpages to help determine the hub score.

      How many times do you review the scores of hubs?

      Does the hub hopper have a lot to do with it? Or do the staff and editors have any other tools used to rate hubs?

      1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
        Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Ratings from the Quality Assessment Process (QAP) do factor into HubScore. The QAP is explained in detail in this Learning Center entry: http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/Featured-Hubs

    5. Sulabha profile image81
      Sulabhaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      My score has jumped from 79 to 82. And I am happy.

      1. Thelma Alberts profile image82
        Thelma Albertsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I had mostly 95 hubscore for a few months but a few days ago it shocked me to see that it went to 85. I know I don´t have to worry about that but it was still scary then suddenly I got I think 11 hubs unfeatured in a day. Wow! That really kept me busy  updating as the traffic was bad. I´m glad I´m done now with all  the updating and hopefully will have traffic soon.

        1. brakel2 profile image86
          brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I believe that staff believes that we will work harder, if we know our scores get posted. That is the reason for all this emphasis on scoring. It is not true for me and many others that we work to get a good score. My score is in the 80s now, and I still have the same incentive as when it was in the 90s.

    6. peachpurple profile image79
      peachpurpleposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      sorry, I may sound stupid, what is spammy elements?

      1. sallybea profile image97
        sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this
      2. Paul Maplesden profile image91
        Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        From the FAQ: http://hubpages.com/faq/#Spammy-Elements

        How does HubPages define spam?
        A Hub might not be Featured because it is pure spam (e.g., spun) or contains spammy elements. When we think of spammy elements, we think of three broad categories: links, products (Amazon and eBay), and text.

        Links
        Hubs should be written for readers, not for search engines or backlinks. Even a Hub that appears high-quality on the surface can still be considered spam.

        Links that are definitely spammy:
        - Misleading or keyword-rich anchor text (e.g., “We only employ the most qualified and experienced Locksmith Dallas.”)
        - Links to pages that are not related to the subject matter of the Hub
        - Links to pages that contain information that is substantially similar to what's in the Hub
        - Links to pages with window confirmation boxes that interfere with site navigation or redirect users to unwanted websites

        Links that may be spammy:
        - Links to lead form pages or otherwise thin pages that don't offer real information*
        - Links to pages that require plug ins or applications
        - Links with reference codes (affiliate links)*
        - Links that promote a business

        * affiliate links and links to lead form pages are not spammy if they go to high-quality sites, are directly related to the subject-matter of the Hub, and benefit the reader.

        Products
        In general, product-oriented Hubs are considered spammy unless:
        - Product(s) are directly relevant and not excessive
        - If the Hub is about the product(s), then the Hub provides significant, useful information or opinion about the products beyond what could be found on Amazon's (or other seller's or manufacturer's) web site
        - If the Hub recommends a particular product, then the recommendation seems genuine, trustworthy, and unbiased
        - If the products were removed from the Hub, the remaining content would likely satisfy the reader

        Text
        Text elements of a Hub can be considered spammy even if there are no links or products. Here are some examples of spammy text:
        - Repetitive keywords (especially when bolded or italicized)
        - Plain text URLs that promote a business
        - Otherwise excessive promotion of a business or product

    7. Leptirela profile image71
      Leptirelaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I have not been active for a few years , when my Hub score was over 90+
      but then my poems (20 +) were engaging at the time and I had a lot more traffic and engagement on my hubs compared to now.
      So now that the baby has grown and I have some spare time I am back and you have just explained to me some of my worries. I think it is time to consider my hubs carefully so that I can bring that percentile a tad higher.

      Thanks for posting this  , I could have missed it then be 'buggered' until someone answered my question smile.

      And as some people have mention above, or below. The Score merely means something to the writer not to others however I would like to bring mine up so I need to start working and leave my 'procrastination mode' .
      I love to write, especially my dark-y poems and have loved HP since the very beginning. I must admit, HP is full of most talented of writers and it will be rather difficult to keep up to the standard.

      Regards x

    8. Alternative Prime profile image85
      Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, “Reader Satisfaction” if genuine, or lack thereof, and or number of “Social Shares” or lack thereof are not accurate measures or gauges of “Quality” ~ Once again, HP confuses “Popularity” with “Quality” which of course are divergent ~ A shoddily recorded “Youtube Video” of a monkey playing with a banana while standing tall on a pulpit could garner a wealth of “Reader Satisfaction” likes and a whirlwind of “Shares”, however, this is not necessarily concrete evidence of a “Quality” piece ~

      ~ Love A.P. ~

      1. Jodah profile image86
        Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        +1 very well said A.P.

        1. Alternative Prime profile image85
          Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          THX Jodah ~

        2. renaissancemama profile image60
          renaissancemamaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Exactly. I haven't been here long, but this is my take already.

      2. NateB11 profile image91
        NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        You are correct that what is popular is not the same thing as what has great quality, objectively. However, what Google will send traffic to is what is generally considered "quality content" in the writing for money and traffic world.

        I'm not disagreeing with you, just making a distinction. I'm pointing it out because I used to hate people talking about "quality" when I knew they were actually talking about popularity. However, slowly but surely becoming accustomed to the Internet writing world, I've come to sort of understand this other definition of quality purely for the purpose of understanding how to get traffic from Google.

        1. Alternative Prime profile image85
          Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Hi Nate ~

          I have virtually ZERO problem finding quality work via a Google Search, so in my humble opinion this engine of information is extremely useful, time friendly, unquestionably educational, and a highly efficient depository from which to extract data ~ HP’s apparently overwhelming hurdle is finding itself designated as a “Content Farm”, a “Quantity Driven” entity where less than stellar articles were and possibly still are, published unto the awaiting universe by much less than stellar or much less than authoritative contributors ~

          Therefore, the entire sight regardless of talent level has suffered tremendously, and those who “Claim” to have robust or “Increasing Traffic” are those individuals who are obviously the beneficiaries of an arbitrary “Luck of the Draw”, no more no less ~ Recovering from this infamous list of “Junk Yards” seems to be an impossible task for staff to figure out, whereas unfortunately, the few stellar HP writers have been penalized right along side the sinister imposters ~

          1. NateB11 profile image91
            NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            It is well-known that there is a way to write articles so  that they will get traffic from Google; this is common knowledge among those who have made it their living writing online. It is not luck, it's work and research.

            1. Jean Bakula profile image98
              Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I think the rules are getting so strict it's not even worth it to try to fix anything anymore. I have a hub which discusses the 12 houses in Astrology. It's 3500 words. I have ONE Amazon product on it, a book entitled, "The 12  Houses of Astrology." My hub was un featured, and I was told the Amazon products had to directly relate to the Hub. I've had it with this nonsense, and still believe there are different rules for different people on here.

              I wrote in and now the hub is featured again, but a lot of my hubs were unfeatured last week and called 'spammy" when I write long hubs, and usually only put one Amazon capsule on them. I find it a waste of time and never found products that relate except books. Certain crystals and gemstones relate directly to certain Astrology signs, and they are often worn as jewelry, and I've had trouble about that too. I guess I should just copy a recipe from a magazine or use one of my Mom's and take 20 pictures of what it looks like to make a dish which the recipe should adequately describe.

              1. WriteAngled profile image92
                WriteAngledposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Be it astrology, molecular biology, nuclear physics or plumbing or whatever else, if a hub is reviewed by someone with no knowledge of the subject, stupid mistakes and errors of judgement are bound to occur. Yet who do we have judging us? An algorithm that is incapable of thought and judgement, a bunch of MTurkers who are presumably for the most part unqualified and unemployed because they are desperate enough for money to work for the pittance they receive, and a huddle of HubPro editors, who seem to be exclusively graduates/PhDs in English and a few other arts/humanities fields; no scientists, clinicians, engineers, mechanics, plumbers, astrologists or others with real experience and detailed knowledge of a specific subject area.

                1. Sed-me profile image83
                  Sed-meposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Don't sugar coat it girl. Say what you mean. lol

                2. Leptirela profile image71
                  Leptirelaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Does
                  This
                  Apply
                  To
                  Those
                  Who
                  Write
                  Poetry
                  For
                  No
                  Other
                  Reason
                  But
                  Because
                  They enjoy it?
                  So everyone on HP is writing to get paid?

                  Hmm.
                  When I first began years ago I was scored well above 95 with just poetry. To come back to unfeatured hubs that i decided to delete. Though it bought thousands to HP site.

                  Never mind

                  1. Jodah profile image86
                    Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Hi Leptirela, I write mainly poetry too and would write here even if I wasn't paid anything. I learnt to intersperse poetry with stories and articles and add information to poetry hubs to keep their scores up. Now 1/4 of my hubs are not featured and I just have to concentrate on tweeting a few things to get them back up there. Still a good place for poetry if you just want to write and have it seen.

            2. Alternative Prime profile image85
              Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              You’re talking to a successful, authoritative ”Expert Writer” right here Nate ~ I’ve never applied my HP contributions as a measure of these achievements due to the nature of this sight as previously mentioned ~ My overriding point is that ALL HP Contributors regardless of talent or lack thereof, are inadvertently tethered to an anchor the size of the titanic ~

              You cannot use “Traditional SEO“, a term which is excessively subjective to say the least, Exemplary Writing Ability, nor Depth of Knowledge to overcome, re-emerge, and rise above, it just doesn’t work within the HP domain ~ Therefore, as previously mentioned, there are always exceptions in every situation and those exceptions if there truly are any, have achieved it by arbitrary selection ~ That’s the Hardcore Reality ~

    9. LuisEGonzalez profile image82
      LuisEGonzalezposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      The hubber score has been an issue worthy of discussion for some years now. No-one seems to be satisfied, much less understand them. For example until two days ago my hubber (author) score was rising  and went to about 90. Today is down to about 76. Case in point; when I first joined I immediately gravitated towards those authors who had scores of 100, 99,98 and so on. I reasoned that they were good authors since their hubber's scores were high. The same can be said for a new visitor who has no idea of what these score mean and may disregard reading a hub written by someone with less than a "stellar hubber's score". Therefore I think that hubber scores should be done away with since they can , at least in principle, appear misleading. As for the hub scores I really have no opinion.

      1. Alternative Prime profile image85
        Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Luis,

        when I first arrived here I had assumed the same thing ~ "High Hubber Score" must surely equal "Superior Hubber" ~ Then, after reading a few Hubs I realized this was not necessarily the case ~ I tried desperately to Help & Assist HP Staff to change course and avoid  the calamity that was to come, however, I was met with a clan of Angry, Disturbed, Frothingly Rabid Hubbers who came rushing into the forums only to point boney fingers while accusing me of being Charles Dickens Reincarnate, or Vincent Price, or Mark Twain, or Shania Twain, or Choo Choo Twain, David Blaine, or lord knows who else ~ I was one lonely righteous man against the illiterate ~ It was truly HORRIFYING ~

      2. amazmerizing profile image60
        amazmerizingposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        I agree Luis I think they at the very least should only be visible to online logged in hubbers... to avoid that. I did exactly what you and AP did. Ciao!

    10. lambservant profile image93
      lambservantposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Two things,

      1. I checked your spammy link and it talked a lot about products. If I do a book review and put an amazon link to that book is that spammy? Is it helpful at all?

      2. I am a little confused about high traffic hubs. You tell us to improve them (if I understood you correctly) and that they have a negative effect on lower traffic hubs. If a hub is high traffic, why does it need improving? I would think the idea would be to improve the lower traffic, scored hubs.

      Thank you for your time.

      1. Jean Bakula profile image98
        Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I think the polls are useless and stupid. If you vote in one, you can see the "votes" came from you and one other person. Not many topics are conducive to using polls.

        They seem to want full sized pictures, but what size is that? If I try to make them bigger, I get the warning that "You may have a blurry picture on your hub." I'm sure someone sarcastic will tell me this info is in the TOS.

        If you write a book review, it should be OK to put that book in an Amazon capsule. You wouldn't believe what they put me through with Astrology, just because they don't understand what rules the signs. I'm limited to Facts About Cancer Sun Signs books if my hub is called Cancer Sun Sign people.

        And the whole recipe thing just irks me. Recipes have nothing to do with writing ability, and taking pictures of a recipe step by step shows the person who needs that can't read very well. Then they make a special capsule for them.

        I've been accused of "spammy" hubs too, when I put only one Amazon capsule, maybe two, on hubs that have 2,000 to 3,000 words. I only write here because I like to write and most of the other sites are gone, but the aggravation is making it not worth the effort. The administration has no idea what it's doing, and is grasping at straws. The EC hubs I have are from hubs written in series, so theoretically, all of them in a series are just as good. I see such awful hubs that are EC, and they are usually stolen anyway.

        And I'm sure more can be done to get plagiarists away than putting a date so light on your hub that it can barely be seen.

        1. lambservant profile image93
          lambservantposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I put in lots of polls in years past and I agree, they are just useless filler, I don't get why HP encourages them. Few people ever participate in them. On rare occasions you can make them serious and valuable, but mostly they are fluff.

          1. RonElFran profile image98
            RonElFranposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            That hasn't been my experience. I have a couple of hubs where literally thousands have participated in the polls. I think it does give a sense of participation and identification with the hub. Obviously a poll that's not well thought out can be nothing but fluff. But it doesn't have to be that way.

            1. janshares profile image88
              jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I get participation on mine, too. I try to make them meaningful and directly related to the information in the hub or the reader"s personal experience about the hub topic. I think the stats for the polls is what becomes meaningless if I don't use them for anything or report the results in some way with a hub update (which I've never done).

      2. snakeslane profile image81
        snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        "2. I am a little confused about high traffic hubs. You tell us to improve them (if I understood you correctly) and that they have a negative effect on lower traffic hubs. If a hub is high traffic, why does it need improving? I would think the idea would be to improve the lower traffic, scored hubs."

        That's how I see it too!

        1. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Me too, and HP's explanation still doesn't change my opinion.

        2. rebekahELLE profile image92
          rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          If I understand the OP correctly, HP wants us to fine tune our top traffic hubs to ensure that there is satisfactory reader engagement on the page.  A hub can get high traffic without necessarily being a high quality page while lower traffic hubs may be of better quality.  It does seem to be an odd juxtaposition. hmm

          1. snakeslane profile image81
            snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Ah, yes, that is a very good point rebekahElle, thank you. Traffic + Engagement = Stellar Hub. My new mantra. wink

        3. DrMark1961 profile image90
          DrMark1961posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          If your high traffic hub appears 15,000 times on page one of Google, maybe you will have 10,000 page views. If it is improved, and more readers interact with it (bookmark it, link back to it, etc) it should appear higher on the front page, and maybe you will get 12,000 page views.
          There is always room for a little improvement...and a few more page views, even with those high traffic hubs.

    11. Decow Amazon profile image60
      Decow Amazonposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I want to ask where I could see the traffic scores???

      1. Jean Bakula profile image98
        Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Well, I'm happy for those of you who do get participation when you use the polling option. I guess it depends on the hub subject.

  2. Solaras profile image92
    Solarasposted 20 months ago

    When should we expect to see our new Hubber Scores? And will a HubberScore of under 85 still mean no follow links?

    Regarding the new HubScores, heads have been made of my tails.  Those that had the lowest HubScore now rank the highest.  However highly they are ranked by HP, they still get few views.

    1. Millionaire Tips profile image92
      Millionaire Tipsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      My top 9 hubs according to the Hubscore are all the ones unpublished because they were not getting any traffic and had the lowest scores.

      1. sallybea profile image97
        sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Should be an interesting time, over the next few days and weeks.  I had been wondering if my overall Hub score average was set in stone.  It never changed, not even when other hub scores changed and now this!smile

    2. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
      Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      This afternoon! smile

      And yes, scores below 85 will have their links nofollow (no change).

      1. liladybugz26 profile image88
        liladybugz26posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Can you please explain this? "Scores below 85 will have their links nofollow"? Thank you.

  3. paradigm search profile image82
    paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

    I'm zero spammy and my readers love me.

    https://i.imgflip.com/jd2bx.jpg

    Though I'm warming up the rant machine just in case...  big_smile big_smile big_smile big_smile big_smile

  4. ChristinS profile image94
    ChristinSposted 20 months ago

    I'll wait and see what happens, but I have to be honest - this whole "scoring" thing has always been the most annoying and tedious thing about HubPages due to all the ambiguity about what goes into the scores, how to keep them high and what they actually mean.  I think that high traffic to hubs should be part of the scoring process; it seems silly to me that was removed without a good explanation as to why.  Then again there's never been a satisfactory explanation about scores to begin with.  I foresee more frustrations being vented in the forums in the near future.

    1. 0
      Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I agree Christin, high traffic means high ad impressions. That counts. That said, I'm not sure the Hubber score really means anything except to the writer. At least that's my rationalization now that my steady 96 turned into 90 today ... after I'd spent time the last couple of weeks refreshing several hubs and promoted them. Oh well, I guess I was surprised that my score had remained so high as I have not written a new hub in maybe two years. I just find HP a non-profitable expense of my writing time when I can make a lot more elsewhere. Seems to me HP ought to be spending their limited resources on something else than tweaking the Hubber score.

  5. janshares profile image88
    jansharesposted 20 months ago

    I will put on my seat belt and prepare for the bumpy ride. As sallybea said, it should be very interesting.

    1. Solaras profile image92
      Solarasposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Hi Jan - we are both at 94 as I write - which way shall we go lol

      1. janshares profile image88
        jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        But according to the graph, we are elite!!!! For now anyway, lol. We shall see. yikes

        1. janshares profile image88
          jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Lucky you, Solaras. I hope yours stays up. I think I'll write a new hub. hmm

          1. Solaras profile image92
            Solarasposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hi Jan - I have started that slide on the slippery slope.  Can't wait to see where I end up.  Quicksand??? Maybe if I publish a new hub I can drop 4 points as I have in the past.

            1. janshares profile image88
              jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Awww Wow! Hold on . . . .  This has definitely lived up to the anticipated drama.

              1. paradigm search profile image82
                paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I do wonder why my one-and-only hub on this account has a hubscore of 86, but my author score is 82. And the masterpiece in question is already as good as it's ever going to get. I guess it's time for me to work up the energy for that second hub.

                1. janshares profile image88
                  jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I think creating new hubs is our only way out.

                  1. paradigm search profile image82
                    paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Alas, me and that neverending topic idea brick wall. I don't suppose...??? big_smile

  6. Solaras profile image92
    Solarasposted 20 months ago

    Does Hub Hopping, Commenting and community activity play into the new HubberScore or is it only based on our readers performance and our links.  Who decides what is a spammy link?

    1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
      Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Onsite activity is no longer a significant factor in Hubber Score. We still immensely value community interaction and activity, but since Hubber Score determines whether links in Hubs are nofollow as well as the traffic thresholds and trial periods for staying Featured, it makes the most sense for it to reflect the quality of one's Hubs.

      As for who decides whether a link it spammy, that would be moderators.

      1. liladybugz26 profile image88
        liladybugz26posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I am still highly confused as to "Hubber Score determines whether links in Hubs are nofollow". Please explain? Thank you.

        1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
          Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          If you have a Hubber Score below 85, all of the external links in your Hubs will be nofollow.

          If you have a Hubber Score of 85 or above, all of the external links in your Hubs should be followed.  A few other things (besides Hubber Score) can cause external links in your Hubs to be nofollow. You can read about them in this FAQ entry.

          The "rel=nofollow" tag tells search engines to not follow the links on that page (i.e., the links should not influence the link target's search engine ranking.) So, if my Hub linked to marina.com, marina.com would not benefit from the backlink because my Hub has a "rel=nofollow tag" in the HTML. If you want to read more about nofollow, check out:
          https://support.google.com/webmasters/a … 6569?hl=en
          and
          http://searchengineland.com/infographic … tag-172157

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I'm glad to hear this as I never thought linking Hubber Score to community interactions was fair.

      3. janderson99 profile image83
        janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Cheers for removal of onsite activity as a factor, which I always considered unfair. I never understood why the 100 chub members stayed there when they only unpublished infrequently and hardly ever contributed to the forums or community in any way. Some mysterious element? I guess this means that hubber score should remain stable in time?

        1. janderson99 profile image83
          janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I hope that the silly plunge in hubber score that used to occur if you published 2 or 3 hubs on the same day, though perhaps working on for weeks, is dead and buried.

  7. paradigm search profile image82
    paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aXo_jVDY1S4/VRRweFSLUwI/AAAAAAAAAVU/YicnFxBnpMk/s1600/dog-glasses.jpg
    I'm looking forward to this. I could use a pat on the head these days.

    1. sallybea profile image97
      sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      How gorgeous is that!  Give him a pat from me!  Oops, is that really you?

      1. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        https://i.imgflip.com/jd83a.jpg

        1. Paul Maplesden profile image91
          Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I love you, PS.

          1. paradigm search profile image82
            paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            lol

    2. colorfulone profile image88
      colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure if I am looking forward to this, but it will be interesting to see what happens. The forums should be lively once again though.

      I have been down to 83 for about 2 weeks now, for the record.

      1. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Interesting indeed. For the record and posterity, my 2 main accounts before the change are 78 (this account) and 88 (my original account).

        1. colorfulone profile image88
          colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I was surprised when I noticed it went from 83 to 89.
          Didn't know what to expect.
          I see in your post below you went up too. smile

          I wonder if all this new programming had something to do with the site being down for a short while this afternoon.

        2. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
          csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          PDS

          You have a blogger score in the 90's before you created another account, if I remember...  big_smile

  8. CelebrateUSA profile image90
    CelebrateUSAposted 20 months ago

    Changes, changes and more changes - I am holding on for the ride! I must say I do find the guidance at the top of each hub to be helpful.

    Question, do outside links count to the HubScore? I just learned today that the internal links have been retired and I need to keep up to the minute with this information - my score sadly fell below the no-follow so I am frantic.

    Thanks for any guidance.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      What are you talking about?  Internal links have been retired?  Really?  Where did you get this info?

  9. paradigm search profile image82
    paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

    Hark! I do believe it has happened.

    https://i.imgflip.com/jd7k7.jpg

    This account jumped from 78 to 82. My other account went from 88 to 93. Happy camper here.

    1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
      Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      LOL,  looks like it did. smile

      P.S. I am so excited for the new GoT season to start!

      1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
        CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        GoT? It feels like the Red Wedding here at HP since the new scoring went into effect.

    2. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
      csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Congratulations!  smile

      1. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Thanks! Yep, got through it unscathed. I firmly believe my having zero Amazon and Ebay capsules had to have played a major part, leastwise for me.

        1. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Many of us, myself included need to earn from our writing here.  It it were not for Amazon sales this month (10) there would be very little in the way or earnings coming from HubPages.  I think I would rather have a low score than no earnings.

          1. paradigm search profile image82
            paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Agreed. If I were to come up with an Amazon/eBay item that actually sold, I'd keep it, too. Believe me, I've tried. lol

  10. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
    Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago

    Update: your new score should appear by 6 pm Pacific (if it hasn't already).

    1. Jodah profile image86
      Jodahposted 20 months ago

      Got my new score...down from 96 to 90. Could be worse I guess, at least I'm still above 85. Good luck everyone..it's just like the lottery.

      1. psycheskinner profile image79
        psycheskinnerposted 20 months ago

        Wow.

        I get slapped with a 10 point drop with some vague suggestion to brush up my high traffic hubs.

        Talk about demotivating.

        1. janshares profile image88
          jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Oh no, psycheskinner! Seriously? I hope the brushing up will help. Hang in there.

        2. CatherineGiordano profile image93
          CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          You actually got feedback, psycheskinner?  That's great. I don't know why my score dropped other than the formula for computing scores has changed and I didn't even know that until I read the posts in this thread.  A little warning would be nice. I never heard about the no-follow rule either.  It looks like that is based on hubber score. Am I correct that the score of the individual hub does not involved in no-follow? Demotivating is an understatement.

          1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
            Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            This FAQ entry lists the reasons an external link could be nofollow: http://hubpages.com/faq/#linksnofollow

        3. Lady Lorelei profile image77
          Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Yep, this update is so funny when you look at it in this light. High traffic from Google? STOP IT! Change that damn Hub.

        4. snakeslane profile image81
          snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          ouch!

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Exactly, it is beyond demotivating.  It is immobilizing, even psychologically/psychically paralyzing. These updates have a very deleterious effect upon those whose hubscores dropped significantly, especially to the 70s, 60s, and below.  It is analogous to the hubber being given a dunce cap.  Such hubbers are going to have their hard earned credibility destroyed, if not ruined. They will no longer be respected.  What outside reader is going to read their hubs?  It is a very sad state of affairs now at HubPages indeed.
            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/12307355.jpg

      2. janderson99 profile image83
        janderson99posted 20 months ago

        I have plunged to the 'not too bad engagement zone' of the high 80's. I have been joined by Paul Edmonson and Marina Lazarevic, no less!

        1. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          +++

        2. Lady Lorelei profile image77
          Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Like Like Like. I always say that one should lead by example.

      3. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        I wonder if we will now see a massive slaughter by Hubbers of their nonperforming Amazon and eBay capsules. Not a bad idea actually.

        1. janderson99 profile image83
          janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Why? Such a lot of work to get a better hubber score? Why?

          1. paradigm search profile image82
            paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            They're going to at least want to get that critter to 85. big_smile

            Not to mention getting themselves put in more Related Hubs lists.

          2. paradigm search profile image82
            paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this
      4. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago

        Puzzling - my overall average for content went up, but my Hubberscore dropped by one point. As long as I stay in the right range, I should not complain.  I'm glad they're not factoring in the number of thorns we jab in their sides - I've been pretty vocal.

        In other news - there is, indeed justice. I just checked, and the Hubberscore of a really bad spammer has tanked beyond belief. Way, way under 75. I had reported the account a while back, but the account is still on the site. It has many hubs, all of them filled with spammy links & some are unauthorized affiliate links.  I don't know if there are hazards to having such an account remain on the site - does Google get mad if people click on a page and then can't follow links?  Google is so fickle.

        Anyway - there must be something in the number-crunching that assigned a Hubberscore for that account at the sub-basement level, and I can attest it needed to be there. Good.

      5. gmwilliams profile image86
        gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago

        My hubscore went from a 93 to an...........80.  Quite Unbelievable to say the least.
        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/12303194.jpg

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          No way!  Start working on some hubs, and share a few on social media if you can. 

          One good thing about the new score is that it shows us real data that can help us address things. If we get 'points' for being active on the site, that tells us nothing. So, we now have information that's useful. Vague, maybe, but it has a sense of direction.

          Here's hoping the formula no longer penalizes people for writing new content - at least not once the content passes inspection. That was demoralizing.

          1. sallybea profile image97
            sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Perhaps we worry too much, scores of some of the staff members I looked at are no higher than ours.

          2. 0
            Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Vague information is no information at all. It's totally subjective. You'd be taking reactive steps without knowing if they are in the right direction and the feedback time is soooooo long before your next guess.

            1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
              Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I see your point about vague - but it's way better than having a profile score that factors in how often you post comments, or whether you view your buddies' hubs on a regular basis.  It's also better than a score that rewards spammers who might get views, but whose spammy content jeopardizes the whole site.

              My point was meant to say the number has more information and true value than before, and that's a huge improvement over scores that added in things Google doesn't care about. Quality and traffic - I can go with that, and can do something (or at least try) to increase my stock. But adding points for hopping hubs, posting comments, viewing internally, etc. offers no useful information.

      6. Gabriel Wilson profile image90
        Gabriel Wilsonposted 20 months ago

        I'm down from an average 96 to a nofollow (whatever that is) 84. Happy Easter everyone smile

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/12238180.jpg

      7. janderson99 profile image83
        janderson99posted 20 months ago

        They are coming in endless waves now! Down, Down, Down
        I don't know how long I can hold on!

      8. janderson99 profile image83
        janderson99posted 20 months ago

        It will be interesting to see how Google reacts to the massive changes to the link structure on HP for those who drop below 85. Here's hoping!

      9. Easy Exercise profile image91
        Easy Exerciseposted 20 months ago

        This is the most dramatic shift I have seen. The roller coaster ride is difficult - only the brave will survive. Good luck everyone.

        1. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          With the extent of the drop in scores (mine by 7 points so far) there will be a lot of hubbers dropping below the magic 85 number.

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I was so ensconced in my 93 hubscore and then yesterday......................80..................
            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/12304177.jpg

            1. paradigm search profile image82
              paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              That would have freaked me, too.

            2. snakeslane profile image81
              snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              it's harsh. I don't get it....

              1. gmwilliams profile image86
                gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                It is analogous to being cast out of heaven...............into the PITS of hell.  No more glory, only.............ignominy..................IGNOMINY of the VERY WORST kind.  A total persona non grata.  Welcome to.......HELL, where one is no longer a person but ............reduced to UTTER NOTHINGNESS.

                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/12307363.jpg

                1. snakeslane profile image81
                  snakeslaneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  So much drama gm, but I feel your pain. I hope you're ok.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image86
                    gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    No, I am feeling quite venomous RIGHT NOW!
                    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8628664.jpg

                2. Solaras profile image92
                  Solarasposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Careful - the real PITS of HELL are much more dire, desolate and filled with despair than a temporary drop in HubberScore.  Don't invite what you do not desire...I do believe it is relatively easy to invite the negative into your life.

                  Take heart, you are loved and respected, and the lower score probably means you had high traffic that has been removed from your score calculation.

                  Mess with images and their captions etc.. It might bring things back to normal and even increase your  views.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image86
                    gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Thank you my dear.  I shall be positive, have a WONDERFUL BLESSED NIGHT.

                    1. Solaras profile image92
                      Solarasposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Meow - Woof! Good night!

      10. gmwilliams profile image86
        gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago

        I am.........RUINED.........RUINED.......I tell you............
        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/12304306.jpg

      11. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        @HP Any chance of HP updating the http://hubpages.com/my/hubs/violations program to give us more clues? smile

        1. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I would like to see more automatic warnings appear WHEN you write a hub.  Sometimes a comment appears when you have subtitles all in lower case'   These can automatically be altered at the click of a button.
          It would be so nice to receive a warning for other potential violations at the time of writing a hub.  How about, you have too many amazon or e-bay capsules etc.,  If these appeared when you create a hub, I think spammy hubs might become a thing of the past.  The same could be done for links.

        2. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
          Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Yes, actually! Maybe not on this exact page, but we are discussing ways we can provide more specific feedback about what to improve in a Hub.

          1. sallybea profile image97
            sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Apologies Marina, perhaps I went off subject and could perhaps have made this suggestion elsewhere.

          2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Here's a good question for you:  How do you determine traffic? For example, if someone has a hub that has been very successful but later the traffic drops to only a few views per day or month...which traffic is used for deciding whether to unfeature a hub?

      12. RTalloni profile image87
        RTalloniposted 20 months ago

        Ouch, 94 down to 86 in a blink!  Thanks for the info and links to learn more.

      13. calculus-geometry profile image87
        calculus-geometryposted 20 months ago

        I'm confused.  If hubberscore has been updated to better reflect the quality of our articles, then why do dog, cat, and hamster have scores in the 70s despite having no hubs? Their scores are not much lower than those of genuine users who actually produce content, and in some cases their scores are higher than genuine users' scores.

        1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
          CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          That is bewildering. I have heard that people who are new to HP get a grace period with a good hubber score, but these accounts are years old.

        2. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          No writing, no hubs, no spam, wonder why those profiles are not deleted after a period of no activity at all.

        3. psycheskinner profile image79
          psycheskinnerposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Quite.  I think lowering the scores of spammers and banned people would be the first step, before pushing active users to within 5 points of what those idjits get scored at.

          75 might be a perfectly fine score if I didn't see hubbers who have done *precisely nothing at all* still getting 70, so my 180 hubs and 1000s of dollars earned equates to all of 5 points.

          Alternatively, let us turn the damn score off and focus on what is actually important.

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

          2. Ramkitten2000 profile image93
            Ramkitten2000posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Agreed 110%! This is becoming a joke. Actually, it already is.

            1. Lady Lorelei profile image77
              Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              So agree and it is getting very de-motivating to have to have new guidelines thrown our direction within a couple months of each other. Good Gravy at least give things 6 months to a year to see if they work. Right now the catch phrase seems to be: Let our editors work on your Hubs if you want it done right. I am a pretty patient person but I am getting pretty tired of the never ending game.

              PS: If articles are so bad that they have to be completely rewritten by your editors then maybe they should not be here.

        4. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
          Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          We need to assign scores to every account. When an account has no Hubs, it has no data, and we simply don't know whether it could be good or bad. However, I agree that 70 seems too high a score for these accounts. I have sent this feedback to engineering. Thanks!

          1. colorfulone profile image88
            colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Good move. AWESOME move actually!

          2. WriteAngled profile image92
            WriteAngledposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Surely the only valid score for a parameter for which no data exists is zero.

            1. calculus-geometry profile image87
              calculus-geometryposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I agree, however, I think banned and flounced members should at least get a point for their dead profiles if they go out if a fiery blaze of glory. smile

              1. colorfulone profile image88
                colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I see a hubber that moved all their hubs in a fiery has a 75 Hubberscore.

          3. Jodah profile image86
            Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I agree too, 70 is too high for accounts with no hubs or activity. I recently checked out a new Hubber who has eight hubs And a score of only 54. Admittedly English isn't their first language but the hub content was good. At least they have hubs so shouldn't score less then others with none. Maybe you shouldn't receive any score until you publish your first hub.

      14. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago

        I've asked about that for a long while.  Maybe the number of 'registered users' has a financial implication for the site in terms of rankings or ad revenue. But they're wasted space, IMO, and ultimately devalue the site in many ways. At least we know they're no-follows.  Not that there are any links to follow.

        1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
          CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I think HP may grade on a curb.  If someone get 100 everyone else has to move down a notch. If a hub gets unfeatured, everyone moves up a notch.  Maybe that is part of the reason scores change all the time.. How can a hub score rise or fall 30 or 40 points when it is unchanged and the incidence of commenting and the traffic is unchanged.  We can't see the number of up or down votes, so maybe that plays a role.

          1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
            CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            grade on a CURVE is what I meant to write.

            1. 0
              Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I think you got it right the first time! smile

      15. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        https://i.imgflip.com/jelep.jpg

        1. NateB11 profile image91
          NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          lol

      16. Gabriel Wilson profile image90
        Gabriel Wilsonposted 20 months ago

        You know it's geting a bit confusing around here to be honest: one minute it's all about driving traffic to your hubs; now that doesn't count. Back links were in then they were out. Advertising was in now it's out. What about just encouraging everyone to write: to write well; to write interesting and fun articles; be part of a great team and everyone enjoy reading each others stuff; comment and give feedback to each other. Oh! like it USE TO BE ...

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Amen to that!

        2. 0
          Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Naaah, then a lot of HP staff would be out of work.

      17. makingamark profile image75
        makingamarkposted 20 months ago

        I find HubPages more and more opaque with every change they make.

        I worked for many years where I conceived, developed, monitored and managed performance indicators for government and all I can say is that there is nothing I've seen so far on this site which conforms to industry good practice.

      18. Paul Maplesden profile image91
        Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago

        I think that one of the things that would be helpful to know (and that might calm some troubled waters) is 'What are Hubber Scores actually used for on the site?

        To be clear, I'm not talking about scores for individual hubs, but rather our overall hubber score. The only impact that I am aware of is that under a score of '85' the links on your hub become 'nofollow'.

        Could an HP member of staff clarify if there are any other effects of a high or low hubber score, for example:

        - Impact on whether your hub is shown as a 'related hub'
        - Impact on traffic thresholds and trial periods to be featured
        - Impact on advertising rates or earnings
        - Impact on whether your hubs are chosen for Hub of the Day, Editor's Choice or Hub Pro (assuming you are opted in)
        - Any other impact

        Understanding what hubber score actually does (or doesn't do) for us would help to clear up some concerns, I am sure.

        1. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
          Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Absolutely, and great question. Hubber Score has two purposes:

          1) it determines whether all external links in the Hubs of an account are nofollow (i.e., 85, more on that here).
          2) it determines the amount of traffic Hubs in an account need to stay Featured and the length of time they have to accrue that traffic (more on that here).

          To go through your other examples real quick:

          Impact on whether your hub is shown as a 'related hub'
          Nope. HubScore has some effect on this, though.

          Impact on traffic thresholds and trial periods to be featured
          Yes. That's above.

          Impact on advertising rates or earnings
          No.

          Impact on whether your hubs are chosen for Hub of the Day, Editor's Choice or Hub Pro (assuming you are opted in)
          No, but we might look at Hubs eligible for EC based on HubScore or Hubber Score, but a Hub doesn't need a particular score to become HOTD or EC.

      19. janderson99 profile image83
        janderson99posted 20 months ago

        Given that most Hubber scores have been lowered very significantly with many bad consequences (see quote below and above) - The message from the universal downgrade to the community is that HP thinks most folk in the community are bad writers or worse than they were regarded last week. Even those who are in the 'not too bad high 80's club' get punished. Why does HP feel it has to punish the community of writers in this way? How does HP feel authors will react to this slap? Traffic is no longer a measure of success nor apparently a thing to strive for and be rewarded for with boosted hubber score. The hubber score and hubscore criteria are still vague and kept secret.

        Quote from Marina:

        "since Hubber Score determines whether links in Hubs are nofollow as well as the traffic thresholds and trial periods for staying Featured, it makes the most sense for it to reflect the quality of one's Hubs." + position on topic pages and for 'related hubs'?
        Quality has been redefined once again => dwell times, linger longer???

        1. clivewilliams profile image81
          clivewilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          i am just taking my sweet time to remove my content and simply put them elsewhere. Too many hill and gully rides here.

          1. 0
            Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I'm with you clivewilliams. I don't have a lot of hubs, but that content can be repurposed elsewhere more profitably.

        2. Marina Lazarevic profile image87
          Marina Lazarevicposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          It is not true that most Hubber Scores have been lowered significantly. Some scores dropped, others went up. Overall, it was about equal.

          1. janderson99 profile image83
            janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            @Marina Could you please provide before and after frequency distributions for hubber score? Thanks

      20. janshares profile image88
        jansharesposted 20 months ago

        Continue to keep your seat belts in locked position as the next Google algorithm hits next month. If your hubs aren't 'moblie friendly' you'll be hit again by Google. I've already begun some heavy editing in order to survive and maintain. With all these changes, I sadly expect to see a lot of hubbers exiting. So sad.

        1. Susana S profile image92
          Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          All hubs are mobile friendly so that won't be an issue. The doorway page changes could get us though...

          1. Lady Lorelei profile image77
            Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I am thinking that the doorway pages change might actually help out a bit. Maybe people will come directly to our article rather than being redirected to topics etc.

      21. Sue Adams profile image93
        Sue Adamsposted 20 months ago

        According to
        http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/126482? … ost2717644

        A week ago, on 20th March 2015, 9:00 am GM time, there were a total of 70,800 hubbers on HubPages.

        Of those 70,800 hubbers, only 4,423 hubbers had Hubber Scores above 85 (86 and higher).

        Source on that date:
        http://hubpages.com/authors/best/?page=223

        _____________________________________________

        Today, 27th March 2015, 9:50 pm GM time, there are a total of 69,600 hubbers on HubPages.
        Of those 69,600 hubbers,  4,772 hubbers have Hubber Scores above 85 (86 and higher).

        Source today:
        http://hubpages.com/authors/best/?page=240

        _____________________________________________

        Conclusion:
        In one week we have lost 1,200 hubbers.
        At this rate, it would take (69,600 / 1200) 58 weeks, or just over a year, to lose the current number of hubbers.

        On the upside, for what it's worth, 349 more hubbers than last week have a Hubber Score above 85 (86 and higher).

        On the downside, my income is more than half this month than my annual average. I do not want to go, I so much love HubPages, but it sure doesn't look promising.

        1. colorfulone profile image88
          colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          We will never know how many of those 1200 Hubbers had their accounts deleted and how many left. - Interesting post, Sue.

          1. janshares profile image88
            jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Thanks Sue, for the stats.

          2. 0
            Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Next week's stats will show at least one less hubber who left. I guarantee that! smile

            1. brakel2 profile image86
              brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              My hubber drop was not too bad  for now, but I have more unfeatured hubs than ever. I guess staff is doing a total reworking of the site. Survival is so important. I just don't like so many changes. I used to love having a decent hubber score as an ego lift. In these times, feeling good about yourself is so important, but expecting scores to do it is probably a foolish hope. We need to make our own selves feel good. I agree that folks may leave who don't want to put a lot of work in the site right now.

              1. janderson99 profile image83
                janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                The drop in hubber score triggered more unfeaturing because lower scores have higher traffic thresholds etc. One leads to the other. I had 50 or so triggered by my punishment (drop in hubber score) - all fixed now!

                1. brakel2 profile image86
                  brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Wow, you are fast. Congratulations.

            2. Sue Adams profile image93
              Sue Adamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              More than one to be sure. Read this extremely related hub:
              http://goody5.hubpages.com/hub/Google-vs-the-Hub-Pages

              1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Sue Adams:  That hub was written two years ago, and here we still are!  Yes, the site is struggling and yes, the team has made a fair number of mistakes, but they are now trying to correct them.  It does nobody any good to set a panic going because doing that will surely shut HP down...is that what you really want?  If not, why did you link to this article?  Someone new would read it and opt out immediately, and we could lose a good writer.  I know some good writers left, but may have remained, and if losing people is the result of getting rid of spam and low level articles, then I am all for it.
                The team now has the opportunity to mop up the mess and those who rise from the ashes have a chance to really be part of something important here.  That is how I see it, and that is why I stay here.  This is the best writing venue I know of, they always pay on time and are constantly striving for improvement.  That's enough for me.

        2. janderson99 profile image83
          janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Thanks Sue. I would still like to see the frequency distribution as I suspect that many writers in the 90's have been downgraded to the high 80's and have suffered the consequences.

        3. Barbara Kay profile image84
          Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I've been here for 5 years and have updated my top hubs so many times that I refuse to do it right now. I'm still at 85 (down from 95), but how long will it be before it is below 85 and I'll have to update them again? As I'm updating them, my earnings keep going down. It isn't what you'd call motivating.

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            My hubscore went from 93 to a very low of 80.  I never had such a low score before.  My hubscores wavered from the mid 90s to high 80s, now.....THIS.   This is really the straw that broke the camel's back.  This is so unfair, don't you think?   Many good writers are going to.......EXIT!

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              GM, unless you are trying to drive traffic to your other sites, I can't see that it matters.  You should take it as an indication that HP isn't seeing what it thinks drives traffic according to google and try to figure out why.  Not as a slap to you as a writer.

              Looking at a couple of your hubs (Divide part ii and parents prepare kids) something strikes me right off.  HP has repeatedly said that we need to optimize for the mobile crowd, and these most definitely are not.  Both are a long, left shifted, column of text and a long, right shifted, set of photos.  Try looking at them on a phone if you can; the result will shock you.  HP turns the photos into full width, centered, pics, above the text capsule on the left, which makes for an awful lot of scrolling. 

              Suggest you try to figure out how to fix this.  I am working on my own hubs - I write "how to" stuff, with lots and lots of thumbnail photos, shifted right to be alongside what is being explained, and it absolutely DOES NOT work on a phone.  I've got 1,000 word hubs with 20 photos, all full size and centered above the relevant text on a phone; it does not work at all.  So, I'm trying to do something to make these hubs better for mobile readers while not ruining the careful layout I've set up for a monitor screen.  Not easy!

              (I also caught a handful of grammar errors - you might proof your hubs again.  I know I always find this kind of stuff when I do go back and edit.

              1. gmwilliams profile image86
                gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Thank you for the suggestion, it is greatly appreciated in kind. Learn something new each day here.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Well, I don't know that it will help, but rumor has it that the next Panda update will address this very issue from an SE placement standpoint.  I for one do NOT want to see my traffic halved yet again because Big G doesn't like the way it looks on a phone.   *sigh*  A never ending battle, on a forever changing battlefield.  And when I signed on I was looking for a passive income I could set up and walk away from. sad

                  1. paradigm search profile image82
                    paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    For what it's worth, every time I look at AdSense, it says HP is doing a bang up good job as to mobile; 5 out of 5 aka 100%. Apparently applies to my Blogger websites, too. I think we will be ok there.

                    1. wilderness profile image96
                      wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Possibly because the algorithm is not a person.  My poor hubs really did look, and read, poorly on a phone.

                  2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                    TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Wilderness:  Have you thought about using videos instead of numerous photos on your "How to" hubs?  I have done this, and it works well.  You Tube has all kinds of videos that may help you.   It would resolve the step by step photo issue for you.

              2. Barbara Kay profile image84
                Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I wish we could have smaller photos to center instead of such large ones. I'd like to be able use the ones that are now on the right side and center them, but have them the smaller size or a at least a smaller size. At one time we had more choices.

              3. 0
                Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                "You should take it as an indication that HP isn't seeing what it thinks drives traffic according to google and ***try to figure out why.***"  My emphasis added. Yep, but the rub is that HP spends their time tweaking hubber scores opaquely and expends very little effort educating writers about what makes a money-making hub. I've suggested this to them many times over the years. It's not rocket science, people could be educated here, but they refuse to do it except in the most indirect ways.

          2. Sue Adams profile image93
            Sue Adamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I had a 100 Hubber Score a few months ago. It dwindled down to 96, and look at it now: 91
            The more I edit and comply with HP advice the lower my Hubber Score and my earnings get. It looks like we are all on a downward spiral.

            1. janderson99 profile image83
              janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              The new mantra at HP is dwell time which is their defacto measure of 'user satisfaction', which is not tested for all hubs and can only be measured for hubs that get traffic. The trouble with dwell time is that it can be a frustrating delay waiting for all the stuff to load and having to wade through all the stuffing to get to the kernel goodies. Traffic and SERP position are the true measures of user satisfaction (a la Google - they know and know, that they know) => users get what they want quickly and easily and post links in response. Are queues satisfying?

              I am reminded of some great common names for rainforest vines - Wait-a-While and Linger Longer - which have a common feature THORNS!

            2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              How would you know that?  Because a small number of writers compared to the total come onto the forums to share their upset?  That is not a fair statement.  I'm not having any problems, money is up and so is CPM...so please do not assume you can speak for everybody here just because you are going through a little bump right now.  It is not all of us, believe me!

        4. Solaras profile image92
          Solarasposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          My CPM is down 62% from last June; so while my pageviews are up, my earnings are fizzling.  Very discouraging towards new writing.

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            It can be quite disheartening to say the very least.

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Here's the problem as I see it.  Although this score drop has been disheartening for many, I think it is a wake up call from the team that is telling us we must do better.  Come April 15, Google is going to stir things up again, and if major upgrades are not done prior to that date, what we are seeing now will be nothing compared to the loss of views and income. 

              Yes, redoing again and again is hard work, but the internet is changing so fast now that it's keep up or lose.  This is one of the reasons I always try to keep my number of articles around 100...if I had to consistently upgrade more than that, I would give up.

              Rather than spend time trying to get numbers, I would rather upgrade what I have that is already earning and one by one, drop those that are stagnant.  This is why it is so important to take a critical look at hubs and decide if the problem is:

              the quality of the writing and content
              the subject matter
              the competition
              the title
              mobile friendly photos and ads

              or something else.  I cannot write a hub about Breast Cancer and compete with the American Cancer Society web site.  No matter how good, how search friendly or  full of good content, writing this article is a waste of time.

              So, having said that, I am not advising anybody to do what I am doing and have been doing for a long time, which is to constantly prune my garden. 

              We need to remember that we are in a very competitive business and painful as it is, what is happening is not HP's fault.  The team is trying to help this site survive, and we have to pitch in and help them do it.  Otherwise, it is over.

              1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Well said, time Traveler 2.

          2. CatherineGiordano profile image93
            CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I have seen an inverse relationship. Views go up and CPMs go down. That is frustrating.

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I have seen that also, but it is not consistent.  Sometimes you get lucky and both go up!!

              1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I haven't see that yet.  I have decided to actually chart it to prove the inverse relationship . (or disprove it.)

                1. paradigm search profile image82
                  paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I think our traffic is going to be pretty grim for the next 10 days, seeing signs of it already; I mean everywhere, not just HubPages. The HP ad program will definitely be a better place to be than AdSense.

        5. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          There is no doubt that we are losing hubbers, but you should remember that we are also gaining some as time goes on.  Furthermore, while some leave because of frustration, others leave because they simply do not want to do all of the work, and I suspect many of those may not have been producing much, anyhow.  Also, I would remind you that the team is now pruning out the worst articles and writers, so this contributes to those numbers, also.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Very true.  I lost another to the "unfeatured due to lack of traffic" symbol today.  Freshened it, updated this and that; if it still doesn't perform in a few months it's gone.  A HOTD, too!

            1. colorfulone profile image88
              colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              So, a LotD can become a hub of the past, (even if it is evergreen I suppose). It is good that you accept that a once upon a time well performing hub will see The End.  For the sake of the site.
              Noble!

          2. 0
            Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            The amount of growth in hubbers, especially good ones, is miniscule. It's not enough to keep HP in business against competitors in the long run. They are losing share.

            1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
              Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I don't know if I agree that it's a losing battle. It might be, but I hope not. 

              It appears the site finally found a way to locate and address spam content (which G penalizes). I think, if the site can address the bad content, we already have a sizable inventory of quality content and a stable good writers. If the good content isn't been downgraded due to the spammers and low-quality content, it will get more traffic from Google, and will help the site survive. That will attract additional good writers.

              One problem has been the huge amount of really bad content, and understandable limits on how to locate it and address it. If there's a system in place (which I now think might be the case) to factor the ratio of junk in an account, it's far less labor intensive for the staff to manually check it and then address it.

              The reason I think this might be happening is because I personally know of a very spammy account that got slapped hard with a major drop - huge - in the Hubber profile score. It also had scores of spammy hubs either unpublished or unfeatured just since the new system kicked in. I know this can't be the only such account being addressed - so this gives me hope.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I think you're right - if HP can survive the short term drop in cash flow (and I think they can or they wouldn't be doing it) then the long term result should be greater income for both the company we the hubbers that are left.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I totally agree. Let's choose quality over quantity, hang in there, work on our hubs and make it better for all concerned.  People need to stop whining and start writing and upgrading!

                  1. rebekahELLE profile image92
                    rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    TT, I understand initial complaints when a hubber score drops.  I think you probably do also. Mine had dropped before the update to 84.  At first I was frustrated and wondered why, as I had always had a score in the mid-high 90's.  But after a while those high scores mean nothing.  We just get used to having them regardless of what we may or may not be doing for the site. 
                    I agree that instead of whining and complaining, hubbers don't need to take their scores personally.  It's not personal. In an earlier post Marina said the hubber score has two purposes:

                    1) it determines whether all external links in the Hubs of an account are nofollow (i.e., 85, more on that here).
                    2) it determines the amount of traffic Hubs in an account need to stay Featured and the length of time they have to accrue that traffic (more on that here).


                    Basically the hubber score is for HP, it's not so much a score of an authors ability or talent. Mine is still not where I want it, but it increased from 84 to 89.  Traffic has also increased.  I'm not going to get crazy about it, I'm simply making necessary changes and observing what works best.

                    1. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                      CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      rebeckahElle: point about the amount of traffic needed. Could yu provide the link to "more about that here."  Thanks.

                      1. rebekahELLE profile image92
                        rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Sure, here is the post I referenced.  Links are there.  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/129577? … ost2719788  I'll add it to my previous post.

              2. 0
                Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I seriously do not think my hubs are spammy in the least, yet I got hit. Whatever! Half are now deleted and going elsewhere. The other half will go later.

                I know this is not scientific in the least, but the reason I became disillusioned with HP a long time ago, aside from the thrashing around Google releases is this:

                I write a LOT of web content articles and do very well with it. Every article requires a lot of research, dozens of searches, etc. The vast majority are topics common on HP. Yet, it is a rare time, like 1 in 100, that an HP article is on the first, second, third page of Google results.

                If that doesn't tell you something ...

                1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
                  Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I know that for any dedicated and professional writer, any hit at all feels like a punch to the gut.  Your score is still extremely high - you're in the 90th and above percentile. We would hate to see you leave the site, because you clearly know how to produce great content. 

                  Many other really great writers (also with terrific content) have had decreased scores. The scores do not reflect what HP thinks about us or our content, they're based on an analysis system HP now has that indicates how Google will treat our particular accounts and the latest SEO trends and whims. Sure, it's possible that the same content will perform differently on another site, but we're on HP, and Google factors that in as well.

                  I believe HubPages has the talent and opportunity to become the benchmark example for UGC sites of the future. Those sites won't go away, and Google needs them, too.  Our site is the only one known for working on the quality and elements that will attract solid traffic and keep it in good graces with Google.

                  The numbers are now useful (more so than before).  I understand that HP can't have complete transparency, because Hubbers who game the system will use that as a tool for more spam.

                  Your hubs clearly are not spam - if they were, your score would now be below 30 (I've seen how it works now - and I am so glad they created a filter to find that junk). 

                  A while back, I played around and edited quite a few  hubs, and  I am continuing to do that. I think that's one of the only things that kept my score from dropping considerably. The future still remains to be seen here, but I want to stick around and see how it works out.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image86
                    gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    That is what I have to do also.  My hubscore has decreased from the 90s to 80 because I have many nonfeatured  hubs due to engagement.  In fact, out of 415 hubs, at least 360 are featured while 6 are in the process of being written and the rest fit the nonfeatured-engagement category.  Some will be revamped while the others will be deleted and a new topic will take their place.  However, I am ill with a cold and will rest for a week before revamping the hubs.

                2. NateB11 profile image91
                  NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I hope you stay too.

                  But I have to say this: It is simply not true that Hubs don't get on the first page of Google results. I've heard this charge before and it's simply not true. What it is, is only certain subjects/keyphrases will get on the first page. Unfortunately, if you are writing on a subject that won't get on the first page, then you end up with no traffic; even if that subject matter has significance and you write in-depth articles about it. Believe me, I had to get rid of my frustration over that a long time ago. It's a pile of you know what, but it's the Internet.

                3. colorfulone profile image88
                  colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Respectfully. - It tells me a lot if the articles we write are as you say, "The vast majority are topics common on HP."  If the topics are common on HP, those topics are most likely saturated topics on the world wide web. There is a lot of competition out there for popular to write about topics. Unless we can do it better than the competition we should maybe shy away from those topics. There are no guarantees no matter how well we can write.  (I'm talking to myself here too, @Casimiro)

                  A few Hubbers have been moving hubs and reported more traffic in the forums. But, just about anything newly re-published is going to get a surge of traffic somewhere else. (I'm just talking out loud.)

                  Wishing you the best! Sorry you are leaving.

                  1. NateB11 profile image91
                    NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Good point about saturated topics. I was thinking about that too. It's just not a good idea to write about what's already been written about.

                    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                      TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      The trick is to find topics that have not already been saturated but still will get people to search for them.  Not so easy!

                    2. 0
                      Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Unless you can do a much better job than everyone else, which is not impossible at all, AND can promote it properly. OTOH, nowadays it's more than just text content with which you are competing.

                  2. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Worse, google will reportedly not put more than one article per site on the front page of a search.  Meaning that if HP has 10 articles on subject X, only one will be shown high in the SERP's, regardless of how bad articles from elsewhere on the web are. 

                    I know that isn't strictly true - I've seen my own hubs in positions 1 and 2 - but do think it is a general guideline for google.

                    1. 0
                      Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Didn't know that wilderness. That's one reason you need to spread out your web presence among different social services. I have a small, kitchen table charity I run here fixing up old (sometimes technologically ancient) PCs and donate them to local Tico families who never had a PC. Type "PC donate Costa Rica" in google and you'll see I get 7 out of the 10 entries on the first page. Two are from my CRPCR blog, the rest are from Google+, FB, Twitter, etc. Not a likely search string, but just providing an example of how we could all improve our presence if we have the knowledge and tools. In this case, I didn't do any kw research, it's just luck and being in a small niche.

                4. 0
                  Casimiroposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Personally, I think HP should spend a lot more time educating writers here on how to improve SERP. It's too difficult for most of us to really nail down how to find profitable keywords, weave them into the text, etc. It's one thing to write about what you know and what you like, but that very often does not translate into high search engine ranking, which is the name of the game at the bottom line.

                  Furthermore (while I have the soap box), HP is already starting to look old-fashioned compared to new visual trends happening on the web, which are attracting a lot of attention. Not just talking about mobile, but things like HTML5, eye-catching, active graphics and ways to interact. Compared to how the technology is advancing, HP will soon look like an old BBS on a text-only terminal.

      22. brakel2 profile image86
        brakel2posted 20 months ago

        Will many people have the below 85 penalty? It looks like more below than above. I guess we can't worry about scores, right?

        1. paradigm search profile image82
          paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          My one-and-only hub on this account has no external links, so I have the luxury of not needing to care at this point. Hopefully my score will be 85+ by the time I write a hub that does have an external link.

          Edit. Oops, make that any external links I care about.

      23. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago

        Here's a (sort of) related question:

        A certain account here has nearly 100 hubs that are mostly spam. When the new scores were loaded yesterday, I checked the account, and the Hubberscore had dropped from maybe the 70s or 80s to 20. Yes - 20.  Today it dropped another point, to 19.  The hubs still appear, if you click on the profile, and they're all spammy, with links that drive traffic elsewhere. They're junk. This person has (or did have) more than one account, also with spam issues.

        WHY is that account even on here?  And why are those hubs still visible?  Yes, I reported this person a while back - nothing was done.

        This is the type of content that drives down the value of the entire site.  We're all having discussions about editing content that's already good, changing photos and layouts, finding minor typos, etc., and this person (albeit, with a Hubberscore of 19) still has several dozen spam-o-rama hubs on the site.

        1. Robin profile image
          96
          Robinposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Hi Marcy,  One of the benefits of doing all of the HubScore work is that we can analyze Hubs with low HubScores and make decisions on featuring, defeaturing, and unpublishing easier.  If you email me the link to the account, I'll take a look.

          1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
            Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Robin -

            Thanks for responding - I'm just posting this so folks will know I've seen it.  As you know I did send you the information you requested.  But (this is good news) before I even sent it, the offending account showed fewer than five hubs visible, despite the fact it had shown more than 80 hubs yesterday. The spammy hubs appear to be unpublished now. This is so great - it means Google cannot see those hubs, either.

            Thanks for the work you all are doing to clean up the site. That account needed to be pruned, and you did it. I'm sure that account isn't the only one to have such a dramatic drop in the profile (Hubber) score. It appears your new system picks up on spam and adjusts scores accordingly, and that this triggers a way for you to run the traps on accounts with active content but dramatically low scores. This can only help HP in the long run.

            Well done!

            1. NateB11 profile image91
              NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Cool.

      24. makingamark profile image75
        makingamarkposted 20 months ago

        Can somebody explain to me why it's better to try and make sense of the things HubPages does to try and make sense of whether hubs are any good or not in terms of their own particular interpretation of what Google wants people to do?

        As opposed to just transferring your content to your own website and then finding out for yourself what Google thinks of it? If Google likes it will rank high and if it doesn't then it won't. That's it - plain and simple!

        It's just that what's going on at the moment is so very reminiscent of what went on at Squidoo towards the end - and we all know how that ended.

        1. NateB11 profile image91
          NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Because HP has stood the test of time, might need improvement but still has a decent reputation as far as the search engine goes, still gets traffic and is still a writing platform where money can be earned. HP overcame many search engine algorithm changes that the other sites did not. Plus, it's good to diversify; having your own sites and having some content on HP.

          HP gets rid of spam. Squidoo never did.

          It's nothing like what Squidoo did. Hubscore is mostly relevant to follow and nofollow links, as far as its effect; or maybe some kind of ego boost or deflation; outside of that it could be used as a gauge, maybe, in deciding what you want to do with your Hubs. So, this discussion is hardly relevant to what happened at Squidoo. When they found out they had too much spam at Squidoo,  they did damage control and made a lot of people angry by using drastic measures. That's not what is happening here.

          1. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
            csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            The hubbie score is an ego boost but it is nothing to crow about (for those who got a respectable score). There are many highly  acclaimed writers on the site, who got a beating  yesterday. Many of us were there and  saw the anguish of fellow hubbers whose scores dropped from 10 to 15 points in a span of 24 hours. Despite of what  happened, I will still tweak my hubs regardless of outcome, whether a  high hubbie score or not.

          2. ChristinS profile image94
            ChristinSposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I definitely agree with this.  While I may not agree with everything here (when does everyone agree anyway?) I do have a great deal of respect for HP and their efforts to keep this site going despite the numerous challenges these types of sites have faced in the past few years.  HP has withstood and overcome a lot of it and are willing to make some tough choices and I respect that.

            I try to be patient and roll with the changes for the most part.  If I have an area where I disagree; I state it but try to be respectful about it.  The scoring thing I find to be a bit frustrating because I am the type of person that wants to know "what are the specifics and why?"  I find that not to be the case with the scores so much and I think that is what troubles a lot of hubbers more than the scores themselves.

            That being said, if the scoring is ultimately going to keep HP alive and well (and hopefully restore it to Google's good graces eventually) - good. smile

            I also agree with diversifying content.  I have a few niche sites and blogs and they do very well.  HP is a great way to supplement that though and I never would put all my "eggs in one basket" as the saying goes.  It doesn't make sense to not diversify because we never know what could happen.

            1. sallybea profile image97
              sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              +++

          3. colorfulone profile image88
            colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Well said, Nate.  +

            1. NateB11 profile image91
              NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Thanks, Susie.

          4. Lady Lorelei profile image77
            Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I guess what confuses me is the Google traffic thing. If Google is sending traffic to an article because it does not classify it as spam then why is Hubpages thinking this same article is spam and classifying it as such? That just does not make sense to me. I am sure that Google has considerably more technical workings than Hubpages rating program in determining what is junk and what is not.

            The new system sounds kind of like a popularity contest to me.

        2. paradigm search profile image82
          paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Your post got me to wondering... So I decided to do some calculations.

          Turns out I didn't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out HP's approximate monthly revenue versus expenses. big_smile

          The bad news? Yep, it really would be a good idea for HP to get rid of the author referral program and keep that extra 10% for themselves.

          The good news? If there is a monthly net loss, it is a relatively small one. A simple reduction of expenses will give them a positive cash flow any time they want it. They've done it before and know how to do it again. With everything that HubPages has been doing, I don't see Google suddenly being mean to them. And as long as Google isn't mean to them, the Squidoo scenario isn't plausible.

        3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          MakingAMark:  I have seen situations where websites do well for quite awhile and then get hammered by Google.  It is a matter of them catching up to problem sites or those that have not kept up with the zillions of changes that occur.

          In this instance, it appears the team knows a Google update is coming and is taking steps to avoid a catastrophe.  If you don't do the same with your own sites, you may not get caught this time, but next time you might.

          You also should be aware of the fact that everything we do here is linked to the work of tens of thousands of other writers.  When you are writing on your own site, that is not the case, so your work is viewed differently.

          However, I would caution that there is no guarantee that keeping your own site will help you to avoid problems.  Some do well, some don't.

      25. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        Despite my earlier positive post, I do wish to do one "rant". What in the heck is up with AdSense saying HP's revenue optimization is at 40%!?! I've noticed the thing has been steadily dropping over the past month.

      26. rebekahELLE profile image92
        rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago

        There does seem to be an odd juxtaposition in regard to traffic and scores.  Traffic is now not a major factor in scores and yet traffic is essential for ad revenue.  More of an emphasis on quality and reader engagement makes sense which also helps rid the site of spam and poorly written hubs.  I guess the thinking is better quality writing targets higher quality, targeted audiences. 
        Bottom line the changes have to do with site survival.  If this is what it takes, perhaps HP can once again flourish with higher quality writing. The scoring system will never work perfectly.  In browsing the 'best authors' link, I saw one author with a score of 100 with numerous self-promotional links to her web site in many of her hubs. While the hubs are well-written and probably bring in high levels of traffic, there's obvious self-promotion taking place.
        It will be interesting to see what plays out over the next month or so.  Hopefully HP can climb up in the ranks.

      27. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        Well, I caught up on the posts here.

        As Charlton Heston used to say, I'll give you my HubPages account when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

      28. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        I've got an HOTD with a hubscore of 65. I'm scratching my whiskers over that as we speak.

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          http://s1.hubimg.com/u/12276536.jpg
          Oh BOY, BOY oh BOY oh BOY............

        2. Barbara Kay profile image84
          Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Congratulations! I don't know about that 65 score though.

      29. Jodah profile image86
        Jodahposted 20 months ago

        Ok so the changes are certainly continuing to have an effect, about 1/4 of my 190 hub have suddenly been "un-featured"  due to low traffic. If it was a handful I could do something about it..share on social media etc..but with that number I'll just have to live with it.

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Just revamp them bit by bit.  I shall do the same.  It is a LOT of work but in the end quite worth it.  I am supposed to be asleep by now.

        2. janderson99 profile image83
          janderson99posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Its all part of the unfair punishment dished out by HP. I have 50 to deal with and they keep coming. I now have no time nor inclination to contribute to the forums, hop hubs or offer help on the forums. I am extremely angry about this slap. There were no changes to my hub scores or averages, and yet I have been downgraded from a score which I had for over 12 months. Good Bye Folks! Best Wishes!

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Wish you the very best of luck in your future endeavors. You will be sorely missed.  Many more esteemed hubbers WILL be leaving because of this "change".   Great hubbers are having their overall hubscores severely downgraded which is a blow to their reputation as authors on the site.  People are not going to tolerate this act and will be leaving in droves, then what is HubPages going to do?  Methinks that there is going to be a REVOLUTION among the hubbers-something like a psychic tempest, hmmmm.
            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/12307595.jpg

          2. brakel2 profile image86
            brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hi J  I know what you mean about hubs and the first page of Google, because I used to have them there. Now, many are buried. I don't see a lot of hubs on first page, but some must be there of highest earners. It has become very frustrating. I remember the hubber who was a therapist who became so discouraged, and she may be gone by now. My score had been in the 90s since I first came to the site, but now everything is different. Lowering the scores has defeatured hubs, and that must be the purpose, to get rid of low traffic hubs or see them improved. I don't blame you for being discouraged, because we like to know we are doing a good job, and who is showing us that we are now. Certainly not Google, and these entities are businesses and that is their purpose - to make money. If you leave, good luck in your endeavors, and it has been great knowing you. I might cry, so I will stop.

      30. LongTimeMother profile image98
        LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago

        My hubber score remains about the same level as it was before the new scoring system was introduced. Obviously that means a hubber's score is not penalized for being a) opted out from EC, b) expressing opinions that question HP or c) having relatively low traffic compared to the great-performers-with-expletives on the site.

        I understand a lot of hubbers will be disappointed by their new scores, but I've taken a look around and I am surprised to see I agree with many of the changes I've noticed.

        The biggest shock will probably be for writers who have been given a false sense of 'quality' by copious amounts of positive feedback from other hubbers. That's great from a community sense, but not helpful at all when it comes to actually developing writing skills. Of course some hubbers who get lots of positive feedback are actually very good writers, but not all are.

        It makes perfectly good sense that we should encourage other hubbers and leave positive feedback when we enjoy a good read ... but that's not the same thing as telling someone they're a brilliant writer if in fact they're not. Sometimes a good read is not particularly well written. And, sometimes, people might not actually realize it is not particularly well written.They just enjoy it.

        I will be interested to see what happens with HP in the future. I suspect there's a good chance HP will grow stronger after a bit of house-keeping, and those of us who stay around and get our own rooms in order will likely benefit.

        For my part, I intend to move some of my hubs but not all of them. Some just don't perform well at all here at the moment. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on my score. It will also be interesting to see if adding new hubs (as opposed to deleting some) makes immediate change to a hubber score, as happened in the past.

        When hubbers who can write (in my opinion as a professional writer for over 30 years) throw their hands in the air and decide to bail out based on a disappointing hubber score, it seems such a waste. Often there's likely to be something about their writing that they just 'don't see' as a problem - which in fact it is bound to have negative implications

        If the culture of HP became more open to getting genuine feedback, I would be happy to share my thoughts. Unfortunately, however, many writers have never been exposed to the process of receiving harsh but honest feedback about their writing. Any kind of suggestion for improvement is viewed as an attack of some kind.

        Having had my ego bruised in my early years as a writer, I discovered the importance of cutting the umbilical cord that links a writer with their work ... and how much easier it is if you just stop 'giving birth' in the first place.

        Create a hub - but view it more like a cake you made (that may or may not crumble or collapse) - instead of considering it to be 'a part of you'. With that attitude, it is easier to be critical of your own work ... and to take constructive criticism.

        1. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Very wise comment LTM, and I agree with you. You are fortunate that your score didn't change, a sign of a quality writer I would say. I won't be going anywhere. I have learnt to roll with the punches, or keep getting back up. I read so many hubs that have all encouraging comments when the content is really lacking..especially in creative writing. I know mine isn't perfect either but I really welcome constructive criticism (in comments even) and try to improve my hubs if necessary. We all need to be willing to help each other improve and you can't do that without being honest. It's like contestants on X Factor, Australia's Got Talent etc. whose family and friends tell them they are amazingly talented when in fact they are tone deaf or hopeless and make fools of themselves.

          1. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hi Jodah. Have you also noticed the way people with 'raw talent' or 'not fully developed talent' react to advice they are given? Some have a little dummy-spit and insist they are doing just fine they way they are because 'everybody loves them' and they think they know best. Others are open to advice and suggestions, embrace the changes and have great success.

            Remember how Dami Im went from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvgEyfdIO-o to winner of XFactor Australia in 2013?  She's reaping the rewards of embracing suggested changes and 'giving it a go', despite how uncomfortable they made her feel at the time.

            1. Jodah profile image86
              Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Thanks LTM. I agree entirely. I love Dami Im, great singer and person and her transformation was incredible.

        2. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I agree with your assessment LongTimeMother.  I also appreciate the new transparency which has emerged from staff in relation to Hubber scores even if they appear unwilling to get rid of it.
          Although my score has been reduced slightly, I no longer see this as a negative.  It  is probably a true reflection of where it should be.  I see some positives signs emerging and I do feel encouraged that the site will emerge stronger once all this house-keeping has been done.

          1. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            You have a strong score, sallybea.

            I believe aiming for 100 will simply cause anyone undue stress. I've been 100 in the past but doubt I'll reach it again. And nor should I. Many of the topics I write about here are simply topics I want to write about. They're never going to attract huge amounts of traffic, but that's okay with me.

            I do, however, aim for high quality in everything I write ... as I am sure you do.

            1. sallybea profile image97
              sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I do try to do the best I can.  I can't see any point in doing it any other way. One only has to look at your titles I can  see why you have such a great score.  You cover so many interesting and useful subjects.  Well done!

            2. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
              csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Waah! The changes in hubbie scores have affected a number of highly esteemed writers on this site. I don't fully understand it myself, as I have maintained mine--from 95 to 96; then back  to 95 then 96 again. I plan to edit and update my hubs, to increase traffic and for a better read. How that will affect my score remains to be seen. The decrease in hubbie scores from 3 to 5 points happened to me several months ago when I was not submitting any new hub. That's just what I know about hubbie scores being downgraded.  And probably over-linking, which I avoid like a plague. All the other issues are not that clear to me, yet.

        3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          +1

      31. LongTimeMother profile image98
        LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago

        Hmmm. I would like to help people, but I can see there's a definite risk I'll end up upsetting at least a few hubbers (even if I don't have them in mind as I write.) In the spirit of being community-minded, however, I will share a few thoughts and see if I'm thanked or abused for the gesture.

        Firstly, I'll do what every hubber should attempt to achieve with every hub they write ... and that is, I'll give you some evidence that I can speak with some level of authority on this topic. (If you can't offer some kind of evidence that you actually know what you're writing about, you'll be extremely lucky to attract any search engine traffic.)

        At this moment I have a hubber score of 97 (which may well change when I shuffle my hubs around), and I guess that says HP has confidence in my writing ability. But that doesn't mean much to anyone who lacks confidence in HP scores. So what other evidence can I present to convince you I can effectively write for the internet?

        Does it help if I share with you a test that I often set for myself, just to see if my writing skills are still sharp - and if HP is still an effective place to write? I've completed this self-test quite regularly. Often I remove the hub after the test is complete, but one is still up and I'll use it as an illustration.

        Hubbers often blame HP for their inability to make the first page of google and search engines. They insist that placing their hubs on their own webpages will give (or has given) them a huge boost. I recall one hubber in particular who insisted for ages that she wrote really well and it was HP's fault she wasn't being successful online. She didn't want to hear anyone's advice.

        Well, I can say with a level of authority that it is absolutely possible to reach the first page of google with a hub - even on a 'saturated' topic. Now my self-test hub I'll share with you spent a long time on page one of google in a variety of countries. I haven't bothered trying to keep it on page one, and I only leave it up because I hope the many comments on it might be helpful to someone in need. I think it is currently on page two of google dot com. Take a look and see for yourself if it is still within the first couple of pages.

        Last time I looked there were over 96 million results - so it is certainly a saturated topic. (I deliberately chose the topic because it was so competitive. Like I said, I just do this kind of thing to test myself.)

        Google I hate my dad, (with or without quotation marks). It is always harder to rate without quotation marks, so that's how I check my self-test results.

        Then let me know if you'd like me to share a couple of my personal hints or not.

        1. colorfulone profile image88
          colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          LTM, that would be worthy of starting a whole new thread topic since you are willing to help the HP community with some of your tips.

          I'm sure it would be warmly welcomed by many.

          1. sallybea profile image97
            sallybeaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Warmly welcomed and look forward to reading them.

          2. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hang on a minute. There's no way I'll be starting a thread like that.
            I made the offer because there's familiar faces on this thread who may (or may not) be interested in a few suggestions.

            Most of the participants on this thread are already in the 90s, and are unlikely to need any help from me. But there's a few who might be interested in some feedback.

            For instance, I think it would be a shame for janderson99 to leave when it seems to me there's a couple of 'problems' that could quite easily be fixed to improve both score and hub performance.

            I know gmwilliams works hard to improve her hubs, but I suspect there's something she is completely overlooking when tweaking her hubs.

            I consider this thread to be comparable to having a conversation with a bunch of friends around a dinner table. To start a new thread would be more like hiring an auditorium ... and I'm not interested in that.

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Yikes. Just noticed it is 5am local time. I need to catch a couple of hours sleep before breakfast, so will come back and take a look here when I get a chance tomorrow. (Or should I say 'today'?)

              1. brakel2 profile image86
                brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Longtimemother - I could use some tips on keyword research and/or use of titles if you can share just a little bit without giving away your secrets. Thanks.

                1. colorfulone profile image88
                  colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  @brakel2, Writer Fox has a hub that gets mentioned in the forums because it is helpful to the community. http://writerfox.hubpages.com/hub/SEO-Tutorial-Guide

                  Maybe it will help you and others to mention it again.

                  1. brakel2 profile image86
                    brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    I will look at it again, as it has been a while since I read it. He likes a tool that is too complicated for me, but maybe I should spend time learning it. I used one once that is paid after trial, and I wish I could remember tool's name. It is $19 a month if anyone remembers it. Thanks.

                2. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Hello brake12. Follow colorfulone's link to Writer Fox. I was going to post the same link for you.

                  Or google your specific questions about SEO and see what comes up. There's no getting around the fact that you have to spend time and effort learning about SEO. That doesn't mean you have to spend money ... you'll find lots of free resources on the internet. Good luck.

              2. Barbara Kay profile image84
                Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                LongTimeMother, Why not write a hub about it if you don't want to start a thread? Then we could all benefit and who knows, Hubpages might go back to its glory days.

                1. gmwilliams profile image86
                  gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Hopefully, HubPages will return to its glory days.  HubPages is still a great place to write and associate with the wonderful people here.  God BLESS.

                  1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                    LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    gmwilliams, here's a tip for you. I suggest you get out of the habit of putting words you want to stress in caps.

                    Go to your profile page and look at your hub summaries. There's way too many words in caps. I don't know how often you use them in your hubs, but I strongly suggest that your next 'tweak' on your hubs is to get rid of all those words in capital letters ... especially in your summaries.

                    I'll bet your hubber score improves significantly when you can look at your profile page without seeing extra emphasis on specific words. (You'll just have to trust readers a bit more. They'll figure out what you're saying without out giving them extra hints.)
                    smile

                    1. gmwilliams profile image86
                      gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Thank you, I shall do that.  Thanks for the tips, LTM, greatly appreciate them.

                2. Elsie Hagley profile image80
                  Elsie Hagleyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I think that would be very helpful, looking forward to improving my hubs.

                  Thanks for being a very understanding person LongTimeMother, is nice to have people like you around giving us some of your wisdom and lifting our spirits after a unhappy weekend regarding the knock in our profile scores.

                  Hope you had a peaceful few hours sleep.

                  1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                    LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Hey, you're a kiwi, Elsie! That's great. You have lots to write about that will be 'unique'.

                    I opened one of your hubs and I'll give you some feedback to try and get you on track. Don't be offended, just try and fix the problems ... and then go and look at your other hubs by yourself and try and make similar changes for improvement.

                    I looked at your hub that starts with 'The Keys', and here's what I noticed. Your first sentence has 70 words in it. Any sentence with 70 words is way too long, and it doesn't make a good first impression. Plus you have it in bold, which is not necessary.

                    You have one block of text, and then a bunch of videos and ads. Visit this hub of mine and see if you can restructure your hub using all the hints I gave here.

                    http://longtimemother.hubpages.com/hub/ … d-approval

                    1. gmwilliams profile image86
                      gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Long Time Mother, we elect you as the Hub Adviser.  You give such excellent tips which I will follow.

                    2. Elsie Hagley profile image80
                      Elsie Hagleyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Thankyou for your help!.
                      I will start working on it now.cool

                    3. Elsie Hagley profile image80
                      Elsie Hagleyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Just went and check that hub "The Key" it is one I need to delete.
                      It is a book review.
                      Not happy with it.
                      Do you think it is worth spending time on it?

                      1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                        LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Elsie, you have to decide if you are deleting any hubs - not me. I don't know how that hub scores or whether or not it ever receives any traffic, or what kind of traffic it could potentially attract. Yes, you could delete it if you want. Or you could use it for practice ... just to see how much better you could make that hub. (Have your own kind of 'before' and 'after' comparison.)

                        I think you may find your confidence increases if you actually make changes and can see the positive result.

                        By the way, I just took a look at the hub with the photo of two pairs of undies. (Not mentioning the hub by name, but you'll know which one I mean.) That could be a really good topic. I suggest you get rid of the 8 links you provided, and provide a bit more information instead.

                        It will probably be harder for you to improve because it is much better than the other one, but I think it will be worth the effort. Think about the type of reader who is likely to visit that hub - and ask yourself what they are likely to want to know. Think of some extra capsule titles you could add, to further enhance what you already have. (I'm thinking of the photo of the note, for instance. You could make a capsule title to talk specifically about that.) Under those capsule titles, try and write about how your life has been influenced by the subject. Make it a little 'chatty' in those parts.

                        Then, when you've done all that, go back to the beginning of the hub and give it a really good introduction that will grab my attention and make me want to read your article - because you are obviously an 'authority' on the subject. (Often, just being older helps us be authorities. We live through things and can speak from experience.)

                        Last thing to do ... 'preview' the hub in the mobile phone version, and make sure your photos are in the right order. You might decide to move some (or all) photos below each individual capsule of text instead of above. Sometimes photos are more interesting after we know what the photo is about.

                        Along the way, I trust you'll check your spelling and sentence construction as well.

                        Then ... imagine me giving you the same kind of hints as you revise all your other hubs. One at a time. I'm sure you can develop the skills to edit your own work effectively. Just imagine my voice in your head as you work. 'What would LTM say about this bit?' (I used to do that when I was a young writer, asking myself what my more experienced mentor would have said.)

                        Please try to enjoy the process. Don't look at it as a chore or a burden. This is a chance for you to greatly improve your hubs. Good luck.

                3. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  No time to write a hub about it, Barbara. And no need. So much has already been written by others.

                  All that's required for HP to return to its glory days is for every hubber to understand that they have to 'earn' their place in search results.

            2. janshares profile image88
              jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              LongTimeMother, I'm impressed by your wisdom and would gladly accept any feedback you have for me on my hubs. I have a feeling my biggest problem is I have a lot of poetry hubs which are short and get little traffic. I have a feeling hubberscore in my case is a measure of productivity and not quality. The poetry hubs are not necessarily "useful" or "informative." In any case, I'd love a critique on my subdomain. Since the change in hubberscore, I'm feeling like a 'B' student who could benefit from some improvements.

              1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Hi Jan. I looked at two of your information hubs - both were excellent.

                My tip for you would be to make reference to your experience/professional expertise on topics right at the start. Instead of beginning with a general statement about the topic, introduce yourself as an authority figure on the topic. (Which, of course, you are.)

                The other word I think that might help you is 'focus'. You need to focus on exactly what you are trying to achieve with each specific hub. One that I read seemed to lose its direction a little ... although the writing was still very good.
                smile

                I suspect you may be right about your poetry dropping your score, because your info hubs would merit (in my opinion) a higher score than 90. But that really doesn't matter. Individual hubs can stand alone in the world of google.

                1. janshares profile image88
                  jansharesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Thank you very much, LongTimeMother. Your advice is excellent. It's always been difficult for me to walk the line between being an authority and overly promoting myself. I haven't found that medium yet. I see your point about needing "focus" and streamlining the purpose of an article. I think I tend to float around in my head poetically (which ends up being reflected in my writing) instead of being more direct. I will work on that for my informational articles. Thanks again, appreciate you.

        2. RonElFran profile image98
          RonElFranposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          LTM, I certainly would be very interested in anything you might share. Please do!

          1. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Ron, you make me laugh! You have a score of 100 - quite rightly too, I believe - so you need no help from me.

            I have read quite a few of your hubs in the past, all of them memorable and extremely well crafted. There's nothing wrong with the quality of your writing, Ron. If you'd like to increase your success in search engines, it is simply a matter of studying SEO.

            By the way, I am so pleased you are 100. It is wonderful to see a worthy 100!

            1. RonElFran profile image98
              RonElFranposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Thanks, LTM. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. But I also meant it that I'm open to any suggestions you may have. I know that there are some things our own eyes overlook every time, and that it takes another set of eyes to really see. So if you ever do detect something along those lines, please let me know.

        3. brakel2 profile image86
          brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Hi - I just read this post after my reply to Janderson. You are a good writer, and I would love to hear your tips. Your self test intrigues me, and your ability to analyze what makes a good hub in the midst of billions is fantastic. Thanks for this offer. You made my day!

          1. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I replied to you earlier on the subject of SEO, brake12. In addition to that, I'd make the following two basic suggestions for you after looking at two of your hubs.

            The two hubs I viewed would, I believe, benefit from being made longer. You need to ask yourself 'What kind of questions would people have about this topic?' - and then answer them in your hub.

            You use capsules, which is great. However you need to make sure you also use paragraphs within those capsules. Divide your text into bite-size pieces. If your block of text is too dense, you'll lose readers.

            Good luck.

        4. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I googled "I hate my dad" without the quotation marks LTM, and found your wonderful hub on page two of my search. Now I know what a highly rated (by Google) hub looks like. What a great example. It's sad that there are so many searching for that topic but great for you the writer. Well done. I have learnt a lot.

          1. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
            csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Yep, even if it ranks well in Google,  I don't hate my dad. Probably it is finding your niche, on where you are credible, and looking for the right keywords that people used to search about the subject matter.

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              lol. I guess you didn't look at the hub, csmiravite-blogs. It is not about me hating my dad. smile

          2. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hi Jodah. You've raised another point worth mentioning. When you say that topic is great for me as a writer, I'm guessing you think it makes me money. Well it might make a little, but certainly nothing to get excited about.

            I chose that topic as a challenge from an SEO perspective. 96 million search results is a definite challenge, don't you think? I certainly didn't choose it as a revenue-raising challenge. If I had, I would have failed.

            My hub topics are not a good choice for anyone serious about making money. As I've said before, my writing here on HP is more for my amusement than generating cash. (Although of course HP does generate some cash for me, which is nice ... and I'm not complaining.)

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              P.S. for Jodah. It just occurred to me that you might think 96 million people were searching for that topic. That's not the case. 96 million other people have written about that topic.

              That's why it is such a challenge. lol.  For ages I sat in position #4 on page one. It took less than a month to climb to that spot, which was kind of cool.

              The reason why I shared this experience was to try and encourage other hubbers to stop blaming HP for their search engine ratings. HP won't handicap anyone.

              Yes, there are a few keywords where it would be near-impossible to break into the first page ... but as I have repeatedly demonstrated to myself over the years, the size of the competition is not really a problem.

              (Perhaps you can see why it is taking me so long to get my 'big' project published. I want to be confident I can hit the front page with it - actually many front pages. You'll climb in the search engines faster if your first effort is your best effort ... instead of having to make multiple edits to get a piece into shape. And because my new topic is so important, I really want it to do well.)

              1. Susana S profile image92
                Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                That kind of keyphrase is absolutely perfect for an article on a site like HubPages because there aren't any topic related authority sites to compete against.

                That's a massively more important factor to consider than number of search results in my experience.

                1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Yes, Susana. That's true. I think way too many hubbers are unnecessarily afraid of the 'size' of their competition. The vast majority of hub topics could conceivably feature well in search engine results. I do hope more hubbers will strive to learn about SEO.

      32. paradigm search profile image82
        paradigm searchposted 20 months ago

        Well, I deleted one of my slacker hubs (hubscore 65) on my other account. Be interesting to see what the Hubber score does when the hub disappears tomorrow.

        I, too, would avidly follow the mentioned new LTM thread. smile

        1. LongTimeMother profile image98
          LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Hello ps. Don't hold your breath waiting for a new thread from me. I'm consumed by the task of figuring out how to properly address another topic of far greater significance.

          In fact I shouldn't have allowed myself to get distracted. That's it. Back to work now!

          Before I go, I'm making a note here that your score is currently 82. I don't want to forget what it was when I come back and check tomorrow. It will be interesting to see the result.

      33. Gek Aka profile image60
        Gek Akaposted 20 months ago

        Wow what good news , I have to improve all my hubs to get higher score

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          It was NICE to meet hubbers I haven't met before.

        2. LongTimeMother profile image98
          LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Welcome to HP, Gek Aka. I see you've been here for six weeks and are already producing hubs. I wish you every success. smile

      34. WriteAngled profile image92
        WriteAngledposted 20 months ago

        Google efficient, educational, etc? Don't make me laugh! Google is fine if you are looking to buy something or want some dumbed-down information about a popular topic or a quick answer to a simple question, but for real information it is abysmal.

        I frequently find myself trawling through 10, 20, 30 or more screens of Google search results to find the authoritative, quality information I need for my medical translation work. Google likes to put its favourites at the top, first the paying advertisers, then the fodder for the masses, above all the non-authoritative Wikipedia (non-authoritative because any fool can go in there and change what is written on a given topic).

        Oh, in case you think I am incompetent at searching, I do know how to formulate search expressions, by the way. I have a postgraduate diploma in library and information studies which involved studying the art of searching for information, and I also have a degree + doctorate in biomedicine, which enables me to assess the quality of what I retrieve in my subject area. I regret the good old days of honest search engines such as AltaVista, which in the mid-late 1990s gave infinitely superior results to the pap served up today by Google and Bing.

        1. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I totally concur WriteAngled. I used to work in a University library and yes search engines we used for research in those days (like AltaVista) were far superior.

          1. Paul Maplesden profile image91
            Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I don't think it is that the search engines have gotten worse, it's that the signal to noise ratio of decent to rubbish content has now vastly skewed in favor of the rubbish. There's just so much information out there, finding decent, high-quality content is like panning for gold in a river of mud!

        2. Chriswillman90 profile image92
          Chriswillman90posted 20 months ago

          I noticed a lot of hubbers get far too obsessed with hub scores and what not, but traffic is very SEO driven and isn't always correlated with quality either.

          I've read countless articles on the web that get a lot of attention yet the articles themselves look mediocre and are of far lesser quality than many of the hubs I've read on here.

          Personally I'm satisfied with my scores at this early venture (mostly 70s and 80s) though I'm still going to work on them over time. I know most people on here have a passion for writing, but let's face it traffic is a must for most.

          I'm glad there's less traffic emphasis with the hub score because they are two completely different avenues. Both of them matter to us but one clearly matters even more.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image98
            Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            It's not that I care about the hub score. I just see so many poorly written hubs, and they seem to pass. I can't understand it. When people who have specialized knowledge about a subject, that should be better than taking pictures of your ten cats. It's not a photography site.

            I am just tired of changing the same hubs all the time. And I guess HP is so desperate to hang on, they will try anything, no matter how stupid.

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Jean, I really enjoy the way you write!

              I haven't read all of your hubs, but I've read quite a few. I think your knowledge is awesome.

              I guess the main thing I'd suggest for you (and I know you won't object to me suggesting it, because we're friends) is to create more paragraphs within your capsules. That would make them 'easier to read' and presumably raise their score and hopefully their performance in the search engines.

              You know you can always email me if you have one or two you'd specifically like feedback about. smile

              1. Jean Bakula profile image98
                Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Thanks Long Time Mother,
                  Of course I appreciate the advice of a friend, and do realize that my hubs get wordy. As I go through them, I am trying to make smaller paragraphs.

                It's hard, because when I first came, I often wrote all the information in one text capsule. I fixed a lot of them, but a few "oldies" are hanging around.

                I know often when people come to the forums to vent, they are treated like idiots from a certain few, and referred to the TOS for advice. But many of us were so happy to find a place to write when we came here, we didn't go over the TOS word by word. And now it changes so much, if you don't look for a few weeks, everything changes.

                I tried making pictures larger, since that's what they want, it does look nice for people reading off their smartphones. I checked a few of my own. But if people are reading off phones, they aren't reading hubs, they are reading texts from friends. And on tablets it's pretty much the same.

                Plus then you get the message your images are blurry anyway. I'm not changing all my images now.
                I've moved some of my better stuff, and will keep what I have here. I read that "lack of engagement" doesn't matter now, but had a half circle on a hub just yesterday. So the admin isn't even up on their own rules.

                1. colorfulone profile image88
                  colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  TOS or TOU has not been updated since November 18, 2011.

                  "I read that "lack of engagement" doesn't matter now, but had a half circle on a hub just yesterday. So the admin isn't even up on their own rules."

                  Where did you read that? 
                  Please provide a link so we can read that too. smile

                  1. Barbara Kay profile image84
                    Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Traffic doesn't matter when it comes to hubscores, but low traffic can still cause your hub to get the half circle for "lack of engagement."  I hope this clarifies it a bit.

                    1. brakel2 profile image86
                      brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      I wish lack of engagement was explained more by Staff. Someone said readers can complete a survey, and that might be the answer. Maybe it really doesn't matter, anyway. It is just a general statement that could mean anything Staff wants it to be.

                  2. Jean Bakula profile image98
                    Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Hello colorfulone,
                    Sorry I didn't see your comment sooner. Here's where I saw what I interpreted as the administration saying "lack of engagement" didn't matter any more:
                    http://blog.hubpages.com/2015/02/26/an- … -hubscore/
                    It's at the end of the first paragraph, and talks about "the quality of the hub, and not the traffic it receives." I hope that helps.

                    1. colorfulone profile image88
                      colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Hi Jean, smile
                      Okey, I see it and understand now.  -- "These days, we want HubScore to be mostly a reflection of the quality of a Hub and not the amount of traffic it receives."

                      What Barbara Kay said above is correct.

                      Traffic used to be a big part of what hubscores reflected, but hubs can still be defeatured for lack of traffic. More correctly the lack of any search engine traffic, even though a hub may get traffic from other sources, (social sharing sites, blogs, etc.)

                      That was a big change for hubscores, but the TOS did not change.

                      Thank you!

                    2. Susana S profile image92
                      Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      Engagement is not the same as traffic.

                      The blog post tells us that the engagement factor has been emphasised in the new hubscore algorithm and engagement is how a reader interacts with your page.

                      E.g.

                      How long do they stay on the page?
                      Do they click the back button and if so, how quickly?
                      Do they click through on a link (which would indicate that the link was useful)?

                      1. Jean Bakula profile image98
                        Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Hi Susana S,
                        I wasn't sure how to interpret that post in the TOS, so thanks for your take on it. I do believe the administration muddies the waters a lot with these terms though. They could make them a lot clearer. Also, there are people writing on here that have varying technology skills, and I believe the TOS doesn't help the ones with less computer abilities that much.

                        Although I don't think the site's job is to teach technology, I do believe they make it hard for people, unless they have above average computer savvy. I've had blogs of my own, and still can't figure out things on here. Plus if you are away a few weeks, which I often am, in disgust with the whole site, you miss out on changes. It's natural to want to check your own writings, and not want to spend all your time reading the latest changes on the TOS. I always come back to all kinds of warnings about things I must change yet again, and that takes hours of my time.

                        1. Susana S profile image92
                          Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          You're welcome smile

                          I agree. Hubpages seems to forget that most writers here aren't fluent in SEO jargon and it would be helpful to many if they took that into account when explaining things. There should be an easier way to catch up with important changes too. Forum posts are easily missed, as are weeks old blog posts. I think it would be easy enough to have a statement and link on the My Account page directing people to the relevant information.

            2. kblover profile image92
              kbloverposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Yeah, I never understand what goes into the scores, hub or "overall".

              They just fluctuate randomly (why?) and don't seem to have any meaning whatsoever.

              Okay, I'm a 95. So what? Seriously - what is this doing for me?

              1. paradigm search profile image82
                paradigm searchposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                It means HP loves you and is scattering your hubs all over Related Hubs lists everywhere.

        3. Sed-me profile image83
          Sed-meposted 20 months ago

          So good to see you again Luis. Hope you're doing well.

        4. Solaras profile image92
          Solarasposted 20 months ago

          I am sure this has been suggested over the years ad nauseam, but I will throw it out there again. We can keep the hubber scores on our profile page, to know that we need improvement, just remove it from our avatars. 

          It appears like a scarlet letter or mark of Cain.  I am not sure what non hubpages readers must make of this.  "Are these students earning grades for their reports that were posted online???"

          It's just not done on other sites with multiple authors.  We should look like we are authorities, not students who have earned imperfect grades on our papers.

          1. rebekahELLE profile image92
            rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I agree completely. They serve no beneficial purpose on our profiles. To assume that those with higher scores are better writers is simply not true and that's what it now appears to imply. Keep them on our account page with our hub scores.

          2. NateB11 profile image91
            NateB11posted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Totally agree.

          3. Barbara Kay profile image84
            Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I agree also.

          4. Alternative Prime profile image85
            Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Not only is the “Hubber Score” a useless, arbitrarily assigned number, but it severely De-Values the site in the aggregate and its entirety ~

            HP Staff needs to get to the root of “Poor Quality” issues, and unfortunately, this is definitely not a solution ~

            It's the equivalent of a news blog that has a total of 100 reporters but only 1 is worth reading according to the editor ~

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Hello Alternative Prime. I don't think we've crossed paths in the past, so I went to your profile page to learn more about you. (I think that's useful when engaging in conversation with someone new.)

              My visit has left me somewhat puzzled. You say you've taught 'advanced writing techniques' (among other things), and yet you seem to have a penchant for being verbose - and using inappropriate capital letters.

              Surprised, I counted the words in one sentence ... over 120. Another ... over 150. I didn't bother counting any more.

              So I visited one of your hubs and was greeted with a block of text with over 100 words in the opening sentence.

              So now I'm wondering just what you meant when you said, 'You’re talking to a successful, authoritative ”Expert Writer” right here Nate'. I was under the impression you considered yourself an expert writer for the internet, but perhaps you were referring to a specific field of writing.

              When you insisted earlier in this thread, 'You cannot use “Traditional SEO“, a term which is excessively subjective to say the least, Exemplary Writing Ability, nor Depth of Knowledge to overcome, re-emerge, and rise above, it just doesn’t work within the HP domain', what were you meaning exactly? The HP account linked to your username certainly doesn't follow the best writing techniques associated with attracting search engine traffic - which surprises me, because many of your hub titles should potentially draw a lot of traffic from search engines.

              Of course I couldn't see how many hits you've had on your hubs because, as you explained on your profile page, you chose to conceal your 'showcase full of illustrious platinum plated awards' - a very creative way of describing your HP accolades and badges. There's no doubt you're very creative, Alternative Prime ... but I would encourage hubbers to view your style of writing before accepting the conclusions you've highlighted in this thread.

              Is your conclusion perhaps drawn from a different HP account where you write in a different style? If not, I suggest you try shortening your sentences, getting rid of the incorrect use of capital letters, and seeing what kind of result you get.

              Nice to meet you. cool

              1. Jodah profile image86
                Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I went to check AT's profile as well and got half way through, then one of his hubs...same thing. Just too wordy and too heavy going for me I'm afraid.

                1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Lots of things about HP and the scoring system annoy me, Jodah, and I think we have a right to voice our frustrations.

                  It doesn't help, however, when people offer unjustified criticism. All AP could possibly hope to achieve on this thread is to shake the confidence of hubbers who don't go to the trouble of looking at his writing before accepting him as any kind of authority.

                  Mind you, I have to wonder how many hubbers actually went to the trouble of looking at those ghastly hubs we were offered as examples for effectively editing our work. lol.

                  Have you noticed how many Aussies appear in threads that challenge authority?? I don't know what percentage of hubbers are Australian, but there's lots of us on the forums. wink

                  I miss Wry Lilt. The thread Jayne provided reminded me just how much I miss her!

                  1. Jodah profile image86
                    Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Wry Lilt is a very competent and knowledgeable writer (Aussie too).. very busy elsewhere I would say. Maybe we are just opinionated LTM , or like to challenge authority. I love this place truly, but using those particular hubs as examples of excellence was disturbing. You wonder how many just write to complain and believe everything they read though without checking things.

                2. Alternative Prime profile image85
                  Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Be Afraid ~ Be Very Afraid Jodah ~ smile

                  1. Jodah profile image86
                    Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Deleted

                    1. Alternative Prime profile image85
                      Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      I laughed so hard when U said “I Was AFRAID”!! ~ I mean geesh,  am I that frightening??? “ Please enter My SCARY World of DEMONS & WITCHES & WARLOCKS & BIGFOOTS & LIVING DEAD LITERATURE ~

                      Believe me, I don’t have Big Sharp Dracula Fangs, Chupacabbra Claws, or a Frankenstein Face, or even a Lizard Demon Personality ~ I’m just Charles Dickens, or maybe that was Slim Pickens reincarnate ~ I forget which ~

                      But wait a minute, now that I think of it, maybe I missed my calling ~ J ~ Mountain Monsters, you Wacky Drunken’ Hillbilly Helmet Heads, Here I Come!! ~

                      1. Jodah profile image86
                        Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Hmm wonder why my comment was deleted weird....I am interested in and have written hubs about mythical creatures and monsters and cryptozoology AP..so you don't really scare me, though a "wacky drunken hillbilly helmet head sounds rather" formidable.

                        1. Leptirela profile image71
                          Leptirelaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          Hahhaha Jodah smile

                          Vote up

                        2. Alternative Prime profile image85
                          Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          Yup, a “Wacky Drunken Hillbilly Helmet Head” is really one of the only entities that creeps me out & frightens me a bit as well Jodah ~

                          Hunting Illiterate Bigfoots with personal hygiene problems in Texas or Georgia, Chasing Chupacabras,  Meddling in Mothman’s Territory, but they’re especially chilling at the American VOTING Booth ~

                3. Leptirela profile image71
                  Leptirelaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Also thank you, to those who see this ~EXPERT/TEACHER~ as I do. First I spent absolute ages on one of his hubs and understood nothing - Please have a read below his hubs to witness some, rather insulting comments as a reply to mine.

                  I also think this person is "too wordy" and thinks that is the language we all need to use to get across urm , NO.

                  I was taught by some professionals in the past and the message has always been clear "use language everyone understands" . So am Afraid A P or whatever no offence intended but I think your vocabulary needs refreshing a tad. This is a writers world and I have been here way before you and let me tell you something my "nonsense writing poetry" and silly hubs have had more attention and engagement than any of your hubs clever sir.
                  I have found some very talented people across HP and your attitude is only making it clearer that you look down upon us. With all due respect and whatever your expertise , perhaps you should.engage with intellectuals on your own level because we are not "quality" enough for you. I have felt hurt by most your comments bringing people down degrading and discouraging them. I am sorry to say I dont like that in people.

              2. Jayne Lancer profile image91
                Jayne Lancerposted 20 months ago in reply to this
                1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Having read that thread now, I can see AP's had two years to discover the value of using capsules - but apparently hasn't.

                  So let me add that to my suggestions, AP. Capsules are very useful for separating text.

                  Also, '-' does not end a sentence correctly.

                  It was very enlightening, however, to see that you are an active participant in good projects for your community. I commend you for that.

                2. Jodah profile image86
                  Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Wow, just read that thread...no need to say anything. Obviously nothing has changed in two years.

                3. Paul Maplesden profile image91
                  Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Thanks so much for posting that Jayne, it kept me entertained (and prevented me from having to do any real work) for the last hour or so. Just amazing - The responses are priceless.

              3. Alternative Prime profile image85
                Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Hi LongTimeMother,

                Here we go,~ I’ve been attacked by individuals such as yourself every time I wander in and speak the truth, so your response is really no surprise and believe me, my work here at Hubpages is no true indication of my critical commercial successes outside this arena so your envious tone is taken for what it truly is ~

                Honestly, I really don‘t have much time for the banter due to other projects pending however, “FYI”, HP has and apparently still is, tagged as a “Content Farm”, which is not the best of news and the “Sky Did Fall” in the past, which means regardless of talent, or skill level, or authoritative prowess, articles released and submitted by HP are automatically suppressed within the circulation process. That was a fact and perhaps still is, I really lost track a while back subsequent to my decision to terminate hub participation permanently, or, at least until things around here improved for the CONTRIBUTORS ~ I come in here mainly as a hobby now, just to check in and observe and truly hope things have recovered a bit ~

                During my past participation and even in the present, I see the “SEOBS Circus” preparing for another tour and it goes something like this ~

                So called “Authoritative Hubbers” who are either clueless or just “Throwing Junk Out There“ start off something like this ~“If You Would Like To Improve Your Hub Visibility Do This“ ~

                Add more images, no wait, delete a few images, no wait, your hub is way too long, or maybe not long enough, or maybe you should re-arrange the sales capsules, put more emphasis on this or that, try standing on your head with a mug of frothy cold Sam Adams at your lips, stand up, twist your hips, put your arms like this and say MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC three or four times, the phrasing or wording is way too complicated try “Dumbing it Down”~

                Usually a BIG waste of precious time as new members and even a few seasoned pros give it a try only to end up with a hub construction worse than before ~ If HP had the magic solution they would have shared it by now, and if a Hubber claims to have the magic solution specific to HP’s dilemma I’m sure HP staff would have offered Him/Her a healthy premium to acquire it ~ And so it goes………..Here I go again trying to save everyone from the “3 Ring”……Best of Luck……P.S.~ I’ve used the same name since joining years ago, but for some reason I feel we’ve already met in the past, perhaps you were in a different “Attackers” guise? ?~ P.S. Again, if I had the time, I could offer you some splendid Advice & Tips on how to become a success OUTSIDE the HP domain ~ LOVE Always -A.P.-

                1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                  LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, AP. I've not yet seen the place where you ' wander in and speak the truth'.

                  I'll keep an eye out for any links you care to provide, in the hope you'll offer some evidence of your success. What should we google to see examples of your 'critical commercial successes outside this arena'?

                  I remain unconvinced that ending sentences with '-' and ignoring other norms of punctuation and sentence structure will result in commercial successes for any writer. Perhaps you'd like to prove me wrong.

                  1. Alternative Prime profile image85
                    Alternative Primeposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    And you are Self-Proclaiming Literary Authoritativeness? Superiority? I would surmise you are a much better mom than writing expert ~ And that truly is an invaluable attribute ~

                    I really don’t have the discretionary time right now to acquire a treasure map and purchase a heavy duty Pick & Shovel to go dig up “Buried Links” and present them as evidence of my integrity, nor do I care to expend the necessary energy to do so ~ This is a chat forum LTM, which means you are free to believe what you choose to believe ~ That’s your prerogative ~ My life outside of HP is pretty Fulfilling & Joyful, I like the way it’s going ~

                    Just remember, the truth is sometimes painful but usually worth hearing ~

                    Let’s see now…..”Buried Links” ….Not a bad title for a screenplay ~

                    1. Jean Bakula profile image98
                      Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      So it seems like the same thing is happening across the board? People are experiencing dropping hubber scores of as much as 10 points, and having quite a few hubs not featured, which were always featured before?

                      My hubber score hasn't been this low since I came here 4 years ago and was writing to build up a body of hubs. I have put just one Amazon capsule on most of them, and you know how it comes up so you can put 2 items on it? I've been told that's not allowed either, it's spammy. I've said before I usually end up writing quite long hubs, I don't start with that intention, but it happens.

                      I have taken off most links to other hubs, and left maybe one or two. I try to keep up with the changes, but don't even come on here each day anymore, it's a big time waster. Are we allowed to direct readers to a different hub we wrote if it relates to the one they just read, I mean, skimmed?

                      Also, we all have pieces we worked extra hard on and know they are better than some of our others. Right now, the group that I think show my best writing are not featured. I made changes on them last night, to force that they be looked at again, but am not sure if that was a good idea or not. But it was when I was excited about writing here and feeling confident, and I think they really are examples of my best writing. I guess I'll be finding out. It's a shame they are not featured, though I know they can be found on the first page of Google in some cases.

                      1. Jean Bakula profile image98
                        Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        I did this last night, and just got the "Friendly Tips for Getting Your Hubs Featured!" email for the 12 hubs that were already featured for years, and suddenly were not. I followed all the rules, unless they changed in 24 hours.

                    2. LongTimeMother profile image98
                      LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      You'd better be quick and write that screeenplay AP, before someone steals your great idea.

                      Let me know when it is time to google for the reviews.  wink

                      1. Leptirela profile image71
                        Leptirelaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        LTM +11111 big_smile
                        You say it how it is.

                        1. Jean Bakula profile image98
                          Jean Bakulaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          I agree that since we are encouraged to write Evergreen hubs, new information usually doesn't come up about them, if it's a topic that has a set of rules or just IS a certain way, it's staying that way. I am so sick of updating and changing the same hubs, my creative energy is out the window.

                          I think the admin just has to admit the days of making money on writing sites is over.

                          I just write for love of writing anyway, but the little bit of extra cash was nice. You never get much traffic on a site of your own, unless you get more than 5,000 visitors a day. And I don't even know how to monetize it now, nobody clicks on ads or those Google banners. I wasted so many hours on all this I have carpal tunnel in both hands.

                          I used to go on the Hopper just to read the interesting hubs others wrote, and found good writers. Now it makes you feel like an English teacher, the sliders make it hard to decide how to grade it, and you can't see who wrote the piece, I used to comment on a good hub right as I saw it on the hopper, many of us did. I would be willing to do my share on the Hopper if it was back to the old way.

          5. Organised Kaos profile image96
            Organised Kaosposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Hubber scores are just another form of a label really, no benefit to them.

            1. LongTimeMother profile image98
              LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Hi Organised Kaos. Your hubber score is a pretty good label. You obviously deserve it. A million views in just two years is very impressive!

              I contributed one view, for what it's worth. I still haven't made it to Tasmania ... but when I do, I'll be reading your hub again. smile

        5. peeples profile image89
          peeplesposted 20 months ago

          Had 3 hubs get unfeatured during this mess. I fixed them, put some time and effort into updating them, and instead of hubber score going up it went down more than it did when this started a few days ago. It says here that how readers consume and interact with my articles is relevant, but I guess over 300 comments on one hub and several with over 50 doesn't count as interaction enough.
          By all of the reading I have done on HP it seems I make more on average (though not a lot) than the majority of hubbers. I guess that has nothing to do with hubber score either.
          I don't have "spammy elements", because at most I do one amazon capsule with only one article as an exception.
          My amount of views went up between the day this started (5 days ago) and this morning, yet my score dropped even more between yesterday and today.
          4 years here and I still don't seem to understand the hubber score no matter how many times it is discussed.

          1. ChristinS profile image94
            ChristinSposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            I've been here 3 & 1/2 and I don't understand it either.  Recently they posted they were making changes to the scoring.  I have to tell you, I don't get it either.  I fixed the ones of mine that became unfeatured and had a drop.  I'm hoping after a few days it comes back up.  Most of my hubs have comments, polls or whatever to promote engagement. 

            I'm going to keep updating them as I have time, but I am frankly so tired of the guessing game portion of it all, that I am just not going to make it an urgent emergency or anything.  When I get to it, I'll do it.

            I really hope the day comes when HP Staff is more forthcoming about exactly what they expect.  Ambiguous answers obviously are leading to a lot of similar results and too much guessing and revamping.  I like clarity - that's how stuff gets done properly.

            1. Gek Aka profile image60
              Gek Akaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              You are right my dear, you need to understand what you are doing to get it done properly

            2. peeples profile image89
              peeplesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I agree. I am tired of the guessing game. As long as my income from HP keeps climbing I am going to pay as little attention to the hubber score as possible. That doesn't make it any less annoying, but it helps me rationalize not making a big deal over it. smile

              1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                You have a lot to say, and a great way of saying it. I hope you keep writing forever, peeples!!

                Email me links if you ever need a hand. I don't fully understand how HP works, but I'll help you if I can. I enjoy a good guessing game. lol.

                1. peeples profile image89
                  peeplesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Always kind LTM!! I'm not going any where I'd miss you guys too much. Well some of you at least! big_smile

            3. CatherineGiordano profile image93
              CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              It just breaks my heart to watch the hub score of my hub "The Billboard Wars" go down and down.  It is now at 61. A few months ago it was in the 90's. (It might even have been at 100 at one time; I'm not sure.) It has good traffic compared to my other hubs. It has more people taking the poll than on my other hubs.  It has good sharp photos--full width with captions and attributions--and the right amount of text. No spelling or grammar mistakes. Only one amazon capsule and  the title of the book is the same as the title of the hub. It has a video. I can't think of one single thing that should be "fixed."  Any suggestions?

              1. ChristinS profile image94
                ChristinSposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I really like your hub and find the subject matter interesting.  A few things - your photo's are attributed, but there are no links back to the original sources in those attributions.  I don't know for sure, but that might possibly impact the score.

                Your subtitles could use some tweaking and there are a lot of them, some repetitive. For Example you have a very short capsule "Beware of Dogma" then immediately below that the image also subtitled "Beware of Dogma" both subtitles are not needed in that close of a proximity.

                Some of your subtitles don't really offer indications what the content below them is about.  Subtitles should have good keywords or phrasing so for example instead of saying " a religious group responds with a low blow".  Say more specifically who responded in the subtitle "In retaliation, Xandsuch Church Posts Billboard Offensive to Atheists" or something along those lines.  This helps with the "SEO" of a hub and may help improve the scores. 

                If I'm searching for billboards churches have posted; I will be searching for church names or "billboards offensive to atheists" etc.  Think what people are actually searching for and it will help.

                While several capsules are always a great idea - you have a lot of them.  Some of your capsules only have a sentence or two.  Is there a way to make that more cohesive and easier for people to follow? It's a bit "choppy" in appearance, though the substance is great. 

                I know it sucks to see the scores go down, but you know what? At the end of the day if the hub is getting awesome traffic; don't worry about it.

                Also, since it is a hot button issue kind of a hub - people may be voting it down, which I suspect may also cause scores to drop.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I doubt if attribution links are the problem because when I use Pixabay and Morguefile, I never use a link because it is not required, and when I use several Wikipedia Commons photos, I use one link for all of them at the bottom of the page.  I have never had a problem.

                2. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                  CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Thanks, Christin S:  I will make changes in titles as you suggested.

                  I never thought about the possibility that people who don't like my views would vote it down.  No way to know and nothing I can do about it.  Except my other hubs on similar topics are not having problems--they have high hub scores.

              2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Catherine:

                It is obvious that you did a great deal of research and worked very hard on the billboard article, but upon reading it, I do see a problem with the way you are doing your attributions.  In your case, you must show the complete source and link to it.  This of course will lead to another problem, which is that you can only have two links to one outside website.  So, you can either, use fewer photos (2 per site) or group your attribution at the bottom of your page. 

                Another problem is that you have too many outgoing links, especially those at the bottom of your article.

                The truth is that you can make your point with far fewer photos, perhaps the ones that have led to conflict between groups?

                It's a good article, just needs a little polishing...and by the way, every time you link to an outside site, your article loses some of its link juice, which means it ranks lower with Google.  This can affect your views!

                1. Susana S profile image92
                  Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  This statement is a bit inaccurate.

                  Google likes helpful, relevant outgoing links and is likely to rank articles containing them higher than those that don't, just don't have too many. I'd recommend 1 per 200 words as a good upper limit.

                  Regarding link juice, or in other words, how page rank will flow from your page to others...You might want to consider how it could be shared when you're linking out to your own sites or other pages on your HP subdomain, but otherwise linking naturally is not something to be concerned about.

                  1. rebekahELLE profile image92
                    rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      I was about to comment in regard to that statement and saw that you already addressed it.  That's the thing about forums, sometimes advice is not accurate.  With informational articles, I would expect to see quality, outgoing links, especially to authoritative sites.
                    Google's quality rating guidelines look for value of internal and external links.  Supplemental resources can be helpful in ranking.

                    1. Susana S profile image92
                      Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      There is a lot of inaccurate info given out on this forum for sure, and it's frustrating to see it all the time. Problem is it would be a full-time job correcting it all!

                      1. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
                        csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Yep, and we can't afford that. We have to earn a living, so we just  do what we can do.

                    2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                      TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      I was speaking only of image links, not text links.

                      1. rebekahELLE profile image92
                        rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        In the context of your entire post, it is not clear that you're only speaking of photo links.  Both Susana and myself, and I'm sure others interpreted it as meaning 'any outgoing links'. And that statement would not be accurate. 
                        I know that it's easy to be misunderstood in the forums or we don't clarify exactly what we mean.  Unfortunately it can confuse others and cause frustration.  It's good that you came back to clarify your statement.  As far as what Writer Fox said in regard to photo links, I don't know.

                        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          Well, sorry I didn't express my exact thoughts on this.  One thing I do know is that Writer Fox is extremely knowledgeable about such things, so when he speaks, I listen.  I have never seen him give incorrect advice, and I try very hard not to do so, either because I know how important it is to give people the straight story.

                    3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                      TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      BTW  The info about link juice came directly from Writer Fox awhile back, and if you can find his statements about it, you will see what I am talking about.  For example, he stated why would you link continually to images from Wikimedia when a referral to one link at the bottom of a post would do the same job and not share so much link juice.

                      There is no error here, you misunderstood what I was saying or I did not clarify.

                      Yes, Google does want you linking to credible sites, but HP only wants this done at the rate of two each per hub.  There must be a reason for this limit, don't you think?

                      1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                        Marisa Wrightposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Some time ago, they made the image links "no follow" (as Writer Fox had requested for ages!), so you don't have to worry about them passing link juice any more.

                        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          That is really good to know.  So, in a way, I was right about at least that part of what I said.  How do I miss these announcements?  I do look at the blogs regularly, but somehow do not get all of the info.  What's the secret?  I had no idea, when I wrote that part of my post, that things had changed.

                      2. Writer Fox profile image81
                        Writer Foxposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                        Hi TimeTraveler2:  I remember that forum post.  It was from 10 months ago.  Since that time, HP has made all of the links in photo capsules "NoFollow", so the problem about distributing link juice was solved, because NoFollow links don't flow PageRank.

                        That said, you still don't want to link, even with a NoFollow, to things unrelated to the subject of your Hubs.  This is one reason, and rightly so, that HP harps on only using highly relevant products on a Hub.

                        So, this still applies to unrelated pages on Wiki.  If the image attribution only requires a link to the cc license, then you can give one NoFollow link in a text capsule at the bottom of the page and just put Wikipedia* with each image as an image source.

                        Each image from Wikipedia must be checked for the required attribution, because the requirements are not the same for each image.  You do that by clicking on this icon on the Wiki page:

                        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/12337132.png

                        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                          Can't you also find that when you scroll down to the bottom of  the image page in Wikimedia Commons?  That's what I have been doing.

                2. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                  CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  This is news to me. I want to tear my hair out with all the conflicting info.  Thanks so much for helping me out.  I want to keep the photos, but I will follow you advice on attributions for the photos and see if that helps.

                  I will make fixes one at a time so I can see what works and what doesn't.

                  As for links, I thought linking to authoritative sites was a good thing.  Each of those groups are important.
                  What about in my hubs with pixabay photos?  I use3 to 5 photos from pixabay and I put in the link to the page where I got it so there are a lot of pixabay links.

                  And while I'm at it, I usually modify pixabay photos, but feel guilty unless I credit the original artist since the picture is 90% his.  So I have been using this attribution: [Catherine Giordano (via Pixabay, modified)[  since pixabay doesn't require attribution, I could just eliminate the attribution.

                  1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                    TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Hi Catherine:

                    For Pixabay and Morguefile, I simply write Pixabay or Morguefile on the first line and do not link to their site because neither requires this and I do not want to lose the link juice.

                    The others you can group to save yourself some problems.  For example, if I have several photos from the same source, I caption the photo and then write the source on the second line  like this

                    Source: Pechanga RV Resort Casino, via *wikimedia commons.

                    Then at the bottom of the post I write
                    *photo credit: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/

                    This way I only have one link even though I may have several photos from the same source.

                    Try keeping those links at the bottom of your page if you like to see what happens, but I think they may be part of your problem, especially if some of them relate to the photo links, which I think at least one of them does.  This would exceed your 2 per hub from the same source limit.

                  2. colorfulone profile image88
                    colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    Pixaboy has public domain images so they do not need to be attributed.

                  3. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                    CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    I made some fixes as suggeste and hub score has gone up 5 points since about 6 hours ago.  It was suggested that the short capsules made the text choppy. That was deliberate. I wanted to give a sense of things happening fast,. one after the other,, but I combined a couple of capsules to reduce choppiness. I did a little work on titles too. 

                    This hub had no links to photos since all the photos were given to me and were not taken off of a webpage. Tomorrow I'm going to start a discussion about photo attributions. I really have a lot of questions. People do it all different ways, and I'd like to see if I can get a consensus.

                    1. Susana S profile image92
                      Susana Sposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                      I've just had a look at the hub and in my view the main issues are the first paragraph and summary. (The rest of it is really interesting!)

                      They need to tell the reader exactly what they're going to find out in the hub and why they should stay and read.

                      If these 2 elements are weak your hub will fall down on engagement and HP has told us engagement is now the biggest factor in hubscores. The summary is incredibly important because few will click through to read if the summary is not descriptive or enticing enough.

                      Then, when readers do click through if the first paragraph doesn't grab them, they'll click back straight away.

                      That's the biggest engagement killer there is and one we all have to work hard to avoid - both for google traffic and for hubscores.

                3. CatherineGiordano profile image93
                  CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  I just went to check my attributions for the Billboard hub.  I did not use links.  All the photos were given to me by the Coalition for Reason so there were no links.  I just credited them for the photos with a "courtesy of" citation. So attribution is not the answer.

          2. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
            csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            The HP team came up with an article about  hub scores and how it is determined. I have read about it a few times in this last one week. The HP group have posted it several times as there were many hubbers who questioned about the hubbie scores, Please read around the forums this last one week, as this issue was explained succinctly on several threads.

            1. peeples profile image89
              peeplesposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              I have been reading these things for 4 years and when I follow their advice, my scores drop. When I don't follow their advice I usually see an increase in both scores and financially.
              It use to be they said the more active you were here the higher your score would be. Funny enough, when I leave HP for a few weeks my score goes up. Yet when I come back and begin posting in Q and A along with the forum, my score dropped.
              I would start believing what they post if it showed effective in my income. However quite the opposite seems to happen.

              1. Jodah profile image86
                Jodahposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                It's one of life's mysteries peeples. It is impossible to fathom.

              2. csmiravite-blogs profile image87
                csmiravite-blogsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I really don't know what to say, since I experienced the see-saw in hub scores myself. But this happened when I was not submitting any hubs. I don't know about participation in the forums, since I only have fun looking around and poking some hubbers if I find the discussion interesting. I think, it has something to do with how we write our hubs and following the changes that HP and Google would want us to do. We need to look at other people's hub so we will know how to create good hubs ourselves. By following the discussions in the forums, we will also know what to avoid and how to do some good writing. My one cent...

        6. Gek Aka profile image60
          Gek Akaposted 20 months ago

          I share your frustration my dear the scores on the hubs are not long stable but go up and down with time. I don't know what Hubpages is using to determine the score if only is audience interactions

          1. LongTimeMother profile image98
            LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Do you have another account here as well, Gek Aka? This account is 7 weeks old and has 5 hubs. Hardly long enough for score fluctuations to be too frustrating. It makes perfect sense when a new account is just settling in.

            1. psycheskinner profile image79
              psycheskinnerposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Mine is four years old with 180 hubs and my hubberscore sucks and changes radically from week to week.  I do find that mildly surprising.

              1. LongTimeMother profile image98
                LongTimeMotherposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                That's more than 'mildly' surprising, psycheskinner. With the time and effort you must have invested here to create 180 hubs, I'd like to think someone at HP would reply to an email if you asked them for their reasoning.

                In your position, I'd certainly be emailing to ask for an explanation. Please let us know how you go.

         
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