Have we figured it out yet?

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  1. profile image0
    Marye Audetposted 11 years ago

    So other than the fact that Google has apparently decided I am a crappy writer and my traffic is down from 17k a day to maybe 1600... with a similar decline in income... Do we yet know why this happened?  Feeling a little bitter. Have had to take on enough clients that I rarely have time to come here anymore even to check my steadily dropping stats. ;(

    1. viking305 profile image94
      viking305posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree it is a crappy situation.  My traffic and income has been annihilated too never to be seen again.  I have written so many more hubs to try to get something back but it is getting worse, 

      Just thinking a few moments ago whether all this work is worth it.  I do love writing but I am fed up being kicked in the teeth by Google.  I really need the extra income I was earning here to survive for paying bills etc

      Marye I too am feeling very bitter!.  Looks like no one can figure it out yet!

    2. Marisa Wright profile image87
      Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Marye, you're in a tough situation.  I don't subscribe to the view that it's a HubPages-wide problem and that when they fix it, we'll all recover.   How can it be, when some of us have already recovered our traffic (though not to previous levels) and others have never lost it?

      I don't believe you will ever get a solution handed to you - from HubPages or anywhere else - because there are so many possible reasons for a Panda slap.  I can tell you how I recovered (I think) - but that may not work for you.  And I can't even be sure which of my actions triggered my recovery.

      So, IMO, you've got a tough decision to make.  Sitting and waiting is a choice - you're effectively choosing to abandon your Hubs, because they will never recover on their own.   That's a valid choice if you've got better income earning opportunities elsewhere, of course.

      Your other options are either to spend time trying to work out what caused the Panda slap, or to move your Hubs to your own blog or blogs (which need to be specific to one topic, of course).   Many webmasters have found that material which was "Panda'd" becomes successful again when moved to another site.

      In fact that's how I accidentally recovered.  I started unpublishing some of my dance Hubs to move them to my dance blogs.  Lo and behold, my traffic started to pick up.  I can only assume one of those Hubs offended Google (Panda assigns a score to your whole sub-domain based on your "worst" Hubs) and by removing it, I fixed the problem.  but of course, I don't really know.

      1. profile image0
        Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Marisa I have unpublished numerous hubs. I think at this point it's around 200? I have tweaked as I can... I am back to working for clients 18 hours a day, which I haven't done for 3 years at least, so I don't have a lot of time to play with my hubs. I wish I did.I have not abandoned them... but I am not in a position to put much time in them since I have to actually work for paying clients rather than just myself.
        On a happy note, my food blog has taken off and is regularly well over 200k views.

        Lissie, I am curious. Since I mostly do food writing (and color images used to be almost impossible to get right) is the Amazon platform now image friendly?

        1. Lissie profile image80
          Lissieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          YES - google Kindle Fire! Or look at iPad or other tablet options. I don't own a tablet - but I'd consider one just so I didn't have to drag my laptop into the kitchen when I'm using recipes!

    3. janderson99 profile image55
      janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm reluctant to offer advice - so I'll offer someone else's !!!!!
      see IzzyM comments in http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/100616#post2150609
      I think that interlinking between hubs in a sub is very important. I provide several inks within the text as IzzyM suggests (but I use whole phrases) and also 5-6 "Related Articles" links to my own closely related hubs (not RSS). I also do external RSS as a set of references which are updated to provide 'freshness'. I have no idea whether any of this works. But My traffic has started to rise again after falling for most of 2012, but I have kept adding hubs. I think the links to closely related pages and sites provides some authority. The interlinking adds to the links counted for ranking. The external RSS adds a dash of freshness and authority by linking with NYT and BBC sites. I think this is more important that rewriting - but Paul E thinks otherwise.
      Cheers and Best Wishes.

    4. Susana S profile image93
      Susana Sposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There are a lot of potential reasons that could account for your panda slap, but one of things I've noticed both on hubpages and on other sites, is that having the same phrase in many page titles is not a good thing post panda. (One of the things the panda algorithm looks for is over-optimisation signals). 

      Looking at your account I noticed that you recently published quite a few hubs with the phrase "cooking basics" in the titles - that also seems to coincide with your traffic drop? I'd suggest removing the phrase.

      Another thing that I believe can cause a panda penalty is having affiliate links on every page (amazon, ebay or other affiliates) - if you get the opportunity to read google's rater guidelines then you'll understand why I think this is the case. When my account got panda'd one of the things I did was to drastically reduce the number of affiliate links across my account, making sure to only keep them on the pages where I got the most sales, and completely removing them from pages that never got sales. Yeah, my amazon income is down quite a bit (!) but my account did recover.

      Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope it helps smile

      1. profile image0
        Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you. I am trying your suggestions.

      2. Nalini Marquez profile image91
        Nalini Marquezposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        So just curious, I have not yet read through Google's rater guidelines but from what you've written: is it beneficial to have some hubs with no affiliate links to balance out with the ones that have a lot of affiliate links?

      3. Sinea Pies profile image62
        Sinea Piesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Susana S, I had not realized that putting Amazon on every hub was a Google-faux pas. Hmmm.  Gotta analyze and remove. How much time passed before you noticed a real improvement?

        1. Marisa Wright profile image87
          Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Sinea, Susana S is very knowledgeable about the internet but on this occasion, I disagree with her.

          I have websites with hundreds of eBay and Amazon links which have never been Panda'd.   I do think it's possible to overdo links, but HubPages already has a limit in place and I think it's sufficient.

          She is spot-on about the titles though.  Google is suspicious of similar titles  across several articles - it sees them as a sign of "spun" content (i.e. the same article written several different ways). So I'd suggest editing your titles to make sure they are all different.  I know that's frustrating when you have a series - but you can always include a links capsule in the Hub, with links to the others in the series, instead.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You are the only person in the entire world of the internet who believes that affiliate links are not problematic. lol.

            Also a plethora of similar titles is specifically mentioned in Google's how to avoid Panda guidelines.

            I write nice worthy educational pages (as best I can) and mix in my money making pages with care.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image87
              Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Hmmm, really?   I could point you to several forums for affiliate marketers, full of people who still make a decent living with affiliate links.  Unfortunately you'd need to buy the affiliate software to become a member.

              It's absolutely true that the old trick, of creating spam sites crammed with nothing but affiliate links, no longer works (I'm glad to say) - and as you know, HubPages took steps to stop that practice here a long time ago.  The current limits on affiliate capsules are just fine as far as I can see, there is no need to panic and start removing even more.

              That's what I was advising her to change them.

              1. PaulGoodman67 profile image96
                PaulGoodman67posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Affiliate ads appear to be more problematic on HubPages than other places for some reason.  I have drastically reduced both the number of capsules overall and the number of hubs that feature capsules.  My view is to use the bare minimum - I agree with Susana S on this.  There is no solid evidence, there rarely is when it comes to the algo - however, people using affiliate ads do definitely seem more prone to crashing.

                1. Marisa Wright profile image87
                  Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't think I've observed that, frankly. I've crashed and I don't use affiliate ads heavily on HubPages (I do most of my affiliate marketing on my own sites).   It's true that some of the high profile "Sales Hubbers" crashed - but that had nothing to do with their affiliate capsules.  That was because they were using backlinking schemes to rise in the SERPS, and when those backlinks were devalued, they sank like a stone.

    5. ngureco profile image80
      ngurecoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      What are the implications of being on the front page?

      1. You must be having very good articles
      2. You get lots of backlinks – from marketers interested in earning the 10 percent referral commission.

      Might the search engines be taking those backlinks as negative SEO?

    6. lorlie6 profile image76
      lorlie6posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Marye-this is so strange...when did it start?  I ask because my traffic has soared in the last 2 days.  If you're a 'crappy writer', then I'll be damned!  I absolutely don't get this-check out this thread:

      I started it since this is so bizarre-I am a bit suspicious, but grateful, though I hope it's not at others' expense!

    7. profile image0
      BRIAN SLATERposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry to hear that Mary, I just got back from a two week holiday to see my stats have dropped 75% over the past few days. You turn your back for a couple of minutes and bang Mr.G takes his revenge.

    8. ktrapp profile image92
      ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Marye - I certainly don't think Google has decided that you are a "crappy" writer, but maybe with some of their changes they are now having more difficulty "finding" your hubs. Google needs some "road signs" to find your hubs for the terms people are searching for and after really taking an in-depth look at quite a few of your hubs I think there is one simple thing you can do that may make a dramatic difference.

      So this is my two-cents worth, but I think it may be a lot more valuable than that, plus it's easy to implement....

      The number one problem I see is that your main keyword phrase found in your titles, often is not repeated anywhere in the body of your hubs. Google is trying to give people what they are looking for and it really helps to have the main keyword phrase in your title also repeated once in the actual content. I am not talking about keyword stuffing at all; the phrase in the title and once in the body should be enough. Look at the Google snippets that precede your hubs and notice that most of them have the words from the search query (in bold) in the body of the website and often the title and url too.

      Here are examples from three of your hubs and what I would change if I were you:

      (1) Best Homemade Donut Recipes - For the search query "homemade donut recipes" your hub shows up as #18 on Google (for me), #4 if I filter by recipes. That phrase "homemade donut recipe(s)" is not in the body of your hub at all. I think by adding it there you could easily improve this hub's SERP.

      This is what I would do (My additional words are in italics):
      - Change the first sentence to: "With a homemade donut recipe in hand, the only real equipment you need is a deep fryer..."
      - Add an image caption to your first photo: "Made from my favorite homemade donut recipe"

      (2) Learning Basic Knife Skills - The search query I used and couldn't find your hub in Google is "basic knife skills." However, you do not have that phrase anywhere in the body of the hub.

      This is what I would do:
      - Add an image caption to your first photo: "A full set of knives makes learning basic knife skills easy."
      - Change your opening sentence to: "Having basic knife skills will not only make your kitchen chores faster and easier..."
      - Change sentence in 2nd paragraph to:"...you can't really see what they are doing, but learning basic knife skills is easier than it looks"

      (3) How Do You Make a Friendship Bracelet?"

      This is what I would do:
      - Change the title to: "How to Make a Friendship Bracelet: 5 Easy Steps"
      - Add image caption: "My daughter learned how to make a friendship bracelet in 15 minutes" (or whatever the case is)
      - Change the first sentence to: "Learning how to make a friendship bracelet is fun and easy and explains why it has become such a popular craft over the past few years..."

      If I were you, I would pick 5-10 hubs and see how they currently rank in Google for each hub's main keyword phrase and jot it down and save it. (Make sure you logout of Google so you get accurate placement results; they're higher if you're logged in.) Then go to Google Webmaster Tools and submit the 5-10 URLs so Google crawls to them sooner (I have a hub on how to do this if you are unsure; it's easy though). Then after they have been re-crawled by Google, search Google again with the exact same keyword phrases as before and see if your hubs have moved up. If you see improvement then you can move forward and work on other hubs.

      If you choose to do this, I feel certain that it will help. Either way, best of luck to you.

      1. jacharless profile image78
        jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        @ktrapp #weoughttoconsidergoingintobusinesstogether. lol
        Very good advice on those hubs.

        Sidebar, folks. No pun intended. Pun, what pun?
        This one: your Hub Folksonomy {am drafting such a hub as I type}.

        Here's the bees neez:
        Meta Author, Summary, Title, Organic Link {canonical} and Keywords are a must. These are the robotic sum-substances of indexing.

        Content-as-Keywords, Paragraph headers, Images, Videos, Footnotes {which none seem to use} - all need Folksonomy {previous called tags} to enable the robot to properly read/instant your article, above others in your identical classification. this holds true for internal as well as external. to often, everyone goes Goo-goo and forgets the HubSearch is a powerful, powerful tool.

        No, you do not have to label everything in the article. Obsessive-compulsive people like myself do that. But order your folksonomy according to the sub-classes of information within the entire article.

        Recipes is a sub-category or sub-Taxonomy {Categorical Index} of Baking, also known as breadcrumbs. Donuts fall under Baking not Recipes.
        {Recipe is the most redundant food related Keyword on earth}.
        Baking > Donuts > Millie Homemade Vanilla Cream Donut Recipe
        Now, in 500 words, how can you distribute relative words {folksonomy} into your content. For the super-advanced writer, always say, PLES. Philology, Linguistics, Etymology and Semantics still require excellent folksonomy.


        1. ktrapp profile image92
          ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks James. I'm not sure about going into business together smile and am unfamiliar with the term folksonomy. However, I looked it up and it seems like pretty common sense stuff but I will be sure to check out your Hub when it is published.

          1. jacharless profile image78
            jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Check out the idea behind 43 Things Dot Com or even Good Reads. Both concepts implore strong, concentrated folksonomy to filter information, links, content, etc. Very kewl stuff. { I am such a geek .lol. }

            1. Melovy profile image93
              Melovyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Kirsten and Jacharless,
              I found your posts very useful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

              1. ktrapp profile image92
                ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks Melvoy.

      2. profile image0
        lovedoctor926posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        useful tips. thanks

      3. profile image0
        Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you so much!! I haven't been back because I am behind on deadline (still...UGH!) but I so appreciate your suggestions. I will give it a try over the next few days... or as soon as I can...

        As far as a drop on July 17 ..... I unpublished over 400 hubs that weren't getting google traffic in the same way that they had been. I looked for short viewing times, high bounce rates, and other issues. I also unpublished hubs that were unrelated to the homesteading/homeschooling/cooking theme UNLESS they were still getting good traffic. That would account for the slight drop.

        I also got an email back from Google in reference to a query about my subdomain... you can see it here - http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/101127

      4. Melis Ann profile image80
        Melis Annposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I would love an analysis of my hubs by someone with experience! I have zero Google traffic after one of my hubs was getting over 100 hits per day. My drop only occured a week ago and I saw no decrease until then. From reading this forum there are a couple things I can fix - possibly an issue with my titles being too similar, maybe my recipe hubs are too unrelated, am I linking too many of my other hubs as references? I know my content is authentic and I'm still able to share my message with friends and family which is my ultimate goal. However, once my hubs started getting a lot of traffic, I got used to it - now that it's gone, it is very disappointing. I have been reluctant to start making changes as I want to go in with a solid strategy. Most frustrating is the fact that I don't think Google is indexing my hubs anymore (webmaster says 0 index, but there are no errors or messages and the URLs have all been submitted to index).

  2. LuisEGonzalez profile image79
    LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years ago

    You're not alone, I too have seen a huge decline in views and I am at a loss as to the reasons. I hope that staff gets back to us and shares anything to reassure us..............sad

  3. profile image0
    Marye Audetposted 11 years ago

    Well, misery loves company I suppose. I have heard from a variety of writers that I have worked with for years.. people, like me, who have been writing full time for years... Everyone is hurting, whether or not they write for hubpages. Clients are dropping them, everything... so it may be time to consider other possibilities.

  4. Rochelle Frank profile image92
    Rochelle Frankposted 11 years ago

    I'm with you , too. After after increasing my views to a much more 'respectable' level, I'm, now getting about 1/8 of my highest number of looks per day. Like the rest of you, I'm asking myself, "Why  am I doing this?"
    Still, I'm feeling hopeful that it will head back up someday.
    It is really hard to figure--Google wants lots of people to see their ads, don't they? So why do they make it so only a fraction of those viewers, that we used to attract, are now seeing them?  Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly.

  5. WannaB Writer profile image89
    WannaB Writerposted 11 years ago

    I've also seen my views and earnings go down -- just when I thought I'd start getting a monthly payout. It's discouraging. Guess I'll go back to writing for the love of it and hope the money follows. Isn't that what's supposed to happen? "Do what you love and the money will follow?"

    1. Lissie profile image80
      Lissieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If its a hobby for you. For some of us this is a business and our only income

  6. waynet profile image67
    waynetposted 11 years ago

    I've been diversifying with ebooks, video content and selling my own video content on dvd and other stuff too.....writing content in this Google dominated climate just isn't as effective as it once was!

  7. Lissie profile image80
    Lissieposted 11 years ago

    OK I'm going to keep this short, because I figure most people will ignore my advice anyways, but I've been here a very long time and I remember members like Marye as being successful when I started here as a newbie in 2007.

    I moved on from Hubpages to my own mini-websites, they were destroyed by Google's changes at the end of April. From my ever decreasing Adsense earnings from Hubpages I assuming that Hubpages got hit again as well.

    I've revamped my business. I've taken my modest, compared to some of you, writing skills and I am now a published author. The one consistent earner I've had for the last year? The book (inspired by a hub no less) which I published on Amazon and elsewhere a  year ago. I'm not making a fortune, but I know from other's reports, I can fairly easily replace my online income, and then some, by just getting some books written and published.

    I'm planning on another 2 within the next 2 months (one is going to a professional editor today).

    The revolution is happening people, eBooks have exploded in the last 12 months, and its just the start.

    So please stop wasting your time on blind faith. Google wants to squeeze small websites and user-content sites (e.g hubpages, wizzley) out of the picture. Hubpages management has demonstrated that they have no more of clue than the rest of us.

    In contrast, Amazon is delighted to make 30% on every book I sell, and I'm happy for them to take given the excellent platform they provide me, in fact they've the invented the most exciting time in history for writers - except possibly the invention of the printing press.

    1. Dorsi profile image89
      Dorsiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Lissie, nice to "see" you. I've been dilly-dallying with 2 e-book ideas and you've motivated me to get off my behind. I am glad to hear you are bouncing back. Writing online had become an income for me but now after this latest hit my traffic has been down 75%. I'm going to keep on hubbing but realize I need to diversify also.

      I'll have to check out your books! Congrats!

    2. gramarye profile image60
      gramaryeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This seems to be the best advice I've ever seen on this topic. Thanks for sharing.

  8. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 11 years ago

    We obviously care a ton about helping authors do as well as they can.  I don't think Google has it right, but I do think there are things we can test to see if it helps them understand what content is better.  We have a few tests we started running last week and are working on several others.

    I personally have been going through my old Hubs and seeing if I can make them all very good or better.  I do believe google wants the results to be high quality.  I just don't think they're making that decision in a healthy manner. 

    I'm a big believer that good actors will create amazing content if the path to success is there.  Google needs to make sure that they show that there is a path for good actors.

    1. jacharless profile image78
      jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well said, Paul.

  9. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 11 years ago

    Lissie, I appreciate that post, and I think you are right that people that care about income will continue to optimize to find a path that works for themselves.

    I've looked at the paid content model a ton.  Ebooks, apps, etc.  are proving to be a different type of opportunity that require a different type of marketing skill.  I'm interested in learning more how folks are marketing these. Have you found things that work well for you?

    What do you think of content apps for iphone/ipad vs ebooks on amazon?

    1. Lissie profile image80
      Lissieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      To be honest I personally don't own an iPad/iPhone I haven't done a ton of research re apps. Its on my list because my niche is travel, but if I did do anything like that it would be cross-platform because I think Android is catching up big time.

      As you correctly say, I am currently going the route of least resistance, which, for me anyways happens to be Amazon. Its easy to use (relatively as I fight some formatting issues LOL), and as a marketing platform its superb.

      Basically to rank on Amazon is not a whole lot different from Google: you need to start with an appealing title/sub-title and description which includes both keywords (for search engines) and which gives the reader a reason to buy.

      To get sales you need:
      * a good book
      * an engaging cover image
      * good quality "look within" excerpt (about 10% of the book) which acts as a teaser to get people to buy and is not full of irrelevant stuff like long copyright pages (put it at the back instead)
      * decent copy in the book description
      * sensible reviews - which don't appear to be "gamed"

      I initially did a lot of off-Amazon promotion. But with my second book I'm purely going to do on-site promotion. That will include using the Select program to set my book for free for a few days to get rankings and reviews. Once you have sales your book shows up at the end of other books - people who read this book also read... And that's really powerful.

      The other innovation is that if your book is in Select, Amazon Prime members can borrow it - at this time you get paid around $2/borrow (it varies month by month). Some NF writers I know are making 1/2 their income from borrows rather than outright sales. I want to see if borrows of one book will drive sales of another book (in the same niche). I suspect so from my own buying habits - but I'm a poor example as I am hardly the dispassionate observer!

    2. Lissie profile image80
      Lissieposted 11 years ago

      Oh and I should have said - that in many cases Hubpage writers can re-use their hub content for eBooks as they retain the copyright for their work. So its not even an either or situation.

      1. fpherj48 profile image59
        fpherj48posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Lizzie, I would greatly appreciate knowing more about e-book publishing on Amazon.  Would I simply go to Amazon.com and search for info?  If, not, please tell me Step #1...or how to begin the process.  Thank you so much!

    3. Living Well Now profile image59
      Living Well Nowposted 11 years ago

      It isn't just HP that is suffering from a drought of visitors. Other blogging sites are losing visitors from search engines too.


    4. Kangaroo_Jase profile image76
      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 11 years ago


      From what you describe it sounds like one of your sub domains has been savagely sandboxed by Google.

      I have just come out of a 4 month hit where my views had dropped by 65%.

      I had added about 6 new hubs in that time and edited about 12. I deleted none.

      Only in the last couple of have I seen my hubs come out of the gates and traffic return to pre Panda levels for the first time in 18 months.

      Statistically I don't have enough data to see how much others are affected by gains or losses at any time, just anecdotal evidence as read in the forums like your current predicament.

      Whilst Paul and the the HubPages team do everything they can to help and improve this site, if Panda showed us anything it is diversify or die.

      It's been this way for some time now. Man ( or woman) cannot dine on content sites alone.

      1. profile image0
        Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Oh, I have always diversified! y hubpages income allowed me to be picky about what clients I chose. smile  can't do that anymore

        1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image76
          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 11 years agoin reply to this


          I know this traffic drop is sudden, but it will come back. The real pain is not knowing how long or when it will return.

          Glad to know you do have other endeavors.

        2. LuisEGonzalez profile image79
          LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Ms. Audet, you said that you write ebooks. Is Booktango a good publisher?

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Luis - I don't know. I have done only one e-book and I did not like how it went down... SO I have to work on it more... I have published a hard copy book but it was not self published... It was a medium sized company called Adams Media.

            I think I am going to go with Kindle at this point.. but I know that SmashWords is an excellent e-book publisher. Good luck

            1. Lissie profile image80
              Lissieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              @Marye just to clarify - Smashwords are a distributor not a publisher. Although Ive sold the odd book direct from the site I've sold more from B&N, Apple, Kobe, all of whom are stores that Smashwords distribute to. If you are in the US I believe you can also publish direct with B&N and Apple. As of very recently residents of most counties  can now distribute directly to Kobe as well.

              The point of the Indie revolution is that you don't need a publisher you can do it yourself, by hiring your own cover designer, editor, book formatter. Or my learning those skills yourself e.g. I outsource editing and cover design, do my own formatting.

              Its so much cheaper to pay one-off and up front for these skills rather than with a publisher who will then take an ongoing % of your income.

    5. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 11 years ago

      Things are a long way from disastrous for me. My better pages seem to keep their traffic whatever happens.

      Over the last week I have even seen a modest upturn.

      The problem is that it is impossible to feel secure and it is impossible to feel that hard work = increasing income.

      I should also say, that having noted some honest reporting of Amazon ebook income I was discouraged.

    6. profile image0
      Arlene V. Pomaposted 11 years ago

      I just celebrated my first year on HubPages last month, and my traffic is crawling back up again.  Ignorance continues to be bliss for me.  I am aware that some writers here need the income.  My goal was either a payout or completing a year here, and I've achieved both.  No matter what, I tell myself to keep writing.  Many Hub authors quit, and I'm determined not to be one of them.

      1. Rochelle Frank profile image92
        Rochelle Frankposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I am glad to hear that! You are a very good writer and back up your informational hubs with  solid research. Even though you are still 'new' I think you are one of the better writers here.
        I wouldn't blame you a bit if you found a better "home" for some of your articles-- everyone always has that option, but I'm glad to see you continuing.

    7. profile image0
      Arlene V. Pomaposted 11 years ago

      You are my inspiration, Rochelle.  Thank you for your advice and your encouragement.  I am so glad I was able to meet with you over the weekend.  You are the first Hub author I have met, and I had come away from our meeting on a very positive note!  I have found that the HubPages payout continues as long as you keep at it, but being retired, I've finally found that it's not the money that drives me.  Writing is my passion.  There are so many places to find "homes" for articles, but I did enjoy your insights on your own publishing experiences.  I am hoping that will be my next step (book?), but when you're retired, you can be a little more relaxed about deadlines.  LOL!

    8. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 11 years ago

      Sadly, I am not effected as much as most of you. 17k views down to 1.6k is a TON to lose. Im still trying to get back to around 600-700 a day that I last peaked at. I have held my ranking in Google pretty well for most of my content and the traffic isn't the biggest and best but between what I do get I have a pretty good CTR and every-time I write I see some Google traffic early, it drops off, then it picks up again on time like it should.

      Ironically, even content from a year or two ago is now for the first time getting traffic! Less then 300 views total in 2 years and now about 400 a month - no changes, no work, no updating!

      Hopefully if my stats are being effected by Google when hubpages or google changes again it will release a huge increase of traffic and clicks big_smile


    9. 2uesday profile image67
      2uesdayposted 11 years ago

      I have a gut feeling that search engines now favor new fresh content, such as you add to blogs over my 'static pages' here and elsewhere. But I am no way in the same group as the front pagers and never have been.

      Mary and the other professional web-writers here were a 'gold standard' to aim to emulate when I joined. I am sorry to see that they are suffering from such a drastic change in fortunes.

      1. profile image0
        Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I was writing new content and updating my old content several times a week until April. I don't think that is it.

      2. 2uesday profile image67
        2uesdayposted 11 years ago

        I think the change we have seen may be to do with many factors. These might include the way people are on-line in a different way now. The generation in their early twenties and younger do not communicate, research or shop in the same way as older generations did. This change does flow upwards through different age groups.

        Here is a simple example which may seem unrelated but it is  about a change in culture -  fifteen years ago a teenager would pre-arrange to meet their friends, plan it and turn up at a certain time and place. If someone got the details wrong that was it the plan fell through.

        Now as they walk out of their front door they are communicating with messages or speaking to each other as they travel to meet up.

        I am saying this is evolving and it is about speed and possibly it could end up so that nobody wants to read 1000 words to discover something.  It  maybe turning into the information version  of fast food versus a proper cooked meal. 

        The ebooks probably are appealing to a different market who want books without the hassle or clutter of owning them.

        However, it may be that things will turn a corner and improve soon.

      3. IzzyM profile image88
        IzzyMposted 11 years ago

        I had already implemented changes to my hubs before this hub was written, but it is excellent advice IMO - http://thephoenixlives.hubpages.com/hub … -To-Fix-It

        It has NOT brought Google traffic back to my main slapped account (although half my traffic returned to one of my other slapped accounts), but it has brought a huge increase in traffic from all the other search engines.

        It has sent traffic through the roof on un-slapped accounts (yes I have a few, that is how I diversified - I like writing on this platform best).

        I still think my account is sandboxed (although I've been advised otherwise by someone I highly respect on the forums).

        We will know soon enough, as the year is up next month.

        If, after that, Google does not send me traffic, THEN I will consider unpublishing yet more hubs and moving them to either new subdomains or off-site.

        Meanwhile the new subdomains I started are now bringing me more traffic than this account ever got, even at its height, and in a very short time, which is useful to know for those of you who think only aged subdomains can do well.

        Take the knowledge you have learned about how to write for the search engines, and start again.

        Then if Google slap one account, you should still have others to keep your income levels up.

      4. melbel profile image93
        melbelposted 11 years ago

        I'm so sorry you're experiencing such a drop in traffic. sad I'm glad, though, that your food blog is getting good traffic and hopefully it'll continue to build and bring you a bit of sunshine. smile

        I really hope your hubs pick up again. I don't see how you out of x hubbers could have gotten Google slapped.

        I'm just on this one subdomain. Well, I do have one rather undeveloped subdomain and I really help my sister out on hers, but I really need to spread my work out online instead of just here on "melbel." I used to have a mess of blogs that I regularly updated, but over time (spending too much time here, really), I've neglected them.

        Anyway, I really hope things pick up for you. If it's of any minor consolation, one of your hubs is my mom's all time favorite hub and is what she feels is an ideal article, "How to Make a Rain Barrel Cheaply."


      5. PaulGoodman67 profile image96
        PaulGoodman67posted 11 years ago

        My traffic has picked up in recent weeks, but it is nothing compared to what it was 6 months ago.

        I have not written anything new for my main HP account (this one).  I have moved out or deleted about 20% of my hubs, and edited and updated the rest (no mean feat!).

        I have opened 2 new HP accounts which have a niche or theme - too early to say how well they will do and they are small at present.

        I have blogs at Blogger, articles on Infobarrel and Wizzley, own sites.  Nothing is doing particularly great at present, although HP does seem worse than the rest, mainly because when it was good, it was very good.

      6. janderson99 profile image55
        janderson99posted 11 years ago

        It is interesting to look at www.hubpages.com/success and the traffic graphs available by clicking the "get more details" Some show a fleeting sign of recovery - most of these are for subs that have recent hubs (one major exception). Maybe Google's freshness factor applies to a sub - if nothing is published recently it is discounted. Anyway signs of hope there!!! Perhaps stale subs wither and die!

        1. thranax profile image71
          thranaxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, most of those look pretty bad lol. Only about 3 show a little upward "mark". Hopefully with them all ours starts rising back up too!


        2. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I must have latent Stalinist tendencies. I would suppress that data immediately. Because it is too damn depressing...

          1. melbel profile image93
            melbelposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Haha! I was thinking the same thing!!

          2. janderson99 profile image55
            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hope Springs Eternal when the Worm Turns
            They all stopped hubbing and went stale.

            1. Living Well Now profile image59
              Living Well Nowposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It's interesting to note the surge in traffic all the successful hubbers had in 2011 then the plunge in 2012. A few are still publishing hubs but their traffic is still down. Smoothing for the surge still finds traffic falling.

              Looking at the number of backlinks on each profile in the Success Stories paints an interesting picture. None of the Hubbers have nearly as many Google backlinks as they do Bing backlinks. Single or low double-digit (in the teens) backlinks from Google but thousands on Bing. Checking out the location of these backlinks on Bing shows many of the links are parked across the Web. The backlinks on Google are almost always to other hubpages.com pages or a personal website, and not on another domain like the Bing backlinks.  Apparently, Google is ignoring backlinks to their hubs.

              1. melbel profile image93
                melbelposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Aren't Bing and Yahoo known for being a great place to find your backlinks, whereas Google generally doesn't make this information easy to find? It's an honest question, not being snarky.

                I just heard somewhere, that if you want a realistic picture of your Google backlinks, search Yahoo site explorer (now merged with Bing webmaster tools), since Google is stingy with that info.

                1. Living Well Now profile image59
                  Living Well Nowposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure, most sites show more Bing backlinks than Google ones, but when blogspot subdomains with identical PR have 4x as many Google backlinks as hubpages subdomains, then I wouldn't think Google's hiding backlinks, but I can't say for certain. A sampling of blogspot backlinks from Google shows plenty of links to other domains while hubpages backlinks are primarily to hubpages.

                  I don't think it's any coincidence that HPs reach, traffic rank, and percentage of search have fallen since the Penguin update. That being said, I've noticed HP's percentage of search rose almost 700% yesterday and it's been rising the last week. It could be Google just disabled those backlinks, leveling the playing field, causing traffic to fall and now traffic is on the rise. I don't think it will hurt hubbers to write more hubs; they may catch the wave up.

                  You can use Google Analytics to see some other backlinks. I don't know how well it will detect spammy backlinks.

                  Traffic Sources>Social>Pages>Activity Stream>Conversations and >Events

              2. janderson99 profile image55
                janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I think interlinking between hubs in a sub and having "authority" links to external references may be a key. I think we need HP to do some correlation analysis to provide data to better understand what REALLY drives traffic to a site. Paul E has suggested that they will do this. They have the data and staff - its not hard to do. see http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/100443

                1. janderson99 profile image55
                  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Several features of the "success" hubs seem to standout, which may contribute to their poor page ranking (very preliminary look)
                  => hubs very short <600 words
                  => high amazon + ebay ad counts in relation to the number of words
                  => little if any interlinking
                  => titles are poorly crafted for both traffic and competition
                  => pages now compete with lots of new hubs on the same narrow topic

                  There is a need for proper statistical analysis.

            2. profile image0
              Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I have not stopped hubbing at all. Many of the writers I know are losing long term clients because the market is so saturated and difficult right now. But I am glad that our struggles are an encouragement to some people. smile

              1. PaulGoodman67 profile image96
                PaulGoodman67posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Janderson comes out with all sorts of theories.  I don't think he is correct on this one.  I think the sudden big sudden drops are caused by Panda and (potentially?) fixable by individual hubbers.  The longer term slow decline may well need action by HP though.  Google seems to be increasingly pushing "policing" responsibilities onto websites like HP - they want the website to sort out the good from the bad, as Google themselves can't do it effectively with their current set up.  If a website has too much low quality material, Google punishes the entire site, good articles as well as bad.

      7. Dolores Monet profile image94
        Dolores Monetposted 11 years ago

        I was down to 1/4 of my past traffic, now I'm at 1/2 less than before the most recent slap.  I wonder if Google slapped the whole HP when HP ads were featured more prominently at the top of the page. Now I see more Google ads. Maybe that will help. They exist to make money. They made money from their ads. This may be simplistic thinking, but, even so. The sad thing, for me, is that I made more money from the HP ads. Hoping that traffic increases in the fall. May remove some older hubs that don't perform.

        1. melbel profile image93
          melbelposted 11 years ago

          What about setting up Authorship with Google+? I know it's probably not the cause, but I figure every little bit helps. I ran your profile through the Rich Snippets checker thing and it looks like it's incorrectly configured (it was a pain in the butt for me to get working, but I FINALLY got it to work with my stuff here on HP.)

          ^That's the snippets checker thingamajig

          1. Dolores Monet profile image94
            Dolores Monetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hmmm. I really should know more about the how it all works, after all these years. I'll check this out. Thank you, melbel!

          2. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            How do I add the html code to my profile? And do I add the html to ALL of my pages? I thought I had it right....

            1. profile image0
              Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Duh... never mind.

              1. melbel profile image93
                melbelposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Looks like you got it goin'. Yeah, it was a huge pain for me, too! Especially since snippets didn't seem to want to update right away!

        2. profile image0
          Marye Audetposted 11 years ago

          Well I spent the entire day unpublishing low traffic hubs that did not fit my original article focus of Homesteading, Homeschooling, and Natural Medicine. Within those categories I did leave up some of the cooking and home improvement hubs that seemed to relate. I have now dropped from 800+ hubs to 500+.
          I also spent some time adding internal hubpages links to the hubs that did not have them. I have changed a few titles as well.
          Over the next week I will tweak and adjust but if the theories hold I should begin to see better traffic - even if it just translates to less of a weekend plunge than usual. I do appreciate the input from y'all.

          Now, after 7 hours of Hub adjusting I am heading off to write some of the 45 articles I still have due, three of them before tomorrow at 5. Yay. :p
          You know, the glamorous, fun filled life of a writer and all...

          1. Marisa Wright profile image87
            Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, Mary, I took the opposite approach.  I didn't see much point in unpublishing Hubs which I couldn't use elsewhere.  So I unpublished my dance-related Hubs, which I can re-use on my blogs.  What's left on my HubPages account is a mishmash of all the other subjects I can't use elsewhere.

            It's true that if you have a standalone blog, it's important that it's focussed on a single topic.  However that doesn't seem to apply to HubPages sub-domains.  There is a Question or a Hub somewhere about that topic, and it became quite clear from the comments that many people have successful sub-domains that don't specialise.

            Remember that Panda isn't running constantly, so you won't see the results of your efforts until the next Panda run.  They happen about once a month (Google never announces when). 

            As for still Hubbing - do bear in mind that your Panda score isn't based on an average of all your Hubs.  It's based on your "worst" Hubs.  So adding new Hubs to that sub-domain won't do anything to improve your score - so it's a waste of time adding new content until you've seen some signs of recovery.  That's why Izzy has started new sub-domains instead of adding to her Panda'd/sandboxed account.

        3. Lissie profile image80
          Lissieposted 11 years ago

          Marye you are merely re-decorating the deck chairs on the SS Titanic.

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps, Lissie. But... I when I float to shore on them I want to look stylish. I do intend to spend time on Amazon, reading up on their Kindle stuff. smile

        4. LadyMar profile image60
          LadyMarposted 11 years ago

          I'm a newbie compared to others on this forum.  I started with HubPages in November 2011.  It has been slow going for me, due to the Christmas holidays and then I had surgery in February with a long recuperation and physical therapy time period.  So my hubs have been few, way less than what I thought I would have by now.

          Matter of fact, I haven't published a Hub in probably two months.  I plan to start up again but I'm disillusioned to see Hub writers like Lissie and Marye seeing decreasing views.  If they are having problems, it doesn't leave much hope for me, I'm afraid.

          I've been writing for 2-1/2 years with Examiner.com as a cooking article writing.  It is my passion and I've enjoyed it, but it has been a long slow process of building up page views.  I think I'm now up to about 450 articles.  But during the past 2 years numerous changes have been made that has made it more difficult for Examiner writers to continue their success or to get more success.  So it might not just be HubPages.  Perhaps a lot of e-writing has lost its steam along with the Google Panda (which I've not totally figure out what that is) and other things have happened out of our control.

          With me newly retired I've been trying to find suitable work on the internet for me to make some additional money.  I write about cooking and I have two more topics at Examiner - grocery shopping and Terrier dogs.  With HubPages, with some of my work background in cosmetics, skin care and fragrances I thought it would be fun to write about that on Hubpages.

          I wish everyone on here good luck and hopefully things will get better for us all.  This is just a thought, you don't suppose the poor economy, bad job market and bad housing market is negatively affecting the situations we are experiencing on the internet?

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If you want to write online for money, Hubpages is as good as anywhere. The only real alternative is Squidoo but they delete your pages fast if they don't get traffic and won't accept highly commercial pages, period.

            Wizzley is a possibility but still stuck in the gate.

            A lot of people still make money here and a lot more will do so when Google settles down-- especially when people understand better how to produce the content it wants to offer searchers.

            Online writing overall is probably in decline, partly because article writing for backlinks is now a waste of time and only genuinely good articles will make you money.

            1. profile image0
              Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Will, I still have plenty of clients.. I just have to work more for the same amount of money - but most of my clients are larger networks like SheKnows. I think it would be really hard to pick up clients right now if you didn't have a reputation.

              I know that content sites like LoveToKnow and even About are hurting to some extent and i notice a lot of advertisers are paying less CPM.  Nothing is impossible... it's just harder sometimes.

              1. janderson99 profile image55
                janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Marye - One suggestions -have a look at the source url for many of your images. Big G may not like them being very similar most of the time - Just a thought to try to help.

                1. profile image0
                  Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I get that but I do so many of my own images where else would I source them other than to myself? I suppose I could stop linking them completely....

                2. lorlie6 profile image76
                  lorlie6posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Marye-I sit scratching my head because my traffic has suddenly soared.  When did this start for you?  I hope my increase-from 70+ views/day to over 300 -isn't at others' expense.  If you're a 'crappy writer' then I'll be a rat's a**.  I've not done anything extraordinarily different to explain my improved numbers, not at all.
                  Check out this thread I started about it: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/100789.

                  1. thranax profile image71
                    thranaxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Its not that strange of an occurrence. No matter what you do something should always preform well. On a site like Hubpages its so massive that it tends to work in sections. A whole group will preform well while others struggle. I have a few hubs that are getting traffic for the first time in years (yes, years not months) and I have a few getting closer to the highest they ever received in a day. Also, on a side account I had a few hubs but one is now getting close to 100 views a day, before the last few weeks the account as a whole got 8-12 a day.

                    Though progress, luck, and hard work all shall prevail!


                    PS: A theory I have is Google took all the top preforming pages on the web, knocked them down to give other great content a chance at traffic. I have many hubs with a total of 200 views that are written well and now that the top performers in the same field are getting 80% less traffic, they all technically went up 800-1200% (even though thats not really great, impressive, or helpful they do have that much of an increase.) So maybe the answers lie in not looking at your top content go down, but look at everyones as a whole bottom performers going up! But hey, what do I know - its just a theory!

              2. Will Apse profile image89
                Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I'm just plodding along in my usual way, writing here, there and everywhere.

                It hurts a lot more these days when I have to spend money, Bad things (usually beginning with a 'p') keep taking little nibbles at my (un-vast) empire of text.

                You are lucky to have clients you are comfortable with. I worked freelance for a while but I did it with ill grace. The customer is always wrong! No matter they say, lol.

                1. profile image0
                  Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Will I have been lucky to have (mostly) pretty awesome clients that are willing to pay well. I have a pretty good portfolio over all which includes a book, magazine articles, and a lot of articles across the net - so that helps.

                  I think I could do better if I had time to network more through seminars and such. But there is that money thing...

        5. janderson99 profile image55
          janderson99posted 11 years ago

          Diagnosing the Potential Cause of the Plunge for 'Success' Hubbers
          In order to get some idea of potential reasons for the plunge of the 'success' group
          I have looked at 10 of the last 50 pages and compiled statistics for: average length of article, average number of Amazon+ Ebay ads, number of related links on the page for the author and the number of reference or external links (all shown as averages). The stats are summarized below.


          The are three groups:
          YELLOW(4) - Four of them have very short hubs with little interlinking. Ads are high for two of them.
          GREEN(3) - Three have medium length hubs, little interlinking and relatively high number of ads 3-7.
          BLUE(4) - Longer length hubs, mostly with interlinking. The major feature is the relatively high number of Affiliate ads 6- 12 per page- some have 19 per page.
          Take home messages
          => poor rating may be associated with short length (half with average length below 1000 words
          => poor interlinking
          => high number of affiliate ads - Perhaps there are simply too many ( 6-13 per page) and this causes a penalty.

          PS: Please HP how about some detailed stats analyses similar to this !!!!

        6. WriteAngled profile image75
          WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

          I don't quite follow. Is performance over the Panda period different for these three groups?

          Also, I'm not sure if I understand the difference between related links and reference links? Does related mean links within the subdomain, or links to other HP subdomains, while reference links means links totally outside of HP?

          1. janderson99 profile image55
            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The performance is the same for the three groups (all plunged at end of 2011) => multiple causes.
            Related links are links to other hubs in the same sub.
            Reference links are links to external sources or to other subs.
            These are ball-park figures from a quick scan.

        7. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 11 years ago

          I don't know if this has happened to anyone else yet. But on Tuesday I updated just a couple of hubs using the suggestions made by Pheonixlives and today my traffic has quadrupled! I haven't checked where the traffic is coming from yet (too excited) But also crossing my fingers and hoping it's not just some kind of freaky bot. Wow.

          1. IzzyM profile image88
            IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's you and me both! Not on this account, although the changes have increased traffic from every other search engine except Google.

            But one of my niche accounts simply took off when I interlinked them as phoenixlives suggests. I did it before he wrote his hub, after watching a webinar about how to get your traffic back after Panda.

            I strongly advise everyone whether you have lost traffic or not, to read his hub - http://thephoenixlives.hubpages.com/hub … -To-Fix-It

            While it might not get you back into Google's good graces just now, it can only help in the future.

            It can certainly help your subdomain see its potential as Google traffic diverts to it.

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I read all of the his hubs about  the subject and they really made sense. I.e not every bounce is a bad bounce; if you have answered the readers question and supplied the necessary info, then they will not click the back button and continue down the SERPS. Now, I have a hub that has only a two star view duration (most of my other hubs have a four or five) but the question can be answered in a sentence to be honest. Obviously, I gave a lot more related information, too. However, despite the two star view duration the hub is 1# in Google. Because the stats are delayed I can't see where the traffic has come from, but like you Izzy I would urge everyone to read those hubs. smile

        8. profile image0
          Marye Audetposted 11 years ago

          Also... sorry for so many responses this morning... but...
          I just want to thank all of you for being an encouragement and a help with all of your suggestions. I was on bed rest yesterday so I took the day to totally revamp my HP - at least the major stuff. I still will need to tweak a lot. Many of the articles that I unpublished will end up in e-books and on other sites of mine... and I may even begin a couple of new blogs.

          Since most of my original stuff was on homeschooling, homesteading, and such I am wondering if I should remove my antiques and collecting articles and create a new blog for them to give my HP more continuity? Thoughts?

          Oh, and thank you again....  I feel a bit less suicidal. big_smile

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Marye, when I logged into HP this morning is was to delete at least half of my hubs. (some of them pretty crappy but I think I've learned a bit more about writing for the internet) Pre my recent slap, I was receiving about 60 organic hits a day. That number dropped to 9 hits at worst and 30 hits at best. This morning, 170 hits. Tuesday I read Phoenixlives hubs and started to revise some of my hubs. Yesterday, I implemented the same changes onto another sub-domain which was doing ok anyway. This PM, their traffic has trebled. And I honestly don't think this is coincidence. So, if I were you, I'd hang on in there, read Pheonix's hubs, and see what happens.

            1. profile image0
              Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yep. I read them yesterday.... Today I am going to have to take in a couple of gallons of coffee to hit deadlines...

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Good luck. smile

          2. Kangaroo_Jase profile image76
            Kangaroo_Jaseposted 11 years agoin reply to this


            Being despondent is a natural reaction when you see a large body of work go down the tube and stay down for an extended period of time, as in Hubs for 3-4 months thanks to Mr Google.

            I see your one to weather the (current) storm your enduring with traffic that has tanked considerably.

            I also feel for those who simply find that its all too hard rather than re-evaluating and looking at other options when the shi* hits the fan.

            Importantly though, Im glad your no longer feeling suicidal!!!

          3. Marisa Wright profile image87
            Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I'd be careful about starting new blogs.  Google wants 'authority' sites these days - that means a site with LOTS of information on a single topic. So the new advice is you'll do better to concentrate all your efforts on building up one or two large blogs.

            For instance, I used to have one blog on tribal belly dance and one blog on classical belly dance.  Under the old Google algo, that made sense.  Now I've combined them into one blog. And I've even been told - by a couple of people I really respect - that I'll do much better if I take all my dance-related blogs and combine them into one big Dance blog.

            That's also why I removed most of my dance-related Hubs and moved them to my blogs - I need as much content as I can find.

            1. profile image0
              Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Marissa - the new blogs would all be on my restlesschipotle network so they have the authority of RC which is doing very VERY well. smile

          4. Lord De Cross profile image69
            Lord De Crossposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Just hang in there Marie Audet. Diversify, tweak and keep entertaining us. We have to run our own show the best we can. Google notices whern you update older hubs. Even HP reminds you everynow and them by expanding your statistics and last date you updated a hub.

        9. habee profile image92
          habeeposted 11 years ago

          My traffic has been ticking up a little, so I'm beginning to have some hope. lol

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's so close to the weekend I don't think I will know anything until monday or so

        10. rebekahELLE profile image87
          rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

          I know there are different viewpoints concerning niche sub-domains now, but I just took a look at a few of your antique hubs and I would somehow try to link them with your homesteading hubs, or possibly use a capsule to highlight a few of them.  Homesteaders often have and enjoy antiques.   Updating them and maybe moving an image or video above the fold may help also.  I have some pieces of Fenton glass that my mom gave me.  I love the look and feel of it. 

          Whatever you end up doing, you have some nice hubs which I'm sure collectors would find helpful.

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I may... I also have a network that I am building, RestlessChipotle Media and I could add an antiques and collectibles blog there.... I will wait and see what happens. smile

        11. Aficionada profile image82
          Aficionadaposted 11 years ago

          Marye, from the beginning your personal life story has made you the most inspiring Hubber on HP - bar none. I am so very sorry for what you are going through, but I know that if anyone on the web can overcome it and prevail, it has to be you. 

          My hope right now is that you are keeping notes on every detail of this ordeal: what happened before, what changed, what you are doing, and the results.  The story, when you have time to write it, will make a fantastic Hub, blog series, or e-book that I believe can and will inspire and encourage millions of people who want to make money on the web. And, I hope, will also make a lot of money for you.

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Aww... thank you.

        12. Whitney05 profile image84
          Whitney05posted 11 years ago

          Mine's super low and the revenue is AWFUL! I'm trying to boost my websites and blogs so I can supplement what I've lost here.

          Have you had any luck?

        13. LadyMar profile image60
          LadyMarposted 11 years ago

          What is the Phonexi some comments have mentioned??  I need all the help I can get.  smile

        14. LadyMar profile image60
          LadyMarposted 11 years ago

          BTW....for several years now I've thought about starting a blog, but I'm not sure how to go about it., any suggestions or books/articles to read about it?  Thanks!

        15. thranax profile image71
          thranaxposted 11 years ago

          Also, if that theory is true, the web consists of around 1% good content,  14% untapped good content, 85% low quality crap. If google's new algorithm makes more of the "less focused" work visible to searchers who are seriously looking for something that might be on that low end page only will put sales up for weaker content creators and in turn increase googles global spectrum of advertising revenue higher then focusing on the same high pages.

          Imagine that, if google accesses the 99% they didn't really profit off before...its like unlocking the full potential of ones brain...but bigger then anyone can ever imagine.

          Its the Occupy Movement ONLINE???


        16. Bard of Ely profile image82
          Bard of Elyposted 11 years ago

          Marye, and everyone reading this, I have been really disappointed with my traffic and earnings here. Before Panda I was starting at last to have an amount that at least helped me pay my bills and I could count on but now I can no longer do this and my earnings are dropping!

          I have tried improving hubs but it makes no difference, I have tried deleting low earners and that makes no change to my traffic or earnings either, and I have started moving hubs to my blog instead, - sadly none of these things have helped my income!

          I know I am a good writer but I just can't make the money here or on the Internet any more! It is a very depressing picture! And I cant sell Kindle books either because I have tried that.

          If only I had a good old-fashioned job to go to!

          1. IzzyM profile image88
            IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I feel your pain, Bard! I tried all sorts with this account, and nothing has worked so far.

            It will be 12 months since I saw the 90% fall in traffic on this account, next month.

            If there is no change after that, I will be unpublishing hubs one by one, after getting all the copies of them taken off the net, and republishing them elsewhere, or even here on another account.

            I would say that 90% of my hubs currently get no traffic at all from Google, so there is nothing to lose.

            1. janderson99 profile image55
              janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Just a thought on causes based on the analyses I presented above:
              => too many Amazon ads (perhaps 1 per 50 words is too many)
              => Internal RSS  with summaries cause duplication between hubs
              last time!!!

              1. IzzyM profile image88
                IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Amazon ads were further reduced to 1: 100 words, and RSS feeds either removed or reduced to one sentence, which even across a number of hubs cannot be a problem when the majority of hubs are 1000 words and above.

                Links were added, keyword stuffing reduced, spelling mistakes/typos rectified, hubs removed, titles adjusted, summaries added, tags adjusted, extra paragraphs written on the shorter hubs, new photos and videos added, phrases that didn't read well aloud re-written, and I don't think there is anything left to try.

                Still the other search engines like the changes, its only Google that doesn't.

                1. janderson99 profile image55
                  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No worries! Just trying to help. I spent 2 days deleting most of my amazon ads down to (1-3) per page (max) and deleted the entire capsule on 90% of them. My sales type hubs are in a separate sub anyway. Probably an over-reaction, but I only earn pennies from Amazon anyway. Maybe it will stop the Dive Dive Dive, plunge to the sandy bottom! 
                  Its so annoying not to know what works! I wish HP would do some stats analysis - they have the data, the staff and it is in their own interest I would have thought.
                  PS I hope your theory of  12 months purgatory in the sandbox is true and you pop up out of it shortly. Times Up!

                2. Bard of Ely profile image82
                  Bard of Elyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I never made anything with Amazon here, though other people reported that they did well with it. So I stopped adding Amazon ads and only using eBay but I still have some Amazon ads on hubs I haven't gone through. Maybe I should get rid of all of them? It is very time consuming though going through each hub to check!

                  1. IzzyM profile image88
                    IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Leave them. It seems to me your account is in the same position as mine. Google hates it for some reason and overlooks your work in the SERPS.

                    Traffic may come back one day, who knows? However, as I wrote about another 100 hubs on my account after getting sandboxed/slapped, I can tell you that there is no way out.

                    Google simply ignores any newer work I publish.

                    Take this hub for example. - http://hub.me/aca6M

                    I wrote this because I wanted to know myself, and there was simply no other site that gave a complete listing - there might be now, I am probably copied all over the place..

                    It took me hours and hours to research, and days to write.

                    It was published on the 8th of January, 2012, and has had 20 Google views since then.

                    That was the turning point for me, and I then realised that nothing I did would bring that traffic to this account, and so I started new subdomains, some of which are proving to be very successful.

                    And that is it really.

                    Leave your current slapped accounts and start again, using the SEO knowledge you have learned since you started writing here.

                    It is simply not true that works needs to be published for months before it sees any level of traffic. Using the information to be found in the Learning Center allowed me to write my most successful hub to date.

                    One I published last Saturday has had nearly 10,000 views already - Google views at that.

                    My next new sub will be a marketing one that aims for Amazon sales. This account used to do really well for Amazon, and fear over whether or not the affiliate ads were pulling down subs has prevented me from writing new ones on new accounts, but I have just got to experiment and see whether a dedicated affiliate sales subdomain can still work.

                    1. Bard of Ely profile image82
                      Bard of Elyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      I assume you mean set up again here?

                      btw that link doesn't work but brought me to "401 That page does not exist."

                      1. IzzyM profile image88
                        IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I changed the url to the shortened version.See if that will work now smile

                        Yes set up again with a new subdomain. New subs are getting even more love than old ones did, presumably because of the freshness factor, but who knows?

                        If, or when, the traffic comes back to your existing account you'll be all well and good. Until then, IMO you are flagging a dead horse trying to fix the account, especially when none of us knows what is wrong in the first place.

                        1. Bard of Ely profile image82
                          Bard of Elyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                          Thanks for the advice, Izzy! If I do set up again here though I will have to decide on what niche I am focusing on. I am just wondering it it would make sense to move hubs from my old account in to a new one? Or would Google know they were part of the old site and still penalise them?

          2. paradigmsearch profile image61
            paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!

        17. profile image0
          Arlene V. Pomaposted 11 years ago

          Bard of Ely, I certainly feel your pain.  I had a very hard time retiring early because of a Comp injury.  I took some writing classes and got back to my writing around 2010.  My years of "good old-fashioned" writing jobs for 13 years has helped fund my retirement at 44.  I first started with Helium.com and got a 7-month content mill assignment, and it surprised me how much writers and editors were willing to work for.  Pennies!  Then the editors were accepting $5 for each 500-word piece.  Not only that, they relied on this income to feed their families and heat their houses.  I realized back then not to depend on these writing jobs because you are always open for anyone to screw you.  I walked away from my past two content mill jobs.  Otherwise, I would have been fired for telling them where they could stick their $2 payments (which included revisions).  I will NEVER work another content mill job again.  I realize, because of my situation, I can be selective.  And I am fully aware that others have no choice.  I feel it is an extreme insult to writers and editors with the background and training to resort to work that does not pay them squat.  I could make more money recycling hubby's beer bottles and soda cans in an hour than I do a month of online writing.  I'm glad I wrote for a living "back then."  I may be a dinosaur online, but in real life, I'm living without bowing to some Google god.

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Arlene, I think some of that is because writers have a tendency to be secretive about their pay. One of the reason I wanted to share openly on HP was so that others would get an idea of what could be made... when my income crashed I was honest about that, too.

            My best paying client pays me $60 for 450 words, no images. The articles take me about 1/2 hour all together to write and turn in for edits.
            Another client pays me $20 for 150 words and 30 for 500 words - the 150 word articles take about 10 minutes and the longer ones probably 30 minutes.... no images required
            Another client pays 25 for 500 words with images
            Honestly, a new writer should not work for less than 15-20 an hour and they need to figure out how much time they are putting in for research, writing, and submitting for editing. Why be happy about an assignment that pays less than minimum wage? Freelance writing is stressful.. If I was only paid minimum wage or less I would quit and get a job at Wal-Mart.
            That's my 2cents.

        18. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

          I appreciate the thoughtful and helpful posts here from many of our most experienced Hubbers.  I truly hope everyone hangs in and stays with it here; you all have outstanding content, and in the end, that will (I believe) win out. This has been a very interesting thread to read and follow.  Thanks, everyone.

        19. wabond profile image65
          wabondposted 11 years ago

          I suppose to be realistic about it all, we have to realize that, "he who pays the piper calls the tune."  Which means Google wasn't making enough money from Hubpages and so downgrade them, and promoted web-site that were making them more money.

          1. IzzyM profile image88
            IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            No that isn't true.

            It is easy to believe that is what happened when so many older account have been hit, but new accounts can and do still do well.

            That is not to say they won't get slapped anytime soon, but if they do it begins to look like a manual slap and not an algo one, which Google deny doing.

        20. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

          @Izzy - I read your amazing hub on sharks; it's incredibly well-researched, great photos, and excellent in every way. I just don't get it - as I've said in other threads, I'm still very new to online writing (in every sense - the logistics and technical elements as well as the frustration of trying to unravel the meaning behind Google's latest whims).  When a hub as good as that one can get ignored by Google, it floors me. 

          I agree with what you said on another thread that those of us who are good writers but not experts at gaming the system are at a disadvantage.  It's sad (scandalous, even) that the Internet is now the primary source of information for many people, but it is increasingly dominated by poorly written or spun content.   

          You mentioned you've now created additional subdomains here - I hope you'll let us know how they're styled so we can follow?

          1. IzzyM profile image88
            IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you, I am expecting that url to get removed as being self-promotional, but it wasn't intended to be. It was to show that it is possible to write a really comprehensive hub and still get ignored by Google if your subdomain is slapped/sandboxed.

            As I'm sure a few forum posters know, one of my new subdomains is extensively linked through that hub. It gets great traffic, but not a lot of earnings as the topic is not really advertiser-friendly. But I am thoroughly enjoying writing on the subject matter, so will keep going.

            I also have a blog with the same name, so if the HP account gets slapped, I'll just transfer the hubs over to the blog, or perhaps to a brand-new domain.

            Meanwhile, no-one else can send me so much traffic and so quickly as Hubpages, which just goes to show this site is still an extremely powerful platform.

            1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
              Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It's comforting to know that even those of you who are longtime Hubbers still see strength in the site. It's always (in my short time here) seemed that way to me, but reading the concerns of longterm Hubbers each time Google does a new trick can be scary. I started here with the plan to see how it works after at least two years of learning the online ropes and building content.

              At some point, I will probably start another account (or two) and move content such as poetry or essays - those don't fit this account, and are among the things I wrote early on when feeling my way through.  I'd be interested in your take on how having multiple accounts has worked for you?

              Guess I also need to venture into blogging and a stand-alone website.  And ebooks. Now I need a nap - got tired just thinking of it all!

        21. Living Well Now profile image59
          Living Well Nowposted 11 years ago

          @Izzy - I'm glad you're getting more traffic. You're right, the root domain of HubPages can draw a lot of Google traffic and it helps a hub place higher in the SERP. That's why Wikipedia pages rank high in SERPs even if they are rarely cited. Wikipedia also a has a strong internal and external linking system and is usually properly sourced.

          There is a British shark hub similar to yours that ranks higher in search for the phrase "british sharks". Most of the photos are correctly attributed and are CC BY-SA. While some of your photos are royalty free, there's the question of whether they can be used for commercial purposes. Other photos, like the basking shark, while attributed, appear to be copyrighted. Ditto for the common skate photo from treehugger.com.

        22. Alternative Prime profile image59
          Alternative Primeposted 11 years ago

          Is this discussion open to an honest assessment and opinion from a totally different perspective delivered by a non-biased individual who will spare everyone all the "Your so fantastic I model my life after you" fluff? -

          Perhaps a view from a completely different angle is overdue in this longstanding, seemingly arduous discussion which always produces more questions verses concrete, validated answers -

          Everyone here seems to subscribe to the assumption which is centered exclusively on an unsubstantiated conclusion that the massive flowing streams of traffic funneled to specific members in the past, was somehow the justified norm, an unusually generous trend which was to remain undisturbed or un-interrupted forever unto eternity - However, in reality, it appears as if this abnormally large gift turned out to be unjustified therefore unsustainable -

          Has anyone considered the distinct possibility that the excessively robust flow of visitors which had been swiftly streaming unto certain domains, more specifically those hosted by "Success Story Individuals", many of which had in the past entertained thousands of page views per day, might have just been the result of fleeting runaway anomalies which somehow escaped malfunctioning radar detection? Randomly selected "Hubs" or "Hubbers" who were mistakenly introduced to, and beneficiaries of, an artificial feed of excessive traffic reception? And now, subsequent to the detection and repair of the malfunction, which had caused the abnormally high traffic flow, HP and said "Success Story" beneficiaries of the past, are simply experiencing a natural downward adjustment or correction back to more realistic, justified traffic levels? -

          Even though I feel for them and acknowledge the difficulties of learning how to adjust to fluidly changing circumstances, I'm confident even the individuals featured within the "Success Stories" segment would agree, their Hubs are no more extraordinary as compared to the work of many other members who have not received such generously allocated views  - At least they are not so far superior in either aesthetics, cosmetics, nor underlying substance that they deserve such a premium flow of traffic equaling 17,000 views per day thereby allowing the authors / creators to become the distinct beneficiaries of reaping such an unbalanced income stream as compared to other members -

          Perhaps the emotional, psychological, and financial management of what could be perceived as "Unrealistic" expectations, which in my opinion would include such lofty expectations of 17,000 page views per day is in order -

          Barring any questionable activity performed by members who are affected, which I have no specific knowledge of, it's certainly something to consider -

          1. profile image0
            Marye Audetposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Possibly. I am certainly open to that... It is hard to figure though, since one of my blogs is growing exponentially and getting well over 225K views a month... the others are still somewhat on the back burner.

            I realize that many members of Hub Pages feel that the featured members were supercilious; however I don't believe any of our us felt that we were exceptional word-craftsmen, nor were we cavalier in our attitudes. Much of the accolades, if not all, that were so lavishly bestowed came from other members of HP.

            Considering entire networks have diminished traffic and/or become insolvent, and that their writers and editors have had long term contracts terminated without warning, I would tentatively conjecture that, rather than efficacious writers being mediocre the current traffic slump of some has more to do with using the old SEO techniques that were lauded five years ago and not staying au currant with the evolution of SEO.

            Concurrently the economic woes of much of society have stealthily crept into the cyber-world so slowly that they went unnoticed until the full impact seemed to hit with violent abruptness. Truthfully, as much as we would like to believe that the economy is rising out of the ashes, advertisers are paying less CPC and CPM than before. My personal theory is that is it a juxtaposition of a wave of people trying to make money on the Internet (economics 101... demand drives cost) and the need of the general public to be much more conservative with their money resulting in less interest in ads and online spending.

            I do not believe in the theory of "leveling the playing field" . The playing field will always have some that are more successful than others due to a variety of reasons. To artificially level it in order to make everyone equal does nothing more than create despondency and slovenly work. Those who work hard, do their best, and consistently produce, in ANY endeavor, will find some level of success. Those who are blessed with innate talent will succeed a little easier and maybe a little more.

            I can't sing. Never have been able to, as much as I'd love to. My oldest daughter sings operatic soprano. Should I be allowed to lead praise and worship at church because she does? The building would empty in nano-seconds. However, there are times that she can't perform for reasons beyond her control as well as issues that she created herself. Ebb and flow is part of existence.

            I am not the best at what I do, and I am not the worst. I merely do my best and compete with myself rather than others.

            I do take exception to the comment that you are providing an "honest assessment from an unbiased individual". Everyone has a bias of some sort and the second part of your introductory sentence does  give us some premonition as to yours.

            P.S. 17,000 page views a day over a body of work is quite average, although perhaps not on HP. Take a look at the recent success of Pioneer Woman, a food blogger that ended up with her own TV show and was easily garnering over 1 million page views a month... since I am also a food writer of some success it is tempting for me to compare my work to hers and feel that her flowing streams of traffic are the "result of fleeting runaway anomalies which somehow escaped malfunctioning radar detection."

            I prefer to read her site, attempt to learn from what she does, and improve my own site by adjusting and implementing the techniques to fit my own needs and style.

            1. Living Well Now profile image59
              Living Well Nowposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The shift to mobile platforms has certainly affected advertising revenue. Coupled with Google's shift to social signals and away from backlinks, the crème de la crème should rise to the top. Hubs about high CPC keywords like mesothelioma written by retired teachers and college students probably won't make rank high in SERPs no matter how well-written they are.

              Spot on. The influx of the underemployed and unemployed into the world of online writing is leaving its mark.

              I'm guessing most of the HP traffic you lost was organic and much of it was from Google, not referrals from HP. Kudos for your blog and style. big_smile

          2. Blake Flannery profile image93
            Blake Flanneryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            As one of the "Success Stories" people who hardly ever posts on forums.  I have to agree with what you said.  My hubs aren't any better than others who put in hours of work.  Things are definitely getting much more difficult for me, but I haven't quit.  I'm slowly fixing some of my issues to improve user experience, but it's a slow process and I don't expect a quick spike of a recovery.

            I have noticed that some of my hubs do have some sort of penalty or something associated that no longer allows me to rank for keyword phrases that are short and bring the most traffic.  If 5 keywords were bringing me most traffic at the peak of my good traffic, it's as if google just said "o.k. he's not going to rank at all for these two broad keywords any more."  So I have retained high rankings for some keywords while losing rankings for others that should still be relevant.  It seems that my long tail keywords are holding strong while shorter keywords are doing poorly.  For example, my "bullying types" hub was a test to see if I could rank for a two word phrase.  So far, it's not doing well, so I will likely be targeting more long tail specific phrases such as "what is cyberbullying?" or "types of cyberbullying,"  Which will be fine, because I can link to those hubs from my "bullying types" hub.  It's the flagship hub idea, the only difference is that the broad keyword termed hub may not do as well as the specific long tail phrased hubs any longer.

        23. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

          I agree with what Marye is saying.  Her volume of traffic and history of success speaks to her talent for publishing hubs that are well-written, niche-targeted, and very readable in every way.  She has thousands of followers (no accident), and many of the other success stories here have similar histories.  I suspect there's some sort of odd element to Panda or Penguin that needlessly and inappropriately altered the rankings or traffic flow for these very accomplished Hubbers.  And the same thing happened for many other sites of all types. 

          At any rate, I personally do not believe the success of these Hubbers was a fluke or an accident. And I sincerely hope the search engine tweakings eventually get corrected so that spun or copied content no longer ranks higher than valuable, informative content generated by good writers, as has been spotted by a few who are trying to analyze the crazy ups and downs Google has engineered.

          1. Alternative Prime profile image59
            Alternative Primeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Just a simple question which pertains to your comment if I may Marcy -

            Why are all past, present, and presumably future "Google Adjustments" automatically categorized here at HP as Mal-Intended offenses toward the information gathering public? The predominant egocentric, self aggrandizing attitude around here suggests that somehow civilization will collapse unless HP and a few members control information dissemination -

            In reality, maybe search had been, and currently is working diligently in a concerted effort to bring the very best possible experiences to international users, and by doing so, they have achieved an appropriate re-alignment which allows the exemplary entries written by authoritative creators to surface above all others - In a genuine attempt to serve the public interest, don't you think the best possible experiences should be highlighted and promoted by search mechanisms even if that means a Hubpages entry did not make the cut? -

            Loyalty to a writing platform such as HP to gain accolades and possibly good grace is one thing, a burning self serving desire to satisfy excessively indulgent tendencies, even if that means satisfaction of these desires should transpire at the expense of educating and delivering top quality experiences to the general public, is quite another -

            1. Marisa Wright profile image87
              Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I hear what you are saying.   The internet all writers to have their work published.  In our "me" society, that's seen as a good thing, but the downside is that the flood of amateurish rubbish drowns out the quality writing.  Would-be writers are notoriously bad at judging the quality of their own work - before the internet, a whole industry (vanity publishing) existed to cater for the thousands of writers who wrote dreadful novels which they thought were great.  And I could name a couple of former Hubbers who prided themselves on their "natural ability" to write, who actually just had a bad case of verbal diarrhea. Not to mention the millions of non-writers who create content purely as a means to an end, often with a poor command of English.

              Personally, I think it would be great if Google could filter out all that rubbish - even if my own writing was a casualty.  But they can't.  Every time I do a Google search, it seems to me that Panda and all its related updates have made matters worse, not better.  More and more, I find myself having to go to the second and third pages of search results to find a quality answer to my question.  That's why it's so frustrating.

              1. Alternative Prime profile image59
                Alternative Primeposted 11 years agoin reply to this


                I understand your concerns and overall assessment, but in all honesty, I have no problems finding exactly what I need in a timely manner when utilizing information retrieval mechanisms and I would assume I'm not alone - Various versions and perspectives on the relevant topic which are submitted by a wealth of different sites are typically placed on page 1 at finger tip reach - The vast majority of entries include acceptable grammar and in-depth analysis authored by highly credible individuals or entities -

                I conduct extensive research in just about every category imaginable for myself and high profile clients, and always find what l need in relatively short order without exerting excessive energy -

        24. Alternative Prime profile image59
          Alternative Primeposted 11 years ago

          P.S. Marcy - I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment that Marye or any of the other "Success Story" individuals write and craft fine entries, however, in my opinion, I do not think the material published by these individuals is of such superior quality as to justify such an incredibly disproportionate monetary windfall verses their peers, of which there are reportedly thousands -

          1. Bard of Ely profile image82
            Bard of Elyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Alternative Prime, I never made it into the high-earners here but my money was increasing until Google made the changes and it has been downhill ever since. I believe I have some very good quality hubs and as a writer have been accepted for publication offline by a number of magazines and newspapers. I also have a book published. However, I do not make the grade with Google any longer.

            1. jacharless profile image78
              jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              This is one certain reason every digital writer, big or small, new or seasoned, should pay attention and align themselves with "YingBook". Bing, now the social search, driving the largest social board; Yahoo who's search is Bing driven, offer more in the way of visitation, than the fractal Goo. A three-way street leading in one direction.

              Yes, I accept that Goo, via DoubleClick, controls a vast degree of revenue option -especially here on HP. Even the HP ad system is DoubleClick connected, plus a few independents.

              Before goading your hubs themselves, gently or forcefully, to satisfy the not-so-jolly Giant, consider what the other(s) offer. There is a larger playing field available to everyone. A field untouched, yet ripe for the picking. One that has very good vines growing very good wines -that took years to grow; are much older/more seasoned than Goo and  pruning themselves to make room for many.


          2. janderson99 profile image55
            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Alternative Prime - how about some answers?
            => So what did they do in 2011 to be successful, if they weren't superior writers?
            => What did Google change that made them unsuccessful in late 2011?
            => What can they do now to be successful again?
            => What can other authors do to avoid suffering the same fate?

            1. Alternative Prime profile image59
              Alternative Primeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              In my opinion janderson99. your questions are irrelevant -

              My original point was centered on the mere suggestion that the astronomical, excessively generous number of 17,000 views per day, which was apparently achieved in previous months until adjusted, was an anomaly, unfortunately for marye, the possible result of a mistake or malfunction of the system, and now, she and others are experiencing a natural corrective phase -

              1. janderson99 profile image55
                janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Interesting theory - I think there are real reasons, rather than a mistake or malfunction of the system (HP or Google?) since the changes occurred over a couple of months and coincided with a series of Panda Squats. As the stats below show last month 347 hubs got 10,000+ views.

          3. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Seems to me that your concept of the "peers" of the likes of Marye, Izzy, Habee and a few others that have been very successful is a little skewed.  Yes, they have peers right here on HP, but not many.  You can find them, though:

            Search HP for writers that consistently write hubs that flow well, with correct grammar and spelling and are visually appealing.  Discard all others.

            Discard all those that do not typically and consistently write on topics that people are searching for. 

            Now discard all those that do not understand and use the concept of keywords on a consistent basis.

            If a hubber does not continually produce hubs averaging near 1000 words, or more. discard them.  Even 500 word hubs are on the short side for real success, and a portfolio of them isn't likely to reach high income levels on the average.

            Further eliminate all those that have not written hubs numbering nearly 1000.

            What you have left are the "peers" you speak of, and there aren't thousands.  There aren't even hundreds.  Nor did the income of the ones google has slapped ever outpace that of their "peers"; on the contrary those slapped hubbers are now at the bottom of the income pile, down from a reasonable and attainable income based on what their peers earn.

            1. Alternative Prime profile image59
              Alternative Primeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I agree with certain aspects of your assessment, particularly the fact that there is unfortunately an abundance of junk floating out of the HP platform - sub-par material which desperately needs to be cleaned up for this site to achieve long term success - This is one reason why HP and all members should look into the proverbial mirror before casting blame on any other individual and or entity - The HP name is still embossed within, and closely linked to each and every page launched from this location - Something to keep in mind -

              Moreover, if there are so few "Success Story Peers" here on HP who can produce good quality works, then how could you possibly argue with the fact that the HP brand, reputation, and or presence should not be demoted accordingly? - Advertised numbers suggest there are roughly 200,000 active members on HP, and you claim within this extremely large pool of talent, there are very few, or even a negligible number of "Success Story" peers? 200,000 members strong and according to your calculations only a handful have adequate ability? I can list at least 20 without strain and even more with a moderate amount of research -

              Your a better sole than I wilderness, even I don't criticize nor scrutinize HP to that extreme, and if your conclusions are indeed accurate, the issues to address are even more serious than even I had previously anticipated -

              So now, you are apparently asserting the difference between a $4,000 monthly income stream and a $10.00 monthly income stream is a few spelling or grammatical errors coupled with the publishing of more Hubs? - Basic mathmatical calculations tend to disprove the "Volume" argument  -

              I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive when I ask legitimate, relevant questions, and in this case, my only assertion is the following -

              Extraordinary income deserves extraordinary evidence for justification, and I believe all attempts to this point have fallen significantly short -

              1. janderson99 profile image55
                janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Latest stats => see hubpages.com/stats
                    Published Hubs: 1,226,202
                    Forum Posts: 2,144,771
                    Total Users: 2,239,763
                    Published Users: 188,066
                    Hubs with 10,000+ Hub views in the last month: 347
                    Hubs with 1,000+ Hub views in the last month: 7,976
                    Hubs with 100+ Hub views in the last month: 69,987
                    Hubs with 10+ Hub views in the last month: 346,774

                1. jacharless profile image78
                  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The ratio does not add up. 8% is a very low margin.

                  1. janderson99 profile image55
                    janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    not sure what you mean by 'margin' and 'ratio'

                    1. jacharless profile image78
                      jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      2,239,763 Users versus 188,066 Published Users.
                      Which means only 8% of register users are publishing.
                      FB & TW have at least  47% link/post average by registered Users.

                      1. janderson99 profile image55
                        janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Why would Google penalise if only 8% of subs have a fresh hub each month?

                        1. jacharless profile image78
                          jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                          But they do not.
                          2,239,763 Users = 2,239,763 Sub Domains or folders.

                          1,226,202 published articles / 188,066  Users = 6.5 Hubs average.
                          Of that 6.5 only 1 is considered Evergreen. One Hubber I know has just recently passed 1000 hubs. If others followed suit, then only 188 Hubbers determine the sum of quantified content...

              2. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I'll try again.  You are referring to the very elite of HP as far as earnings go, and wonder why they make so much more than others do.

                It is not always a matter of how well they can write.  Those that don't make as much don't have the number of hubs.  Or maybe they can write super hubs but often get sidetracked into a quick rant about their landlord; the top earners have a business and don't do that kind of thing.  Possibly they write absolutely great hubs - about something no one searches for - top earners won't waste their time as that time is what pays the bills.

                It's all these things put together (and more) that make a top earner - the quality of the hub is only one facet.  That's also why the peer group is so small - there are very few people that make a living out of online writing and that's the only way to make that kind of money.  It won't come from a few hours a week, and it won't come from writing whatever you want to, regardless of how well it is written.  It comes from doing all the things right, coupled with lots of work, and that is the justification you're missing.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image86
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I think you hit it right on the head.  As time has progressed, I've come to realize that just writing good hubs isn't enough.  There are so many other things that are involved that it makes my head swim.  As a result, I'm currently going through every single hub as best I can to do "the other stuff".  I got whacked by Panda once, and I don't want it to happen again.

                  The funny thing is that by going back and doing this, I'm now seeing tons of things I did wrong.  I was too "new" to know how to do them, and still haven't mastered all of them, but reworking my hubs has really been an eye opener.

        25. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

          I think you stated it very well, Wilderness. I'm not entirely convinced that good quality is the only thing Google's engines search out; they're in the business of making money.  I do think, however, that high-quality content can suffer if Google somehow factors in all the content of a site rather than just one subdomain being screened and filtered.  If that is happening, we are all suffering. This site allows anyone to publish, without any sort of pre-screening process.  As anyone going through the Hopper or viewing the newest hubs on the site can see, there's a vast contrast in quality.  I'm curious as to whether Google truly views each account uniquely, or as part of the whole. 

          From what I can tell, subdomains were initiated because Panda didn't parse out each writer's work and rank it on its own merits?  What if subsequent changes now rank each hub as part of the entire site to some degree, even with subdomains?

          1. janderson99 profile image55
            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            My theory on this is that the sub-domains worked, but only partially because HP retained its directory structure through the categories etc.  This stopped the subs becoming truly independent. This provided a linking system that potentially penalises the good via the poor quality hubs - See Paul E's Hub on this (Webmaster Tools Notification for Hosting Providers) and the letter HP received from Google. If HP dumped the 'hard-coded' links via the directory it would make the subs truly independent (in my opinion). The functionality of the directory could be replaced by searches. If HP could tighten up the quality of the 'related hubs' links this would help as well.  Just a theory - only HP would know about its validity and other possibilities. No recent update on the outcome of the response to the letter. The timing of the traffic surge in Sept-Oct 2011 which coincides with he subs launch, and the plunge in late 2011 as the directory structure was implemented on HP via the site map is compelling. Just a theory - only HP can provide evidence as to whether it is true or not.

            I'm for truly independent subs!!

          2. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Google is certainly in the business of making money. That means it will do whatever it needs to stay number one in search. And satisfying searchers is the way to stay number one.

            If Hubpages and the other content farms satisfied searchers well enough, Google would have no reason to tweak its algos to kick us down the SERPs.

            So frankly, understanding searcher's needs and producing quality content is pretty much everything.

          3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image86
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yahoo stopped allowing people to just publish and became so strict that now their best writers (and much of their original staffers) are leaving the site because nobody knows what they want and articles are being dismissed like crazy.

            I think HPs idea was to have us weed each other's work out for them by reporting the rule breakers, etc.  I don't think we do enough of that, and I think you are right, it's hurting all of us.  I just cringe when I see some of the articles people are submitting.

            Mine aren't perfect, for sure, but at least my structure is correct and I don't use vulgar language.

        26. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image86
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

          I agree with you, Janderson - if the site links other Hubbers' material to our subdomains without filtering and screening for quality, it could affect our own rankings. I've even seen links for 'related' hubs that were not really related but perhaps had similar words in the title. That's the risk at play if this hubs are selected through some automated process. Even if the process ties you to hubs in the same category, it doesn't guarantee they're appropriate, or of good quality,

          1. janderson99 profile image55
            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The links I am talking about, apart from the 'related links', are the hard wired ones through the topics e.g. http://hubpages.com/topics/autos/buying … d-cars/214 all of these 214 hubs are linked together via the directory - good and bad, related or not. This topic page is a page of links that is built into the sitemap for HP. There's pages for latest, hot, best etc. - all unrelated. This directory structure could be replaced by a dynamic search for the hubs. That's my theory - it my be rubbish but I think it stops the subs being independent. The other model would be to have a flat structure based on the subs which were only linked to hubpages.com, not to each other. Topics could be delivered via searches over the entire site. What do others think???

        27. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 11 years ago

          What amazes me in this thread, is just how much thought people are giving to the realities of making a living online.

          The quality of debate and the capacity to analyse issues is really impressive compared to a year or two ago.

          I will put this down partly to Panda (think or die) but I reckon the Learning Center and Apprenticeship program are really having an impact.

          Hubpages is a way from dead yet.

          Anyway, that is enough of the congratulatory stuff.

          1. PaulGoodman67 profile image96
            PaulGoodman67posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I think it is because the more experienced and previously successful people are suffering and there are more of them in the forums now.  When HP is going well, I think the forums are dominated by beginners with some of the basic questions that we all wondered about when we joined up.  The 'success stories' seem to be being hit harder by Google than the newbies nowadays.  That's my theory/impression anyway.

            1. David 470 profile image81
              David 470posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              This does seem to be the case, huh?.

              It's disappointing to see veterans that were making full-time income or very close to it at least take major hits because it puts fear in the beginners.

              I consider myself an intermediate on HubPages, but I took a hit by the Google Alg, earlier this year, but never fully recovered. I hope this fall income increases significantly because that seems to be the best time for me. Well, the late summer and fall is...


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