Vote: no for same sex marriage

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Herald Dailyposted 16 years ago
I haven't been commenting on a lot of threads here in the forums because I'm new but the only thought that came to mind when I read the title was, "Why is it even my business?"

As long as it's not causing any harm to others, do we (as a society) really need to care?

I'm not trying to be ignorant, I meant that as a real question. If there is something I've missed in my perspective, I'm very open to hearing what it is.
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are absolutely write. But there are some self righteous people out there that feel it is their responsibility to "shield" the world from things they feel are "wrong". It is our responsibility to speak out when we see injustice. Ultimately it is for the greater good. I truly feel the more we teach tolerance and understanding, over time, this discussion will no longer be necessary.
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  Herald Dailyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Intolerance makes me a bit nervous. If people decide they're tired of going after other groups because they disagree with their life choices, is it just a matter of time before my love of good wine or having a cat for a pet come under attack?
  
  I'm not paranoid, I just don't understand people sometimes.
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The far right was dealt a crushing blow in the last election. Now all that is left for them are these cultural and personal issues, but even there they are losing ground. More and more people are getting sick of having others take their personal inventory without invitation, and so the same gay rights issue that scared people into voting Republican eight years back is now scaring people into becoming a bit more tolerant today, because they can see the writing on the wall. As you say, if gay marriage is a big scary deal today, your pet kitty and your wine cellar could be on the hit list tomorrow.
  
  I think most people 'get' that now.
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I guess to existent you have a point. But then i look at my own life and realize it would not be possible if people did not learn to accept people for people. I am a biracial child, Black and Japanese, and my children's father is white. We would not be able to live the life we have 50 years ago. I would never be able to walk down the street arm and arm with my fiance. Also as an African-American and a female I have liberties available to me now that I would have never had so many years ago.
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  Herald Dailyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's wonderful! Imagine how free everyone will feel 50 years from now if we all just tend to our own lives and leave others to take care of theirs, rather than insisting that everyone live one way only.
  
  When I make that statement, I mean it in the context of passing judgement on other people's personal lives, not that they should have a free-for-all to hurt others.
  
  I am not gay, so same sex marriages does not affect me directly, but I have some friends who are and their intimate preferences between consenting adults have no bearing on my life or my fondness for the kind of people that they are. It makes no difference and it's none of my business how they conduct themselves behind closed doors.
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calebdposted 16 years ago
Marriage is a social institution. Say religion all you want but that doesn't take away from the fact that all cultures had marriage to reinforce their social structure. One of the underpinnings of a social institution is legal backing within the society's confines. There have been feudal marriages and Levirate marriages and all other kinds. If you think a religious institution was anything more than a backdrop for those or that religion was what gave the process value, then I think you're being ludicrous. Of course, government promotes marriage. You can't extricate the two. If, somehow, you are able to cite a culture where marriage offered only religious benefits but had no social or legal backing, then you can claim they're separate but to my knowledge, such a system does not exist.

This isn't me stating my belief loudly in order to believe it myself. It's a phenomenon that has volumes of research behind it, considering how deep its roots go. I'm all for government removing itself from the issue but to say ahh, leave it for the religious isn't a solution in my view because it's never been only for the religious. You have simply stated "Marriage is a religious institution" as if that were without doubt, providing no evidence.
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm wrong and you are right. I apologize.
  
  I don't see that it is beneficial however, and it seems to me that it does start with religion, that the social backing of the institution originates in the religious authority of whatever culture sanctions it. For example, feudal marriages, though they might on the surface seem to have nothing directly to do with religion had their basis in the Church and in male authority and property rights. So feudal society sanctioned that, promoted it, had an interest, but that didn't make the institution a positive for all involved.
  
  In a secular society I don't see a place for it. The U.S. is a secular society. We have religions here, lots of them, but Church and state are separated. This is new historically. We don't have a single religious view here and we've no reason to promote a Judeo-Christian institution that doesn't even hold up very well for the people who choose it.
  
  But I apologize for being crappy. Thank you for clarifying your point.
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have always had issues with the whole separation of church and state thing. I mean lets take a look at it. This country was founded with Christian principles in mind. And I am not quiet sure but I thought that the idea of separation of church and state was that there was not national church. I truly believe that the founding fathers had every intent of having christian principles and lessons in school. I mean how many times is God mentioned in political text. When your sworn in during a court testimony you swear on the bible. Now does that really sound like separation of church and state? But that's not the point of this thread. And I apologize for going off in left field.
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No, the separation of Church and State means no state messing in the Church and no Church principles promoted by the State. The U.S. is not a Christian nation. Thomas Jefferson actually rewrote the New Testament to take God out of it, that's how irritated he was with Christianity. It's a weird exercise, but he did do that.
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  A good point. I am not a Christian or anything but I just do not see how we separate church and state in one nation under god. But whatever. You make really great points. and i enjoy reading them
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me pgrundy but I would like you to see you back up your claim that "Thomas Jefferson actually rewrote the New Testament to take God out of it".
  
  Here's a link to the Jefferson Bible.
  http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/
  
  If you scroll down to number 8, and compare verse 27 in both Teachings and Parables to the Unrevised KJV text you will see they both read "27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
  
  This quote is taken directly from the New Testament from three of the four Gospels, Luke chapter 10, Matthew chapter 22 and Mark chapter 12.
  
  Jefferson did not take God out of his rewrite of the New Testament at all. Although he must have overlooked the third last verse in the last chapter of the last book of the Bible.
  
  And for you saying the "U.S. is not a Christian nation" you should recite your Pledge of Allegiance to the United States flag. Here I'll quote it for you.
  
  Christianity was the predominate religion of the early Republic of the United States.
  
  This just goes to show that you can't believe everything that you read online.
  
  Mike
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The 'under God' part was put in later with lots of argument and dissent. I'll have to research the Jefferson Bible. I just saw it recently on some History Channel show about the founding fathers. The larger point I was trying to make is that they were NOT founding a Christian nation and they were very clear about that.
  
  Here is a direct quote from a letter written by Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, about the separation of Church and State that he saw as essential to American government:
  
  "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
  
  In other words, religion is personal and private. Each person has a right to his or her own beliefs, but the U.S. government has no right to make laws 'respecting an establishment of religion', including the Christian religion.
  
  This is a fundamental principle of American democracy and is stated clearly in the first Amendment to the Constitution.
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You should read this pgrundy, Original Intent and the First Amendment.
  Quotes from it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So - what you are saying is that god is a purely christian thing. Right?
  
  The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a God
  Zeus is not a god.
  Allah is not a god.
  
  One Nation UNDER GOD - is one particular god and they were too dumb to specify which one they were talking about.
  
  Get a life dude
  
  Which just goes to show you cannot believe a word a religionist says ..........
  
  Ramen.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The belief and faith it's our choice; and god left that for us as test for us in this short life to believe in Him or not; and this is state in all holy books from God; bible, Torah and Quran.
  So, i have my belief; you have your belief and God will judge between us; it's just our choice; and you have to choose.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  mohamedhmm you don't get it do you? Your god is not going to be judging me.Not as allah or any other fella. I would not even believe in the flying spaghetti monster if I wasn't a desciple of the almighty Mark knowles.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  but God will judge us in this...but it will be so late for you...
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It is never too late to stop abusing other peoples beliefs by imposing your god on them. Your god is a pitiful reflection of the human condition.
  I don't worship your spiteful little murdering god no matter what you name it.
  Have you never wondered why your invisible entity would need to be worshipped on fear of death?
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. I hope I am right when I believe God is a God of love
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  bgpappaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  For the record, the pledge of allegiance wasn't around at the founding of the country but was written in 1892 and the "under god" language wasn't added until 1954.
  
  Yes, Christianity was predominate, but that doesn't mean it is a Christian Country. Why else would they allow all other religions, and no religion?
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The odd thing is, that the Church of England is an established church, and the Queen is the head of it. And yet, religion has a much smaller place in national and political life than it does in the USA.
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mohamedhmmposted 16 years ago
There is no argue about freedom and rights, every body free to do whatever he likes within human rights.
But, all of you are missing the point; there is no doubt about marriage between man and woman; and no-one ask government for legalize it because it's our life law for continuous; but marriage must not be between same sex; and same sex people shouldn't ask government to legalize it; if it's legal why same sex people demand government authority and this is what are happening now - and i am against that request because by our life practices and experience it's not legal or necessary for life- even animals knew this better than us, we never see male animal has sex with another male or female animal has sex with same; we need to wake up and open our mind and do not ask for something doesn't make sense or approve something without thinking in short term and long term of life .
OK; people i want one of you; the most smart one if there is one could answer this question: what would be happened for our life if every one follow same sex marriage; man with man, woman with woman and everyone is happy; then, what are the results of that same sex marriage- if any-, what will add for our life?
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Great question. And I thank you for being bold enough to continue to engage with those that disagree. Now I ask you to consider this. I know you would never but yourself in this position but use your imagination for a moment. You are a man who has had the same partner for 50 years. Your partner dies. You have NO RIGHTS as their partner because well your not married. What does same sex marriage bring to everyone's life. well the short answer is nothing unless you gay. But isn't that the point that it has nothing to do with you so why are you so concerned? I guess the ultimate question is how does it negatively impact you? From what i can see there is no impact other than the fact that you don't like it. Which is fine you do not have to like everything that everyone does. But where is the harm in same sex marriage to YOU?
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong - you get gay animals.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  not my cats here
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  One of mine is
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  i don't have sick mind either
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sadly, I do, but it is also true. He keeps trying to mount the other male cats. Very confused about his sexuality.
  
  EDIT: Anyway, lovely to talk to such an open-minded person but it is 2.30am here and I must sleep. Better lock my bedroom door to make sure that I don't catch gayness or something.
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  it's not enough! Marry! Quick! A woman! To protect yourself....
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  waynetposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  One of my goldfish is and it has a handbag (ok I lied about that last part)
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  darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It's no wonder. They probably live in fear of a gay bashing.
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  darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I ask you this, will a minority percentage of the population cause the extinction of the human race?
  
  You've outlined a hypothetical situation, one that requires YOU to be homosexual. Can YOU be forced to be gay?
  
  And how's this for a hypothetical situation? What would happen if each person was allowed to live their life as they choose? I'm not talking about lawlessness, or anarchy. Just people minding their own business, living their lives in happiness, without worrying about what others do consensually in their own bedrooms.
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mohamedhmmposted 16 years ago
OK; people i want one of you; the most smart one if there is one could answer this question: what would be happened for our life if every one follow same sex marriage; man with man, woman with woman and everyone is happy; then, what are the results of that same sex marriage- if any-, what will add for our life?
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  Bob Cedarposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is like the argument for legalizing weed, legalizing weed doesn't mean everyone will start smoking. Legalizing gay marriage doesn't mean everyone's gay switch will automatically go to the on position. Society will not crumble. Just people that have the right, will literally have the right.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with your view. Nobody is going to change and those who do have an issue then I wonder how there marriage registration affects them adversely. I wish people grow up (live and let live folks).
  
  Also the whole logic about sex only for procreation isn't justified and even you(OP) craved for emotional attachment in the earlier thread started by you: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/12145
  
  I don't see any reason why those who indulge in same sex relationships should be seen strictly from a physical point of view and also many opposite sex relationships also may not lead to any offspring (especially in couples after certain ages). Now don't tell me that all those marriages which don't lead to offspring should be declared null and void later on.
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's such a good point. Lots of married heterosexual people have no children and they still are married.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  kids by God willing; but, same sex marriage; no way to have kids because there is no god willing in such marriage...
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Are you aware of family planning options (for heterosexual couples) and for same sex couples (females) there are medical options to have a baby. Nowadays in Animals even cloning is done (although not approved for humans but still possible for humans too). I respect your religious views and I will not go into that as then I would be charged with disrespect to the holy books which I certainly don't intend in my postings.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  sex couples (females) there are medical options to have a baby?! How could they get a baby natural? who the father and who the mother? what's about this baby- if they could get one-; you never think about the emotion issues of such this baby in such gay family? you never think about the social issues problems from such this marriage? what's about it's effects on our life especially after long run?
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I was born in outer space and my parents dropped me off here on planet earth, I was adopted by two lesbians and they taught me how to love and seduce women and fornicate till I was sore. I do alright and I even know how to spot other aliens, especially if they look like Freddie Mercury, but I think we come from different planets, perhaps different dimensions too.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I think so...
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  kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Adoption, fostering, surrogacy, and sperm donation are among the options same-sex couples can use to have a child. In this country, one third of lesbian couples and almost one quarter of gay couples already have at least one. Among the organizations that have officially endorsed adoption for same-sex couples are: the American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians.
  
  The vast majorty of studies have found no difference in the physical or social development of children raised by same sex versus opposite sex parents, and of the studies that have found a difference, more studies have shown better social development for children of same-sex couples than worse, perhaps because same sex couples have to put more effort into having a child, so are more likely to enter parenthood committed and prepared for the role than opposite sex couples.
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Think of all the abandoned, abused and unwanted children in the world. Are not parents who care for them--even if they are gay--a much better option than what is allotted to many of these neglected children born to heterosexual couples?
  
  I think so. I think somewhere in there, if you have had any experience in the world at all, you know this, too.
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  pgrundyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone isn't going to run out and marry someone of the same sex just because it becomes legal to do so. That's just not going to ever happen. But if it did, we definitely would see a reduction in the world population, which would be a good thing at least for awhile. I don't think that, people being what they are, population would vanish. Married people cheat as it is. Gay people sometimes have sex with straight people and vice versa. So there would still be plenty of people. People would definitely happen.
  
  But it's silly because everyone isn't going to 'turn gay' the minute gay marriage is legalized. It's not contagious. I mean, smoking is legal but most people don't smoke and never will. (It might not be legal pretty soon though.)
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yup, odd idea. Alcohol is legal, and I don't drink much either. We've had what a mate of mine calls "en-gay-gement" here in the UK for years, and I'm still straight (-:
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  packerpackposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like you are too desperate for an answer to this, that is why you posted this question twice!And yes there is no need any kind of smartness to answer this question of yours.
  
  Your question has already been answered by Bob,countrywomen and pgrundy. So do you have any further question?? Here we are not talking about whether or not same sex marriage should be followed by all, we are discussing whether or not same sex marriage be allowed. You think you are too smart to turn the question?
  
  And I will tell you what, if you think it is wrong then don't follow it, that's all. Don't try to preach.
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pgrundyposted 16 years ago
I worked for a big insurance corporation for many years. The last year that I worked there, they changed their policy to allow the same discounts for gay couples as for married couples. But heterosexual couples in committed relationships could not get those discounts unless they were legally married.

It was so sticky for them that they instructed us we could not ask about it (for fear of lawsuits) but if it came up we had to give the discount, but only to the gay couples. It put us in such an awkward foolish position. And then of course immediately all the (many!) employees who were in relationships that were stable but were not married were angry because they were denied the discounts.

That's why I say, why give preferential treatment at all to married people, gay or not? Why not treat people the same? If you don't treat people the same, it gets very messy and irrational.
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Here, for all intents and purposes (apart from inheritance tax and property after split) OH and I are married. No differences in our tax, we count just the same as married if we claimed benefits, we count as "living together as married" for travel and home and car insurance, all the rest of it.
  
  So it's all identical unless we die or split.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  the point it's more than money issue, in this situation government could do something to help any citizens; but the issue about our values and morals, our wellness, our kids future, and the future of this planet; no-one could see how our world could be if every body turn out to same sex marriage, what kind of values this marriage present?
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be under the impression that if gay marriage is legalised, everybody will become gay. Simply not true, old boy - gay marriage is legal in most of Europe and I do not feel the urge to start looking for manlove.
  
  Mind you, the fact that you are so worried about turning gay reveals an inner insecurity
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I was thinking that....
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Why on earth would anyone "turn to" gay marriage just because it's legal? Or do you think everyone is gay, really, they just need to admit it?
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Sufidreamerposted 16 years ago
Bisexuality is well documented in the animal world - Bonobo Chimps are just one example.

For me it is a yes - we are in the 21st Century now.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  morals and values don't change by time; water is water, dust is dust; and marriage could be only between man and woman; because, the values are same all times; marriage is natural law and it's crucial role between life and death...
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pgrundyposted 16 years ago
That's why I say, following Jefferson's reasoning, that marriage is a contract that begins in religion and the state (at least the United States) has no right to endorse or promote it.

If two people choose to marry that is their business and they should be free to do so. But the government has no place in this.

Right now the U.S. government endorses and promotes marriage in many ways and society follows up with discounts and perks and all sorts of other preferential treatments. I think this is wrong.
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pgrundyposted 16 years ago
I already had the first amendment and "Is America a Christian nation?" argument on my "Freedom From Religion" hub and I'm not interested in having it again. If you want to believe the U.S. is a Christian nation founded on the principles of Christianity, knock yourself out. You're wrong, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing the point with you. In the end you will just continue to believe whatever you want anyway, so there's no point in it. It wastes your time and mine.

To get back to the topic of this thread, MY point was that because separation of Church and State IS a founding principal for American democracy, the U.S. government should therefore not be promoting or legislating marriage, as that violates the first amendment. That's my only point here.

States should not be legislating the terms of marriage either. It's intrusive and has no purpose except to limit the right of individuals to have their own personal beliefs and practices and pursue happiness on their own terms, which again, the first amendment expressly prohibits.

The amendments to the Constitution limit the powers of government. The first amendment (in part) limits the power of government to promote religion. It begins, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," and that includes Christianity and I would argue, by extension, the institution of Christian marriage "between a man and a woman."

Christians are free to marry and limit marriage to a man and a woman. The U.S. government is not free to promote that because it is a religious concept.
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well pgrundy my 2 posts back on page 7 of this thread were to show that you are completely wrong when you say that the U.S. is not a nation founded on the principles of Christianity.
  
  In fact the Original Intent and the First Amendment clearly shows that the phrase "separation of church and state" was written eleven years after the writing of the First Amendment.
  
  So Jefferson just used the phrase "separation of church and state" in his 1802 letter to one Christian denomination (the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut) with concerns that another Christian denomination (the Anglican Church) may be established as the State Church.
  
  The Church of England is still called the Anglican Church in Canada. The Episcopal Church (a Province of the Anglican Communion) "was organized shortly after the American Revolution when it was forced to break with the Church of England on penalty of treason as Church of England clergy were required to swear allegiance to the British monarch". In short we are certain that the Founding Fathers did not have gender benders in mind when they wrote the First Amendment or even when Jefferson wrote his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut.
  
  But I totally agree with you though when you say the government/s should get out of the practice of writing marriage certificates.
  
  Mike
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waynetposted 16 years ago
"Oh dear" same sex marriage vote no for it!!, this is a complete waste of our time when there are things in the world that take precedence over the way people are born genetically, this is something that cannot be stopped, it's like saying "hey you gay monkey stop messing around with that other monkeys pink behind"!!

If we want to change the world, then we have to get rid of negative thinking about other people who just get on with their lives.

I'm sure Mustapha or mamood ( sorry can't remember his name) just posted this forum post for contraversial sign posting of his own user profile!!
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bgpappaposted 16 years ago
Broad statements will destroy arguments every time. The OP stated that his values have been around for "all times." Just not true. Homosexuallity was an accepted practice in anciet Greece and Rome. It was only the fundamentalists were preached against it. Sound familar.

Religion and your own sense of values are fine. But each has the right to determine for themselves what they believe and feel. Your values and your values and you are entitled to them and wish you the best. You go too far when you blast people for not agreeing.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So, are you gay?
  Marriage is natural Law; and if any one looking to have a life; there is one way for marriage man and woman; and no shame from it or any worry...
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  bgpappaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I am not gay and I am married to a beautiful woman. But I am not going to force my values on others.
  
  Marriage is not natural law, but a man made institution, as is bigotry and intolerance.
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  But as soon as gay marriage is allowed, you will divorce her and run off and marry Sufi, I dare say?
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
I have homosexual friends who are wonderful caring and loving parents. They had to fight through years of religion based bigotry to be permitted to have children. In Australia our society is now protected from narrow minded people who would hurt their children as my friends were hurt by loony god-botherers crossing the line between state and religion.

Indeed, "there are none so blind as those who will not see"
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Homosexual couples aren't asking for "more" rights. They are asking for EQUAL rights. People shouldn't think "well what am I getting out of this?" when making a decision on these matters. That is selfish and ignorant. Religion and government, separate, so don't even bring up religion in an argument. My mom's family was friends with Anita Bryant, she told me about how much a spiteful woman she was. I'm glad I personally don't know anyone like that, and it makes me sad to know that they exist.
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bgpappaposted 16 years ago
And there it is: the latest argument by the Right Wing to scare people into intolerance: What about the children?

Children need love, guidance, support and more love. Many children are not raised by a mother and father now. They are raised by grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, foster parents and adoptive parents: Are all of these relationships unnatural as well? Of course not.

What I noticed about the argument opposed to mine on this issue is they never state facts, just emotions. I believe many sincerely believe in what they are saying and I respect their beliefs.

Others just spew hurtful insults in an attempt to build themselves back up because their argument lacks factual support, and for this I have no respect for their argument.
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
It's possible you hang out in a bad neighborhood, mohamedhmm?

The gay couples I know (including my college friend Amy) have been with their partners for years. The child (Amy's partner's--a little girl) they have between them seems very well adjusted.

Another gay friend I work with (Chris) has been with her partner for over 10 years. They don't have kids though--but dogs! My point is that she's one of the nicest people I know at work.
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Back up your reasoning with something other than religion please. Thanks.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  science with me, natural law with me; what do u have to support you except some of few sick ideas?
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  why bother thinking so much about gays, has someone touched you and then you realized you liked it, and so you're now confused?
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Science with you? natural law with you? You think that backs up your reasoning?? Well you're completely wrong. Hmm well I'm a science major buddy and could argue science all day, if you would like to bring that side up. To support me? Personal experience, statistics, support of the rest of this forum...
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  me too science major
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Are you flunking out?
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  search about just medical problems and issues in same sex life
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  luvintkandtjposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You like to give vague answers... Please be specific. enlighten us.
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I googled it and the only website that came up was catholiceducation.org and cathmed.org. i don't see those as reliable sources. Another link then please? Preferably science based.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  read:
  AIDS AND SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES AMONG MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN ...
  AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases among men who have sex with men ... preventing infection, namely the prevention and treatment of same-sex attraction.
  www.fathersforlife.org/dale/aids1.html
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  Karen Weirposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Lets just say you were right and homosexual men are at risk - how is that going to harm YOU?
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ok I read it. And let me first say that in the office where I work we provide free HIV testing to our students. I present an HIV presentation to thousands of students every semester. Don't try to question me on HIV. Is there a higher percentage of HIV in the gay community. Yes. However there are lots of diseases that are associated more with particular demographics. Sickle cell anemia being an example. It doesn't belittle that population or make them "dangerous." I will also point out that the most recent source form the article you suggested was 1997... maybe they should do some updating??
  
  This is the warning on the website:
  
  Warning!
  
  "This site contains news and commentaries pertaining to fatherhood, fatherlessness, family issues, gender politics and the planned deconstruction of our society. The news items and other information found on this website reflect a conservative perspective and can be disturbing to liberals."
  
  Enough said.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  there are many studies about same sex diseases and new studies like:
  Homosexuality Research: Causes, Biology, Signs, Statistics, Trends
  Homosexuality Research Today is a free monthly online journal that collates and ... Articles on Homosexuality published 29 January 2009: http://www.homosexuality.researchtoday.net
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Lots of good reading there mohamdhmm!
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  thx; and you could enjoy that:
  Concerned Women for America - The Real Costs of 'Gay Marriage' and ...
  Homosexuality carries enormous physical and mental health risks, even where ... (HPV), syphilis, gonorrhea and other sexually transmitted diseases. ...
  http://cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=5 … yid=papers - Cached
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  First of all, it is sexually transmitted infections, not disease, so that article doesn't even have the right terminology. Second of all, new studies about the Netherlands (mentioned in that article) show that STI rates are now decreasing among the homosexual population, this came out in 2003. Your article came out in 2004 and it is wrong. Again, another case where your source is invalid and from a biased website. Keep trying if you wish.
  
  You still didn't answer my question by the way.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you could find by yourself science major; because, you will not take any approve; and you will look for any thing to deny the truth until the fire catch you;, may be you could believe the same...
  but read that from another source:
  Homosexuality more dangerous than terrorism in America | Tulsa Beacon
  ... infection from various sexually transmitted diseases is huge, such as gonorrhea, ... Full Article... © 2009 Tulsa Beacon - Entries (RSS) - Log in. Theme ...
  www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=203 -
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So like I said before "there are lots of diseases that are associated more with particular demographics." Like being a white woman I am more prone to Crohn's disease... or being a woman in general I am more prone to develop breast cancer. How again does this affect you? Being neighbors with a gay family isn't going to give you HIV. That logic is just messed up.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  this is could happen to me or you even if we are living within community of same sex people; read:
  Concerned Women for America - The Real Costs of 'Gay Marriage' and ...
  Homosexuality carries enormous physical and mental health risks, even where ... (HPV), syphilis, gonorrhea and other sexually transmitted diseases. ...
  http://cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=5…yid=papers -
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flread45posted 16 years ago
I voted for same sex marriage in WORMS only...
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fishskinfreak2008posted 16 years ago
I absolutely agree that homosexuality is strange and immoral
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  More fool you, then.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I've never tried it so I wouldn't know
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
I guess I could be waiting around for better sources forever. Or maybe they don't exist? Oh No! What will he do now?
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
No Google juice here leneth spam elsewhere
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Oh geez. Are you kidding now? I'm not even going to acknowledge that one. You really are stretching far. I will look for anything to deny the truth?? Really?? Apparently you will look for anything. Still haven't answered my question. Have now compared homosexuality to terrorism. Light that fire under you and knock off the bs.
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Ok so I couldn't help myself. That article is from again a religious based website so it is not a scientific source. Additionally, the study that they mention completed by Bell and Weinberg has been critiqued as "unreliable" because they did not represent a true control group, included bisexuals in their study, surveyed heterosexuals but did not include that data in their report, and several other reasons. It also states that only 3,000 Americans have been killed by terrorists... umm really??

You went back to a religious source. That is yet again, completely ridiculous.
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spiderpamposted 16 years ago
"God created us as sexual beings, perfectly tailoring male and female for sexual and emotional union in marriage (Genesis 2:18,21-24). He designed sex to be a wonderful way for people to experience intimacy, creation of life and pleasure. Unfortunately, we live in a world that has been corrupted by sin and death. The original plan and design has been marred and twisted on account of Man's original sin"
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  why do you keep advertising porn free homosexuality site?
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Is that right Goldentoad? that is too funny!
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  spiderpamposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Click the link and find out.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  OK I have seen it. It is a homophobic religious page. No Porn here.
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  spiderpamposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry you feel that way. Much Love
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And much love to you. I can not see where the church ends and politics begins here. I think that causing harm to others by imposing your biblical beliefs on their lives should not be a part of politics, but always is because of America's propensity for religion and old world beliefs.
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  spiderpamposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No one is imposing anything on anyone friend, I'm just telling biblical truth so people can make the best choice possible for their own life. We all have free will. You made your choice and I hope you are very happy, but millions of young people still struggle with trying to find purpose, meaning, and love in their life, but their lost and confused and scared. That why I continue to post and try to reach up then out so that one person might find their way through Christ. This is the biggest choice in most peoples lives aren't you glad you heard everything before you chose how to live your life? Give everyone else that same chance. Again thanks for your reply if you ever get lost, confused or just lonely, I always try to be a good listener. LOVE
  
  PS Believe or not this country was founded on religious beliefs in God and faith read our Constitution or just look in your wallet.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Why? To find money printed by private banks that the United States has no control over? Neat!
  
  Peace
  
  G|M
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You must be confusing me with someone else I am not an American.
  That is just the point you are telling "biblical truth" there is the same assumption in your reply that was there the first time.
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  kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If this is true, how do you explain the fact that homosexual or bisexual behavior has been observed in 1500 animal species, from worms to chimps? (Bonobos, the closest genetic relative of modern humans, are famous for their bisexual behavior.) I wasn't aware that "original sin" affected the animal kingdom.
  
  As for mohamedhmm, heterosexual transmission of AIDs has long since outpaced homosexual transmission in most countries. About 3/4 of AIDS cases worldwide are transmitted through sex, and of those, 3/4 are transmitted by heterosexual sex. In many countries, the percentage is even higher. In sub-saharan Africa, Asia, and the Caribbean, 99% of sexually transmitted AIDS cases are transmitted through heterosexual sex.
  
  http://www.worldbank.org/aids-econ/conf … 1sub1.html
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  spiderpamposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/13429
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  be real spider and don't mislead people by numbers- not real-, these numbers just for who have AIDS in this country; and it's just report not scientific study, and these numbers which you mentioned not for heterosexual or homosexual.
  So, i hope to be more scientific and honest about what you say for public; and there is a real study from university of Yale inside united state and the study state:
  Yale AIDS Watch
  North America. AIDS' Effect on North America's Population. United States: ... The decline in pediatric AIDS incidence is associated with the implementation of Public Health Service guidelines; and state that " Of the 298,248 men (of 13 years or older) who were living with AIDS:
  57% were men who had sex with men (MSM),
  www.yale.edu/yaw/northamerica.html
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
Your sources are from religious loonies like yourself Mohamedhmm and from a too prevalent bunch of religious hypocrites.A sub culture in America that has been interfering in peoples lives without any evidence to support their prejudicial stance is not much of a source either.Their unwavering belief is also in some god they read about in books that was written by a bunch of sexist human rights abusing men.
A lot of old world rubbish, and dangerous thinking in a world where human understanding has gone way beyond religion to brain chemistry and DNA as ways of understanding the human condition and why we still have religion and religious needs.The explanations do not need the credulity necessary to swallow the vindictive god/parent/omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent/all seeing/all knowing yet psychotic god of the bible torah or quoran.
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
This is the politics forum. But thanks for your opinion. Everyone has a right to one. And I happen to like some porn, so I wouldn't be a likely one to visit that site.
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gamergirlposted 16 years ago
To the Christians protesting here, I would remind you of Job, his sores, and his retort to his blasphemous wife.
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Uninvited Writerposted 16 years ago
In God We Trust was added to money much, much later than the founding of the nation.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your very true observation.
  
  G|M
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah it was first added to coins in 1864.
  
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mohamedhmmposted 16 years ago
So, Do you think after all of these facts about same sex or homosexual, and how there are many issues like health issue, medical problems, social problems, and many issues that one study not enough to show how same sex(homosexual)has bad results on our life as human live together; that, homosexual relationship or same sex marriage is a good choice for you as individual living in free society?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Dood, if you think gay guys going gaga over curtains and lesbians getting down with leathers are the destruction of society....
  
  ...you've either been hit with a rock or have been frozen in a time chamber. Or, you don't exist. And in fact, I've now just stricken you from humanity.
  
  There can't be a God if someone as ignorant as you was born.
  
  Thanks man, you've just now turned me away from your creator.
  
  Peace and Love (to the rest of us,)
  
  G|M
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  the real ignorant who keep going in same way after seeing all the signs and the facts; that's the wrong way.
  just use your mind and break the locks; then, may be you could see what i am seeing; just try and do not be ignorant...
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It is not him who is ignorant mohamedhmm.You are the one offering an outrageous idea supported by your sexist entity.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  but, you will meet Him one day and it's very close to you....
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Uninvited Writerposted 16 years ago
But you are proving that gay marriage will be best for everyone; less sleeping around, committed stable relationships. That is the way to fight AIDS
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This rings true. People treating each other well is the simple answer, and nothing guarantees that will happen between any type of couple.
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Mrvoodooposted 16 years ago
(2 Pet. 3:9; Jn. 3:16) 'As God has loved man and acted on his eternal good, so man must love fellow-man.'

'Man must love fellow man'

Sounds to me like that's what they're doing (all night long).
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you need understand God words' it's love not sex
  and God promise who do not follow the right way in this life; Hell ready for them; so, enjoy as you like now, because no more fun after that...
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  i forgot; do you love your mother?
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  Mrvoodooposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  All night long my friend, that's how we roll out here in the country!
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
OK, mohamedhmm.

Let's just plainly ask you. Do you know a fairly normal 'middle class,' if you will gay person--either male or female?
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
MM-kay... I'm not even gonna try further...

I think it is best we do pat mohamedhmm on the head and hope he doesn't plan to vote on anything, influence anything of substance, and stays far away from our gay friends and relatives.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmen!
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  i think you knew free speech
  and it's Amen not Ahmen
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
Oooo yes please!
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Colebaby I am sure you have plenty of men, and should set some of them free now, there's a good girl.
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darksideposted 16 years ago
In this letter, I want to skip the usual preaching, moralizing, and pontificating and go straight to the facts. One of my objectives is to throw down the gauntlet and challenge Mohamedhmm's vassals to provide information and inspiration to as many people as possible. Mohamedhmm's henchmen exploit the feelings of charity and guilt that many people have over the plight of the homeless for dubious reasons or for no reason at all. That being the case, we can infer that most people don't realize that Mohamedhmm has already revealed his plans to force people to act in ways far removed from the natural patterns of human behavior. He revealed these plans in a manifesto bearing all of the hallmarks of having been written by a self-satisfied wimp. Not only is his manifesto entirely lacking in logic, relentlessly subjective, and totally anecdotal, but Mohamedhmm's efforts to visit misery and havoc upon countless millions are the reason we have so many problems today with alienation, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and aimlessness on the part of our young people. We can therefore extrapolate that he is interpersonally exploitative. That is, he takes advantage of others to achieve his own poxy ends. Why does he do that? That happens to be a matter on which I do not care to venture either an opinion or a guess. I do, however, feel that I should state that Mohamedhmm occasionally writes letters accusing me and my friends of being fastidious traitors. These letters are typically couched in gutter language (which is doubtless the language in which Mohamedhmm habitually thinks) and serve no purpose other than to convince me that when I say that it would be a mistake to believe that every word that leaves his mouth is teeming with useful information, this does not, I repeat, does not mean that mediocrity and normalcy are ideal virtues. This is a common fallacy held by petty politicos.

We must learn to celebrate our diversity, not because it is the politically correct thing to do but because he is willing to promote truth and justice when it's convenient. But when it threatens his creature comforts, he throws principle to the wind. For Mohamedhmm's malign plans to succeed, he needs to dumb down our society. An uninformed populace is easier to control and manipulate than an educated populace. Within a short period of time, schoolchildren will stop being required to learn the meanings of words like "internationalization" and "roentgenographically". They will be incapable of comprehending that Mohamedhmm says that his debauches are the result of a high-minded urge to do sociological research. This is noxious falsehood. The truth is that he might have been in a lethargic state of autointoxication when he said that he is a man of peace. More likely, perhaps, is that there is no place in this country where we are safe from Mohamedhmm's surrogates, no place where we are not targeted for hatred and attack.

I can't help but wonder: Why does everyone hate Mohamedhmm? Is it because of his business practices, exclusivity, disloyalty, disrespect, or because Mohamedhmm keeps trying to preach a propaganda of hate? I'll tell you the answer in a moment. But first, let me just say that he demands absolute and blind obedience from his mercenaries. If he didn't, they might question his orders to eviscerate freedom of speech and sexual privacy rights. This unrelenting demand of obedience also implies that society must soon decide either to maximize our individual potential for effectiveness and success in combatting Mohamedhmm or else to let Mohamedhmm interfere with my efforts to do what needs to be done. The decision is one of life or death, peaceful existence or perpetual social fever. I can hope only that those in charge realize that Mohamedhmm likes to compare his half-measures to those that shaped this nation. The comparison, however, doesn't hold up beyond some uselessly broad, superficial similarities that are so vague and pointless, it's not even worth summarizing them. To wrap up, I'll just hit the key elements of this letter one last time. First, this is typical of the kind of noise Mohamedhmm enjoys making. Second, respect for the law is not enhanced by setting the bad example of breaking the law. And finally, he slaps his message of surly solecism on everything that stands still—newspapers, magazines, billboards, movies, op-eds, and grant proposals.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  and that's the reason i am here
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And that's the reason darkside and other people don't like you!You represent hate and vengeance.
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
What is that supposed to mean? I was just sayin' I hope my gay friends never come across mohamed (or anyone like him). I don't have a lot of men Just one. Ya'll are too much to have more than one.
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The Captainposted 16 years ago
I don't believe in same sex marriage. If you do it the same every time, it gets boring. You should try different things. Role playing, unique positions, or dressing up like a..oh..I don't know...a Pirate or something. Nope, don't believe in same sex marriage at all.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  just i am caring about all of you; and i wish the best for us; because in the end we are brothers; and i like all of us to be happy; here and after; and just i say for all of you; even you are agree with me or not- as free society believe in free speech-; peace upon all of you.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  mohamedhmm we finally agree on something.... free speech!
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Amen
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  OK! OK! One last try. Pretend I'm Matthew McConaughey in that one movie where he's a lawyer (looking really good, as see, I'm not gay)in the south and he's giving his final argument, and he tells this story about a little black girl who is beaten and raped and tortured. OK--sort of like mohamedhmm as you have stated that all in the end are brothers. And then Matthew says, OK, "now imagine if she were white."
  
  All right. So, mohamedhmm, imagine what you just said. Think about it, really. Now imagine that ernest or the Captain were gay.
  
  Did it work? No? You sure? Well, maybe you need to see the movie--A Time To Kill. Has some pretty good implied heterosexual tension between mcConaughey and Sandra Bullock wrapped in there among the drama & moral--so, it might be worth it for you to see, 'sides the above story.
  
  And I'm down with free speech. It is my right to say, however, I don't find all opinions of equal value.
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mohamedhmmposted 16 years ago
just to help you as god told us in bible
"love your fellow man"
and i do here
i love you all
and i want all of you near from God; this life is too short to waste it in wrong way or hate
we need to look to the issue by open minded; it's about you; it's about you here and after; it's about real love, and the real happiness; and no way to find happiness with dark side and darkness.
let's come together with Love.
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  All right. Now can you think that and apply it to a person who just happens to be gay?
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  God never create any gay; that's our choice; you choose this way, you choose to be gay; so, it's our choice to be or not to be; and i wonder why any one choose to be gay? you could answer me and tell me why some people turn to be gay?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And the judges say?
  
  Oh, we're sorry, you got that one wrong. Care to try door number two?
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  but you don't answer me at all...
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Alright..here we go!
  
  Fact I was born 1lbs 13 oz
  Fact I have a brain that operates close to a "female" because of hormone exposure in the womb being wonky due to pregnancy complications.
  Fact I'm genetically a dead end because I can't reproduce.
  
  Did God make me this way because he wanted to spite me?
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ok:
  so; you suggest that any woman in same situation like you is a gay?
  Every body have his own problems; and many people have health problems; but, this is not mean to be gay.
  The problem should make us better by finding solutions to solve it; this is will make us more stronger in life, any many people became like hero when they beat their own problem.
  you do not escape from your normal life to gay life because health problem; and how same sex would solve this problem?!
  why you do not find good match accept you as you are; there are many men and women looking for another sex, and there are many options and diversity in choice...
  So, look for real solutions to your problems EXCEPT to be GAY.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You just don't get it do you mohamedhmm? Gay people are born gay! Go mix with the real world.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  that's just your opinion no approve for it
  so, tell me if you are right how did you born as a gay?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And I'm male...well, legally, anyway. Intersexed by the textbook definition, if one would want to further know the truth. xxy and all that jazz. And I'm celibate. Not because I hate the fact I dig chicks and guys, but because I've got other things in my life to do at this point. But the doctors didn't know, and I was born in Ohio, and they're almost as bad as you when it comes to understand these types of things. Almost. I've ran up medical bills getting to understand these things, but to be honest, I could care less who you see me as.
  
  But yes, its true, its a medical and science fact, and if you can't understand this...well, there is no hope for you my friend.
  
  Good luck in getting into Heaven with your Hate. I'll try to talk Bob into letting you in..like I said before, no hard feelings.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  G|M
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  But;
  
  the door is still opened to come back; there is a hope...
  The door is still open to come back; there is a hope...
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  i want you understand my question:
  if you are a male; what's same sex for sex with male would make difference; why you didn't try find a woman could understand you and your situation?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm legally a male. Not getting into details, but I can't reproduce. Be a grownup and figure it out. I've also no inclination. I'm male on paper, but when you dig down underneath and get to some medical and science facts, I'm not as appears.
  
  Thanks mother nature.
  
  It doesn't matter to me, really. To be honest, I'm more inclined to do a woman's hair than to want to have intercourse with her. But this, again, relates to the fact my brain was washed with estrogen instead of tesosterone like it normally would be had I been born a "normal" male. Most gay guys have this type of issue, but calling me gay would be a bit of a misnomer. Just call me Pat.
  
  G|M
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Mr.Mohamed,
  
  Sir the medical(and psychological) opinion overwhelmingly states that the majority of Homosexuals aren't due to a choice but they are gay by birth. I don't know if mentioning a few articles would help in expanding your knowledge but anyway here is my humble attempt http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/ … osexuality
  http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazi … eople_gay/
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ======================
  
  nice try; but there is no any real physical sex problem to be gay; but try, and i doubt to find any crucial reason to excuse gay life; because if you are male you should find female not male; and same for female; but gays still trying to force their desire and they still looking for misleading society to get their way; but try again.
  and also you do not answer my question yet; it's simple what's same sex make difference; if you are male you could find female love to be with you, and if you are female you could find someone love to have life with you; so, why same sex?
  i hope my question clear, because no one really answer my question yet; my love for all.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  *Pat bangs its head on the keyboard*
  
  Man, you're braindead. I'll be searching for a new one for you. I'll try eBay.
  
  I am, however, officially bowing out. You've proven over and over again that you're hopelessly lost and addicted to illogical nonsense.
  
  And again, I wish you well, and I hope you find room in your life to see beyond your stupidity.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  G|M
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ============
  you still run away from answering; and i think there is no real answer from gays.
  and again:
  if you are a male; what's same sex for sex with male would make difference; why you didn't try find a woman could understand you and your situation?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  (*sigh* I really need to learn when to quit..)
  
  I've answered you multiple times man. I'm not wired to like girls, I'm wired to be one. Fact. End of story.
  
  SO technically, if I did lay with a woman, I guess I could be calling myself a lesbian trapped in a man's body...oh man, that hurt my head.
  
  But seriously, if you cared anything about truth at all, you'd read up on these issues.
  
  But you don't. And I'm done trying to reason with the witless.
  
  G|M
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You obviously do not understand that a heterosexual is not homophobic like you, neither is my spouse or my children, or my friends..... or many people here on hubpages.As for people's sexuality, it is their business and none of yours.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ===============
  that's so poor, and no answer yet;so, you want to talk; answer the questions, and gave your opinion, may be you could answer this:
  you like your kids to be gays?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, you want me to say...its their choice.
  
  I can't have kids, so I couldn't tell you.
  
  G|M
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  NO! Absolutely freaking No. Why? Because people may treat them in the manner you have been displaying here. I wouldn't want any kid to have to deal with that.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  same here
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  But I maintain the fault is with those who would discriminate against such a child and cause harm.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely fine by me. No one cares ok, just you, a hand full of bikies and a bunch of religious fanatics like yourself.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sir,
  
  OK let me try again. Since I am not a born native English speaking woman I may have issues in explaining myself clearly hence please bear with me. Btw can you also state what is your country of origin and where you are located now? So that I can understand you better. (PS: I am from India and now residing in USA).
  
  I once had a friendly discussion with a colleague of mine and I said I like Dogs as pets and she absolutely loves cats. In my defense I never had cat as a pet but had dog when I was a little girl. She likes cats a lot and if somebody asks why she likes cats more than dogs then no explanation is required since it is deep inner feeling for her(she has lots of cats). Same way some folks like/love others of the same sex (which more often they are born with there particular orientation). If I like somebody or something it is an internal feeling which can't be shown or explained easily. Do I choose explicitly everything I like or dislike I honestly don't think so. I hope you do understand that there are folks who have different inclinations which even if we don't understand completely the least we can do is to try to respect them. It is strictly a private matter what and whom a person likes. Are you getting what I am trying to say? As many people are there so many views would be there in the world. Let us learn to live and let live.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You do well enough! A lot better than many. Especially high school kids. Their vernaculars often consist of four letter words.
  
  Or, better yet...
  
  "Lady, lady! I only speak two languages; english and bad english."
  
  I can barely grasp french, german, spanish, etc. I only know two types of languages, really: romance and anglo-saxon.
  
  I've not heard much of the Indian language, but of that I have heard..it sounds complex enough to me. Go you.
  
  G|M
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well if I share a joke which I heard once in India then please don't get mad at me. Here is the joke: One guy asks to another who is a person who knows 3 languages and the other guy answers he/she is a multilingual or a polyglot. Then he asks the second question who is a person who knows 2 languages and the answer is a bilingual. Then he asks the final question who is the person who knows only 1 language and the answer is American.
  
  P.S: It is just said in fun and no offense meant to anyone. And before somebody complains of side tracking I am correcting myself
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, never take any offence.
  
  Thats funny. I once watched a program back on a channel that used to exist called TechTV. They showed how Indians were learning not only to speak english, but to use Canadian/British/American dialect and the likes.
  
  You guys are good. ;P
  
  And you're absolutely right. For a county that has no legal official language, we don't speak many as a whole.
  
  G|M
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  My friend as they say necessity is the mother of invention. In India people even with Masters degrees don't have jobs and one has to keep equipping oneself with whatever is the trend to survive there. I guess in US to work in MacDonalds or anywhere one doesn't need even a bachelors degree or anything just willingness to work but in India no matter what qualifications one has it is extremely difficult to get jobs for the millions of graduates graduating every year. In spite of the job losses still there are some jobs here in USA (which may or may not be to our liking) but in India it is extremely difficult to get any job. In India they say if you don't get what you like then you have to like what you get.
  
  Btw there are many Americans who know Spanish/French (at least from my office colleagues I noticed this).
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You're absolutely right about mother of invention. And its kinda funny, huh? So many people with pieces of paper saying they're smart and little jobs to be had?
  
  We learn Spanish or French in High School, generally. A second language is often a requirement. ;P Once you learn one or the other, its pretty easy to master another. Same basic syntax, just different words.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Mr.Mohamed- Since I wasn't able to express myself clearly then I would state the gist here: Those who like same sex partners don't make a choice (most of the times) but by birth they like same sex partner. I sent some links did you read that? And also let me know about your background too (in case if you are from India and speak Hindi then I can try even explaining in Hindi)
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ===========
  all of these i read; but, there no any physical problem or serious medical issue could state that person must be gay.
  because if the issue is love; that's mean its just a choice.
  because if i am man and i could have a sex i should look for my match(female); or you turn the goal from gay just a desire for sex with any one and doesn't matter what kind of sex ; just for sex...
  so no excuse for any one to be gay...
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sir,
  I guess if you are not keen to reveal your background. Then either my communication isn't clear or there is some other issue which I have no control over. I wish you the best and hope you do understand the issues better as time progresses. Have a great weekend. I admit my shortcomings and leave in peace.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ===========
  the location doesn't matter because we live in one land and one mother; the earth...
  and we need to save it from our bad desires and our sick ideas..
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Look man, here's another simple fact.
  
  All that crap you're reading was written by men to control men. Our Creator set everything in motion and the Universe was born. It did not create the earth, nor a garden of eden, nor an adam and eve.
  
  One day you might be able to let go of your hate and ignorance and come to understand God. But until you fight your personal demons (or Satan, I suppose) the bullshit your spouting is doing no one any good.
  
  There's probably a home for you here in the States between Texas and Oklahoma, though.
  
  You're making me angry. And I can't allow myself to accuse you of being hateful and then turn around and dump a bunch of it on you. So I still think you're a human being, with a soul as me, and I wish you well in life.
  
  But I'm going to have to stop listening to your diatribes. They're exhaustively inane.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  G|M
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  note: this is a forum about same sex, if you have respectful opinion welcome but no right for any one to judge any belief or holy book as crap; we do not use such words; just opinion not judgment and please choose your words....
  I think to be gay it's just choice; if really not what 's your story about gay life; why, and how you became gay?
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I want to give up again...lol.
  
  1) I am NOT gay--I live in sin with a guy
  
  2) There is a preponderance of evidence that an individual turning out gay is based on a number of factors--for your purposes here, because it is complex, let us say it is not choice, but a function of heredity. So they have NO choice. Rather like someone born with blond hair having no choice (at least without hair dye).
  
  You can read about this--I believe you said you were a science major--if you choose to. In valid sources.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm living proof of these things.
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, as I see, above.
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
It is all simple enough. mohamedhmm is homophobic and a religious fundamentalist.
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Choke Franticposted 16 years ago
In my opinion, same sex marriage is fine. After all, didn't God say "This I command you, that you love one another." - John 15:12

Love is love, and no one should be persecuted for committing a positive act. People should focus their energies, time and talent on persecuting people who actually do wrong things; like sexually abuse, assault, arson and steal. Homosexualality is not wrong.
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, just posting a homophobic hub does not cut it.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  just love please no sex in same sex; love every body; but no homosexualty....
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
Miss California beauty queen it looks like (on CNN now) would agree that gay people should not have the right to get married.

Oh, how fitting..WTF is happening to California?
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well I guess a smarter Miss Cal is in order.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well...you know, as much as I disagree with her view, I'm impressed she had the guts to stick with it in front of that many people.
  
  I think she's wrong, sure...but could you have stuck to your guns? I dunno if I could have.
  
  Besides, I think marriage should be abolished as a legal institution..maybe after a five year live-in should it become an option.
  
  G|M
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This IS STILL going?
  
  And yeah, GM, I always 'stick to my guns,' lol, maybe TOO much. Just ask anyone who knows me. If somebody has a valid point, I will listen and consider it. (But few ever really have valid points,.)
  
  I thought Miss Cal sounded like an idiot. Now there's an institution that should be disbanded--that Miss America stuff. I'm actually all good with girly girls, , but they better have brains, or I just wanna smack them. (Think Sandra Bullock again, in Miss Congeniality.)
  
  It doesn't take much for a parrot to ape whatever she's been told to ape. Oh--except for that one young blond look-a-like beauty queen a while back (why do they all look alike???) who totally made mince meat of whatever she tried to say (it embarrassed me watching her, even)... And it is so sad, cuz all they gotta say is "world peace," anyway...
  
  Besides, don't you know most of them are of the Bible Belt sorta persuasion, if you know what I'm saying? Most of them have ideas as in this post.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Course it's still going. The OP has convinced me that same-sex marriage is going to destroy the world. I constructed an industrial strength chastity belt, from a couple of Bibles, to make sure that one of these rabid and diseased gays does not try to commit an act of burglary upon my person.
  
  I also burned my Village People CD, just in case.
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  Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  LOL You should be TERRIFIED, Sufi. You could turn gay at any second. WE ALL could. It might be like--The Plague.
  
  Personally, I use holy water against any beauty queen types or anything female that might come after me.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps I can bite people and made them do some ballet...hmm....
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Mrvoodooposted 16 years ago
Genuine love these days is a rare commodity, hell I'd take it anywhere I could find it, gay hetro, wherever...
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  earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! Being homophobic like mohamedhmm is not a good look.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So; How gay life if you are one from them has better look?
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  Mrvoodooposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ? Now you're just talking in riddles man, is that like a Yoda thing?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  (raises pitch a couple octaves, kicks in the kermit the froggie throat)
  
  In truth you must believe, or perish you shall!
  
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  Mrvoodooposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  lol, that actually makes sense though but:
  
  "So; How gay life if you are one from them has better look?"
  
  That's some crazy-ass cryptic shit, just wish I knew what it meant.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Like the OP said, this gayness thing is contagious. First the secret desire to be in a musical, then the fantasies and then civilisation falls.
  
  Dale Winton is a far greater threat to world peace than North Korea.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Are you kidding me? Kim Jong Ill in a tracksuit is tyranny any day!
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Kim Jong Ill dressed up like the construction worker from Village People would be a very serious threat to us all.
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Congratulations Sulfi, I think you just gave me my first ulcer. ;P
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Just trying to be of service. Very soon, the Pink People's Army will be ready to sweep across the world. Think Mardi Gras with AK-47's.
  
  Be very afraid
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I've four rats, I'm sure they'll scream and run away.
  
  In a most delicate manner, at that.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  They are probably spies for Kim Jong Ill. Next thing you know, you will be forced into a same sex marriage.
  
  Mohamed warned you, so I have no sympathy.
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  Mrvoodooposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It's gone contagious now? Am I going to have to start wearing one of those little paper face masks like they do in Japan? How long after infection does it take a person to turn?
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

For a start.
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Leta Sposted 16 years ago
Why should his sexuality--or lack there of, as he says he is celebate--threaten you THAT much?

Are you aware that some animal species are males and then become females at times? Do you know what a hermaphrodite is? Do you know ( I believe if I remember correctly) that male seahorses become pregnant? Do you know what asexual reproduction is? Or any of this?
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
Look at the data mohemedhmm and look up homophobic as well.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ================
  you do not really answer me any yet...
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
How would you feel if your children were straight?

It's just not a question people even consider. So why should I consider being any different or feeling any different if my child were not.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  but you are female, and there are many guys like to have life with you... so; why gay then?
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Colebabieposted 16 years ago
I'm not going to argue with you, because unlike the other night, I don't have all night. I have a final exam tomorrow. I have no idea what that comment means by the way. Does it mean a lot of guys want to have sex with me?
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck on your finals! Remember...the best thing to do is to forget everything five minutes after, and not before.
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ====
  I mean, you are not only smart female; but, pretty one, and many guys could full of love for you; why you don't give option for one of them?
  to marry you, live together as wife and husband; did you hear about that?
  and if you don't have ability for kids, there are many kids looking for love, you could adopt one or more...
  is this reasonable to you; and good luck in your exam...
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously, with a divorce rate climbing past fifty percent, you think queers are the death of the family?
  
  All those gays...infecting the youth with their teletubbies and Barney the dinosaur. For shame!
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  mohamedhmmposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  i knew; but there are some are still good for you; only give it try...
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I've got many things on my list to do. Getting into a relationship at this point isn't one of them. When and if I do, again, its not like it'll matter whether who I find and what they've got down below.
  
  I can't have kids.
  
  Whats the point of pursuing a traditional relationship when I'm not a traditional person?
  
  Personally I feel, marriage needs to be abolished. You straights have ruined it for yourselves.
  
  I'm not going to debate with you that humanity is hurting right now...I've never debated that.
  
  But you have some weird fixation on queers. Ever heard it takes a village to raise a child? We're all connected by cell phones and the internet, yet now so many people don't bother to remove it from their ear even when they're up at a checkout stand.
  
  Its nothing to do with homosexuality, and nothing to do with the threat of losing "traditional" marriage. It has everything to do with people becoming more selective with each other, fearful of each other. We're a society of misanthropy.
  
  And that is our biggest issue and threat, not the loss of "traditional" values. We've lost those a long time ago.
  
  You know, I know I've probably sounded like a jerk to you, and you've repeatedly dodged my points as well. But remember how I keep telling you I wish you well? Have you seen yourself do that? Or anyone else here?
  
  Granted, I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal. I'm trying to prove my point; your actions, the actions of others, and myself at times included, are the problem of society.
  
  Do me and yourself a favor. Find your closest loved one, even if its a pet (or yourself) and give a hug.
  
  Love is beautiful no matter who it is between. We've got a rather short supply of it right now.
  
  G|M
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I know that's true, couldn't agree more. Isaac spends a lot of time with his parents, of course, but his grandparents, my sisters and brother, and OH's brother are all really important in his life. None of them yet have children (none is gay, as far as I know, but it would make no difference, of course!)
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  GeneriqueMediaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's awesome. The more the merrier, as they say.
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Oh every guy wants to marry me? Smart and pretty... I'm a double threat am I? And I will give the option to my boyfriend when we are both ready. I prefer to be with my boyfriend and have lots of sex before I get married. And after we get married, the plan is still to have lots of sex. I'm not sure what having lots of guys wanting to marry me has to do with what I think of my future children being gay. But alright...
  I'm 21. I'm going to graduate school next year. I am in no position, although I think I would be a great mom, to have a child right now.
  
  We'll get married and have kids later. Too busy right now. I can't even have a dog
  Still no idea what this has to do with me accepting my possibly gay future child.
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  LondonGirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know - I think you should be chained to a kitchen sink, popping out sprogs one by one....
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  Colebabieposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  like certain people want? I would never satisfy him
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earnestshubposted 16 years ago
mohamedhmm you didn't know? Homosexuals are teaching our children and are famous children's stars on TV?
better get your thought police together and get on over there.
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SeSharerposted 16 years ago
I really don't mind. LOL
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Skunk120posted 16 years ago
You seem to be a very homophobic person, and your bringing up the argument of same sex marriage in a very hurtful and immature manner. You seem to have a one track mind and do not care about the other side. You also do not explain in depth about what human kind is to you and how are wellness inter twins with your opinion on the subject.
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LondonGirlposted 16 years ago
CW, what is your family language? Is it Hindi?

I speak English (kind of), GCSE-level German (and Latin...), and toddler-level Hebrew.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well we have many family languages. We originally belong to the Tamil priestly community but settled in Tirupati (southern Andhra Pradesh) hence also speaking Telugu. My Mother's mother side belongs to Mysore hence whenever I go there I also picked up some Kannada. Besides that due to my education in Central School (KV) I know Hindi and also due to fathers transfers to Cochin and Bombay learned a little Malayalam and Marathi.
  
  After coming to US I had some friends in University and present company from China, Korea, Japan, Philippines hence picked up a few sentences from them. Besides that from some of my American colleagues who are well versed in Spanish and French I learned few sentences/phrases of that language. For me I find the toughest languages to speak(forget about writing) to be from the far east (Chinese, Korean and Japanese).
  report

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