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  1. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Since I identify as Christian, because I believe in Jesus as the savior, I speak of it often.
    I have found that in all my conversations with the most intelligent, and/or highly articulate, and some not so articulate; I am bombarded with many objections to my faith.
    I am accused of being indoctrinated; unable to think for myself; and my personal favorite, unintelligent.  I just wonder why??? If I am speaking things as I see them.  I am well within my right.
    Why is the name Jesus, such a sore area for so many?  The way I see it is this: If I am wrong, why must you try to convince me?  I am not the ultra pushy evangelizer who will visit you at your home uninvited, to spread the word o'God. 
    I am convinced of my position. Are you not convinced of yours?

    1. Paul K Francis profile image81
      Paul K Francisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What you say does not sound very unintelligent to me. Most people will, I think, respect your convictions. Don't  be angry at the ones who do not. Have a nice day.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Anger does not come into play. I have some type of patience that allows for the most ridiculous of statements smile Thank you for your comment, I just wonder why this subject usually ends with name-calling and disrespect. Where does the "anger" come from? The name Jesus really ruffles feathers. I guess it is supposed to.  Satan has many more followers.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          What's really hilarious is that you answered your own questions. lol

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So, what are YOU doing? smile

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Pointing out your flaws and fabrications.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Nuh-uhn!!! smile

              2. Getridame profile image60
                Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Another slow learner.

                http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOnsnaXbDwpg3n-7piVQrac6edzJSZ3U-IcOAp1hHkIGf-ZDFB

                Gotcha again!

                1. profile image52
                  lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  God designed it as such- if everything was faster than the gator then it would starve now wouldn't it?

                  1. Slarty O'Brian profile image83
                    Slarty O'Brianposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    So god designed it to kill? Odd god you have. Perhaps he could have designed it to eat sun light? Why design it and us to be predators and in a sense murderers on a daily basis just so we can all survive? 

                    I'd say any conscious god that designed it all this way should never be forgiven for it's lack of compassion and its cruelty.

                    On the other hand if the universe was produced through a non-conscious process it all makes sense, and it isn't maliciousness.

                    The fact that there is real evidence of nature (that being the nature of energy/matter) and there is no real evidence of a god is a positive thing.

                    Never the less, I respect your right to believe what ever you like. But if you are on these kinds of forums you are going to have to justify your beliefs and expect all manner of  opinions.

                    Best to grow a think skin like the gator. wink

          2. healthierdiet profile image24
            healthierdietposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I think you're right with this one....lol

        2. A Thousand Words profile image69
          A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I think the anger has many different roots that can't be summed up in every non-christian being "Satan's followers." It's ideas like that that many people find to be rude. Just because we don't believe in Jesus, we are "Satan's followers" whether we want to be or not. it's the psychology amongst other things that perpetuates the doctrine and the dogma that bother most of the people I know, along with myself. You can believe whatever you like, but sometimes, no matter what you believe, somoene won't like it. Just read the situation... If it's inappropriate, don't bring it up, or do expect to get some flack. Just like Christians want our respect, they should respect us. Just like you are passionate about what you believe, a lot of people passionately disagree.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, I can respect your space, if you respect mine.

          2. profile image52
            lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Look at the comments on this topic from the beginning. Now, answer honestly, was it the Christian who used sarcasm and degrading name calling first? No, the unbelievers did. They are making fun of genaea for asking a religious question. What I fail to understand is why even attempt to answer a faith-based question if you do not share her beliefs? It is to fight and play the "I'm smart, see" game. What disrespect has she shown any of you? It is you "honest intellectuals" that have been disrespectful. I'm sorry if you guys have had bad experiences with Christians, but we are as individual as unbelievers are. To attack and make fun of one for his/her belief system and turn around and claim that those members of that system are disrespectful is more than disingenuous. If you flack for what you believe do you simply concede that you should never speak of it again? That would turn us all into pets would it not?

      2. profile image52
        lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Jesus said in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Why is this? It is simply because the Holy Spirit that is within the Christian and the spirit of this world which is within the unbeliever, are at odds. You recognized "truth" when you heard it and the world at large has not (sadly). I would say they remain indoctrinated and you have been set free!

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          indoctrinate
          verb
          teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

          This means that the word indoctrinate, can only be use when a person or group has a belief that they haven't thought critically about. If someone just excepts on faith that God or the holy spirit exists without question, they have been indoctrinated.

          1. profile image52
            lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, as an educator, I can assure you that indoctrination does not require any critical cognitive behavior. We are all indoctrinated from birth to death. The difference is simply that some have realized this simple truth and thus, are set free (choosing to shake off their "taught" world view) while most continue on as usual-indoctrinated in their views that if visualized, would look oddly like a Venn Diagram. If you do not think that you have been indoctrinated my friend, you are greatly mistaken!

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Sure I was raised as a Catholic and was indoctrinated, but at about 11 or 12 I started to question what I was doing and started to look at the church from the outside. Nobody told me to think the way I do and I didn't bring it up to anyone until I was about 19. So you tell me just how I was indoctrinated to be an Atheist? I think that if one can plant the seed of doubt young enough (before the brain is finished developing) some can be reached. Otherwise we end up with someone disbelieving science in the favour of the bible.

              1. Claire Evans profile image69
                Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Radman, this doesn't make sense.  If you were indoctrinated, you could not possibly start to question later on.  You would have pushed all critical thinking aside.  Indoctrinated people can't reason.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure they can, they just need to start before there brain is fully developed. Once I started to question I couldn't stop. The next thing I know I was looking from the outside in.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image69
                    Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    What was your first question?

        2. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe it's because this "truth" that you speak of is filled with only LIES.  Imagine that! 

          Try actually telling the truth and we will have no problem believing...If we disregard our intellectual honesty, and choose to believe despite the glaring dissonance, we will just become dishonest, immoral, willfully ignorant, blind followers.  There is no honor in being a slave.

          1. profile image52
            lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I have told the truth, perhaps you have missed something in my post and should read it again. I did not say that my truth is known to you, I simply gave a Biblical reason to Genaea for the hostility that she encounters because of her faith in Jesus the Christ. Further, my truth is your lie, not a lie. Just because you do not agree with me does not make me or my "truth" a lie. I could share my truth with you all day and you would still not believe. Also, I in no way disregard intellectual honesty. I simply have the sense to admit that we are limited in our understanding of many things. Science and those like yourself (I gather from your post) pretend that you can be adamant about so much, but before man had the capability to see the make up of a simple snowflake the Bible proclaimed "Have you entered into the treasures of the snow? or have you seen the treasures of the hail?" Job 38:22  Their will remain a great dissonance between faith and what you call intellectual honesty. I am more than grateful for that- because if you count yourself amongst the first group it is you who are being dishonest. You claim honesty due to intellect, yet you call me a liar due to your ignorance of spiritual things. There is no honor in that either! Proclaiming that intellect is honesty is rather obtuse reasoning. Are you a slave to your so-called intellectual honesty? If you were as honest as you try to come across, you would admit that you cannot be certain that God does not exist. Lastly, I would rather be a slave knowingly than to be one and not have a clue as to my condition. We are all slaves to something (if that helps you understand my point better).

            1. getitrite profile image73
              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I'm not the ONLY one who disagrees with your "truth"   Here are a few others that disagree with your outlandish assertions:   REALITY.  COMMON SENSE.    SANITY...



              But you go one step further than just admitting that we are limited in our understanding...when you assert that Goddunnit!  That's dishonesty.  Admit that you don't know...and be done with it.



              Pathetic!



              Since spiritual things are imaginary, you are the one being dishonest.  One can't claim to know things that are unknowable, by misinterpreting a 2000 year old book of myths and fairy tales...without looking completely dishonest and absurd. 



              Which God?!!! 



              Yeah I get your point.  The point is that indoctrination causes people to make all kinds of ridiculous assertions in order to desperately plead for the acceptance of their psychotic delusion.

              1. profile image52
                lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I can blatantly admit that I do not understand how the universe was created. It is scientists (not all) that peddle their theories as fact. A Christian says, "I believe the world was created by a loving creator" not "I know the world was created by a loving creator." But, common sense dictates that order comes from order versus the contrary (that order came from chaos). Absurdity is looking at the marvels of our universe and determining that it was (in all of its glorious order) a happenstance. That is like a child throwing Lincoln Logs on the floor and them landing as a beautiful, well-built log cabin versus landing in a simple pile made of logs. Spiritual things are not imaginary in my honest opinion. Are you not the one claiming to know the "unknowable" when you so adamantly deny even the possibility that God does exist? You deny that you have been indoctrinated yet, you call me dishonest and delusional. I am not pleading nor am I desperate for acceptance. With your name calling it is you who comes across desperate to prove something. History has proven that Book you call a fairy tale to be very accurate. As to which God Christians hold as such He has many names that highlight His character, but when Moses asked Him, "Who shall I say sent me?" He answered, "I AM, that I AM." On another note, I would rather be pathetic and right than pathetic and wrong when I come to the end of my life to find that there is indeed a God and He lovingly holds us accountable for our choices made in this journey we call life.

                1. JMcFarland profile image72
                  JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The intelligent design argument has been debated and debunked so many times, it's insane.  I would suggest that you go to talkorigins.org if you want to see creationist claims and the scientific response.  It seems like you don't really understand the scientific method works, nor do you understand the difference between a scientific theory and the common use of the word.  Scientists do not assert anything with absolute certainty.  They observe, test, repeat, etc.  the "theory" of evolution is not what you think it is.  Scientists, unlike theists, examine the evidence and if it is proven incorrect, they CHANGE THEIR MINDS.  No matter how many apologists try to debunk evolution, they fail.  Miserably.  Repeatedly.  If someone could disprove evolution, they would have a Nobel prize.

                  What history exactly are you claiming process the Bible accurate?

                2. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You, obviously, don't care to really ascertain what comprises a scientific THEORY.



                  Yet you are here defending those BELIEFS as if they were facts.  Secondly, you have no evidence, whatsoever, for your illogical beliefs.  LOVING???!!!  I guess Hurricane Sandy was a display of his LOVE!



                  So I should just pretend that a 2000 year old plagiarized book of ignorance is the logical default.  Right?  How stupefying!



                  Of course...then let's see your proof!



                  I never said I deny the possibility of the existence of a god.  Please stop creating straw man fallacies.



                  Again, I never said that I was not indoctrinated.  My father was a Pentecostal minister.  I went to a public school that held devotion every morning.  I went to church regularly, and I was SAVED at the age of 10.  I LOVED GOD!  You want to try that from another angle?  I was not "indoctrinated" to be a non-believer.  One sheds this nonsense after obtaining a conviction for intellectual honesty.



                  Now that is sheer desperation!  And disturbingly DISHONEST!



                  So any other gods, such as Vishnu, Thor, Epona, Ra, Allah, etc., are imaginary, right?!



                  You are no better off than I am.  Just suppose that when you die, you find out that The Amazon Jungle God is actually the real God.  You could be in DEEP trouble trying to explain why you didn't believe in him.

                3. JMcFarland profile image72
                  JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  additionally (and how did I miss this the first time I read it) You are using the argument from incredulity as well as the argument from ignorance fallacies in your statements when you describe the universe. 

                  Even if you used a debunked apologist claim like TAG to claim the necessity for god, you AT MOST can get someone to accept the possibility that a god may have existed - not which one.  You can't simply jump from science to "therefore god".  It's god of the gaps, as soon as there's something you don't know how to explain, god did it.  The problem here is that "god" could be substituted with "magic" or "bigfoot" or the flying spaghetti monster.  You cannot demonstrate the necessity for YOUR god.  Period.  Not to mention that TAG has been repeatedly debunked. 

                  You also danced around Pascal's Wager towards the end, without actually saying it.  But you're appealing to emotion, and all but saying "what if you're wrong".  Well, what if YOU'RE wrong.  There have been thousands and thousands of gods throughout history, but you don't worry about the consequences if one of THEM is the real god, and yours is imaginary.

                4. profile image0
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  "Who shall I say sent me?" He answered, "I AM, that I AM." A statement totally understood by all those who have experienced deep meditation, whether of a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu,  or any other mystic persuasion.  The "I Am," the pure center of our being, unchanging, infinite, and the fountain of all understanding and consciousness.  Jesus himself is reported as speaking of this sublime awareness.  In fact this was the essence of His message, time and time again.

                  Unfortunately the average person expounding christianity has skirted around it and denies its reality.

                  " I would rather be pathetic and right than pathetic and wrong when I come to the end of my life ...."

                  Sorry to disappoint you, but at the end of your life, there is Nothing!   You will not be aware of whether you were "right" or "wrong," because there is no consciousness for the person calling him/herself Icimarik. "I Am" refers to existence, in the here and now, infinite because it cannot be measured, instantaneous and not extending anywhere, backwards, forwards, up or down, past or future. 

                  In this moment, in meditation, you can find the True God, True Love, True Consciousness, One-ness with the Universe. There is no need for you to worry about anything after your death.  Just concentrate, as much as you are able, on doing the right thing by everyone else who is living around you in this here and now.  When that death comes you will have left it too late.

                  Only one eye needs to be opened.....The Inner One.

                  1. profile image52
                    Robertr04posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Excellent points Jonny. I may be wrong, but I think Icimarik was referring to the Ressurection ( which is the core of the believers faith, at least mine) when he mentioned awareness after death. You are quite right, the dead are concious of nothing, no dead loved ones looking down or up, for that matter. Christians also fail to read Ex.3:15. The Name of the Father is clearly stated. From the original Hebrew Scriptures,(15) And Alahym said further to M'shah,"Thus you shall say to the children of Yashar'al, Yahuah Alahym of your fathers, the Alahym of Abraham, the Alahym of Yatsaq, and theAlahym Y'aqb, has sent me to you. This is my Name forever, and this is my remembrance to all generations". They ( Christians) read a book that has removed His Name 7,000 times and replaced it with "god" and "lord" etc., but they STILL (not shouting) do not understand the importance of His true Name. Having said this, I can truly appreciate the wisdom in your words.

              2. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                somebody forgot to take their little pills

        3. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Excellent observation. Jesus told us that the world hates him and will hate those of us who follow. He said that we shouldn't be afraid of this.

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's more indoctrination talking.

            1. profile image52
              lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Yours?

        4. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Agreed - Christianity causes nothing but conflict. Any time you have people who refuse to learn because they have a majik voice telling them what to do - you are going to get conflicts. This is the real reason the religion causes so many fights. It is easy - say the majik words and you are a self righteous believer with god on your side. No wonder there have been so many religious wars.

          See: History.

          1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
            Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            what relgious wars mark

            1. JMcFarland profile image72
              JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              ever cracked open a history book?

              1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                the only war of religion that I can remember in the last 100 yrs. iraq and afgan,the rest was started by athist

                1. JMcFarland profile image72
                  JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  yeah okay.  Which wars are you claiming were started by "Atheists"?

                  Religion has existed for thousands of years in many competing forms.  Why are you limiting it to 100 years?  You're missing the best parts - like the crusades.

                  1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                    Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    christians did not start that war it was the muslims

                  2. dianetrotter profile image61
                    dianetrotterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    From what I understand about the crusades, Catholics were involved.  While Catholicism is conidered Christian because of belief in the birth, death and resturrection of Christ, there is no individual decision made to become a Christian.  It is all about being a Catholic.  Christian crusades should possibly be called Catholic crusades.

                2. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Would you agree Hitler started WW2? If so, Hitler was a documented Christian hell bent of punishing the Jews for what they did to Jesus.

                  1. Vladimir Uhri profile image59
                    Vladimir Uhriposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Sir, it was our sin who crucified Jesus,

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to be indoctrinated or that you're unable to think for yourself, but that doesn't mean you're speaking about things as you see them, you aren't, you've been indoctrinated to speak that way.



      Uh, those reasons have been presented to you ad nauseum throughout your posting history here. How soon they forget.



      So that one day you might understand the indoctrination that has enslaved you. With many posts here, responses to your posts may be for the benefit of others who read them, considering those who respond may very well know you can't be convinced of anything beyond your belief system, that no amount of facts or evidence would ever change your mind.



      Yes, we know. So, don't be so surprised or shocked at more of the same.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        And you are the loudest.
        We are not taken-aback by your rantings smile You are the one who flinches wink I am totally different from the way I was indoctrinated. Remember??? I have searched for what I consider the true messages. They often do not agree with the lies ai was told as a kid. But, the children (answered many times and denied) and indoctrination (answered many times and denied) are your strongpoints. Your ONLY strongpoints. That is why you cling to that. Stable? I don't think so, but you can stand right there for the rest of your days. I, on the other hand, will stand right here. God is good. He cares for 10cent birds smile we don't.

      2. MsJunieB profile image61
        MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        No wonder A Troubled Man is troubled he has been as indoctrinated as claims you are just with an alternate opinion on religion.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry, but I don't speak gibberish, could you please translate that into English?

          1. aries3296 profile image60
            aries3296posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Happiness comes from within and should be proactive daily practice.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Was that what she said? Kewl.

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Ha ha ha ha. I didn't see that one coming.

          2. MsJunieB profile image61
            MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I said you are as indoctrinated in your opinion as you say genaea is in Christianity. You are saying nothing Christians haven't heard for years, yet we still believe.

    3. secularist10 profile image59
      secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There are several things going on here.

      Firstly, you said "because I believe in Jesus as the savior, I speak of it often."

      Then you said: "I am not the ultra pushy evangelizer who will visit you at your home uninvited"

      You don't have to be "ultra-pushy" to stimulate controversy. You certainly have the right to share your beliefs in a public forum, but others also have the right to challenge them.

      If you don't want to open yourself to a challenge, follow the lead of the Amish or the Orthodox Jews--they don't speak publicly of their beliefs at all, and nobody cares.

      Second, on this:
      "I am convinced of my position. Are you not convinced of yours?"

      One does not have to be tormented with an inner self-doubt to challenge someone they disagree with. I suppose if someone loudly spoke out against Jesus and the Bible in a public forum, you would have something to say about it. Does that mean you are "not convinced" of your position?

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Actually, no. I feel that people have rights to their own beliefs. If I see someone speaking loudly against Jesus, or what I believe, I keep walking. Here, i am visited by the opposition. Now, ultra-pushy Christians, to me, do violate rights. Knocking on my door to spread the "gospel" is not polite in my opinion. But maybe some would not hear w/o that that type of evangelism at all. God knows best. I just wonder why the name Jesus causes so much anger and bitterness. But, my answer is quite clear. Had I taken more time to think before asking my question, I would have heard the Spirit say, "Because Satan has many more followers" much earlier. The name Jesus is scary to the adversary. He don't want it uttered. I get that now.

        1. secularist10 profile image59
          secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Again, this is a public forum. Not a private one. You have the right to voice your opinion publicly, and others do as well. It's a two-way street.

          Knocking on people's doors may be impolite, but it is not a violation of anyone's rights. If somebody doesn't like living in a pluralistic society, I guess they can always go live on a compound in the woods where everyone thinks the same way (such as the Amish or the Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Mormons as I mentioned).

          The name "Jesus" certainly doesn't bother me. In fact, I use it all the time in various situations. smile

          The problem for many is the self-righteous, demeaning holier-than-thou tone of much of Christianity.

          As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians."

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Well, the name Jesus (or whatever your language prefers) is, for sure the hot topic. Yes, this is a public forum. I did not say that it wasn't. I only said that we CHOOSE what we respond to. We may read the topic even before reading the first line of any topic. Me? I CHOOSE to stick to subjects that I am interested in. I am not interested in stuff that I do not believe in. So, we have two options in this case, for your behavior. Either you don't believe in God and you "just came to tell me how ridiculous I am", which says a lot about you as a person; or, you want to believe, so you come to be convinced. Which species art thou??? smile

            1. secularist10 profile image59
              secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              No, I don't think anybody cares about the name "Jesus." It's just a word.

              It's about the reputation that many Christians have created for themselves through their behavior in pluralistic societies. That's what Gandhi pointed out.

              The problem today is caused by Evangelicals trying to teach creationism in public schools, trying to impose their moral values on others through government fiat, etc. That angers a lot of people who don't share those values. That is why many non-Christians have a bad image of your religion.

              I didn't come to "tell you how ridiculous you are," I came to answer your question in the OP. Whether you receive it (good Christian term) or not, is up to you.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Keep watching. The name Jesus is powerful. The name upsets the world. For sure, some have misinterpreted or misconstrued the words he spoke in an attempt to push selfish agenda, but that cannot be attributed to Jesus or God. They agree. We must find a way to agree along those lines, if we are spiritual. Since you were kind enough to answer my question, so far away from your comfort zone, I thank you. Your opinion on this matter is greatly appreciated! I know it must have taken a lot out of you to come to a Christian discussion to share your views.
                Fyi...not all Christians are going to hell smile for sure, quite a few of us will be first in line because of our disloyalty. But you seem to be labeling, stigmatizing, and being quite prejudicial. Not ALL of any group are the same.

                1. secularist10 profile image59
                  secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I appreciate your kind words. But there's no stigmatizing or prejudice here, just analysis and explanation. You asked, so I answered. As a Christian, you may not quite get just how intrusive and tiring the religious right have been in the US (although not recently, since economic issues are the dominant theme in the election today). But it's real. To say nothing of the general pervasive Christian motifs in public life in this country, from "in God we trust" on the currency to "God bless America" at the end of every political speech.

                  Take a look through my hubs (you are welcome to comment because I do not discourage people who disagree with me). You will see I've studied these issues extensively and have plenty of information behind my opinions. Yes, there are many fine, humble, tolerant Christians. No doubt. But there are also many prejudicial, hateful, self-righteous and oppressive.

                  So if you want to understand why so many non-Christians have such animosity, often emotional and irrational, you must understand the very real situation in the public square in this country.

                  Now, if we look at Europe, we see a totally different situation. There, there is no "religious right" per se, no large groups of Christians actively try to impose themselves on broader society, and religious belief is nowhere near as significant in culture or (certainly) politics. Populations are much more secular. As a result, there is not the highly-charged atmosphere around religion or Christianity as there is here.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    From what I have gathered, Christians are persecuted just about everywhere. We are pretty much free to express our Christianity here; as we are free to express strict non belief. However, it seems that God has been a force in this country at least as long as I have been alive. I have never seen an American coin w/o the phrase you mentioned. As well, the phrase at the end of political speeches that you mentioned has been uttered at least since I have been here (close to 40 years). The oppression of Christianity is a NEW phenomenon in this country.  We have decided that there is too much freedom for the Christian within our borders??? No MORE room for God??? We are tired of Spirit now??? We are irritated by words on the money that we spend NOW??? We hate our pledge NOW because it includes the words "one nation under God"??? I remember saying "the pledge" in grammar school. I also remember some not being ABLE to say it, until EVERYONE was UNABLE to say it. Now, Americans who joined this country or were born in it, like our freedoms, but don't like our God???  So they keep freedom (which came from our belief in God) and want to "chuck" the reason for the freedom??? smile you laughing yet???

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Wanna move to Europe???

              2. MsJunieB profile image61
                MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                The problem with creationism is not evangelical. The problem is Both Theories were taught until recently when someone decided to forget that they were called Theories not a conclusive scientific fact. Creationism doesn't disprove evolution and evolution doesn't disprove creationism. They can coexist.
                There was the statement in the '70s that we were going to lose our little fingers and little toes because we had evolve to a place where we don't need them any more. Has this come to pass. No, does that mean that evolution is a myth? Of course not.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  How does that work considering Creationism states that all living things were placed here by God in the form they're in today?

                  1. A Troubled Woman profile image59
                    A Troubled Womanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Well caught!  lol

              3. profile image52
                lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Non-Christians have a bad view of Christians partly because of their misunderstanding of Christianity. Ghandi, as an accuser of the brethren is agreeing with Satan (adversary). The world at large has no clue what it means to be a Christian yet, they judge Christians. But, their judgment is based on what they think a Christian should be like- they disregard our individuality, personality, and level of maturity within the faith.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Gandhi, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ."

                  “If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today,”

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I love that statement. Ghandi and his people were kind, giving, compassionate and just about everything else that Christ was. smile i have not studied them, but what I have heard speaks volumes. Ghandi probably looks as Christ did. He had the look of contentment, and peace. His pictures always bring a smile to my face.
                    The Christians, for some reason, miss the messages on pride, selfishness, greed, especially greed, haughty spirit, and did I say pride? They take the scriptures and manipulate the context to appeal to wealth and false justification. I know. sad  I watched it a lot.
                    But as for thinking about the God I know, uncritically, I don't think is allowed. The bible told us to study for our own benefit. But it did not say to study Aristotle; but study the word of God.
                    I had to do that, contradiction was getting to be too much for me. So, I sat down, prayed to the father for his spirit to understand. Once I focused on contradiction #1. "God wants to bless you with riches!!!! But you gotta "prove him now!" You give to him, and he will give to you!!!
                    Well, Jesus said, it's gon' be hard for rich people to get to heaven. Hmmmm...
                    Somebody lyin'; and I KNOW it aint Jesus. "Let me understand this, Lord," was my prayer. When I read the scriptures on "prosperity" and I read a little further down each time, I realized that "prosperity" is viewed mostly as spiritual in nature. NOT financially. Greed will make you change scripture around. Knowing God who owns everything, is the best thing in life.  AND IT'S FREE!!! smile. Some of us do not know how to handle riches. God knows who to entrust with such a responsibility. Money makes most people feel as if God is unneccessary. "Pray for what??? I got erthang I wont!" (Such deception)
                    God knows who is who. Many other so-called contradictions are also cleared up completely with simply reading a little bit further down the page.
                    The bible is solid. Study it for yourself.

                  2. profile image52
                    lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Ghandi's quote lumps "Christians" into one big mass. It assumes that all behave the same way. Had he said, "... I do not like some Christians" that would have been a fair, intelligent response to Christianity. Not all who claim Christianity are Christians. Also, the world view of what a Christian should be like is based largely on opinion alone. Before judging a Christian, perhaps one should read the Bible in its entirety as that is what governs the Christian life. Most who are quick to point out perceived flaws in the walk of a Christian have not the foggiest idea of what being a Christian is truly all about.They forget that even Jesus ran the money exchangers out of the temple court yard with cords He had braided together. It was Jesus who proclaimed that we have it wrong if we think He came to bring peace. It was Jesus who said if anyone loves the world, the love for God is not in them. Ghandi and many others think Christianity and God for that matter, is all tip-toe through the posies and smile while you're doing it. A Christian can feed the world and lose his/her temper and all the unbelieving world would notice is that he/she lost his/her temper. Being a Christian is not being an emotional super hero, it is a journey and we learn as we walk it. We are not perfect people, we are forgiven people who agree with God that we are in need of a Savior. A true Christian realizes their struggle with sin and they do so not because Ghandi or anyone else points it out, but because their love for God and His love returned moves them.

                2. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Sounds good to me. I believe Ghandi was very much like Christ himself. Christians do get stupid. I may even have MY moment from time to time. smile It is not our actions but our faith. The SAME can apply for all.
                  Jesus realized our disadvantage in dealing with self. TOO MANY "SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS" are galloping around on their HIGH-horses and doing exactly what biblical believers were told by Jesus NOT to do. Judgment is reserved. Thinking you are something when you are really nothing is deception. We ALL are missing the "mark" of perfection. To turn up one's nose at anyone is a PRIDE stolen. Jesus pointed out clearly that NO ONE can "cast the first stone" but him, and not even he threw a stone at anyone beside the people of the church. He actually fought with them. smile 
                  People forget that God's mercy MUST extend to ; even themselves.

    4. secularist10 profile image59
      secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thirdly, I guess Christians have a hard time understanding why people view their belief system as ridiculous. So here is a thought experiment:

      *Christianity claims that a man was born to a virgin woman. Humans cannot be born to virgins. This violates laws of biology and physiology.

      *Christianity claims that a man converted water into wine. This is impossible, and violates a number of physical laws.

      *Christianity claims that a man died, and came back to life. This is also impossible. No living thing can die and come back to life, so this violates basic physical and biological laws.

      There's more where that came from, but that's enough for now.

      So imagine someone loudly declared they had found the "truth." You would ask, what is this truth? And they reply: 10,000 years ago, a man got pregnant and gave birth to a child named Zorba. Zorba grew up, transformed a chicken into an elephant (among other things), and when he died, instead of falling over dead, he melted and became a puddle of mud.

      You see how his story violates the same physical and biological laws as the Jesus story. You would be forgiven if you burst out laughing when this person with the "truth" told this story with a straight face. You would also be forgiven for seeing that individual as unintelligent and fooled by ancient superstition.

      Whatever else Zorba said, did, his message, his example, etc, will not make up for the ridiculous claims made about his life.

      Christians who want to enter the public forum should be prepared for being seen as pushing a hilarious belief system.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I understand what you mean. My faith believes the miracles you mentioned. It is ok with me that you don't. Call me crazy! I can handle that too smile. Zorba is imaginative. Jesus is not. Believe with all your heart or chuck it all out the window. Your rights are protected too.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          That's why your beliefs have no credibility, you place above one imaginative character above all others.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Alright already!!! wink
            P. S. A.:
            Ladies and Gentlemen, lend me your ear!  ATM does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God is the powerful almighty.
            Thisinfoissubjecttochangeattheslightestofnotice smile
            Better???

      2. MsJunieB profile image61
        MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You do not know that "virgins" have babies? There has been research done by the medical profession that some woman get pregnant without the conventional description of sex. They are intact physically there for virgins. It doesn't happen often, but a medical doctor used this as an argument against Christians because it meant Jesus wasn't a miracle. His mother had a rare form of pregnancy, but it was not a one time occurrence.
        By the way I am a Christian and this article did not shake my faith. The comments in argument are the same by most nonbelievers: If Christians were better people I would believe them or check out their belief. If we were better people we wouldn't need Jesus we could save ourselves. That is exactly why we are Christians because we all fall short of expectations.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Could anything shake your faith?

          I wouldn't believe them if Christians were better people. The entire story is nonsense. The fact that Christians are not better people just means that they don't actually believe it either. wink

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's always been my thought that most Christians don't actually believe what they say. The proof is in the pudding.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Exactly. You can bet your life if I genuinely thought I was going to be burned in hell for committing a sin - I would be sin free. These guys obviously don't believe it.

              They just want you to. wink

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                At the very least Christians would certainly be free of unwed mothers and adultery. Sadly that  is not the case.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Nope! wink Read the entire bible, especially the words of Jesus. smile pay particilar attention to the phrase, "Let he who is without sin..."  God is the ultimate peacemaker wink man "takes note" of all your downfalls wink God looks beyond...  You find forgiveness and grace too smile or don't. smile

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Let me get this through my thick skull. You think you can commit as much sin as you like. Throw away the 10 commandments, murder, adultery if you like, but as long you say you believe in Jesus, your in.

                    Is that why there are so many Christians in Jail?

              2. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Oooooohhhh! Hell is the fear???  Guess what... "There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."
                Remember the criminal who died at Jesus' side? His crooked and probably filthy existence here on earth, was tranformed into pure acceptability in "paradise" because he believed, 1 minute before his death. He had no time to "be" good. His belief would have perfected him, and that is all that is important to God. Just be "willing" to hear and obey. Humans cannot be "good" no matter how hard they try!!! Faith in Jesus is key. God looks at your heart. The bible says, "Out if the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." If you say what Jesus said, he can be seen (by God) in your heart. But you gotta believe it. Again, God reads the heart. If you TRULY mean to follow, it gets easier and easier, bit by bit. Never to perfection. God did not provide us with perfection. It is found in Jesus.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Of course it get easier and easier to believe. I've seen people believe there own lies once they tell them enough.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Have you seen it, first, in yourself?

                2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh - I know - it doesn't matter how bad Christians are - they get the free pass.

                  I am good. Please stop lying about me - thanks.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Ok smile

            2. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              SOMEBODY SAY PUDDING? i loooove puddin' smile

          2. MsJunieB profile image61
            MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You don't get it Mark. No one can be sin free. We are human and have free choice. We aren't as indoctrinated as people seem to believe or we would not speed, complain about taxes or our Presidents. I hate seeing cars with Christian ids on them. If they cut me off in traffic or run a red light, I always cringe because I know it is another reason for a non-Christian to say, "See they don't believe their own nonsense. They are worse than me."

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              No - your beliefs are nonsense. As in- they make no sense at all. And you clearly don't believe or you would indeed be sin free. Eternity in hell for sinning? You don't believe it.

              I am sin free, thanks for asking. wink

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Mark, are you a believer or no? I think you have flipped a time or two.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You can't tell that I don't believe?

                  No - never believed it even when I was having it stuck to me at Church School. It is nonsense - sorry. Even you cannot properly put it into words. wink

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Oh. Ok.

            2. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Right. When you are looking to condemn, you are condemned already. People forget that though. It is by our own standards that we are judged. Now I see why the most judgmental, find it hard to believe the message. They would condemn themselves.
              The love of God is not rigid. He knows what he created.

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I enjoy reading and listening to people who all have there own version of God that neatly reflects what they need. "Murder, adultery, swearing, those are not big sins, God forgives those."

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  God forgives ALL sin. 'Cept blasphemy of the holy spirit.

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I guess that's another thing you don't do. Your good to do what ever you like on earth to get into heaven. I'm not saying you do these things but you can steal, murder, have affairs with married men, lie, sell drug and do drugs. You've got yourself covered.

          3. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Falsehood!!! But I aint surprised. smile

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, it's called In Vitro Fertilization.



          And, the explanation for that is...?

          1. MsJunieB profile image61
            MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, there is a man and a woman, but they never go all the way. The sperm is deposited at the entrance and we all know they can swim. I know things are pretty lacks now days, but I don't know what is acceptable language so I don't want to go into to much detail. Girls can't believe they are pregnant because physically they are still virgins.
            Rad Man, she was betrothed which is like an engagement and they didn't live together until after she was pregnant.

        3. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          We are also expected to believe she was a married virgin. Newly married people usually take care of that rather fast.

        4. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The "church" gave the world "the finger" and shook it til people were afraid to say yes to God. So much "fear and trembling, fire and brimstone" caused too much fear.
          Jesus is not "out to get" anyone. He is loving, he is kind, he is merciful, and he is here. Proof???
          Uh-uh my brother, YOU'VE got to get your own. smile

        5. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          In my opinion, this is a terrible way for adults to negotiate life.  Frightening.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Opinion? Yep, everybody's got one. Wanna hear mine?

            1. getitrite profile image73
              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              No

      3. profile image52
        lcimarikposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You have taken God who made and sustains the laws of physics and all other laws that govern nature out of the equation- if He made the laws, certainly He can suspend them.

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Once again your comment is proof of your indoctrination because of the fact that you are unwilling to look at the events described in the bible critically.

        2. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          God was never in the equation in the first place.  It is the blind indoctrinated believer who foolishly believe that it is logical to presuppose a god.



          Imaginary beings are IMAGINARY, therefore they can''t make or suspend ANYTHING.

    5. profile image0
      Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yep the hot topic button is right.

      Like you I am convinced of my position and can understand how you feel. I respect everyone’s right to their beliefs and to worship how they choose. However, I do think those beliefs end where my nose starts and that goes for everyone and I feel bombarded sometimes.

      I get, mail, a knock on the door, or a TV ad every day inviting me to their church. It is never from a Catholic, Jew, Muslim or one of the many other religions in this country or on this planet, it is always from the same small branch of the Protestant church, that seem to be on every corner of our small town, there seems to be a church for every 10 people and they have decided they are the minority who are going to rule the majority and by rule I mean THEIR RULES.

      I do not want to live in theocracy of any kind nor do I want someone trying to push their beliefs on me, convert me or remind me I am doomed if I do not believe as they do. Especially people who do not know me nor have any idea what I believe in.

      My advice…  next time your religious beliefs come up for discussion just smile and walk away, and remind them your beliefs are yours, no further discussion necessary. It works for me.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Oh, see... You have a much different outlook than I. I am here, asking a question. You may choose to disregard or engage. Why engage to tell me you don't believe me? Why not YOU who is the one to walk away? I make clear what the subject is. I align my question to those who want to respond. Where is the bombardment there? I aint stopping at no KKK forums. I don't believe in their cause. I won't intrude on anyone's Satan revival, or stop by any wizard of Oz praise and worship services. I am approached in most cases though. I am accused of insanity. I am called silly names. But I have nothing but the messages of the bible. I don't need to call you an idiot in order to get my point across. I just wonder if people notice how angry people get when the name Jesus is uttered. Lights a fire under many. But, the bible did say that it would. No wonder smile

        1. profile image0
          Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Ooopppss my mistake, I thought you were asking why people were being ugly to you when you talk about Jesus and I answered to that but after, reading your answers to others I realize you swing a mean bible and I have a headache already. LOL... so I will mossy on along...

          But in closing I don't get angry when the name Jesus is uttered... I am a great fan of the man! In fact my favorite quote is from Ghandi is" I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ghandi speaks truth. A lot of Christians are missing the message as well. Thanks for stopping by, have a great evening! smile

            1. profile image0
              Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              And how do you know that you aren't one of the Christians that is missing the mark?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Faith and "blessed assurance"

            2. Vladimir Uhri profile image59
              Vladimir Uhriposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Ghandi is dead, Jesus is alove and well.

    6. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Genaea, keep on loving and serving God.  You and I know that he is real and what He has done in our lives.  Christianity has not had the greatest reputation, I agree.  Not because God is not God, but the we are sometime poor representatives of a perfect God. 

      As a Christian, I believe we sometime talk too much and mirror too little of the true nature of God.  The scripture says, "By your fruit you will know them."    The most powerful witness, can often be the one that is silent!  Actions do speak louder than words. 

      Concerning the ridiculousness of what Christians believe...The nature of faith is just that, faith...the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  It does not have to make sense, It is the reality of the one who is believing.  It does not have to be justified, nor proven to be true, merely believed.  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14.   So, until you accept that He is God, you can never know, or understand God.  Kind of a catch 22.

      I was an agnostic, then an atheist, in a cult that sacrificed animals, mocked Christians and their beliefs, the whole gambit.  In all that I was still searching for something real, something greater than myself.  I found that in a personal relationship with God, through His son Jesus.  Genaea, it is OK, if people do not believe what we believe, or if they are offended by the name of the one who set us free.   Unbelief and offense, is their prerogative.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes. The word is true and I thank you for pointing out that scripture. It was needed. My walk is not of arguing down the so-called opposition; but of illuminating the truth of the word for those who may be confused by false information. It is not a weight too heavy for me. These conversations have purpose for those who question and seek to know where truth is. Or better yet, have an ear to hear. They may not speak, but they are listening. They need to hear the truth. It is promised that they would.

      2. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Whoa... I completely missed your last paragraph the last time! What a testament. Tell it. How else can they hear (of the miracles and actual realities)? Not for "them" but for "the others".
        In the body, there are many parts. This is part of my "part" smile  I enjoy telling the truth. Those who are spiritual agree. Those who are seeking have info. Those who mind, don't matter. God is the author and finisher of my faith too. I am grateful. And I have the ability to articulate what I have learned; in spirit. I am comfortable here.

        1. psycheskinner profile image66
          psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          And others feel free to articulate their truths.  That is how civil society works.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Civil is a relative term. I think it is rude/ barbaric to "interrupt" a conversation to say what YOU think about the matter being discussed. Especially when all you input is a rejection. Mommy said, "if you aint got nutn nice to say, button it!!! smile
            As I said before, i dont mind. But I want to be sure we agree first on who the rude and pushy intruder is. smile

            1. psycheskinner profile image66
              psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society

              And I think a civil discussion is one where each person is given equal rights and courtesies.  So if one person gets to spontaneously talk about Jesus, the other gets to reply saying why they think he is mythical.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                That is fine. However, did you notice that you and I were not discussing. You "encountered" a conversation in full-swing. It "grabbed your ear" and you stopped to INTERJECT objections. For sure you have a right in this forum. But me being kind and non-pushy will not stop at an OP of which I have no interest. Otherwise, I am LOOKING for an argument. Jesus was not that way. Neither are those who look to him for guidance. He don't "swing" that way smile kind, gentle, loving, peaceful, humble, POWERFUL smile

      3. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        lol It's quite hilarious when Christians claim they were once atheists, then they talk as if they haven't had a rational or logical thought their entire lives.

    7. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's not your belief in God people object to. Nobody really cares what goes on in your head. It's when you think your christian values should be everyone's values that you get objections. It's when you justify slavery for the bettering of a christian nation that people question your intelligence.

      Listen to yourself going on a on about being bombarded with objections to your faith. It works both ways, it's dialogue. I had a conversation with one of my sons (15 years old) last night where he was telling me that hollywood has sold out and hollywood has lost it's integrity because they are making a dark (more like batman) Ironman movie. He got upset when I told him hollywood never had integrity and it's always and always will be about money. He became emotional and was stomping away when I told him that I'm just giving my opinion and he is still able to articulate his. He came back and we chatted some more. My point is stop making yourself out to be victimized. It's just conversation.

      1. psycheskinner profile image66
        psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Indeed.  No one has the right to be agreed with.  Just to be met with the level of civility they show others.

      2. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I an not making myself out to be anything. I pointed out that I am often the "victim" of rudeness and silliness because of my faith. I am ok with it.

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          And I'm telling you it's not because of your faith. If it's not you faith what could it be?

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            My "innate" ignorance??? smile

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Nope, but keep going.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                My friendly smile??? smile

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I have no objection to your friendly smile, no objection at all.

      3. RichusFridum profile image60
        RichusFridumposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Rad Man is absolutely right. People are so sensitive when someone disagrees with their opinions or beliefs. If you are solid in your "faith" it would be of no great matter that people object to what you think.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you for reiterating my solidity of faith smile those who mind do not matter. I find it amusing that people are so enraged by my faith. Funny! Very, very funny!
          For example, when I read the OP, God is Fake! Don't you agree??? I have nothing to say. This OP is ignored. I just have no interest in that discussion. But it is not so with my non-believing brothers and sisters. I find that they always stop by to tell me how crazy I sound smile no sweat. But it seems like pushing your hand into a meat grinder to me, that is painful I think smile at the very least, inconvenient.

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            There we go!!!!!!! You can only see your side of the argument. You think all these people are trying to make you look or feel silly, but you don't notice that you think your nation is a Christian nation and if other American's don't like it they should leave.

            1. psycheskinner profile image66
              psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Oh, the terrible pain of interacting with people who are different from me! Woe! Gnashing of teeth!

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Everyone is out to get me boo hoo. I should disagree with others, but they are not allowed to disagree with me.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Again, I was here minding my own business. Out of nowhere...insult "storm". And I am the one called pushy and inconsiderate of others' viewpoint. smile funnyfunnyfunny:)

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I don't see an insult. Where?

              2. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Also, there are so many things that are more important. I don't need approval, just as much right to be "here" (Radman) as anyone else.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That's what we have been trying to tell you.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Oh??? I thought you were telling me that I should "suck it up".  I thought you were saying that I should not speak upon my faith because it adds too much strife to the world around me. My bad smile

            2. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Not true. I see the arguments from all sides. No one can make me feel anything. I know who I am. I know who I belong to. But I do get "personal" objections. Not just "your God is fake" but "you are ignorant and can't think for yourself and stuff like that smile not from Christians though.

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I get all kinds of personal objections. I have been personally physically threatened by a Christian who didn't think I should talk about the bible and slavery. You're not he only one.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm the only one HERE. smile no problem though. I don't mind being the "odd-ball" I think it becomes me. smile

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You're the only one here? You just accused me of insulting you and when I asked where the insult was you told me to chill.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            http://religion.lilithezine.com/images/The-Politics-of-Religion-05.jpg

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Where's the like button?

            2. Mandrake_1975 profile image78
              Mandrake_1975posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Where is the cartoon depicting the science of war, the science used to develop weapons, the science used to destroy the environment, the arguments concerning technology and its destruction of the environment, etc.?  The "religion kills people" argument is full of so many holes it is "cheesy".

    8. Mandrake_1975 profile image78
      Mandrake_1975posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You speak of indoctrination, yet I think many atheists and theists are just that - indoctrinated.  Most individuals today who identify themselves as either atheists or theists have read something somewhere that sounds "good" to them and they go on repeating it (Richard Dawkins comes to mind - a man who thinks philosophy, which science is necessarily based on, is no longer of value), rather than looking deeper into the question(s) formed.

      I think individuals interested in the topic of metaphysics need to truly understand what they are getting into and ask: where does logic come from and what is it based upon?  Can something come from nothing (I mean, truly nothing, not just some other dimension or portion of the multiverse or even a God making something from nothing which is not Deity)? If all things are random then how do we explain "emergence" and ex nihilo, nihilo fit?  Where do morals and ethics come from and what happens to society if we take that foundation away?  Can mathematics as information and consciousness explain the mind-body problem?  If philosophy, which is the foundation of science (based upon its various conclusions), is deemed worthless because we now have science, then what does that say for science once we take its foundation (a priori) away and downgrade the importance of its foundational findings which cannot ever be proven by the scientific method (see Laws of Thought)?  Is it easier to believe in an infinite number of universes which cannot be seen or one intelligent being which cannot be seen, logically, or do we just chuck the invisible intelligent being in the "discard bin" and accept the less likely (in my mind) "infinite" number of invisible universes theory?  What does life and purpose mean to a society under the various philosophical conclusions and are the supposed "true" answers actually worth revealing in the end, especially when we realise that by taking God out of the equation "truth" is nowhere near as solid a concept as we once thought?

      There are plenty of questions which can be asked, which will make people think on both sides, and make them think really hard if the correct questions are asked and points are raised.  It is not as simple as some think, and one faith, Christianity, is just one system which needs to defend itself against a mass of logical conclusions which one may come to based upon what we know we are capable of knowing.

      For instance, in my mind, the Christian doctrine of creatio ex nihilo is just as insane and illogical as most atheist conclusions and I reject it outright as absurd because it is obvious that "from nothing, nothing comes"; therefore if God exists all which is, must be created from a part of God because if it was not, then God violates logic, and knowing my philosophy; therefore, violates the very rationing which leads us to philosophically believe in God in the first place (anything created must come from a Creator) - making creatio ex deo more logical.

      My point is, that most people have not taken the time to develop their own philosophy and from there their theology (whether they realize they need to develop a theology for their "beliefs" or not - likely because they "believe" they have no "beliefs"; therefore, most have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to these topics.

      I guess what I am saying is that it is really two things: 1) Christianity and monotheistic religions are dominant and therefore will get the brunt of arguments; and 2) most on both sides have no clue what the "root" of their thinking is.  If you doubt that last statement then ask a Christian to both "theologically" and "philosophically" demonstrate their assertions, and an intelligent man will usually find them stumbling at some point (or at least admitting mere "belief"), In the same light, ask an atheist to "demonstrate" their assertions or alternatives scientifically (the smart ones, who should actually be agnostics if honest will avoid this) and you will eventually (given intelligent questions to their responses) find them fumbling about much the same.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Wow - that is an awful lot of words to say nothing.

        Can you show me some "insane," atheist conclusions please. Personally - I hate being labelled A-theist, simply because I don't accept that there can be a god. Am I an A-golfer because I don't play golf? No. Therefore the term "atheist," should not exist.

        And - how can you study metaphysics? lol

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Atheists are still working on their "conclusions" smile
          Now to me, that is insane.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            LOL

            Better take the majik then - quick before you get befuddled. wink

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Got it smile

      2. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Way too much much for me to comment on. I can tell you I became a non-believer all on my own. I was about 13 years old and this whole God thing kept me up at night. The logic just doesn't make any sense was my conclusion. You argue that all this could not have come from nothing, but you don't use that same logic to understand the God you believe in. We are told be knows everything and has always been and always will be. Ask yourself where did he come from? You are quick to say we had to come from somewhere, use that same logic to explain everything even God.

        "Is it easier to believe in an infinite number of universes which cannot be seen or one intelligent being which cannot be seen, logically, or do we just chuck the invisible intelligent being in the "discard bin" and accept the less likely (in my mind) "infinite" number of invisible universes theory?"

        No one is sure that there are an infinite number of universes and no one is sure there is a God because both of those things are currently invisible to us. There are an infinite number of galaxies that we can see. Let's just say that if we can't see it or detect it we don't no for sure it's there.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Unless we truly listen to what's inside.
          Keeping you awake is a sure sign of unrest smile since you did not get your "answer" you chucked the idea. God is still there. You knew it that/ those night/s.  He speaks to you constantly. You just don't listen. Yry it just once.

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            God doesn't speak at all. If you look at the concept of a God you will see it asks more questions then it answers.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              He "doesn't speak to you" because you ignore, discount, and disregard. He is there. You just aint listening.

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I'm just not delusional. I will not start lying to myself so as to become deluded.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Yet... You are in a "TOOTH FAIRY" forum, right??? You have spent all this time to try and "convince" me that "she" is imaginary??? Yes??? Who is the confused one again???

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Wouldn't you like to know why a person would believe in the tooth fairy?

          2. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yep I once psyched myself into believing that I heard the voice of Jesus, but that was the beginning of psychosis.  I figured I could have just as easily heard the voice of Elvis, and got the same results...psychosis.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Then it is so for you. Why you "breakn my balls?" smile

        2. MsJunieB profile image61
          MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You all missed the point. We don't believe in God and Jesus because of anything we see it is by faith. You believed in Santa because you saw the results of that belief. If you stopped believing, what happened? You began to see things differently.
          We believe because of faith and the results we see from prayer. Miracles, I smashed both ankles, the main bone on each foot that joins the foot and leg bones. One consultant at the hospital said there was nothing he could do and left. The other, a Muslim, put pens in the left one because it was in 5 pieces but the right one was only for so he left it. He did not try to destroy my faith by telling me they wouldn't heal, he just kept avoiding the what if when the x-rays looked bad. I can walk, with pain, with severe arthritis, but I can walk. When I mentioned I had 3 churches praying for me I found out his group had prayed too. We agreed God healed me because there was not other explanation for my out come. I even had physical therapists say, when I was teaching kindergarteners to skip, that they couldn't believe I could do it after such severe breaks. How can I doubt God?

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You healed, kind of, where's the miracle.

          2. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Which is it? You have contradicted your self here. First you say you believe by faith and not anything you see -  then you claim you believe because you see miracles happen. If you consider pinning broken bones by medical doctors a miracle.

            Surprised you bothered going to a hospital in the first place.

          3. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly, kids begin to understand make believe, yet adult religious believers don't.



            Once again, we find believers not giving credit where credit is due. Why didn't God just heal you from the get go, why did you bother going to the hospital? Obviously, doctors are irrelevant when standing next to your faith.

            1. A Troubled Woman profile image59
              A Troubled Womanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              What an excellent catch! Mind boggling performance! The question is - why isn't G_d punctual? LOL!  lol

          4. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Just understand that you all agreed upon delusion and willful ignorance.
            At 22 it was determined that I had a heart defect.  Then at 26 I found myself admitted to ICU.  I was confined to the Cardiac ward for 2 weeks, were I didn't know if I would live or die.  The doctors did everything they could to figure out my prognosis.  Eventually I was able to leave the hospital, but about three years later, at 30 I had the worst attack ever.  The pain was so severe, I wanted to die.  I was admitted to the hospital, where I suspected I would expire.  The doctors could not stabilize my heartbeat, and the pain was unbearable.  I was angry that I was going to die young, but I hastened to just get it over with.  For over a week, every morning that I woke up I was totally surprised that I had not expired.  I also felt somewhat let down, because this meant I would have to go through the pain for yet another day.  It took over a month to regain my health, but I still knew that this disorder would recur.   But to my surprise, it has not occurred since...and that was over 20 years ago.  In fact, all recent medical test that I have taken, show no signs of any heart disease, and I am as youthful as people half my age.

            This has absolutely nothing to do with the silly, ancient myths, written thousands of years ago, by ignorant goat herders, because I never prayed, and during the whole time, while lying on my death bed, I never, once, changed my atheistic beliefs.  Credit goes to the medical professionals and chance.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              God rains on the just as well as the unjust. You don't say God healed you and just maybe, he did not.

              1. getitrite profile image73
                getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Your imaginary god didn't do anything.  to think that nonexistent entities can magically come to life and affect reality suggests a serious psychotic disconnect.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Now you sound like a broken record. smile
                  Will you please look inside yourself to see the psychological absurdity? You are adamantly arguing your "Tooth Fairy" points. smile how ridiculous!!!

                  1. getitrite profile image73
                    getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Only responding to your repetitive insane comments.  You keep inserting these irrelevant whimsical praises/attributions, of your delusional Jesus, into your responses, which I see as a symptom of an unbalanced state.  Your mindless praising of your invisible friend answers nothing.  You need to debate the real issues.  Just reminding you...that's all.  Christ Psychosis is unmerciful to the afflicted.

          5. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I know you believe because of blind faith. I was taught the same nonsense growing up. Blind faith is dangerous, it should not be taught to children because it opens them up to potential danger. How many children have been abused because of the blind faith of the children and of the parents?

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              At least one.
              Blind faith??? Why is it that people who READ scientific materials and agree, think that they do not work from a "blind faith" perspective??? Because the book said "scientifically proven?
              Why don't you understand that it takes just as much "faith" to believe the opposing view??? Cuz the books say proven scientific fact??? Get real with everyone. You have placed your faith in something else. None of us were there when any of it iccurred.  And not many of us know how the "calculations" were done. And couldn't do any of them if "they" walked you through the process.wink
              Oh, to be fooled by self wink

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You seem to think that all Atheists believe Science as opposed to religion. This is simply not he case. Science has nothing to do with my personal belief system. My disbelief in God has nothing to do with any science. Science explains the universe and has nothing to do with God. That being said all science can be tested. Starting up your computer is just the start. Explain electricity to me and do a few experiments you electricity can be touched. Blind faith is completely different. Would you let a pedophile babysit because he told you he won't touch her? That's one of the dangers of blind faith. It's dangerous.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You are missing the point. If you believe in whatever you believe be it evolution, creationism, buddhism, atheism, hinduism, sky diving...it ALL takes faith in something. Atheists, for starters, believe strictly based upon blind faith that God does not exist. Test all you want. Who verifies that the "test" was accurate? You? Doubt it smile be real for real.

                  1. getitrite profile image73
                    getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    And, of course, after science fails, the ONLY default that's rational would be to accept that Jesus Christ, through God, his father, is the creator of everything, and is the ultimate king of kings.  Right?  Also all shall bow before him one day, as he judges all for inclusion into the book of life.  Right?

                    O...k...makes sense to me...wait!

                  2. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I looked and look for evidence for a God, but there is none. The bible is full of flaws, the hospitals are full of people of every faith. Cancer doesn't discriminate by religion. Prayer doesn't work because if it did Christians would never get cancer.

      3. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Ok smile scientific knowledge and terminologies befuddle me smile I rarely take it in. Science and math are my weakest areas. I wonder if that is by design smile Thanks for the most "sensible" response to date. As I said before, it all depends upon where you place your faith smile the "church" says it like this, "whose report do you believe?"  The choir sings, " we shall believe the report of the Lord". smile

    9. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe the Jesus thing offends people who think you should be focusing on your God, instead of focusing on the story of your God. 
      Maybe you are seen as being unintelligent because you are too smug in your perceived rightness, with no room for doubt.  Doubt is one of the things that separates us from the animals.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        YES!!! I am do glad you said it smile people are upset with me because I am sure while they still search for answers. Funny phenomenon. People don't like me being sure about something that they daily question. I do understand that. Thanks for bringing that to light smile
        Call me whatsineva you want smile I am a child of the true king. smile

    10. profile image52
      syndecarterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Dear Genaea-
      The Bible tells us that we who follow Jesus Christ will be persecuted for our faith regardless of how gentle and respectful the delivery of the message is. Here in the Unites States we who love Him because we know Him are often shunned by others but in many parts of the world our dear brothers and sisters are being brutally massacred for it. Remember Genaea that there is a fierce battle taking place in this world that our human eyes cannot see. Although we cannot see it taking place it is very, very real. Gods Word speaks often about it and prepares us when we find ourselves under attack. The reason that unbelievers recoil upon the mention of the word Jesus is because it is a light that shines into the dark areas of their lives that they do not want exposed. But the light of Jesus inside of us does exactly that. Continue to stand by the One who stood by you Genaea and may He make your knees strong on the journey as you follow Him. God bless.
      Synde

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you. We agree.

      2. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Massacred? Who is being brutally massacred because of their faith?

    11. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      genaea, for me, it works like this. I understand your desire to talk about something that governs your life. That's fine. Just I don't want to hear about it because it bores me to destruction and, for me, it's rather like someone going on about the tooth fairy. Quite honestly, I don't talk about atheism either, and it would bore me just as much to talk about atheism all the time. To me, these are things that were settled a long time ago in my life, and just as I no longer talk about dolls, I've moved on.

      I think the old saying that birds of a feather flock together (like draws like) holds true.

      Best thing is just to keep your beliefs to yourself or to only talk to them in people in your own circle.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I am in my circle smile the circle was bombarded by hungry little foxes. It is expected that you all would join me. Kind of like coming to me and "my dolly's" tea party and burning your mouth with the "pretend" beverage over and over and over again. wink silly aint it???
        Do an experiment. Start a forum about the honesty of Pinocchio whom we have found, actually lives in Queens, father to all the kids of the little old lady in the shoe. See how many people argue with you even for a day.

      2. Drive By Quipper profile image59
        Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        This is your advice for someone on a religion and philosophy forum? Go figure.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          This happens all the time. One comes to a conversation about Jesus to receive. No matter what they say. wink

          1. Drive By Quipper profile image59
            Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            True that!

          2. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's coming from an ego with the inability to see the obvious.  We are not here because we have doubts about Jesus, we are here to challenge and expose your absurd beliefs, and put them in the proper place that they belong...the garbage.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              "No matter WHAT they say" smile

    12. jellygator profile image83
      jellygatorposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't read the replies to you, and I'm certainly not out to change anyone's faith. You seem to feel offended by what others are saying to you, but by your own admission you say you talk about your beliefs often. You're putting others on the spot when they don't believe as you do, but you get offended when they do the same TO you.

      As a person who is not Christian but believes that Jesus existed and that there are many truths in the Bible, I still have a problem with a few things about people who behave as you do. Here's why:

      1. Very few people read the Bible even though they identify as Christian. I have a problem with people posing as "believers" in something they've never given serious thought to. Yes, that's what I'd call ignorance, as it stems from the same place that bigotry and racism come from - making snap judgments without enough information.

      2. Those who do read the Bible often don't study or understand it. For example, many Christians condemn homosexuality based on the verses found in Leviticus that say man should not lie with another man. But they have NO idea why it was written, NO understanding that it was only meant to apply to a particular group of people. Many Christians insist that the Bible is 100% accurate and literal despite glaring contradictions that prove it isn't so. There are thousands and thousands of known errors, some of the traceable to a particular source, yet when confronted with well-researched information, these people insist on holding their position. Yes, that's an example of NOT thinking and instead, just blindly accepting whatever is convenient.

      I have no problem with Christians or people of any other faith believing anything they want to. But I have a big problem with someone who repeatedly confronts me with something that's not valid again and again. If you want to believe everyone with green eyes is named Michael, that's your business, but if you tell me that, I might ignore your error or I might explain why I disagree. If you're offended and insist on believing all green-eyed folks are named Michael because you heard that somewhere or read it in a book, then I will have no choice but to conclude that ignorance governs your way of thinking.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, it is apparent that you have not read much of this exchange.
        Here's why:
        1. Had you read the OP, you would have noticed that there was no red "must participate" warning. So, clearly speaking the name of Jesus brought you to the conversation. I did not reach out and grab you. You came to me.
        2. There are a few people participating in this conversation who do read and understand the bible, though you clearly are NOT one of them...you are here. What were you calling ignorance, again?
        3.  Homosexuality is another of those sexual sins that the Lord detests. We must worship him in spirit and TRUTH. You cannot hide your YOUness from God. He knows your very thoughts. Take your burden to the Lord; he can handle it.  He has room for you. And his mercy is everlasting. Faith in Jesus as the "cleansing agent" is what makes you acceptable to the father. Not your sexual status.
        4. You were not confronted. "Convicted" is the proper term. smile

        1. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          There you go...challenging and insulting a person anointed by God to be a minister, essentially challenging God.  Do you not understand just how serious blasphemy is?

          God made a place for those who blaspheme...a place of sulfer, burning flesh and gnashing of teeth. yikes

          I would pray for you, but you have entered the point of no forgiveness.  This is morbidly serious!

          ...Oh the humanity!!! yikes

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If you remember nothing else I say, remember this: Not all who cry Lord, Lord are his. Only he knows.
            It is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but those things that come out. From the lips, to God's ears. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

      2. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        +1

    13. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      genaea, without reading anyone else's response to you, let me answer your question. I am a skeptic, an atheist, and a humanist. I never, never, never talk about it. In fact, the only time I bring it up is when I am confronted by a Christian who wants to talk about 'their faith.'

      The only way I can explain why I don't talk about something like that is that I don't see a necessity for talking about brushing my teeth, paying my electricity bill, or putting my make up on. They are things that are just part of me, and they are so fundamentally part of me that I've long ago become accustomed to them. To me, having a belief about who one is is fundamental to everyone, and, unless someone asks, it's a bit rude to assume that they want to hear.

      Why do they assume that you are unintelligent and brainwashed?

      Well, there is more than adequate research that confirms a correlation between the highest intelligence and atheism and that the less intelligent one is, the more likely one is to believe in religion. One is that? Because analysis of the facts leads the most highly intelligent to believe that there is no god.

      So why would people say that it's brainwashing? Because human brain chemistry believes what it hears over and over again. For instance, if one is sitting in a white walled room, and the instructor tells one over and over again that the walls are black, after a while, when asked what color the walls are 95% of the students will say that the walls are black. After a while, they will be absolutely adamant that the walls are black even when provided with absolute evidence that the walls are white. This is how the human brain works. It's how advertising works. It's how propaganda works. It's how learning works. It's how indoctrination works. One learns and accepts as truth what one hears over and over again, despite evidence to the contrary.

      There is one exception to this. Throughout Mother Nature, one in twenty of the mammalian species, is born with a different brain chemistry to others. That is the brain chemistry of leaders. They do not believe things so easily and are not so easy to brainwash.

      Your last issue is why people call you stupid because of your beliefs. Well, I guess the fact that peole are highly intelligent doesn't particularly make them infinitely patient. After a while, they just have had enough of people being so rude as to talk about their personal beliefs systems to them. If someone tells you that they are an athiest, that's not a signal to try and share your 'point of view.' It's a signal to drop the topic because they don't want to talk about it. I get rude when I've clearly stated that I'm an atheist, skeptic, and humanist, and the Christian carries on talking about it instead of changing the topic. At that point, I will just say, "You're indoctrinated, stupid, and plain rude. Bye."

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Wow Sophia, thank you for your thoughts. It is obvious, however that you have not read the comments posted. Nor did you read "MUST RESPOND" in the OP smile
        Intelligent is relative. To me, I fit the description. But I have heard many atheists, yourself included, who speak without having an idea about what they are speaking of. That is not an intelligent act. The intelligent at least seek to become informed about their opinions. I know that I display intelligence, if nothing else. smile Inform yourself
        People call me stupid, yourself included, because the Lord is my shepherd. I follow where he leads. Unfortunately, people do not recognize how intelligent it makes me. 
        I do not internalize the rudeness, this is just conversation, I know who I am. And I know a bit about you too, but this is not the time to speak on YOUR shortcomings. This conversation is about Jesus.
        How rude of you to join the conversation to throw stones haphazzardly. smile but it does not bother me. smile Stay; learn something.

        1. profile image0
          riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          "People call me stupid, yourself included, because the Lord is my shepherd. I follow where he leads. "
          People call you stupid because you follow those persons who tell you they are talking for god. You do not question what is told you, but accept the authority of your parents and priest who tell you bible is the word of god, while in fact it was written by humans who has no more knowledge about god than you or me.
          Intelligence is the ability to use reason and logic to analyse information and use it.
          You simply accept the statements  of authority without questioning its rationality. Being first in school doesn't make you intelligent , but only the one with a good memory. It is the analysis and application without prejudice is that matters.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you again for your opinion. Since I know who you are, I know exactly where to place it. smile
            I follow Jesus. If nothing else, that is apparent.
            The bible was written by humans who were present when Jesus was here. I trust their judgment. I trust that the bible was written for me to be informed about the things of God that humans of many centuries have also been informed about. It keeps things on a more even keel. Since the words are written for all to see, there is much less "speculation" and more tangible EVIDENCE that the words in my heart are true. smile
            In the critical thinking course that you speak of, I was the A student, not because of my good memory (thank you for noticing) but because I listen; and I am able to use reason and logic to analyse the information that I use. Though your uninformed observation does not really show that you have the same ability. Critical thinking exams require analytical thought, not memory smile
            Analysis should be weighed against what is ALREADY known. You cannot change your mind according to the weather, and call yourself informed. smile Some things you already know. You build on that. Not new PUBLIC OPINION POLLS. Again, I follow Jesus.
            Application without prejudice??? You do that???

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              That shows a real lack of education. None of the gospels were eyewitness accounts. Luke and Mark are disciples of  Paul, who according to history and bible has never seen Jesus. John and Mathew are copies of Mark and Mathew clearly show the extent one can lie as none of the prophesies Mathew site has anything to do with Jesus.
               
              That is what we all say. You trust them without using reason and logic.


              You choose to see only that parts which are of your liking and either ignore or downplay the bad parts.


              In school, before the exam all the exercise are repeated many times that you will be  able to regurgitate what ever form the question is asked. If you use apply reason and logic, it will be seen in your arguments. Instead you compartmentalised it in your brain for examination purpose and never to be used in real world.
              Reason says a murderer hate not love, but you say a murderer love, where is the application of reason and logic?

            2. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              In school, before the exam all the exercise are repeated many times that you will be  able to regurgitate what ever form the question is asked. If you use apply reason and logic, it will be seen in your arguments. Instead you compartmentalised it in your brain for examination purpose and never to be used in real world.
              Reason says a murderer hate not love, but you say a murderer love, where is the application of reason and logic? When you say Intelligent humans are created, you either imply that the god that created humans is not intelligent  or is simply contradicting yourself. And unfortunately you seem not to understand the meaning of 'contradiction'.

              1. profile image0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I'm doing this course which starts next week. It's how to think and argue... smile

                https://www.coursera.org/course/thinkagain

                Free from Duke University.

                1. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  smile

                2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Excellent course, I found this comment to be rather humorous...


                  "What is the coolest thing I'll learn if I take this class?

                  Nasty names (equivocator!) to call people who try to fool you with bad arguments."

    14. profile image0
      kylesandersonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well damn... If you're "unintelligent" I'm a monkey who builds space rockets.

    15. Claire Evans profile image69
      Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Please, for heaven's sake, would the participants please ignore this Jessica? If you ignore her, she will go away eventually.  After all, she told you to leave her alone.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        +1

        1. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          That  was my suggestion earlier, an you have put it  very clearly, it's the right way to do; let someone else to " educate " her

    16. safiq ali patel profile image69
      safiq ali patelposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You have the right to retain your faith and to practice your faith every moment of every day. Sadly as you are becoming aware there are many Jesus phobes out there who will not tolerate any mention of the Savior. But looking at the people who are Jesus phobic they lead very empty and tedious lives. Those who live faith based lives report a deeper sense of satisfaction and fulfillment in life than those who have no faith. Keep your faith and I hope your journey becomes better and better.

      1. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        And just who gave you this information? Someone has been filling you with lies.

      2. getitrite profile image73
        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah, that's why Sweden is the happiest country in the world, and has the lowest number of believers.
        But  of course you can't see the absurdity in your ridiculous statement.

        Do some research.  Your religion causes more negativity than anything.

    17. dianetrotter profile image61
      dianetrotterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What drives me nuts is the people that go into inconsequential history from unheard of historians and expect us to change what we believe.  Can you imagine changing your beliefs every time some new person comes up with obscure history from some insignificant person?  I know Whom I believe.

      1. profile image0
        riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        So do you still believe the earth is flat?
        Inconsequential writers wrote gospels and people believed it through centuries including you, only now historians are trying to get the facts right. You know that no 'historian of consequence' was able to establish that there was a town named Nazerath at the time of Jesus, but still he is called Jesus of Nazerath.
        So whom do you believe?

        1. dianetrotter profile image61
          dianetrotterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I never thought the world was flat.  What made you think that?  Regarding Nazareth, I just did a search.  It looks like those who try to discredit Christianity all study the same talking abouts.  The tactic is to put a Christian on the defensive.

          I maintain ... you guys can believe whatever you want to believe.  That is what I do.  I am flattered that so much attention has been focused on my thoughts.

          Enjoy the pagan holiday guys!  Relax!

          1. profile image0
            riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why didn't you think the earth was flat?  Bible says so, and people believed that same till somebody found earth is spherical.
            You shouldn't have changed your belief!
            Even the church couldn't establish that there was a city of Nazerath, though they made up a 'house were Jesus lived', just like the shroud.
            Discredit? is it like changing the end of world to end of Jews, as you made out in the elaborate reply to rad man? A generation is not a generation and world is just Jerusalem!
            "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'"
            How many stars fell from sky?

            1. Jerami profile image60
              Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              The word which was translated as "Earth"  was the same word as translated when Cyrus the Great said "the Lord has given all the kingdoms of the earth ...."    Did Cyrus conquor the whole earth? No he didn't and he knew that he didn't!   SOooo  that word was NOT refering to the Planet earth.

              Q.     Discredit? is it like changing the end of world to end of Jews

              ME    ...   Again, translation discrepency.  Where does scripture say "The world will end"?   

              Q.       "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'"
              How many stars fell from sky?

              ME       In 69 AD Mt Vesuvius errupted and according to Pliney the younger,  for almost a week he could not see his own hand inches in front of your own face,  the winds were moving the ash and sulphur in a south easterly direction toward Jerusalem.
                A few years ago when the farmers in mexico were burning their fields their fires got out of controll. We in Houston couldn't see the sun because the skys were overcast from the smoke.  How much more overcast would it have been if a volcanic eruption the magnitude of the 69 eruption had been taking place?    We would not be able to see1/3 of the sun or the moon and stars.

              1. profile image0
                riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Interesting, how a jew got what is said by Cyrus. Cyrus was the king of persians. he hadn't conqered egypt(Cambysses did) or india. He did went to greece. He died fighting the Masagatai. As the emperor and an ambitious person he might have thought that the he was given the whole earth to be conquered, but that will not make earth flat. And haven't read anything else from bible? there are many other references where it is plainly stated that earth is a "circle".


                They all saw stars falling from sky? As far as I know star is larger than earth though the ancients thought it is small, and a single star why a small asteroid can destroy a large area of earth. So did god mistook asteroid for a star?
                Is it because earth is the centre of the universe that every star is gravitating towards earth?

    18. profile image0
      Lybrahposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm amazed at the all the God-haters there are up in here!  It's one thing to not believe, but some of y'all are bashing the religion.  It saddens me.

      1. JMcFarland profile image72
        JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        that's a misnomer.  You can't hate something that you don't believe exists.

      2. profile image0
        riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, we should all stand up for Thor, our god.

        1. profile image0
          jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If you shout loudly and for long enough, you will get a Thor Throat.

          1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image90
            HeadlyvonNogginposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Haha, JCL, you're so punny!

          2. A Driveby Quipper profile image60
            A Driveby Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Clever!

  2. ro-jo-yo profile image89
    ro-jo-yoposted 12 years ago

    It is known that the name Jesus is translated from the from the Greek name Iesuos which is translated from  the Hebrew name Yehowshuwa.  And as you can well see that Jesus is not at all similar to the true name Yehowshuwa. So when you start speaking about Jesus being the son of god or god himself, it shows you are only repeating what you have been taught. That you haven't searched the truth for yourself. It also states in the bible that Satan is out to deceive everyone, the very elect if it were possible. That is why we should always be searching for the truth, and to find the truth we have to seek our Father Yehowah (True Hebrew name of the Almighty) Yehowah is truth.
    So the question is do you want to accept Jesus or do you accept Yehowshuwa. Yehowshuwa came in his Father's name. Jesus is a false name.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good thoughts.  I just think that if you go to the bible to seek answers, then you believe what it says.  The bible says to seek the truth, but the truth is to be found, for sure, in the bible; for me and many others.  The bible speaks of Jesus being the son of God.  Now, if there are other names (and I do believe that there are many) then they speak of the same entity.  Jesus is the son of God, according to the bible.  So close, that the bible speaks of them being one (as the bible speaks of husband and wife being one) It is sad that people get so caught up in wording that they miss the message. 
      You quote the bible, yet, don't believe what it says??? Now that to me, is the deceit that is used to confound the messages of Christianity.  Satan deceives many this way.  Read the bible, quote what it says, now search for the "true" meanings.  It is a ghost-chase that haunts the very elect.
      The Lord cannot do much with a mind, where knowledge is, that is free-willed.  The heart is where we meet God and find his truths.  The bible leads in the right direction.

      1. ro-jo-yo profile image89
        ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes I believe the bible, but realized that it is translated from both Hebrew and Greek, so to get the true understanding you have to look at the original script they were translated from. That is where you learn that certain things are incorrectly translated. Like the name Yehowshuwa and Yehowshuwa said that the greatest commandment is:
        Mark 12 28....Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Yehowshuwa answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear , O Israel; Yehowah our God is one Yehowah: 30 And thou shalt love Yewowah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
        He quoted Deut 6:4 which has the Father's name written in the Hebrew Script. As you see we are to worship his father Yehowah with all our heart mind and soul.
        So why are people turning to Jesus, it is a false name.
        A person does not have to be a Christian to believe the bible Christ is another false title. They were waiting for a Messiah not a Christ! This is another subtle deception done through mistranslation. Therefore you cannot accept mainstream doctrine, it is under the control of Satan, the bible tells us that quite clearly.
        And the great dragon was cast out , that old serpent, called the Devil, and Rev 12:9 Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
        And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying , Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Ok, so since the texts changed the name, they are incorrect? No. We Americans say, Love "God" with all your heart...etc. Same message. Same God. Love him is the message. Some miss it because the name is different??? Also, they were looking for a messiah not a Christ??? Did you really mean to type that?
          Lastly, Jesus is followed because he was the most perfect example of God-following that we have. We know his instructions were impeccable. The Father is on the highest level. Jesus is revered for the work that he did. Correctly, the father is the only one praised and worshipped. Jesus is thanked and appreciated for his death and advocacy for us.

        2. aguasilver profile image76
          aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Can you tell me where I can get an Aramaic keyboard?

          I seem to have difficulty in typing His name...

          http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/aramaic.gif

          The fact is, we read English and the bible has been translated from Aramaic/Hebrew through Greek, into Latin and finally into English, which has produced the name Jesus for the Messiah.

          My name would by Yochanan in it's original form, yet it has come out as John

          English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ιωαννης (Ioannes), itself derived from the Hebrew name יוֹחָנָן (Yochanan) meaning "YAHWEH is gracious".

          Personally I believe that God can speak to us in any language, and is big enough to accept that we call upon Him... not His name.

          Incidentally, I went through a period when I called myself Yochanan when I was following the Hebraic Roots path, which thankfully led right back around to the Christ I know.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            In a nutshell! smile Thanks. Wording is just not that important. He knew that the languages would be difficult to translate one to another. That is exactly why he gave us different languages. Not so that we could not talk to him; but so that we could not effectively speak to eachother. He knows all languages. We get confused language to language. However, he does not. He knows when we call him; be it Yahweh, Jehovah, King, Jack or Booger smile He reads our hearts (souls) and he does not get confused. The important thing is that we call him.

            1. ro-jo-yo profile image89
              ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              First I would like to say the the names Yehowah and Yehowshuwa is the correct English transliteration of the Hebrew names. Here are some bible quotes that states the importance of the names.
              Psalm 103:1 KJV
              Bless YEHOWAH, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalm 105:1 KJV
              O give thanks unto YEHOWAH; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.
              Psalm 105:3 KJV
              Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek YEHOWAH
              Psalm 106:47 KJV
              Save us, O YEHOWAH our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise.
              Psalm 96:2 KJV
              Sing untoYEHOWAH, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.
              Psalm 92:1 KJV
              It is a good thing to give thanks unto YEHOWAH, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:
              These are some of the verses that shows the importance of the name. And when Yehowshuwa told us to pray we say: Our Father who art in heaven Hallowed be thy name

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Wow!!! So I am condemned if I don't know Hebrew languages? Not! Please don't "argue over words" can you find that scripture??? Blessed and holy are his names. Some of us just cannot pronounce his "real" name. We have an advocate with the father though. I am pretty darn smart according to my peers. I can't even get the vowels correct in my head. Will I be considered slack, or at a risadvantage? (Please say you don't understand that last word so you may see what I mean)
                If my people who are called by my name (his name aint genaea, for sure) would umble themselves and pray... Let us be fair and speak about important matters. How can we not get upset with such opposition? Let us find a common ground.

                1. ro-jo-yo profile image89
                  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I am speaking about important matters, I am talking about our very soul. But all Christians have been indoctrinated by their churches, and while they were teaching you their doctrine they also dimmed you eyes and your hearing so much that it is almost impossible for you to hear and see clearly.
                  Your answers clearly lets me see you as such a person.
                  I suggest that you read this hub
                  http://ro-jo-yo.hubpages.com/hub/Lost-Truth

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I'm really curious, did you read your post? Like several times, maybe, for clarity.

                    You do realize that you're actually demanding others to believe what you want them to believe from the position of arbiter?

                    While it may not be my place to defend Christian indoctrination, I certainly would defend a Christians right to decide not to break it, regardless of it's insidious origins, intents and effects.

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    What? Do you people wear shades while reading my comments??? smile The church is responsible for the wrong info that taught me as a kid. I didn't know any better. Christians really scared me back then. As I matured, I sought the truth on my own along with a prayer for understanding. Is that still some sort of indoctrination? I think from your last statement that your senses are dimmed and your hearing impaired but hey, just MY opine. Erbody's got one or two.

            2. jellygator profile image83
              jellygatorposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              "Wording is just not that important. He knew that the languages would be difficult to translate one to another. That is exactly why he gave us different languages. Not so that we could not talk to him; but so that we could not effectively speak to eachother. "

              If you believe this, then you must be defying God's will by even attempting what He didn't mean for you to know. What nonsense!

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You still are not reading.

          2. Drive By Quipper profile image59
            Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Tongues of angels, even.

          3. Michael-Milec profile image60
            Michael-Milecposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Exceptionally well said , John .
            It is this enormously in comprehantion gift of FAITH  getting us close to God to know him, to understand him, communicate  with  him and to work with him in supernatural

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image77
      DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Elohim was also used by the Hebrews as a name for God. And a few others as well.

  3. psycheskinner profile image66
    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    Maybe the issue us that when you are "often" talking about it, it is off topic and the person your are speaking to finds it intrussive and annoying.

    By contrast I doubt I mention my atheism (also important to me) more than once a week across all of my interactions on and offline.

    1. profile image0
      Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Im not trying to disrespect you in the least, Im just not sure I understand.
      I can see why your scientific beliefs etc would be important to you, but Atheism is a disbelief in the existence of a deity, as you know. Where as a person who has placed their faith in God has a relationship with Him, loves Him, is loved by Him, lives and dies for Him, offers their time and a portion of their finances back to God and trusts Him with every facet of their lives. It seems to me like you can't quite compare the two perspectives. It seems natural for someone of faith to talk about the being they have faith in, not that they should push God on anyone who isn't interested in hearing.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You are beautiful Beth.  smile  I would like to say though, that pushing is not my cup... I want to show people what I know. I want them to tell me what they know.  Just so happens that I am convinced about what I know.  Others... not so much.

        1. profile image0
          Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I knew I should have read the whole thread... I didn't know what anyone else had said, I was just responding to that one post.

          No, we all share our beliefs here. It's give and take, back and forth. I just meant in general, I don't see anything wrong with sharing what is most important to you if youre not pushing your faith on someone who would prefer you to keep it to yourself.

  4. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 12 years ago

    No one should refer to you as unintelligent for what you think. But, out of the utmost respect for the figure of Jesus and his teachings, I do find myself offended by many interpretations. A lot of things are attributed to belief in Jesus that have nothing to do with anything he appeared to say and I think he would be saddened by the high horse of Christianity.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      He was saddened by the high-horse of the Jews of his time. Christianity is the result. But, again, we have found many ways to ignore or discount the messages of this life. Humility is key.
      I think that we have a lot in common (Hi Emile!smile. The heart is sensitive to God, no matter who or what you believe. We make the choice to say yes or no daily (sorry James:) because each day, we are faced with options to do this or that. Right or wrong. EVERYDAY.
      Intelligence is not what the Lord requires, if it were, that would be a set-up. Not everyone has even enough of that to tie our shoes properly. Knowledge of his will is required. To each of us, he gave a measure of that. We decide what we do with it. Misinterpretation is not even counted against you if you honestly don't understand what he "actually" meant by his instruction. He corrects you eventually. Yet, it is still up to you to "stand" corrected.  Try not to be upset by misunderstanding/misinterpretation. We are all trying to "get it". Jesus advocates for those who "know not what they do" smile God understands our condition.

    2. MsJunieB profile image61
      MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Amen to Emile R. very clear understanding of Jesus.
      Things have gone off subject, genaea, but I think all of us can learn from these posts. If nothing else, it can strengthen everyone's debating skills. Most of the conversation is very polite even when people disagree. A professor told us one time that is why teenagers argue so much. They are learning how to disagree without being disagreeable.

  5. profile image0
    Sri Tposted 12 years ago

    In a public, anonymous forum there will be many opinions. It's ok to follow whatever you choose. The problem that some people have with Christians and many religions is their idea that their path is the only way to God. This is one of the causes of religious wars all over the world. The reality is, people are getting results from all kinds of religions. Even if you don't try to preach to others, the bible says spread the gospel. I see people on the street everyday trying to convert others. Nothing wrong with that. If it works for them, great. But if we are wise we must realize that many people have gotten results before and after Christianity was in effect. A public forum is opinion and entertainment.

  6. williemjons profile image60
    williemjonsposted 12 years ago

    Hou are right................................there is God

  7. psycheskinner profile image66
    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    The bottom line is that you talk a lot about God you require people with other beliefs to either ignore you or rebut you.

    If those outcomes are undesirable to you, maybe give it a rest.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well honestly, I prefer to be ignored by those who don't want to hear me. That is why I make so clear, my topic. But oh! If I say Christian or Jesus, the "little foxes" come-a-circling smile It is not REALLY surprising. It just helps me to have more faith. The bible said that this all would occur. How could they have known so long ago? smile I am just in AWE of the holy spirit. I hate that you are not. But I don't hate you. How bout those cart-wheels??? smile

      1. royalblkrose profile image61
        royalblkroseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I wholeheartedly agree with you genaea.... the foxes come out to bite, the intellectual humanists come at you, guns blazing.... The Word tells us tho' that He (Jesus) offended folk, and that if we follow Him, we will offend too. and Like you, I get tired of the offense....

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Tired, no. I think the "foxes" are searching for reasons to believe. Ha! At least id like to believe so. I just would like to see if THEY actually know why they come.

  8. psycheskinner profile image66
    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    If you think people expressing a view are attacking you this explains, perhaps, why you perceive others reacting in a hostile way to your religious talk.  Maybe they are just saying what they think, and you perceive this as an attack when it is not. Why should they have to ignore in silence, while you feel free to speak out?

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There is only one way to perceive, "unintelligent, indoctrinated, unable to think for myself". Such expressions are of a "personal" nature. Such expressions are meant to belittle and demean. I don't have to be really intelligent to know when I am being insulted, simply because I believe God. Your statement is more of the same. Piss down my neck; tell me it is raining??? smile i know when i am being insulted smile I perceive pretty well. However, I do not consider it a barrier. I know who I am. And I know WHOSE I am. Your opinions are just that.

  9. profile image0
    Justsilvieposted 12 years ago

    As I said before I have no problem with any religion. I think it the far right posing as Christians that turns people off on Christianity in America! Here are some great examples Now can you honestly say Jesus Christ would want these followers?

    http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0/bb/1/ffffff/a73c3613bb0e1fde9dec70b1b26a1312/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/CITY_GUIDE/2012/10/texaschurch.jpg

    Ann Coulter
    "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

    "Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims."

    "Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity, as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'"

    Bailey Smith
    "With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."

    Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America)
    "Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office."

    Bob Dornan (Rep. R-CA)
    "Don't use the word 'gay' unless it's an acronym for 'Got Aids Yet'"

    David Barton (Wallbuilders)
    "There should be absolutely no 'Separation of Church and State' in America."

    David Trosch
    "Sodomy is a graver sin than murder. – Unless there is life there can be no murder."

    Fob James (Governor of Alabama)
    "Behind this judicial wall of separation there is a tyranny of lies that will fall... I say to you, my friends, let it fall!"

    "A good butt-whipping and then a prayer is a wonderful remedy."

    Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)
    "If you got to castrate your miserable self with a piece of rusty barb wire, do it."

    "Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!"

    "You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!"

    "American Veterans are to blame for the fag takeover of this nation. They have the power in their political lobby to influence the zeitgeist, get the fags out of the military, and back in the closet where they belong!"

    "Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."

    Gary Bauer (American Values)
    "We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."

    Gary North (Institute for Christian Economics)
    "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."

    "This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."

    Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)

    "When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."

    George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)
    "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

    George W. Bush (President of the United States)
    "I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."*

    "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

    "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

    *Comment about Wiccans in the military

    Henry Morris (Founder, Institute for Creation Research, died 2006)
    "When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data."

    J. B. Stoner (White Supremacist) (1924 - 2005)

    "We had lost the fight for the preservation of the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created.... I praise God all the time for AIDS."

    "AIDS is a racial disease of Jews and Niggers, and fortunately it is wiping out the queers. I guess God hates queers for several reasons. There is one big reason to be against queers and that is because every time some white boy is seduced by a queer into becoming a queer, means his white bloodline has run out."

    James Dobson (Focus on the Family)
    "Those who control the access to the minds of children will set the agenda for the future of the nation and the future of the western world."

    "State Universities are breeding grounds, quite literally, for sexually transmitted diseases (including HIV), homosexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, alcoholism, and drug abuse."

    "Today's children... They're damned. They're gone."

    James Kennedy (Center for Reclaiming America)
    "The Christian community has a golden opportunity to train an army of dedicated teachers who can invade the public school classrooms and use them to influence the nation for Christ."

    James Watt (Secretary of the Interior)
    "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."*

    *Secretary of the Interior in the Reagan Admin. Responsible for National Policy regarding the Environment

    Jay Grimstead (Coalition on Revival)
    "We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."

    Jerry Falwell (1933 - 2007)
    "We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself."

    "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

    "The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."

    "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

    "If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

    Jesse Helms (Senator R-NC, 1973-2003)
    "The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian."

    "All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction."

    "Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that cannibalism, wife-swapping and murder of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior."

    "Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches."

    Jimmy Swaggart (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries)
    "The Media is ruled by Satan. But yet I wonder if many Christians fully understand that. Also, will they believe what the Media says, considering that its aim is to steal, kill, and destroy?"

    "Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest."

    "Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it...Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory."

    John Ashcroft (Attorney General)
    "Civilized people – Muslims, Christians, and Jews – all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator."

    John Whitehead (Rutherford Institute)
    "The [Supreme] Court, by seeking to equate Christianity with other religions, merely assaults the one faith. The Court in essence is assailing the true God by democratizing the Christian religion."

    Joseph McCarthy (1908 - 1957)(Senator, R-WI, 1947-1957)
    "Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity."

    Joseph Morecraft (Chalcedon Presbyterian Church)
    "Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."

    Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)
    I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."

    Kay O'Connor (Kansas Senate Republican)
    "I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote."

    Keith A. Fournier (Catholic Way)
    "We need a legal strategy which protects the rights of those of us who hold Christian convictions which will afford us the opportunity to contend once again for the mind of this culture."

    Laura Schlessinger
    "I want to coin a phrase here, and I don't mind help. What would be the communication version of "ethnic cleansing?" Because that's what in particular the homosexual activists try to do."

    Lester Roloff (1914 - 1982)(Texas Homes for Wayward Youth)
    "Better a pink bottom than a black soul."*

    *Roloff opened a chain of homes for "wayward" youth in the state of Texas; he was later jailed in 1973 and again in 1975 for child abuse due to the punitive punishment techniques used in his homes. He was then specifically given permision to re-open his homes by Governor George W Bush.

    Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin
    “George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”

    Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate)
    "Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."

    "There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The "negroes" of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."

    "Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."


    Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition)
    "The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would the people in America want to embrace the religion of slavers?"

    "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different...More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history."

    "When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals – the two things seem to go together."

    "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."

    "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."

    "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

    "[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers."

    "[Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism – everything that the Bible condemns."

    Paul Cameron
    "I think that actually AIDS is a guardian. That is I think it was sent, if you would, about forty years ago, to destroy Western civilization unless we change our sexual ways. So it's really a Godsend."

    "Homosexuality is a crime against humanity."

    "Causes of homosexuality include: 'sex with animals'"*

    "Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."


    *Paul Cameron was discharged from the American Psychological Association, the Nebraska Psychological Association, and the American Sociological Association due to his unethical practices and biased research regarding Homosexuals; however his work is still referenced by many fundamentalist organizations as credible.

    Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)
    "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

    "Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies."

    "I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like – and if you have babies, you have babies."

    "When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."

    "There is going to be war, [and Christians may be called to] take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them."

    Jerry Vines (Southern Baptist Convention)
    "They would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl."

    Rick Santorum (Senator R-PA, 1995-2006)

    "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"


    Robert Simonds (Citizens for Excellence in Education)
    "As the church watches from the sidelines, the ungodly elect atheists and homosexuals to school boards and legislatures to enact policies and laws that destroy our Christian children and discriminate against Christian families."

    "Atheistic secular humanists should be removed from office and Christians should be elected...Government and true Christianity are inseparable."

    "We'll take away their power and their money. Money comes from students. We'll break their backs by taking 24 million kids out of the public schools."

    Robert T. Lee (Society for the Practical Establishment of the Ten Commandments)

    "Raising your children under Americanism or any other principles other than true Christianity is child abuse."

    "You do not have the right to be wrong, regardless of what any man-made or demonic charter says."

    "Democracy originated in the mind of a rational being who has the deepest hatred for God."

    "Do you realize that the only thing that gives democracy existence is sin? The absence of democracy is perfect obedience to god."

    "The best way to insure the earth is never over populated is for sensible and righteous governments to clear all forms of atheism and heresy."


    Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)(President of the United States)
    "For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ."

    Roy Moore (Former Alabama Judge)
    "If they want to get the Commandments, they're going to have to get me first."*

    "Worship With Your Vote"
    Rush Limbaugh

    "Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."

    "If you commit a crime, you're guilty."

    "There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons... use them"

    Star Parker (Coalition on Urban Renewal & Education)
    "Anybody that believes in separation of church and state needs to leave right now."

    Tony Evans (Promise Keepers)
    "The demise of our community and culture is the fault of sissified men who have been overly influenced by women."

    William Rehnquist (1924 - 2005)(Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court)
    "The 'wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned."

    Michael Savage (Savage Nation)
    "Oh, you're one of the sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig. How's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better than to put me down, you piece of garbage. You have got nothing to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it."*

    I can on and on and on with the hate that is spouted in this country in the name of Christianity but I will just say "my 2nd next favorite quote "Jesus protect me from your followers"

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That list was way too long. Your passion cannot be enveloped in one sitting. After about fifty of those crazy statements, my eyes went numb. However, I get your point, and have ONLY one quote for you: "Ye have heard that it was said, thou shall love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies; bless them that curse you; do good to them that hate you; and pray for them that despitefully use and persecute you." Jesus the Christ and Messiah and king of kings made that statement to those who follow him. Now you have a CLEARER picture of what the "following" of Christ, looks like. See??? There is a difference between being "Christian" and following Christ.
      smile receive it? smile

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        But, we've moved well beyond that kind of archaic thinking because it is as meaningless as it is barbaric. We need not 'love thy neighbor or love thine enemies' as it an ideal that is based entirely on the diminishing of love to a base emotion that can be tossed around to anyone and everyone. From what property, description or characteristic of 'love' does one offer their enemies?

        Love is an emotion that is meant to be far more important, intimate and profound in relationships than just a "How-do-you-do" to ones neighbor.

        Just check out what happens when you say, "I love you" to your spouse and then watch what happens when you say it to your neighbors spouse.

        The correct word to use is respect, not love. Respect your neighbors and most likely, they'll respect you and all will be good in the neighborhood.



        And, just look at the mess Christians made of that one.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I just din't get it ATM.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I am not at all surprised.

            1. profile image52
              Zxoaicposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              We expect it from socks, anyway.

              http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7354347_f248.jpg

              1. Gitridomi profile image58
                Gitridomiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Deleted

                1. profile image52
                  Zxoaicposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Another one to show the process.

                  1. Gitridomi profile image58
                    Gitridomiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Deleted

    2. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Justsilvie, that's quite an indictment you have there.  I am quite taken aback by these people and their words!  I can not call them my brother, my sister.  There is something wrong with so-called Christians who think, and talk this way about people they find unacceptable.  Nowhere to you see the love of the God they claim to serve demonstrate.  They represent themselves.
      their own hatred and prejudices, and not God!  No wonder people hate Christians, of which I am one.   The Bible talks about people like this... Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you are like tombs that have been whitewashed, which look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        So - Christianity must be one of the smallest religions on the planet then?

        How many members do you have?

        1. 2besure profile image82
          2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I am not a Pastor, Mark. I have no church nor members.  Thank God!

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why would I embrace such superstitious nonsense?

            I see you did not answer my question, which is odd considering you just disowned most of the other people claiming to be Christian.

            How many Christians are there exactly?

            1. 2besure profile image82
              2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              The Christians I disown are God's problem.  'How many Christians are there exactly?'  I couldn't tell you Mark.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Right - so why would I embrace something that no one follows?

                1. 2besure profile image82
                  2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Because I choose to.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Not so long ago you were sacrificing animals. How is this any different?

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        lol Didn't you just claim to be an atheist at one time?

        1. 2besure profile image82
          2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Sure, in my early twenties.  Then I say my brother who was paralyzed from the waist down walk, after someone prayed for him.  We were at the hospital and a evangelist came into the room.  I was ragging on her and all the stuff, I felt was stupid in the Bible.  She stayed sweet and asked my brother, would he like prayer.  He said yes, she prayed.  Before that he had no feeling in his legs or feet, when the Dr. stuck them with a needle.  As the woman prayed, my brother's legs started to move, then he walked.  The whole room was like, this can not be happening.  I was so zooted, I asked the lady to pray for me.  I felt heat going all through my body and was overcome, I had to sit down.  Needless to say the experience opened my eyes to the possibility there was something to this God thing.  I have since had a lot of experiences like that.

          1. aguasilver profile image76
            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            +1 Great answer, and a wonderful testimony.

            1. 2besure profile image82
              2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              aguasilver, this experience was the only thing that could have gotten my attention back then.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, but any benefit your brother had in the hospital had nothing to do with prayer, and no atheist would even entertain such a ridiculous notion. Sorry, your story does not give credit where credit is due and is merely another story only believers tell. You were no atheist.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Liars For Jesus (TM)

            2. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              This is there biggest mistake. They don't thank the right people, they don't give or take credit where it's do and they don't acknowledge responsibility when they error. Thank God or blame the devil.

          3. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I've seen the same thing happen when nobody was praying. It turns out the paralysis was only temporary. I've also seen many pray with no response at all.
            If prayer worked there would be no christians in cancer wards or hospitals at all for that matter. But sadly that is not the case.

            1. 2besure profile image82
              2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              My brother's spinal cord was severed!

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Awesome - you must have a lot of medical proof you can supply then.

                Looking forward to it.... wink

              2. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It's to bad nobody prayed for Christopher Reeves?

                1. 2besure profile image82
                  2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Maybe he was like you..didn't believe.  When the doctors are ready to pull the plug on you, too bad you won't have anywhere to turn!

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    So there are no real believers in hospitals? We should have stats that say Christians stay out of hospitals and jails. Oh wait we have those stats and it looks like Christians are equally represented in hospitals and overly represented in jails. Oh well, there goes that.

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    And the true Christian shows itself.

                    Odd - you think lying about a miracle happening and then attacking anyone who won't believe you when you refuse to show the documented evidence and proof you have hidden away is going to achieve anything?

                    Other than - perhaps - allow you to understand that it is not your faith that is objectionable, but the way it makes you act? wink

                    I mean - the medical staff must have been amazed. The first documented evidence of a believer's spine repairing itself when it was irreparably damaged? Amazing stuff - at last! - proof of God's intervention after 2,000 years of nothing - and you don't show us?

                    Save me a seat by the fire. wink

                  3. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Wow! Talk about vicious. I think Satan is behind those words. Or, maybe it's God?

            2. RichusFridum profile image60
              RichusFridumposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Once again Rad Man nails it. When prayer doesnt work Christians have a million excuses, but when an agreeable occurence takes place after a prayer then its supposed to be a miracle.
              TIME AND CHANCE HAPPEN TO US ALL - Ecclesiastes

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I'm liking you. You are obviously intelligent and perceptive. I bet I got that right as well?

          4. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Tangible "proof" for those who love God. Mystery for those who will not see.

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Or a lie.

  10. 2besure profile image82
    2besureposted 12 years ago

    You wouldn't believe, if I showed you the x-rays.   That's just how it is.  My family's experience  was very powerful and can not be explained away.  It was not mass hysteria.  All I know is, when that woman prayed in the name of Jesus, my brother walked and his is walking today.   It had such a profound experience for me, even though I didn't believe in God, I went around telling everyone what happened to my brother.  I have had a lot of supernatural experiences since then, that can not be explained by science.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Of course we would. You must have evidence other than X rays. Because an X ray will not show a spinal cord.

      Unless you are lying? sad Which appears more likely unless you can provide proof.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Do the X-rays reveal God working?

      What is certainly revealing about your story is how little credit, if any, you give to the hospital and it's staff, who were the real heroes and that you give most if not all the credit to some woman praying, who could have just as easily been bowling, instead.

      It not only insults the intelligence, but every single care worker on the planet. Shameful.

      1. 2besure profile image82
        2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        We are overpowered with a mass of undigested intelligence, collected for the mast part without regard to values.  My time is too precious, I won't cast my pearls before swine. No longer following this pointless forum.     I have 4 hubs to finish today.   A Troubled Man..perfect user name...It says it all!   Where are your hubs a troubled man.  Trying to harass Christians on HubPages you life's work.  Soo sad!

        Genaea, my earnings are skyrocketing.  I just love October, November and December.  Advertisers are paying more.    I will leave you to waste your these enlightened fools!

        1. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Why do Christians become so angry...and insert such vicious name calling into what could, otherwise, be a civil discussion?  I guess it's that name of Jesus thing?  It makes Christians so ANGRY!

          ...must be very stressful trying to deal with the oppressive cognitive dissonance.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          What you probably meant by that, if I may, is that you believe intelligent has a high cost, that of values. I would agree in regards to any values that a believer might glean from their religion intelligence would certainly be high on the list of threats to the religion, especially beliefs that don't give credit where credit is due.



          We look forward to reading your hubs, perhaps a topic on how hard care workers strive to help people and get no credit for their rigor.



          Personal insults only make you look childish.



          So, now we're all fools because we don't share your beliefs that some stranger's prayer saved your brother when it was the care workers who most likely saved him.

          Did you even thank anyone at the hospital?

          1. aguasilver profile image76
            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I think you can take it as read that when  believer refers to someone as a 'fool' they are indicating the use as found in scripture:

            Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” 

            Trying to give the credit to the care workers is of course admirable, but unwarranted, as they had obviously been ineffective in curing the guy before someone prayed over him.

            Did you never think to thank God for your very life and it's blessings?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              How odd you feel the need to jump in and explain why believers think all non believers are fools.

              Really odd that you don't understand why this causes conflict.

              As for the lies about the majick healing with no evidence - probably not worth discussing.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You thought you "had her" right? wink Then some other "christian" whose faith is greater, and whose heart is FULL of the knowledge of him, with the ability to explain her frustration of being "actually taunted" by you, concerning such a sensitive subject, swoops in and provides biblical scripture to back up her exclamation??? smile boo-hoo. It will happen every time smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  What? How is asking for proof "taunting,"? lol

                  Swoops in and explains why you think we are fools and hides behind scripture? This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.  sad

                  Liars For Jesus (TM)

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Cool if you would have stopped at asking for proof. You pulled out your horns and tail on that one.

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Explains that the bible itself calls you fools.

            2. getitrite profile image73
              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
                ~~Thomas Jefferson

              I guess the most intelligent of the founding fathers of USA was nothing more than a mere FOOL!



              Just because the care workers were ineffective, does not automatically default to Goddunit.  COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL...and foolish.  Of course people suffering with delusional, absurd beliefs can't handle the truth.



              Will it be ok with you if I thanked the Ju-Ju- of the Sea, because to some people, in Africa, that is god.

              1. aguasilver profile image76
                aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Actually the higher ones intelligence, the more prone to foolish thinking about God one is susceptible to, and the easier it is for the enemy to sidetrack the intelligent persons thinking.

                The enemies aim is always to get those who have the most intelligence to recognise their own self esteem, pride is a key weapon in the enemies armoury, which is why God forewarned us:

                1 Corinthians 2:14
                The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.



                No, of course not, the guy lies there unable to move, the doctors say he will not walk again, someone prays over him, and he walks... obviously no connection whatsoever!

                You are of course entitled to your personal opinion, and can pray to whatever god you feel suits your faith, and if that is the Ju-Ju- of the Sea, so be it.

                Just be sure, that's all I can say, just be sure you are right.

                1. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  A god who is anti-intelligence is a despot...plain and simply, you have been DUPED.



                  Do you realize that you are promoting despotism?



                  To say that there is a connection is just plain foolish...and totally mindless of all the other possibilities.



                  "Sure" or delusional.  It appears they one and the same to you.

                  1. aguasilver profile image76
                    aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    God is all for intelligence, He simply recognises that fools mistake intelligence for wisdom, and more particularly their own intelligence and wisdom.

                    When in truth all wisdom and intelligence is a gift from God.

                    The enemy does dupe folk, he dupes them into believing that they are their own gods, that they hold authority over their own lives and that no man, or god has authority over them.

                    Yet every day we submit ourselves to some authority, we make the decision to obey someone other than ourselves.

                    Now who is deluded?

                    The enemy is a despot, and one that does wield power oppressively, if you don't believe me, try to escape his clutches, and see what he does to you.

                    I did that, I defected from the enemies camp to Christ, I can tell you that when you awaken to who your real master is, and if you attempt to escape, you will see some strange and on occasion frightening things take place in your life and he sets his minion upon you to attempt to stop your defection.

                    Do you realize that actually it's you who are promoting despotism..... and you are completely unaware of it as you are duped into believing that our enemy does not exist?

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Want some "ju-ju" beans instead??? smile

            3. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              You're gonna just take her word for it. No need to see evidence? No need to look at her character. If she says a prayer instantly heals a severed spine then that's what he prayer did. I'm seeing a pattern amongst believers here, and I may have to start using this group to market goods to. Perhaps I'll use ebay to sell photoshoped miracle pictures of Jesus appearing in a cloud. I just say he appeared after I prayed and I'll make a killing because nobody will question the validity of the photo.

              And you call non-believers fools.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                The spirit gives us the ability to discern deceit.
                A severed spine is not too hard for God smile His followers know. The spirit of her testimony was powerful. Now, I probably would not believe YOU if you exclaimed that the doctors at the hospital knit your brother's spine to provide the ability for him to walk. Now that is usually impossible! Science don't know nut'n bout that wink God knows EVERYTHING about it! It is not so hard to believe that God did it. Faith is key.

                1. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this



                  Trying to convince others that you have special powers, suggests a serious psychological disorder.

                  This has nothing to do with god, but all to do with a serious, and whimsical, disconnect from reality. 

                  Please look for REAL answers, and stop this nonsense.

                2. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You're right. I've changed and see the light. I believe as you believe and see as you do. I've had this picture kicking around from my flight on the way home from Florida last January of a cloud with the face of Jesus clearly imprinted. I knew it was there for a reason and now I know why. I'll send any believers a print for $49.99.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    smile

            4. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Since there is no indication of that in her response, I can only assume this is your own claim based on your interpretation? And, it would appear your presence here responding to her post is an attempt to justify her name calling?



              Ouch! Although I don't speak for any care giver on the planet, I can only call upon the mighty FSM to touch them all with his noodley appendage so they may see this thread and respond accordingly.



              I would, if He actually showed himself and asked me that question Himself?

              Then, I would begin asking Him several thousand questions, some of which would include His great penchant for teaching His followers not to think, why He continues to use the failed system of reward/punishment for conducting his followers behavior rather then teaching them how to reason morals and ethics using the brains He gave them and most importantly, why He must demand all the credit.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It won't be long.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  What won't be long? Sorry, I can't read your mind.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Oh now you are at the disadvantage of not being able to read minds? You have a lot of unanswered questions that you would like to ask but you don't know when "he" will show himself to you. Keep up!!! smile

  11. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Radman, sorry for the mix-up. Oooo chile was not oooo chill.

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      My mistake, you called me a child instead of telling me to calm down. I feel much better now. Sorry.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Get outta here!!! smile child aint offensive. It's kinda like love. smile

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I know, just messing with you.

  12. aguasilver profile image76
    aguasilverposted 12 years ago

    Actually it's scripture that calls non believers fools, I think that anybody who discounts God is foolish, but then again, it's a personal choice, to not believe, just not one I would think any wise person would make.

    As for accepting her claim, why should I have reason to doubt it?

    I have personally seen a miracle that God has allowed, so that's a fact I can accept, miracles happen.

    The secular world must ALWAYS decry them, for the obvious reason that to accept Gods miracles would require demolishing their secularism and ceasing the rebellion.

    Which of course is why they never see them themselves.

    1. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Let me get this straight...in order for you to see a person as "wise" he must remain a silly child for the remainder of his life...fearful of reality, and evoking magic as the cause of things which he does not understand.  OK.  Makes perfect sense.



      Yep.  Using ones own common sense is such a rebellion.  So you should stop your rebellion against Allah, shouldn't you?

      1. aguasilver profile image76
        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I think you are ALMOST understanding.... smile

        Matthew 18:2-4
        Amplified Bible (AMP)
        And He called a little child to Himself and put him in the midst of them,
        And said, Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all].
        Whoever will humble himself therefore and become like this little child [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving] is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.



        It was not my common sense that allowed me to dismiss 'Allah' as God, it was my knowledge of the scriptures in both old and new covenants, compared against the Q'ran that allowed me to see the errors of the Islamic book.

        1 Samuel 15:24
        Amplified Bible (AMP)
        For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry....

        You may never fully understand the consequences of your rebellion against God, until you meet with Him.

        My prayer for you would be that you do one day recognise what you are doing, and come to repentance.

    2. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Aha!!! In a nutshell.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And, regardless of the fact we've seen that quote a million times before, you felt compelled to make it a million and one times.



      I would think that a wise person would never choose one invisible super being over another, especially without evidence to support any of them.



      You don't have reason, your religion has taught you that we are all fools for not accepting it and you have made it your personal choice, as you say, to make sure we hear that time and time again.



      Yes, I'm sure you've made a personal choice to believe that. Good for you.



      Actually, by accepting that miracles occur because no apparent terrestrial explanation was readily available, or if the claimant of the miracle was delusional or mentally disturbed, or they were simply lying, or they were... wait a minute, there are far too many reasons to list here to not accept miracles and your reason that it "would require demolishing secularism and ceasing the rebellion" is just one of them. smile

      1. aguasilver profile image76
        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You have a small grasp of the situation, you see Gods word is the same today as it will be for ever, and it truly does not matter if you have seen that quote a million times before, you will always refuse to understand it until, and unless you finally stop your rebellion and turn to God, or meet with Him in an eternal interview.

        And I assure you that for as long as there are believers on this forum, you will continue to see Gods word preached and demonstrated to you.

        Maybe that's why you are troubled?

        NB: Incidentally, I somehow think that when you do meet with God, your irreverent and foolish questions will fade from your lips, and you will finally understand your offence.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Odd you don't seem to understand why threats like this are what causes all the conflicts. Offence? lol lol Funniest threat by a person with no authority today. How brave you are. I am impressed. You remind me why I dispensed with this religion in the first place - Daddy.

          Save me a seat by the fire. wink

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Oh, but I do understand that quote, better than you believe in it.

          And, while we're discussing it, let's make sure it's complete...

          Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

          You see, since we have seen this quote so many times repeated by folks here, it has become a focal point that undermines most if not all of the discussions regarding that faith, a bias entrenched in all those who aren't of that faith.

          What's funny about it is that no matter how many times it's refuted by the simple fact that many great people who have accomplished great feats didn't believe in your god, yet the quote continually makes its way back into the forums. Hilarious.



          Yes, yes it is, almost as difficult to fathom as to which is more troubling, the preaching or the demonstrations.



          Was that preaching or was that a demonstration?

  13. pinklipstick profile image60
    pinklipstickposted 12 years ago

    Man falls short from God's glory when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit...by their own free will, they ate the forbidden fruit and unleashed evil, pain, death, agony, and whatnot.  Our finite mind cannot understand why He allowed such things to happen but these things, even man's unbelief that He exist, will never change the fact that He is a loving, merciful, powerful, and living God with righteous judgments.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      lol Fairy tales don't explain reality.

      1. pinklipstick profile image60
        pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        That's the beauty of freewill: you can choose what you want to believe and embrace it. No one can force us to believe God, the Bible, and miracles. Believing these requires faith...and without faith, it would be impossible to believe spiritual things. Again, finite mind cannot understand an Infinite God.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Our minds understand your irrational belief in fairy tales quite easily.

          Of course it take faith to believe in those fairy tales, it takes intelligence to understand what they are.

          1. pinklipstick profile image60
            pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Man's intelligence has its own limitation, that's from the beginning of time, he cannot fully answer life's basic questions...if you consider biblical truths as fairy tales, I have no problem with that as I cannot force people to believe what they don't want to believe...of course, you have your own beliefs that you're holding dearly that's why you say its fairy tales. Thousands of people, both with proven historical accounts proved the the Bible's content to be valid and it is as it is. Science cannot explain all things and its still researching so many things to unlock secrets of this and that.  I appreciate science science it has a significant part of human's life but using it to prove spiritual things is a big disconnect.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              That has absolutely nothing to do with your irrational beliefs in fairy tales. It's just a detraction. Try to be honest.



              Sorry, but I don't hold beliefs, but I do understand that the religiously indoctrinated base everything on beliefs, a result of being indoctrinated.



              We already understand that is entirely false. Try to be honest.



              Of course, that's because "spiritual things" are just fairy tales.

              1. pinklipstick profile image60
                pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                If that's false, then you have the burden to prove it to be false...

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You were the one making the claims without any proof, so the burden is on YOU to show us your claims are valid.

                  1. pinklipstick profile image60
                    pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You won't believe either even though so many people have presented evidences in this post. Now, the burden is for you to make me believe that this is false.

                2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow - did you get your other personas banned already?

                  Guess bearing false witness i no longer a sin huh? lol

                  1. pinklipstick profile image60
                    pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    It's never been proved that the Bible is false or that God doesn't exist, or miracles don't happen either. NEVER BEEN PROVED at all.

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Isn't it funny how we are repeating the same phrases. I am still here Mark.
                    I don't think I will be subject to playing the new persona game.  You will always be able to address me as me smile

    2. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I prefer Harry Potter.  The plot is more interesting and more believable.  Of course, being an adult, you do know that this is all make believe...right...?

      1. pinklipstick profile image60
        pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        smile Sorry, in my case,it's not. This "fairy tale" turned my life upside down in a better way; Harry Potter did not. ;P

        1. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Only because of a serious disconnect from reality.



          Do you realize that you cannot actually life "inside" the fairy tale?  Once you finish reading the book, you continue living in the REAL world.  The fairy tale doesn't translate to your real life.  There are specialists for people who don't understand that.

          1. pinklipstick profile image60
            pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Choose what you want to be believe...and I'll choose mine. It's just how simple it is. WE are all entitled to choose.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, just as we are entitled to show you how ridiculous your beliefs are, especially when compared to reality, they are but fairy tales.

              Glad you have no problem with that.

              1. pinklipstick profile image60
                pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                ;P Again, I take that you are a troubled man.

              2. pinklipstick profile image60
                pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                And I even find your beliefs more ridiculous knowing that everything around you, even you, simply speaks that HE exist and yet  you as an intelligent being cannot comprehend it.  It's ridiculous to see even people who claim themselves to be "intelligent" cannot understand SIMPLE truths.

                1. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Since when is ancient fairy tales from Bronze Age goat herders TRUTHS?  You still refuse to stop living your life deep from within the pages of an ancient fairy tale.  From a psychological point of view, this is frightening!

                  1. pinklipstick profile image60
                    pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I often wondered why people like you who claimed that the Bible is not true still adhere to the universal laws such as "Thou Shalt Not Kill", "Thou Shalt Not Steal", "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Wife", et cetera. Universal laws are based on the Bible and there's no need to debate it or prove it because it's been proven and accepted as the absolute truth. No matter what you people say, again, it won't prove that our belief is not true. Honestly, I find this pointless, but I enjoyed having you here. ;P

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Frightening??? Look again.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No, you and I or anything else are not indications of Gods existence. In fact, when we look at all living things, we observe they came about through evolution, not a magical sky fairy.

                  Will you now be telling me evolution is an evil fairy tale?

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Lol!!! You prefer evolving from "nothing"? I am not totally schooled on evolution. Apes??? How'd they get here? The "smart" single cell??? Hmmm. Maybe God is a single celled organism smile He is ABSOLUTELY marvelous and kind and walks me through life. I am grateful. I must tell you smile Say what you may... It aint my fault you can't hear me. I'm talking. smile
                    Wanna hear some more???

            2. getitrite profile image73
              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              OK:

              Believer assert nonsensical premise.
              Believer's assertion is challenged by logical opposition.
              Believer experiences cognitive dissonance.
              Believer assuages cognitive dissonance by making irrelevant evasive comment.

              Religion is a horrible mind destroying concept.

              1. pinklipstick profile image60
                pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I am a Christian and Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with God. Yes, religion is very confusing so I am not holding to any religion but I'm embracing Christianity, a relationship with my Maker.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  lol Sorry, but Christianity IS a religion, by definition.

                  1. pinklipstick profile image60
                    pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    And sorry, Christianity, is not a religion...please research the origin of the word "Christian" and "Christianity" rather than merely defining it. That's what intelligent people do.

                2. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure, and a BMW is not a car; it's the ultimate driving machine.  Using trickery has always aided those who lack integrity.



                  lol lol  You expect me to believe that you are FRIENDS WITH, and personally KNOW the creator of the universe?  lol lol  HOW SPECIAL!  That's completely disturbing, and extremely comical.



                  lol  lol  A mere carbon based life form, with no real significance whatsoever can have a relationship with an omniscient, omnipotent creator.  Wow!  Let's see your peer reviewed proof.

                  1. pinklipstick profile image60
                    pinklipstickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    smile Indeed, how special I am! I don't deny that...Oh no, I'm not just a person who evolved from a single celled protozoa  who came from nothing and then that nothing became a being...That explanation is what I find ridiculous.

  14. Jerami profile image60
    Jeramiposted 12 years ago

    I know this is untimely but what the HA.
    Aqua wrote …  Jeremiah tells us that BEFORE we were born God KNEW us, and Psalm 139 tells us that He knew the number of our days before we were born as well.

    So the start point, when we were injected into this physical body, and the end point, when we leave it, are already established.
    = \ =
    ME   … “injected into this physical body” ,,,,,   I like that!  … If we have any form of free will while we are in these physical bodies, I would think that we HAD free will in choosing these bodies and the life experiences which we are having and will have.    ( many subjects come to mind). 
    In comparison to how long God has known us, the length of time that we are in these bodies is nothing.  I can not understand or agree with the concept that the choices we make while in this short life can out weigh everything else that God has known about us for eternity, that we burn in hell for the rest of eternity for a few bad choices ???
    Compared to eternity, our lives here on earth seems kinda like a weekend at Disney Land.   We do have the capabilities to make life here on earth Heaven or hell.   If I decide to jump off a building at Disneyland, is that Walt’s fault?

  15. PaulGoodman67 profile image68
    PaulGoodman67posted 12 years ago

    I think sinking into religion can be like drugs and alcohol for some people, they get so lost in the experience, they can't be pulled out again.  wink

  16. MsJunieB profile image61
    MsJunieBposted 12 years ago

    I too am a Christian and a preacher's daughter as well. Things have not changed much over the years for me. If I admit I am a PK, people always want to express their opinion. They just always seem to forget that I am polite and ask questions without putting down their opinions so they should return the respect. If we would remember the rule the USA used to endorse, treat people the way you want to be treated, there would be a more peaceful world.

    1. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm a preacher's kid too.  Most of the time that's a great motivation for becoming an atheist.
      Did you really just not pay attention, and decipher all the BS lies that the prior generations force fed us?

      1. MsJunieB profile image61
        MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I like a lot of others read Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code. I, then, went to my dad and started to ask questions. He said yes a group got together and picked the book to include in the Bible. They left out repetitive books,etc. I questioned their right to tell us what we can and can't read, but realized it is all still there for us to look at if we want. My parents studied under the same denomination, but still interpreted several things differently. It made me more tolerant not less.

    2. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, the U. S. endorsed quite a bit of scripture way back when...
      Hi PK smile yes, I have heard about you guys wink  Years ago, the church was my second home and I am sure I spent half my life in a pew. Life with God is wonderful though my church days are behind me. Thanks for joining the conversation. Yes, they are vicious! But God is vicious-er!!! wink  Happy hubbing.

  17. Disappearinghead profile image59
    Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

    I think you just need to get used to the fact that not everyone agrees with you and they are free to tell you that.

    I identify myself as one who believes in universal salvation and I speak of it.... occasionally. I have found myself bombarded by 'well meaning Christians' who think I'm deceived by Satan. I just groan within because these people choose not to question what they have been taught. I am convinced of my position by objective study of the bible and history, rather than warm fuzzy feelings inside and an irrational fear of that which does not exist.

    So whilst you object to those that laugh at your faith, consider whether or not you look upon me with great sadness that Satan has deceived me and I'm going to hell.

  18. dearljackson profile image61
    dearljacksonposted 12 years ago

    It is written, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him; not can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1Corinthians 2:14
    If one does not embody the Spirit of God, they are unable to understand those things that only God can reveal. Our God is a God of revelation.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Notice that there is no explanation as to why the natural man considers things of the Spirit of God, foolishness?

      It is one of the problems of religions, scriptural verses that make no sense because they are without explanation.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        That information, you don't need. You come up with your own reasons.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly, which is why believers can fabricate any nonsense they want and wind up believing it, justified by their rejection of any information. Imagination rules the worldview.

    2. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Words for fearful blind followers to embrace.  Yes!



      You mean unless one becomes psychotic.  Your God reveals nothing.  Psychosis is real.

    3. Disappearinghead profile image59
      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's an easy thing to say when someone disagrees with what you have to say. It states that you do not have to provide evidence for your beliefs. I wasn't aware that our creator expects us to commit intellectual suicide. Makes you wonder why he gave us a brain and a thirst for learning at all.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        He gave your heart (soul) a longing for him. See? You cannot get enough of wrestling with it.
        He gave you a mind because he has one. You are made in his image. Self, when adored, adds a level of strife with God. You begin to think you are "self-sufficient", forgetting that you know nothing. You must channel your thoughts and MAKE them to "behave" along certain lines. If you let go of Him, he No longer has power over your life. He allowed you to choose.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image59
          Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I think we're back to the old argument aren't we Genaea; 'I'm right because I know in my heart that Jesus told me'. Not forgetting 'if you don't agree with me then you are resisting Jesus'.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Listen, it seems as though we have run this conversation full-course. We conclude with, you don't love Jesus, and I do. Safe to say?

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              No genaea, I don't think you love Jesus. What you are doing, is to satisfy your ego. In fact, I have a suspicion that you work for the 'adversary'.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Wow! Such a declaration from one who wears the "mark". smile Thank You for stopping by wink

                1. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  666 is a riddle, revealed only to the faithful genaea.
                  As you answer from the perspective of an ignorant one regarding 666, I presume you are not enlightened, and is the reason why you talk as if God approves slavery. DO NOT SLANDER GOD, for he is your lord.

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    The God of the bible condones slavery.

                    Commandment #10. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

                    Ephesians 6:5 (NLT)
                    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

                    Colossians 3:22 (NLT)
                    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.

                    You will notice nowhere in the bible or the 10 commandments does it say do not keep slaves. It's certainly not one of the 10 commandments.

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You must refrain. I am in slander of nothing. Have you not been reading? Your riddle has been solved, by Jesus long ago. To be fooled seems to be a relative phenomenon. To me, you are fooled; but I cannot convince you of that. You get the tattoo too???
                    Have your way for your life. I want the way of God.

            2. Disappearinghead profile image59
              Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Your conclusion is in error and groundless.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Please, elaborate.

  19. dearljackson profile image61
    dearljacksonposted 12 years ago

    Intellectual abilities have no power to reveal the mind of Almighty God. You need a spiritual connection through the Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, no one can know God unless He reveals Himself.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And he reveals himself to the willing.

      1. getitrite profile image73
        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yep. Those who are too weak and fearful to lead their own lives, and willing to embrace slavery.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Strut yo stuff. smile the world is waiting for your contribution. I will be right here, when you're done. Good luck!!!

          1. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            My friend Sara makes about as much sense as your comment, and she has been diagnosed with a serious mental illness.  Are you ok?

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              We shall see smile

  20. getitrite profile image73
    getitriteposted 12 years ago

    I have to go now...will resume later....

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Take your time.

      1. getitrite profile image73
        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        So which sock puppet are you genaea?  Don't you think this dishonesty has gone on long enough?   Since you serve such a "truthful" god, why don't you reveal who you really are?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          My name is Genaea Carson smile Um... getitrite??? Your "name" is quite revealing of your character/ego. Would you like to reveal who YOU really are??? wink I will understand if you wish to remain nameless. Accuser. I think that fits smile though you look kinda like Einstein. Any relation???

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You are who you say you are. I looked you up on Facebook and linkedin and every picture reveals your great smile (your words). You may however be a little deceptive in terms of what you convey about yourself here on hubpages. Beautiful children and dogs. Please never leave those dogs (or any dogs) alone with those adorable children.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Thanks smile but deceptive???
              Also, Gia, my daughter, loves "her doggy" smile she poses him for pics often. One has to take them. She's never alone.

  21. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Strangely though, you know who I am. Who are any of you??? I am speaking to a room-full of avatars!!! smile I have no fears of being "discovered".

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I personally have been threatened with bodily harm a few times so I like to make it difficult to contact me. Perhaps someday I'll friend you on Facebook if that's okay.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Sure, what is your facebook persona?
        Threats...??? Hmmm. Sad, but some do go that far. I will have a smooth attitude about it. My God is my protector. When it is "time" I will be ready. I have found it difficult, throughout my life, to closet my skeletons. I quit trying smile Also, I have been wrongfully accused on quite a few occasions. People do and say what they want. I find it funny. It actually makes me laugh. My smile is genuine, though I "hurt" often. It is God on the inside that allows me to actually realize that nothing is worth draining my joy. I make the choice to see him in every situation. He makes it ok everytime. Finding me is gonna get easier smile

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I have no doubt you are a great person. Your smile, your kid(s), your dog, your fiance all look great. This is me protecting me. Atheists never threaten harm, but some muslims and christians do.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Atheists don't threaten harm??? I am almost flabbergasted smile but I know better. Thank you again, your compliments are kind. And I appreciate the lack of threat to my life smile

  22. johnnyco12 profile image60
    johnnyco12posted 12 years ago

    I know exactly how you feel as a Christian and a minister I often find those who want to contest my faith or "Make me prove it," I do not debate God, his existence, nor his word. If you disagree with me and how I believe, we will agree to disagree, agreeably. If they can't do that, then they are representatives of the enemy who are out to stir strife and confusion.  I have no time for those folks and I refuse to acknowledge them. Lastly I do not apologize for the word of God, I believe it to be as it has been proven by history through the years to be the absolute, irrefutable, undeniable truth. God said It believe and that settles it . Before anyone writes or comments on my writings you need to know that just because you don't believe it doesn't make it any less true, your disagreeing with or not liking the post will not make me change it. Because you feel that I am wrong doesn't mean that  I am ( wrong, right , or indifferent is not for you to decide in my life.) No matter how much you want to argue and debate it , will not change my mind on the subject. I refuse to publish any mean, derogatory, defamation, comments, they will be deleted and repeated submits of such will be reported to the HP officials.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      smile and some of us handle it that way. Perfectly acceptable/ understandable. smile

  23. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    None of you ever answers that question. smile 
    No God? No biblical instruction? Then what??? Please lend me your ears!!! What then??? Let me explain to you how "nonsensical" your newly found beliefs are to me. Pleeeease! smile 
    Whenever you are ready.
    See, you don't realize that not believing this message forces you into another box. Unless you choose to believe in "nothing". And I don't have to tell you how ridiculous that is smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What was the question again?

      1. recommend1 profile image59
        recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        The question was - does reducing medication make you rave like a loony on speed ?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Now 2.
          Anyone else??? smile

      2. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Ok, you are, by far, the most intelligent on the forums. You responded what was the question, to THREE questions. So we have yet another "tongue stealing cat" victim smile
        Anyone else???

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You said. "Nobody ever answers that question." (and then proceeded to ask 3 more). No God? Is not really a question. No biblical instruction? OK - we do away with slavery and stoning adulteresses. Then what? We have what we have without god thanks.

          So - what was the question again?

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You "throw the baby out with the bath water"?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry - I don't understand.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You dismiss Jesus because a few pages before him they were acting a fool. Jesus is the encspsulation of all the truth combined. Find out what he said. Find out why he said it.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No - I dismiss Jesus because the entire thing makes no sense at all. Plus I Know where the myth was taken from. I also know what he was supposed to have said.

                  What did he say about slavery again? wink

                  1. getitrite profile image73
                    getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

                    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.   (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Obey those who have rule over you; I think.

      3. JMcFarland profile image72
        JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Okay, in answer to your question, I do not believe in any god that I've ever heard of, and there is no sufficient evidence to prove or support the belief that a god exists.  I'm a humanist, so I believe in humanity.  I believe in our ability to do good without a religion telling us we should.  I don't believe in heaven, hell or an afterlife.  So what?

        I used to believe in god, until I stated using my brain to actually study it.  Then I simply could not believe it anymore, so no, this is not how its always been.  If you believe slavery is immoral, but youbelieve that a god who endorses and allows it is moral, its a contradiction and you are choosing to ignore it and exhibit willful ignorance.  You simply don't care if your beliefs are true, or if they are moral.  You just want to.  You have the right to your own beliefs.

        What brought me here?  I'm pretty sure its an open forum and anyone is welcome to comment.  Otherwise why post?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Humanity is your guide? Wow! Good thing you were not "indoctrinated" by Hitler. The world is crooked. People are crooked. You give up on the truth because you saw a few pages about slavery? Yet humanity has proven "everyday in the news" that slavery is "where it's at" and war is accepted wholeheartedly.
          I used to believe in God. Until I decided to study it for myself. I found that it checks every box in strength and righteousness for humanity and Jesus finishes the "cake" perfectly. When I studied, I was not looking to find something wrong. I asked the Lord to allow me to see "it" clearly.  And I did. I asked questions, I received answers. I read the full chapter in some cases to find the context in which the words were spoken. To me, slavery was a big part of life back then. I think God allowed them to do it because they have free reign over their actions.  He allowed the rules to be set. I guess I will take a look at the passages again. Though we are far past the days of slavery, it still exists.
          The bible was written for those who have said yes to God already. The rules are for them. Only they can understand them fully. Jesus pointed the way. All the other stuff happened as a result of people being people.  Jesus is our guide. We try to take in his character by agreeing with it. We listen to HIS words. They are the only unfalible reflection of God. Now THAT is most important.
          It is not REQUIRED that you believe. It is not REQUIRED that you obey. What's your beef???

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Notice that the believer is unable to observe the world without biblical indoctrination.



            Biblical indoctrination causes them to believe they are special amongst everyone else, and only they can understand words written in a book.

            Yet, place any other book in front of them and all understanding ceases to exist.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Your test???

          2. JMcFarland profile image72
            JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            First of all, I don't understand a lot of your sentences.  What's your native language?

            Humanity is nor my guide, per se.   Why do you think I need a guide?

            Again you're assuming things with no justification.  Its childish.  Don't assume things about a person you know nothing about, its rude.  I did not stop believing in god because the Bible discusses slavery.  I stopped believing in god because the Bible is immoral, and any god that would command those things is a bloodthirsty tyrant who is not worthy of  worship, praise or attention.  It contradicts itself, sgo it could not possibly be the word of a perfect being that claims to know everything. 

            The Bible is not for people that already believe.  That's ridiculous.  The Bible itself says that its a guide to show petite the truth.  You certainly don't seem to know much about it.  You get that Hitler was a serif-proclaimed catholic, right?  And that the majority of the German people followed him.  Not dissenting is just the same as giving consent. 

            Its your religion that teaches that human beings are depraved, pathetic should incapable of knowing how to do good without the presence of god.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              It is a guide to show petite the truth??? What's YOUR native language? smile
              God COMMANDED slavery??? He is immoral??? Then how could he produce someone like Jesus. And make him the head? Are you thinking with your heart? The mind rejects God because it does not make logical sense. But how can it? We were not there? We don't know.

              1. JMcFarland profile image72
                JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                People, not petite.  It has nothing to do with language, its autocorrect on my phone.
                God did dictate slavery, and supported it.  You agree that slavery is immoral, yet god endorses it.  You don't recognize that it makes your god immoral.  Think about it a different way.  If you take the ten commandments (which btw existed prior to the Jews and no divine guide was necessary), it says "thou shalt not kill"  yet god commands people to kill - repeatedly.  That's immoral.  God had no problem with saying"don't kill people"  so he has no problem dictating laws.  Why didn't he say "don't own another human being?

                My last paragraph is pretty clear.  I said I Am a humanist, and you said people were messed up and bad - your religion teaches you that original sin is what makes people bad.  That doesn't make it true, just because you don't believe it.

                god came to earth as Jesus in order to sacrifice himself to himself in order to allow himself the ability to forgive his creation.  That's immoral, and ridiculous.

                Incidentally, Jesus said not to plan or save for the future, so if you have a bank account, you're not following Jesus.  If you own anything, you are not following Jesus.  It may not be immoral, per se, but it its bad advice.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You have made up your mind. And I respect that smile Do you now want me to relent? I relent. But I still believe God. You believe... Uhhh... You??? Ok. I am fine with that. Why we still talking??? Respectfully smile

            2. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Hey J! Check your last paragraph as well. I just did not get it either.

    2. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Morality doesn't need to be taught to most. You see it in children a 6 months old. What makes humans successful is our ability to share information and inventions not in ability to be creative. It only took a few people to invent the plane and the rest of the world benefits from the invention because of our ability to share.

      No biblical instruction, no islamic instruction. = no wars and peace on earth, John Lennon wrote a song about it.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Kinda cheating... Don'tcha think???
        So, John Lennon is the one you follow??? 
        You follow the lead of "fellows"???
        You come up with the rules yourself??? You read it in ANOTHER book???

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The constitution of my country and my own sense of morality is all I need. I don't need the bible to tell me how to deal with slaves or what to do with people captured during war. I personally have a stronger sense of morality than that and I trust you do as well. I don't believe in God and yet have never killed or purposely wounded another. I don't take advantage of the elderly or week minded for money as some televangelists do.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I am following the lead of Jesus. Not Creflo. I have made up in my own mind that God is all I need. My country has turned against me.
            Personally, Genaea would "cuss" you all the f*ck out and tell you to kiss my $. But, I know that my God would not be pleased smile Jesus did not behave that way. Now, I cannot tell you that I am always this "Godly", but this is my strong area smile I can talk to you til my words are heard in your sleep. And not be phased.
            God, I agree with. Einstein is questionable.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this


              big_smile

              http://thaumaturgical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/maat.gif

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Sounds like THEY were listening to Jesus. smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  2,000 years before Jesus actually. wink

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Then they agreed with God.

                2. A Troubled Troll profile image61
                  A Troubled Trollposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Imhotep,
                  Jeshotep,
                  Jesus,
                  A Troubled Troll.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Now you smile does it never end people??? Yall is funny. Troubled Troll is trying to say something. Follow it over to its forum. You guys can talk all about how silly I sound over there. OP has many answers. Thanks!!!

            2. JMcFarland profile image72
              JMcFarlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              This is NOT your strong area.  You make sense to yourself, but not anyone else.  You seem incapable of answering even the most simple questions.  You claim persecution when people disagree with you, and you believe you're under attack, but conversely you have NO problem insulting anyone else, saying that they're bitter, mocking them, using sarcasm, etc.  you cannot stick to a subtext, you resort to fallacy after fallacy, setting up one straw man after another, mocking People's beluga and refusing to understand that people don't need god to be good. 

              You don't know even the basics of the Bible, you don't know history and you lack even the most basic concept of debate.  You're proven over and over again that you're closed minded and that you choose to be ignorant.  This discussion is simply not worth my (or anyone else's time.)  You're just another troll looking for a reaction, knowing that you don't have a foundation to stand on.  I'd rather discuses anything with someone who actually knows what they're talking about and not just repeat ridiculous dogma, insults, mocking and nonsense.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Hi! smile All of your questions have been answered. smile maybe not according to YOUR closed-heartedness; but answered.
                I am not insulted by your "rant" I expected it from the beginning smile did you read the OP?
                Troll??? What is a troll in your opinion? I've been called worse. I'm sure.
                You have proven, more than others, that I am in the right spot. You have just came on the scene; already, you have formed an opinion ABOUT ME based from the fact that God is my father and I believe the words of Jesus, without question. smile I can handle that.

        2. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Exodus 21:20-21 NLT
          If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

          Colossians 3:22 (NLT)
          Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.

          Commandment #10. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

          Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NLT
          But suppose the man’s accusations are true, and he can show that she was not a virgin.The woman must be taken to the door of her father’s home, and there the men of the town must stone her to death, for she has committed a disgraceful crime in Israel by being promiscuous while living in her parents’ home. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you.

          Yup, I think we can do better. It's right in Commandment #10, you should not want your neighbour's slave. Notice there is no commandment against have a slave? We've made improvements over that last few thousand years.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What if the "slave" offered his services as payment for debt? As they often did in those days.

            1. A Troubled Troll profile image61
              A Troubled Trollposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              If it is a female 'slave' for sexual slavery, it's heaven, no harassment charges.lol

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Duly noted

            2. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Still not allowed today. No need to own him. Pay him and he will pay you back. Common sense really. I haven't seen that on Judge Judy yet. "You owe him $5000 and have no money so you are his slave for a month. You can beat him as much as you like as long as he remains alive. Is that what you would like to see?

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                No. Again, those were laws of men. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus pointed to the correct interpretation of the laws if God. Quote me something else from him!!! HE is the way. smile

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You've confused me again. You claimed it okay if the person who owes money makes himself a slave to the person he owes money to. Perhaps your replied to the wrong person.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Now you are focusing on me smile Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Remember?

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Notice that the believer is unable to conceive of a world without biblical instruction.

      1. A Troubled Troll profile image61
        A Troubled Trollposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Notice that the believer is unable to conceivelol

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          And you??? smile

      2. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Ladies and Gentleman, we have a taker!!! Finally. Sogladitsu! smile go ATM! What is the absolute truth?! And please don't say children are dying, we know.

  24. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    I think I spelled that word wrong. Sorry smile but you know what I mean!!! smile

  25. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    No... Same post!!! smile who did you call dissonant? I am the one belief believer remember? You are the ones with many.

    1. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's not on point.  Cognitive dissonance occurs when your beliefs contradict what you say they are.  For instance, you might say you worship a LOVING GOD, however scripture paints a picture of a bloodthirsty, evil, childish psychopath.  This is exactly where dissonance occurs...and this is when you go into your strategy to reduce the dissonance.  The way i reduced the dissonance was to just admit that the god of the bible is imaginary.  Dissonance removed!  Instantly!

      The only other way is to embrace dishonesty.  However, I understand how much courage it takes to be honest in a society of, inadvertently, dishonest believers.  Fear allows silly superstitions to rule the day...

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Awwww!!! wink
        To me, this same dissonance can be displayed in the fact that YOU and YOUR COHORTS do not believe in this "imaginary" God. wink then fervently debate that fact! (No Tooth Fairy OPs for me!!! wink)
        Trying to reason it away to calm your "conflict"???
        Is that NOT funny??? And dissonant???
        I have never seen my God as a bloodthirsty nothing. I find no fault in him whatsoever smile
        Dissonant would not accurately describe my dilemma.  It is actually the "dissonance" of most of you smile

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You're not bothered by this?

          Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT
          Anyone who is captured will be cut down—run through with a sword.
 Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped.

          “Look, I will stir up the Medes against Babylon. They cannot be tempted by silver or bribed with gold.
The attacking armies will shoot down the young men with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies 
and will show no compassion for children.”

          Exodus 21:15 NKJV
          And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

          Leviticus 20:10 NLT
          If a man commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.

          Leviticus 21:9 NLT
          If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father’s holiness, and she must be burned to death.

          2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NKJV
          Then they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; 13 and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Those were instructions by God (according to the bible). They sound evil to me. You may want to reread them.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You are ignoring major factors.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I am ignoring no factors. You are justifying atrocities.

          2. MsJunieB profile image61
            MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Most of the Bible quotes you have been using are Old Testament. An eye for an eye was  the logic in that time. The New Testament changed most of the thoughts you are quoting.
            Mark 12:31 Love you neighbor as yourself.
            Matthew 7:12 Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
            Ever heard of these verses? They used to be popular in America.

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Good point, but that doesn't excuse the OT does it. Do you justify the OT as not being the word of God? Or do you think God used to be all violent and mean, but now he's all loving.

              1. MsJunieB profile image61
                MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                God didn't change we evolved. The Middle East still has people that live by the eye for an eye philosophy. Not to say the US doesn't, look at our gangs, but we try to see the other persons side of the issue and respect others. Then, again it may be we are to busy keeping up with the Jones and don't have time to be violent. Remember the "Silent Majority" from a few years ago? We weren't silent just too busy with both parents working, a house and kids to protest, etc. Look at us now, the Occupiers were college age or unemployed for the most part because the ones that work for a living don't have time to think about what is going on much less protest.
                In other words, God didn't change peoples needs and circumstances changed. We changed what we needed from Him.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  And He was unable to anticipate this? Weird. wink

                2. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Ephesians 6:5 (NLT)
                  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

                  Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT
                  Anyone who is captured will be cut down—run through with a sword.
 Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped.

                  “Look, I will stir up the Medes against Babylon. They cannot be tempted by silver or bribed with gold.
The attacking armies will shoot down the young men with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies
and will show no compassion for children.”

                  Are you sure this sounds like the same God of the NT?

                  Americans are NOT know for seeing the other's side of view. Americans have no idea what is going on in the middle east, you don't even know what's going in the country right next to you.

                  1. MsJunieB profile image61
                    MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Why do we negotiate with other countries if we trying to see their side and compromise?
                    I live in Texas so I know a lot of what is going on in Mexico. I resent the fact that the Federal Government has posted areas in South Texas, telling us it is too dangerous to travel in our own country, because they are too tolerant of other countries. Drug cartels are doing more than causing trouble in Mexico, their citizens-not all illegal aliens are cartel members-are retaking parts of our country and running it however they wish.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Uh no, the OT was the unquestionable, irrevocable and undeniable word of God. It wasn't logic at all.



              Yes, it is interesting how the unquestionable, irrevocable and undeniable word of God flip-flopped. Oops! lol

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Jesus did not change the word of God. Jesus changed the interpretation of the law of God for those who desire him. He changed bad percrptions. He is still doing that.

        2. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          No.  Your understanding of logic needs to be remedied.  Do you not understand that to deny the lie that you and your ilk proposes, of a silly childish fairytale god. circumvents cognitive dissonance?  By contrast...when continuing to believe the lie, you have to tell more lies...and more lies...and more lies...just to get some relief from the dissonance.  You are standing on very shaky ground, psychologically.



          There is no fact to debate.  We are debating the veracity of an ancient book of abject nonsense, written by dubious authors, stating silly childish fantasies, and trying to make the masses believe that this was actually inspired by the creator of the universe.



          Atheist are not TRYING to reason this nonsense away.  By denying this ridiculous claim outright, they completely avoid the dissonance.



          Of course, the most likely course of action, of someone who rigidly refuses to admit error, is to become unbalanced, and assert outright dishonest statements.  Madness!

           

          You and I both know that is a lie, but I understand why believers MUST lie.  It's the last haven to escape the dissonance.  Do you realize how much of a stranglehold this ridiculous fraudulent nonsense has on our lives?  Evolve, please!

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Don't you see...!??? Your "evolution" can begin right now by flicking to another channel??? I am evoled already smile
            It is YOU who's "got some 'splainin' to do". wink I have all the fact/answer I need. I ask no questions of you concerning the place that YOU have decided to place your faith. I don't really have a stake in that. I am nor confused nor lying. You and YOUR dissonance lies to you. It is telling you that you do not believe my message. And you, are trying to refute that with the "lie" that you have been "informed" in another direction.
            Look at it this way: I know that the "tooth fairy" is a myth. It made children feel good about losing teeth, I guess. So, i need no "proof" that she doesn't exist. In turn, I need no proof that she does exist. She is of NO concern to me. Furthermore, I will not join forums that discuss her period.
            But Jesus gets my attention smile obviously, YOURS TOO. Isn't that funny??? smile

            1. getitrite profile image73
              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Your perception is egregiously distorted.  NOT believing in the tooth fairy cannot be compared to NOT believing in your foolish god, since your government is in agreement on this issue.  They tell you JUST WHAT TO BELIEVE, and you fearfully and blindly acquiesce.  If they would have told you that the tooth fairy was real, you would have believed that too! Trust me.

              Secondly, the tooth fairy has no effect on our lives, since it does not try to pass laws that discriminate against certain groups, or impose morality upon society.  It also never burned innocent women at the stake, or committed genocide against indigenous people...or enslaved millions.

              People like you have to be confronted, because your beliefs have proven to be ANTI-HUMAN.  As many more people awake from the slumber of deluded belief, you must realize that you have, now, lost carte blanche status, and your beliefs are in our sights, targeted for annihilation.

              Your MESSAGE is as insignificant as it is absurd, but it is the fact that the government allows, and even sanctions such nonsense, that is disturbing.  This has to change.

              1. Chris Neal profile image75
                Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Which government are you referring to?

                And are you always so martial in your statements?

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hope you and your family are well!

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Me too!!! smile

                  2. Chris Neal profile image75
                    Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you very much. It's still one day at a time. But the well wishes are always appreciated!

                2. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  "One nation, UNDER GOD"



                  Loaded question.

                  Hope life is content for you.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Very smart of you to hope for something for someone else, that you long for. You just might get it! smile so proud of your "baby-steps" Congratulations!!! You just might get it. smile

                  2. Chris Neal profile image75
                    Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    That whole thing about "Under God" is not quite as cut-and-dry as many people on both sides want to think. Sounds like a good idea for a hub!

              2. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                If there is no God, and you are sure of that, you need no explanation pro or con.
                Anything that goes contrary to what Jesus did/said is against God. The government was not there "that night". The government taught me nothing but the law of this land and how it can be broken by the powers that be. This world is run by forces that are against God, not for. God runs the people that belong to him. If you do not want that and you know that it is silly beyond belief, why stay here to discuss it with me, a believer? You can't even see how silly it is to debate what you believe to be fallacy??? If you are trying to change some laws, you should be talking to the government, not me, again. smile

                1. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Yep the imaginary son of a non-existent deity.  Makes perfect sense.



                  But why do you think they sanction your ridiculous beliefs?



                  The god that your government, in collaboration with the witch doctor, created,  Yes.  MAKES PERFECT SENSE!



                  The government...and the witch doctor sent a proxy.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    The Lord is real. I cannot convince you of that. It's cheating smile now if you want what the father has, ask and it shall be given. If you don't want it, keep hanging on to people who do. Isaiah said, I'm not gon' let you go til you bless me Lord smile I guess it is fine for you too. Stick around! smile

                  2. MsJunieB profile image61
                    MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    By the way, Jesus himself was not imaginary. There is proof He existed. The question has always been was He God's Son or not.

                    To change the subject just a little how do people without faith in God get through life? Isn't it scary and depressing? Real question, I'm not making fun of you, getitrite.

              3. MsJunieB profile image61
                MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                How getitrite do you not remember people have been trying to wipe out the Christian Church since Jesus was alive. It doesn't happen and, by the way the Old Testament is connected to the Jewish Torah. Christians just love their fellow men and women and don't want them to miss what we have been promised. If we are wrong, you get the last laugh if not we don't want anyone to miss God's glory.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps you've forgotten about the European Dark/Middle ages or the inquisitions or the crusades?

                  We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
                  Ann Coulter

                  1. Chris Neal profile image75
                    Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Ann Coulter is one voice and doesn't speak for all Christians, not even all conservative Christians, not even all American conservative Christians.

                    I know she doesn't speak for me.

                2. getitrite profile image73
                  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  By confronting people like you, and pointing out just how silly these beliefs are.  By ceasing the indoctrination of innocent children.  By opposing every measure that your ilk tries to push on society, that is based on your silly magic book.  The world is not the same as it was in ancient times.  There is too much information available, that is easily accessible to everyone.  It's only a matter of time



                  I guess that's why  the earlier Christians, coming to America, tortured and murdered the natives in order to force this love upon them...and why they beat slaves severely if they were found to be worshiping the god of their native culture.  That's not love, that's diabolical.

                  1. MsJunieB profile image61
                    MsJunieBposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes, it was diabolical and I resent a lot of things done in the name of God. I repeat, Christians ARE NOT perfect, they are blessed. By that I mean we have an outlet when we are scared or worried about something we have an assurance that "this too shall pass". I can take whatever comes because I know in the end I have Heaven where I will get my rest  and peace.
                    I have seen too many miracles in my life time to doubt. I am sorry, however, that the thought of our peace and happiness disturb you so much.

                  2. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    So the Christians were coming to America??? Or setting up America??? You people really confuse me with your switching positions. It is getting harder and harder to tell who believes what. But I aint surprised. Where there is no God, there is confusion. APPARENT smile

  26. rodelmore profile image59
    rodelmoreposted 12 years ago

    You just keep working on who God has made you to be.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Me??? Fo sho smile

  27. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    getitrite!
    I got it wrong! Sorry, Jacob said it. My bad smile

  28. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Rad Man,
    Most books have flaws. Which ones do YOU believe???

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Fiction.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I see...

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      One might "believe" in the contents of a book, but one has to read it first in order to gain an understanding so they no longer have to believe.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        When you read "so you don't have to believe" the bible, you don't. Jesus is our example. Most people don't want to be like Jesus. So, they do what you did.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Is this you being like Jesus?

          1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
            Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What kind of snarky question is that?

          2. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You be the judge. wink

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              You seem to be a good representative of Christian behavior. About par for the course.

              Which is why your religion causes so many conflicts.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                And you are a great representation of what you are. And you are the fight-starter smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  As I said.............. wink

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You're missing the point entirely, an understanding of something precludes the need to believe in it. Since, the Bible is filled with nonsense, it is understandable as such, hence no need to believe it one way or the other.

          It does not appear you have read the Bible, hence have not gained an understanding of it.

          1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
            Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "Lean not on your own understanding."

            You only have two eyes on the front of your head. There is more to life than you can see. End of story.

          2. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            U funny! smile
            Aren't you trying to understand the bible? Even if you are not, "precludes a need to believe???" You are fun-nay! So if I attempt to understand, I NEED to believe??? You don't be readin' yo posts. smile

      2. Chris Neal profile image75
        Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        True. Or so that they can find confirmation or a deeper understanding of what they believe.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I suppose that's possible, but it would certainly be a stretch that anyone could believe in something and then find confirmation in the Bible.

          1. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's because the confirmation has already occurred before they ever even opened the bible.   But they will pretend that they have come to a conclusion from the perspective of an opened mind.  Psychosis is very deceptive indeed.

          2. Chris Neal profile image75
            Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I dunno. I did.

    3. A Troubled Nurse profile image60
      A Troubled Nurseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      One must waste his time in order to disprove books written by morons. That's the process, dear genaea.

      1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
        Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You are sure doing a great job of wasting your time!

  29. A Troubled Man profile image60
    A Troubled Manposted 12 years ago

    lol

    1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
      Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Those smiley faces were cool when they first came out in 1984.  cool

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, you said the same thing as another sock puppet that was banned.

        1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
          Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          "And then what? It still holds true. They are outdated." he said to the other sock puppet.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And, when you get banned, you can create yet another sock puppet account and repeat yourself all over again.

            1. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
              Gnarles Snarklyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Why not, you do the same thing all the time.

              "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  30. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    I know the tooth fairy is not real!!!  I know she's not!!! Nope! You can't make me believe it. It has been proven with math!!!
    Uh uhn!!! Ain't no real tooth fairy, you crazy!!! Look, I don't know what you smokin, but there is no such thing as the tooth fairy!!!
    Prove it then!
    HA!!!! You can't prove it!!! Naaanaaananana, you can't prove it!!! Ha!!!! I got'chu!
    Please? you have actually seeeen the tooth fairy??? HOGWASH!!!
    EVERY BODY AGREES THAT THERE AINT NO SUCH THING AS NO TOOTH FAIRY!!!
    See, I tol'ja! No such thing!!!
    Prove it then!!!


    Intelligent and dissonance-free Ladies and Gentleman; how did that sound??? Looney???
    Maybe I really, really want to believe in the tooth fairy???

  31. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Hey 666!
    The death of Jesus, to me, is the worst ever!!! I think all Christians agree there. He was blameless of all charges. For you to "liken" it to the death of anyone else is, to me, a greater atrocity than owning and brutalizing slaves. We humans deserve what we give out, since you wanna be so fair.
    God withholds punishment for those who trust him.

  32. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    And, not everyone has access to psychiatry, but everybody can surrender all to Jesus.
    My issue is not as severe as what I mentioned, but the very issues I mentioned happen everyday.
    Our children can really try our patience. And most of us earthlings just don't have as much as others. But the Lord promised to care for the "shunned".
    Can I say it to you any plainer???

    1. profile image0
      riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If my child is mentally deranged and I can't get a psychiatrist I''ll lock him up and and give him food, instead sending him out to die like a wild animal.
      And if I'm powerful like your god, I''ll cure him.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        True colors smile
        My God is powerful, but when you tell him no, he cannot reach you.
        For sure, he can work with a no, but it usually aint pretty. We are not so powerful. We can only lead the "horse" to the water.

        1. profile image0
          riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Again changing the topic?
          The question is why an all powerful LOVING God condone murder and slavery and why he kill innocent people?

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ask him. He is available to all. 
            He is not moved by the same things that move you. He is all-knowing.

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              So you do not know?
              So what you are saying is just YOUR opinions rather than the reality, that which is taught you?
              Then on what authority you say god is love or god condone slavery?
              "God is not a man that he should lie."
              Neither he a man to love or die or rule or condone.
              " He just does not see "it" as you do."
              What gives you the authority to speak for God? And it is not god but YOU who told me god is love and he condone slavery, so it is your job to explain.
              Simply stating unrelated things won't do.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Wow!!! No wonder;  you are really bratty. smile
                You want only the answer you want. Yes, God allowed slavery, he allows murder, he sllows you to type lies about him and he loves us all to pieces. smile
                For your claims to be valid, there is no God. These horrible things happen.  But that does not mean that he is powerless or uncaring/loving. He allows and forgives. But time is limited. Life is short.

                1. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I want a proper answer not contradictions.
                  YOUR god not only allows but does murder.
                  You are contradicting yourself when you say the same one who kills, loves.
                  Imagine if I'm a murderer what meaning does it carry when I say I love the victim?
                  " claims to be valid, there is no God. "
                  You know nothing about God. Well there is NO god as YOU say- a psychopath, a murderer who has extreme human emotions, who kill himself to prevent people from going to the hell he made for them.
                  " He allows and forgives."
                  Forgives whom? Your God himself is the murderer, he himself is the one who make hell, so is he forgiving himself?

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I am not able to give you what you want. I just don't have it. It does not even exist in my opinion.
                    You have your own system. Your "morality" surpasses the God of Abraham???
                    You are a liar. And I say that with the utmost respect of your personhood. smile The confusion in which you find yourself is common. Many stand with you on your opinions.
                    But, every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess... My God is Lord.
                    All others? Counterfeit. I don't really see how we can continue this conversation, though I am sure you will come up with a way; even if you must change personas, yet again.
                    I will be here, I guess. And I will have more of the same bible, God the father, the son, AND the holy Spirit. You cannot fight me on that. I am "armed". And my battle was won already smile i know you remember

  33. pennyofheaven profile image85
    pennyofheavenposted 12 years ago

    My God is better than your God is just too funny! That's like saying my gravity is better than your gravity. Thanks for the laugh.

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's also entertaining.

    2. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Wonderful! I didn't even know you were present. The laugh is necessary. I'm glad to have given you such a treat smile
      Remember the biblical, "my God is better than your God?" That snake was probably pretty full; but I bet he could have eaten more wink
      How you liken it to gravity is much much funnier. Thanks for YOUR laugh. Much more entertaining.

    3. profile image0
      riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      With a small difference- gravity is same for all(the force that brings the apple to the earth), while god is different for each person.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Who said God is not the same? It is our perceptions that make God this or that. Does not mean God is this or that.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The actual difference is gravity is real. wink

          1. Paraglider profile image92
            Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            But how does it work?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Majick. wink

              1. Paraglider profile image92
                Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It might as well be. A 'practical' graviton detector would have to have the mass of about 100 Earths and still would only detect a single graviton particle every 12 years or so.

                So I doubt we'll be building one any time soon wink

            2. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Google general theory of relativity. It's a nice easy read.

              1. Paraglider profile image92
                Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It's OK. I was joking. Studied relativity before you were born smile

          2. pennyofheaven profile image85
            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Like I said perceptions.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry - no. Gravity is not a matter of perception. Pretty sure it works the same for both of us.  lol

              1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Sorry I should have been clearer. Perceptions relating to God. You perceive there is no God. God is real to some. What God is and how God functions is subject to ones perceptions.

                Our perceptions do not change the nature of God just as our perceptions do not change the nature of Gravity.

                Take a look at someone who does not know gravity exists.....like babies...just because they do not know gravity exists, it still exists.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No - god is not real to anyone. There is no such thing as a god.

                  Drop a baby from a fifth floor window and gravity will work the same for the baby as it does for me and you. Gravity is real. God is not - see how that works?

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                    pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You missed my point entirely it seems. Yes gravity will work that way if you drop the baby. But the baby does not know gravity exists, just as you do not know God exists. Gravity still exists regardless of the babys knowledge. God exists whether you believe God is real or not.

                    What does real mean to you, when you say God is not real to anyone?

                2. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  So gravity has nothing to do with perception, because it exists to even thous who don't perceive it.
                  Gravity is an invisible force that can be detected and understood and is directly connected to time. God, we are told is also an invisible force, but cannot be detected and does not exist.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                    pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    The function of gravity has nothing to do with perception no. The awareness that it exists has everything to do with perception. Our awareness might say it doesn't exist but it doesn't matter what our awareness says, gravity will continue to exist. Same with God.

                    Radio waves before they were detected didn't exist either at one time. Yet they have always existed regardless of our lack of awareness.

        2. profile image0
          riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          It's still dependent on the meaning of God. For Rad Man it means a creator, for genaea, a superhuman tyrant mixed up with a reminisced beggar who romped Judea and for me it mean neither.

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            For Rad Man it does not mean a creator. I'm not sure where you got that idea.

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              You yourself gave the idea. Look above, when I said god you jumped in saying there is no creator(similar, I do not want to go back to find the exact statement with my slow internet connection, which is near expiry.)
              God is an invisible force? I don't know who told you that, for some that is a lie. Ever read 'ethics' by Spinoza?

              1. profile image0
                Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Hmm.  I'd take the guess that he was using God as a creator in context to reply to someone else.  Rad Man doesn't believe in a creator.

                hmm

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I suspect there is a language problem and it can't possible be mine because my ability to communicate is... well... but I don't think it's me.

                  1. profile image0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Nope.  I've never really had a problem understanding you.

                    smile

                2. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't say he believe in God, what I said is he meant creator when he used the word god.

              2. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I think you are having a problem with English. I take it it's not you first language. When I said there is no Creator, I didn't mean God is a creator. I meant there is no God/Creator. God or Creator both mean one who created all.

                My perception is there is no God or Creator or any such thing.

                When I said God is an invisible force, I meant that is what most are taught. I was showing the connection that Gravity has with God. Both you can't see, but gravity can be detected and God cannot.

                1. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You didn't read me correctly, what I said is you use the word creator as a synonym of god, that's why your 'god/creator'. God doesn't mean creator, though for some people it is synonymous.
                  Most are taught so because it is easier to present god as an invisible skydaddy and is satisfying to the common people. What is used to satisfy the masses and to an extent control them, may not mean that is correct.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    So - what is your god then? He didn't create everything?

                  2. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I use a lot of words to relate to people who believe in God. To me there is no God or Creator. Please don't tell me what my perception of God is and I'll give you the same respect.

          2. Chris Neal profile image75
            Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Wow, not only is the perception of God different for each person, but the way other people perceive God is different for each person!

            Which means that it doesn't really matter how you perceive God, it only matters how I define how you perceive God!

            Genius!

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Correction, "it only matters how you define how you perceive God!", otherwise it will be a guessing game. But owning a crystal ball might help.

              1. Chris Neal profile image75
                Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                But you defined genaea's perception of God differently than she does. And she's pretty clear about how she perceives God. That doesn't require a crystal ball.

                1. profile image0
                  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That's why I told you to read the previous posts. I only used what she told me. If I create a 'straw' god and argue against it, all she has to do is, say that is not what she said.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    And you do not see how confused you are. Look above and read your post again smile

          3. pennyofheaven profile image85
            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Meaning is only relevant to the perceiver. Each will have different perceptions of God and the meanings will then differ accordingly. Your statement illustrates this point well.

            1. Getridame profile image60
              Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              It does indeed. Our perception of God does not shape God, however.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Agree

      2. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry, gravity is not constant. Einsteins theory of general relativity has proven this as well as every experiment ever done on the subject. And the reason why the perception of God is different for all is because no God exists and we all make up our perception of reality to get us through life. Some don't even need one.

        1. profile image0
          riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Perceptions of god is not constant because there is no God
          Gravity is not constant because there is no gravity, is that what you meant?
          "Some don't even need one"
          Before deciding whether you need one or not, you have to decide what it is.

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No that is not what I said.
            Gravity is not constant because of it's interaction with time. Google Einstein's theory of general relativity.
            People's perception of God changes to satisfy their ego. Their perception of God will make them feel good. Hitler's perception of God led him to kill Jews as a payback for killing Jesus. He felt he was doing the right thing and he would be rewarded by God for doing so.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Interesting! Hitler did all that mess in the name of Jesus??? First I ever heard of that.
              Anyway, if that was his reason, he ignored God when he said, "I will repay"  lots of people do that. But that can never be attributed to God. He gave instruction in that; not his fault that many don't listen. People have their own agendas. Hitler did what he wanted to do.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Really? I'm quite sure those quotes from Mein Kampf were indeed presented to you and others here. Perhaps, you're not reading peoples posts?

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I do remember answering that mein kampf was outside my realm of knowledge. I didn't know the two were related. Also, if you mean the loooooong list of quotes that I inly got halfway through, I only got halfway through.  I can't read posts that are that long. Too time consuming. I do read posts; I know YOU know smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Here you go:

                    "The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement) was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge."

                    "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

                    "This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."

                    "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."

                    "Today Christians ... stand at the head of this country... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the *poison of immorality* which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of *liberal excess* during the past ... (few) years."

                    - Adolph Hitler

              2. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                That's what I'm getting at. Your idea of God fit's with your own ego. It lets you get what you want. For instance, take the typical tele-vangulist. The teachings of Jesus clearly state the poor get in heaven before the rich, but the tele-vangulist doesn't see this and thinks it's okay to take money from old people to support his jet fuel cost. He's getting what he want through his perception of God and the gullible let him do it.
                I've known many Europeans who were indoctrinated to hate the jews because of what they supposedly did to Jesus. My father in-law grew up in war time Italy under Mussolini and share the hatred towards Jews.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hate messes you up, look at your father-in-law.
                  When you let go of your ego, it is then that you find God. He does not work in "self".  "Self" works through him. Therefore, when people do NOT believe in God, it is something ELSE that drives them. But EGO, they deny. But when you are deceived, you cannot see forest; too many trees. smile

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Nope, our sub-conscious is constantly trying to get what it wants. For most of us our conscious mind keeps some control over the subconscious. psychosis is when the conscious mind has given up. Our views on religion are driven by our need to satisfy our ego/sub-consious mind. Hitler read the same text as you do and yet his interpretation of those texts helped him in his pursuit of extermination Jews and taking over the world. Again the tele-vangulist gets what he wants from the bible as do you.
                    God is not driving you, that's your subconscious telling why it's okay to do certain things. People who are in greater control of the subconscious know and understand this. This is most likely the reason for so few a representation of Atheists in prison.

    4. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, it's more like his indoctrinated fantasy is better than yours. Thanks for the deception.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        What do you mean?

  34. pennyofheaven profile image85
    pennyofheavenposted 12 years ago

    Any time!

    1. profile image52
      drerthgtreposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Getridame profile image60
        Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I like Chinese stuff. It falls apart before it goes out of style, so it doesn't sit unused in the closet.

  35. ITcoach profile image58
    ITcoachposted 12 years ago

    All you said is right but the reality is that Jesus was only the messenger of Allah not The God Itself. I hope you will research more on your faith and belief.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus and God are different. Yes, I know. If I seem to interchange, it is simply because I know that they totally agreed. They are one in thought/spirit.

      1. Chris Neal profile image75
        Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Hmmm. Does this mean that you don't believe in the Trinity?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Well, to me the trinity represents the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Three entities in one person, kind of. The three are separate. Joined by the same "cause/philosophy" for lack... "The cause" being the joining person (body).
          Where are you?

          1. Chris Neal profile image75
            Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I'm a full-blown Trinitarian.

            What do you mean "kind of."

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Noooo Chris!!! I waited all night for that??? smile gitouttaheah!
              Please elaborate.
              Three entities in one body. The "body" where there are many parts?
              What does trinity mean to a full-blown trinitarian?

              1. Chris Neal profile image75
                Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

                Three Persons in One Substance.

                Being different in office but not in Godhood.

                YHWH, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit are all God. Although I don't get too hung up on names, I refer to them as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Sounds like we agree smile

                2. ro-jo-yo profile image89
                  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I find it funny that people say they don't get hung up on names, yet they all preach the incorrect name Jesus. The true name is Yehowshuwa.

                  There is no such thing as a trinity, that is a doctrine brought in by Constantine.
                  There is one Almighty whose name is Yehowah and there is one Son whose name is Yehowshuwa. The Spirit is Yehowah not a third person.
                  The spirit of Yehowah is what sustains everthing.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    What is even funnier is the fact that you guys can't even agree how the majik juju works. wink

                  2. Repairguy47 profile image61
                    Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    The Trinity

                    Father
                    Son
                    Holy Spirit

                    see, three!

                  3. Chris Neal profile image75
                    Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You were exactly who I was thinking of when I said I don't get too hung up on names.

                  4. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Were you one of those people who don't have hang-ups about names??? smile It is like you are not listening even to yourself.  We had this conversation.  I told you that I don't know how to pronounce Yahoshea.  I am not barred then, from speaking his name.  I know him by Jesus.  I don't really have hang ups about calling my God by name because when I say my God, he knows exactly who I mean.

      2. Claire Evans profile image69
        Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        No, they are one.  Jesus is not a separate entity from the Father.  Not only did He play the part of the Son of God on earth, He was God incarnate, too.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          So who did he "pray" to in the garden?
          Who was he tslking to when he plead on the cross?
          Who did he say "sent" him?
          He was NOT insane. He spoke of his father often. "If you have seen me, you have seen the father" was a term of agreeance. We are one. We are the same. It is more parable. (We have the same character, spirit, desire, heart.) we agree.

          1. Claire Evans profile image69
            Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            They were separate on earth.  However, as the Holy Spirit they are one.  It is possible for God to "divide" Himself as the Father and Son on earth.

            It seems weird but God is a supernatural entity and He is capable of anything.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Now THAT is THE MOST strange explanation of the trinity that I have ever encountered. smile
              Our God, split himself so that he could come here, pray to himself, die, and return to himself smile ok, I have got to let that one soak in... I'm in shock.
              But now, it is much clearer why we NEED the written instruction of the bible. We as humans need a point of reference. smile
              Jesus knew the penalty for sin. He announced that "the rule" had not changed. He was under authority to "free" the woman caught in sin. He came to bring liberty. He came to bring mercy. He came to die for sin.
              My faith is in Jesus. My spirit says that the bible contains all that God wants his children to know about the many facets of his character. God's word does not change, we can count on that.
              He used to kill about sin. He admonished his followers to kill about sin. He swept lands that he promised to the many wanderers (the treasures of the wicked are stored up for the righteous- they were his children). God will "take yo cookies" and give them to his children. He is powerful and his word is law. Death is the penalty of sin for those who don't believe. Jesus paid the penalty for those who do. That is scriptural. Jesus quoted some of the same scripture when speaking to the tempter on the mountain. "It is written..." was how he started.
              It is one thing to rely upon the spirit within, another to call the word of God corrupt.
              Why is it corrupt??? "Because it just does not make sense that God would do somethings so terrible?" But what about the dang penalty??? Should he have forgotten that he said that because some of the people HE MADE will be upset??? smile

              1. profile image0
                riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                "Our God, split himself so that he could come here, pray to himself, die, and return to himself smile ok, I have got to let that one soak in... I'm in shock. "
                Now I am confused?
                Are you saying your God, came here, prayed to himself, died, and returned to himself ?
                If not, who is this Jesus?
                How does his death absolve others?
                Where in OT it is said about JESUS's death?

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Ok, you are in the middle of Claire and I. The post you responded to, contained the words she spoke to me. Not my take at all. This confusion lies at Claire's door, you must ask her for explanation.

              2. profile image0
                riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                "Why is it corrupt??? "Because it just does not make sense that God would do somethings so terrible?""
                Actually what do you mean by god? A person who got the power to 'create humans' and kill?

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I mean God. The spirit that made people and killed them for their disobedience to him.

              3. getitrite profile image73
                getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                No offense, but it sounds as if neither of you have ANY idea of what you are talking about.  That is the nature of delusion.  Just how can you insert yourself into an ancient fairytale...pretend it's reality, and actually explain this in a way that makes sense? SHE CAN'T...YOU CAN'T!...thus, in all fairness, your assertions are equally bizarre.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  In all actuality Hon, YOU inserted YOURSELF into a conversation about "fairy-tales". Now how's that for "nature of delusion"?  YOU FIGHTIN' FAIRY-TALES wink Then call ME crazy!!! I am really amused!!!
                  This is no fairy tale to me. I explain it in ways that are given to me. You reject before you hear any validity. But that does not affect me.

  36. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    I FASTED YESTERDAY!!! smile
    It is really exciting to me that you said that. It took so long to do. This is my testimony. It is very much like a confirmation. That is the first time I ever remember that word being spoken in the year that I have read posts. Yes, I know it is not a "public" piece of info. But this is how my faith is strengthened. As soon as I was able, it is mentioned.
    Sorry, I know that the piranha will swarm on this one, but who cares? God is real to me.

  37. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    And sorry, I read from beg-end, so by the time I read your directive, I had already answered much.

    1. Getridame profile image60
      Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      We all do it all the time. It is human nature.

  38. Getridame profile image60
    Getridameposted 12 years ago

    One more thing.

    "Then I looked again at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun. And behold I saw the tears of the oppressed and that they had no one to comfort them; and on the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort them. So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun.

    I have seen that every labor and every skill which is done is the result of rivalry between a man and his neighbor. This too is vanity and striving after wind."

    Peace, out. Gotta' go.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nice!!! smile

  39. getitrite profile image73
    getitriteposted 12 years ago

    When this reality is no longer sustainable, we will live, fulltime, in a fairy tale.  At least that's what my bible says. lol

    1. Getridame profile image60
      Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The reality of the natural world will continue to exist long after the vain civilization that you call reality is forgotten.

      I am tired of dealing with farm league scrubs. Send in the first team.

      1. getitrite profile image73
        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for pointing that out...but we already know that.



        BTW, these insults are as pointless and lame as this sub-elementary logic.

        1. Getridame profile image60
          Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          What insults? I was talking to your shepherd. Don't tell me this is the first team. I will save my chops.

          1. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Talking to imaginary beings is not a good sign.  It is suggested that anyone doing so should seek immediate professional care.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              How is jumping up and down in tantrum about a "fairy tale" viewed???

              1. getitrite profile image73
                getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It's according to what degree we are talking about, and in what context.  There is no need to throw a tantrum about Peter Pan.  But when a fairy tale takes over the minds of the overwhelming majority of society, that is cause for alarm...especially when these people tell you that they literally have a personal relationship with a character in the fairy tale, and that this character guides their lives...and commands them to be ignorant of reason, and the truth, and to offend all others who don't share their psychotic delusion.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Ooooohhh!!! You are the world's protector from God??? You are the "common sense" police??? Somebody gave you a moral badge??? Lolothflr smile you will not last. Sorry in advance for "moving" you out of the way.

                  1. getitrite profile image73
                    getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes I am the common sense police...and there are many more like me.  Since your bible teaches people how to be totally immoral, it is a good thing that there are more and more people waking up to this insidious brainwashing that has been inflicted upon innocent children for generations upon generations.



                    Your beliefs no longer have carte blanche status, therefore, maybe in my lifetime, your beliefs will be relegated to the ramblings of the mentally ill and feeble minded, where they rightfully belong.

                    The future belongs to the rational thinker, not adults who believe in magic.  If this mode of thinking, that you possess, persists, it could lead to the destruction of civilization.  It is YOU who really needs to move out of the way... move out of the way, and let evolution proceed.

          2. getitrite profile image73
            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Delusion of grandeur , Grandiose delusion = delusional conviction of one's own importance, power, or knowledge or that one is, or has a special relationship with, a deity or a famous person

            1. profile image0
              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I think I mentioned this was his problem the other day. It's very apparent.

  40. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Seems like the "verdict" is in!
    Jesus is DEFINITELY "the hot button topic"
    His words are sure. His life is apparent. And the sound of his name actually does "ruffle feathers"
    I LOVE THIS LIFE OF VICTORY WITH HIM!!! smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You certainly do cause a lot of conflicts. Well done. Your master must be very proud of the ill will you create and the misunderstanding you display in his name.

      I have to thank you - it was this sort of behavior that made me question your religion in the first place. They say they love you and are downright nasty? I wonder how many others you have pushed away? Odd your primary goal seems to be to "ruffle feathers," and display complete ignorance of the most basic things. Nonetheless - thank you.

      I did learn something new though. I always wondered why you wanted to call yourselves sheep when sheep are extremely dumb creatures who get herded into slaughter houses because their behavior is so predictable. I did not know all you Christians think that sheep follow the voice of a shepherd. It appears your insistence in not reading any books does work against you. Now you know sheep behave as I have described - do you understand what Jesus said any better?

      Baaaah!

      1. profile image0
        riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        What else do you expect from a person who says love =murder(and slavery)?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Oh I have heard it all sadly. They will say almost anything to defend their irrational beliefs. Just look at the twisting and turning that went into denying how sheep behave. Eventually - geneaa had to say she knows what Jesus meant rather than what he said. Like House said:

          http://thaumaturgical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/House-on-religion_.jpg

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Look at those eyes...

      2. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Haaaaa!!!!! You still here??? smile and funny you are.  Uh, I hate that I upset you so. But I gotta tell my story, Sir. I really do not mean to offend you with my parabolic mentions. smile
        I promise. If you go to ANOTHER conversation. You will not be forced to read all about my savior from me this morning.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You don't upset me. I just hate to see you causing so much conflict. You never say anything about your savior. You are simply defending your irrational beliefs. Never really seen you say anything positive to anyone.

          You do understand about the sheep now though. Yes? No following a voice. Simply being herded.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Wow! What kind of malarchy that was??? The entire statement was just downright deny. I do not mind. Deny all you want.
            Can I talk to some people who WANT to talk to me please???

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I want to talk to you. I have been trying to answer your question all along - you keep ignoring what I say in favor of defending your irrational belief about sheep following a voice. wink

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Listen, there is NO WAY that I can hear you. We do not agree. We walk in two directions. Especially on this subject. I may seek you out though, if I need farming lessons. smile

  41. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Emile...

    1. profile image0
      riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ?? I didn't get this.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I know wink

  42. leighmariearts profile image60
    leighmarieartsposted 12 years ago

    I have found that people get intimidated by the idea of a "higher power". Many people argue that you can't see him so how do you know he is there. My responce "look at everything around you and take a deep breath". I refuse to let people try to "convince" me that everything on this earth was formed through a soupy substance that was caused by rocks hitting the earth. If it did happen through a "big bang" then God was the one who caused it to happen that way. Jesus is the key to life. He put us on this earth to do his will and spread his word.
    Religion is such a touchy subject with everyone that no one will ever agree. But no one should ever tell you that you are wrong because you do not believe what they believe, that's just not ethical or moral. Don't ever second guess yourself on what you believe.

    1. getitrite profile image73
      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In other words...

      http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/donvader88/Myspace%20stuff/Logic.jpg

      1. pennyofheaven profile image85
        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Haha that made me laugh.

        1. getitrite profile image73
          getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          big_smile

  43. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes unto the father (Claire) but by him.

    1. Claire Evans profile image69
      Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What are you trying to say here? You saying I can't come to the Father?

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        No, I'm sorry.  I was just pointing out that Jesus and God are not the same.  Why would God have to say that his father anything???? He is the father.  We have many biblical statements from Jesus that point to the difference.

        1. Claire Evans profile image69
          Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Here are some scriptures to support my view:

          Colossians 1:15-20
          New International Version (NIV)
          The Supremacy of the Son of God

          15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

          Here it is said Jesus is the creator of all things.  Isn't the Father the creator of all things? The only way to reconcile this is to believe they are one and the same.

          I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

          Here are other scriptures that indicate Jesus is God.

          "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

          ...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

          In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

          ..the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

          Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? John 14:9

          .. Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10

          And again, when [God] bringeth in the first begotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

          I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

          And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5


          Other:

          "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory."
          --1 Timothy 3:16

          "...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

          --Philippians 2:5-8

          "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."

          --1 John 5:7

          http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Did you read the husband/wife script? Or is that part of the so called corruption? For it seems to me, that to say that their being one flesh would "logically" be???????
            Please look at what you are saying, and listen to this. I and my husband "became one" on yesterday. Now, we are the same person! smile
            I aaaand my father (key word, AND just in case you don't realize it) are one. We are the same person. Do you hear something strange? Correct me please, if I am wrong; but, usually in American language, when one says I and, that usually denotes a pair.
            Our God, his son, and their spirits are all different entities that agree. (See husband/wife explanation above if you don't understand).

            1. pennyofheaven profile image85
              pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              You speak from the limited mind of the flesh again. (Biblically put) You are trying to associate God with things of the flesh and and as long as you continue to do this you will only ever see the surface. You will be safe riding in your self constructed boat on the surface of the ocean. But should that boat hit a rock and sink you will not be equipped to handle the depths of the ocean when you sink.

              1. Drive By Quipper profile image59
                Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You are kidding, right? This lady is on fire.

                1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                  pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No why would I be kidding?

                  1. Drive By Quipper profile image59
                    Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I have no idea, but you can't be seriously accusing the lady of operating in the flesh.

              2. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Funny smile I was thinking the exact same thing about you. 
                The flesh is not mentioned by me. Fleshly thought is not employed by me either. I wonder how you gather your thoughts concerning this. However, it does not matter. We have spoken many times. Sometimes you agree with the bible, sometimes you don't. At times, you have agreed with me about the bible, other sometimes you don't. Flesh changes as such. Spirit is the same, all the time. What were you saying???

                1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                  pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I realize you would like to avoid what I said. It is okay to avoid what you cannot understand. When you get it let me know. We might then have something to discuss. Until then you are free to carry on as you have.

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    I have not avoided your statement. I addressed your thoughts spiritually. This is something that YOU are not familiar with. So yes, allow me please, to carry on as I have. smile

            2. Claire Evans profile image69
              Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              What has you becoming one with your husband got to do with the Father and Jesus? You can't compare Jesus being one with the Father to your sexual relationship. 




              Are you talking about your earthly father or the Father of Jesus? Because you can't be one person with the Father.  You have no divinity in you and you are not God incarnate.




              You must think the NT is corrupted when it says that Jesus is God? You must think that Timothy, Colossians and John must be wrong as they contradict what you believe. 

              If Jesus was the word from the beginning, then He must have been God because Jesus as the son did not exist then.  If Jesus is not God, He cannot be the creator.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                "... the word was God, and the word was WITH God."
                "... And God said let us make man in our image."  Are you with me???

                Sexual "...so that they are no more two but one flesh." Hmmm... According to your explanation, this pair NEVER stop sexing.

                My earthly father and I are not one. But I came from him.
                My heavenly father and I are not one, but because of Jesus, I have his spirit.

                I believe that NONE of the bible is corrupt. The followers of Jesus understood that Jesus spoke and acted under the direct authorization of God. He told them from heaven to listen to him. Jesus carries the spirit, heart, character of God. He spoke many times of his father. They could not be called one flesh, as man and wife, for God is not flesh. But the same principle applies.
                God Aaaaand his father are one in spirit. They seamlessly agree. Another proof from the uncorrupted bible is The declaration that no man knows the hour nor day that he will return, save the FATHER only.
                K???

  44. leighmariearts profile image60
    leighmarieartsposted 12 years ago

    I find getitrite to be entertaining for the fact that his "logical" reasonings are all based on a therory that has never been proven fact. I believe God has created the world in a way that makes everyone question what is true and false. Why else would he have created us with free will and the power to choose for ourselves what to believe. Of course he wants us to believe in him and accept his free gift of eternal life, but there will always be people who CHOOSE to deny him as true. And those people are the reason us christians are here on earth, to spread the gift of our amazing God and creator.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. Our God (what's his name) is more than enough for some.  Not enough for many. 
      He holds the cards.  He gave instructions.  He owns the world.  His words are true and they come to pass. 
      And Jesus, his son who rules beside him, is the only way to get to know the father.  Not Genesis!
      He is proof enough himself when invited in.  He is clear and simple to those who follow Jesus. 
      Jesus quoted the written word of God. Jesus spoke often of his relationship to his father.  Jesus showed us what God expects of us. Jesus forgave. Jesus died a horrible death. Jesus lives. smile

      1. getitrite profile image73
        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You know...it almost sounds like you are actually talking about a real person, or being.  It's disturbing that all these accolade are being heaped upon a mere imaginary character...and just because he kicks butt.  Still, why do we need to worship him?  Why do we need to show such servile behavior towards him?  And even if Jesus is an awesome guy, why must we be his SLAVES?

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Cuz he said so!

        2. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Praise is just what I do.  I love the Lord for all the things he has done for me.  It is easy to see God when you look for him. But to not have ONE opportunity to be "held" by God and KNOW, is a waste of human life and makes you unfit for the kingdom. It aint my rules.  And if it is nonsense to you, why consider it a threat?  Pinocchio don't scare me.

        3. leighmariearts profile image60
          leighmarieartsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          We should praise and worship him because of everything he has done for us and for this beautiful world he has let us live in. He is the almighty, why would you NOT show perfect behavior towards him? And we are by no means his slaves. He gave us a choice to follow him and do his works or we can reject him and live a pointless life here on earth. Not a very hard choice, save people and live in Heaven for eternity when you die or burn endlessly in the pits of hell.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Whew!!! That made ME scared!!! smile

  45. profile image0
    writermom6posted 12 years ago

    To answer your question, "Why is the name Jesus such a sore area for so many?" Well the bible tells us that "many are called, but few are choosen" point blank!  Continue on that narrow path my beloved sister.  God Bless.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks mom smile God bless you back!  Biblical scripture always works.  Though some don't believe it. But I guess that's got something to do with being chosen.

      1. profile image0
        writermom6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, and at some point we should not continue to allow certain individuals to make a mockery of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Some of us have planted, others have watered, but it is God who will give the increase.  As we know, He will give it in His time and according to His perfect will.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I understand what you mean.  It seems though that the mockers will eventually find the error in thought by listening to one who knows the word of God.  How else can they hear? Also, there are those who desire to understand.  If they hear me say look to Jesus enough times, they may. 
          God is not offended by a little mockery.  He knows what he is working with.  And he does not look at things as we do.  It takes a long time for him to anger.  His mercy is everlasting.  People need to know that.
          Now, YOU may not be one to stand here for this long with this kind of opposition; but in the body, there are many parts.  This is part of my part.  I am not looking to win souls.  I am only pointing to Jesus.  I seem to be making not a lot of "friends", but heck, God is good anyhow smile

          1. pennyofheaven profile image85
            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Oh please, you are limiting God again to things of the flesh.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I quote the bible when I say that "in the body there are many parts" this body refers to the "body" of Christ.  You are quite oppositional tonight. smile wrong each time.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image85
                pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Don't worry you missed the point I know. I am aware of where you quote from and how you understand it so I realize how you will perceive me or any other that has an opposing view is wrong. It's all good.

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Cool wink  Your understanding of me is skewed.  But I can handle that.

          2. profile image0
            writermom6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ha, Ha! True, many members. You're awesome!  Stay strong sis.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              smile God is AWESOME! He is my strength. Thank you for your encouragement.
              So many things are responsible for this exchange.

  46. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    666, your slander will not work this time either. smile  Don't make me love you!!!
    Lies, misconceptions and half-truths are what you HOPE to gain from all your badgering.  But I am armed. smile I know what I am speaking about and you will never be able to take that from me.  It was not given by you.  So, read the words of God without scrutiny.  Ask him for an understanding of it.  Have faith enough to ask.  Oh!  You are not who you claim to be, I forgot.  But, the person typing your words can probably hear me. smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well - have you not received an answer to your question yet? Keep accusing people of slander when they speak the truth like a good sheep and you will get negative reactions. Sheep never understand anything - they just go where they have been herded.

      This is why your religion causes so many fights.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        The Lord still loves you.  He will try again.  Sorry to have offended you.  and Stop all that fighting!!! I won't say nothing else, if you won't, til the next time. smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Ah - weird. You are fighting with just about everyone except me. I just asked you a question. You have no offended me, much as you have tried. I am not so easily offended other than in a general, "I wish they would stop being so aggressive - this is what causes all the conflicts," sort of way.

          Clearly - as you did not answer once again - you have not gotten your answer.

          Do you understand about the sheep thing yet?

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            yes, I understand the sheep thing.  You don't.  It is ok.  I am not mad at you either.  I don't mind aggression.  It is the adversary's way.  He is a raging force.  And he wishes to quiet the name of Jesus.  I am here, and I am :)ing.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Oh - so your aggression is because of some one else? Are you working for this "adversary," then? Odd you need to blame some one other than yourself. I guess that is the sheep thing huh? Never take responsibility, just claim you were following some one else like a good sheep. 

              I am thinking you don't understand the sheep thing. Do I need to explain it again? Or are you still happy that you know what Jesus meant, not what he said?

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                When you said I wish they would not be so aggressive, I thought you were talking about he aggressive ones.  Aggression is not necessary for me.  I have "the pen".  Words don't hurt me, and I have a way of using them as well.  I do go where I am led, so you "got" me there. smile my good shepherd, deserves good sheep. I know what Jesus meant, you do not. That is ok with me.  But you cannot let it go.  What's wrong?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah - interesting. You think you are not being aggressive?  Cannot let what go? That you keep on telling me you understand something when I do not - even though I have shown you how wrong you are?

                  Dunno - just want you to stop causing so much conflict I guess. Think that is a good idea? I keep trying to explain why your attitude and aggression cause so much conflict - nothing to do with Jesus - all you. wink

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    You have shown me how wrong I am.  Now that is a blatant lie.  But I hate to be so rude.
                    What is interesting, is the fact that you see me as aggressive. smile  You do not feel that you are being aggressive???   Ok, no sweat off my back.

    2. profile image0
      riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This all what gained from you.

      Yes with lies and contradictions and sentences that does not carry any meaning.

      If YOU KNOW what you are talking about, you should be able to say that without contradicting yourself, you haven't done that yet.
      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/105128? … ost2253415

      Unfortunately, gods words are NOT available to us. All that is available, is what people who talk FOR god. And like you, they have said only contradictions and lies.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        God's words are indeed available for us.  They are scriptural, and they do not lie.  It takes a spiritual mind to understand it. And I think that is your main issue.  You are trying to REASON as my friend I told you about.  It is not a REASONABLE concept.  God is multifaceted.  He will not fit into your little cubicles.  Sorry you have to learn this way.  I know it is disheartening to want something so bad and it seems a million miles away.  But maybe you should just give up on trying to understand and go an talk to someone about Vishnu.  You cannot prove to me that I have lied to you.  Your questions confuse you.  Your "cornering" allows you to miss every point because you look for the needle in the haystack.  The needle is Jesus.  Jesus is right with everything he did.  Believe it or don't.  Jesus is the one you should ask about. You miss all points when you bounce from OT to NT and try to make a case.  Jesus fulfilled all of the law.  He was not reproachable, and he remains that way today.  Go in peace. I am sure that you may find someone who walks your path.  Give them your ear.

        1. profile image0
          riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          It is human's word's that is available to us, not god's. Or are you telling me that god wrote books? If so which book is it?
          G:" It is not a REASONABLE concept'
          What is not reasonable is called NONSENSE.
          G;"But maybe you should just give up on trying to understand"
          As you did? Then what difference I have got from an idiot?
          G;"Your questions confuse you".
          No it is your contradictory and irrelevant answers that confuse YOU.
          G:"Jesus fulfilled all of the law"
          Which law? There is no talk about jesus in OT.
          G:"You miss all points when you bounce from OT to NT and try to make a case"
          It is you who are doing it. You did it again when you said jesus fulfilled the law.
          G:"You cannot prove to me that I have lied "
          But that is there for all to read. You did say in bible "god said jesus is god" and that is a lie.
          G:"Jesus is the one you should ask about"
          Unfortunately he is long dead and gone.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            smile I cannot believe my eyes.  You are so much like someone I used to know right here on these HUBpages.  You are more out of touch with truth because your brain is in the way.  It has not allowed you to see the answers to each and every one of your questions and then some.  But I am not upset.  Please, have it your way.  I said that God is God because God says so.  And as I ALREADY explained to no recognition, it all takes a spiritual mind to understand.  God said so because his son, that he agrees with fully, said so. Then you went to talking about the sabbath day confusion that Jesus straightened out, but still went ignored by you.   If you close your ears.  You will never hear an explanation.  lf you close your heart, you will never know the Lord.

            1. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              G:"God is god because god said so"??
              What does that even mean?
              G:"You are more out of touch with truth because your brain is in the way"
              The people who do not use brain are called morons, or fools or idiots by the public.

              Is Jesus God?

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I am not concerned about what the public thinks of you. Or me, for that matter. I know that you will never understand what I say. Your tools are not effective. But you do have this information. All will be exposed to truth. Reason is unreasonable in this realm. You are mean. But that's ok too. smile

            2. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I just want to highlight this so,  genaea wrote: You are more out of touch with truth because your brain is in the way.

            3. profile image0
              riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Have you heard this, The only way human can fight against error is through reason?

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                No, did you make that up?

            4. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Are you saying we need to remove our brains in order to believe in God?



              Yes, I can see how the brain would get in the way of that statement as it would understand it is as ridiculous as it is fallacious.



              Yes, the brain would not understand what a "spiritual mind" consists of and I would submit that one without a brain would not be able to explain it, either.

              Perhaps, it goes something like this...

              A spiritual mind is a spiritual mind because a spiritual mind says so.



              The heart pumps blood, so most likely we would die if it closed.

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Not everyone needs to remove their brains to believe God. Only the slowest to understand what he says. They miss the forest because of all the trees. smile The brain is in direct opposition because we were not present for these biblical occurrences. We were not with Thomas when he was able to prove that Jesus was in fact being truthful.
                Problem is, you and ur friends are missing visual proof that would allow your brains to catch it.
                Is that too bad for God? We shall see.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hilarious, you contradict yourself when you make claims that others weren't there. Were you there? lol

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    No, i was not there. Difference is, my faith works. I believe without having seen because my "proof" comes from the inside. Using the bible, I was able to cultuvate a spot for faith.

                  2. Drive By Quipper profile image59
                    Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Reliable witnesses were there.

                    I don't understand what ya'll "Hubbers" are all about. A forum is supposed to be a place for an amenable exchange of thoughts and ideas. I was expecting to get an opportunity to learn more about the religion and philosophy of others on this little planet.

                    I would like to learn more about Hinduism, Taoism, Zen and Islam. I would like to learn more about your beliefs. You seem oppositional and defiant to a civil exchange. May I reach out a hand? Will you take it?

  47. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    I found a quote that qualifies! "...a voice from the clouds said, this is my dearly beloved son, who brings me great joy. Listen to him." This to me affirms two things:  God and the son were differentiated. And, God bestowed his own authority upon Jesus. "Listen to him" definitely illustrates that God agreed with whatever he said. Is Jesus Lord? In the sense that he spoke the thoughts of God and was given authority to speak/act on God's behalf, as a human being; as well as the fact that he sits at the right hand of God as second-in-command.

  48. recommend1 profile image59
    recommend1posted 12 years ago

    I seriously think people should quit responding in this thread - it is not ethically right to taunt the afflicted, and there does not seem to be much sanity here.

    The 24/7 responses at any time could be some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder, even more unbalanced than the typical christian beliefs espoused in many other threads.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Why don't you "lead" by example smile

    2. Getridame profile image60
      Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I concur. Ya'll need to quit taunting mutant raccoons.

  49. LauraD093 profile image72
    LauraD093posted 12 years ago

    ***I agree recommend 1 although "afflicted," is harsh...although I did discover this forum under "Hot Topic," while hub-hopping? So what does that imply? The exchanges between the various views here although different are the rights of those choosing to post them as it will be my right to not visit this particular forum again... Calm intelligent discourse between different view-points never seem to happen when religious beliefs or spiritual alternatives (including ones right not to be believe) are presented. Rather than a "Hot Topic," I  think it make a lot of folks "Just Hot ."  To each their own no one posting here is right or wrong, their belief or non-belief has a right to be expressed, although personally I'll be hub-hopping along.***

    1. Getridame profile image60
      Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      C-ya.

    2. recommend1 profile image59
      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Laura - the issue is not the right to express an opinion, that is always ok.  The issue here is whether it is right to keep responding to what are obviously mildly insane comments.  Ethically it is not right to keep feeding an addict their drug of choice, it just helps the sock puppet more down the road of instability.

  50. profile image0
    genaeaposted 12 years ago

    Hi Laura,
    You may want to ensure that you are not sent the posts from this forum by pressing the unfollow button.
    This has proven to be a hot topic by the many many posts.
    I am not interested in transforming any opinions, only offering the knowledge of God through the life and death of Jesus, to those who want to hear. Most do not agree and that is expected. But since you seem to have implied that you are not interested, you may want to save yourself the constant influx of "Hot Topic" posts.
    Have a great day!!! smile

    1. Getridame profile image60
      Getridameposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The word of God does not return void.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I know... smile

 
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