I just wanted to say a big thank you to all my religious friends here. I guess I have been wondering and asking myself whether I made the right choices for a while. You - know - could I be wrong? Is there really a god? Those sort of questions. Well, you have helped me to answer those questions, for which I thank you.
I used to be able to have some interesting discussions about beliefs here, but slowly more and more aggressive religious types have appeared, and spread their version of love.
The men who hate to see women choosing an abortion and post photos of dead babies. The ones who hide behind fake user names like "quietnessandtrust" and "underhiswings" and "onusonus" and "thetruthhurts" etc, etc, etc....
And even some muslimists who are shouting their particular hatred of free masons and bikinis or whatever it is they are scared of.
So - thank you all. I appreciate the fact that you are all honest enough to show the true meaning of religious "love" and "turning the other cheek." Sarcasm.
I am unlucky enough to be able to divine the intent behind the words - even through an electronic medium like this forum. And although you people have somehow managed to persuade yourselves that this is "love," you really need to ask yourselves why this "love" creates so much animosity and why there has been so much conflict around your beliefs.
Killing people for the government to "save" them? Really?
You love me so much you will shout me down, insist I am wrong and refuse to listen to what I have to say - because you already know the truth? Really?
Posting photographs of dead babies?
You do not need to be able to demonstrate any proof of your god other than your "rational" belief in the fact that this could be the only possible answer because you cannot imagine there not being a god? And this is love?
Ask yourselves how many times you are "attacked without provocation,"...... Yeah - happens a lot doesn't it?
That is because you are provoking an attack every time you tell some one that you have the "moral authority," and you will "love," them so much they feel like slitting their wrists.
So - you guys have asked me to leave over and over and over. You have complained to the hubpages team on numerous occasions that I should not be allowed to express my opinion that your beliefs are ridiculous. You have loudly asked why on earth anyone who does not believe in a god should be allowed to have an opinion on a "religion" forum.
Well - you have finally gotten me down to the point where I cannot take it any more. Which was your intention all along.
So, it is time for me to stop interacting here. I will leave you in peace to congratulate each other about how much you "love" everyone and looking forward to the party you will be enjoying in heaven.
Without me I'm afraid - spending an eternity at a party with people like you seems like a good definition of hell to me.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Do you mean to say it only took 5 months for the rant about Mark Knowles to finally sink in?
Please don't go! I look forward to your sarcastic and often times enlightening comments. I think you are a genuine lover and I look up to you in a lot of ways.
You and a couple other hubbers showed me it was okay to speak my mind about what I really think about religion. So please don't go.
Pretty please? Here is a new song for you. It might make you stay.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZm1TstpjQ
If that doesn't get you then I will have to search for another way.
2,965 characters and 539 words!!!
Not a single one of them has any mention of him taking responsibility for his own actions.
This is what is know as an "irrational belief" as he often liked to say.
This blamer is full of hatred, bitterness, sarcasm, malice and resentment!!!
His OP is riddled with such too.
He wants everyone to take the blame for his hatred as if we were co-dependent children.
Can' t anyone else see this fact?
God plays hard ball, not soft ball. He accepts the broken, the humble, the contrite.
Not the haughty, proud, arrogant, rude mocker who demand "proof."
Jesus is not a puppet on the "pull string of proof" and waiting to prove Himself to some scoffer...He does not operate that way and the sooner you believers get that point, the better off you will be and stop trying to "prove" things to these kinds of men and women.
He just laughs at them.
Man, I can't believe I made the list, all I wanted to talk about was Abraham and a big sharp rock...
Mark you cannot go anywhere you have been here forever and that is quite unacceptable who in the heck complained? God is supposed to be Love well at least my God is so apparently now we have extremists which saddens me. Do not go! You light the fires and I roast the marshmallows.
I would second that, Mark what would hubpages be without you. You are certainly one of the best hubbers we have here who says black is black without no qualms. Wouldnt want you to leave here period. I know people in religious forum take it to the next level but wouldnt want to loose you at their stake.
Mark you cannot go you have opened my eyes up with so many of your views! Silently I have read your threads and thought about what you have said in them!
Does this mean that I have attacked you? NO! Does this mean I agree with you? Yes on some of your views!! Does this give the right of others to attack your belief system? NO! Does this mean you have been treated wrong? YES!!!! Your belief is your belief and as I have had the open right to express my religious and spiritual beliefs you do too!
I have always said you are the one that has kept the "religious" (Not spiritual) hubbers from slandering their bold false beliefs in forums; as well as their hubs!
Does this mean that I believe in your belief system? NO! However you do not believe in my belief either; and that should always be workable! We all need to respect others opinions and if we cannot come to a common ground then we must come to a point to agree to disagree!
For those religious hubbers that get caught up in ranting and raving; they need to truly read the bible that is God's true word because the God that I serve says we must flee from confrontation and in all that we do show a love that is accepting and pleasing to all however especially him (God Almighty)!
Mark I have always supported you and will always! I ask that you not go to far; be bold do not run from the "religious freaks" who know no bounderies and truly make my God look very bad!
Mark, I would be sad to see you go. I'm surprised, to say the least, by this announcement. I hope it is something coming from YOU and not the powers above (no pun intended). I suppose you may have come to the place where you feel your work has been done here, that I certainly understand. No doubt, you've been an instrumental figure here, a force to reckon with, and I've respected you each and every step of the way. It will not be the same here, Mark. But, I think your mark will remain for a long time here. I will miss your presence here. Thank you for your rationality, logic, intelligence, and wit.
Definitely looks more credible than invisible super being.
Mark, we'll miss you. Seriously, whom I will argue about global warming when you leave?
But heck, if man decides, he decides. Good luck to you!
I understand how you feel somewhat Mark. People who keep making threats through invisible "gods" words are maybe too difficult for a decent mind. You know, if you think about religions you have to think like a scared kitten. It is also hard to get down to the "No, MY god is bigger/better/ more dangerous than yours." discussions without getting burn marks on your underbelly.
The questions is, can you really stay away? I will admit, I have tried to stay away from the religious forums for many of the same reasons you listed. Besides, I don't like having really in-depth discussions or debates in text anyway.
For what it is worth, I have enjoyed your posts despite being on the opposite pole. I would love to set down and talk on the subject, but I realize that will most likely never happen. The truth is, most (not all) Christians that live the life and behave the way that truly shows Christ would not engage in this medium anyway. At least from my experience.
Anyway, I am sorry to see you go. I am even more sorry that you have been treated so poorly. May you find someone some day that defies the stereotype. If you get bored, feel free to come back.
Phil, thanks for this lovely well-balanced statement. In the past, I've seen Mark cross swords in a humorous and lively way with other Christians like you, and it's a pity the bigoted have taken over the forums and spoilt it for the more reasonable, open-minded believers.
I'm not at all sure Mark will stay away, but I think he's probably realised he's flogging a dead horse - arguing with these people isn't going to make any difference because they're not confident enough in their own belief to dare question it. All debating does is raise Mark's blood presssure!
I think the best thing to do with the religious ranters is to ignore them, and I hope more people take that approach - maybe then they'll go away.
I would have to support that choice completely if HP is in the the middle of an evolutionary process of becoming a more accommodating site for Religious Fanatics, who tend to cry 'Foul' every time they are challenged.
On a farm; if it comes down to a choice of slopping the pigs as opposed to feeding my family: Then the pigs would be the next meal. How sad that Orwell gave them a voice and the latitude to remain ignorant.
We are writers; irrespective of personal beliefs & we have demonstrated our commitment to this site. As such; helped provide a positive growth platform for what has appeared to be a great place. To now have either Religion or Politics dictate to the future of dedicated writers here is sadly; highly questionable and certainly not a place I wish to contribute to either.
For anyone ignorant enough to announce or promote your post as a 'positive' result for their Orwellian cause: Get A Life - This One is the Best Chance You Have!
I'll join you for a beer and pizza my friend... happily.
However; A bit more transparency may well need to be established first perhaps, huh?
so Mark what will you do now by a green house maybe... you will have a lot more time on your hands now, and will be able to do something more productive with your time
I really enjoyed meeting you
Goodbye MARK i WILL SHED A TEAR
Thanks for forcing me to come to terms with the militant atheism out there. Here in Jamaica even the social rebels (such as the Rastafarians and their dreadlocked dance hall offshoots) are believers. This forum has forced me to confront the post-modern arguments against faith.
I had to dig deep in my personal convictions and ended up leaning on predictive prophecies in order to withstand your withering attacks. I was looking forward to your responses to the last article I referenced in another thread, that Ian Boyne piece. BTW dont take Ian Boyne for granted, he is a well read journalist and commentator.
Mark, try throwing some politeness around and it will come right back at you. You might feel better. I believe the easterners call it karma. Why blame others, just take responsibility, learn, and move on. I have been punched a lot here because i innocently declare my beliefs. I try to be polite but this forum is more often than not a very disagreeable place. Admittedly, aided and abetted by your sarcasm.
A little secret from the world of marketing. If Mark cools down the religious forum will lose audience. Bad for ratings. I wonder if there's no Mark Knowles, just a persona created for traffic. Matrix. George Orwell. Truman Show. Cervantes.
Honestly I did not complain about ya Mark!!!
I told you what I thought in public.
I tried to approach you a lot of different ways and to be honest all I got was nasty comments from you about THE PERSON I LOVE.
If you think people will allow you to attack a loved one and do nothing, think again man.
You once called me a C - - T and I did nothing in return Mark.
That was just one of many insults you sent my way and you were never banned.
If you got that many complaints, maybe listening would have been a good idea?
I am NOT a candy coated believer and I engage 110% anyone who takes pot shots!!!
Just like my Master did when He was walking the earth, He did not flinch in an argument.
Perhaps you think believers are suppose to endure mocking and scoffing like a bunch of little sissy's ??? NOT EVEN man.
You get fierce with love and it says "bring it on" because it has no fear of man.
You gotta ask yourself why it is that no matter if it was Bibowen, aka-dj, atomswifey, myself or anyone else on a giant list of believers who debated you, how come you always wound up in a bloody fight man?
All of those people approached you in different ways and you still were obnoxious to them and mocked them and the ONE they love dearly.
We love our GOD and just like anyone we love, we fiercely engage anyone who mocks, scoffs and belittles the loved one.
If you think love tolerates anything and everything, think again buddy.
I am a soldier in the army of GOD and when challenged, I take people to task and I do not cry about it to any authorities as no higher authority exists above my CREATOR!!!
Do NOT equate a believer with a chicken sh*t little sissy, not a good idea man.
Go think about it.
Those you mention including yourself ram your crap down others throats. I agree it is a waste of time talking to fundamentalists. You insult with every post and never see it.
I feel confident that in all the discussions no one has laid a glove on Mark, because he does not accept false "proof" from people like you.
Get over it.
ARE YOU GOING TO GO TO EARNESTHUB
Okay, now that I'm done shaking my head in dismay, could you have made a better effort to, I don't know, avoid proving Mark's opinion of believers right?
Mark, I'll be frank here. I'm not sorry to hear you will cease accusing me falsely of being a fanatical cold-blooded killer. I'm not sorry to see no more posts misconstruing the presentation of ontological proof for God's existence as hatred. I won't be sorry to see an end to posts with haughty, disrespectful (and therefore hypocritical) proclamations that respect must be earned.
If you believe I am persecuting you for your beliefs as opposed to addressing how you present them, I am sorry, but you are mistaken. I only took issue with your behavior. And I never complained to anyone other than you about it.
But I am sorry for how people have very badly misrepresented religion to you. I am sorry for the decline in civility in these forums. I'm sorry for calling you a troll and for dubbing you Grendel. (Although if you enjoyed the too-obvious literary reference, I'll take that back and be glad to be of service.)
And I will be sorry if you give up hubbing on account of anyone mistreating you.
Illegitimis nils carborundum, and all that.
I take the position of GOD on the matter when it comes to mockers.
HE JUST LAUGHS THEM TO SCORN !!!
I am not interested in changing the opinions of a mocker, for what?
If they had some humility and quit scoffing, I would talk.
I talk to hundreds of unbelievers all the time, as soon as they mock, I laugh at them.
They get pissed off and mock even more, I laugh all the more.
Just like GOD.
Referring to your Second to the last sentence.
MK didn't write that he was giving up Hubbing, he noted he was just not interacting.
... and Mark after all the dust is settled, I hope you change your mind. It's a community here and everyone should be free to interact.
Unless I am mistaken Mark has only said he is abstaining from the Religious Forums and not stopping hubbing. Why would he do that with the talent he has, I think most of you have misread what he has typed !
No place is it written to have compassion on a scoffer.
NOT ONE PLACE !!!
See the picture to the left?
The seal is the scoffer.
I am.....well, you know who I AM !!!
I don't believe respect has to be earned, but disrespect has a tendency to breed more disrespect. If you respond to petty slights and mockery with more of the same, don't be surprised if the situation escalates.
Nowhere does it say to withhold compassion.
Valerie, you are very rational. I appreciate your ability to couch things in such a respectful manner. We've all had our moments (you with Mark, me with Atomswifey)... I think I've said some things to you that lacked respect. For that I'm sorry. I can see you have an HONEST desire to answer questions. We have different beliefs, no doubt, but I do appreciate your presence on the forums.
It does say to laugh at scoffers.
GOD has no compassion on them either.
I am sure you have read what He thinks of them.
Just look it up.
Look up scoffers and mockers....it's not hard. I am amazed you do not know this already. GOD laughs at them and so do I...Not hard to understand that for me.
Why argue with them, it's better and funnier to
Psa 2:1 Why do the nations rage? Why do the people waste their time with futile plans?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth prepare for battle; the rulers plot together against the Lord and against his anointed one.
Psa 2:3 "Let us break their chains," they cry, "and free ourselves from this slavery."
Psa 2:4 But the One who rules in heaven laughs. The Lord scoffs, mocks at them.
Psa 2:5 Then in anger he rebukes them, terrifying them with his fierce fury.
Psa 37:12 The wicked plot against the godly; they snarl at them in defiance.
Psa 37:13 But the Lord just laughs, for he sees their day of judgment coming.
Psa 52:2 All day long you plot destruction. Your tongue cuts like a sharp razor; you're an expert at telling lies. (Heavy)
Psa 52:3 You love evil more than good and lies more than truth. (WOW!!!)
Psa 52:4 You love to say things that harm others, you liar! (pretty brutal eh?)
Psa 52:5 But God will strike you down once and for all. He will pull you from your home and drag you from the land of the living.
Psa 52:6 The righteous will see it and be amazed. They will laugh and say,
Psa 52:7 "Look what happens to the mighty who do not trust in God. They trust their wealth instead and grow more and more bold in their wickedness."
Pro 1:23 Come here and listen to me! I'll pour out the spirit of wisdom upon you and make you wise.
Pro 1:24 "I called you so often, but you didn't come. I reached out to you, but you paid no attention.
Pro 1:25 You ignored my advice and rejected the correction I offered.
Pro 1:26 So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you-
Pro 1:27 when calamity overcomes you like a storm, when you are engulfed by trouble, and when anguish and distress overwhelm you.
Pro 1:28 "I will not answer when they cry for help. Even though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me.
Pro 1:29 For they hated knowledge and chose not to fear the Lord.
Pro 1:30 They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them.
Pro 1:31 That is why they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way. They must experience the full terror of the path they have chosen.
Pro 1:32 For they are simpletons who turn away from me-to death. They are fools, and their own complacency will destroy them.
Pro 1:33 But all who listen to me will live in peace and safety, unafraid of harm."
Yes I know what you see yourself as. I see a frightened little boy.
I'm pretty sure Mark is well and truly gone from the Forums, at least for the time being. He's never struck me as someone who would post a plan of action and then lurk in the wings to check out the response--although of course I could be wrong.
However, I'm also pretty sure he's still writing Hubs. He mentioned an intention to cease interacting, not to cease writing. (As BadCompany has noted.)
As for atheism, I truly understand where he's at--or at least think I do. I'm no atheist these days, though neither am I a Christian, but during each and every one of my high school years, I proudly proclaimed myself to be the one and only out-of-the-closet atheist in our small, rural community. Why? Because after being "force trucked" to Methodist Sunday School from grades Three through Eight, I'd concluded (quite seriously) that if the members of the local church were bound for Heaven, I would really and truly much rather head for Hell.
What I'd missed in my youth and relative ignorance was the ability to separate the message from the messenger. I looked at the family problems and human failings of both my fellow students and the Sunday School teachers...and even though I did read my King James version of the Bible with hiliter in hand, I saw the shortcomings of the teachers as shortcomings of the teachings.
Then one day when we were Seniors,a fellow student, a Catholic girl, "got me good". I'd attempted to tease her just to see her jump--the Catholics in particular seemed to be really easy to provoke--and I'd picked on the wrong gal. She looked at me, cocked one eyebrow, and simply asked,
"...do you realize that atheism denies the POSSIBILITY of God?"
Uh. No. Hadn't looked it up. Not quite where I was coming from, and here I'd labeled myself for 4 years without checking out the definition of the label.
One thing about Mark: If and/or when he does ever find a reason to become a "believer" in any form of Higher Power (and I'm not saying he will or should), he'll certainly know how to behave toward others of unlike mind.
In truth, I'll miss his posts.
That's right ghost, this guy's god pisses himself everytime someone doesn't believe him. It's in the book!
I dunno, Earnest. We may have a case of mistaken ID here. After all, he calls himself Quiet but his GOD shouts online. Through HIS mouthpiece, of course. You're probably right, though...except perhaps the proper form would be to say it's in THE BOOK.
Sorta looks like his God is the DECIBEL.
your right. no compassion.
From the bible
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
Yes indeed. In that time and place, such acts were considered obedience to God. In Nuremberg, they were considered war crimes. Sort of situational ethics, Turbo Version...?
Upon reading all of Ezekiel, chapters 8 and 9, the passage you quote takes a different context. The people shown so little mercy were accused of among other things, "filling the land with violence." The innocent, those "marked," are spared. The rest only have, to paraphrase, their own conduct brought down upon their heads. And topping all that off, it only happened in a vision intended to serve as a warning of how God may exercise His right to give life and take life.
We don't have that right, hence the commandment against murder. Furthermore, Matthew 5:7 (as well as the parable of the unforgiving servant) indicates that mercy will be shown the merciful, making it clear to people who read the whole Bible what we need to do if we want to be treated with mercy and compassion.
Under threat of death and torture? The references throughout the bible are horrible. Who could conceive of such crimes?
Yes, this is called judgment.........And ?
I'm not ordinarily the type to post poems on here; and, to be honest, I don't know really know what to believe when it comes to God. I suppose I hope there's someone out there, because as a parent it sometimes feels like the only thing you can do is pray and hope. Also, as someone who is so unimaginably appreciative of my own health and my kids', I'll admit that I'm kind of afraid to just "write off" God, even though I'm not without my doubts. Having said that, there was a title on another writing site once - Atheism. Others had written poems, so I thought I'd take a shot and see what I came up with.
I don't pretend to be a great poet, but for a long time I've been tempted to post the poem here, on the Religion forum, because most of the time there seems to be the general belief that people who don't believe in God are living lives without thought or morality or whatever else it is people think must go with not believing in God. As someone who has just enough of a hint of faith to be afraid of being taught a lesson if rule out the possibility that there's someone to whom I should be grateful for everything I have, I can identify with SOME of what get said in this forum. At the same time, much of the time I agree with Mark's perspective on some things (when it comes to religious practices/beliefs), even if I'm not sure I agree with his non-belief. Like many others here, I also think non-believers' beliefs should be included on this forum too (if for no reason other than keeping it from turning into one, big, giant, pulpit ).
And so, as someone who has spent quite a bit of my time on the fence, only swinging my feet over to one side when I've been afraid I'm losing my balance, here's the poem:
Shall I do what is good
and the right thing to do
just because I fear someone
Or shall I do what is good
and the right thing to do
because my soul and my heart
tell me to?
In my awe of the Earth
and its wonders,
in my love for my fellow man,
when the beauty of all
fills my soul with wonder,
am I so devoid of virtue?
If I love with a love
that's so grand and so strong,
If I feed the hungry, give to the poor;
If I share what I have and then
share what I know,
If I try not to hurt anyone or the world
can I be so devoid of good?
If I'm wrong and I find
that He really exists,
and I get to the gates of His Heaven;
Will He forgive me for not believing?
Will He bless me for all of the
good that I've done?
If He'd send me to Hell in spite of it all
then it won't have been I who have failed.
If I'm right that there's nobody watching
then I've been the best man that
I know how to be.
I will rest in that peace.
Has this Thread been hyjacked and turned into yet another.....
or has it remained on subject and in reply to Mr. Knowles?
I believe it is a good idea to hold back from answering the types of posts that you referred to, because as you know if you don't fuel the fire it'll burn out. Maybe this is your reason for stopping, I don't know.
I personally never read any of these threads because they were too long-winded for me.
I hope you keep saying your opinion on other topics.
I would be happy to reap what I sow, I am not so happy for the infants that die horrible deaths because they were born in a place they did not choose and with a god that does not hear.
They did not sow anything yet.
You missed the part where the innocent were marked and spared.
Spared? Now that I really do not get. How the hell is a child's death in any way being spared? Oh that's right. the omniscient god goes in to hiding when little children suffer, he is off doing "miracles" like finding some religionists golf ball!
You missed Ezekiel 10:6 which prohibits laying a finger on anyone marked. All those innocent of the abominations for which the rest were responsible were marked. And even in my limited PSR experience and much less limited parenting experience, I know all too well that just because a person happens to be a child (the word "infant" isn't found here in my translation) doesn't mean they're automatically, completely innocent, and all will be held as accountable as justice requires for their actions.
Furthermore, you are forgetting that the passage you cited was part of a prophetic vision intended to serve as a stern warning rather than an actual event.
Are you kidding me? You really believe that some children are just born evil? You think a child should be killed or stealing bread? And yet you really don't get why some people cannot stand religion.
You are reading something into my posts that I did not write. I did not say anyone was born evil. Rather, I don't hold the naive view that people are automatically innocent merely on the basis of age. The ability to choose to do right or wrong begins to develop at different ages for different kids, true. But that doesn't excuse children who are old enough and do know better. And I'm not talking about petty offenses. Neither was that passage in Ezekiel, which addressed "filling the land with violence."
I have had the misfortune of seeing what kind of violent choices children who have neither been abused nor have had mental illness can make. If you have been blessed to never have known an eight year old boy who delighted in holding his sisters at knifepoint, or a ten year old whose favorite way of expressing anger was to beat his mother and threaten her life, I'd be grateful for your sake.
And to repeat: the passage was a prophetic vision, not a recounting of actual events!
Having seen a bit more children in my life, and rising three of them, I would have thought that at the age you mentioned they already have been heavily indoctrinated with what adults around them were doing, and how they were treated by adults, too. Children are born loving, and this is us adults who turn them into monsters. And frankly I cannot hold adults fully responsible for this, cause they in turn were brought up by heavily indoctrinated adults.
Which bring us to the root of the evil at least for the Western culture - Christianity
Child psychology wouldn't quite entirely agree with you- as many well-brought up children choose to do wrong from time to time, and children from horrible circumstances sometimes choose to rise above them. Children are not always born compassionate and have to be taught empathy, and love is a choice.
And Christianity never teaches it is okay to hold people at knifepoint for fun, and it specifically prohibits violence against parents, so you can't blame Christianity for the actions I've cited.
And don't go assuming that I've never worked in child care or raised any kids of my own. Perish the thought of considering that someone who disagrees with you might also know a thing or two about kids.
You did not get my point.
What YOU consider normal upbringing, I consider heavy abuse of child psychology. No wonder so many people grow up psychologically heavily damaged. Yes, some kids are more resilient to this kind of upbringing, and some not. But again, this is not about teaching them love, this is just the opposite, this is about not killing their love.
Misha, my friend, how many years you'v being in US?
If you do not like it here where "the root of all evil is"
Go back to your country where RED is wonderful !!!
I am not going back to my country, unless I am forced to - it's too cold to my liking over there. But I will leave USA as soon as you guys start gunfire. In fact I personally would have been left a few years ago, gunfire is needed to convince my wife that it's time to go.
Earnest, I do believe it's awfully presumptuous and judgmental to assume that religious people will start "the gunfire."
First off, what gunfire? The gunfire that riddled neighborhoods where I grew up with bullet holes during the gang wars? The gunfire when my neighbor was whacked? That kind of violence is not motivated by religion.
Oh, as I'm religious and I've gone target shooting for fun, I guess it must be that kind of gunfire. It's the only kind I've ever started.
My sincere apologies Valerie, I meant to say religious extremists.
I am talking about the thousands of gun toting loonies who frequent the forums and radio shows who are already talking about "holy wars". Do you need links? I do not have any here, I listen to the extremist US radio at a place where I work sometimes. The CEO has it running on computer for belly laughs.
He also looks at the extremist forums, and often points out funny ones to me.
She is just a little ignorant blamer like her daddy Mark....pay them no mind.
So which is it? The prophet was a a false prophet because it was meant as a warning or followers are ignorant for making it happen? I would say both.
What is the reason for abortion? Is it not unmerciful brutal murder? I do not live in time of Ezekiel and I know what happen but I do live now. Murder for "conveniency". Still we will be wiped out for under-birth.
I have to admit that I smirked at the image of Mark as a singing, dancing dolphin- with excellent taste in dark sci-fi comedy.
Pearldiver, I don't know about anyone else, but my motives were to "show solidarity" for him or anyone else who takes the non-believer side and apparently may be subject to having people send e.mails expressing a wish they not be on here. I pretty much find it objectionable that anyone would send e.mails in such a situation. Do the same people send e.mails about other people who have different religious beliefs I wonder? So, my motive was try to "enlighten" (I don't like that word) anyone for whom "the shoe fits" that morality is not just for believers; and that lightning isn't likely to strike the religious forum if people who don't believe share their views as well. I don't know Mark (although I know the kind of stuff he says about religion ), and I think views like his do belong on a religion forum. Anyway, I hope nobody thinks I tried to hijack the thread, because although I may choose what could be seen as "odd" ways to make a point, I was aiming to make a point related to Mark's thread thread and comments.
My two cents worth. I have to say that I too will miss Mark. And I mean MARK. Not his views, and roughshod methods. His comments were broad ranging, but very short, abrupt and offensive at times. His many replies ended up as (almost) mindless repetition of things he felt very strongly about. many of them being totally irrelevant.
He has challenged me often, to really evaluate what I believe and WHY I believe them. Unfortunately, given all his tenacity to unseat me, he actually strengthened my resolve.
I wouldn't be an atheist for all the money on Wall St. It is empty, pointless, meaningless and powerless. Not to mention, lifeless.
I know Mark is a nice person, helping others wherever and whenever he could. No doubt he will continue to do so. But I think he should stay within his areas of expertise, and stay out of "religion". It's a contradiction for him not to. He is NOT religious. DAH! Not rocket science!
I will pray for you Mar. (I know you don't want me to, and think you don't NEED my prayers, but, what the heck, I'll do it anyway). I only ask one little favor in return. Be sure to let me (or all of us) know when you repent and turn to serve the Living God. I'd love to hear that! Sorry to disappoint you, you will not be the FIRST atheist that "believed". (But you probably think I'm lying---again )
See ya dude.
Mark, I understand your reasons..... but cant you just leave the forum alone for a while? Surely your hubs are going to remain?
I too am getting fed up with the hundreds of religious freaks on here, to the point where I am not going to converse on the forum anymore.
Last night somebody on this forum pretty much told me to kill myself, thats the lowest thing that has ever been said to me online in my 10 years using the internet.
That was a login with 0 hubs and 5 friends, goes to show what hubpages has become.
So I agree wholeheartedly with you, I am considering walking away from hubpages for the same reasons.
Just dont delete your hubs ok buddy
well I must say I understand Mark's decision... I'm new here and I was very disapointed with how things goes in this forum... the discussion is too rude, to say the least.
Its almost impossible to speak reasonably about anything related to religion... we all preach love, understanding, forgiveness, tolerance but the fact is that when someone is convinced about something being truth he/she/them completly forgot their own religion's essence.
For those reasons I just stop going to the religion forum - seeing it from the outside it is now a way to attack others and I don't do part of it.
What counts is not your word is how you act.
Defending any kind of God's Word atacking others? Something is wrong is this picture isn't?
Some words were his unique concoctions, not found in ANY dictionary!
What does your dictionary say of the word 'Ookaka' ???
I'm trying to get him a job at the Bumble Town newspaper as editor.... But... The paymaster is extremely zealous in his religious beliefs
Pearl??? never heard of it
Im as passionate about my beliefs as Mark was of his, all good
I like freedom you see, my ancestors been fighting for years to keep it my kiwi bro
But as far as God .........Its always news AND revenue one way or another ,is it not
Is he leaving hubpages or just the religion forum? I got the impression from that it was the forum. I could be wrong but...
I am going to write this in the most generalist of terms. I am an outspoken Christian believer. I take a stand for my God and through my God. Speaking only for myself, I have been lied about over and over on here and I take it with a grain of salt as the ones lying are prone to do so and there is nothing I can do to change that.
Speaking for myself, I have not "shoved" my beliefs down anyones throat. I speak the truth in a religion forum about my beliefs. Others may disagree with my beliefs and thats ok. But I have the right to post responses to them do I not?
If anyone chooses to leave hubpages or the forums it is not BECAUSE of anyone else. It is a personal choice most often, or the choice of admin. at hubpages.
And that choice if made by a grown, adult person should not be made on the basis of someones else "bullying" them. Which is why I have chosen to stay on hubpages and stay in joining in conversation on the forums. Regardless of how much hatred is spewed my way.
Debate is healthy. Different views reflect diversity among people. Diversity is a good thing.
Having said all of that I wll conclude with this, Believers are not hate mongers. Our love, Gods love can be demonstrated through thought provoking powerful messages. If that is abrasive so be it. Gods word sometimes "cuts" as it is often called "a sword". Do we love less citing scripture? No. We use it both as an instrument of truth and as a weapon in spiritual warfare. We do not battle flesh and blood. Speaking for myself, when I "battle" in here, I know I am not battling flesh and blood, I am battling in the spirit. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".
In knowing that, what is abundant then in the heart of believers on here? Love first and foremost for their God! And then what is abundant in the heart of those who ridicule excessively, mock insistantly, spreading their hate and distain for God, insulting Him, His Word, His people?
It is clear.
And that is the "spirit" that we battle at times in here. That spirit of hate, of distain not the individuals themselves.
If that battle grows to be too much for some then it is just that. What more then can be said?
Now when we engage with someone who is not of that hateful spirit, but one who really is seeking, or generally just wants to know or experience anothers beliefs, then we share in that spirit. (That one was for you fairbear and rmcrayne )
These two and I came to an understanding and have become friends. Do we share beliefs? No. But we share the same spirit. The spirit of love and kindness, of respect and care.
It is because of that kind of spirit we can share our beliefs with eachother, respectfully, though at times a bit heated.
And thats all I have to say about this.
It is people like you who use such ignorant wording as you have for others (That could very well be young people)to read in a religious forum!
HOW IGNORANT AND SELFISH!
This kind of behavior needs to be band from hubpages and further the ones using such profanity should be band from the forum in which they said it!!
You go girl.
Anyone who thinks you are shoving anything anywhere is just a tad oversensitive, given that they voluntarily browsed to the forum and voluntarily read your posts.
I expect they're either trolling or you've told them something about themselves that they didn't want to hear. Hang in there.
The only problem with religious people is that they are people.
If that isn't on the back of a cornflakes packet it should be.
I always gave you a hard time for your wild, usually, well wide swipes at the crazies, Mark. On the other hand the crazies are multiplying at a crazy rate and the tide of unreason is rising. So I will sort of miss you.
On the hand, I always thought you were a polarizing force, so maybe its best you stay out of it. Maybe the crazies will quiet down.
It would be nice to find some not crazy believers in these forums. There are plenty in the real world. It really is up to them to argue with the fanatics.
Just the Forum, if you check you will see hes still commenting, hardly rocket science to work out !
People people people...read what he wrote! He stated he is leaving the forums, not Hubpages.
Told them that on the 2nd page, half the buggers can't read, no wonder they can't understand The Bible !
Atomswifey ...arghhhhhhh ,ya givin me a headache!
Why are you always telling everyone what Gods Job is???
I think He is quite capable himself ,dont you?
Your job is to love , no no shhhhhhh....ah...shhhh
Its so funny, I want to laugh. Here Mark is expressing why he is leaving the forum & BOOM, we are given another speech about her religion and more conflict to follow...never a dull moment. Atomswifey, I know who God is & I don't need you to tell me.
May the Force be with you LOLOLOL
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places .
“Go to the exiles, to the sons of your people, and speak to them and tell them, whether they listen or not, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ ” (Ezekial 3:11)
The most loving thing a believer can do is present the gospel in hopes of bringing others to salvation.
It is because we love we do so.
God gave us our job. It is to spread this message of salvation:
"That whosoever believeth in me shall be saved."
Salvation is the greatest gift God gives us. And how does one come to recieve that? By hearing. "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". (Romans 10:17)
And who is to deliver Gods word? We are.
Love, without the truth is an empty shell.
Haven't you got some medication to take, to knock yourself out for awhile?
Perhaps you're bored again at opening your mouth to change your feet.. surely you could give it a rest or awhile and go find some witches to burn?
The Fruitcake Radar is going ballastic each time you wiggle your ..... point of veiw!!
Mark, I'll pick up on one point that you mentioned- the digression of religious conversations.
This is probably part of the reason why I have chosen not to continue interacting heavily in the forums regarding religious matters.
As I'm sure you know, it's not giving up, it's not giving in, it's not conceding a view. It's choosing to not enter through a house full of violent people with sticks. (Okay that's the best analogy I could come up with.) Seriously, though, continuing to share viewpoints has only digressed into a gang fight- the gang with the most people (with sticks) wins the beat down.
To me, that isn't love. That isn't relational. That isn't Jesus.
Regardless, I still like to poke my head in and interact in a handful of interesting religious threads. It's certainly your decision, and although we disagree in our beliefs, I'd love it if you still poked in to chat every now and then.
Rest assured, our interactions will be friendly, beneficial to us both and maybe even uplifting
Regardless of what you choose, I hope you feel as if you can continue to interact with the those of us who will engage in respectful discussion.
Ok well I should not have checked in here before the Tylenol kicked in but I did....so...
I got two choices AW ,one answer you ,( and I could)or
two, get up and walk away...
Guess which one I chose
I just practically got here! (whines...)
Don't know whether to be a smart-aleck or what.
I just posted in another thread that you actually make me a healthier person. My heart has even raced once or twice, and my circulation went head-to-toe and I even got tingly. Thought I was being taken in the rapture or somethun'.
So glad for the rational thoughts. Glad for the counterbalancing stuff.
Like it, like it, like it.
you aint it/??????? ARE YOU STAYING WITH US...
Mark ,you shouldn't go. We will miss your personality. But if that's your choice I'm not going to stop you. You're old enough to know what you're doing.
Note: Of course I mean going from the relig. forum. I see many people misunderstood
well, thanks for clearing that up i was wondering
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