Will homosexuals go to heaven or hell when they die?

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SirDentposted 13 years ago
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Good night Yawl ....
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Yep!

All the homosexuals can change to suit your myth, 0r "you can be accepted if" how broad minded can you be?
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What about pedophiles, serial killers, loan sharks and politicians who sign off on mass killings? Do they get to go to heaven just by giving their souls to Jesus? Atleast in a faith like Hinduism you get reincarnated as a pencil merchant or camel or something like. What's the point in morality if you just renounce your sins on your deathbed and are saved? Even Aristotle had logical theories on why one should be moral. He didnt seem to really live by them but at least he came up with some justifications for it.
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  After those days, the eternal knowledge of the God of truth withdrew from me and your mother Eve. Since that time, we learned about dead things, like men. Then we recognized the God who had created us. For we were not strangers to his powers. And we served him in fear and slavery. And after these things, we became darkened in our heart(s).
  -The Apocalypse of Adam
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Sapphireidposted 13 years ago
Hello Cooldad,

Seems like you have a powerful line of commentary going on here. I'll add some of my own. We live in a world of an accountable amount of False Teachers, which just so happen to be Ministers Ordained. The problem with that is there are so many deviations and misinterpretations from what the truth is from God, that it is hard for many to know. It would really help each individual to seek the truth of God's will for life but, somehow I know that is a prayer I have and even though all won't, I know that at least ONE person will. Reviewing many of the comments already provided I'll mention the abomination sin outlined in the Book of Leviticus 18th Chapter 22nd verse. Weird that you asked this question and stated that you are an atheist and wanted to know an answer to your posted question about Homosexuals going to heaven or hell. Are you having someone you know that is perplexed with this question? Or do you work in a field that exposes you to this topic for you to post it as a question? Or a child that has provided this question? In response to whether a homosexual can be forgiven, The answer is yes, that's the beauty of having life, we have a chance anyday to repent and give our life to Christ. I hope this helps you with an answer, unless your intent was just to begin a deep discussion, in which case you've easily have done that.

Good Topic & Best Regards,

Sapphireid
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  carolejosartposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  excellent
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Editor and Chiefposted 13 years ago
God made homosexuals and branded them as sinners. It can only be concluded that God made sinners on purpose. If only 177,000 are going to make it into heaven at the rapture, and there are right now over six billion people on the earth, well heck. I'll never make that cut. I'm not Gay...not that there's anything wrong with it, but you have to figure the other 5 billion 999 million or so people who aren't going to heaven, they can join my religion. We allow people a lot more slack. We allow Gays and anybody as long as their nice. All of you Christians can just go away. I hope the rapture happens tomorrow. Good riddance.
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Becky Swiftposted 13 years ago
Has any1 seen the documentary with Louis Theroux most hated in USA?
found that almost unbelivable, can people really belive stuff like if your gay that ur not gonna go to heavin. It's Like still living in the dark ages.
Cool dad is being a Homosexual a crime?
There for is there anything to be forgiving for?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I saw the documentary, their ignorance and hate is a reflection of the old testament crud in the bible. You know, where god kills and tortures everyone for almost nothing. Small stuff like not grovelling properly.
  It's all psychotic bull wash as you obviously have worked out for yourself.
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  OutWestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Any different than the KKK or arien nations people? Racism and predjudice attitudes cross all lines.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  These intellectual pygmies have no peers that I have seen. The family have been educated from the OT.
  A fine place to get a lather up about what's wrong with everyone but self.
  They should be institutionalised.
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lctodd1947posted 13 years ago
Cooldad, your question does not sound like antheist. If u believe what the Bible says and from your statement U do.....U are not totally convenienced; are U? That U are an Atheist? I agree wth thebrucebeat; the Bible is pretty clear on this issue.
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  thebrucebeatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't mistake what I said, though. That doesn't mean I agree with the Bible. I only agree that is what it says.
  Big difference.
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calpol25posted 13 years ago
I dont think us gays would want to go to heaven would not be fabulous enough.....I think we would go to Cloud 9 where its an all night gay disco with every song and people looking glamorous too no hatred, no bigotry none of that.. But over the other side of the gates you can hear a choir so we will literally turn up the Dj station and blast them clouds with good dancing, good alcohol and a non stop party.... Waaaahooo Bring It On!!!!
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
From your point of view... nobody has a chance of getting into heaven since you are an atheist and do not believe in heaven or god. What is your real question?
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  calpol25posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually you got a point there, why would an atheist ask such a question?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Apollonius of Tyana was one of many other religious fanatics around who had a better story than the christian one.

There were many others, but the christians were better at slander than either Simon Magus or Apollonius were, so their man got the front row when it came to all the rhubarb that was sprayed around at the time.

All the biblical nonsense dates back to story after story lifted from previous beliefs. Man has always been gullible when ignorant and nothing has changed that.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here is a link to information about "The secret bible" series on NatGeo TV that is something all believers should study carefully before making blanket statements about who christ is and who his competition was at the time or even if the person christ ever did exist. I know it is highly unlikely any of the religiously indoctrinated will have watched any of the series, but would be interested to know if any of the facts, scientific or historical will be discussed by anyone who has.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysteries_of_the_Bible
  
  I didn't think so........ Ignorance is the best way to keep religion alive eh?
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Becky Swiftposted 13 years ago
I like to think if Adulterer or homosexual has a feeling of guilt or shame then its probably not right, god does not really come into it for me as i might aswell belive invisable men if im going to belive in heaven and hell
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cheaptrickposted 13 years ago
My best friend since before we could walk is gay and he said Good homosexuals go to Bloomingdale's and bad homosexuals have to go to Walmart...
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...your buddy has a good sense of humour...thanks for the chuckle
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kayecandlesposted 13 years ago
Everyone sins, and the Bible makes that clear. To say someone cannot get into Heaven because of that sin is wrong, because every human has a sin-even Christians. Some Christians change instantly once they are saved, others struggle but it does not mean they are not saved. Changing ones way of life and way of thought does not always happen instantly. It takes time. I know one man who was a church organist, homosexual, and after ten years of being a church organist came to know Christ as his Savior. It took him a few more years to really change, but he did and now has a wife. Even so, I know others who still struggle, but they are definitely saved but constantly struggling-and everyone struggles with something (hetrosexuals struggle with sexual desires as well, and some much worse than homosexuality). The truth is, only God knows a persons heart and whether or not they are saved, and I know some who know Christ as their Savior. Everyone can be forgiven, if they truly accept Christ as Savior.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never sin, the Bible is obviously wrong.
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Stevennix2001posted 13 years ago
someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but can't a serial killer technically still go to heaven if they repent? Therefore, logic should dictate that if a serial killer can still go to heaven for repenting their sins, then homosexuals should be allowed into heaven, as they didn't do anything wrong to begin with. Of course, that's just me. I don't know if anyone else in this thread has brought it up, as i didn't bother reading everyone's posts. if someone else has, then i do apologize for reiterating the same response.
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Seafarer Mamaposted 13 years ago
Wait...this is not what I was saying "hear hear" to. It was another comment!
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Seafarer Mamaposted 13 years ago
....The same way that heterosexuals are forgiven for what they are. It's our actions that matter more....do they help or do they hurt?

One's sexuality is part of one's physical, even spiritual being. Adultery and murder are choices.
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quescottposted 13 years ago
I am a long time Christian and had always believed that God viewed homosexuality as wrong. But then a strange thing happend - the married father and Pastor of the Church that I had been a member of for the past 5 years admitted to the congregation that he was gay. He then brought up a valid point (in my mind anyway) - if we always say that God is a loving God , and in fact "is" love, how could he punish someone for being born a certain way or with certain desires? (if you accept that gays are in fact born that way and not just acting on some lustful desires). My personal views on the subject have since changed, and I now have a lot more tolerance towards homosexuals. Can homosexuals be forgiven by God? None of us will really know for sure till we get to the other side, but in the meantime I have decided NOT to judge them myself, as that is God's job. I have got enough of my own issues to work on right now. (And actually, dont we all?)
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! couldn't agree any more that I do with your comment as it stands.
  
  I'll just say that "being" Gay shouldn't ever be all that a person preceives themselves to be.
  
  If my neighpor was Gay, or even an Opra singer, I'd get tired of talking with them if that is all that we ever talked about.
  
  Does that make me prejadist against Gays and Opra singers?
  
  Not in my mind!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did the pastor stay married to his wife? Or what? Was he simply admitting his temptations, or was he saying he was gonna engage in homosexual behavior (or continue that behavior)?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
You religionists are using a hateful part of the bible to give yourselves permission to judge behaviour which neither affects you or is any of your concern in anyway.

I feel sorry for any homophobe.... it is like admitting that you don't have any love for anyone because a book told you who are the only people who have the "truth"

Truth is something you put aside when you were indoctrinated in to a sad sect that hates anything that is outside their tiny safety zone. Your beliefs are disgusting.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I like to think of it as "interpreting to fit one's agenda"
  
  but otherwise, unfortunately, I have to agree with you earnest.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What an agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It starts with
  
  "I don't like Gays for (insert reason here)"
  
  Then moves into "I'm going to find scripture to prove that I am right"
  
  Then goes to "My hatred is fine because an obscure passage or two in the bible can vaguely be translated to fit my opinion"
  
  Then it moves to picketing a funeral because the dead person was gay.
  
  Not all, or even the majority, of Christians feel this way. The ones that do are just the loudest.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How rude and hateful!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rude to you maybe, but the other word you wanted was truthful.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
When my kids were little we lived in a street with a neighbour who used to ring the police because our children were laughing and throwing a ball. Warning after warning from the police never stopped her. She sat behind a curtain in the unlit front room looking out at the street all day to see if someone would do something she could report.
I think she has moved to America and posts on these forums myself!
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mega1posted 13 years ago
I thought I check in to this thread just to see how anything with such a title as this thread has could be getting so much attention over so many days - I really can't believe you are all still giving each other an arguement over it. First of all, the whole concept of a heaven for those who are "righteous" as defined by some narrow principals of how to live life is so strange and wrong, I can't believe that people still believe in it and want to foist it on others of whom they disapprove.

Second, selecting a group and asking whether you believe they'll get to heaven is something people do when they are in second grade. Adults are seriously thinking this way! Amazing!

Third, if you really want to argue about it with people you know must have a few screws loose, where is that at?

I'm just tired of seeing this thread at the top of the que everytime I look into the forums, so I'm saying so! Let's ignore these religionists or whatever you want to call them, let them pat each other on the back for being the "chosen" and go on with life as it really is! You'll never convince them to think any other way.

And yes, I know I brought the thread to the top again, but only becuz I want to appeal to reason - yes. Reason!
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quescottposted 13 years ago
@ Brenda - in answer to your question, at the time that the Pastor announced that he was gay, he and his wife also announced to the church that they had been divorced for just over a year (after 3 kids and being married for 20yrs). His wife said that she knew when they met that he had these feelings but she loved him and as he was from a family of ministers, they tried to do the "right thing" and got married. A lot of people left the church and it ended up going into bankrupcy, but as I said in my earlier post - I ended up "broadening" my opinions on the subject and actually grew as a person. None of us really know for sure what God feels on this issue, we just have opions. And since it does not anywhere in the bible require me to "hate" homosexuals, I choose to love them. Or at the very least to mind my own business and not add to their burdens. There is such a weight that is lifted off of your shoulders when you choose to stay out of other peoples business. We should all try it sometime.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. And if the liberal activists would mind their own business and stop adding to the burdens society already has, our Congress might just be able to focus on fixing the financial mess our Nation is in! Not to mention handle the military conflicts we're engaged in.
  
  Refusing to condone the legalization of immorality is not synonymous with hating homosexuals. I also choose to love them; God Himself chooses to Love them. But there's confusion from non-Bible-believers about the definition of Love anyway; so it's practically impossible for closure on this subject to be had amongst the two opposing groups.
  
  The scenario with your Pastor is so sad! Thanks for answering my questions. That's all.
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  justcuriouserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In your worldview and given the laws of the U.S. and it's constitutional freedoms, how do you expect to make the things you find immoral, illegal? Based on what legal construct? I don't care about your faith, as it has no legal standing in our country. What legal case will you make?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But you and I do the same thing; we all do in one way or another.
  
  It's all them rules that mankind has been adding on as we need them,
  
  Sure would be a good thing if we could ALL agree on just one thing, all of us at the same time.
  
  Even if just or a few moments and never forget about it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Based on the same legal construct the U.S.A.'s other laws were based on, of course. The liberal mouth will say morality cannot be legislated. What a crock! America has legislated morality ever since the Country's inception, the same as many other Nations do----if morality were't legislatable, we'd have no laws against theft, murder, battery, fraud, indecent exposure, pornography, prostitution, lying, etc., 'cause those are all matters of "morality". Actually, we'd have NO LAWS at all. Because that's what the law is----legislating and judging what's right and what's wrong. (By the way, lying, at least to the "authorities", seems to be the last holdout that's easily legislated; how ironic!)
  The Constitution is the backbone of moral "legislation". No contradiction there.
  And indeed my Faith does have legal standing in America. Your saying it doesn't, most certainly doesn't make it so.
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RavenBikerposted 13 years ago
Odd question from an athiest, cooldad. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. etc. etc. claim they know the truth as easy as any garden variety athiest does, I suppose. Your question has two levels:

Does heaven and hell exsist in the first place? If you believe they do, you also see the world as black and white, right and wrong, etc. with little room to accept differences in that truth. If you don't believe they exsist, then the question is moot.

Second: no good deed as gone unpunished. No matter how "good" you are, how "pious", you're gonna pay for it in some way in this life or the next. Because claiming a belief as fact and as truth will always blind you from it.

AS for me, whether I'm going to hell or heaven does not matter. Because if I'm busy trying to get into either, I'll miss to what is here and now. Thanks for the question and ne well.
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cooldadposted 13 years ago
I firmly do not believe in heaven and hell. But I am still intrigued at how religious people perceive and explain their belief systems. I am extremely intrigued at how believers feel about judging other people and how they shape those feelings within their belief system.

I am constantly questioning everything around me. I enjoy listening to people discuss how they perceive life.

Even though I'm an atheist, I still enjoy listening to people explain their different beliefs, even if I do not agree.
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
If you have to firmly NOT believe in god or heaven... who are you trying to convince? The relationship I have with god is between me and him... as such, I do not really care what other people think of that relationship. It is not likely that as I am standing in front of the pearly gates he is going to enact a poll on hubpages to see if I get in....
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cooldadposted 13 years ago
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Can I be curious as to how others believe? Can I still question religion even if I'm an atheist? Can I be concerned about how religion and religious people affect my life? I don't remember questioning anyone's personal relationship with god or anyone else for that matter. I enjoy creating intelligent conversations about topical issues. I find that's a good way to learn about life, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
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  davenmidtownposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you may do whatever you like... I am not imparting rules and regulations on what you believe, how you question your belief, or what you do with your beliefs. The point of my comment, and thank you for helping to make it, was that religious experience should be about one's self. The journey to find what we believe is not nearly so cut and dry and many would have us believe. We change and grow and learn throughout our life and in doing so our opinion of god, religion, and what we believe or choose not to believe in should change as well. As I say... Do as you please and by all means question everything. I am thankful for my relationship with god I am a christian and I am gay. Many would say that could not be as the two are seemingly a contradiction. I was born gay... I firmly believe that... I can choose to be a christian but I can not choose to be gay. I can however, choose how I live my life and in that regard I choose to live a christian lifestyle rather then a gay life style. Being gay is about %5 of who I am. When I was much younger, being gay was something like 90% of who I was then. Will I go to heaven??? If there is a heaven, then yes I will go... I am investing in the idea of heaven by living a quality life that Christ taught. Love and care for others, etc. I am not too interested in the splitting hairs and ideals that are handed down today by fanatical leaders who have more on their minds then just the word of god. People can think what they will about me because in the end it is not what people think about me that matters it is what I think about myself. I am not a perfect person nor do I try to be... but I listen to that little voice in my heart and I know the difference between right and wrong. I value you for being who you are and hope that your choices suit your life. That is all that we should be concerned about because on the bigger side of things... we are all just human.
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cooldadposted 13 years ago
Wow, great reply. I have always found it extraordinarily hypocritical for Christians to condemn gay people. Being a gay Christian must be a difficult struggle. Would you say that Christians having the view that all gay people will go to hell is a more mainstream view or more of a fanatical view? I am not gay, but in my personal experiences with the people around me and family members, I seem to think that it is more of a mainstream Christian ideal that all gays will go to hell. But, I may be letting what I see in the media detract from what is real.

I know there are lot of good Christians out there and I know there are a lot of bad as well. I respect your opinions, but I don't envy your situation. Being gay in this society can't be easy. I do think that gay is becoming more acceptable than it used to be, but you will always face discrimination.
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  davenmidtownposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that there are so many different ways to be a christian that the message of what should be said is lost in the struggle to be a Catholic or Baptist, or whatever. If you ask the pope about the Jehovah Witnesses I am pretty sure his response would be condemning. Conjecture on my part yes... but does being a baptist make you less of a christian then being a catholic? The view of Christians on gay people is irrelevant because it is god who judges us not the Christians. Life in general is a struggle and that lesson is always made clear in the bible. It is the fact that we are tempted to sin regardless of our belief that should be taught today. Being a christian is as difficult as it is to be gay. I think that it comes down to valuing yourself as a person... in the purse sense and without ego that makes a difference. All people are bad or good and sometimes both... it is not a talent that is limited to Christians or gays. Part of the best things in life are often the struggle we go through to get there. Gay history will show you that. Before Acceptance gay people were top in everything... doctors, lawyers, artisans, historians, etc. When AIDS came alone and so many of those people died there left a great sort of vacancy that has never been filled. All people struggle with acceptance... gays, blacks, jews,... I say this with respect... gay people however are unique because we are made up from all peoples, colors, cultures, etc. I will always face discrimination and I am okay with that, because that is not a reflection on me... it is a reflection on them.......
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  The Blagsmithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said David. Christians are not here to judge but to live by example, but in doing so must not hold themselves in esteem but travel quietly and unnoticed.
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mckingsposted 13 years ago
homosexualls will never go to Heaven
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that adequately and unequivocally represents the Christian argument complete, to the point and with every necessary and required proof attached.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well since there is no heaven, I guess that would be a true statement.
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  justcuriouserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Leave that to God, and pursue the greatest commandment of His...Love.
  
  Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The Fruits of the Spirit.
  
  Judge not, lest you be judged.
  
  Reach higher, man.
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
To which morality do you speak Brenda? There is a difference in christian morality, ethical morality and even ethnic morality. This is one of the key problems of today. We all preach right and wrong base on morality but in today's society morality is subjective. To say we would have no laws at all without morality is not correct... it is not entirely right... but the difference would be found in the definitions of tyranny, communism, and fascism....and for that matter democracy... all of which consider morality in different lights. All completely justifiable to a degree... or maybe a situation. This is also not just the plight of liberals it is the plight of all humanity. When this country was founded there was only Christ...today there are more believes then just our Christian God... and each comes with its own morality...
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calpol25posted 13 years ago
I dont want to go to heaven anyways, I want to go to Cloud 9 for a fabulous disco away from the hypocrisy of religion... and more of the peacefull live and let live of tolerant people....
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Deborah Sextonposted 13 years ago
In the book of Leviticus where male homosexuality is first mentioned. it wasn't referring to adult male to male relationships or the common man.

The introduction to Leviticus states,"The name "Leviticus" was bestowed on the third book of the Pentateuch by the ancient Greek translators because a good part of this book consists of sacrificial and other ritual laws prescribed for the priests of the tribe of Levi."

It was for the PRIESTS! Levite Priests.

Lets start with the proper "context"
You shall not offer any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD."

"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves."

See,when taken in the context of the Levitical priesthood it was indicating that the priest's were not to immolate children to Molech as the other Nations priests had done.

So now we go to verse 22.

22"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination."

Notice how it does not mention that women were not to lie with women?
You might say that they excluded woman due to their diminished status due to male chauvinistic...they didn't need to be "included".
But no...that's not the case. In the next verse they are mentioned along "with" the men.
"You shall not have carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things are abhorrent. "

Now why is that? Because it was referring to the practices of other Nations priests. And the practice of these priests that entailed sexual fertility rites with effeminates(of a man or boy) Having behavior or mannerisms considered not masculine or typical of a woman or girl; feminine. Also referred to as Catamites.

Catamites. boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the "cup bearer of the gods," whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated Sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's correct. The term is qadesh/qedeshim in Hebrew. The female version, qedesha/qedeshot does not refer to a lesbian, or even a streetwalking prostitute; it refers to a cult temple prostitute.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Since the priesthood was only for men, why would you use this scripture to imply being a lesbian is not included in the list of sins? Or are you?
  Romans 1:26
  Man is the term given by God to the human creation. There is the male of man and the female of man. Genesis 1:27
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Hello Deborah.

Nice work!
That is the best understanding of the biblical meaning I have seen on this issue.

It helps that you know and use the words that were written in the original language and decipher the meaning from there. I learned a couple of things from you here, and recalled some of it from my own brief formal studies and related research done many years ago.

You know your stuff.
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DouglasTullposted 13 years ago
What always amazes me is how people attack one another and cannot seem to have a respectful discussion with one another. Whether you agree with someone or not I think it is rude to just cast a wide swath of judgement, anger, and hatred. I am a Christian and I hold to a specific worldview, my believe is that homosexuality is a sin, I also feel the same way about adultery, divorce, fornication and many other things. However, I can tell you this i would fight to the death to ensure that everyone has the right to believe what they want, and live their life as they wish. I treat people with respect, dignity, and honor no matter what their color, creed, race, sex, orientation, age, and nationality. We need to focus on working together and acting like mature adults so that we can actually accomplish worthwhile things. All the arguing and judging does not nothing but breed hatred, contempt, and chaos.
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  calpol25posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you there I am a homosexual who is acceptant and tolerant of christians, I believe in the live and let live way as I dont judge christians because I dont see what they have done to deserve such persecution, However I do not like it when they unacceptably attack gay people quoting bible passages and spreading the word of hate rather than god.
  Any how I too would fight to the death for a tolerant and acceptant of all society as well as being live and let live.
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  DouglasTullposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never did understand that why some Christians feel the need to do that. I don't believe that God wants anyone to be judged liked that. Jesus taught to love, forgive, care, and share. I have friends who are homosexual and the one thing they say is they hate when people do that. That's why I always say to love people and treat them with respect. I agree with you Cal you did nothing to deserve to be persecuted, so why should I.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Quoting scripture is what we are supposed to do. It is not supposed to be done in hate or anger. It is supposed to be done knowing full well all are able to sin and are guilty of sin.
  Likewise there is just as much hate for Christians. A true Christian wants you to live so that you may come to the knowledge of the truth. You must make the decision when you are presented with the truth whether to accept it or not.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm... I often wondered how holy wars got started, now I know.
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
If there is a heaven i bet some of the "Christians" on this thread will be shocked when they don't get in...
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  DouglasTullposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Homophobes are a dying breed thank goodness!

Amazing what a decent education will do. All these kids I know who I have watched grow up since they were 8 years old in all the local lacrosse teams, all the kids who are friends of my grandchildren and not a homophobes amongst the lot of them as far as I know.
I am truly blessed, Ramen.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Makes you hopeful for the future
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The new breed of kids are switched on.
  I have never seen a more polite, well mannered broad minded batch of humans than the younger generations.
  
  Sure their are some kids who need help, but most are terrific!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Seeing as this thread is seething with fundies, this may be a good place to drop a bit of reality just to be different.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 4368886725

Don't bother to thank me, just make sure you look a bit further afield next time eh?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
If there was a god, the homophobes would be the ones going to hell. Haters of people the lot of them no matter what smarmy crud they come up with about loving the sinner.

Ladies and gentlemen you don't get to decide what is right for others, you just have to stop being the problem.
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christiansisterposted 13 years ago
Jesus said "Judge not and you will not be judged, Forgive and you will be forgiven." Many christians say that sodomy is against the Bible. Which it is true, sodomy is condemned in the Bible. But, if many of these people who are willing to condemn homosexuals went to the doctor and the doctor said, "We see a problem with some of your tests, I want you to come in for a colonoscopy Thursday afternoon. Talk to my nurse when you leave and set up an appointment on your way out." How many are sure to say "No that is not within my belief system. Sodomy is wrong." It will be rationalized by saying it is for medical purposes and therefore exempt from the condemnation. But, Jesus said "Physician heal thyself." Sodomy is Sodomy no matter the purpose. We all have fallen short of the Glory of God and Jesus died for us all. We should be more careful who we condemn, if anybody. Just as Jesus told the prostitute after she was about to be stoned. "Where are your accusers?" When he told them "The one with no sin cast the first stone." Just points to ponder for us all.....With much love
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Why don't christians have enough guts to admit their book is homophobic and be done with the subject.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnesthub, they will never see. Just look at the lengths they go through just to defend it. I've said it before, they choose to focus on the anti-gay passages but completely ignore the anti-women and pro-slavery passages. If you are going to take the bible literally you don't skim over the stuff you don't agree with. That is called hypocrisy.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well you know, that if they aren't following something from the bible, it is because they are under grace....All others not following what they don't like, are going straight to hell though.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is an afterlife. It can be peacefully eternal. I hope you all will seek the only way into it.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you proved my point.
  
  I never said anything about there being an afterlife or not. I stated that those believers that do not follow the bible attempt to justify their actions, while anyone they think does not follow their beliefs is going to hell.
  
  And by your comment to my post (and making assumptions of me) you have proven my point.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This was not a reply it was a statement. It is you who are making an assumption. If you would go back and look at your posts unbiased you would find a bitter response. Someone looking for a way to hurt with words. The same goes for those who continue to claim the Bible is homophobic. All the Christian posts I have read on this matter have said the same thing over and over. All sin is the same. Yet this unfounded thought continues to be writtten.
  God condemns all sin. Christians condemn all sin, including that - that is in themselves. We continue to show scripture and try to convince all that there is a God and an afterlife because knowing what exsits at the end of life - it is our hope that no one will suffer.
  I have an education also. My little CC degree and .75 cents will get you a cup of coffee at any local cafe. I do not use my education to look down my nose at others. There is more. I have an education not of this world. This is why I will not be convinced of anything other than what the Bible says.
  If you are going to continue to be volatile I do not see the reason for answering anything else you write.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A couple questions for you. Are Christians required to live by the "Law" or are they under grace? Where are the "Laws" found? If we are to follow them, then don't we follow them all? If we are in fact under grace, then why are the certain "Laws" still quoted as sins if not followed, while others are disregarded under the guise of "being under grace".
  
  Who decides what sin is? Where is posted? Does anyone agree on what sin is? And if God decides what sin is, and he is the one who guides us, then what gives humans the right to assume what God thinks is or is not sin for the individual person.
  
  I rarely post anything that is meant to be bitter. Just because we may or may not agree on a topic does not mean one or the other is being bitter.
  
  There is a saying of Jesus that I really like. "Let him who has not sinned cast the first stone". So unless you are completely sin free, one should not be condemning anyone or anything. It is not, nor has it ever been our right to judge what is or is not sin. As Christians, we were tasked by Jesus, to go out and spread the good word of the Kingdom of God. Not to go out and judge or condemn.
  
  *Edit- To be honest, I enjoy the discussions/debates with almost everyone I have talked with on HP. I might not always agree, but I still get to see different viewpoints and that allows me to research into things from a different angle and see what, if any, new information might be found. To me, there is more to religion/philosophy than just unwaverable beliefs. I am always open to furthering my personal understanding of things. In my opinion, when one stops learning, they have died or become stagnate. Religion even beliefs can evolve. Opening your mind to points or opinions that don't always agree with yours, can in fact, give you a better understanding of what you already know and believe in.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I cannot stay and talk about this now, though I would like to. I will answer your questions according to what the Bible says.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know what the bible says. I am interested in how you interpret it's meaning for today's Christian with regards to the questions posed. Sorry, I should have specified that better.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I only go by what the Bible reads. The interpretation is done by word clues left throughout the Bible.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Double Scorpion
  I apologize for not answering you immediately. I do not have internet where I am at so I have to drive in to town to use the computer. I do not always make it into town. When I do if there is something worthy of answering - I do.
  
  O.K. You have asked a lot of questions. None of these questions have a simple answer, yet I will attempt to compact the answers. Please use a Bible to check my answers. Do not take my word for it.
  
  I have never said I was sin free. I am as guilty as anyone else. The difference is I have recognized my sin; as sin. Because of my sinful nature I cannot on my own stop sinning. BUT as soon as I admit that sin is in me and realize the damage it is causing me and others I repent of it. Now repenting is not what is generally believed. I confess the sin; I am done is the general response. Confession is a part of dying to sin, but it is not the extent of it. The Greek word used in the NT actually means to think differently to feel compunction. The long and short of it is you must change the way you think and feel.
  
  As far as casting the first stone. That account deals with priests accusing a prostitute and NOT recognizing their sin. Jesus gives us a standard to go by when He rebukes the Jews by saying, "Judge not according to appearance; judge righteously." John 7:24 In Matthew 7:1-2 is our warning about our judgment. Judge righteously because you will be given the same measure of judgment. This is not saying - do not judge at all. It is saying judge with compassion, with mercy and rightly, knowing full well you could fall into the same sin. Basically; What goes around - comes around.
  
  Until Carry Nation began her quest, alcohol and its consequent evils prevailed. Alcohol consumption was accepted. As laws were made more people began to see and understand the plight of the family held in slavery by alcohol. Today an alcoholic cannot be helped until they come to the realization that alcohol is their slave master. This is what the "law" is all about. It is meant to show what wrong is. Because before the law nothing was wrong, but the law was made so that sin might become "utterly sinful."
  
  Now for anyone to realize there is a better way; they must first understand the way they are doing things are wrong. How do we do that? Should we just keep quiet and let them destroy their lives? Or should we try to warn them? This is what Christianity is trying to do. Unfortunately there are those out there who use the Word like a bludgeon and believe they are sinless. The Bible says the person who believes this way does not have the truth in them. 1 John 1:8
  
  As soon as we accept (believe) there is a Jesus and that He lived and died and bodily rose again we are under grace. The short - short version - I sin, I confess, I repent, I am baptized, I ask for forgiveness and ask God in Jesus name to make that change in me. The battle begins. There is an effort on your part because you cannot continue to do wrong willfully and say you are sorry. BUT you can make the same mistake over and over and be sorry that you do it. It is the intent in the heart and mind, which God searches, that makes the difference. You have forgiveness in the last instance and you are under grace. All this because you are attempting to agree with God. (Isaiah 1:18) If this is the case then eventually there will be a noticeable change.
  
  Now Jesus says, "I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it." Matthew 5:17 Which He did. In Matthew 5:27-28 Jesus is telling us that the letter of the law is no longer good enough. We must obey the spirit of the law. Romans 7:6 We cannot just keep from committing adultery by not doing it; now we must not even think about it. The reason being , sin is like a ball rolling down hill. once it begins; it picks up speed. This is how we "put on Christ." John 3:30 There is something mysterious and spiritual that happens when you seek this earnestly. I cannot explain it. 1 Corinthians 15:51 * 2 Timothy 2:5
  
  To say something is a sin is not judging. It is simply stating a fact. You have to decide whether a person is being judgmental or pointing out a truth. The laws and statues are scattered throughout the Bible. We cannot make it to heaven by going by the law. We have to die to the sin and allow the mysterious power of Jesus life to enter in. It is through Jesus that Spirit of life - that we live. Not through anything we do.
  
  1 Corinthians 6:18 This scripture is about sexual sin. It is one of the "laws." The law was made so that we would be aware. The Bible says sexual sin is any intercourse that is not between - 1 man and 1 woman who have entered into the marriage contract. Matthew 19:8 * Genesis 2:21-22. The married man and woman are one.
  
  There was a lot of information you were asking for. It is not a simple thing to answer one of these. I hope I have shed some light on the subject for you. I will be glad to continue this when it is possible for me to do so.
  
  Perhaps I am making an assumption; Never-the-less here it is. I do not know your background but it seems to me you have a lot of questions that have not be successfully answered by those around you. You can take this or leave it. I suggest you find a non-denominational Christian Church near you to answer these questions in more detail. You are welcome to come to the church I go to, if you are willing to come to the land of AHS.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting viewpoint. It is not that I have questions. I already have my personal answers to the questions I ask. I enjoy getting other people's viewpoints. I attempt (for the most part) to ask questions that, if answered truthfully and without seeing them as threats, will be informative to anyone who reads the questions and answers. I think that approaching a question from only one side (viewpoint), leaves areas of questions or missing of vital infomation (pro or con).
  
  Thanks for the reply.
  
  I see things differently than you do on certain points. But, I think our discussion was very good.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Our exchange was comfortable. Take care.
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tlmcgaa70posted 13 years ago
while it is true that if we accept salvation and believe CHRIST to be the Son of GOD, we live under HIS grace...living in obedience to GOD goes hand in hand with loving GOD. HE said "if you love ME, keep MY commandments". those who pick and choose what they will obey and what they won't (usually justified by saying they no longer apply, GOD never intended, or we live under grace now) are showing by their actions that they in truth do not love GOD. actions speak louder than words...GOD says if you say you love HIM, yet do not obey HIM, you are a liar. taking GODs name in vain is not swearing...it is claiming you worship HIM, love HIM, obey HIM...then stealing or cheating or lying or breaking any of HIS Commandments.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely said. And I won't even debate what is or is not a commandment of God.
  And I agree, if you are to keep one, then all are to be kept. Not just the ones that don't "apply" to us by our own choosing.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly.
  
  It is a very simply fact... there will be no San Fran in the summer time in paradise.
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awareposted 13 years ago
sighs..
that's my answer. shakes head . is my follow up .
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awareposted 13 years ago
If there is such a thing as a god . I hope that its not the kind of god that would concern itself with such petty matters . In answer to your question. Yes i think they will go to heaven. Upon arriving your god will call them a fag then ask them to leave.
with that said.
build your god carefully.
lest he become a tyrant .
ray
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lone77starposted 13 years ago
Cooldad, what a provocative question. Yes, homosexuals can go to heaven, but they have to give up their attachments -- including their attachment to homosexuality. Heaven doesn't have Homo sapiens bodies. Sorry to make it sound segregationist, but it's a spirit-only club. No phalluses or other body parts.

I've known many homosexuals who were really good people. Heck, I used to live in West Hollywood. I always got a kick out of the gay Halloween parade. Some guys looked kinda cute in their voluminous ball gowns, but the mustaches always threw me.

Homosexuals, prostitutes, criminals, thieves, murderers -- all of these have a chance to re-awaken spiritually (find the kingdom of heaven within). Even you, Cooldad.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't limit it to them. You should be adding people who get divorced and remarried. The Bible makes it very, very clear that these people are committing adultery, and the only way they rejoin the kingdom of God is to give up their attachment to their second spouse, and return to the first.
  
  Yes, it's stated very clearly several times in the Gospels.
  
  Will you be the one to break the bad news to all those remarried Christians who are leading a sinful lifestyle?
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Let's not forget to have nothing to do with our daughters when they're on their period and make sure to stone our wife in the streets if she ever cheats.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Your post speaks volumes about you and your psychotic god...... lumping homosexuals in with criminals is a criminal way to think.
People who think like this should be in a very firmly tied white jacket in my view.

Sick, distorted thinking.
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kschmutzlerposted 13 years ago
Being a homosexual is no different than being someone who tells white lies, or yells in anger, or kills someone, or a Christian who has sex outside of marriage. The Bible tells us that there are not degrees of sin but that the Lord abhors all sin. So, as a Christian, I know that I continue to sin but the Lord forgives. A homosexual will get into heaven if they accept God's gift of salvation. After salvation, they will feel "guilty" for living in a way that does not please the Lord (sin) and will probably feel compelled to make changes. That doesn't mean it will be easy but that is where God's grace is sufficient. So a quick answer to your question...yes a homosexual can go to heaven but only by accepting that Christ paid the penalty for ALL his sins...not just homosexuality.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're sick.
  
  I hate how heterosexual Christians are constantly passing judgement no how Homosexuality is a "sin" just like everything else. I think it's great that you're not some outspoken homophobe, but you're still foolish and ignorant.
  
  For something to be a "sin" (let me just clarify, I do not believe in God or any major religion because I believe they spread hate and intolerance) the person has to actively choose it. And of course many will reply "Being gay isn't a sin, gay acts are a sin."
  
  Well, a gay man will perform gay acts. He is GAY. What God would damn him for loving another man and showing that love physically when that is what he is? What has this man done that is wrong? The bible has been twisted, changed, altered so many times over so many years that who knows what the original text says.
  
  To be perfectly honest, Christianity itself is built upon the ideals of other religions all rolled into one but ignorance prevents people from seeing that. Being gay is NOT sin. There is NOTHING wrong with being gay. And your "god" has no authority or dominion in this world. If people believed in their God they wouldn't indoctrinate their children, they'd let them find God on their own.
  
  Sin...its all lies and hate.
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  kschmutzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So what would you consider a "sinful" act? Do you believe that there is no right or wrong? Do you believe there is a Creator? I'm curious.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is no "sin." This religion known as Christianity is no different from all the other religions it's stolen its content from. Right and wrong are purely subjective and that's evident from different cultures around the world.
  
  A creator? No. At least not in the sense that Religion describes it. I consider myself a spiritual person, but I will NEVER associate myself with a religion that's literally built on lies and facilitates so much hate.
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  sonfollowersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The bible has been twisted, changed, altered so many times over so many years that who knows what the original text says."
  
  There really is no evidence to back up this claim. We have thousands of ancient manuscripts for both the old and new testament. If it had changed, all we would have to do is go back to the source documents.
  
  People love to make absolute statements that they cannot possibly back up but they sound good. The world loves cool sound bites more than it loves truth and accuracy. Your arguments rest on top of a bunch of unproven assumptions and theories, but you treat them as fact. In truth, you have your faith and I have mine. To be clear, your faith is every bit as intolerant as you claim Christianity to be. This forum is full of examples of that intolerance (including your post). I guess intolerance is similar to pride. It's hard to see it in yourself.
  
  In short: "Pot... Meet Kettle."
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Source? Aren't you aware that the bible you read is too often incorrectly translated from Hebrew? How "eternity" originally meant "eon" but now it means forever? Sure punches a hole in the "burn in hell for all of eternity."
  Also, as far as your "ancient manuscripts" go, that's bullshit. The oldest and most accurate ancient biblical text are the Dead Sea scrolls, the manuscripts you claim we have are either not as ancient as you think or you pulled it out of your ass.
  
  Oh and I can back up my claims, hold onto your hat, your mind is about to be blown:
  
  Jesus turning water into wine? Strange, that ancient Greek God Dionysus did the same. The idea of the ancient Greek belief that their follows were filled with "Atay" or the "Spirit of God?" Weird...sounds a lot like the Holy Spirit.
  
  Romulus, legend of one of the founders of Rome was said to be the Son of God and born of a virgin. Gosh..that sounds like Jesus.
  
  Osiris, the Greek God of a Holy Trinity (Horus, Osiris, Isis) represented by Osiris being the physical manifestation of a God and dying to become Osiris. Osiris promised his believers eternal life in their Egyptian heaven. Damn..sounds like Jesus a lot?
  
  These are all pagan beliefs, there's tons of articles and research on it and i've only scratched the surface. The funny part? The Egyptians, Ancient Greeks and Romans weren't homophobic at all and homosexuality wasn't even SLIGHTLY a problem. So not only has your so-called "path to God" completely founded on bullshit, it's spreading hate as well.
  
  These are all pagan beliefs. Everyone with half a brain would research their own religion and not accept it blindly because everyone else does.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've made the same arguments that your making. Jesus Christ is a creation of man. The Romans wanted pagans to accept Christianity so they took stories from other gods and created a new deity. Anyone who studied roman and Greek mythology knows this. Even Christian holidays are stolen from paganism. Easter and Christmas were both pagan holidays celebrating the change of seasons. Of course try telling this to a Christian. It's like talking to a brick wall. They refuse to see it.
  Another intersting fact: virgin once meant young girl. The bible being translated and edited hundreds of times. Meanings of words change over time too. Again, no Christian will admit that.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, they won't. Instead they'll use their flawed, contradictory scriptures as excuses for the bigoted behavior and intolerance.
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UsmanSaadatposted 13 years ago
If they have got any chance of getting into the heaven,then where would the true followers go?.
They got to Repent before God and stop doing so if they really wanna go there.Every religion has got fundamental principles that we are obliged to follow anyway.We can't interpret the simple and straight understandings into confusing theories.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is ignorant. Being gay is not a choice. You are either born gay or straight. Do you even know any gay people? If you did you would know that. If god exists then he made people gay so for him not to allow them into heaven does not make sense.
  Quit using your religion as a means to justify your bigotry. It's very insulting.
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm..I just said what i thought was ok . No Offense Please .
  I didn't enforce religion either.God has not created anybody Gay.God has not created atomic bombs for us.I hope you remember,when you were born you didn't even know what your name is,what are you here for?and what is the world,what's male & female.You didn't know anything.It's all you learned from the surroundings with time.The way God created you is perfect for you.You do wrong and say "it's just how God has created me nd he wants me to be".Cmon' .What would say about the criminals or the killers?They can also easily say "Killing people or Distributing the drugs is the in-born talent in us,only we can do it,it's a Talent God has given to only few".Will you still say that it's their right to do what eva they want???
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLO
  
  God said to kill those who leave the Muslim faith, so - I suspect it will not have a problem with any of that - will it?
  
  C'mon - you are not authorized to speak for god - are ya?
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  )
  It's what every army in the world do.
  You can see the list of killed officers in Afghanishtan by CIA.Who were not willing to fight there anymore.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What does that have to do with the question I asked?
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I love how everyone against homosexuality always uses the example of killers or criminals. Homosexuals don't hurt anyone nor are they criminals!
  
  Homosexuality is simply the OPPOSITE of Heterosexuality. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you seriously comparing gays to killers and criminals? How does being gay hurt other people? Furthermore how in the world does a gay person learn from his or her surroundings when raised by heterosexuals in a religious environment? Your logic does not make sense.
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Alrite.
  What do you think..Then why is it forbidden in most of the religions?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fear. For those humans who aren't as strong as others, would have little chance at survival, if it wasn't for the laws and rules we put into place to protect all humans. All things we fear, we tend to make "Taboo" or unlawful actions.
  
  Religion (loosely speaking) was used as a way to create a society to live in close proximity with minimal strife. Those who write the "rules" get to add all the unlawful things that they don't like or fear. The "big three" religions held homosexual and unmarried sexual acts as sin, typically because these types of actions were consider part of pagan religious actions and they wanted to seperate themselves from this. Pagans at the time were considered somewhat uncivilize (broad sense of the term).
  
  We could get deep into this topics and have debated points pro and con from both sides. So this is as far into this as I am going to go. But a little research into the history (not just Sacred text history, but actual history) of the timeframe that the (big three) religions were created, will give a better understanding of the cultures and how people lived in those days.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that's correct. The origin of the supposed ban on homosexuality in Judaism is from Leviticus, in a group of verses that outline all the cult of Molekh practices that Jews were to not do. A bit part of Judaism is prohibition after prohibition of any of the practices that would overlap or merge Jewish practices with Canaanite pagan practices; they're silly reading them today, but the emphasis was at the time to not allow Jewish culture and values to disappear into the surrounding culture. Another example was a prohibition against wearing mixed linen-wool clothing...because Canaanites wore that type of clothing.
  
  A careful reading of the Torah in the original Hebrew makes it fairly clear that it was specifically a prohibition against temple cult prostitution, not general same-sex relations which were either not known at the time or just not dealt with in the Bible.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Agree completely. And this is even taught in Theology, Religion and Biblical Classes in most if not all Accredited Colleges.
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm ..
  What makes you believe that there's no GOD existing ?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A better question is what makes you think one actually exists?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have never said there is or isn't a God. And I won't. Those are my personal beliefs and I cannot back them up with proof, so I keep those to myself and in my opinion, have no bearing on these discussions or debates.
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  alite.
  but all this discussion has got a strong link with GOD too.Coz religion for you is something invented by people themselves not a pathway given by God for people to live accordingly.So it would be nice if you do share your views about God as well.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not here to convert. So there is no need for me to share my personal religious views. To each their own.
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  UsmanSaadatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As you wish man . All i can say is just see & judge the religion not their followers . No follower is following perfectly . Cheers!
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is not my place to judge anything. I may not agree with certain points of a religion or a person. I will point out hypocrisy, as I would hope that someone would point out if I was being that way as well. And I agree that we humans are not perfect, no matter how much some of us think we are.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  'A bit part of Judaism is prohibition after prohibition of any of the practices that would overlap or merge Jewish practices with Canaanite pagan practices; they're silly reading them today, but the emphasis was at the time to not allow Jewish culture and values to disappear into the surrounding culture'
  
  When you say 'a bit part', are you sure you are not missing the point of culture in general and Jewish culture in particular? The reproduction and transmission of cultural values, unaltered, is how the Jewish race has remained distinct over the millenia.
  
  Every other race, whether they are German, American or Saudi Arabian is dedicated to pretty much the same task.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not true. Jewish culture has changed a lot over the millennia. It continues to change. Most cultures have some tension between retention and absorption of surrounding cultures' cuisine, music, dance, literature, and other cultural products. But this is a bit different.
  
  Torah specifically forbids Jews from a lot of the (primarily religious) practices of the surrounding cultures in the context that their values were worse. It was beyond culture itself, and more about cultural values.
  
  And there's no such thing as the Jewish or American race (minor nit, but worth mentioning).
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not picking a fight here (lol) but...
  
  No such thing as the American or Jewish race?
  
  Before the ideas of Darwin gave (some) biologists the idea that they had something to say about human societies, race meant simply a distinct cultural group- French, Irish, Walloon, whatever.
  
  Some people stick with this meaning since it actually makes some sense.
  
  The currently popular conception of race is so meaningless and has such a tainted history (the justification of colonial expropriation)I reckon it should be shunned.
  
  As for the changes in culture you might see in a lifetime- they will only ever be superficial.
  
  Of course, every culture has liberal elements and these can make a culture seem elastic. It might even seem that large and significant changes are underway when in fact they are not- it's just those damn liberals being liberals (something they will pass on to their children).
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Being gay isn't a choice, nor is it wrong. Your religion and backwards beliefs are what's wrong.
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melodytsposted 13 years ago
Yes,everybody is entitled to enter to heaven. Whether you are straight or not as long as you are doing rightful things God will accept you.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i never can understand how christians get around the things in the bible, and actually believe they will go to Heaven. works...or doing rightful things...will not get anyone to Heaven. GOD makes it very clear that the only way to salvation is in believing and accepting JESUS CHRIST as HIS Son and your Saviour. once you have done that you must live in obedience to GOD. "works" come naturally to the true believer once they accept salvation...it is not works that save. just like being under the Law and being under Grace. being under Grace does not mean you no longer have to obey GOD...it means you are no longer subject to the penalty of the Law, which was death, because CHRIST paid that price for us.
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HouseSellerposted 13 years ago
Well technically nobody knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.. As much as am not a fan of homosexuality, I don't condemn people who are.. I think God loves everyone regardless of whether you're gay or not so no one has the right to decide who goes to hell or not, that depends on God himself...
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awareposted 13 years ago
silliness has no end, 800 and counting. sighs
ray
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zanaworldposted 13 years ago
They all will go to HELL. They defy nature.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Zana,
  
  Human nature defies nature.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What a hateful statement. If he'll exists and the bible is absolutely correct you will be there too. With all those gay people imagine that. Lol
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Typo- If HELL exists.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Amy,
  
  You should be able to "edit" a post once you've posted it. HP allows about 4 hours delay for editing or deleting posts. Something like that.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm writing from my iPhone, it wouldn't let me edit. Oh well....
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andyebarnesposted 13 years ago
Many will think my reply here to be controversial so I want to start with a disclaimer:
I in no way seek to imply, or believe, that any human 'race' is inferior or superior to any other. We are all equal, simply different. Just as Chimpanzees and Orang Utans are equal, but different.

YES. There are 'human races'. If you consider the question as objectively as possible for a moment, as if considering a different species, this becomes self-evident.
Indeed, to my mind, the label of 'races' is really a synonym for 'species'!
It is only because we can't countance the idea of using such a word as 'species' that we opt for the less inflammatory 'race'.

When we consider other primates, we readily call them species or sub-species, based on much smaller physical differences than are displayed in the rich variety of humans.

Simply where they live makes mountain gorillas distinct from lowland gorillas, for instance.

If we observed differences in skin colour, hair colour, stature, nose shape and size, vocalisation (language), running speed, diet etc etc in any other animal, we would label each a seperate species, or sub-species, depending on the level of difference.

It is only fear of being considered racist that has prevented us from applying the dame categorisation protocols to ourselves.

Andy
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are homo sapiens. And that is it. There are no races in the biological sense.
  
  The small variations in skin color and other characteristics can be built up to mean a lot by the human imagination (especially when fear, greed or the need for self delusion enter the equation) but there is only the one species.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's true. Racial differences are merely cosmetic, and they're becoming less and less relevant as people from different historical backgrounds intermarry, and as global migration continues to grow.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's an interesting theory but can different species mate? I'm not being sarcastic, it's just been yrs since I've taken a biology class. I'm just trying to understand.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or rather 'sub species'
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Different Species can be "forced" bred. (I.E Lion and Tigers to come up with the Liger, Horses and Donkeys) But just like Mules, they are sterile and can not reproduce.
  
  The ability for the offspring to reproduce as well is what makes for "same species"
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi doublescorpion,
  Thanks for clearing that up. My Caucasian brother and African American sister in law weren't forced together so I'm going to just dismiss the whole different race / different species theory.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They are the same species as in they children can reproduce as well. "Race" is just something men invented to segregate.
  
  By "forced" I mean to say, that donkeys and horses wouldn't normally copulate. Humans forced the breeding process between them.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Forced" is not the right word, DS. Perhaps "provided the opportunity" would be a better explanation. Hence the term "getting a piece of a**!"
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. I think you are correct kind Sir.
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