When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?

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Rabgixposted 13 years ago
If people just got an education or would bother to learn some actual history, they'd know that there are an innumerable amount of religions in history. Christianity is just current.

Willful ignorance or stupidity?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may see me as uneducated but I assure you I am not. Indeed there are many different religions in the world today. This has never been disputed. Christianity though is one that has been Historically substantiated by historians and archeologists and forensics as being Historically factual.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please stop lying at us Dave.
  
  Thank you.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Evolution Guy: you can call me what you will. But you cannot disprove Historical facts substantiated by Archeological and forensically proven examination and scrutiny.
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  workabroadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Mr. Mathews.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have the nerve to call me a liar yet you offer no proof to the contrary.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In the Bible it says,"Let every man be found a liar . . " you can guess the rest.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, I'll bet you've no clue about that statement "Let every man be found a liar...", however, it's about humility. Those who are caught in a lie or proven to be a liar must bare the humility that comes with the territory.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.
  
  The word 'true' is best presented as faithful [G227 true as in not concealing or hiding, steadfast; check the root of the word also, G2990]. If you read the other verses around this one you will see better the context about Gods faithfulness. If this is about humility it is not the thrust of the verse.
  
  for example:
  Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
  
  the word truth here is G225 a more direct meaning of truth - truth, truly, verity. There is a difference. And here the context is not humility either, but a refute of wrong intentions. That is to say, some think, so what if i sin because God can work with that as well... Along the lines of jonah and how he fled from what God called him to do and after the special fish incident, when jonah eventually got to ninevah, the people and king (Jonah chapter 3) repented and were saved.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
  
  How so?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  History has recorded it. History has verified it. Archeological teams have established it as truth. Forensics has backed up these findings. You can not disprove any of it.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, history has recorded the beginning of religions of the world.
  Actually, your statement is vague and misleading. History hasn't done anything about verifying it. History recorded the existence of the establishment of religious rulers.
  This in accurate also. They established only the existence, not that the written text is actual truth. So, again you're misleading.
  Forensics has backed up nothing except that the documents actually exist. So, again, you're misleading.
  BS! I just did. Simply because you were misleading in your statements.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Every field of science which has under-taken dis-proving the Bible has failed.
  
  Archeology has proven the existence of many places and kingdoms, towns etc. Many other fields have found the Bible to be accurate also. Including but not limited to agriculture and mining, Israel uses the bible as a guide for farming and other aspectds of their society all the time.
  
  Science has, to the point it can as of now, shown the Bible to be perfectly accurate in the things it says.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible's contents aren't false, at least not completely.
  
  I'm referring to the mystical side. You know, Jesus turning water into wine, rising up from the grave, etc.
  
  I mean considering that lots of religions have the same concepts, how come the Christian belief is so true?
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If someone told you a whole lot of things... and you checked out all you could of what they said... say 90%... and could not verify the rest... why would you just assume it was lies? If all the rest was true, why would you think who ever said it would just lie on the rest?
  
  Especially when you can verify some of the super-natural, prophecies, through history to have been fulfilled?
  
  You would be able to verify most, and some of what you cannot verify eventually comes to pass as true... so why would you think the rest to be a lie?
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's very dangerous thinking.
  
  I'm assuming you also hate homosexuals?
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What??? How did "homosexuals" get into this discussion?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because the other 5000 threads about homosexuality and religion weren't sufficient to discuss the issue. I could post a thread on pasta salad and it would end up being about gays, Christians, or both...
  
  Remember in Good Omens how every tape left in Crawley's car became a Queen tape after a fortnight.... yeah that's these forums.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True story, that!
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Worthless to even reply to that drivel.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OMG, the paradox of not replying by replying that you are not replying... somewhere a black hole just formed... and a puppy died.
  
  Nice going TM.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I fugured you would all like that.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Science has proven that Jesus walked on water? Or the entire world flood (an obvious impossibility)? That Egypt went totally dark for three days? That Lots wife transformed instantaneously into salt? That a chariot carried a prophet to heaven? That the sea split to allow several thousand to walk on dry land and then came back together to drown the followers?
  
  The best that science could possibly do is to say that these stories violate natural laws and could not happen. It certainly could not verify them.
  
  As far as disproving, it is virtually impossible to disprove what didn't happen unless you also accept that impossible things are...well...impossible. Believers won't do that.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I say that science proved Christ walked on water?
  
  Where did I state any of the examples you have named as something science has proved?
  
  Those are all your examples... not mine.
  
  So?... I am really not sure what your point was other than to rant.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually TMMason, this statement is what Wilderness was referring to.
  This isn't in dispute, according to what Dave Mathews stated, because they are not associated. Facts and Truth are two separate things.
  And, many areas have said it's junk/garbage and impossible in many aspects.
  Really? Oh course they did, because the first five books are Judaism and NOT Christianity. Christianity STOLE them.
  Untrue. It's blanket for all things in the book and many of the things in the book cannot be proven. So, who is spinning BS now?
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thousands of things in the Bible have been proved or shown to be true or fact... you agreed. Sure they are cities towns people, occurances, events etc... but it is the incidentals and their substantiation that helps to support the stories and prove the Bible. Even people science and secular scholars said never could have existed have been shown to indeed have existed.
  
  So what is your issue? the super-natural aspects, right?
  
  Prophecies have been fulfilled... we have records from before and after to show such.
  
  You do not believe someone could talk to God? I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt God is active in this world and always has been.
  
  As to wilderness and the chariot of fire that took Elijah to the heavens. Well I am sure that God has tech way cooler and way wayyyyyy more advanced than anything you lil science masters have even thought of.
  
  So do I believe a fiery craft could have taken Elijah to the heavens.... yes.
  
  I am sure God's science and tech makes you alls look like childs play.
  
  But that is why they call it faith isn't it? I do not need every last thing proved to me... I see the facts that clearly show the honesty of the book and I accept that.
  
  If you do not, that is your own decision.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some occurrences/events, not all of them.
  This is not in dispute.
  Super-natural aspects? I'm not disputing them, for I already know how they occurred, but am stating that Science cannot.
  ALL prophecies are self-filling anyways and actually irrelevant. Which you will no doubt claim it's not.
  It's already been concluded that people are unable to talk to a god that doesn't exist. The concept "god" is steeped in mysticism. Mysticism isn't real. Not to mention, further examination of the time during God-Kings, Mystics, Oracles and the such, were liars, cheaters, manipulators and it's unfortunate that many of these people actually were part of the ruling class. So please....
  There's nothing you can tell me about the time Jesus walked the Earth. I've done my research, in all areas of it.
  I don't doubt your belief. I doubt the irrationality of your thinking straight.
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  Fatigmonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing anyone can tell you because you've done your research? I really feel sorry for you, that you are really that all knowing. You have nothing left to learn. Life must be very dull for you.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This above statement is absurd. You do realize that. The research is with regards to this pathetic religion junk you pass off as real.
  Only an arrogant person would say what you said above. No one is all knowing, but your statement makes a claim that I know all, even when I've never said it myself.
  Another arrogant statement. There's always something to learn, however, with regards to this particular topic, there's only so much to learn about anyways. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.
  My life isn't dull or even boring. But, I wouldn't expect an arrogant individual like your statements above show that you are, to understand.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TMMason: Thankyou for backing up my points. History,Geology,Archeology, forensics,have all worked together in concert to establish as best as possible the truth. There will always be those who will doubt and be skeptical of the truth.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You need to learn the difference between truth and facts.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have either of you read anything apart from the bible in the last 10 years?
  
  This sounds like a conversation between two dinosaurs.
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  Jean Bakulaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, there are many other belief systems. The Old Testament has many laws that were fair, and also healthly. Sick people were quarantined. If a person killed another by accident they lived in a town to atone for the manslaughter for a period. If a woman was widowed, her brothers in law had to help feed her and raise any childlren. Of course, woman had no rights. It seems people were supposed to eat only fruits and veggies, but later were allowed meat. There were specific festival times. But the Israelites walked around essentially a 10 mile stretch of land for 40 yrs. I had a Jewish friend who said the Red Sea has low tides at daily periods so it can be walked across.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Source?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  History, Archeology, Forensic Sciences,
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  jch47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  something cool
  Can you feel the wind as it blows can you hear the wind as it blows?but the Question is can you see the wind no only if it blows.I am with you Dave it has been proven and will remain to be proven look into the red sea what is there, parts of chariots,wheels from the chariots and I would bet that if they would let us see the ark on top of the mountain in Turkey where it sits you couldnt disproved Noah
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  passingthewordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if this is a real pic of you, you are beautiful. wow!
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  MissJamieDposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen to that:)
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  nightwork4posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  sorry dave but not once has it been proven factual. not once so if you are going to comment at least use facts, pardon the pun.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  didnt I see you at last Sunday's church picnic??
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  Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no!
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have a master's degree in World History and a minor in World Religion, also I am a Christian. Please enlighten me.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  why not just read his Hubs and get his view point from there??
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Um, because he doesn't have any hubs.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's working on them.. just waiting for some divine inspiration
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol nice...
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not your professor in either subject therefor I suggest you look it up yourself.
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was actually speaking to Rabgix not you Dave.
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  cooldadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @rabgix: This really isn't the best formulated question.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, actually, one hates to nit-pick, but Christianity as the practice of a belief cannot be all lies. The Bible could be all lies, but Christianity is something that people DO and can't then not be true. People are Christian. Getwhatimean?
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First off believing in God isn't stupid or ignorant. Just because I cant physically see God doesn't mean he isn't there. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing. Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, but there is no need for name calling. The bible in my mind makes more since then believing we came from monkey's. If we evolved from monkey's then why are there still monkey's?
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is a common misconception and if it was this simple to debunk Evolution then the idea wouldn't even exist.
  
  Primates share a common ancestor with humans. Not that we directly evolved from them.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just because we share traits doesn't mean there is a missing link and we magically evolved from a monkey to a human. If that was the case then all babies would start off as monkey's then evolve to humans later on. Also why haven't the monkey's alive now ever evolved. The problems is people always have to explain stuff with science but the human may not understand everything because lets face we weren't alive back then and not everything can be proven true without being there.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People will always believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
  
  You will too, soon enough...
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  Shinkickerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. Astrological worship of the ancients transformed into man-made religion.
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter how much proof is presented. If people don't want to believe, they won't. Whatever you believe or don't believe, Jesus was and is intriguing. He was either a liar, completely deranged, thoroughly evil, or the Son of God. A great teacher, philosopher, guru, or any of the other stupid labels cannot and will not fit.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try didn't exist
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That fits.
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK. That's a good way of silencing 5000 plus documents from the first and second century that say otherwise. It's also a good way to live without any accountability.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you not hold yourself accountable?
  
  Why must YOU be accountable to anyone, but yourself?
  
  Do you not punish yourself for your actions which harm others?
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some do and some don't. I guess Hitler's accountability structure led him to kill 3,000,000 Jews.
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He liked it, too.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hitler was a madman. An ignorant jacka$$.
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't we all madmen or potential madmen when left to our own accountability structures? Could there be a place for the ten commandments, an accountability structure not prone to change when we feel like it? Face it! We will lie, steal, commit adultery when it's in our best interest. We hate God because we love sin.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not if one is honest with self.
  Why would it need to exist?
  This is what you would do? I don't do any of those things. Why not? It's not in my best interests. Or do you not understand that?
  What god?
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  The Minstrelposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are a rarity or a deluded man to think that you couldn't compromise on some level of social morality that would impact others. Man's accountability system has proven to be unreliable and unpredictable. Yes, I know right and wrong too, but it's good to have state/fed laws and moral laws to keep me and others from moving into the wild card realm. Again, we write God off because we love our best interests first.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Minstrel- read my hub on True Morals- Morality Defined- Human Morals and then come back and tell me, I have no understanding or am deluded.
  
  Secondly, I have another hub called "Individual Rights Versus General Morality", see how that points out the flaw in your "god's will", using common sense.
  Actually, Humankind has never actually been told the truth about their life. All that's out there is distortion and misinformation, which people believe.
  My conscience does that. So why would there be a need for another sort of authority, providing I don't sway from my honesty with myself?
  That statement is "ego". It speaks of ego more than it does anything else. You want to believe in a higher power, then do so. But, do not under any circumstance think that just because there is a higher power, that it is also a higher authority when it comes to living life. Because, then you would only be fooling yourself.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  1st and 2nd century, not from the time of Jesus. A little history won't harm you.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Think you would find Minstrel was referring to documents created by other observers from that time, but hey they would be inconvenient and probably planted by the giant religious conspiracy that you guys all think happened.
  
  Do none of you secularists ever stop to think that for one man's name to even be remembered after 2,000 years is unusual, but to be honoured and worshipped as well as having many millions of people living by His ethos, kind of puts coincidence and conspiracy out of the window.
  
  Just a thought.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The name of Vishnu, Buddha, Rama and Krishna are remembered by Chinese and Indians after 2000 to 3000 years. Zeus is remembered by everybody who has ever read Homer. Does that mean, all that gods are real?
  Jesus was a common name of that time, and there were many preacher, revolutionary Jesuses too, some where hanged. There were other teachers like the teacher of essenes(who was killed/crucified(the only one who is crucified) by macabee king, not Romans) and the Jesus son of Joseph is a myth created by a mixture of all these along with Roman and Greek legends.
  Why he is still remembered? Because his sect is the sect that managed to grab power.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amazing, you really believe that 'we' Christians have conspired to 'hold power' for 50+ generations!
  
  Obviously you have never tried to organise the Church Fete or Christmas Party for the Homeless!
  
  Yes I agree that the RCC has wielded much power over the centuries, but that hold was broken 500 years ago, and in any case God has always had His remnant hidden (as He does today) to carry the torch of the testimony, of the Holy Spirit.
  
  That's why Christ has reigned supreme, because God gave all power and authority to Him, and the Holy Spirit has been here constantly to stay the hand of the enemy.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have answered for yourself.
  
  There were always fools, idiots,insecure and immature and fanatics to carry the torch. And the Abrahamic religions always tried to stifle thought and encourage fanaticism.
  
  You forgot the whirlwind- Islam that threatened christianity and is still threatening it. You also forgot the scourge of god, Timur.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  By the way there are no documents to refer to. The earliest one was around 70CE by Josephus who has not seen Jesus. That part was later added by some Christian scribe, if you look carefully.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Negated by your next statement:
  
  So anybody under 30 years of age, writing about John Lennon or Winston Churchill would be a liar and we could suppose that those men never existed?
  
  ...and you did that, did you? or are you simply quoting more secularist hearsay?
  
  any proof about these statements, or are we expected to accept them becasue YOu say them?
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Anybody who has not seen or researched about, if writing about Churchill, we call it fiction. If he manage to add some facts we call it historical fiction, Yes historical,but still fiction. There are writings by Churchill, people who has seen Churchill written about him, while there is no writing of jesus, or writing by people who has seen jesus. There were historians like Philo, who lived during the supposed time of jesus, in Judea and had jotted down everything happened there, but has never seen or heard about a jesus. The natural events that occurred during jesus's death was also not seen by anybody who is of repute.The town of Nacereth was built only after 1st centuary, but jesus was supposed to be from nazereth.
  
  If you really want a comparison, instead of Churchill, you should have said Julius Caesar, who was before Jesus.
  
  You can read for yourself, Antiquities, it is available for download in gutenberg.org. Anyway I'll quote the only two reference to jesus.
  
  "Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
  The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3
  
  "Festus was now dead, and Albinus was put upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, (or some of his companions). And when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned."
  The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 20, Chapter 9
  
  About the latter first, Jesus who was called christ..so he must be the christ, but if you care to read on, the Jesus is jesus son of Damneus, who was made high priest, not jesus son of joseph who was crucified.
  Now about the former, for a jew who believed jesus as christ, josephus remained a jew till his death. For such an important figure in jewish history, josephus who was a jewish historian could find only one paragraph, surprising! Christians were called christians only after the time of death of josephus, the one who added in obviously didn't know about it. Again this passages were not noted by christian historians before 340CE. The first person who noted it was Eusebius, a self confessed liar for Jesus, most probably the same person who added this minor detail.
  
  I don't want to go into further details, as I'm bored with repeating all these again and again, information at anybody's disposal if they care. I also understand, most human beings are just immature, without a sky daddy, afraid to live.As somebody said, if there is no god humans will invent one for there survival. I have no problem in you holding to any of the myths you find interesting, but don't put it as absolute truths and insult another's intelligence.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I own a copy of this book
  Book 20 chapter 9
  This passage directly refers to jesus christs, brother james, who was stoned to death. Jesus Christ was never made high priest by anybody. It was not his interest, nor did he covet it. So the jesus said to be high priest is another jesus as it was a common name, because, obviously, there are two distinct jesus named here, jesus the brother of james, (our christ) and jesus the son of damneus.
  
  Since you failed to go into detail about book 18 chapter 3, suffice it to say, that as a jewish historian, the OT would have been treated with more diligence as it was the confirmed word and actions of God, which Josephus does indeed devote 80% of the Antiquities too covering, from genesis upward and not much about a disputed christ, who did wonderful works - miracles - yet even the talmud talks badly about.
  Christ as a miracle worker, wise man and crucified are verified by Josephus and thankyou for pointing that out, but you needed to read more closely the chapter you hold in dispute.
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  2besureposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The most pathetic of all men, are those who do not believe there is something greater than themselves.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Love it.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen, love it!
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  TJenkins602posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What I find the most amazing is how your question is worded about Christianity being all lies. I thought Atheist didn't believe in God or Satan period and if that's the case wouldn't all religions be considered a lie? I am a christian and I am happy with that but if you are not then that is your choice. I have friends who are Buddhists, 7th day Adventist and don't believe in God at all and I don't force my beliefs on them and they don't force theirs on me. We are humans and we are not perfect and do not have the right to judge other people. I don't believe in evolution pertaining to monkeys but yes each generation has changed in some way because of all the diseases and demographics that we are exposed to. I do believe in the big band theory but I think my God caused it. I think everybody in general need to quit arguing over who is right or wrong and let people make there own choice.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Untrue. Judging others happens whether or not, you want it to happen. You will always view/perceive someone's action and think based on what you either believe or gain via wisdom, whether their actions were good or bad. It cannot be helped. Other than that, as an American and most other countries- Law enforcement requires a jury by peers. Which means, you are put into a position to place judgment.
  Really? Why don't you believe another human being from another Universe could have caused it? It's just as plausible.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just as you are judging me now, correct. I don't want to believe "another human being from another Universe could have caused it" as you put it because I believe what the bible says. Furthermore that is what my parents taught me and in my brain the bible makes the most sense. What we need to remind ourselves is that when we point a finger at someone else we have three pointing back at us.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Judging you? No. I'm simply pointing out the flawed thinking you presented.
  Okay, that's fine. No problem. Keep yourself limited in thinking.
  Actually, that would be indoctrination talking. The Bible actually doesn't make sense to any rational individual who has any common sense.
  Untrue. Honesty and Dishonesty with self is what other see. And, that's all they see. Pointing a finger at someone who is being dishonest with themselves is just that, pointing out the dishonesty. Any idiot pointing back to the person who is pointing it out? without actually paying attention, is just ignorant.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again your are chastising me for having different beliefs then you. I feel my beliefs are the truth and you feel they are not. I have my opinion and you have yours and that is the way it will always be.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bad perception on your part. Boy are you negative. I'm of the understanding of where that comes from....but the bigger question is...do you?
  Truth is universally recognize when spoken. And, you're not speaking truth. But, it does show how little you understand of your own life.
  WOW! If that wasn't your ego talking then I don't know what it was. Good for you. You haven't learned how to see beyond yourself. I wrote a hub or two that might help. However, since you're not up for learning, then you'll just dismiss them. And again, the question is why? Do you know? Probably not, but I do.
  
  Just in case- I'm going to leave you with the two hubs(titles only), if you want to learn something new about yourself.
  
  5 Steps To Build Character
  The Human Ego and How To See Past It
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well if defending my beliefs is considered having an Ego then I have it 100% and I'm proud of it. Furthermore there is nothing you can do or say that will change my beliefs period!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not trying to change your beliefs. I'm trying to get you to learn something new? Duh! Again, another badly perceived notion on your account. Do you see what your ego does? Do you recognize when it has control? That's my point.
  
  Your beliefs are irrelevant.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You talk about my ego, when you are trying to teach me something new. I think you need to practice what you preach about recognizing your own ego. I learn something new about life every day since I am a mother of 3, 2 of which have special needs. Plus my husband, sister and I are all disabled Marines which can be a daily struggle. I can read other peoples philosophies and choose not to agree with them like I am choosing not to with yours.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I talked about your ego. From the words you used, is obvious. I'm only pointing it out.
  I recognized mine a long time ago and learn how to see past it, which is why I directed you to the hub I wrote about it. You seem to imply that my ego is a problem, but believe it's not. My ego has been in check for years, through practice, which you claim I need to do.
  Okay. It's good that you learn something new everyday. It's important to learn all you can, which was why I was offering those hubs.
  I'm sure you can read other people's philosophies and even choose to agree with them. However, if you choose to not agree with something that is purely rational, then it only means that your actions turn to chosen ignorance. If you put aside and disagree with rational, then it means you're purposely acting irrational. Thus, you are a detriment to yourself and others. Just a thought.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity is a relationship with God thru Jesus, the Son of God. Born again is a real experience. It's strange that each of the billions of persons over time has witnessed virtually the same experience.
  
  Nonbelievers see only the con; believers see the pro's only. It works; it is real, liken unto falling in love.
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  marymootooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In the nicest way possible ' dream steeler'
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  Pedroemoseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So the mere fact that there are many beliefs is enough to make a belief someone holds stupid or willfully ignorant?
  
  Do you really believe that?
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, not at all, I would examine their claims, ask to meet with them when they met with their Flying Spaghetti Monster and see for myself if they had the truth, then if they did, I would put aside my pride and join their fellowship of Flying Spaghetti Monster believers.
  
  But if I did not believe that had found the truth, then I would leave them alone to worship whoever they wanted, assuming they decided not to join me worshipping God and Christ, and get on with my own life, following my own beliefs.
  
  What I would NOT do is follow them like a stalker into Flying Spaghetti Monster forums to try and harass them by calling then and their Flying Spaghetti Monster inane names and making stupid comments.
  
  That is what I would think as being stupid and willfully ignorant.
  
  See the difference?
  
  So why are YOU here?
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A simple snag there, When you leave such people to their idiot-ism, a 9/11 happens!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So let then go haunt Islamic forums and try their nonsense with the Muslims..
  
  Oh I forgot, we all need to be nice around Muslims don't we, because of that 9/11 stuff that they tend to do.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who told I am nice to Muslims? I'm never nice to anybody who wear their religion on their sleeves. Why should I be, these are the people who make world a dangerous place to live!!
  
  Will it make a difference, if it is a christian who is flaunting nonsense and not a muslim or Vice versa? A nonsense is a nonsense, no matter how many believe it. An irrational or illogical arguement is still that, no matter how many people, with weapons, support it.
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I meant Flaunting their religion. Religion is a personal business and people who keep it to themselves are not the one I mentioned.
  The question is not about good or bad. Religion, whichever it is, stem from "willful ignorance" or irrationality. As long as people perpetuate irrationality, we will get 9/11, as there is nothing like degrees of irrationality. Either it is rational or it is not.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If religion is a 'personal thing' why the heck are you spending so much time trying to hassle folk who want to discuss their 'personal' religion on a forum designed specifically for that purpose?
  
  What on earth is it to you, and who gave you ANY right to tell we believers what we should be believing?
  
  In other words.... who rattled your cage?
  
  If you dislike the forum conversation, don't come here, very simple and actually more polite than haunting conversations we have no desire to have you haunting.
  
  Find something else not to believe in.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you put it on a public forum, how will it be "personal"? When you post something publicly, you should be willing to see people who contradict it with reason.
  
  You can believe in anything you want, I don't give a ** about it. You can believe earth is flat, or FSM are the creators of everythingthing... But if you are posting in a public form, be willing to be criticized. I mentioned already, nonsense is something I don't like and when people deliberately sprout nonsense, naturally I'll reply. If you can, counteract me with reason, telling me where my reasoning is faulty, not what is written in an ancient barbaric book.
  
  Religion, whichever it is, stem from "willful ignorance" or irrationality. As long as people perpetuate irrationality, we will get 9/11, as there is nothing like degrees of irrationality. Either it is rational or it is not. As long as there are 9/11s, me nor my dear ones will not be safe.
  
  What do you believe in, actually?
  You believe your parents and priests and their assertion that a book called bible is the only truth. You then believe Bible too. From all these three you came to the conclusion that there is something called "god" without even bothering to think what this thing is and started to twist whatever comes in your way to suit what you believe and, anything or anybody that try to show you reason, you started to take as "devil".
  You are just satisfying your emotional need to have a parent, and I'm not against it. Rather my 12 years in medicine showed me, some people really need it. I object when you say everybody, especially me, need to have it and your particular version is the one to be adopted.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
  
  I do not visit the RELIGIOUS forums to debate with Atheists, I actually come here to discuss Christ with other believers, if I want to debate with secularists, I will seek you out in the Atheists forums.
  
  Listen, I have no interest in debating anything with you, you have your opinion, enjoy it whist you may, and as stated, this is the RELIGIOUS forum, not a debating club.
  
  Rationality is your life, I have no concern, I have a God who cares for and protects me and my family from danger, so please do not try to place your concerns upon me, if you worry about how your world is shaping up, debate it with your fellow travellers in the Atheist forum (nobody ever tells me, is there an atheist forum?)
  
  Obviously you have never read my hubs, or you would know that my parents never gave me much religious inspiration, they were strictly token members of the Church of England and only ever entered a church for births, marriages and deaths, hatch, match and dispatch as those people are referred to in church terms.
  
  I stopped Sunday School aged 8 when I found it boring, and was a gang member by age 13, left school at 15 and worked at being rich, (with actually zero moral concerns whatsoever)was a rational humanist until I was 42, then came to faith in Christ.
  
  Believe me I do not fit into your preconceptions, and you speak out of turn.
  
  I am not bothered if you object, that is your prerogative, object away, just question why you waste your (only?)life objecting to people who have no concern about your objections and who will ignore your 'rationality' because they DO have knowledge of God and His Holy Spirit and therefore know that what you preach is personal to you and irrelevant to them.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In case you have not noticed it, this is the Religion and Philosophy forum and atheism and agnosticism is a subforum. And if you missed it, this forum topic is "When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?" and NOT why we christians should lie about our religion, so it is YOU who is in the wrong forum, not me!
  
  Its immaterial from where your got it, you are just satisfying your psychological need for a parent(Em! I would say GROW UP, well, that is your prerogative). You just turned to the one you were taught, otherwise why didn't you fall on Krishna or Amenhotep or even Allah?
  
  Of course you and your lot will object. The persons who flew planes into buildings objected, the gunman in Norway objected, why should you be any different? They were all filled with holy ghost or s##t whatever!!
  
  Rationality??? Only with religion you suspend your rationality aqua, otherwise you would be in mental asylum!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try sitting in a quiet room, if that does not work, see a Doctor.
  
  You really need to rest some.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then throw than worthless bible into fire and think for yourself, if you are not afraid (But I don't think you'll ever mature, what you have not attained all these years, it'll be difficult with the rest. You'll be always afraid to face the world, alone)
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have been thinking for myself since I was 11 years old, and believe me I am certainly not afraid of anything, why should I be, there is nothing to fear and besides God did not give us a spirit of fear, and I refuse to allow the enemy to put fear on my shoulders.
  
  I sincerely hope that I never 'mature' having made it to sixty years of age without 'growing up', for I see old men of 40 and 50 all around me trying to be so very serious, and imagining that they have great knowledge, relying on their 'rational' world to support them, and failing miserably.
  
  My (precious) bible tells me to come to God like a child, and I hope to always be just that, a child of God.
  
  You speak through the opposite end of your body from your head, I have been contentedly 'facing the world' for 50 years now, in short, you really do need a rest, or a doctor, for you are delusional and wish to spread your delusions.
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice self portrait aqua!
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I quote Earnest: "Nice self portrait aqua!"
  
  Did your sky daddy teach you that???
  
  You know what a delusion is???
  
  Don't worry, you are just that, a child.
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I leave being mature to young folk who need to impress their friends, as for me, I have lived long enough to know that humour is worth a thousand words.
  
  Nobody told me I needed to take you guys seriously, sorry, is that an obligation?
  
  Have a nice day!
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, this session around I was just fed up of the normal cabal of atheists and their running chums disturbing things, so I decided to play by your rules for a while and just disrupt your teams disruption.
  
  I have not seen any reasonableness in the discussion, but then who could expect that in a thread that starts:
  
  When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?
  
  Please tell me why I should facilitate your desires to deny Christ?
  
  You (and your gang) have your opinions and that's fine, you will never understand what a believer does, and we choose to reject what you believe in like fashion.
  
  So why 'debate' anything?
  
  I did all my debate and research into what you believe from 1961 until 1992, after that I had my answers, not yours.
  
  When you have lived life and studied 'Religion and Philosophy' for over 30 years, give me a call, however don't expect a reply, as I doubt this world has long enough to matter making those sort of plans.
  
  May I suggest you actually read one of my hubs and decide whether I am 'Family Guy' (never watched it, so no idea who he is)a good start would be 'What is Islam Afraid of" or 'Don't expect me to be perfect'
  
  I don't do student common room bullcrap sessions anymore.
  
  Pop off to an atheist website and enjoy your intellectual superiority for as long as you want and can.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  THAT is a delusion.(sorry, you knew it, I thought you didn't!! em! On second thoughts you HAVE it.)
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  as I hear teenagers say... now what does that mean?
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In simple terms, you have delusion.
  You were the first person to use that word, so look it up!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK, looked it up, is this what you meant?
  
  2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
  Amplified Bible (AMP)
  And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved.
  
  Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false,
  
  In order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.
  
  Yep, that must be it....
  
  But I guess it may have been this you were referring to:
  
  Ephesians 4:21-23
  Amplified Bible (AMP)
  Assuming that you have really heard Him and been taught by Him, as [all] Truth is in Jesus [embodied and personified in Him],
  
  Strip yourselves of your former nature [put off and discard your old unrenewed self] which characterized your previous manner of life and becomes corrupt through lusts and desires that spring from delusion;
  
  And be constantly renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh mental and spiritual attitude]....
  
  Have fun.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Instead of looking in a crap, you should have looked for that, where you could get it.
  In simple words a delusion is a belief kept, though there is no reason to keep that belief. (an irrational belief,more simply).
  Absence of a belief is not delusion, it is having one. And delusion is a disorder, a part of schizophrenia and other psychiatric diseases!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But I have every reason to keep my belief, and none to explain it to you.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly, that is what all psychotics say....
  And I've seen too many to try to dissent.
  adiós
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I accept that English is a second language to you, so I will explain that you mentioned 9/11, and event that is forever linked with MUSLIM terrorists, hence my reference to Muslims, I cannot find any references to Christian terrorists, or I could agree that both sides are dangerous.
  
  As it stands, I care not how you respond to people, just so long as you don't try to silence free speech.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't mention about my language, it was peperuhi
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
  
  Now shall we mention the dark ages, the crusades....?
  
  Now if active terrorism is not there, the only reason is more and more people are skeptical about the beliefs and are not willing to blindly obey their priests after the dark ages...still George Bush claimed it was god who asked him to invade Iraq(http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 09925.html)
  
  I don't try to silence free speech as long as it does not infringe my safety. I never tell anybody "I don't believe in god" nor argue with anyone until they come to me with their nonsense...or only if I see people trying to perpetuate their nonsense in public forums
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Balderdash, the only reason you cannot find it is that it's not there to find, there is no denomination of Christians who support violence, and you are in no danger from Christians.
  
  You can pester folk in RELIGIOUS forums if that gets you off,by all means waste your time, just don't expect that you will ever get anywhere.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really do not know or are you deliberately shutting your eyes? Who told you it is not there? It is minimal in Europe and may be America, the rest of the world is not free from that.
  Tell those to Giordano Bruno or numerous scientists or common people who were burned, killed or tortured by the church/inquisidars over centuries(oh! it was called persecution now and witch killing earlier), or the 82 killed in Norway recently(http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.s … at_92.html
  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world … wanted=all)
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Care to enlighten we folk where in 'the rest of the world' Christians have been ordered by the church to attack non believers or other religionists in (say) the last 50 years?
  
  Actually it's a oxymoron, for Christ forbade violence against His opposer's, so by default anyone who uses violence against other people is not obeying Christ, and therefore cannot call themselves a 'Christian', indeed, the whole aspect of whether there are anybody called Christians is debatable, which is why I prefer 'believers' or disciples'.
  
  And the actions of the RCC 400 years ago has just what relevance on this subject, or represents a threat to your life, that last sentence should have read 'over four centuries ago' but I guess it would have lost it's dramatic effect then.
  
  Now let me think, was that a lone gunman who obviously had no idea that Christ forbade him to kill people, or was that assassin sent by his local church.
  
  Nobody can protect you from lone madmen with agendas (except God, if He chooses to) and anyway why are you concerned, you (presumably) believe in nihilism and therefore once you are snuffed out, you have nothing to worry about, so OK maybe the last five minutes may be bad, but hey! you have spent all this fun time in the forums beating your head against a brick wall, that must make life worthwhile!
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In the last 50 years?? You are not talking about George Bush, who rained cluster bombs and phosphorous bombs on innocent civilians and children, because GOD TOLD HIM TO ATTACK IRAQ. Now a days church won't ask because if they ask people will tell them to go to hell....unlike the middle ages when people were deeply religious..
  
  They based it on bible and given a chance they would repeat the same.
  
  Nothing to worry about? You mean the christian and muslim fanatics suddenly turned good??? You can shut your eyes as much as you like.. that won't change reality.
  Brick wall??? That I very well understand. If you people open your minds and think freely you will no longer sprout this nonsense..but that is a remote possibility, isn't it? Psychological fear and immaturity always override reason, it always did and always will...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think most non believers are the same.
  When was the last time you saw a non believer outside the supermarket with a loud hailer trying to convert the masses?
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nor does it stop there. We must soon teach the FSM in our schools as factual, we must have children praying to him and must put his icons on each piece of public land. We must open public events with another prayer to the great FSM.
  
  We must modify our laws and create new ones that support what the FSM demands of his followers and always do whatever we can to make other people accept that the FSM is the only true God.
  
  That snag isn't so simple.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But CNN just released information that 86% of Americans WANT God to be in their lives, so I guess those who object should realise that there is no credible reason why 14% should dictate to the 86% what they should do.
  
  Of course the 14% could just ignore what they found distasteful, or I guess if they REALLY hated what the vast majority of people wanted, they could move somewhere god will not be found....
  
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, the 14 don't typically dictate to the 86. Rather, the 86 stands on the lower jaw of the 14, pries upward on the upper jaw and begins shoveling s**t. It really is kind of hard to ignore it when that happens.
  
  What is it about religion that simple requires that everyone in sight believe and follow the orders of the fake God? When Christians learn, understand and accept that their God is no better or different than the FSM they will be much better people to deal with. Until then the non-believers will just to continue to resist the insane requirements of the Christian God that is continually forced onto them.
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I was not replying to you, nor has anything to do with your comment, I was replying Aqua.
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  peperuhiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  No offence
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  Pedroemoseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, he really believes it for some reason; in your example, he isn't faking. I would honestly want to know why. Incidentally, I think turning Governmentalized Christianity is the most dangerous type of Christianity--Christianity tends to thrive best under persecution.
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  passingthewordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  how current is Christianity?
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  SanXuaryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow this odd comment got all this attention. There must be a God because so many people are trying to convince you to look a little deeper.
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  BobMongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad I don't live next door to you.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bob, you are deprive a lot.
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  ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If there are "an innumerable amount", when would one ever finish studying all of them to form a valid conclusion?
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Disturbiaposted 13 years ago
Does this mean there is no Santa Clause either?
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Disturbia. Many so called Christians signed into Santa Clause and the troubles came.
  Devil is father of lies and he is good one, I mean liar.
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daskittlez69posted 13 years ago
It depends on what you are trying to prove Cags. Anthropologists and Archaeologists have proven that events in the Bible did occur. This is not saying that Christianity is not the only religion to believe in by any means. It is a Abrahamic religion, but so is Judaism and Islam. So no, no one can say that you better be a Christian or you are going to hell. But we can prove that certain events in the Bible did in fact happen.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not disputing that some events did place. But, just because some events were actually written down, doesn't mean "everything" in it is truth.
  
  I'm of the understanding that "facts" and "truth" are two separate things.
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  daskittlez69posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh I am sorry. I thought that "truth" only came from the winning side
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No truth doesn't come from only the winning side, however, much of "history" is written in that manner.
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  cooldadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm getting confused, the earth is still flat, right?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Cooldad, it could be to some people.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No; it is an inverted cone, with a hole at the bottom that leads to heaven. Have you never read Dante?
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  Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hell can already be experienced here. It all depends on one's way of life. Hell is the absence of God. Can you imagine if one has no lifeline to depend on because that's what he has chosen in life, to be self-centered, to be arrogant, to be full of pride, to be better than all the rest, perfect, yet... is anybody ever perfect? But the truth in the words of God and in Christ Jesus blows me, as I am humbled by his words, and have seen the light. Anything that veers one away from God and from Jesus denies Christ, and so denies God, and it will be God who will avenge, and will repay. I can see that happening around us, and our eyes cannot deceive us.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And what about interpretation of events. There may be facts, but they can be interpreted in different ways. Glass half empty, half full situations.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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seamistposted 13 years ago
I don't understand why people bicker so much about whether the bible and Christianity is true or false. Afterall, Christianity is based on faith, and one of the definitions of faith by the bible is "...the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." It will probably always remain unproven until Christ either comes back or doesn't, but in the meanwhile, what difference does it make as long as it gives people hope and comfort? Sometimes, I have a hard time believing too, but when I read about miraculous healings and near death experiences, I believe there at least needs to be an element of truth.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Faith has not substance, but it is something that is one factor in driving hope. The secondary - "the evidence of things not seen" is impossible. Evidence is seen, otherwise it's unknown.
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  The Blagsmithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe the use of 'seen' is not a good use here, Cagsil. It conjures up a visual sense and there is evidence that can be provided from things that are not visual - such as some gases.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  dungeonraiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity, and many other faiths, are linked together. I don't see that any of them are 'lying'...They may have recorded events differently and responded to different messengers from God, but they are very similar (in historical comparison). For instance, they verify each other at times.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
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awareposted 13 years ago
Hopeful
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
"When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?"

Tell me lies! Tell me sweet little lies! Tell me! Tell me! Tell! So ho... whatever cindi lauper said...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Para,
  
  It wasn't cindy lauper....that song comes from Fleetwood Mac.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czR2bHg_4c8
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was what I got buried with when I researched it! But I KNOW it was a female voice that sang it to me on the CD 10+ years ago! And I am 99% sure it was Cind* Lauper.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cindy's song was called "lies" and is a different song to the one by Fleetwood Mac.
  
  http://lyrics.filestube.com/t/tell+me+lies+lyrics
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Para,
  
  In Fleetwood Mac, it was Stevie Knicks who sang the song.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And Stevie is a girl! Had to have been.
  
  If I could turn the page
  The time that I'd be arranged
  Is today to
  ~Close my, close my, close my eyes~
  But I couldn't find a way
  So I'll settle for one day
  To believe in you
  ~Tell me, tell me, tell me lies~
  
  (Chorus)
  Tell Me Lies, tell me sweet little lies
  ~Tell Me Lies, Tell me tell me lies~
  Oh no no, you can't disguise
  ~You can't disguise, no you can't disguise~
  Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
  
  And though I'm not making plans
  I hope that you understand
  There's a reason why
  ~Close your, close your eyes~
  No more broken hearts
  We're better off apart
  Let's give it a try
  ~Tell me, tell me lies~
  
  Tell Me Lies, tell me sweet little lies
  ~Tell Me Lies, Tell me tell me lies~
  Oh no no, you can't disguise
  ~You can't disguise, no you can't disguise~
  Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
  
  If I could turn the page
  The time that I'd be arranged
  Is today to
  ~Close my, close my, close my eyes~
  But I couldn't find a way
  So I'll settle for one day
  To believe in you
  ~Tell me, tell me, tell me lies~
  
  Tell Me Lies, tell me sweet little lies
  ~Tell Me Lies, Tell me tell me lies~
  Oh no no, you can't disguise
  ~You can't disguise, no you can't disguise~
  Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Para,
  
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  63 years old. Unbelievable!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If Christianity is all lies ,then by reason so are all the others at least from a divinity viewpoint since historically most religions are factually supported.
  
  I for one take the message of Christianity as a way to live life. The mythical / divine sayings, and events I take as not real facts but rather metaphors.
  
  However, I cannot deny the main message and intention of the Bible and of Christianity as well as most other religions as being suggestions & guides for one's life which are mostly sensible and geared towards doing good........and I hope that I have not offended anyone with my humble opinion or beliefs...
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I could not find her song on that. I would love to see it.
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Agnes Pennposted 13 years ago
To claim one religion is true or not you need to discuss what is religion and one's participation in it. If you view religion as a class to be studied in school you are not a participant of it, but a watcher and opinion rules, hence the many versions of religions.
Maybe you can consider this: Religion as a demonstration of the relationship with the one Who made us AND with each other.
If I love a man I am not going to study his eyes as specimens or his ears as works of art. I love him and this will shape my actions towards him and the relationship. If I love God Who was, is and will be I must demonstrate my love for Him Who is far above puny me by letting Him lead in the relationship: He sets the rules. For this there has to be good communication to know what He wants of me. This is where many go astray.
We all want to lead in a relationship and have forgotten the beauty of humility, so how can we recognize God's commands telling us what to do through another person? Our pride demands that God presents Himself to us and talks to us without trusting any intermediary. The original relationship between God our Creator and people was messed up because we wanted to do our will and not His. Jesus, all man and all God, is the only one capable of interceding for us to fix that relationship.
You can test the Bible under this light: the "history" of a relationship and see quite differently than a lab technician or archeologist would. But, you can prove a relationship just so far. After a while, if you never trust, you never love.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Who in their right mind would want a relationship with a nut case who's biggest trait is hating?

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And because of the 'religion of tolerance' we have 10,000 ways to a god today. We have fortune tellers, seances, mediums and summoners of the dead, etc.. a belief in ghosts and goblins, ghoolies and leprechauns, tree spirits and meditation, because of this smorgasbord of 'spiritual ways to communicate with a god (or demigod) of something or other there is much confusion over which is the real way to God.
  When Israel prospered it was the shining light to other nations and the fear of other nations.
  What we have today are societies where the parents are not respected because some are drunken, lousy parents who are self centered and care not in a GODLY fashion, thus being undrunken and responsible and not self centered but devoted to the raising of their offspring.
  If Israel were to keep the ways of God and teach their children the ways of God and be God fearing then that society would not have the problems we face today, just letting everyone do their own thing.
  Adultery causes much pain to many people and can even leave life long scars, mainly the inability to trust again and trauma for the children. A man or a woman who lusts too much is a detriment to their society because they seek for a new 'lay' often and seldom care where they get it. Singleness is a situation that although is lonely etc it is not a part of what God has for his people. Marriage is the norm.
  
  So in the context of these being judgments, not commandments of God to HIS people, there is nothing to judge here, by people who are not His people. God set the rules for HIS people and if that is a stumbling block to someone, so be it. What God was doing for HIS people was trying to avoid all the confusions and turmoil, heart-ache and sadness that we have today in our permissive society.
  
  God does not say death to followers of other religions, as jesus says,
  Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye DEPART out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
  Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall NOT receive you, NOR hear you, when ye DEPART thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.
  Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you;
  
  Do i hear the sound of a buzzer? again.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
"Welll, I have discovered a new hobby."
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What's that? Making meaningless forum posts in random threads?
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That and:
  
  Hi!
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Agnes Pennposted 13 years ago
@earnestshub: If I had a choice to live in China as a citizen of the world I would not be able to do the things I have sacrificed for and loved to do in the USA. Why should I hate China? Just live peaceably in the USA while there is still a choice.
My choice: don't live in China. If enough people in China don't like it they can leave or revolt ending the previous governmental relationship with the people. This is what you are asking of God. lucifer tried it. It didn't go well for him.
Why should I hate God because He established rules in a relationship between His children and Him? If you don't like God just don't get into a relationship with Him.
Faith begins with only one step: the absolute conviction that God exists, not out there, but among us. For if God exists death is beaten and life continues eternally; something to be fought for.
I return to the example of a man and woman who love each other. Once each is convinced that they love each other all obstacles can be overcome. It is that first faith step that will anchor the relationship.
Note on your comments about God's traits in the Bible: People needed Him to be just when He acted justly and they needed Him to be merciful when He acts mercifully. As with children, some may say how unfair their parents are treating their siblings better. It's not until we are parents that we understand our love is the same for all our kids, some have needs that others don't so we act severely when we must and kind when we ought. If you are now in God's level of parenting... question Him on a one-to-one basis. Let me know the outcome.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What exactly would you not be able to do in China that you value so much ?
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity.
  Faith without the government persecuting my freedom to practice it. That's what the USA is about: fighting for freedom to rule oneself.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As an ex christian I did my questioning 30 years ago.
  Your god is a psychopath.
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God is not the psychopath, and I resent this interpretation. It is those that twist the message to fit their goals that are the ones to blame...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't see this as psychopathic???
  
  Kill Fortunetellers
  
  A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
  
  Death for Hitting Dad
  
  Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
  
  Death for Cursing Parents
  
  1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
  
  2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
  
  Death for Adultery
  
  If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Luis, I have a better one for you and I don't need to go to the extreme of calling your god a psychopath.
  
  How about this.....you show me your god and we'll have a reasonable discussion on it? Otherwise, until then....there's no god. Why? Because there's actually NO NEED for one.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, Cags.... You really have a way with logic. It remains twisted and mangled from your "gentle touch."
  
  There really is no Cags, because there is no need.
  
  There really is no Mars, because there is no need.
  
  There really is no Earth, because there is no need. After all, what are we contributing to the universe, right?
  
  There is no observer of an event, because there is no need. The event is what it is whether there is an observer or not.
  
  Hmmm-mm-m. This kind of illogic doesn't work for me. Sorry.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you implying that I twisted the words I pulled straight out of your book?
  You may not like to read the really nasty psychotic bits, but they won't just go away.
  
  Read the whole book, and may I suggest as you are having problems with understanding it, that you read it in hebrew and Greek as well?
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Psychopathic? You are really pitifully ignorant, Earnest.
  
  You sound so knowledgeable, but you miss the point by a few light years.
  
  If the purpose of religion was to coddle our mortal behavior and to protect Homo sapiens life and ignore the spiritual, then yes, I'd have to agree that the quoted passages would seem quite psychopathic.
  
  But any behavior which coddles ego and ignores spirit is an abomination.
  
  I'm glad we have Jesus to give us new direction to the Laws of Moses, preferring love and tolerance. But that does not change the fact that such condemned activities as mentioned in Leviticus are still abominations, because they follow the master of this world, ego.
  
  When these Homo sapiens bodies are no more, then all your griping, whining and moaning about "poor, poor" criminals will be pretty meaningless. But the true selves, the soul within Earnest and each of us, will remain. Some will be awake and active, while those left behind will live in tortured dreams in their eternal slumber.
  
  It's a matter of choice. Some people choose to break the law and they suffer the consequences. While some people choose to follow the light of righteousness for its own sake, not their own.
  
  Bestiality anyone? Let's have a party with the animals, huh Earnest?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you would be a pretty good judge of what constitutes pitifully ignorant!
  
  I can see what you learned from studying under the late great Ron L Hubbard.
  
  3rd rate pop psychology married to science fiction.
  
  What in all hell has bestiality to do with anything?
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And back to self righteous preaching of a nonsensical, impossible afterlife that you know by majik you will get when anyone who doesn't believe the ego-based nonsense you are spouting gets punished. Your lack of comprehension is quite shocking. Self righteous hypocrisy at it's finest.
  
  No wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
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LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years ago
The words of men are not the words of God. When man twist them or interprets them to fit whatever their motives are it is then that religion, any religion suffers.

Most religions, including Christianity is one of peace and kindness towards one another. We cannot take the words of any man, including those found in parts of the Bible to brand an entire faith.

I am not dogmatic, what I do believe is that if we truthfully act in accordance to the main ideal of religions like for example Christianity, perhaps the entire world would be in better shape and like I said most religions teach more or less the same message of tolerance & kindness but most do also have their dogmatic practitioners and interpreters.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What god?
  You mean like you do?
  You need to change your view. Christianity is all about control. Nothing more and nothing less.
  In a way you're correct. Most people interpret whatever parts they choose to, and do away with the rest. So much for "god's" word.
  So controlling people is okay in your book?
  Tolerance? No religion that I know preaches or teaches tolerance. But nice try.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No religion, Cags? Perhaps you haven't read enough. Or is ego and arrogance blinding you, again?
  
  The Nazarene teacher said that we should love even our enemies. We should turn the other cheek and walk the extra mile. These are the things of this world and are not as important as our own spiritual awakening. So much for your statement that "no religion" teaches tolerance. So much for your shallow generalizations.
  
  All about control? Perhaps you fixate on that because control is so important to you. Have so-called Christians used ego instead of spirit? Fraid so! Pity, but your generalization shows ignorance and/or a lack of intelligence. One must be able to tell similarities and differences to be truly intelligent. One must be able to recognize that not all members of a group act the same way. Some Christians are actually very intelligent (scientists included) and compassionate individuals.
  
  Spiritual freedom is what Christianity is about. Do we need to "control" ourselves in order to attain that? Not all control is bad, Cags. Self-control can be good. Do you give into your impulses? Murder anyone recently?
  
  When you use such generalities, you sound really dumb.
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil: No I do not approve of anyone controlling anyone but I do believe that the message of Christianity as well as many other religions is one of tolerance and kindness towards one another. That man has corrupted it is something else and it's unfortunate. As far as organized religions yes you are correct it does leave a lot to be desired and should be changed for the better. Once you take the controlling aspect imposed by man then religion, any religion, stands for something better.
  
  I also believe that you are one of the most educated and prolific members of HubPages and the site greatly benefits by your participation, nevertheless I respectfully disagree with your interpretations but do also accept that all of us are entitled to our own views..thank you for listening to my rants and sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If it's corrupted as you say it is, then how in the world could anyone believe it teaches what you say it does?
  I thinking more along the lines that it should be done away with period.
  You cannot take the controlling aspect out of religion. To do so, is to take out Jesus' teachings, properly set the metaphors and bring people into reality. Otherwise, it just perpetuates the hoax.
  Well, you've not offended me and I appreciate your kind words. And, it's your right to disagree. However, I try not to interpreted things. I do try my best to be objective in perception whenever possible. Over the years, I've taught myself to use the knowledge(including experience) I've gained and discerned wisdom, to bring forth my understanding. But, again thank you.
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And I agree; Jesus teachings should be the only things that guides people. Metaphors should be understood for what they are and we should realize that his teachings were meant as examples of how we should be towards one another. Thanks.....
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  MissJamieDposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Great answer:)
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lone77starposted 13 years ago
What's your education, Rabgix?

The answer to your question might be... "When you, Rabgix, realize that you are an Easter bunny!" That's how dumb your question is.

There are plenty of Christians with some pretty fabulous educations. And there are many Christians in history who founded science -- Galileo, Sir Isaac Newton and many others. In fact, Newton tried his hand at a biblical timeline, ending up with one only slightly different than that of Archbishop Ussher a generation earlier than him.

Yes, there are numerous other religions. Have you studied any of them? I have studied a few. Scientology, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism and even the Kabbalah. I left my Southern Baptist minister grandfather's church when I was 9 and returned to Christianity nearly half a century later.

I've been an avid reader all my life. Does that count toward my edification? I only have a bachelors degree in computer information technology, summa cum laude. Does that count? I'm also a published author, award-winning essayist and a past Hollywood artist with screen credit. I haven't done too badly, this lifetime. How about you, Rabgix?

Instead of sitting on the sidelines, mouthing off with inane questions, disrespecting a great religion, I've actually looked into some of the tough questions posed by skeptics. I've even been a bit skeptical myself of other people's interpretations. In exegetical research, I've discovered a biblical timeline compatible with those of science. I've even found the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" embedded in Genesis, and some scholars thought the Kabbalists didn't get their start until the Middle Ages.

Maybe you need a bit more education.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, history has shown us what the church did to Galileo, science and many others.
  
  What about the tough question of parting a sea of cars on a boulevard just for you?
  
  Yes, the Inquisition timeline lined up perfectly with biblical compatibility.
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ershruti304posted 13 years ago
All I know is that any religion which hurts people emotionally or physically is a lie but any religion serving humanity can never be a lie.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can't think of any religion that serves humanity and isn't self-serving.
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KiandraRutledgeposted 13 years ago
Well, I've been thoroughly educated in its history and I came away with belief in Christianity. Being christian means following in the footsteps of Christ, which how bad can that be when Christ was a loving and peaceable person. Now if you're referring to the religion of Christianity that's a different thing. For some years it's been infiltrated and corrupted. People do not take the time to read the bible themselves, but rather go to church and have a minister "tell" them what's in it, when the minister could be giving out incorrect information. Anyone who reads the bible and their minister or preacher is teaching something that's not in it should leave that church. That does not mean the bible is not true or effective. Pretty soon everyone is going to be asked to pledge allegiance to some god under the new world religion in the new world order. Atheists would not be excluded. Many of the world powerful people worship a god. What better way to steer people from Christianity than to corrupt it's teachings or downplay it as a foolish religion which is often taught in higher education? Yes, I've been to college and still came away believing in Christianity. It works for me.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Asked, or forced?
  
  Really sorry to hear that, you have my sympathies.
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KiandraRutledgeposted 13 years ago
I may also add that just as there are those who go to church and allow some minister or preacher to tell them what's in the bible without reading it thoroughly themselves, the same can be said for those who go to college and allow a professor to tell them what's in it or not in it and what to believe about it, when they (the person in the class) haven't taken the time to read it thoroughly themselves.
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Arcjahadposted 13 years ago
I don't believe the average Christian really cares about what the bible teaches because I feel they love their Pastors/Priest and traditions more. Secondly i never trust people who follow a belief system without researching it if you ask 100 Christians how many wise men came to visit the messiah and I bet you 99 will say three wise men why because they dont read the scriptures for themselves , just about every name in the bible was changed to a hellenized version and some were completely omitted from the bible like our creators name which was written about 7000 time in the bible but changed to LORD/God but nobody seems to care. And then you here well his name doesn't matter he knows my heart well I ask why don't you care enough to research it . And before someone attacks my beliefs I read the bible everyday ,I call on my heavenly fathers name and I believe that his Son is our messiah no trinity here.
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  KiandraRutledgeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you to some point. But we're talking about Christianity. There were actually worshippers of God before Christianity was formed who did not have a book to go by, but still had faith in their heavenly father and believed in a heavenly god: Abraham, Noah, Moses and others. So the fact that the bible doesn't have this and that is not an excuse. We already know the bible was going to get changed around and turned around to some extend dued to apostasy, but there is still alot of practical wisdom found in it that can be followed. Everyone get so caught up into the historical aspect of it, what about the wisdom found in it? When followed it leads to a very beautiful life and relationship with God despite the other stuff. That's what it means to worship in spirit and truth.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kiandra, you're quite right!
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The very nature of humanity goes against Christianity's values. That's the main thing.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Better make sure you have the right impossible fairy!

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

What a load of psychotic emu poo!
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @earnestshub: I'm not sure if you are actually asking about these passages. The one you quote here is for a time to come and speaks of false prophets. You are trying to interpret the Bible without the author's help since you do not believe God inspired it.
  One's eyes can be fooled into seeing something that is not there because the mind is preconceived. But if you know best, please explain to me how I can be blind to a logic in the Bible one day, but suddenly my eyes are opened to a logical progression of a relationship between us and God the next? For example:
  There is a parable that many hear and claim God is unfair - psychopath, in your words - yet, I looked the other day and saw something different from what I'd seen before.
  The parable speaks of a man that hires different people at different times of the day and pays them all the same wage at the end. Why would Jesus use such an unfair image to show Who His Father is? Psycho, right? Contradictory and illogical?
  Well, many of us have siblings and I was thinking recently how unfair for the youngest child to be born after the family has experienced so many wonders before the last child's birth. How unfair. The parents may even be rebuked by the child, "why did you have me if you were not going to give me what you gave my brothers: your best times, youth and health!" As parents this is a no-brainer. You love each child. Period. You don't care to plan to love one more than another. You just love. It's not the parent who is unfair in their love, it's the child who lacks understanding until they, themselves, become parents and have to share their love.
  The parable then is explained through the eyes of love instead of materialism: God the Father "hires" some early on to represent His family and even sacrifice their lives for those who will come later and He pays them with love. Others are "hired" later on in mankind's history. They are loved the same by their Creator, payed with love.
  Another way to see it: If you have been separated from your mother for a long time and can only see her for a few more minutes, those minutes in her arms are an eternity. The payment received is those few minutes of love. You don't care to judge her as if you're better than her, you just love her back. We can't judge God: just love Him back.
  You cannot judge the parable, the Bible, according to our puny minds enslaved by consumerism and materialism.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What a loaded statement if I ever heard one.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you look around today you can see many obvious and not so obvious false prophets. People see these false prophets and they point fingers and end up saying things like, "oh look what so and so said and it didn't come true", so their ability to believe is compromised. Is this not so in other areas too?
  So God said, remove this stumbling block out of the way so that only my words my be heard. Once again this is God protecting his people from unsavory people who may just be trying to earn a quick buck on the side or are not proclaiming the correct word from God for whatever reason.
  Do you not see the harm in just allowing everyone to do whatever they want? There always need to be rules, not prisons, but rules.
  Imagine if today, false prophets were not sued but put to death. Lets look at Campers last prediction that went wrong, He would be dead by now and how many more would be quick to prophesy after him? And would not his flock be looking for another shepherd? In fact if the false prophets from 50 yrs ago were put to death do you think we would have false prophets now? i don't think so.
  Does that help ya understand? You think spiritual things are so easily discerned that any ole thing can go on and all is okay? Diligence is needed my friend, a good firm example or two because wide is the gate... etc.
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teacherjoe52posted 13 years ago
If you studied history you would discover there is a God and can easily be proven. It has time and time again.

Perhaps you should study the Bible and archeology and history, try studying anatomy, biology. the list goes on and on how the more you try to diaprove the existence of God the more the facts prove He does exist. Open your mind and you will find a wonderful God. Enjoy you journey of discovery
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you should be the one doing the study.
  
  You seem to know less about the subjects you raise than anyone else here who has been flogging their religion.
  
  If you wanted to discuss anything outside your narrow religious view, there have been plenty of opportunities provided.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you need to learn more teacher.
  Been there done that. I realize you're new to the forums, but if anyone honestly studies the bible and I mean being honest with themselves(first and foremost) and keeps an open mind when doing their studies, then the only conclusion one could come to is that there's no god.
  Actually, this statement is false.
  You will only find it in your imagination.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wow is that ever a false statement
  Seeing as you have called everyone who studies the bible dishonest with themselves. Do you care to show a few examples of this dishonesty?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You prove it every time you post to the threads. What more proof do I need to apply?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  okay since that didn't work
  can you EXPLAIN what you mean by everyone who studies the bible is dishonest with themselves
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Lizzabellaposted 13 years ago
All I have to add is this... If our country is so free to practice your own beliefs as some say it is, then tell me why followers of religions that are anything but Christianity face so much social persecution, isolation, and discrimination? It is as if anything but the main stream view is less than.
Religion plays very important roles in some people's lives and that should be respected. However, I think religion crosses the line, excuse me, people cross the line when they are not able to accept that what they believe to be true has the possibility to be just as false as they believe a conflicting religion to be. There are far too many individuals in this world, all with varied belief systems. To hold on to one truth so dearly and be ignorant of all else in front of your eyes can result in a narrow and less enriching life experience. So while it's important to hold on to your spirituality as it may help you in your life, remember that your truth is not someone else's and that's perfectly acceptable.
Personally, there are far too many possibilities, not only in this world but beyond our solar system. Something great exists out there, but who am I to decide what that is, I'm merely a human with a human mind, able to make human errors.
Interestingly, there are growing number of atheists to this day.
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  ElSeductorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lizzabella,
  
  A very intelligent response.
  
  R
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes that would be interesting IF not for a small factoid. There has always been one way to God. This makes sense since there is only ONE God. As much as i am human there is only one way to me - truth and honesty - and so i would think the same with a God. Is there truth in coming to God in a very great and sundry ways as we see today? Since the OT obviously and blatantly points out ONE way and Jesus endorsed that quite blatantly, then it only makes sense that ONE way it is ... especially when "wide is the way that leads to destruction". Sinful activity deprecates society as a whole and individual lives can be devastated, is it not obvious that a God which enjoys truth and honesty would like people to live lives of truth and honesty. I think it is.
  Much of the confusion and negativity towards not every religion - just christianity - is that beside the point that christianity is not unhonest nor is it untruthful, even to the purpose of changing peoples lives, even when it hurts, but, because there are so many professed paths to enlightenment and spirituality and a god that is not truth; adds to this confusion. God went to elaborate means even capital punishment to preserve truth and honesty in his people and also their society. All points that we have abandoned today and we see the mess we are in.
  There are a growing number of atheists today because none of them can understand what they read. that is obvious also, but more to the point and humorous jargon aside, the liberality with watering down what are Gods intentions toward his people and his society is a reason. Raised in a God fearing society there would not be a problem believing in a God such as we have.
  The information highway is a double edged sword in this area also.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You just COMPLETELY missed the entire point of that post and went ahead did exactly what they claimed the blindly religious do which is flawed.
  
  Wow
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Some of us realised it was all lies years ago when it first got properly debunked by science, logic and common sense.

Some remain ignorant by choice.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty much, many of the people here are under the impression that they can use History, Genetics and other Sciences to prove God and i'm in awe.
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Cathleena Beamsposted 13 years ago
The Bible is God's word. Without faith you can't accept it. Only those who seek God find Him. If you are out there trying to prove the Bible's false, that Jesus isn't God's son, you'll believe it. If there isn't a God, you have nothing to worry about, but if there is, you are the one who has everything to loose. Just because you can't see God with your human eyes doesn't mean He isn't there. You can't see the wind but you can see it's effects. Look around you at His creation, perhaps you'll see Him.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Agnes this may come as a shock to you, but if I said you have to believe in me and worship me or I will have your parents kill you, would you see that as psychotic?
Psychosis is what it is, it doesn't need to be in or out of context.
It is what it says it is.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, atheists who have no purpose in a life after this one and believe no One created them and is overseeing AND participating of His creation can easily take human DNA mix it with plant matter and/or animal matter and if after this cocktail mix nothing perfect to their purposes comes out throw it out and start over. How outrageous, then, is to think of a creator Who sees His creation being messed up.
  As a writer you would be outraged that as owner of a copyright should have your work stolen and modified. Why are you outraged if God says to "kill" or not at His direct command in one part of the history of a people's relationship? If you are so knowledgeable in the Bible you would know how Jesus came to fulfill the law and how the Pharisees tried to trip Him up within the law. Keep taking verses out of context and you will be responsible before God for modifying His writings. I wouldn't want to pay for that copyright infringement.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And stop calling God psychotic. That's hate speech!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not the one who authorised the hate speech in the bible, it was your god remember?
  Do you not know what psychosis is?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you knew anything at all about the bible you would stop trying to disconnect your OT god from the NT.
  
  Care to share the source of your biblical knowledge?
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  Cathleena Beamsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You mean this god?
  
  If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
  
  What a nasty mentally unstable little god this is!
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is no "disconnect". There is a progression in a relationship. His nature doesn't change. How He deals with us because of OUR choices changes His approaches towards us.
  The same doctors that worked in ancient Greece on "psychotic" patients knew the same as today's doctors? Shouldn't. There should be a progression, but because of the choices of many corrupt doctors sometimes one wonders if the old guys knew best. The progression in science is halted by choices.
  The progression in our relationship with God has had ups and down. He, however, was, is and will be the same always.
  Stop insulting.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can well imagine you or any other person who cant separate reality from fantasy finding anything that disagrees with them insulting
  You always toss out insults by proxy then feel insulted by any truth!
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I dare you to go to New York and call some one psychotic in Brooklyn. He may or may not be, but first you'll get a beating when you least expect it and then you'll get a suit in the mail for slander.
  Stop insulting my God. Treat everyone the same. Either you believe He exists or not. If you do... respect. If you don't... let me and millions others believe in peace. It's only fair and balanced.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No it is not fair and balanced, it is total bulldust!
  
  Your invisible no-show god belief dictates hate filled crud all over the planet to the great detriment of all humanity, and selling the lie that this is love is a disgrace.
  I spent time in the Bronx on several occasions, and did not see the aggression you speak of.
  I bet you would love to see me beaten up, but sorry to disappoint you.
  
  Just the sort of threat by proxy we see here all the time.
  I don't get beaten up.... read a few of my hubs and you may see why.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My only disappointment is in seeing how you spun out of the argument.
  No. I don't wish violence for you or anyone else. If I was not able to explain my beliefs in a clearer way I apologize. I thought as grown-ups we could discuss, but my pride must have blurred the lines of communication somewhere.
  I don't see your peaceful perception of New York. A New York attitude is world-famous: walk down the street without looking anyone in the eye; live under lock and key; check your purse and wallet leaving a group of people; sue your mother if you have to to get ahead. I could go on, but I just choose to not live in NY while not hating new yorkers.
  BTW, Mother Theresa, whose funeral was assisted by 100s of 1000s of non-Christians to honor her life, lived a life giving honor to the God you insult.
  Maybe you are looking for an excuse to get angry at people who have harmed you in the name of a God falsely, not of a false god. If any of those people were Christians, in their name I again apologize. Anger should not rule your heart. I wish you peace.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You use a really bad example, Mother Theresa. Yes, she did write much about a god, however, later in her years of aging, realized the hoax. Too bad, she let it ruin the reminder of her life and her outlook for living, which resulted in her death.
  Religion is the false god Jesus warned people about, yet billions follow it, only because religion included Jesus' teachings without his approval.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The remainder of her life ruined? I sure hope you have half as many people come to your funeral giving witness of your kindness and faith, which BTW she never imposed on anyone.
  Which Jesus are you quoting? Once again a string of arguments lost with cynical, laughing-in-you-face faces the way two year olds fight. If you want to share something within a hubpages forum make it more cerebral and less angry. You might stand a better chance at communication.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I'm smart enough to know that I don't want anyone at my funeral. I wouldn't want them to detract from their normal everyday life, just for me. And, yes, when she came to the self-realization of her work was for nothing, because she broke through the hoax brought forth by religion, she was devastated.
  Which Jesus? I only know of one Jesus that was actually put into religion after his execution.
  A string of arguments lost? Lady, you've yet to even begin the conversation, considering you lack the depth to keep up.
  I have no anger. I got over that almost a decade ago, when I broke through the irrationality of the hoax known as religion.
  And, you might actually stand a better chance at a conversation, if you weren't already digging a hole you're standing in.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mother Teresa gave up on your god before she died.
  You should read more.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mother Teresa was not a goddess. She is a person who experienced doubts, fears and anger same as we all do. And she overcame these choosing until death a particular relationship with God and other people as witnessed by those not of her faith.
  You really have to read up a little bit more than just the headlines.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one said she was. Do you not read the words written in front of you?
  Actually, this would be untrue. Why don't YOU read more than just headlines?
  Again, you're speaking as if you've no knowledge. Yes, for a great many years Mother Teresa did believe in a god and then one day she came to a realization which STOPPED her from writing about the god she believed in. Do you know why she stopped? She stopped because she finally had a realization through self awareness that there's no god and to write about a god that doesn't exist is dishonest. Which is why she never wrote another word about a god, as she did in the past. She realized that she was lying to those who believed in her faith.
  Maybe you should choose what you read a little bit more careful.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mother Teresa never published any books. Others wrote about her. Her journals were shown during the cause for sainthood. In these, one entry was found and presented that she may have had doubts during a difficult time in her life. She overcame her doubts, per her journals, and maintained not only her faith, but proclaimed it by example.
  She had the notoriety, fame and backing of the world to expose any problems with her faith. She didn't.
  She went further to say she was not a social worker, but her work and her sisters' work is successful only because they see Jesus in every one. That's not the witness of someone who denied God.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're correct, she never published any books, but that doesn't mean that she didn't write down her thoughts.
  Yes, this is known. Thus, common knowledge.
  You mean only the ones that were useful, right?
  What was shown to the public showed the public what it wanted and needed to see. You don't seriously think the "church" was going to allow anything that was damaging to come out?
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, I understand you are not of this faith. I was not using arguments based on what the church said since the conversation would be one-sided.
  I mentioned Mother Teresa because her life touched people today, not past generations that, within the Church, wrote their lives. Her life work can be confirmed today by those who are not Christian.
  The only one who made her doubts public, BTW, has been the Catholic Church and the rest of the media has picked it up.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Correct, I am of the understanding that the only faith required is in myself and those who live in this world.
  Actually, it wouldn't be one-sided, but the "church"'s actions are known and been written about.
  Of course her work can be confirmed. The "church" and many of other people made sure of that.
  Her doubts were written, which were not only restricted to "church" access, which is how the public learned about it. It has nothing to do with what the "church" wanted, because the public's right to know was something that couldn't be completely stopped, only delayed. The "church" relied on it's power to stop the public from learning about it, but did release what was relevant during the time. What was hidden from the public was released at a later time, so it would be less credible and damaging.
  
  That's all I am pointing out. Her faith changed completely compared to what it was. Later in her life is exactly as I said earlier.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Instead of just beaking off second hand information perhaps you could come up with a little something to back up your bias claim?
  Lets look at some bible shall we.
  1 Kings 19:2 Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.
  1 Kings 19:3 And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beersheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there.
  1 Kings 19:4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.
  
  The history of these passages are in the chapter previous. Elijah had just completed a successful contest between the prophets of baal and Israels God, Elijah had called down fire from heaven to consume a soaked sacrifice, then he predicted rain and ran ahead of a chariot.
  But then we see Elijah has suicidal thoughts. The point here is that sometimes in the amounts of energy that is devoted to others we forget to recharge ourselves. Its called burnout.
  and
  Psalms 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
  Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
  
  These are passages King David wrote after his sins about Bathsheba. He was in remorse over the wrong thing he did concerning Bathshebas husband.
  
  We need to note that anyone who follows the ways of poverty are not overjoyed nor content, etc. I know, i work with homeless in canada - nothing to be compared with homeless in India.
  Mother Teresa spent 30 yrs in India, one of the most impoverished nations in the world. So, it is natural to suspect that she would feel a scale of emotions from very good to really very bad. If my bad days words were written down some might think the worst of me. The disadvantage that mother teresa had a catholic would not have helped her either - just sayin - don't jump all over me for that although it is worth a measure of truth. Catholics are all about works, working to do enough good deeds to appease God and earn entry into heaven, but that is not what Christianity is all about.
  So suffice it to say, that some people can use this mother teresa story as ammo to enforce their belief there is no God, but really, its more properly true to say, there is only way to God.
  Solomon, King of Israel, there is no doubt he was anointed by God and that God blessed him, but he strayed from the ways of God by breaking Gods small principles first, then bigger principles.. until.
  1 Samuel 28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath RENT the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David:
  1 Samuel 28:18 Because thou obeyed not the voice of the LORD, nor executed his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee THIS day.
  
  Paul said:
  2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
  2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
  2 Corinthians 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
  2 Corinthians 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
  2 Corinthians 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
  2 Corinthians 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which comes upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
  
  And yet Paul continued in the faith and kept the faith truly until the day of his death.
  
  So we really ought not to comment our second hand opinions about what others go through and upon their private speeches and give respect where it is due.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, you should stop attempting to use scripture, which is meaningless.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hahaha that's funny cags
  as if that's ever going to happen
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess it's a good thing you didn't want to have a rational discussion with tripe slung in this post.
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Repairguy47posted 13 years ago
Nobody has ever said that to me.
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Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago
I have a bunch of mice powering my car; they stay in the engine block. They are a special kind of sky-fairy mice that don’t mind just consuming gasoline. They are connected to my accelerator pedal via linkage which leads to their Rat-master. Lately however, they haven’t been performing up to my standards, so I took the car in to the automotive repair shop.
I couldn’t believe what the mechanic told me! He said that I needed a valve job and a timing chain … what the hell does he think he’s doing - trying to pull the wool over my eyes? I KNOW that I have mice powering my car - NOT mechanical components like he’s trying to make me believe!
Listen, I don’t care what the mechanic says … just because he says he has rebuilt many motors and has studied engines for years, doesn’t mean he is right! I have fed my mice gasoline for years and they haven’t complained to me. I think I ought to just not pay this guy any attention and take my car home, and let the mice rest for a spell. Then I’ll make sure that I feed them new, fresh gas, and everything will turn out just as I figure.

Compare that with:

Oh you Christians don’t know what you’re talking about! I learned in school all about evolution, so that means that your assertion that there is a God who sent His Son to teach us and guide us in the way to Salvation and Redemption is a load of Hock! Why do you Christians always try to teach me what I hate being taught? I just know, especially from all the new developing science, that there is no such thing as a Heavenly Father who Created us! We evolved from let’s see … (how can I simplify this for you?) single-celled organisms, yea, that’s right! It took a heck of along time, I admit, but that’s where we came from, and when we die, it’s all over Honey!

Now weren’t those two arguments using the same narrow-mined logic - never mind a complete lack of desire to seek out the truth? I could write a hub on this type of argument, but how then will all the nay-sayers see it? Hopefully by posting it here, some people can relate; know who those may be? I rest my case.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't have a case to rest!
  
  You can whip the head off and see the worn valves, fill the head combustion chamber with petroleum and watch it leak!
  
  \You could also look for mice while you are there!
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Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago
You mean you never had a mouse in you "General Motors" vehicle? I guess you can't see the relationship in arguments then, can you?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No I have not. All the cars I have owned were powered by science not mice.
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Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago
Damage is what damage does. People make mistakes and have doubts, but the WORK that Mother Teresa did shall go, and indeed has gone down in history as unselfish, unjudgemental, loving SERVICE to her fellow human beings. When someone tries and damage or sully this FACT, they let the world know their position of a complete lack of respect for the woman, and moreso for her TREMENDOUS work.
Each of us has doubts from time to time, due to frustrations, as well as due to the consideration of detractor's insolence and crafty dissuation of chosen course.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one is disputing what the woman did. So, get off your high horse, before you make yourself look worse than you already do.
  I'm not disrespecting what she did. To think I am, is foolishness on your part. I'm speaking of her later years in life.
  It's already known that chosen ignorance is one of the worse things happening in this world. It's just about time more and more people woke up to the fact that it happens too often.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Cagsil, Allright, I am ignorant of some details of perhaps the thoughts Mother Teresa harboured when she was in her latter days. I do not really wish to search for any mud to sling against her doubts, and, more importantly, I do not doubt that the work she did, she did from her heart, AND from her love of God. In totality, as the world confirms, she has reached venerable status in the logs of History.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Let me rephrase your paragraph here, just a little. She did the work she did, based on the love and compassion she had for people. It was partly based on her belief in a god.
  Yes, this was never in dispute. Her actions were definitely to be commended and there's never any doubt about that. However, her apology to the world was never made common knowledge, which is my point, as I stated earlier. The later years of her life, she felt bad because she lied to all the people who had faith in her and her belief in a god.
  
  When she came to that realization, she slipped into a depression state and quit writing about a god. This is what the "church" covered up for as long as it could.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, you seem to have read more than I about Mother Teresa. Tell me then, since she loved other people (obviously), did she or did she not recant what she had wriiten about the God she believed in, for the good of those she loved?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  From what I've learned, yes. It was done in her last writings before she stopped writing.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have done extensive work on Mother Teresa and she never recanted. You are using this thread to change the truth to your liking. She never left her faith and ALL her work, she stated, she was able to do because she saw Jesus in others. Try to clean a dying person's body filled with maggots so they can die with dignity and not throw up.
  All your books and knowledge will never help you overcome the stench of rotting flesh. Even the Buddhist monks realized that there was more than human beings could overcome. A divinity was working with her and through her and her sisters. Between her sisters, Muslims and Buddhists lies peace co-existing initiated by her. I dare you to find of all the learned people in the world the treasure she found in the afflicted, the destitute, the rejected. And to boot, she never proselytized! She served without telling people they had to be this or that faith.
  I dare you to truly read about her work and what could move a person to leave her home, be persecuted by arrogant fools that through progressive, better-than-thou ideals have caused wars, poverty and destruction and forgive them. I dare you to go into slums and smile, give a blessing to someone who is cursing you. I dare you to tell me what philosophy teaches to love your enemy, something that is diametrically opposed to human nature, and remain in peace under pain.
  No, You are slandering a saint. She never recanted her faith. No writing or witness can ever be placed on the balance of her life's work and come out on top. But maybe you too can be forgiven since her Master was vilified by envious men the same as her for doing only good.
  BTW, she retired due to successive heart attacks and no one told her to return to work by force. But she returned after every heart attack and remained leader of her sisters by choice till her death. You will not steal that away from her. I hope this wets your appetite of knowledge enough to truly learn from a giant. I pray to her now for you that she may intercede for you before Jesus, the Son of God, and grant you peace.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think she can answer your prayers?
  
  I do believe she was a good woman, and perhaps a "saint" as in a true Believer (I dunno), but....you actually pray to her?
  
  I'm a Christian, but not a Catholic. I've never understood where in the Bible that Catholics get the idea that any human being besides Jesus (who was both God and man) has the power to grant requests, or to intercede after they're dead.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  only God can make saints.
  no where can the living or the dead be prayed too.
  
  This is a part of some pagan belief which catholicism is stuffed full of.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Hi! What is the problem here?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are a very naughty cat paradigmsearch.
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Wentworth35posted 13 years ago
It depends what you mean by lies. Much of the story of Jesus was written a long time after his death, and by writers who had not even met him. Also, many of the things attributed to Jesus were taken from stories which had been going around the Middle East for hundreds of years before him. And the festivals, Christians use to celebrate passages in the life of Jesus are actually taken from pagan festivals. And the Church over the centuries has added dogmas and beliefs, which had nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. So, certainly, there is very little historical accuracy in the beliefs of Christianity. However, there are certain truths in the teachings which have been attributed to Christ, such as love, forgiveness, the golden rule of treating others as you would wish to be treated, not judging others etc. Whilst these teachings are not unique to Christ, they are nevertheless great rules to live by. The fact that the Buddha and other religious figures have had the same teachings, might suggest that these are eternal truths, which much of mankind, wherever or whenever they have lived would agree with.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very well said.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and by writers who had not even met him
  
  not true. The gospels were eyewitnesses of Jesus resurrection and followed him for years or were companions of apostles, mark to peter and luke to paul. The new testament comprises of the Gospels, Pauline letters and Hebrews, which is excellent btw.
  
  Much of the story of Jesus was written a long time after his death
  
  Not that long after. The early church (Acts 2 1 onward) was a fully functioning church empowered by the holy spirit and contained the apostles of Jesus, they had creeds and doctrines that were passed down, albeit orally, until formally written within the lifetimes of other eyewitnesses not of that group, so here we have a timeline of immediately. The Gospels although written 20 yrs after is not a long time in that culture who traditionally used oral recitations for centuries. This is kind of like, your father has the creed of "thou shalt not steal" and he teaches it to his child who teaches it to his child and throughout the lineage it goes. In this society, they made sure they got it right.
  
  Also, many of the things attributed to Jesus were taken from stories which had been going around the Middle East for hundreds of years before him
  
  How do you prove this?
  
  And the festivals, Christians use to celebrate passages in the life of Jesus are actually taken from pagan festivals. And the Church over the centuries has added dogmas and beliefs, which had nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
  
  This is catholicism you are talking about. If i am not a catholic and i realize the truth of this, and i do not partake in these beliefs, how can i as a christian be lumped in?
  
  So, certainly, there is very little historical accuracy in the beliefs of Christianity
  
  Aside from the documentation of faithful men of God who were followers of Jesus and saw him with their eyes after his crucifixion, there is the fact that historically, Christianity spread far and wide after Jesus was crucified. How did this happen? People do not die for a false belief and neither to honest people perpetuate a false belief. All the 'saints' had grizzly deaths and went through enormous effort to perpetuate that jesus rose from the dead. Some historians have mentioned enough to support that jesus lived and was an extraordinary man. 28,000 parchments of the new testament in all, in other languages as well.
  IF we removed the greek documents we could still assemble the NT from the other sources.
  The day of darkness is recorded by other surrounding nations, egypt for example, mesopotamia albeit they mention it as a solar eclipse.
  Josephus, works of antiquities covers from genesis onward as a historian, he adds some very interesting things along the way.
  
  Whilst these teachings are not unique to Christ, they are nevertheless great rules to live by. The fact that the Buddha and other religious figures have had the same teachings, might suggest that these are eternal truths, which much of mankind, wherever or whenever they have lived would agree with
  
  buddha was alive between 563 and 483 B.C his works were written down in the first century bc. approximately a 400 yr gap much longer than the gospels but still he does not predate the OT. Yes Gods commandments are eternal truths and the beckoning for these eternal truths are throughout the OT and honestly, just make good common sense.
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ChAsInGJesusposted 13 years ago
How is Christianity 'just current'? The bible's text is the most accurate and reliable religious texts, because the majority of the source documents are accounted for (more than any other religion). Additionally, you have four different accounts of Jesus's life from four different people. That is more witnesses then required in court to convict someone of something. It takes more faith not to believe in Jesus than it does to believe in him.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your comment on court witnesses is interesting.
  
  Were I on the jury and heard 4 witnesses that told such varying stories as the "writers" of the gospels I would seriously question all of them.
  
  Add in multiple "translations" by people that wanted and accepted only those passages that fit what they themselves wanted to say and the problem is exacerbated.
  
  Now add that the witnesses themselves did not question anything and did not try to disprove any "miracles" - they took everything at face value.
  
  Do you begin to see why others that are faithless and do not already believe question just a little?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But the fact remains that the Gospels do not discredit each other, they agree with each other.
  While in a courtroom one witness may say, i saw the accused enter the alley, and another may say, i saw the accused run out of the alley and the third may say, i saw the accused leave the alley after i hear a gunshot, this is what the gospels do.
  When all the evidence is accumulated the end result is that the accused entered the alley, a gunshot was heard and then he was seen running out of the alley.
  
  If we had reports that were exactly the same, would we not then say, "it is a conspiracy, the witnesses have rehearsed their information together"?
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ChAsInGJesusposted 13 years ago
Wentworth,
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote provided four accounts of Jesus's life. They were his followers that knew him when he lived. What you just said was completely inaccurate. Anyone who listens to you, obviously, has never read the new testament. I recommend that you purchase a bible and get your facts straight.
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I have many different versions of the Bible, which I used to read daily, when I was a Christian. I have also studied religion at degree level, and worked in a Roman Catholic seminary, so believe I know the Bible quite well.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have also made an extensive study of the bible and am an EX christian, and I also agree with you.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  figures
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ChAsInGJesus, I appreciate your input. The Bible is unique Book. I would like to add about this lies. The disciples were scare they would be also crucified. But after resurrection it is different story. All but one died violent death. Why was it? For lie. Would you die for lie?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh a roman catholic.. well you may not know the bible as well you think. All that false indoctrination would certainly not be a bonus in my books.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Did you do the research on it? Or are you taking someone's word who taught you about religion?
  
  Do the research. You'll learn that someone had hand-writing analysis done on the scriptures and Matthew-Mark and Luke were written by the same person.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Proof required! please.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You apparently didn't bother to read the post you're responding to. Like my post said- do the research. What part did you not understand? However, I'll give you a name to get you started- Dr. Frank R. Wallace. His continuing research on religion and life in general, took nothing for granted and didn't assume answers.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would say that the copies we have today to reference from were in fact copied by the same person. And as we don't have any original works, only copies or copies of copies. This would seem to fit with handwriting being the same for texts found all in the same place.
  
  But writing styles seem to point to various authors. Or at least different schools of thought.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, do you think that the level of one's consciousness(awareness) would attribute to the differences?
  
  Just a thought.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is possible. The gospels were written at different times. the first three are very similar in content, just varied writing styles and audience. John on the other hand, while a similar story, he presents Jesus completely different that the other 3.
  
  Anything is possible. I just haven't found anything, to date, that would suggest that the 4 gospels were written by one person. But we are finding out new things all the time.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  its always nice to get a response to a simple question answered with a bit of insult. I just thought you might have the url handy instead of running me all over the internet.
  
  Wikipedia doesn't have one good thing to say about him. In fact he is a bit of a charlatan.
  
  by His love we shall know you
  have a nice day
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is that all takes for you to believe in an invisible man in the sky?
  
  Damn if it only it were that easy to convince people that homosexuality isn't work. Just write up some books, claim "God" said it was right so if you question it you will go to hell and voila.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Author of the book of Matthew is unknown. He got most of his material from the Book of Mark. If the author was eyewitness of Jesus, why would he need to base his book of Mark's account? Which was possibly written by a follower of and interpreter for Peter. And Luke was a follower of Paul and that author got most of his material from the book of Mark as well. The Book of John was written by John the Elder is scholars best guess not John the beloved. As Polycarp a disciple of the Beloved Disciple (thought to be John) was noted as a source of partial information found in the book of John.
  
  The earliest Gospel written was Mark, it is estimated to have been written in the early 60's CE, Matthew and Luke came later between 70-85CE and the book of John wasn't written until at least 90CE.
  
  None of these books were written by eyewitness of Jesus. Seeing as most of the apostles were killed by the time Jeruselem was destroyed in 70CE. They were written from second hand accounts at best. The oldest copy we have to date, is a scrap with four verses from Chapter 18 of the Book of John from about 125CE and was found in Egypt. The oldest complete NT codex is from the 4th century. You might want to study up on where, who and why these gospels were written prior to poking at others for their lack of knowledge.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If any of them were real, that is. Jesus and his apostles are works of fiction, just like Zeus, or Vishnu or Osiris....
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A few of the "Apostles" were real. There is other than biblical records of the deaths of Peter, James, John, and Steven. But they were referred to as founders (Pillars) of the Christian church rather than followers of Jesus.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Peter: This legend was dreamed up by the mid-2nd century pope Anicetus (156-166)
  James: Which one?
  John:or James bar Damneus?
  I'm not contesting that there are similar named people who preached Christianity, I'm just stating that there were no disciples of Jesus, and the Jesus story with his apostles is a work of fiction. Well you said as such, I'm just clarifying.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?

The will realize it when they would understand that Jesus did not die on the Cross; he died in India and is buried at Mohallah Khanyar, Srinagar, India.
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  LailaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know? Your argument is very interesting, can you tell me about the sources you got this info from? I am not being sarcastic, I am just interested in reading more about Jesus.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please click anyone or more of the following links:
  
  www.alislam.org/books/jesus-in-india/
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_years_of_Jesus
  www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
  www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DXCZFRsyl8
  krishnatube.com/video/293/Jesus-in-India--BBC-Documentary
  www.tombofjesus.com/
  www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/
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  LailaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have to admit that alislam.org is not an accurate website. The whole Ahmadiyya stuff is a bunch of lies. Islam believes that there is one God (Allah), and that the last prophet is Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) NOT Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Mirza is an imposter who claimed he was a prophet. He was from India, which proves why he would claim that Jesus died in India. Thanks for putting up the resources!
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  Lizzabellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with LailaK. I'm curious about this. I've never heard of that before.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here ya go.
  
  http://www.oocities.org/trueworldhistory/christ2.html
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Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago
As Mother Teresa put it in her book, "A Simple Path"
The fruit of silence is Prayer.
The fruit of prayer is Faith.
The fruit of faith is Love.
The fruit of love is Service.
The fruit of service is Peace.
Obviously then, when she wrote this, she was at peace with her God. I would think that her simple philosophy as noted above was not ever recanted by her, because it all ties together in such logical fashion.
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AlMonseesposted 13 years ago
Going back to the original question, what are we really asking? We are to realize that Christianity is all lies and then believe what? Believe evolution or in a different religion? The statement made is that if we knew some “actual history” then we would realize there is more than one religion… so is it that you think Christianity needs to be believed as a lie and we are to believe is something else, or once Christianity has been turned into a lie, are we going to start saying the rest of them are lies too? Everybody has been debating whether history supports or doesn’t support Christianity, fact vs truth, ect, but what I am curious about is why people need to realize it’s a lie?

Do we all need to realize it is a lie so then we will all believe the same as you? Therefore you get to dictate what we are supposed to believe? Is it the actual religion or is it the action of the followers that makes you convinced we need to believe it is a lie? And if we are supposed to believe this because you said so, then why can’t we demand the same in return? And does it have to be proved by history for people believe to believe? “I won’t believe until I get some proof” defeats the purpose of some of religion, not just Christianity?

Once amazing thing that I think about when debates like this come up, a young man asked Jesus how to get into the kingdom and Jesus replied he was to sell everything off and give it to the poor. The man couldn’t part with his riches so turned away. I won’t debate the rich, poor, ect… but Jesus didn’t sit and debate whether he was right or wrong, didn’t force him to believe anything, didn’t name call or bring him down… Jesus gave him a choice and the man chose. Whether Christian or not, I think a lot of people can learn something from this story outside of the “religious” side (believe in Christianity or not) of it. Do I have to have historical proof to see this story offers a mature way to deal with this situation?
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GinaCPocanposted 13 years ago
When will atheists figure out that they can not convince us that their hopeless lives are better then ours because they have nothing to believe in?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't say that Atheists don't believe in anything. They just based their beliefs in facts. And I don't think they lead hopeless lives. Nor do I think they hold that their lives are better or worse, but instead the same or similar, but only with them no God is required to lead productive lives in society
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When will the believers figure out that they can not convince us that their irrational belief in various myths make their life more meaningful while they deny the reality of the world around us?
  
  It most definitely works both ways, Gina. If you find that those irrational beliefs make you happy, then by all means keep them. Just quit requiring that everyone else support them and live their own lives by them.
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  Lizzabellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have a lot of beliefs and I feel very good about how I let those beliefs guide me through life. Much of this comes with self-actualization. I find it fascinating when I am approached my church members who ask me if I want to be saved. I am saved. I am just not saved the way you want me to be... But no one has the right to make the judgment on what saved is. Someone once told me they thought it was amazing that I had strong morals and good character without being religious. Interestingly, I found it sad that people believe that in order to be a good person one must follow a particular set of beliefs, as if they are to be lost without God. We should live with moral conviction because we care about our world and the creatures we share it with, not just because a book says to love someone or not commit a crime. Granted, some people need that in their lives to try to be better people... And that's ok too. I'm fine with the fact that there may be/are multiple truths. Our mistake here is that we have each made an assumption that only one truth exists. The only fact is we cannot agree, we cannot prove one to be 100% wrong, and I'm sure everyone will keep arguing. It's an interesting debate, it's just sad how assumptions are made about people based on their belief system.
  Perhaps all religions share the same basic beginning? Perhaps different religions went through regional "telephone"where stories were misinterpreted over time.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have an uncle who reads everything that comes his way. He doesn't discriminate. This sounds great to many, but he also reads works about people that offend his religion and he doesn't argue, defend or boycott those who go out of their way to insult that which he believes in. Interestingly, should anyone mention his mom's name in a derogatory way, before a group of people that never knew her and are wont to believe the lies told of her he reacts, curses, angrily defends and, as a good son who knew her to be a good person all her life, avoids talking or associating with those who will not be convinced of his mom's good character. Justified? Maybe. His methods to defend her good name are not the best, but his love for her is unquestionable.
  I agree with Lizzabella. Each person has the freedom to believe or not in a Supreme Being and how each person relates (religion?) with that Being should also be a free choice. Attacking a church or a religion's basis is beneath another human being. We are all the same and should respect each others' choices. I have seen dogs fighting more nobly than the curses that have been thrown at Christians in this thread.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  And what of the curses thrown at the atheists? It is a ball that seems to come from and land in each court.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My response includes atheists. They are people same as me; therefore, I am aware of their freedom of choice as well. I have not cursed any atheist. My Christian faith forbids it and logical thinking demands it.
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  AlMonseesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lizzabella, I can't agree with you more. Your comment seems to me to have hit the heart of the matter and many other matters too.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Assuming and believing you are superior to the rest of us only shows the damage done by your beliefs.
  
  Assuming and believing atheists lives are hopeless shows the massive extent of that damage.
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two4god07posted 13 years ago
I simply believe this debate is a scar on the Christian faith. I believe that when Christians begin to get into these debates, their pride flares up, and the begin to get defensive. When that happens, Christianity loses all effectiveness. You see, we don't share the gospel message in order to be right. We don't defend it because we are proud of it. We don't get angry when someone slams us for it.

The gospel message is one of love. We share it because we love people.

This is something people from all faiths or anti-faiths can appreciate and respect.

We believe people are in danger. Out of love for them, we don't want to see them get harmed. We want to save them from that danger. It's what anyone would do. If you saw a child run into the street with an oncoming truck, you would jump to get the child out of the way, thus saving him. As Christians, we see people standing in the middle of the street with oncoming traffic that they aren't paying attention to. We want to prevent them from being "ran over."

There's no argument to it. There's no trying to prove our cause for the sake of being right. If that's why we are debating, then we all need to stop now for the sake of the very principles of Christianity.

Anyone on here who is not a Christian, I apologize for the way some of those who claim to be Christians have treated you in the past. We are no better than anyone. Each one of us has a history. Some of us have done pretty bad things before we came to know Christ. I for one used to be full of anger and hatred. I was addicted to sex, and was once a homosexual. That's part of my history. I can't change it. I was filthy. The only difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is that we believe in a hope. We believe in a cure for death.

If someone knew the cure for cancer, and didn't share it, they would be considered a murderer. Many would die while they had the resources to prevent it.

As Christians, we were given the knowledge to prevent true death. And because we care, we share it. It's that simple... or it should be.

Many of my brothers and sisters use Christianity as a pride booster for themselves to make them bigger than everyone else.

Paul himself, who wrote a good portion of the New Testament stated that he was the worst of all sinners. He knew he was nothing. He actually considered himself under everyone. He was humble.

To be a Christian is to be humble. We are not better than anyone. Jesus is the only one who is righteous. We can only make it with his approval. And that's the cure.

We are not called to become perfect. We are not called to become good people. We are called to trust Jesus. He will make the changes in us.

Again, I apologize for any cruel or belittling remarks from my brothers and sisters.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary, it is the Christian that is in danger and needs to have reality "shared" with them. They are losing/have lost the ability to reason, to think clearly and to understand what is real around them. We see missionaries traveling to countries that don't want them and will harm them. We see good Christians giving monetarily in sums they cannot afford to remain in the good graces of the church. We see people basing their whole lives on a myth and losing so much of what they could be. We want to help and we will do so with great humbleness as we smash you in the face with legal machinations and violence to prevent you from living the life you want to but that is harmful to you. We know the truth of the universe and will help you (with or without your permission) to find it. We will make you live a good and full life without the irrational and false beliefs you profess.
  
  Do you understand what I'm laying down with this hateful tirade? While few non-believers would ever say such a thing it is all to common to hear this very sort of statement with but a few words changed from the Christians (and other religious believers) around us. Indeed, much of it comes from your very post.
  
  It would behoove us all to understand and truly accept that others wish a different life for themselves. To accept that a different life is OK - to just leave others alone and let them live as they wish. To accept that we are not better or superior because of a different belief system. It's just that Christians as a group do not seem capable of that. Yes, there are a few Christians that find such actions unacceptable just as there a few secularists that say and act in this deplorable fashion. Until we have all learned that no one has the ultimate truth or is innately superior because of their lifestyle will we have discord. It's called tolerance, not only in actions but in attitude and understanding as well.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, spreading your gospel message is one of great disrespect and complete selfishness on the part of the spreader.
  
  No one cares what you believe, you are not doing anything out of love when you make demands others believe what you want them to believe.
  
  Complete garbage. You only do that for yourselves so that you get in good with your God, it has nothing to do with anyone else.
  
  Then, stop spreading your gospel, because that is what starts the bad treatment.
  
  More garbage. Your gospel is not a cure for cancer or is even remotely related.
  
  All you've managed to do is defend and promote the cruelty.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm afraid I've got to express a + 1 to A Troubled Man's sentiments on your post.
  
  If it was all about the loving, Christians would get too it. Evangelism has never been driven by love. If you think it is, we've got a difference of opinion on the definition of the word.
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  KsArt Relevanceposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  FInally, what needed to be expressed has been two4. Well said.
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found this statement very sad
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The Blagsmithposted 13 years ago
Well put Two. All Christians should swallow their pride and regain the humbleness associated with Jesus Christ and leave this flame-warring poster to battle his own ignorance. After all, we have given him what he has wanted so far.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol yeah i'm the ignorant one
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well you said it, congratulations!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Here is a little titbit from one of the links.

The implications of Kersten's discovery are monumental. Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery. Threatened also are the doctrines of obedience to the Church, original sin, salvation through blind faith and the non-existence of reincarnation, etc. Yet these ideas underlie the morality and ethics, (or lack of them), that govern the entire Western social structure, from the legal system to medical health care schemes. It is no wonder that the modern Churches and their secular interests refuse to consider such a proposition as Kersten's!

The Synopsis of "Jesus Lived In India" by Holger Kersten was written by Dr Ramesh Manocha & Anna Potts.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kersten bases much of his research on the Shroud of Turin, which is a fake btw. So much of it is conjectural it's just a bit too far fetched.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I agree. it is a fake, and I don't agree with anything the good doctor has to say about the jesus in India either, I just posted the link to enlarge the conversation and to show where this data comes from.
  We agree completely here.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  pinch me
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
  
  I don't disagree just for the sake of it.
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MissJamieDposted 13 years ago
Me too, not to mention appalling!
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Joe Badtoeposted 13 years ago
I smoked a lot of weed with Jesus and we made up some fantastic fiction which we thought no one would believe and and we still laugh at about it today.

The dinosaurs laughed with us...
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
When the Christian would be convinced that Jesus did not die on the Cross; he survived as he had already foretold and he died in Kashmir, India after living a long life; then they will realize that Paul told them false stories about Jesus.

One may read the following to get to the truth:

http://other9.tripod.com/scr/kashmir.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_years_of_Jesus

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DXCZFRsyl8 a BBC documentary.

http://hinduism.about.com/b/2005/09/22/ … -india.htm

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes … rine-jesus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentar … view.shtml

http://mystiquearth.blogspot.com/2008/1 … shmir.html

http://www.alislam.org/library/jesusinkashmir.html
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Being Catholic and writing in this forum seems to be a bit unpopular, but I'll play the Marine and go first...
  How is it that Christians, in their relationship with God, and not human beings in general, are the angry, hypocritical monsters of society? This can be a trait of any person, not of a group of people.
  This post is getting further and further away from a search for truth and more about slime slinging. The question originally posed defies the Christian faith and, yet, Christians here are criticized for defending their relationship with God!
  Many hubbers have attacked the very root of our belief saying that Jesus' body can be found in India! Have they never heard of St. Thomas who knew Jesus and traveled to India, whereupon asked about his way of living introduced, not the ignorant masses as so many here have insulted the intelligence of those who came to believe, but brothers and sisters before God?
  And, yes, Jesus' body will be found again we He returns. Why would you laugh at someone for believing this. Descartes, Pascal, Euler believed it and they were learned men which seem to be appreciated more in this thread than us unknown illiterates who blindly follow a church.
  Every ill that has ever happened to humanity seems to be blamed on Christians; but, then, we are criticized that our faith is a modern one and we should not believe! We are to be criticized and take it. We have taken it and died for it.
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schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago
No one has come back from the dead so no one has PROOF of God or not so no one can prove it. It consists of faith or not faith. As for archeological proof, I think they're wrong just like 911 was an inside job. I think these 'scientists' just want to promote athiesm!

Imagine learning in school we came from apes. Poppycock!! I told my teacher I objected. And in college my English teacher tried to subject to us that his view on abortion was truth. But excuse me, it's a choice at least, his opinion is not truth. It's an opinion. What a jackass. I think I told him off too.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you object to learning that your very very ancient ancestor was, not an ape, but an even less evolved creature than that? On what was your objection based? Do you have evidence beyond a 2000 year much translated book written by ignorant and barbaric goatherders?
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think certain scientists are either wrong or lie about it because they want people to not believe in God. I heard Darwin was wrong but his ideas are adopted anyway. Believing in apes as ancestors conveintly puts God out of the equation for people who want a reason not to believe in God. There are many scientists that believe in God and believe the Big Bang theory was caused by God not just happened.!!!
  
  I am sure our human ancestors were a little bit different looking and evolved over time. My only objection is that we were created and not evolved from fish,etx.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Paraphrasing, your evidence that you did not evolve from an earlier species is that you think scientists (that don't know you and don't care what you believe) lie so that you won't believe in God, that someone (your priest?) told you Darwin was wrong but everybody accepted his ideas anyway and that believing in evolution makes people not believe in God.
  
  It seems a little odd to put personal opinions against hard solid evidence, but to each their own. Thanks for the reply.
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  KsArt Relevanceposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hard solid evidence? Ha! Comedy! Check out the documentary done by the "Clear-Eye's" guy, known actor, activist, and public figure. More than plenty of learned men and women in EVERY field of science agree that darwinism is no longer a satisfying explanation for how something as complex as our cells developed by chance.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't by chance. It was just part and parcel of nature. Duh!
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seems to me Cagsil that you are not satisfied until you have the last word proving that you think you are always right
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Proving that I think I am right? I'm only pointing out what is already known to any rational person and part of knowable available knowledge of humankind. You don't like the fact it goes against your beliefs. Oh well. Welcome to reality.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well you can continue in your reality and I will in mine because the bottom line is we decide what to believe and how to live are life.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First off Bulldogrocks, you need to seriously get educated. No offense intended, but reality has nothing to do with what you believe. Reality exists free of independent thoughts, will, desires or wishes. I don't live in a different reality than you, just like everyone else lives in the same reality. It's your perception that is skewed, due to a lack of knowledge and wisdom.
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  bulldogrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Go ahead and keep telling yourself that and maybe when you learn to not be pessimistic you will not be so argumentative.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bad perception on your part. I'm not pessimistic in any way, shape or form. I'm a true optimist. I live by positive things, I look at and point out the negative things. There's a difference.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe you are mistaking evidence for proof. Sufficient evidence MAY lead to proof, but more likely it is only evidence pointing to one conclusion as opposed to another.
  
  It's always a good thing to have dissenters in the scientific field, but let's leave out the theologians in the bunch that declare "I don't think that could have happened so we'll hypothesize another method (ID), call it true with zero evidence because I like the idea of a sky fairy". Those kind of "scientists" don't add much to our knowledge base, unfortunately.
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  OutWestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that no one truly knows. It is about faith. Many things have been written about faith as well. They say through faith comes enlightenment.
  
  The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
  
  Which means if you look with your 5 senses you will not find it.
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DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago
Hmm...Change some names around and tell me if this sounds familiar.

http://turoks.net/Cabana/KissingHanksAss.php
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Well well well, And here we go again with the purging of the Christians by the same ole, same ole "Knights Of The Bitter ex Christians" , ya same ole spitting on anyone who believes! Such typical nonsense from the same ones who need proof ! For a religion based completely on Faith! Calling you out again boys !
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  WOW!
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Congratualations Cagsil , and Earnest you have some new followers in line with the same old rebuilt message of "I hate them because they are not like me "......Peace out boys.[And girls}
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When are you going to learn something new other than spewing junk on to the forums?
  
  I've said it before and I will say it again- I hate no one. Please do try to understand and absorb those words.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who's counting?
  
  And why?
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Gentlemen , It is hatred of Christians , denegrating forum posts and a constant barage of spewed hatred of anything god like that describes who you guys are ! Now that really hurts Cags ! But don't worry God will forgive you and Earnest too....:-}
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Ahorseback, you're too funny. One who has no hatred cannot spew hatred.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More like one who has a seared conscience cannot recognise their hatred.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Which god?
Your god?
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ElSeductorposted 13 years ago
Rabgix,

The answer to all of your questions is the idea of "Absurdism". Do an internet search for "Absurdism".

R
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GinaCPocanposted 13 years ago
Actually ahorsenack, he won't forgive them unless they turn their lives over to Christ, and rightfully so. Why should he even recognize someone who spews rhetoric against him. He set a criteria for us to follow, he doesn't play on the fence, it's either your with him or your against him, but he did give us a choice because he wants our love given freely, not forced. He also don't want haters in his house. I wouldn't either, Would you?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Another religious person who lacks understanding of life. Good show.
  Who is spewing rhetoric against him? What him?
  
  Can you prove Jesus was a god outside your religious book? No. I didn't think so.
  If that was the case then no religious book would have ever been printed. So please.
  Be careful who you are calling a hater. I hate no one and you making claims that I do, is completely foolish. Calling someone a hater is actually hate speech, especially when you cannot prove it.
  
  I have said many times, I don't hate anything or anyone and for someone who is fairly new to this community, you should be careful.
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suzettenaplesposted 13 years ago
Don't pick on Cagsil as he is very intelligent, perceptive and open-minded. I've seen his answers to these questions many times, so I know. Learn from him - you don't have to agree with him - just learn from him. He is very knowledgeable.

Now, as I think I've said before, religion is based on faith. To believe in God or Christianity, for that matter, you really need to have faith in your beliefs. I know that Mother Theresa had doubts about God and her faith at the end of her life. It is something common that happens to a lot of intelligent people. I have had doubts of God's existance myself. But, for those who believe God does exist and is real to them.
Is Christianity a bunch of lies? I don't think so. It is a fact that Jesus Christ lived, preached, and believed in God. Was Jesus, the son of God, also God incarnate? I don't know. I wrestle with that question a lot. To answer yes, my answer is based on faith. Was he just an interesting man who preached love, peace etc. When you say it that way he sounds like one of the Beatles. It all depends of your faith and how much you have. Is Christianity a bunch of lies? I don't think so. The Catholic Church for example is a bunch of lies. Their dogma is a bunch of lies, sometimes. I can say that because I am a baptised Catholic, not always in line with the Catholic Dogma or Doctrine.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Suzette, nice to see you again.
  
  Check this out and let me know what you think?
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/83927
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  suzettenaplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil: My response jumped to the next page, so I'm writing again. I answered your question in length. Good question. I can certainly follow your reasoning and logic. It's clear to me! I have always gone with the Big Bang Theory as being a spontaneous big explosion, but I can entertain the idea of a person or god being involved.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can people only learn from intelligent people and everyone else is dismissed as OK to put down? The fact that Jesus did not write anything, only those who believed in Him, does not make Him a lie. If He is not a lie, then His life should be looked at. Those who gave witness to His life also gave witness to His words and He said He is the Son of God. It's either or. No in between.
  The Big Bang Theory is only a theory since none of us were present. No one can give witness to it. The only way to believe in it is through deductive reasoning: its results and effects and still we don't have the whole truth, but people will swear by it and live with it, not as a theory, but as truth. God has to show himself and still people would not believe in Him since what He is asking for in a relationship between Him and us is not convenient to many.
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  suzettenaplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, we can learn from everyone and anyone. Cagsil was being called something unpleasant, and my only point was, he DOES happen to be intelligent and the writer could learn something from him. I was a teacher, but I always learned as much from my students as they learned from me.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I admire you for sticking up for someone whom you believe is being called "something unpleasant".
  I too believe Jesus is being called something unpleasant and this is my drive in answering the posts in this forum.
  I'm not here to change anyone's beliefs, but should someone believe me ignorant for keeping a relationship with God through my Church their opinion is no more or less important than mine.
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  Agnes Pennposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seems me many of the so called logical arguments in this post are based on emotional scars left by people who misrepresented their faiths (Christians, Jews and Muslims - all who believe in the same God) instead of accepting the basic truth that we are all human beings searching for answers and should not be insulted if, in your eyes, we are in the wrong path.
  If the original question was truly about which is the true religion I'd say you are dealing with absolute truths and arguments could be discussed where we could learn from each other. The problem in this forum from some hubbers is the arrogance that no God exists and anyone who doesn't believe is not worth talking to.
  Religion is the expression of a relationship between something small to something bigger... God, science, money, nation, romance. This is why atheists do have a religion since many place science, etc. as their god.
  If I where to criticize the greatest scientists, i.e. the ones who said the earth was flat, at being faulty would science be a lie? If I were to criticize bankers as great as George Soros, who collapsed single-handedly the English monetary system setting off a chain of international bankruptcies, and show his faults would banking be a lie? If I criticized teachers for fondling students in public schools would teaching be a lie?
  We are all "faulty" people looking to relate with each other AND with something greater than us. Something true.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize there's a difference between Jesus and the god of religion, right?
  
  I'll tell you the same thing I've told others- strip Jesus' teachings out of religion, considering it's not supposed to be in there to begin with and eliminate the mystic BS(god of religion) from it, then you might be on to something.
  
  Otherwise, you're just a tool of the religions of this world and know not what you do, just like Jesus said. Btw- for the rest of you religious folk? Go learn more about your precious religion.
  
  You'll find out that much of what Christianity IS isn't even real. It's made up from other religions of the world at the time it was created. Scriptures were tainted by man. And, as Jesus once said- he despised religion and the religious leaders of his day. He even made the statement that they follow a false god.
  
  Yet every person who follows any religion on this planet....is following a false god. Ironic, religious folk cannot put two and two together.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So if I understand you correctly, none of the people who during the last two thousand years, have studied scripture, prayed and conversed with God, and also happened to be some of the finest minds ever to walk the earth, none of these folk actually had it correct, they were ALL taken in by this false religion, none of them understood what Christ's message was.
  
  Until you came along and were put on earth to correct things....
  
  So now you are not only a self appointed censor, but also the ONLY man in history who understood what Jesus was REALLY trying to tell us.
  
  Seems reasonable, after all someone had to come who could put history and the whole of humanity on the right course....
  
  Ironic that his name would be Raymond, and not Jesus (or whatever other name one wishes to address Him by)
  
  Where do we worship you Ray?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now Aqua, I would thought better of you. You're not suppose to worship anything. And, the tone you used in your above post, simply shows that you've never bothered to look into the things which you believe. And, again, you're not any different than any other believer, you continue to make this about ME. This shows your ego is in your way, because every time you bring it up about me, it's a reflection of yourself. So, in essence, you are only making things worse for yourself.
  
  Seriously, you should try seeing beyond yourself sometime? It's a wonderful experience to say the least. Let's take the opportunity to learn, if you're up for learning something?
  
  Who do you live for? Your answer: I live for and serve God. Which is the wrong answer. "I AM" IS God!
  
  I AM is "self" ego. You control all your actions. You control all your thoughts. You control what direction your life goes. You control what you learn and what you do not learn.
  
  You follow the god of religion, then you do not follow Jesus. Period.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Ray for clearly demonstrating that YOU are your own god, and yes, when you worship you, then it is about you, is that too complicated to understand?
  
  Luke 22:42
  Saying, Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but [[a]always] Yours be done.
  
  Guess Christ was elevating himself to godhood status with that line?
  
  2 Corinthians 4:3-5
  Amplified Bible (AMP)
  But even if our Gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden [only] to those who are perishing and obscured [only] to those who are spiritually dying and veiled [only] to those who are lost.
  
  For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers' minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
  
  For what we preach is not ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves [merely] as your servants (slaves) for Jesus' sake.
  
  What you preach Raymond is nothing but new age deception and error, so either you know that and are setting out to deceive, or you are ignorant of the fact, which would be a shame.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, you clearly don't have a clue do you? Always interpreting things, which need no interpretation.
  
  When Jesus spoke to his people he used the words "I AM". Now, if you have any inclination as to what that actually meant, which I described in my previous post, then you would understand that Jesus was teaching people to be GOD in their own life and not about the god of religion, which he claimed was false.
  
  I don't worship myself, which is apparently your interpretation of the words I used. Philosophy speaks about "I AM" as self- ego.
  
  You completely dismissed the rest of my post and started posting pathetic scripture, which comes from the religion that Jesus told you specifically not to fall for. You simply do not get it? Why not? EGO!
  
  Can you see past your own ego? From your posts in the forum, you obviously cannot. You're the one with problem John. You perpetuate what you know nothing about. YOU support the hoax known as religion and it's false god.
  
  What a selfish thing to do. Your dishonesty is now made clear for every other person to be a witness to. Thank you. I told you it was going to be a learning experience. Unfortunately, I already knew this of you, so nothing learned for me. But the experience of exposing your inability was absolutely priceless.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Raymond, I leave you to your new age rubbish, and your deliberatly abtruse and evasive answers.
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  Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I AM," refers to our Almighty God and Creator of everything in the universe, and He is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. Nobody can fathom the wisdom of God because He is Omnipotent and Omniscient, He is beyond human wisdom and intelligence. Only in opening our hearts and spirit will we be able to understand better our God, who is the God of love who made us all. And Christ Jesus, His only begotten Son, was already existing even before Abraham, being one with God and in God. The Old Testament was all about the preparation of his coming, and the New Testament is all about his being one with us, when the "Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." And Jesus was the Word made flesh, that in his passion, death and resurrection, as so prophesied in the scriptures that he will be rejected bay many, he nevertheless, lives in us continues to live in us unless we so decide to also reject him by denying the truth in his words. These very words are our ticket to eternal life if only we learn to understand, obey and live in them through the light of Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior, the True Messiah.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try reading some philosophy. It actually doesn't mean what you're saying it does.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I AM", refers to Almighty God regardless what name others may call Him. Of all the dynamics existing "I AM" is the invisible cause of all that is seen. All speaks of God, not "God is nature", but God is reflected in nature; the after thoughts and handy works of Almighty God.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try reading up on some philosophy.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just because jesus used the words I AM does not declare that jesus is talking about himself, in fact the words I AM directly refer to:
  Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
  
  Now when God says he is, he is.
  
  Jesus also referred to himself as the son of man, which according to your philosophy must mean that everyone is a son of man, which would be correct on one level but when jesus used this term it directly referred to:
  Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
  Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
  
  When jesus said:
  john 10:34.... ye are gods, the word god is spelt with a little g not a capital G and there is a difference. Capital God or GOD always refers to the main God or the Father, little g means a lesser deity, not even a deity actually, just someone with the ability to change things, not create, but change.
  It doesn't matter what philosophy teaches. Plate teaches of an immortal soul which the bible doesn't teach at all, and there's that whole double doctrine thing goin on (which applies only to pagan relgious teachings and NOT the bible teachings btw) So philosophy is inaccurate according to bible perspective.
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  Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The truth in the words of God and the truth in Christ Jesus are beyond Philosophy, Cagsil. Philosophy is based on practical reasoning and even on personal viewpoints which include alchemy, astronomy and philosophical science which all deal with human wisdom and intelligence. And understanding God in one's heart and spirit, as God is spirit. God is greater and beyond human intelligence precisely because He created us all and all the things around us, including the human mind and intelligence, from which we receive different gifts or talents as God so desires to create upon us. Our main purpose and reason for being is to love one another which is in Christ's words, otherwise, we may tend to do evil against each other as we try to be selfish because of our pride, envy and malice towards another as we outdo each other. Makes sense?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What truth? The truth is that you have to be a completely irresponsible gullible individual and require something else to tell you how to live, because you apparently cannot do it on your own. That's the real shame.
  Which is all really one needs to understand their own life. Anything else is just BS.
  Mysticism is how one is intellectually dishonest with self. Nice to know you cannot be honest with yourself. Therefore, any communication with you in the future, I'll know you're not willing to be honest with me.
  Conjecture. Prove it using any other than any religious book. I dare you?
  This statement has some bite to it. However, part of it is false. Purpose is not granted or given, but is created by oneself. As for reason for being? The reason you exist is because you were born. To add any other meaning to your life, you must create your own purpose.
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When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?

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When will people realize that Christianity is all lies?

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