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That is damn strange, James. I'm sorry you're going through this, it does seem punitive.
Thank you, Nicole. Has my post disappeared? I see that Beth copied it but has it been erased from the top of this thread?
I as wondering about this as well. I figured you had deleted the original post, James.
I think many of us were wondering why James's first post was deleted, Dale. I suppose HP didn't like it so someone from staff deleted it. Why else?
Umm...sure it is not a technical glitch, Randy? Haha! "Manual" does not work here in admin does he?
RANDY! Thanks for all you said, my friend. I have checked a bunch of the Forums and as far as I can tell, mine is the only one in which the original post has disappeared! HERE IS WHAT I WROTE:
My Hubber Score is 61; my wife's is 91. I have had 1,424,725 visitors to my Hubs and my wife has had 154,296. For today I beat her (not literally, she is quite well behaved) 1165 to 125; for the week 7442 to 470; for the month 35,608 to 3,257. So it is surely not the number of visitors that makes her a 91 and me a 61. As for activity in the HubPages Community, I have read over ten thousand Hubs written by other Hubbers and left very nice comments on almost all of them. My wife does not read other Hubbers content at all, ever. So that's not it. I have had 41,250 comments on my Hubs while she has had 1,354. So it cannot be because of "activity in HubPages" that she is a 91 whilst I am a 61. As for popularity, I have 3,166 Followers to her 304. As far as Accolades, I have 1856 Useful to her 275; 304 Funny to her 26; 1893 Awesome to her 292; 953 Beautiful to her 220; and 1145 Interesting to her 49. So it can't be the popularity algorithm that makes her a 91 and me a 61. Though she IS a lovely woman.
Not one of my active Hubs has a HubScore below 70. So that's not it. Someone said it could be the Source of my Traffic but nearly all of it is from Google, so that can't be it. Another Hubber noticed my incredibly low Author Score and told me that I should unpublished my weakest Hubs to raise my score. I unpublished my 100 lowest ranked Hub and my Hubber Score did not budge at all. Another said maybe I follow too many Hubbers or too many inactive or low-ranking Hubbers, so I spent a lot of time and eliminated nearly 1000 Hubbers I was following—the ones inactive or with HubberScores below 80 (like mine). I gotta tell you that I noticed having an Author Score of 61 puts me in the dregs of the HubPages writers.
The first two years I wrote for HubPages my Author Score was always above 95, and most of the time I was in the top 10 or 20 of all Hubbers. I complained a year or two ago about some of my Hubs being demonetizied, and the very next day my HubberScore dropped 20 points and has sunk out of sight since. A Staffer told me there is no way any HubPages employee can affect my HubberScore, that it is all automatic. Being a statistician, I know this is not true. A higher up at HubPages told me I was being penalized because some Hubbers I followed had since been banned, but not to worry, the penalty was now lifted. No change. Surely, this is unfair and an injustice.
Let's see if it disappears again, James. At least now everyone can read your opening post.
That´s so unfair James. I hope everything will turn out ok for you.
Thank you Thelma. It is nice to know you are in my corner. :-)
Oh James, I can't believe this is your score. When I met you, you were one of the top hubbers here. Your score was usually around 95-98 if I can recall. I am so sorry for this. I hope it goes right back where it belongs.
It sounds like a bug, a seriously important one for them to fix. You have your wife to compare to; the rest of us might also have incorrect scores and just not have a clue! Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.
James, the notice I see when I came to your forum thread is:
Sorry, the post you are looking for is no longer available on this page. If it still exists you should be able to find it here now:
I did not see your original post, James, but I get the message. There seems to be a lot of issues here that affect our scores and other progress. It seems highly unfair to me that we have to constantly be concerned about these things. With all the work we put into our hugs, giving our time to make sure we write quality hubs, find images, use all the capsules.... it is a lot of hard work and we should be getting more good out of all this, not stress added to stress.
Phyllis Doyle--- It is always a pleasure to read your words. Yes, it would seem to me that any outfit of young idealists from San Francisco would think it paramount to deal with ALL people with fairness and tolerance, respecting diversity and inclusiveness.
I agree, Phyllis, 100%. But then I, too, am an idealist who expects things to work correctly and the world to be as fair to me as I am to it.
Spot on, Laura. I see nothing wrong with expecting perfection from a site that wants to be high caliber. I do find mistakes in hubs of mine and correct them as quickly as possible; I edit, edit, edit to make sure I have quality hubs; I expect perfection from myself when I put something out to the public -- I do not feel it is wrong to expect perfection from the site I write for.
Phyllis, that link also says " 404 Page doesn't exist". I didn't see James' post, so I'm very curious what he wrote that was offensive it triggered auto-delete. Or, was it deleted by "Manual"... I heard he works at HP hq.
If you view the thread in chronological view, it is on the first page included in a response from Beth, 7th post.
Thanks Rebekah, but I can see only this page with Nicole Winter's post 35 hours ago at the top of the page... so strange!
Are you in chronological view mode? Page 1 has Nicole Winter's post at the top. Jame's original post is included on the 7th post on page 1 within Beth's reply. I hope something changes for him.
Thanks again, Rebekah. I got it now, and I learned something new today... the "chronological" view mode!
Now that I'd read James' post, I feel so bad for him. That's so unfair!
I have had aa hub score that ranged from 91-93 for most of my stay on HubPages. I remember it falling to the latter 80's a time or two for a short period, and it fell to about 74 for a day or two once. It mostly has been 93. I do not know why. I have 6 hubs, and that is as much as I am able to handle. I have ads on all of them, and I deleted a hub that was kicked to the curb when someone reported me for causing her to feel guilty about her abortion after reading my hub.
I was thinking that you did have some very controversial, but quite interesting attention-getting hubs, and you-know-which hub really got all kinds of weird and interesting attention. I feel almost certain that you might have been reported for many reasons by many people. You did not delete or revamp your hub(s) that lost ads. Maybe that was the culprit. I do not know.
You are a great, interesting, and attention-getting author. You know how to pull traffic and your style is addictive. "Style" may not be the right word, but something about your skills is addictive. It draws readers. You are gifted in many ways, and I do not know why you have not "blown" up on HubPages. I must say that your HP record as it stands is super impressive--over a million visitors! Man! Maybe the huge number of writers is too much for the staff to really evaluate thoroughly. They depend on hubbers to help with that, and many are not professional enough to do a good job of it.
About a week ago I read that article about your plane crashing. It knocked me off my feet! It was so deep, detailed, and emotional. I felt as if I were living every moment of that tragedy from start to finish. You would come out clean! I was not surprised. WoW!
I wish I could read your wife's work. I will try to find her although I do not know her HubPages name. I will try "Watson." I love the way you compliment her. I get a lump in my throat when men are good to their wives. That is important to me.
I wish you well, and I believe that your reward is "somewhere around the bend." Many blessings!
I agree with you, James, that there is definitely something very unfair going on in your situation. My techie knowledge sucks, but what I can offer you is my moral support and conviction that things will be righted. This is an instance where I wish Simone Haruko Smith would respond promptly and direct this problem to the appropriate department.
Best wishes to you, James! Hope it all gets resolved soon!
I cannot see any logical answer. I have considered everything you've stated, I have looked at your profile, your hubs, your activity, etc. Your content is rich, unique, informative and you have good articles. Considering you've managed to rake in over a million page views in three years and I haven't even generated half a million (yet) and the fact that I've been here for 5 years, and also considering the fact that you have thousands of followers and I only have hundreds, and that I have a hubber score of usually above 90 - it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Something is not right.
I appreciate you taking a look at it, Sparkster. There is, as you say, no way this makes any sense from a mathematical standpoint. I am being punished for having a Conservative Christian worldview. One would think that I would be included under the desire for "diversity" and "inclusiveness" not to mention "tolerance" and "fairness." :-)
It may be an indirect effect - perhaps your hubs are being downvoted by visitors or by the Mturkers because they do not like your content. That would depress your hubscore and have an indirect effect on your hubber score.
Today my hubber score jumped up but it seems to have no real effect on earning, which have been fairly constant. You seem to be getting a lot of traffic anyway and if you are making money and reaching your readership I would not worry too much about your score. It's more of a vanity thing for us hubbers and does not seem to really affect anything.
I have always enjoyed your hubs James and while I don't always agree with what you write I hope you will continue doing what you are doing.
Perhaps 3000+ followers is too many in HP eyes
If he had 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread he could feed them all.
Perhaps a tad too many. Perhaps if it was only 2,999, perhaps it would not have triggered the automod.
"Attention. Attention. 3000+ followers!!! Shoot at sight!"
Rosie 2010! Great to see you here. I think you are onto something. :-)
Hi James, that could be it! Phew! Good thing the automod was not "Shoot to kill"
Seriously though, James, what happened to your hubber score is so strange. You have a lot of support here. Take care
I so agree with Sparkster, something is definitely not right. 61 ????? this has got to be something seriously wrong and unfair. Comparing your hubs and score to my hubs and score, anyone can plainly see that someone is for sure messin' with your score. Regardless of whether this has anything to do with religious beliefs or personal views, I would not accept this if I were you. This is outrageous !!!!
Reality Bites; I sincerely appreciate your kind compliments.
I would say "don't let it bother you," but I know it would bother me too, so I can't say that. I think your score should be a lot higher, and I have no idea why it's not. I don't even know anyone else who has as many followers as you, or whose articles generate as many comments as yours. It's a mystery, wrapped in a riddle. I hope someone on the Hub Pages staff will respond to your inquiries, so that we can all get a better understanding of what is going on. Congrats to your wife, for her score, and for scoring a guy with so much depth and insight. : )
I agree with you that many of the others who are pooh-poohing Jame's concerns would themselves find such a low score disheartening, especially if they had put so much time and work into this site. On the one hand staff says the profile score is essentially useless, and on the other that it affects other aspects of the site in either a pro or con manner. Confusing? Definitely!
drmiddlebrook-- I really appreciate your sympathetic remarks. I keep hearing that the Hubber Score is nothing more than sheer mathematics at work. But I am a statistician. I can calculate in my head a pitcher's Earned Run Average every 1/3 of an inning. There is absolutely no chance that my Hubber Score has not been lowered by human hands--none. Someone is pressing on the scales. And lying about it.
If you are a statistician and understand mathematics, then you will be quite well aware that without the algorithm and knowledge of what goes into the calculation of that score you cannot claim that you know there has been individual, human manipulation outside of the algorithm. And you certainly can't claim it is because of your religious bent.
Is there a factor that says any hubber with a name adding to exactly 552 will be permanently dropped 35 points in the third month of 2013 for instance?
While this comment of yours is certainly within the realm of possibility in some universe, what happened to my HubberScore is more akin, in our present reality, to running a 100 meter dash against ten opponents, breaking the tape at the finish line, and being told the next day that you actually finished last. And when you question how that can be, since you, and everyone who witnessed the event, knows you finished in first place, you are told "it was some mysterious algorithms that no one understands, not even the people who designed them," you say to yourself and the world: "A great injustice has been done!"
There must be some kind of "glitch" that can be found and corrected. You're a great writer, quite active, and there's absolutely no logic to this situation. Hope it is resolved soon.
I'd like to see the official answer myself James, as you are a fine writer! This really needs to be addressed by someone on staff, and pronto!
I agree, it is an insult to you as a contributor to HP.
You need to work a bit more real outrage into that comment, somehow, Randy. Emote! Convince the audience that it really is an outrage and Western civilisation is teetering on the edge of the abyss.
I hope the same thing doesn't happen to you, Will. I've observed you getting a bit perturbed yourself on occasion when things didn't go your way. James doesn't deserve this.
C'mon Randy. If a meteor hit San Francisco, you would find a way to blame the staff for any downtime and probably demand the chair for their charred corpses.
Oh my word... that was funny.
Randy, it was the op that made the joke.
Funny Will. You're just full of it.....er...them aren't you. I haven't blamed this on the staff at all, they are never to blame. I supposed it to be a glitch in the system, so you are defending staff for naught.
Thanks for the good word, my friend.
Sorry to hear that, but the score really doesn't mean anything.
I second that; Hubber Score is not something we control on a Hubber level, it is calculated automatically, so there is not anything in particular we are going to affect your Hubber Score in particular, James A Watkins.
While I do not know what, in particular, might be depressing it, I do know that the following things can depress it:
1. Following a large number of Hubbers over a short period of time
2. Getting a lot of low quality scores through the Quality Assessment Process (Your Hubber Score is strongly influenced by your collective HubScores, and those are strongly influenced by quality ratings, though we're still working through the backlog of Hubs, so if you have a lot of old Hubs, not all of them have been rated, and your Hubber Score will change over time as more get rated).
3. Behaving in any way similarly to a spammer (e.g. publishing Hubs unnaturally fast)
My best advice would be to ignore your Hubber Score (there don't seem to be any quality or resemblance-to-spammer issues with your account that I can see) and it should improve on its own.
There is nothing I can do as an admin to affect anyone's Hubber Score. Everyone goes through the same system.
You advise to ignore Hubber Scores
"Featured Hubs will be given a grace period between 30 days to one year based on Hubber Score. To make Hubber Score a more accurate representation of the overall quality of one’s Hubs, we have adjusted the manner in which it is calculated to factor in human ratings collected through the Quality Assessment Process."
Having a low hubber score could mean more hubs get idled quicker so it appears it does really matter to hubbers.
I also read somewhere that hubber score affects rankings of hubs on the topics pages.
I think hubber score should be fixed so it more accurately reflects what it is supposed to do if it is used for rankings and other stuff.
"In general, your Hubber Score is meant to not only reflect the collective quality and success of your Hubs, but also the contributions you have made to the community as a whole."
Perhaps HP should tone down the 'spammy' penalties that are applied if authors add hubs 'too' quick or make friends too quickly. To have hubber score go from 90 to 60 because of this is draconian. QAP will now pick up 'thin-gruel' content. Staff have even suggested that if writers have 5 hubs that they have been working on for weeks ready to be published, they should spread the publishing out over several days or weeks to avoid this penalty. This is the tail wagging the dog. Surely its time to fix Hubber Score by reducing the 'maybe spammy' penalty!
janderson99--- Thank you for your outstanding comments. You are spot on that the Hubber Score is important. It is a ranking of the writers on Hubpages compared to each other; a ranking based on QUALITY, or so "they" say. This means that HubPages has declared me to be very low quality writer indeed. It is meant to insult me. And it has.
Hi Simone. Doesn't a hubber score under 75 means all your links automatically become no follow? Does that still apply? That used to be the case, maybe it has changed.
Simone Smith— Thank you very much for responding to my Forum Post. Respectfully, the problem cannot be that I have followed too many Hubbers as I have 4 times more following me than I follow and I cut out anyone I was following who had a Hubber Score below 80, OR who hadn't published anything lately. I have never published Hubs "too fast" or been accused of spamming anyone.
I appreciate the advice to "ignore" my Hubber Score. But the HubPages Home Page says it is "very important" and that it stands for the quality of the writings by a particular writer. I don't want to brag but truthfully my writings are as good as anyone's on this site; my grammar and spelling are most excellent; my Hubs are laid out nicely; my images tasteful; my subjects are popular (nearly 1.5 million viewers served; and over 40,000 comments posted); and nothing I have written has been refuted as being untruthful. Dozens of other Hubbers have told me repeatedly that my Hubs are the BEST on HubPages—bar none! The thing is this: I have spent thousands of hours of my life researching and producing these articles, which are top-notch, only to see HubPages tell the world I am among the lowest of the shabbiest writers they have, which is not true and is only being done to punish me for having views that are sometimes politically incorrect.
Until I complained about my by far top money-making Hub being suddenly demonetized after two years up and running without any problems, I had a daily Hubber Score of 95-100 for 700 days straight and the DAY after I complained my score dropped over 20 points to below 80. I complained about that and was told it was a "coincidence" and "should go back up soon." It has never risen above 80 since that day in well over a year. Everyone does not go through the same system. One of your founders admitted to me in February that THERE WAS a penalty on my Hubber Score for "following too many banned Hubbers" but not to worry he removed it and my Score should go back up soon. It has been 2 months and it has gone down further—not up.
James, I am following this forum and reading all posts. I am still stunned that this has happened to you, one of our best writers with quality hubs. It is unthinkable and makes no sense at all. Your creative talent, high quality hubs, and expert communication skills should rightfully keep your score consistently above 95, in my opinion.
Same here. I gave an example, up a few posts, where one person signed up two years ago, never wrote a single hub, and yet has a score of 76. I just can't understand what's happened here. James is one of my faves; he writes brilliant, well-researched, insightful hubs; I always learn something from his articles; and he never fails to courteously reply to every comment. I am following this with great interest.
The Hub in question was entitled "Black Guys with White Girls." It was a short article of observations of American society that ended with a question: "Why are we 20 times more likely to see a Black Guy with a White Girl as we are to see a White Guy with a Black Girl?" I certainly didn't say there was anything wrong with it but only asked what is going on that the ratio is obviously nowhere near 50-50. What cultural factors or media influences might be in play? It started a heckuva fascinating conversation.
I just shut the Hub down last week—on my own volition—since it has been demonetized for nearly two years anyway. But it has never waned in popularity. It has had nearly 300,000 visitors and about 5,000 comments—from all over the world. For the first couple years I was on HubPages, it was easily my big moneymaker, probably getting 1/4 of my visits all by itself out of almost 200 Hubs. I shut it down because I shut down all 10 or 12 of my 285 Hubs that were demonetized to see if that would make my Hubber Score come back up. It didn't.
I am actually writing a book about the comments I got on that Hub. The only people ever upset about the Hub were white girls who have or are dating black guys—some of them expressed outrage that the question was even being asked in public. Black women mostly said it was about time somebody brought this up because they are sick of their men running off with white women and leaving them with nobody. Black guys seemed to think the whole subject was fun and funny and said, "Yea, man. White women are all over us!" Asian people chimed in too. People engaged in the discussion from Africa, Asia, South America, Europe, Canada, and, of course, America. NO ONE doubted that the phenomena is going on in the United States and in Europe, by the way. They differed in their reasons for it which ran the gamut of just about anything one could think of and then some.
Anyway, this led to the first time I ever had any trouble with HubPages Staff. I came online one day to find the Hub was gone. I received an email from an anonymous employee who said that there was nothing wrong with the Hub itself, but some of the comments outsiders had made (not Hubbers) were racist. He/she refused to tell me which ones so I deleted maybe 500 comments that were the least bit questionable, by which I mean not factually untrue but just politically incorrect (IQ test results by race, black on white violent crime statistics, etc.). I resubmitted the Hub and was told everything was now fine but when the Hub reappeared, the ads had been taken off. I wrote to ask why and was flat out ignored. Silence. I was taking in about $40 a month from that one Hub so I wrote back with a more vehement letter. I did not call anybody names or use vulgar language but I strongly stated that I wanted those ads back on there since I had done exactly as requested. The very next day my Hubber Score had dropped over 20 points, down into the 70s, where it had never been since the first week or two I published Hubs. And it never came back over 80 again. That has been going on two years ago now. When I complained about the 20 point drop overnight, I was told it was a coincidence. Then 2 months ago I was told I was being penalized for some unrelated, nonsensical reason, making the coincidence story out to be a lie.
Geez Mr. Watkins that does sound like a provocative hub, based upon the sheer amount of comments. You seem pretty straightforward so I can imagine you can understand the possible headaches from Hubpages end. Hubpages is in business to make money, and if they got heat from an advertiser....or it was a risk?
That does not explain ignoring your concerns, or giving you double talk, later however. I suspect some of it came from the activity you have described though. Deleting comments, unfollowing etc, in an attempt to "right your score" may have been a contributing factor in suppressing it.
I am sympathetic to your cause however, and you do have good cause.
Hubpages should not show favoritism or give the appearance of silencing opinions they do not ascribe to. If Hubpages is personally promoting some, while, at the very least ignoring others to a detriment, establishes a pattern.
Maybe you are right that the Hubber Score doesn't mean anything. One of my kids asked me why mine was 61, when Mom's was 91. I didn't know what to say. I guess it is a ranking of the quality of the Authors by the HubPages Company. I can't see what other purpose it can have to assign a score to each writer.
My Hubber score is 93, and was 100 earlier this week. I have 9600 views total.
I have made 8 cents in 4 days... now usually I would make 32 cents in 4 days... neither is anything to brag about, but something is wrong. I have had 0 views recorded on a hub ppl are commenting on since yesterday... IDK.
There IS something very strange going on with these Hubber Scores! Mine, for the last several weeks, has bounced between 87 and 92 . . . not 85 or 86 or 90 or 91 . . . nope, it's either 87 or 92! Is there actually an explanation for this?! Weird . . .
Gemini Fox--- It is natural for your Hubber Score to fluctuate by 5 points or even 10 over time. Mine has dropped nearly 40 points--and that is highly irregular.
I saw your hubberscore. That is abysmal and unfair. Something have got to give. This score is totally unfathomable!
gmwilliams-- Thank you ever much for your gracious comments. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Is that not what Edmund Burke said?
My hubberscore used to be consistently in the 90s, now it wavers between 90 and 88. I NEVER had an 88 hubberscore in my life!
Your score dropped 40?!?! WOW!
In my instance I wasn't referring to the range though - just that it was consistently one of those two scores (either 87 or 92) for several weeks. What kind of algorithm does that? Doesn't make sense as my score has always bounced around a bit.
Course after I wrote my comment here, it went down to 85. Hmmmmm . . .
If you ever get an answer you believe James, you are a bigger man than me. lol I have heard enemies can keep voting you down, I hope Hp would not allow something like that, but i don't see why they have a down button...so... You know you are a fav of mine, dear friend, and I really hate this for you and know your feelings. Things like this turned me off really getting involved a long time ago, so I just use it for my own purposes. But, good luck.
Simone, you wrote "I second that" when Uninvited Writer stated that the Hubber Score doesn't really mean anything.
If Hubber Scores don't have meaning, then why does HP assign them? If they are meaningless HP should just get rid of them. Has that ever been considered?
I really think that its primary use is to encourage writers to write better hubs. Its like giving a gold sticker to a student, or the use of karma on reddit (which gets you nothing except bragging rights). I am surprised however that Jame's score is so low, because I think that he is one of the better and more interesting writers on the site. In most cases low scores are obviously deserved but in this case I can't understand it either. Perhaps if we all gave James some upvotes his score will go up. I have upvoted some of his articles.
SmartAndFun-- You make a great point: If the Hubber Score is meaningless, why do they exist?! Well said! Thanks.
I'm with Smart and Fun - if HubberScore doesn't mean anything, why not just get rid of it? That said, 61 does seem weirdly low for someone who has been here for so long and got so many views/comments.
James, if it's not a rude question (and feel free to tell me to MYOB), what percentage of your hubs have been idled?
Empress Felicity-- Not at all a rude question. I have only had maybe a dozen Hubs idled out of 285. Not long ago I cut 100 of my Hubs, the ones with the lowest scores and/or fewest visitors lately, in the hopes my Hubber Score would go up but it did not budge.
So it gets weirder and weirder. You're not a spam follower, you haven't been publishing hubs "unnaturally fast", and your hubs are getting enough views not to have been idled, for the most part. Which, according to Simone's summary, only leaves the possibility that your hubs have been graded as mediocre or poor by the MTurk raters.
If you read James' replies you will see that there are a lot of other possibilities. Apparently, he was following a number of hubbers who were banned. He has also had pages unpublished, probably for 'content violations'. At least two of his more popular pages were disappeared recently 'Sexual Revolution' and 'Black Men with White Women' (or titles thereabouts).
Will— Just for the record, any Hubs of mine that are unpublished were unpublished by me recently and totally voluntarily. The two you mentioned were among the dozen of my Hubs that were "demonetized" and I deleted all of those, thinking maybe my Hubber Score would go up (in case having demonetized Hubs negatively affects HubberScore) but alas, it did not. I also deleted about 90 other Hubs on my own, the ones with the lowest pageviews or lowest HubScores, hoping that would raise my HubberScore but it did not. I still have 183 published. None have been unpublished by HubPages Staff.
My Hub Scores are fine. My lowest Hub Score is 70 and my average Hub Score in the 80s--the same as it was when my Hubber Score was 100!
By the way, what does MTURK mean?
It's short for "Mechanical Turk" - Amazon's version of Elance, O-Desk etc. For a while now, HubPages has been paying MTurk freelance workers to "rate" hubs. Until recently, this rating procedure has been confined to newly-published hubs but it's now being rolled out to hubs that were published before the MTurk rating system was introduced.
EmpressFelicity— Thank you very much for explaining this. I had not heard of it at all. This could be part of the problem perhaps. I wonder why HubPages would hire MTURKs to "rate" Hubs?
You mean there is a possibility that you are not being persecuted by those terrible liberals at HP HQ?
A few more visits to the forums and learning center might save some pain. At least you would be in better position to form an opinion as to what has happened.
Oh no. Make no mistake about it, I am being treated unfairly and injustly. And that is especially irksome when the source is Leftists, whose supposed motto is "fairness" and "Social Justice" and "tolerance" and "diversity." Perhaps the MTURKS explain why my Hubber Score dropped all the way to 61 in the last month roughly, but that has nothing to do with the huge drop overnight a long time ago that never bounced back. Anybody can be as smug about it as they want but I'll bet if some of you got up tomorrow and saw your 94 had turned into a 64 overnight you would be upset.
Will Apse wrote:
You mean there is a possibility that you are not being persecuted by those terrible liberals at HP HQ?
A few more visits to the forums and learning center might save some pain. At least you would be in better position to form an opinion as to what has happened.
In three years I have never posted to a forum (although I did ask three questions three days ago), but in this case I think you should step back and think about what you say...... the forum should always be a last resort for those addressing concerns, and in this case.... it was. Administration was the first step (many, many moons ago) and later (a few months back) one of the owners. This thread was begun in response to a lack of action, period.
There are a number of fantastic writers here at Hubpages, and Jim is one of them. Maybe you should read through The Gypsies or Vietnam before making judgments about him as an author. Unfortunately, many of what I consider his best articles were removed in an effort to figure out if they were affecting his score because they no longer pulled in as many views. That was obviously not the answer, but judging by the increase in his author score...... maybe beginning this FORUM was. (Not for me though...... I dropped 6 points for asking three questions; by tomorrow, I should be an "80."
None-the-less, it is important for the contributors on this site to be supportive of each other. Administrators, editors, quality control; they all need to do their jobs in order to make sure that things like this do NOT happen and are not repeated once brought to their attention. Possibly, you should consider that this might never happen to you solely because of this thread. Maybe, you should be saying "thank you" instead of schooling your fellow Hubbers on how opinions should be formed.
How or why someone's Author score drops 30 to 40 points and stays there when their stats and work are far above and beyond the standard is an issue...... unfortunately, we will never be apprised of exactly what compiling that score entails. What I do know is that nit-picking and insults between contributors solve nothing (I've read each and every prior post)and insulting a fine writer because he has had the where-with-all to publicly put his own ego on the line and ask the question is ridiculous. That said...... it's also great to see that support within the community........far outweighs the negativity.
Well, I think it was all worthwhile. James got his score up. My bats enjoyed it. And a little light was shone into a couple of dark corners.
Might as well have a little more Burke, while we are here:
'Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Toasters.'
I should emphasise that Burke did not actually say 'toasters' but I think that is what he had in mind.
Off topic a little, but HP is trying hard to clean up the trash that is and has been published on HP.
With over a million hubs to check and rate, HP simply does not have the personnel to do it themselves. The answer was to set up an MTurk rating system and pay others to do it. It is apparently quite difficult to get by stringent HP requirements and testing to become an effective rater, but the system does work and is being used. It started out only being applied to newly published works, but is now being used to through the enormous backlog of older hubs as well.
There is considerably more information in the learning center and the HP blog on this; recommend that you check it out as it will likely affect you along with every other writer on the site.
I wish this stupid score would just die a death.
Given all the other factors involved, it has minimal relevance with respect to the quality of someone's writing.
Furthermore, rewarding forum activity in the score only encourages the trite and empty comments one sees here with monotonous frequency, which so often are made by those who do not have the first idea about how to write a coherent article.
I resemble that remark!
Sometimes trite and empty are all that's left at the end of the day. (or appropriate for the comment being responded to)
WriteAngled-- I am with you. I would like to see the Hubber Score eliminated, especially if it is based on whims of the HubPages Staff that completely ignore sound statistics, as mine is.
I doubt it is based on whims or personal feelings.
Well, the claim is that the Hubber Score is 100% mechanical, automated, unaffected by human hands, set up in the beginning without knowing who it would help or hurt, as the Rule of Law should be. And I believe there is an algorithm. But I am also positive that a subjective human hand is in play. So, my Hubber Score might be set at "algorithm minus 30 points" for instance, the "minus 30 points" being implemented by a person with an agenda.
**************I think there's only one logical thing we can do to help, as a whole group of us in this thread, to put an end to the idea that the scores are NOT being manipulated, when so obviously James's are: we all need to go out to James's articles, read every one of them start to finish (as many as we can, anyway) and vote them up highly, click on positive feedback icons, and leave good feedback comments, and send him fan mail. If we ALL do this, there's NO defense for the idea that the hubber score is automatically calculated based on the quality of the work. But, we've ALL got to do it to make an impact that's irrefutable, right? Is anyone with me on this?? *****************
How about you start with me?
I am closer to 100 so it will be an easier task.
THEN, when you guys have all helped me out you can move onto James. Obviously I can't help out because I am too busy.
No, we start with James since it is he that brought this to our attention and he that has the most to gain by increasing his score/most to lose by not increasing it!
How about practice on me first to see if it works? I can report back each week, if I am not too busy, or you can just check my profile.
Once you have figured out how to get me to a 100 then you will be in a better position to help James. After all he has been through it would be a pity to raise his hopes without proof.
I only suggest this as a way to trial run the theory, not for myself.
Note: I'm actually suggesting that we all do this as much as possible tonight and tomorrow, perhaps. Only a very short timeframe. We can use different browsers and search engines and computers to read the same articles but look like someone/something else. Sign in once, sign out and repeat. That should make the score go up, too. (I refuse to use Bing, though, sorry--gotta draw the line somewhere). 8-\
Not sure I'm understanding your request. Hubbers have been crying for a year or more for HP to get rid of the trash here (and no, I'm not saying James's hubs are trash) and when they get a program in operation to do that you want everyone to get together and game the system? To throw a monkey wrench into the gears to try and stop it? You're really asking everyone to work in unison to defeat the algorithm that the host of your hubs has put together to improve the site and earn us all more?
No, thank you - I'll abstain.
Just for James, just this once, since his hub scores and actions clearly don't reflect his hubber score. We can't defeat the algorithm, but we can trick it if we pool our resources and focus them on this one hubber who brought it to our attention that such a low score was possible given the circumstances. If the algorithm is honest, his score will rise. If not, it won't--and that concerns ALL of us--affects what we all get for income.
Uh huh. Just this once. Until someone else has their score fall or have a hub unpublished.
I have no idea what has happened to his score, and neither does he. Or you. I will say that I do not believe for one moment that someone has taken it upon themselves to reprogram just to slap James for being a Christian; this is a problem with the algorithm, if there is a problem at all. If there is a problem with the algorithm, best leave it alone until HP can investigate it and find the problem.
Go in and game the system and you'll make it 10 times as difficult to find what caused it, leaving someone else open to the glitch if there is one.
You make an excellent, excellent point, Wilderness! I totally agree! I just got the feeling from Simone's posts that they had no intention of investigating anything because they didn't believe anything was wrong with their algorithm.
Apparently something's amiss because of James's score, but you're right: if we monkey with things, it'll make it harder for them to find out what the glitch was, assuming there is one (which has not totally been proven).
************Okay, I retract my earlier call to action. But let's all be vigilant about scores being weird an call it to the attention of the group again for further discussion, because we're all in this site together, sink or swim. ****************** P.S. I hate doing nothing but waiting, though. LOL Thanks, Wilderness, for showing me the consequences of such an action (aside from getting me kicked off of here, I bet). I really appreciate it!!
You're welcome - I just so seldom find that it helps to interfere with the driver.
There may be something wrong, there may not. Either way it isn't going to help to joggle elbows, so to speak, and mess up their work.
Sure - watch for weird things and report them, especially as the new work begins on old hubs and hubbers. I've reported a couple myself that I thought might be a glitch - HP can't possibly watch a million plus hubs to make sure that zero of them are experiencing something they shouldn't.
We can perhaps help them out by reporting the oddities that might indicate something wrong, and that will help everyone.
A much more sound and logical course of action than mine. Indeed, we all should report the oddities, not assume we're "bad writers" all of a sudden if our score drops, or that something odd is a one-time occurrence: it could be site-wide! Reporting it is the best way to help everyone, you are right. HP better follow-up on the reported oddities with good responses that make logical sense, though, or I will go elsewhere, for one.
If they find nothing wrong with the algorithm they probably won't say anything.
If that turns out to be the case, then James has done something to deserve the low score - maybe his hub scores have fallen, maybe he's spamming or maybe half a dozen other things. If it were you, would you want it blabbed to the world?
In such cases, HP seldom points out just what the hubber is doing wrong, at least not on an open forum.
Oh brother! Yes, HP is so good at admitting when they've made a mistake! Personally, I believe James wouldn't go to so much trouble if he's been doing something wrong.
Personally, I don't know James from Adam. He may be the nicest, most honest person on the planet; he may be an ax murderer in secret. I do know, however, that there are a lot of people that have claimed they have been mistreated that have had to eat their words when the truth finally came out. I'll reserve my judgement simply because of that.
You will, of course, believe as you wish - undoubtedly that HP is grossly and intentionally mistreating James just as it has you.
Where did the truth finally get out Wilderness, if HP is so close-mouthed about discussing it on the forums as you claim?
I've never stated that HP "grossly and intentionally" mistreated anyone, wilderness. But you keep on apologizing for them if you think it will earn you a few more brownie points. You are certainly welcome to them as far as I'm concerned.
You may not believe I have been manually slapped down by a HubPages employee but one of the Founders admitted as much to me. Perhaps if you post a Hubber Score of 95-100 for 700 consecutive days and then see it drop to the 70s one day after having dispute with a Staffer who demonetized your best Hub after telling you there was nothing wrong with it, never to rise again, you will think differently.
I see. The reason you made this statement, "We made a mistake and unfairly penalized your Hubber Score by 30 points. We are sorry and ask your forgiveness. We have reprimanded the employee who did this to you, and your Hubber Score is now a 99, as it should be." makes a lot more sense now.
And check your spam folder for her email
Wrong guy to use this comparison on, James. This one would never have a dispute with an HP staffer.
A bit dramatic eh, Wilderness? What does getting rid of trash have to do with one's profile score? And who's to say everyone wanted this particular program?
You mean you haven't heard that revamping the hubber score is a part of the QAP? I'd have to doubt that.
You're one of the ones crying to get rid of the trash as well, and have made an enormous point that it wasn't done 5 years ago. Well, it's being done the best way they know how. Whether you like the QAP or not, they're trying. Don't complain.
Are you serious? James' profile score suffered a loss long before we heard of the so-called" QAP." If you read his post you'd know this started around 2 years ago. So that blows your theory on that.
I wasn't here 5 years ago so I certainly wasn't aware of how this site operated before I joined. As far as HP doing things "the best way they know how" is concerned, I don't doubt that at all.
Yes sir, I won't dare complain anymore Your Apprenticeship.
Why, thank you! You may now kiss my...foot.
Well, one of us probably needs to. From his post:
"One of your founders admitted to me in February that THERE WAS a penalty on my Hubber Score for "following too many banned Hubbers" but not to worry he removed it and my Score should go back up soon. It has been 2 months and it has gone down further—not up. "
Doesn't really sound to me like 2 years ago - 2 months ago is specifically mentioned.
Did you even read James' OP, Wilderness? It was deleted by someone but he re-posted it. Read when he said it started towards the bottom of his post. The QAP wasn't even in existence.
Actually, I did. Doesn't match well with the later post, does it?
The part I was referring to matches up exactly, Wilderness. He stated his score starting dropping "a year or two ago." This is so stated in his original post and the re-post. What can't you get about the QAP not even existing at that time?
Here's his second post. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/111300#post2369310
Here's the last couple of sentences: "One of your founders admitted to me in February that THERE WAS a penalty on my Hubber Score for "following too many banned Hubbers" but not to worry he removed it and my Score should go back up soon. It has been 2 months and it has gone down further—not up. "
All I see is a reference to a further drop beginning 2 months ago. Not 2 years.
"The first two years I wrote for HubPages my Author Score was always above 95, and most of the time I was in the top 10 or 20 of all Hubbers. I complained a year or two ago about some of my Hubs being demonetizied, and the very next day my HubberScore dropped 20 points and has sunk out of sight since."
This was in both of James' posts. How did you miss it?
Didn't pay too much attention to the 20 points; it happens all the time to hubbers and a reason was given. DID pay attention to the other quote I gave you (did you read it?) that said it has continued to fall in the last two months.
Also did the arithmetic (did you?); if he started at 95 (pretty high score), lost 20, and then fell considerably more I would have expected a much lower score he was showing (64). Doesn't add up to me, does it to you?
Then I look at the "new" OP and notice the accusation that it was all done manually because of his Christian beliefs is now gone; the "new" OP is nowhere a copy of the "original" OP in site of the claim to the contrary. Did you read that? Does it make sense that when James was taken to task for that comment it suddenly disappeared from the OP?
None of that counts, though, does it? Too much fun to blame HP for everything, I suppose.
You're too easy, Randy, and I'm not really interested in pursuing this further. G'night.
No, you're just mad that your theory of the QAP don't add up at all because it wasn't even around when James' score originally fell. But convince yourself you are right. You've gotten quite proficient at it in the past few months. And keep on acting as apologist for HP, it suits you well.
"It happens all the time" that a Hubber who has been assigned a Hubber Score of 95-100 for 700 straight days all of a sudden drops 20 points overnight, and stays down below 80 permanently? All the time? Tell me ONE Hubber you know it has happened to.
I'm glad someone else noticed the discrepancy between the original post and the one James claims to have copied and pasted from the original.
For one thing, it proves that at least a couple of people read posts all the way through.
Unfortunately, though, there has to be a suspicion that James deliberately altered the history in this thread to cast himself in a better light.
Well, tell us oh wise one what was James' crime?
I'm not sure about crime but if someone who writes history pages had, in fact, deliberately altered history in this little matter it makes you wonder what on earth is going on.
I will be honest (remember never to trust anyone who says this, by the way), I have enjoyed this thread mainly for the levels of absurdity it has achieved.
ps: my author score has plummeted by 4 points over night! I suspect the Illuminati.
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone post of horrible mistreatment, get lots of sympathy and end up eating their words when somebody finally figured out what was really going on.
That is absolutely not true. My original post was deleted by someone with the Company, obviously. But if you look on page one, Beth responded to my original post and there it sits in all its glory. When I later reposted my original post, it matches letter for letter.
I am trying to understand what is happening here.
Your OP just disappeared?
Due to some "magic glitch theory" out of one hundred and seventy five thousand hubbers it was just your account that tanked? Coincidentally after hubpages started demonetizing your hubs for ideological or other reasons and you complained?
When you publicly ask for a reason for this, it is said that- just ignore your hubscore it does not matter?
I am sorry that I failed to articulate what happened with clarity. The incident when my Hubber Score, which had not dipped below 90-something since the first couple weeks I was on HubPages, and which was usually close to 100, dropped over 20 points IN ONE DAY was about a year and a half ago. When I complained about it back then I was told by an employee of HubPages that it was a coincidence, these things fluctuate, it will surely be back up soon, and there is no possible way ANYONE can affect my Hubber Score even if they wanted to.
In February 2013, just two months ago, after waiting with the forbearance and long-suffering of a saint, I wrote to one of the owners of HubPages, explaining the situation with my Hubber Score, not really expecting a response. But I did get a response, and it was cordial and quick, and it said there WAS a penalty on my Hubber Score for "following too many Hubbers who were subsequently banned"—whatever sense that makes. I didn't care that the reason made no sense. I was told the penalty was being removed and my Score should rise to its natural algorithm level soon. It was 69 that day. Instead of going up it went down to 61. That is why I posted in the Forum.
The original incident was 1 1/2 to 2 years ago; the letter to the Founder was 2 months ago. Beyond that, I have just been warned about repeating myself and my longer answer to you just disappeared. I am sorry I did articulate what happened clearly.
You are right Randy. My Hubber Score dropped over 20 points in one day about a year and a half ago, and never rose above 80 again since. This was, as you say, long before any QAP or MTURK deal began. However, it has dropped down all the way to 61 SINCE those programs have come in, it seems. I think my account is set on "algorithm minus 30." That is what I think.
Deafening silence. Look, James is a victim here, but who knows how many of the rest of us are or could/will be tomorrow or next month, too? He brought it to our attention and that helps the whole community. Let's try to solve this mystery/injustice decisively by taking action right away to attempt to prove it right or wrong. If we're all reading and the score's not budging, then there's a problem. If we're all reading and the score's moving up, then it was a fluke of some mathematical algorithm we'll never be able to figure out. I betcha my score hits 60 by tomorrow, too, just for suggesting deliberately rigging the game. Standing by and doing nothing is in nobody's best interest. With James's score so low, the changes (or lack thereof) will appear most visibly and decisively. Plus it's only fair to help him out.
Thank you Laura for caring and empathizing and sympathizing. I am glad you liked my Burke quote. Here is another quote to chew on:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
Let's hope that's not the case here!
Seriously, though: something's up with your situation, James, and it's not smelling very good to me. We'll see what everyone else's scores do over the next few days... I'm still standing by to storm the castle, though, because I think there might be trouble in the ivory tower. Certainly it could be haunted, but more than likely you're NOT the only victim of it. Other people just haven't been as savvy as you at catching on to what's up. (another -3 points from Laura's score).
Laura, in all due respect, this is not logical what you are suggesting. Any unusual activity on an account is going to raise a red flag. I doubt very much if James wants mass HP traffic in an attempt to raise his hubber score. Nor do I think that his account is being targeted by HP staff for his beliefs. He has brought it to the community and I'm sure HP is taking a closer look at his account.
Maybe he dropped too many followers at once? Whatever the reasons, James is a very good writer (even though we disagree on many topics ) and crafts hubs that read well. I know he puts a lot of time and research into his hubs. It hardly seems right that he currently has a 61 hubber score. It sounds like the 'spam' penalty hit him hard, unfairly.
rebekahElle-- Thank you for your gracious words. My most popular Hub was shut off one day about a year and a half ago because of comments made by a visitor from outside HubPages. I was assured that there was nothing wrong with the Hub itself. I deleted the offending comments and my Hub was turned back on BUT it was demonetized--and it was bringing in half my revenue all by itself. I complained about it being demonetized and the very next day my Hubber Score had dropped from 97 to 77, never to rise above 80 again--and it had not been below 90, even for a moment, since I was a newbie.
The scoring may be automatic as stated, but I do know this is the lowest I have been, 84 for the moment.
Reasons I feel for my lower score, in my opinion?
I have moved all my idled hubs to my "other" location.
New material I have written does not get submitted here, but goes to my "other" location.
I disagree many times with what staff is saying or what is happening. (ie., my ONLY Exclusive title being idled sometime back which was reviewed by staff and they could not find the reason why it was.)
My expectations are too high for what to expect from a site like HP for honest and precise answers to issues raised in forums or in message.
I no longer use the hubhopper as that seems useless.
I rarely post in forums anymore because of the sarcasm one encounters.
I reckon I could go on, but that should be enough. It does bother me that anything to do with me would be graded in regards to my activity with the community or on the site. I did not join HP to be social. Now that it is mainly a social site, I can see how I would be penalized here.
I write material, get comments and respond to comments always. That should be all that matters as long as my material is "okay".....and from community members as well as staff, my material is okay with content and such. Yet....and yes, again I mention it. I get hubs idled on a weekly basis. Down to 90 from like 140 overall.
Mr. Hyde-- I just want to say that I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this issue. And I agree with you. Is it too much to ask for HubPages to be HONEST with us, with me? Why not just say, we do not want anyone writing on our site who writes opinions we do not agree with--especially if they present an airtight case that makes our editorial worldview look not only foolish but sinister and dangerous?
When I click on that link, I get this:
404. That page doesn't exist.
What is going on??
My Hubber Score used to consistently hang around 97. There were even a few times where I got to be a brief member of the 100 club. These days seems like I'm a consistent 91. I'm starting to wonder if it is because the Mturks are picking on my older hubs.
Btw, I noticed that you don't have any of the discretionary "Good Citizen" accolades that most of the rest of us have. That is indeed kind of odd. Maybe go check those out and do what they say. Maybe also delete your 10 lowest-scoring hubs that are getting zero traffic and in which you have already lost all hope for anyway.
Just some thoughts. I hope your score turns around.
paradigmsearch--- I sincerely appreciate your most excellent advice. I did in fact delete my weakest Hubs--100 of them (out of 285) but alas, my Hubber Score did not budge. Thank you for the insightful thoughts about the "good citizen accolades." I once had all of those I think. As far as Accolades from readers go, I have 1856 Usefuls; 304 Funnys; 1893 Awesomes; 953 Beautifuls; and 1145 Interestings. I am sure somebody has more but I can't say I would know whom that might be.
James, I believe you are a victim of your own success.With nearly 2 million views you are presumably getting regular payouts. Hubpages must much prefer hubbers like me who don,t reach payout.100 Hubbers like me who earn say £15 a year will reward Hubpages with 100 x £15 approx. without paying out a cent.( I forget whether Hubpages get 40 0r 60%)
I know you are a great writer and your Hubber score is not just a mystery: it is an outrage.Hope this gets sorted.Every single response to this post supports this view.
Hold the phone... so there is a chance we aren't getting paid this money that's accruing? I assumed once I hit $10, in 2045, that I would get my $10.
Sadly, that is true Beth. But your great Grandchildren could benefit. Update your will now. I have.
Sh*t! I can't even use pounds or quid here. I'm screwed.
seanorjohn--- Thank you, my friend, for commiserating with my outrage. I never thought of in the perspective you expressed. hmmm . . .
I scrolled through the list of writers I am following, and I "unfollowed" if they weren't active. One guy joined two years ago and followed me, so I followed him back to encourage him, and after two years, he still had not written a hub.
Yet his score is 76.
I am so confused.
I just dropped by both places where the folks I'm following are listed. Neither location includes Hubber Scores anymore! I wonder how long that has been like that? Now we have to go directly to their profile to see.
Silva Hayes-- Right!! A guy who has never published a Hub is a 76 AUTHOR but a guy who has published 285 Hubs, read by 1.5 million people, who has logged perhaps ten thousand hours as a Hubber is a 61.
I've seen that same situation many times!!! (no hubs but 70+ hubber score).
Gotta say it again: I'd be surprised if James were the only victim (or benefactor?) of this monkey business. James' extreme case and willingness to speak out about it is simply the way we found out something's rotten in Denmark.
With sincere regret, I just un-followed a very nice person who has been here 5 months, has a Hubber Score of 65, and zero hubs.
You could follow me instead. I have a thousand hubs and a score of 100... (Don't look at my pic.)
Well, you don't look like somebody that will be getting themselves banned anytime soon. And you are fun to watch. OK.
This situation must be due to a computer glitch; could there be a programming error that caused this drop in James's hub score?
James you deserve to be on top and to stay on top. All of your hubs have been just fascinating and awesome. Never could figure out the what I call HubPage score yo-yo.Mine is here, there and everywhere. Hope you get it all straightened out.
Ho, Humm. HubPages is so wonderfully inconsistent sometimes that it is simply frightening.
On the one hand Simone says earlier in this thread that the best thing James can do is to simply ignore it.
Her reply is given as a response to Uninvited Writer's comment:
"Sorry to hear that, but the score doesn't really mean anything."
And Simone's response is:
"I second that."
She then tells James not to worry and that his Hubber Score should improve on its own.
You see on the other hand, here is a quote from Simone's Blogpost reply, made only 2 days ago to the question, "Does Google care about HubScores or Hubber Scores?"
"Google does not care about Hubber Scores or HubScores, but it does care about quality, and HubScores and Hubber Scores are a reflection of that.
What’s more, HubScores and Hubber Scores affect a Hub’s placement within our internal link structure in ways that Google is liable to notice, so while these scores are not something Google explicitly ‘reads’, they are tied to factors that matter to Google’s search algorithms."
So they do matter then. Or not?
If a long term successful Hubber has a problem that they feel strongly enough about to air publicly why is the reaction not to investigate? And why does the advice given contradict advice found elsewhere?
Why not look into it? For it is obviously not right. Ask some people some questions Simone, or get some of those newly appointed "Content Quality Specialists" to do the donkey work and get some answers from the software boffins. And don't be put off when the software boffins shrug and say, "that's just the way it is". Hang on in there like a Rottweiler and bite it out of them.
For there is something terribly wrong here Simone, and the longer all that the community can smell is the injustice of the situation without seeing that you are looking into the problem, then the more likely it is that what is probably just a little local admin difficulty will grow into a conspiracy theory.
After all, it's not possible that James is being silenced for his religious and political views, is it?
I am beginning to think that hub scores and hubber scores should just be dropped. A hub shows quality and success by the comments received. A hubber shows creative talent and the ability to write quality articles by readers and their comments. Why must we have confusion, mix ups, contradictory statements and ignoring from management? Google will rate our hubs and this shows up in SEO. So, why does HP have to do rate us and cause all this stress?
I do feel that each hub should go through a screening process before it is published -- and a quality team of experts review hubs for content, duplications, proper language structure, spelling, etc. I know that would take time and a lot of effort, but other sites do this and it creates a high quality site with writers of expertise and high caliber that readers want to see more of. I have seen some hubs of very low quality with wrong spelling or wrong words used (their, there, they're), poor sentence structure, erroneous information, even advice that is dangerous to one's health. (ie: putting raw egg white on the skin can be dangerous, even fatal, if there is an open wound or even a scratch on the skin -- look it up on Snopes).
We volunteer our time and creativity to make HP a quality site and this is the kind of stuff we get in return?
James Watkins is a writer of high caliber and his scores should reflect that.
Thank you very much, Phyllis, for your kind comments about my writing. I do agree with you that there is some crummy writing on HubPages. In fact, the other day I saw a person with a Hubber Score of 90 who misspelled a word IN THE TITLE of her Hub. My goodness. :-)
Apparently you are being charged with causing your own low score by the HP apologists, James. They haven't really come up with a viable reason so far though. They seem to think HP is never at fault in these type glitches. Just wait till it affects one of them in a bad manner!
I much prefer the theory that the staff called a special meeting specifically to decide to lower some random writer's hubber score for no particular reason.
Oh, but it's because he's a Christian.
Yet other people who write Conservative Christian hubs are doing just fine.
So far, on these forums I've heard that people were being punished because they were liberal and then those who were punished because they were conservative. I've seen people say their hub score fell because they visited and commented on someone's hub.
In general, it's egotistical... sometimes to the point of delusion... to believe that you are important enough that anyone at HP would even bother to take time out of their day to think about you... implying that they would take time away from business to hunt you down and punish you is laughable.
Especially since if they cared about you enough to do all that, they could simply ban you.
Tin foil and persecution complexes for everyone! HP HQ is apparently rivaled only by the CIA. They shot Kennedy and sunk the Mary Celeste as well.
I also see it as a reflection on the personality of some posters... If you honestly believe there are people petty enough to put such thought into an act against you, then it really is a reflection of your own willingness to do the same if you were in that position.
Your average person? Yeah, they simply don't care enough to chase down people and mess with them for obscure reasons.
Well if they lowered our scores all at one time Melissa, that would look a little shifty, don't you think?
I never thought of that Beth...
I see it now, each week they are going to pick a hubber at random and lower their hubber score... in just 125,992 weeks we will all be burdened with a low score that affects absolutely nothing except our ability to artificially inflate the rankings of other unrelated sites.
I've only got 2422 years to find a new place for that one backlink.
By then I will be a hugely famous author and wont have time for the likes of any of you.
If averages hold up for me, by that time I will have 328 children. So I won't have time for you all either.
Give me one of your babies... you wont even notice.
Hell, which one do you want? I offer in all confidence that after spending some time with any of my children that you will certainly bring them back.
I like the babies and boys are far easier than girls.
Got any of those on ya?
Had 5 and God only chose to give me one girl... Would you like the 19 year old model or the 7 month old model?
There's also a 13 year old model, but he's my future school shooter so I have to insist for public safety that you don't take him if you have firearms in the house.
Nasty. No one likes to be publicly insulted and that is what has taken place. You are wrong, I would never do this to someone else. If I had a problem with someone I would address them directly. I would never press my thumb down on their Author rating to make them look bad. Maybe you think that way but I don not. I told you already that one of the Founders of HubPages admitted to me 2 months ago that there was a double secret penalty on my Hubber Score. All your penny psychology doesn't work in this case. I am a statistician. There is no way an algorithm could have caused this on its own. Based on what? I gave you all the stats right in the beginning. My stats tower above many others who are in the 90s for their Author Score. My Hubs are as good as any on this entire site. You have no call to be rude to me. I have never been nasty to you. HubPages Staff wrote to me 2 years ago to say they did not like the comments outsiders were leaving on my Hub. Is that egotistical or delusional or tin foil hattish? How did they find the time to READ the comments to decide they didn't like them if they are to busy to notice insignificant little ole me?
Horatio Plot— I appreciate your insightful comments. It is quite interesting that you found Simone, a HubPages Staffer, writing a few days ago these words:
“HubScores and Hubber Scores affect a Hub’s placement within our internal link structure in ways that Google is liable to notice, so while these scores are not something Google explicitly ‘reads’, they are tied to factors that matter to Google’s search algorithms."
You also wrote: “If a long term successful Hubber has a problem that they feel strongly enough about to air publicly” to which I want to add that I held my tongue for a year waiting for this to change and tried everything I could to rectify the situation. The last thing I did before going public this way was write to one of the founders of HubPages, in February, to let him know what one of his employees had done. He admitted to me that a HubPages Staff member put a penalty on my account that affected my Hubber Score negatively—that he promised he had removed for me. Keep in mind a lower level Staff Member had told me that there was no way an employee could possibly affect my Hubber Score even if they wanted to—it is all automatic. When I asked what the penalty was for, I was told it was for following too many Hubbers that were subsequently banned. That frankly made no sense to me but I was happy that my score would soon be back up above 95 as it had been for 700 straight days before this problem developed. But it did not go up—it went down!!!
Ps: You mentioned “those newly appointed "Content Quality Specialists".” What is that?
In answer to your question;
At the bottom of the page there are now an editor and 3 Content Quality Specialists listed. All are, I believe, new posts. I think this may be a good thing. I hope they are there to help push HubPages toward the green and pleasant grassy uplands of hope and Googleness that lie on the other side of the thick, slimy sea of trash and Indian Aunties that block the way.
I do however note that Derek Gulbranson is no longer listed. I hope that is apropos of nothing as he seemed a good, honest addition to the team. Hum.
From what Simone has said in various places, I gather that all the scores matter. The only time she has said they don't is when someone questions how they are calculated or why theirs are not as high as expected/not as high as someone else's (who may have written 0 hubs in 3 years).
I started following this thread and find it .........odd. I'm wondering if James's earnings has been affected by this sudden drop a year ago. That would significantly raise a flag for me. I pray this is resolved soon.
I bet all of us on this thread will have a lower score tomorrow. Let's see.
James, sorry this is happening. I don't get the "ignoring the score" advice. If Hubpages is going to assign a composite score, it should mean something. When people see your score, they are getting the wrong idea about your work and your contribution to Hubpages. Of course, people in the Hubpages community that know your work know better, but many do not. It's flip to be told "forget it; don't worry about it." I hope it's worked out in your favor and worked out soon.
Bibowen— Thank you very much for your nice note to me. You wrote:
"If Hubpages is going to assign a composite score, it should mean something. When people see your score, they are getting the wrong idea about your work and your contribution to Hubpages."
My thoughts exactly. I sure appreciate your kind words.
This thread would interest anyone studying mass hysteria.
The real issue appears to be about content violations and the effect that it has on hubber score but it is not addressed.
If it is about content violations (and James has provided incomplete evidence so it is hard to be absolutely sure) a few of the questions are:
Should content violations feed into Hubscores?
Who decides what content is acceptable? I am guessing HP is happy to act as censor for Google, which is happy to act as censor for it's advertisers.
Should anyone be penalized for following banned hubbers? This sounds like guilt by association and downright wrong.
That sort of thing...
What kind of content violations are you speaking of, Will?
That is a good question. James originally told us about a couple of interactions with HP staff concerning penalties which the staff promised would be lifted. The staff also assured him that his hubscore would rise again, eventually.
That was in the first post in this thread (which has now disappeared).
The reposted version omits a few points or at the very least changes the wording. This is why I think the evidence is unreliable. At the same time content violation looks like the culprit, as far as his low score is concerned.
Is it fair? Who knows...
Will— Just to clarify, my original post disappeared, which is quite irregular—that ought to tell you something; but I reposted it EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD. There is not a word missing and no words were changed, contrary to the reportage of some. I cut and pasted my original; I did not change a word of it.
If HP really is penalising people for following banned hubbers, then yes, that is unfair.
With regard to content violations: once the content in question has been unpublished, you'd expect someone's hubberscore to go back up fairly quickly. Another thing: the timescale between someone's content being found offensive and said content being unpublished is (you would think) pretty short. James' hubberscore has been low for a long time now. So that explanation doesn't fly either, in my opinion - especially as he's told us his individual hubs all have high scores.
Calling out inconsistencies does not mass hysteria make.
EmpressFelicity-- Thank you so much for all that you said. It seems to me so simple. HubPages should be honest and declare: "We made a mistake and unfairly penalized your Hubber Score by 30 points. We are sorry and ask your forgiveness. We have reprimanded the employee who did this to you, and your Hubber Score is now a 99, as it should be."
OR: "We are sorry. Our software had a glitch in it that you were kind enough to point out to us. We have fixed the problem and now your Hubber Score is a 99, as it usually was before this glitch happened."
OR: "It is true we lowered your Hubber Score by 30 points. Because we don't like you and we don't like your views. There. We are not ashamed to admit it. Please take your articles elsewhere."
As I posted just a few message up, Hubpages has made this statement: “When the Hubber score is below 75 all links in all hubs by the author will have nofollow applied (which means no, or very little benefit in search engine rankings).”
It makes perfect sense to me that James would be very serious about it, as should we all. What's the point if none of his writing is recognized by the search engines? It's like his hard work is disappearing into a black void; it's not being found and read and it greatly affects his income. And to add insult to injury, it's the same work that, in the past, was recognized as superior!
Will, I totally agree with your statement, "Should anyone be penalized for following banned hubbers? This sounds like guilt by association and downright wrong." Besides, other than (as someone else mentioned here) clicking on every single person you're following regularly to make sure that they're not banned is so completely impractical and counter-productive for HP--wouldn't they rather have us creating content they can earn money on?
The problem is there's only James' word that following banned hubbers is a problem, as far as I know.
And James lives in a world where HP have already come for the communists and the catholics.
Just curious, do you have that saying in the UK... 'a dog with a bone'?
Lots of dogs with lots of bones around here.
Im not allowed to say anything. I keep getting banned at the drop of a hat.
I plan my bannings for days I'm not going to be online anyway.
I store up all my non-sense and personal attacks for the day before.
Haha, I'll have to remember that trick, Melissa!
I just spout off whatever I honestly think whenever I think it. Hopefully I'm factual or I don't say anything. I've never been banned, and I hope I never am. (And I hope I never do/say anything to deserve it, either!)
Wait, now, whatever's going on, James seems to be in the right: there's monkey business here related to his hubber score, which they've said will affect our income over time. Don't blame the victim without all the facts, either (like proof he's not a victim).
But victim of what? Victim of publishing content that is too controversial for Google ads (what kind of content)? Victim of associating with dubious hubbers (dubious how?). Victim of ignorance? (what rules, guidelines was he ignorant of?) Victim of delusions of grandeur? (Burke and Martin Niemoller, for heaven's sake).
This is too tempting a microcosm with too many ironies. I remember reading a few of James' pages a couple of years ago. One of his big things is the evil of minorities that have a sense of entitlement. Yet here he is posing as a persecuted minority (then they came for the white male christian conservatives) and demanding HP bend their algo to suit his sense of what he is owed.
Down, Down - They are all Going Down - even the Elite 100 club - very rare species now - check a few profiles (even Simone, Jmmythejock, Relache, Kathryn Vercillo, Lela Davidson, etc. all plunged ).
We have all been bad, very bad indeed!
See the former 100 club glory here:
Go to the profiles => most down. Ho Hum, What a Bum
PS Chuck is the only 100 that has survived!
I've never been able to figure out how the score is tabulated, and I guess I'm not alone in the confusion.
James, for what it's worth, I've always enjoyed your hubs!
I don't know how you do it, Habee, but you have obviously faked that 100 on your avatar. It never changes!
Lol! Yes, I'm actually a tech wizard. (Great BIG LOL!!)
It's easy, really. Just print "100" on a white piece of cardboard, hold it up, and have someone take a pic. Use the pic as your HP avatar.
Thank you Miss Habee! I appreciate your concern and empathy. :-)
A few copy and pastes:
'Down, Down - They are all Going Down'
'any outfit of young idealists from San Francisco would think it paramount to deal with ALL people with fairness and tolerance, respecting diversity and inclusiveness.'
'All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.' (I don't think Burke had hubscores in mind)
'I bet all of us on this thread will have a lower score tomorrow. Let's see.'
I left out Randy's stuff.
I see you avoided replying to any of the points I made.
I think we need a proper Hub Commission to get to the bottom of all this. So many allegations. So many insinuations.
I am saying this mainly because I am now a little drunk and the cat is bullying me. If I can't work out what it wants in the next five minutes the consequences could be terrible.
"Burke - hubscores in mind".... gave me a genuine lol.
Might I request that the following terms and acronyms be defined?
QAP- I'm assuming this is the Hubpages "Quality Assessment Program"......... if so, how has it been implemented and by what standards are scores being appropriated.
and lastly.......... what makes an individual or even group of Hubs spammy?
Consider this. I randomly selected two hubbers that I followed long ago, neither of whom are active at this time, and did a quick comparison.
Annabelle74 has a Hubscore of 1.
Annabelle has written 16 Hubs, has 286 followers, and has 4 accolades.
Ziad.N has a Hubscore of 67.
Ziad.N has written 2 Hubs, has 1 follower, and has 1 accolade.
I wish I had more time to do more random comparisons, but this one, selecting one from the beginning of my list and one from the end of my list, yielded this obvious inconsistency.
There is a BUG in the system. I hope it can be located and corrected.
Yes, there is either something buggy or something fishy. No way should Mr. Watkins be a 61. Oh wait, he's now a 62, that lucky guy. Apparently the forum participation he's contributing here with this thread has raised his score!
Hubber score is very important but it's meaningless even though it drives link placement, promotion and publicity so you really shouldn't worry about it. LOL.
Now at 64!!! James, do you believe in miracles?
Rosie2010— Yes! I do believe in miracles. Look at me go! My Hubber Score is up to a 70 now, only 6 points below a good friend of mine who hasn't been on the site once for 3 years! :-)
Supporters obviously matter to you, James.
I suppose that if you can get a big enough tribe together you won't have to worry about the facts of the case. And we will all remain ignorant of what actually happened.
There are definitely some huge inconsistencies. Here's another one. (I hope these writers don't mind my mentioning them; I'm just randomly choosing among people that I follow).
Both have been inactive recently. Both are really good writers. Compare hub scores.
Triosol -- Hub score 1
Latest hub 2 years ago
Bail Up! -- Hub score 93
Latest hub 16 months ago
A hub score of 1-5 is not really an inconsistency. That is an account that got slammed for spamming or over-following. Which has nothing to to with their hubs.
“The only detail to pay attention on is your Hubscore (a kind of quality score assigned to all accounts). You need to have a quality score of 75 or higher if you want the links inside your hubs to be followed.”
http://www.dailyblogtips.com/making-mon … -hubpages/
written by Daniel Scocco, the guy behind DailyBlogTips and online marketing program, OnlineProfits.com.
If you follow that link, and scroll down to the comments, you will see that one of the comments is from a Hubpage employee who did not correct the statement I quoted above.
Reading Simone's post on page 1, I find her response non-committal as far as there being anything done at all in this case. Perhaps I missed something?
If so, so did I. I have no doubt that someone will take a look at this, but as far as doing something I think no-committal is the best that could be hoped for yet.
Perhaps I did, too, then....
I just tried sending James an email and, after typing around 30 versions of the Captchas provided, it still would not let me email him. Also, the fan mail I sent him was not posted and it has been more than 10 minutes since I submitted it.
Maybe what they need is to implement Bugzilla or another (non-free) bug-tracking system for us to enter bugs in, rather than trying to pick bugs out of running discussions such as this one.
He may have his contact info turned off and his comments won't show till he approves them, Laura.
I did not get the email but I did get the Fan Mail and it is much appreciated!
Good Hubbers deserve justice! You've been dealt an injustice here that's probably also happened to many other good hubbers who have simply not realized it. This should scare all of us.
Glad you appreciated the fan mail, and I'm enjoying your articles!
Re-reading it again, no, you didn't miss anything, Randy. It doesn't sound like this is any important issue to them.
I just wonder how many other hubbers' scores are incorrectly represented.
There have been so many stats glitches lately that it's not difficult to suspect other problems may exist also. I've observed some hokey stuff which only affects some hubbers in my time here, despite the naysayers to the contrary. All systems have their flaws and HP's is certainly no exception.
If HP can show James was at fault in some manner, then okay, but they haven't done so thus far. I tend to take James at his word as I see no reason for him to lie about it.
But he's not saying it's a glitch...
He is saying that the man is purposely holding him down...
That's a bit different.
Several of us has suggested a glitch being the problem, Melissa. Only James is privy to his conversation with staff and I've never suggested otherwise. His problem may consist of either or both of these things and only HP knows for sure. Or doesn't know for sure, as the case may be. The latter would not surprise me in the least.
... the day you learned to make the guy with the sunglasses...
I have no problem at all with the glitch theory. HP has glitches... every site does.
However a glitch isn't a persecution, it doesn't require long "They came for the Jews" statements and it certainly doesn't require a "Stop unfairly, artificially depressing my Hubber Score!" thread.
He is implying a conspiracy... which is fine I guess... but he's gonna need to give me a better reason than "Because I am Christian" for me to think his claims have any validity at all.
And even when people truly are out to get somebody (in which they simply could have banned him) there is generally a reason. So if it is a vendetta (LMAO) then I'm interested in the Why.
It's like one of my kids failing a test and telling me it's because the teacher hates them... Yeah, it never works.
What was I thinking? I suppose HP wouldn't dare hire any imperfect humans for anything. Yeah, perfection in everything they do! Might as well move their headquarters to Disneyland. I've had dealings with some of their staff before and it was not very satisfying at all as far getting info was concerned. But you're welcome to your own view of them, of course.
So you honestly believe that his score is being manually altered by a staff with a vendetta for absolutely no reason other than he is a Christian?
That's your take on this?
And all of my communications with staff have been perfectly fine and all of my questions have been answered... completely and quickly.
I've never once stated this,have I?
So you assume they treat everyone in the same manner? Wow! I had no idea you had so many contentious conversations with the HP staff. What, may I ask, were your contentions of HP being in the wrong during your communications? Or were they simply friendly conversations to begin with? It makes a difference you know!
I have no reason to believe that I am in any way special in their treatment... especially as I had no idea which staff I was talking to and they had no idea (I assume) which person they were talking to.
Actually a few of them were contentious... Somewhere along the lines of "OK, Why the hell did my percentages just drop 20 percent? The answers were basically -nicely phrased- "Because you are an idiot and here's why"... And yes, they were right in those instances. So I actually listened to their answers and stopped being an idiot in the same way.
There were also quite a few... "Why the hell are you all doing it that way?" and "There's a problem here" and even a couple "Don't ya think you should maybe let someone know that?"
Many of the conversations ended up being incorporated into the FAQ. Sometimes *gasp* they even changed stuff that we had talked about... probably because more than just I mentioned it.
However, I never thought that they were under any obligation to change something just because I thought it was wrong.
So you're saying that you DON'T believe that HP staff has a purposeful vendetta against James? Cause I see you doing some dodging there.
Please point out where I said as much, Melissa. I have no first hand knowledge of a vendetta although it wouldn't surprise me in the least. There have been some petty people in the employ of HP before you showed up.I'm more of a "the system is screwed up and James is the fall guy in it" guy. And yeah, you really got down and had it out with staff I'll bet.
I communicate with everyone in my life exactly like I communicate with people on the forums. I've found that when I am an ass, people are asses back. When I am not an ass, people are not asses back.
Most people learn that by the time they are 10... not sure why you haven't learned it yet.
I've noticed the whole "before you showed up" thing... Well, if it was that long ago, maybe it's time you let it go. Petty grudges... while apparently excessively amusing to you... aren't good for you.
Persecution complexes aren't good for anyone either.
However if everyone wants to live their lives miserable because they think that everything is shit and everyone is out to get them, then it's on them. As stated before, it's a constant source of amusement for those of us who put that energy into other pursuits.
But no one really takes you seriously anymore anyway Randy... So please preach on.
Ding-ding-ding: Melissa and Randy, please step back into your corners. It's not worth it, guys. Fight's over--nobody won. TKO of both of you simultaneously.
Unfortunately, I'm not one of your home schooled kids--and I do indeed pity them-- you can browbeat and get away Scot free with it. And I am indeed puzzled as to why you think you know what "most people" do. And I'm quite sure I've seen you acting an "ass" on more than one occasion. So may I assume you are only 9 now?
And maybe you just don't get it because you weren't here and privy to the events ?
So now you're taking it upon yourself to speak for everyone, Melissa?
By the way, you still work for HP, don't you?
Aww Randy, out of things to say so the best you can do is a personal attack about my children?
When I'm an ass it doesn't surprise me when someone is an ass back... and I don't whine about it. Responsibility for ones own actions is a nice thing to have.
And I never worked for HP... where on earth did you get that very wrong assumption at... how silly.
Of course it wasn't an attack on your kids, I merely have empathy for them. So HP doesn't pay for MTurks to rate Hubs? Nor do they have a test one has to pass in order to get paid for the service?
No need to "have empathy" for them, they are all quite happy. Thanks for your concern though.
No, HP doesn't pay MTurkers to rate hubs. Mturk pays raters to rate hubs. I know independent contractor and subcontractor are difficult concepts to grasp, but do try to keep up.
And yes there is a test, one that you could always take and fail miserably if you like.
Now please do calm down, I am concerned about your health.
And thanks for your concern, Melissa. I assure you I think this is a hoot. So I was mistaken that HP pays for having someone rate hubs? But technically not you because the money is paid to someone else and then they pay you? Right....... Big difference alright.
Just for the record, I never said it was a conspiracy and I do not think so. I believe ONE employee did it by him or herself and that a conspiracy does not make. I do not believe any meeting took place. You said you were banned twice. Well, that has never happened to me. How did you get banned: by an algorithm or by a person? You mean a person took such notice of you as to ban you? Twice? If a Staffer can BAN you from the site, they surely can lower your Author Rating. No? Why not? Are you saying they can't or they wouldn't?
Laura - Sorry to report that you have been expelled from the 100 CLUB - Even Chuck has gone! A mere 97. I just went up by 2 so look out!
I know! I saw that (and I've been at 100 for weeks). No surprise to me. Sadly.
"Following too many Hubbers who are subsequently banned" makes no sense to me either.
How would I have any control over whether or not some other Hubber was banned after I coincidentally began following them? How would I even know about the ban? Should I go to my list of people who I am following, and click on each one individually, and see if they are still active or if they are banned? And if they are banned, then I should unfollow them? This get curiouser and curiouser.
I had no idea that if a person was banned that we could be penalized for having followed them. Guess I better take a look at who I am following! What has happened to James Watkins's hubber score is a mystery. He certainly deserves a higher score for well written and well researched hubs.
Why can't we be notified if a hubber is banned and at some point we followed them? We are notified if we have linked to one of their hubs and it is now unpublished. It would seem that since one is done, the other could also be accomplished. Does anyone else think the same?
Or, if they are banned, HP could just eradicate their followers?
That is also a good idea Reality Bytes. I went in yesterday after reading this hub and unfollowed a bunch of hubbers that had not written anything in 10 months and even longer. My hubber score rose up by several points from yesterday to today. Coincidence? Who knows...
There you go being logical, Reality Bytes!
By demonetized, I am guessing you mean that there were not considered fitting pages to carry ads which, sadly, in the grossly commercial world that we inhabit means they were not considered fit pages at all.
I would reccomend some Chomsky, James. He has a lot to say about the pernicious role of advertisers as editors of the media.
Chomsky probably has something to say about hubscores too.
The pages remained published but without ads. I found that a pro-life Hub is demonetized while pro-abortion Hubs have ads. Same with other political issues. Anything not politically correct, such as pointing out the true nature of the ACLU, for one example, was demonetized. That only applied to maybe 10 or 12 of my Hubs out of 285. I had no problems except on political Hubs, where if I expressed what would have been the orthodox view for over 1900 years, it was now deemed not fit for ads.
I was teasing you a little with the Chomsky, but the main point is valid. If you write on Hubpages mods will inevitably have money-making in mind. That means they don't especially want to carry controversial pages with views outside the mainstream because advertisers don't want their products on pages that upset significant numbers of people. This especially applies to pages with any kind of sexual content no matter how proper. We are catering to an audience with significant puritan leanings, after all.
In fact, if you want to make money you need to write pages that contribute to something, somewhere getting sold. Advertisers want to profit from their ads. Google wants advertisers to profit. HP wants advertisers to profit.
Referring back to the implication that we shouldn't worry too much about our hubber scores, see the statement quoted below made by a Hubpage staffer. This was about 5 years ago; I wonder if the policy has changed?
“When the Hubber score is below 75 all links in all hubs by the author will have nofollow applied (which means no, or very little benefit in search engine rankings).” Posted by Pauldeeds
Coincidentally James, your score has went up 7 points already.
I've noticed that the writer's Hubscore has more to do with how much they participate in the forums, asking questions and commenting on other hubs.
The quality of the work of the author seems to have very little to do with it. James has been active in the forum and now his hubscore goes up. Crazy, but I've noticed that is how mine goes up and down.
Barbara Kay— Thank you for making that interesting point. I have never been a person much interested in the Forums. If that lowers the Hubber Score, then it only began doing that a year or two ago. This is my point: When my Hubber Score was in the high 90s for many moons I was doing nothing differently from when it was in the 70s. As my first post points out in detail, there is nothing statistically that makes sense for it to be "only algorithms." My statistics are relatively fantastic. And my Hub Scores haven't changed much. Only my Hubber Score, the value assigned to my person, has changed and changed dramatically and negatively.
I get that everyone wants a score over 75 and this user's should not be this low.
I also believe the score is fully automatic and nobody can manually "ding" one user for whatever reason.
So I guess either there is a glitch or something the user is doing in all innocence is getting penalized.
Hi James. I have read all these posts with interest and looked at your profile page, topics etc. When I finish typing here I will become another genuine new follower.
I don't know if these observations are helpful, but I have spotted a few 'quotes' that might be setting off alarm bells in an automated scoring system. It could be a case of 'guilty by association' due to your fan mail. For instance ....
"Hello I saw your profile and became interested in knowing more about you for a sweet relationship.my name is Anna,I will appreciate if we get acquinted as soon as possible and my e-mail address is ..." She says she loves you (in capital letters!)
Sweet little Anna has no hubs, but she loves you and has sent an address. lol. Mind you, she only joined 8 days ago - still there might be similar fanmail going back years. I didn't bother reading very far.
Another contributor to your low score might be people like David, who is also featured on your most recent fanmail page. David says:
"Dear Friend, Based on the information and recommendation satisfactorily gathered concerning your personal profile, I hereby wish to acquaint you with a business proposal that will be of benefit to both of us. I represent an heiress family (their father is dead since last year) which would like to invest their treasure in your country in order to invest it in various projects such as in real estate and business."
David is talking $12 million, James. Perhaps you won't need to make money from HP anymore. lol.
My hubscore dropped significantly from 99 to I can't remember what, around the same time I received an offer like the one David's presenting to you. I deleted the fanmail and my score started climbing again. Might be coincidence.
Or perhaps if you read back through your fanmail messages you might find some earlier posts that also contain 'warning words/phrases'.
Does your wife have love letters and inheritance notices in her fanmail?
Just a thought.
LTM, that was so nice of you to go to those lengths for another hubber.
lol. I just thought what I saw was interesting and I'd share it. I confess I didn't actually go to any effort to specifically help James. Anyone with that many hubs, followers etc doesn't need my help, that's for sure.
I'm just cursed with an analytical brain that demands I seek answers to questions. (A bit like some people are cursed with a propensity to ignore facts or turn their backs on challenges. Glad I'm not one of them.) Can't do much about it, despite trying to sit on my hands and do nothing.
When I noticed his score dropped seemingly inexplicably, it sparked the question, 'Could it be linked to fanmail?' as mine seemed to be. Had to go and have a look.
Thank you for these valuable tips. It never occurred to me that what someone wrote in Fan Mail to me could affect my Hubber Score. I guess I have never turned down a single piece of Fan Mail, simply wanting to be polite. As far as I am concerned, if I am to be penalized for what some stranger wrote, all my Fan Mail should be deleted.
It really comes down to whether you are interested in establishing the truth of why James' score fell or simply want to get yourself into one tribe or the other.
Your tribe Randy, is the 'we hate Hubpages'. Writers that Google have stopped loving are the most usual members of this tribe.
Another tribe seems to be James' tribe of 'lets construct a comfortable history so that we never need feel bad about anything'. You will need to read James' pages to get a sense of what that tribe is really about, although his actions in this thread are a clue.
Yet another tribe is 'I want to participate in a thread but I don't have a clue about the issues because I hate reading long posts'.
Simone was given ample opportunity to explain why James' profile score was so low, Will. And my understanding is that James has asked several people on staff about the problem. I'm of the tribe that thinks if HP doesn't want wild theories floating around it should straighten the problem out themselves.
Once again I've never stated I hated HP, Will. Just because I want them to deal fairly with the members and writers on here it doesn't mean I detest the site at all.
And then there is your tribe, Will. Pygmies unless I miss my guess.
Then there is yet another tribe of people who are just laughing their butts off at the whole thing... for reasons that would be completely incomprehensible to the posters that we are laughing at.
We don't say anything because causing someone else to go into a spontaneous apoplectic fit is frowned upon by TPTB.
I'm trying to give up smoking, Melissa, so I need a stress-free diversion. My head seems to be full of bats (something is whooshing around in there).
Also, I have recently become interested in the way that the internet is contributing to a rise in unreason. It seems to be the main reason that so many people in the US are unable to dismiss the idea that Obama is the antichrist, for example. If enough people write the same nonsense, over and over again, that nonsense somehow becomes true for the average reader.
Giving up smoking is wicked tough, although honestly I found these forums made it worse when I was trying.
I think it's more of a factor of people with similar...er...personality issues finding others like them. In normal society people with those quirks would be regulated by social situations where those quirks would be discouraged by the majority of other people without those quirks. In internet land, those quirks are encouraged, if for no other reason entertainment factor.
When you are dealing with people who actually know you and care about your happiness, they take you aside and have conversations about these quirks. They know that in normal human interaction, certain statements and beliefs will interfere with your life. No such compunction exists in internet communities.
Just got back from my mums and was amazed at this thread- though I don't always agree with James I do think he does produce thought provoking, informative and enjoyable hubs. I know he reads other peoples hubs; he has read some of mine and some of my second account Just History and always left kind comments.
Reading the earlier post from Simone it appears that the advice is not to worry- ignore the hubber score - this is echoed throughout the postings and is something I have often thought and advised.
The big point...........IF WE ARE ADVISED TO IGNORE THE HUBBER SCORE THEN WHY ON EARTH BOTHER HAVING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
This is true, but then again a hubberscore below 75 means all links are nofollow.
I have read this thread right through, and think James has a valid complaint. I would be upset if my hubberscore fell so low, and I didn't know why.
And this is the crux of the matter.
He doesn't know why, HP staff either don't know or have chosen not to look at his account to tell him why (and fair do's, it's a big account and would take hours).
I see it has risen 9 points since the thread started, but seems to have stalled again.
To those who think his re-posted opening post is different to the original, it isn't. It is identical.
Something is wrong here, and instead of pulling together to help him, the community seems split, which is a shame.
After all, it could happen to any one of us, especially when we do not know all the factors involved in determining hubscore.
No-follow links are definitely something to worry about. I would be upset if my score went below 75 for this reason.
The HP apologists on this thread would be upset also if their scores fell to such a low number. Despite their bold words to the contrary. There are always such folks towing the party line......
Since I am a "hp apologist" I will respond with: I would absolutely not give one flying fig if my hubber score fell 50 points.
On my top 100 list of things I give a crap about, my hubber score doesn't even make an appearance.
Not bold words, I just have more important things to worry about... like the price of tea in China.
Some of us do worry when the links to our hubs are made "no follow" though, Melissa. Although some hubbers don't get enough traffic to give a "flying fig" as they aren't affected at all. I assume you are in this group, or are you?
Write for content rather than for the purpose of pushing another site and it won't matter to you, either. The tiny bit of SEO juice from links between your hubs isn't worth worrying about.
I get about 5000-6000 views a month, most of those are search engines.
If I got 100,000 views a month, I still wouldn't care if my hubber score was 10... and neither does Google.
I don't care if my backlinks are follow or not, as I'm not trying to artificially raise the seo of another website... even if I were to link to my personal blog I would do it as a way to generate traffic, not a way to raise my blogs search engine ranking.
Holy cow, you're a rock star. Im lucky if two ppl visit my site a month.
*gasp* You're not playing the SEO game? How can you call yourself a writer with that sorry attitude? You really, really, need to clean up your act and get with the program, Melissa!
I'm not either....
LOL, it's that general sense of apathy that comes with prioritizing my life.
I will freely admit that if I had to make content writing based on ad revenue my only source of income I might care more...
I was just responding to his assumption that all people who are "HP apologists" would somehow be so bent out of shape if it happened to us... I wouldn't.
Of course, if I saw my hubber score drop 20 points, my first assumption would be to assume I screwed up... rather than assuming that someone whom I never met and who likely could not possibly care less about me, took the time to override an automated system to lower a largely meaningless score just to piss me off.
Especially when that someone has a couple hundred-thousand other targets.
Not sure about the prioritizing thing - mostly I'm just lazy, I think. It's not worth the effort to spend hours each day spreading backlinks. I've found that putting out a half dozen social links will garner me maybe 20 views, which are gone the next day, never to return. Not worth it.
I don't think I'd care either as long as my earnings and hub views were still the same. I'm more concerned about the dip in traffic...excuse me.....BIG dip in traffic. If it affected earnings, I'd be really mad....HOWEVER.
Maybe I'd be insulted if my score went way down. Who the heck knows? I could just picture myself, waking up one morning, seeing a 63 and saying "WHAT...the...!!!##$$%#$! So yeah, I guess I can see why James is discouraged.
Are you toying with us with the towing? Or is toeing on your mind?
I suppose since you are not from the US you aren't aware of the difference between the meaning of the two words when used, Will. Not really surprising.
I am not from the US and it seems the use was incorrect (toeing would be correct). But what does it really matter?
Nobody 'tows the line', Randy. Try Googling it.
I did, Will. According to the Cambridge Dictionary the two words can be used for the same meaning as in "toe/towing the line." I've observed both of them used for the same purpose many times, believe it or not. Who really cares though? Are you that nit-picky?
I entered 'tow the line' in the Cambridge Dictionary and I was redirected to 'toe the line'. I Googled 'tow the line' and was redirected to 'toe the line'.
You can use it if you wish, if you are don't care about the language.
It would be an interesting test for the MTurkers. Sort the chaff from the wheels. You don't mind if I say wheels do you? I know you ain't picky.
IzzyM— I thank you for a beautiful post. The Voice of Reason has found us!
Some care and some don't. And instead of implying low traffic you might consider that many (most?) of us are not here to get backlinks. This entire thread could use a little more focus on the issue and less on the bickering and casting aspersions.
How good of you to tell us what most of us care about, psycheskinner. Where did you find this info, by the way?
I want my links to have SE juice, not so much for my own content, but for the related content of others, of which I have used!
Ill say this for you James, youve done a remarkable job of rising above the personal attacks. Says a lot about you imo.
Oh yeah, I would have been banned for daring to respond to some of these people.
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