The Subdomain Switch ...What's Happening with you?

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Jason Menayanposted 13 years ago
I'll chime in here...

As one of the many people Paul did the "blind reading" test on, I can tell you that Paul's only interest here is in helping decent writers get back their traffic. It is patently clear that everyone participating in this thread is intelligent and a good writer, so Paul's been spending considerable time trying to suss out what Google thinks is writing worth directing traffic towards, and what is not. We are also working on a bigger, more analytical approach, but that will take some time, and we know that many of those "plunged" by Google don't want to wait that long, which we understand.

The first-read conclusion of the test is that writing that suggests the writer is intimately familiar with the topic they're writing about (cues include the use of the first person, drawing in personal, relevant experiences, etc.) have tended not to be "plunged" while those using more commercial marketing-type, and in some cases SEOed, copy have fared worse. Again, a more detailed, rigorous analysis will be coming down the road, but if you're anxious to do something, then you might consider Paul's advice.

Again, none of this is a slam on anyone's writing skills. Not everyone can write marketing copy - it does require some skill - but it's possible that that style of writing might not be to Google's liking. You're free, of course, to follow your own instincts or wait for our deeper analysis, though.
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  WriteAngledposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have a major problem with this. I have deep familiarity with biomedical topics, this being the field of my education and work experience. Whenever I search for biomedical information, I am astounded by the c__p that floats to the top of searches. Much of it is written in the first person, draws in personal experience, and is usually useless or wrong to the point of being dangerous.
  
  Scientific writing more or less never uses the first person, often uses passive voice, and thus presumably is now being penalised so that it does not appear in general search results!
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  Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can understand your frustration. I'm not sure how Google chooses to rank things sometimes, but on commercial topics (ones that don't require an advanced degree or license to speak authoritatively on, like reviewing a product), it seems to hold true, and for good reason.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many of my best hubs are technical in their advice and don't dwell on puching products. In fact, some of them consist of up to 200 or more comments where i answer questions and provide solutions to problems I doubt you, Paul E., or others of the "listening group" would understand even if you heard them read aloud.
  
  I am happy to help those who need the advice and they, in return, thank me and praise my articles. Perhaps it would just be best to move on if this is the best advice you guys can up with. Kick us while we're down! I can take a hint.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, if you're not dealing with a penalty, I strongly suspect your account took a hit not because of that valuable content, but despite it. Meaning, something else trumped the good stuff. Is it really so undesirable to change some things, not necessarily on the articles you know were succeeding (though for successful articles, you could probably safely tweak this or that, if you see something wrong), but on those that weren't so much? Especially if those changes were improvements rather than just random changes? I doubt it could hurt, anyway.
  
  I know it sounds like I'm a Google fanboy, but I'm not. We barely use Google in our household anymore, the results are so awful lately. It's more like fearing the dragon. I really like your articles and many others' who were hit and am truly sorry this is happening, so I'm trying to understand it for your sake - as well as for my sake, because I think it's only a matter of time before it hits me, too.
  
  If everyone had been hit at the same time, or only people who couldn't write well, I'd think there was nothing any of us could do. And there might not be anyway; Google has way too much power now to affect the economy with a swish of the algorithm. But on the off-chance that we can, it could be worth it. The web needs good writers and a number of them are here on HubPages.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is not "undesirable" to change things which need changing, but I'm not going to run around changing things just because someone thinks it MAY be the problem.
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  Hope Alexanderposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jason, seriously, why is nobody saying anything about the effects of the redirect? I mean, you've gone right back to talking about how hubs are written and not at all acknowledged the effects of the redirect.
  
  I'm glad most hubbers are seeing an improvement, I am. But I'll also eat my hat if the reason some people are plummeting a week or so after switching has anything to do with their style of writing.
  
  Redirects screw with authority. People writing in areas that are highly competitive will have lost significant edge with a redirect. If there are say, twenty good articles on a topic and one of those redirects its URL, guess which one drops in rankings. Now say you have 300 articles in that area, and they all get redirected. They all drop.
  
  Why are we pretending as if this isn't a reality and a potential reason for the issues?
  
  The plunging hasn't been going on long enough for it to relate to content quality very much. It's so obvious (to me at least) that this is a matter of people having lost rank in certain highly competitive subject areas because of the drop in authority of their articles.
  
  You can look at the way hubs are written all you want, and perhaps that will help in the long run, but in the short term even the deepest analysis of the wrong thing won't help.
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  Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We have been clear from the very beginning that there is a risk involved with using 301 redirects, and we were also clear that using a 301 redirect (as was required to move everyone to a subdomain) would not pass on all the "link juice" of the original pages. That was still preferable to the then-status quo, when everyone's Hubs were penalized in Google's search results, regardless of quality.
  
  That Google might be plunging traffic to a certain segment of Hubbers because of the abruptness of the redirect might be the case. We don't know why, in that case, though, it would only affect a small percentage of Hubbers. We are trying to get answers to Hubbers who probably don't want to hear "just wait it out" from us.
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  Hope Alexanderposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I replied to you below in the 'fair enough' bit. Apparently hitting 'reply' in the 'Feed' section doesn't thread the reply in the forum. It's all so new and shiny to me!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't preferable to me as none of the other updates affected me very much at all. In fact, my traffic continued to rise until this latest fiasco simply destroyed my traffic. Yes I know, nothing new and this is my peak earning season to boot. What a mess.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where? When? Can you (or someone) post a link to that explanation? I don't remember seeing any such statement.
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  janderson99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey! Guess What! The copy cheats and Spinners have just installed grammar checking and keyword counters on their filters and tools - There's no point copying stuff that won't rank!
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Hope Alexanderposted 13 years ago
Okay, this is my last and final attempt to try to make my point, then I'm done.

Hub hits pre subdomain switch: 30 k
Hub hits post subdomain switch 16 k

Hits on blog set up for same topic, that sends traffic to HP and is written in the same style as my hubs? 24 k holding steady.

If the 'style of writing' argument had any merit, my personal site that I control, the one that hasn't recently been restructured, would also show a hit, it's not. In fact, its the only thing keeping my HP profile alive right now.

Style of writing might be a factor for some, but this plunging? No. This is a redirect issue. Google loves authority and doesn't like redirects.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm no expert on backlinks, but I'll buy that it's had an effect. Google always sounds vague about those things (with nervous-making statements along the lines of "A 301 redirect shouldn't have too much of an effect").
  
  Is it an option for you to try contacting the sources of the backlinks and asking them to update them?
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  Hope Alexanderposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fictionteller, the backlinks are mine. I control all of them. Mwa ha. The point of that post was that the site that I control (the non redirected one) has maintained traffic and rankings. Only my hubs (the ones that have been redirected lately) aren't getting direct Google traffic. It's a neat little control in a way, and I think it shows where the problem is, at least in my case.
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Hope Alexanderposted 13 years ago
Fair enough.

I do think the subdomain switch was a good idea. I think in the long term it will help a lot.

I don't think there's much anyone can do but wait it out if they're in the small percentage of people hit by this. The only reason I've been harping on it is that, for some, the insinuation that the problem lies with their writing isn't only discouraging, it's also incorrect.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, this is true, too. No theory about plunges applies in all cases. And we're all shooting in the twilight.
  
  I had three articles (that I noticed) plunge on August 10, but nothing else. (Still dreading it's gonna happen). All three had something wrong with their user friendliness. Two had an eerily similar type of phrase in the opening paragraph. Another just had a bad, disorganized introduction. I fixed them. The dateline for Panda re-ranking is a mystery to all. If they come back at some point, I still won't know if it was anything I did.
  
  I really liked the article IzzyM linked to on Randy's thread about Google, about how we're ruled by algorithms. It's a different world.
  
  I hope it all works out for folks.
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  Hope Alexanderposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's certainly an unsettling world, I'll give it that.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for saying that. Since Paul Edmonson publicly insulted my writing in front of Ryankett's 2,335 followers I have been LIVID! I know my writing is good and I have no idea why he called me out like that when there ARE some truly awful writers out there and I'm not one of them. I'm not sure what to do at this point - I am in that "small percentage" who have suffered a huge traffic drop...
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He was totally out of order, IMO, Lily Rose and you are quite right to be livid.
  
  He is also incorrect as you are a wonderful writer. Your writing flows smoothly with an easy to read style and your English is perfect.
  
  The term "clutching at straws" springs to mind.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree - and thank you! I'm seeing him throwing out the "it may read awkward when read out loud" excuse in many places as of late...
  
  Oh, and I did contact him directly to let him know how inappropriate I felt that "calling out" was.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I checked your dishwasher page thinking "oh this will be that typical crap" and it most certainly wasn't. If I ever write a dishwasher page that would do for me.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely. I read it too and thought it fantastic. Certainly far better than any of my sales pages which I only write for Amazon sales (obviously!) and which worked quite well up until recently, despite lacking in quality.
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Mutiny92posted 13 years ago
This is an interesting conundrum. Is quality writing a part of it? Maybe. Paul certainly thinks so and frankly we should be thanking him for offering assistance, even if it bruises some of our egos (heck, he recommended some pretty drastic actions for my account!) He could have simply said that they were looking into it and did not have any guidance at this time. Instead, he offered good advice...I think almost everyone can benefit from stepping back and reviewing the quality of their work. I know my early hubs are nowhere near as good as my later hubs. Unfortunately, at this point, my newer hubs appear not be that good either! LOL!

However, how many of your other websites took a similar dive? While the subjective writing quality may be an issue, it would seems odd that several folks took a dive on HP on the exact same day. Are more people getting hit since the day of the Great Plunge? Or was this a one time phenomenon?

At least we have something we can tangibly work on...go through, cull the poor hubs and spend time improving the quality of the others...

Just my 2 cents as I contemplate the ramifications of deleting all of my hubs and starting over...
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't do that, wait for Panda 2.5. You may be in for a surprise
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  Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I hope so. Sadly, one of my favorite quotes is "Hope is not a good Strategy"...
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  Mark Ewbieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What's Panda 2.5 going to do? Apologise?
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You never know
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try and invade Russia, maybe
  
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  FloraBreenRobisonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting photoshop.
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Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago
OK, I have to say something. IzzyM is one of the few people I follow. I don't follow her because I like spammy crap writing - I follow her because she is a successful marketer. I am not, but I like to think if I were to try then Izzy, and yes Ryan, would be among the first people I would check out for style, content, etc.

I probably should follow Hope as well. Of all the people on this thread, someone with 10M plus visits is someone to take note of. People who can - do, and people who can't - talk about it.

Matter of fact, whenever I see someone offering advice, pretty much the first thing I do is check their traffic stats. (You needn't check mine - they're crap - but I'm pontificating not saying I have an answer)

If I were to compare Izzy's writing against the 'standard' on the web I would say she is well above that standard.

My advice to Izzy, and others, faced with the idea of trying to rewrite everything for the latest 'theory' would be to get blogging or site writing for now, and just leave those hubs.

Meanwhile, if as many people with good and bad traffic contribute to this as possible, we have a chance of understanding.

Isn't it absolutely brilliant and fair of Google to offer no clues or reason as to a penalty that they themselves apply? Let's hope the monopoly commission points this out.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did I ever tell you how much I love you, Mark?
  
  <sigh>
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  Mark Ewbieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. That's why I wrote all that stuff above. It worked!!!
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PaulGoodman67posted 13 years ago
My traffic has been good recently, it went up even more at the weekend, but then took an unexplained and severe dip yesterday, when it would normally be rising.

The last unexplained dip I had, I climbed out of, when others didn't.

The funny thing is that now with everyone having their own subdomains, we are all experiencing quite different traffic effects, and it is no longer possible to come onto the forums and be pretty sure that most people will be experiencing something similar to yourself. In the old days, we were all in the same boat, for better or worse.

I hope I come out of this latest drop, but who knows? I might be joining the rest of you?
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sagebrush_mamaposted 13 years ago
Totally in over my head when it comes to SEO and optimization...just making a couple of observations...

When I linked my subdomain to Web Master Tools, I discovered that the top keyword for my subdomain was...price. I use a lot of Amazon capsules, and going back and trying out the Keyword Density Tool that Marisa mentioned, I also find that hubs which are heavy on Amazon capsules are heavy on the keyword, price. Adjusting the number of products reduces the keyword density of price.

The capsule uses the word twice for each product listed, once for "Amazon Price", and once for "List Price". Is there a way to alter the capsules so that there is only one use of price? If you used the ratio of 1 Amazon product per 50 words, would you be pushing a 4% usage of price due to the doubling up?

On a back to school related blog, my Amazon products are almost all displayed as images, and I write descriptive captions. On these, my actual keywords show up, rather than having "price", "Amazon", "Sagebrush_mama", and "Hubs" being the top 4 keywords?

Like I said, I'm not great at this stuff, just studying, and wondering...don't shoot me, shoot the Panda!
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  sagebrush_mamaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just looked at one of my Squidoo lenses that uses a LOT of Amazon products, which all show with the word price, and an interesting thing there, my control F search shows 29 instances of the word "price", all in the context of Amazon links, but in the keyword density tool mentioned here, it only picks up 9 uses, with a density of less than .5%, similarly the word Amazon isn't picked up as many times by the density tool, as with a control F search of the page.
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  mulberry1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have not researched this to know if it is true, but I've heard people indicate that the Squidoo Amazon modules are somehow "invisible" or something to Google bots. I don't remember who indicated this or if there is any truth to it. But perhaps there is something different in how the lenses are constructed/coded that is the cause of what you are seeing.
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Fiction Tellerposted 13 years ago
Having our own sites is not a control, though in a fair world it would be. As I said above, Google evaluates different sites differently. They don't use a fairness wand. They don't care about fairness. They care about data. They don't always (or even often) interpret the data very well. But they do center their algorithm around it.

Everything about Panda is about balancing objective markers (content itself and SEO factors) with subjective determinants of quality - that stuff that makes everyone say "but that's not fair - it depends on your opinion." That's the challenge Google started taking on with Panda. It's really hard and they're not, in my opinion, doing a very good job of it yet as the search results these days suck. But they're tackling quality, which is by definition a subjective thing.

And quality doesn't mean writing quality. It doesn't mean the expertise of the author. It means how trustworthy is the content for the query (in Google's opinion) and how well Google thinks users like it. Extracting that stuff from data is not simple and is bound to be full of errors. If you think Google's making errors in your case, you could sit it out and hope Google will correct its errors or you could move your content to a site on which Google's less likely to make an error. If you think the results are as Google intended, or that Google's not likely to fix things, you can try to modify your content. If you want to abandon Google altogether and seek other methods of achieving your aims...great, you're not alone, and if enough people band together to provide alternatives to Google, that would be awesome for everyone.

But within the here and now, Panda is about Google using its data to MOVE AWAY FROM relying on backlinks and SEO and things webmasters can control. Read Google's recent patents to see where they're heading. Panda is just the beginning of moving towards user-centric data.

Long-term success with search engine ranking relies on a combination of two things at its root:

1)your personal understanding how search engines think
2) doing what someone who does understand it says.

Relying exclusively on the second method is a tricky one because, well, we're all working in the dark here, and what worked one day won't the next. We all have our opinions, but the only people who can have any hard facts are those who have access to data - lots of it. The best ones to follow are people who not only have access to a broad base of data, but who are very good at using it.

In my opinion, naturally....!
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So how do you explain a situation like mine, where one person has two separate HP accounts - one of which has been "plunged" and the other hasn't?
  
  No disrespect, but I think pretty well everything that's been put forward on this thread about the reasons for the "plunging" is pure conjecture. We. Just. Don't. Have. Enough. Data.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Content can vary widely even when written by one person, and it often varies systematically when we're talking different accounts. People tend to put certain types of content on certain subdomains. So far I haven't heard people say "I have one subdomain where I have a broad variety of content that isn't different in any way from that on my other subdomain, and this one suffered and that one didn't." What I hear is "That subdomain has all my sales hubs and it was hit." Or "That subdomain has all my travel hubs and it was hit." Or "That one had all my fun hubs and it wasn't hit." Or whatever.
  
  Even if our different accounts look similar to us, they might not "behind the data scenes" because of the topic or the authority profile (which probably does involve backlinks). When our writer profiles are systematically different, they look different to Google. There's what I would call a significant amount of anecdotal evidence that suggests that Panda didn't affect all keywords and topic areas the same, too. I think health topics were hit hard, for example. I'd be really surprised to hear "I have two accounts - one focused on health topics and another focused on body piercing, and the health account is doing fabulous since Panda, but not the body piercing!"
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So who are you really? You have only 1 hub on this account so I can't really check out your hubs for "readability."
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just a fellow former Georgia-ite - that should be all you need to know! I used to love climbing Stone Mountain. Even went to Panola Mountain once - it was mostly closed to hikers at the time, but I got lucky because I volunteered at Fernbank. Loved those vultures...
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well actually no, that isn't all I need to know if you intend to post on this topic and give your 2 cents worth without anyone being able to look at your work to decide if you have any idea at all what you are talking about.
  
  You may work for HP for all we know and simply running interference for the site. Just saying....
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh. Well, no. I don't work for them. I have no association with them. Never met any of them, never talked to their mothers-in-law's housekeepers, or whatever.
  
  I'm sorry that I'm not comfortable sharing my other profiles in this venue. I understand if that means that what I say isn't credible. If what I'm saying doesn't have a ring of truth to you, and you care enough, you can decide for yourself by reading the professional forums on all this - DigitalPoint, Webmasterworld, the Google forums. There's tons of stuff on the web that can verify - or detract from, as the case may be - what I'm saying.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No problem, but a word of advice from my real profile. If you are going to give similar advice to what you posted here, next time use a profile with more than 1 hub. At least that way you appear to have some knowledge about what you are posting.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, and that one's a really bizarre story.
  
  Just assume I have no authority or experience whatsoever, okay? I am the Mysterious Wise Woman Who Knows Just Because She Knows. Heed my warnings, or else...uh...don't heed them.
  
  Seriously, just take what I say with a big bowl of salt and if it makes sense, use it, if it doesn't, toss it. I really am trying to help. But I'm as clueless as anyone. Just sometimes I'm under the illusion that I'm not.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate your leaving room for doubt instead of just throwing out insults in the hope you may be right.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is at least some truth to that. I know I write differently when I write a hub on ethics than I do when my intended audience is a group of newbie electricians learning their trade. And still differently when I expect the reader to be a homeowner trying to fix a faucet or something.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe, but it's still all speculation isn't it? You would really need to be able to analyse *thousands* of hubs across a range of subject matter and compare the plungers with the non plungers in a systematic way, across a range of criteria. Looking at a handful of accounts and then coming up with statements like "your hubs sound awkward when read aloud" is at best unhelpful and at worst downright insulting.
  
  Put it this way, I am hugely reluctant to make another bunch of changes to my hubs (after having removed "surplus" Amazon items months ago to comply with HP's new rules, and then gone back in again and removed RSS feeds - again, months ago). If it becomes "necessary" to make yet another set of edits, then I will be pulling that account down.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it's just speculation.
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wildernessposted 13 years ago
OK, like Mark I finally have to speak up.

There are a lot of people taking offense at the comment that their hubs may be low quality. What they seem to forget is that "quality" is being defined by a (literally) stupid algorithm!

The majority of our readers are barely literate by the standards we set for ourselves and I would expect that algorithm to reflect that. WriteAngled complains that scientific works should be in second person (a common complaint I see for all hubs) and is written in a passive voice so it is penalized by the algorithm. Of course it is - the scientist reading her hubs in not the typical reader that the algorithm is trying to emulate.

Paul states that first person writing is doing better, not because it is better quality, but because the algorithm wants to see it. If we want to be seen and loved by google we must write the quality they want to see - not the quality that our English teachers demanded. Previous threads have pointed out that most web articles are aimed at about an 8th grade level - do we expect an 8th grader to write (or willingly read) high grade, quality hubs? Of course not!

Panda instituted a new algorithm with an obviously different definition of quality - it is up to us to find that definition instead of crying that it isn't true quality. It doesn't matter how high a quality a hub is, if google doesn't like it it won't be seen. We all know this, and to take offense when someone points it out (perhaps with a poor choice of words) is silly.

Randy - I've used some of your hubs for research on "how to" stuff. They were great and I got the information I needed.

Izzy - I've seen some of your work. I love your writing. To the both of you; if google doesn't like it (and that seems to be the case) it doesn't mean you write poorly - it means that a computer program doesn't like what it sees.

I don't think that any of the respondents posting on this thread write low quality hubs, but that doesn't mean that stupid algorithm agrees. I've read many of your hubs and learned a good deal about how to write from reading them. Many of you have offered advice and help to newbies and it's usually very good advice.

If google has slapped some of you, as is apparent has happened, it is for poor quality according to their agorithm. Not because your writing is actually of low quality so don't take offense at the idea.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Wilderness. It sounds so much better to be told one's writing is too good for HubPages and Google. Now I know what to do!
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's good to hear. Personally I've got a rope tied to a large branch up the tree a ways. I figure I'm next on the list and want to be ready.
  
  Plus, I'm waiting for you guys with the bulging brains to figure this stupidity out. It's way out of my league.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If my brain is bulging, it's because of the headache and frustration with this place.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto!! I'm still upset at Paul, too!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the CEO is any indication of the way this site is operated, I'm extremely glad he showed what class he possesses in dealing with those of us hoping for some reason for our plight. It also indicates HP's profile and hub scoring algorithm isn't worth a hoot for determining quality or the ability of the writers. Not that I ever thought it did in the first place.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh and Randy, just so you don't feel left out, I read a couple of your hubs, aloud, and they read perfectly to me
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Izzy! I feel the same about yours I've read. Paul's insults to us helped me come to a decision about this place, though. So I think he did me a favor by his remarks on our sudden demise. Thanks for everything Paul.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy - I kind of felt the same way after that, but I'm giving myself a breather to think it over and then decide what my next move will be. Never have I thought that I would consider leaving HP before...
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to keep relying on HP or Google or to allow them so much control over my writing or how I choose to display it. I've dealt with enough of these writing sites to know nothing is as it seems on the surface. HP may be one of the better sites, but I'm not going to try any others to find out.
  
  So far, I've found none who're totally honest with their writers, especially concerning the earnings share. Yes, we get a 60/40 time percentage, but this doesn't mean we get 60% of the money our articles bring in.
  
  But even if the earnings were indeed 40%, we don't get our money's worth. I can pay for my own site and not have to put up with so much s**t in the bargain. I like a lot of people here and don't relish leaving. I felt the same way when I left the other sites. I'll take a little s**t, but I won't take a lot of s**t!
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  sabrebIadeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My sixth highest trafficked Hub has a 70 HP score.
  HP doesn't like it, but readers do.
  Actually I think all my highest visited Hubs are 70s and 80s.
  No one ever goes to the Hubs that are in the 90s.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And HP expects us to rely on their scoring system for an indication of quality and what visitors want.
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Same here - I have one hub that beats out all the rest by far and it's usually in the 80; I don't think it has ever touched the 90s at all. Now althought it beats out the rest in traffic numbers, it may not be so for the earnings - which leads me to suspect that the hubscore weighs heavily on how much money a hub is bringing in?? But then I'm not sure about the earnings of my hubs in the 90s .... hmmm...
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  2besureposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You really can't go by that some of my highest paying hubs are ranked in the 70's. The ones in the high 80s and 90s don't make any money at all.
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Tilecleaninghubposted 13 years ago
Ya this has nothing to do with the writing styles etc. It is all about the subdomain switch. Content was sitting out there for years to be copied, hashed and rehashed by anyone who wanted. Then with the subdomain switch all of our content is considered new and it is seen as copied content. 301s do not pass nothing imo. Just a bad idea for the subdomain switch.
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Will Apseposted 13 years ago
I will clutch at a few SEO straws for a while (for the sake of my sadly battered second account) but I know in my heart that the only real chance of success long term is to write stuff people want to read.

I don't think the first person is essential in the process of producing a compelling piece but it is probably the easiest way to generate some authority.

Another is to demonstrate a genuine knowledge of the subject- perhaps by keying into a current controversy or talking about recent trends and developments in the subject area. I usually dig for news about a product before writing an Amazon hub.

Also, I know when I have produced something engaging before I publish and those pieces invariably do well.

My second account had maybe ten good enough articles and thirty where I just failed to find something to lift them above the ordinary. So, I can hardly complain that it got slapped.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't buy the first person excuse at all. Many of my most visited hubs contain much 1st person info because I am giving instruction and personal advice to the visitors. One of my hubs has over 200 questions and answers from those seeking advice. Visitor interaction was suggested as it MAY help the big G determine the worth of the site.
  
  Many other of my hubs have these comments too. It's difficult to not use 1st person while relating similar problems by visitors and the solutions I've found and described for them.
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brandonhart100posted 13 years ago
My writing style isn't perfect - I have to agree with that; however, I must say that if it were writing style, then this would have affected my Squidoo account and 8 other Amazon niche sites as well which I own, operate, and write exclusively for. I lost a lot of traffic in the last week on HubPages - 75% of my traffic in fact, which amounts to about 3,000 visits per day lost.... ouch.

My Squidoo account and niche site posts (product reviews) have increased in traffic since my HP subdomain took the plunge as well as my other niche sites...

From reading the forums over there it appears that other people have experienced the same upward pattern.

It's possible that HubPages will rebound but I'm glad I learned my lesson from the first time the Panda bit me in March and diversified my online portfolio.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've learned my lesson too. Never trust anyone working for content sites. There's been too many slip-ups on HP for me to ever trust their judgement again. Are there any honest content sites at all? If so, someone point them out to me.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to be a harbinger of doom but I think Squidoo is an accident waiting to happen.
  
  It has to be a target for the Panda tweakers at Google. Some of the top pages there are excellent, of course. Many of the pages are very poor indeed but rank high in the SERPs.
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  janderson99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No sign of anything so far
  
  Squidoo
  
  Hubpages
  
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jGauntposted 13 years ago
My situation is that I publish on Hubpages, Squidoo and a few of my own sites. After Panda, the traffic on my own sites where either the same or better and Squidoo has remained stable. My traffic on Hubpages however halved.

One thing I liked about publishing on Hubpages, is that I could write about anything I wanted to and it would get read. Generally by a large number of people. I wrote about topics like: SEO ideas, movies and books that I enjoyed, reviews of the newest tech gadgets and about the newest games I had tried. In contrast my own sites tend to be focused on one niche.

I have never had any RSS feeds on any of my hubs.

I did not voluntarily move to the new subdomain. I did make some changes prior to the forced move. I rewrote my profile, taking it up to 500 words and reduced the Amazon links on all of my Hubs to 4 or less. I also moved the Amazon widgets lower in the articles.

After the subdomain move my Hubs bounced up by 75% for 24 hours. It then fell back to the normal post Panda number. Over the next week it steadily fell a further 70%. So my Hubs are getting very little traffic, at the moment.

I intend to leave my Hubs as is, for the next 3 months and hope things turn around. After that period I might consider moving Hubs that get no traffic, elsewhere.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I used to sing HubPages' praises a lot, and that was the exact reason. Before sub-domains, when you wrote a Hub, you were adding a page to a huge, well-respected website and therefore your page automatically had credibility.
  
  Now the main site is no longer well-respected, that advantage has gone. I'm still struggling with the idea that if I had my own website, I wouldn't dream of writing about a range of subjects: all the advice is that you must pick a subject and stick to it. So why do we think our sub-domains should be different?
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melanielindseyposted 13 years ago
Sorry but I'm new to this. What is Panda?
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Probably easiest to Bing it! We're trying not to use the G word
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thejeffriestubeposted 13 years ago
I vote we refer to G now as "The Search Engine That Shall Not be Named" :-)
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  bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Screwgle.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Voggle - as made up by ITV on their flagship TV program Coronation Street. And the name is already taken!
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frogdroppingposted 13 years ago
Lily calm, you're a long way from a writer that doesn't know her ass from her elbow

Here - Utter Crap
That hub usually languishes around the mid to high 90's. It doesn't earn a red cent and never has.

It's all just a ride. You just gotta figure out whether to hold on or get off at the next stop
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, frogdropping! I'm glad that I joined this discussion, it has put my fears to rest - well, actually it has justified what I was already feeling about my writing. My fears about what to do to get my traffic and earnings back, on the other hand, are not put to rest and I don't think there's anything that could do that other than someone at Google contacting me directly to tell me exactly what they don't like about me ... er, my hubs, that is!
  
  I have no way to know if this ride is nearing an end and I'm conflicted as to whether to hang on and ride it out or jump off....all I know is that this current situation sucks!
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Pearldiverposted 13 years ago
Oh YAWN.....

I have always questioned one's need to read 'out loud' - irrespective of whether it is a site owner with a stutter and numerous sock puppets, or search engine staff that arrogantly consider that their 'artificial' intelligence will ever understand the works of excellent writers objectively!

Let's face it... Many of us DO NOT WRITE FOR ADVERTISERS... There have been many excellent writers here... Most are and have been judged by others of lesser ability writing-wise and of greater ability manipulative-wise!

OH Yawn..... such a tiring aspect of web time - artificial intelligence!

Didn't IBM win a game show with an artificially inseminated algorithm??
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Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago
OK guys. I have a theory. May well be wrong but there's no one who can prove it so...

HP 301 directed our indexes to our new domains. But those old indexes were already slammed by Panda. So they were worthless. Forget them.

Our subdomains were all new content. Temporary boost for new content and then a settling. And then hopefully a gradual rise - through ageing, natural linking and so on.

But some people got slapped it seems. Google doesn't like a whole lot of new content with lots of links. It smells a bit fishy. So they penalise it for a while, make sure you're not a spammer.

That is my theory, and to be honest, after all the total nonsense that has been spouted ever since Panda started - I don't mind having a go myself.

It might just mean there is hope for those that got slammed all over again, and for me too of course. A gradual rise. I could live with that.

ps. I don't mind being told I'm wrong. We're all pissing in the wind anyway.
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  janderson99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Quote below makes a lot of sense to me.
  http://www.canonicalseo.com/redirecting-web-pages/
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------
  The short-term effects of 301 redirects
  
  When a URL has inbound links from other web sites and is ranking well in the SERPs, 301 redirecting that web page will almost always negatively affect rankings and the organic search traffic that those rankings generate in the short-term.
  
  For example, imagine that a web page at URL A on your site has 1000 inbound links with many variations of “your targeted phrase” as the link text. Also assume that URL A ranks well for “your targeted phrase” and several slight variations of that phrase resulting in quite a bit of organic search traffic to the web page found at URL A.
  
  Now assume that for whatever reason you need to move the page found at URL A to a new location at URL B. So you implement a 301 redirect for URL A to notify browsers and search engine crawlers that you have permanently moved the web page to URL B.
  
  The next time the search engine crawls one of those 1000 inbound links and requests URL A from your web server, it will return an HTTP Status of 301 Moved Permanently with a Location value of URL B. This tells browsers and crawlers that the page they requested has been permanently moved and can now be found at URL B.
  
  So the crawler will then request URL B. If your web server successfully serves up URL B and returns a 200 Ok HTTP Status then the search engine will transfer credit for that inbound link (and its associated link text) from URL A over to URL B. Now URL B has 1 inbound link that the search engine knows about.
  
  As the inbound links to URL A are recrawled, credit for all of those links will transferred to URL B over time.
  
  It is during this period when all of the inbound links to URL A are being recrawled, the 301 redirect is being discovered for each inbound link, and credit is being transferred to URL B for each inbound link that rankings and traffic will suffer. The good news is that if URL B is optimized to rank for the same keyword phrase as the old URL A then rankings and traffic should return once all inbound links to URL A have been recrawled.
  
  How long it takes for your rankings and traffic to return depends on the crawl frequencies of the URLs that link to the old URL A. Some sites may get crawled daily while other sites linking to your web page might be crawled once every 4-6 weeks. So there is really not a lot you can do to speed up the process other than to be patient.
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------
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  Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is a great theory! A couple of my top performing hubs had a lot of backlinks to them.
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  janderson99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I redid all my external backlinks with the subdomain URL - I think that this helped - but again this takes time to work though and the host page has to be revisited by the googlebot (unless you click the link - I think).
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  Richieb799posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is what I thought, I envisioned a problem with backlinks from the start. I immediately posted some high PR backlinks after the subdomain switch, although I've been up to my eyes working on my employers site and liaising with him.
  
  Saying that, my daily visitors are just about hanging in there with double what they were prior to the subdomain switch and my earnings almost back to prepanda levels, if I can earn another £30 in 5 days they will be! I'm grinding my teeth hoping things will stay this way
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
My traffic won't stop climbing, it really looks to good to be true, and I keep wondering if it is a glitch somewhere. After Panda I was down to between 800 - 900 views a day over 300+ Hubs, a drop of about 1300 views a day. Then the subdomain switch happened, and ever since then my traffic has kept on rising. For the last few weeks it had been averaging about 1900 -2000 per day (and I should add that after Panda I removed or unpublished a load of hubs, so I was down to only 200+ providing those views, as opposed to the former 300+). A few days ago my traffic began to rise further to around 2200 - 2300, but then yesterday it was up to about 2500, and today I am at over 2865 so far! I just can't explain it, and keep expecting it to nosedive like so many others are reporting, but right now it keeps on rising. Shame my income doesn't rise at the same rate though!
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  bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I now have 4 hits from Google today from as high as 700 when things were cool. I write about a lot of economic and political things. I think Google is a content thief and an immoral piece of crap.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm seeing a huge spike in traffic. The problem is there were huge traffic spikes before previous Panda hits so I am more concerned than excited.
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good God, just checked again, and there must be a mistake surely. My traffic today is...... wait for it....... 3461 views today. This is about 1200+ more views than my highest viewing days pre-Panda. Surely a glitch as it just doesn't make any sense for traffic to jump so much over several days!! Virtually 1100 of those views are split between 2 Hubs!!
  
  Edit, LOL, only earned 92p yesterday though, and 11p today so far!!
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now at 3613, that is another 150+ viewings in just over half an hour. Getting really weirded out now!!
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm in the same boat (although with nowhere near the views you are reporting!). So far today I've already beat my previous all time record by a comfortable margin and it keeps going.
  
  The biggest difference is that it's not just a hub or two - nearly 20% of my hubs have red arrows.
  
  As you say, I'm getting freaked out - Just no reason for it I can see at all, and that probably means tomorrow will fall back to post-panda.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (Sorry if it's tiring to anyone, but I figured I may as well kick in on my own slightly weirded-out situation too.) After seeming to have settled in the area of 1800 several days ago, mine dropped for a few days to more like 1500/1600 (I think). Then, for the last couple/few days it's been just over 2000. I haven't been around all day, and when I just checked it's at 3100 or so. I can't help but think "glitch" too. Of course, I'm ready to see 50 tomorrow; but I've never seen over 3000 (unless it was pre-Panda, and I missed it - but I don't think so).
  
  Uh oh.. Now I'm seeing another hundred plus - just in the time I posted here.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not tiring to me, this thread and the information is just about the most important subject. I too have seen better traffic than usual, and as Will says - this spiking happened pre other Panda slams so almost scared by it.
  
  For me it looks like Google has tried to give me a hit across a lot of hubs, like trying me out almost. Of course those ungrateful bastards, the viewers, just back arrow immediately so that's me condemned..
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can't say I find this thread tiring (particularly since this new element of freakishly increasing traffic has been introduced). If nothing else, trying to figure it all out is certain a challenge (if you don't mind upheaval, confusion, and just a hint, shall we say, of negativity at times).
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viryaboposted 13 years ago
This is all so tiring.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I have done very little, yet have noticed my figures leap and plunge several times. I am still waiting to see if anything concrete emerges if and when it settles for me.
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kmackey32posted 13 years ago
I am also seeing a big spike in traffic. Two days ago I had 10 clicks. I got scared at first.
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Len Cannonposted 13 years ago
I have also noticed a rather unexpected surge in views today. Adsense numbers confirm it. It is definitely outside of my normal high but I don't want to make any assumptions about it. I have noticed it is primarily on articles that haven't been performing as well as they could rather than top performers. I don't know if it is just a matter of them catching up after the subdomain switch or something else entirely.

Prolly a fluke.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Len, or a giant thief ring temporarily stepping up their activity in a big way. (Bad experiences over the last while - I can't help being a little skeptical. )
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
Something is most definitely wrong. Since my last post viewings are up again to 3773, God knows where they will be by tomorrow! Most of my hubs are also showing red upward arrows, or double red upward arrows. Very few show blue arrows. There has to be a problem somewhere as earnings are not reflecting the viewing figures!
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have the red arrows and double reds, and I checked the AS/analytics accounts to see if they matched, which they do. The pie chart that shows where traffic is coming from looks as it always does (primarily from search engines). I marked down the 11:19 1/day figure, and it hasn't changed since then; so that's 40 minutes. I'm kind of tired (very tired) right now, so I can't digest which Hubs that have gone up since yesterday are which that that did better in general earlier. (I have some noticeably better performers and some noticeably horrible performers, and the ones that have increased traffic are in the middle; so I've never noticed much about them.)
  
  I have had good Ad Sense days for the last three days or so, I think. Highest since Panda the day before yesterday.
  
  With 3 more hours until the Ad Sense day ends, it looks like this is a good day and may/may not be similar to that high day a couple of days ago. That would indicate that today's earnings, although good, aren't in direct proportion to the rise in traffic. With the mix of Hubs I have (and the ones that have gone up), I'm not sure it would, though; because they're too different from my previous performers. As I said, I'm tired and can't even digest figures right now.
  
  So that's what I've got so far..... I don't know.. I'm picturing, as I said, a drop to 50 views (well, maybe not 50; I guess I'm imagining dropping back to where things were over the last couple of weeks - maybe ). Just have to keep watching, I guess. It'd be nice if it weren't a glitch or a freak thing, but we're all pretty familiar with the ups-and-downs over recent months. I don't know.... Even though I tend to suspect it's a freak thing (or glitch), I have to say I like the "up" over the last day.
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It will certainly be interesting to see where we are tomorrow and if our earnings ever begin to reflect this, or if it does end up being simply a glitch! Strange if Analytics is showing the same though, as this indicates the glitch is theirs, not Hubpages!
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
Now at 3869 viewings, so gained another 96 viewings in just over half an hour approx!!
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whoa. It's kind of getting creepier and creepier at this point (although at this point I've kind of settled toward thinking it's just a glitch and have become kind of immune to it). It has certainly livened things up a little, though - glitch or no glitch.
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  kmackey32posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OMG I am tired but I just keep watching adsense...
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Think I'll go look at Ad Sense. (I hope if it's a glitch they don't want any earnings paid back to them. That would be my luck. )
  
  Back: It's good, but it doesn't look proportional to the increase in traffic. For now, it looks pretty similar to yesterday or the day before. Oh well...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've got dead hubs that have come to life after months of languishing. I think maybe goddunnit.
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Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago
I can only think the amount of sarcastic bile I have aimed at Google over the last six months has finally paid off.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever is causing this, it's going to be a giant, giant, let-down if things go back as they were tomorrow (no matter how much anyone doesn't allow himself to believe there's no freak thing going on. BUT, roller coaster rides wouldn't be fun if they didn't go uphill at least once in awhile.
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
I am off to bed now, but will be interested to see if a glitch is unearthed by the time I wake up!! Definitely have no faith in the incredibly rising figures over recent hours being genuine and not computer error!
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..but you can dream. (I'm going to be afraid to look tomorrow. )
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, beats nightmares at least. Catch up tomorrow, or should I say later today, (it is 06.08am here now).
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The nightmares will occur tomorrow night when the glitch or whatever it is is fixed.. Good night.
  
  (Note before I stop deluding myself for awhile: About an hour after last looking, I'm up to 3405 from 3391. )
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  3974 now, and totally off to bed, (daylight outside). Catch up tomorrow when our views all crash because this turns out to be a mistake lol
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CASE1WORKERposted 13 years ago
Someone wake IzzyM up she need to see the stats rise after the last week she has had!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't mean Izzy's stats are rising also, C1W. I know mine are still down 75% or more. Let her sleep, she needs it after all this junk. Her traffic nosedived and then she's insulted in front of everyone here.
  
  But I'm glad some here have some good news to share for a change.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OH,NO! I am so sorry, I guess I hoped that it was site wide!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No problem, just wanted you to know.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No definitely not site-wide, but I am happy for those this is happening to. If you look back to the start of this thread, I also experienced this ride albeit a few weeks ago now.
  
  Some of us with the big traffic drop, the plungers, have had a Google slap and when one of us rises, we all will I think, but not until then, if it happens at all.
  
  Please keep posting stats! Been there done it, know it is a wonderful feeling
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wordscribe43posted 13 years ago
Oh no... it's not site wide. Mine still suck, but I am happy to be living vicariously through all of you.
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  sofsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Same here, still in the deep end... glad that the others have something good to report.. enjoy the ride
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  Lily Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi WS! I'm also in the same still waaaay down, too.
  
  Actually, my traffic numbers are looking slightly better the last couple of days, but unfortunately they are my own views as I've been going through all my hubs the last few days. I finally removed all RSS capsules and most link capsules, too. I also deleted 20-something hubs. Don't know if it'll make a difference at all, I guess I'll find out eventually...
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Lily Rose. I've been silently following your plight and can feel your pain. I'm sorry about your deflated traffic and all the rest of the debacle. I can only hope we'll get out of this swamp soon.
  
  I DID have a dream my traffic went through the roof last night. Does that count?
  
  Like you, I've deleted hubs and am reworking many others. I'm not holding my breath or anything.
  
  Good to see you. Hope you had a great summer!
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classicalgeekposted 13 years ago
I was up to an average of just over 1 view per hub per day after the subdomain switch. Now with about 75 hubs over the past week it dropped to 20, then 15, and today a grand total of 6. I don't think it's my writing or my subjects. But seeing that others have started reporting spikes, I'm going to hang in there and hope I've just temporarily been sandboxed or something.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just looking through a couple of your hubs I noticed you repeat your main keywords 4 or 5 times in H2 headers.
  
  'How to Make Your Own Mascara' gets a lot of outings (with small variations) in big headers on your Mascara page, for example.
  
  If you mention your keywords in the title, the summary and the first 50, or so, words that really should be enough.
  
  Keyword stuffing is one of those things most likely to get you a penalty.
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  classicalgeekposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is one of the problematic hubs, as there's really no sufficient synonym for mascara. However, I just ran a keyword density check on 10% of my other hubs, showing a keyword density of no more than 3% on any of the others, so I am not really sure that keyword stuffing is the problem. I write in the same style on many different sites (including my own niche sites) and those have not been hit in the same way. Now that I think of it, I actually can track the traffic drop to increasing the length of my profile (this happened within 24 hours of upping my profile to 500+ words).
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
Mine are now up to 4669, but I notice HubAd earnings for yesterday are still pending today, which makes me wonder if they may be checking for a problem and not awarding income to each account until they are sure!
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, HPads is still pending and that's the one I want to see! Neither Adsense nor Amazon did anything for me yesterday in spite of the enormous increase - I'm sure hoping that HPads will be different.
  
  When I looked this morning at HP stats I nearly threw my coffee at the screen, thinking it was on fire! Red everywhere!! Yesterday beat my previous high (from last November) by about 30% and more than doubled my post-subdomain figures.
  
  This morning it continues to climb. I normally see 24 hour figures in the low to mid 300's - last night it was just over 700 and it is now 780.
  
  I can only hope that it hits Izzy, Randy, and the rest of us that got hit so hard recently. I just don't get that.
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sunforgedposted 13 years ago
Again with the penalty and over optimization crap...

When identifying and poor performing piece of content. The first step is competitive analysis (which I would do quickly for the term, but am still on a phone)

According to site explorer and in return probably google... no one has ever considered that hub worthy of a link.. hence it must be not worthy of high serp placement. Simple... until that issue is resolved it is pointless to theorize on possible on page issues... especially since it is properly configured for pre panda google, designed well for scanners, and readable. The targetting is a bit misleading though.. aiming for a more precise term that includes the "natural/green" focus of that hub could be an easy solution.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not hammering the keywords is such a basic thing- whether we are talking readability or avoiding the appearance of spamming.
  
  The old school optimization regime- keywords and related keywords in headers and bolds is such an easy way for a bot to identify SEO'ed content. It's unnecessary and can only harm your page.
  
  Natural writing is good.
  
  Anyway, enough of that I don't want to wreck the thread.
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  classicalgeekposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is not that particular hub, though I appreciate your suggestions, and it's true I haven't built any backlinks to that particular hub (it's new and I'm still rewriting and republishing my old eHow content). I'm definitely going to give them all a reworking and some backlinks once I finish republishing the eHow stuff.
  
  The problem is that my hubs that were getting 15-20 views per day and had backlinks built, are now getting zero. This happened starting the day I increased the length of my profile, per the suggestion that profiles should be more than about 100 words (my original profile was even shorter than that). I brought mine up to 501 words, and starting the next day my traffic dropped, and dropped . . . .
  
  I guess I will spend the afternoon going around and updating old backlinks to the new subdomain and see if that makes a difference. Can't hurt, might help. And the articles I'm backlinking from might get the "updated content" boost.
  
  Thanks again to sunforged and Will Apse for your help, and those are some excellent suggestions. (I'm not quite sure what a more precise term would be but I'll think on it. The demands of my day job at present are pretty overwhelming.)
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I boosted up my profile a few days ago- doubled it in length- and today I am getting an extra 2000 page views. I don't think these two things are related!
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SunSevenposted 13 years ago
Something is terribly amiss. The spikes are not converting.
I tend to agree with fictionteller at this point.
This traffic is not worth getting excited about, yet.

Best Regards
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone on this thread can respond with escalating revenue to go with the spikes?
  My guess is that, this is going to level out at somewhere between pre-panda and the free fall post panda. So, expect another drop in traffic in the next 48 hrs. Google dances high and low.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, my Empress Felicity account (as opposed to my "plunger" #2 account, which is moribund) has had its biggest EVER number of daily views. But it earned a big fat zero in Adsense yesterday, and yesterday's ad revenue is still "pending"
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Jane@CMposted 13 years ago
I am seeing my trafic rising just a bit over the last day or so. I wish it would affect my earnings
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Len Cannonposted 13 years ago
I have been very curious about this fairly extreme traffic spike and it does seem a little off. I haven't noticed a real increase in Adsense earnings but I get relatively few Adsense impressions when HP Ads are running. I certainly have seen a 30% increase in Amazon clicks, however that would correspond to a large number of my Halloween articles getting a boost.

Some of the search terms I looked at are very odd. Let's look at one of the top searches for one of my soaring Hubs.

"whats that disney horror movie about kids who were turned into wood figures "*

That has 6 hits with 4 unique page views. It would be shocking to see that rather unusual phrase show up once, but multiple times from (supposedly) different originating sources? It is possible that it was someone on a mobile phone or with some non-static IP mashing buttons but it seems odd.

Another result term gave me 16 hits from only 7 unique visitors, but it is for an extremely competitive term where my particular Hub ranks far, far, far to the back of the SERPs. At least page 5 or 6.

So, I am cautiously optimistic but I think this seems fishy. I don't have the smarts to speculate as to what is happening, just that it is unusual and kind of illogical.

*I am pretty sure the movie they are looking for, by the way, was Ernest Scared Stupid. Which I didn't write about. Sorry, searcher!
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Silver Roseposted 13 years ago
Google changed the session length in analytics a few weeks ago:

http://analytics.blogspot.com/2011/08/u … ytics.html

"What’s changing?
Currently, Google Analytics ends a session when:
More than 30 minutes have elapsed between pageviews for a single visitor.
At the end of a day.
When a visitor closes their browser.
If any of these events occur, then the next pageview from the visitor will start a new session.

In the new model, Google Analytics will end a session when:
More than 30 minutes have elapsed between pageviews for a single visitor.
At the end of a day.
When any traffic source value for the user changes. Traffic source information includes: utm_source, utm_medium, utm_term, utm_content, utm_id, utm_campaign, and gclid.
As before, if any of these events occur, then the next pageview from the user will be the start of a new session."

I don't know if that's had an impact.

For now, go with Adsense impressions - they haven't changed how they calculate that.
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Uzdawiposted 13 years ago
It feels bit like a deja vu, looking at the first page of this topic.

My traffic still remains low.
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andyozposted 13 years ago
My stats page is just covered in red arrows! I am up almost 100% on what I have been at for the past few months. I also noticed the stats match up in Adsense and I'm having a really good few adsense earning days to match it. I hope this lasts.
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Lisa HWposted 13 years ago
I didn't see the "weird traffic increase" until around 11 last night. I watched it for a couple of hours, and decided to give it a full 12 hours to see what did or didn't go on, and what was or wasn't discovered (if anything).

As of around 1:45 or so a.m., my traffic had increased in the area of 50%, but that looked good to me; because the figures I really paid attention to were the previous two days or so, and traffic had been substantially higher in those recent few days anyway.

As of right now, my traffic has doubled over that high of those previous-day figures that I knew about.
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  janderson99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
  94
  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my gosh!
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mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years ago
My viewings now over 6052, treble + normal, but still no sign of HP awarding revenue for yesterday on their HP Ads program, which might indicate they are skeptical about the massive increase in traffic too!!
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mistyhorizon2003, It looks to me (based only on what I recall from what you said last night, and based on not really doing any real "analyzing") that if you compare your rate and degree of increase since this started with mine, it (at least at quick, surface-level, glance at just the simple figures we've presented on this thread; there looks like there's some exponential factor (at least to me) with both your rate of increase and degree of it and my own. I started out with smaller numbers, and although it looks like I could be heading up to well over double figures (at least from earlier averages, rather than "a most recent "high") if things keep going as they have.
  
  I don't plan to bother trying to figure out my own figures (and certainly not yours ) in any more "depth" than I already have readily available; but it looks, to me, as if there may also be an exponential factor involved with the rate of speed at which the increases have been taking place.
  
  If I recall correctly, you may have been 1000 ahead of me last night, and I think your hourly increases were a at least, and generally, little more than mine were (maybe more than I'm remembering).
  
  Based on the most recent highs (the few days prior to yesterday), my 24-hour figure is just a little more than half of what it had been before yesterday (give or take a couple of hundred in a period where traffic went gradually up, settled on a "high average", and got to a "high" for a couple of days before yesterday).
  
  I don't have HP ads on because I do much better with Ad Sense.
  
  With only a quick scan to see if you have - like - 1000 Hubs and see what kind of Hubs you have (I didn't read any - sorry ); I see that you have far fewer Hubs than I do. Also, though, it looks to me as if your Hubs are more the kind of thing that is considered "a good Hub". (Mine are weird, as far as a "classic definition of a Hub" would go.)
  
  In other words (and whether this factors into the increase-thing or not, I don't know), it looks to me as if your Hubs are better than mine, for the most. If this increase has something to do with something like testing on Hubs that are what Hubs are "supposed to be", I can see how that could factor into your more dramatic increase as compared to mine. All just guessing and observing as things occur, though.
  
  The number of increases in views that show from one hour to hour may/may not have dropped a little for me.
  
  If things keep going up tonight the way they have today, it looks to me as if I'll have trippled my pre-weird-rise "low-average" in a couple/few hours; and trippled my PWR "high average" a few hours after. At the rate mine has been increasing, I don't see trippling my pre-weird-rise" today at all.
  
  In any case, the real point here is that whatever has been happening isn't "blanket happening" in the same way, and at the same rate, for either you or me (and however many others involved there are). The apparent exponential (and yet apparently consistent in some ways) factor lead me to suspect there could be more complexity involved than with simple glitches (not that I know anything about glitches) that do things like make everyone's "whatever" disappear for awhile until the glitch is fixed.
  
  Maybe I'm completely wrong about hunches, but I still think there's intentional system tweaking, adjustments, data collection, that type of thing going on within HP or maybe Google or maybe both.
  
  The only reason I'm posting a bunch of guessing-based-on-personal-experience is that if someone could use some feedback on what's going on - maybe it doesn't hurt to include what I've noticed, myself.
  
  (Oh, one factor with the exponential thing, if that's even accurate at all, might be that I pretty much never do backlinking beyond my own little pile of crap (oops, I mean "stuff" ). My traffic is close to all from Google and searches, so that keeps my own picture pretty simple in that way.)
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well I never thought my Hubs superior to anyone else's, but thanks for suggesting it I just don't know any answers right now and am hoping HP staff will comment soon with their thoughts on the current traffic increases that certain authors are experiencing.
  
  I would simply love to know if these increases are genuine or not, and if they are genuine why haven't HP credited HubAds accounts for yesterday? I have done better with HubAds than Adsense in recent times, and have tried switching off HP Ads for a month to see if Adsense was better, but it wasn't, so I am back on HP Ads. Probably depends on what kind of Hubs we write and on what topics as to which is the better income option.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
  0
  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think there are some things you can learn very easily like making a hub look like 'a good hub'. If someone does the the aesthetics bit OK they deserve some praise.
  
  Writing that carries the reader through to the end is more difficult- but I reckon that is learnable, too.
  
  The problem is, if you point out weaknesses in someone's writing you are likely to upset them. Upsetting people is OK if it helps them in the long run but you need to make the commitment to that long run. That's the rub. How much time is there in a day?
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure if anyone thinks someone else deleted my previous remark or not, but I'm the one who deleted it. I just thought that it took things away from the subject of the traffic increase, and the main subdomain matters, to let it stay posted. Before that I was only trying to analyze possible differences in increases as a way of figuring out if there was a consistent, or inconsistent, look to any glitches that may have been going on. That was all. The post I deleted strayed too far off topic. It was all just in the interest of enjoying the challenge of trying to do some objective analysis/guessing that I made the original post. (mistyhorizon and I had been watching the increases since last night and "talking" about them as they happened.) I guess we both (and a lot of other people) have the answer we were waiting to hear about.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Will, just because you get traffic, does not mean you are right. I would never dream of putting down someone else's hubs without seeing something obviously wrong, and even then I would hope to word it nicely.
  
  Correct me if I'm wrong but you are now basically saying that those of us who experienced a traffic drop have some kind of problem in the way we write? That you wouldn't want to help out on because it's an ongoing problem? Gee thanks a lot.
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  wavegirl22posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Honestly Izz I just read what he wrote a few times and it makes no sense to me.
  
  Will can you clarify this?
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't sure what to make of some of it either, I thought maybe Will thought I'd been "whining" because I said misty got a bigger increase than I did. To be honest, I thought maybe he'd seen some of my writing and had ideas on how to improve it. THEN I imagined the deleted post of mine may have looked like I'd somehow been insulted . I have a feeling there was just some miscommunication/misinterpretation somewhere along the way with this particular little bunch of posts. It really never occurred to me, though, that Will was commenting on anyone who's traffic hasn't yet seen an increase at all. (Maybe he was just throwing in his own thoughts separate from either misty's or mine? ) All I know is I've been cautiously happy about my own increase and am happy for anyone else who saw one (tend to think more may be coming for others).
  
  In the meantime, and in a somewhat sobering note: I think mine peaked out a couple of hours ago. For the first time since last night I saw a very small drop back. An hour later, another tiny drop. I know there'll always be ups and downs, but I'm kind of afraid to wake up tomorrow and see what I find as far as traffic goes. (I know the laughing things about the Will post look weird, but I was hoping to keep some levity, in view of the fact that I do think it was a case of "wavelength" differences. The laughing things about the traffic: I'm already planning to discover that the joke has been on me this whole last day. )
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I dunno, Lisa - I saw the same kind of drop 2 or 3 hours ago. Two small drops, but now the 24 hour figure is once more higher than I've ever seen.
  
  It does seem, though that I'm somewhere near the top, and like you I almost expect to find an ocean of blue tomorrow. I don't think I'll forget this day, however - very nearly 1/2 my hubs have at least one red arrow. That's not likely to ever happen again.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The drop is normal, it#s an overnight thing depending, of course, where you are in the world. Your traffic will be back tomorrow
  
  Meanwhile, I've put off saying, the post you deleted was probably one of your best and most insightful ever.
  
  Hey have a little faith in yourself, girl!
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Izzy. I hope you're right (but I'm kind of beyond really caring if it turns out to be - like - 50 tomorrow. Between six months of Panda and the hurricane that's apparently heading toward us, I'm kind of immune to whatever comes or doesn't come my way. )
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STAFF
Paul Edmondsonposted 13 years ago

This account made no major changes to their content and at about the 30 day mark their traffic recovered. Seems like the majority of the sites that fell happened August 10th.

We are working to mine the data we have to see if there are other recoveries and how many days they were down. This type of recovery is more like a penalty being lifted than Panda.

Interestingly at 6 months to the hour since the initial Panda rollout we are seeing a widespread increase in traffic across old and new Hubs.

We are having a technical issue that is preventing earnings from getting certified, but we can confirm a significant increase in traffic.
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  Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  that is great news!
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  Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Paul
  
  It would be interesting if we have been experiencing this entire site being 'sandboxed' by Google for the last six months.
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wildernessposted 13 years ago
Well, I see HPads results from yesterday are out, and with good news.

While adsense did nothing for me, HPads income was in line with the increased traffic. Now if only adsense and Amazon will follow along...
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My HPAds income is well up too, great news. Made over $10 yesterday, which is nearly treble normal levels. Hope this lasts, even if I will never get rich on it
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Same here - yesterdays HPads was nearly $10, which is just a little increase from the normal $2.
  
  Interestingly, the CPM was also up by nearly 50%. I wonder if our hubs are being seen as more "valuable" now, and worthy of a higher priced ad. That would really break my heart!
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  WriteAngledposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well my CPM yesterday was about half of what it has been, and a 50% increase in views translated into a 5% increase in income. Of course, there is no way of finding out why because we are not given any useful information about this dodgy scheme.
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi WriteAngled,
  
  When there are surges like this, it's usually because Google's ranking you for keywords you didn't rank for before. You can check your stats to see if that is happening to you.
  
  If so - if, that is, a whole bunch of new and different keywords are turning up your pages - then any contextual advertising on your pages will be way out of whack. Depending on how well-matched your pages are to the new keywords, your visitors will be less or more inclined to click ads.
  
  Another part of it is that depending on how well the new keywords match the old keywords in topic area, your pages will already - or will not yet - be optimized (by the advertising network, like AdSense) for those keywords. (You may already know that it takes a while - days? Weeks? Months? depending on their data - for AdSense to figure out the best ads to display.)
  
  Yet another part of it is visitor geolocation. If you are experiencing a surge from another country out of proportion to what you were before, then those international visitors may see a more limited - or expansive - ad inventory than your previous visitor base.
  
  All these things put together - and gosh, more factors, too, probably - will mean that many will see pretty drastic differences in CPM, CTR and earnings during this surge - or if by some wild chance it's permanent, during the initial period.
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Marisa Wrightposted 13 years ago
Off topic, but I've posted two threads about how to set up the "rel=author" thingy for your HubPages profile (so no need to wait for HubPages to do it), and no one's noticed. I think it's a pretty important thing to do, so get to it people!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Marisa I still have both threads opened. I'm going to look seriously tomorrow.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought they had already done it!
  
  Guess I'll be doing some thread-searching tomorrow. Thanks, Marisa.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They've linked our Hubs to our profile, but that achieves nothing until link our HubPages profiles TO our Google profile to prove we really are the author. HubPages needs to do substantial programming to get that to work for each Hubber, and they've can't get to it till September.
  
  The new instructions from Google enable us to do it for ourselves.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think many people are concerned with privacy issues around the profile. The data is easy to mine: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/25 … base_dump/
  
  Also a lot of people were dumped for using false names although Google promises to be more circumspect in future.
  
  http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 … ke-account
  
  I would be happy if I could use my pen name publicly backed up by my real name with that data kept private.
  
  To be honest, I'm going to let other brave souls see what the pitfalls are before I get involved.
  
  The advantages of the rel author tag are obvious, though and when Google starts boosting pages on the basis of credible authorship, I suppose it will be mandatory.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  2nd link refers to Google+ which is their version of Facebook. A bit different to what Marisa is talking about.
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is all part of the encroaching darkness.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Google dumped a lot of people for using obviously fake names, like nicknames.
  
  I'm still there
  
  There's also nothing to stop you creating a new profile using a different email address, separate from your other stuff like Google Analytics etc. There are millions of people in the world with the same name, they don't know both accounts are the same person unless you tell them.
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  Danette Wattposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  could you give us a link to those? I'm trying to do all I can to up my views, ads, etc.
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OldSkoolFoolposted 13 years ago
I'm not really feeling it. This isn't facebook, I shouldn't have my own sub domain. Doesn't seem very relevant to the content in general.
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Marisa Wrightposted 13 years ago
My traffic has surged overnight, higher than it's ever been - but there's something fishy about it. My bounce rate is absolutely horrendous - it's like what happens when you get a spike from StumbleUpon. Heaps of people taking a brief glance at a Hub, then leaving immediately.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bounce rate and time on site crept up very slightly the last two days compared to the previous couple of months.
  
  The only thing that changed much at all is % of new visits, which I would suspect with a huge influx of SE traffic and google dot com traffic is more than triple what it was.
  
  My traffic from my subdomain hasn't increased by the same percentage the rest have which is probably why the bounce rate is up that small amount. Or at least correlating with it.
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Will Apseposted 13 years ago
Just to reply to Lisa's earlier (deleted?) post.

I was talking in very general terms about the difference between a hub that looks good aesthetically and that genuinely reads well.

You seemed to allude to that and I was picking up on it (tangentially perhaps).

I was also trying to say something along the lines of: it is easy enough to point out problems in layout, keyword use, picture placement etc someone might want to consider but it is a nightmare to try and offer really simple advice about writing style.

I remember how upset I used to get in my twenties at the faintest breath of criticism. Now, I think I am pretty realistic about my capacities. I ain't a great writer and I don't want to be. Nowadays, my ambition is to be as professional as I can. That means there is a lot of learning ahead of me.

It is interesting that Hubpages is pushing all the writing advise right now. I reckon it is probably the biggest issue for most writers here given the new 'write well or die' regime emerging.

Certainly, if anyone believes that they are the finished article as a writer, I reckon that is dangerous. There is always room to improve.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And your point is?
  
  Sorry run that past me again, I'm sure I could do with the advice
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  Will Apseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actual advice? I would be pilloried. Take pity on me.
  
  edit: I just noted the 'advise'. Lol.
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michifusposted 13 years ago
I have taken Ryankett's advice (thanks Ryan) and have gone through my hubs and removed my RSS links to the latest and best. I had done this before around the first panda strike, but I found that I had left quite a few in. I also added loads and loads of in text links to my other hubs pre-panda, which I have also now removed.

I have been rewarded with a sea of red triangles today, and even if you take out my own 88 visits to my hubs, my traffic is on the up again.

Is this the answer to everyone's recent traffic drop. Definitely not, but it is a step in the right direction for me at least!
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WriteAngledposted 13 years ago
Thank you, Fiction Teller. That explains some of it. However, is it not the case that a lot of HP Ads (as opposed to Google Ads specifically) are not actually anything to do with the subject of the hub?

I won't argue with being ranked for extra keywords!
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  Fiction Tellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No problem....Good point - I think yes, a lot of HubPages ads are not contextual but sort of generalized display ads, but AdSense is also integrated into the HAP. I guess the amount of variance you see, then, will depend also on how great a proportion of ads are contextual.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found that too. I was playing with several hubs yesterday, looking at how they were ranked, and found one hub that was on page 1 for 3 different keyword phrases. That would certainly give rise to more traffic!
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Eric Graudinsposted 13 years ago
"Earth to hubpages management,
Earth to hubpages management."

You might want to change that huge home page text heading that reads:

"WRITE ABOUT ANYTHING AT HUBPAGES"

Because that's a teensy bit misleading.

Don't you think?
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you on that Eric. HP needs to state that the topics will be restricted and income can only be made on those that do not break any of their TOS. Sure, write about anything you want, porn, selling weapons, sexual acts, humorous innuendo etc, but you will not be allowed adverts on those Hubs, so won't make a dime if you choose to write on those subjects.
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Richieb799posted 13 years ago
I will have to wait another year then lol
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1. 87
  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Afraid it looks that way Richie
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