The Subdomain Switch ...What's Happening with you?

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  1. Hope Alexander profile image78
    Hope Alexanderposted 8 years ago

    Well, I have some good news. After filing for the re-inclusion request as suggested by Paul, my traffic has returned at a higher level than before the plunge. Things were very bad for a week or so, but they're back on track now. So take heart other plungers, if you were in a similar position (large account with a sudden drop occurring only after the sub-domain switch) it may have been the case that Google slapped a penalty on you, which could be removed if you ask nicely.

  2. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 8 years ago

    @Hope Alexander

    We were looking at your traffic today to see if your recovery continued.  We saw it started to comeback two days ago which is amazingly quick.  Did all you do is file the re-inclusion request? That seems awfully quick to be processed, so I assume something else triggered your recovery.

    1. Hope Alexander profile image78
      Hope Alexanderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I noted a small increase the last couple of days, but tellingly (for me at least) although my traffic was up, the Google portion of it wasn't. Even when the overall traffic was up, the direct Google portion was only about 1200 hits. Today it is 20 times that amount. I now have 20 k hits direct from Google in the last 24 hours.

      Obviously I don't really know what triggered the recovery specifically, but I filed the re-inclusion request about a day after you suggested it. So it's been a week or so. I suppose it's possible I got lucky and it got seen to quickly? Or maybe whatever penalty I got hit with was lifted for another reason.

  3. Isabella Snow profile image85
    Isabella Snowposted 8 years ago

    Like Hope (hey girl!) I don't normally post in the forums anymore, but I will post the following bits of information. Also like Hope, I've been using HP for 4 years and I've also got more than 13M views. At the moment I've got 930 published hubs, though that will go up quite a bit in the next few days as I publish those I've already written.

    Unlike Hope, I was affected by Panda and my traffic/earnings dropped somewhere between 40/50 percent. But I was still quite happy with my earnings despite this, so I didn't really complain.

    After the subdomain switch, which I did near the end of July, my traffic/earnings went back up to pre-Panda levels.

    As of last week they (traffic/earnings) are now at least double what they were pre-Panda. And while I've had huge spikes in traffic to specific hubs in the past, which brought in good money during the spike, this is an increase across the board and very evenly distributed.

    (Note that I don't use HP ads, b/c the USD is too up and down and Adsense pays me in Euros... though I do use Amazon as well, but boy do I wish they'd pay in something other than USD)

    I have no secret... and I don't write hubs geared toward what I think will make money, because I've discovered that I've got no idea what's going to make money and what's not. The truth is, I just write about what I know, and what interests me on a personal level, which are usually things I've got direct personal experience with. As a reader I can spot these characteristics in someone else's writing, surely you can as well? I know that when I see something that has obviously been written for the sake of making money, it puts me off and I go to back to Google and search for something less insulting to my intelligence. My guess is that many, many other people are the same, so some of you might want to focus more on what you know, as this will make you far more credible in the eyes of your readers.

    I've mentioned before that I do not backlink and I never have. In fact, I've never even really understood the concept. I don't think even about seo anything when I'm writing, and I don't do any special research beforehand. I realize those methods works for some, I'm just saying I've never done it. Hurts my brain to even think about trying. I don't write in niches, either, though it may seem that way at times if I'm particularly interested in something specific. I have no idea what is going to make money until I start seeing it. And for the record, you do need to give hubs time before they start making money, though that period of time seems to decrease the longer you've been here and the more hubs you've got published.

    I'll wrap this epic post up by saying HP is a company I trust completely, managed by at least one genius (he knows who he is!) and probably more. I certainly wouldn't be here if I thought otherwise. It is in their best interests to see that everything smooths out across the board, and some of you (you know who you are!) need to lay off and let them do their jobs -- your complaints have been registered and they are doing their best. I sympathize with those still in the recovery phase, but I really have no doubt you will see a full recovery soon (though I admit I am baffled by Hope's story sad)

    Good luck everyone and try to stay positive! smile

    1. Hope Alexander profile image78
      Hope Alexanderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Isabella smile

      It's interesting how we have such different approaches, both with very good results. I think it goes to show that sustained effort over an extended period of time is the real 'secret'.

      I do back-link heavily via my own blogs, which I was glad about because when Google dropped me from the search results for a week or so, those links kept half my traffic flowing.

      I'm privately pretty sure that the subdomain switch triggered something for my hubs, but that seems to be over. (Fingers crossed, touch wood and all the rest of it.) Who knows.

      I too, trust Hub Pages. I think there are some issues with spammers and spinners, but the people behind the company have always been good and helpful. I'm more concerned about the massive and occasionally capricious 'G' who basically have everyone here by the short and curlies. No matter how much work you put in, they're the ultimate gate keepers who decide whether or not you're successful, and they can change their minds apparently on a whim.

    2. Mark Ewbie profile image85
      Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Oh shucks, I don't know about genius.. but thanks.  I should point out I don't actually manage HP - I'm more of an adviser really, let the grunts do the work kind of thing.

      But it's good to share and indeed, bathe in that love.

      Thanks again.

  4. Isabella Snow profile image85
    Isabella Snowposted 8 years ago

    Oh, none of what I just wrote was directed at you at all; I've been wanting to comment in this thread for a few days and after I saw your post, I figured I might as well, too. You were like the shot I needed to dredge into the mire -- I hate the negativity in this forum. I only listed the comparison to show what you've just mentioned: we have different approaches and have about the same overall traffic.

    I think your issue must have been a glitch of some kind... I am sure you will recover posthaste! Fingers and toes crossed for you! ;-)

    1. Hope Alexander profile image78
      Hope Alexanderposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Oh I figured it wasn't directed at me, I just wanted to talk about some of the good points you made smile

  5. kmackey32 profile image70
    kmackey32posted 8 years ago

    My traffic has more than tripled....

  6. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    Over the last couple of days, my income has caught up with the huge upturn in traffic so I am very happy indeed.

  7. Fiction Teller profile image60
    Fiction Tellerposted 8 years ago

    More shuffle in rankings.  Good day today, but in the last few hours I've lost ranking for many keywords.  Furthermore, a number of sites that weren't ranking then, are now.  In my areas at least, there's a big shuffle going on.  This may be a blip like SilverRose saw that one day, or it may be a blop.  We'll see...

  8. Sally's Trove profile image76
    Sally's Troveposted 8 years ago

    Something odd is going on for me...I've been away on vaca for the last 5 days, paying no attention to the online life, and I come home to find my traffic on HP is soaring way past pre-Panda numbers. Haven't had a chance to check out analytics or anything like that, but stagnating for so long with 200 views per day for the last few months and now coming back to 600+ views today...is there a cosmic happenstance somewhere, or are things actually working?

    1. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Paul Edmondson says he thinks Hubpages got out from under a Google penalty. Many of us are grateful recipients of the traffic rush. Some people have found their sub domains sand boxed, though.

      1. classicalgeek profile image84
        classicalgeekposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I know my subdomain is definitely sandboxed. I went from 700+ views from Google in the last thirty days, to 6 in the last week, and 0 for several days.

        1. WriteAngled profile image76
          WriteAngledposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This I find so difficult to understand! A large number of your hubs are on fascinating and unusual topics. I would have expected the big G to favour your subdomain massively.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
            Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I believe this is due to keyword stuffing being penalized.  I have checked one or two authors who got sandboxed and this as an example...

            http://classicalgeek.hubpages.com/hub/P … Pear-Flour

            ... is over the top with the keyword. 

            I am not trying to start an argument, or flame, merely offering a suggestion.

            The common denominator I see in penalized authors is keyword stuffing.

            Others might see something different.

            1. Sally's Trove profile image76
              Sally's Troveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Interestingly, if you look at the tags for this Hub, the keywords are not included. In fact, there are only two general tags. I find this puzzling, as in, if intentional stuffing were going on (which you never implied), then the boat was missed with tags.

              Anyway, I have no idea what this bouncing up and down is. My traffic in the last 5 days is far surpassing pre-Panda, with almost all of it coming from google searches from around the world. I'm not speculating, choosing instead to live in the "here today, gone tomorrow" state of acceptance.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image96
            Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Classicalgeek, you definitely need to spend some time with this tool:

            http://tools.seobook.com/general/keyword-density/

            I've checked a couple of your Hubs and keyword stuffing may well be your problem - not deliberate, but accidental. 

            I checked a couple of your Hubs and in both cases, your main keywords scored between 6% and 8%.  There's a huge debate on what the right percentage is, but I'd advise getting it under 5% to be on the safe side.

            Unfortunately, the Amazon capsule uses the keywords over and over, which doesn't help!

            Oh, and while you're editing, change your "related Hubs" feed to show only the first sentence.   Ryankett wrote a great Hub about how the "shortened description" creates a duplicate content situation,which Google doesn't like.

            1. Sally's Trove profile image76
              Sally's Troveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Marisa, which Hub was that...I've read it and thought I commented on it, but I can't find it. I think it would be quite OK to put the link in this thread. I followed his advice to the letter and I think that may have something to do with my wild upswing in traffic.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image96
                Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                It's odd because I can't find it now.  Why on earth would he delete it?

                For those who don't know, the basic advice is this:

                If you include a "best Hubs", "hot Hubs" or "latest Hubs" RSS feed on your Hubs, the descriptions create duplicate content, which Google hates.  You may also be penalized because the links are unrelated.  And besides, it's not allowed under HubPages TOS, so eventually your Hub will get unpublished for it! 

                A "related Hubs" RSS feed, showing only Hubs closely related to your keyword, is fine, and will help keep readers within your sub-domain - BUT select "first sentence only" to avoid triggering the duplicate penalty.

                1. Sally's Trove profile image76
                  Sally's Troveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Glad it wasn't just me...I thought I was losing it!

              2. classicalgeek profile image84
                classicalgeekposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I've been editing, hubs, and just wrote a summary for the prickly pear one. You know, it's really kind of strange, because I just got a writing guideline for a company I sometimes write for, and they recommend 1) writing at an eighth-grade level, which is evidently where most people read, and 2) to achieve that, break each piece into subsections with the topic of the subsection in the subheading and repeat the keywords in the subheading . . . LOL, talk about contradictions!

                Anyway yes, it's accidental keyword stuffing, not deliberate, and part of it could be the hubmob stuff so I'm going through and deleting those. I can find synonyms for prickly pear . . . anyone got a synonym for mascara? I'll also try adding some description to the Amazon capsules to bring the keyword density down. Thanks all. I can't do this overnight but I'll get there.

                1. CASE1WORKER profile image69
                  CASE1WORKERposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  mascara- eyelash lengthener?

                2. IzzyM profile image88
                  IzzyMposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Listen to Sunforged. He commented on the previous page. Don't go changing what isn't broke, when no-one at this point seems to know what is.

                3. Marisa Wright profile image96
                  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't see a contradiction there. You do need to use your keywords in the subheadings, which makes it even more of a challenge not to overdo it in the text!

                  You would've been fine but for the constantly repeated keyword in every Amazon product title, that's what pushed it over the edge.

                4. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
                  Kangaroo_Jaseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  What a funny I just came up with. Synonym for mascara - Panda Eyes (when one rubs mascara and makes the eyes look like a Panda's)

                  Funny due to the 'Panda' Google update six months ago lol

                  1. wavegirl22 profile image40
                    wavegirl22posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    funny  .. I always thought of them as Raccoon Eyes!

                    1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
                      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      lol Shari,

                      We have neither raccoons or panda's in Australia, except in zoo's, lol

                5. classicalgeek profile image84
                  classicalgeekposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I was up till 4 a.m. and got 2/3 of them done, so we'll see--I will have to work on the rest tomorrow. I even managed to talk about cooking rice without mentioning it. On the hubs I did fix I brought the keyword density down below 5%, anyway.

      2. kmackey32 profile image70
        kmackey32posted 8 years ago

        I cant seem to go to bed at night because I cant stop looking at the rising numbers. lol

        1. habee profile image91
          habeeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Same here!!

        2. viryabo profile image95
          viryaboposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          lol

      3. wordscribe43 profile image91
        wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

        Well, I was one of the "plungers" who lost traffic 8/10/11.  However, all of a sudden today I am having a great day!  Many of my hubs have that ever-elusive red arrow with the traffic stats to match.  I'm cautiously optimistic, however... this is only one day of recovery.  But, I'm thrilled nevertheless.

        I have spent some time reworking my hubs, so possibly that's one reason I'm getting some Google love again.  I also finally set up my Google profile (something I've been dragging my feet doing).  I doubt this has any bearing since I JUST did it this afternoon, but I'm grasping at straws.  I also published a hub yesterday and we know Google likes new content.  I also wrote a bunch of summaries on my summary-less hubs.  And, I deleted around 10 hubs that just weren't doing well and didn't have potential. Who knows if any of this is the key, but I figured I'd share the changes I've mde.

        I'm keeping a keen eye on the stats and am going to keep doing what I'm doing.

        Anyway, I am really hoping some other people are recovering, like Lily Rose, Izzie and Randy G, to name a few.

        1. shabarigirish profile image61
          shabarigirishposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for sharing what you did for increasing the traffic Wordscribe, I have written summery for 5-6 hubs and reviewed some hubs. I also removed RSS link capsules from some of my hub as suggested by Wilderness. I have yet to create a Google profile, i'll do it today. Hope my traffic picks up.

          1. wordscribe43 profile image91
            wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks... I hope it picks up for you, too.  You reminded me that I DID get rid of all RSS feeds, too.

      4. shazwellyn profile image71
        shazwellynposted 8 years ago

        Woke up this morning to see lots of red arrows!  Up... my traffic is increasing!  I have been getting rid of irrelevent rssfeeds that are NOT associated with hub topic, tidying up hubs and adding unique summaries.

        I now have heart to carry on.  I am so happy and grateful to have Mr Edmondson as genius extraordinaire and the team working so tiredlessly on our behalf.  It is for this very reason that HP are where they are today. 

        Ryankett was right about your Paul!  You cracked it! 

        http://ryankett.com/2011/08/google-pand … -the-panda

        1. Mutiny92 profile image73
          Mutiny92posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Congratz Shaz!! 

          I thoughts I had one red arrow this morning but it was just some raspberry jelly that got on my screen...false alarm!

      5. Fiction Teller profile image60
        Fiction Tellerposted 8 years ago

        ...and there it went. So long, traffic. We had a great thing going, while it lasted...

        Anyone else? 

        I really, really hope I'm alone here, for purely selfish reasons, of course, because if some are surviving, there may be something I can do...

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          No - I'm still seeing a nearly daily increase.  This morning showed the highest 24 hour figure (HP stats) that I've ever seen.  Even adsense clicks are up - very unusual for me.

          Sure hope you are just seeing a short term spike (the wrong way) and that it immediately recovers!

          1. David 470 profile image82
            David 470posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I hope everything maintains for the hubbers who are seeing increases  because October-December means good months for online revenue right?

            Not sure if the HubPages ad program will bring in a higher CPM, but the Google Adsense account should have spikes during holidays.

            We got Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas coming up.

        2. vanchen profile image78
          vanchenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You're not alone... I just went from 2500 views to basically 0!

          1. toygurus profile image55
            toygurusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            My traffic is way down today as well.

        3. Marisa Wright profile image96
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, me too. 

          Before this recent surge, my views were running about three-quarters of my pre-Panda traffic.  Then they suddenly doubled.  Now they're back to where they started, at three-quarters of my pre-Panda traffic.

          The surge always seemed strange to me, with a very high (90%) bounce rate and very short times on the page.  Closer to Stumbleupon-type traffic than the real thing.  Very odd.

          1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
            Kangaroo_Jaseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Marisa,

            For that surge spike, have you been able to determine where that traffic came from?

            1. Marisa Wright profile image96
              Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Mainly from Google.

      6. Sunnyglitter profile image82
        Sunnyglitterposted 8 years ago

        My traffic is almost back to all of its pre-Panda glory.  Thank God.

      7. Richieb799 profile image77
        Richieb799posted 8 years ago

        My earnings are already back to the same as they were in December and I forgot there were 31 days in August, so tomorrow could earn me that little bit extra to be my highest ever Adsense payment. Some of my earnings have come from my sites mind.

      8. psycheskinner profile image84
        psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago

        You might call it over-high keyword density because "stuffing" does sound a bit insulting to me.  I know I sure as hell never deliberately stuffed any keywords in a hub, or in fact used SEO at all.

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
          Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I was responding to a specific author. I haven't got the time or inclination to check everything. Stuffing is the recognised term I think.

          1. IzzyM profile image88
            IzzyMposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mark is being tongue-in-cheek here wink

            1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
              Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well, sort of.  Spade a spade and all that Izzy.  Check the hub I referenced.

              But I've said more than enough.

              It was originally a serious observation, grounded in some experience of pattern spotting and trying to understand what these penalties are for.

              I wanted to air the topic in the hope that someone else might have noticed and agreed, or have an alternative theory, other than Panda hates me.

              My selfish reasoning being that I don't want to make the same mistake.

              1. IzzyM profile image88
                IzzyMposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Hey you got the guy some much needed views!

                I actually don't think it was keyword stuffed. He certainly mentioned the keyword a few times, but it flowed in a natural manner. I didn't use a keyword checker, but it read perfectly.

                There are too many people jumping on a bandwagon here, trying to figure out why Google is penalising some subdomains, and not others.

                Not you, Mark, but one minute it's Amazon capsules, or it's RSS feeds, or it's overuse of keywords, or it doesn't read well aloud.

                None of us know.

                Google, like most high-tech sites are run by children! Have you seen their photos? Has any of them left school yet?

                Obviously deciding what should be at the top of the search engines is being decided by an algorithm that has so many variables that even the people who wrote it must be flummoxed by some of the results!

                They are still working on it, and it's far from perfect yet, when thousands of copies of my unique articles are showing up before mine.

                I do not believe that readability of my hubs is the problem, when I actually wrote the articles that are appearing above me.

                If this is happening to anyone else, take heart from knowing that whatever Google did, they got it wrong.

                I think we are in a period of change. Google so much want their algorithm to work, and it simply isn't fully functioning yet. Until then, we can expect to see quite a few 'dances'.

                1. Marisa Wright profile image96
                  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Which just goes to show Paul's idea of reading aloud doesn't work. The keyword does appear too often in this Hub (nearly 8%), but I think it's the Amazon headings and descriptions that are pushing it over the edge, and that's not part of what we read.



                  That's true, we're all guessing, but what else can we do? No one is going to give us a definitive answer, so guessing is all we have, and it makes sense to pool our ideas rather than all try to figure it out alone.

                  Truth is, It's probably a combination of factors - which would explain why some people are being heavily slapped (for having multiple factors) and some people less so (for having fewer factors).

                  I was about to write a long post summarising all the possibilities, but I think I'll write a Hub instead.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    If you do, please post a link.  In the makeover if you have to, but let us know!

        2. Amanda Severn profile image95
          Amanda Severnposted 8 years agoin reply to this



          Not sure this theory works for me either. I don't have any real product hubs other than one book review, and I've never set out to attract readers using keyword stuffing. I won't say my traffic has disappeared on quite the dramatic scale described by ClassicalGeek, but it's still down around 75% compared to pre-Panda. Having said that, I am seeing some small improvement yesterday and today.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
            Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Amanda.  I was referencing one specific hubber, and another couple (not identified) that I have checked.  Not you, not the Psychic one.

            The dramatic scale is the thing that says sandbox or panda slap or whatever.   It is a penalty.  Important to try to figure out why, as far as I am concerned, because I may be next. 

            No one yet has ever said "why, you might be right, silly me" and no one ever will.

            No problem for me.  As long as I can avoid the penalty which perhaps now we have moved away from the spammers, copiers, dodgy backlinkers and, dare I say, keyword stuffers - I may be able to then I am happy.

            I won't bother posting any thoughts here again that's for sure.  More freedom on my blog where at least I can say it into thin air.

            It's funny though. If someone said to me "might be your keyword stuffing" I might go and have a think and a look.

            1. viryabo profile image95
              viryaboposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              You wanna bet?? I wish i had been told. smile
              Just reading through this forum, going along quietly, and implementing suggestions is working really well for me. I'd hate to be sandboxed, and will be glad if someone (had) pointed it out to me.

              My earlier hubs are being worked on systematically, tags, summaries and all. I just hope it all pays off eventually.
              In fact, i think it will.

            2. Amanda Severn profile image95
              Amanda Severnposted 8 years agoin reply to this



              Mark, I looked at the hub you mentioned before I commented last time. As it happens, I did agree with you, even though I didn't say so. That particular hub had far too many references to the keyword, and if I was a panda I might have been tempted to slap it! I suspect the plungers are being punished for a whole long list of misdemeanours, including keyword stuffing, being overly promotional, too personal, etc etc...I certainly didn't take your comments personally, because I knew that wasn't my own particular offence. I do agree, however, that heavy use of keywords makes the text almost impossible to read and digest.

              1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
                Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Hi Amanda, I was being a little over sensitive.  I felt I had probably over stepped the mark, suggesting 'fault' with someone's writing, always a dodgy area.

                Hopefully, no harm done and we need to discuss this stuff.

              2. Marisa Wright profile image96
                Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I think "misdemeanours" is too hard a word.  A lot of the "keyword stuffing" is pure accident, sometimes caused by over-zealous headings and sometimes by the wording in Amazon capsules.  Many of the other problems are accidental, or were regarded as the right thing to do, pre-Panda.

                1. Amanda Severn profile image95
                  Amanda Severnposted 8 years agoin reply to this



                  I agree Marisa, I remember adding RSS feeds to most of my hubs pre-panda, because 'those in the know' suggested it would boost traffic!

            3. classicalgeek profile image84
              classicalgeekposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I did look, and I did fix 2/3 of them to bring the keyword density down below 5%. I did not understand that the Amazon capsules were the problem, nor did I quite get the message right away that if one hub was penalized my entire subdomain would be sandboxed, but I did after I slept on it. I spent last night until 4:00 a.m. taking your advice, and I did thank you, earlier in the thread. So there. wink Thank you again for taking the time to look at the problem and I apologize to you again for not understanding what you were saying immediately.

        3. Marisa Wright profile image96
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Psycheskinner, I don't think Mark is accusing you of deliberately keyword stuffing. Personally, I find it's all too easy to "keyword stuff" without meaning to, especially when you're dealing with a specialized subject.

          For instance, when I write about pointe work, I would normally use the word "pointe" enough to get slapped for keyword stuffing - purely because there isn't another word for it.  That's why I suggested trying the keyword density tool - to get a feel for how much is too much.

          I just checked Classicalgeek's Prickly Pear Hub and sure enough, the words "prickly" and "pear" are at nearly 7% - well into "keyword stuffing" category.

          Whether writing "flows" or not tells you nothing about whether it's keyword stuffed.  You have to remember that words in Amazon capsules also count towards the total, for instance.

          1. classicalgeek profile image84
            classicalgeekposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            That one (and all the rest, except one) are down below 5% and that one is caused by a software flaw reading "price" as "rice" (I think) in a hub about cooking rice. I did my best to substitute another word where I could but I don't really want to unpublish the hub because it's useful to people.

            I've been rewarded with an infinite surge in Google traffic -- from 0 views per day to 4 views per day after fixing 70+ hubs. I'm waiting for 90 days to see if that was the problem.

      9. Charles James profile image72
        Charles Jamesposted 8 years ago

        Until 2 months ago I never earned one dollar in a month. I took the subdomain jump as soon as it was possible.
        Last month I broke through the one dollar barrier and this month am on one dollar 56 cents so far. The figures are small but the percentage increase is huge.

        I have just over 70 hubs as Charles James, and the half dozen or so I have added over the last two months have made no obvious difference. I think it must be the subdomain switch. Well done HP.

        Well done also for adding the summary option. I am just beginning to work my way through preparing summaries for my hubs.

      10. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
        Kangaroo_Jaseposted 8 years ago

        Post 6 month Panda sandbox, aka, this last week, I cannot pin down the 2/3 increase intraffic for my hubs.

        I have redone and vamped my profile, including a video of yours truly.

        I have entered some summaries on hubs that have not had them before.

        5 Hubs have red arrows and traffic and they haven't had traffic in over 7 months, but they do this week.

        Still good to see traffic near pre Panda levels

      11. profile image0
        Amie Warrenposted 8 years ago

        All I know is that Suite101 is copying us, so it must be working. Their PV's tanked worse than ours, so now everyone gets their own domain. I don't write there anymore, and seriously, the way they are acting on the forums, I don't think there is any hope for the site.

        I don't track my views here much, because I have very few articles anyway. I do track adsense earnings, and I don't make anything here at all. Nothing. Nada. Zip. No Amazon either. Not a penny. I think I've made like $3 here since I started.

        I don't feel like writing when I'm making nothing, sorry. I am thinking of switching up my topic focus, though, doing more health, fitness, and herbal medicine. My friend has a blog with all that stuff and it makes more in adsense than her other blog that is three years older. Coudn't hurt to try, I guess, but right now, I just have no time.

      12. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 8 years ago

        My second account is showing a significant recovery today. There are only 35 or so hubs now, so it is not especially significant but it I am still pleased to see around 240 views in the last 24 hours.

        After the sub-domain switch, views peaked at 300 then the account took a knock from Google and plunged to 50 at its lowest.

        I deleted the very poorly performing pages- they might have been the problem and they were making no money, anyway. Then I was was careful to make sure I wasn't over using keywords.

        All the hubs were Amazon hubs and it is very easy to go overboard with product names. I removed as many as I could from picture captions and text but most especially from headers. Using an H2 header is like screaming at the Google bot.

        I reckon using the exact phrase from the Amazon ad in a header is the worst thing to do.

        Of course, there is no guarantee that anything I did made any difference, at all, but I'm putting it out here in case it helps others.

        1. Lisa HW profile image59
          Lisa HWposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It still seems encouraging that your other account has done that well.  Maybe more people will start to see that kind of thing starting to happen.  I didn't think it was "over" when so many people took that most recent hit, and I don't think the "reorganizing" of traffic is over now either.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I personally hate this volatility. I would like to relax and enjoy the huge upturn in fortunes on my main account.

            In regard to my second account- I should have mentioned that I never use RSS feeds so that was not an issue for me, at least.

            I also helped myself to a little juice from other sub-domains by making, hopefully helpful, comments on 3 or 4 hubs.

            Sometimes, a new link-in seems to trigger a Google reappraisal.

            1. Eric Graudins profile image59
              Eric Graudinsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              But - that's b-b-b-b-backlinking.
              And haven't you always told us that this is one of those foul, disgusting, SEO sins.

              I'm confused Mr. Apse. Please explain!

            2. thisisoli profile image71
              thisisoliposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Comments use no-follow apparently, haven't checked insite links though, can anyone confirm?

              1. Will Apse profile image89
                Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                You can check any hub with SEO Quake for no follow links.

                1. Richieb799 profile image77
                  Richieb799posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  SEO Quake uses Yahoo site explorer doesn't it? click on the Yahoo symbol for backlinks.

                  Those links at the top aren't backlinks they are internal links, which means inner pages of your site

                  1. Will Apse profile image89
                    Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    SEO quake checks follow or no follow without reference to Yahoo.

                    You can use Yahoo, though, to look at in-site links as well as links from external sites.

                    For in-site links hit the 'explore URL' button

                    My main sub-domain is getting around 19,000 links from within Hubpages.

      13. Hope Alexander profile image78
        Hope Alexanderposted 8 years ago

        Well, after the boost yesterday my traffic has halved again. Really at this point I don't think there's any point in speculating as to causes. I doubt it has anything to do with on-page stuff at Hub Pages. I've gone from a steady 30k hits per day down to 14k, up to 40k and back down to 20k or so. It's so incredibly volatile, as Will said, as to be ridiculous. I think we're all just going to have to hang in there until things stabilize in a few weeks (hopefully not longer) and then we'll see how things come out in the wash. It is very tiring though, especially after years of investment of time to have these seemingly capricious changes have such an impact on traffic and earnings. It certainly makes one wonder about the wisdom of pursuing this kind of income as a long term strategy.

      14. WriteAngled profile image76
        WriteAngledposted 8 years ago

        In another thread, Sunforged asks whether the huge plumbing ads could be affecting hubs negatively. I seem to remember HP saying that these would appear on hubs relating to home issues. Is there a common thread, perhaps, of sandboxed people having more home-related topics? If the Google algorithm is sensitised to over-large, brash ads, then potentially domains with a higher proportion of pages showing them might be more affected?

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I can't speak as to any commonality here, but around 1/2 of my hubs are home related and in the "home" category.  They carry those huge, ugly Drano ads.

          Traffic is still increasing, although I think I've about topped out at just under 3X pre-panda levels.  More importantly, at least for your question, is that it is primarily those home type hubs that are showing the largest increase in traffic.  My top hubs have only changed a small amount (up) but have now been overtaken and surpassed by home hubs that used to get 1/5 of their traffic.

          More importantly, at least to me, is that the CPM on HPads has shot up to double what it was, and it was always good.  In another thread Jason M commented that it was probably those Drano ads on all the "home" hubs that were causing it - they pay very well.  I really wish we could look at results from individual hubs in HPads, but Jason is probably right that those huge ads are giving a significant increase in CPM.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image85
            Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I wish I hadn't devoted my valuable time to writing a pisstake hub about plumbing now...

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Who knows?  It may be a money maker in a few weeks. smile

      15. sunforged profile image65
        sunforgedposted 8 years ago

        I really think "for most people" that keyword stuffing and over-optimization is barking up the wrong tree as potential problems.

        Unless you are doing it intentionally, then, well you would know wouldnt you?

        I would be willing to bet that most in this thread are highly under-optimized.

        On Page SEO isnt "tricks" .. its proper categorization. You SHOULD have keywords in images and h2 and in text. If your image isnt relevant dont use it, if its relevant it should be alt'ed in an appropriate manner for users with limited accessability, connections and or image based searches.

        an h-2 is a level 2 heading. A document should have relevant and appropriate h2, In most cases that will mean something very similar to the title (h1) which incidentally should be your target keywords anyway!

        anyone who tells you different knows squat about web design, making your articles less organized defines common sense hen working within the restraints of Ai document classifiers.

        of course, one can over-optimize and write in a spammy and unnatural manner but you will likely know you are doing it and wouldnt be in a forum thread wondering what happened. Plus... the lack of feedback, links, interaction and viewing time would be what dropped such a article back , not the appropriate use of "seo" tools.

        panda or no panda - online readers are scanners, if they dont see headlines and words and images that fit their search on first glance they will move one .. lots of moving on will lead to less visibility for you... and you will continue to decline.

        before speculating on keyword density and over optimization, make sure your article fits the leading terms for traffic, is properly optimized in the first place, check your bounce rates and viewing times.. these are the first steps and are usually enough

        1. Marisa Wright profile image96
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Sunforged, I expressed concern about bounce rates on another thread.

          My bounce rate is horrendous, around 90%.  The reason is simple, I think - when HubPages was one big site, if readers left my Hub to go to another Hub, they were still on the same site. Result low bounce rate.   Now, for most of my top Hubs,I don't have another Hub to offer them on the same topic - so they go to another Hub and that's not on the same site.  Result high bounce rate.

          To me this seems like an argument that we can no longer afford to write one-off Hubs about topics, but need to create a cluster around the same subject. Your thoughts?

          1. shazwellyn profile image71
            shazwellynposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            This seems to be working for me, Marisa.

      16. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 8 years ago

        The hub haters arrive, en masse. Exit reason, stage left.

        1. agvulpes profile image87
          agvulpesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Will, are you saying that the advise offered by Sunforged and Marisa is wrong?

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image73
            EmpressFelicityposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I'd be quite curious to know the answer to that one too.

            I've been fairly critical of the way in which HP has implemented some of the changes on this site over the last six months, so presumably that means that I'm one of the "haters".

            Actually, I've got news for you; we're not "haters" - far from it. Speaking for myself, I really like this site. I like the fact that it's so easy to use, and I've always enjoyed the atmosphere of, and appreciated the general helpfulness in, the forums (as long as you ignore all the b****y religion).

            I would dearly love to see HP return to its pre-Panda glory. But I am disappointed that the changes being implemented here often either don't seem to make sense, or are executed in what I consider to be an unethical or at any rate inappropriate way - Marisa's point about poor prioritisation is an apt one.

            Will, if you're happy with the idea of spun, crappy hubs flooding this site while long-standing members have their hubs unpublished for minor infractions (like pixellated images), or people having whole accounts banned while they are in the middle of attempting to comply with HP's latest rules, then just say so and I will know where you stand. But coming out with emotive labels like "haters" and "losers" just makes you look like a prat IMO.

            1. agvulpes profile image87
              agvulpesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm glad I asked the question smile
              EF I can't say I disagree with any part of your comment smile

          2. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            For what it is worth, I reckon Sunforged should try to find a way to forgive Hubpages for whatever slights he believes he has received. No one thinks straight if they are bearing a grudge.

            I doubt if Marisa hates Hubpages. She is here every day.

            I haven't a clue who EmpressFelicity is.

            And Eric? It would be nice if he could find some peace somewhere.

            1. EmpressFelicity profile image73
              EmpressFelicityposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Based on what you've said in this post, I am more than happy for this state of cluelessness to continue lol lol


            2. agvulpes profile image87
              agvulpesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Will, you did not answer my question!

              I would just like to have your opinion on these two 'well respected for their knowledge' Hubpagers!

              1. Eric Graudins profile image59
                Eric Graudinsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks for your concern. I am at peace Will.
                Just curious why you won't ever answer any of my questions lol lol lol


                Gee, that's out of character for him! lol

            3. Marisa Wright profile image96
              Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Will, Sunforged was one of several top Hubbers lionised by HubPages staff before Panda as one of HP's biggest successes - then after Panda, he found large numbers of his Hubs suddenly unpublished without explanation.  I think he has good reason to feel aggrieved.

              That said, his post didn't sound aggrieved to me.  He is offering advice based on his considerable experience as a very successful internet entrepreneur.  I for one hope he comes back and expands on his comment on bounce rate, I value his opinion.

              1. PaulGoodman67 profile image97
                PaulGoodman67posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Sunforged should certainly be respected for his technical knowledge.

      17. sagebrush_mama profile image60
        sagebrush_mamaposted 8 years ago

        Seeing a nice traffic increase today, after "plunging" earlier in the month...
        Received a message in WMT yesterday that there had been no manual penalty.
        Meanwhile, I managed to remove most rss feeds in the last few weeks, and finished getting my summaries on published hubs written, yesterday.  Some of the hubs that had sudden traffic increases before the plunge are now back in the position for keywords that I saw just before the plunge.  Curiouser and curiouser!  smile

      18. EmpressFelicity profile image73
        EmpressFelicityposted 8 years ago

        Sometimes, during a random browse of the Internet, you come upon something that is so relevant to the situation at hand that you just have to share it:

        http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/30000/0000/200/30227/30227.strip.zoom.gif

        1. Happy Human profile image68
          Happy Humanposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You are right...that is spot on right now...I want my unwarranted optimism back as well smile

        2. Richieb799 profile image77
          Richieb799posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This is Dilbert, I love his cartoons smile I even did a hub about him lol

      19. WriteAngled profile image76
        WriteAngledposted 8 years ago

        LOL!

        You can keep your unwarranted optimism...

        ... just leave me my delusion of competence!

      20. BristolBoy profile image67
        BristolBoyposted 8 years ago

        Had a quick look and it appears that no-one else has experienced similar (apologies if someone has - I wasn't about to read through thousands of posts!).  I was quite active on Hubpages a while back (2-3 years) but haven't written much in about a year.  My traffic was slowly increasing (passively) and with it earnings for the year up to Panda.  After Panda my traffic fell to 1/3-1/2 of where it was before.  After sub-domains my traffic increased back to where it was, and has since increased so it is now approaching double previous traffic and the different between this and previous peaks is this time my traffic peak is caused by all hubs instead of one which makes me think it is an across the board advantage.  Therefore, sub-domains seem to have worked well for me. 


        http://s4.hubimg.com/u/5459263_f248.jpg

        1. janderson99 profile image66
          janderson99posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Get Over IT ! Move ON! Its Spring - Down Under!

      21. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 8 years ago

        My second account has had 780 views in the last 24 hours. This is pretty good for 30 hardcore Amazon selling hubs. It is even better when you consider the account was down to a low of 50 views a day last week. Back then, it had 40 pages but it seems that the more I cut the poor stuff, the higher the good stuff rises.

        As far I can tell, most of my pages were sandboxed last week and the rest were suffering by association. Weeding out the clusters of over used product keywords in headers and picture captions is all that I really did- besides the deletions.

        As soon as pages started to come of the sandbox the account took off.

        1. Marisa Wright profile image96
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Good news, and might encourage others to follow your lead!

      22. Hovalis profile image78
        Hovalisposted 8 years ago

        I've been looking at my second account in absolute shock. My traffic did not start increasing when everybody else's did, and I haven't touched any of the hubs, but even with that, today my traffic is where it was before Panda. Half of me is celebrating, and the other half is telling me it cannot last. I hope that the half of me doing the little happy dance is right. It'd be nice to get a break after all the bad luck I've had this year. smile

        1. CASE1WORKER profile image69
          CASE1WORKERposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          hope it works out for you!

      23. thejeffriestube profile image68
        thejeffriestubeposted 8 years ago

        Someone really needs to change this thread to "Your account must be at least 2 years old to post."

        You know, after this post. :-)

        1. habee profile image91
          habeeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Lol!

        2. Sally's Trove profile image76
          Sally's Troveposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I share habee's "lol".

          I think many of the posters here in this forum thread have been here for a long time, have gone through ups and downs in traffic on HP, but also have been devastated by the Google Panda implementation at the end of February this year. And thus, there's a kind of reflection going on in this thread that represents folks who have been on HP for quite a while, as in 2 or 3 or 4 years.

          I'm finding an enormous increase in traffic over the last two weeks, but I don't think it's because of the subdomain switch, although that might have helped. I think it might be because I removed all news and RSS feeds from my Hubs as well as link capsules that showed anything more than the title of the page/Hub I was linking to, in order to avoid what Google may perceive as duplicate content. (Really, I have no expert experience in this, SEO guru I am not...I'm just trying to make some sense out of what I see in relation to what I do.)

          It takes time being here to figure out the plan that works best for you. So, thejeffriestube, I really appreciated your comment.

      24. indian cooking profile image67
        indian cookingposted 8 years ago

        The  sub domain switch has definitely done me good. My Hubs which were getting only 200-300 views after Panda Hit climbed up to the 700-750 level which is much more than what it was before the Panda hit wink.

      25. brandonhart100 profile image86
        brandonhart100posted 8 years ago

        I've had a wild ride... my traffic was gone for 3 weeks - recovered again - and now appears to be going down again. Up and down up and down. Guess it's going to be a roller coaster!

        1. sofs profile image88
          sofsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The drop was expected this weekend, hopefully it will climb back today smile

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            That one surprised me - I didn't get a drop this weekend.  Labor day itself set another one day record for me - just about 10% higher than I've ever seen before and Friday, Saturday and Sunday were all higher than the previous week.  I certainly didn't expect that.

        2. shabarigirish profile image61
          shabarigirishposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Same thing here too. It was up for one week after sub-domain switch over, one week down then again one week up now its going down. My hubs were ranking well for some keywords in Google search when the traffic was up and for same keywords no visibility of my hubs in search results when traffic is down. Yesterday there was a huge traffic and hubs were placed in first page but today my hubs are not in search results.

      26. Stacie L profile image90
        Stacie Lposted 8 years ago

        I don't think the domain switch helped me at all.

      27. brandonhart100 profile image86
        brandonhart100posted 8 years ago

        My last week was an all time high after dropping like a brick including and up until yesterday. I can tell today though that there is an immediate difference and that traffic has changed once again.

      28. Whitney05 profile image84
        Whitney05posted 8 years ago

        Still not seeing a drastic change.

      29. Pcunix profile image92
        Pcunixposted 8 years ago

        It's now several weeks from when I made the switch.

        In the meantime, I did remove about 40 pages from here that really belonged at my main site, so my article count dropped a bit and a few of those were among my most popular (popular being used in an extremely relative sense here).

        For the month of September, even though we are only half way into it, Hub Page Ad earnings are already double what they had been running all these months since that was implemented.  Again, we aren't talking big numbers - the typical income was small in previous months and had reached only $49.00 in total as of the end of August.

        Obviously the subdomain switch made a big difference, again relatively speaking.

      30. Rik Ravado profile image90
        Rik Ravadoposted 8 years ago

        I've kept fairly quiet up to now but this is my experience - like most people I was hit by Panda and saw a steady decline up until around the time subdomains were introduced.  I still didn't see the dramatic gains some people experienced with subdomains but my traffic incresed dramatically on both my accounts over 2 days, Aug 24/25. 

        My main account is almost back to its all time high while the secondary account (a tight niche) is way above the previous max and has a traffic increase of around 4-5 times the post Panda volume.  I'm not running HubAds at present but my Adsense earnings have more than doubled since late August.  Fortunately my traffic is very steady and I don't see the rollercoaster effect that many people here have experienced. 

        I'm very much hoping I won't now plunge!  I intend to try HubAds again at the end of this month as with such relatively high traffic I think I may earn more with them on.

      31. Richieb799 profile image77
        Richieb799posted 8 years ago

        I have seen a earnings return to pre-panda levels..I've got a nice passive wage being deposited into my bank account this month and I'm gratful to HP for all efforts made. However, most earnings coming from one hub.

        1. David 470 profile image82
          David 470posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I am praying (not literally) that I will make 300 dollars this month with adsense and HP ad program combined.

          That will be a personal record for me. I just wish payments happened earlier. I am awaiting both an adsense check and a HP ad program payment.

       
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