The Parallels Between Jesus and Horus

1. 71

   Rishy Richposted 14 years ago

   The sun-god Horus was worshipped nearly 1,000 years before the story of Jesus. Check these parallels:
   
   1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
   2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
   3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
   4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
   5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
   6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
   7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
   Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
   8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
   9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
   10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
   11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
   12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
   13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
   14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
   15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
   Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
   16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
   17.Both were baptized at age 30.
   18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
   19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
   20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
   21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
   22.Both have 12 disciples.
   23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
   24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
   25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
   26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
   27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
   28.Both were crucified.
   29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.
   30.Both were buried in a tomb.
   31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
   32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.
   33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
   34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
   35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
   36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
   37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
   38.Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
   39."The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'"
   40.Both were transfigured on the mount.
   41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
   Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
   42.Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
   Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).
   
   
   Approximately 46 Similarities were identified between these two, however some of the similarities are considered debatable. Although Im not confident about the authenticity of these parallels, I would like to know your opinion.

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   1. 80

      Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      In the beginning God (Gen 1:1).  He predestined Himself coming to us to save us (Jesus: Yehoshua - YHWH Saves) from the foundation of the world, shown in Rev 13:8.  He was first and anything that came about to counterfeit His plan was done so that forum statements like this could be posted...to draw people away from YHWH.  Why do you wish to participate in such a thing?

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      1. 58

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Because it is the truth rather than your nonsense. I see you did not address the question posed in any way and merely shoved your ridiculous beliefs in to the mix. So - Here it all is again. If you want to address the fact that it proves that your religion is a lie - please - feel free. Looking forward to a rational response rather than just defending your lies.
         
         The sun-god Horus was worshipped nearly 1,000 years before the story of Jesus. Check these parallels:
         
         1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
         2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
         3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
         4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
         5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
         6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
         7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
         Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
         8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
         9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
         10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
         11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
         12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
         13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
         14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
         15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
         Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
         16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
         17.Both were baptized at age 30.
         18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
         19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
         20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
         21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
         22.Both have 12 disciples.
         23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
         24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
         25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
         26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
         27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
         28.Both were crucified.
         29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.
         30.Both were buried in a tomb.
         31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
         32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.
         33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
         34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
         35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
         36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
         37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
         38.Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
         39."The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'"
         40.Both were transfigured on the mount.
         41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
         Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
         42.Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
         Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).
         
         
         Approximately 46 Similarities were identified between these two, however some of the similarities are considered debatable. Although Im not confident about the authenticity of these parallels, I would like to know your opinion.

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         1. 81

            Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The truth Mark? Lol. Really? Why dont you research these claims before letting your emotion carry you away in making claims you have zero knowledge about.
            
            People, when making comments like this, actually research what it is you are talking about.
            
            Horus did not have 12 disciples nor was he a virgin birth, nor was he born on the 25th of dec...etc.
            
            LOL, seriously, what happened to plain simple education?

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            1. 58

               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Defend the FAITH! LOLOL
               
               I don't see you offering any actual facts or information. Merely defending your ridiculous beliefs.
               
               Sorry - you got any evidence for any of this?
               
               Maybe if you just say "liar liar pants in fire" - oh wait - you already did.
               
               Oddly enough LOLO Jesus did not have 12 disciples nor was he a virgin birth, nor was he born on the 25th of dec...etc. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
               
               These are striking parallels that cannot be ignored.
               
               Defend the FAITH!!!
               
               Whatever happened to rational thinking? I blame it on a lack of education myself.

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               1. 81

                  Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I cannot tell you how much fun I am going to have with this. I encounter some of this stuff from incoming freshmen, who like you, get their info from viral videos on the internet.
                  
                  First of all, lets recap what you have stated so you cant back out. You submitted 42 parallels between Horus and Christ. Not only did you post them, you claimed in your following correspondence the following statements about the list:
                  
                  "Horus was a mythical being upon which your religion is based."
                  
                  "You do not deny that your religion is stolen I see."
                  
                  "You must be very angry to discover that the story of jesus is just a belief stolen from the story of Horus."
                  
                  "It astounds me that people will deny this. Sadly - they get their personal power from regurgitating myths."
                  
                  "I personally have seen evidence in favor of this."
                  
                  "These are striking parallels that cannot be ignored."
                  
                  "If you want to address the fact that it proves that your religion is a lie....this is the truth."
                  
                  Now tomorrow I am going to rebut your highly erroneous claims but first I want you to tell me what research you have accumulated to back up with evidential criteria your 42 claims. I am really curious where you got the evidence (especially in light of what Skeptic magazine stated about this). I am going to present scholars/historians (secular) as well as the original historical text that we glean our info from. I will even make a separate topic on this.
                  
                  Now remember Mark, you claimed over half a dozen times that the 42 "similarities" are supported by evidence and that people "astound" you when they dont accept this. Knowing that you, the atheist, base your views on evidential criteria, I am looking forward to the evidence including the mentions supporting these claims from the historical text.
                  
                  Now, dont try to backtrack, try not to pitch some sort of fit and refuse to back up what you claim. Now remember, you claimed to be astounded that people do not believe these 42 similarities.
                  
                  Surely Mark you didnt support these 42 "similarities" because of a emotional tirade against Christianity now did you?
                  
                  I, on the other hand, will provide evidence for what is actually written; from the historical text, scholars, etc.
                  
                  You have till tomorrow...

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                  1. 58

                     Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Looking forward to it. You think that your religion was not stolen from other, previous religions? OK - Be my guest.

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                     1. 81

                        Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Good I am glad you are looking forward to it, I am as well as I am very, very curious to see what scholars you are using to back up these claims.
                        
                        Rishy has already mentioned the ones he used to produce the list (and as any research will show, almost all of them are hacks). There is a reason that the Rational Response site, one of the largest atheist web sites on the net has given a warning about accepting these preposterous claims calling them "simply fallacious claims".
                        
                        But since you argued so vehemently that they are true I am really curious to see which contemporary scholars you are using since Richard Carrier and a host of other prominent atheists have steadfastly warned using these similarities as evidence as most of them are fabrications from Acharya S (which Rishy admits to using).
                        
                        Im going to bed, remember I want to see your evidence tomorrow concerning the 42 similarities.

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                        1. 84

                           CMHypnoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           If you want to read one of the most scholarly and respected works on mythology you should try Sir James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough'.  Trust me he is not a hack, but a very learned scholar.

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                           1. 81

                              Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Frazier? From the 19th century? The man who was dismissed in Anthropology Today and by other 20th century anthropologists who have stated that Frazier's “anthropological work that long influenced the greatest number of non-anthropologists”  Anthropologists like Bennett note that by the mid 20th century, Frazer and his disciples “were in dubious repute—even worse, they were considered old hat." Another anthropologist, Ackerman, points out that Frazer “does not appear in any of the professional lineages that anthropologists acknowledge today,” cites as the main reason Frazer’s old-fashioned research methodology: “he wrote vast assured tomes about primitive religion and mythology without ever leaving the library.”

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                        2. 58

                           Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           The ball is in your court Alan. I look forward to your  "evidence" tomorrow.
                           
                           Rather shocked at how aggressive you are. You really think your Jesus myth was original? How many similarities will prove that it was taken from elsewhere? 3? 1?

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                           1. 66

                              ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              PC, take it easy. it is highly possible that it was not taken from anywhere other than the "mythification" of historical characters that imprinted on our culture. it mushroomed again because it is coming from the same brain structure.

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                              1. 58

                                 Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Not really Woo woo. Even I know how the Xtian religion absorbed previous religions and adopted their myths as their own in order to "convert" the heathen. I see absolutely nothing new in the Xtian religion that was not adapted from previous myths.
                                 
                                 I even understand the underlying reasons and the only really interesting thing as far as I am concerned is the powerful switch from poly theism to monotheism and from female worship to male. Now - that aspect I find very interesting because I think it came with a more scientific understanding of the male/female reproduction process. All we really knew before was strong male wants many females and most primitive religions worshiped the female. And -with this knowledge - came a threat to the male - because any fool can see we can easy do without a dominant male. Hence the christian abomination of a religion which - if I believed in a god - I would say actually takes us away from it instead of leading us to it.
                                 
                                 Hence my disdain and desire to change the meme.

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                                 1. 66

                                    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    PC, the nature of memes is that it has a pre-existing susceptibility to believe something it recognizes as true in a relational way. The structure of the brain is in sets of triads. So if you "destroy" a memetic pattern (and you couldn't even if you tried), it will reemerge as something else, in some other form. Like say LUKE SKYWALKER.
                                    
                                    The triad is a recurring aspect of the natural world.
                                    
                                    I think what you are trying to do is destabilize a clique in society that judges people who are outside of that herd mentality. You are not combating a meme, you are invalidating the source of the clique.
                                    
                                    We both aim to share our perspective in the hopes that the people who judge will see that their basis for judging other people is an illusion.
                                    
                                    The apple tree in your yard has a hive of dangerous bees, you don't chop the tree. Neither do you beat the hive. You will be stung to death. You get a sack, you cover the hive in a bag and the bees can go crazy in there if they like. you're not in that chaos. And then, you transfer it elsewhere where there will be a lot of flowers. Happy tree climbing. Path of least resistance.

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                           2. 81

                              Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Aggressive? This charge is coming from you oh banned one? Not at all my friend, I relish this as I see it all the time in incoming freshmen who rely on internet videos for validity.
                              
                              Now remember Mark, you claim to have evidence for these 42 similarities. When I write a post in this forum challenging you to provide your evidence I will await for you to provide your evidence ok?
                              
                              What I do fully expect is for you to try to squirm your way out of it.

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                              1. 58

                                 Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 LOLOL Yes - aggressive, oh sock puppet user,

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                              2. 71

                                 Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 @ Allan
                                 
                                 The strongest point against Jesus' existence is that he never existed outside Bible! He cannot be traced outside the biblical gospels and none of these gospels were written in his lifetime!
                                 
                                 The topic is much more complex than u think it is & a massive amount of research has already been done on it. In one of my hub, you asked for the list of contemporary scholars who promoted it , right ? Well the number is so huge that I might miss a handful if I put a list. Since you are insisting, Im giving u a little glimpse here:
                                 
                                 1. The debate started long before 18th century & still being continued
                                 
                                 2. Among the early advocates: Bruno Bauer,  Constantin-François Chassebœuf, Charles François Dupuis (last two are usually identified as two thinkers of the French Enlightenment) are noticeable.
                                 
                                 3. In later times, major figures like Bertrand Russel, Karl Marx, J. M. Robertson, William Benjamin Smith, G. A. Wells & John M. Allegro promoted the concept & took a strong stand against Jesus' historicity.
                                 
                                 4. In modern times figures like Timothy Freke,  Peter Gandy , Earl Doherty & D. M. Murdock are notable.
                                 
                                 I think it is clear now that this theory is not another Internet crap. I know online videos & sites can be misleading. Hence, I suggest u that if u really want to learn the basis of this concept then go through Bertrand Russel (Why I Am Not a Christian), John M. Allegro (Dead Sea Scrolls scholar), G. A. Wells(Did Jesus Exist?) & the modern authors I have listed above.
                                 
                                 Thank You

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                                 1. 81

                                    Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yes it is crap and also, you are being a bit misleading. I asked for your list of scholars concerning the Horus debate but this doesnt matter at this point.
                                    
                                    As far as the Christ-myth proposition, the vast majority of historians firmly disagree with this.
                                    
                                    It will never gain acceptance in academia, it is pseudo rantings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myt … _reception
                                    
                                    Also, the list of sources you gave are a bit odd. You do know why Marx stated that? And you are mentioning nutcases like Murdock again (who recently got thrown out of a convention for her views that UFO's are invading), etc.
                                    
                                    Also, you are making an appeal to numbers. Just because you found a dozen individuals who state something does not make it true. There are currently over 100 millin people who believe the Holocaust did not happen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
                                    
                                    Rishy, go with the serious research and not youtube videos.

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                                    1. 71

                                       Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       As far as the Christ-myth proposition, the vast majority of historians firmly disagree with this.
                                       
                                       - Argumentum ad populum. Once the vast majority of paganists disagreed with christianity too
                                       
                                       - Talking of Marx & Murdock? I see you are skipping figures like russel , allergo or wells & I've got a feeling dat ur knowlege is limited within wikipedia.
                                       
                                       - You love ur historical Jesus, Dont u? Then why dont u find me a source outside ur gospels where jesus' historicity has been mentioned??

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                                       1. 49

                                          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Hi friends
                                          
                                          I think the only good historical source of Jesus historicity is Quran; and there is no other source as powerful as that; the Christians must except it; no compulsion.
                                          
                                          Thanks
                                          
                                          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                                       2. 81

                                          Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          
                                          
                                          I teach political philosophy and Intl conflict. On occasion we get incoming students, such as yourself, who have trouble diserning fact from fiction because they glean their info from youtube videos.
                                          
                                          Rishy, do the research yourself, I shouldnt have to do this for you. Outside sources:
                                          
                                          Cornelius Tacitus
                                          Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas
                                          Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia

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                                    2. 71

                                       Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Dont tell me u teach political philosophy in kinder garden but if u do then I would say it suits u.  None of the sources say anything abt the life events of christ, his message or anything factual & we have seen such sources claiming a lot of things like unicorn, mermaid, atlantis etc. Well a guy like u can fall for such things but not me. sorry.

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                  2. 51

                     WhiteJesusposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     If i "believe" you're gay, then you' MUST be gay. Because i believe it, doesn't make it true.
                     If i write a book and write my opinions and fictional stories and in there i state it's all real. Still not true.
                     You understand, right?

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               2. 51

                  annabelle762posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Even if all 42 facts about Jesus and Horus were false there is something in common, people worshiping some kind of god ( idol, savior..). I am sure that 1000 years before Christianity the Egyptians wore that Horus was a real god, but now we don't believe in him. so how do you know that 1000 years from now people are not gonna be worshiping another gods and look back and think what a silly beliefs this Christians had. Jesus is just the god in trend right now same as Horus was back then.  History has proved that.

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            2. 0

               loveachesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               This is true. Horus is a false god and we are warned about worshipping false idols and false gods. I trust the Lord's Word and stray away from falsehood. People that attempt to argue about this have not truly studied the word.

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         2. 56

            Johnrosehubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            There are so many proofs for Jesus ,, but not even a single proof for Horus ,,, Dont be deceived ,,, Even todays Date explains that Jesus born in this world ,,, But no proof on Horus ....
            
            Fake ......

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            1. 56

               Clifton Bartonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Even if Cheezus did exist as a man doesn't mean they couldn't have given false stolen attributes which I do believe is the case. The man Jesus wasn't as peaceful as you'd like to believe Judas Iscariot himself was a mercinary. No telling how many other militant types he had sucking on his bullshit tit. When his scheme to overthrow both the religious and roman authorities failed miserably someone "Constantine" gave him stolen attributes belonging to Gods and Godmen that had been around since the dawn of civilization. By the way the word virgin in Hebrew in the days the NT was written meant young woman not untouched by man. And just because the bible says Joseph never knew her doesn't mean a Roman soldier hadn't which some scholars believe.

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            2. 0

               loveachesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               i agree!

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            3. 51

               WhiteJesusposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               There's no proof of Jesus either (the white one). Lol. Just because the bible says it's real doesn't make it real. If u we're born and raised in China you would NOT be worshipping Jesus. All religion is regional.
               And Horus was real to them, just like Jesus is real to you, now.
               All these die hard Jesus brainwashed jesus fanatics just proves society has stopped advancing. You guys are all refections of reality. I used to believe in brown Jesus, but nothing made sense. Christians and Catholics can't even agree on many subjects, the comic book bible has been changing in meaning in its translations. Meaning Jesus or god or whoever didn't say what's in there. Some random guy decided to change it without notice from jizzus. And when u ask informed adults why hasn't he came back, it's ALWAYS a vague response. Or he/she don't give a f. It's a way to keep people ignorant. "SUNday" was when they worshipped Horus, the sun god. Another thing copied from the cristianos. Ever noticed why religious clowns have a low iq? It's hard to argue with them, when that's ALL THEY KNOW. Serious lack of education. They REALLY think that by believing they will be saved. Oh please, when i die that's it. And i accept that. If there's a hell I'll roast marshmallows. The whole bible/jesus story needs a makeover. It was a good story wheni was little. I have 2 degrees. In hvac and electrical. I never prayed because then i have to say, thank god i made it and got a good career. It's so stupid to me, how People pray after an incident, (example CAR ACCIDENT) and if the outcome changes they're quick to say "thank u god". BUT, IF THE SITUATION STAYS THE SAME THEY NEVER BLAME HIM. As if he listened to their prayers and changed the outcome. So one sided. He can only win. That's just pure ignorance, borderline retarded.
               Another thing, why they have to baptize you when u don't know what the heck is going on? That's a life-long commitment without your consent. They might as well marry you too. Have your life all picked out for you. I never saw the guy and i know books are printed. Whatever happened to his teen years and early 20s?? Hmmm, was he making too much wine...or hanging out with the ladies? Partying? Maybe the magic developed later, like in X-Men. When the mutants are young their powers are that good either. Lol. Telling me the bible is real because the bible says it's real is not an argument. People ALWAYS start with "in Gen 1:1 blah blah" or "the bible states in Rev 4:20 stay away from evil and keep believing in moi". He should just make a small cameo for everyone and wham! no more debating but instead... hide and seek. GAMES! Im not looking to change anyone's belief. Whether It's brown or white Jesus. That's another thing, IF HE WAS REAL, it's weird how some people decided to change their saviors skin, hair and eye color. It's like a man barbie. And those people who did it are likely "authors" of the bible or people of high respect in the church. I know if i posted a picture of my dad with lighter skin color on my facebook, he would have a fit and maybe even get mad and possibly ask me to take it down. But i respect my pops and i would NEVER EVER do that to him. I love him just how he is, balding and all, yet perfect in my eyes. But you guys disgraced your god. I guess he wasn't perfect to some, or all, since no one brings that up. I figured. Someone just want happy and jesus needed dire changes.
               On Dec 21 year 0010 or zero, because the earth wobbles on its axis, the sun "hid" for 3 days and started rising again on dec 25. Look for Sirius, which is in the VIRGO constellation. It's a can't miss. Next to it you will see 3 stars inline and they point to where the Sun comes up (rebirths) after being gone(dead) for THREE days. This doesn't happen now (in israel) because of the wobble. But it still happens in other parts of the world, just not israel.
               Google it.
               It's ok to keep believing if that makes you feel better. I'm all for it. It's so funny how theirs 42 parallels, but if one thing is slightly off, some idi...err i meant people get scared. They're probably thinking "wait! No jesus????then where am i going after i die???" That's when they feel obligated to discredit anyone and everyone without any proof but the bible.
               Also jesus was a jewish preacher, but no one listened (lol) and just made up christianity, and still people didn't listen and now we have Catholics too. That dam bible is not clear enough and is causing confusion.  Lol.
               As for me. Im good. Living the good life. Thank you me.

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            pencilpaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The theory that Horus and Jesus are connected is false. It was a myth started by the poet Gerald Massey in the 1900s. He was not a historian, and there is not any recorded evidence for his claims.

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               loveachesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you for the background!

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               WhiteJesusposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you i knew jesus was a mythological dude. Like Saturnalia and Mithras and zeus. They couldn't all possibly been born on dec 25 to virgin moms and have 12 disciples/friends/companions. All died and came back. Talk about plagiarism.

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         4. 0

            Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I'm Jewish, the Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony for a Jewish boy when he is 13 yrs old, and is regarded as ready to observe religious precepts and eligible to take part in public worship
            So your 12 yr old statement would be incorrect. He would not have celebrated Bar Mitzvah at the age of twelve.

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      2. 61

         Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         This is not about shattering faith Judah's Daughter, it's about finding the facts. What Rishy Rich has done is provided some rather startling and interesting information. So far, there's been no verification that what he's written if fact, and neither have scholars conclusively proven the OT and NT as fact. Faith is based on truth. So if there is any truth the OT and NT, then any other findings won't detract from those truths.
         
         The parallels between the two are rather remarkable. Some of the gods in Greek mythology have parallels to what is written about Christ as well.
         
         Now, how to prove all the information and stories in the OT and NT against such information Rishy Rich as provided is really the question. To bring fear into it is nothing more than demonic at best. There is no fear in truth.
         
         The statements provided are not backed by sources that verify them all as truth, but isn't it fascinating that such parallels can occur...
         
         It is to me.

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         dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Judah's Daughter- how does he take people away from anything?  I mean your saying that if a person reads what he wrote - it will turn them away ?
         
         Now doesn't that interdict what you are saying?  If a person spiritual in our creator-
         there will be no such - to be turned away by reading someone's opinion and/or truth.
         
         The problem is :  A lot of  people were brainwashed into believing what they were raised to believe.  ( without questioning anything)
         
         Now if a person really wanted to prove to them self for comfort- or what ever reasons-  then maybe they would start with:
         
         where did the word God originate from?  Google it-- or what ever search engine you use.  Or  what ever source you use.
         
         As for the letter  "  J  "   when did that alphabet come into existence?
         
         As for the word  " Jesus"    I  didn't think the man was Latin ?
         
         May we really ought to research where it all began?  Because I didn't think it begin in ENGLAND-  and I  really don't trust the queen- do you?
         
         Did you know there was some german placed in the KJV Bible?  I really have trouble  trusting  them either since the holocaust.

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            dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            opps - > you know what I am saying--- counter dict what your saying

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   2. 0

      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is written in the Bible that darkness came upon the land of Egypt. This was a sign that God is stronger than any of the Egyptian gods.
      
      Exo 10:22  And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
      
      Exo 10:23  They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
      
      
      Notice there was no darkness upon the children of Israel.
      
      Jesus was before the beginning and He will be after the end. Many prophets of God knew this. No matter what type of so called evidence anyone brings, Jesus is the beginning and He is the end.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         So you have no response then?
         
         So-called evidence? LOLOLOLO
         
         Like - facts you mean?
         
         Your god is stronger than the Egyptian gods? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
         
         You do not deny that your religion is stolen I see. Thanks for the laughs Dent. LOLOLOLO

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            SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Glad you find it funny.

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            1. 58

               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Very funny. If it wasn't so sad, it would be hysterical - 2000 years of wars caused by that sort of thinking is actually sad.
               
               "a sign that God is stronger than any of the Egyptian gods"
               
               Really sad.

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               1. 0

                  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Make that 2000 years of wars, and then some, caused by evil men.
                  
                  This is what is sad. You find beliefs to be at fault when vbeliefs are just beliefs. It is the heart of men that are evil and twisted.

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                  1. 58

                     Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Dear me. So - your ridiculous beliefs are proven to be a lie and here you are fighting for them and causing ill will.
                     
                     Beliefs are just beliefs. LOLOL
                     
                     You got that right.Not capable of causing any friction - right Dent? Anything you say is just a belief and therefore not true and worthless nonsense. Thank you. I agree. Glad you can finally see that. Sorry your religion was stolen from another, better reliugion that did not cause fights.
                     
                     You must be very angry to discover that the story of jesus is just a belief stolen from the story of Horus.

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                     Clifton Bartonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     The smartest thing you've said during the debate.

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            WormStarWebberposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Mark Knowles, you have yet to give any proof or citations about your allegations. I have really done my research, and yes out of those 42 mentioned parallels  some are quite the same, but not all. It clearly states in Egyptology that Horus's mother was Isis not Meri, and second in hieroglyphs it clearly shows her hovering over the ERRECT PENIS of Osiris, therefore your "she was virgin" allegations drop from the tree. And with that one difference, it makes it a whole other story.
            I repeat once again. You have no posted any certified evidence of anything backing up your "theory".

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               vector7posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               See the dust flying? That's cuz they shut this down long ago friend. Five years ago. And if you want intelligent conversation, knowles is the last you want to "communicate" with.. If that's what they call what he does.

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                  frentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Documentary evidence that the Jews plagiarized Egyptian stories and made them their own is overwhelming. So in reality, there was no Adam and Eve, no Noah, no Abraham and no Jesus. Those characters were built around Egyptian, Babylonian and Persian stories.
                  And for Allah, well Allah was always there. He was the Moon God of the people of Mecca.
                  We must believe in what is possible and not Hocus Pocus or Superstition. Like writing a message or taking a photo with an instrument the size of a match box and sending it millions of miles away.
                  Last month we landed a space craft on Pluto after a 9 1/2 year journey and 4.7 BILLION MILES. Scientists were able to calculate the EXACT landing date and time within 11 seconds. THIS my friends is REALITY.
                  Take away the impossible , magic and improbable from religion and nothing is left.
                  To recap, the Jewish Torah is based on Egyptian stories, the bible is based on the torah and the koran is based on the torah and bible.
                  You cannot make a silk purse from a swine's ear.

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                     vector7posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Ah, we have a rookie. Should we call you frent or do you have a nickname.
                     
                     Please state the "purpose" of your post and to what quote you are referring.
                     
                     Surely you didn't read my mind and reply.. Wait, are you Mark Knowles in disguise?!
                     
                     Sorry buddy, your facts and experience show and your words weigh about as much to me as well... thin air. Unless you really are Mark.. which I would ABSOLUTELY believe, and that would also explain a troll answer to a general statement about dead threads. lol
                     
                     Not to mention your layout is... ugh.. not a layout or functional. ahem kindly that is.
                     
                     I've danced this dance much longer than you think for one. And also, I STILL have no clue what you're "replying" to....
                     
                     But thanks for the attention. I always love some of that.

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         3. 0

            loveachesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I think the Highest has proven his power over Egypt plenty of times. You are lost.

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         Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No where to go SirDent. Its all just stories.

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         Humanist2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         The bible also says that Lot got drunk and banged his daughters. It is all man-made garbage.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for posting this long list, Rishy Rich - a couple of weeks ago I was on a site which detailed the same similarities between Horus and Jesus - but also about collective similarities with Horus, Jesus, Krishna, Mithra, etc and at least 6 others...but I went over to my squidoo account to write and deal with the topic of these similarities.
      
      Unfortunately I mismanaged by bookmarks (damn me, testing out new browser attachments and gadgets lol) and couldn't find the Horus list, so your posting is exactly the info I just spent the last 20 minutes trying to find...
      
      How coincidental is this? Horus must have had something to do with it, perhaps....
      
      lol

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Awesome .

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There are probably around 40 other gods with a similar profile. At least we have some solid proof about the beliefs of the Egyptian gods.
         Hard copy in the form of hieroglyphics and text. All nonsense beliefs of course, but almost certainly the source of the biblical stories.

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            SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            I couldn't help but notice you said almost certainly. So I sense a hint of doubt?

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            1. 72

               earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Sure, Sir Dent. I think that some interpretations of the meaning in these drawings and text could be wrong. In fact some meanings are very much open to interpretation to this day. So, no absolutes.

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               1. 0

                  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you.

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                  1. 57

                     Brian Pickellposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You know SirDent.. There is absolutely no evidence that the stories in the Bible are true either. They are stories that are written by Men i.e. John, Luke, etc. Or at least supposedly. For all we know Constantine made up the names... Actually now that I think of it, How many Arabs do you know that are named John, Mark or Luke? Why are they the gospel according to John, when the odds of him actually having an English name are slim to none?
                     
                     For every story in the bible old and new testament, there is a contradiction to that story somewhere else in the bible. OK for most of the stories would be more accurate, not all stories.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Rishy Rich,
      
      Where did you find this info? Since the thread has been open for a few days, and I happen to like Egyptian mythology stuff anyway, I've been doing some double-checking...
      
      On the 1-42 points list, there are a few questionable points.
      
      Points concerning the (1) "virgin" (28,29) "crucifix" (31) 3 days in the grave (31) resurrection. In point 31, resurrection  (Christ) and reincarnation (Horus) are DIFFERENT concepts, not the same thing (the transformation is different, although both involve a transformation) but are treated as "resurrection."
      
      For point 1, the claims of Horus being born of a virgin seem to be "later" versions of myth...thus, altered mythological accounts from fairly recent stories.
      
      For points 28, 29: Egyptians and other nearby cultures may not have practiced the execution method of crucifixion prior to when Scriptures say Jesus was crucified...still checking on things related to WHEN different cultures actually used this form of execution...

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   6. 81

      Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No, no, no. No serious scholar accepts this crap. This is from the Zeitgeist movie which even the leading atheists will not validate.
      
      Read what Michael Shermer said about it...

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      Danny Zanelottiposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There are many incorrect statements in this, but to keep it short, I will name a few:
      
      Meri, was not the name of Horus' mother; it was Isis.
      Horus was not born on Dec 25, nor in Dec. According to Egyptian texts, (and converted to our present day calendar), it was in August.
      There is also no mention of:
      Visited by 3 kings
      A great star in the East
      Walking on water
      
      Finally, the story of Horus, is that he was conceived from a magic spell casted by his mother, and dead father. His father (Osiris) was killed by Horus' brother; so obviously Isis was not a virgin, and there was no virgin birth of Horus.
      
      I know the movie Zeitgeist states those as similarities, but they did not research their info, only printed it, just like the author of this blog.

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   8. 52

      tbird13posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Your sources Rishy?  Here's a link to MUCH better research on this.
      http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/h … onnection/

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         Ramon Requesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Great site!
         
         Also here you will find all of these connections debunked:
         
         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

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   9. 56

      Peter Walrathposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No truth to the virgin birth either... or the other babtist guy... in short it is mostly a bunch of bull. Seriously, not even worth discussing. I hate how people just assume stuff they read has any truth to it.

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       jacharlessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The Horus similarities are interesting given he was considered a demi-god. Since they are based on mythology -Osiris, Isis, etc, among many other local deities, I can see how such a story would fit in with that of Moshiach. Many stories of old overlap. Many have similar events and equal differences. There is info to suggest parallel prophets from various theologies having the same. Coincidence or Providence? No one really knows. Perhaps the story of Horus was a precursor to Mosiach. Perhaps the date is inaccurate, perhaps not.
       
       What we take away from the stories is what matters most. Regardless the medium, the end result is to be given insight into the reality of why we exist, our true nature -or better said the nature intended for us.
       
       To scoff as "nonsense" or hold as absolute "truth" is both childish and stiff-necked. Just ask or read about  the Hebrews, who because of such stiff-necked ideals, became the sole bearers of the harshest lifestyle of rules/laws possible; the harshest of treatments by their god, for thousands of years. A lifestyle that led to numerous enslavement's, troubles, wars -even today, even in Horus time, even in Moshiach time...
       
       Cheers,
       James.

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   11. 52

       Jacques Guillotposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe this would be helpful.
       http://thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html

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   12. 56

       Robert J Seeberposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus was just one of many prophets or messiahs who were carefully planned by the Anunnaki to keep humanity fearful and obedient to the those who ruled the world and still rule it today. They control our day-to-day lives, what brands we consume, how we dress, what TV shows we watch, what we drive, what beer we drink, where we go on holiday, the price of oil. They reside among us, controlling our affairs and are behind such organizations as the Bilderberg Group and the Skull and Bones.
       
       Jesus was the most successful of the planted messiahs. He managed to plant seeds of obedience and unconsciously spread the principle of ‘divide and conquer’ among humanity.

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       Ramon Requesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       This has been debunked many times over. Here are two sites that debunk this myth of connections between Jesus and Horus.
       
       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey
       
       http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/h … onnection/
       
       God bless Jesus, our true Messiah!

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          Humanist2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You are a f-kin moron.

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   14. 56

       I-am-not-afraidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Written by a cold case detective -- who puts the facts straight:
       
       http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is … orus-myth/

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       cam8510posted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I researched this topic myself some time ago.  I read as many translations of the original myths as I could find, making notes of everything that seemed similar to the Bible.  As I scan your list of similarities, I have to ask what sources you used.  This has the appearance of having been copied from lists of others who also copied lists of others who had a bias to begin with. 
       
       Now, let me also state that I believe there are similarities between the stories of Horus, Osiris and Isis and that of Jesus.  But I never found the outlandish similarities that you have published here.  I don't know if you studied the translations or not, but your list does not resemble what is found in those ancient writings.  If you need help finding them, here is the link.  http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/index.htm
       
       Examples of discrepancies in your list:
       
       Horus's mother's name was not Meri, it was Isis.  In number 13 of your own list you say Isis is his mother's name.  Other sources name Hathor as his mother.
       
       Horus's conception was miraculous, although Isis was not necessarily a virgin.
       
       You do not seem to understand the god, Set.  He is not a parallel to Satan.  This god assisted the dead on their way to heaven.  He was an ally to Ra.  Set and Horus certainly were at odds most of the time, but there is no story paralleling the temptation of Jesus by Satan in the desert.  This claim probably comes from the fact that Set was also referred to as the god of the desert. 
       
       Your list is simply made up of statements that are not upheld by a reading of the myths themselves.  Do your own research.  Don't simply pass on bad information.
       
       I am not a supporter of the contemporary Christian religion, but this list is not accurate and does not prove anything.

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   16. 87

       cam8510posted 9 years agoin reply to this

       #42-"Horus was identified with the Tau (cross)."  You mean tau, the greek letter similar to a T?  I suppose it does resemble a cross  So what?

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          frentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Over the past 500 years many historians and researchers have detected the connection between the stories in the Bible and those of the Ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians and even the Persians.
          Most of those historians were killed and their manuscripts destroyed. Luckily, some still exist and those together with modern day research are finally making that irrefutable and well documented connection.
          To quote from Egyptian doctor/ historian , Ashraf Ezzat :
          "Jews lie. Jews have always lied. And most assuredly, Jews are still lying today about everything that has to do with themselves and their sordid history."
          "Or to put it more concisely in the words of an Egyptian medical doctor named Ashraf Ezzat:
          
          “The truth is that ancient Egypt never knew any Pharaohs nor any Israelites. Egypt was never the land of Exodus and Palestine was never the Promised Land.”
          Backed by every reputable expert in the known world, Ezzat argues that ancient Hebrew history as we know it today is based on one colossal lie — that events described as happening in Egypt, if they happened at all, really happened in Arabia. Which means that according to his version, the tales of Joseph, Moses and the Exodus might still be true, but the location in which they are alleged to have happened are false.
          
          To the average person, this would seem a farfetched assertion were it not for the supportive testimony of the world’s top Egyptologists, from James Henry Breasted to Donald Redford to Israel Finkelstein. Even some Israeli experts agree, including the head of archeology at Tel Aviv University. Prof. Ze’ev Herzog, in a 1999 article in Ha’aretz, said:
          
          “The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel.”
          All the great ancient civilizations lived along river banks like the Egyptians along the river Nile, the Sumerians and Babylonians along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
          The Jews were essentially Nomadic People who traveled from place to place grazing their sheep.  They never had any great civilization of their own. As Ezzat puts it "“A lot of the stories in the Old Testament are in fact plagiarized material, particularly from the rich mythical heritage of the Sumerians – the inventors of writing. The story of Noah and the flood story, the creation of man out of clay, Cain and Abel, the gardens of Eden, the tree of knowledge, creation of Eve from Adams rib, and numerous other myths, like the throwing of Moses after he was born in the river, are all but stories found recorded on Sumerian clay tablets dating 5000 years back in time”
          "The relationship with gods/god has always been one of man’s oldest preoccupations, and still is till this very day. And while it’s fair to assume that Modern day man owes his advancement in philosophy and science to ancient Greece and its earliest thinkers, it’s equally fair, when it comes to the development of religion and the evolution of religious thinking, to give credence to the ancient civilizations of Egypt and Mesopotamia.
          
          In fact, the earliest vestiges of human faith in God, as we know it today, are to be traced back to the valley of the river Nile and between the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. We’re surely to find the root of our belief in a supreme creator inscribed, in hieroglyphs and cuneiform, on the pyramids and papyri of ancient Egypt and on the clay tablets of Sumer … And not within the confines of the Hebrew Bible, as many still believe.
          
          And if we still cherish the Greek school of wisdom and science and continue to build on the teachings of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and Pythagoras, I wonder why we stopped honoring the ancient gods of Egypt and Sumer and Babylon. What has become of the mighty gods of the ancient Near East?  What happened to Anu and Enlil, what has become of the beautiful Goddess “Inanna” Ishtar … The one god, Aten, and what happened to the omnipotent Amun/Amen of Thebes? … Amen, whose name is still echoing in every house of prayers of all organized religions on earth?"
          And many researchers , the latest being Canadian Priest, Tom Harpur have found that 95% of the Jesus story came from the Horus story.
          So if the Egyptians, the Sumerians, Babylonians, etc created and worshiped Pagan Gods and then those Gods were taken , rename and refashioned into the God of the Torah ( Bible ) which then became the foundation of Christianity and later Islam, then we are still are worshiping PAGAN GODS and we must be thankful to those Ancient Civilizations for giving us the Gods we are so proud of today so much so we we kill each other every day in the name of those Pagan Gods.
          The Egyptian Gods became the Jewish god, the Christian god and the Muslim god.
          However it is sanitized and repackaged, it has the same roots.
          You cannot make a SILK PURSE FROM A SOW'S EAR.

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   17. 52

       Ezekiel Watchmanposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
       False - Isis actually had sex with Osiris after he was put back together from being chopped into pieces.

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   18. 52

       Ezekiel Watchmanposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
       False - His mother was Isis his father was Osiris

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   19. 77

       calynbanaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Iris reassembled Osiris after he was cut into pieces and fed to a creature (there are different stories about what that creature was) she even provided him with a golden penis. She then resurrected Osiris and conceived Horus. How can you call her a virgin? We are one point in and there is already a misrepresentation of the myths of Horus. If you want to discuss similarities between Horus and Jesus make sure you are correctly representing both stories.

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          The0NatureBoyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          That is what today's "Christmas Tree" represents as Jeremiah 10, with the word "evergreen" removed from before tree in later than 1960 versions of the Bible, is a referring to.

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   20. 56

       The0NatureBoyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       There was a recent Rabbi who states "the Bible is a collection of parts of different religions." Then, when we realize Moses was only 2 years short of being an Egyptian priest it would be easy to believe their foundation, written by him, came from Egypt. Then realize the millions who came out of Egypt were not all descendants of Jacob, they were a mixture of people from all over the known earth who would have some influence on Moses' writings also. Thus, what that Rabbi said stands very strong under reasoning's scrutiny.

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2. 67

   goldenpathposted 14 years ago

   It was not God, the Eternal Father, who came to Earth but rather His literal Son in the flesh, Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ is Jehovah in the Old Testament.  He gains His authority and power through the Father.  They are two separate beings, yet one in purpose - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
   
   Though I confess I don't know a whole lot about Horus.  However, many great and inspired men came before Jesus Christ and many came after.  Many great and faithful men.  Miracles were manifest by the faith of men through the power of Jehovah before He even came in the flesh to atone for the ills of all the world. 
   
   I don't doubt for a minute that Horus may have been one of these of great faith and favor with God.  There was also Mahonri about 2,000 years prior to Jesus Christ.  He too was faithful unto great works.
   
   However, I still hold that Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten of the flesh and was foreordained, upon His pureness, to atone for mankind and even the Earth itself.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No - Horus was a mythical being upon which your religion is based. No one is suggesting he was an actual person. This is the myth stolen to build your religion. He came to save us from darkness. Every morning.

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         mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank goodness he's around every morning 'cos I do need a lot of help every day! lol Blessed be Mr. Knowles for reminding me (again) that myths rock!
         
         Mithra also shares many of the same attributes, life event highlights, etc., as Jesus and Horus - also Krishna, Dionysus, so does Attis, Osiris...hmmm, might be we have archetypes here?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It astounds me that people will deny this. Sadly - they get their personal power from regurgitating myths.
            
            I thank Horus every morning by sitting and enjoying a cup of coffee in the light that banishes his brother. Sans cigarette these days though.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      But the question remains, where is the incontrovertible proof? A "feeling" is not considered sufficient proof. The writings of the Bible are yet unprovable in regard to many of its scenarios and stories.
      
      I think that's the point here.

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         goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Proooooooooooof smoooooooooooooooof!  You will always get lost in life if you always look for the "apparent" proof.  Wind is not seen - only the effects of it, yet it's there.  Day in and day out many here yell from the mountain "PROOF!"  When any man or woman seeks evidence according to his/her eyes and is unwilling to look deeper and beyond they are more likely to have the proof right in front of them staring them in the face.  I will never change your mind as you will never change mine, but continuing the saga of "PROOF" is fruitless and a waste of typing ability.  When one constantly seeks for what they "want" to see they will have a life full of self loathing and misery or at least a life of walls as a horse leaves the gate with side blinders on preventing him from seeing all else.

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Some things need to be proven. Perhaps not all.
            Faith seemed to be a lie to me. Mostly because I had to buy in to what other people's misguided notions and beliefs were or else be condemned. No room or tolerance for asking tough questions. Faith is based on truth, as you know. Therefore, any evidence that established proof is good and does not threaten truth.
            
            To have faith in something that isn't real is not faith. That's all I'm saying.
            
            As for a personal surety of things not understood, that comes from a deeper, inner source. No one has to justify that to another because it's a personal, singular experience. And while I understand that what you are referring to is *that* kind of experience, that kind of understanding, the scriptures are filled with stories that are mostly just stories because neither you nor I can prove so many of them, and neither can scholars and historians. Hence, if there is no fact in these scriptural accounts, your faith in them is no longer faith.
            
            That's what I'm saying. I'm not arguing about anything. I'm just stating where I'm coming from.

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            mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry but this argument is full of "distraction" into "intimidation" goldenpath...essentially you are arguing, "too bad, I'll believe what I believe and you should too or else your life is going to be bad, full of darkness blah blah blah."
            
            There IS a way to trace things down to myth - as Mr. Knowles and Rishy Rich and others are showing you...your ultimate defense against this seems to be "I don't care - I will not examine those details, preferring instead to believe what I believe because I feel strongly about my beliefs."
            
            That's basically a statement, not a valid argument and is the same kind of inappropriate/out of place argument that many Christians are using all over hubpages and everywhere else.
            
            Your faith will NOT BE interrupted if you examine the historical details about where these archetypes, myths come from and from which culture they derived, you know?

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               mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Of course, you'll have to stop seeing other cultures of the past who weren't aligned with the "One-God" of your description - as inferior, first.

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               goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The basic premise of my original post was simply that always looking for proof of something in the ways you wish to see them will prove fruitless in the end.  You must look for new ways of seeing things.  A fire inspector is not hired on the spot without training.  They are schooled on how to go into a building and find how the blaze started rather than entering and saying "gee, looks like it burned."
               
               It's the same here.  These are matters of the eternal self spirit.  Whether one believes that is shall stand before God in judgment or that is ceases to exist at death, it still requires those inner feelings as you said.  Sometimes matters of the spirit are not readily borne to the eye.  Sometimes they are manifest in other ways so that the Spirit can bear witness of it's truth to the heart and soul.  When this knowledge is known to the heart it matters not all the rumors, myths, professed history seeking, science vs religion or even how many boogers are in one's nose.  When it swells the soul yet humbles at the same time - it is personal truth!  Simple.  Period.  Done.
               
               I've never questioned the beliefs of others.  However, I do question HOW they acquire knowledge.  It's always been my foundation that knowledge is all around us and that it is US that most often fail to see it because we don't understand it or view it as we'd like to see it.  For this reason we must exercise tolerance and understanding in matters of religion.  If we care to continue the folly and not struggle to understand the faith of someone then the poop is on us - not them.  If we want to carry hate day in and day out of other people's faith without being tolerant of them the poop is on us - not them, because they are exercising what works for them according to their chosen faith system. If they choose to find truth through the exercise of faith and good works then that's their way and they shall find it.  Why?  Because truth and knowledge is all around us and can be found in more ways than through a microscope or the latest Science Update.  In matters of the spirit those things should supplement faith, not faith supplementing science.  This is part of how they work in concert together.  Through science our understanding of the world changes regardless of religion.  Yet, if we are open and see things through a different "lens" those scientific snippets can serve to stregnthen faith.

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                  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I appreciate your prose and explanation here but am wondering if you feel that by disagreeing, I am also "intolerant" of other religions.
                  
                  I'm sure that, because I argue in the religion and beliefs threads, I can be misunderstood as being intolerant of Christians.
                  
                  I do question the beliefs of others when these are covertly littered with "I will never listen to you and you are wrong" embedded in discussions - and when obvious distractions and side-lining covertly harbors messages of "you are wrong and my point is right because I refuse to consider anything else."

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                     goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Absolutely not.  The "I'm right your wrong" mentality is distasteful and is a red flag of massive pride overload.  We both agree on that point.  It is good to question and be inquisitive of other's feelings and beliefs.  That's the true path of learning.
                     
                     I salute you for that.

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                        mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I do try, goldenpath...I must say I am learning more and more ABOUT TOLERANCE here...even if others assume I am trashing Christians and Christianity...
                        
                        I'll just tell you (but keep it a secret k?) I learned how to study the way I do - and am still using the methods from (and still trying to improve) - a Christian scholar and educator I respect dearly...but who has never prompted me to become "Christian," but to examine all mythology - (which I do, obviously)...to never abandon study of Scriptures - not because I need to be converted but because all mythologies are intertwined and contain truths.
                        
                        I do, however, have an intolerance I'm not well able to control, on the issue of "oppression." lol

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                           goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Religious beliefs aside we both have more in common than I thought.  It's good to see!

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                              dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              where did the word God originate from?  Google it-- or what ever search engine you use.  Or  what ever source you use.
                              
                              As for the letter  "  J  "   when did that alphabet come into existence?
                              
                              As for the word  " Jesus"    I  didn't think the man was Latin ?
                              
                              May we really ought to research where it all began?  Because I didn't think it begin in ENGLAND-  and I  really don't trust the queen- do you?
                              
                              Did you know there was some german placed in the KJV Bible?  I really have trouble  trusting  them either since the holocaust.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            One of the most important things in your life and you don't even want to know if it's right or wrong. That's the bottom line; denial. 
            
            
            
            Gods are not seen and there are no effects of them, hence they are not there.
            
            
            
            Clearly, you aren't admitting to looking for truth, you are only looking to believe what you WANT to believe and nothing more. Facts won't change your mind, that says oodles about you and your faith.

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               mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I think the statement "I will never change your mind and you will never change mine" from goldenpath is a bit problematic.
               
               Goldenpath, you have informed me of a number of important things or I have read your "stuff" in the threads and have a number of different conclusions about a number of Christian issues. I've looked up Scriptures you've referenced and all sorts of things...so it would be possible very much so for you to change my mind on a number of things...and you have changed my mind on some issues...

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                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Hugely problematic. Goldenpath has decreed he will never change his mind. He has gone well beyond the concept of faith and instead is obsessed with his beliefs to the point of claiming that black is white, up is down, and so on...
                  
                  Hence, he is not a human being.

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                     goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     My statement was a call of neutrality.  It was a proclamation that I am not here to "convert" anyone.  My time here is to answer forum topics according to my own beliefs as any of you.  Please don't separate me into a secluded category because of the wide difference in beliefs that I have compared to all other Christian faiths. 
                     
                     On a lighter note, the misperceptions people have over my simple statements is really starting to give me gas.
                     

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                        Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        It looked a lot more like a statement of absolutism in that you are not interested in learning or knowing anything at all outside your belief system. Of course, you know that's not true as you probably do learn things all the time.
                        
                        So, we can probably conclude it is therefore selective knowledge that cannot and will not contradict your belief system you might accept.
                        
                        But then, there are things that you do know for a fact that do contradict your belief system, yet you cannot and will not ever admit to them.
                        
                        

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            The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Or maybe I'll just be far less likely than you to invest significant money, action, or emotion in a lie.
            
            
            
            I love the thing about wind, because believers like to trumpet about how one can't see the wind and think they've scored some sort of victory.  But if you were looking up through the branches of trees and saw them unmoving, and couldn't feel the familiar, physical, and unmistakable presence of wind against your body and someone told you it was windy you would immediately disagree, because you had no evidence of the wind. 
            
            If they told you they needed no evidence, they could just feel the wind in their heart, you'd suspect they were either lying to you or in a compromised mental state.
            
            Because when you take the sort of claims people make about gods and apply them to anything else the madness of it quickly become obvious.

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               earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Now ain't that the truth! Maybe we can't see the wind, but we can measure it, see the results of it and use it for power, put dust  in it and you can see it as well! Laughable analogy!

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      Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."  Jesus is YHWH in the flesh, yet YHWH was also not limited to the flesh, for God is Spirit (1 John 4:2).  For every gift of God there is a counterfeit of Satan.  One force loves God and aligns everything with His Word; the other mimics God and does not align everything with His Word.  For an example of this, note the two "miracle workers" who worked on Pharaoh's behalf.  They could do the same things as Moses and Aaron (Exodus 7).  The revelation of the truth as to which god/God gives the gifts is found in the heart of the person who operates in them.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank goodness.

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      The0NatureBoyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      to my research, it appears the name Jesus is the union of two french words, "Je" and "Suis" meaning respectively "I am" produced by the Nicene Council of the CE year 325 in Nicaea since the historical mentioning of that person is 3 at most and they arranged for them. In Hebrew his name would have been Joshua written in English, which means "I am that I am is the saving knowledge".
      
      Now go to the flood (Genesis 6:1-6) where the Genesis 1 man were all called "sons of god" while the descendants of Adam and Eve are called "daughters of men", doesn't that suggest anyone who does not buy into the concept of "good and evil" will have the "saving knowledge"? Wouldn't that suggest the "New Born" (John 3:1-8) would overcome the belief in good and evil and become "sons of gods" as he said in John 10:34-36? Maybe it is because believers in "good and evil" are woman [cut from man; minds unable to comprehend all things] and can't realize all man [minds able to comprehend all things] are sons of god.
      
      Once we overcome "good and evil" concepts we will understand what is written in Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" and 7:14-16 "16: For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings" is saying god and devil/satan doesn't exist and if people still need god and satan "man" is the term to be used to represent god.
      
      Just my understanding of the matter.

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   Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

   I also had a 'coming of age' ritual.. her name was Samantha...
   
   you may all refer to me henceforth as ISIS

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nope, sorry. You're still Homer. You're Greek, not Egyptian, remember?
      

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         Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The parallels between Homer and Isis are stunning...
         
         you can believe or not believe...
         
         no compulsion

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You are incorrigible, which is one of the reasons why you are so charming.
            Always good for a laugh.
            

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               Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you... may your harvest this year be bountiful
               
               

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                  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Why, now that you point it out, I'm beginning to see Greek influence!
                     

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                  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  My, the deity has put on a little weight this year, eh?

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   dfagerposted 14 years ago

   That's pretty cool!  Myths teach us a lot about ourselves.  They're like paintings.  Paintings often reflect reality or try to make sense of it.  But the difference between Horus and Jesus is one came to earth and dwelt with us.  Maybe the myth is like a prophesy.

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   Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

   I don't want to get into a detailed examination of each supposed 'parallel' or to point out the obvious aspects that separate the two individuals in question...
    
   I would like to mention however, that you can make similar comparisons between the stories of Hercules and that of Jesus (and probably with a number of other figures, both real and mythological).  Indeed, there is one particular Hubber who spends most of his time trying to draw comparisons between the story of Jesus with that of other religious figures (there is no compulsion for you to try to figure out who this person is) 
   
   The notion that one would have to steal from Egyptian mythology to create the identity of Jesus doesn't make sense to me.
   If we are to believe that early Christians  'stole' from such myths, then we must also assume that these myths were, to some extent, known at the time.  Why then would someone who is seeking to promote or validate a new religion leave themselves open to such criticisms?  Why too would one seek to associate a new movement with that of a pagan religion?
   
   Are we saying that these early Christians were not only thieves, not only incompressibly ignorant of the potential criticisms such thievery would illicit, but also incapable of creating their own unique myths?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. I take it you are not familiar with how religion works?

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         Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Faith aside, I don't see that as a logical arguement.. especially if I was to put myself in the position of one of those early believers

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ah - so you are familiar with living in a time when there was no mass communication and the local priest/juju man/shaman was the repository of all your non-practical knowledge?
            
            Like some people treat Fox news nowadays.......
            
            "God has revealed to me that we got it slightly wrong and we were mistaken in worshiping Horus, the real name is Jesus. You don't believe me? Here - talk to the enforcers....."
            
            How many generations do you think it took to change it?
            
            I see some German historians claiming that there was no holocaust.
            
            This is how religion/politics works.
            
            9/11 anyone?

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               Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The question is not whether myths or stories can evolve over time... on that we agree.   I just don't think you are putting yourself in the mindset of those of the time period.
               
               Keep in mind too that the 'enforcers' of the time where not compelling people to worship Jesus.. there were compelling just the opposite.   I for one wouldn’t want to put myself at risk of persecution for worshipping a 'slightly' different god. There isn't something 'slightly' different between Jesus and Horus, despite the 'parallels' raised here...

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I think you are missing the point. The fact is - the Jesus story was taken from else where. It was not sold to the Egyptians. It was sold to the downtrodden masses.
                  
                  I just don't think you are putting yourself in the mind set of people with no access to knowledge other than that supplied to them. And let's be honest - the Jesus story is tailor made for the oppressed and down trodden. The whole martyr complex? Wonderful! No matter how bad it gets - you will be rewarded in heaven.......
                  
                  What is your point exactly? That you believe in God and need to defend that? Despite the obvious proofs that there is no such thing? But - it sure does make you feel better to think you will live forever because Horus came to banish the darkness and save you from the sin you were born into? I mean.... Jesus was the sun god.
                  
                  

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                     Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     "I just don't think you are putting yourself in the mind set of people with no access to knowledge other than that supplied to them. And let's be honest - the Jesus story is tailor made for the oppressed and down trodden. The whole martyr complex? Wonderful! No matter how bad it gets - you will be rewarded in heaven......."
                     
                     Did you life the above from Karl Marx?? Lol.. take about stealing ideas!
                     
                     
                     I think your characterization of early Christians as being "with no access to knowledge other than that supplied to them" is inaccurate.  I also think you might have misunderstood my motivation with those of some other Hubbers.  I don't have a need to defend God to anyone... If God exists, as I believe he does, he doesn't need my help. 
                     
                     As for living forever.. that desire is not the basis of my beliefs.. nor is it a certainty judging by my excess use of pornography and my willingness to spam in order to increase my Adsence revenue since you have steadfastly refused to mentor me!!

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I think if God exists - as I do not believe he does - he is the ultimate spammer - so you are in good company.

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                           Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           yeah but you've made more in Adsense revenue than him

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            Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Greek One:  You clearly only worship Zeus and for some unknown reason, seem to pay more attention to the planet Uranus as opposed to Earth.  I find your logic to be most self-centered, no?  Or was that anal, oops, I mean overly analytical?

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               Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               oh if I had but just ONE bolt of lightning to dish out now!!

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                  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Electric truth hurts, ya know, so you deem to strike back...  Ha-ha!

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                     Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I am a vengeful God.. beware

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                        Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Now you're talking like the Gods in those, uh, uh, holy textbooks & stuff.  Yikes!  Greek One is a Christian after all and he may possibly be from Greenland while recovering from coveting his last neighbor's igloo!  Shame on you!  You should have stuck with your belief in adultery while you still had a frozen chance...

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                           Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I might be a Christian... but that doesn't mean I am a good one.. so beware!

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                              Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              That's okay, you're still a witty, funny one when your head is not up...  Oh, never mind.  ...Girth is all that matters. 

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                                 Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 you are finally understanding!

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                           mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Wow, what does the god of igloos do to those who commit adultery?

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                              Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              He freezes their cubes

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                                 mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well then, I believe we'll have to ask Horus to bring the sun out and liberate those oppressed by the frozen cube igloo god then?
                                 
                                 Does this bring things back onto the topic of Horus in any way?
                                 
                                 Prob'ly not, but it was an attempt.

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                                    Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I'll tell you who is going to be oppressed.... yours truely...
                                    
                                    if I don't get home in time for dinner, my wife will cut off my frozen cubes and no god will be able to save me.
                                    
                                    nite all

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                                       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Omigosh - Horus be with you my friend - don't be late for dinner with your godess.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I understand what you're saying here, Greek One, but correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that most of your questions are of an ethical nature?
      
      What about all the power struggle stuff that happened in the world as cultures were developing. There are historical proofs that Egyptians did, indeed EXPECT people to forget other mythological or even real people, change their allegiance to whichever deities were in power at a given time - buy into the current state of mythology that the king/pharoah presented.
      
      ...in Greece, also.
      
      These cultures would destroy the temples of another culture or power family as soon as power changed hands. In their worldview, they probably were NOT people whose minds were filled with the ethical points of all of their actions...
      
      So - could these be examples of why it doesn't matter if we ask ethical questions on these matters, thinking only from our own, modern worldview?
      
      I don't think that people who merged myths and "stole from" other cultural stories were thinking in the same terms as we might be today. They wouldn't consider that they were leaving themselves open to criticisms in any way when living the way they lived and performing the common political actions of the times (destroying traces of the previous ruler's existence if it was a political 'take-over' or a 'nation won through battle' or adding mythologies onto the lineage-stories of previous rulers (son of so and so and so forth, building the legend into dramatics for praise or even for the purpose of creating fear).
      
      It's my guess that those ancients we call the first Christian group were a mix from the cultures in the same area during the same times - and that they would have many similar practices as other cultures, including some Egyptian-influenced, Greek-influenced (other-influenced) activities and beliefs, so I feel confident saying that YES, Christians (that ancient cultural group) did steal stories, most definitely so.
      
      I don't see this "myth stealing" of the ancients in the same way you do. I don't see it as an "offense" like you seem to.

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         Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I understand where you are coming from, and no doubt that ideas and beliefs were shared and adopted in all aspects of life.. but for me, this particular question is not just about ethics... It's about the motivation of a young persecuted religious community(ies).
         
         I would even go as far to agree that some early Christians tried to draw comparisons to other more established religions in order to ease the attacks against them, and to show that they their beliefs weren't all that radical.
         
         It is a different story however, to say that the underlying beliefs and pillars of their beliefs.. beliefs that they were willing to die for... were merely adoptions or a composite of older myths and religions.
         
         (Incidentally,, the Greeks never stole... they just asked for loans at a favorable rate. Just like they do today)

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            mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Many of them are a composite tho', Greek One. The underlying pillars of belief...which doesn't necessarily nullyfy the fact that there are underlying beliefs...I just think it's important to know the differences and explanations behind beliefs or to state "I believe this without knowing why" rather than for some people to say things like "I believe this because God says so."
            
            The history of religious literature will SHOW YOU that there are merged texts, composites, "borrowed" (I like to think the Greeks "borrowed" although most people say "Stole" - heck everyone just borrowed a lot of stuff)...for instance, Augustine "borrowed" a whole mind-set and worldview about Theories of Form from Plato and advanced the Augustine "Two Cities" theories...as a spiritual piece and standard.

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               Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               so what you are really trying to say is that God is Greek?
               
               I gotchya!
               
               

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                  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Since I do love mythology, particularly Greek stuff - I do like this statement!

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      Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You haven't heard about Mormons?  http://www.whatismormonism.com/

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         Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         only Donny and Marie

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            Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You are indeed in for a surprise then!

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think it became a popular story in greek culture which after so many decades just became accepted as truth, more or less. The Greeks were great at that, and the Romans rather assisted them, as always.
      
      These guys were experts at making up gods, or recycling old ones.

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         mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Do you have a fave recycled old god?
         
         One of my faves is Dionysus...errr in case this matters lol

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            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            One of my fave recycled gods as well! The jesus you are having when you don't have a jesus, or the poor man's god.

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               mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah 'cept Dionysus got to drink a lot of wine...but Jesus became wine?
               
               Sorry - it's gettin' late - guess I should get out of the rel/beliefs thread now 'til I'm ready to be more serious lol

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                  Clifton Bartonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus had his share of wine also. Maybe that's when he started thinking he was Gaawwwwwddd. You've heard the verse speaking against the people who didn't show the Christians hospitality. Kick the dust off your sandals on their doorstep. The reason ole cheez-its and the gang were unpopular is because cheese-its was known as a wine biber. And I doubt the ancients had a problem with good ole unfermented grape juice.

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      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      and more...they endured cruel persecutions.
      
      Are you saying hardened fishermen willfully believed a lie, even to the point of death?
      
      John on Patmos, old and lonely, kept faith with his friend Jesus who came to him in vision.
      
      Christians are overcomers in the book of Revelation.  Not liars.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Case in point. You speak as though you were there at an event that did not happen. Christians have a strong history of lying for Jesus. Yes - we know that you think you are special - "over comers" or "needlessly persecuted" etc etc etc ad infinitum in the hope of Kausing the Final Konflikt........
         
         http://www.liarsforjesus.com/
         
         Hi GC - - see you still pushing your fairy tale. Is there any argument you will not stoop to?

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            glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well hello again.
            
            Had some internet access issues for about 2 months.  (Was good for the soul, and business too).  Even found time to take up Tai Kwan Do.
            
            Just admit for a moment that you don't know all things.  What if the prophecy of John in Revelation is true? 
            
            Then Mark you must make one important decision:  The question of Pilate in Matthew 27:22:
            
            "What shall I do then with Jesus who is called Christ?"

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               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I don't know all things.
               
               What if? No - not buying it.
               
               Sorry. I understand that is enough for you. Totally ignore the facts that are presented here and go "what if"?
               
               The question you should ask is "why is that enough for me?" and "why am I prepared to ignore actual facts and information presented to me?" or "why am I fighting over this yet again?"
               
               I know where the story of jesus came from. I don't know everything - but your bastardized god story is utter nonsense.
               
               Now admit that you do not know  everything and tell me why "what if" is enough for you to base your entire life on and fight with me about?
               
               When you have evidence here in front of you that your fairy tale is just that.

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                  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I have gone way beyond 'what if'.
                  
                  The what if is for you the rationalist.  Once you admit that you don't know all things then you have arrived at first base.
                  
                  From there on it's a spiritual journey of faith and reason.
                  
                  There are numerous pre-Christian parallels.
                  
                  Heard of Nimrod?
                  
                  Does not nullify the story of Jesus the Messiah.
                  
                  The OT prophecies have to be studied to arrive at identity of Messiah.  The Horus myth is worth critical analysis as well.

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                     earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     There is another 40 or so gods to explain away as well as horus and when do you get to "Looks like an archetype, smells like an archetype, walks like an archetype. Gee I wonder if it's an archetype?"

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                        glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Widen your base man, Hinduism has over 300 million gods.
                        We are not here to explain them all away, that's your job. 
                        
                        I am here to tell the story of Jesus.  His birth, His life, His atoning death, His gift of the Holy Spirit, His ethical teachings, His teachings on the kingdom, His promise of coming back to this earth again.
                        
                        If the Horus archetype is so certain then why is it that learned Egyptologists maintain their faith in Islam and Christianity?  I'm not just talking about tomb guides, but learned Ph.D's.

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                     Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Done, it has morphed into the Jesus myth.

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                        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Morphed is the right word here even though it's not in the dictionary.

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                           Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           You caught that... well done.

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                              earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              You know it is almost placid on these forums without Brenda.
                              I almost had a discussion with a religionist here once!
                              I mean to say spouting commands and thou shalt nots from the "good book" does get a bit passe I enjoy reading your comments. Lots of smarts.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks, you too Earnest!  Cheers, mate. 

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                     Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I love the version of Nimrod vs. Abraham in a great battle where Abraham sends an army of gnats which destroys Nimrods army and gets inside his brain to drive him insane.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     So - you cannot answer my questions then? Of course you have one way beyond what if. You have gone with "I am so scared, I better believe it like it sez and I will ignore the fact that prove the Jesus myth was taken from elsewhere as though my life depended on it" Sad really.
                     
                     Faith? Yes
                     Reason?  Don't make me laugh.
                     
                     So - can you admit you do not know everything?
                     
                     And can you say "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?"

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                        glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Hey!  I don't know everything, but I know enough to believe that Jesus Christ is the Loving Saviour, and King of kings and Lord of lords.
                        
                        Now you answer me.  What if in the area of your ignorance there is Deity?  And Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God?

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           LOL
                           
                           I don't know - what if this utter garbage is correct? Well - I will have to suffer the consequences of having thought for myself and come to a reasonable conclusion about the way the universe works. But - I am satisfied that you do not know what you are talking about and fear and guilt have no place in it.
                           
                           I see you don't know everything - but you do know everything and refused to answer my what if.
                           
                           "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?"
                           
                           Not really interested in your retroactive prophecy nonsense - in fact - it makes me pity you - that you need to go to these lengths in an effort to convince - yourself? That you have some personal authority by preaching this nonsense. You are certainly not convincing me.
                           
                           "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?"

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                              glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              There is no jesus myth unless you are talking about syncretism promulgated in the Dark Ages by Roman Church.
                              
                              I refer only to the Jesus Christ of the Everlasting Gospel.
                              
                              BTW  just a little digging around the internet will reveal that the list of parallels by the OP is inaccurate.
                              
                              Horus did not die; was not born of a virgin; Isis, not Horus,  raised Osiris; etc.  Go check sources like Shabaka Stone.

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                                 Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Please answer the question instead of telling me how right you are.
                                 
                                 "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?

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                                    glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    A myth is just a myth.  First you have the person, then you have the myth.  I worship the Person, not the Mithra myth of Constantine.
                                    
                                    As the vanguard of Protestantism we who worship the Christ of Revelation have no belief in the 25 December Jesus myth.
                                    
                                    What if this too turns out to be a hoax.  Another deeper myth.
                                    Then the con is very deep, even divine.
                                    
                                    All the theological and philosophical principles of thought would suggest that the Jesus of Nazareth story is not fiction.
                                    
                                    Your Horus list has been debunked.  Just google it.
                                    
                                    And if you understood the unique story of Jesus you would know He is vastly different from all other messianic figures.

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                                       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       And which propaganda link should one first follow after using search terms on google?

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                                          glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          You are smart enough to realise that all advertising and persuasion is by definition propoganda.
                                          
                                          And smart enough to do your own research on the Horus myth. 
                                          
                                          Paradoxically, the new agers and pagans are very helpful because they are SCANDALIZED by the errors in the list since the errors fly in the face of their own intimate knowledge of the pagan myths.

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                                       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Please answer the question instead of pushing your ridiculous beliefs. You worship the person? That alone tells me you are the one did not understand the story.
                                       
                                       "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?

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                                          glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Someone took the time to debunk not just the Horus myth connection but a long list of alleged copycat parallels such as Dionysus as well.
                                          
                                          http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
                                          
                                          And he is offering to pay up to $1000 to anyone who can show  evidence supporting the validity of any of the "comparison" lists.
                                          
                                          He has done the research. Challenge him and invite us to observe.  Better yet why not invite him to debate you in a hubpages thread on the Christ-myth claims.

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                                             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             $1000?
                                             
                                             Sun day is enough for me.   Still - once you understand that there are as many versions of the horus story as there  kristian kults you might understand.
                                             
                                             Now - please answer the question instead of defending your ridiculous, stolen, borrowed, copied, un-original, guilt-laden political religion.
                                             
                                             Easter = Eostre..................
                                             
                                             "What if the jesus myth is just a myth?

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                                                glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Mark you sink very low when you edit another member's contribution to the forum.
                                                
                                                I have already answered your question by stating that the Jesus story is not a myth.  But if it were proven to be then it is a deep con.  Even divine.
                                                
                                                Since you are a bawling spoilt child I will comfort you by saying then we would all have benefited from the teachings of a wise philosopher.
                                                
                                                The issue here is not whether or not the story of Jesus is a myth.  The issue is the validity of the list posted in this thread.
                                                
                                                Check the links and get on with the real debate.  I see you are afraid of someone who has done the research.
                                                
                                                Warning:  He has blown away others like you.
                                                
                                                And that Easter thingy.  I do not celebrate Easter, not a pure Christian festival.  I celebrate Lord's Supper.

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                                                   Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Please answer the question. You were very, very aggressive in asking me to answer YOUR question. You are being very rude by refusing to answer and merely defending your myth.
                                                   
                                                   What if the Jesus myth is just a myth?
                                                   
                                                   I do not trust your expertise in ancient Egyptian myths. Nor do I trust the website you are promoting. I understand there are many like you who feel they know everything and willing to goto any lengths to show that they are right. Liars for Jesus......
                                                   
                                                   Answer the question......

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                                                      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      READ MY ANSWER:  I have already answered your question by stating that the Jesus story is not a myth.  But if it were proven to be then it is a deep con.  Even divine.
                                                      
                                                      We would all have benefited from the teachings of Jesus a wise Jewish rabbi and philosopher.
                                                      
                                                      THINK:  The many copycat theories are successfully debunked on the internet.  I am not an Egyptologist but I read and think.
                                                      
                                                      DECIDE:  This thread is not about what if Jesus myth is just a myth, this thread is about did Christians borrow Jesus myth from pagans.
                                                      
                                                      ACTION:  Do the research.
                                                      
                                                      CAVEAT:  Naturally, I will reference Christian apologetics sites.  My bias is that of someone with a Christian worldview.

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                                                         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                         I have already done the research. There are more than enough similarities and teh story of the risen god is old, old , old....
                                                         
                                                         Now - using semantics - I see as usual - of course - you guys cannot be honest. You have the answer.
                                                         
                                                         What if the myth of jesus is just a myth - as it applies to you.
                                                         
                                                         LOL at the philosopher joke - you have no idea what he said and obviously missed the last 2000 years of wars over just that.... LOLOL

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                                                            glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                            No you most certainly haven't done the research.
                                                            
                                                            Take some time away from forum and look at the Christ-myth debate. 
                                                            
                                                            Furthermore, there are theological reasons the pagan expectations of God would be fulfilled when the real God turned up.  Our hearts yearn for God.
                                                            
                                                            Now it's my turn to insist in bold
                                                            
                                                            Do the research.

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                                                               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                               Now I am a liar? I see....
                                                               
                                                               Thanks for validating my opinion of christians.
                                                               
                                                               There is no christ-myth debate. The story is a myth. End of discussion.
                                                               
                                                               Answer the question.

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                                                                  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  I never knew I would see the day when a respected and senior forum member run away from a simple honest suggestion to go check the facts.
                                                                  
                                                                  So far you have not demonstrated evidence that you have checked the facts.  And dont encourage ernest to come with Jungian archetypes in the collective unconscious now.
                                                                  
                                                                  Go check the sources. 
                                                                  
                                                                  Or do like me, take a shortcut by checking the apologetics.

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                                                                     mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     oh no doubt... not that earnest fellow lol (I'm sure he'll surf over here in due time)
                                                                     
                                                                     Hey earnest, I noticed you fertilized my garden in farmville earlier today - thank you - but could you get Horus to come back out now? Set is killing my cherry trees by oppressing the Sungod too much! Since you're over in Aussieland, you'll see Horus long before I do over in Canuckland.
                                                                     
                                                                     

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                                                                     earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     I'm astounded you were able to get that much about Jung from wikepedia!

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                                                                        glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                        Wikipedia???
                                                                        
                                                                        I thought Jung was my martial arts teacher.

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                                                                           earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           I rest my case! You spell wikepedia better than I do!

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                                                   Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Yes, that IS the issue as it negates the very thing you've spent your life following, hence it would certainly be a huge blow to anyone's ego who admits it.

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                                                      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Actually the debate had moved on to the successful debunking of that thesis.

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                        glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I have seen a religion evolve in my lifetime, from the unfounded belief that Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie (Ras Tafari or Prince Tafari) was a Messiah.  His followers, the Rastafarians saw him as a god.
                        
                        On the one hand, Selassie himself said he was a Christian.  Despite this, popular Jamaican music glorifies the dead emperor and many musicians are Rastafarians. So I have seen the development of a modern myth.
                        
                        On the other hand, Jesus of Nazareth was born in fulfillment of specific prophecies, His life, death, and resurrection were right on schedule.  And he claimed to be Messiah, and Lord.

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      invoke evolveposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Different religions take from each other all the time, primarily through scripture, symbology, and ritual practices. The newer religions will use the ideas of current (and widely practiced) religions to convert followers from the older religion. For example, scholars believe the birth of Jesus fell around March rather than December. However, pagan festivals, like Yule, were celebrated on the winter solstice. In order to create an easy transition for pagans to early Christians, Christmas was set to be celebrated in December. The Christmas tree tradition was another pagan custom adopted.
      
      Honestly, rather than becoming hostile by these statements, it's better to research this yourself. Books have been written on this topic by many people, including priests with doctorates in divinity, individuals with PhDs in theology, Egyptologists, etc. You are better suited to serve your faith in God by using the brain he gave you. The search for truth is honorable. Being blindly subservient without truth is shortsighted and maladaptive. So what if the stories are similar, it should redact from your faith.
      
      Everyone here becoming so blatantly upset by this shouldn't be mad about these entries. Rather, you all should be happy. The stories of Egyptian mythology allowed their religion to last some 4000 years, and this carried Christianity through two millennia, seeing many other religions began and die. Research this for yourself, and by this I mean for YOURSELF, using actual scholarly and historical texts. Compare them. Be open-minded. Biasness is only ignorance. In order for Christianity to extend another two thousand years it must evolve.

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         invoke evolveposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         So what if the stories are similar? It shouldn't redact from your faith. *

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      wizardburgerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      In answer to "GREEK ONE'S" statement of why would one steal from another myth to create a new one, here is the obvious answer to that.
      
      Jesus was a Jew...not just any Jew...but a Jew who was supposed to be the Messiah.  According to the Jewish legend the Messiah had to fulfill certain acts in order to be the true Messiah and not a false one.  Many false ones had come and gone...and the Jews are still waiting for the true Messiah to come.  The true  Messiah would free his people from oppression ( in Jesus's time the Romans ), rebuild the Temple of Solomon, become King of the Jews... among other acts. ( Being the son of God was not a requirement...but adding that in helped in creating the image of him being something more.)
      Jesus accomplished none of these.  In order for his followers to justify his being the true Messiah they changed the legend to, "He will return and do all of that".
      
      In order to add to the few in number that the Christians were at that time it was common place to adopt rituals of other religions to draw those religions into Christianity.  Many were adopted from the various Pagan religions of the time...such as the reason we have Christmas trees in our homes, celebrate his birthday on Dec 25th, ignore the first 2 commandments and pray to the virgin Mary, etc...This allowed for those Pagan believers to worship a female deity, keep their Dec 25th rituals and their nature worshipping...amongst others
      
      In order to justify Jesus being more than a great orator/prophet who spoke of how corrupt the Jewish religion had become in his day, they heaped upon him common legends and myths and adopted accepted beliefs of other religions for the sole purpose of increasing their numbers/members/believers as a matter of survival of themselves and their new religion.  It was not originally meant for a new religion to be created...Jesus's intent was to "correct" and improve the Jewish belief/religion...HIS religion.  When it was obvious most of his own Jewish people were not going to accept him as the Messiah, adopt his added beliefs and change some ancient practices...and condemned him resulting in his crucifixion...then it became a different religion.  One that could easily have faded away if new converts could not be had.
      
      You can see the parallels of many (much older) myths and religions from the known area surrounding where they lived and traveled.  Hercules was mentioned earlier and is also accurate...and why religions of nearby civilizations were so parallel to each other such as the Greek and Roman gods.  Known Greek, Roman and Jewish beliefs along with Egyptian and several Pagan religions and beliefs were picked from to create the Jesus legend in order to explain his being "The One" in spite of the fact he had not done anything to fulfill any of the Messiah requirements...not even one of them.
      
      With all of the strong beliefs that Christians have and the faith they give those beliefs, it should be pretty easy for them to understand why people with equally as strong faith/beliefs in their religion and God(s) at the time needed "reasons" to adopt Christianity.  Having some of their beliefs melded into this new religion eased their transition to it.
      
      The three major religions of the world have been built by using/adopting (or shall I say "stealing") many of the oldest stories and myths starting with Abraham and the belief in a monolithic God.  The Old Testament is a major part of the Christian Bible, is also the Torah (or 5 books of Moses) in the Jewish scriptures and is prevalent in the Koran (as is Jesus).  The stories in the Old Testament, such as the great flood, is prevalent in many religions aside from the big 3...as are others such as mans existence starting with an "Adam and Eve" of some kind.
      
      It is almost impossible to not see the commonalities, similar stories, legends and myths in ALL religions throughout the world and history. 
      
      It is not an anomaly that beliefs have been adopted/stolen from one belief and added to another...it is in fact, the norm.

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   evanlaeysposted 14 years ago

   The similarities between Horus and Jesus are amazing, but I would like to know the source for this information? I do believe that God has sent messengers of Love to more than one time and place in the world, considering how important the message is!
   
   The "evil men," responsible for the violence and wars in this world, have forgotten the Truth: that all of Creation is One with the Creator, Agape. Forgetting that and believing that evil could have been part of God's plan constitutes humankind's original sin.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The sources for my information, evanlaeys, is in studying Scriptures and also the documents what were not placed into the Christian canon, works of Christian scholars both ancient and modern, learning the history of both the content of and the making/printing of the Bible, the changes in versions, etc. (it's all related to what I really like studying - mythology and urban legends - a long, involved educational sidetracking into religion and philosophy was necessary)
      
      The works of Aurelius, many ancient Greeks (works attributed to Homer), examining the works of ancient playwrights and poets(checking on which mythological figures they referenced, which other ancient authors, too)...tracking down ancient sources of mythology, speeches of Cicero, visiting temples to ask elders and priests for their suggestions on literature sources, etc. Works of St. Boniface, Augustine, blah blah blah... 5+ years of constant reading, questioning to get to the point that I understand what a myth is and the difference between a myth and urban legend or a piece of folklore and an urban legend lol

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         evanlaeysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Wow! Are you writing a book?

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            mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Nope, not that I'm aware of lol just writing hubs and reading a lot more books!
            
            I'm not sure I could focus long enough to write a whole book.

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   sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago

   Okay...when I watched Zeitgeist I wondered about this.
   In the Egyptian myths we were taught about in school (and I read when I was a kid), Horus was the son of Isis (not Meri) and he was conceived after Set killed Osiris and cut up his body, scattering it all over the place.
   Then Isis found all of the parts but his penis, so she made a penis out of gold and somehow resurrected Osiris and then conceived Horus.
   To me that sounds nothing like the Christian story.
   Now, is this Horus story that you are relating (and the one in Zeitgeist) a recent discovery?
   Okay, it was ages ago when I was in school, so it wouldn't have to be that recent...LOL
   Because I'm like to read this new version.
   Wikipedia (I know, not the greatest source in the world) has the old story I learned as the Horus myth.
   So could you tell me where the parallel things come from?

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      Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      yep, it all started by Gerald Massey, author of  "The Natural Genesis"

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   Great link Mark. Never seen that before.

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   Rishy Richposted 14 years ago

   Hey guys, its nice to see that most of you really liked this post. Sorry for this late response though
   
   Just like Sabreblade & evanlaeys, I guess many of you want to know the source of these information. This concept was first presented by Gerald Massey (29 May 1828 - 29 October 1907). These are primarily contained in his book The Natural Genesis.
   
   Massey's writings influenced Alvin Boyd Kuhn, and later the ordained Anglican priest and lecturer Tom Harpur, who presented his own case in his book "The Pagan Christ" , in which he argued that all of the essential ideas of both Judaism and Christianity came primarily from Egyptian religion. However, Massy's work, which draws comparisons between the Judeo-Christian religion and the Egyptian religion, is not considered significant in the field of modern Egyptology.
   
   
   Later, many prominent Egyptologists like E. A. Wallis Budge, Professor George Albert Wells, author Acharya S, and political comedian Bill Maher tried to promote the concept but it hardly got support from media!  Few years back, a documentary film called 'Zeitgeist' again promoted the concept but again failed to get enough public attention!
   
   Its true that some of the parallels presented above are debatable but not completely groundless.
   
   Oh, ONE MORE THING, CAN YOU TELL ME WHY DO CHRISTIANS GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY??...WHY SUNDAY??
   ...BECAUSE ITS SUN(DAY), THE DAY OF THE HORUS(THE SUN GOD). Another Coincidence, eh?...

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      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So we who insist on pure worship of Creator go to church on Saturday the 7th day Sabbath of Creation because we know of the sun worship origin of pagan entry into Christianity.
      
      Jesus kept the Sabbath.  The 7th day Sabbath of Creation.
      
      Happy you concede that some of parallels are subject to further inquiry.  But there are numerous parallels. 
      
      And not just from Egypt.
      
      Does not negate the power of the gospel of Christ.

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         Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         & Does not negate these parallels as well !!
         
         & Still the SUNDAY church sounds more like SUN -day , the day of Horus -The SUN god to me

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      sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you!
      I have always been interested in parallel beliefs.
      I even got grounded once for saying "If Jesus is the son of God and Apollo is the sun god...could they be the same being?" when I was like 12 or thereabouts.
      That didn't go over too well in my Southern Baptist household to say the least.
      I have my own beliefs, but I find others beliefs and how they sometimes intersect my own fascinating.
      But thanks for the info, I'll do some researching.

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         Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Glad to help. In fact I was also looking for this info for long time. Had to do a little re-search to find it

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      Allan Bogleposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Gerald Massey is routinely dismissed among historians as a hack. Unfortunateyl,you did not inlcude the rest of the article from wikipedia: "However, W. Ward Gasque conducted a world-wide pole of twenty leading Egyptologists - including Professor Kenneth A. Kitchen of the University of Liverpool and Ron Leprohan, Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto- in Canada, USA, UK, Australia, Germany, and Austria to verify if there was any academic support for these claims. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing the claimed parallels."
      
      And Acharya S? Are you serious? The woman who believes that elves populate the earth, that pre-historic man had nuclear weapons, etc.
      
      Oh and your other source, E.A. Budg; the British Museum of History and Culture has stated, in a warning to visitors that "Budge's works are now outdated and should be avoided."
      
      There is a reason that scholars (or the media) do not take these views seriously...

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10. 79

    sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago

    Something I always found funny was something I mentioned in one of my Hubs I think.
    My grandmother on my fathers side was a very religious mountain woman.
    She and my Grandfather attended every church service they had (twice Sunday, Wednesday any thing the church did they were there).
    BUT, she was known in the community for being able to "talk" warts off.
    She'd take a person that had a wart, say something in a whisper and from what I was told (by my Dad, Uncles, other people on nearby farms), the wart went away.
    She was also allegedly able to whisper to a dry cow and make it give milk. People would bring cows to her to do that.
    
    Most people now would call that witchcraft and think she was a Pagan, but in that community, she was looked at almost like a Doctor.
    And Vet...LOL
    And she was considered a good church going woman by the town.
    
    So when did the "Pagan" beliefs and Christian ideas part company?
    I know in their little isolated farming community, it didn't happen till the late 60s evidently.

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11. 74

    True Truthseekerposted 14 years ago

    The following SHOWS what the Bible says about
    the One whom God sent. John 8:42.
    
    Deuteronomy 18:15-19 (American Standard Version)
    15 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
    16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
    17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
    18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
    19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
    John 6:14 (English Standard Version)
    14When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said,(A) "This is indeed(B) the Prophet(C) who is to come into the world!"
    John 7:40 (English Standard Version)
    40When they heard these words,(A) some of the people said, "This really is(B) the Prophet."
    
    John 4 (English Standard Version)
    John 4:19- 26
    
    
    19The woman said to him, "Sir, I perceive that(P) you are(Q) a prophet. 20(R) Our fathers worshiped on(S) this mountain, but you say that(T) in Jerusalem is(U) the place where people ought to worship." 21Jesus said to her, (V) "Woman, believe me,(W) the hour is coming when(X) neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22(Y) You worship what you do not know;(Z) we worship what we know, for(AA) salvation is from the Jews. 23But(AB) the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father(AC) in spirit and(AD) truth, for the Father(AE) is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." 25The woman said to him, "I know that(AF) Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes,(AG) he will tell us all things." 26Jesus said to her, (AH) "I who speak to you am he."
    
    
    John 3 (King James Version)
    John 3:34- 36
    34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
    35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
    36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    John 5 (King James Version)
    John 5:45 - 47
    45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
    46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
    47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
    John 12:49 (King James Version)
    49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
    Acts 3 (King James Version)
    Acts 3:19 – 23
    19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
    20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
    21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
    22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
    23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
    Hebrews 1 (New King James Version)
    Hebrews 1
    God’s Supreme Revelation
    1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
    
    Jesus Christ, was and is The Prophet, the Son and High Priest of God Almighty, JEHOVAH.
    
    The various religious SECTS that form PROFESSED-CHRISTIANITY are referred to as
    Christendom. Christendom, LARGELY, DO NOT understand the SIGNIFICANCE of the Christ, or Messiah [anointed One].
    
    Almighty God's Holy Writings [Bible] records for us at John 6:44: No man can come to me unless the Father, who SENT me, DRAWS him; and I will resurrect him at the LAST DAY.
    
    Verse 45 says: It is WRITTEN in the Prophets, 'And they WILL BE TAUGHT by Jehovah.'
    EVERYONE that has HEARD from the Father and has LEARNED comes to me.
    
    Surely, then, God Almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [Exodus 6:2, 3], the Creator, the Source of TRUE WISDOM, in his OWN WAY, and TIME, draws honest-hearted ones to UNDERSTAND the SIGNIFICANCE of the One whom He sent, Jesus Christ. [John 8:42].
    Please SEE Proverbs 2: 1-6; Psalm 111:10; Proverbs 9:10; Jeremiah 9:23,24; Jeremiah 31:31-34. Also, Acts 8:26-39.   Proverbs 8:13.
    
    Romans 1:1-4 read: Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ and called to be an apostle, separated to God's good news, which he promised aforetime through his PROPHETS in the HOLY SCRIPTURES concerning his Son, who sprang from the seed of David according to the FLESH, but who with power WAS DECLARED God's Son ACCORDING TO THE
    SPIRIT of holiness by means of a resurrection from the dead- yes, Jesus Christ our
    Lord,.......
    
    BOOK OF LUKE
    
    At Luke 1:31-33 we read: and, look! you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son,
    and you are to call his name Jesus. This one WILL be great and WILL be called Son of
    the Most High; and JEHOVAH God WILL GIVE him the throne of David his father, and
    he WILL RULE as king OVER THE HOUSE OF Jacob, FOREVER, and there WILL be
    no end of his kingdom."  Compare with Daniel 7:13,14; 2:44; Isaiah 11: 1-9; Psalm 2:7,8.
    
    Luke 2:29-32 say: "Now, Sovereign Lord, you are letting your slave go free in peace
    according to your declaration; because MY EYES HAVE SEEN your MEANS of
    SAVING that you have made ready in the SIGHT OF ALL THE PEOPLES, a LIGHT
    for REMOVING the VEIL from the nations and a glory of your people Israel.
    
    Christ, Died a sacrificial death to ATONE for ADAMIC sin passed on to MANKIND.
    
    God ALMIGHTY has allowed his ONLY begotten Son Jesus Christ, to PAY the FULL price of Adam and Eve's indiscretion and disobedience [John 3:16];
    [1 Corinthians 11: 3] As family head, Adam's perfect life NEEDED another perfect MAN's LIFE to FULLY PAY that DEBT of sin, ERASING the PENALTY of DEATH to those who ACT by placing their FAITH and WORKS in this
    provision. James 2: 17; Romans 5:12; Romans 6: 23; John 1: 29;
    Revelation 5: 5 - 7. 1 Corinthians 15:45.
    
    Christ, appointed King and High Priest
    
    Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no regret): "You are a priest to time indefinite
    According to the manner of Mel-chiz'e-dek!"
    Psalm 110:4
    ... where a forerunner has entered in our behalf, Jesus, who has become a high priest according
    to the manner of Mel-chiz'e-dek forever.
    Hebrews 6:20
    
    The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
    "Sit at my right hand
    Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.
    Psalm 110: 1.
    Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and
    he has SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a public
    servant of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah put up, and not man.
    Hebrews 8: 1, 2.
    Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: "What do you think about the
    Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him: "David's" He said to them: "How, then, is it that David
    by inspiration calls him 'Lord,' saying, 'Jehovah said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put
    your enemies beneath your feet"? If, therefore, David calls him 'Lord,' how is he his son? And
    nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, nor did anyone dare from that day on to question
    him further.
    Matthew 22: 41 - 46
    
    Existed BEFORE as a spirit son of God Almighty, prior to being manifested in FLESH.
    
    ORIGINS
    
    Micah 5: 2
    And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah,
    from you there will come out to me the one who is to BECOME RULER in Israel, whose
    ORIGIN is from EARLY TIMES, from the days of time indefinite.
    
    So, here we SEE that Jesus Christ, the Messiah [anointed One] is this RULER, whose
    ORIGIN is from EARLY TIMES. This is CONSISTENT with Revelation 3: 14 and
    Colossians 1: 15 showing Jesus Christ as being the BEGINNING of the creation by God Almighty.
    Also, this is in AGREEMENT with Proverbs 8: 22 - 31 which refers to Jesus as Wisdom
    personified. One can also look at 1 Corinthians 8: 3 - 6; John 10: 34 - 36; Psalm 82: 1, 6.
    See also John 1: 14, 15.Galatians 4:14
    
    Revelation 3: 12 & 14 say: The one that conquers- I will make him a pillar in
    the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and
    I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God,
    the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new
    name of mine.
    And to the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These are the things that
    the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by
    God.
    
    
    The Scriptures DO NOT teach that God Almighty, Yahweh or Jehovah [Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83: 18]
    as having a beginning or ORIGIN. Rather the Scriptures refer to Jehovah, as "the One that lives
    FOREVER and EVER..." Revelation 4: 10, 11.
    
    
    John 17:24 shows that Jesus was LOVED by his Father, Jehovah, before the EARTH was
    FORMED.
    Compare Proverbs 8: 22-30. See also, Revelation 3:12, 14; Colossians 1:15-20.
    Hebrews 1:1 - 4.
    John 5: 22-24 read: For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the
    judging to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
    He that does not honor the Son DOES NOT honor the Father WHO SENT him.
    MOST TRULY I say to you, he that HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES him that
    SENT me has EVERLASTING LIFE, and he DOES NOT come into JUDGMENT
    but has PASSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE."
    
    Philippians 2:5- 11 say: Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,
    who, although he was EXISTING in God's form, gave NO CONSIDERATION to a
    SEIZURE, namely, that he should be EQUAL TO God. No, but he EMPTIED himself
    and took a slave's form and came to be in the LIKENESS of men. More than that, when
    he FOUND himself in fashion as a man, he HUMBLED himself and became obedient
    AS FAR AS death, yes, death on a torture stake.
    For this VERY REASON also God EXALTED him to a SUPERIOR POSITION and
    kindly GAVE him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of
    Jesus EVERY knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under
    the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to
    the glory of God the Father.
    
    But if anyone loves God, this one is KNOWN by him.
    Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is NOTHING in the
    world, and that there is no God but ONE.
    For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heavens or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us ONE God, the Father, out of whom ALL things are, and we for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him. 1 Corinthians 8: 3, 4, 5, 6.
    
    Here we see, that there is ONE God, the Father, Jehovah [Yahweh]; and one Lord, the Son, Jesus Christ, as being TRUE, though there ARE many FALSE "gods" and "lords".
    See also, Galatians 3:20, Deuteronomy 6:4.
    
    Jesus Christ is Son of Almighty God, Jehovah.
    
    The account at 1 Corinthians 8, is CONSISTENT with the rest of the Scriptures, please
    SEE Colossians 1: 15, 16; Deuteronomy 6: 4; Psalm 82: 1, 6 and John 10: 34, 35, 36;
    John 5: 30.   See, also Revelation 3:12,14, John 14: 28; 1 Corinthians 15: 28,
    Matthew 24: 36. 1 Peter1: 3, Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:3.
    Also John 5:19, John 8:42, John 12:49, John 20:17, 31; 1John 5:5, Galatians 4:14,
    Hebrews 3: 1, 2.

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    1. 79

       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Oh Lord...
       
       Have you any idea the authors of these verses you've posted?

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12. 72

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    True Truthseeker. Your name speaks volumes to me, but not in the way you intended.
    Do we have yet another silly sock puppet who has learnt how to cut and paste?

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       Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I think, we need a new name for our cut-paste buddies

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       1. 72

          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          A couple come to mind!

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          1. 71

             Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             ah dont b shy ...show me the full list!

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                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I fear I would be missing in minutes!

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    2. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I find it very funny just how many who give themselves names such as "Truthseeker" seem to already have all the answers and what they really mean is "Teach you the Truth".
       
       Which turns out to be cut and pasted nonsense from a book written back in the bronze ages and translated by a bunch of parasitic priests with  vested interest in never doing any work.

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13. 60

    TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago

    Sun worship - Amen.

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       Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Nice nick btw,  ALL SEEING EYE = THE EYE OF THE HORUS = The Sun God

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14. 72

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    You have a point or two mythbuster. there are many other gods in the same boat as Horus so to speak, but some of the information on many of them has become a bit sullied by earlier protagonists changing or ignoring meaning to overstate the case as do the pro religious when stating theirs... over all though the thrust of this seems sound enough.

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    1. 79

       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hey earnestshub,
       
       I appreciate this part of what you've expressed:
       
       "[...] some of the information on many of them has become a bit sullied by earlier protagonists changing or ignoring meaning to overstate the case as do the pro religious when stating theirs..."
       
       Do you think THIS point is much of the reason why various people of various beliefs don't seem to get along? lol
       
       I can't imagine standing to one side so much as to discount what all the varying information, legends, mythologies say about historical figures, mythological entities, the works...why some people have to go far to one side without experiencing or enjoying information from a different side or viewpoint is beyond me...
       
       *sigh* propaganda is sooo interesting - but it's exhausting to wade through to find the "possible" and "bunk" lol

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, I do mythbuster, I really do. It would be easier to have a discussion if the truth did not become the casualty of "winning" that discussion.
          
          I am in the world to learn. I find overstatement to hinder that somewhat.

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15. 79

    mythbusterposted 14 years ago

    Thx again earnestshub - I heard ya on that last one.
    
    Anyone else know where a list came from like what Rishy Rich posted to start this thread?
    
    Might this be Zeitgeist propaganda?
    
    I DO get the point (rather, I believe that the point is) about Horus and Jesus having similarities and similar attributes as "Archetypes" but I'm still checking some points on the long list Rishy Rich posted.

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16. 57

    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    IF these claims about Horus were made 1000 years before Christ was born then this rips the rug out fom under Christianity as it would then condemn it as nothing more than a borrowed religion.
    
    Interesting note ... the jews were enslaved by the Egyptians, so wouldn't it be the ultimate salute to their former captives (the egyptians) to steal their gods from them and rework them into an imagery to suit their own taste?
    
    If this were so, thi would make Christianity a religion of the oppressed and a means by which to seek salvation from such oppression. Was salvation in ancient times not seen as freedom from the Egyptians ... and later the Romans?
    
    
    Something else of interest ... God helped the jews escape their Egyptian captors (according to the Bible) but he did not help the christians escape the Romans. As a matter of fact, had the Romans not converted to Christianity, and had their ability to control their lands not weakened, might the Chirstian still be their slaves to this day?
    
    If the Christians were God's chosen ones, why did he not favor them when they were being slaughtered for sport in Rome? And for those who say they were born to their fate, then why did God favor the Jews before them?
    
    I'm not against Jewish people (I have Jewish friends). I'm just trying to understand the favoritism that was obviously shown, according to the Biblical and historical accounts.
    
    And while we are on the topic ... if Jesus died for man's sins, why weren't the Chirstians freed then? Was God saying it was okay for the Romans to continue persecuting the Christians (which they did) because Jesus died to offer the Roman's forgiveness? this is a very confusing message, as the Messiah was supposed to free them all from slavery.
    
    So ... either Moses was the Messiah or it was Constatantine I. Both were directly responsible for freeing god's people from slavery, and yet we give the credit to a man who died and freed no one ... Am I the only one who finds this confusing?

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       True Truthseekerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       What I am about to say may appear "fanatical" or "weird" to you, but, there are some things that cannot be understood in a physical way, but in a spiritual way.
       Having spent years proving the reliability of the Holy Writings, what we today refer to as the Bible, I usually let it speak for itself. One will not understand, the contents of the Bible, unless he realizes that it was indeed inspired of and by Yahweh/ JEHOVAH, the One who is not governed by time, and  out of whom all things are [the universe, visible and invisible creation]. JEHOVAH created all things through His first invisible Son, whom he has elevated, the Word. Only by a SERIOUS SEARCH of its contents aided by JEHOVAH's holy spirit, an enabling force that enlightens, fortifies and energizes.
       
       Christ [anointed One].
       
       After Adam disobeyed, the penalty was death. Adam was placed outside of JEHOVAH's protective care, eventually died, a fate that  would befall his
       progeny. So then, death ruled as 'king'.
       
       After Moses mediated the Mosaic covenant, [Exodus 19:6] transgression was the order of the day, so then transgression ruled as 'king'.
       
       When Christ mediated the New Covenant [Jeremiah 31:31- 34], [it was subsequently revealed that physical Israel was rejected by JEHOVAH, because they rejected the Christ/ Messiah], this was done with spiritual Israel [those anointed with holy spirit, as Christ had been]
       Matthew 21:43; Matt. 23:38; Acts 15:14 to 20]
       
       So then, Christ made it possible for death due to Adam, and death due to
       the transgression of the Law, to be done away with. Hence, Christ actually opened a way of freedom from death and sin. All this made possible by JEHOVAH, the God and Father of Christ. 1 Peter 1:3.
       Romans 6:14-23 (GOD’S WORD Translation)
       14Certainly, sin shouldn’t have power over you because you’re not controlled by laws, but by God’s favor.[a]
       
       15Then what is the implication? Should we sin because we are not controlled by laws but are controlled by God’s favor? That’s unthinkable! 16Don’t you know that if you offer to be someone’s slave, you must obey that master? Either your master is sin, or your master is obedience. Letting sin be your master leads to death. Letting obedience be your master leads to God’s approval. 17You were slaves to sin. But I thank God that you have become wholeheartedly obedient to the teachings which you were given. 18Freed from sin, you were made slaves who do what God approves of.
       
       19I’m speaking in a human way because of the weakness of your corrupt nature. Clearly, you once offered all the parts of your body as slaves to sexual perversion and disobedience. This led you to live disobedient lives. Now, in the same way, offer all the parts of your body as slaves that do what God approves of. This leads you to live holy lives. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from doing what God approves of.
       
       21What did you gain by doing those things? You’re ashamed of what you used to do because it ended in death. 22Now you have been freed from sin and have become God’s slaves. This results in a holy life and, finally, in everlasting life. 23The reward for sin is death, but the gift that God freely gives is everlasting life found in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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       glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You are making the same mistake as the Jewish leaders.  They rejected Jesus because they did not understand that the Messiah was not a military deliverer but a Suffering Servant.
       
       Unlike the titanic war gods of mythology, Jesus Christ became man in order to save man.  A kingdom of grace.  Check the Sermon on the Mount.
       
       The book of Revelation shows the end of the story, earth's lamb is heaven's lion.

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17. 57

    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    I thought I would add some interesting fodder to all of this:
    
    Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
    
    The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15)
    
    Now, if you read this carefully you realize the job of the Messiah is to overthrow those in charge and place Israelites back in charge if Israel.
    
    It's also mentioned that a new world government is created that rules from Jerusalem. To date this has not occurred, but this is what many feel 'The New World Order' is all about. And there are even those who believe this will be the beginning of the 1,000 years that will precede the end of days for mankind.
    
    I'm not saying I subscribe to any of that, but if any of that were true, then it's no wonder the Jewish people still await their Messiah, as by definition he has not yet arrived.

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       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       A lot of "conjecture" here, Yoshi97...
       
       Not to be disrespectful at all here, but... with "our" (modern people, all of us or most of us) "world view" - it is very hard to understand all this myth stuff and "borrowing" because we have different laws and such, different ways of living.
       
       So (just a different way to imagine things for just a few moments) if we find out more about the ancient world view, might we not find that this "borrowing" of myth is very much "natural" and a part of developing culture - rather than "stealing gods" and such?
       
       I mean - probably not every ancient had a political motive but at the same time, probably most ancient people attempted to explain the world around them - all the other cultures they came into contact with. Peoples' minds change as they encounter information, right? Well, mine certaily does quite often... so it makes sense to me that ancient people "adopted" variations of gods from other cultures which made sense to them or which offered better explanations at certain times than their current gods/myths/legends.
       
       I'm not sure that all the things we call 'hateful' between old cultures and ancient religions are intended 'with mal-intent' but might be natural courses of development...in our modern day, we're certainly (not all but a great many of us) judgmental and we often believe we are infinitely smarter than many ancient peoples partly because we have very advanced technologies, computers, machines that weren't around thousands of years ago... (note - we kill with these machines without thinking much of the time tho' too - so how smart are we?).
       
       I dunno... just my way of thinking, I guess - but it comes from studying tons of really COOL mythological accounts from all over, seeing similarities, archetypes, and also - from seeing that in most cultures there are similarities in priciples, needs, wants, etc., of the people.
       
       Could be that I'm out to lunch tho' lol

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    True Truthseekerposted 14 years ago

    Of all ancient Books, the Bible [as translated from Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Aramaic manuscripts] is the most attested as to accuracy of transmission.
    
    It has proven to be in many cases, centuries ahead of its time in key concepts of what we call today, science.
    Shape of Planet Earth:
    Isaiah 40:22: "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth." In ancient times the general opinion was that the earth was flat. It was not until over 200 years after this Bible text had been written that a school of Greek philosophers reasoned that the earth likely was spherical, and in another 300 years a Greek astronomer calculated the approximate radius of the earth.
    
    Lev. 11:6: "The hare........is a chewer of the cud." Though this was long attacked by some critics, the rabbit's cud chewing was finally observed by Englishman William Cowper in the 18th century. The unusual way in which it is done was described in 1940 in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, Vol. 110, Series A, pp. 159-163.
    It must be stated that the eventual classification by science
    in the past century,and the 'invention' of the terms ruminant and refection, in no way invalidate the Bible's account recorded over 3500 years ago.
    
    Isaiah 40:26: "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.
    Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
    The scriptures above confirm that the earth had a beginning [Big Bang], and that MATTER CAN BE CREATED.
    
    The prophetic accuracy is astounding.
    
    1 Peter 4:7 says: But the end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore,  and be vigilant with a view to prayers.
    
    Proof
    
    1. High Prices [And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say:
    "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine. Revelation 6:6]. n.b. denarius = a day's wages [approx.]
    
    2. No Peace; wars, violence, crimes etc. on the INCREASE [And another came forth, a fiery-coloured horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him. Revelation 6:4]. 
    
    3. Deadly Plagues, Food Shortages, Political killings. [.... And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortages and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. [Revelation 6: 8b]. n.b. wild beasts sometimes refer to political elements.
    
    4. Ridiculers, Proceeding according to their OWN DESIRES. [For you know this first, that in the LAST DAYS there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his?
    Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing
    exactly as from creation's beginning." 2 Peter 3:3, 4].   
    
    5. Critical Times. [But know this, that in the LAST DAYS critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 Timothy 3:1]
    
    6. Money Lovers, Egotists, Haughtiness abound. [For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal... 2 Timothy 3:2].
    
    7.  Fierceness, unwillingness to agree abound. [having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness.
    2Timothy 3:3].
    
    8. Lovers of Pleasures, Rather than Lovers of God. [betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God. 2 Timothy 3:4]
    
    9. Religious Hypocrisy abounds. [having a form of godly devotion but proving FALSE  to its power; and from these turn away. 2 Timothy 3:5].
         
    10. Boisterous Crowds increase. [Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and
    stars, and on earth ANGUISH of NATIONS, NOT KNOWING THE WAY OUT because of the ROARING of the SEA and [its] AGITATION. Luke 21:25]
    n.b. sea here, denotes man alienated from God. Compare Isaiah 57:20, Jude 13.
    
    11. Preaching of Good News, increases. [And this good news of the kingdom will be
    preached in ALL the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and THEN the
    END WILL COME. Matthew 24:14].
    
    12. Knowledge Increases. ["And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the TIME of [THE] END. MANY will ROVE about, and the [true] knowledge will BECOME ABUNDANT." Daniel 12: 4]
    
    This list is by no means exhaustive. Frequency and severity of earthquakes, frequency of wars, increased anxiety ETC. are also included in the SIGNS of the LAST DAYS, please see Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 etc. 
    
    
    The Bible's internal harmony, proves it is not entirely of man
    nor from man. Rather as it itself says:
    
    "Prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2Pe 1:21)
    
    Jehovah himself set the precedent for having laws and commandments written down. After speaking to Moses in Mount Sinai, Jehovah "proceeded to give Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God's finger." (Ex 31:18) Later we read, "And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: 'Write down for yourself these words.'" (Ex 34:27) Jehovah, therefore, was the one who communicated with Moses and instructed him to write down and preserve the first books of the Bible canon. No council of men made them canonical; from their inception they had divine approval.

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19. 74

    True Truthseekerposted 14 years ago

    Of all ancient Books, the Bible [as translated from Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Aramaic manuscripts] is the most attested as to accuracy of transmission.
    
    It has proven to be in many cases, centuries ahead of its time in key concepts of what we call today, science.
    Shape of Planet Earth:
    Isaiah 40:22: "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth." In ancient times the general opinion was that the earth was flat. It was not until over 200 years after this Bible text had been written that a school of Greek philosophers reasoned that the earth likely was spherical, and in another 300 years a Greek astronomer calculated the approximate radius of the earth.
    
    Lev. 11:6: "The hare........is a chewer of the cud." Though this was long attacked by some critics, the rabbit's cud chewing was finally observed by Englishman William Cowper in the 18th century. The unusual way in which it is done was described in 1940 in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, Vol. 110, Series A, pp. 159-163.
    It must be stated that the eventual classification by science
    in the past century,and the 'invention' of the terms ruminant and refection, in no way invalidate the Bible's account recorded over 3500 years ago.
    
    Isaiah 40:26: "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.
    Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
    The scriptures above confirm that the earth had a beginning [Big Bang], and that MATTER CAN BE CREATED.
    
    The prophetic accuracy is astounding.
    
    1 Peter 4:7 says: But the end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore,  and be vigilant with a view to prayers.
    
    Proof
    
    1. High Prices [And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say:
    "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine. Revelation 6:6]. n.b. denarius = a day's wages [approx.]
    
    2. No Peace; wars, violence, crimes etc. on the INCREASE [And another came forth, a fiery-coloured horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him. Revelation 6:4]. 
    
    3. Deadly Plagues, Food Shortages, Political killings. [.... And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortages and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. [Revelation 6: 8b]. n.b. wild beasts sometimes refer to political elements.
    
    4. Ridiculers, Proceeding according to their OWN DESIRES. [For you know this first, that in the LAST DAYS there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his?
    Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing
    exactly as from creation's beginning." 2 Peter 3:3, 4].   
    
    5. Critical Times. [But know this, that in the LAST DAYS critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 Timothy 3:1]
    
    6. Money Lovers, Egotists, Haughtiness abound. [For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal... 2 Timothy 3:2].
    
    7.  Fierceness, unwillingness to agree abound. [having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness.
    2Timothy 3:3].
    
    8. Lovers of Pleasures, Rather than Lovers of God. [betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God. 2 Timothy 3:4]
    
    9. Religious Hypocrisy abounds. [having a form of godly devotion but proving FALSE  to its power; and from these turn away. 2 Timothy 3:5].
         
    10. Boisterous Crowds increase. [Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and
    stars, and on earth ANGUISH of NATIONS, NOT KNOWING THE WAY OUT because of the ROARING of the SEA and [its] AGITATION. Luke 21:25]
    n.b. sea here, denotes man alienated from God. Compare Isaiah 57:20, Jude 13.
    
    11. Preaching of Good News, increases. [And this good news of the kingdom will be
    preached in ALL the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and THEN the
    END WILL COME. Matthew 24:14].
    
    12. Knowledge Increases. ["And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the TIME of [THE] END. MANY will ROVE about, and the [true] knowledge will BECOME ABUNDANT." Daniel 12: 4]
    
    This list is by no means exhaustive. Frequency and severity of earthquakes, frequency of wars, increased anxiety ETC. are also included in the SIGNS of the LAST DAYS, please see Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 etc. 
    
    
    The Bible's internal harmony, proves it is not entirely of man
    nor from man. Rather as it itself says:
    
    "Prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2Pe 1:21)
    
    Jehovah himself set the precedent for having laws and commandments written down. After speaking to Moses in Mount Sinai, Jehovah "proceeded to give Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God's finger." (Ex 31:18) Later we read, "And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: 'Write down for yourself these words.'" (Ex 34:27) Jehovah, therefore, was the one who communicated with Moses and instructed him to write down and preserve the first books of the Bible canon. No council of men made them canonical; from their inception they had divine approval.

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20. 79

    mythbusterposted 14 years ago

    Yoshi97 - I didn't overlook your comment about the "religion of the oppressed."
    
    I think a lot of people do agree that Christianity is a religion of the oppressed...

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    glendoncabaposted 14 years ago

    Personally I would prefer to invite a learned Egyptologist to give us some original scholarship.
    
    But look around the internet and think critically
    
    OK OK  for starters here is a Christian site which refutes the false claims:
    
    http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/I … Horus_Myth
    
    
    After refuting the lies the writer was brave enough to say:
    
    From this quick examination of the Horus tradition, we can see that he was NOT conceived of a virgin, and his mother’s name was NOT Meri. There were NOT three wise men who attended his birth, and he had NO earthly father named Joseph. He was NOT born in a cave or manger (he was born in a swamp), his birth was NOT heralded by an angel, nor was it attended by shepherds. There are NO missing 18 years in his life story, and NO story about a special event in the temple at twelve. He was NOT baptized at 30 by a baptizer who was later beheaded. He did NOT have 12 disciples, and while he certainly performed miracles, he did NOT exorcize demons, raise the dead or walk on water like Jesus. Horus was NOT called, “Iusa”, the "ever-becoming son", the "Holy Child", the “Way”, “the Truth the Light”, “Messiah”, “God's Anointed Son”, “Son of Man”, “Good Shepherd”, “Lamb of God”, “Word made flesh”, “Word of Truth”, "the KRST" or the "Anointed One”! He did NOT deliver a "Sermon on the Mount", NOR was he transfigured. He was NOT crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, NOR resurrected! He did NOT come to fulfill the law and was NOT said to reign for one thousand years. So in hindsight, how similar is Horus to Jesus after all?

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    mythbusterposted 14 years ago

    But glendaoncaba, you keep committing "argumentum ad verecundiam," (bad argument by way of appealing to authority) because your authority is also a source for mythology/narrative.
    
    You've also committed "non sequitur" in affirming (with too many jumps) the consequent - that because you found online sources which refute something, you're using a questionable source to say "it follows that the Dionysus myth is bunk because it is like the Horus myth which was debunked (by a questionable source) online, too - or by one authority. In this argument, I feel there are a few points/links missing for a final statement to be issued as you have done.
    
    Not to mention - you've used a site for which there are no Latin words to adequately describe the HORROR of the yellow background which assaults the eyes when I try to go read on-site.
    
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaagh *holds cross up* oh crap, sorry - that's for vampire myth... lol
    
    LOL sorry - just arguing here. And messin' around on that last very bright yellow background site.
    
    Really, glendaoncaba, I find your arguments interesting and I'm not totally trying to discount everything you've posted but there are a few items of interest that are promoted by you with a sort of faulty argument, to my way of thinking. Of course, you can just tell me to flock off here and send me to another site with a different bright colour and yes, I actually check these links out 'cos I'm interested in your argument...
    
    I must admit tho' - cool articles at these site links.

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       glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       By now you would have noticed that the fellow has done his research and debunked Dionysus copycat myth, et al.
       
       http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
       
       Refreshing to see someone who has done real homework sit down and debunk the invented arguments.
       
       Sorry for the glaring yellow

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          mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          He has debunked "a version" of the Dionysus myth, glendoncaba. Not tryin' to be snotty here but this is the only way I find I can interpret the purpose of what this dude-with the heinous yellow background site is up to...
          
          LOL @ U and LOL @ me arguing here. This is sorta fun... I had to dig out my Barry Powell (Greco-Roman mythology and Ancient authors) text at home here and I'm scanning excerpts of freakin' PLATO DIALOGUES for what Plato says wrote about the gods lmao... (got stuck in the Plato "Cave" story for a few minutes - again - whoops)
          
          That yellooooouch site is hurting me very much but I love the content on it.
          
          BIG LOL at U tho' (please take this the right way) for thinking I can get through all these arguments from the heinous yellow site so quickly...... and have made an overall decision already.
          
          Gosh, I haven't even gotten to the Horus articles yet...but I expect they'll be interesting...

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    mythbusterposted 14 years ago

    Yes, the varied cultures who promoted, wrote, edited, re-edited scriptures DID get aspects of Jesus from pagans...
    
    (is this going to get me in trouble?) lol Hey it got me off the yellow site for a moment.
    
    "plagiarism" from ancient cultures wasn't done with the 'world view' that we are stuck in about "black/white - truth/lies"... "borrowing stories from other cultures" was commonplace - even encouraged in ancient times.
    
    Sorry Mark - I jumped in - I dunno if anyone will agree with me but I'm glad I'm away from the yellow site for just 5 min lol

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       glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       May I suggest that we communicate with words.  Words are culturally tied to the experience of humanity in a particular society.  So the retelling of the greatest stories will be influenced by the existing narratives.  Fine.
       
       Even Paul quoted from pagan poets. 
       
       But he did not steal from them.  He used the expressions to illustrate his inspired message.
       
       This is far different from creating a God for which one is prepared to die.  No, Jesus walked in Palestine.  Taught of the kingdom.  Died.  Rose again.  And slow stubborn fishermen became believers who died for the faith.

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          mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          "Stealing" and our perception of plagiarization is problematic here, I believe, glendoncaba...
          
          When I go to participate in a native storytelling circle, if a person shows up who is not familiar with the practice of a certain kind of 'borrowing' from narratives - the newcomer will be agast at the 'stealing' that storytellers do AND the fact that one of us will attribute a story to a previous storyteller when it is obvious that the last speaker just "made stuff up."
          
          It is an honour to have ones words attributed to another's 'style' or flavour of storytelling in many existing cultures. It is a respect to give ones words (if the story has been well told) to another, too.
          
          However, in a different non-native group, one might get severely reprimanded for "stealing" content/style...or even in native circles, it is unthinkable to blend stories or style with certain elders or people in certain roles... narrative is complicated.

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             glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             The point I am making is twofold:
             
             Two points really:
             
             1.  Language and narrative contain ambiguities which can be misconstrued for copying.
             
             2.  Albert Lord quoted at Tektonics.org:  "Traditional narrators tend to tell what happened in terms of already existent patterns of story
             
             
             That's just language and communication.
             
             Now at the level of theology there are two things I believe are happening:
             
             1.  Primitive cultures are blessed with memories of the pure and holy Creator, but religious heritage has been corrupted by idolatry.  Echoes again of Ernest's favourite psychologist.
             
             2.  (And this will sound kind of weird to unbelievers) The devil will influence persons to invent myths that will counterfeit the messiah so that when the real Messiah turned up the world will express doubt and misunderstand His message.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                How convenient. Any proof to the contrary of your story was planted by the devil. LOLOLOLOLO
                
                Dear me......
                
                What if the jesus myth is just a myth GlendonCaba. You will die for it? LOLOL

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                   glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Demonstrate that you have seen evidence of the debunking of the Christ-myth copycats.
                   
                   Otherwise I wont take you seriously.
                   
                   (Just got back access and losing sleep already.  Going to bed.  Gotta drive to Montego Bay tomorrow to attend a funeral and visit family, on 2 hours of sleep.)

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                      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Evidence? Not sure we agree on what that means Glendon Caba. I personally have seen evidence in favor of the Horus/Christ similarities.
                      
                      I have also seem numerous Kristians attacking and "debunking" not only Horus, but evolution, geology, plate tectonics etc.
                      
                      You still have no answered my question.
                      
                      What if the jesus myth is jut a myth. How much of your life will you have wasted? How many people will you have persuaded not to become a better person in favor of being prepared to die for jesus.
                      
                      Honestly - I have no problem with people dying for jesus - go for it I say. The issue comes when they are prepared to kill for jesus.
                      
                      nahhhh - the last 2000 years didn't see any of that. LOL The devil is lying. LOL You are not here - yet again - fighting and arguing and telling everyone how right you are. LOL The devil is lying to me. LOL
                      
                      Now - answer the question instead of telling me how right you are please.

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                         glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         No bully tactics with what do you forum veterans call it...rabbit holes.
                         
                         Focus on one topic at a time.  The successful debunking of the Christ-myth copycat allegation.
                         
                         You are challenged to validate the claim that Christianity copied previous pagan gods.
                         
                         Why do you keep insisting on a more specific answer from me if jesus is just a myth.  Stop annoying me with a question that I have already answered.  You may not like the answer but it is no excuse to be obnoxious.
                         
                         This thread is not about the possible disillusionment of Christians in a post-religious world.
                         
                         On the contrary, the new world order will be promoted with a religious content.  Antichrist.

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                         1. 72

                            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Would that be the Obama anti-christ? No, he wouldn't make it. The anti-christ looks like a good guy right?

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                               dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               No, it is Obamanation with an sssssssssssst

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24. 72

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    

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25. 79

    mythbusterposted 14 years ago

    Holy hannah - that was fast, earnestshub!

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26. 72

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    

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27. 72

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    

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       dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       earnestshub-   hahahahaah of course you did, he is the little green dude who is Latin

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28. 75

    Lady Roseposted 14 years ago

    There are many similarities between the story of Horus and the life of Jesus. What comes to my mind to possibly find a reasonable explanation for such a coincidence, would be that maybe some earnest spiritual seekers in Egypt (1000 years before Christ was born) received a prophecy about the future advent of Jesus. Isaiah did the same thing and prophesized about many amazing details of Jesus's life that came true hundreds of years later. Perhaps the egyptian seer got the name wrong, or got it mixed up. Jesus was called many other names also thru the Bible, Emanuel, Yesuah,  son of man, son of righteousness, prince of peace, etc.
    I dont see anything in those similarities that would make me doubt of the authenticity of Jesus. Actually it makes it more exciting and more credible to me. No other character in history has had so many people speak of Him before He was even born!
    Jesus is the Best of all!

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       pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       i liked ur way of seeing thing although i am not religious person..

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       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No amount of facts are going to persuade you of anything are they?
       
       I am not sure we are speaking the same language though. What do you mean by "reasonable" and "credible"?

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          poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          it's sunday Mark,, leave us alone

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Us? I don't recall speaking to you.

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             The Darkened Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Sunday...Sun(day)!...Sun(God)!...Oh, Too many Sun, its getting hot here

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29. 0

    Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

    Being the two most powerful of all deity cultures - Egypt & Israel- it is only natural to expect similar approaches to these events.
    One by pagan, the other by Hebrew.
    Does it negate the work or outcome of Y`shua? Not really.
    Ra v Yah is not so coincidental. Any first semester theologian could pick up on this and see how the pagans attempted to show they had a 'savior' too. Also shows both wanted/needed one...

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       Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       ...which in fact did occur.
       
       Am still curious as to why the necessity to accept or not the work presented by either title, yet ignore the fundamental command he/they gave and portrayed. Seems the fact-ory keeps greasing itself up only to spin its wheels, again.
       
       How about this: debunk both as myth. Now, what do you have left? Half eaten cornucopias of satire and bitterness. What a waste of food. Really. All the starving souls out there would kill for even a morsel from your plates. All you 'good, kind' folk from the moral, though logical non-belief and the moral sensitive absolute, might want to start a catering company. Cater to the basic human need of others -no matter their belief- and see how mythical it really is.
       
       just a thought.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    This one?
    
    
    

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       dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       yeah very good- you got this one covered

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Or this one?
    
    

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       dugger62posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       well if he isn't - then he is working for him.

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32. 53

    (Q)posted 14 years ago

    We'll observe believers fighting vehemently to preserve their religion and will never admit to these parallels having any relevance to their belief system. Of course, their system doesn't even stand on it's own as having anything to do with reality, so drawing parallels is rather pointless considering.

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       glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Nobody said the parallels are irrelevant.
       
       The more corrupted the brand of christianity you encounter the more pagan influences you will observe.
       
       Reformers usually begin by subtracting the pagan content from the pure.  Luther, Calvin, Knox, all tried.

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          Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You took the words that I was going to say right out of my mouth.
          
             But lets not forget that they, at first were considered to be heretics and blasphemers, till it caught on.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes - all you believers think you have the right brand of christianity and the others have got it wrong. Hence the wars and animosity.
          
          That is the problem with believing nonsense. One day you will wake up and see the hatred and ill will spread by doing this.
          
          I hope you will anyway.
          
          Lying doesn't help either. Saying "bwaaaa!! Horus is all made up"!! " when your entire belief system is pulled out of some one's backside and stolen from previous belief systems.......
          
          Well - If you were not blinded by belief - you could see how hypocritical that is and it certainly doesn't count as "debunking" because everything said can be applied to christianity.
          
          Ahhh - Easter - my favorite pagan holiday.
          
          It celebrates the rebirth of Attis who died and was resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25.....

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             glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Mark Knowles by now you know that historic Seventh-day Adventist Christians  do not celebrate Easter.
             
             
             
             http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
             
             "Pagan origins of Easter:
             
             Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a consort, Attis, who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. Attis was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25.
             
             Gerald L. Berry, author of "Religions of the World," wrote:
             
                 "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3"
             
             ...
             
             
             "Many religious historians and liberal theologians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply  grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity.  Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value with no connection to Jesus. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition."

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          (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So, from the extensive list of Christian sects and denominations, yours is not corrupt, the most corrupt or somewhere in between?
          
          
          Choose wisely.

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             glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             You could say we are on the cutting edge of the Reformation.
             
             Continue what Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Wesley, et al were doing.
             
             We do not see a biblical command or precedent for celebration of Christmas or Easter.
             
             The Lord's Supper and Baptism were commanded by our Lord.

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                Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No offence but I was looking in scripture for a commandment concerning the Lords Supper. I don't think that it is written as a commandment for all believers to establish a tradition of the Lords supper. Jesus was speaking to the twelve when he told them to do this in memory of him.
                   Again I could be wrong. That is just the way that I understood what I read.

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                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Don't you mean by your lord? Taint my lord!

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    Hell N0posted 14 years ago

    These parallels are unfounded by real history.  But I haven't studied it very in depth.  So let's allow the enemy of most of these "Christians" set you sraight.
    
    
    
    http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.ph … 751.0.html

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       (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       How can you state emphatically the parallels are unfounded when you haven't studied it? Is that then an emotional response?

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    Hell N0posted 14 years ago

    I haven't read book after book on Greek Mythology.  I have looked into sources on the net and it is more than obvious that the so called Jesus links are fabrications.  They even talk of Horus having been crucified when that type of execution didn't exist back then. There were no three wise men and not even the bible says that there were "three" wise men.  I can go on and on but I submitted a link destroying those apparent similiarities.  By the way, nobody here appears to have looked into any of this either.

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       mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I've been looking into this, Hell No, for about a week...
       
       It's taking me a LONG TIME to get through comparisons of myth and narrative, but there are, indeed, similarities and parallels between the Horus and Jesus narratives, perceived histories, etc...not as many as listed in the opening post at the beginning of the thread...

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    edjieposted 14 years ago

    but JESUS IS LORD and he is a through God.He is the only way and he is the only GOD.GOD is a GOD of all gods

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       Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "but Jesus is the lord..God is a God of all gods?"
       
       Excuse me, Are you suggesting that Jesus is someone like Zeus or Jupiter? Then u must be supporting the existence of multiple gods like paganists?

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       in neural speak, yeah...this is correct. the prefrontal cortex does control the rest of the human body. it is where motivation begins.

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    CMHypnoposted 14 years ago

    Triads of deities are so ubiquitous in the ancient world, that it is laughable to think that the Joseph/Mary/Jesus triad or the God the father/God the son/Holy Spirit are anything more than a new spin on an old story.
    
    The mother/father/son triad is especially common, where the son is sacrificed in some way during the spring and is reborn to replenish the earth.
    
    Usually in a triad each deity would represent one aspect of a whole, so you get life, death, rebirth or maiden, woman and crone, or father, mother and son.
    
    So you have as only a few examples:
    
    Amen, Mut, Khonsu
    Ptah, Sekhmet, Nefertem
    The triple aspect of Hecate
    the Greek Moirae
    Zeus, Leto, Apollo
    Jupiter, Juno, Minerva
    Odin, Vili,Ve
    Shakti, Lakshmi, Saraswati
    
    In this case, there really is nothing new under the sun, and Christianity just lifted a very old religious concept that was already well understood and accepted by the people of the time.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I wrote about this. It is a persistent myth because our brains are divided in three layers that we have long instinctively felt.
       
       
       
       the triad supporting systems are all around us.
       
       moon, earth, sun.
       
       mommy, daddy, child.
       
       id, ego, superego
       
       subconscious, conscious, super-conscious
       
       reptilian brain, mammalian brain, cortex.
       
       dendrite, nueron body, axon
       
       I did write a hub about the nature of the reptilian brain, mammalian brain and the cortex and its connection to myth, particularly gods and goddesses.
       
       The relationship of the reptile(the body/satanic), the mother mammalian (representing balance and choice) and the cortex (the man/the newest-- "the divine child" representing altruism and transcendence) is neural.
       
       it is brain anatomy, so naturally it will come out in our myth. our minds are made of this triad from the neuron all the way up to the actual brain.
       
       the hemispheres are triads too. left, right corpus callosum.
       
       same pattern. that's all we now, so the permutations of myth churn out the same thing. It's always triads of the same qualities. sometimes one is vilified more than the others. i guess it depends on where and who is writing the operating system.
       
       I made a compilation of the triads, and one I particularly found interesting is LETA. she is holding out two twin males and protecting it from a snake. (i also wrote a hub about this and the story of the fall of adam)
       
       the thing is, the reptilian brain hijacks control of the body form the "twins" (the hemispheres) through the mammalian when it is fearful. that's why most of the time the snake is vilified.
       
       at other times it is revered as a symbol of power and healing.
       that's because the reptilian brain is in charge of the body. it is connected to the vertebrae. so peel the rest of the body off and what you have is a snake. there really is a kind of snake inside us. (okay this is already a hub, i better stop but before that)
       
       So Jesus and Horus is the divine child, which is the developing prefrontal cortex, attributed to all of our finer qualities. altruism, harmony, love thy nieghbor...so on and so forth.
       
       our brain is telling us its own struggles to evolve. its a biography.

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          ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          as i was saying, these are themes that mirror the parts and relationships of our neural systems

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I read it Woowoo. Now you are reduced to repeating it over and over.
             
             But - love the way you ignored the points I made in favor of repeating yourself. LOL That is what is called being open to new possibilities. Dear me........

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                ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                i said new, not old.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    IN the case of the myths of the divine child.
    
    They are beautiful myths that sing to us. We like these stories and so we pass them on.
    
    But they should be enjoyed and used to introspect not used for political or economic gain.
    
    Those themes do not belong to that tree.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago

    Aww - There you were asking for new ways of looking at things and all you can do is argue against it with more absolutes. Harry Potter forbid you explore a new possibility.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Laughing at people's beliefs and calling them names is not new possibilities, PC. It's bullying.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No, Woowoo - it is not - it is doing unto others as they asked to be done unto.
          
          Love the way you avoid what I say though - excellent - almost like a true believer. LOLO New possibilities? Don't make me laugh.   Tell me about Mandelbrot and quote some old scripture you got out of a book.

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             ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             It's the attention you want, PC. Now I get it. You don't have a cause. You like negative attention.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Sorry Woowoo - wrong again. I have obviously upset you by suggesting your irrational beliefs are baseless. Good - that was my intention. Now you will have to think about it some. Sorry.
                
                You are not a Mac - at best - you are a Commodore 64, Woowoo.

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                   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Look at me cry over my strawberries...boohoo...old man who likes to heckle was bad to me.
                   
                   don't make yourself out to be anything but a destroyer. I find people in the idea business need to do this sometimes to let off steam because they're constantly being judged by suits...who are traditional and who are most likely church goer moralists.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       oh and they're not new either...their old programs that only feed chaos.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Aww - didn't understand huh? Sorry.

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             ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             i understand that you like and enjoy what you're doing...not for any "higher cause". it's for your entertainment. That's cool too. Whatever gets you off.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Gosh - you do have a low opinion of me. Oh well - people usually see what they want to. Sorry to have suggested a  a few new ways of looking at things. All right- one more go - Is it possible that memes evolve.

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                   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   memes evolve from the same memetic pattern my friend, I just explained it to you.

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                   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   You know mark, this is a discussion of perspectives. You don't have to agree. The point is a discussion was made and its already out there. You can distract people from the discussion but the discussion is still there.
                   
                   Jesus and Horus are recurring themes of myth because they ring true in a relational way. Not in any actual historical way. But as relationships.

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                   Seandollarbillsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   @mark knowles...your name knowles even has a question mark...well am not really the debating kind of guy...but I have one question for u...what has this your CLAIMED SUPPOSED Horus god has ever done for u before in life...?...GOD the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it,the most knowing GOD,the GOD of love and mercy...He has done more than enough for me...if u ask me...just don't creat amusement on the ONE who gives u the air that u breath...think about it..."KNOWLES"

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    You're an old beat up PC who still works at your age when you should be retiring in the junk yard   Just kidding.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    excuse me because some of us need to meet a deadline. It was a good one Mark see ya around PC! You clunker with a lot of viruses.

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    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    only good historical source of Jesus historicity is Quran

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       geez...pun intended.

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          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hi friend ceciliabeltran
          
          There is no pun intended; it is just Truth face to face.
          
          Thanks
          
          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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    Painless Tragedyposted 10 years ago

    The Problem or real big deal about all this stuff is or why it should be MOST important.
    
    What if he's right if God was a Tyrannical Misconception of Man vs Alien?. What if Horus and Jesus was 1 and the same? What if both Marks whether it's the 666 or 777 lead us to the same Hell or Extinction. What if they are Reptilians who want to estabolished doctrines for Humanity to teach them how to be Enslaved and Weak and Powerless and Reliant on THEM. Listen my point is - What if the Angels of God and Satan are the same source from the same "God" Race? What if they are just trying to make us Surrender to Cull/Control the Population. What if the Myths about the Reptilians are REALLY True? We are already seeing the Illuminati pose as Christians and Satanists, Showing or telling us of a Future Invasion, Some of the Propaganda being pushed on us is actually Reptilians or Nephilim Destroying the World. Now listen the Illuminati are writing Hymns about their FUTURE invasion/Apocalypse on Earth. If you look at Religion mainly Catholicism or Christianity under a Fine Comb you well the Jesus is Horus theory more accepted and connects more Dots. The problem is people are scared of the Truth. The Epic of Gilgamesh came BEFORE the Old Testament by at least 1000 if not 1300 years. The Epic of Gilgamesh is around 2000BC. It contains the both the stories of the Garden of Eden and the Great Flood. The Bible is just a Collection of Scrolls I have reason to believe the Stories that Humanity exposed of them in the past was censored or removed from the Holy Book. Enoch another Exciting Tale does however expose EVIL or the Merging of Angels on Earth, having Sexual Intercourse mating with Humanity and DEVOURING the rest. Looks like the Fallen Angels are working together with God and the Devil to me. Which is why Jesus has to be HORUS, The Book of the Dead connection with the Bible more proof EVERYTHING IS NOT WHAT IT SEEMS...I've Always been Devoted to Truth but Agnostic in my belief of the Bible. However I believe in a God/Creator and a High Authority for Good. And Right Now the Earth needs him. Cause they are pushing Predictive Programming of their Return to Earth. We must stop them, boycott them and destroy them when the time comes. May God watch over the human race and fight by our side! Why I defend this? Well, we know the Egyptian Kings were actually Fallen angels Nephilim Hybrids. They was Technologically Advanced far beyond any civilization at the time. That was your FIRST MAJOR CLUE. The Bloodlines still rule England and have made their way to America through the Bush family and Obama's "Akhenaten"

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43. 57

    Painless Tragedyposted 10 years ago

    One more thing, It appears from this new POV of mine that they wish to not Invade with their ships yet until their NWO is complete. I've actually seen them WARP drive by the orion star system. 3 nights ago. I've Blogged about it it was a Gigantic Fan, Light with Aura - Definitely not a Meteor. Okay lets get back to reality. My point I'm trying to make is the Illuminati believe in Transhumanism. They wish not to kill everyone on the planet much like ENOCH here people listen!!! They want to Advanced us into Machines or Software they can CONTROL (MINDCONTROL) they want to breed us into GODS basically at least superior enough to them. That means questing for a way to create Immortality. They actually do tell us through the MEDIA their plans, so far they are becoming Prophecy. They will control us through the UN and Agenda 21. They will corral us into Megacities/Regions and cut off Energy and Water when the time comes through either Stuxnet or lets say a Controlled BLACKOUT and shutdown of the Internet. Resulting in Martial Law, Let's say a False Flag attack on a Pipeline system to Regions. People panic they are locked down in their cities awaiting the ENDGAME Judgement. This is a Future I see and this is what I wish to Expose or we do nothing to inform rather tell people they have no problem EXPOSING themselves. In my lifetime I've come across 3 sightings. I believe 100% they wish harm on our people and they must BE identified as a THREAT to Humanity and be stopped at once! I've been a Conspiracy Theorist for 12 years. I didn't wake up until the 9th year I was a hardcore skeptic especially towards the whole REPTILIAN/Shapeshifting thing.

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    Tom Caiposted 10 years ago

    As a bias thinker like myself, this is my suggestion.
    
    This argument has been discussed over and over through the millennium, there is hardly any end to this and probably wouldn't as long as humans are still alive.
    
    Keep in mind that the purpose of religion is not to gain as many followers as it can(this is not twitter), have the best debaters(nor government), or belittle another's beliefs. Humans want to know everything, I want to know if there is/are God/s and if there is why did he put me here.
    
    I believe the purpose of religion is to answer the question What is the purpose of life? Following that question are numerous questions such as:
    What happens after I die?
    Is God real?
    If God isn't how should I live my life?
    If God is which one is real?
    ...
    & Many other questions such as those listed above.
    
    
    
    
    I would like to suggest to Atheists and religious people on this post to explore and become adventurous in your quest to the Truth. (Truth without axioms)
    
    We only live on Earth for a limited amount of life. Compared to the life of Earth we're almost nothing. Use what you have of your time look pass the box which you hold, whether that's the believe that you believe in or that philosophy you don't want to give up, by going to different religious locations. Change your perspective in which you view this world and see how others would see it. Later ask yourself again. Why do they see it this way? Do I want to reconsider my beliefs?
    
    So often we're blinded by our own ignorance of others' belief because we believe that 'what I believe must be the truth.' Without even the slightest consideration of
    What if I'm wrong?
    
    Evidence and proof are just humans' foundations for any belief system, even if you are non-religious.
    
    There'll be no evidence that's universal. Every evidence is perspective. Our own sense are impaired.
    
    What we see might not be what it really is. Our eyes blur, we can only focus on one subject, our peripheral blurs the rest.
    
    What we listen might not be what it really is.
    How many times have you thought someone said something that wasn't what they said at all?
    
    What we taste might not be what it really is.
    Right after brushing your teeth if you eat an orange it'll taste bad.
    
    What we smell might not be what it really is.
    If you were to squeeze your nose from the nasal bone to the vomer bone you'll began to smell something, that's the smell of your nose, however you never smell it if you haven't done that.
    
    I believe evidence can only be true to you. That means what you find as evidence to the Truth can only be proven by you and you alone. We can only use words and actions to express those ineffable evidences. No matter how you explain it in language alone,or any variety of ways, another wouldn't 'get you' exactly. However we can all see a common picture of what happened and what'll happen if we have that similarity in our beliefs. That's where religion take place.
    
    This is specifically written so that you cannot see what my bias is towards.
    
    I'm sure I made grammar mistakes, correct me if I'm wrong.
    
    I'm only a 16 year old boy, however don't let this change how you perceive this.

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    Musa Mkhizeposted 10 years ago

    You people are hilarious, even if you foam at the mouth in anger or invoke whatever scripture or history book. These are just stories that were written by men to achieve certain objectives.  You believing it won't do a single thing to prove that it really happened.  A 1000 years from now it will all be myth like every other religion. They are just stories people.  Enjoy the stories yes but do so with a healthy pinch of salt.

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       Chris Nealposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       That's okay. I find you pretty funny too.

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    pencilpaperposted 10 years ago

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA

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47. 58

    mishpatposted 9 years ago

    Can't understand why this site is still being debated.  The whole thing was a farce presented by a well known atheist "comedian" in (I believe) 2008.  But the "I'll believe anything bad about God" group has propagated it to the point of "fact."  Common folks, do your homework once in a while.

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    spermatozoalucifeposted 9 years ago

    Want to know the truth read my hub page ! " I Am the Resurrection And the Life ". The Germ Cell of God Open the gates of Heaven for all of Us .

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    Karl Dehmposted 9 years ago

    Christianity since its acceptance as the state religion of Rome over 1700 years ago, has been responsible for the murder of millions of men, women and children, the suppression of minority groups and thought and other crimes against humanity throughout this period.
    How can such a force of evil be considered good! Even Hitler, Stalin and other notorious criminal dictators did some good, but in comparison to the atrocities committed in the name of god.
    The bible and what is written in it, was put together by people to control the ignorant masses.
    Christianity was turned in the early centuries into a literalists
    copy of a resplendent spiritual forerunner. There is nothing the Jesus of the gospel either said or did-from the Sermon on the Mount to the miracles, from his flight as an infant from Herod to the resurrection itself-that cannot be shown to have originated thousands of years before, in Egyptian Mystery rites and other sacred liturgies such as the the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In simple terms the bible is a total plagiarism of the Sumerian and Egyptian mythologies. 
    
    Not only did the early Christians take over almost completely the myths and teachings of their Egyptian masters, but they did everything in their power, through forgery and other kinds of frauds, book burning, character assassination and murder itself, to destroy the crucial evidence of what happened. The Christian story itself which began as a kind of spiritual drama, together with the sayings based upon the Egyptian material, was turned into a form of history in which Christ of the myth became a flesh-and-blood person identified with Jesus of Nazareth.

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       frentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       One must not forget to mention also that over 270 million persons fell to the sword during the forced conversions to Islam.
       The Jewish Torah, the Christian Bibles and gospels form the back bone of  Islam.
       Myths, Pagan practices, Greek stories  Hinduism and  Zoroastrianism contributed significantly to the Koran.

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    awareposted 8 years ago

    The sun not the son

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