Can another person decide who is and is not a Christian?

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48
Ericdierkerposted 7 years ago
Can another person decide who is and is not a Christian?

I will just leave it at that. I am really interested about views on this. Thank you if you would write a note.
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Terrielynn1posted 7 years ago
Only god can judge others. But reading the bible with an open mind helps you to decide the basic guide lines for your life. His word teaches us how to live and what is required of us in order to be inline with his ways. It starts with faith and prayer. Then reading his words moves us to action in our own lives. He gives a mind and free will to make our choices. I can't think of individual scripture right now, there are so many.. but being in line with his directions and will is very important. From all the reading I have done, we will be moved to grow and change as we develop a love for god, his son and his word. This should move us to show our love in our deeds and daily life. One scripture is, faith without works is dead. Even though it begins with having faith, it doesn't end there.
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1. 87
  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, I don't listen to man. Read what I wrote again. Using scripture to hurt others isn't what god said. That's not our place. But by living by what we believe and say shows others the power god can have in our lives. It's easier to reach people a
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2. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes u do IF u think GOD "hates" judgment! Too many Scriptures say otherwise!
  "Man" (Satan) used imperative sentence" (Matt7:1) to keep MOST "ignorant!" 20+ Scriptures say JUDGE vs the one u guys refer to!
  "Hurt?" Oh yeah (Heb4:12)!
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Embracing ONE command is unbalanced & a distorted. It is why you get so much heat back, N - not because you are delivering a message that we don't like. God is SOUL, pure positive energy JUST like we are. The HEART is his domain NOT your's.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you don't believe WORD is GOD SPEAKING(Jn1:1), not *Norine!"
  Who "embraced one Scripture" (Matt7:1) re: judgment but TWISTED believers?
  I have Scripture (GOD) to back me up not "science!"
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5. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie this is a great statement. It made me think that a 14 year old's Christianity is different from a 60 year old's. That is just a natural fact. So variances are absolute. Thomas or Peter? The two Mary. . And ultimately my wife and I. Makes you t
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric "Faith [increase thereof] comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God!" READ Rm10:14-21! "The just shall live by faith"(Heb10:38)not "science" MF! "From faith to faith"(1:17) depending on"STUDY"which inc us from youth to adult! Not 1's age
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  EEEEEKK!!! It's the ghost of Noreen still tormenting us!! Help!! Please delete delete delete!! Save Us !! ! ! ! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, you missed an 'N' conversation, Eric - but maybe leaving her in here lets people know what we're talking about surrounding her ha! I have always had the same response to this rant of hers & she can't answer: what did C's do B4 bible to stud
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I have been told by her that NW is no longer with Hubpages so I think it only fair to discuss her in private rather than here.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eli I think you have spoken truth concerning Norine , true she had some problems here. But she did not ignore people here .There was some postive things about her.
  Its better to say the good things about people then to tear them down or throw stones
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always exploringposted 7 years ago
Hi Eric, I do not believe anyone has the right to judge another's Christianity. Only God can do that. Remember Jesus condemned the GOOD people for being judgmental? Great question!
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1. 76
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Do the words 'plank out of your own eye' ring a bell? Judgment without LOVE is not how God judges. There is more to our words & actions beyond the saying & doing of them. God judges intentions as much as anything.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ruby, it is always good to here from you. Yes he did. To avoid being judgmental seems to be a full time job. I just thought about how funny it would be if I judged myself Non-judgmental. But I can try.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Catherine I came back to look at this comment. It made me think that we can actually relinquish our mind to Love. In the area of judging I think we can. Not judging driving stuff but judging character. My mind has nothing to do judging my wife.
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PhoenixVposted 7 years ago
Probably not too many Christians Mr. Dierker in the strict sense. A follower of Christ would do all they can to feed the poor or help others. Kind of narrows it down to Mother Theresa types on that alone. Now if they see the Kingdom, well thats up to head honchos. I dont think a true Christian would want to evaluate another believer but try to encourage them to do better without judging them. Noone walks in our shoes but ourselves. Different lives and different expectations. Everyone has gifts and things to offer and it may be hard to see at first.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I thought this was a pretty good answer. Neat how we get the righteous, judgmental rantings of Norine to make sure that even Christians are good & judged. Its so harmful & NOT Jesus' main message to embrace that 1 so wholeheartedly.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Phoenix, what a positive point of view that is wholeheartedly supported by scripture. You made me think of the brash curt fellow who is obnoxious. I there I am judging him. But maybe he does good. While I act all nice but do no good. Thank for giving
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  PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Ms Misfit and Mr Dierker and Norine for the responses.
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4. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe, we should think on this more. That uplifting all fuzzy feeling deal sounds hokey pokey, but on a selfish level I feel real good encouraging people. Especially children. Maybe it is like a good nutrition plan -as much about what you do not eat
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric...Did U remove Noreen the nuisance or did HP? We can only hope it was HP and she has been BANNED completely. She is very damaging!
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Paula, I did the deleting at first. And HP followed suit. Our friend just said enough is enough. She would have made a great "unsub" for Criminal Minds.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I have noticed there are a few 'hardcore' peeps not here - the others were a couple of Trump's alt-right militants kind of like Norine, ha! We can still have 'disagreeing' discussions without those kind of peeps, tho they keep us on our toes.
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Aime Fposted 7 years ago
People can only decide if another person is Christian according to *their* standards. It's all very subjective. If someone identifies as a Christian I certainly won't question their faith, though I may question their behaviour according to what I've always understood to be "Christian-like."

But ultimately I know Christians who support gay marriage and I know Christians who vehemently oppose it. I know Christians who are extremely vocal about opposing abortion and I know Christians who keep out of it. Everyone has their own ideas and their own standards, I think as long as you meet the ones you've set for yourself that's all you need to worry about.
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Not everyone interprets things the same way.
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  firstcookbookladyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We weren't commanded to Listen to Norine, either.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are not the only one God speaks through; and if you were, I seriously doubt that he would make HP the platform for imperative messages to the world. We will know by spiritual fruits & again - yours are rotten & stink, Norine.
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4. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What if no one insisted that their way was the only right way? Could we possibly have a war? Of course we must stand on certain truths and principles, but....
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5. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Amie, I have been thinking on your comment. "if you meet the ones...." And it occurred to me that if one is really evaluating their own ideas and setting standards for themselves with any type of prayer then it will be good. Day to day, Hour to hour
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Aime, I just keep coming back to your notion of reaching our own standards. I think as "artists - writers" we must set our standard to share our gift - and if we do, that is cool.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, This is my final visit to these forums/questions until Norine Williams is removed from HP permanently. I will not be a part of this ridiculous behavior. HP has a responsibility here. I'm calling on them to do something immediately.
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, what's foolish is to think that everyone reaches the same understanding as you do. People are so different, they see things differently depending on experience and circumstance.
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Chris...THANK YOU!! You have echoed my own sentiments. No one wants to even join a discussion she tries to dominate! HP should have done something about her LONG ago!! Such lunacy!!
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  check her profile page
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I DID check it last night when I saw that all her blabber was deleted. I figured Eric wouldn't have deleted it. She deserved banning LONG ago! A few more Trolls & we're good!! If she sneaks back, we'll KNOW!
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If we use discretion in reporting this kind of behavior, I think HP staff will continue to help us take back these venues. The forums/question areas should be incubators for hub ideas. That is how these rooms relate to HP as a writing/writer's site.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Paula, I confess to doing all that deleting. Wow what a pain. We actually had the conversation before. She would purposefully (her admission) post during my sleeping hours. Can you hear my enormous sigh of relief?
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  Tusitala Tomposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I like Neale Donald Walsch;s reference to a bumper sticker. " God - Save me from your followers." I think a lot of people will understand that one.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I had to report her from my hub a few weeks ago, she simply will not stop harassing me in comments & I got sick of deleting them. I appreciate free speech, but that kind of judgemental & hateful divisiveness is more harmful than we realize.
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Most of us DO, in fact realize how BAD ppl like Nor can B.The 2nd prt 2 that is that HP repeatedly advises US to IGNORE these types DELETE THEM EVERY TIME Do NOT engage Do NOT feed trolls! Ever! Eventually they c they're invisible & Go away!
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well I was starting to get the impression that she wasn't ever going to go away - I must have deleted over 30 comments from her & I left some 1st ones up just to have 'her view' up there. Some people have perfected the art of persistence, ha!
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, your Hub has a new format I guess. I get orange highlights and am not directed to the place of the last comment. So if someone is addressing me, I'm unable to respond.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane it is a mess. There is no way to track comments anymore. I hope they fix that. I wrote a question on it and it seems that it is just broke.
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  RAKU ICHIJOposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thats true Aime,people can only decide if another person is Christian according to their standards. But I think we should not do that.
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tsmogposted 7 years ago
Eric, I have thought long and hard about this question, even though my answer is succinct. BTW . . . this is all IMHO! Why it was a journey I am still deciding if to share or not. Anyway . . . The answer is ‘yes’ anyone can decide if one is a Christian or not as we all have Free Will.

However, that is an opinion in the eyes of God. That is no matter, because if one is a Christian or not comes down to the New Covenant and one’s own heart. And, then there is the promise of the Holy Spirit to guide the journey. That said, I cannot see into the heart of a person. Nor, can I know the actual work of the Holy Spirit with and within a person’s life.

From there it was and is a journey for me with that guidance . . . as it is with others.
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1. 86
  tsmogposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for the comment Norine. However, I take umbrage with being rebuked. You do not know if I read/study the Word. Enough said.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There was no new 'word' written down for Jesus or his followers to study for centuries; and EVERY spiritual thing was supposedly FINISHED with Jesus' resurrection. God doesn't need 'tests', tricks nor Norine to accomplish his Kingdom.
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Kathleen Cochranposted 7 years ago
Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
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1. 76
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There's that fruit verse I keep taking about for you, Norine. What do your 'fruits' bear in places like this? Did Jesus make peeps fishers of men or JUDGES of them? You are judged every time you judge: that's Y U get REBUKES in return.
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2. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Kathleen what two great verses. There seems to be three fruits. Reverence to God. Giving love to another. And getting something of value done. Boy, if I hit all three at once I am a super star! Thank you for your clarity.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Kathleen the way you state this is kind of like a freezing cold glass of water to the face. It is the contrast that bolts us awake. 40 years ago I told a gal that her fruit was looking really good today. We got married after she slapped me. I feel mo
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Misfit Chickposted 7 years ago

Humans are the only people concerned about whether or not someone is a Christian - God certainly doesn't care. He is the foundation of all religions, cultures & even political parties, etc. God delights in the diversity of ALL of his creation. There is nowhere you can go that God is not present.

God is pure positive energy: the same stuff our soul is made out of. It is our battery, our lifeforce - and we could not even breathe without it, that's how much a part of each person it is.

We are each a literal expression of God in the body & personality of 'me'. We are eternal as he is; and as deeply loved by our Source as we instinctively feel we are. God is our baseline, keeping us eternally untouched by whatever ugly things we are learning & going through in this life.

Religions are meant to draw people to God & the truth about themselves - nothing more. They are tools of awareness or weapons of destruction, depending on how humans utilize them.

It is a common practice for Christians to judge each other on the degree of just 'how good' of a Christian other people are. The good ones are praised; while the bad ones are judged. But, only God can fully-experience the heart; so only he can judge it.

Also, God's judgement isn't like our judgments. His is always PERFECT based on 'all that we are' - not just the actual word or deed that was done. Both motivations & intentions mean a lot.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The bible is not the word of God. The WORD is SPIRIT. The bible did not always exist & it will not always exist. It will turn to dust with the rest of the relics of this civilization someday. God doesn't need a book to speak thru or to his own.
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2. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Much food for thought and contemplation Catherine. I do believe people should read your Christians & ex-Christian article. Interesting to note we probably have two sources of judgment - the head and the heart. Perhaps influence is not creation.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Its not full of garbage, KC. I used to be you & Norine arguing harmful dogma. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Eric, influence isn't creation - we can co-create with it tho. We are dual beings & LoA responds to both 'as one'
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Catherine, I seem to see God as a father to me. And so I do not command of my children but rather I teach, love and influence. Certainly God commands but He knows darn well we can only try to follow perfectly, therefor He influences after creation.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think we're talking about 2 different things, I'm not understanding what you're getting at. Jesus used his 'Power of Influence' to touch the people around him. We can sort of 'pull each other up' (or down) with it. We create thru beliefs.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  By your comment I think you do understand me. God touches my heart. I view it kindly and as a great favor. We both are clearly influenced by God.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes all R touched by 'God' bcuz it is the part of us that lives & breathes, the most natural part of our existence. Its profound, but it is supposed to be 'normal' to us. We've been told its exclusive. We're direct offspring in physical bodies.
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  always exploringposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  misfit Chick, I love your comment, and it is so true.
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9. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I really like this thread of discussion. If we all love to some degree and God is love, then He is in all of us. Yes I like "co-created". That which is of God is alpha and omega. It could have no beginning just like God. We are all gods??
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eli people have some kind a way lost what value of this spiritual treasure .
  To just recap. Its more then money, Diamons , gold,
  Its a desire that many already feel when they get up each morning .
  ' Living' is not control or granted by man .
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T,
  If that was to me I don't quite grasp your meaning.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we are 'gods in the flesh' as Jesus was. "Is it not written in your law I said YOU are gods?" More details in my spotlight hub. We're just like him & that was the thing Roman leaders either didn't understand or felt a need to cover up.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Catherine I see that you have left several comments but I cannot find them. Please excuse me.
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KingdomComeposted 7 years ago
Jesus Christ never said to go out a make so called "Christians". He said in Matthew 28: 19 (NKJV) 19 Go, therefore and make DISCIPLES of all the nations..............

Not : Go therefore an make Christians.

I'm not a Christian, I'm a disciple of Christ.

It seem very few understand the big difference.
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1. 76
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Its strange how C's always try to distinguish themselves from each other - ie. they aren't 'real' Christians (or disciple of C) but *I* am. When I lost my religion, they insisted I wasn't saved to begin with. The answer determines judgement.
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Misfit Chick- what part of Matthew 28:19 do you not understand.
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3. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Kingdom Come. What part of that verse do you understand it to mean as I do? You are not the kingdom come to me. Please respect others and fill that heart with a desire to share and not judge and demand.
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  Ann810posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, Disciples of Christ is a better way to explain "followers of Christ." It shouldn't be based on a religion, but having a true relationship with Christ through spirituality.
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5. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This is a really nice statement. I like it.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
  Wrong thought
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DH Reviewsposted 7 years ago
No they cannot decide your faith for you because it is between you and God, if you believe in God, and not between you and anyone else.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty straight forward.
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The Indexerposted 7 years ago
There are certainly plenty of people who are convinced that they have all the answers, and if you don't agree with them 100% then you are no Christian!

The problem with these people is that they are highly selective in the Biblical texts that they cite to back up their case - other cases that support completely different points of view could be made with equal justification by citing other texts yanked kicking and screaming out of their context.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  John it does seem that many think it is their way or the highway. I think it would be sad to stop growing in faith. How can they be absolutely right at 40 and hold exactly the same position at 60?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  John that's why GOD told us to "use HIS WORD" to "CORRECT" others (II Tim3:16)! HE didn't say RESPECT!
  Another "commandment" (IJn2:3-5) given by GOD that MOST "IGNORE" yet believe they're "in Him!" HA!
  Eric Preaching to yourself (re: "40 vs 60")?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine you just ruin - no not God ruins - so many hubs and Questions by how you do this. I have not seen one person you have brought to Jesus. Please stop doing this. People see your post and just leave the discussion. Please stop
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric..1 person she has led 2 Christ? LOL! Quite the contrary! She chases them FROM, appalls people, disgusts & annoys them. She's hater & phony!.She condemns, insults & destroys. She's looney! ALL know it!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane apeaks truth of what happened . I can share this example.
  You have a car with a battery and alternator. If alternator breaks
  The car will soley rely on its battery power. And the battery life limited in keeping the car running.
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Carolyn M Fieldsposted 7 years ago
I thought that the answer was simple, until I started to read some of the answers. I will start with my answer, and then address some of the other commentaries.

Can another person decide who is and is not a Christian?
Answer: No.

Explanation: Until scientists perfect a method to read another person's mind, it simply is not possible to know what is in somebody else's heart and mind. We can look at their behavior, but that by itself does not indicate if someone is Christian or not. Being a Christian is a matter of faith, which goes well beyond daily life.

Many of the comments discuss "behavior," and lifestyle. Again, this is not a true indication of whether or not a person is a Christian. It is superficial. I can visibly pray every day, and not be a Christian. I can pray silently, without any outward manifestation, and be very devout.

That's my two cents.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What a very common cents answer. Thank you for sharing it.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  When I was still a Christian, I heard in a sermon once that we will be surprised to find out how many people actually make it into heaven, and how many don't. We just can't know (or judge) each other for the reason you just said. Bravo!
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Carolyn, I can appreciate what you have said. In my comment, I simply took the words of the Bible and gave that viewpoint. Jesus did say that behavior is a way of determining another person's true faith. But, I am on the outside of Christianity looki
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine - I will leave this comment. It is so horrible that we can learn from it. But I will delete a follow up from you.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, in my judgement, you are no Christian.
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And it leaves U a ranting lunatic in need of a psyche ward in a straight jacket. Noreen, UR rude, hateful, ignorant & satanic. Christ is ashamed of U! U chase people away from Him. STOP UR CRAP! ALL R sick of U!!
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  As I read the comments, I see two interpretations to the original question. Some interpret it to mean "Is one person ABLE to tell if another person is a Christian. Others interpret it to mean SHOULD one person declare another person's Christian exper
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Chris indeed. When I saw this at first I said - oops bad question and then I noticed it worked well to see where an answer was coming from. Both concepts interest me.
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  Rock_njposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There is an objective way of measuring who is a Christian, that being the Bible. It's clear what a Christian should do to follow Jesus' teachings. 10 Commandments are clear too.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, yes, I agree. Sometimes a vague question can give people more freedom to think about the topic.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Like my sermons, this is where I seem to be most effective and that makes me happy because it is my artistic contribution not a dictate. You inspire me. We will hike together before to long.
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  Tina Bishopposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  spirit discerns spirit. A Christian can decide if another person is a Christian for they share the same Spirit; the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry but discernment is a particular gift that not all have. Christian spirit within you does not immediately mean the gift of discernment. Do you have such a gift?
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  LoliHeyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Things are going to be real boring now that Norine is gone. I liked her and I'm not afraid to admit it!
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, totally. I know when I'm bored the first thing I want is for someone to start yelling scripture at me! Always super fun.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I took chemo for many months, it sucked. I was a bit down afterwards. My caretaker sister lit up a joint and said "yeah I am kind of sad you do not need me anymore" I miss chemo and I miss NW. I have fifty emails from her. But I will get over it ;-)
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  LoliHeyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so pissed that she's gone! I can't ever get in touch with her again. We needed her, believe it or not.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Lolita -- email me through HP and I will give you her email address, I am sure she would love to hear from you. Put I will email her first to get permission. It is good for her to have you as a friend.
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  Tusitala Tomposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you can also be a Buddhist, a Zoroastrian, Jewish, a Moslem, a Shintoist, and still have all the so-called qualities and virtues a person of the Christian Faith would deem one of their own as being 'a Christian.'
  So Carolyn's answer stands.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Lolita, I wrestled with the idea of losing Norine. Every good story needs tension. But she disrupted every question/thread. Original questions were ignored. This question is now blossoming as a result of her absence.
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Loli...NO idea where UR coming from!! If U "needed" her, U must B the most bored person in the world. She was a damned psycho & U know it! Annoying, rude, obtrusive & insulting. Ranting is disgusting & useless. She should B institutionali
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Tom your point is correct. Atheists fit right in there. Being good and loving is certainly not owned exclusively by Christians. And the flip side is true also.
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  MELANIECLOPEZposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know to be honest I feel guilty if I say I'm a Christian. Magnifying glasses and believe me labels are killing me right now. I feel like my interpretation is very different. So I believe in Father Son Holy Spirit. The Mohe-coins still alive.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I can see your point. I am always a bit skeptical of those proclaiming their perfectness in Christ.
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, your last statement might be the answer to most of your questions. There is no one who is perfect in Christ. We all fall short and we are human. The point is to do better when we know better. To keep on and do our best. Do all things out oflove
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie, I cannot think of a time when I acted less than Christian when I slowed down and acted in a loving fashion. Everything we have discussed here boils us down to -- did we act in love and are we judging in love.? Maybe in that way we my judge.
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  CMF, I say "YES" because Matthew 8:20-22; 19:29; 28:19-20 & John 3:8 makes Christians, followers of christ per Acts 11:26, to be doing what the gospels say Yeshua the messiah did while he ministered.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric if you had read all your comments you would have notice it was s reply to another comment.
  But you just read my reply out of context the reason it makes no sense. Or you just read it at a later time when it was mixed with others. Sorry you miss
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  Gyanendra Mocktanposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes outward manifestation can not give exact picture of a person what he/she has inside.
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  manatita44posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You're not alone, Lolita. She was full of passion and belief. I have to agree that she has said some tough things, but she didn't show much guile. I think she had much decency in her own kind of way.
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Luke Holmposted 7 years ago
Can you tell who lives inside a house based off the neighborhood and front yard?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. But I may know more about them by this than by the words out of their mouth. Good to ponder this.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I actually took this to heart Luke. I live outside of a city. You can do what you want in your front yard. Our drought helps us discern a bit about a home. Maybe we can tell something of what they "do" but not much about who they are.
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm Luke....Just a moment pls. This calls 4 a kinds-sorta-maybe-Yes. We can't tell names of the residents by the yard, but we can tell if: they have kids, what cars they drive, if they like flowers, own a lawnmower, hate sunlight, wash windows......
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I change my appearance and my yards appearance for sure. Fancy tie? No shoes? Roses trimmed? Shoes outside like Asians? I think this short sweet answer is really meaningful, thank you
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cam8510posted 7 years ago
Eric, Your question leaves me befuddled......haha, yes, it's a word. The question leaves me "bewildered, disoriented, fazed, perplexed, dazed, dizzy, stupefied, groggy, muzzy, foggy, fuddled, fuzzy, dopey, woozy, befogged, mixed up." (Dictionary for befuddled).

The reason I feel this way is that the Bible is so clear on this subject in a way that makes me very uncomfortable in today's world. Just being honest. The verses, "...by their fruits you will know them." (Matthew 7:15) and "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples." (John 15:8) make it clear that one Christian can judge whether or not another person is a Christian.

That ability, or even biblical responsibility, is the basis for Christian evangelism and missions in the world. It seems to me that it is also the source of divisions and wars. That is why I am befuddled, not by your question, Eric, but by the Bible on this particular point.

Bring on the Troll......
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy to say that I have had my Troll Vaccine and no longer have a reaction nor will I ever communicate directly with a troll again here on HP.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Chris, your inoculation seems to work just fine. (just for certainty - Matt -7:16) Go ahead and call me dumbstruck and loopy cuz I see just what you point out. I am not at all sure that I am qualified to call out good and bad fruit. Some grapes are g
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, I see where I missed the next verse number. Thanks. I am more at peace coming to the forums and Questions now that I've decided not to try to win against Trolls. Actually, what I am doing is winning. They don't get the satisfaction of ruining a
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There's those words "my disciples"t Hummm........... Not "my Christians" Thanks cam8510
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KingdomCome, I actually do see a reason for the distinction between disciples of Christ and Christian. Christian, to some, means American. A distinction between a truly committed person and nominal believer is a helpful thing.
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  cam8510- nationality has nothing to do someone be "called" a christian or not.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC, I totally agree. My previous comment only meant that the word Christian as been watered down.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Wow KC and Chris that is a really interesting consideration. I think we do throw the word around without much thought as to the context in which it is used. It seems we ask "what kind of a Christian is he?"
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  cam8510 Understand your point, My only point here is Jesus never used the word christians to describe His followers. But they call themselves christians and not desiciples. Why?
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC, Now I get your meaning. Totally agree. Somewhere along the line followers of Christ decided to turn the tables and try to make something positive out of a negative name. Yes, Jesus did focus on the word disciple. It's a good thing to point out.
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  cam8510- When the word christian was first used to describe a person in a negative way they embrace it. But when Christ used desiciple to describe His followers, no "christian" seems to care. Why?
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC, Disciple, in the Greek form goes back to nearly 500BC. In Jesus' day, disciple was in common use. I think His followers liked the idea of a new, distinctive name.
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  cam8510- The word ecclesia is found in greek text as far back as 600 BC and some how it's suppose to mean church today. Which the church didn't exist in 600 BC. My point is it doesn't mather how far back the word desiciple goes. It the word Christ us
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC, I'm simply giving my opinion about why the early followers of Jesus chose the word Christian over the term disciple of Christ. Disciple was, to them, an outdated word. They went for the up to date, flashy name, Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is it wrong to point out that we have had some hard time with the term disciples? Jones, Wako, Ruby Ridge, those space ship folks out here is SoCal - don't they even call those Westboro folk by that term?
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, that is a good thing to point out. I would caution against giving up ground too easily in these things. Otherwise, believers are constantly retreating. I'd hold the ground and clarify the definition in biblical terms. It is also a slight proble
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  cam8510- It was Jessus Christ who used desiciples to describe His followers. If He said it, THAT settles it.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC you must know that He did not use that word. So break it down as to what language of the time translated that notion. Are you talking Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Aramaic. Somewhere you have to give a translation notion. I think all four are different.
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric -don't play games with me. You know exactly what I'm talking about and what I mean. IN ENGLISH IT DESICIPLE. You want to use the Greek or Latin word for DESICIPLE then go for it.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Whose perspective gets to determine good fruit from bad? One person's irritating troll is another's blessing, LoL! It seems KC is trying to make the word disciple to be a holy thing - its just a word. Something to argue about, tho.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Apologies if it took two comments to make my idea understood KC. My desire was to make clear that a word is not important. The concept of more than a follower, and yet not an equal. A learner within the global of love. What you are talking about is a
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  KingdomComeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric- You said a WORD is not important. So tell me then, Eric. Which word in the bible is not important?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC that worries me for I do not like anything called Nicea. And I do not trust the differences between KJV, Latin Vulgate and more.
  Catherine I do believe that we are chastened not to accept "A" version or concept of belief. To each it is revealed an
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KC, I checked the KJV. The words disciple and disciples attributed to Jesus 14 times. That includes parallel passages, so the count is easily under ten. I'm not saying it isn't his preferred term, but He didn't use it often. At least it isn't record
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well now, where were we?
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Chris....You're our HERO!
  Norine WilliamsJoined 2 years ago. Last activity 5 hours ago.
  This user has been banned from HubPages! ! ! ! Hallelujah!
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Matt at the HP office responded very quickly when I told him what had been going on here. It is really bittersweet to me. We tried to reason with her, but that yielded nothing. I hope this is a lesson to everyone who attempts to troll these venues on
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  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And the lesson 2B learned is that there is no "reasoning" w/ those who have stepped over into the Twilight Zone. She is certified, Period The End. Thank you again, Chris.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate Eric and others who ask the questions targeted by these people. They have been patient and have tried to manage the conversations without deleting comments. But I think our patience has run out.
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for you answer. This thread really has me thinking. I don't think I will refer to myself as a Christian anymore. Not that I really did anyway. But now I see this term differently. I believe in Christ, but not the way some self proclaimed do
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie (I just love that spelling) Isn't it cool to use our God given brain to evaluate the language we use to define our faith. I really dig Christ. Christ fills our home with joy. I am starting to think of Quakers. "Friends". Adult Sunday School!!
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Response: Y Christians Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. So for a full year they met together with the church and taught large numbers of people. The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We just take for granted that our use of scripture is right for me and also for you. I think here we have seen such "lovely" comments that we know that others know their scripture. I and we should respect that.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, not everyone knows Scripture. Some don't want to know. If everyone knew the same thing, there would be no need for the question. I assumed the person who asked why Jesus didn't call His followers Christians wanted to know.
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Donna Weltyposted 7 years ago
I grew up in a baptist household,I went to a baptist church.Every Wednesday we had bible study, I got asked not to come back because a friend of mine had been dating a guy known for doing drugs. The Bible teacher tried to explain that people may think because she's dating him that she also was doing dope. I'm usually quiet in any group session but this I could not let go. I raised my hand and asked if it was true that Jesus when on earth hung out with prostitutes, drunks, lepers, my opinion on this is simple. Just because someone does something doesn't always mean that you are, my friend had also gotten the young man to come to church on 3 occasions, to me it looked as if she was doing something right not bad. I don't judge others, I can't. I know good christian folk like to label a person, the dope head who, even though he was clean a year, still couldn't get a job because of his label. If people would stop saying who's a christian and who isn't and learn to love each other. Take the time to listen,everyone has a story, treat others as they want to be treated. My view, God is in all of us, we all bleed red, we all have pain.So no another person cannot tell or say who is or isn't a christian. God told Moses's his name was I am that, I am, he didn't get it at first, a psychologist didn't get it either, his colleagues sent him out on the streets of New York and told him. Every person you look at, rich, poor, drunk, homeless look at them and say I am That, I am. He got it on his 3rd try, I am That, I am. Everyone you see, say this and you'll see a whole new world. He is in all of us, rich, poor, dopehead, drunk, homeless , in all of us. Wouldn't the world be alittle more tolerable if people got this concept.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I missed this earlier. As the Methodists say "even a Baptist could be a Christian" (yes that is a joke because Baptists are far more strict)
  I think your overall message is very good and sound. Thank you
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Anthony Blakeposted 7 years ago
The United States was founded as a Secular Democracy - plain and simple no matter that any pulpit pounder tries to convince you of being otherwise. Now what bothers the Pulpit Pounder types because their very existence is dependent upon The State as the true Master they serve (Collective Guilt). I was raised in a highly schizophrenic Christian family. My Dad's people were self described "Holy Rollers" that are now generally lumped in a group we often refer to as Christian Fundamentalist. My Mom's folks were German Lutherans along with its classic anti-Catholicism. I, growing up in a rural area during the 1950s, had an innate knowledge of reincarnation. Even during my confirmation my pastor refused to answer my questions about reincarnation and attempted to label it as ungodly and deranged. Of course I knew it was not and also that, because of my only Jewish classmate, knew that it was a part of Judaism - supposedly the foundational religion of Christianity. If one looks at the historical notes of the Council Of Nicea one can readily recognize just how contrived Christianity actually is (and by extension any and all other "man made" religions). Without the reincarnation factor the dissonance caused in my young mind as a result of the often contradicting expressions of Christianity among the congregations I attended on either side of the family while initially very disconcerting eventually proved liberating when I rejected all made made religions. I came to realize that founding any religion upon the schizophrenic mutterings, mumblings of religious hucksters only impedes one's relationship with whatever the Divine is.

I am NOT an Atheist but to recognize religion for what it is can only be blasphemy if in fact any of our thousands of man made religions were actually the creation of a god - any god! None have ever been and none will ever be. Various "Holy Books" have plagued humanity since we first learned to write and if they could have been supported by solid oral traditions they would have been kept as foundational facts.

So the real question is not who should decide who is a Christian but why, in a Secular Democracy, should it even be a relevant question? I grant anyone their rights to religious beliefs with the most essential proviso to a Democratic Society: Religion stays in the Home and Church and NOT The Public Square. That is what the Founders intended as long suffering victims of a State Religion!
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I found that very interesting. You did great stitching in your own experience with very intelligent observations. I do not think that it matters much here but it might. We simply are not a Secular Democracy. At the very least we are a constitutional
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This response is similar to my experience. When you listen to a sermon that directly contradicts what your internal instincts & logic tells you - its frustrating, to say the least. The US was meant to be 'secular', not based on ANY 1 religion.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  YOUR 'word' is a book of pages collected & manipulated by cruel pagan's in power to unite Roman masses. The actual 'Word of God' is SPIRIT & cannot be contained within those pages. Your rude judgments mean absolutely NOTHING, Norine.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Catherine I have been a bartender and owned for a bit a steakhouse with a great bar. For the benefit of all you have to know when to cut someone off and take their keys and call a taxi or wife. Norine is drunk with her perceived power over all discus
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Its strange how he does all those things for you & me & others - EXTREME diversity & PROFOUND love that you obviously cannot comprehend is what God's spirit communicates. Everything else is just YOU experiencing DOGMA in your brainwashed
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed my comment was cut short. We are at the most comprehensive a "constitutional federal republic democracy". There simply is no directive in our governing docs that says we must be secular. Proscribes religion but does not support secular.
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  faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The U S of A was not founded as a secular nation/country but as a constitutional democracy. And if one really reads and appraises the constitution one would Know that The U S of A was founded on "GOD GIVEN RIGHTS". This dissertation interesting.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  John, please correct me if I am wrong on this. I think we agree spirituality and religion are different things. Overlap but different.
  I think what you are speaking of is spiritual -- not religious. What do you think?
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I believe the question is a spiritual question. Our spirits will live forever regardless of earthly politics. Where will we spend eternity?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  My young son and I discussed during some shooting baskets last night. We agree that souls are not born and do not die. That our desire and effort to follow the Bible are our best ways for that soul to be with God forever. Perfection? No, but try.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We can't be perfect and God knew it. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16. We we ask forgiveness He forgives every time.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I am with you Dianne but I always feel ill at ease when someone quotes a verse from the Bible and tells another how it applies to them. Certainly if in solace it is good, but in reproach kind of iffy.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The way Christians live is the best representation of Christ. Often professing Christians don't display God's love and compasstion. That causes others to not want to be Christians. Point a finger, 4 point back at you.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane, I love that phrase. My wife has this great propensity to accept no achievement. She just does not believe in personal success. She is "successful". But for her and by extension our home does not claim credit. All glory goes to God. OK.
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Steven Nicholsonposted 7 years ago
Two things to being a Christian 1. LOVE THE LORD, 2. Love and treat your neighbor as you would like to treated. Many true believers can sense another Christian and feel fellowship, but there is no way you can see their heart.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Great Steven! That really resonates. A fun one: My brother read about treating other as you would like -- he bought my mom a baseball glove for mother's day. Perhaps being literal is not so good '-)
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eli we did not create the idea of our own existing. And as it is known in science it takes 1 in 4 trillion to beat the others possibily.
  That certainly makes each person a rare treasure.
  And a treasure to keep living is the beauty of its value.
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shanmarieposted 7 years ago
I answered this earlier, but it didn't post before my phone died. So I will say what I said, but someone else might've said it already. Haven't read any responses yet. . .

Anyone CAN say whether someone is a Christian or not, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. You can label someone in general terms or say a knowledge that someone is not Christian based off of other religious views they claim. But if someone has not otherwise stated a non-belief. . .Although we can have an idea of the heart of some else through observance, how often do we truly know the heart of those we choose to judge? If a relationship with Christ is your definition of a Christian, you can never be sure of what another person thinks or feels in their heart. And if everyone is a sinner, well, you get the point, I trust.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  A peaceful easy feeling knowing I do not need to judge. I wonder why some people act as they do. There but for the grace of God go I, or went I!
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I now agree with "went I."
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crankaliciousposted 7 years ago
Generally, Christians follow the bible, correct? So if a person claiming to be a Christian can be shown not to be following the direction of the bible, that person's Christianity should certainly come into question. If I claim to be a Christian but don't follow it's guidelines, do I still qualify?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well if a baseball player is only hitting 333 is he still a baseball player? Your point seems straight forward but suggests a certain perfection required. But of course you are right in general.
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Malhotra Ashokposted 7 years ago
There is a Christian in name and a Christian at heart. The first is easy to tell, the second is difficult but not impossible. When we find someone deviating hugely form principles of love, truth and simplicity - an essential part of being Christian - one might conclude that the person is not a Christian at heart.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  My worry along these lines is that of why one appears not Christian. I assume that for a lot of reasons one does not act Christian. The notion of an addict that just cannot help themselves. What of Paul's "thorn"?
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Tazmanuposted 7 years ago
no, simply asking the question posed many questions also.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. I have a little trouble with black and white notions here. I am not confident it is an all or nothing concept.
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Readmikenowposted 7 years ago
I've long pondered the question of what is and is not a Christian. I've gone on a journey to discover the meaning of Christianity. I've read the Bible, studied it's history, the languages form where it was translated. I've attended every type of Christian church service from Roman Catholic to a small local Christian church in rural Virginia. I've spoken with hundreds of people. It's my opinion that nobody knows. Everybody who claims to be a Christian tends to judge others Christians to validate their own beliefs as right. Few realize that by doing such a thing, they are going against the teachings of Jesus.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I like it. Kind of an "everybody knows, nobody knows". Your answer begs the question -- Can we even decide if we are Christian or not.
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  Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think the idea of who is and who is not a Christian is very personal. There are those who see it the same way, band together and form churches. As the Bible teaches us, in the end, God will be the judge.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose that no matter what we cannot keep our mind from judging somewhat. So perhaps we can but should not.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What did they tell you in church Read? What do you consider the teachings of God? I hope I don't sound hostile. I would really like to kow.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane for me it is rather simple. That which Jesus taught. It takes discernment and prayer. Trying to makes sense out of the different versions. Applying those teachings to further reading of the Bible and others. The other learnings are extra.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  So you restrict your reading to the 4 gospels? Do you believe there is a contradiction between the gospels and the epistles?
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  GTNT, 1 Pet 2:9 reads "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;" and being "peculiar" to the world is what christ's teachings are about. Answering you, they contradict and agree with each other.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nature, I was responding to Eric but thank you for answering. How does that Scripture indicate contradiction. I understand it as we are to be in the world but not of the world. It does not mean be prideful or boastful but humble and compassionate.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane, I really do not see your angle hear. Did I say I restrict my readings? And yes I think there will always be contradictions in human story telling, accounts and versions. Everything must be in accord with Jesus's teachings not exactly alike.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No trick Eric. You reference what Jesus taught. There are quotes in the gospels. It made me think of instructions to churches which are not based on quotes but inspiration. In study, I'm used to breaking down a sentence into phrases. No harm mea
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No offense taken Diane. Thank you for clarifying. I do not worship Paul or James for that matter. But I heed what they say and find wisdom in it. These men are like Descartes and Aquinous and Luther to me. And I do not exclude others for wisdom.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, I had to look these guys up for specifics. I typed in Luther and guess who popped up? Luther Vandross!
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  GDNT, what are some details showing what being in the world but not of it is? Mat 19:29, John 3:8, Mat 28:19-20.
  Read Isa 45:7 and see if the written concept that "god is good" isn't contradicted.
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Paul K Francisposted 7 years ago
Jesus said something about removing the plank in one's own eye before trying to remove the speck in the eye of another. One may say, "there is no plank in my eye" but, I think, by judging others in ways like deciding whether or not they are Christians, can lead to a quick build up of specks in our own eyes. It is a great thing that we have the ability to make judgments and form opinions. It is in our nature. It helps us make choices and decisions. But we also have the freedom to let it go at some point, choosing not to make such personal decisions about others (before all that sawdust gets too thick and becomes a plank). Seeing more clearly, we know that to help someone with that speck in their eye is through love and all that other good stuff. Have a great day.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Paul this is a really nice response. It reflects your peaceful good nature. I think through my children that notion of a bad act versus a bad person has been ingrained in me. We must judge actions and not people.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Humans are running on their own power like a battery due to being severed of the life line to keep us eternally living from our Heavenly Father.Adam and Eve severed our life line. But provsions were paid to repair and return it to us to keep living.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  U & I went round on this, K&T. The 'big lie' is that we have been severed - a HARMFUL pagan ideal - when we have not - a 'christ' ideal. J didn't die to save souls 4 God, he 'saved' them from misinformation - re-established later thru C relig
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T I think my pumping heart is exactly like a battery. I do not think it needs to be out of charge in order for me to be united with God. This denial of free will is a bad notion. Good or Bad things are my decision. That is not bad.
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dashingscorpioposted 7 years ago

The answer is categorically no!
If there was a "one size fits all" Christian there would not be so many different Christian church denominations.
From the moment the bible was canonized (the process of deciding which books to include and exclude) there have been debates and splinter groups.
Truth be told most people "cherry pick" which verses of scripture they will obey and which ones they will dismiss or ignore.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 states everyone is a sinner!
"For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
Ironically in Matthew 5:17 Jesus essentially states he didn't come to start a "new religion" or abolish the existing law of the Torah.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Essentially if Jesus had his way Christians would be following the laws of the Torah and there would be no such thing as the Holy Bible or "Christianity. People of his time would have accepted he was the son of God arriving as promised.
I suspect it's human nature for mankind to look for ways to say one person is "better than another" or my religion/god is the "real god" or your group is going to hell because it doesn't do whatever....etc
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. You have several good points. For some reason your answer made me think of "group think". It does seem to be we really most often think "he does not act like WE think he should". I think the love speak by Christ is a new commandment.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well said! I have 2 links in my spotlight hub: 1 by Kabbalist leaders correcting Jew/Christian misconceptions & 1 that explains how Kabbalah was probably 'the original Jewish law' Jesus was talking about fulfilling.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Do tell more Catherine. I will watch and comment after you so you can do a few comments in a row -- Very interesting. Your knowledge is awesome.
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  cam8510posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm listening too, Catherine. Very interesting.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Its a puzzle & dang long story... What if Jesus came to show peeps we were just like him 'gods in the flesh' to free their minds from the 'unworthy' pagan beliefs they were familiar with? Hardly any C-state-religious 'beliefs' were NEW.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and?
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And what if there was ANOTHER Jewish 'law' (Kabbalah) that originated from the same person (Moses) containing the same 'scriptures' & had a non-pagan message that was unknown to Roman or Church leaders at the time to include or apply it?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Alright this seems like an interview hub - I interview you but argue to draw out this completely whacko approach LoL. Keep going
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hopefully curiousity is peaked enough to look into: Kabbalah talks about the Kingdom of God within as Jesus claimed & C portrays J as a pagan god whose blood needed to 'purify' us. Peeps didn't know they were WHOLE the way they were...
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It's interesting how everyone has an opinion. Prov. 14;12 "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death." Everybody can't be right.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane I respect your feeling and conviction on this matter. I have a little trouble accepting one verse to cover a notion without context. Sentient minds are not rubber stamps.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I've given quite a few verses. The point is that you don't take a geography test without studying geography. When you pick a doctor, you want a medical doctor not a philosopher. The Bible is the book for Christians. It should be studied.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you friend we learn much from you.
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MichaelMcNabbposted 7 years ago
Yes, a self proclaimed Christian can decide for themselves if they consider another person to be a fellow Christian. It's not like we can control another person's thoughts.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well made point.
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  Mr Buenoposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Could it be, and as I am not a Christian, perhaps I am not best placed to comment, that the historic Jesus acted from the heart and not the head, thus defining his teaching purely in words misses the point entirely?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is a very valid point to add to this. There is the notion that what we say is the overflow of the heart. We could add act to that concept. Good stuff.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  From the heart the mouth speaks Lk 6:45 - thoughts R inspired from soul, processed thru brain, then blurted out. If you value non-judgment, your thoughts don't even go there. If U believe God commands it, they do. Its a choice.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Our cognitive ability to direct our thoughts. And yet I think we have to realize that a lifetime of practice cannot be reversed simply by changing thoughts. But maybe epiphany transformation can alter our judgment structure. Can we stop judging?
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I've been asking myself that, bcuz its such a double-whammy: you can be a judgemental person; or you can be a person who judges judgemental people for being the way they are - as harshly as they judge others. Neither helps & both draws us in...
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irbinfrastructureposted 7 years ago
I think no one can decide who is and is not a Christian. According to me it is just a way to categorised the humanity.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point but according to many many philosophers that is all any word is. All words are labels.
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Omar Eldamsheetyposted 7 years ago
No, If you keep your beliefs inside your heart and your mind.
Yes, If you announce it to the others.
How ?
If you deny the exist of the sun, then the others can say that you are blind.
If you deny the exist of God, then the others can say that you are An Atheist.
and so on.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. I suppose that is basically the meaning of "can".
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  RichardLionHeartposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, where is your evidence that Christians spent 300 years with out the scriptures? The Lord maintained His church and the seed to plant the church and produce christians is God's Word, Luke 8: 11. The scriptures have always been available!
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Go away Richard. Your misquoting and ridiculous reference is not appreciated by folks trying to lead a Christian life or learn about it. You quote the word and the law wrongfully. Sadducee.
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Mr Buenoposted 7 years ago
In the case of Donald Trump, yes. He can say he is a Christian until the cows come home but he represents exactly the opposite of what Christianity stands for.

You can have faith, but by your deeds shall you be known.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well Mr. Bueno, I would venture and wager, that by your standards you are neither a Christian. I reckon that time you took a double take that was lust and covetness.
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  Mr Buenoposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  How amusing that you wrote this question and then you stand in judgment yourself. I would wager there is more Christianity in my little finger than in your twisted world. And yet, you are correct, I'm not a Christian. Funny that, isn't it?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Clearly you came to disrupt. That is cool. I did not set my standards upon you but rather your standards upon you. But obviously you are here to be contentious. I would like to visit your finger. Vanity is always interesting to see.
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  Mr Buenoposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Apologies if I shone light upon hypocrisy. I see it as my duty as a human being. Call it disruption if you will. By your deeds shall you be known.
  
  And by the way, how did you come to a conclusion about 'my standards?'
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty precise - and apologies if I was harsh; Mr Bueno says
  
  In the case of Donald Trump, yes. He can say he is a Christian until the cows come home but he represents exactly the opposite of what Christianity stands for
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yet mr Bueno, you speak the truth. They go hand in hand.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, I realize this is 3 weeks old; but LOOK... U would never have responded the way U did if U weren't a staunch Trump supporter; & many Christians believe Trump to be as 'unChristian' as Mr. B. Its a mirror of your question. Objectivity?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Let me be clear. I am not a staunch supporter of any politician. (maybe Susan Davis my rep) I go with issues. I really do not care for Trump's appearance. Not hating people does not mean you support them. That narrative hurts our country.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't the way you have spoken about him in the past, and again - you would not have made the 1st response you did if you didn't have such respect for him. I'm not saying respect for Trump is bad - defending him has clouded your objectivity.
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Myrnamahamodsaliposted 7 years ago
people can only decide if another person Christian according to their standards.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think those standards are universal or values we each have?
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kittythedreamerposted 7 years ago
Hi Eric! No, I don't believe anyone can decide whether another person is Christian or any other kind of religion for that matter. BUT it also depends on whether or not the person believes religion is different from spirituality. Someone can call themselves Christian just because they go to Church, but have absolutely no spiritual connection to Jesus or any of the Christian ideals. Likewise someone who is "spiritual" and feels a deep connection to Jesus may call themselves Christian but never go to Church. So I guess the answer is still No. Great question, though.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Nicole, it is good to hear from you. It just hit me; Do I go to church because I am Christian? I will have to think about what you said here. Maybe I go to become Christian? I wonder if that makes sense.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Also Diane did Judas know the scolls ?
  Judas also walk with the Sovereign Son in preaching and feeding and healing people.
  Its more than what you know !
  its about maintaining tests and trials of our own moral integrity .Satan knows what written
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This is an insightful answer. Most 'spiritual' Christians I have known are a little irreverent about going to church & often do it for their families. I keep saying, religions & churches R a way to Christ - but, they are not 'the way'.
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  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  NC, Religions are cults [prevents some personalities from developing, allows others to grow uninhibited] Spirituality is examining the 360 degrees outer and having gone from top through the bottom two comprehend what the subject means.
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manatita44posted 7 years ago
No. The Path to God is a labour of the Heart; of Love. Once one steps into the zone of love, speech, as we know it, becomes obsolete. That which cannot be put into words can only be grasped through Silence. Wisdom is the language of Silence. The Seer knows All, but in knowing all, sees ALL in the One and the One in ALL. Therein lies the Paradox.

Chistianity can be viewed from two standpoints: That which started perhaps 2000 years ago with follows of Jesus, seeking a Kingdom of Glory, with all its forms, dogmas, beliefs, rituals ... (necessary for some), or the abiding Love of a God-seeker, in quest of a sojourn to his true Self, which is birthless, timeless and immortal.

Such a quest has been around from the dawn of Creation and is not unique to any one prophet or Messiah.

In a more practical way, we say, not decide, that one is a Christian, if he has been brought up with Christian theology or Christian doctrine as we know it, and seeks to adhere to it or follow its ways. Much the same as a Buddhist, Jew, Hindhu ...

I was brought up a Christian. The home or structure is very necessary and morals and etiquettes do help us. Spirituality is all-encompassing and knocks nothing.

We are all consciously or unconsciously Souls, seeking by different means and at different rungs of the ladder, the same One Consciousness which some call God, Allah ... according to our leanings and level of wisdom. No bad thing. Diversity is necessary in the higher scheme of things. Much Love, my Friend.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We come to believe there is only one true God. A Christian God perhaps. But who would be so presumptuous that our God cannot take other forms. Perhaps a Christian is one who thinks God is limited to their God?
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  manatita44posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ha ha. Perhaps. Part of the plan. This whole thing is called a Divine Lila (Leela, to some), meaning a Divine game, a beautiful game. God is just having fun. (Chuckle) The Sage just wants to Love. He does not even seek Happiness.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  My son came after me the other day and asked "is playing games bad dad". He had heard an adult use the phrase. My understanding on this is simple. Man plans and God laughs. Man understands and God shakes his head. So we try.
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  manatita44posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  well put.
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Salvation is available to everyone, regardless of their upbringing. To the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise." The love of God gives everyone an equal opportunity to receive salvation.
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Rich kelleyposted 7 years ago
Short answer is yes, people do it all the time. Are they correct? that is the big bucks question that can be presented either way depending on your goal/beliefs. There are professing Christians that will fall in both the yes and no camps. There are legal beagles that would defend either answer. You can get support or adverse comment either way.

The first time the word shows up in print it wasn't one Christian believer pointing fingers at another refuting their claims of membership as though it was a club or something. The outsider pointed at practicing believers and said them folks over there are followers/disciples of Christ. Someone pointed a finger and made a statement, and now everyone wants to point fingers and make statements.

I kind of think of this situation like one family member telling another, mom/dad loves me more than you. Really, how do you know? Answer; Actions.

This topic has become so divisive that when asked if I'm one I don't answer. I would hope that the walk and not the talk will carry more weight with onlookers. Realizing that discipleship is a journey and not a destination has enabled me to be more hopeful for others as well as myself. It is the way I wear my clothes that matter, claiming I have a wardrobe but never showing it to anyone gets old. The flip side is don't put a t-shirt on and tell me it is a coat.

Do we make judgments? Yes we do, but it is how we handle what we decide that can make the difference. Our brains have right/left, right/wrong, up/down for a reason and the "correct" answer to this question will happen when the wheat is separated from the chaff, the goats from the sheep etc. To date I've not been asked to be part of the winnowing.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich thank you for that very insightful answer. This morning I had a strange thought as our small family was getting ready for the day with banter and catching up. Is my wife a Christian? Ans: I just know that she is.
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Gaurav Oberoiposted 7 years ago
The answer is a flat NO. Unless the person in question is a straight up criminal. otherwise I believe that be it any religion, no one can or should for that matter, decide or infer such a thing about the other person. The reason is simple. We are all humans and are limited by our own perception. Our perceptions define our attitude and our attitude in turn influences our decisions. Thus our perceptions directly affect our decisions and that's too subjective isn't it?

Now it is a FACT that an objective effect cannot be preceded by a subjective cause. Subjective logic cannot lead to an objective inference.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I do not believe this to be correct; "Subjective logic cannot lead to an objective inference." Of course it can. "To me" he stinks like booze. Objective inference - he has been drinking - the smell is subjective, drunk is objective.
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  Gaurav Oberoiposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Eric, How have u been?Firstly thanks for the insightful question. Secondly,ur example here is incorrect.if he is drunk he will smell like booze to everyone not only you. That's not what is meant by "Subjective logic cannot lead to an objective inf
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nope the smell of booze does not get discerned by those who are not familiar with drink and those who are drunk. Cops actually need to get trained in such matters. Whiskey different than beer and vodka different than gin. Mouthwash, Flambou? Handwash
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  Gaurav Oberoiposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  But the stink is there. Its presence is undeniable. There is a difference between opinion and logic. And at the end of the day the fact still remains. The answer is still a flat NO. Another person cannot decide who is or isn't a Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. Certainly in this context we need to be careful about trying to objectify our subjective. Maybe this is exactly why we are directed to determine this by the empirically observed actions rather than guessing about the heart.
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  Gaurav Oberoiposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That is quite true! I agree.
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Rock_njposted 7 years ago
No, but the good book certainly makes it clear what a Christian is, and its rather easy to identify those who do not follow its teachings.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I get this John in the positive - he is Christian because of his actions. But it is a leap to say because he sins he is not. See my point?
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  Rock_njposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There must be some way of objectively determining what a Christian is (following the teachings in The Bible) or else nobody is a Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  John, there are about a dozen or more 12 step programs for quitting one thing or another. The basic membership criterion is; "A desire to stop...." You do not have to stop smoking or be sober you just have a desire. Perhaps Christianity is similar?
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Team Wisemanposted 7 years ago
The world will know you belong to Me when you Love one another. -Jesus
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It seems quite clear that if we see someone without any love then probably not. Love is not just an action it is a being. Not just a feeling but something more.
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faith-hope-loveposted 7 years ago
Although the answer to the "Question" is a "No".

We must remember that Jesus said [They will know you are my Disciples by the Love you give to each other. (The love you show one to others.)]

This means an Agape Love. Love to others without expecting a return. When we have Faith it comes from inside of us from our passions and our feelings. So the decision on whether we are "Christian" or not is ours. Though some do set themselves up to Judge in their own self Righteousness. Jesus also said {(Judge Not that you be not judged)}

This simply means that We DO NOT JUDGE others but we sometimes have to make a judgement call on some things. For example decisions on Morals. We must be ready to reach out to others, in Faith, with help and concern.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Awesom John succinct and right on.
  So John I am working on a notion that this Christian (know me by my fruits) issue is stand up right. Maybe not our obvious actions but our act of some sort of contrition. Always trying to engage in doing better.
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tamarawilhiteposted 7 years ago
When someone denies universal tenets of Christianity, like denying the divine nature of Jesus, his status as the messiah or basic tenets per the Ten Commandments as the basis of morality (and no, the New Testament does not negate them), then yes, you can say they are not a Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Just a quick question on basic tenets. Is the Trinity one such tenet? Is perfection in following a tenet? Nicene Creed? Lord's prayer with Catholic insertions?
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  tamarawilhiteposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Basics - 1 god, Jesus is messiah, 10 commandments, no later prophets/messiahs/revelations. Trinity, Jesus being utterly perfect, prayers to be used - negotiable.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I like your picks here and regarding country music. So please suggest what about people who have different, more or less tenets. I am so lame I really only have the two about God and others. I even question a need for auditory confession and repenten
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  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Tamara! I'm just going back reading some of the responses. There must be parameters for a discussion like this.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane brought this up again. You believe Christ is not God?
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promisemposted 7 years ago
Was Adolph Hitler a Christian? I don't need to know his mind. His deeds spoke clearly that he was not.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That seems so cut and dried that there would be no question. Probably a Billion more people on earth than when Saul went around killing disciples. But for sure the same genocidal type maniac. Then Paul or Saul are as bad and un-Christian as Hitler?
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  Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hitler was NOT a christian. "The Nazi party endorsed what it termed "Positive Christianity" which removed the religion of its Jewish origins, set up Hitler as a messiah, and did not require the belief in the divinity of Christ.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If you both agree that he was not a Christian based on his actions, then we can judge Christians based solely on their actions and not on their thoughts.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Can you say less about Saul?
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, why do you refer to Saul. He didn't know God when he did horrendous things to gods people and when he learned how serious and wrong what he did was he changed his ways and became a believer and turn his way to good. Even changed his name, Paul.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie, does you sin of yesterday or even today define what you are today? Judas did real bad, but without it, we have no passion, cruicifixion and resurrection. Did he repent before death? Do we define Paul by Saul? Bad today does not define us.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, I don't know as much about Saul as I do about Hitler. The records on Saul are vague. The records about Hitler are clear. Either way, the actions of a person say a lot about that person.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no doubt friend. I just see the extremes as good reflections of the more normal. We really see this about Trump. I think we have it so well that we make monsters that we can say are not Christian. Truly making someone out to be a devil??
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Eric. Do you agree that we can judge someone as being either a Christian or not based only on their actions?
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No way. My eldest brother is a devout antagonistic anti Christian atheist. But he worships nature. This guy acts so much like an ideal Christian it is amazing. A better man not to be found. Same with those Tibetan folks and Native Americans.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I live in Seattle, CRAMMED with people like Eric's brother - and yeah, they 'act' notoriously Christian & can be as judgmental. Just TRY to throw a sodacan away instead of recycling it in front of one, LoL! Hitler STARTED OUT Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and I think he died one also. Sanity and Morality are not guaranteed under Christ. Nor are gravity of depravity or foulness of thought. Christian simply does not mean good. It means grace. We have learned that here. Actions do not dictate.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Then Eric, how can we say that Hitler was not a Christian? We couldn't see into his thoughts.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Scott, could God have made him one without our permission?
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, the only way your sin doesn't define us is if it's in the past. Paul never went back to his old ways, judas was a deceiver, he was a wolf in sheeps clothing. Plotting against Jesus, took money to help trap him. There is a difference between the
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie I really do get where you are coming from. But I worry that we think we earn "Christianess". It seems fairly clear that we are not to decide but God is. God could have made a monster a Christian on his death bed.
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Eric. I guess we see it differently and that's ok. I don't believe we earn it. It's a way we choose to be. That's were free will comes in. The word of god gives guide lines. It's up to us to follow or not. No God doesn't make monsters humans do.
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  manatita44posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Terrie, hi. Eric could have meant an ill-intentioned person, turning over a new leaf through Grace. Happens all the time, even on death row.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There is a dogmatic Catholic idea of the ordinary - which we must do and the extra-ordinary, what God can do. God can make a horrible man a Christian. So our judgment is less than God's but something to strive for.
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LoliHeyposted 7 years ago
In my opinion, no one can be a perfect Christian, but all should strive to. It is easy to judge other Christians, however, I know I mess up now and then. There are Christians who don't approve of the Pope and support Trump, while others are strongly opposed to our new president and the immigrant restrictions that are in place place now. Who is right? Because we are all inherently evil, we will be lacking in certain areas. What pisses me off, though, is when non-Christians who know very little about Christ, start judging.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Lolita, we will never escape the old pointing fingers at us for not acting like Christians by non-Christians. It is what it is. My favorite is that I am not allowed to get pissed off - not loving. My tongue is real sharp and dual edged. But so be it.
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Cre8torposted 7 years ago
A person can and does decide whatever they choose. In our own minds decisions get made all the time but how we act on those decisions is where the important decision making begins and makes us who we are. (Wow, that was deep eh?)

I don't mind what a person chooses to decide about me and have myself decided that some "Christians" don't seem very Christian to me. That however doesn't change that I treat that person with respect and leave them to their own beliefs so long as they mean me no harm and pay me the same courtesy.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel that is very well put. You strike at the least of the accords we give others. It is not full on agape love, but it works without precluding it and that is a good level to be on. Maybe "love but verify". Thanks
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  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well put Daniel.
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Ann810posted 7 years ago
A Christian is a person that practices righteousness. This does not include the K.K.K. "so called Christians," because they are full of hate.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I would hope that this position is held by most. For decisions of man this radical example is useful. What purpose of God could possibly be served by them?
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The KKK (& other 'groups' & people that obviously tout darkness while proclaiming the light) are here to demonstrate 'negative' ideals for us to embrace or resist. They provide yet more choices & produce more DESIRES to create opposing id
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3. 56
  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Spirituality sees Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 concerns everything in existence, this being "the time of redemption" spiritual people should concern ourselves with comprehending & living the truths we see & leave the rest to spirit's purpose for them.
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4. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  God has changed the hearts of murderous, hatefuly people. Saul/Paul is a glaring example.
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KC Basseyposted 7 years ago
In order to answer the question, we must first look at how the word, 'Christian' came to be. This is recorded in the book of Acts. The Bible states that Christians were called thus because people noticed that they *acted* like Christ, in other words, Christian means 'Christ-like' with reference to His actions. Therefore this implies that someone who does not act like Christ, i.e. manifest the fruits of the Spirit as mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23 is inherently, by virtue of the original meaning of the word 'Christian', not actually a Christian. A true Christian is beseeched to act like one, to be a 'light to the world' and 'salt to the earth'. The Bible also states that 'out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks', but I also say that the abundance of the heart, will surely manifest in action. For God so loved the world (heartfelt) that He gave (action). This means that a true Christian should be so filled with the proper characteristics of a Christian, that they manifest it in their actions. If not, then they are not a Christian [harsh? I know]. A person who goes out to kill and proclaims to be a Christian is not a Christian unless he/she has truly repented and completely turned from their way. Now, of course, everyone falters because we have all fallen short of the glory of God, but God through Paul has given us permission to rebuke and correct one another. This is only possible if we are able to see the fault in one another, therefore we are able to call out/reproof a person who is not acting like Christ to change his/her ways, so as to save a soul.

The bottom line is that any action that is not Christ-like is not Christian, which means that no one deserves the title at all, but it is only by God's Spirit and by His redeeming grace that we are saved through faith, and therefore we simply *adopt* the name Christian, but living a Christian life is a daily war, and if someone is clearly not making an effort to live such a life, then another can clearly state (not judge) that the person is actually not a Christian but has merely forced the title on him/herself because of heritage (born into a Christian home) or what is in vogue. As a matter of fact, Jesus, in the book of Matthew tells us that if a so-called Christian is being unruly and has been admonished secretly, so as not to demoralise him, but refuses to repent after many admonitions, then the church can withdraw from him which is the same as deciding that he is no longer a Christian.
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting. The title is truly an undeserved position in anyone I know. I fear most for those who I do know that simply do not have the capacity to do the work required. God does not give the gift of self discipline to everyone. Reproof?
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2. 87
  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Discipline is not a gift. We all get it. It's called self control. We should all strive to achieve it. We also have free will. There are people who chose to do what's easy instead of doing the work that is hard. We are all different,
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  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting Terrie. Do you think very low IQs, ADD, addictions are moral problems? We do not all get discipline. Do you think epilepsy and diabetes which cause involuntary actions are a lack of control? You judge pretty harsh and black & white he
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4. 76
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Churches have split into two based on taking what Paul wrote as dogma - I lived thru a couple of them. Our Youth Pastors were considered to be 'no longer Christians' bcuz they went bankrupt. Truth is, not even God judges & bible isn't Christian.
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5. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Just in from Wicki "A Christian is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ." So no OT &no Pauline? No Acts or Revelation? No Luke???
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6. 87
  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, Eric I was replying to what you said. I have 2 special needs children and if you read my hubs you know that some things we don't have control over. But we are required to control and self disipline. I know what god says about disabilities, not .
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7. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Terrie for taking care of the "least of these" your commitment is what it means to give your life for another. And so of course I will look at this from your perspective, please clarify about how a child has the self discipline.
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8. 87
  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We teach children how to self disipline. My children know when they should behave. I never used their disability as an excuse for bad behaviour. They have a limit to their understanding but iam responsible to teach them to reach their full potential.
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9. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think another question/answer is in order. This notion of raising children to be more Christ like combined with the rod or not the rod is fascinating. How much of discipline is obedience and where does obedience go without discipline.
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10. 87
  Terrielynn1posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Eric. I think we are getting off topic. I believe in not sparing the rod of discipline. But it has to be tempered with love and understanding. You can have discipline without it being physical. Motto, think pause and breath. Not in moment of anger
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11. 67
  Tusitala Tomposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There's the meaning, and there's the label. Big difference between them.
  When I joined the Navy in 1954 I was asked, "What religion do you belong to? Catholic or Protestant?" (there was no other option) That's an example of the label.
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12. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I am not so sure of that Tom. There is this whole school of linguistic philosophy by Ludwig Wittgenstein that suggests all words are labels and must be contextualized. But I do get your point.
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13. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I like it KC. We are followers of Christ. We have no reason to boast within ourselves. What we get from the Lord is available to everyone who wants it. True believers should not goad people or gloat. We all have free will to make the choice.
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14. 61
  fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If I was interested in being "kept on my toes," I'd take ballet lessons! Anyone who "misses" the psycho, can volunteer at a Mental institution. It's not passion she had, it's pathology. Be real & stop w/ the lame excuses!
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Jennifer Mugrageposted 7 years ago
I understand that in John Winthrop's colony, an attempt was made to have a church composed only of "true" Christians ... those who had "really, truly" had a heart-changing experience of Christ, not "merely" those who professed their belief. This was accomplished by having the church elders conduct searching interviews of prospective inductees.

Of course, it was a terrible idea. As has been pointed out, no one can see into another's heart. Also, some people have "sunrise" conversions where they cannot point to one moment or even one year when they started to believe, but they know that they believe now. Anyway, this method resulted in the "halfway covenant" ... a bunch of adults who professed Christian doctrines, but had been determined by the church elders to be not truly regenerate in heart. They could attend church, but I believe they were excluded from communion and voting.

Terrible system.

This is why the most sensible method is to go by profession. If someone professes to be a Christian, we should accept that they are one. If they then proceed to profess some heresies, we should instruct/argue with/plead with them as a Christian who believes some wrong doctrine, not tell them they are not a believer.

I am personally glad that other Christians accept my profession of faith rather than applying a behavioral test.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think there is much to this approach. "The Imperfect Christian". Let me ask you if a person is not perfect in Christ or what is called "above reproach" can they correctly "instruct/argue/plead - reproach another Christian?
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SylviaSkyposted 7 years ago
Yes. Judeo-Christianity has certain stated rules. If those rules are broken (if the person steals, lies, covets another's wife, takes God's name in vain, flaunts his piety, doesn't follow what Jesus said, doesn't visit the sick and feed the poor) the person is objectively not a Christian.

There's a saying: "If you were put on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. I have never met a Christian then.
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joey2577posted 7 years ago
It depends on a persons' perspective, you cannot really tell due to the turmoil and civil wars in the church.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I think that that is a very valid point. If we see "Christian" as belonging to a religion then we have serious problems in identity. It seems it must be a personal chosen intent to follow the teachings not of a church but of Christ himself.
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Bhanu P Singhposted 7 years ago
no anyone cant tell that who is Christian or not..bcz its a personal wish of a person to follow any religion until and unless he reveals his religion no one cant tell about this. but irony is that in india anyone can tell u that what is the religion of other bcz there are many difference in them on basis of their costumes and traditions.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. there are several religions that use appearances to set them apart. And many just within the Christian community.
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2. 61
  Bhanu P Singhposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  yeah..
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3. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I was thinking on this. Casual clothes versus getting dressed up for church. Does in mean anything at all? When I preached I wore coat and tie. But I go to our fancy Basilica in shorts and Hawaiian shirt. Really interesting.
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dianetrotterposted 7 years ago
The Bible tells us who the Christians are. It's not what anyone, other than God, thinks.

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

What does God want us to do?
Matthew 22:37-38 37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Are Christians perfect? No! We are to ask forgiveness when we sin
1 John 1:8-10 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

When we love God and people, we will not want to do anything to hurt them, including hate them, steal from them, kill them, gossip about them, harass them, neglect them, etc.

Growing Christians
Christians should gather regularly to build each other up in the faith. Christians should love God's Word.

If you are a Christian that is not growing, you are STILL a Christian. Growing Christians are rewarded for their faithfulness in heaven. Non-growing Christians will STILL be there.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your interpretation of what a Christian is.
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fpherj48posted 7 years ago
Eric..I have passed by this question, thinking I probably shouldn't include my opinion. After nearly 6 yrs.on HP, it's become evident that this particular topic (religion, faith, beliefs, etc) is 1 seriously "hot-button," controversial topic It's the topic most members choose 2 avoid like the plague.The explanation 4 that is simple.There's the individual who, wisely, will not subject themselves 2 the obvious radicals who R certain they have all the answers, they're 100% correct & nothing at all is above or beyond what THEY think, say, do, believe, preach....AND NO ONE MAY DARE ARGUE NOR REBUT THEM ...lest they wish to suffer the insults, abusive taunts, vitriol, name calling and OH, let's not forget the damnation to HELL..Ohhhhh God..the "Lake of Fire!!" (Let's all shake in our boots now.) Frankly...speaking of Hell...."To HELL with those lunatics."

I have no right nor interest nor intention ever, 2 "decide who is & is not a Christian"~~(allow me 2 add:) or if they R a true Jew, Buddhist, Mormon, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, or brand new completely fabricated religion. !!
If the person is a friend, family member, neighbor, co-worker, casual associate, I assume that we're basically familiar with their religious leanings or at least in time, we become aware.I personally, do not question people nor pry (or even suggest what I "might think") in terms of something I believe is private information that people are not under pressure to divulge. We all have a choice 2 determine whether any individual is someone we care 2 associate w/ in any way whatsoever, despite whether they adhere 2 Christianity or not. I can form a rational opinion of someone in general, in terms of their character, attitude, demeanor, personality, moral fiber, actions or lack thereof..w/o any official LABEL. The term "Human Being" is all I am concerned with.
Any mere mortal who actually feels they have the right or authority to DECIDE who is or is NOT Christian, had better have UNDENIABLE, indisputable, unquestionable solid, visible, audible, documented, signed, sealed and delivered PROOF that they can introduce us to a living, breathing, walking, talking, Divine, miracle-performing Jesus Christ.
Because if HE didn't tell us who's Christian, we do not know!
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That is really cool. You sure are good with the shorthand. I like it. And your all caps are appropriate. And your message is very well put. I am not overly concerned with the half painful wit folks use. Your answer reflects Christian values I think.
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bunnysaikrishnaposted 7 years ago
If you want my answer then tell me that WHAT IS CHRISTIANITY.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It is good you asked this question. Christianity is a religion based on the notion that Christ was/is God. Everything else about Christianity varies from one group to another. A Christian is not necessarily one who follows the religion.
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2. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Bunny, you make the point! The Bible tells the prophecy of why, fulfillment, and future things. W/o the Bible there is no Christianity. How can people talk about what they do not know.
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3. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane, who was Paul without a Bible? Straighrforward. Was Paul a Christian without a Bible?
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4. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Paul wrote half of the New Testament.
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5. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We know that is correct and that he was a Christian. Without a Bible. Joe cannot do the same? Just back off your position a little bit. Or you look foolish. Normally we need a Bible. Extraordinary we do not.
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6. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
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7. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane, you do know that this is written before the Bible as a letter to uplift those carrying on without a Bible. The Bible contains what we now call Gospel. In fact Paul was writing the Bible -- how could he of followed it?
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8. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  E., I don't get your point. The passage has general application for believers to defend the Hope that lies within us at all times. I hope this is discussion and not argument.
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9. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane - this is what started the conversation " W/o the Bible there is no Christianity." Your words. Properly it is, there can be no bible without Christianity.
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10. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with that because God inspired these men to record their accounts - none conflicting with each other. It all stemmed from God's plan for Jesus to come became the sacrifice for our sins. He planned it all. It was recorded.
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11. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This is just painful Diane. Of course the 4 Gospels contradict. They are from different viewpoints. Anyone schooled knows that exactly the same account by 2 or more is a lie. It simply cannot happen. 2 witnesses 2 different stories. End of story.
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12. 62
  dianetrotterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity is a conscious decision to accept God's gift of eternal through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. At that point you are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit who guides you and convicts you have right and wrong.
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13. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Diane you are awesome I really appreciate the effort you make to clarify your position with God. It is easy to get mad and run away. Long-suffering is a love. I always learn from you. Your statement is clear and correct.
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14. 56
  The0NatureBoyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Acts 11:19-26's suggests Christians are "wandering messengers in the likeness of he who is called Christ." In the gospels his instructions to all who will become Christian were much the same as John 31-8, Mat. 19:29 & 28:19-20, being but three.
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Gwenneth Leaneposted 7 years ago
I don't believe we can decide who is a Christian. We can't see the heart of a person.
I believe that Christianity is a heart belief and faith based, so who can judge these things. Behavior comes from the heart - 'as a man thinks so
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't this beg the question as to whether our hearts can see into each other? Maybe not a "decision" but a "know".
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2. 83
  tamarawilhiteposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No, because we are judging their actions and stated beliefs contrary to Christian doctrine.
  reply report

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