Introducing: HubPro
I read it. WOW!
As long as I'm allowed to continue my own editing, I'm amendable.
An update. I see that we can.It's back.
If you guys want to check out some of the illustrations I got from the team, go to my profile and search for:
Green Apples
Watering Tomatoes
Aalite, if you dont mind could you show us which hub of yours was edited (I just wanna see those images
)
We will send you an email before we begin editing along with the Hubs that will be edited.
We are all Americans, but we retain the British/Canadian language structure-as SpartucusJones stated. Thanks, Spartucus!
We are mainly fact checking out of date information or information that jumps out at us as completely inaccurate. If we can't verify the information, we trust the author. I don't think your Hubs would fall into this category.
This would be an amazing service and perhaps something that could happen in the future, but right now it doesn't meet one of our main goals: to impact as many readers as possible.
You are free to opt out at any time, just remember that you can't opt back in to the program for 60 days. Also, on HubPages, you always own your own content and can edit it after we finish--in fact, we hope it ignites a fire to start editing regularly. We give you a detailed document showing what has been changed and the reasons why we are making the changes. We hope that you retain the edits, but ultimately, it's up to you.
I hope not. We should be helping each other and working together. In the beta we are only editing a small percentage of Hubbers, and we hope that editing these Hubs will be a positive move for the entire company. Improving Hubs that have many readers should impact the entire site and improve the HubPages brand. This is just the beta though, our hope is to extend the service to as many Hubbers as possible.
Thanks for taking the time to voice your concerns, CMHypno. Let me know if I missed anything!This, I suppose, isn't particularly my problem with the Hubs I have left (or even any I may write); but I figured it's worth sharing a concern on behalf of the site (for what's it's worth or not worth). That is that separate from a very specialized area (like yours, WA), there remains the problem that editors/fact checkers still would, ideally, need to understand some subjects enough to recognize, say, a well written Hub with mostly accurate but incomplete information (which pretty much amounts to a Hub that can be misleading to anyone who assumes the research/information is more than just one aspect (or a partial aspect) of the subject.
I just ran into the kind of issue to which which I'm referring. It's a subject I've spent a lot of time researching/studying up on; and the Hub/information would look great to anyone who isn't as familiar with the subject as I. Fact-checking may/may not reveal that the info is not complete (and it looks like the author is a "research-only" kind of author, or at least one unaware of the broader pool of information/facts that are out there. (If s/he was aware of it I guarantee that x percent of the Hub would be shown to missing information, and another x percent (a smaller percentage) would show that because of that the whole Hub is kind of "off-kilter with regard to accuracy.
Here's what I think someone may want to consider (or not - makes no difference to me): While someone like you, WA, knows that you have a "heavy-duty-specialized" field for which opting out is probably a good idea; the individual who writes the kind of Hub that isn't quite as "heavy-duty-specialized" may be satisfied with research that remains incomplete (and then base a Hub on it).
I think editing is great, and I think fact-checking is great. I have no concerns about those (again, on behalf of the site - not me, personally). But, if quality information is also the aim (and I'm thinking it is), there is still that thing that people who are not extremely familiar (truly, solidly, familiar) with a subject (beyond personal experience with it and a little reading or researching), the people who either don't know or don't care that they they don't have a solid enough familiarity with the subject (years of reading/researching for one reason or another) to recognize that the Hub's information is incomplete enough to make it at least x percent misleading, or even inaccurate.
If HP has something set up (or were to set up something) by which people who are experts in some subjects would go through and look for incomplete information/inadequate research because they know the subject "super-well"; I'd think that would be something worth having (because while fact-checkers may spot bad facts I'd think fact-checkers/editors alone aren't as likely to detect missing information and the "skewing" that can result from it. Without that kind of thing if people who DO know a subject read a Hub, recognize that someone only researched "so much", and generally has accurate enough facts (while the message of the Hub is skewed/inaccurate/incomplete), and essentially notice nicely presented "off" information. This kind of stuff will keep falling through the cracks, and who's going to notice why it is that - for as "professional" as it looks - at least SOME Hubs (on serious subjects) have pretty flimsy information.
I don't know... I still think that there are some types of subjects that people on here should stay away from unless they're going to use an approach that doesn't suggest solid information from research when it just isn't that. All the rest of that aside, the best format and grammar that "pretends" to be well researched (and, yes, condensed - but there's a difference between "condensed" and "incomplete"/"inadequate") is only going to look like quality, solid, information to the author (or editors) who don't know any better; and is otherwise going to look really, really, bad to anyone who knows a subject better. Google's bots may not recognize the kind of thing I'm referring to, but human readers will - at least those who know the subject better than the Hub would suggest the author/editors do.
It's not my site, and not my business really; but at least with some subjects (and sometimes the kind of subjects that matter most, and I've seen several of the type I'm referring to over the last how-ever many months) it's still looking as if flimsy quality is going farther and farther "underground" on here; and - I don't know - I can't see how that could possibly be good over the long term.
Super-long post alert (obviously, don't read it if you don't want to), but I can't imagine I'm the only Hubber on here with this particular type of set of challenges (as far as editing, not-editing, quality, etc. goes). (I considered turning the post into a Bubble
, but I thought it may serve more use on the forum here. )
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On the subject of editing, I don't think I plan to opt out (at least), but I pretty much don't think most of Hubs are worth editing; and that one reason what's left of the once-300-plus Hubs I had are just kind of sitting until I figure out what, if anything, I should do with them.
I took out a couple of hundred Hubs that I thought just didn't fit on this site, now that big, elaborate, researched, information-only Hubs are being emphasized.
What was left was a handful of "mediocre-but-informative" Hubs, many that I'd written in reply to HP's Answers sections (and hadn't bothered much with perfecting any titles) (so I do have, largely, a big collection of Hubs with really poorly designed titles). So, by getting rid of my couple of hundred Hubs (that may or may not have remained featured if I'd left them), I killed off a bunch of views I may have been getting from anyone who did make their way to HP's site and browse for the kind of writing I'd been doing.
I've gone back and forth between whether I should leave what's here (as long as it's published and featured, or even if it isn't featured) or whether I just trim my account down to the handful that may get search engine traffic (because they're old, in most cases); of whether, if I do that, I'll kill off any search engine traffic by stripping my subdomain down to fewer "quality" Hubs than it has now (which isn't many).
Or, whether I should just write more Hubs, keeping in mind "the latest" in terms of what HP (and I) think is "quality", and aim to at least build back up to where the occasional human follower/browser may show up and let the views (and Hubs) build up more slowly.
I'd imagine if editors run into some of those Hubs-in-question they may say something like, "Either fit this up or delete it", in which case I'd know what I should be doing.
There was a time when I did best on here with Ad Sense only, and then, eventually, it became clear (before and after deleting the 200 or so) that HP ads and views were the better way for me to go. So for me, personally, there's that conflict of whether I should aim for Google traffic, get rid of everything else (and just go with Ad Sense only again); or whether, at least on this site, I should forget about search engine traffic, aim for (few as they may be at any given time) human HP browsers; but aim to offer human readers something to read if/when they do come looking for the kind of writing they tend to want to read. (I don't fool myself into thinking that a lot of followers actually want to read what someone writes, because as soon as anyone gets the idea someone gets any traffic to speak of they're likely to follow for reasons other than actual interest in the person's writing - but that's the point here).
So, I go back and forth between thinking I should, at least for now, leave the iffy/less-than-stellar Hubs up - at least until they're gradually replaced with closer-to-stellar ones; or else just stripping out the subdomain, leaving five (maybe ten, I don't know) "closer-to-stellar-ish" Hubs; and maybe aiming to increase my Google traffic (and Ad Sense earnings).
So, for now, with the exception of one or two Hubs that I don't want changed (and would rather remove them and/or combine them with other Hubs); as far as I'm concerned, I've got a big pile of cr*p on my subdomain; and if any editors want to "fix them up" (or suggest I just delete them), I'd be fine with that.
Ironically, when I removed that 200-plus Hubs that I was fairly certain (at least at the time) no longer belonged on this site (according to what was being said was wanted on here these days); what was left (again, with the exception of a very few of my Hubs) were essentially "crud-Hubs" as far as I'm concerned (in terms of quality Hubs). Even with that, though, the other "ironically" is, as someone else said above, information/insight/observations that I stand behind and can back up.
I tend to think the biggest challenge is for non-fiction writers who want to offer solid information/insight that isn't based on research-only.
Separate from my own personal dislike of pictures-for-the-sake-of-pictures ( particularly on no-nonsense and/or SOME serious subjects) (and I'm not assuming that the right Hub on some serious subjects would be expected to presented "iPhone Style" ), it's still not entirely clear to me what, exactly, belongs on this site these days...
OK, here's a really unpleasant example of where I think I may have something to offer the person looking for something on this subject; and where I don't think it would be right for this site - based on what is now being pushed as a quality/findable Hub: For some time now I've thought about writing what I thought would be helpful Hub to anyone who has to help their children get through knowing a grandparent has gone through bi-lateral amputation of the legs. I had to try to figure out how to present that to my kids, and what to say to them, first with their grandfather and later with their grandmother. (different reasons for both, neither survived more than days; but needless to say, it added "an element" to helping three kids of different ages deal not only with the loss of a grandparent but with the "particular nastiness" that led up to it.
Nobody searching for that subject (if they're like me) wants to be scrolling past all kinds of stuff, figuring out if they're reached they end (but, oops, no, there's still more yet again - but first an ad or a picture or whatever - and really, how relevant a picture is going to appropriate for this particular type of Hub?).
So, it goes back to the thing about whether that kind of subject even belongs on this particular site these days; and it goes back to whether I'd be able to, say, keep the Hub to few enough words (what, maybe under 1500?) to keep from having, say, 3000 words in the form of the dreaded, and very un-smart-phone-like, big block of text).
So yet another irony, in terms of quality material/writing, is that I have the writing skill to adapt to whatever any site or whatever else wants (or to any subject); and I, like a lot of people (particularly over a certain age, but even age isn't always the thing) have a certain set of experiences that I could, maybe, actually be helpful to someone on. Yet, I'm sitting on a meager handful of mediocre (at best) Hubs that survived only because they kind of/sort of don't conflict too much with the latest, stated, aims of the site in terms of quality/information.
I'm fine with editing, and I'm even fine with "these no longer fit into what HP wants on its site". I'm even fine with "HP is OK enough with your stinko Hubs that have a score of - like - 59 as long you know you won't get Google traffic or money for them; and shape up from here on." I think, if nothing else (and it won't be "nothing else" anyway) that editing might show up some of the Hubs that people write when they clearly don't really know their subject and have presented it from a personal-experience viewpoint that does highlight (personal experience or not) that they don't really know their subject. I'd also be fine if an editor contacted me and said (essentially), "If you don't do x with this Hub then please remove it because it doesn't measure up to what we want on here." With the exception of those very few Hubs that I care about for my own reasons and that I presented my own way and want them kept that way, I pretty much would appreciate it if anyone feels like adding or changing anything they want to any of the Hubs I have; because I don't care about most of them since I long ago deleted the ones I thought were the highest quality writing and left only those that, by some slim thread, may possibly be construed at having a shred of usefulness to them.
I mostly keep the "Lisa" account alive because I hate losing almost seven years' worth of history on it (and on this site). I do, though, have a three-year-old other account that I've been thinking of turning into my "real" account now. I think I could bypass the boot-camp thing that way (maybe?), and just let whatever happens to this "Lisa" (pen name) account happen. Either way, I don't mind "shaping up" with new Hubs I write, but I don't want to get all into a whole bunch of work, trying to fix up most of the stuff I have on here. Basically, my main question is does anyone mind if it stays "harmlessly" on here - or not? It's not spam, and it's not bad information or poor grammar. It's just not stellar as far as Hubs go.It's still your work, and there isn't any difference in the way we treat your Hub or its earnings.
Just like in the past, you are free to move your work and the edits as well as the images that we are having commissioned. We are just trying to provide a helpful service. The work remains yours. All published novels have editors; their names are not on the book as the author - neither are our names. Thanks for the comments, Eric!
What exactly do these editors know that they're able to increase traffic by 17%? I can't imagine simply fixing some spelling errors and typos would make that big a difference.
If they have some criteria they are aiming for in regard to layout, images, content length, or whatever, is there any talk of sharing that with the general HubPages community? Does it differ from the information already available in the Learning Center or the goals in the Hub Tool?
I try to build Hubs using the advice I've learned here on HP, plus things I've learned elsewhere that have seemed to work. But if there is more advice out there, and if it could increase my traffic my 17%, I'd sure like to know about it rather than wait for an editor to fix my Hub for me.
I'll surely give this a try, but I'd also like to know WHY they think their decisions are better. If I can know that to begin with, they may not have to edit my Hub at all!
Edit: Sorry if this post came off as snarky. Didn't mean it that way at all. I'm truly interested in learning more about how to succeed here, and if there is any info available I'd be interested.Thank you for all of your helpful insight and input, Spartucus! I really appreciate your help!
We will be creating a Learning Center entry as well as a FAQ with more information on the changes that we are making so that Hubbers that aren't in the initial beta can improve their own Hubs.
Hi Dale, you have been so patient! I'm sorry it has taken us a while to get to your account; I believe you are next in the queue. Part of the learning process in the pilot was assessing how long it will take to edit Hubs, and we underestimated that a bit. We have hired four more editors though, taking our total up to seven. They will be on the About Us page by next week!
Thanks, Susi! The pilot is just finishing up, and we will begin editing Hubs in the beta next Friday. (We are giving Hubbers one week to opt out, if they choose to do so.) If your account is in the editing queue, you will receive an email a week or so before we begin editing. This program is a marathon, not a sprint. It is going to take some time!
- calculus-geometryposted 9 years ago
0 lol! Timetraveler that was a joke as people were worried about individual hubscore rather than getting more visits. I have hubs with 100 scores right at the moment and no those aren't the traffic stats
I understand the feeling when HubScore drops, but ultimately what is important is how the world sees your Hubs. When you improve your Hubs you are giving your reader a better experience and they are more likely to read more of your work. When readers like your work, your HubScores are likely to increase. It may take a while, but it will happen. If your focus is your readers and providing the best knowledge that you can give, you can't go wrong. Thanks, Jayne, for bringing up the discussion. It's a good one!
I sent you an email, but thought I'd update you here, too. Alison sent you an email yesterday when she began editing, but I just talked to her and she has finished it and unlocked it. She knew that it was a Hub that would be updated frequently, so she edited quickly!
Thanks and let me know if you're not getting emails from us; she just sent you another.Thanks Robin, all has been resolved. I did get the email, but I did not see this post until this evening. The email I got was from you and a follow up from Alison. Not sure what happened to the original email from Alison to me.
On a side note, I do love the ability to see all of the edit changes, improvements, etc., in the link provided in the email on the edited hub. Well done!
