Are all babies are born "dead in sin" because of Adam's sin, or "original sin?"

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81
PlanksandNailsposted 7 years ago
Are all babies are born "dead in sin" because of Adam's sin, or "original sin?"

Sin is defined as "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

But where there is no law there is no transgression - Romans 4:15

What your parents do, or what Adam did, does it make you a sinner at birth?

If sin is an act of disobedience to the will of God by choice, then why shift the blame?

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. - Ezekiel 18:20

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54
aaslposted 7 years ago
Christ died for all of our sins past, present and future. Children don't carry the sins of the father or mother or any of their ancestors. But they are responsible for the ones they make for themselves.

Take a moment and read one of my hubs and follow me!

-Chris
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1. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Christ died for all of our sins past, present and future."
  This belief can cause an incorrect attitude towards sin. Read the below Hub.
  http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy … n-Doctrine
  I agree with your statement about children.
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2. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins - 1 John 1:9
  
  But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. - 2 Peter 1:9
  
  Future???
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Are you all NEW COVENANT believers? READ Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17! Why Rich would you say that statement is wrong? Ps 103:12-READ!
  GOD SAID "past, present, & future" "I will remember their sins NO MORE" under NEW COVENANT!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Original sin is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
  Excellent study materials in the below link
  http://www.dividingword.net/Original%20Sin/index.htm
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  BIG "PROBLEM:" You study "man," I study GOD (WORD)! ONLY HIS WORD STANDS!
  Forget the other "dung" (aka shit; Phil 3:8)!
  Catholic faith & their "spin offs" is the BIG PROBLEM for those who "wants to" BELIEVE!
  READ WORD & WORD ONLY!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Php 3:8 ....... and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.
  Learn who Jesus is and you can gain Christ and feel the same way that Paul does.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You know what? We are discussing something that DOESN'T EXIST "IF" one is "IN CHRIST" or "A BELIEVER!" “And their sin and iniquities I will remember no more” (Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17)!
  Does WORD LIE?
  Therefore,who doesn't BELIEVE Paul (aka GOD)?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are being silly now, Paul is not (AKA God) but you know that.
  The topic is original sin, read the links provided might help you lose the catholic doctrine you are defending.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Catholic faith? YOU need to stop w/Trinitarian (Catholic) thinking that JESUS is NOT GOD (I Tim 3:16)! Acts 9:15 JESUS (aka GOD) SAID "Paul is MY vessel" Gal 1:12 Paul said "I didn't rec fm man but REVELATION fm JESUS" (HS; Jn14:26) who is GOD!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The topic is original sin, read the links provided might help you lose the catholic doctrine you are defending.
  Your diverting again as usual.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  YOU keep reading links (man) as I continue rec "revelation" fm Holy Spirit who says there is ONE SPIRIT while you believe The Father Son & Holy Spirit r "names" & 3 diff entities AS CATHOLICS!
  Explain Jn 1:14 since u can't understand I Tim 3
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Until you deal with 1timothy 3:16 nothing I say about anything else matters, diversion doe not a lesson teach. If I was God I'd be mad at you for thinking I needed to vindicate myself.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You DEFY HIS WORD "PROVING" U are NOT GOD or "of GOD!" Paul (aka JESUS speaking thru him) "GOD was manifest in the flesh" What part do u want to chg? GOD is "mad at u" for wanting or trying to "change" HIS WORD!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was manifested in the flesh not God,
  
  Why does your god need vindicating?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why do u BLASPHEME against the HOLY SPIRIT (aka GOD)? Did not WORD SAY in I Tim 3:16 "GOD" was manifest in the flesh?" Sure HE was "manifest [AS OF] the Son of the only begotten of the Father" (JESUS CHRIST) but JESUS is another of HIS "GLORIES!"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why does your god need vindicating? You are dodging the question, it is in your bible, "He was vindicated in the spirit", God is spirit and He doesn't need vindicating. Figure that one out.
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17. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry Norine, but you can take your anger and rage somewhere else.
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18. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It's time to say goodbye Norine. No more name calling. Rage and anger with outbursts is not the best way to communicate to others.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich you totally do not understand.
  Example.
  Two perfect cake pans one is Adam
  One is Jesus.
  Adams pan falls get dented. But it still can make cakes , but every cake made has adams dent in the cake . heredity.
  Jesus pan never fell. No dents
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The dented cake pan supports original sin and like I've already said no scripture to support that, only Catholic doctrine. You catholic? What is your sin from the womb? What is John the Baptist sin from the womb?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Lk 1:41 "Jn leapt in his mother's womb bcuz she (& he since attached) was filled with the Holy Spirit!" When Jn was orig conceived, he was conceived in sin until the above! Why can't u "understand" Scripture? No "guidance?" Didn't "WAIT?"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry sex is not a sin. IF you have been taught that it is just one more thing you are going to have to unlearn. You are in bad company Augustine of Hippo thought sex was bad as well.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  See how one "struggles" with TRUTH when didn't "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for POWER (Acts 1:8) to "understand" (Jn 14:26;16:13)? GO BACK & "WAIT!" It's not a matter of READING (II Cor:63) but "understanding" (Prov4:7)!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are not answering questions but adding more confusion. What is your sin at birth? What law did YOOOOOOU break as an babe?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't! Adam did! Rm 5:12 "Death by sin passed on ALL men who are born because of Adam's disobedience so whoever's born are sinful!
  Don't WORRY a child is given MERCY until they come into an "understanding!"
  GOD IS MERCIFUL!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And because of the sin Adam chose to do he died. You also have a choice like Adam to sin or not to sin. From birth you had a choice because you were not born in the womb a sinner.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The sin Adam chose, we “ALL” DIED (“passed on;” Rm5:12)! We have a choice to “BELIEVE or NOT TO BELIEVE” is the ONLY reason we won’t get in (Heb 3:19)! There is “NO SIN” under New Covenant (Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17) ONLY “UNBELIEF” (Heb3:19)!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Death was passed on not sin, if sin was passed on Jesus would have sinned as he was born flesh and blood.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  GOD KNEW man wouldn't believe HE could do this & is why Lk 1:37 says "With GOD "NOTHING'S" impossible!" Lk1:35 says THE HOLY SPIRIT overshadowed Mary (this Holy thing) was conceived w/no sin by the Holy Spirit!
  DON'T LIMIT GOD!
  HE FATHERED HIMSE
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  Michael Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  " HE FATHERED HIMSELF"?! That's what she wrote.
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dashingscorpioposted 7 years ago

Although I don't truly buy into a lot of stuff in the bible.
My guess is the reason why one has to be "born again" is because when you were initially born you were unaware there was a God!
Until one is aware of and acknowledges God's existence you are by default a sinner. Even if you are a Christian you're still a sinner!
Ecclesiastes 7:20
" For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not." (I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Do the best you can.)
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We become sinners once we sin, not before. It is a free-will act of transgression of God's laws that leads to a sin nature by actively and deliberately making sinful choices. We have to accept some responsibility for our lives.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Dash: RT! "until one is aware of & acknowledges GOD you're a sinner" (UNBELIEF)! "Even if you're a [proclaimed] Christian [& don't BELIEVE Gal 1:6-9], you're still a sinner." RT AGAIN! Amen!
  P&N: Not "once we sin" but we're born sinners
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Either men are born with a sinful nature and thus Yahshua was born with a sinful nature, or Yahshua was not born with a sinful nature, which would mean that no human being has ever been born with a sinful nature.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Who "begat" JESUS? HIMSELF (aka GOD; I Tim 3:16/HOLY SPIRIT; Matt 1:20)! Then HOW can you make that statement? Lk 18:27 "Not impossible for GOD!" Are your "teachings" more important than what IS WRITTEN (Rm 5; Ps51:5)? You don't CARE do you?
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is Yahshua God, or is Yahshua's God your God?
  Answer,
  Yahshua stated,‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and your Father, to MY GOD and your God.’” - John 20:17
  
  Grace to you and peace from God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ. - 2 Corinthians 1:2
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "The "Man" JESUS CHRIST was talking while THE SAME SPIRIT was EVERYWHERE else! Can't you wrap your peanut brain around the "Capabilities" (GLORIES) of the CREATOR?
  You've been "brainwashed" by RELIGION (Three entities or "TRINITY") but Jer23:24!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "THE SAME SPIRIT was EVERYWHERE else!"
  Perhaps today you can be civil and explain why the "same spirit" your god would need vindicating in your KJV version of 1timothy 3:16
  Jer 23:24 has nothing to with the conversation.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  EVERYWHERE ELSE? Jer 23:24 says HE "fills heaven & earth" SO "EVERYWHERE ELSE" FOOL!
  "Vindicating?" That's your problem! You don't KNOW the POWER of GOD! You've placed HIM "in a box" via "the letter" (II Cor 3:6)!
  ISAIAH 14:27! READ IT!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  lashing out with irrelevant scripture quotes doesn't answer why your bible says God needs vindicating. God fills the heavens and the earth not His son Jesus, the one that needed to be vindicated in the spirit.
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ptosisposted 7 years ago

I don't believe that babies are born with sin. That's silly. The Catholic idea of it is why the immaculate conception is about Mary, Jesus' mother who had to had a 'perfect vessel', for how can perfection come from imperfection?

Anyway, it's all Catholic stuff, can go round and round and round on that one.

The Jews explain it with the story of Lilith, (the first Eve).
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Romans 5:12 states that all became sinners because "all sinned," not because Adam made them guilty of his sin. He brought sin into the world, and that is the way all become sinners. Sin is a choice, not that of Adam or parents.
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2. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You're misinterpreting Rm 5:12 "By one man sin entered into the world & death by sin: & so death passed upon all men for [so] that all have sinned" otherwise Ps 51:5 LIED "I was shapen in iniquity..."
  Dash RT "We must be born again" (Jn 3:3)!
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No misinterpretation. Yahshua partook of the same nature as every other human being. The fact that he never sinned proves he did not possess a sinful nature thus proving that not one baby has ever been born into this world a sinner.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No HE didn't! What other "man" hasn't sinned(Rm3:22-23)? How can HOLY (GOD) be compared to "man" (Lk18:27)GOD (aka Holy Spirit) conceived HIMSELF(I Tim3:16)& ain't NOTHING unholy about MY GOD (PURE; Prov 30:5)!
  You're upsetting me (Ps 139:22)!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  1Timothy3:16
  Christ God's promise finally came in the flesh. Christ was vindicated by the spirt, (God doesn't need vindicating), Christ was seen by angels, and man (God made angels and was already seen by angels) Christ take up, God was already up.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You FOOL! If GOD SAID there is ONE SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6) & HE "fills the heaven & earth" (Jer 23:24),why would u say this?GOD "Promised" HE would come thru prophets Is 7:14;9:6; Micah5:2;Zech9:9;Is 53:3-7;50:6; Zech12:10 & HE DID (I Tim 3:16
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I have explained 1 timothy as simply as I can, if you don't want to believe it flooding your answers with more scriptures will not change what 1 timothy 3:16 actually means.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I Tim 3:16 means EXACTLY what IT SAYS: "GOD was "manifest" in the flesh" as JESUS CHRIST for who else was "justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED unto Gentiles, believed on IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY!"
  U IGNORANT FOOL!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Was vindicated in the Spirit"
  The God I serve does not need to be vindicated I'm sorry to hear the god you worship does.
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  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nice NW the Bible speaks of outcome to blunt calling names, so let both religious and secular world know that 'whoever says you FOOL (moros= a wicked reprobate, destitute of all spirituality), shall be unable to escape the hell (Gehenna ) of fire.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If "man" is IGNORANT to HIS WORD; Paul (aka JESUS speaking thru him) called them "FOOLS!" Gal 3:1 "O FOOLISH Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the TRUTH..." I use the word FOOL in the same context to "bewitched individuals"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You need to bridle your anger, don't blame Paul you are not Paul and you are not talking to Galatians. Back to original sin, or you can take a stab at why your God needs to be vindicated. Jesus became flesh and he was vindicated. Not God.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  When u CHANGE WORD remember what Rev 22:18-19 says! Sorry for u!
  Again, I Tim 3:16 says GOD (Did u hear?) "GOD" was manifest in flesh" & there's NOTHING u can do about IT! Jn 1:14 says "& the WORD (GOD) was made flesh...&we beheld HIS "G
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry Norine, but your anger, arrogance and ignorance towards others will no longer be accepted in this discussion.
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If your bible says God was manifested in the flesh keep reading and figure out why God needs to vindicated in the spirit. Your bible (KJV) is a bad translation in this particular issue. KJV translators were "Trinity" folks.
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jerome mistranslated into Latin as “in whom all sinned,” of Rom 5:12. Greek construction eph’ ho (i) (ἐφ᾽ ᾧ) as ‘in whom,’ rather than its correct meaning in this context of ‘because.’ This is the reason that Augustine and you make your claims.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Did they change John 1:14; Is 9:6; 43:10-11; Jn 8:58; Jn 10:30-33; Col 2:9; Heb 1:8-9; Jn 20:28...+
  I've given Scripture after Scripture! Your "translations" couldn't have changed ALL! If so, you need to talk to the Holy Spirit!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Until you understand 1timothy 3:16 there is no need for you to kick up your scripture count.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There's "no need" to BELIEVE all those Scriptures (WORD)?
  Who are you SATAN?
  I Cor 10:21 says "Ye CANNOT drink he cup of the Lord, & the cup of devils; ye CANNOT be partakers of the Lord's table, & of the table of devils."
  Did they chg that
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No one doubts the word, it is your keyboard that is in error. No discernment when and when not to quote something. It is good to know something it is better to known when to tell someone that information.
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Michael-Milecposted 7 years ago
God the Creator is not sending sinners to the planet earth.
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
  If one is BORN,
  he is BORN a sinner or Bible LIED (Rm 5; Ps 51:5)!
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, you might want to re-evaluate your Augustine doctrine "proof" texts by doing a little more research on your presuppositions.
  
  http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbs02.htm
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  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting Scriptures Norine,read and understand; "the Old Testament contains no theory of the origin of sin" -
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  P&N would you please make a "link" for discussion! 250 characters not enough!
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” - Matthew 19:14
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  RIGHT! They are "born sinners" & they have to "come" also! ONLY JESUS KNOWS the "accountable age" of a child for HE "sees" the heart! One child maybe 5 & understand as another 12 before understanding!
  Check David out in II Sam 12:21-23!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  David was praying that God would heal the son that God said he was going to take, this scripture has nothing to do with original sin. The sin was David taking another mans wife, that didn't make the resulting child a sinner.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why do u address me? Didn't your daddy tell me to get off "causing his brother to stumble?" The discussion is "born sinner?" II Sam 12:23 "Why should I cont to fast? can I bring him back? I SHALL GO TO HIM (in heaven) but he shall not return to me!"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  2Sa 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
  This has nothing to do with the child being a born sinner.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It has to do w/a child is "forgiven" until he comes "into the knowledge" or have "understanding" of GOD!
  You can't "twist" WORD SATAN!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There is no word twisting going on, however I do see a total lack of reading comprehension. When you can come out and play like adults should and leave your name calling at home where it belongs I'll consider talking further with you.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I have characteristics of JESUS! "Hypocrite - FOOL" (Matt 23) as HE was speaking to your brothers (Scribes & Pharisees)!
  When u get off bottle & are able to take "meat," (I Cor 3:2;Jn16:12) then we can "comprehend" on the same level "HS leve
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  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  NW Once the living Christ will reveal himself to you, you would let Him to express himself in loving manner instead the ugliness of "I Norine Williams"...
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Good words Michael.
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, no more name calling Norine.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes babies have Adams flaw of genetic imperfections which comes in many forms some times birth defects. Yet the baby did not sin .Adam did this to us.
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT, I'm still having problems with the genetic connection thing. If you are comfortable with that fine as long as you realize an infant, deformed or not isn't born sinning.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  MM: *I* "repeat" HIS WORD! "Ugliness?" Take it up w/HIM! U forgot Matt 23?
  K&T: U forgot Jn 9:2-3 "Neither [blind] man nor parents sinned" but for the Glory of God?" Yes Adam!
  Rich: Baby didn't sin-Adam caused us to be "sinful BY NATURE" (Eph2:
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The spirit that directs your ugliness to posters doesn't come from God.
  Correct babies don't sin they are not born a sinner. Finally
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  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  NW, you are "outsmarting" even yourself by talking too much... My concern would be WHAT does Jesus have out of all this. How about the sinners who might searching for the Kingdom & righteousness? For you Matt 25-"whatever you didi for one..Udidit
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stas karimovposted 7 years ago
As we know, the truth is in Bible. And it says that only God is objectively happy. Thus, God knows everything. God can do anything. God is the Strongest in the Universe. God can distance bad from Himself and attract good. Therefore, to reach untroubled life we have to remove the four main reasons of sufferings from our life. Here they are:
1) a lack of knowledge;
2) limited resource;
3) the conflict of interests;
4) the inability to select our environment.
Anyone (!) on planet Earth is a sinner. There is personal karma. I'm writer, I have written five books. Not every person on planet Earth is writer. There is social karma. You (Americans) have the president. Belarusians have the dictator. Belarus has banned my books because my books have only truth!!! Belarusians do not have the right to speak. But ALL people have a choice. We can commit a sin and we can make a virtue. Every child is unlike Jesus Christ. And this distinction belongs only to the child. Every child wants something for himself. It is not a sin - this is imperfection! The crowd can not get into Heaven. God carefully examining everyone who wants to get into Heaven!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  There was no difference between us or Jesus once we were born, it is the choices we made later in life that separated us from God, choices that Jesus when tempted in every way did not chose, resulting in a sinless life.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely why do you start me from 393 AD
  I am way before that error.
  Besides any human no matter how intelligent is still imperfect from Adam .
  Means they are limited , they error, they die.
  Not a 100 % source to rely on.
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  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  YHWH says he made the heavens and earth in 6 days, Allah says he made them in 6 days... I think what we need is a good old fashioned TNA caged wrestling match between the two, and settle this dispute honorably. The 1st one bleeding and pinned loses.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely I like discussion, not debate.
  The main point is truth. I value that.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well you sure don't action like JESUS if not "debate" When one withstands another it is to oppose with determined effort Gal 2:11 "But when Peter came to Antioch, I WITHSTOOD HIM TO THE FACE, BECAUSE HE WAS TO BLAME."
  Is that a "discussion?"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are not Paul and don't have his discernment. This is not Antioch or Galatia. What you read as dogmatic confrontation was more than likely a conversation without hair pulling and the lot.
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Missing Linkposted 7 years ago
kids get a pass until they are old enough to reason.

remember also about God's forgiveness....if one repents, etc.
Jesus came, among other reasons, to take the hit for us, he came for the forgiveness of sins

we are born into a fallen state because of original sin
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Amen! IF we BELIEVE!
  
  P&N: "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies" (Ps 58:3)!
  
  IT IS WRITTEN!
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2. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be silly. Psalm 58:3 is written is in figurative language. You should know babies don't speak lies when they are born because babies can't speak yet.
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3. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  U can ask a child if he ate the cake w/proof of cake on mouth & he'll LIE & say NO! Did u teach him? NO! We're born LYING & u know it!
  No matter HOW MANY FACTS (Scriptures) are given, U "sink your heels in deeper!"
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4. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be silly. We don't give cake to babies as soon as they are born and question them. I suggest doing a study on figurative language in Scripture.
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5. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It is your knowledge of the scripture is what we are trying to help you with. You refuse to study the several links provided. You haven't resolve your misunderstanding of 1 Timothy 3:16.
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6. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You can't "help me" with another TWISTED "man" interpretation of WORD! Did I not say "a child!" Since MEN don't know about raising a child (SAD), ask ur wife for they LIE & parents didn't teach! Resolve your understanding of Jn 1:14???
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7. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If you won't look than you don't know. Your comments are unfounded.
  Now you want to discuss a child (not babies in the womb) and men not knowing anything about raising them. you are diverting again.
  My understanding? 1Timothy 3:16 work on it.
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8. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  U guys have character of Scribes & Pharisees (SATAN/hate WORD)!
  If u look back, I said, "U can ask a child..." The FOOL P&N said "baby!"
  "Your understanding?"
  Explain Jn 1:14??? + Jn 8:58;10:30-33;Matt 1:23;
  Is 9:6;43:10-11;Rev1:17-18;2
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9. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are name calling, Before you say Jesus did it, you are not Jesus and we are not Pharisees. Resolve how you are going to apologize to God for saying He needs to be vindicated. You still don't get 1 Timothy 3:16
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10. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  ANYTIME I give HIS WORD JESUS is talking (Jn 1:1;14)! You are SATAN for I Cor 10:21 says "You can't eat at the Lord's table & the devil's!" You DEFY WHAT IS WRITTEN; you are SATAN!
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11. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why does your god need vindicating? Study I know you can figure out where you went wrong.
  Resolve 1timothy 3:16 then you might understand Jn 1:14
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12. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  So I Tim 3:16 & Jn 1:14 BOTH LIED? BOTH said "GOD was manifest in the flesh!" EITHER GOD LIED or "YOU ARE A LIAR" from HELL (SATAN)!
  Now "try & FIGURE OUT where u went wrong" (BLASPHEMING DEMON)!
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13. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Your same bible (your WORD) say He was justified in the spirit, God doesn't need to be justified so perhaps your bible should say he(Jesus) was made flesh, a man would need to be justified in the spirit.Jesus was a man.
  I know you can figure this out
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14. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry Norine, but your words are angry loud and hostile. Please move on somewhere else to vent.
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Misfit Chickposted 7 years ago

Babies are absolutely NOT born 'dead in sin' - sin, death, hell and the deliverance from it through various rituals were all ancient pagan concepts (including baptism & the trinity). These are the things Jesus Christ came to free souls from - so that people could see themselves for what they really are: human beings, 'god in the flesh' just like him.

The Roman State version of Christianity sort of hijacked that message in order to unite the many rebellious 'pagan' religions into one increasingly-manageable mass. Obviously, not everyone has realized this increasingly-accepted version of Christianity. It has been coming into fruitation more and more in the past few decades since the Internet became a hit.

Both dogmatic Atheists & Christians are highly-advised to do a little more research; because neither one of your perspectives is entirely accurate.
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It is true false pagan Catholic concepts and doctrines have infiltrated and hi-jacked what is called "Christianity," and that is why infant baptism is mandated for babies to "cover" them for being "damned" from birth. Of course this notion is false.
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2. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I Tim 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, & to come into the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH." How can an infant "Come into the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH?" Get real!
  II Sam 12:21-23 David KNOWS "child in the arms of GOD" hadn't reached understanding!
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3. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  IIsam12:21-23 has nothing to do with the child being a born sinner. However the child was like what David said in Psalms 51:5, Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Bathsheba and dad had sinned the child not so.
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4. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  ALL kids "forgiven" IF they don't have the capability to "come into the knowledge" so says II Sam 12:21-23! U can't "twist" TRUTH! Rm 5:12 "DEATH (sin) passed upon ALL men..." Ps 51:5 & 58:3 say SO!
  You LIE (SATAN)!
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5. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are not being civil, and care nothing about what the scripture is really saying I'll leave you to your misguided name calling.
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6. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Both Catholics & Christians have the 'salvation' message of Jesus seriously twisted through 'the trinity', baptism and the resurrection. It is the reason why so many have deconverted into kabbalah. Do your research - Jesus REAL message is powerfu
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7. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with your statements about babies. I agree with your comments about Catholics and Christians. I have studied your referenced religion and don't agree with it.
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8. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You guys are calling GOD A LIAR! I started to write a HUB (flesh) entitled "I'll kick your A**!" but HS stopped me! Well, when unsaved IF u talked about my father (FATHER) the way y'all do, that's what I would have done!
  I feel the same NOW!
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9. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, no one has called God a liar. It is the spirit of anger, hostility and ignorance that has clouded your mind. Repent from your Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine.
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10. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  IF you don't BELIEVE WORD, you do! How many Scriptures did I give testifying that GOD is ONE SPIRIT & came in the GLORY OF or "AS OF" JESUS CHRIST? You don't accept WORD; therefore, call my FATHER - A LIAR!
  Now how do I feel (Ps 139:22)?
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11. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Repent from your Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine!
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12. 0
  jonnycomelatelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Just accept Norines psychotic rantings with a pinch of salt and a good laugh. That's about the best they will do for you.
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13. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  P&N and Jonny, as scattered as Norine seems to be - she neither needs to repent (judge as much as she does, much?) nor is she psychotic - shes impassioned for good reason. "Spirit" exists even if her diehard focus is on a 'wrong' salvation messag
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14. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I love u girl for u know TRUTH but have allowed Satan (defying Scripture doing Holy Spirit's job) enter his playground (mind)! Spirit already KNOW what u r "Researching!" We teach same but diff routes; man v Spirit w/exception of no HELL! Heb 13:8!
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15. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You know, for some dumb reason I love you, too - I used to freakin BE you; which is why I stick up for you, sometimes. You're at the end of one road & ready to take off onto another - but, you're still stuck in muck. No need to worry about me.
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16. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is 42:8 "I am the LORD, that is my name: and I WILL NOT give to another, neither my praise to graven images." You see? I KNOW GOD! HE doesn't want anyone doing HIS JOB or "sharing HIS Glory!" Please STOP! I love you!
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17. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich all humans have Adams Dent.
  Jesus as perfect adopted Adams. Imperfect offsprings. because he wants us to continue life.
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18. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You can't tell the these guys NOTHING they don't believe what WORD SAYS just what they "feel" & when not in agreement, you stand in danger of being deleted causing others to "STUMBLE" which is AGAINST HIS WORD TOO!
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19. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, figure out why your God needs vindicating before you start tossing stones. Quoting WORD of word out of context is bad. Come on girls share with the forum what sin/sins did you do at 2 minutes old?
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20. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You speaking of your "god" who needs "vindicating?" You have Bible that says yours does? You got to stop believing those "translations" & rely on the HOLY SPIRIT then you become Christ-like! I knew there was a problem!
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21. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The holy spirit make up that deception? You are the big 1Tim3:16 person with her KJV saying God was manifested in the flesh, vindicated etc.I asked you to explain, forgot all ready? Must be your infant sins catching up.
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22. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Holy Spirit doesn't LIE (Num 23:19)! Translations do! Did they "twist" Jn 1:14; Lk 1:35; Jn14:9-11; Jn 20:28; Titus 2:13; Rev 1:8; 22:13; Is 9:6; 43:10-11; 44:6 2Pet 1:1; Is 44:24; Jn 1:3; Col 1:16; Jn 8:24; Jn 10:30-33; Heb1:8-9;Col 2:9;Phil2:5-7+
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23. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  One at a time Norine. What is wrong with 1tim3:16 in your KJV.
  Original sin, what was your in the womb or shortly after birth?
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24. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is that all u can take; one @ a time? U study! U should know these! U studying wrong thing (foreign languages) & not the most foreign of all languages to u - Holy Spirit! Get w/HIM & you'll "understand!"
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25. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I see that your answer to incorrect assumption about scripture is to run to another, I can understand this. I also understand the way you eat an elephant is one bite at a time.
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26. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: if you want to believe man's "translation" of a bible (1Tim3:16) vs Holy Spirit & want to believe "your interpretation" of WORD vs what IS WRITTEN (Rm 5:12), your "choice!" "ALL" have to stand before judgment seat of Christ, baby 2! Why?
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27. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The False Original sin doctrine is like knocking over a domino, what follows is many incorrect beliefs. These seem like an elephant but are just one misunderstanding upon another. You are right it is your choice.
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frumpletonposted 7 years ago
Children are born innocent. They have no sin because they are too young to know the difference between good and evil. If God punished an innocent child, I don't think I would like God very much
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Children are born "sinners" yet ONLY GOD KNOWS what age a child has "knowledge" of HIM; for HE "looks @ the heart" (II Sam 16:7)!
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2. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  frumpleton,
  amen
  
  Norine
  There is no yet, you commenting on what you think God knows, and combining it with a false statement that children are born sinners doesn't make it so. Your scripture reference has nothing to do with the conversation.
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3. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Children are "born sinners" or Ps 51:5; 58:3 & Rm 5 LIED! Rm 5:12 "...and so DEATH (aka sin) passed upon "ALL" men (babies too)! However, when 1 gains "KNOWLEDGE" (aka understanding), they're accountable & could be @ age of 3! ONLY GOD KNOWS
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4. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  None of your scripture references say children are born sinners. You are reading into what you want the scripture to say. Even your KJV doesn't say what you are claiming. Study the links, they will free you from your doctrines of men. (Augustine)
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5. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You study "links" from man but I'll stick to WORD!
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6. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You clearly don't understand the word so you might want to let "man" help you out.
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7. 93
  Glenis Rixposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Frumpleton-voted up
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8. 0
  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The truth of an automobile maker's claims can't be evaluated simply by that company's claims... it takes an OUTSIDE unbiased perspective to evaluate such. THAT is where the bible falls terribly short. FACTS don't support scripture--using term loosely
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9. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I use Bill Gates as "an example!" If he has enough resources ($) to gather "FACTS" and NOT "waste his time" worshiping GOD, he would've done so! He is "intelligent" enough to KNOW, this is a SPIRITUAL journey which doesn't rely on "FACTS!"
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10. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  For example Nudely a cake has basic ingredients no matter what people add.
  You may add your own touches. But the cake is still under the added changes .
  The theme is still there in the bible and has not changed.
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Rich kelleyposted 7 years ago
James 3:9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;

God doesn’t make sinners from the womb, but man depending on the environment he is born into has many walks of life to select from. Some of the life choices we make do not please the God of the scriptures. The world today with all the knowledge increase, is able to talk into or out of almost any situation they want to get behind. We could have been made without choices but that is not what happened.

Even students of the bible chose not to agree with one another (often). Some matters just don’t matter, yet some if accepted may explain the lack of obedience to God. Being born/create by God as a sinner already gives the unrepentant person all the rationalizing doctrine they need to remain in their sin. They are born that way it is not their fault. This born that way that started in the church is now a catch phrase to explain lifestyle choices.

When the disciple of Christ listens to the words of Christ when he says “go and sin no more”, there is no follow-up claiming we were born that way, no can do. By faith we believe and follow Jesus, by faith we are able to go and sin no more. By faith we know God is not making us one way and then demanding we act another. There are many links available to refute the doctrinal teachings of Augustine of Hippo one only has to do a little research.
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  How many say, "I was born this way." There is even a song about it. This is the anthem of those who make excuses for their carnal behaviours blaming God that this was how they were made rather than the choices they made.
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2. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Canavan-Van Bogaert-Bertrand is an example .please view pictures .
  Some babies do not phyically show Adams heridity. But you can see those babies who obviously do. We are talking sin in heridity we all have it.
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3. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  I'd don't buy the connection you are trying to make sorry. Sin is transgression of the law, what sin as a newborn did you commit? Christ was a flesh and blood infant what was his sin?
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4. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit which I've given Scripture several times & John "leaped in mother's womb" or filled w/Holy Spirit AFTER conception! JESUS is ONLY "man" born sinless due to Holy Spirit conception! I pray u "leap" & u wi
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5. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Not being able to understand that God doesn't need to be vindicated leaves me with not much confidence in your cut and paste witnessing. I'd still like to know the infant sins you were born with.?
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6. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Again, u listen to "man's" translation stating "GOD needs to be vindicated" & believe if u want to! I listen to the Holy Spirit (aka GOD/WORD) & HE SAID; HE Fathered HIMSELF(Lk 1:35) & "manifested HIMSELF in the flesh"(I Tim 3:16)!
  2 pl
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7. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You have quoted over 100 scriptures in this question most all without understanding and out of context. Your dogmatic 1tim3:16 quoting is wrong. I know it speaks of Jesus being manifested not God.
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8. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  From the Heavenly Father's info as written
  Ps 51:5 Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains, And in sin my mother conceived me.
  This is so clear.
  Sex between Husband and wife is no sin.
  But that has nothing to do heredity .
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9. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
  This says nothing of Davids sin it is talking about the sin of his mother. (Clearly)
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10. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  lol ! as Rich said your zipper don't work anymore and my ! MY what big teeth you have my deer !
  And Rich My what big eyes you have ! lol
  You saw the zipper !
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11. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why must we be "born again" if sinless? All we have to do is live sin free & saved because born sinless? Why were we DEAD in sin (Eph 2:1)? We've done nothing wrong & sinless fm birth so why? We don't need Jesus; done no wrong after birth why
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12. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Sinless at birth, God doesn't make sinners, we decide to sin. We decide later after birth having been tempted to sin, not as infant.
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13. 60
  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  each and every single comment is correct and right. Right ?
  Who can understand God the creator then, when babies are born imperfect?! ? Exodus twenty, five.
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14. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What I am trying to get understood is this point.
  Say your have to copy a photo on a copy machine. What ever is on the original will also copy on on other copies . Adam and Eve had no children before they did wrong.
  The were main humans not copies.
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15. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We have been copied perfectly as God intends, with a choice to sin, if we were born a sinner there would be no choice. Adams/Eves choice resulted in death. Christ choice resulted in life. What is our choice. Life with blood for repentant bad choices.
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16. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich do you believe the scripture as written ?King David says !Ps 51:5 Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.
  Job says !Job 14:4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean? There is not one.
  Very clear !
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17. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why we DO have choice 1) born sinner, 2) come into “understanding,” 3)Choose to leave sin by BELIEVING!
  Our UNBELIEF results in "SPIRITUAL" DEATH (Heb 3:19)!
  I BELIEVE (Gal 1:6-9)!!!
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18. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT what religion do you get your original sin from? What scripture translation are you quoting? Spend some time reading at the below link.
  http://www.dividingword.net/Original%20Sin/index.htm
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KingdomComeposted 7 years ago
PandN- A Child born does not inherit the sins of the fathers (parents) as a results of the initial sin at the time of Adam and Eve. However, we do inherit the punishment of (physical) death as a result of the initial sin from Adams. We all die (physically). Jesus Christ died on the cross as a human being as a result of the punishment imposed at the time of Adam. But note that Jesus Christ took our sins to the cross even though He himself was sinless.

The initial sin in the time of Adam was due to failing God COMMAND not to eat of the tree of knowledge.

It should be clear that Death was not impose on man for eating of the tree of knowledge in and of itself, but the fact that both Adam violated the COMMAND not to eat from the tree of knowledge, Note in Genesis 3:11(NKJV) which states: 11 And He said, "Who told you that you where naked. Have you eaten from the tree of which I COMMANDED you that you should not eat?"

God clearly gives a COMMAND (LAW) in Genesis 2:16-17 which states:16 And the Lord God COMMANDED the man, saying.; " Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat;17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, YOU SHALL NOT eat, for in the day that you eat of it you SHALL surely die."

To make what I just said very clear it states in Romans 5:13 (NKJV) 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is NOT imputed when there is no law.

It should be made clear that if God had not have given this command and man ate of the tree of knowledge, then death would not have been imposed on mankind from God. Remember, where there is no law , there is no sin.

This is my final point, read in Romans 5.18 (NKJV) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense JUDGEMENT CAME TO ALL MEN, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man'srighteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

I believe it is important for those to read Romans 8:2-3.

Great question and God bless
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  True, Adam's sin was his own; no inherited sin (Ezekiel 18:20). Sin is an action, Paul explains this further in Romans 7, also backed up by 1 John 3:4 as transgression of the law. We will ALL be judged for our own sins unless we repent of them.
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2. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, I'm coming to realize that English may not be your first language. Hostility, ignorance, arrogance and anger makes for an obvious communication barrier. You have been told that your comments are not welcome. Put this into Google translate.
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3. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The sinner and the righteous both die. One's condition when they die determines what will happen later. Because sin entered the world by choice the unborn child is given the same choice to sin or be righteous and blameless. Christ chose righteousness
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4. 0
  jonnycomelatelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Believe whatever you wish to. But it is all, obviously, a load of superstitious nonsense to think a fictitious, human-designed and Trumped-up "god" is going to take revenge upon the likeness of "his" being for being totally independent.
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Wakerraposted 7 years ago
"Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me." - Moroni 8:8

We believe that until one reaches the age of accountability, at 8 years old, little children are alive in Christ. "Little children cannot repent; wherefore, it is awful wickedness to deny the pure mercies of God unto them, for they are all alive in him because of his mercy." Moroni 8:19
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1. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I don't agree with "Moroni" but I do believe that children are not born sinners. Picking a specific age for something to happen is making a lot of assumptions so that is more than likely not right either.
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2. 53
  frumpletonposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think God wastes his time thinking about sin all the time. He's got a lot of work to do, like running the universe.
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3. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I agree God is not the one that needs to think about sin, we are.
  
  Luk 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
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4. 0
  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T, hopefully you can find this... I can't answer u on thread where u asked why 393 AD. The bible that you use today is ancestor of that first bible... previously the 66 semi-related books were not bound in a single volume.
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5. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You guys r worrying about the wrong thgs! Book not real=Holy Spirit SAID HE WOULD "teach all thgs" so u DON'T BELIEVE (Heb 3:19)!
  Sin="I will remember their sins no more" (Heb10:17) so AGAIN you DON'T BELIEVE (Heb 3:19)!
  "UNBELIEF" then Lk12:5!
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6. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We are believers we believe you know not what you cut and paste. One thing at a time, vindication, do a study why God doesn't need it.
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7. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't u try to "understand" the list of Scriptures I've given but possibly can't since you display you didn't "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for HELP from the Holy Spirit (Jn 14:26;16:13)! Those who did don't have problem "understanding" although CAPPED!
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8. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
  Do you believe this?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  IT IS WRITTEN + other "witness Scriptures!" I've given Jn 1:14 "And the Word (GOD) was made flesh..." What part of that don't u understand? Is 9:6 "He shall be called ...MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING "FATHER"..." What part of that don't u understand?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'll take that as "OK Rich you got me I have been believing KJV in an area I should have been questioning". To use one of your catch phrases study Norine study.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nope! Satan got u using his strategy (your mind) to misinterpret Scripture justifying w/man's translations vs Holy Spirit! Not lol!
  GO BACK find Holy Spirit to HELP! Ask HIM for "guidance" w/PURE HEART! Can u?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You need to stop the satan concerns you have already shown a lack of discernment, your thoughts and emotions are not the Holy Spirit but nice try.
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nationconsposted 7 years ago
Obviously not. I believe in bible but this are all superstitious beliefs
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich if Jesus was of Adams seeds he could not pay any human life out of death Adam could not save them or their offspring ,a perfect substitute was created by the Heavenly Father ! His son became the second Adam.1 Cor 15:35
  He adopted us .
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  What were your sins at birth? I had none, not one and I was not conceived via the Holy Spirit.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You keep DEFYING SCRIPTURE!
  WORD is GOD/GOD is HOLY SPIRIT/YOU DEFY! YOU BLASPHEME!
  Rm 5:12 "...by one man (Adam) sin ENTERED THE WORLD, & DEATH by SIN; (LISTEN) & SO "DEATH" PASSED UPON "ALL" MEN, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED!" What part don'
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I already told you quoting romans out of context saying it says something it doesn't, will not make you right.
  What are your sins in the womb? Just one real sin, not implication by out of context scripture.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We don't need a Savior based on you guys "interpretation!" All we have to do is be "morally" right & no sin since we're born sinless, right? Why did Christ bother to come & die?Why were we DEAD in our trespasses & sins(Eph 2:1)if no sin?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The difference being that we allowed temptation to be conceived and birth sin. Christ didn't. The unblemished lamb became a sin offering accepted by God for us. Disciples that follow Christ can do the same. Eph 2:1 is not referenced to babies.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  NO! Adam "allowed temptation to be conceived and birth sin" which "passed to "ALL" men" (Rm 5:12)!
  Eph 2:2-3 "children of disobedience" Who was "initially" disobedient? (v3) "fulfilling desires of flesh & mind; & were BY NATURE children of w
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The Sin of Adam birthed death not sin. Paul's letter to the Ephesians was not sent to babies, read it like the adults the letter was sent to. Even a reading of KJV doesn't say or imply babies.
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helenstuartposted 7 years ago
In the New Testament, Man was Ruled by Law, and I don't know anything about all that, because my Grandmother taught me to read the red letters in her King James Bible. (The red letters are the ones that Jesus spoke) Those letters don't say anything about dead alive babies. I think you're just trying to get some pro abortion conversation going. I grew up and went way beyond the red letters and purchased "The Other Bible" if I knew how to use my Amazon links, I would sure advertise that. It has parts of the dead sea scrolls and "books" of the Bible that were thrown away as recently as King James (Mary Stuart's son) I got a great deal of knowledge and comfort from it, and from my own spiritual quest and evidence right from the HOLY. Everything created is Holy, how about man and woman who are a little bit higher than the angels? I think that is the dumbest and most painful question that I have ever seen. You know King James did not live so long ago, and even then the Catholics had heavily added to and detracted from the Bible. And the reason there are 4 books now, is that King James left only 4 because of the 4 directions of the "wind" or something, North, South, East and West. Hey, isn't East West the Name of Kim kardashian's baby? It could be a whole DaVinci code thing going on. As if that weren't the stupidest thing ever. IT WAS A PAINTING! Leonardo Davinci didn't know for sure what the dinnerware looked like. He used his ARTISTIC LISCENSE. Just like I am using mine by not changing my MISSPELLINGS.
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Even aborted babies are innocent. In Jeremiah 19:4 the human sacrifices of children to Baal are called the "blood of the innocent."
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Grandmothers are wise. Mine was my spiritual teacher, too. When I first started to come out of Christianity; I was led to stick to Jesus 'red letter' words. There is much truth in there & so much healing. Jesus & God R both real - 'salvation'
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Planks birth defects is from being imperfect.
  It's a mark in the genes .
  We all have some genetic flaws.
  Some visible some not visible.
  But it started from Adam. He flawed his offspring.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T That's NOT what Scripture says Disciples asked "Who sinned blind man or parents?" JESUS SAID "Neither, but the works of GOD should be made manifest in him" (Jn 9:2-3)!
  However, DEATH via sin did come by Adam (Rm 5:12) & "ALL born sinners
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (KJV)
  does not say babies are born sinners.
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Benjimesterposted 7 years ago
To think that God would cast a baby into hell is ludicrous. I think we can trust He has a plan. Paul is pretty clear that children are sanctified by their parents:

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 Corinthians 7:14
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your comment Benji. God does not cast babies into hell.
  You were blameless in your ways FROM THE DAY YOU WERE CREATED, till unrighteousness was found in you - Ezekiel 28:15
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Who was Ezekiel talking to? A cherub (an unearthly being) not a man (Ezk 28:14;16)!
  You've got to stop taking Scripture "out of context!"
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ezekiel is speaking in figurative (metaphorical) language to the Prince and the King of Tyre who represent the people of Tyre/Phonaecia. They are both represented as mortal men (dying, turned to ashes). Ezekiel 28:9-10; 28:18-19.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus DIED (flesh) as the cherub (an unearthly being; not man28:14;16)28:9-10; 18-19!
  You see? That's the "GLORY" of GOD in operation as with JESUS CHRIST!
  Heb 13:8 "JESUS CHRIST the same yesterday, today & forever" still operating in "GLORIE
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus died bcuz he was nailed to a cross since they didn't like his message that people didn't NEED pagan rituals. The 'belief' he was making peeps AWARE of was about our KoG/christos within - not HIM, directly. Corrected interpretation - find it!
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus a cherub??? You are being nonsensical, plus you are cherry-picking without surrounding context. Hebrews 13:8 is about the FAITH of Jesus Christ that is the same yesterday today and forever. Read the previous verse 13:7 and it becomes obvious.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say that! I said "a cherub"- The King in Ezk (an unearthly being) was as JESUS-seen in flesh but "an unearthly being!" Scripture LIES? Mal 3:6 "I the LORD do NOT CHANGE..."Heb13:8; Jm 1:17!
  BELIEVE WORD-not *me*
  GOD operates in "GLORIES!"
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, we are all 'cherubs' - angels with human bodies, exactly like he is/was. Every. single. one. of. us. That was Jesus' original message, that we are 'just like him', but we don't realize it - because religion keeps us in the dark about it.
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I do believe Scripture, but not presupposing your twisted Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine into it. In Malachi 3:6, It is Yahweh (God) who is speaking, not Yahshua. Check your Hebrew concordance. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
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10. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  P&N: I asked u to create a link! You've GOT TO BELIEVE SCRIPTURE ="ONE" SPIRIT not Catholic thinking (3)!
  MF: Rt killed bcuz chg'd their "religion!" BUT "unless" we BELIEVE what HE taught, KoG not activated w/in us but "lies DORMANT" as in unblv
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Why talk in gibberish? You make no sense. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace - 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. - 2 Timothy 1:7
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You've both proven that you have that book embedded in your mind. NT was written over 300 years after Christ's death; and the church destroyed & replaced ALL 'original' texts with their own pagan ones - look up 'Imperial Cult' & how gospels h
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  CAT: Don't u BELIEVE? Your comments do NOT display BELIEF! Not in a Book, but the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT to "reveal" ALL THINGS? Don't you BELIEVE in GOD?
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What that means is that the Principal can record each year and write what he thinks is most remarkable or most remembered in his school files.
  Our Heavenly Father gives us just enough info from the past as references to guide us
  If we value him.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Benji: I Cor 7:14 *1* of the couple MUST be a BELIEVER n Gospel of Christ* (Gal 1:6-9) or not married & "unclean" children!
  Now where does that leave MOST?
  If neither parent BELIEVER* & children "unclean" how can they be "sinless?"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  With your incorrect foundation everything you try to build falls apart with just a glance at your claims. The false "man's doctrine" of original sin has blinded you. We are trying to do what Ananias did for Paul but you won't permit. Your choice.
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17. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Misinterpretation" of Scripture can do NOTHING for me! I don't look at LINKS, listen to MEN, go to SEMINARIES, listen to PREACHERS, PASTORS, PRIESTS, POPES nor FOLLOW TRADITION (as u can see) BUT Gal 1:12 "...by "revelation" from JESUS CHRIST!"
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  Benjimesterposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, I understand that Paul is talking about the children of believers. But what does that do to our theology if some children are already holy just because of the faith of one parent? It just shows that God has a plan greater than He's revealed
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Kiss andTalesposted 7 years ago
Ec 7:1 A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth.

Da 12:1“During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.
A baby has a clean slate of right and wrong.
That's different.
But his genetic make up is marked with imperfections .which means he will sin and his body will reflect he is under Adams sentence of death , means death can happen to us all and does.
Babies can not make choices about dedication in spiritual matters.
Jesus example he was baptized to do God's work as an Adult, so was John the Baptist.
They were not baptized as babies or kids.
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The genetic make up "theory" would mean there is a sin gene. Knowing that Christ was born a man and tempted in every way and did not sin debunks the gene or I was born that way belief. The go and sin no more statement of Christ debunks the sin gene.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus Father was not of human flesh origin.
  His Father is Jehovah.
  Planted in Mary.
  His Father is Perfect in every since.
  So Jesus even though born in flesh was not equal to a regular human.
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T, If Yahshua was not equal to a man, then how would we explain his sinless nature. He would either be born without the sin gene incapable of sinning, or he is "God." Neither option would work if we are to follow his example.
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4. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  HE IS GOD!
  Why won't you accept Scripture? Jn 1:14; I Tim 3:16; Rev 1:17-18; Is 43:10-11; Is 9:6; Matt 1:23; Jn 8:58; Jn 10:30-33; Rev 2:8; Jn 14:9-11; Jn 20:28 Phil 2:5-7; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:8-9; +
  Why?
  You can't "follow HIS example" IF unbelief!
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine,
  Click on this link and all the verses you claim that "Jesus is God" are addressed on the left hand side of the page. Your Pentecostal oneness doctrine is modalism heresy. http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospe … inity.html
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  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, you need to repent for trying to force your heavy man-made Pentecostal oneness modalism indoctrination on others.
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  God was the father and mother of Adam and in spite of that he chose to sin. Jesus came out of Mary after 9 months born just like us, flesh and blood, tempted in every way. His choice was to be obedient and not sin. Remember God cannot be tempted.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  True God the Father Jehovah does not be tempted. But His Son Jesus was challenged by satan.
  Jesus refused satan offers.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely we have access to Hebrew , Greek , Aramaic translations.
  The bibles today our modern translations but there are errors.
  But not the principles ingredients is still intact sorta speak.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Who cares? Holy Spirit "REVEALS" or are you not a BELIEVER of John 14:26 & 16:13?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was tempted so ........ He was not God, correct. Now what are your sins at birth, what law did you break? Norine the Holy Spirit does a lot of things but incoherent scripture quoting is with a caps lock key stuck is not one of them. ysab?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Satan KNEW JESUS was GOD in (LISTEN) "FLESH" & that's the part of JESUS Satan was working on - THE "FLESH" like he works on all of us & u're letting him win by not believing GOD'S WORD! BLASPHEMY! I'll klck your...LORD FORGIVE ME!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ooh ! Ooh ! As the little girl or boy says Somebodies cussing !
  You two shame on you!
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T: I told them earlier (he deleted) when I was a child & someone talked about my father I'd tell them that! I feel the same way about Jehovah "I'll kick their ..." for calling HIM a LIAR! We should feel same way when some 1 speaks against F
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Satan knew more than you, he knew he was tempting the son of God, satan knows God cannot be tempted. Even the demons know Jesus is the son of God. Now back to the sins you did at birth?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No! Satan knew more than u that JESUS had a "FLESH" side although GOD IN THE FLESH (Heb4:15)! Got WORD for that 2! READ IT!
  GOD doesn't leave me alone to "heathens!" Notice that?
  You're TWISTED & there r too many Scriptures to PROVE u are!
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  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  R u Christians seriously still believing tales from 2 - 3,000 years ago that involve demons and devils? ARE U SERIOUS? Of course BABIES are innocent! Use your skulls for something other than foreign superstitions! Please join us in the 21st century!
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Nude! "Common sense" tells u babies r born innocent but we're talking what WORD (GOD) SAYS! However, that explain why Rich feels that way too (common sense) bcuz "Birds of a feather flock together" (Ps 119:63)!
  U did stop by (Job 1:6)!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
  Satan cannot tempt God, yet he tempted his Son with scripture 3X.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Being the main humans anything that effected them would effect anything coming from their bodies .their offspring was effected by their sentence of dying forever.
  But if a purchaser could adopt us from Adam we could continue to live.
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT, the adoption has conditions and that is that we return to our original condition, without sin. If we were created by God to sin all the blood in the world would not change that. The blood is for forgiveness, we still have to repent and can.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Heb 4:15 "High Priest" (GOD) FELT our infirmities, but was TEMPTED like we are, yet w/o sin." Half man/half GOD! Why u thk JESUS judges right bcuz HE knows what we feel (in the flesh)!
  "Adoption" has 1 condition-"BELIEF" (Heb 3:19)! Repent=BELIEF!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The doctrine started with
  Church Father Augustine claimed that baptism removes the stain of original sin and that infants who die unbaptized are damned.
  They admit.
  
  That belief promoted the practice of baptizing babies as quickly as po
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine if you don't repent you will not be adopted, sorry that is the way it is, you don't get to continue in sin a be part of the kingdom of God.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with your opinion is not based on shifting the blame to babies.
  The whole problem which you ignore is genectic sin.
  Again if I took ink and and poured it on a stack of paper how many pieces would be effected by ink .the first the 2, 3, 4,
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The Indexerposted 7 years ago
This is just one of the many nonsenses created by theologians that have have had unfortunate consequences for millions of people. One only has to take the example of the "Magdalen Launderies" in Ireland, where children born illegitimately were reckoned to be extra-sinful and therefore suitable candidates for punishment throughout their childhoods.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, along with teaching kids that they are ALL born as 'unworthy sinners' - Christianity is actually beating every single one of their followers into submission without laying a finger on them. I used to be a C, and that is SO HARD to see.
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  Rick Myresposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We are all born in sin. But there is the age of accountability. Babies and very young are not accountable. Nobody is "extra-sinful".
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "All born in sin" - Amen!
  I don't see "age of accountability" in Scripture! As GOD "looks @ the heart," (II Sam 16:7), HE also "looks @ understanding" (Eph 1:17)!
  Who knows BUT GOD when child comes into "understanding?"
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Next Rich not all created from the heavenly Father die.
  Even though satan will die he has along with his band of demons have outlived humans. Not dead yet.
  Jesus is now granted immortality from his faithful course and love for the Heavenly Father.
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T: I don't care WHO you're "talking to" it should be done "decently (According to WORD) & IN ORDER" (ICor14:40) for "GOD is NOT the author of confusion" (ICor14:33)!
  So, who do you represent?
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Please tell me that the queen of hub pages confusion is not wagging her finger at someone else?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is that how you see me? No one else does; what's your problem?
  I give WORD & IF one can "hear," he's blessed; otherwise, Satan loves you & will continue to use you to be a "facetious" mean, deleting, prideful man who represents him!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No one else does? OK
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter what ppl call me!JESUS SAID"If the world hates you, ye know that it hated me BEFORE it hated u.If ye were of the world, the world would love his own:but bcuz ye are not of the world, but I have chosen u out of the world therefore..
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What costume are you wearing now, oh ya that of a martyr, that is not an original sin is it? What are your original sins, the laws you broke?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Not the one you're wearing claiming JESUS!
  You bore me! I'm going to bed!
  I've given u enough homework - many Scriptures testifying JESUS IS GOD!
  Go "STUDY!"
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  As usual you want to make Jesus God big surprise.
  This question is not about Oneness doctrine, it is about original sin. What is/are your original sins?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Oneness doctrine I never heard of before coming to HP! "Revelation" is my life not of man!
  Why do "ALL" (babies too) have to "stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (2Cor5:10) if babies sinless?
  Gut "feelings" is not WORD!
  Nice but Nope!
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  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't matter if you know what your incorrect beliefs are called or not, they are oneness doctrine, now you know. You mistake your gut feelings constantly as the HS. Your revelations are nothing but thoughts and many are wrong but you are stubborn.
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Reginald Boswellposted 7 years ago
Good question. is there a need for children to be converted? If not where does the threshold begin in human development that conversion is necessary else why did Christ die?
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  GOD "looks @ the heart" (understanding) of child! Of course, infants don't understand to come into the knowledge of Christ but GOD determines!
  ALL "must be born again" (Jn 3:7) once they "come into the knowledge" or "understand!"
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  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Tell us, Norine, how God looked at the hearts of the Amalekite and Midianite children in Numbers 31 and elsewhere. Thank God the bible is fiction stem-to-stern.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely if what you claim was truth, would that also make you also fictional ?
  Isa 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands, And I give orders to all their army.”
  Humans are not fictional nore bible
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Amen K&T!
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  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T: You may come from Holy Bible circa 393 AD, though if I must come from a book, I prefer it to be Darwin's Origin of the Species, published 24 November 1859. Isaiah is only useful to me where God commands Isaiah to prophecy for 3 yrs NAKED (20
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Also Nudely what you read and what it means is not in our simple English language. Words written in Hebrew and Greek are not the same meaning as in our own languages.
  6 days does not mean 6 days in our Language. It is Hebrew and Greek Jargon.
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  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  If our Bible is mistranslated, where do you go for your Christian instruction? Have you learned Aramaic? What do the ancient texts really say?
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  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely I am happy to answer any question you ask.
  But to answer would not fit the word characters in box provided I will personally write a Hub to you as where do our christain instructions come from.To Planks thank you for allowing for the question
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  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Kingdom: "Physical" DEATH makes Eph 2:1 A LIE! Sin brought "Spiritual" DEATH as well as "physical!" Why do ALL "stand before judgment seat" if physical when we will be in spirit? The spirit will be judged for thgs done in physical&spiritual!
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  celafoeposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  salvation is not about original sin the penalty for which is death. Its about DELIVERENCE FROM death which is decreed on ALL by adams transgression. the fact that babies die show they inherited the penalty -- DEATH otherwise how could they die?
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Glenis Rixposted 7 years ago
Babies are born innocent and anyone who believes anything different should hang their heads in shame! It is parents and society that influence how they will turn out.
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Please give Scripture which says "babies are born innocent?"
  If you can't, wishful thinking!
  reply report
2. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, stop damning innocent babies and hindering little children. Repent! Yahshua said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
  reply report
3. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Mk10:10?
  R we Lk1:15 "filled w/Holy Spirit fm mom?" If so, don't need to be "born again!"
  Was mom Lk 1:35 "overpowered by the Holy Spirit" for conception?lol
  reply report
4. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Babies are marked genetically imperfect.
  Which means they have Adams mark.
  Why do we have babies who are born with genetic abnormalities.
  Which prove a point it's not what a baby does which he does nothing it what he inherits.
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5. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  You will find the sin gene right next to the gay gene. The only thing we got from Adam was death, righteous or not all die. (See Christ, Abraham, Peter, James etc.) The trick is are we raised from the dead to eternal life as Christ is.
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6. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What ever you call it Rich it still exist.
  Jesus only died a human death for good reasons. 1 to purchase humans from eternal death.
  2 . To return to a spirit body and present this value to the Heavenly Father.
  These are the basics why.
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7. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  Getting a little off track, the gene "human" explanation was said tongue in cheek. There is no sin or gay gene. Babies are born as sinless as Christ was. The hope believers should have is that Christ was like us in everyway yet ...................
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8. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Not true Rich then explain why babies are born with genetic abnormalities ?
  True they do not act out sin .but they inherit traits.
  So until you can explain that you are not correct.
  So far what ever a person does sexual is their decision .
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9. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  So babies without abnormalities are sinless and those with abnormalities are sinners? Where is that in the scripture?
  A sexual decision can be a sin, what decision as a babe made you a sinner?
  reply report
10. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  K&T is RIGHT according to Scripture (Ps 51:5; 58:3; Rm 5:12) we are "born sinners!" We can't change WORD! No matter how we "feel!"
  K&T: re: born w/abnormalities-"Who sinned this [blind] man r his parents JESUS Said "For my GLORY"(paraphJn9:1
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11. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT and you are both wrong, those scriptures if understood do not support your catholic beliefs. Norine have you figured out why your god needs to be vindicated yet?
  reply report
12. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jehovah Witnesses and Pentecostal oneness cults are both wrong with their man-made doctrines.
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13. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich you did not answer the question.
  Why are babies born with birth defects ? Planks you are not answering questions but throwing stones in the name of religion.
  Is that the way to answer your questions? I never mention your religion .
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14. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  KT
  There is no way I can answer with scripture, I'd have to make something up, kind of like the question you made up. The bible doesn't address genetics sorry. It does address sin, breaking of the law, what laws did you break as a babe?
  reply report
15. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Since when is having a birth defect a sin? Sin is a choice.
  reply report
16. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You guys r IGNORANT to WORD. Stop DELETING & u might learn something! Men!
  Birth defects ARE mentioned in Scripture (Jn9:2-3)!
  I don't see where either of you have provided Scripture saying "Born Sinless!"
  Please do!
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17. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me please your law breaking as you screamed your first breath? Tell me the sins of your birth? Don't be calling people ignorant, you still have not answered why your God needs to be vindicated. Your scripture doesn't say you were.
  reply report
18. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I said MY GOD was "manifested in the flesh" (ITim3:16)! What does your god say of Jn1:14? Man couldn't find a word to "twist" via translation? See! Listen to Holy Spirit not man's translations! U don't BELIEVE Rm 5:12? I'll kick ur..LORD forgive me!
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19. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
  Does not say we are born sinners.
  reply report
20. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Death by sin passed upon ALL men via Adam so, if born, ALL have sinned! What part of that don't u understand?
  Don't worry infants don't have the capacity to understand & until then MERCY!
  What a wonderful GOD we serve!
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21. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Don't worry infants don't have the capacity to understand & until then MERCY!" Did you make this up with the Catholic handbook of how to rationalize what isn't true to start with. What sin did you commit as a baby? One lie begets another.
  reply report
22. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You & your brother in crime need to READ Scripture & BELIEVE what IT SAID rather than "interpreting" IT to mean what you "feel; like Glenis!
  IF ALL would GO BACK & start your "RELIGIOUS" journey over to a "SPIRITUAL" one, WORD would be "
  reply report
23. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I can see you have no desire for discussion as your superior knowledge will not permit. Let me know if you decide other wise.
  reply report
24. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This is not a "discussion" as FACTS (WORD/Scriptures) have "PROVEN" ur analogy wrong yet no decision has been reached that WORD is right!
  You are as "man," - "Prideful" & as such GOD can not use (I Jn 2:16)!
  reply report
25. 55
  Michael Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Fabulous , the world would be ignorant and lost without this lady's Norine William expertise teaching...Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.
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Paul K Francisposted 7 years ago
Babies are born sinless, and remain sinless. I believe that this sinless nature remains in us throughout our lives. When we transgress, we are covering it up. When we transgress, we are turning our backs on the light and the beauty, and the love, that is our sinless natures. But we always have the choice to repent and return, because our sinless nature, like Christ, has never gone away.
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Please provide Scripture which says "Babies are born sinless?"
  reply report
2. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The idea that an innocent baby is born damned is just disgusting really. Who can look into the face of a tiny baby and see a foul sinner? I guess Norine does. Repent! for we will see aborted babies in the Kingdom of God.
  reply report
3. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You sure will! Because they never acquired an "understanding!"
  Please provide Scriptures which state "Babies are NOT born sinners!"
  reply report
4. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Augustine of Hippo, please see these 3 witness and repent of your unbelief and apostate doctrine.Lk1:15 John full of the holy spirit in the womb.Mk10:10 the kingdom of God belongs to such as these and 1Pet2:22 the man Jesus who never knew sin.
  reply report
5. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Rich, See response under Glenix!
  What Mk10:10 have to do w/born sin free?
  No matter how u "try" u can't chg Scripture! Thanks to Adam, we were "born a sinner!" Provide Scriptures other than GOD "manifesting HIMSELF" in flesh & his forerunner(J
  reply report
6. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Christ (a man) was not born a sinner nor John nor other babies.
  "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." The zipper is showing on your sheep costume.
  reply report
7. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  How do u justify Ps 51:5; 58:3; Rm 5:12? Do they LIE? JESUS' birth was 1 of a kind whereby the Holy Spirit overpowered Mary; Same w/Jn! Did the Holy Spirit overpower our parents? lol
  Get REAL!
  reply report
8. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Adam was one of a kind but still a man just like Jesus. What law did you break as a new born infant that made you a sinner at birth?
  reply report
9. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  My Question to you Rich what sin did these children commit born with genectic diseases? They did nothing but Adam did it for them or us
  We come from his dented pan.
  reply report
10. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Adam was like GOD until disobeyed then passed sin to ALL men (Rm 5:12)! NO ONE "BUT GOD" was EVER conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT except Adam (lost that) & JESUS.Jn"leaped in womb" @ that pt filled w/HS not during conception! Man=sin! How born holy?
  reply report
11. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Your romans quote does not say we are born sinners. Name the law you transgressed at birth. While you are trying to find that work out God having to be vindicated.
  reply report
12. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You say your god needs vindicating due to man's translation of WORD! Sorry! I get mine straight fm Holy Spirit (WORD) & HE doesn't LIE as man!
  Mom/Dad had sex (man=sin) I was conceived in sin due to the fall of Adam! WORD says SO & u can't
  reply report
13. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Mom and dad having sex is not a sin if they are married. Even if they are not that doesn't effect you, try again what was your sin or law that you broke. You are the 1tim3:6 quoting person not me. I told you KJV was wrong what say you?
  reply report
14. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm the Jn 1:14; Lk 1:35; 1Tim 3:16; Is 43:10-11;Matt1:23;Is9:6Phl2:5-7;Col 2:9; Heb 1:8-9;Rev 1:8;22:13 quoting persons also! JESUS IS GOD!
  GREATEST ALLEGORY in SCRIPTURE!
  Caps perceived as shouting: LISTEN! ADAM PASSED SIN TO ALL MEN (Rm 5:12)!
  reply report
15. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You have become a resounding gong, nothing you say can be taken seriously. you are over 110 incorrectly quoted verses now. Good job.
  reply report
16. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I give GOD'S WORD = HOLY SPIRIT & YOU DEFY WHICH IS BLASPHEMY calling WORD "not serious!"
  What do they teach you at that church?
  reply report
17. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I very much respect the written word of God. questioning your misuse of it doesn't mean I don't take it seriously. It is you that is in question not God, His son or the written word. Your exclusive claims to understanding is what is not serious.
  reply report
18. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I give Scripture! Do you?Now provide Scripture saying "Babies are born sinless?" Ezk 28:15 "Thou WAS made perfect in thy ways fm the day thou wast created, TILL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE." After iniquity ALL born sinners & ALL must stand before
  reply report
19. 60
  Rich kelleyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Eze 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. Does not say babies are born sinners. You and I were blameless until we sinned.
  reply report
0
Nudelyposted 7 years ago
The Apostle Paul, whose epistles appear on the world scene well before the Gospels, never quotes Jesus. He seems wholly unaware of any of Jesus' sayings or his miracles. Drs. Richard Carrier and Robert Price, among others, are convinced that Jesus was not an earthly being, but rather the celestial conception of those who started his story, much as any of the other gods and goddesses of that area/era. This explains the lack of Jesus' mention by the Essenes, by Philo of Alexandria, and by anyone else in the era who took notes.

Luke 4:14 "And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about."

- Why fame? -

John 21:25 "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

OK, so this guy is B U S Y ! ! ! Israel is at the crossroads of major trade routes... word of such a miracle maker would be known for decades to come, but Josephus hardly even burps his name, and the Testimonium Flavianum, as it's called, doesn't seem to be worth the paper it's printed on. Papias attests to authenticity, but all we have of Papias are a few scraps saved hundreds of years later through Eusebius. Justyn Martyr and Origen drop hints of an earthly Jesus, but no one knows for sure.

No one knows who wrote the Gospels, and since it is apparent that "Mark's" Gospel came first, how funny he recorded things he couldn't have possibly known first hand! It's funny, "Matthew" had to fashion his account on "Mark" to fix things he didn't like, but added even more improbable events than those of "Mark!" "Luke" stepped up with a genealogy and timeline that contradicted "Matthew," then "John," in an attempt to patch over everyone else's blunders, jumps the shark in nearly every chapter such as the grossly overstated hyperbole already mentioned in 21:25. These are the four stooges of biographical scholarship, whoever they were, but one thing is certain, they were inventing Jesus as they went along.

Fortunately these authors insisted on Jesus using Genesis, not just anecdotally, but THEOLOGICALLY! This is a blessing because all rational humans recognize the obvious fictions of Genesis. When the Son of God is quoting fiction for theological instruction, you can be pretty certain that the Son of God is fictitious as well. Hallelujah, Allah Akbar, Shalom, Namaste, Peace Out
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1. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  As in the testimony given of a car accident, it's told in "each person's view" but same story! So is Scripture! Christ came, taught, died, ascended! Same story! It doesn't matter "when" written but "what" written! Inspiration fm GOD not timeline
  reply report
2. 0
  Nudelyposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I find it odd that God "inspires" his writers : 1.) with different details. 2.)decades after the events 3.) 100s of miles fr where they hapnd. [Mark written in Rome, etc.] 4.) with stories no one else can verify 5.) to be pro-Roman/anti-Jewish. Hmm..
  reply report
3. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The most astounding thing is that the Heavenly Father has always been.
  He see a generation coming and going.
  Like a Principal in a school .he sees classes come and go. He sees the overall view of his school. The student only the years he attends.
  reply report
4. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nudely these Doctors might have Education but they are just as human as you and I and make mistakes.
  They live and die . Which means they were born in sin.
  You will believe an imperfect human , Over God who you say you believe in.
  reply report
5. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the Heavenly Father has always been, K&T - but, religions and their various holy books are man-made things meant to LIE to humans to put their souls in bondage in this world; and Christianity succeeded, nicely - and continues to divide &
  reply report
6. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Misfit I agree with you to a point their is alot of misleading going on.You say this faithfully.
  But our Heavenly Father is stronger then satan who is misleading many.
  Some people like to be in that position. It's to restrictive to do as Jesus ask
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word55posted 7 years ago
Rick Myres is correct. The accountability starts when the when a baby is no longer a child. I Corinthians 13:11
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roselinsojanposted 7 years ago
It is a clever question on baptism. I want to ask you another question,Why Jesus get himself baptism?
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1. 72
  word55posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus got baptized to experience what man had to go through.
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2. 59
  Kiss andTalesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Planks the ink effect the paper because they connect to each other.
  Adam connect to each and every human generically.
  What effect him touched us the minute he ate.
  Jesus was our rescue. So God is righteous in all things he provided a cure .
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Perspycaciousposted 7 years ago
As I recall, Jesus said: "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
When I looked this quote up, I found it in Mark 10:14.
If anyone maintains that heaven is made up of children who are "dead in sin," it is a place I doubt I would aspire to go to.
I believe that "little children" are probably not over the age of 8, and without sin until they can be knowledgeable of what constitutes sin.
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35
MovieMattposted 7 years ago
Ezekiel said it. We are born without sin. Baptising someone that has no concept or the capacity to determine right from wrong is a waste, and deplorable.
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1. 81
  PlanksandNailsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the answer. Augustine doctrine is deplorable. If you believe you were born a sinner, then you must also believe that you’re not responsible for your sin; there is no escaping this conclusion.
  reply report
2. 88
  MizBejabbersposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I cringe when someone calls himself a Pauline Christian. To me it is an oxymoron. You either follow Christ or you follow Paul.
  reply report
3. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh, there are the two current versions of Christianity - thank you, MizB. What IF Jesus original message was the SAME as Paul's and the 4 'saved' gospels out of HUNDREDS destroyed were manipulations? Check out my hub or search Christian + Kabbalah
  reply report
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MichaelMcNabbposted 7 years ago
Baby's are born free from the oppression of religion.
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1. 60
  Michael-Milecposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Despite the fact that "the oppression of religion" isn't a biblical term, you are right on this one.
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Sam Shepardsposted 7 years ago
.....................................................................................No
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clash-resourcesposted 7 years ago
usefull question! thank you foк this post
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Harmsposted 7 years ago
Yes that is perfectly true. When Adam transgressed God's commandment an immediate death took place in his spirit. We need to remember that the scriptures teaches us that man consists of three parts. Body, soul and spirit. The spirit is the only means we have to communicate with God. Therefore after their disobedience Adam and Eve were banned from Paradise and from God's presence. They had lost contact with God, and their children had to be born in the same condition. For the children of Adam to get contact with God again their "dead spirit" had to be made alive. It is this process which the scriptures refer to as being born again.
Eph 2:1 "And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins, ..."
From the above scripture it is made clear that sin causes spiritual death, but also that such a person can be made alive again by God if he repents from his sins.
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1. 62
  Harmsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Babies are not kept accountable for their state, they will go to heaven if they die as a baby. But there came a day in each person's life when he is matured enough to take his own decisions. Then spiritual accountability starts!!
  reply report
2. 75
  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You and Norine have been well indoctrinated; but it is nonsense that was carved out in ignorance from a man-written book designed to enslave the human mind over 1000 years after it was collected. http://charlesdailey.net/churchhistoryrev2-11.pdf
  reply report
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parpiypaulposted 7 years ago
your answer...the bible is a great piece that you think you know all ,the other time again u are on your kneel asking for mercy
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1. 62
  Harmsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We have a perfectly righteous God who never expects from anyone something which he is not able to do. Babies wiil only be kept responsible for their own decisions once they can MAKE them.
  reply report
2. 52
  Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Paul: Why, if u live under THE NEW COVENANT (Jer 31:34;Heb8:12;10:17; Ps103:12)?
  Harm: Amen!
  THANK GOD SOMEONE "KNOWS" SPIRIT IS OUR "COMMUNICATION LINE" TO GOD & NOT WHAT RELIGION HAS "TAUGHT" = "SPOOKY/CRAZY!"
  reply report
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Reluctant Revivalposted 7 years ago
All babies are born with a sinful nature because of Adam and Eve's sin punishment by God. If a baby dies, he or she gets a free pass to Heaven though. The reason being, babies have not matured enough to make mature decisions on their own - that is what God looks for in people.
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Norine Williamsposted 7 years ago
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon "ALL" men, for that "ALL" have sinned" (Romans 5:12)! Did you hear "ALL" men;" babies included? We can put our little "compassionate feelings" into the equation if we like, but the Word of God is the ONLY Thing that matters!

We know who that "one man" was; Adam! After he fell; God "looked for a man to fill in the gap" to bring us back to Him; "but found no one" and had to do it Himself (I Timothy 3:16)! Ezekiel 22:30 "And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none."

People there's no need to continue to "defy the Word of God" because "unbelief" is sin (Hebrews 3:19)! We (human) allow "our feelings" enter into the equation and that's where we go wrong (Proverbs 3:5)! No one wants to "think" or "believe" a poor little innocent baby could possibly be "born a sinner" so we try and justify with Scripture how it couldn't possibly be and "defy God!"

Why would John 3:7 say "We MUST be born again" if babies are not sinners? Why would they need "spiritual rebirth" if already "IN" Christ? Your responses "defy Scripture!"

GOD SAID in Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." Did you hear? GOD "searches the hearts" of babies to find their "level of understanding!" HE and ONLY HE determines if a child has "knowledge" and/or "understanding" of HIS Word!

GOD is MERCIFUL (John 1:14) and knows the "understanding" (mental capacity) of ALL; not only babies, but ALL men! JESUS SAID in Luke 12:47-48 "And that servant, which "knew" his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that "knew not," and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." So now, you have the "mental capacity" to "understand" yet "try to figure out a way to justify your *own* "understanding?" If so, GOD SAID "You will be beaten with "many" stripes!"

I continue to pray that "...the eyes of your "understanding" being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling..." (Ephesians 1:18)!

Blessings .
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newjerusalemposted 7 years ago
All became sinners because of the original sin of Adam. The sin, curse, and death came into the humanity through Adam. One disobedience made everyone sinners. In Romans, Paul expounds and establishes this truth. The sin of Adam is different from the sin of any father mentioned in Ezekiel. Today, no one needs to do any sin to become a sinner. Rather, people commit sin because they are already sinners. God considered the sin of Adam as the universal sin; hence, the Bible says that we all sinned against God and came short of the glory of God.
reply report

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Are all babies are born "dead in sin" because of Adam's sin, or "original sin?"

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Are all babies are born "dead in sin" because of Adam's sin, or "original sin?"

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