Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot in Tucson

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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

by NPR Staff
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January 8, 2011

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.

Giffords, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event at the Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.

At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson. Her condition was not immediately known.

Giffords was talking to a couple when the man ran up firing indiscriminately, and then ran off, Michaels said. According to other witnesses, the was tackled by a bystander and taken into custody.

More details to come.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know or care what party she was. This kind of violence will destroy representative democracy.
  
  I hope for her recovery.
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  JD Barlowposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  These things never end well. The best wishes to those who were hurt.
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  vox vocisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Horrible! It makes you wonder what is so very wrong with people!
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  Shinkickerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Terrible incident, a massacre on an ordinary day
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  DTR0005posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A simple observation and commentary without finger pointing:
  We claim to be and take pride in ourselves as being a nation of laws, a nation that values above all else, the peaceful transition of power, a nation that values the voice of all - including the minority, descenting opinion - the tiny voice at the back of the room if you will.
  
  As a nation of laws and "civility" - a civility that we hold up as a model for the rest of the world to pattern their cultures upon, we have a very long and tragic history of political assascinations - our record is comparable with Russia's, South America's, and the like. Take what you will out of this observation, but don't deny it...
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
I'm watching it on CNN.

They are saying she was shot in the head. Someone said about 6 are dead.

I hope this person was not influenced by the tea party, et al. Let's hope it's just some crackpot who was not politically motivated.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I hope this person was not influenced by the tea party, et al. Let's hope it's just some crackpot who was not politically motivated."
  
  WTF?
  
  Of course its a psycho, only psycho's do this kind of stuff.
  
  Who cares what influenced a psycho.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because the congress woman was on their hit list of those to defeat.
  
  Whatever, we have to wait and see what his motivations were. We don't know if it was politically motivated or not.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Because the congress woman was on their hit list of those to defeat."
  
  Defeat not kill.
  
  Why wait, the first thing you think of is the Tea party.
  
  Lets see, she voted for the health care bill, so maybe it was someone against the health care bill.
  
  Was for securing the borders, maybe it was an illegal immigrant.
  
  She was for lowering the pay for congressman, maybe it was Nancy Pelosi.
  
  It was a psycho, its always a psycho, I don't care what influenced them.
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize, but your comments are always designed to inflame! How about some compassion for these victims, or are you so politically motivated that you just cannot control yourself?
  
  Now is not the time for your political rantings! I pray for all of the families.
  
  This is so sad and unnecessary!
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aw jeeeeeeeezuz.
  
  Do you not follow these threads completely or do you just skip to the ones you don't like?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jim, if this shoe fits, wear it!
  
  Here is a commen today on the shooting by the Pima County, Arizona, sheriff"
  
  Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking about Arizona:
  
  "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
  
  "It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
  
  He later added:
  
  DUPNIK: Let me just say one thing, because people tend to poo-poo this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech. But it's not without consequences.
  
  REPORTER: How do you know that that's what caused it.
  
  DUPNIK: You don't.
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  Elena.posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A pshyco, I tend to agree. But sometimes one can't just turn a blind eye on the indendiary influences.
  
  Personal responsibility is all good and well, but what of accountability? What of hate speech?
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe media on both sides are culpable. That is where the responsibility lies. Both sides fan the flames and then act shocked and dismayed while quietly being gleeful that they have good copy for their shows and print.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its only hate speech if its speech you don't like.
  
  Nobody on TV or Radio is promoting violence against anyone.
  
  If they were they would be shut down immediately.
  
  Words from a box didn't cause this, one nuts thoughts did.
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  Elena.posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Jim, you and I may not agree on anything, but please. It's hate speech if it's hate speech, regardless whether you like it or not. I mean, please.
  
  Right wing extremist bastards don't deserve to die, let's f*cking kill them now. NOW. I mean, give me my f*ucking gun
  
  AND
  
  Left wing extremist bastards don't deserve to die, let's f*cking kill them now. NOW. I mean, give me my f*ucking gun
  
  These are both hate speech, and it's very likely half the world likes only one of them and despises the other. Still, both are HATE speech.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thats nice, did you hear that on the TV or radio?
  
  Or did you just type it to make a point?
  
  I'm betting on the latter, when I hear something like that on the TV or radio I will call it hate speech, until then its just words you typed.
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  Elena.posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's where you and I disagree, fundamentally. This is hate speech regardless where you hear it, even if it's only in your mind.
  
  Ignoring this fact is what ends up justifying all sorts of conducts on the name of "free speech".
  
  Oh!!! Edited to say: Evidently this is my opinion only. HAHAHAHA
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't hear things like that in my mind.
  
  Seek immediate help if you do.
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  DTR0005posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  EXACTLY!!!! Hate speech, on either side, is hateful rhetoric. If you watch the "Liberal Elite" media as most Conservatives and Teapartiers like to call it, you will notice that their main form of ridicule is by portraying ultra Conservatives as being dull, not very well educated, hypocritical and naive in their views. Fox and other conservative media tend to portray liberals as "dangerous," socialists, "haters of freedom," etc. I have heard that "haters of freedom" a dozen times if I have heard it once. Again rhetoric is rhetoric, but portraying a movement as being "dumb and hypocritical" is a little less vitriolic than calling the opposition "haters of freedom" and socialists all because of what amounts to essentially the healthcare bill and financial reform being voted into law.
  When the Patriot Act was "pushed through Congress" by Conservatives and signed into law by George Bush, I never heard a peep from liberal pundits about this new law being "totalitarianism" - even though limiting the fundamental right of habeus corpus, as this law can and has done, smacks square in the face of one the principle tenants of Western Law.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you hear Rachel Maddow when Obama expanded the Patriot Act??
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure the killer is a psycho. But the Tea Party, the NRA and the fundamentalists of most religions have more than their share of psychos.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Psychos are not limited by categorazation Ralph. I was waiting for everyone to start pointing fingers without the full story. It was inevitable.
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  TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're absolutely right, Tony...
  
  I think it's just human nature, unfortunately.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah and the Dems are pure as the driven snow!
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  umm, yes, ok, please don't tell me next time that this is repubs who always politicize things. Somehow evidence is to the contrary...
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was not politicizing it, I was just hoping it was not political.
  
  Anyway, I knew I shouldn't have posted in the political forums here
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, during the campaign last fall Palin reportedly put out something with Giffords in the cross-hairs of a rifle.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was still up on her sarahpac website until shortly after the shooting, when it was pulled.
  
  Edited to add screenshot of crosshairs graphic.
  
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's how this works, rational people look at that and say to themselves "these are the people who are targeted for defeat in the upcoming election".
  
  Irrational people say "this is proof that Sarah Palin wants these people killed".
  
  Extremely disturbed and homicidal people say, well, I don't know what they say.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Sharron Angle, the Tea Party candidate turned Republican primary winner in Nevada, has taken heat for a number of extreme affiliations and policy positions. One of the more outlandish was a statement she made during a radio interview last January in which she floated the idea that the public would bring down an out-of-control Congress with "Second Amendment remedies."
  
  from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/1 … 14003.html
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And responsible people refrain from using those kinds of images in the first place.
  
  That is how it SHOULD work.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing wrong with the image.
  
  Where were you when someone Hanged Sarah Palin in effigy?
  
  Liberals have no creditability when it comes to these things.
  
  Especially after 8 years of Bush bashing.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you think there is nothing wrong with the image, but many people disagree, including whoever decided to remove it from her website after the shooting.
  
  I don't approve of hanging any public figure in effigy, including Sarah Palin. Once again, you are lumping me in with this idea you have of "liberals," which I know is easier for you than to just talk with me, the person. That is the whole problem; it takes more effort to view those you disagree with as individuals than it does to categorize them into a handy group that you can summarily dismiss.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Once again, you are lumping me in with this idea you have of "liberals," which I know is easier for you than to just talk with me, the person."
  
  I lump you in with liberals because you are a liberal.
  
  Liberals walk lock step with other liberals and only see what they are told to see.
  
  You,lovemychris,Doug Hughes and Ralph deeds might as well be the same person.
  
  Are you the same person?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "You,lovemychris,Doug Hughes and Ralph deeds might as well be the same person."
  
  And you have a distinct resemblance to TK Sensei.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But I'm not.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Damn Ralph, that was cold!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We do agree on a number of things. So what?
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You agree on everything, there isn't a dimes bit of difference in any of you.
  
  Your posts are all filled with the same hatred and acrimony.
  
  Its almost as if you channel one another.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You mean we usually disagree with you. Try looking in a mirror. You might find the answer.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, there are many here that disagree with me. You may have noticed I didn't include Ron Montgomery,Jeff Berndt and more.
  
  They are clearly people who put thought into what they say and are not just spouting the liberal lines.
  
  I mean you 4 say the same things in the same way.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some pretty rational people will also say, "What's with the cross-hairs? Why not stars or dots or "D's" (for Democrats), or whatever? Who even thinks in terms of rifles and cross-hairs for something for that's going to be distributed/publicized for the purposes of a campaign?"
  
  Rational/intelligent people are also aware that anything that lumps together elements like, "problem" and "solution" and cross-hairs might be interpreted one way by mental-case freaks; and rational people know there are tons of mental-case freaks in the world, and that people in the public eye are at particular risk. Maybe whoever is responsible for that map-picture is guilty of nothing more than being stupid (but that ought to tell people something about how seriously they ought to pay attention to what someone like that says). ...... and I'm not a Liberal.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree, Lisa. Sure, the overwhelming majority of people will see the crosshairs and not react irrationally. But if .001% think it's a call to armed action, isn't that too many?
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
They just announced that she and 6 others have died.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I said when Arizona allowed guns to be carried to political events that they were just asking for trouble. Of course, this nut would probably have carried his firearm even if it had been illegal.
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Rhetoric allow under free speech (Rapp Music, and Political Satire and Talk Radio) is deadly
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And allowed you to type this.
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jim do you support toxic rhetoric? That type of speech is based on lies and attemps to mislead.
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  Texasbetaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you kidding? Have you read Jim before? Jim IS toxic rhetoric.
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  O'k Tex, now I see what toxic rhetoric looks like.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  when you talk about anarchy, THIS is what you are proposing.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You've never heard me advocate anarchy, Doug!
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are a moderate and most ultra-conservatives don't even support anarchy. The word gets tossed around far too lightly - like 'anarchy' is roughly equivalent to getting your marshmallows too black at a weenie roast. It's catchy, sounds cute, smart and sexy - until you find out what's involved.
  
  I brought it up now - while people across the spectrum are appalled in the hope (however unlikely) that later in the year when 'anarchy' is proposed as an answer, moderates and conservatives will say, "No Thank you."
  
  Whatever political stripe the trigger-man happens to be - shooting a congresswoman in the head at close range, murdering a judge, and 4 other people including a 9-year-old girl is anarchy.There isn't a polite, orderly, civilized road to anarchy. It can get much worse. My wife lived through it. I don't want to see it in the USA.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't about anarchy, it's about a mentally disturbed individual. Course you Ralph and lmc probably blame John Lennons death on the tea party.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nuthin' to see here, folks. Just a crazy man. Nuthin' to do with conservatives 'reloading' or 'second amendment options'. Just a nut. He ain't one of us, no matter what they say....
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who is they ?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you for real...?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you feel real smart when ya' say things like that?
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habeeposted 13 years ago
She was a Blue Dog Democrat and voted against Pelosi, according to the news. She seemed to be fairly moderate and very much in favor of bipartisanship. If this was politcally motivated, why would anyone have hated her so much?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Arizona is a hotbed of intolerance and extremist hatred.
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  Julie2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mr. Deeds I must say first hand, it definitely is a hotbed for those two things you listed and more. We moved to Arizona less than a year ago due to employment and that is what we have been dealing with from many Arizonians that were born and raised here. I would have never believed this still took place.
  
  The few people that have actually been nice are transplants like us, from other states. They have also told us that they have experienced the same thing. I hope it gets better with time or we will just have to find a way to get out of here. There is but so much I can tolerate, ignorance and racism sure are not one of those things.
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Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago
This is so sad, I feel bad for their families.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Now they're saying she's still alive!! I hope and pray this is correct.
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
Whatever, it is tragic. I'm not going to argue politics, I just made that comment because it was a Tea Party candidate who she defeated, that is all. I think it was awful regardless. Political assassinations never solve anything.

Now CNN is saying they are not sure she is dead or not.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  MSNBC is reporting that she is still alive too.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
"Who cares what influenced a psycho."

If she was Republican, you would.

"was on their hit list of those to defeat. "

Exactly. Hit list is the operative meaning.
Like Palin putting bullseyes on people. "Re-load".
Carrying assault rifles to 4th of July parades, bringing guns to Obama meetings......

Home-grown terrorism. It's been here forever...KKK, Operation Rescue, now Fox News, IMO.
Time to shut that propaganda inc. down. Tiller, that man who was gunning after the Tides Foundation and Obama, now a Democratic politician.

It's all related, don't doubt it. And no accident either. Terror is always used to forward an agenda.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cris could you give your hatred and small mindedness a break for one day ?
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its fairly obvious the answer is no.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No--this is a dangerous enemy you refuse to see.
  How many more people have to die before something is done about it?
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  google: As Palin "stands with" Beck, his rhetoric is credited with inspiring death threats
  October 29, 2010 2:33 pm ET
  
  "Kill the f*cking Senator! Hang the f*cking Senator! I hope somebody puts a f*cking bullet between your f*cking eyes. Far left liberal socialist democratic bitch. You mother-f*cker. You sold the f*cking people of the country out for socialism. I hope somebody f*cking erasers your f*cking life. Yes, I hope somebody assassinates you, you f*cking bitch."
  
  Please stop acting like this is no big deal. It is violence they are promoting with their rhetoric.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Weather Underground, Black Panthers, etc, etc. Look, don't be ridiculous. There are radicals of all types. Left, right and every thing in between. We could go on and on. What good does that do.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If this had been a republican we would have not heard a word from her.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who was shot here? The good we can do is get rid of the obvious rhetoric that leads up to this.
  
  Tell me, pray tell....what does it mean when you put a bullseye target on someone?
  Does it mean, love them? Listen to them? Hear their opinion and have a rational discussion?
  NO! It means SHOOT. Target....Re-Load.....
  WAKE UP!
  
  There are NO Democrats talking like this. SEE the enemy for who it is!
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  FOX news is going no where. Fox News is NOT responsible for this. Palin, the Tea Party aren't responsible. Jared Loughner is responsible. He's 22, a vet, an amputee I believe. He's apparently got some phsyc issues. Sane people don't hold other people accountable for insane people's actions.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Remains to be seen.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are truly disturbed.
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Beege215eposted 13 years ago
You know, if the NRA wants everyone to have guns, I say that is just GREAT. But let's stop manufacturing ammunition. Completely. No more bullets. They are right, guns don't kill people; people kill people. Let's not give those people ammunition and then see what happens next. This is a case of intranational terrorism and the shooter needs to be shot. My condolences to the families left behind.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
"an anti-Giffords event was held in June with the billing: "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

Rep. Giffords was also on Sarah Palin's "target list."

As noted earlier, a gun was dropped at a Giffords event in 2009, and her office was vandalized in March."

2+2=4
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah she's been a target for quite some time now.
  
  This is horrible. My thoughts and well-wishes are with her, the other victims of this senseless hatred, and their families and loved ones.
  
  I hope they catch the creep who did it and fry him. Yes, I'm a liberal, for the death penalty. That's part of the problem is that too many people refuse to see that we can work together, if everyone tries to.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm guessing if it was Palin, you'd want to give the guy a medal.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not, what a ridiculous thing to say. People like Palin are never assassinated.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ever hear of Ronald Reagan?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True. Reagan was very nearly assassinated. There are extremist nutjobs at both ends of the political spectrum.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wait, was John Hinkley a political extremist? Or was he just trying to get Jodie Foster's attention?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. He was not at all like Sarah Palin.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Closer to Sarah Palin than Gabrielle Giffords.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, not at all. Among the similarities to Giffords of course is the attempted assassinations on both.
  
  Reagan, agree with him or not, would never post cross hairs over a political opponent's district. Reagan did not share the thoughtless, hate-filled rhetoric of today's right-wing extremists no matter how often they invoke his name. Like Giffords, he was interested in finding solutions, not being "ideologically pure".
  
  I hate to shatter your illusions about your hero, but you seem to have forgotten that he was once a Democrat.
  
  You've fallen into your usual self-made trap Jim. Not everyone who disagrees with your brand of right-wing nonsense is a Communist.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, Ron. I think Giffords and Reagan are much closer ideologically than Palin and Reagan.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That settles it then.
  
  Two liberals agreeing that Reagan is closer ideologically to a Democrat than to a Republican.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Let Obama's Reagan Revolution Begin! Frank Rich
  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/opini … ef=opinion
  
  The present-day radicals donning Reagan drag, led by Sarah Palin, seem not to know, as Cannon writes, that their hero lurched “from excessive tax cuts to corrective tax increases disguised as tax reform” and “submitted eight unbalanced budgets to Congress in succession.” Reagan made no promise whatsoever of a balanced budget in the document that codified Reaganomics, his White House’s 281-page message to Congress in February 1981. The historian Gil Troy has calculated that spending on entitlement programs more than doubled on Reagan’s watch. America slid into debtor-nation status, and Americans “went from owing 16 cents for every dollar in national income in 1981” to owing 44 cents per dollar in 1988.
  
  It’s also likely that Reagan would have drifted off — like most Americans — during the pretentious recitation of the Constitution in the House. He prided himself on serving as a true citizen-politician and, as Cannon writes, saw no problem in being “completely ignorant of even civics-book information about how bills were passed.”
  
  What Reagan did know was how to deliver a message, even if that message belied his policies or actions or the facts.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As opposed to one teabagger convincing himself that Reagan was a wingnut.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I hate to shatter your illusions about your hero, but you seem to have forgotten that he was once a Democrat."
  
  Yes, he apologized for that.
  
  As for the rest, you have no idea what he would have done.
  
  Give it up Ron, your side is just as guilty as mine when it comes to churning out nonsense.
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  Texasbetaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dude, Reagan would be considered a liberal by you people today.
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
I have to say John Boehner just gave a classy statement.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, he did.
  
  Hubby is watching FOX, and they say 19 shot and 5 of those are dead.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
I'm sorry Pandora, but they have no intention of working together.
It's always been "Follow our agenda, or else." Always.

Kent State anyone? Remember?
Panther killed sleeping in his bed.

A Zebra doesn't change its stripes.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Giffords is a very hard-working politician who likes to stay in close contact with her constituents. From what I've read about her, she does her best to represent their best interests. She used to be a Republican and works well with both sides of the Congressional aisle.

This is so tragic. I pray this is not the first of more heinous acts.

Now they're saying there might have been another shooter. That's even scarier.

OMG, one person shot was a child.
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Doc Snowposted 13 years ago
Appalling, obviously.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago
This hits pretty close for me. I used to live in Tucson, and frequently shopped at the Safeway where this happened. Giffords has been threatened with violence before; she is very aware of the risks she faces in a state where a large percentage of the citizens are armed and angry.

We don't yet know anything about motives etc. so we need to refrain from painting this person or persons as being associated with or influenced by any particular group.

Our thoughts and prayers need to be with the victims and their families, the rest will be determined soon enough.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Finally something we can agree on.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ron one of those rare occasions I agree with you. I think all of our disgust with this cowardly act is bi-partisan. Because Giffords from what I have read about is a pretty good person.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This will probably turn out not to have anything to do with her politics.
  
  She simply represents the face of something this idiot hated.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What if it DOES have to do with politics? What if it IS Fox News again?
  Will you call for something to be done, or just act like "There is nothing to it"?
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  TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Oh...please...give it a rest...
  
  This is horrible news--I hadn't heard until now, so I am going to go read up...my thoughts and prayers are with all the victims and their families...
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "What if it IS Fox News again?"
  
  What if it is fox news again what?
  
  You want me to rally the troops against the first amendment?
  
  We must attack our own liberties so you feel good?
  
  Whoever,whatever you are you need to get a grip on reality.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would say the same to you. You believe an illusion. Manufactured and sold to you by the mind-manipulators.
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  DTR0005posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing that can be done in a democracy such as ours is try to educate the "soft minded." Free speech, even ignorant free speech, is better than none at all. We debate these issues and add our two cents' worth because we enjoy this freedom.
  The real "problem" is that Americans aren't the brightest bulbs in the box. It's easier to get a 600 word newsflash on Yahoo than to dig into the issues at hand ourselves. Americans have lived with the right to be willingly ignorant for so long that it ihas become our new "comfort zone." And when things are super ducky i.e., economically, we don't care - we have two cars, our four televisions, and two weeks vacation a year.
  Politics, regardless of how you lean, have always been about getting people, the "vote power," to vote against their own self insterests. Case in point: whose self interest is hurting when a nation decides it's going to offer universal healthcare to its citizens? It's not hurting the citizens as evidenced by Medicaid, Medicare, Tri-Care, etc. It's hurting or potentially taking a bite out of a monopoly owned by private enterprise...
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She is a moderate; a Democrat who serves a heavily Republican district. She has faced violent threats before that were in fact politically motivated, but right now we don't know about this one.
  
  The good news is the doctors are hopeful for her survival.
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
http://firedoglake.com/2011/01/08/giffo … -giffords/

Her recent opponent used shooting terminology in his campaign against her.

This is where hatefests lead to. You guys have got to stop hating. We're all just people trying to do the best we can.

A 10 year old is among the victims.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
"Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."
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Stacie Lposted 13 years ago
apparently a fed judge was one of the people killed.
Federal officials told NBC News that U.S. District Court Judge John M. Roll was among those who was shot and had died. He was the chief judge in Arizona, appointed in 1991 by the first President Bush. He became chief judge in 2006.
so sad..people love their guns..
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habeeposted 13 years ago
The federal judge shot, John Roll, was recommended by John McCain and nominated by Bush, Sr.

Giffords is now responding to commands!

The 9-year-old child has died.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Roll is now dead too. This has nothing to do with parties and everything to do with a 22 year old maniac vet.
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mega1posted 13 years ago
No one will ever mention the expose on organ transplants that was about to originate from her office? I guess not. That never happened. That may still happen, that may be happening now!
Will we get to read it? see it? know it? If you have the right amount of money you can "immigrate" to Arizona and get a heart, liver, lung, some veins, some blood, a new brain? Anybody in the market? Not me, I'ma not even havin' the insurance for it! Let's all give up! We're entirely ruined now by the drugrunning/organrunning/"recent transplant"/gun-running "international" thugs in Arizona! Gee, we are? news to me! I wonder who the next president will be?
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I hadn't heard of that mega. That's a good reason to "Off" her though....keep from being exposed.
  
  Not like it hasn't happened before....it happens all the time!
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C.J. Wrightposted 13 years ago
Jared Loughner is the shooter. He's absolutely NUTS! Favorite books Mein Kempf and the Communist Manifesto. He was upset about currency not being backed by gold... He attacked a Moderate Democrat. Strange stuff indeed.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmmmm, who's been selling this "Gold" stuff?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Surely you're not blaming Evan G Rogers?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's also very upset about poor grammar. This guy is loony tunes.
  
  Evidently, he's a big fan of Karl Marx and Hitler.
  
  LMC, I don't believe FOX is a big proponent of Marx.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea, he's a nut case. I'm afraid for returning war vets, if this guy was in fact a returning war vet.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, but pretty much everyone at Fox were making comparisons about Obama being a Marxist and being "just like Hitler".
  Maybe he was trying to learn what "Obama was all about", according to Fox.
  
  Because, what do you expect will happen when you tell a patriotic American, who fought in a war, that the president is a foreign-born, pals around with terrorists, muslim from Kenya who is out to destroy America?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The guy didn't fight in the war. The latest news is that the army wouldn't accept him.
  
  MOST of FOX TV anchors have compared Obama to Hitler?? I'd like to see proof of that. I wouldn't be surprised if Beck has, but what others? Give me names, LMC. I just can't picture Shep Smith, O'Reilly, Greta, Juan Williams, Huckabee, Bret Baier, or Brit Hume doing it.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "pretty much everyone" is what I said. And since I don't watch but clips on the Internet, I will say Beck, Hannity, Palin and when they have Coulter on as a guest. Oh yes, and Oliver North called him anti-American on Hannity's show...that I DID see. Other than that, you tell ME their opinions on Obama. Do those other people support him? Do they respect him? Or do they insult and smear him?
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Well here's more:
regarding the Judge who was killed

"Arizona Central talked to Gonzales in 2009 after Roll allowed a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit to proceed against a local rancher. The case was filed by illegal immigrants and drew the ire of local talk radio hosts, who "spurred audiences into making threats."

In one afternoon, Roll logged more than 200 phone calls. Callers threatened the judge and his family. They posted personal information about Roll online.
"They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,' " Gonzales said.
Both Roll and his wife were given a U.S. Marshals Service protection detail at the time. Roll called the month-long protection experience "unnerving and invasive." According to Arizona Central, authorities identified four men believed to be responsible for the threats, but Roll declined to press charges at the recommendation of the Marshals Service."

ENOUGH YET?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The judge was not the target.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but the point is, he also had his life threatened... by the same forces.
  Why is it that right-wingers use violence so much?
  
  You NEVER saw anybody come to a Bush meeting with guns...this was a new phenomenon when Obama was elected. Why is that?
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  Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You NEVER saw anybody come to a Bush meeting with guns.
  
  I'm sorry, but this isn't provable - all we know is no guns were fired....
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And there were no published reports of guns at Bush political events. It has been reported by the Secret Service that threats against the President Obama's life have increased manifold over those against Bush.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True, Ralph. I experienced the same findings.
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Aficionadaposted 13 years ago
My daughter and son-in-law live somewhat close to where the shooting took place. This hits home with a lot of people.

On the same day, we see news of 14 beheaded bodies found in Acapulco, a Portuguese journalist bludgeoned to death, and gunfire erupting outside a church funeral. There are plenty of fingers to point about plenty of horrors in this world.

Thoughts and prayers go out for families and loved ones of all the victims.
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C.J. Wrightposted 13 years ago
I hope folks do realize that while no party, movement or media outlet is responsible for this. There IS a problem with TONE. There is also a problem with perception. One perception that is very common now is that the Congress can not relate to the common man and woman. Therefore they can not represent us. If you remember during the healthcare vote there were offices being vandalized. Now this. Ballots not bullets folks.
Neither side of the political debate is 100% correct. We all need to realize that before we devolve into civil war.

Arizona is a hotspot. They have had to deal with all the things the rest of us have. On top of that they have the border issues. They are not a good barometer of where the rest of the Country "IS", but may be a good barometer of where we are headed.

We have lost a Federal Judge. We may have lost a sitting congressman. An innocent child was lost in the chaos. Prayer/Comtemplation...what ever you do...do it.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I hope folks do realize that while no party, movement or media outlet is responsible for this."
  
  I disagree. I see exactly who is responsible, have been advocating murder behind the scenes for many years.
  It's unfortunate that people keep down-playing and making excuses for them, but this is one American who won't.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you make excuses for violent liberals like the Weather Underground, Black Panthers, von Brunn, ELF, and the Unibomber?
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Terrorists are terrorists...
  
  I don't blame Palin and believe it or not I am relieved he was not a member of the Tea Party. I do blame the violent rhetoric that has been bandied about too much recently. And you can't deny that it has been. People like this guy are bound to be influenced.
  
  Like someone said, his reading list sounds like one put together by someone in his early 20s to try and impress someone. They also mentioned he had an eclectic reading list. I read both of those books in my 20s, not because I was a true believer but because I was interested in seeing for myself what was in them.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What does that have to do with what happened today??? Why can't you just deal with the horror that is the extreme Right?? Here. Today.
  They are the ones with the murderous mindset. Stop obfuscating, making excuses, jusifying.......the rhetoric of the right is getting people killed. And it needs to be stopped.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The groups and individuals you mentioned are hardly liberals.
  
  Von Brunn, apparently a World War II vet, has a long history of white supremacist writing. His book, "Kill The Best Gentiles," embraces Adolf Hitler's view that Jews concocted World War I as part of a scheme to stab Germany in the back -- a myth the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust.
  
  He also wrote an internet posting complaining that Obama's birth certificate and other documents have not been made public.
  
  Kaczinski:
  
  "I don't think it can be done. In part because of the human tendency, for most people, there are exceptions, to take the path of least resistance. They'll take the easy way out, and giving up your car, your television set, your electricity, is not the path of least resistance for most people. As I see it, I don't think there is any controlled or planned way in which we can dismantle the industrial system. I think that the only way we will get rid of it is if it breaks down and collapses ... The big problem is that people don't believe a revolution is possible, and it is not possible precisely because they do not believe it is possible. To a large extent I think the eco-anarchist movement is accomplishing a great deal, but I think they could do it better... The real revolutionaries should separate themselves from the reformers… And I think that it would be good if a conscious effort was being made to get as many people as possible introduced to the wilderness. In a general way, I think what has to be done is not to try and convince or persuade the majority of people that we are right, as much as try to increase tensions in society to the point where things start to break down. To create a situation where people get uncomfortable enough that they’re going to rebel. So the question is how do you increase those tensions?"
  —Ted Kaczynski, [2]
  [Eco-terrorists like Kaczinski and ELF are hardly liberals.]
  
  I don't recall liberal support for the Black Panthers. Liberals supported Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Revolution, not the black separatism of the Panthers and the Black Muslims. Ditto for the Weather Underground. However, many liberals opposed or came to oppose the Vietnam War as did the Weather Underground, but they didn't agree with the organization's methods.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some liberals did support the Black Panthers, the misguided ones
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's true but very few. Perhaps "making excuses for them" would be a more accurate way to put it. I remember the period quite well, and I qualify as a liberal and I had many liberal friends who had little time for the black separatist movement. I remember hearing a speech in Detroit in the 1960s by a black separatist Milton Henry supporting a "Rerpublic of New Africa" which would be composed of several southern states ceded by the U.S. as a separate country. I recall writing a letter to a Detroit newspaper criticizing the proposal. Most liberals felt the same about Elijah Muhammad's black Muslim movement and the Panthers as well.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_New_Afrika
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  Doc Snowposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We do have a problem with tone. . . but I'm afraid I can't agree that it's equally a problem on all sides.
  
  It is folks such as the Becks, Limbaughs and Hannitys of our medai landscape who are constantly using language that is hateful and/or dehumanizing to describe their political opponents. It is their stock in trade.
  
  The NYT doesn't label its readers as "great Americans" in contradistinction to those who might get their news elsewhere as Hannity does, NBC doesn't advocate violence against climate scientists as Limbaugh has, and the Washington Post doesn't make charges about utterly fictitious "death panels." MSM has its flaws, but hateful and demeaning tone is not one of them.
  
  So. . . if you happen to hear ANY media outlet demeaning people for the sin of holding a different political view--change the channel.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People like Beck and Savage have been warning of this. I guess some would say they were simply transmitting subliminal messages. To each their own. My point is this. The MAJORITY of American's DONT do what this guy did, no matter how passionate their political or religous beliefs are. Radicals are a nasty side effect of all societies. Freedom comes with responsibility. Let's not blame the actions of a mad man on society at large.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tiller was killed,after O'Reilly said day after day, "Tiller the baby killer", after he was ALREADY targeted by Operation Rescue. That man who listened to Beck was planning on killing the people at the Tides Foundation, and then Obama.....
  Did you ever hear of someone going off to kill after watching CNN or MSNBC?
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Chris please take your meds.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That last paragraph - us too!!!
  
  You the people who think you are sane demonize each other!
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  C.J. Wright said - "One perception that is very common now is that the Congress can not relate to the common man and woman. Therefore they can not represent us. "
  
  The Congresswoman was shot at a Safeway (oh the irony) where she scheduled an event to meet folks and answer questions. She was NOT isolated. She was trying to relate - get input. Expect future 'meetings' with your congressman to be held online.
  
  IMO, Congresscritters ARE aware of how they are all demonized - that they are ALL bad, they have ALL sold out. They know there's anger. They can react by reaching out to constituants, as Gifford was or retreating from events that involve risk.
  
  Democracy suffers when they take the second option.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doug, I agree. Perception vs Reality are often two different things. However the actions based on perceptions derived from misconceptions are VERY REAL. That what we are seeing. Thanks for helping make the broader point. Hopefully there will be reconciliation between the government and the governed.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The gunman is quoted as saying "I can't trust our current government " Then k.il.led 6 people."
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  CJ - I don't think reconciliation is the word. Congress should represent regular people - rather than the rich people who can contribute more to their campaign chest. (This is the one point teabaggers and I agree on.) Anyone in high office has reason to be AFRAID of meeting 'regular people'. This is where our system of government is damaged by this kind of tragedy.
  
  The K Street folks will be happy. The congresscritters will be LESS influenced by the concerns of average folks because the insulation of security will silence or at least dampen our voices - but it's security influence peddlers will have no problem with.
  
  If we want to have a face-to-face dialogue with our elected officials - as this Congresswoman was doing - we must not only swear off violence - but rudeness. I believe face-to-face meetings are an essential element of democracy - and face-to-face meets will be lost to safe on-line simulated town-hall meetings that undermine democracy.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with this, Doug.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doug, absolutely agree. The "congresscritters" as you call them are going to have to truely listen and act accordingly. Not simply provide lip service. Let's be clear. BOTH parties are in the pocket of big business. It's bad. I think it's past the point of being polite. I'm not saying I agree with threats of violence or violence, because I'm absolutely aposed to that. However, you can't expect the people to be happy right now. I would again state that this guy's actions were NOT a reflection of the average citizen, no matter what their political persuasion. He is not a sane person and his actions show that.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
"One perception that is very common now is that the Congress can not relate to the common man and woman. Therefore they can not represent us."

Geeee, who says that?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The left prior to 06, the right now..oh wait we have switched again. We are like a wildly swinging pendulum....it's getting scrary. Restricting speach or media outlets as you are obviously proposing would make things worse not better. In tough economic times VIOLENCE ALWAYS INCREASES. Idle hands and all. You can blame a "boogy man" if you like. It's not realistic and it's no more helpfull than the rants of this crazy person who just shot innocent people.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They have been doing it LONG before the tough times hit.
  Go to Fox News Comments and see for yourself what their supporters are all about.
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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
I have no doubt that Loughner is not playing with a full deck. He probably does have significant psychological problems. However, it's also true that certain fundamentalist religious organizations and other fanatical groups of various kinds, by their statements, "wind up" people like Loughner, making them feel justified in committing horrific attacks like this one and like the Oklahoma City bombing. The fact that Loughner probably had serious psychological issues thus is not inconsistent with possible influence by the propaganda of any one of various alienated groups and organizations. Many unanswered questions remain about Loughner. For example, Where did he get the gun? Did he have a stash of other weapons in his home? Did he have a criminal record? Did he belong to a militia or other radical organizations? Had he been diagnosed or treated for mental illness? What was his religious affiliation or beliefs? And so forth.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But Loughner is a confirmed Atheist
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  May well be. My intent was not to blame religion for his action. I'm only suggesting that propaganda from extremist groups of one stripe or another may have contributed to his alienation and motivation. Both the judge and Giffords had received previous death threats as a result of their positions on various issues.
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C.J. Wrightposted 13 years ago
For those who don't remember. During the Carter Administration there were groups who were encouraging tax revolts. They were complaining about the Gold Standard. They still exist. There was a shoot out in West Memphis Arkansas with a group earlier this year. SO to say that this guy is a result of the T party is pre-mature and unfair. I think we are going to find that this person would be most closely aligned with a "Soveriegn Citizen" type of theology. Think OKC bomber Timothy McVeigh. There are approximately 300,000 members of these types of organizations in the country. It's our partisan bickering that's encouraging these groups, not Fox News or the Tparty. Look at history and you will find that during extended periods of war and tough economic times civil unrest increases. Violence of all types increase.
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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
"Look at history and you will find that during extended periods of war and tough economic times civil unrest increases. Violence of all types increase."

Very true.

I agree it's too early to tell what motivated Loughner. Here's a link to an article with information about him. He apparently mistrusted the government, was worried about non-gold backed currency, and his favorite books were Mein Kampf, Animal Farm and the Communist Manifesto. Sounds like a pretty alienated and confused young lad.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/sh … ube-video/
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Beck is fanning the flames, feeding the delusions of individuals, and bringing concepts which are blindly one sided into millions of households, blatantly in support of the radical right. You are, of course, aware that this is where fascism appears in the political spectrum? The extreme right. He seems to be fomenting division and dis-harmony. Who thought up Fox's tagline "Fair and Balanced"? How much does one get paid for BS. Obviously, beaucoup. The rates for unfair and totally unbalanced must be pretty good, too. Hate pays well.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Beck is a menace to domestic tranquility and sanity.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah, it's Becks fault that a psycho who among his favorite books is " Mein Kampf " and " The Communist Manifesto " and is an atheist shot Giffords. He is another Joe Stack as much as you irresponsibly want to tag him as a right winger.
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2besureposted 13 years ago
I pray that she makes it and that she recovers fully. Even a federal judge was murdered. There has got to be law put in place that protect our political leaders.

Also the first amendment should not include the right for television and radio personalities, to incite violent acts against anyone.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I pray that she makes it and that she recovers fully. Even a federal judge was murdered. There has got to be law put in place that protect our political leaders."
  
  There are laws
  
  "Also the first amendment should not include the right for television and radio personalities, to incite violent acts against anyone."
  
  The first amendment does not include that
  
  Could you possibly provide proof that any television or radio personalities are doing that?
  
  If so forward it to your local police department so it can be investigated.
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  2besureposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How about 'Lock and Load' Palin for one.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is one of that maniacs last videos. How can you rationally pin this on any media personality ? This guy is incapable of cogent thought. Get a grip.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10 … HoaZaLbqB4
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  ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, unfortunately I think this video pretty much speaks for itself. How the shooter ended up thinking this way is another question.
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Jim Hunterposted 13 years ago
From the mind of Jared Loughner (Safeway shooter)

"Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I'm informing you for your new currency! If you're treasuerer of a new money system, then you're responsible for the distributing of a new currency. We now know — the treasurer for a new money system, is the distributor of the new currency. As a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information that's accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. Above all, you have your new currency, listener?"

Sounds like a rational guy
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Probably has a HP account.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ron that was kinda funny !
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  Texasbetaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oddly Jim, and I promise this...I thought of you the second I saw that video of this guy.
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  Texasbetaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The currency part...not the rest of it. I don't think you are THAT crazy
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
I find it disgusting that anyone on this forum is using this tragedy to push their agenda about right winders, Palin, Beck, atheists, communists of any group of people. I am done with this forum. I can't take the dogged pursuit of or persecution of 'isms' at the expense of normal compassionate humanity one moment longer. RIP all those who died in the shooting today.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  psyche thank you for some rational thinking.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think anyone is trying to use this incident to "push their agenda." I do think people are trying to figure it out.
  
  And some people are trying to defend the indefensible.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just curious, why do you think Loughner shot 19 people today at a public Giffords political event? He could have just as easily shot people at a department store or athletic event. Don't you think his action suggests some type of political motive beyond insanity? It seems pretty obvious to me.
  
  Here is a comment today on the shooting by the Pima County, Arizona, sheriff"
  
  Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking about Arizona:
  
  "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
  
  "It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
  
  He later added:
  
  DUPNIK: Let me just say one thing, because people tend to poo-poo this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech. But it's not without consequences.
  
  REPORTER: How do you know that that's what caused it.
  
  DUPNIK: You don't.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Words that should be carved in granite.
  
  "And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
  
  Those on the left or the right may disagree about what constitutes 'reasonable, decent people'. But it doesn't matter. If we can't become civil no one by ANY definition of reasonable and decent will run.
  
  (LMC, I love ya, but when I talk about being civil, I'm talking about you, too. You messed up big-time and owe the HP community an apology.)
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've been saying the same thing, Doug. This was evident in the last election. Moderate Republicans were pushed out in favor of the far-right fringe, especially in the primaries. Moderate Democrats were pushed out of Congress, leaving many far-lefters. I know you're a liberal, but I'm sure you'd agree that we need some moderation from both sides...or else, we're doomed to everlasting gridlock and hatred.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with that, Ralph. I don't approve of all the hate speech. Sometimes it's just enough to push an unstable individual over the edge. I really don't like how Palin put crosshairs on certain politicians - totally uncalled for!
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
And their "second amendment solutions."
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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
Here's an up-date from the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po … r=1&hp
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
And yet another Democrat who has to have protection for he and his family!!!

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.)

who represents a district adjacent to Gabrielle Giffords's, said that Saturday's shooting is a consequence of the vitriolic rhetoric that has arisen over the past few years among extreme elements of the Tea Party.

"The climate has gotten so toxic in our political discourse, setting up for this kind of reaction for too long. It's unfortunate to say that. I hate to say that,"

Anyone know of a Republican who needs protection from this violence?? Didn't think so.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They probably just don't whine THAT much
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Tea Party has not even been around a few years yet.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, so you think they'll get around to shooting Republicans next?
  
  How bout we stop them first.
  
  They've been around since 08 heavily, and lightly before that.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Let me help you with that, LMC. All the following Republicans have received death threats:
  
  Eric Cantor
  Jean Schmidt
  Mitch McConnell
  John Boehnaer
  Newt Gingrich
  Jim Bunning
  Henry Hyde
  Tom Ross
  Sarah Palin
  Bill Johnson
  George Bush
  John McCain
  Ronald Reagan
  
  You really need to be better informed before making such statements.
  
  And yes, I do agree that the vitriol should be toned down. Have you ever seen me use hate speech against Obama? I can disagree without hating. You, however, seem to be filled with hatred for ALL conservatives.
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Kidgasposted 13 years ago
It is a terrible tragedy and a sad day for America.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A sign of the times.
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  Kidgasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
"They probably just don't whine THAT much".

Tell that to those families. Despicable statement. Taking life so cavalierly.

****

When asked if she had any enemies, Giffords' father reportedly wept. "'Yeah,'" he told The New York Post. "'The whole Tea Party.'"

Deal with it! Stop trying to act like it's everybody who's doing it. It's NOT.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not everybody certainly. First and foremost it is you who is spreading hatred and vitriol. Your performance is unmatched. And considering the circumstances, seriously disgusting.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So right, Misha.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many people are spreading vitriol from Fox News to the Militias, Nativists, the fundamentalist religious extremists, LaRouche followers and a variety of Nazi hate groups happily exercising their First Amendment rights. A small number of alienated, mentally unbalanced people like Loughner, von Brunn, Scott Roeder, et al, feel justified in responding violently to the propaganda. It's undeniable that the amount of political vitriol and extremism has increased in recent years.
  
  You don't like LMC's explanations, how about giving us yours instead of just sniping from the sidelines?
  
  Bloodshed Puts New Focus on Vitriol in Politics
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po … al.html?hp
  
  "The shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords and others at a neighborhood meeting in Arizona on Saturday set off what is likely to be a wrenching debate over anger and violence in American politics. "
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mine you won't accept anyway, so I don't bother. And her explanation is as good (or bad) as anybody else's IMO, I just don't like the hatred she spreads here on HP.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You do your share, too, with your little conservative, contentless troll snipes from the sidelines.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Ralph, I love you too
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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
More on Loughner:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po … er.html?hp

He also briefly discusses how he defines terrorism, although he never explains why it is a topic he cares about.

“If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon. I define terrorist,” he wrote. “This, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon. If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem. You call me a terrorist.”

As recently as Saturday, he posted a message on his MySpace account hinting that he was going away.

“Goodbye,” he wrote at about 5 a.m. Saturday. “Dear friends . . . Please don’t be mad at me.”
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
"Law enforcement officials said members of Congress reported 42 cases of threats or violence in the first three months of 2010, nearly three times the 15 cases reported during the same period a year earlier. Nearly all dealt with the health care bill, and Giffords was among the targets."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congressw … Q--?cmp=fb

So what is the lesson to be learned here? Is it that hateful, misleading rhetoric isn't the way to go, or is it that them anti-american, anti-god, evil, elitist dirty liberals had better not mess up their America?
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Rafiniposted 13 years ago
I think Giffords is commendable for her courage in going through with her meet & greet despite receiving numerous death threats.

My thoughts & prayers go out to all victims of today's shooting.
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
I don't see LMC, Deeds and Hughes posting out-rightly demeaning, hateful, often petty and generally misleading threads and posts on a pretty much daily basis.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In LMCs case you are either in denial or not looking to hard.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Tony. I always enjoy discussions with Doug and Ralph, but LMC always seems so angry. Of course, there are those from the right on here who are just as bad.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Angry, I agree, but I don't really hear her calling others here names and attacking their characters. And usually when she is saying mean things about politicians or fox news she does include have a valid reason for being upset with them.
  
  I may be mistaken, I really haven't been following the threads in here, and it's true I generally agree with her points and so may not notice her vitriol as much, I admit that's possible.
  
  Hughes and Deeds only lose it when the others are being impossible.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I really like Doug and Deeds. We can disagree and still be respectful to each other.
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Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago
"A Turning Point in the Discourse, But in Which Direction?" Matt Bai in the NYT

Within minutes of the first reports Saturday that Representative Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, and a score of people with her had been shot in Tucson, pages began disappearing from the Web. One was Sarah Palin’s infamous “cross hairs” map from last year, which showed a series of contested Congressional districts, including Ms. Giffords’s, with gun targets trained on them. Another was from Daily Kos, the liberal blog, where one of the congresswoman’s apparently liberal constituents declared her “dead to me” after Ms. Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi in House leadership elections last week.

Odds are pretty good that neither of these — nor any other isolated bit of imagery — had much to do with the shooting in Tucson. But scrubbing them from the Internet couldn’t erase all evidence of the rhetorical recklessness that permeates our political moment. The question is whether Saturday’s shooting marks the logical end point of such a moment — or rather the beginning of a terrifying new one. More here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po … ai.html?hp
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What?? A liberal blogger was angry with Giffords and said the congresswoman was "dead" to him/her?
  
  That's a great piece, Ralph. Thanks for the link. It shows that political hatred is nothing new and didn't start with Obama or the Tea Party. I do, however, believe it's worse than ever now. Sad.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No it only suggests that there are fools on all sides, which surely we all agree on. Though honestly the term 'dead to me' I don't really see being an encouragement to violence or an indication of hatred. The term has long meant simply that one is finished with someone or thing. Not an allusion to doing violence.
  
  Though of course i do agree that hateful rhetoric and misleading info have long been a part of politics, and are clearly at an amped-up stage once again.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree - I didn't think the "dead to me" was a big deal, but apparently, others did. And yes, as I said, the hatred seems worse now than ever. Or maybe it's because we have more access to news now? I wonder...
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, lol. You won't believe I'm saying this, so let me be careful how I say it.
  
  As the religious system which has long controlled our culture loses its influence, I think we may need something new -and IMO more truthful- to replace it.
  
  Respect, civility, morality itself is suffering from the loss of the institution.
  
  But only because we haven't figured out yet how to live without it on a societal basis. I personally would like to see all of our churches turned into community centers where all could gather and learn. We're too divided. Nothing unites us anymore. It breeds an us and them.
  
  The societal basis of morality was generally bankrupt IMO from the start. But it did collar in blatant indecency within the people at large, I gotta give it that.
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
I do agree, however, and wish we all really did, that nothing will progress until we ALL learn to try to *work together*.

That requires being reasonable, and putting actual progress and the good of the country ahead of political gain and petty side-issues. And it requires that the people -us- try to rise above the games that some of our leaders and media people are trying to play.

We can't hate each other, and demonize each other. If we the people have no respect for each other, we can't really expect our must-be-reelected leaders to bother with it.

The sad thing is that every one of the four, five, six or so conflicting political factions have good, valid and important points to make. The party lines keep us from accomplishing even those which we all could agree on.

And the misinformation campaigns are rampant, at the people's level as well as at the leaders', media and various pundits' levels.

Stop to hear all sides and really try and put some thought into it.

None of us are anti-american. Except for maybe Misha, I think he may be a russian spy. None of us are out to turn us into a communist country. None of us are really wanting to allow individual states or the federal govt to legislate our morality. None of us here anyway, I think. None of us really want the torah determining our laws. None of us want muslims taking over, etc etc etc.

Say you disagree with someone's position only if you can explain why and in a reasonable manner. Make reasonable arguments, don't attack peoples' characters.

If you can't post a reasonable and civil post, then for all of our sakes, just be quiet and think about it until you can.

I too am guilty, I know. I also know it's hard to stay reasonable and civil when those you're conversing with don't. But life is too darned short. The country is too divided and if the people can't be reasonable and remember to genuinely and actively care about each other, (even people on the internet whom we don't really know) then our country is doomed anyway, and what our leaders do doesn't matter much at all.

When political arguments consist of demeaning and degrading each other, we demean and degrade ourselves. Don't admire, follow, respect, believe and --most importantly-- don't vote for such people.
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
Listen, half of HubPages forum users are paying to block out your voices, it ought to be giving you guys a clue. We don't mind political discussion. It's all the constant pettiness, misinformation and outright hatred that we object to.

And again, yes, I know I've been guilty of it as well.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
You want hatred? This is hatred:

"Just remember that as you are politicing for your reelection. It only takes one piece of lead. . . . Kill the f*cking Senator! Kill the f*cking Senator! I'll donate the lead. . . . Now that you've passed your health-care bill, let the violence begin. Let the violence begin."

"By your attempts to overtake this country with socialism, somebody's gonna get to you one way or another and blow your f*cking brains out, and I hope it does happen. If I have the chance, I would do it."

This man, his cousin and Senator Murray all claim that Glenn Beck incited him, he was "under his spell".
You want to keep white-washing it, "Oh, it's not THAT that's the problem"......it IS.

Stop acting like these people are normal, like they can just be decent and get along. They WON'T...
How much is it going to take for you to get that? More people to die?

I'm not apologizing for anything. But I will get off these forums. I see I'm not wanted. It really is amazing that you call me the hater, yet you give these people a pass. This is not your everyday political discourse, it is homegrown terrorism. Hopefully you will see that before too long.

"As Palin "stands with" Beck, his rhetoric is credited with inspiring death threats
October 29, 2010 2:33 pm ET" ---google it
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not giving Palin or Beck a pass. I thought I made that clear earlier here and on numerous former threads. I don't care for either of the aforementioned, and I think ALL the hatred should be stopped. And yes, I agree that MOST of it comes from the far right. Even worse, these are usually the folks who are the most heavily armed.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the tea party and anarchists are worse than the far right. The far right isn't really a threat anymore, IMO. I truly don't believe the people at large trust the FAR right anymore.
  
  But mebbe we define the term differently. To me FAR right just means really religious and pushing it.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I consider the Tea Party and religious extremists far right - like those who kill abortion doctors for God. I agree that anarchists are scary!
  
  BTW, you never did answer my question about roasted sweet taters. lol
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well the tea party from what i understand is half libertarians or anarchists and half far right fundie christians. They really don't agree on a whole lot which is just one of those funny things about the tea party.
  
  Still it does demonstrate I guess that people with strongly opposing views can unite when they really want to, to achieve common goals.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What question?!!!
  
  I remember the thread, but not the question.
  
  And my hubby's been bugging me to get off the derned computer, so I gotta be running for now.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  [i]f there is retributive justice [Sen. Jesse Helms] will get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.
  Nina Totenberg - Liberal
  
  I hope his wife feeds him(Clarence Thomas) lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease.
  Julianne Malveaux - Liberal
  
  For hypocrisy, for sheer gall, [Newt] Gingrich should be hanged.
  Richard Cohen - Liberal
  
  Snipers Wanted(caption during GW Bush footage)
  Craig Kilborn - Liberal
  
  And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq “We have our good days and our bad days.” We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say “This is one of our bad days” and pull the trigger.
  St. Petersburg Democrat Club
  
  [i]f we were in other countries, we would all right now, all of us together, all of us together would go down to Washington and we would stone Henry Hyde to death! We would stone him to death! [crowd cheers] Wait! Shut up! Shut up! No shut up! I’m not finished. We would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and we’d kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families.
  Alec Baldwin - Liberal
  
  If President Clinton would pardon me I would whip Starr’s ass right now. I will get a crew from Brooklyn and we will stomp him like, like, we’re Savion Glover. We’ll stomp him like it’s bringing da noise.
  Chris Rock - Liberal
  
  Shoot him with a .44 caliber Bulldog.
  Spike Lee - Liberal
  
  He’s (Ken Starr) one more mistake away from not having any kneecaps.
  James Carville - Liberal
  
  There is a sound case to be made for dropping a tactical nuclear weapon on the Cuban section of Miami. The move would be applauded heartily by most Americans. Alas, Operation Good Riddance would require the sort of mature political courage sadly lacking in Washington, D.C., these days.
  Alexander Cockburn - Liberal
  
  O Lord, give Dick Cheney’s Heart, Our Sacred Secret Weapon, the strength to try one more time! For greater love hath no heart than that it lay down its life to rid the planet of its Number One Human Tumor.
  Tony Hedra - HuffPo Liberal
  
  "A spoiled child (Bush) is telling us our Social Security isn't safe anymore, so he is going to fix it for us. Well, here's your answer, you ungrateful whelp: [audio sound of 4 gunshots being fired.] Just try it, you little bastard. [audio of gun being cocked]."
  The Randy Rhoades Show - Liberal
  
  "I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't understand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health."
  Charles Barron - Liberal
  
  "Republicans don't believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don't give a hoot about human beings, either can't or won't. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm."
  Michael Feingold - Liberal
  
  "If I got (Condoleezza Rice) a— on camera, I would put my Mars Air Jordans so far up her butt that the Mayo Clinic would have to remove them."
  Spike Lee - Again
  
  The "Right" has no monopoly on inflammatory speech but since when is the individual excused their excesses or crimes because they "were just following orders?"
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody's excusing anyone's crimes.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ha! Pretty good stuff!
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph, let's grab our spacesuits, there's still time
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for sharing. Please stay away from public political rallys.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  CML i have always admired you, and your perseverance.
  
  I don't know who called you a hater, it wasn't what I meant to imply. You do sound angry, and you have reason to be angry.
  
  I just suggest that we ALL need to remember to be civil. No I don't think anyone here is truly incapable of being normal and civil, even if reasonable may be a stretch.
  
  But something I had to learn --and am still learning-- is that I can only change or control myself, and that alone is a big enough task for me, and all that I am really answerable for to anyone, especially myself.
  
  If you leave, you leave Deeds and Hughes and Carter and the very few others with stamina enough for the constant watch on their own. Don't do that. You know the job is too big.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm not apologizing for anything. But I will get off these forums. I see I'm not wanted. It really is amazing that you call me the hater, yet you give these people a pass."
  
  Buh bye.
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barryrutherfordposted 13 years ago
I think you know my views on the proliferation of Firearms in America

so I wont burden you any further.
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I am DB Cooperposted 13 years ago
He lists his favorite books as Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, and We The Living by Ayn Rand. Judging by that alone, I'm guessing this guy was very impressionable and had no idea what he stood for.

I'm all for reading books from a variety of perspectives, but if your three favorite books are by three writers who would probably kill each other if stuck in a room together, you probably are slightly confused on what you really believe in. He might as well have said his favorite books were The Diary of Anne Frank and The Turner Diaries. I question whether he even read the books he listed. When you proudly list Mein Kampf as one of your favorite books on your MySpace page, you're probably just a troubled person desperate for attention.

I doubt that this young man was closely affiliated with any political groups. From what I've seen from his MySpace, he was anti-government, anti-Federal Reserve. He takes a strong stance on speaking proper English, even though he writes very poorly. That would lead me to believe he takes a very strong stance against illegal immigrants.

It's not fair to blame a political movement for this attack. I do hope that this raises awareness about the tone that some groups have taken. Some of the rhetoric has a pseudo-violent, "overthrow the government" kind of tone that rational people understand as "make change with your vote", but today's events have reminded us that not everyone listening is rational. If you tell 10 million people that we need to target certain politicians and get rid of them, 9,999,999 of those people might understand that you want them to support and vote for the opponents of those politicians. It's the 1 nutcase that doesn't understand that causes tragedies like this.
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  kerrygposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My thoughts exactly.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Totally agree. I too wonder whether he has actually read any of these "favorites".
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logic,commonsenseposted 13 years ago
The animal that did this has no redeeming social value and it's too bad the cops didn't kill him first, since he didn't kill himself. Not one of the victims deserved what happened to them.
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uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years ago
Obama’s critics keep blasting him for Chicago-style politics. So, fine. Channel your inner Al Capone and go gangsta against your foes. Let ‘em know that if they aren’t with you, they are against you, and will pay the price.
Roland Martin - Liberal

You’ve given it your best shot, you’ve tried numerous times to talk with the Republicans, to negotiate, to meet them halfway on every single matter before the American people. But they hate you for many reasons. It’s time you break kneecaps (bold in original). It’s time to destroy the Republican Party. They don’t deserve a seat at the table when all they want to do is score political points by being the Party of No.
David Bourgeois - Liberal

# September 2, 2004: Gun Shot Fired Into Huntington, WV, Republican Headquarters.
# September 3, 2004: Windows Broken, Anti-Bush Messages Scrawled At Gallatin County, MT, Republican Headquarters.
# September 13, 2004: Swastika Drawn On Duluth, MN, Resident’s Lawn, Signs Also Defaced With Words “Nazi” And “Liar.”
# September 13, 2004: Swastika Drawn On Duluth, MN, Resident’s Lawn, Signs Also Defaced With Words “Nazi” And “Liar.”
# September 23, 2004: Office Ransacked During Break-In At Vilas County, WI, Republican Headquarters, Obscene Words And Graphic Pictures Sprayed On Campaign Signs.
# October 5, 2004: Gun Shots Fired Into Knoxville, TN, Bush-Cheney ‘04 Office, Shattering Office’s Glass Front Doors.
# October 5, 2004: AFL-CIO ACTIVISTS RANSACK BUSH HEADQUARTERS IN ORLANDO, The Orlando Sentinel . . . part of 20 coordinated union attacks across U.S.
# October 15, 2004: Someone Lined Window Sill With Bullet Casings At Littleton, NH, Republican Headquarters.
# October 20, 2004: Rocks Thrown Through Windows At Multnomah County, OR, Republican Party Headquarters.

Old Story ... Let's Jump Ahead

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl.
Barach Obama,June 2008

# October, 2008: Sarah Palin effigy hanging in someone’s yard
# December, 2008: Sarah Palin’s church was set on fire by arsonists while children were inside.
# October, 2008: McCain-Palin campaign bus coming under gunfire in New Mexico.
# October, 2008: the home of a Republican headquarters manager in central Florida was shot up that same week as the shooting of the McCain-Palin bus in New Mexico. McCain supporters in the area woke to find the brake lines on their cars severed, their telephone and cable television lines cut, and political graffiti scratched into automobile paint and scrawled on their homes.
# October 17, 2008: an unprovoked assault by an enraged Democrat against a [female] McCain volunteer in midtown Manhattan: “Defendant grabbed the sign the informant was holding, broke the wooden stick that was attached to it, and then struck informant in the face.”(from police report)
# Dec 12, 2008 – Wasila Church Bombing (Sarah Palin’s Church)

Still Not Recent Enough, because this is the season of hope and change.

# March 22, 2010: Bullet shot through window of Republican Congressman Eric Cantor’s Richmond, Virginia campaign Office.
# March 24, 2010: Republican Congresswoman Jean Schmidt of Ohio receives telephoned death threats.
# March 24, 2010: Republican Congresswoman Jenny Brown of Florida receives telephoned death threats.
# March 26, 2010: Windows Broken at Albemarle County GOP
March 26, 2010: Mike Malloy, calls for death of Linbaugh, O’Reilly and Beck
# April 13, 2010 Young Republican Couple Savagely Beaten Friday night
April 18, 2010 – Erik Pidrman threatened to murder GOP Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite
# June 28, 2010 – Lib talker Malloy on Cheney: Hope The Miserable Bastard Dies (Link)
# August 25, 2010 – Gunshot shatters Glass Door of GOP Headquarters
# October 5, 2010 - Top Dem Official in NJ slaps GOP staffer
# October 25, 2010 – Denver GOP Headquarters vandalized
# October 28, 2010 – Man pulls knife on Republican Candidate

Well, Obama did say he wanted to kick their(BP's) asses. And then some people fired bullets at a BP gas station. So it’s Obama’s fault, right?

Obama surrounded himself, for years , with men of moderate speech and actions - Like Jeremiah Wright, who in June 2009 said, "Them Jews ain't gonna let me see Barrack." Sardonically, the second most racist thing done in Washington D.C. that day - the first was the shooting at the Holocaust Museum

or Like William Ayres, who as a member of the weather underground took part in or facilitated:
7 October 1969 – Bombing of Haymarket Police Statue in Chicago
6 December 1969 – Bombing of several Chicago Police cars
13 February 1970 – Bombing of several police vehicles of the Berkeley, California, Police Department.
16 February 1970 – Bombing of Golden Gate Park branch of the San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen.

Never Mind - this will never sway the oh so reasonable Liberals into understanding that violence is the necessary progression toward the Liberal Utopia. It is required to compel free people to bend to a new paradigm, submit to hope and change.
One need only look at the history of the Liberal state to understand that that way requires violence.
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1. 91
  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, there's more than enough hate on both sides. I hope LMC reads this.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think it will resonate with her and all of a sudden she will see that possibly her hatred is unnecessary?
  
  I certainly don't, if you haven't noticed it is always the same people who call others haters while spewing their hatred.
  
  I may be partisan in my beliefs but I refrain from attacks on these people, although they are certainly warranted.
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Aficionadaposted 13 years ago
In my opinion, two factors in the increase in hatred are the speed of all of our communications and the media's battle for an audience. We hear about hateful acts immediately, not only because the media think the public needs to know about them, but because the media have to capture an audience in order to pay their bills.

But even more: when we have opportunities to discuss matters, we are able to respond to one another so quickly, that we don't always think about the sound of what we are saying or writing and what it will mean to the people hearing or reading it. That's true not only on the internet, but especially here. If everyone were somehow forced to slow down their responses, I believe some of the heat would dissipate.
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But even more: when we have opportunities to discuss matters, we are able to respond to one another so quickly, that we don't always think about the sound of what we are saying or writing and what it will mean to the people hearing or reading it. That's true not only on the internet, but especially here
  
  You wanna know about hate trying being a conservative on the Huffington Post.Talk about hate speech !I probably have the record for most deleted comments !
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