"one should always aim at being interesting rather than exact"
Yes, i know that checking your spelling and grammer make for a better hub score, but is anyone else sick of other hubbers who you arent familiar with commenting on your page that you misspelled something? Lets chat people!
You misspelled grammar, sorry I couldn't let it go.
In all seriousnessness, don't worry about it and try your best.
LOL, but you missed the fact there should also have been an apostrophe in the word 'arent', i.e. it should have been 'aren't'
PS, What is 'seriousnessness'
so far i dont have any hope for this discussion. The misspellings are on purpose to see if anyone would actually take this seriously without having to be a smartass about it.
You totally missed the irony of my post. It was a joke.
which leads me to the people who believe in seriousnessless, which is seriousneslessism, the actual belief.
sorry to correct you, but I think 'hubscore' is one word
None of us are perfect all the time. Do not worry about all the corrections...Write about what you love and any words that are spelled incorrectly you can EDIT at your own leisure..
Try to appreciate positive criticism. When readers comment on your hub negatively take it as a suggestion to improve your hub.
You may have missed the memo here on the new Editbot thing.
uhh...how could the previous posters have missed the memo if their responses are from 4 years ago and editbot was introduced this week???
when spambots resurrect old threads, the best thing is to flag and ignore, not respond as if the conversation is current. The spambot post that resurrected this thread has been deleted, so your response makes it look like you are the culprit.
I'm not sure how I stumbled into this unfortunate thread and no, I did not notice until the snarks began that it was from 4 years ago so, yes, it makes zero sense since the Editbot was just released this week!!!!!
I certainly hope you are not suggesting that I'm a spambot. I'd be totes offended. Just kidding. Hopefully something else will come along to distract you from this bad form in a forum. In the meantime, gushing, superfluous, mega, redundant, overblown apologies. God knows what the world needs right now is better form in forums.
Sorry bzirkone - I thought you had bumped the thread. I didn't see a spambot post before this.
See - bumping old threads can bring innocent bystanders like yourself into an old thread and cause a lot of confusion.
All good. Confusion is often the highlight of my day.
Your Hubs are impeccable, BTW. Nicely done. Hopefully you are making crap-loads of cash here.
I would prefer to have someone know that there is an error, so I can correct it before anyone else can see it. It is a bad reflection of my reputation. If your zipper was unzipped, wouldn't you want someone to tell you?
I hate reading misspellings and typos. I make them myself. I even proof read my hubs and miss them. But at some stage in the future I will revisit a hub and find glaring errors which are embarrassing to me because I pride myself on my ability to spell correctly.
I have been known to correct someone's spelling. I prefer to do it by email, or on the odd occasion on the comments section of the hub where I have also said, please delete this comment.
It's been a while since I've bothered, because if no-one else cares, why should I?
I actually like when someone points out mistakes to me. Feel a bit embarrassed - but better to feel embarrassed for a moment or two, than to have someone read your hubs and vow never to go back because of the typos - not that I'm aware of that happening, but you never know - that person could have been about to offer writing work or something!
I care very deeply. If someone finds a grammatical mistake or spelling error on one of my hubs (and we all make mistakes and don't see them), I would definitely want to know. I appreciate the concern of others in maintaining the quality of my hubs (we've even had amusing grammatical discussions in the comments section of one hub).
You are obviously here as a creative writer, not to make money. I'm the money making type for the most part so I won't comment on the actual content.
When I visit hubs I occasionally see a spelling mistake but I ignore them for the most part. It's understandable to have one or two, especially if you have hundreds of hubs.
However from looking at just one of yours I found 5 spelling mistakes and one grammatical error (no punctuation after fullstop) in one small paragraph:
"Switch turned on like a light, and sonded like the most spikey haired, blue collard shirt, bright white teeth guy you could imagine. he got thesale, plus 3 up sells, and overnight shiping. As the call ended he made a joke, laughed a heartly laugh, and thanked the customer."
I can completely understand why someone would leave comments about this or rate a hub down. Some might even report it, which could end with your hub being unpublished as poor quality.
I'd highly recommend using a spell checker.
Say it like it is, Wry - lol don't miss anything!
It actually never occurred to me to go look at the OP's hubs, but I did after reading your reply.
Yup, me too.
I have commented on spelling and grammar once or twice, but I always say "feel free to delete this comment" - it's not meant for publication, just to help the Hubber.
Pink Umbrella, those who correct you are probably trying to be helpful. Spelling mistakes are very distracting for people who can spell - they're likely to get so annoyed, they won't finish the story, and won't read any of your other work. Using a spell checker is not hard.
I don't have anyone to proof-read for me, so I'm bound to miss a few things. I don't mind if people politely point out errors, as I'd like to fix them up . Yes, lots of sloppy grammar/spelling is distracting
I think that the key word here is polite.
We all make mistakes in our writing, and a polite well-intended email is fine, but I was once sent an email that criticised my headings and contained re-writes of whole paragraphs. I am sure that it was well-meant but I hadn't asked for it, and the whole tone of the communication was critical and hostile. It just put my back up and I ignored their comments, some of which were probably valid.
If you're not interested in being corrected then move on pass it after someone says something. That's all I can say about it.
Sometimes mispellings are intentional SEO. I guarantee they don't offend the web searchers who can't spell or who aren't native born American English speakers. I don't usually put that stuff in the title (unless I feel like getting a ton of nasty comments). But I have written entire hubs for the phonetic ones among us.
Interesting. I don't think my over grammatical brain could handle that. It might explode! I find it hard enough to switch between "UK English" and "American English". I can see where such content would come in handy though, especially with complicated brand names.
However after looking at some of the hubs by the OP, I doubt SEO was the intention.
You're a money hubber, of course you can get your grammatical head around it. But perhaps more practice with American English is needed. We have many many people here who buy online who aren't native speakers. I started doing this when I saw the spellings that people were using to get to my site, when I had made an unintentional typo.
Well I have about fifty hub topics up my sleeve - I just keep finding new ones!
By the time I'm done them I might start to see some decent "badly spelt" keywords in analytics that I can start to use.
I would appreciate comments or notification regarding spelling errors, but I'm really type A with grammar and spelling. To be honest, if I was hub-hopping and ran across a hub with that many spelling and grammatical errors, I would flag it.
pink, it's great to be interesting, but you're doing so through the written word when you're online. Everyone misses typos now and then, but consistent errors in spelling and grammar will only distance much of your audience.
As far as correcting you, I wouldn't; I do enough of that all day. I think it's up to you to decide how you want your articles to be received.
I don't correct anyone, yet, because no one has asked me to. I would like to see a feedback feature for correct Standard American English. Until that time arrives, I won't correct individuals.
However, I will say that I want the quality of work here at HP to be as high as possible. To that end, I think we should all strive to improve our writing skills.
I also agree with Izzy. I am in the process of adjusting the keywords on many of my hubs. I was surprised at the number of errors I had in some of my articles. I am working on correcting them all.
I haven't been corrected for spelling yet (although I have found my own spelling errors sometimes) but a couple times people have been kind enought o correct a fact or grammar mistake for me - I consider it a kindness and I'm happy to make the corrections. I have corrected people I feel like I know from forums, but only in a helpful way. If I was making lots of errors I think I would get harder on myself, not on the people who are nice enough to try to help me! If you really don't care about your errors, why come in the forums to complain about people who are probably trying to be helpful? It doesn't make sense to me!
im so sorry i wasted your time posting. and here's what : not all of them are trying to be helpful. I have stated over and over again the reasons why i dont usually spellcheck, and still i have people announcing to me that i have errors. That is why. Now, i came on here to see if anyone else was tired of being corrected, so if you havnt been, why are you wasting my time posting?
I do care whether I make mistakes - it isn't all about content for me, its also about how much time and energy I spend on my work - I want it to be as perfect as I can get it. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to write.
I did answer your silly question by stating that I care and I actually appreciate the people who take some time to offer me corrections of all kinds. So the answer is "NO! I am not tired of being corrected. I appreciate it!" That's what most of us are saying to you.
What I really don't appreciate is people who obviously don't care coming into the forums and trying to make the rest of us sound like we're pedantic and nitpicking. Writing is an exacting profession - if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!! I never consider the time I spend on the forums a waste, except when I waste a little time trying to explain myself to someone who obviously doesn't want to know the truth about what hubbers think of corrections. Good luck to you - on the strength of what you've said in this thread I could not be bothered to read your work!
If you are tired of being corrected, stop making so many mistakes! Doing this is really disrespectful to those who write here and are trying to earn money because poor writing lowers the quality of the entire site. When quality disappears, so does income.
You may not care, but many others here do. I think you posted here with the assumption that you would find a lot of moral support but are angry because you didn't. Quality writing includes more than just being able to string words and thoughts together in a good way. It is also doing so correctly so that the reader can clearly understand and enjoy someone's work.
Most here want to be proud of what they produce and proud of this site. If you do not want that also, then perhaps you should consider starting your own site so that you can write whatever you please.
I don't want errors in my own stuff (and they're going to get through at times), but I don't really want anyone pointing them out. If the error were to involve facts being questioned then, of course, I'd prefer someone mention them.
Something I've noticed is that it is often those who say they're sticklers for grammar and spelling, and who point out others' errors, who often have writing with far more errors than "the average online writer" may. I don't want to be the person who claims to be a stickler for grammar, points out 2 errors in someone else's 600-word Hub, but has 5 errors in his own three-sentence comment somewhere.
Personally, I think if someone wants to put intentional wrong-spellings in his work (for his own reasons) it's his business - not mine. (I sometimes put intentional wrong-grammar in my writing for my own reasons.) If someone has loads of unintentional errors in his work it's his problem - not mine. (The road to "heck" is often paved with good intentions. I pretty much think people ought to concentrate on paving their own road to wherever it is they hope to go.)
The other side to all this "mind-my-own-business" thinking is, though, that I don't think writing that's loaded with poor grammar and spelling is ever very interesting (and I don't think too many people think it is).
I don't know... I kind of think everyone ought to just relax, do whatever they happen to do, and not take it personally when someone else thinks differently about things like errors.
Being a teacher I have occasionally sent someone an email with corrections and have always received a very grateful reply. I would be glad too if someone took the trouble to improve the quality of my hubs. It all helps to raise the general standard of the HubPages site and surely that is a good thing for all of us. Only once the person didn't react and left all the spelling errors in their hub. I then decided to ignore that hubber as in "OK, suit yourself then!".
Devil's Advocate (sort of): Not so much on here but on Helium, I've had well intended people pick up on something that was either a real error or one they thought was an error but wasn't. Often, it has been someone who said they're a teacher.
There have been times I've actually been appreciative, and times I haven't (but have pretended to be, just because I knew the person meant well). There was one time when I had actually used the commas correctly; but the person seemed to have it in her mind that I meant something different from what my commas clearly indicated, and she sent me tips on comma use that would have been correct had I meant to say what she presumed I meant to say.
On Helium , the "We-re-all-here-to-learn" thinking got to be too much for me. This isn't at all intended to seem hostile, or lacking in appreciation that some people mean well when they send e.mails about grammar or typing errors; but I wasn't there (and I'm not here) "to learn".
I don't know everything (not even everything about grammar). Like everyone else, I make typing and grammar mistakes (or if they're not mistakes they're something I've chosen to do because I have some reason). Still, as I'm guessing many Hubbers may have been, I'm one of those people who always got - like - 98th percentile in standardized English tests, and "A's" in English. Having been strong in English all my life doesn't mean "being perfect" in it, and it doesn't mean there's nothing to learn. In the "scheme of life", doing well in English isn't a very impressive claim to be able to make.
As many Hubbers are, though, I'm over 50 years old, and I've been out of school, and using my imperfect-but-strong English skills for a long time now. I know this is going to come across as obnoxious, but I can't help how I feel. It's been a very long time since I've out of school and looking for any English tips from a teacher.
Maybe that thinking is obnoxious and wrong and closed-minded, but when people get to be over 40, 50, 60, etc., they've lived enough life that they can't always take something like their grammar mistakes on Hubs all that seriously. Life has a way of coloring our priorities, and time has a way of making our English grades pretty insignificant "in the scheme of things".
My thing (and I'm guessing I'm not alone) is that I always put in a really good effort on here (whether that's related to my use of English or something else I do on here). I'm 100% certain, though, that I have never put in a 100%-perfect effort on here. I'm here in my spare time. Sometimes I'm more concerned with what it is I want to share than with sharing it in absolutely perfect grammar.
I'm mildly horrified when I spot one of my own typos,and I fix it. Still, though, typos show up in newspapers and books. They aren't great, but when I run into someone else's I just think, "Oh... typo," and move on. I don't underestimate the ideal of aiming for perfect, and if Hubs were going into medical or science journals perfection would be far less optional. Let's face it, though: Hubs are Hubs, and in the "scheme of Hubs" achieving decent enough, even if imperfect, quality isn't so bad.
What a shame. When we stop learning we atrophy. My now 98 year old grandma learned to go on the Internet at 90! It takes no time at all to click on the spellcheck button. Don't you mind that if your hubs are full of spelling errors people will think that you are an ignorant, uneducated person? You are not here to learn? Like any other part of the body the brain has to be kept fit and alive: Use it or Lose it.
lisa- i hope by saying you always put in a really good effort on hubpages, you arent implying that i am not. Im just not the best speller, that is all. yes, sometimes i spellcheck, but sometimes i do not. i have a 2 year old. its a wonder i can get a hub on here at all let alone have time to spellcheck.
I would love for anyone that read my hubs to correct me ASAP, because when I read them later and find a glaring error I'm ashamed that I missed. I know that I'm not perfect, and I don't mind being corrected. So please, anyone if I make any mistakes, email me and let me know. Let me just add, I find it very difficult to read anything that's not well written in any sense of the word, spelling, grammar, etc.
Pink Umbrella: I once read a short story published about a girl lost in the winds of the "fourth dimension" (I am a Sci-Fi fam). I was astounded not only about the almost complete disregard for proper grammar, spelling and punctuation, but also by the clarity of thought, the depth and creativity of the writing. In the end I was very glad I worked through the difficult reading job to finish the story.
You wanted to chat; lets do so. We can talk about HP vs facebook or blogs. Or about quality writing. Or about creativity and depth - some have it and can go far while others don't.
hp verses facebook? well, when i go online, i check my facebook and hubpages before i do anything else. mostly because im friends with alot of writers on facebook.
Not really what I was referring to. The writing style on facebook or other social sites, or even most blogs, is not the same as what is generally expected on HubPages.
Hubs are expected to be more of a magazine quality article, or perhaps one published in a newspaper. Not only is the quality of the words, the meaning if you will, important but the organization of those words, the grammar, spelling and so forth is more important as well.
You succeed admirably at the first (better than I do), but as others have pointed out you are letting yourself down in the organization end of it.
It is your choice, of course. If you are writing simply for the pleasure of putting words on paper that is one thing, but if you are attempting to give a reader a pleasant experience as well then that is quite another.
if there are an readers out there who dont get a pleasent experience from my hubs, then there are plenty of other pages to thumb through...just a reminer
I guess that's my point. I enjoyed reading your hub, but the only reason I finished it was because it was yours. Had it been from anyone else I would never have spent the time and effort to work through all the errors to discover what was actually meant. It is a major distraction for me and detracts so much from the experience.
I don't think I'm alone, either, in that - few active hubber/writers will spend the time to work through it and while writers are probably more critical of such work the same feeling is present in most people.
I don't think you realize what such a mass or errors does to most readers. I can skim a hub or article and ignore such things and they don't bother me much. Your work, on the other hand, deserves and demands a much more in depth reading and you are really hurting yourself by allowing such things to happen.
As I say, it is certainly your choice - you may obviously write however you wish. I just hate to see a real work of art wrapped in dirty newspaper and thrown in the street to fade and disappear.
I've said enough (and probably far too much) and will not belabor the point further. If I've offended you, forgive me please - it was never my intention to do so.
well...when you put it THAT way.....lol.
@Pink umbrella, I'm disappointed to see you were dismissive of this post. This is what we're ALL trying to say - Wilderness has just said it much better than any of us. So read it again, please, and take it to heart.
LOL, that's exactly what I do when I get online. Check my facebook and hubpages!
When someone points out an error, they're attacking me personally. They're telling me, "Hey, you, listen, you wrote amazing stuff and created content I would never be able to hold a candle to. If I dropped acid, I still couldn't come up with something that good. But never mind that. I am going to feel significant in the shadow of your greatness by pointing out a flaw of little to no significance. Sure, I can understand the greater meaning, and believe me, it's great! It's so great in fact that it infringes upon my reason to live. I am going to be the piece of crap hoopty Ford Pinto that rolls up next to the hydrogen fueled concept car that can fly into outer space. Then I will say, 'Hey, you didn't use your signal!!!' Because if I didn't do that, I might as well stop driving altogether. I have nothing else, nor will I ever have anything else to bring to the table. Yeah, I know it takes far more talent and energy to create something people actually want to read. But readability is important, and yeah, I know you don't want to bother with those details because they're trivial to the content, but think of those less fortunate than you. Think of those who cannot come up with any good content whatsoever. You selfish jerks. Let us have a little blood. Don't be so greedy with it and let us correct your spelling and grammar. Please. It's all we have. Otherwise we might as well not exist at all."
And so is the existential nature of the grammar Nazi. Heil.
I totally need an editor. My spelling and grammar are atrocious. We need each other. See, it's symbiotic! Right now we need intermission and a sammich.
Symbiotic and sammich in the same paragraph, love it.
Bronson, Ah, but your clever-ness and humor are perfect., and so is your ability to see that "guilt" of one kind or another can be found on both sides of this particular coin. You have my admiration.
I have to say that, in most cases, if someone points out an error to me, it's more a matter of: "Hey, look. Do you actually have the brain-time to be spending, thinking about my typing errors AND e.mailing me about them?!! Isn't there world hunger, wars, injustices that deadline, the laundry, the grocery list, the car at the mechanic's, and the cat vomit to be concerned with? " For the purpose of hoping to kind of make up for a couple of obnoxious comments I made above, I'd just like to clarify that I don't take my own writing all that seriously (even though I do care about it, up to a point, I suppose), and really can't imagine taking other people's writing that seriously (as far as errors go).
To be honest (and maybe I have some need to be this candid, after struggling with my "secret thoughts" for a long time), I look at most of my Hubs and think they're all crap. None of them are worth spinning my wheels over, so they aren't worth someone else's spinning his wheels over either. For me (as it is for a lot of people), it's spare-time writing that I do instead of doing something like crosswords puzzles or watching TV. I can only take any of it so seriously, which is why I've just spent a few hours fooling around on the forums, here, and avoiding "serious" projects that I should have been working on.
I can't be running in high-gear worry/seriousness mode in "real life" and in "work life" and then in my spare-time life too. I'm here for my own enjoyment, and I take it (and the site and its purpose) seriously up to a point. Then, though, I can't help but think, "Hey, it's the Internet. It's not the New England Journal of Medicine, and it's my own or my family's health, and it's not the water that's leaking in from the snowy roof and leaving marks on my bathroom wall.
If someone takes the time to correct you, you should consider it an honor that your work is worth fixing. Some people make so many mistakes or have such terrible content, that people simply move on or report the hub.
This is a writing site which means we are here for the quality of writing. I am more than happy for people to comment on my writing - in fact that's what I would expect from a writing site. That's what makes a writing site different.
And improving our writing skills should in the long term pay dividends - people will be more keen to read and appreciate a well-presented article.
Putting one's writing out in public is always a risk - people might object to what you write and how you write it. As writers we need also to develop rather thick skins - if someone points out an error of fact or of language they are not necessarily attacking you as a person.
HubPages is an amazing site with some truly amazing writers. I look forward to constuctive comments and help from people more experienced and knowledgeable than I am.
As with others in this thread, I take great pride in my work and have no problem with another Hubber correcting my spelling and grammar. It is of course, less embarrassing if the message comes through an e-mail though.
Even if HubPages is not being used as a money earner, I feel the content should be as free of errors as possible. Quality articles equates to a quality site bringing more readers in the long term.
well, im not talking about email, im talking about comments on your page for everyone to see. Those who may not have payed much attention to an error, who simply saw it and forgot it, now are focused on that instead of the work. It makies me sick. when all i get is a message about a typo, it makes me think the person didnt even try to enjoy, just sat there editing.
Ah, I make so many mistakes myself I'm in no position to criticise any one else's spelling. Bad spelling can be a distraction for sure but even if I was an ace speller, I wouldn't publicly correct anyone. This isn't school.
"As writers we need also to develop rather thick skins"
Well that's true Tony. Writing can be a risky business, in the emotional sense, because we'ere exposing ourselves, some more so than others...but yes, we've gotta be able to cop the criticisms. Correcting spelling in the comment box though? Nah.
What Is Wrong With Total Honesty?
Why don't you tell us honesty what you did with that now not-so-pink umbrella?
my umbrella was is and will remain pink. are you suggesting that i shove my feelings inside? there are rosier hubs for you to read, and if youve taken a look lately, you would see that im not just some angry writer. i have many sides, and refuse to hide any of them.
I agree with everything you've all said, but (and this is something I kind of struggle with) I still can only take my Internet writing "so seriously". I mean... I care about aiming to produce something of reasonably decent quality. No doubt about that. I can only care "so much", though. Get the therapist's couch ready (or something), but I struggle with the fact that I'm not at all proud of just about most of my writing on here. I suppose that's why I think, "Hey, it's junk anyway. What's an occasional typing error?" The stuff I have on here (or on the Internet in general) isn't my best writing, because I won't put my best writing on the Internet. I don't see writing online as a risk, because I don't take it all that personally. I don't care who reads what I write, and I don't care who criticizes it (as long as they do it in the comments box ). I do deeply appreciate positive comments that are genuine. There's no doubt about that.
Those, though, are kind of the only thing I take extremely seriously. Those, and any effort I make when I try to write something that might help someone who's going through a bad time.
Offline, I'm actually going through some kind of thing that's either exhaustion or else, maybe, mild depression. I've been living under a weird legal situation for so long it's been taking a toll in recent months. This is the thing, though: When someone sends someone an e.mail about something like a typo, that recipient of that e.mail may just have a lot bigger fish to fry than some typo in a Hub he wrote eight months ago.
I take the aims/purpose of HubPages seriously. I take the English language seriously. I take my earnings seriously (I'm not just here fooling around and killing time). I take my integrity seriously. I even take writing, in general, very seriously. I just can't take my own or other people's minor errors seriously. It's not as if my writing is loaded with tons and tons of typing errors and horrible grammar to the point where they're going to detract all that much from the overall quality on HubPages. Detract from an individual Hub? Sure. In the scheme of all the things that detract from this site, though, I don't think my relatively few typos-per-Hub (when there are any at all); or even some "grammar thing" I keep doing wrong, all through my writing; are the kind of thing that substantially detract from the overall quality aims of the site. In other words, I think HubPages has bigger fish to fry than my errors too.
The one thing I take pride in is this: I live under such difficult circumstances (that legal situation and some really bizarre things), I'm often so stressed out I have trouble concentrating on reading microwave instructions on packages. I muddle through with information on the Google account by barely reading whatever I absolutely have to read, and only when I'm not so stressed I can't read at all.
I don't want to come across as if I'm "some martyr or something"; but with some of the tolls stress has taken on my energy levels and concentration, I continue to do what I need to do (and some extras) in life, socialize, still be strong for my family, and still have the energy to write as much as I write - rather than do what a lot of people would do, which might be head off to get tranquilizers (or something), drink, or at least stop doing anything.
So, for me, I take that sense of personal pride in the fact that I've written as much as I have, earned as much as I have, and cared to whatever degree I have, in spite of being as "exhausted" or "depressed" or whatever it is, as I am.
Then, too, I'll come to these forums and see one or another person who is going through so much in "real" life (more than any one person should ever, ever, have to go through) that it really drives home the point that something like Internet writing just doesn't matter all that much in life.
It's hard to describe how you can care, or care-up-to-a-point; and yet only be able to care "so much". I see people on here who seem so enthusiastic and gung-ho, and the thing I've been struggling with for ages now, is that (while I don't want to come across as having a rotten attitude on a site I enjoy, respect, and appreciate; which means not wanting to just be honest about not caring as much as others do) I can't be as enthusiastic as so many others can be.
My thing with people sending e.mails about things like typos has nothing to do with my taking it personally, because I don't take too much of anything all that seriously on here, or in life (unless it has something to do with my family's health and safety). My thing with people sending e.mails is that they don't know what the recipient of those e.mails has going on in life; and they don't know how, at best, the other person will see the e.mail as "small-minded"; or how, at worst, the person may just see it as one more stupid little aggravation in a life that's full of so many bigger problems and worries.
(Get out the therapist's couch again.) With the exception of a very few of my Hubs, I'm embarrassed by most of mine. I write what I feel like writing at the time, and then I never want to see them again because they tend to make cringe. I move on to the next one, hoping it will be less cringe-producing than the ones before it (and it never is, because I'm running on 2 of my 6 or 8 cylinders). I leave them up unless having them up gets so unbearable I have to delete them. I hate that they show up under my profile, and I don't want them coming back to haunt me in the form of e.mails from people who mean well by letting me know they spotted a typo.
The thing is, I have a strong suspicion that I'm far from the only one on here who "cares, but only cares so much". It's not a reflection on HubPages or Hubbers, and it certainly doesn't reflect the fact that I'm generally a perfectionist-type in "the rest of life". I don't know... I guess I just thought it was time to bring out in the open the way some Hubbers can be conscientious, even perfectionist-type, people who generally care about their stuff on HubPages - but who can "only care so much".
This whole post is, I suppose, the result of a particularly sobering week or so, with more than the usual pieces of one kind of news or another, coming from one place or another; and making caring about some insignificant things just that much more difficult. I'll probably regret my own candor once the mood passes. The point is, I don't expect the rest of the world, or the rest of HubPages, to adjust whether or not someone sends out emails about errors,just because x percent of Hubbers may be having a bad day or a bad year. Most people having a bad day or bad year know that the rest of the world is fine and is going to do its thing accordingly.
My main reason for posting all this is mostly to point out that when some people say they "don't care" or "can only care so much", sometimes they have good reasons for it. (By the way, this isn't to say I'm wallowing in misery all the time. For the most part, all is often completely cheerful and energetic - just not as "cheerful and energetic" as things would be if some matters were ironed out and resolved. )
There's a difference between a typo and consistently bad grammar. It's easy to spot the difference.
If I type 'the' you know I know how to spell the words. If six words later, I type teh', it's obviously a typo, and not a spelling error.
I don't care about the occasional typo, although some people will. I care when my reading has to slow down because I cannot make out what is being said.
Lisa, I know it doesn't amount to much, but I'm sorry things have been rough for you.
Me too, I am sorry you are going through a tough time.
I think that is one thing about online writing - you write something and then later, sometimes months or even years later, you get some feedback. At that time, you are at a different place in your life, and have to go back and reconsider something you wrote in the past. Sometimes I get comments on hubs I had forgotten I had written, and I am reminded that I need to update it, but am too busy to do so. That is how it is with online writing. Your work is still out there, and sometimes (hopefully lots of times) people are out there reading it. It is fresh and new to them.
I find it extremely distracting to see spelling errors. I also find it irritating to have to reread something three or four times because the grammar was so bad that I couldn't make sense of it the first time.
So, let me tell you something about the human eye and grammar.
Once we've learnt to read, we never read again. What the eye does is recognise the word (without reading it) and put meaning to it based on memory. We are forced to read, however, when something is spelled incorrectly and/or the grammar doesn't follow recognized rules. That slows the reading speed down. If one is in a hurry, or if one is scanning (which a lot of people do today), it is difficult when words are spelled incorrectly or if sentence order or something else is incorrect in grammar.
The other aspect of this is that all language has a lot of error when it comes to ambiguity. English is one of those languages where word order, the placement of the comma, and various other rules, indicate meaning and prevent ambiguity. Sometimes, when these rules are not considered, the meaning can be several different things. The writer doesn't notice because the writer knows what is meant. Unfortunately, the reader doesn't.
I only correct people if I think they are starting out. If I see someone has written a substantial number of articles, I don't bother. I also just don't bother to ever come back again. If I'm having a discussion with someone and their grammar is incorrect, it messes with my comprehension of what is being said. Generally, I will ask them to explain themselves again.
And, I hate to confess this, but it is true. I have been extremely tactless in doing so, on occasion. I need to be more tactful in future.
I think some were taught at school that spelling doesn't matter, and others were taught that it does matter.
To me spelling, wording oneself clearly so that there can be no misunderstanding or ambiguity is important.
I completely agree with this post. It has to do with things like respecting the reader and reducing the likelihood of misunderstanding. I want to give the reader of whatever I write a positive and enjoyable experience. I want what I write to have some meaning in both my life and, I would hope, in the life of my reader.
Having an article which is poorly constructed, with poor grammar and many typos just to me indicates a lack of respect for the reader.
And I would really appreciate if a reader lets me know that they feel I have not respected them enough by putting up a writing of poor quality. It's no sin to make mistakes and the best of us do. So really it is very valuable to get that kind of feedback, provided it is done sincerely and politely. This isn't school and yet it is a place for us to hone our writing skills. I don't have any problem with being given feedback. It has happened to me and in most cases I accepted the feedback, in one or two cases I have felt the feedback unjusitified,and then I said so. No problem.
What does irritate me (and really I'm a very tolerant person, or so I think!) is a complete Hub WRITTEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS! For two very good reasons - firstly it is actually quite difficult to read stuff written all in upper case, and secondly it feels as though I'm being shouted at. If that's the intention, then fine, but not too many people like being shouted at!
I don't comment on anybody's grammar, spelling, or punctuation unless they ask. I'm not an English teacher, editor, or mother to anyone here so I don't think it's my place to be correcting anyone. I'm not distracted by the mistakes and sometimes even find them humorous.
Harry S. Truman once said "If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen." I think the sentiment is applicable in this situation. If you don't appreciate the feedback, quit submitting the hubs; or accept the constructive criticism in the spirit in which it's offered and brush up on your writing skills. A third option, of course, is to do nothing and keep on getting the same kind of feedback. The choice is your's.
I'm not an English fascist, can't afford to be with my level of skills, but I do make an instant judgement based on certain levels of grammar, spelling, etc. Maybe it's a class / education thing as well - if I think the writer is dumb then what's the point of reading the message?
However that's just me. And I don't buy stuff. I guess if the writing fits your audience then you have it made. Probably why my sales hubs don't work.
Well, I gotta say, if you are posting your work for others to read and comment, you can't start getting choosy about the comments you receive. I may not like a comment I get or even agree with it but unless it is just plain nasty I leave it up. It comes with asking for opinions. If you don't hear the negative, how will you ever get better? If you aren't interested in getting better, then take out the comment box or delete the comments you don't like. But until or unless you start fixing the mistakes people are pointing out, you won't stop hearing about them.
The simplest way to avoid spelling errors is by using a spell checker-there is one right there in the text capsule. Or, if you are doing as Nell said and intentionally misspelling for SEO, then ignore the comment because what difference should it make?
Moral of the story...if you post your work with errors then ask for comments, expect comments to be made about said errors.
Moral of the story...if you post your work with errors then ask for comments, expect comments to be made about said errors.
this may be the nicest way to say what your all trying to say on this forum.
most of you have mad me a little upset, and im thinking most of you are the kind of people who can not appreciate good work because you cant see past a few errors.
whats important to me is the meaning and message behind something.
ive never been criticle of errors and typos.
when i write, if i spellcheck like crazy, i end up changing my content, and later wish that i didnt.
so sue me. read my page like it is or read someone else. nothing personal, it just crawls up my leg when people seem to miss the deeper meaning just because im not the best at spelling.
@ pink umbrella.
"most of you are the kind of people who can not appreciate good work because you can't see past a few errors.'
I'm a little confused.
Let me draw you an analogy here.
A house is being built by a contractor. He has a fantastic concept in his head. He wants the bathroom to have a glass wall so that one can see the garden outside when one is taking a shower. He has a glass window where the bed is placed, so that lovers can see the stars. He has all these fantastic ideas...
Now, the thing is this. The bricks are crooked. The glass is cracked. The roof has got holes in it so that when it rains, the house floods.
So, all those looking at the house must look past the craft of how the house was built to the art of how the house was meant to be?
Well, some might.
Writing is both a craft and an art.
There has been some teaching by professors and teachers that the craft doesn't matter, i.e. spelling, grammar, structure. They teach that so long as the idea is understood, it is all that matters. They say that the idea is far more important than anything else.
The most difficult part of any art is the craft. It takes skill, experience, talent, etc. to produce that art.
Ideas are two a penny. Everybody has ideas. It is expressing that idea in a way that everybody understands and admires that is the true soul of any art.
Without the excellence in the craft that lies behind the art, the art isn't, well, art.
Now, granted this is my opinion.
What I would like to know is why you think you are presenting good work? What are your criteria?
Very well stated! Very nice analogy. I think ideas are a little bit more expensive in the US, though. Here we say ideas are "a dime a dozen"! LOL Of course, I'm not checking the current conversion rate, so I could have it completely backwards.
me having a few errors in my hubs hardly compares to a jacked up house.
and by the way, the idea that the idea is not more important than everything else is your opinion my dear.
and are you saying that im not presenting good work? although that would sadden me as a writer, that is also YOUR opinion.
what do you have going on that is so great? whatever it is im sure is clean of error.
I took time out to draw up an analogy for you. It was supposed to explain to you why people wouldn't look beyond the tools you use to the ideas you are trying to present. If you didn't get it, I'm obviously not very good at what I do.
You didn't answer my question as to why you thought your work was good.
You asked me what I had going on in my life that was so great? I never made any claims. You, however, did. You said that none of us recognized your good work.
However, for the record, Sophia Angelique is not my professional name.
a) I have been published for half a century - since I was nine years old
b) I have and do work professionally as an editor and a writer
c) I have worked for two British publishing houses as an editor and they don't hire one unless one can edit and write at a professional level.
d) I have ghostwritten books, edited books, have a credit as a script supervisor for an Indie movie that won some recogntion.
e) I have been hired by publishers to write short stories (sci fi).
f) My writing has won prizes.
g) I have received many, many compliments through the years from well established authors, publishers, etc.
10) Hired on two occasionals by a nation wide celebirty magazine to interview internationally famous stars.
Perhaps, the fact that the presentation of an idea is a lot more difficult than getting the idea is only my opinion. Then, again, it is an opinion shared by the people who do the buying.
For instance, did you know that 99% of scripts presented in Hollywood are not read beyond the first page? Why? Because they have grammatical errors. Did you know that when books arrive at agents or book publishers, they are not read if they have grammatical and spelling erros on the first page? Did you know that the editor of a magazine will not read beyond the first paragraph of an article if there are spelling errors and grammatical inconsistencies?
From the sound of things, nobody has ever explained this to you, and you truly are under the impression that your work only has a few errors.
I'm sorry if that is what you think. Your work has a lot of errors - not just a few. If you are serious about your writing, you are going to have to go back to school to learn grammar. If you are truly serious about your writing, you will do that because you want to succeed at your writing.
If, on the other hand, you just want to believe that none of us know what we are talking about, and we're all just little ego maniac idiots, I feel sad.
All those wonderful ideas that you have are left without breath, because the instruments to make them breathe, have been left undeveloped.
This is my last post.
But that's the point, pink umbrella. Most of us would read past the occasional typo - but when there's error after error, it's so distracting you can't "see past them" to the deeper meaning. Especially because most of us are writers, and English is our job.
Look at all these posts - every one of us is telling you the same thing. If you want to reach an audience, you have to write clearly. Throw a bunch of badly spelled words on the page, and people will just get irritated and stop reading.
You're welcome to ignore us, keep writing as you are, and see how you get on. Set your Comments box so you have to approve all comments.
im not "throwing words on a page." but thanx for that. So wow, i didnt have any idea id get attacked because of spelling errors, or the fact that im sick of people makeing comments about mine more important that reading my actual hubs. Not all of my hubs are so filled with errors that they are unreadable.
The problem with too many spelling/grammatical errors is that they can become so distracting that readers focus only on them, not the topic at all.
It's sort of like sub-titles in film, if you're reading them, you often miss subtleties of the movie.
I have been corrected several times. Hubbers will read my work and be kind enough to take time out of their day to send me a private message and tell me what I missed. This is much appreciated because I will often finish a hub up late in the night, proofread it (or my husband will if still awake) and then publish it before bedtime. Still I miss stuff. One example is that I had a word misspelled on my profile for 4 months before someone caught it. My spell checker oked it too. I always look to improve.
I only read the first page, so please forgive me if this has gone in another direction.
I find it very difficult to look past any error because it is my day job to copy edit material. If I stumble too often I give up. But in reality, I am only annoyed when grammatical errors, and sometimes word choice or punctuation, make it impossible for me to discern the writer's intent.
In 7 weeks on HubPages there have been only two occasions that I have written to correct an author, and both times it was because whole paragraphs were inadvertently copied twice from the word processor into capsules. One of those has a hubber score of 100, so it can happen to anyone.
If something is so bad I can't understand it, I move on. If I'm hubhopping, I simply rate it down or flag it.
Forums are supposed to be fun, it doesn't have to be a technical writing 101 class, hahaha.
Why don't you just write what you want the way you want to write it. It clearly doesn't matter to you what anybody else thinks, so just do what you want and don't complain about the feedback you get.
Here are two more thoughts to consider, t-p-u-:
One = You wrote:
Most of the people who have posted here actually have been answering your original question - they have simply been answering "No"; that is to say, "No, they are not tired of being corrected."
That was "the meaning and message behind" their posts - the part that you said is important to you. Maybe some readers in this forum (even you?) missed "the deeper meaning" of those responses because something else got in the way of their understanding.
So, in the same way that the specific slant of their answers may have gotten in the way of your understanding of the answers (the short form being simply "No"), there are things in your writing that may get in the way of other readers understanding "the deeper meaning" in it.
And, if you have become somewhat irritated to have to wade through these forum posts to get at the deeper meaning of the answers, maybe that could help you see that other readers might feel somewhat frustrated or irritated to have to wade through something in order to get at the deeper meaning of your writing.
Consider the possibility that a suggestion for improvement is actually one way a reader has of saying that your writing is worthwhile or that your writing is worth sharing with a wider audience.
If the reader doesn't think it is worth correcting for a wider readership, then they would most likely simply rate it down or flag it and move on.
In one respect, a comment that suggests an improvement is a form of a compliment.
At least you know that people are taking the time to read your hubs and are interested enough to comment upon them. Having hubs ignored is much more disheartening, and is more likely to lead to a lack of interest in writing. Having your mistakes corrected offers you a chance to improve your writing.
Sometimes, when we are reading our own work, it is hard to spot mistakes, because we read what we expect to be there. Only today, I re-read one of my hubs, which I have read and checked hundreds of times, yet saw an obvious spelling mistake, which I had never noticed before. Thankfully, my hubs do not get much traffic, so my mistake had not been commented upon, so hopefully had not been noticed.
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
I wish people would make me aware of my mistakes. I often look over my Hubs, months after publishing, and spot some of the most embarrassing errors of spelling and punctuation that I'd completely over-looked.
Glad we now have the spell checker.
I suspect here that OP did not expect quite such a strong reaction from 'the masses' and has reverted to 'The best form of defence is attack' strategy. Like many people, criticism is not always welcomed, and it is easier to argue back than admit others may have a good point. What I really struggled to understand was OP's stance that:
"if i spellcheck like crazy, i end up changing my content, and later wish that i didnt."
Surely by spelling correctly the meaning does not change, it merely appears that the statement is more valid as it came from an educated person!
It is a shame that a potentially very good writer could find their work lost in the 'fog' due to being too stubborn to listen to people who do know what they are talking about, and who are giving excellent advice.
In my opinion if you have asked for someone's advice, fair enough, point out their mistakes. However, if your advice has not been asked for, then just read the hub and enjoy the content. Don't be so arrogant to think that your advice is needed, or is that important, it is very condescending.
That may be your opinion, but it's not mine.
If you spot a problem with one of my hubs, I want to know. If you want to do it publicly or privately, I don't care: either way is fine with me.
Even if you are an obnoxious sort who wants to comment on my intelligence while correcting my error, I still want to know.
I don't take offence when someone points out an error in my hubs, I appreciate it. Most people are trying to help not to show they are better than you are.
I'm amused by the number of people when told they have an error always say "I meant to do that"
People should correct others. If you are offended by it, stop publishing on the internet.
What goes on the internet has an effect on all society. Young people absorb what they read. If they constantly see mistakes it will counter what they are taught is proper. Essentially, because you cannot take criticism, you think it is okay to dumb down society.
Just because anybody can write Hubs, does not mean anybody should. If you want people to take you seriously as a writer, expect people to point out mistakes.
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